As requested, summary of why I think Silver is town:
When he replaced in, he sounded incredibly townie to me. His mindset didn't seem like scum trying to salvage a dying spot, but like town attempting to salvage the game. That can be faked, sure, but it felt real.
One thing he did upon my request that I really appreciated was that he went through Dota's posts and actually analyzed them, where he could have said something along the lines of "I really don't know what he was thinking or doing, but I'm town."
In regards to his read on me: What I would have expected from scum!silver after coming in would be either a halfhearted defense of me for towncred once I flipped town, or letting me get lynched and not really taking much heat (if any) because he wasn't involved one way or another. Instead, he actually put time and effort into stopping the wagon against me, in way more than a "lemme pocket this townie" way.
How recent events have affected this read:
I think silver has been showing a lot of frustration in this MyLo scenario, which makes a whole lot of sense. If we are being honest, how many people have actually read his posts with an open mind to his alignment? While frustration in and of itself is NAI, the origination of this frustration feels incredibly townie. Right now, the town has a very real chance at losing, and you can see that in silver's posts as the number one mislynch target.
___________________________________________
I get it, this case is difficult for some people because of the scum!partner WIFOM argument. But I am town, and I very strongly believe that silver is too.
As requested, summary of why I think Silver is town:
When he replaced in, he sounded incredibly townie to me. His mindset didn't seem like scum trying to salvage a dying spot, but like town attempting to salvage the game. That can be faked, sure, but it felt real.
One thing he did upon my request that I really appreciated was that he went through Dota's posts and actually analyzed them, where he could have said something along the lines of "I really don't know what he was thinking or doing, but I'm town."
In regards to his read on me: What I would have expected from scum!silver after coming in would be either a halfhearted defense of me for towncred once I flipped town, or letting me get lynched and not really taking much heat (if any) because he wasn't involved one way or another. Instead, he actually put time and effort into stopping the wagon against me, in way more than a "lemme pocket this townie" way.
How recent events have affected this read:
I think silver has been showing a lot of frustration in this MyLo scenario, which makes a whole lot of sense. If we are being honest, how many people have actually read his posts with an open mind to his alignment? While frustration in and of itself is NAI, the origination of this frustration feels incredibly townie. Right now, the town has a very real chance at losing, and you can see that in silver's posts as the number one mislynch target.
___________________________________________
I get it, this case is difficult for some people because of the scum!partner WIFOM argument. But I am town, and I very strongly believe that silver is too.
Shouldn't you be the 'number one myslynch target' given how many of us have either voted you or are willing to vote you first before Silver? DAE feel this is a slip?
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Quote from Vaimes »
We see the wild Zenzao going about his natural routine, almost like clockwork: lurking around the savanna (his desktop) and occasionally moseying up to other gentle creatures; until around sundown, at which point he packs up and makes for his tree (goes mobile) where he will spend the rest of the evening alone and undisturbed. A healthy Zenzao will prefer not sleep for some time, and their precise waking time is currently unknown.
As requested, summary of why I think Silver is town:
When he replaced in, he sounded incredibly townie to me. His mindset didn't seem like scum trying to salvage a dying spot, but like town attempting to salvage the game. That can be faked, sure, but it felt real.
One thing he did upon my request that I really appreciated was that he went through Dota's posts and actually analyzed them, where he could have said something along the lines of "I really don't know what he was thinking or doing, but I'm town."
In regards to his read on me: What I would have expected from scum!silver after coming in would be either a halfhearted defense of me for towncred once I flipped town, or letting me get lynched and not really taking much heat (if any) because he wasn't involved one way or another. Instead, he actually put time and effort into stopping the wagon against me, in way more than a "lemme pocket this townie" way.
How recent events have affected this read:
I think silver has been showing a lot of frustration in this MyLo scenario, which makes a whole lot of sense. If we are being honest, how many people have actually read his posts with an open mind to his alignment? While frustration in and of itself is NAI, the origination of this frustration feels incredibly townie. Right now, the town has a very real chance at losing, and you can see that in silver's posts as the number one mislynch target.
___________________________________________
I get it, this case is difficult for some people because of the scum!partner WIFOM argument. But I am town, and I very strongly believe that silver is too.
Shouldn't you be the 'number one myslynch target' given how many of us have either voted you or are willing to vote you first before Silver? DAE feel this is a slip?
