Again, "safest play" because you are worried I'll turn on the town despite all of the work I've put into showing that I'm supporting the town? Like, it's technically a nonzero possibility, but your characterization of me makes it seem like I've been trying to work against the town for most of the game.
Huh, thought I'd replaced my vote on Manders when toDay started. I'm still of the opinion that Manders is the way to go with today's lynch, no-one else fits in my view of the game. If Manders isn't scum then I hope that I've been taken out by the NK because I'm lost in that situation. Cyan mentioned having doubts about Megs but I can't see it, unless Cyth and Megs are working together for a scum/neutral victory. Tammy has been very transparent in her scumhunting and Axel being scum with Wildfire makes no sense.
Like I'd expect you to be making a slightly different post than the one you just made.
It absolutely matters because if Scum shoots and I targeted them with my block, the Town wins, which means Cythare would win, too, since he survived (if his claim is what he's claimed, ofc.)
What ability are you talking about using Manders? The one that removes someone's ability to kill permanently? This is not a "role-block" though, right? And it costs 5 empower which you do not currently have? How would you even get to 5 empower for tonight?
I am definitely missing something here.
Yes, I'm talking about using my block. Yes, it is not a role-block, only a kill-block. It does cost 5 empowerment, and I have none.
The only way for her to get to 5 empower and also have me motivate her if she doesn't have any empowerment is for everyone else to empower her and for her to empower me, since there are 6 of us remaining.
Manders: I claimed across Days and several posts, so I'll just reclaim now:
I have two abilities.
For one empowerment, at Night, I can remove a player's ability to empower the next Day.
At 5 empowerment, I can target a player and remove their ability to kill. If this results in the Mafia being unable to kill, I win the game. I did confirm with Azrael this would mean the Town wins the game, not just me. This includes the Mafia NK.
So before it's a permanent removal of kill that can result in winning the game if you happened to target the last mafia.
Now it's a kill-block, and no mention of that win-the-game bit.
What's the deal?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Like I'd expect you to be making a slightly different post than the one you just made.
It absolutely matters because if Scum shoots and I targeted them with my block, the Town wins, which means Cythare would win, too, since he survived (if his claim is what he's claimed, ofc.)
I want you to read this, then read what you just wrote, and tell me how the two statements happen to line up.
"a win for the town" sure but then why would Cythare be winning etc. You are clearly talking about a game-ending scenario here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Like I'd expect you to be making a slightly different post than the one you just made.
It absolutely matters because if Scum shoots and I targeted them with my block, the Town wins, which means Cythare would win, too, since he survived (if his claim is what he's claimed, ofc.)
I want you to read this, then read what you just wrote, and tell me how the two statements happen to line up.
"a win for the town" sure but then why would Cythare be winning etc. You are clearly talking about a game-ending scenario here.
Because I'm specifically talking about if the Scum shoot. If they do and I targeted them, they will be blocked, the Town will win and, since Cythare would be alive, he, too, would win IF he's telling the truth.
If the Scum do not fire, it's just a win (lower case, as in A GOOD THING) for the Town because Scum wouldn't have killed anyone regardless of whether I targeted the right person or not.
I'm mobile, so anything else will have to wait, but Unvote for now.
Seppel, my second ability permanently removes a target players' ability to kill.
Told you it was pretty sweet. Too bad I'm as good as dead now.
(next post clarified that this applied to the mafia's kill).
I mean, people forget what they have said (it happened with DOTA today too) so i'm just interested to hear the explanation.
This is some more of you arguing semantics. Anyone I target will be blocked from killing anyone for the rest of the game. It doesn't matter if I call it "removing their kill" or "blocking their kill" as they amount to the same ******* thing.
I'm not arguing semantics. I'm not taking issue with the difference between the words "block" and "prevent." My issue is that you seemed to have originally claimed that this was a permanent removal of a player's ability to kill, and that if the scum team were no longer able to kill, the town would win.
