I think DV is showing equally poor judgement in voting to empower Seppel. I maybe have less expectations from DV than from the supposedly-awesome Sir Chris though.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
The benefit of being as awesome as I am is I don't take my marching orders of mafia strategy from you, Axelrod.
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but anyway to be nice to Axelrod despite him trying to put me on blast (a severe error in judgment in every respect by the way) I empowered Seppel 100% due to my role, which of course Axel-kun here has no idea about so he is just going to slam me ignorantly, which is fine I guess it makes him obviously town, but he maybe shouldn't bite off more than he can chew.
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I know you don't think Manders is scum, and you clearly outlined how you feel about Seppel.
But aside from that, I'm not really sure about what you're thinking this game.
Can you elucidate me on that matter?
I'm personally finding it difficult to feel like I have my claws in anything at this point because it feels like so many people are lurking. Are you feeling that way, as well?
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I don't think there has been too much lurking, has there? I feel like 10-11 people have posted enough for me to remember a few tidbits.
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Your logic. Unless you think Manders is just the worst scum player ever, how do you reconcile the thought that Manders would leave herself open for such a derpy attack on Axelrod later on if she weren't scum with him? By any stretch of the imagination, that would look terrible in any scenario that was NOT scumManders on scumAxel.
It would look like a derpy attack regardless of Axel's alignment. It's scummy because it's derpy - it comes from the mindset of "I'm going to go on record as registering suspicion of Axel" rather than "Look at thing X that Axel did, that's suspicious, let's talk about it."
In general, there are more abilities I can think of that townies in general have that have a positive effect on the state of the person they target if they're town (such as Doctor or Cop) as opposed to the more detrimental ones (such as Jailer, which still has an upside, or Vigilante). I mean, what are the odds that in a game this large, I had Empowered the Vigilante to shoot you? Additionally, do you not think you'll be able to shake Chris's scum read of you before the time he reaches the point where he could detrimentally affect you? Come on, bring back the old Manders who didn't care about the way people were reading her.
I assume you're reading Manders' reaction as "Oh *****, I'm gonna get vigged" (without thinking through that townies have many different kinds of abilities)? Normally I would call that scummy, but Manders may just want to live because she enjoys being in the game (rather than because she's scum who's worried about getting found out).
Okay, why is anyone voting to Empower Seppel based on that claim? I completely fail to understand the logic here. Like even if he's telling the truth (big "if"), he appears to me to be of no value to the Town, and might be straight-up anti-value (removing Doc protects?) We've got a limited # of people we can empower, and we're going to throw that away on this? To help him win and then leave the game (which is also like a free kill for the scum then?)
I'm not sure I believe it anyway, as his ability to win seems to rely completely on us doing something stupid and unproductive (i.e. voting to empower him). It's literally impossible for him to win with his role as described without that. And otherwise it's like he's not even part of the game, just this guy over here doing his own thing which might randomly mess with us (or, to be fair, the scum too, but it's not like he actually cares about that if the claim is true). It's just so weird. I won't say it can't be true because weird is certainly in Az's wheelhouse, but I don't like it as a role, and I want to think Az would be more cognizant of that. But helping Seppel over someone you actually think is Town is pure negative value.
Other news, not a huge fan of what Sir Chris is doing re: Manders. And I don't agree with his logic. And he's voting to give Seppel power which is not something a smart person should be doing, and he claims to be smart.
I do not think that the typical scum reaction to my post (i.e. giving an opinion Manders is Town for a less-than-objectively-great reason) is to jump down the throat of the person who is saying they think you are town. I think her paranoia seems more townie than scummy. I think scum are more likely to play that one of two ways - either get jokey with me, taking my post as a joke post, or staying nice with me, and hoping this read I have doesn't go away.
None of this is definitive, but it makes more sense to me from Town than scum so far.
Manders really didn't "jumping down the throat" of anyone. I would agree with you if she had more aggressively called you out, but that simply wasn't the case. Scum tend to be more paranoid about how others view them, and they'll latch onto weird little things like being judged without any good reason.
