@DV: Maybe don't claim the jailer yet. Let's talk this out.
Unless the Jailer is a lie, DV? If that's the case, then we probably have a doctor that prevented the kill. But DV needs to come clean about whether he really got jailed.
Unvote Vote Scarbo
I just realized that you claimed to have proof that there was no Jailer, but that would only work if you actually blocked someone last night. If you didn't as you claim, then a jailer has to exist and DV has to have been the target from your perspective.
I'm on board for a Jailer claim. Either it's real and we have better information that will make it more likely to lynch scum, or it's fake and they (very obviously) won't be able to keep up the facade.
Trading a potential town PR to solve the game is worth it here, because even I've lost track of what's happening or what's relevant anymore.
Plus, this discussion of scum!Jailer or town!Jailer or no Jailer is irritating and going around in circles.
I'm kind of over speculating about why the NK is missing in a closed setup, because there are too many potential variables in play.
shadow, I think scarbo is assuming that his own role means that there is no Jailer. Because two town Roleblockers is very unlikely.
Him claiming without having taken a Night action absolutely sucks though.
His claiming without using his action means that his "proof" is pure setup speculation. Do you think that a jailer claim is really the best option if we know that something other than him was at play last night?
Oh, and Mete0r. I'm not afraid of being lynched in general, I am afraid of being lynched near EOD because we run out of time and I have the most votes, so people might as well off me to avoid a No Lynch.
Which is why I'd rather get run up early so I actually have time swing the lynch.
Last minute lynches that you can do nothing about are awful.
shadow, I think scarbo is assuming that his own role means that there is no Jailer. Because two town Roleblockers is very unlikely.
Him claiming without having taken a Night action absolutely sucks though.
His claiming without using his action means that his "proof" is pure setup speculation. Do you think that a jailer claim is really the best option if we know that something other than him was at play last night?
I think the Jailer claim is good because then we can finally move on from it and let gameflow dictate their alignment. But that's a selfish reason.
The best route to take is to let the Jailer claim to someone they trust. Either the entire scumteam has to fakeclaim being jailed to avoid blowing their gambit, or the Jailer is real. This is easily avoided by encouraging the Jailer to target a consensus townread.
And if the Jailer ever claims to be blocked, that creates a dichotomy and we can definitely lynch scarbo.
Whether the Jailer exists at all is what we're aiming to solve here. Their alignment is a more difficult matter.
That we'll have to guess based on their reads, how they used their role, how they've played in general, and so on.
Regardless of alignment, if the Jailer exists at all, I think it clears DV. Unless they thought DV was likely to get vigged, which I highly doubt since he was a major factor in killing zomg.
And if the Jailer is scum, then they are bluffing about their one-shot kill. Mafia with extra kills is a gross mechanic.
So either Scarbo is lying, or we have a town roleblocker and town jailer, if we want D_V to be town? Because I doubt those odds, I'm wondering if D_V was attempting to out doctor/rb? I'm having a hard time believing D_V was both the kill and protected by the jailer.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think I need to step away from the game because I'm just getting really frustrated with a lot of you.
I said I had proof there was no jailer. My proof is my role. Then I said it was possible but highly unlikely. I don't think so.
So why no kill? Simplest explanation seems to be that scum ran a gambit and DV claimed to be jailed for the wifom. It's a stupid gambit, but apparently it's working. Lynch Vaimes or DV. I really don't give a *****.
Whether the Jailer exists at all is what we're aiming to solve here. Their alignment is a more difficult matter.
That we'll have to guess based on their reads, how they used their role, how they've played in general, and so on.
Regardless of alignment, if the Jailer exists at all, I think it clears DV. Unless they thought DV was likely to get vigged, which I highly doubt since he was a major factor in killing zomg.
And if the Jailer is scum, then they are bluffing about their one-shot kill. Mafia with extra kills is a gross mechanic.
I'm really tired of people saying d_v helped lynch zomg yesterday. He did not. Zomg was up for lynch already when he threw a huge wrench in the cogs.
If anything he caused wifom.
I am starting to thing scumteam is pushing this to townclear d_v.
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I think I need to step away from the game because I'm just getting really frustrated with a lot of you.
I said I had proof there was no jailer. My proof is my role. Then I said it was possible but highly unlikely. I don't think so.
So why no kill? Simplest explanation seems to be that scum ran a gambit and DV claimed to be jailed for the wifom. It's a stupid gambit, but apparently it's working. Lynch Vaimes or DV. I really don't give a *****.