That's fine, but then I don't understand what the difference between the scum shooting or not shooting Tonight is. If you target them, it should result in a win no matter what, right? Even if they no-kill Tonight they would be affected by your ability, which is (as you previously told us) a permanent loss of the ability to kill. So, why should it matter if they attempt to kill Tonight?
I'm not arguing semantics. I'm not taking issue with the difference between the words "block" and "prevent." My issue is that you seemed to have originally claimed that this was a permanent removal of a player's ability to kill, and that if the scum team were no longer able to kill, the town would win.
That's fine, but then I don't understand what the difference between the scum shooting or not shooting Tonight is. If you target them, it should result in a win no matter what, right? Even if they no-kill Tonight they would be affected by your ability, which is (as you previously told us) a permanent loss of the ability to kill. So, why should it matter if they attempt to kill Tonight?
So what are you claiming then? I thought it permanently removed their ability to kill. That should happen regardless of whether or not they actually do attempt a kill. Correct or incorrect?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Again, "safest play" because you are worried I'll turn on the town despite all of the work I've put into showing that I'm supporting the town? Like, it's technically a nonzero possibility, but your characterization of me makes it seem like I've been trying to work against the town for most of the game.
Well, what I think is that what you've claimed to have done makes no sense. So it's easier for me to imagine that you're lying about some part of it, such as the part where you claim to have redirected WF to yourself N1. WF could have easily just given it to you straight up. And that would mean you're currently sitting on more empower than we think you have. I haven't said you've been "working against the Town" the entire game. You'd probably be an easier lynch subject if that were the case. I'm saying you definitely haven't done everything you could have done, based on what you claimed.
how does cythatrre knowingly align with scum in a "2v2" scenario?
If he's guessed who it is? If he's got enough empower to do another daykill he can literally shoot anyone and win from that spot. He also doesn't have to do anything at all, frankly, since the Town can't get a lynch without him under those circumstances. He's pretty much then guaranteed to win, yes? I don't feel good about any of that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ok, so let's say that I'm scum and my buddy Wildfire just flipped scum yesterday. Megiddo shared his suspicion of me in basically his first message last Night. Basically no one else did, or at least was going to be after Wildfire's flip. Why not just kill Megiddo and keep playing along as town instead of doing what I did today? It's high-risk, low-reward, and I wouldn't have needed to answer for nearly any of the things that you questioned me about.
Ok, so let's say that I'm scum and my buddy Wildfire just flipped scum yesterday. Megiddo shared his suspicion of me in basically his first message last Night. Basically no one else did, or at least was going to be after Wildfire's flip. Why not just kill Megiddo and keep playing along as town instead of doing what I did today? It's high-risk, low-reward, and I wouldn't have needed to answer for nearly any of the things that you questioned me about.
Meg might have a better read on this, but my suspicion was that, after WF flipped scum, and with my claim, you might have been concerned that the "town" wouldn't believe that both these killing roles could be Town, and decided to claim Neutral to try and head off that suspicion. Didn't you (someone) say that Meg came flat out and asked if you were really "neutral". So maybe you thought you should run with that?
I don't know. It's not what I'd have done, but apparently no one sees things like I see them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I am not likely to be around at 6:00 this evening. I am likely to be in my car. I'm probably leaving where I am a bit after 5:00, but I won't be home until after 6:00. So this is almost it for me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Oh, and I'll point out for the doubters still that, given Cyth. has claimed Neutral, for me to be scum it would mean the scum would have had two roles with extra-kills and there was a "neutral" killing role, and the town had none this game. But Cyth. who is "trying to help the Town and not at all simply trying to save his own skin" is voting for me like he believes that was really the configuration here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
So what are you claiming then? I thought it permanently removed their ability to kill. That should happen regardless of whether or not they actually do attempt a kill. Correct or incorrect?
You are either over-thinking this or are a complete moron. FYI I believe it is the former.
Yes, it permanently removes their ability to kill.