I have to be honest, I am struggling a little bit with strong reads thus far. I do think Manders is scum but I'm worried that my logic is being questioned in ways that I don't necessarily agree with/understand but does seem pro-town in its intent. There are also a bunch of players who simply aren't in the game. I feel like D_V and Tom have both contributed nothing of value, even if they've posted a lot (maybe that's a good place to start looking).
Axelrod - Town
Seppel - Neutral
Iso - Town
tomsloger - Scum
D_V - Town
Tordeck - Town
Manders - ?
Gentleman Johnny - Scum
TheIceMan - Town
Sir Chris - Town
Cyan - ?
The ? is a full disclosure moment because I am considering that manders may be town and if so I think Cyan is scum with a epic soft defense earlier on, but not sure on that and want to talk more to manders as I will peel her like the onion she is.
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I think DV is showing equally poor judgement in voting to empower Seppel. I maybe have less expectations from DV than from the supposedly-awesome Sir Chris though.
For me it was a tit for tat trade that I know benefits the town and not scum members. Unless Seppel is scum of course and then its an equal trade.
Sir Chris play surprised me though.
I don't think mine was poor judgement at all. Explain.
I know I am town.
I know Seppel is either Netural as claimed, or scum faking it or town faking it.
At that point my trade of empower for his empower ensures one thing.
That a town member secures the empower and since I can't empower myself it also secures info from him.
It actually is an incredibly good play. You would really have to walk me through why this is bad from my end.
Axelrod - Town
Seppel - Neutral
Iso - Town
tomsloger - Scum
D_V - Town
Tordeck - Town
Manders - ?
Gentleman Johnny - Scum
TheIceMan - Town
Sir Chris - Town
Cyan - ?
The ? is a full disclosure moment because I am considering that manders may be town and if so I think Cyan is scum with a epic soft defense earlier on, but not sure on that and want to talk more to manders as I will peel her like the onion she is.
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God I love you D_V, because I had ten and I just put him in there to see if anyone would call me on that one. Take a billion town points.
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but anyway to be nice to Axelrod despite him trying to put me on blast (a severe error in judgment in every respect by the way) I empowered Seppel 100% due to my role, which of course Axel-kun here has no idea about so he is just going to slam me ignorantly, which is fine I guess it makes him obviously town, but he maybe shouldn't bite off more than he can chew.
This is almost hysterical. Even aside from the ego part.
Look, Chris, if you disagree fundamentally with something I am saying, by all means, let's talk about it. Why is my first impression of Manders off? Why am I just wrong (or am I wrong?) about what scum are or are not more likely to be doing at this stage. Am I wrong in general about empowering Seppel, or just about you in particular? What pray tell, is my ignorance? Ignorance of stuff you aren't saying? Is that actually ignorance then?
I know you don't think Manders is scum, and you clearly outlined how you feel about Seppel.
But aside from that, I'm not really sure about what you're thinking this game.
Can you elucidate me on that matter?
I'm personally finding it difficult to feel like I have my claws in anything at this point because it feels like so many people are lurking. Are you feeling that way, as well?
Thinking about the whole game? I have no idea. It's super early. I don't feel like that many people are lurking yet. Just the one person who hasn't posted at all. Maybe a couple people haven't said much, but that's not a big deal to me yet.
I don't expect to know very much at this point. Feels fairly normal so far in that regard. I imagine after a few more days/posts I'll do a re-read and form some stronger opinions.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Okay, why is anyone voting to Empower Seppel based on that claim? I completely fail to understand the logic here. Like even if he's telling the truth (big "if"), he appears to me to be of no value to the Town, and might be straight-up anti-value (removing Doc protects?) We've got a limited # of people we can empower, and we're going to throw that away on this? To help him win and then leave the game (which is also like a free kill for the scum then?)
