MTG Salvation

Quote from D_V »

Did ANYONE get blocked tonight? I clearly did not I got off a kill.

What exactly are you hoping to get out of this question?

---

Cyan's turnarounds on Sir Chris and GJ are weirding me out, but I feel the exact same way w/r/t Seppel. Also want to look into Rhand and Meggido as my other non-townreads/unflipped players on the main wagons. Iso just plain Feels Off, and I don't know if it's due to IRL or just because he seems visibly less driven to kill scum than in Stargate, but the difference is pretty stark. :/ And I still don't trust Sir Chris as far as I can throw him, but I still need to sit down and skim the whatever-they-were towngames he mentioned.

What exactly are you hoping to get out of this question?

Confirmation of at least one role block. If not two leads to suspicion about lying.

Vote Count 1.12
Solitary Confinement - Darkness

[7] Gentleman Johnny - Cyan, tomsloger, Wheat_Grinder, Rhand, Anaklusmos, Megiddo, Necarg
[6] Megiddo - TappingStones, CitricBase, Seppel, Anaklusmos, Vaimes, Matowar77
[6] Wheat_Grinder - Huntzilla, TappingStones, Seppel, Vaimes, Gentleman Johnny, Matowar77

---

Vote Count 1.19
Reminiscence - I Blame You

[7] Megiddo - TappingStones, CitricBase, Seppel, Anaklusmos, Matowar77, Cyan, Necarg

---

Vote Count 2.02
Investigation ~ Opening 2013

[7] Gentleman Johnny - Cyan, Rhand, Iso, Matowar77, Anaklusmos, Gentleman Johnny, Ghosting

---

Vote Count 2.07
Countdown to the Future

[7] Matowar77 - TappingStones, Huntzilla, Cyan, Gentleman Johnny, Ghosting, DoTArchon, Anaklusmos
[7] Huntzilla - Rhand, Matowar77, TappingStones, Seppel, Anaklusmos, DoTArchon, Ghosting

---

Yeah, actually, I think I'm pretty okay with asking my target to vig Seppel. He's a big red flag on the Megido and WG wagons in 1.12 and the Megiddo wagon in 1.19 (I tried to stick with wagons with 7+ people on them but figured the two with 6 were close enough, as they both have a lot of flipped town /or/ strong townreads from my POV).

Quote from D_V »

What exactly are you hoping to get out of this question?

Confirmation of at least one role block. If not two leads to suspicion about lying.

Eh, it initially came off as really rolefish-y.

I voted for Citric for jury.

Will have more time tonight

Hi! I have things to post but they're in Notepad so I will not be gracing tou guys with my glorious posting until tonight.

Quote from DV »

Because I decided to double down on you and chris? Like, believe you guys are town. I'm all in babby, I should never have doubted myself I found myself doubting my mato arguments because of Tom and then was proven right on that so, I'm sticking to my guns, if you or SC is scum you've played well imo. I'd have shot SC if I was going that route not you anyways though.

The only reason, I'm not sold on Seppel is because he came the conclusion that the Mafia have a jury "Manipulator" first, and then was echoed by others. I think the mafia may or may not have that role.

I am not following your mindset dude. You went from:

Quote from DV »

GJ's the more correct lynch I'm out bois.

Tom's so scum tastic. Now he's backing out of the GJ lynch. I'm leaving my vote here. Meg's its up to you but I wouldn't trust Tom anymore.

all the way to:

I almost killed SC, but decided to double down on the GJ/SC group. I'm going to claim I am right on that and that obv I was wrong on the other part.

If matowar flipped scum I could follow this. The tom kill might have made less, but you not shooting me in the face would. With mato flipping town, how is your first thought "GJ is probably scum"? I got the impression you were thinking tom/GJ scum team, especially with your response to tom "backing off the GJ lynch". If you were wrong, my role had the lowest impact, why gamble on tom?

If, I am scum and You and SC are town you gonna have to explain to me why a scum DV would take a free kill on SC and use it on Tom.