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't feel like I'm at that high of risk of dying currently, multiple people have said I'm scum only if silver is actually scum.
We see the wild Zenzao going about his natural routine, almost like clockwork: lurking around the savanna (his desktop) and occasionally moseying up to other gentle creatures; until around sundown, at which point he packs up and makes for his tree (goes mobile) where he will spend the rest of the evening alone and undisturbed. A healthy Zenzao will prefer not sleep for some time, and their precise waking time is currently unknown.
[b]Seppel has been killed. He was Town 1-shot Vigilante.
With 8 alive the threshold is 5.
Let's see who else joins the merry bandwagon on the road to the end of times. You're my top scumread right now. If you flip town as well, tough ***** then, this game was a disaster anyway.
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Quote from Vaimes »
We see the wild Zenzao going about his natural routine, almost like clockwork: lurking around the savanna (his desktop) and occasionally moseying up to other gentle creatures; until around sundown, at which point he packs up and makes for his tree (goes mobile) where he will spend the rest of the evening alone and undisturbed. A healthy Zenzao will prefer not sleep for some time, and their precise waking time is currently unknown.
@Zen:
No, I don't think that was a slip. This game is balls though.
@shadow:
I think you're in bigger danger of being lynched than me, despite Eco's idea that my head is on the chopping block. I only know three players that want to lynch me but you're the default. Tom/Vaimes/Eco/Zen/Rodemy all want you dead, I believe.
Actually, when I reread I need to double check that from yesterDay. You're only alive now because Eco diverted the lynch to Mindreaver, so there should be some decent info there somewhere.
Eh, if shadow gets quicklynched, then it's whatever. I just can't see anyone being scum outside of tom/Silver/shadow. Maaaybe Rod and Eco, if I squint really hard.
Would have been nice to flip at least one of the first three with that vig shot, but c'est la vie.
Eh, if shadow gets quicklynched, then it's whatever. I just can't see anyone being scum outside of tom/Silver/shadow. Maaaybe Rod and Eco, if I squint really hard.
Would have been nice to flip at least one of the first three with that vig shot, but c'est la vie.
Re bolded: Why are you giving up?
Pretend you think I'm town for a moment and walk me through what on earth makes you see silver and tom as scum together?
At least I'm pretty sure there won't be a quick hammer because either Silver is scum or Tom + Zenzao are. I don't get why you guys want to just risk the game on Shadow without even a little bit of reevaluation. Well, unless you're scum of course, then it'd make sense.
At least I'm pretty sure there won't be a quick hammer because either shadow is scum or Tom + Zenzao are. I don't get why you guys want to just risk the game on Shadow without even a little bit of reevaluation. Well, unless you're scum of course, then it'd make sense.
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Quote from Vaimes »
We see the wild Zenzao going about his natural routine, almost like clockwork: lurking around the savanna (his desktop) and occasionally moseying up to other gentle creatures; until around sundown, at which point he packs up and makes for his tree (goes mobile) where he will spend the rest of the evening alone and undisturbed. A healthy Zenzao will prefer not sleep for some time, and their precise waking time is currently unknown.
Eh, if shadow gets quicklynched, then it's whatever. I just can't see anyone being scum outside of tom/Silver/shadow. Maaaybe Rod and Eco, if I squint really hard.
Would have been nice to flip at least one of the first three with that vig shot, but c'est la vie.
Re bolded: Why are you giving up?
Pretend you think I'm town for a moment and walk me through what on earth makes you see silver and tom as scum together?
Easy. Other people are townier.
Vaimes
Zenzao
tom
Silver
shadow
Eco
Rod
zomg
I'm town, zomg is the Doc, and Zenzao is town.
tom
Silver
shadow
Eco
Rod
Three scum in five names. Not horrible, but I'd like to do better than that.
I am leaning town on Shock's slot, as well as on Rod.
tom
Silver
shadow
Boop. tom/Silver/shadow team. And even if I'm wrong on two of you, hey, there's still 100% one scum among the three of you. Silver and shadow say it's tom. tom says it's Silver and shadow. I have scumreads on all of you, so I guess it's my lucky day.
There is a chance you could sell me on a world where Eco or Rod are scum, but it'd have to be pretty strong. Otherwise, I'm going to continue pushing for you or Silver to die. I very much doubt that you are BOTH town.