I'm not sure I believe it anyway, as his ability to win seems to rely completely on us doing something stupid and unproductive (i.e. voting to empower him). It's literally impossible for him to win with his role as described without that. And otherwise it's like he's not even part of the game, just this guy over here doing his own thing which might randomly mess with us (or, to be fair, the scum too, but it's not like he actually cares about that if the claim is true). It's just so weird. I won't say it can't be true because weird is certainly in Az's wheelhouse, but I don't like it as a role, and I want to think Az would be more cognizant of that. But helping Seppel over someone you actually think is Town is pure negative value.
Other news, not a huge fan of what Sir Chris is doing re: Manders. And I don't agree with his logic. And he's voting to give Seppel power which is not something a smart person should be doing, and he claims to be smart.
I do not think that the typical scum reaction to my post (i.e. giving an opinion Manders is Town for a less-than-objectively-great reason) is to jump down the throat of the person who is saying they think you are town. I think her paranoia seems more townie than scummy. I think scum are more likely to play that one of two ways - either get jokey with me, taking my post as a joke post, or staying nice with me, and hoping this read I have doesn't go away.
None of this is definitive, but it makes more sense to me from Town than scum so far.
Wait.
Wait.
How the hell does he remove doc protects?
Axelrod look up the definition of ignorance and then get back to me.
READS
D_V because he just empowered seppel without giving ****, who does that as scum? No one! Also he was very quick to spot the dumb read in a list of 11, that's impressively town.
Tom has done nothing. That's scum Tom.
GJ struck me funny early it isn't a strong read but I haven't liked him much this game.
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Tom I really don't feel any presence from you this game, it's been weird. Feel free to do stuff it isn't like any of those reads are firmed up but man you trying to wait for others to make waves is just offputting.
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I think DV is showing equally poor judgement in voting to empower Seppel. I maybe have less expectations from DV than from the supposedly-awesome Sir Chris though.
For me it was a tit for tat trade that I know benefits the town and not scum members. Unless Seppel is scum of course and then its an equal trade.
Sir Chris play surprised me though.
I don't think mine was poor judgement at all. Explain.
I know I am town.
I know Seppel is either Netural as claimed, or scum faking it or town faking it.
At that point my trade of empower for his empower ensures one thing.
That a town member secures the empower and since I can't empower myself it also secures info from him.
It actually is an incredibly good play. You would really have to walk me through why this is bad from my end.
Uh, so, let's see. Two of the three situations you just outlined as possibilities are situations in which you would not want to be empowering Seppel - he's what he claimed to be, or he's scum. Even assuming he keeps up his "end" of this trade and votes to empower you, a 1-1 doesn't seem super great. Scum have this whole coordination thing going for them, so any empower votes that go on a scum are kind of doubly bad. Even if Seppel is what he claimed, then instead you have basically thrown away your ability to empower someone who will actually help the Town. And you are assisting in him removing himself from the game, which helps the scum too.
Maybe you surmise that the benefit to the Town here from you specifically being empowered outweighs the fact that your own empower vote is getting wasted, and maybe you could even be correct depending on what you get from being empowered. But I think you'd do better to try and convince people to empower you naturally in that event, and then you get your power and also don't have to throw away giving help to someone else.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Wait.
Wait.
How the hell does he remove doc protects?
Unvote Vote Axel
Did you read his claim?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Anyway Axelrod when you say stuff like "supposedly great" etc you aren't going to get the friendly version of me. If you can't see the points I am making, that's fine and if you think I am being stupid that is also fine, but if you want to try to get at me on a "oh man I guess Chris isn't a good player" level then I can be as vicious as anyone. So no, you weren't calling it like you see it, you were needling me and I don't care for it, so yeah you get the ego and the gruff reply. I don't have a real problem with your read of Manders for what it is, I guess you don't like that I called it flawed? I mean it is very surface level on something that has no determining factor of someone alignment like, ever so there's that. It's not a read I think I have ever seen bear legitimate fruit.
Anyway the specific thing here is as it relates to my power. I have a good reason for empowering Seppel, that will become obvious once my empowerment power is revealed. Calling you ignorant wasn't a diss, it just means you lacked the knowledge I have for obvious reasons.