I was really starting to doubt myself on the Mato lynch because of Tom. After, I saw I was right I went back to before Tom influenced me and stuck with those reads, because I felt much more confident on those reads than the ones that had developed day 2. And concluded Tom was scum for pushing bad reads/bad cases.

Your ability has also been proven I am very inclined to believe you right now.

@DV: did you really doubt GJ's ability? Like you thought he would claim something easily provable and think to get away with not proving it?
And would scum!you really kill a town!Sir Chris and have the balls to claim that the next Day?

@Vaimes: why DV?

I'm assuming the full question is "why did you give DV a vigshot?"

Probably because I was townreading him at the time.

@DV: did you really doubt GJ's ability? Like you thought he would claim something easily provable and think to get away with not proving it?
And would scum!you really kill a town!Sir Chris and have the balls to claim that the next Day?

If he was given the Vig shot, what choice would he really have? DV killing Tom is a null tell(it wasn't a great choice, because Tom was very obviously town, but that's another story). If he's scum, he(or someone on his team) is going to recognize that Tom is the person that makes the most sense for Town-DV to kill, after yesterday.

I hate this entire line of attack from GJ.

Quote from Cyan »

@DV: did you really doubt GJ's ability? Like you thought he would claim something easily provable and think to get away with not proving it?
And would scum!you really kill a town!Sir Chris and have the balls to claim that the next Day?

If he was given the Vig shot, what choice would he really have? DV killing Tom is a null tell(it wasn't a great choice, because Tom was very obviously town, but that's another story). If he's scum, he(or someone on his team) is going to recognize that Tom is the person that makes the most sense for Town-DV to kill, after yesterday.

I hate this entire line of attack from GJ.

But not rhand?

Rhand was the second person on Gj's wagon yesterday, but he suddenly asks me why I doubted GJ's claim?

What?

You're god damn right I would Rhand. I'd be like I didn't Trust Sir Chris and thought he was lying about his neighborizer with GJ. That simple. Actually that's why town me was going to kill him, but I said no I trust this I'm doubling down, that and I also figured that Sir Chris is a scum kill target if town and so I would be wasting a kill if he actually is town.

Why did you vote GJ if you didn't doubt his claim?

Oh and at this point I'm simply waiting on Iso's post before WG gets to join the fun.

Eh wait... are you saying that having two town deaths in one Night is better than just one? Because you just said that.
And I've said this before: GJ's role is perfect for scum to have because it activates during Day, freeing him up to do something else at Night.

@Vaimes: was he your biggest town read? Why?

Same as Anak: he was enthusiastically open about his role, which I thought was towny at the time.

Quote from Rhand »

Eh wait... are you saying that having two town deaths in one Night is better than just one? Because you just said that.
And I've said this before: GJ's role is perfect for scum to have because it activates during Day, freeing him up to do something else at Night.

@Vaimes: was he your biggest town read? Why?

\

Sort of. I just meant not picking targets the scum would pick?

Like if I use my ability to kill someone who is town who the scum was going to kill I've effectively wasted a valuable tool A) Because I targeted a town member for a kill, but B) because they were dead anyways. After that jury with Tom, where I kind of destroyed every point he had and then he still kept going wit his original direction, I just felt that he was scum. Because sometimes, he would go "Yeah you are right", and then just repeat his bad point again and stay on the same path. I'll put it this way, I still don't know what Tom's case for Mato being scum was other than him lying about his experience and I proved that part wrong so heavily it baffles me that he would continue that vote.

On the GJ side of things IDK. If megs is scum then I think GJ is scum. Not certain what that says about SC even though I would lean that way. I need to go reread that end part of the trial when I was gone. I had an overall good feeling about Megs, but I'm not certain. That's a good point about his ability. I read it yesterday, but like it didn't click somehow I figured mod confirmed ability = town, when its something like that. I'm really doubting myself this game, but luckily I have W_G to lean on as a crutch for the day.