That or we simply have a doc. Or scum has a jailer and D_V is town.
Weren't you saying earlier that you thought D_V was town and pulling yet another gambit?
A breadcrumb is where a power role will make reference to their ability in some obscure way so as to be able to point back to it later in the game and say "See? I breadcrumbed (told you by leaving a small trail of clues) that I was the [insert power role] way back in the beginning."
I think I need to step away from the game because I'm just getting really frustrated with a lot of you.
I said I had proof there was no jailer. My proof is my role. Then I said it was possible but highly unlikely. I don't think so.
So why no kill? Simplest explanation seems to be that scum ran a gambit and DV claimed to be jailed for the wifom. It's a stupid gambit, but apparently it's working. Lynch Vaimes or DV. I really don't give a *****.
This defeatism really surprises me. Your claim surprised me a bit, given that you didn't roleblock last Night, but the defeatism is...frustrating. Come back and talk it out.
I'm really tired of people saying d_v helped lynch zomg yesterday. He did not. Zomg was up for lynch already when he threw a huge wrench in the cogs.
If anything he caused wifom.
I agree, but as I review, I'm not entirely sure that he did so maliciously. I 100% disagree that he started the Zomg lynch, and I still feel like he is (or was) trying to take credit for that, but his counterarguments to me seem focused on him believing that he pushed the Zomg lynch to completion, which is much more debatable. I personally feel like the Zomg lynch would have still happened, but DV's correctly pointed out that multiple people used the counter-name-claim situation as motivation to vote Zomg, so...I guess we'll never know for sure if Zomg would have been lynched anyway or not. For now, I'm more focused on whether he's lying about the jailer. If he's not, a big part of me wants to know who the jailer is because it seems very unlikely that we have a roleblocker and a jailer that are both town. But then I'm faced with the lack of nightkill and Scarbo not using his ability last Night. Argh.
That or we simply have a doc. Or scum has a jailer and D_V is town.
Weren't you saying earlier that you thought D_V was town and pulling yet another gambit?
Yeah, but if we have a doc, then the likelihood of all three being town is WAAAAAAAAY low, right? In that case, the jailer is the most likely to be scum because of game design.
I think I need to step away from the game because I'm just getting really frustrated with a lot of you.
I said I had proof there was no jailer. My proof is my role. Then I said it was possible but highly unlikely. I don't think so.
So why no kill? Simplest explanation seems to be that scum ran a gambit and DV claimed to be jailed for the wifom. It's a stupid gambit, but apparently it's working. Lynch Vaimes or DV. I really don't give a *****.
That or we simply have a doc. Or scum has a jailer and D_V is town.
Weren't you saying earlier that you thought D_V was town and pulling yet another gambit?
I was. But it just doesn't add up.
Iso, why the literal **** would we lynch me if no jailer claims? A jailer claiming would a soft cc to me.
If claim, lynch Jailer if they're one of my scum reads.
If not, lynch scarbo.
Easy.
Why do we have to lynch if they are one if YOUR scum reads?
That's a stupid question.
-
@Cantrip: Your question isn't much better, but I'll at least dignify you with an answer. If scarbo is truthful about being a Town Roleblocker, it's extremely unlikely that D_V's Jailer is town. If there is no Jailer claim, the Jailer is scum, and D_V is lying, but we can't know that without a scarbo flip. I'm less inclined to lynch D_V than scarbo at this point due to scarbo's approach to the Vaimes wagon, and if the Jailer is one of my other scum reads, I'd much rather lynch one of them over scarbo because literally the only stuff I've read that scarbo has posted has come from these last two pages.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why do we have to lynch if they are one if YOUR scum reads?
That's a stupid question.[/quote]I didn't think it was a stupid question. Can you explain to me why it was a stupid question?
Quote from Iso »
@Cantrip: Your question isn't much better, but I'll at least dignify you with an answer. If scarbo is truthful about being a Town Roleblocker, it's extremely unlikely that D_V's Jailer is town. If there is no Jailer claim, the Jailer is scum, and D_V is lying, but we can't know that without a scarbo flip. I'm less inclined to lynch D_V than scarbo at this point due to scarbo's approach to the Vaimes wagon, and if the Jailer is one of my other scum reads, I'd much rather lynch one of them over scarbo because literally the only stuff I've read that scarbo has posted has come from these last two pages.
1. Regarding the bolded:
1a. Why is the jailer scum if there is no claim, as opposed to there not being a jailer?