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Axelrod look up the definition of ignorance and then get back to me.
Yeah, so, I suspect the way Sir Chris just completely avoided talking about anything I was just saying means he's probably scum.
Vote: Sir Chris
Let's go here.
You may now threaten me with your wrath again.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
If I threatened every bad vote on me I'd still be threatening Tom from Predator mafia last year ;x.
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I think DV is showing equally poor judgement in voting to empower Seppel. I maybe have less expectations from DV than from the supposedly-awesome Sir Chris though.
For me it was a tit for tat trade that I know benefits the town and not scum members. Unless Seppel is scum of course and then its an equal trade.
Sir Chris play surprised me though.
I don't think mine was poor judgement at all. Explain.
I know I am town.
I know Seppel is either Netural as claimed, or scum faking it or town faking it.
At that point my trade of empower for his empower ensures one thing.
That a town member secures the empower and since I can't empower myself it also secures info from him.
It actually is an incredibly good play. You would really have to walk me through why this is bad from my end.
Uh, so, let's see. Two of the three situations you just outlined as possibilities are situations in which you would not want to be empowering Seppel - he's what he claimed to be, or he's scum. Even assuming he keeps up his "end" of this trade and votes to empower you, a 1-1 doesn't seem super great. Scum have this whole coordination thing going for them, so any empower votes that go on a scum are kind of doubly bad. Even if Seppel is what he claimed, then instead you have basically thrown away your ability to empower someone who will actually help the Town. And you are assisting in him removing himself from the game, which helps the scum too.
Maybe you surmise that the benefit to the Town here from you specifically being empowered outweighs the fact that your own empower vote is getting wasted, and maybe you could even be correct depending on what you get from being empowered. But I think you'd do better to try and convince people to empower you naturally in that event, and then you get your power and also don't have to throw away giving help to someone else.
You're soo offbase though.
If Seppel is scum his vote has to go to me.
That means his vote can't go to another scum buddy.
Anyone else who empowers Seppel such as Sir Chris is suspect. Because I already did it, and you're right on the coordination part. Except that as scum claiming to be neutral is the worst possible thing ever. Because now any empower votes on you are suspect. It actually is just bad because now everyone is going to be watching those empowers.
I still want you to explain the doc protection thing since that is a strange claim to me.
Your thought process is sort of correct on my empower being good on another town, but it is equally as good on Seppel. Seppel if neutral could go to a scum, I've essentially locked out that "Free" empower from them.
Furthermore I think its equally likely that he is scum or town running this gambit if he is lying. So, that's a 50-50, but I think its higher percentage that he is actually neutral.
Mathematically it is straight up a good empower trade.
Give me a minute to decide it this changes my mind....
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Anyway Axelrod when you say stuff like "supposedly great" etc you aren't going to get the friendly version of me. If you can't see the points I am making, that's fine and if you think I am being stupid that is also fine, but if you want to try to get at me on a "oh man I guess Chris isn't a good player" level then I can be as vicious as anyone. So no, you weren't calling it like you see it, you were needling me and I don't care for it, so yeah you get the ego and the gruff reply. I don't have a real problem with your read of Manders for what it is, I guess you don't like that I called it flawed? I mean it is very surface level on something that has no determining factor of someone alignment like, ever so there's that. It's not a read I think I have ever seen bear legitimate fruit.
Anyway the specific thing here is as it relates to my power. I have a good reason for empowering Seppel, that will become obvious once my empowerment power is revealed. Calling you ignorant wasn't a diss, it just means you lacked the knowledge I have for obvious reasons.
I am going to apologize for needling you with the ego stuff. Like, you were/are totally doing it and it does rub me the wrong way, but I don't have to get snarky about it and I'll try to tone it down.
