i was actually thinking the double voter was cyan for awhile there. his vote on tordeck, "ambassadors" on iso. made perfect sense.
but that seems pretty broken in conjunction with vig
Okay, the other game is over I assume we can have a calm discussion about why I am town/scum now!
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is ~about where I'm at. I focused more on finding townreads. Ordering of the leftovers is mostly irrelevant.
I really don't think Iso is scum, which is problematic because I think I disagree with literally all of his scumreads. In addition, a lot of players with much more experience with him have spent a good chunk of the game claiming that this isn't town!Iso. But like? I absolutely believe he believes tom is scum. Maybe I'm just a sucker for total conviction, but like. /I/ think it's real. Anyway, he's probably dying, so whatever, I hope his flip shatters the earth and breaks the game open.
Hm.
If anyone wants me to elaborate on a read, I'll do so tomorrow. My head is pulsing.
I explained this earlier. The second vote is listed as 'Ambassadors'. Given the flavor of this game, that is extremely likely to be a town role.
And we know that Tordeck is one of 3 people that could be the Double Voter, because of the Vote Count that revealed this information. In it, Tordeck, Sir Chris, Tapping Stones, and 'Ambassadors' were listed as voting for Iso. So one of those 3 is the Double Voter. Unless the Double Voter is some incredibly awkward mechanism where the person secretly PMs the Mod with their vote. But this is just insanely unlikely. It stands to reason that one of these 3 is the double voter.
I'm not really holding it against you that you didn't know this. I guess you're just not caught up. I forget that people just don't read the thread all of the time, and then comment on things as they go along.
But while you're here, let's take a look at your posts.
Hi everyone!
I have a huge towncrush on Cyan and I'm diggin' the Rhand vote.
Vote: Rhand
I also think Iso is town and am interested in seeing why he thinks tom is scum, 'cause I'm not feeling it.
Sir Chris should put his scumhunting pants on. I want him to reign holy terror on his scumspects and/or die (not) trying.
Quote from prowlingpengolin »
]I'm getting chills.
Oddly enough, I feel the same.
fake edit:
Quote from Cyan »
Interesting. This feels like a really strong + town post for Nacho. Enough so that I'm willing to put my Rhand vote aside and see if he was just being dumb and Unvote, Vote Iso instead. Especially since obv-town Chris is also voting Iso, I believe.
Okay, towncrush mildly rescinded.
Walk me through the underlined.
So you immediately barn my Rhand vote, but you don't explain why. Interesting that Plowshares took all of the flack in the world for doing this, but no one ever looked at you twice for it. I supposed because you were actually posting.
You also called Iso town. Again without saying why. And you stated that you disagreed with his Tom assessment. Again without stating why. A pattern is pretty quickly developing here.
Oh, and you vaguely barn a statement that pengo made that was..vague to begin with.
Then you want to know why I liked Nacho. Apparently it's okay for you to have a 'towncrush' on me, but not for me to feel strongly about Nacho and Sir Chris. Duly noted. Moving on.
Later, Voxx asks you if you are Mafia. Your answer is.
I am not mafia. You should trust that implicitly.
This honestly seems like too much of an answer to me, oddly enough. Interesting.
So...Nacho went after someone who /isn't/ an easy target, and you think that's +town. Okay. I can agree with that in a vacuum. But it's one post, and I think it's weird to hand out a strong townread for something that is, frankly, super easy. It'd be a different story if Nacho had been pressuring Iso for several pages or something, but. The game's barely started.
It's nice that you think you can read Sir Chris and all, but I don't want Sir Chris to get an easy pass. Or anyone, for that matter, but especially people whom I see as difficult lynches because they're star players.
Fair enough on the amount of Rhand suspicion so early.
I really dislike this post. I get that you are trying to 'keep people level headed', or that's what you want people to think but..the tone comes across to me as you just wanting to sow mistrust. And that is strictly scum territory. Especially for, again, someone that expressed a very early 'towncrush' on me. I think that this is a pretty glaring double standard on your part.
I was just going to get to that, because I remembered Nacho also asked me for my Iso read.
I, uh. Thought he claimed a town PR.