"But Vaimes, you must be wrong on one of your townreads, because I'm town!" Yeah well boo ******* hoo, everyone is going to say that and it means nothing if you haven't been able to prove it by the time endgame rolls around. A lot of people want to lynch you -- why do you think that is? A lot of people want to lynch Silver -- why do you think that is? Almost no one wants to lynch me or Eco or Rod -- why do you think that is? I think out of all the lynch candidates, people are waffling on tom the most -- why do you think that is?
I don't really have a townread on tom, because his entire play this game has been "get Silver/shadow lynched!" And despite how strongly I'm scumreading them, I don't know if I'm leading town off a cliff and tom's just hitching along for the ride, or he's town and we're just thinking the same way about those slots. Because if I had gotten my way and lynched through Silver and shadow, that would give me a much better read on tom. As well as others who've pretty much waved Silver off as "he seems towny so must be town."
Dota and shadow had awful interactions with each other. Abysmal. Death was the only justifiable course of action. But then Silver replaced in, smiled a dazzling smile while pushing what was always bound to be an awful lynch on Shock, and in the process it's like everyone just forgot how scummy DoTA was. It's mind-boggling. I wish I'd been the ******* Vig so I could at least get some peace of mind on D2 instead of MyLo.
@Vaimes: would you be willing to join a Tom lynch and I can have time in the night/tomorrow to build a proper case? With the way things are already going, I don't think this day is going to last very long, one way or the other.
A lot of people want to lynch [shadow] -- why do you think that is?
Because Huntz pushed a bad case on him and people are literally just /barning it?
Quote from Vaimes »
A lot of people want to lynch Silver -- why do you think that is?
Because I'm probably scum with shadow because he talked obliquely about DoTA and not to him... at the bottom of the first page of the game?
Because DoTA had one or two scummy reactions to things at the beginning of the game?
Both of these cases are literally jokes. No one can tell me exactly what makes me or shadow scum. You just keep saying we must be because we're in the PoE... But we're in the PoE because you've assumed we're scum together.
Quote from Vaimes »
Almost no one wants to lynch me or Eco or Rod -- why do you think that is?
Because the entire game has been focused on lynching me and shadow so no one has looked very hard at you/them yet?
Quote from Vaimes »
I think out of all the lynch candidates, people are waffling on tom the most -- why do you think that is?
Because his scum buddies are being town read and don't actually want to lynch him because they'd rather just win the game than bus him for cred?
@Vaimes: would you be willing to join a Tom lynch and I can have time in the night/tomorrow to build a proper case? With the way things are already going, I don't think this day is going to last very long, one way or the other.
Vote Tom
"Can you give me more time?"
The answer is no, because it is MyLo and one more lynch is all scum needs. And you asking to put off this case until AFTER the lynch does not make me feel good about it. Not at all.
@Vaimes: would you be willing to join a Tom lynch and I can have time in the night/tomorrow to build a proper case? With the way things are already going, I don't think this day is going to last very long, one way or the other.
Vote Tom
"Can you give me more time?"
The answer is no, because it is MyLo and one more lynch is all scum needs. And you asking to put off this case until AFTER the lynch does not make me feel good about it. Not at all.
Fine, but if I die in the middle of me doing a bunch of work casing someone, I'm coming after you.
Probably not going to have something until the weekend when I can sit in front of my computer.
Man, I get paranoid at Tom and Zen for voting and then Shadow and Silver both do it as well. Could everyone just chill out while I'm trying to work things out?
@Vaimes: Ignore Shadow. Would you accept a Tom lynch today?
By "ignore" I meant I don't care about whether you're interested or not in giving Shadow more time, not ignore him as a lynch prospect. I guess a better way to phrase it would have been do you particularly care which of your scum team you lynch?
@Vaimes: would you be willing to join a Tom lynch and I can have time in the night/tomorrow to build a proper case? With the way things are already going, I don't think this day is going to last very long, one way or the other.
shadow's been at L-2 for almost an entire day, and yet he is still alive.
What could this mean?
1) He's mafia, and the scumteam is holding out hope that we'll get bored or paranoid and move the wagon onto a villager they can hammer.