HOWEVER, we only win if my ability actively stops Mafia from performing the NK, so they have to take the shot and have it fail for Town to win due to my ability.
Ok, so let's say that I'm scum and my buddy Wildfire just flipped scum yesterday. Megiddo shared his suspicion of me in basically his first message last Night. Basically no one else did, or at least was going to be after Wildfire's flip. Why not just kill Megiddo and keep playing along as town instead of doing what I did today? It's high-risk, low-reward, and I wouldn't have needed to answer for nearly any of the things that you questioned me about.
Meg might have a better read on this, but my suspicion was that, after WF flipped scum, and with my claim, you might have been concerned that the "town" wouldn't believe that both these killing roles could be Town, and decided to claim Neutral to try and head off that suspicion. Didn't you (someone) say that Meg came flat out and asked if you were really "neutral". So maybe you thought you should run with that?
I don't know. It's not what I'd have done, but apparently no one sees things like I see them.
I mean, I guess? I don't see why our roles wouldn't be able to both be town.
Oh, and I'll point out for the doubters still that, given Cyth. has claimed Neutral, for me to be scum it would mean the scum would have had two roles with extra-kills and there was a "neutral" killing role, and the town had none this game. But Cyth. who is "trying to help the Town and not at all simply trying to save his own skin" is voting for me like he believes that was really the configuration here.
This is a fair point re: the killing role distribution, which is why I've been discussing the Manders lynch as a better approach for toDay with Megiddo in our chat. Note that I never said that I wasn't trying to save my own skin. I'm just trying to do it and help the Town.
So my options as I sit here about to go are (1) leave my vote on Cyth. and most likely end with a No Lynch today. (2) Vote Manders.
Is that it?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
So what are you claiming then? I thought it permanently removed their ability to kill. That should happen regardless of whether or not they actually do attempt a kill. Correct or incorrect?
You are either over-thinking this or are a complete moron. FYI I believe it is the former.
Yes, it permanently removes their ability to kill.
HOWEVER, we only win if my ability actively stops Mafia from performing the NK, so they have to take the shot and have it fail for Town to win due to my ability.
so uh...
suppose we have a scum team comprised of members A B C. you use your ability on scum C. what happens in the following scenarios:
1. scum A and B are dead. Scum C attempts to use the NK.
2. scum A and B are not dead. Scum C attempts to use the NK.
3. scum A and B are dead. Scum C chooses not to use the NK.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
So what are you claiming then? I thought it permanently removed their ability to kill. That should happen regardless of whether or not they actually do attempt a kill. Correct or incorrect?
You are either over-thinking this or are a complete moron. FYI I believe it is the former.
Yes, it permanently removes their ability to kill.
HOWEVER, we only win if my ability actively stops Mafia from performing the NK, so they have to take the shot and have it fail for Town to win due to my ability.
so uh...
suppose we have a scum team comprised of members A B C. you use your ability on scum C. what happens in the following scenarios:
1. scum A and B are dead. Scum C attempts to use the NK.
2. scum A and B are not dead. Scum C attempts to use the NK.
3. scum A and B are dead. Scum C chooses not to use the NK.
In scenario 1 and 2, Town wins. In scenario 3, we would go to Day 6.
I think a No Lynch doesn't do a damn thing for us. This is definitely not the best way to do this, and letting Cyth. live just to try and help him win if he's really neutral is dumb. But Manders was always in the process, I suppose. I'm concerned we're just getting taken for a ride now and too much of the town is just apathetic about it, but I think there's still a way out even if this is a mislynch. Unless, I think, the scum is specifically Meg. and he and Cyth. have got a little arrangement going on in their chat. I don't think that's recoverable. But I have to go. I needed to go 10 minutes ago.
Vote: Manders
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
With Tammy, Axel and Cyth(unless I misse somethong) I'm good to go.
I'm off to bed, 00h20 this side. Here's hoping we win this with a Manders lynch otherwise, good luck Town, I doubt I'll be around tomorrow to see this to the end.