I don't know what to make of this because like..Iso DID basically claim a town PR, more or less..indirectly. So why is Vaimes not sure here?
Yeah, I keep rereading Iso's posts and I can't fathom him going after tom like this as scum. Someone should walk me through what Iso stands to gain as scum and going after tom, of all people.
On the other hand, I think all the people voting for him are town + Seppel? Whee. I'll look into that again Later.
I could see newbscum falling into the scumread-the-new-person trap, but. Yeah.
Seems like it could be a town post, depending on whether or not he actually goes back to figure this out.
Did you miss the part where Seppel claimed Neutral, or?
TappingStones feels like he's trying to UTR.
Unvote
Vote: TappingStones
I will leave my vote on him literally until he dies if his response to this is more than 50% snark.
Vote is pretty underwhelming.
And now we're caught up. Vaimes did ultimately commit to say that he doesn't think Iso is scum, but..also said that he disagrees with all of Iso's reads so..lol? And that he doesn't believe Iso that he is immune to my daykill? I don't really get it.
I don't know what to make of all of this, but, I'm still pretty unimpressed with Vaimes right now.
Okay I'll be blunt: Cyan, you just got out of a game where I was let's call it 'most unkind' to you as scum, what has given you the confidence to walk into this game and say 'I can read Sir Chris better than all of you *****es!"
Because I held off before due to the game being on going, but wtf explain.
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Okay, the other game is over I assume we can have a calm discussion about why I am town/scum now!
Oh did you finally win?
Now I can talk. ******* finally. I caught scum Chris after one post in that game. One. One ******* Post. Granted, eventually I got distracted by Iso's stupid mass claim that made it seem like Iso had to be scum because the town had a Bodyguard, Vig, Cop(me) and Iso(Redirector), and Chris was able to level his play out and I never looked back and just let him play the 'wah I ****ed up woe is me card' and then play nice with me and coast his way to victory. but the point stands that I realized instantly in the Invitational that Chris was scum. And his behavior in this game already has been literally NOTHING like it was in that game. Holy ***** it literally could not be more different. He has been snarky and hostile and mistrustful and just radically different. And there was no reason for him to act any differently. Just look at how Chris himself reacted earlier to me declaring him town. If he were scum, he would not even bother, he would just take it in stride. I guarantee it. He is town in this game. I would bet my life on it.
Man I am glad to finally be able to get this off of my chest.
I can't really help it if no one thought I should be pressured for my vote on Rhand.
I should give more reasoning behind my reads. Noted.
Yes, I also felt chills at Voxx's post. That statement wasn't really meant to go anywhere -- a player voiced a feeling that I also felt, so it was just a nice 'hey, me too!' moment.
I am very paranoid of Sir Chris and did not like that you were calling him obvious town after only a couple of posts. Nacho had /one/ post, and I didn't understand why it was /strong/ town. Townread, okay, sure, but strong town? Where? Is what I was thinking.
I wasn't sure because early claims are sometimes jokes. I didn't know Seppel was being serious about his Neutral claim, for example. In a lot of recent games, people like to claim Cop/Priest in their first post as jokes.
Your vote on me is underwhelming. Mostly because it seems like you've lost a lot of your steam over the course of the game.
Anyway, I probably should move my vote soon: I've been keeping track of votals, and it looks like there are a ton of two-man wagons floating around. But I kind of want to not do anything mafia for a couple hours, so. Later.
to be clear, i dont care that hes advocating killing me. but he actually said the correct vig choice was someone hes reading as town.
i guess i get policy lynching me if you think im a distraction. maybe ill learn my lesson if the majority of the game would rather not have me in it.
but what does shooting me accomplish towards that end?
Your last couple posts have actually been good. I like how close attention you're paying to all of these terrible hawk posts. Why is Hawk getting such a pass from Cyan? Cyan don't you think it's strange that Hawk is cozying up to you so much? Did you just read his latest slip?
I did notice that, and commented on it. It seems almost like too obvious of a mistake, but maybe this is like Predator Mafia where I'm just giving people too much credit.
@Hawk: Please explain why you advocating vigging a person that you previously declared town(Tom).