2) He's town, and he's already being voted by 2/3 of the scumteam. The last mafia can't quickhammer for the win quite yet.
3) He's town, and the mafia have just been unable to coordinate being online at the same time to orchestrate the quickhammer.
4) He's town, at least two players on his wagon are town, and the mafia can hammer him, but are choosing not to.
I believe in 1!
If you believe in 2, you need to go back and see if 2/3 of Rod/Zenzao/tom makes sense as a team.
3 is ~possible, since scum very likely don't have Daychat. It'll be hard for all three of them to pile onto a towny already at L-3.
4 is slowrolling and dickish so I sicerely hope that isn't what's happening.
I actually went through Rod's ISO a bit to see how he's interacted with Zenzao and tom.
Rod flirted with tom a lot and he'd probably be more self-conscious about it if they were buddies. There have also been times where Rod disagreed with tom's reads, and he seemed genuinely upset or confused.
I think this post also makes them unlikely to be knowingly aligned:
I would rather lose one town toNight than lynch town and lose one at night.
Why do you want to lynch town?
I dont.
But if we can't lynch someone else lynching shockwave is better than talking about lynching shockwave again tomorrow
What.
You said
"I'd rather lynch town"
I don't think this is a fake interaction they decided to have for no reason, and then just...drop it. They didn't even need fake interactions, they had plenty of (mostly one-sided) flirty ones.
Rod/tom worlds: eliminated. What about Rod/Zen?
Also unlikely. Rod shifted his scumread focus onto Zen soon after he replaced in. When you have a scumbuddy whose slot is mostly void, you probably wouldn't immediately start pressuring the replacement. Draws unnecessary attention to 2/3 of your team.
Okay I'm getting bored of this, Rod is town. Proof:
/shrug/
So lynch me if you can then, Seppel. And when I flip vanilla town, if you're also town, you're thereafter going on my 'do not play in a game with' list alongside Mathblade and Titus.
Sorry, I'm not interested in you any more.
I can hear the heartbreak.
In other news, i still can't tell if you are scum or town and it bothers me.
I am leaning town but *****, you are always so hard to read.
This is not a scumpost. Full stop.
---
Possible scum voting on shadow have been reduced to Zenzao and tom.
But Zenzao is town, so lol. And tom might not even be scum, given the likelihood that I'm just a paranoid mess.
So. Theory that two scum are voting for shadow: scrapped. Chances of shadow just being scum: rising.
I think i just misread you, but you said
Zen is town.
Tom could be town
I am town.
I forgot eco so...
Oops.
But that leaves silver and you from my perspective on what you said. See, i dont know if you are town or not, so if i go by your poe (assuming you also think eco is town)
You failed to mention silver and yourself soo..
Your poe from my perspective puts you and her in the scumslots. Unless you wanna say eco is the other one and not you.
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
@Vaimes:
shadow not being hammered is ???, but I didn't really think it was you and Eco together so it's not really an earth shattering revelation that, you know, it isn't.
But I don't know how far I can trust your meta read of Zen if that's really all you have on him. If you want me to believe he's town I need more than just your assertion that he's outside his scum range. Especially considering he's new to the site. I tried to dig up some of his games on DLP but I can't figure out how to iso him there so it's a bit of a hassle - I don't really want to wade through the full 70+ pages of HP Mafia he was in to get half a meta read.
Anyway. Yeah, shadow could be scum with tom. If shadow is scum he reverse pocketed me good, so lolme I guess.
But it would explain why tom always wanted me first since people only thought shadow was scum with me so my flip soft-clears him.
Problem is, I still don't really think tom on shadow is a bus. That's why I think it's more likely tom/zen on town!shadow.
I'm part way through my reread but it hasn't really changed how I feel about anything. I'll finish it up tomorrow probably and make a post, about the stuff that happened when Eco started the Mindreaver wagon if nothing else.
/shrug/
So lynch me if you can then, Seppel. And when I flip vanilla town, if you're also town, you're thereafter going on my 'do not play in a game with' list alongside Mathblade and Titus.
@Eco: Get around to me and then we'll call it good. As is your Mind case does actually make me happier about the prospects of lynching scum this game.
Vote Mindreaver.
This is not a post scum makes to a townie.
His obsession with getting some content out of Eco (specifically about Zenzao himself) is also very unlikely to have been something scum would do.