Quote from Rhand »

Eh wait... are you saying that having two town deaths in one Night is better than just one? Because you just said that.
And I've said this before: GJ's role is perfect for scum to have because it activates during Day, freeing him up to do something else at Night.

@Vaimes: was he your biggest town read? Why?

Hmm, this is a really weird justification for GJ's role. It feels like a 'trying to make an excuse to justify something that I know as a fact(GJ's alignment). If GJ is scum, I expect Rhand to also be scum based on this.

Also, the first line was a pretty big misrep.

Vote Rhand

@GJ: What was your reasoning for the questions you asked? What were you hoping to learn?

Yo, Wheat I have one question for you who did you vote for jury the night you died?

Ohhh spooky ghost time everyone.

Quote from Cyan »

Quote from Rhand »

Eh wait... are you saying that having two town deaths in one Night is better than just one? Because you just said that.
And I've said this before: GJ's role is perfect for scum to have because it activates during Day, freeing him up to do something else at Night.

@Vaimes: was he your biggest town read? Why?

Hmm, this is a really weird justification for GJ's role. It feels like a 'trying to make an excuse to justify something that I know as a fact(GJ's alignment). If GJ is scum, I expect Rhand to also be scum based on this.

Also, the first line was a pretty big misrep.

Vote Rhand

Why is that a weird justification? It makes total sense to me

The DV thing is how I read his post. Now that he explained, I get where he's coming from.

I LIVE

I DIE

I LIVE AGAIN ON THE ATTORNEY ROAD

I haven't been following the game because I figured D_V would overwrite the Wheat rune in his spirit Bottle.

I am actually really surprised that TS was town and goddamn if that's how he acts as town I never want to play with him again.

Lynching necarg was a really stupid decision because he obviously had no malicious intent

We are really getting shat on right now

also what the **** johnny is still alive

Thus ends the part where Wheat *****es

It's 1AM so I'm not rereading until tomorrow. My initial thought is that Iso is probably scum because of how he handled being on the jury

If so, Chris is his buddy because for god's sake neither one was posting in the chat.

Dota Archon is about 50/50 in that case. I could see it go either way.\

But that's all based on day 1 stuff and it's day 3

oh yeah and i can't finger prince because he's dead

see you all tomorrow

So it turns out my laptop crashed overnight and thus I do not have my stuff. Oh well, I remember my most important thing from it, and the rest can come as I read. Forewarning: If anything I say doesn't make sense, it's probably because of the alcohol.

-

@tom: My lament at having too many scum reads meant that the game probably isn't going to be as easy as I initially thought it was, which is obviously not something to celebrate. It was also an outward note to myself that I might need to reconsider the gamestate.

-

So even though I'm townreading GJ to death for a myriad of reasons, I have accepted the fact that he will likely be on trial again and only implore you guys to also put Chris up there with him.

On that note, Vote Chris. I'm not currently confident enough in my other non-jury scumreads to push any of them to the bench aside from D_V, who I'm mostly just "not sure this guy is town" on.

So also Vote D_V.

The other guy I'm leaning on toDay is Ghosting. I was going to question Vaimes's pseudo-CC of Matowar but I guess Inventor with a Vig Shot gift seems legit.

-

@D_V: I don't understand. You think that because TS denied someone getting on jury that that makes DoT and I town, somehow? Please explain.

Also, I think that the more likely scenario here is that Chris can block the jury the Night he's on jury, and blocked both DoT and myself.

-

Cyan (RE: #2083)

Also, did everything work out last Night?

I think I agree with you RE: the jury rigging. Rhand's response doesn't seem weird so much as calculated. But he hasn't really been pinging me this game; do you have any other reason to think he's scum?

-

@Vaimes: I mean, I've been trying to rally people to lynch Chris for 2 Days, now, and no one's really put the vitriol into it that I have, so I'm just sort of waiting for everyone to catch on and follow suit like in Stargate.

Nope.

Vote Iso
Vote Sir Chris

You can't honestly look at your own posts and call them "rallying." You've been doing some combination of softballing him and just sort of talking at his face. You have one post where you're attacking him, and a bunch of "people should be voting for Chris" posts; I'd maybe believe you were bussing, but as it stands, I don't see it as you genuinely trying to get him lynched at all. Not after the way you ripped him to shreds in Stargate.