Okay, the other game is over I assume we can have a calm discussion about why I am town/scum now!
Oh did you finally win?
Now I can talk. ******* finally. I caught scum Chris after one post in that game. One. One ******* Post. Granted, eventually I got distracted by Iso's stupid mass claim that made it seem like Iso had to be scum because the town had a Bodyguard, Vig, Cop(me) and Iso(Redirector), and Chris was able to level his play out and I never looked back and just let him play the 'wah I ****ed up woe is me card' and then play nice with me and coast his way to victory. but the point stands that I realized instantly in the Invitational that Chris was scum. And his behavior in this game already has been literally NOTHING like it was in that game. Holy ***** it literally could not be more different. He has been snarky and hostile and mistrustful and just radically different. And there was no reason for him to act any differently. Just look at how Chris himself reacted earlier to me declaring him town. If he were scum, he would not even bother, he would just take it in stride. I guarantee it. He is town in this game. I would bet my life on it.
Man I am glad to finally be able to get this off of my chest.
... Well way to make me think I suck even after I've won, geesh. "This guy's a scrub day 1, a ******* scrub, look at him be a scrub I caught him after one post! One ****in' post!"
(Goodfellas is a good movie to reference for an accent for that cyan quote)
But this lines up with your thoughts in the spec chat. It would probably be much more lucrative for a scum cyan to prey on paranoia for me after stargate, not parade me around when my shelf life is probably not that high. Also scum don't tend to have day vigs.
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Oh right! This is ANOTHER problem that I have with Iso. He also knew you were scum in the Invitational, and should have had the same read on your posts this game in comparison to that game. So for him to declare you scum here is just absurd, because your posts are just polar opposite here. And Iso should know this, because he had access to the EXACT same information that I did.
Like I know you are giving him a wide berth for the whole ego bit but..I am so skeptical. I fully expect him to just win the game as some weird neutral role or something and I'll just be having this same 'oh well I knew it but couldn't convince anyone' conversation with him later.
To be fair, I did say earlier today that you are probably the best player on this site. And now that I've had to have this conversation about you out loud, you'll just figure out how to plug all of these leaks next time you ARE scum and fool me again, so..yeah. I'm just proud of myself for realizing that you really were scum in the Invi, even if you did squirm out of my grasp eventually.
By the way, why does it seem the mods and/or well-known players are always given roles big power roles? Like S.C. and Iso etc can play sloppy and always fall back on their power claims, or survive vig shots, have tracker information etc.
Why are these folks never town vanilla?
Iso should be dead, but instead he gets "extra lives" and more powers on top of that? Do the game mods reward other mods or friends with these crazy roles? Because if so I have a lot less respect for these players accomplishments and the mods that should be giving out roles RANDOMLY.
@cyan so your theory here is that chris, who youve said may be the best mafia player on this site, would have played similarly as scum in this game as he did in the invitational?
are you sure youve thought that through?
Uh... I've only been playing here for a year and a half TS, I am big time because of my play not because of some reputation and just so you know accusing a host of that kind of biased is probably one of the worst things you can do and I don't know where that comes from. Everyone here has had their share of town vanilla games.
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He played similarly as scum in Avant Garde as he did in the Invitational too. I know that some people hate meta, for whatever nonsense reason, but they shouldn't. Meta is largely reliable, and good players know this. People have patterns to the way that they play mafia. People have patterns to the way that the play EVERY game. They don't play EXACTLY the same way every game, but they do have tells and patterns and similarities, period, if you know what to look for and how to look for it.
Like..take poker. People play poker for millions of dollars, and they still tend to largely play certain hands and situations the same way over time. That is simply the way that we are. Knowing how to pick up on this information is what separates good players from bad ones.
I am telling you that *I* think that Chris is town. If you want to have a go at him, whatever. You'll do it without my help, while I try to lynch people that I think are scum.
Uh... I've only been playing here for a year and a half TS, I am big time because of my play not because of some reputation and just so you know accusing a host of that kind of biased is probably one of the worst things you can do and I don't know where that comes from. Everyone here has had their share of town vanilla games.
I didn't accuse anyone. I said IF.