In the abstract, that looks exactly like the kind of post scum makes to a townie. Because they (usually) don't really mean it, they're just trying to get the townie to back off. Scarbo made similar posts in Trigger Happy, if I recall correctly.
I don't know. Maybe I'm just tunneling. The Eco thing is a thing, I guess, but if it's not Zen it's still [tom/shadow] and between you, Eco, and Rodemy for the third. Problem is, I kind of don't think it's Eco because he's been pretty townie and I don't really think it's Rodemy for a host of reasons. Rodemy's not even really a credible scum buddy for shadow anyway.
So I guess it's most likely you, if it's not him? Which... sort of makes sense (even though I thought your play was wildly different from Trigger Happy). But if it's tom/you I actually think zen is a more likely third than shadow and tom/zen means shadow can be town and not be hammered. I think a long hard look at the stuff that happened around the Mindreaver wagon will help me figure out who's who, because some of the people that wanted shadow dead lynched Mindreaver instead and I'm hoping I can figure out if scum were saving him for toDay or if they were choosing a town lynch over a buddy.
I need to look at wagons still, too, but I suspect I'll just end up confirming my own bias and it won't actually help. Meh. I'll do it anyway because I like looking at wagons.
shadow's been at L-2 for almost an entire day, and yet he is still alive.
What could this mean?
1) He's mafia, and the scumteam is holding out hope that we'll get bored or paranoid and move the wagon onto a villager they can hammer.
2) He's town, and he's already being voted by 2/3 of the scumteam. The last mafia can't quickhammer for the win quite yet.
3) He's town, and the mafia have just been unable to coordinate being online at the same time to orchestrate the quickhammer.
4) He's town, at least two players on his wagon are town, and the mafia can hammer him, but are choosing not to.
I believe in 1!
If you believe in 2, you need to go back and see if 2/3 of Rod/Zenzao/tom makes sense as a team.
It's pretty obvious I consider 2 to be entirely viable.
I also notice you're not voting for Shadow despite your confidence. I don't actually want you to vote, but I'm having trouble working out why you're not.
Eh. I have a lot of "but what if I'm wrong?" moments and keep talking myself out of voting.
Wrong about Silver and/or shadow, for one. I think tom makes the most sense as scum with them due to wagon positions, 'cause I'm never going to catch tom on behavior.
Look at both EoD wagons.
D1
---
Shock (1): AG (#812)
DoTASilver (1): Seppel (#566)
shadow (3): Rod (#843), tom (#844), Vaimes (#848)
AG (7): Shock (#719), HuntMind (#769), DoTASilver (#776), zomg (#778), ClaraZen (#786), shadow (#831), KosaMete0r (#859)
---
I have mild reservations about you/Shock compared to my townreads on Rod and Zenzao, but zomg's softclear of you + Seppel's townread on you kind of outweighs that.
With my reads, there is one dark spot off the D1 wagon (tom), and I doubt the entire mafia team felt comfortable voting all together. Scum ping.
There are two dark spots on the main wagon. Buddies #2 and #3 on the bandwagon.
On the D2 wagon, it's smaller, and looks like there's only one scum voting and the two others are off in nowhereland.
I'm going to feel beyond stupid if I was right about there being three scum in the four names I listed and the first one we lynch is the townie. That's what's stopping me from voting.
I may just bite the bullet and vote soon-ish, or else I'm just going to drive myself crazy. I'll sleep on it.
---
Town games
Classics: replaced in, tunneled into two scumreads (one of them was scum), had a slapfight with TS, got shot N1
Stargate: played kinda scummy, got cleared via interactions with flipped scum, survived to endgame
OTG1: pretty much universally townread, had to replace out
Townsville: eh, Iso and some other people pretty much caught the entire scumteam while everyone else sort of waited for the game to be over
OTG2: also mostly universally townread, tinfoiled the correct scumteam but ended up mislynching someone else instead
---
Scum games:
Three Little Pigs: made it to D2 without being suspected because I tried to stay active and involved, then slipped up and was lynched
Trigger Happy: lol, somehow made it to D5, was mostly a scummy-questionmark-POE lynch. I was pretty lurky this game
---
Serial Killer
Ace Attorney: just improving for the sake of it. I townsided pretty hard
improving should be including
When he replaced in, he sounded incredibly townie to me. His mindset didn't seem like scum trying to salvage a dying spot, but like town attempting to salvage the game. That can be faked, sure, but it felt real.