Agree or disagree that your own initial "read" of Manders:
I really don't like it when people make a post to say “I don't know what to make of this” when it is about themselves. Like, I am confused about a lot of things over the course of a game but direct interaction when my name is called is usually not one of them. So yeah, not really feeling Manders as town based on that reaction to Axelrod.
was as equally superficial and surface level as mine?
And you appear to be saying that this empower thing is good because of your role specifically. Okay, but are you agree/disagree in general with what I said about empowering Seppel?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I... think empowerment is an interesting mechanic and I don't think there is any way to know right now what is 100% wrong. Like there are ways to leverage our empowerments, for example, to get better reads on people and the host himself said behavior should trump everything but I agree with him on that.
Also my observation from my own history tends to bear fruit. So same ballpark as yours but yours is a foul ball where mine tends to be a double in the gap so to speak!
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but anyway to be nice to Axelrod despite him trying to put me on blast (a severe error in judgment in every respect by the way) I empowered Seppel 100% due to my role, which of course Axel-kun here has no idea about so he is just going to slam me ignorantly, which is fine I guess it makes him obviously town, but he maybe shouldn't bite off more than he can chew.
You were already threatening me. Like, you threatened me twice in the same sentence.
It was like you got all hyped up before I even voted you, but then when I did you were all like, pshaw, no big deal.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I was threatening because you were being a jerk not because you were playing mafia ;x.
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Axelrod look up the definition of ignorance and then get back to me.
READS
D_V because he just empowered seppel without giving ****, who does that as scum? No one! Also he was very quick to spot the dumb read in a list of 11, that's impressively town.
Tom has done nothing. That's scum Tom.
GJ struck me funny early it isn't a strong read but I haven't liked him much this game.
Does DV's Axelrod vote strike you as more of a town or scum thing? I don't see it as a reason to vote someone. It's like a phony "Aha, gotcha!" moment, and wholly mechanical in nature.
Let's talk more about GJ. What of his earlier posts rubbed you the wrong way?
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Iso is making me a bit nervous with him trying to put me/Chris/Cyan in a single clear. I think we are all really hard players to read sometimes, so the fact that he has us all leaning town is bothering me.
I think SC is town primarily because I don't feel that malice tone he has had in Starcraft, and his browbeating of Axel feels like he is trying to slap around people to seeing his way. I don't see him doing this is as town.
I think there is a lot of slanking going on with people I wouldn't be expecting to slanking. It is that part of the holiday, but I am going to lose my happy face if this continues. So for now:
Make me feel scared and less happy. I am too comfortable right now. It is still early, but a pressure vote from you does nothing. I also know I am town, and just waiting to turn on the turbo.
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Also, I wouldn't say tom is quite doing "nothing" any more, but what he is doing does seem rather opportunistic.
You have always struggled to read me, so you coming in so quickly with a ton read feels super pockety. And you have one on SC (fine I do too) but Cyan as well?
I mean, I liked Cyan's softbat for Manders instead of jumping on it like I'd expect scumCyan to do. As for why I think you're town, I'd have to go back and re-read to remind myself but there was something I particularly liked that you posted that made me go, "Huh, GJ might actually be town this time around."
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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I think DV is showing equally poor judgement in voting to empower Seppel. I maybe have less expectations from DV than from the supposedly-awesome Sir Chris though.
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I know you don't think Manders is scum, and you clearly outlined how you feel about Seppel.
But aside from that, I'm not really sure about what you're thinking this game.
Can you elucidate me on that matter?
I'm personally finding it difficult to feel like I have my claws in anything at this point because it feels like so many people are lurking. Are you feeling that way, as well?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I assume you're reading Manders' reaction as "Oh *****, I'm gonna get vigged" (without thinking through that townies have many different kinds of abilities)? Normally I would call that scummy, but Manders may just want to live because she enjoys being in the game (rather than because she's scum who's worried about getting found out).
Manders really didn't "jumping down the throat" of anyone. I would agree with you if she had more aggressively called you out, but that simply wasn't the case. Scum tend to be more paranoid about how others view them, and they'll latch onto weird little things like being judged without any good reason.