Also like how your scumread on Citrus just up and poofed out of existence.

Like, I'm remembering how /everyone/ doubted you last game and we spent what felt like months arguing about whether or not you were scum. I believed you were town that entire time because you were absolutely genuine about your cases and pushes, but at this point I don't believe for a second that you believe in your scumreads.

oh awkward Citrus is on Jury

you can ignore that last point, though I still think it's weird that you've barely mentioned him since the "if I had 600 votes I'd put them all on you" comment :I

By the way Iso's weakness confuses me here. He 'accepts GJ' will be part of the trial. Iso is remarkably forceful but then just concedes one of the three spots. How weird. Fight for your town reads, for god's sake.

Anyway feel free to put me on trial, it will be fun. BTW, my friend has made it out of her dark place and was really grateful that I was there for her so my mood has swung from deeply sad and frustrated to exceptionally pleased and full of love because that ******* idiot ex of hers didn't break her. So once I am done being busy this weekend I am sure people will be happy with my attitude if nothing else!

Quote from Vaimes »

Nope.

Vote Iso
Vote Sir Chris

You can't honestly look at your own posts and call them "rallying." You've been doing some combination of softballing him and just sort of talking at his face. You have one post where you're attacking him, and a bunch of "people should be voting for Chris" posts; I'd maybe believe you were bussing, but as it stands, I don't see it as you genuinely trying to get him lynched at all. Not after the way you ripped him to shreds in Stargate.

Also like how your scumread on Citrus just up and poofed out of existence.

Chris and Citrus have literally been non-entities for half the game. I can't MAKE them post, Vaimes, which means all I can do is refer to the posts that already exist. You know I hate repeating myself, and without new content, that means all I can do is say "hey lynch these guys look how scummy they've been." Also, Citric is on Jury, so...duh?

Quote from Vaimes »

oh awkward Citrus is on Jury

you can ignore that last point, though I still think it's weird that you've barely mentioned him since the "if I had 600 votes I'd put them all on you" comment :I

Uh, yeah, like I said - I can't force him to post.

Quote from Sir Chris »

By the way Iso's weakness confuses me here. He 'accepts GJ' will be part of the trial. Iso is remarkably forceful but then just concedes one of the three spots. How weird. Fight for your town reads, for god's sake.

Anyway feel free to put me on trial, it will be fun. BTW, my friend has made it out of her dark place and was really grateful that I was there for her so my mood has swung from deeply sad and frustrated to exceptionally pleased and full of love because that ******* idiot ex of hers didn't break her. So once I am done being busy this weekend I am sure people will be happy with my attitude if nothing else!

Well, with Seppel on jury, I believe there's a reasonable chance that you'll get lynched toDay, so that's a hope I have driving me to continue to push for your demise. I've pointed out that the fact that you're scum makes GJ town based on the interactions and everyone's response has pretty much literally been "herf derf nop", so your smearing can go to hell and die.

What does their posting frequency have to do with me believing your conviction is impotent and probably fake?

Quote from Vaimes »

at this point I don't believe for a second that you believe in your scumreads.

Sir Chris, what's the longest string of scumgames you've had in a row?

Asking for a friend.

No relevant night results to report to us, WG? :sad:

Nope.

Vote Iso
Vote Sir Chris

You can't honestly look at your own posts and call them "rallying." You've been doing some combination of softballing him and just sort of talking at his face. You have one post where you're attacking him, and a bunch of "people should be voting for Chris" posts; I'd maybe believe you were bussing, but as it stands, I don't see it as you genuinely trying to get him lynched at all. Not after the way you ripped him to shreds in Stargate.

Can you explain how this all leads to you voting for SC in addition to Iso?