One thing he did upon my request that I really appreciated was that he went through Dota's posts and actually analyzed them, where he could have said something along the lines of "I really don't know what he was thinking or doing, but I'm town."
In regards to his read on me: What I would have expected from scum!silver after coming in would be either a halfhearted defense of me for towncred once I flipped town, or letting me get lynched and not really taking much heat (if any) because he wasn't involved one way or another. Instead, he actually put time and effort into stopping the wagon against me, in way more than a "lemme pocket this townie" way.
How recent events have affected this read:
I think silver has been showing a lot of frustration in this MyLo scenario, which makes a whole lot of sense. If we are being honest, how many people have actually read his posts with an open mind to his alignment? While frustration in and of itself is NAI, the origination of this frustration feels incredibly townie. Right now, the town has a very real chance at losing, and you can see that in silver's posts as the number one mislynch target.
___________________________________________
I get it, this case is difficult for some people because of the scum!partner WIFOM argument. But I am town, and I very strongly believe that silver is too.
Shouldn't you be the 'number one myslynch target' given how many of us have either voted you or are willing to vote you first before Silver? DAE feel this is a slip?
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't feel like I'm at that high of risk of dying currently, multiple people have said I'm scum only if silver is actually scum.
Vote shadow
Let's see who else joins the merry bandwagon on the road to the end of times. You're my top scumread right now. If you flip town as well, tough ***** then, this game was a disaster anyway.
At least you're honest, I guess.
@Zen:
No, I don't think that was a slip. This game is balls though.
@shadow:
I think you're in bigger danger of being lynched than me, despite Eco's idea that my head is on the chopping block. I only know three players that want to lynch me but you're the default. Tom/Vaimes/Eco/Zen/Rodemy all want you dead, I believe.
Actually, when I reread I need to double check that from yesterDay. You're only alive now because Eco diverted the lynch to Mindreaver, so there should be some decent info there somewhere.
Would have been nice to flip at least one of the first three with that vig shot, but c'est la vie.
Re bolded: Why are you giving up?
Pretend you think I'm town for a moment and walk me through what on earth makes you see silver and tom as scum together?
pop bottles
silver tomorrow
more bottles
???????
At least I'm pretty sure there won't be a quick hammer because either Silver is scum or Tom + Zenzao are. I don't get why you guys want to just risk the game on Shadow without even a little bit of reevaluation. Well, unless you're scum of course, then it'd make sense.
theyre both scum
Vaimes
Zenzao
tom
Silver
shadow
Eco
Rod
zomg
I'm town, zomg is the Doc, and Zenzao is town.
tom
Silver
shadow
Eco
Rod
Three scum in five names. Not horrible, but I'd like to do better than that.
I am leaning town on Shock's slot, as well as on Rod.
tom
Silver
shadow
Boop. tom/Silver/shadow team. And even if I'm wrong on two of you, hey, there's still 100% one scum among the three of you. Silver and shadow say it's tom. tom says it's Silver and shadow. I have scumreads on all of you, so I guess it's my lucky day.
There is a chance you could sell me on a world where Eco or Rod are scum, but it'd have to be pretty strong. Otherwise, I'm going to continue pushing for you or Silver to die. I very much doubt that you are BOTH town.
"But Vaimes, you must be wrong on one of your townreads, because I'm town!" Yeah well boo ******* hoo, everyone is going to say that and it means nothing if you haven't been able to prove it by the time endgame rolls around. A lot of people want to lynch you -- why do you think that is? A lot of people want to lynch Silver -- why do you think that is? Almost no one wants to lynch me or Eco or Rod -- why do you think that is? I think out of all the lynch candidates, people are waffling on tom the most -- why do you think that is?
I don't really have a townread on tom, because his entire play this game has been "get Silver/shadow lynched!" And despite how strongly I'm scumreading them, I don't know if I'm leading town off a cliff and tom's just hitching along for the ride, or he's town and we're just thinking the same way about those slots. Because if I had gotten my way and lynched through Silver and shadow, that would give me a much better read on tom. As well as others who've pretty much waved Silver off as "he seems towny so must be town."