1b. Why is DV lying if there is no jailer claim?
1c. DV said that the jailer revealed himself in the chat; in what world (other than DV lying) does a jailer think they can get away with not claiming?
2. What does a Scarbo flip confirm, exactly? He comes up town roleblocker, what does that prove regarding DV and/or the jailer?
3. Your condescension is bad and you should feel bad.
Wait...Scum knows that they are or not roleblocked, right?
So if scum proposed a vote and force the actual rber out, knowing that he would say that he didn't rb, that would out the power role and lead town into a series of mislynches and scum wins.
Ghostling and D_V might have set this up altogether. D_V lies about being jailed, Ghostling propose to find out who the roleblocker is.
Wait...Scum knows that they are or not roleblocked, right?
So if scum proposed a vote and force the actual rber out, knowing that he would say that he didn't rb, that would out the power role and lead town into a series of mislynches and scum wins.
Ghostling and D_V might have set this up altogether. D_V lies about being jailed, Ghostling propose to find out who the roleblocker is.
Perfect scum co-op there.
Vote Ghostling
Well...ok...but at some point people are going to question why only DV got jailed and no one else did for the entire game. That's not the kind of lie that can be maintained to endgame.
And roleblocker, while potentially powerful in town hands, is a double-edged sword. If the roleblocker scumreads town or townreads all the scum, then the roleblocker can end up helping the scum. So it's not a role that the mafia would normally try to flush out. Cop, yes, roleblocker, no. In fact, town roleblockers aren't a standard role, so how would scum know to set up the flush in the first place? Just...no, this doesn't work at all.
Answer my question: why did you suggest we should lynch Scarbo?
Oh, you're saying that one of them got roleblocked N1 and cooked this plan up? They likely wouldn't have found out that they were roleblocked until end of Night (which is when scumchat usually closes, so they wouldn't have been able to talk privately after they found out). The jailing is different, as DV is saying that he was informed before the end of N1 that he was jailed, with enough time for him and the jailer to converse. And, again, being one scum down, trading a lying DV for a roleblocker would be a bad trade for them.
Eh, I don't see anything in the rules, but daychat is fairly rare in my experience. And point still stands: that's a lot of effort and risk for such a small payoff. Plus, I think a town roleblocker in that situation claims start of D2 and says "I blocked [player] and we didn't have a kill; seems like a good place to start."
Wait, do we know that the scum don't have daychat?
Its a normal I'd heavily doubt it. And we removed our posting problems as long as you post actual content and not spam and you are posting good content so don't worry.
Just came in and saw that Ophidia vote, and I can't help but agree with Vaimes. Not only that but there definitely seems in general to be a very tangible rushedness right now, look back at my wagon and see how it came about and how weirdly the people who are on it came on it. About to post some more as I read more, but that post just felt so unlike Ophidia the rest of the game that I had to comment lol.
I kinda feel like I lost my direction. What should I do at this point in the game?
First, answer this question:
Why did you vote Scarbo in 1193? Be explicit in your response.
Then you could do several things. You could reread the entire game and take notes on each player as to what seems towny or scummy (which, while it sounds daunting, can be very eye-opening sometimes). You could do the same thing with just D2 content. You could ask people questions instead of just tinfoiling and knee-jerk voting them. If you're scum, of course, you'll want to do the same, but with a nefarious slant. Or pretend to act confused.
I kinda feel like I lost my direction. What should I do at this point in the game?
First, answer this question:
Why did you vote Scarbo in 1193? Be explicit in your response.
Then you could do several things. You could reread the entire game and take notes on each player as to what seems towny or scummy (which, while it sounds daunting, can be very eye-opening sometimes). You could do the same thing with just D2 content. You could ask people questions instead of just tinfoiling and knee-jerk voting them. If you're scum, of course, you'll want to do the same, but with a nefarious slant. Or pretend to act confused.
But I don't think you're scum.
I voted scarbo because of my impression of him and his posts in game. And the claim as well. He just sounds opportunistic to me. He can claim roleblocker when there is a doctor and confuse the town with the claim.
I voted scarbo because of my impression of him and his posts in game. And the claim as well. He just sounds opportunistic to me. He can claim roleblocker when there is a doctor and confuse the town with the claim.
How does him claiming roleblocker and saying he didn't use his ability confuse the town? His lack of action means things would be the same as if we had no roleblocker, so it's not like it makes us wonder any more than previously -- it lets us know actually that the kill wasn't roleblocked, so it clarifies some things.