I just find it strange that the games I've played in and many of the games references seem to talk about all this crazy power. Like why does Iso have bulletproof PLUS? As a newer player it strikes me strange. In my other game with you, you were given multiple vig shots. My other game with Iso he subbs in "on the seat, with extra abilities".
But I digress, getting back to this game now.
S.C.-Why don't you have a look at Hawk and tell me if I'm mistaken?
I have given this some more thought and I have decided I am being TOO MERCIFUL with Iso. It's a weakness of mine, my first sweep is often too kind to people so I'll usually town read a scum, so no mercy anymore tbqh.
Problem one with Iso: Dude just saw me murder a game as scum, slice his throat night 1, and drop his corpse like it was plagued and then butcher a town. No other way to describe it. I just butchered a game as scum... and he's talking to us about a Tom. Who the **** is Tom compared to a scum Chris? Even in his imagined world where Tom is super duper master assassin and I am a goon you don't go tom first. Tom's a nothing. A nobody. Unimportant. I have proven over multiple games my scum game is a thriller and it makes me a killer, and this guy goes after Tom first? 0/100 Townies who know my scum history do this.
Problem # 2: he has no actual interest in going toe to toe with me. I have had to drag him to discuss me in any meaningful way which is so far out of town Iso's meta it might as well be on mars. I had to beg him to respond to him once and when I continue to counterpoint him... he seems rather disinterested. Read his reply to me when he did respond: over half his big paragraph is a random tangent has nothing to do with me! He just rambles on and on. He has no sharpness to his points against me.
Problem # 3: He can't even keep his scum read of me self-consistent when he isn't directly discussing it.
First off, let's look at his Cyan blurb:
Cyan: He's infuriatingly wrong on Tordeck, tom, and myself, but this isn't scumCyan by a long shot. scumCyan is highly manipulative and careful, traits I suppose my own scum game parallel. I was almost disappointed that I wasn't scum in this game - mostly because I wanted to be scum with Cyan just once - but then I read my role and was quite pleased with it, so, this works, too.
Notice any of your reads missing, Cyan? DO YOU NOTICE ANY OF YOUR READS MISSING THAT HE MIGHT OBJECT TO BUT TOTALLY FORGETS.
Picked the wrong game to come at me Iso, I'm gonna lynch your scummy ass day 1 AGAIN.
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Roles are assigned randomly, I promise. Integrity in stuff like this is a very big deal around here. What you're seeing is the opposite correlation, players playing sloppy BECAUSE of the role that they are given. Iso probably wouldn't have acted like this, but he did so because he knew he could get away with it. And honestly, I still kind of want to lynch him, because I can't help but wonder if he's some kind of neutral. But that's probably just me being super stubborn.
Maybe he'll just do us a favor and die when Taredas shows up. Ironically, he has kind of doomed himself, because no one is ever going to bother targeting him now. Sucks that I had to waste my daykill for that but..such is life. I just can't get over how off it feels like all of his reads are.
And yeah, Sir Chris is super new here. And we don't even know what his role is this game.
He played similarly as scum in Avant Garde as he did in the Invitational too. I know that some people hate meta, for whatever nonsense reason, but they shouldn't. Meta is largely reliable, and good players know this. People have patterns to the way that they play mafia. People have patterns to the way that the play EVERY game. They don't play EXACTLY the same way every game, but they do have tells and patterns and similarities, period, if you know what to look for and how to look for it.
Like..take poker. People play poker for millions of dollars, and they still tend to largely play certain hands and situations the same way over time. That is simply the way that we are. Knowing how to pick up on this information is what separates good players from bad ones.
I am telling you that *I* think that Chris is town. If you want to have a go at him, whatever. You'll do it without my help, while I try to lynch people that I think are scum.
no i get it. the problem is the bolded.
chris gets it too.
i am by no means certain chris is scum. but if he is, wouldnt he actively try to play differently than his most recent scum game? a game with 6 players that are in this game.
im not saying meta doesnt have its uses, but one of those uses is fooling the silly townies.
I've been sick most of this game and I'm still posting more than most of this game, this place is starting to remind me of my old community. We need more EFFORT.