Anyway, I agree with voting Iso, for reasons stated. Vote Iso

Chris and Citrus have literally been non-entities for half the game. I can't MAKE them post, Vaimes, which means all I can do is refer to the posts that already exist. You know I hate repeating myself, and without new content, that means all I can do is say "hey lynch these guys look how scummy they've been." Also, Citric is on Jury, so...duh?

You've been just as much of a non-entity. If you are town anyway, how does this possibility not extend to other players?

Quote from Vaimes »

What does their posting frequency have to do with me believing your conviction is impotent and probably fake?

Quote from Vaimes »

at this point I don't believe for a second that you believe in your scumreads.

I guess I just refuse to believe that you actually think that? I mean, I think I would know better than you what I think and believe in a Mafia game; feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote from Cyan »

Chris and Citrus have literally been non-entities for half the game. I can't MAKE them post, Vaimes, which means all I can do is refer to the posts that already exist. You know I hate repeating myself, and without new content, that means all I can do is say "hey lynch these guys look how scummy they've been." Also, Citric is on Jury, so...duh?

You've been just as much of a non-entity. If you are town anyway, how does this possibility not extend to other players?

My level of activity has literally no bearing on this argument. Like...what are you even asking, here? My argument isn't "I've not been posting as much and that still makes me town", nor is it anything remotely resembling alignment indication for anyone involved. If you actually read the context of the statement, it's clear that I'm addressing Vaimes's "why aren't you pushing for your scumreads harder?" approach to my play this game.

Also, you didn't answer my question.

Quote from Cyan »

Can you explain how this all leads to you voting for SC in addition to Iso?

Quote from Vaimes »

I'd maybe believe you were bussing

---

Quote from Iso »

I guess I just refuse to believe that you actually think that? I mean, I think I would know better than you what I think and believe in a Mafia game; feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Very coy.

Quote from Iso »

Anyway, yeah, I want to believe GJ is town, but I can't in good faith accept that he lied about his role AND completely missed how it worked.

Vote Gentleman Johnny

I don't believe Iso believes this.

Quote from Iso »

Come to think of it, I didn't really like DoT in the jury QT all that much, either.

Let's hang this one, too.

I KNOW Iso doesn't believe this.

God GJ is so scum

Chris' 1249 is really *****ty and uncharacteristic of him

Iso doesn't believe anything he's saying this is actually amazing.

Citric is refreshingly town.

Cyan is the greatest person on the planet this game as far as I'm concerned.

Quote from Ghosting »

I voted for Wheat to be on jury, confident he was town after his claim and following behaviour, and to test it.

This is blatantly the wrong move and if you were just about anyone besides Ghosting I'd say you're scum for it. But, you are Ghosting so I'm not sure it points to anything much at all.

Ghosting's next few posts also go either way.

Quote from Gentleman Johnny »

Really? You don't think there is a wee bit weird that one of the earliest voices for calling me scum happened to be one of the next wagons?

I FIND IT WEIRD

But the analysis around it does make me consider rethinking GJ.

As I consider it a bit more, I'm not convince one way or another. GJ is playing very strangely. It's like he's doing drunken style martial arts.

I'm going to take this reread in a lot of small chunks so I'll be back later with more. This is to the end of page 26.

Quote from Cyan »

No relevant night results to report to us, WG? :sad:

Because I've been dead, I haven't gotten any fingerprints alas.

I did ask Proph for the prints from my own corpse as a joke but he just posted an entertaining gif of a girl swinging in for an attack only to get stomped by her target on the way in.

Ah, I figured you would get results from N1, guess I didn't understand the timing. Sucks.

Interested in hearing what else you have to say re: GJ, Iso, etc. Also Seppel, when you get to that part.

Quote from Vaimes »

Sir Chris, what's the longest string of scumgames you've had in a row?

Asking for a friend.

Probably the 5 in a row I just got done with.