I have to be honest, I am struggling a little bit with strong reads thus far. I do think Manders is scum but I'm worried that my logic is being questioned in ways that I don't necessarily agree with/understand but does seem pro-town in its intent. There are also a bunch of players who simply aren't in the game. I feel like D_V and Tom have both contributed nothing of value, even if they've posted a lot (maybe that's a good place to start looking).
Axelrod - Town
Seppel - Neutral
Iso - Town
tomsloger - Scum
D_V - Town
Tordeck - Town
Manders - ?
Gentleman Johnny - Scum
TheIceMan - Town
Sir Chris - Town
Cyan - ?
The ? is a full disclosure moment because I am considering that manders may be town and if so I think Cyan is scum with a epic soft defense earlier on, but not sure on that and want to talk more to manders as I will peel her like the onion she is.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
For me it was a tit for tat trade that I know benefits the town and not scum members. Unless Seppel is scum of course and then its an equal trade.
Sir Chris play surprised me though.
I don't think mine was poor judgement at all. Explain.
I know I am town.
I know Seppel is either Netural as claimed, or scum faking it or town faking it.
At that point my trade of empower for his empower ensures one thing.
That a town member secures the empower and since I can't empower myself it also secures info from him.
It actually is an incredibly good play. You would really have to walk me through why this is bad from my end.
Why Tordeck town?
-
@Chris: Thank you. Let's talk about Tom, D_V, and GJ.
Do you think Tom is scum for the same reasons I do?
Why do you think DV is town?
Why do you think GJ is scum?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Why are you ignoring his outrageous Tordeck read?
Touchy? And who's giving marching orders anyway? Just calling 'em like I see 'em.
This is almost hysterical. Even aside from the ego part.
Look, Chris, if you disagree fundamentally with something I am saying, by all means, let's talk about it. Why is my first impression of Manders off? Why am I just wrong (or am I wrong?) about what scum are or are not more likely to be doing at this stage. Am I wrong in general about empowering Seppel, or just about you in particular? What pray tell, is my ignorance? Ignorance of stuff you aren't saying? Is that actually ignorance then?
Thinking about the whole game? I have no idea. It's super early. I don't feel like that many people are lurking yet. Just the one person who hasn't posted at all. Maybe a couple people haven't said much, but that's not a big deal to me yet.
I don't expect to know very much at this point. Feels fairly normal so far in that regard. I imagine after a few more days/posts I'll do a re-read and form some stronger opinions.
ive suddenly become convinced hes lying.
Wait.
Wait.
How the hell does he remove doc protects?
Unvote Vote Axel
READS
D_V because he just empowered seppel without giving ****, who does that as scum? No one! Also he was very quick to spot the dumb read in a list of 11, that's impressively town.
Tom has done nothing. That's scum Tom.
GJ struck me funny early it isn't a strong read but I haven't liked him much this game.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
but also, see above, regarding seppel
that doesnt sound right
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Uh, so, let's see. Two of the three situations you just outlined as possibilities are situations in which you would not want to be empowering Seppel - he's what he claimed to be, or he's scum. Even assuming he keeps up his "end" of this trade and votes to empower you, a 1-1 doesn't seem super great. Scum have this whole coordination thing going for them, so any empower votes that go on a scum are kind of doubly bad. Even if Seppel is what he claimed, then instead you have basically thrown away your ability to empower someone who will actually help the Town. And you are assisting in him removing himself from the game, which helps the scum too.
Maybe you surmise that the benefit to the Town here from you specifically being empowered outweighs the fact that your own empower vote is getting wasted, and maybe you could even be correct depending on what you get from being empowered. But I think you'd do better to try and convince people to empower you naturally in that event, and then you get your power and also don't have to throw away giving help to someone else.
Did you read his claim?
@[redacted]
I believe you more than him
But I guess it doesn't mean anything
vote johnny
Anyway the specific thing here is as it relates to my power. I have a good reason for empowering Seppel, that will become obvious once my empowerment power is revealed. Calling you ignorant wasn't a diss, it just means you lacked the knowledge I have for obvious reasons.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Yeah, so, I suspect the way Sir Chris just completely avoided talking about anything I was just saying means he's probably scum.