TS just for you I will case Hawk because you are a VALUED MEMBER of the community.
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no i get it. the problem is the bolded.
chris gets it too.
i am by no means certain chris is scum. but if he is, wouldnt he actively try to play differently than his most recent scum game? a game with 6 players that are in this game.
im not saying meta doesnt have its uses, but one of those uses is fooling the silly townies.
You would think that people would try to play around their own meta. And as someone that has played hundreds of games of mafia, I can tell you that I have tried to do exactly this but like..it is just painfully difficult to do. Especially as scum. I don't know why. It just is.
Quote from Tapping Stones »
I want to lynch Hawk. He's made several slips of which I referenced multiple times. He's cozying up to certain players including Cyan.
I will lynch Iso if that's the way this is going but I think you guys should case Hawk.
Yeah, I'm unclear what to make of Hawk right now. He is definitely a possible scum candidate. He's had some emotional tells that could be town, but they could have easily been faked. The slip you're referring to absolutely is something that he needs to answer for; no question about that. I want to see that answer before I decide how to proceed there.
Quote from Sir Chris »
I've been sick most of this game and I'm still posting more than most of this game, this place is starting to remind me of my old community. We need more EFFORT.
TS just for you I will case Hawk because you are a VALUED MEMBER of the community.
Does caffeine count as a drug in this context? Because I just chugged a lot of coffee.
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guys if me and tapping are agreeing on something it is almost certain to be true. i dont recall that ever happening.
Day 1 of Predator you both said I was scum.
Application DENIED.
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You're smart enough to like Tom Selleck, so I assumed you're pretty smart in general. Plus you have to be kind of intelligent to be sarcastic in the first place.
Man, Hawk's style of "let's say a ton of post #s and small blurbs" is so hard on my eyes right now. Hard to really make anything he says actually gel. Like his first thing he says is "tom read the rules" like... this was somehow noteworthy!? This isn't even about alignment, I am just annoyed he bothered to say it. It's hard to really get anything from this type of post, but the thing about me jumps out because of how silly it is:
#40 Chris seems like he's openly coaching tom? (Possibly scum together)
Except we know at this point that scum chat was still open, so why would a member of town think I was coaching a buddy in topic? That just don't make no sense. He also softballs Iso's terrible tom vote ("I wonder if he has a meta read?" without...actually asking Iso about his tom read. Will see if he ever follows up on this)
In fact funnily enough he says scum and town a lot in this first post, but his three mentions of iso gain a singular null. Other people he is trying to problem solve in theory, but Iso he is just saying stuff.
Moving on to his second horrible post of post #s...
Again the thing that catches my eye is his Iso and me stuff. He says Iso is really hard to read even though he called him... candid in this series of posts. Usually if you think someone is candid you believe them.
As for me, at the end of this post he says this:
I currently think SirChris is town. The good news is he looks so town because hee's great at killing scum via bussing or finding so I'm ok with this initial assumption.
Aside from the chris/tom thing he mentioned earlier, here is what he had to say to be on pages 3 and 4:
#140 Sir chris seems to be rationalizing a policy lynch on iso, uhh what? Asks cyan why he is town reading sir chris. Self aware. (Seems self absorbed so not sure if scum tell)
#147 Chris asks tom why he is reading chris as scum. Also paints Iso as scum by saying he doesn't explain himself (not exactly true thus far)
Where's the town read? Hawks what posts of mine did you read in the first four pages that made you go 'Chris is town.' Was it the possible coaching of buddy Tom or me not stating things accurately in your view point towards Iso.
Okay so TS seems to have been doing good scum hunting on his own, good job. Mind you I have been making up for my good health by skipping large swaths of this game and by the sound of it you think hawk is scum for reasons other than this, but seeming to think I am scum in his point by point and then going 'oh yeah he's town' is probably better than what you had anyway.
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@SC: So wait, if these are your thoughts re: Iso, why did you even bother unvoting him yesterday to begin with?
Please read my posts before asking stupid questions, caffeine only carries me so far.