That is an impressive level of not paying attention to the game, and it kind of ruins the whole "what happened to the NK" speculation.
@DV: Maybe don't claim the jailer yet. Let's talk this out.
Unless the Jailer is a lie, DV? If that's the case, then we probably have a doctor that prevented the kill. But DV needs to come clean about whether he really got jailed.
I just realized that you claimed to have proof that there was no Jailer, but that would only work if you actually blocked someone last night. If you didn't as you claim, then a jailer has to exist and DV has to have been the target from your perspective.
I'm on board for a Jailer claim. Either it's real and we have better information that will make it more likely to lynch scum, or it's fake and they (very obviously) won't be able to keep up the facade.
Trading a potential town PR to solve the game is worth it here, because even I've lost track of what's happening or what's relevant anymore.
Plus, this discussion of scum!Jailer or town!Jailer or no Jailer is irritating and going around in circles.
I'm kind of over speculating about why the NK is missing in a closed setup, because there are too many potential variables in play.
Him claiming without having taken a Night action absolutely sucks though.
His claiming without using his action means that his "proof" is pure setup speculation. Do you think that a jailer claim is really the best option if we know that something other than him was at play last night?
Which is why I'd rather get run up early so I actually have time swing the lynch.
Last minute lynches that you can do nothing about are awful.
The best route to take is to let the Jailer claim to someone they trust. Either the entire scumteam has to fakeclaim being jailed to avoid blowing their gambit, or the Jailer is real. This is easily avoided by encouraging the Jailer to target a consensus townread.
And if the Jailer ever claims to be blocked, that creates a dichotomy and we can definitely lynch scarbo.
That we'll have to guess based on their reads, how they used their role, how they've played in general, and so on.
Regardless of alignment, if the Jailer exists at all, I think it clears DV. Unless they thought DV was likely to get vigged, which I highly doubt since he was a major factor in killing zomg.
And if the Jailer is scum, then they are bluffing about their one-shot kill. Mafia with extra kills is a gross mechanic.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
If no claim, lynch scarbo.
If claim, lynch Jailer if they're one of my scum reads.
If not, lynch scarbo.
Easy.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Have you actually read the game yet?
Why do we have to lynch if they are one if YOUR scum reads?
Just kill him. Iso should also post his promised notes soon.
I said I had proof there was no jailer. My proof is my role. Then I said it was possible but highly unlikely. I don't think so.
So why no kill? Simplest explanation seems to be that scum ran a gambit and DV claimed to be jailed for the wifom. It's a stupid gambit, but apparently it's working. Lynch Vaimes or DV. I really don't give a *****.
I'm really tired of people saying d_v helped lynch zomg yesterday. He did not. Zomg was up for lynch already when he threw a huge wrench in the cogs.
If anything he caused wifom.
I am starting to thing scumteam is pushing this to townclear d_v.
That or we simply have a doc. Or scum has a jailer and D_V is town.
Weren't you saying earlier that you thought D_V was town and pulling yet another gambit?
...why? Seriously, what is your logic here?
A breadcrumb is where a power role will make reference to their ability in some obscure way so as to be able to point back to it later in the game and say "See? I breadcrumbed (told you by leaving a small trail of clues) that I was the [insert power role] way back in the beginning."
This defeatism really surprises me. Your claim surprised me a bit, given that you didn't roleblock last Night, but the defeatism is...frustrating. Come back and talk it out.
I agree, but as I review, I'm not entirely sure that he did so maliciously. I 100% disagree that he started the Zomg lynch, and I still feel like he is (or was) trying to take credit for that, but his counterarguments to me seem focused on him believing that he pushed the Zomg lynch to completion, which is much more debatable. I personally feel like the Zomg lynch would have still happened, but DV's correctly pointed out that multiple people used the counter-name-claim situation as motivation to vote Zomg, so...I guess we'll never know for sure if Zomg would have been lynched anyway or not. For now, I'm more focused on whether he's lying about the jailer. If he's not, a big part of me wants to know who the jailer is because it seems very unlikely that we have a roleblocker and a jailer that are both town. But then I'm faced with the lack of nightkill and Scarbo not using his ability last Night. Argh.
Yeah, but if we have a doc, then the likelihood of all three being town is WAAAAAAAAY low, right? In that case, the jailer is the most likely to be scum because of game design.
I was. But it just doesn't add up.