Okay so sorry, I've been a bad player and I apologize for that. I don't apologize for a single bad word I said about the skill of this game though, just that I helped to contribute it. Let's play real mafia and not this trash that has put us so far behind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K41kIS_Wl94

So our dead town players are the following:

Necarg, lynched
Wheat_Grinder, killed
Mato, lynched
Tom, killed by admission
TS, killed

1. Megiddo
2. Rhand
4. Wheat_Grinder (D_V)
5. DoTArchon
6. Sir Chris
7. Vaimes
10. Ghosting
11. CitricBase
12. Huntzilla r. KoolKoal
13. Seppel
15. Gentleman Johnny
16. Anaklusmos
17. Cyan
18. Iso

Iso is someone I am trying to turn over my mind still because he is puzzling me badly. His opening (actual) post is something that makes a lot of sense from a town iso but I am unsure if he has really followed through:

I'm a pretty reckless player in general. But I get results. I'd like to be on the jury.

I guess the biggest problem I have with this statement is it is something I can usually agree with but so far it has been remarkably untrue. Iso calls this a smear, which admittedly does feel like the type of thing a town iso would consider me just pointing out his tragic lack of ability to influence this game, but Iso has done absolutely nothing to help town this game or to enforce what he claims his will to be. He killed town jury 1, he has failed to get the job done in regards to convincing people about me, and he appears ready to simply concede GJ instead of fighting for it. Iso is a player who has mixed results but it is weird to see him so ineffective this game. He has done nothing to help this game, even if it is only pushing his will like any town player should. That's one of my tests when trying to go after a good player: are they being good? I can't do that wholly with Iso because as I've mentioned I have lackluster overall respect for him, but I am interested in what others think of Iso's lack of influence and effectiveness. Right now, because of my generally low respect for his town game, I think I am leaning town. He has had some poor responses to me that I think are flawed enough to be town. I can almost visualize the blood gushing from the wound I have delivered to his pride and how he desperately tries to stop it. I don't think a scum Iso's pride is wounded so severely if he is in control of the game like he would be.

I like KoolKoal's early logic about jury selection and I liked the flaws in Hunt's argument against me. The raw passion. It felt pure. I didn't need anything to push Hunt into the town power but KK's sound logic just backs that strong feeling up, never hurts to have more data points. So I think Hunt is fine as well.

I am amused that Bumper got his wish from page one of this topic about being jury day 2. Good for you, Bumper.


There is going to come a day where Tom doesn't just think I am scum for everything forever. I really just rub that guy the wrong way. He's going to be a pain to read because his text clashes with the style I have the forum, and honestly I am unsure how much I can gather from Tom's game because his conclusions tend to be shaky. Probably best to see how people reacted to Tom rather than reading into him much.

I like post 18 from Iso because of his caution towards me and cyan being on the same jury if I am scum. It feels very natural. Yeah not interested in Iso at all, I just wish he'd play better.

Also I shouldn't be mean to the dead, but Ema Skye being Wheat's favorite character makes me a little sad. Although I guess he isn't actually dead anymore, well no he IS dead but...well, whatever.

While I am on page 1, let's discuss my read of GJ. I am hopeful I can convey these thoughts without quotes, because I don't have that option. I've kind of left GJ alone in our chat for long stretches and you know what is amazing? He reaches out to me a lot discussing the game. That's a super massive town tell. It wouldn't have been very hard to, at any point, use my idleness in our neighbor chat against me because it is super hard on scum to fight a multi front war. Instead GJ chooses to engage and his thoughts in the jury QT come off as very genuine and he is very emotive in there with me about expressing displeasure and the way he views the game matches up with a town member who thinks they are talking to another town member. I get frustrated with you guys sometimes when you go “oh we're just SUPPOSED to believe your word?” I … like to operate in the realm of probabilities and proven track records. If you think I am scum, fine, don't take my word for anything, but if you think I am town and tell me I don't have a proven track record of finding things that make people town, I would say the facts of my career here do not bear out your interpretation of my ability to cold read town members. It's not an ego play. If someone had my same track record I would listen to them if I thought they were town. I listen to people all the time about certain tells and certain people because of track records. If you think I am town, if you know about my history at all, it shouldn't be a leap to think that putting me alone in a room with someone isn't a safe place for that person to be scum. It's not about me thinking I am infallible, but I wouldn't come into this topic and assure people unless I was very confident. I honestly feel if I pass the town/scum barrier in your eyes I have EARNED the trust to read someone as town. If you don't think so, please point out examples where I was burned badly. The only time I can think is my first time playing with Pizza in FF last year, and he won an award for that performance. I am sure I've missed a couple of others, but I think I am good here and I think I can let my record speak for itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kz6hNDlEEg