Vote: Sir Chris
Let's go here.
You may now threaten me with your wrath again.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
You're soo offbase though.
If Seppel is scum his vote has to go to me.
That means his vote can't go to another scum buddy.
Anyone else who empowers Seppel such as Sir Chris is suspect. Because I already did it, and you're right on the coordination part. Except that as scum claiming to be neutral is the worst possible thing ever. Because now any empower votes on you are suspect. It actually is just bad because now everyone is going to be watching those empowers.
I still want you to explain the doc protection thing since that is a strange claim to me.
Your thought process is sort of correct on my empower being good on another town, but it is equally as good on Seppel. Seppel if neutral could go to a scum, I've essentially locked out that "Free" empower from them.
Furthermore I think its equally likely that he is scum or town running this gambit if he is lying. So, that's a 50-50, but I think its higher percentage that he is actually neutral.
Mathematically it is straight up a good empower trade.
Give me a minute to decide it this changes my mind....
Walk me through it like I'm a child.
It removes passives not doc protects.
Carry on.
I am going to apologize for needling you with the ego stuff. Like, you were/are totally doing it and it does rub me the wrong way, but I don't have to get snarky about it and I'll try to tone it down.
Agree or disagree that your own initial "read" of Manders:
was as equally superficial and surface level as mine?
And you appear to be saying that this empower thing is good because of your role specifically. Okay, but are you agree/disagree in general with what I said about empowering Seppel?
Also my observation from my own history tends to bear fruit. So same ballpark as yours but yours is a foul ball where mine tends to be a double in the gap so to speak!
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
because here
You were already threatening me. Like, you threatened me twice in the same sentence.
It was like you got all hyped up before I even voted you, but then when I did you were all like, pshaw, no big deal.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Because Tordeck's my scumbuddy and I don't want to draw attention to him.
(Real answer: I'm on my phone and missed it.)
And therefore is scum?
Does DV's Axelrod vote strike you as more of a town or scum thing? I don't see it as a reason to vote someone. It's like a phony "Aha, gotcha!" moment, and wholly mechanical in nature.
Let's talk more about GJ. What of his earlier posts rubbed you the wrong way?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Usually when you pressure vote, you tend to want to ask people for pressure.
Also, I am pushing Anak for a very relevant reason that has nothing to do with spite.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
CF/Anak/???/???/Seppel*
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Iso is making me a bit nervous with him trying to put me/Chris/Cyan in a single clear. I think we are all really hard players to read sometimes, so the fact that he has us all leaning town is bothering me.
I think SC is town primarily because I don't feel that malice tone he has had in Starcraft, and his browbeating of Axel feels like he is trying to slap around people to seeing his way. I don't see him doing this is as town.
I think there is a lot of slanking going on with people I wouldn't be expecting to slanking. It is that part of the holiday, but I am going to lose my happy face if this continues. So for now:
GJ
Manders
SC
DV
The Unknown
Neutral
Seppel
Anak
CF
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Johnny, this is me pressuring you
Do you feel pressured?
Is it working?
You are not [redacted] though.
That was separate.
And why are you scumreading a zero poster?
Not even a little. I get votes every game I play in. You are going to have to do better than that, dear tom.
Champ's rule from MU: There is always 1 scum in the zero posters.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
How do I make you feel pressure?
Who wants to vote johnny with me?
Make me feel scared and less happy. I am too comfortable right now. It is still early, but a pressure vote from you does nothing. I also know I am town, and just waiting to turn on the turbo.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Also, I wouldn't say tom is quite doing "nothing" any more, but what he is doing does seem rather opportunistic.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
vote gj with me. itll be fun.
You have always struggled to read me, so you coming in so quickly with a ton read feels super pockety. And you have one on SC (fine I do too) but Cyan as well?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player