You guys confuse me a bit. Dota has an ic he could used that he didn't want empowerment for. I get avoiding giving empowerment to scum, but that shot would have been nice to have going into today. And Manders has a no-kill ability that permanently makes the person unable to kill, which could at the very least clear people right now, and she never campaigned for empowerment.
And I'm confused by Manders role because am I right that she said that she would win if she stopped the mafia nightkill, and she had to check to see if we would all win in that case? Then how is that a town win condition, wouldn't that be more along the lines of a neutral win condition? I read really fast, so did I just completely misunderstand that?
I think a No Lynch doesn't do a damn thing for us. This is definitely not the best way to do this, and letting Cyth. live just to try and help him win if he's really neutral is dumb. But Manders was always in the process, I suppose. I'm concerned we're just getting taken for a ride now and too much of the town is just apathetic about it, but I think there's still a way out even if this is a mislynch. Unless, I think, the scum is specifically Meg. and he and Cyth. have got a little arrangement going on in their chat. I don't think that's recoverable. But I have to go. I needed to go 10 minutes ago.
You guys confuse me a bit. Dota has an ic he could used that he didn't want empowerment for. I get avoiding giving empowerment to scum, but that shot would have been nice to have going into today. And Manders has a no-kill ability that permanently makes the person unable to kill, which could at the very least clear people right now, and she never campaigned for empowerment.
And I'm confused by Manders role because am I right that she said that she would win if she stopped the mafia nightkill, and she had to check to see if we would all win in that case? Then how is that a town win condition, wouldn't that be more along the lines of a neutral win condition? I read really fast, so did I just completely misunderstand that?
Never campaigned for is wrong. I mentioned several times I had an awesome ability that cost 5 empowerment, but I've been a Scumspect for most of the game, so no one was willing to empower me.
I asked Azrael because the wording wasn't SUPER clear. Yes, I am TOWN and my role PM specifically says I am TOWN. I can't explain this any more without quoting my role PM, so you'll just have to trust (or don't) that what I'm saying is true.
Oh, and I'll point out for the doubters still that, given Cyth. has claimed Neutral, for me to be scum it would mean the scum would have had two roles with extra-kills and there was a "neutral" killing role, and the town had none this game. But Cyth. who is "trying to help the Town and not at all simply trying to save his own skin" is voting for me like he believes that was really the configuration here.
I don't like that you keep just using your role to try to justify why you're town. Some of your frustration today looks townish enough, but your play really hasn't been town enough to cry silly to think your scum. Your role doesn't mean as much as you keep saying it does considering that we were warned that randomization could be a factor here and therefore it is plausible for what you say above to be the case.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
how does cythatrre knowingly align with scum in a "2v2" scenario?
Vote: Manders
Yes, I'm talking about using my block. Yes, it is not a role-block, only a kill-block. It does cost 5 empowerment, and I have none.
Oh, I thought you were good for your ability.
Empower: Cythare
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
So before it's a permanent removal of kill that can result in winning the game if you happened to target the last mafia.
Now it's a kill-block, and no mention of that win-the-game bit.
What's the deal?
And IF I BLOCK THE MAFIA FROM FIRING THE MAFIA NK, TOWN WINS.
There is no discrepancy. You are arguing semantics.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
I said it was a win for us if Scum doesn't shoot, this is correct.
I didn't mean a win as in winning the game, though. I meant a plus for Town-type win.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
"a win for the town" sure but then why would Cythare be winning etc. You are clearly talking about a game-ending scenario here.
(next post clarified that this applied to the mafia's kill).
I mean, people forget what they have said (it happened with DOTA today too) so i'm just interested to hear the explanation.
If the Scum do not fire, it's just a win (lower case, as in A GOOD THING) for the Town because Scum wouldn't have killed anyone regardless of whether I targeted the right person or not.
This is some more of you arguing semantics. Anyone I target will be blocked from killing anyone for the rest of the game. It doesn't matter if I call it "removing their kill" or "blocking their kill" as they amount to the same ******* thing.