Iso says Vaimes is his scumbuddy. They are not scumbuddies. I already figured this because I am town reading Iso, but just to jot that down for everyone else if that combo gets brought up because I mean really now.

Post 38 by Vaimes flags me and I need to remember to see where the conversation with Wheat went. He was asked how many games had he played in, he responds with:

At least five? WitchHunt, Bravely Default, Mafia vs. Wolves, Shia LaBeouf, and Stargate. Can't remember if there are others.

How many games have you played? How would you describe your playstyle?

Psychopaths like to mirror behavior to appear normal, so I find it weird he shoots Wheat's question back at him. I just... sense something off here. It immediately bugs me. I am going to keep my eyes peeled for Wheat's response and what Vaimes has to say about it.

Poor Wheat, dude just thought I was genuine and I went all paranoid on him. I'm sorry Wheat, I love ya buddy. Actually though I don't blame me there, but I am happy that maybe Wheat is learning to cold read me a little bit better than most. Or it was just luck, but you know either way.


Rofl. “That's fair.” I should have stopped suspecting Wheat right there on principle alone. That is amazing.

So anyway back to Vaimes: he liked my chill vibes (oops, that didn't last) but interestingly he did not follow up on his questions to Wheat at all. I would have thought a play style inquiry would have at least been worth a mention but apparently not. Again, that doesn't sit well with me. He does have the awareness to ask about Wheat's pictures he uses, so it isn't like he forgot about Wheat.


Okay quickly scrolled page 2 and yeah, Vaimes doesn't seem to actually care about Wheat's response to his questions unless it was brought up much later. That's a scum trait for sure.

Page 2 thoughts later.

Are you planning on wallposting every single page? Because that already sounds like busywork.

Quote from "Sir Chris" »

I guess the biggest problem I have with this statement is it is something I can usually agree with but so far it has been remarkably untrue. Iso calls this a smear, which admittedly does feel like the type of thing a town iso would consider me just pointing out his tragic lack of ability to influence this game, but Iso has done absolutely nothing to help town this game or to enforce what he claims his will to be. He killed town jury 1, he has failed to get the job done in regards to convincing people about me, and he appears ready to simply concede GJ instead of fighting for it. Iso is a player who has mixed results but it is weird to see him so ineffective this game. He has done nothing to help this game, even if it is only pushing his will like any town player should. That's one of my tests when trying to go after a good player: are they being good? I can't do that wholly with Iso because as I've mentioned I have lackluster overall respect for him, but I am interested in what others think of Iso's lack of influence and effectiveness. Right now, because of my generally low respect for his town game, I think I am leaning town. He has had some poor responses to me that I think are flawed enough to be town. I can almost visualize the blood gushing from the wound I have delivered to his pride and how he desperately tries to stop it. I don't think a scum Iso's pride is wounded so severely if he is in control of the game like he would be.

...is this a "he's playing too badly to be scum" read? Like you list off a bunch of negative things about a guy who literally caught the ENTIRE scumteam on Day 1 not that long ago, and give him a townread for it. What.

Quote from "Sir Chris" »

There is going to come a day where Tom doesn't just think I am scum for everything forever. I really just rub that guy the wrong way. He's going to be a pain to read because his text clashes with the style I have the forum, and honestly I am unsure how much I can gather from Tom's game because his conclusions tend to be shaky. Probably best to see how people reacted to Tom rather than reading into him much.

As much as I miss tom, please don't waste your time trying to get a read on the dead.