Dota and shadow had awful interactions with each other. Abysmal. Death was the only justifiable course of action. But then Silver replaced in, smiled a dazzling smile while pushing what was always bound to be an awful lynch on Shock, and in the process it's like everyone just forgot how scummy DoTA was. It's mind-boggling. I wish I'd been the ******* Vig so I could at least get some peace of mind on D2 instead of MyLo.
shadowlancerx - Rodemy, ZenzaoDLP, tomsloger
With 8 alive the threshold is 5.
Deadline is set for 2369 GMT-6 January 2nd.
The Family
I think shadow underestimated how many people think he is scum...
I like where this is going.
Vote Tom
Because Huntz pushed a bad case on him and people are literally just /barning it? Because I'm probably scum with shadow because he talked obliquely about DoTA and not to him... at the bottom of the first page of the game?
Because DoTA had one or two scummy reactions to things at the beginning of the game?
Both of these cases are literally jokes. No one can tell me exactly what makes me or shadow scum. You just keep saying we must be because we're in the PoE... But we're in the PoE because you've assumed we're scum together. Because the entire game has been focused on lynching me and shadow so no one has looked very hard at you/them yet? Because his scum buddies are being town read and don't actually want to lynch him because they'd rather just win the game than bus him for cred?
The answer is no, because it is MyLo and one more lynch is all scum needs. And you asking to put off this case until AFTER the lynch does not make me feel good about it. Not at all.
Fine, but if I die in the middle of me doing a bunch of work casing someone, I'm coming after you.
Probably not going to have something until the weekend when I can sit in front of my computer.
@Vaimes: Ignore Shadow. Would you accept a Tom lynch today?
By "ignore" I meant I don't care about whether you're interested or not in giving Shadow more time, not ignore him as a lynch prospect. I guess a better way to phrase it would have been do you particularly care which of your scum team you lynch?
What kind of backwards ******* pagentry is this?
I giggled
What could this mean?
1) He's mafia, and the scumteam is holding out hope that we'll get bored or paranoid and move the wagon onto a villager they can hammer.
2) He's town, and he's already being voted by 2/3 of the scumteam. The last mafia can't quickhammer for the win quite yet.
3) He's town, and the mafia have just been unable to coordinate being online at the same time to orchestrate the quickhammer.
4) He's town, at least two players on his wagon are town, and the mafia can hammer him, but are choosing not to.
I believe in 1!
If you believe in 2, you need to go back and see if 2/3 of Rod/Zenzao/tom makes sense as a team.
3 is ~possible, since scum very likely don't have Daychat. It'll be hard for all three of them to pile onto a towny already at L-3.
4 is slowrolling and dickish so I sicerely hope that isn't what's happening.
And I have no idea if I'm wrong about everything, so. Might as well push on with Silver and shadow dying.
Rod flirted with tom a lot and he'd probably be more self-conscious about it if they were buddies. There have also been times where Rod disagreed with tom's reads, and he seemed genuinely upset or confused.
I think this post also makes them unlikely to be knowingly aligned:
I don't think this is a fake interaction they decided to have for no reason, and then just...drop it. They didn't even need fake interactions, they had plenty of (mostly one-sided) flirty ones.
Rod/tom worlds: eliminated. What about Rod/Zen?
Also unlikely. Rod shifted his scumread focus onto Zen soon after he replaced in. When you have a scumbuddy whose slot is mostly void, you probably wouldn't immediately start pressuring the replacement. Draws unnecessary attention to 2/3 of your team.
Okay I'm getting bored of this, Rod is town. Proof:
This is not a scumpost. Full stop.
---
Possible scum voting on shadow have been reduced to Zenzao and tom.
But Zenzao is town, so lol. And tom might not even be scum, given the likelihood that I'm just a paranoid mess.
So. Theory that two scum are voting for shadow: scrapped. Chances of shadow just being scum: rising.
Did you just poe yourself into a scumslot?
What are you referring to specifically?
---
#throwbackthursday
Zen is town.
Tom could be town
I am town.
I forgot eco so...
Oops.
But that leaves silver and you from my perspective on what you said. See, i dont know if you are town or not, so if i go by your poe (assuming you also think eco is town)
You failed to mention silver and yourself soo..