No, I absolutely believe he was the Scum's most valuable weapon and that's why Iso and GJ both tried to defend him as best they could.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
That's fine, but then I don't understand what the difference between the scum shooting or not shooting Tonight is. If you target them, it should result in a win no matter what, right? Even if they no-kill Tonight they would be affected by your ability, which is (as you previously told us) a permanent loss of the ability to kill. So, why should it matter if they attempt to kill Tonight?
One other post on this topic:
so... let's reset. Start with explaining in full your ability, all of the specifics?
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Well, what I think is that what you've claimed to have done makes no sense. So it's easier for me to imagine that you're lying about some part of it, such as the part where you claim to have redirected WF to yourself N1. WF could have easily just given it to you straight up. And that would mean you're currently sitting on more empower than we think you have. I haven't said you've been "working against the Town" the entire game. You'd probably be an easier lynch subject if that were the case. I'm saying you definitely haven't done everything you could have done, based on what you claimed.
If he's guessed who it is? If he's got enough empower to do another daykill he can literally shoot anyone and win from that spot. He also doesn't have to do anything at all, frankly, since the Town can't get a lynch without him under those circumstances. He's pretty much then guaranteed to win, yes? I don't feel good about any of that.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
but i am going to suggest that we lynch Manders today.
Meg might have a better read on this, but my suspicion was that, after WF flipped scum, and with my claim, you might have been concerned that the "town" wouldn't believe that both these killing roles could be Town, and decided to claim Neutral to try and head off that suspicion. Didn't you (someone) say that Meg came flat out and asked if you were really "neutral". So maybe you thought you should run with that?
I don't know. It's not what I'd have done, but apparently no one sees things like I see them.
Yes, it permanently removes their ability to kill.
HOWEVER, we only win if my ability actively stops Mafia from performing the NK, so they have to take the shot and have it fail for Town to win due to my ability.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Is that it?
suppose we have a scum team comprised of members A B C. you use your ability on scum C. what happens in the following scenarios:
1. scum A and B are dead. Scum C attempts to use the NK.
2. scum A and B are not dead. Scum C attempts to use the NK.
3. scum A and B are dead. Scum C chooses not to use the NK.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Vote: Manders
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
I'm off to bed, 00h20 this side. Here's hoping we win this with a Manders lynch otherwise, good luck Town, I doubt I'll be around tomorrow to see this to the end.
You guys confuse me a bit. Dota has an ic he could used that he didn't want empowerment for. I get avoiding giving empowerment to scum, but that shot would have been nice to have going into today. And Manders has a no-kill ability that permanently makes the person unable to kill, which could at the very least clear people right now, and she never campaigned for empowerment.
And I'm confused by Manders role because am I right that she said that she would win if she stopped the mafia nightkill, and she had to check to see if we would all win in that case? Then how is that a town win condition, wouldn't that be more along the lines of a neutral win condition? I read really fast, so did I just completely misunderstand that?
yeah, that's been my fear.
I asked Azrael because the wording wasn't SUPER clear. Yes, I am TOWN and my role PM specifically says I am TOWN. I can't explain this any more without quoting my role PM, so you'll just have to trust (or don't) that what I'm saying is true.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
I don't like that you keep just using your role to try to justify why you're town. Some of your frustration today looks townish enough, but your play really hasn't been town enough to cry silly to think your scum. Your role doesn't mean as much as you keep saying it does considering that we were warned that randomization could be a factor here and therefore it is plausible for what you say above to be the case.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Vote Manders
Megiddo, I'm going to request that you follow through on empowering DoTA before it's deadline.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
empower dota
still would have liked to no lynch here but
I'm not 100% comfortable here but I'll take the blame for deciding to take a trip right before deadline.
vote manders
I'm not Scum, so good luck figuring out who the last one is.
GO TOWN
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Can't wait to find out if one of them is the last Scum.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
dota do you have enough to IC?