Quote from "Sir Chris" »

While I am on page 1, let's discuss my read of GJ. I am hopeful I can convey these thoughts without quotes, because I don't have that option. I've kind of left GJ alone in our chat for long stretches and you know what is amazing? He reaches out to me a lot discussing the game. That's a super massive town tell. It wouldn't have been very hard to, at any point, use my idleness in our neighbor chat against me because it is super hard on scum to fight a multi front war. Instead GJ chooses to engage and his thoughts in the jury QT come off as very genuine and he is very emotive in there with me about expressing displeasure and the way he views the game matches up with a town member who thinks they are talking to another town member. I get frustrated with you guys sometimes when you go “oh we're just SUPPOSED to believe your word?” I … like to operate in the realm of probabilities and proven track records. If you think I am scum, fine, don't take my word for anything, but if you think I am town and tell me I don't have a proven track record of finding things that make people town, I would say the facts of my career here do not bear out your interpretation of my ability to cold read town members. It's not an ego play. If someone had my same track record I would listen to them if I thought they were town. I listen to people all the time about certain tells and certain people because of track records. If you think I am town, if you know about my history at all, it shouldn't be a leap to think that putting me alone in a room with someone isn't a safe place for that person to be scum. It's not about me thinking I am infallible, but I wouldn't come into this topic and assure people unless I was very confident. I honestly feel if I pass the town/scum barrier in your eyes I have EARNED the trust to read someone as town. If you don't think so, please point out examples where I was burned badly. The only time I can think is my first time playing with Pizza in FF last year, and he won an award for that performance. I am sure I've missed a couple of others, but I think I am good here and I think I can let my record speak for itself.

Okay, so you started out talking about GJ, and then the focus shifted and you ended this paragraph by by talking about /yourself/. Like literally more than half of this paragraph isn't even about GJ himself, it's about why you deserve to be trusted.

You know how I feel about your wallposts that deviate from the claimed focus.

Quote from "Sir Chris" »

So anyway back to Vaimes: he liked my chill vibes (oops, that didn't last) but interestingly he did not follow up on his questions to Wheat at all. I would have thought a play style inquiry would have at least been worth a mention but apparently not. Again, that doesn't sit well with me. He does have the awareness to ask about Wheat's pictures he uses, so it isn't like he forgot about Wheat.

I don't feel the need follow up on every single question I ask. Especially pre-game-ish questions.

Quote from "Sir Chris" »

Okay quickly scrolled page 2 and yeah, Vaimes doesn't seem to actually care about Wheat's response to his questions unless it was brought up much later. That's a scum trait for sure.

Cool.

##vote: Vaimes

Yeah he's obvious now.

More later.

Also:

1) Not a bad read, a genuine read. Players often show themselves not by being right or wrong, but how. Also he nailed the scum team as not town, btw.
2) Trying to understand others through Tom, not Tom himself
3) Why I deserve to be trusted if you already think I am town, which is key to GJ. If you don't trust me then what I say about GJ in a private conversation has no merit. It's important
4) excuse.

Quote from Sir Chris »

Also:

1) Not a bad read, a genuine read. Players often show themselves not by being right or wrong, but how. Also he nailed the scum team as not town, btw.
2) Trying to understand others through Tom, not Tom himself
3) Why I deserve to be trusted if you already think I am town, which is key to GJ. If you don't trust me then what I say about GJ in a private conversation has no merit. It's important
4) excuse.

1. That doesn't matter. He was just as uninformed as the rest of the town.
2. Okay?
3. If you say so.
4. You wish.

You've barely paid attention to me all game, and now that I've proposed you and Iso could be scum together, you vote me while citing something I do that isn't alignment indicative and give an incredibly weak townread on Iso. I see you, Felicia.

I don't care about anything you say, sorry. Good luck.

:I

well okay then

I think I'm just going to politely ask my target to vig you instead of Seppel.

You can do whatever makes you happy. I mean, your posts are just... not sound play. You don't seem to have any comprehension of the facets of mafia I am discussing to the point that I think you're just going through the motions as scum. I feel no genuineness to your posts at all.