Your poe from my perspective puts you and her in the scumslots. Unless you wanna say eco is the other one and not you.
shadow not being hammered is ???, but I didn't really think it was you and Eco together so it's not really an earth shattering revelation that, you know, it isn't.
But I don't know how far I can trust your meta read of Zen if that's really all you have on him. If you want me to believe he's town I need more than just your assertion that he's outside his scum range. Especially considering he's new to the site. I tried to dig up some of his games on DLP but I can't figure out how to iso him there so it's a bit of a hassle - I don't really want to wade through the full 70+ pages of HP Mafia he was in to get half a meta read.
Anyway. Yeah, shadow could be scum with tom. If shadow is scum he reverse pocketed me good, so lolme I guess.
But it would explain why tom always wanted me first since people only thought shadow was scum with me so my flip soft-clears him.
Problem is, I still don't really think tom on shadow is a bus. That's why I think it's more likely tom/zen on town!shadow.
I'm part way through my reread but it hasn't really changed how I feel about anything. I'll finish it up tomorrow probably and make a post, about the stuff that happened when Eco started the Mindreaver wagon if nothing else.
Four names. Three mafia.
:<
Im so tirrrrrrrrred.
No, i get it.
Still don't trust you, but i get it.
Bed. Bed is good. Bed is nice.
Bed is soft.
Gnght
His obsession with getting some content out of Eco (specifically about Zenzao himself) is also very unlikely to have been something scum would do.
Zenzao is town.
I don't know. Maybe I'm just tunneling. The Eco thing is a thing, I guess, but if it's not Zen it's still [tom/shadow] and between you, Eco, and Rodemy for the third. Problem is, I kind of don't think it's Eco because he's been pretty townie and I don't really think it's Rodemy for a host of reasons. Rodemy's not even really a credible scum buddy for shadow anyway.
So I guess it's most likely you, if it's not him? Which... sort of makes sense (even though I thought your play was wildly different from Trigger Happy). But if it's tom/you I actually think zen is a more likely third than shadow and tom/zen means shadow can be town and not be hammered. I think a long hard look at the stuff that happened around the Mindreaver wagon will help me figure out who's who, because some of the people that wanted shadow dead lynched Mindreaver instead and I'm hoping I can figure out if scum were saving him for toDay or if they were choosing a town lynch over a buddy.
I need to look at wagons still, too, but I suspect I'll just end up confirming my own bias and it won't actually help. Meh. I'll do it anyway because I like looking at wagons.
But not Zenzao. I've seen him play with Titus and MathBlade. He means it.
It's pretty obvious I consider 2 to be entirely viable.
I also notice you're not voting for Shadow despite your confidence. I don't actually want you to vote, but I'm having trouble working out why you're not.
That's interesting, because I thought Tom was just a PoE read. What do you have to be wrong about for Tom to be scum?
Wrong about Silver and/or shadow, for one. I think tom makes the most sense as scum with them due to wagon positions, 'cause I'm never going to catch tom on behavior.
Look at both EoD wagons.
D1
---
Shock (1): AG (#812)
DoTASilver (1): Seppel (#566)
shadow (3): Rod (#843), tom (#844), Vaimes (#848)
AG (7): Shock (#719), HuntMind (#769), DoTASilver (#776), zomg (#778), ClaraZen (#786), shadow (#831), KosaMete0r (#859)
---
D2
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shadowlancerx - tomsloger
Seppel - Mindreaver
tomsloger - shadowlancerx
Mindreaver - Ecophagy, Seppel, Silvercrys3467, Rodemy, ZenzaoDLP, zomgarcwind
Abstaining: Vaimes
---
I have mild reservations about you/Shock compared to my townreads on Rod and Zenzao, but zomg's softclear of you + Seppel's townread on you kind of outweighs that.
With my reads, there is one dark spot off the D1 wagon (tom), and I doubt the entire mafia team felt comfortable voting all together. Scum ping.
There are two dark spots on the main wagon. Buddies #2 and #3 on the bandwagon.
On the D2 wagon, it's smaller, and looks like there's only one scum voting and the two others are off in nowhereland.
I'm going to feel beyond stupid if I was right about there being three scum in the four names I listed and the first one we lynch is the townie. That's what's stopping me from voting.
I may just bite the bullet and vote soon-ish, or else I'm just going to drive myself crazy. I'll sleep on it.