Iso, why the literal **** would we lynch me if no jailer claims? A jailer claiming would a soft cc to me.
The first four pages!
That's a stupid question.
-
@Cantrip: Your question isn't much better, but I'll at least dignify you with an answer. If scarbo is truthful about being a Town Roleblocker, it's extremely unlikely that D_V's Jailer is town. If there is no Jailer claim, the Jailer is scum, and D_V is lying, but we can't know that without a scarbo flip. I'm less inclined to lynch D_V than scarbo at this point due to scarbo's approach to the Vaimes wagon, and if the Jailer is one of my other scum reads, I'd much rather lynch one of them over scarbo because literally the only stuff I've read that scarbo has posted has come from these last two pages.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
...
D_v couldnt have been the nk..
D_v are you the ******* jailer?
unvote
Iso you are a stuoid question. Your scum reads are based off of a lot of the game being unread. So forgive me if i don't like em.
Is this game for real right now.
And Yes I was really jailed.
That's a stupid question.[/quote]I didn't think it was a stupid question. Can you explain to me why it was a stupid question?
1. Regarding the bolded:
1a. Why is the jailer scum if there is no claim, as opposed to there not being a jailer?
1b. Why is DV lying if there is no jailer claim?
1c. DV said that the jailer revealed himself in the chat; in what world (other than DV lying) does a jailer think they can get away with not claiming?
2. What does a Scarbo flip confirm, exactly? He comes up town roleblocker, what does that prove regarding DV and/or the jailer?
3. Your condescension is bad and you should feel bad.
Why not?
This. And DV wouldn't be claiming to be his own target.
So if scum proposed a vote and force the actual rber out, knowing that he would say that he didn't rb, that would out the power role and lead town into a series of mislynches and scum wins.
Ghostling and D_V might have set this up altogether. D_V lies about being jailed, Ghostling propose to find out who the roleblocker is.
Perfect scum co-op there.
Vote Ghostling
And roleblocker, while potentially powerful in town hands, is a double-edged sword. If the roleblocker scumreads town or townreads all the scum, then the roleblocker can end up helping the scum. So it's not a role that the mafia would normally try to flush out. Cop, yes, roleblocker, no. In fact, town roleblockers aren't a standard role, so how would scum know to set up the flush in the first place? Just...no, this doesn't work at all.
Answer my question: why did you suggest we should lynch Scarbo?
PLUS Scarbo says he didn't use his ability.
Ok, I'm going to stop quadruple posting now...
Its a normal I'd heavily doubt it. And we removed our posting problems as long as you post actual content and not spam and you are posting good content so don't worry.
I need to reread again.
Content: I am townreading Cantrip.
Man I really need to reread and get my reads in order. I only have one class on Fridays and no work, so my V/LA will end then and I can get to work.
But the VT claim + Rod more or less confirming it is something I have a hard time getting over?
Reminder to myself to cross-check his posting with past games.
Most of what hes saying though for the most part doesn't even make sense.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I kinda feel like I lost my direction. What should I do at this point in the game?
Why did you feel the need to defend Oph? Have you defended any other players this game?
Oph, can you explain the transition from scarbo (vote in the quote above) to me?
Tell us if you're scum?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
So yeah, Unvote
Why did you vote Scarbo in 1193? Be explicit in your response.
Then you could do several things. You could reread the entire game and take notes on each player as to what seems towny or scummy (which, while it sounds daunting, can be very eye-opening sometimes). You could do the same thing with just D2 content. You could ask people questions instead of just tinfoiling and knee-jerk voting them. If you're scum, of course, you'll want to do the same, but with a nefarious slant. Or pretend to act confused.
But I don't think you're scum.
I voted scarbo because of my impression of him and his posts in game. And the claim as well. He just sounds opportunistic to me. He can claim roleblocker when there is a doctor and confuse the town with the claim.
1. I think he's town.
2. Yes, people that I think are town that get scum read for bad reasons (Rodemy early day 1, DV, Vaimes, to name a few others)
How does him claiming roleblocker and saying he didn't use his ability confuse the town? His lack of action means things would be the same as if we had no roleblocker, so it's not like it makes us wonder any more than previously -- it lets us know actually that the kill wasn't roleblocked, so it clarifies some things.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Thank you for clarifying, just couldn't remember off the top of my head so wanted to check.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Ugh, posts like this make me wonder if you're really scum. Why do you have to be so polite!
I try to be polite as any alignment so it's really not a tell either way, sorry!
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1