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Man, Hawk's style of "let's say a ton of post #s and small blurbs" is so hard on my eyes right now. Hard to really make anything he says actually gel. Like his first thing he says is "tom read the rules" like... this was somehow noteworthy!? This isn't even about alignment, I am just annoyed he bothered to say it. It's hard to really get anything from this type of post, but the thing about me jumps out because of how silly it is:
#40 Chris seems like he's openly coaching tom? (Possibly scum together)
Except we know at this point that scum chat was still open, so why would a member of town think I was coaching a buddy in topic? That just don't make no sense. He also softballs Iso's terrible tom vote ("I wonder if he has a meta read?" without...actually asking Iso about his tom read. Will see if he ever follows up on this)
In fact funnily enough he says scum and town a lot in this first post, but his three mentions of iso gain a singular null. Other people he is trying to problem solve in theory, but Iso he is just saying stuff.
Moving on to his second horrible post of post #s...
Again the thing that catches my eye is his Iso and me stuff. He says Iso is really hard to read even though he called him... candid in this series of posts. Usually if you think someone is candid you believe them.
As for me, at the end of this post he says this:
I currently think SirChris is town. The good news is he looks so town because hee's great at killing scum via bussing or finding so I'm ok with this initial assumption.
Aside from the chris/tom thing he mentioned earlier, here is what he had to say to be on pages 3 and 4:
#140 Sir chris seems to be rationalizing a policy lynch on iso, uhh what? Asks cyan why he is town reading sir chris. Self aware. (Seems self absorbed so not sure if scum tell)
#147 Chris asks tom why he is reading chris as scum. Also paints Iso as scum by saying he doesn't explain himself (not exactly true thus far)
Where's the town read? Hawks what posts of mine did you read in the first four pages that made you go 'Chris is town.' Was it the possible coaching of buddy Tom or me not stating things accurately in your view point towards Iso.
Okay so TS seems to have been doing good scum hunting on his own, good job. Mind you I have been making up for my good health by skipping large swaths of this game and by the sound of it you think hawk is scum for reasons other than this, but seeming to think I am scum in his point by point and then going 'oh yeah he's town' is probably better than what you had anyway.
Hence why I asked others to case him. I found some slips but other more experienced players can follow up and verify. Peer review is our friend.
@SC: So wait, if these are your thoughts re: Iso, why did you even bother unvoting him yesterday to begin with?
Please read my posts before asking stupid questions, caffeine only carries me so far.
What? Yesterday you were like 'Iso has too much ego/pride/blah blah blah to approach me like this if he is scum so maybe he is scum, unvote herp derp'.
So I'm just wondering what happened to all of that.
And hey. The only stupid question is the one that you don't ask.
You engage someone because people handle pressure differently as different alignments, especially depending upon their skill level, but even good players will sometimes crack if you really put their feet to the fire. Like..how else would you actually catch scum? Just lynch people and hope it works out? What am I missing here?
"How else would you actually catch scum"? Mindset. Consistency. Vote logic. I'll be happy to go into it if you think it'll help you understand me, but it feels like kind of wandering away from playing the game into talking about how we play the game.
To put it briefly, a healthy town needs hardcore pressureers, because there needs to be content. But you also need "above-it-all" thread analyzers, because if everyone is a loud aggressive voice, then it gets... very, very loud. I'm quite capable of putting on my "tunnel a *****" hat, believe me, even if it doesn't always lead to good places :/ Slight divergence - uh, Voxx kind of knows what I'm talking about. I'm consciously trying to avoid mistakes I've made in the past, let's just leave it at that.
Okay, I need to kind of vent / put something out there. I'll just link it since I want both the quotes:
Sir Chris / Iso interaction.
Here's my problem with the two of you. Well, and others, but you two are certainly the worst offenders.
Your thoughts on each other are almost entirely meta-based. And that does almost nothing for me. On a fundamental level, when I look at a post, I ask myself two questions: One, "does this person believe what they're saying?" and two, "would scum say that?" (the second is heavily context-dependent, of course.)
Now, when I read posts like this, to the first question, yes. To the second question... I have literally no idea because to parse your argument, I need to go read a backlog of probably dozens of games and literally thousands of posts, and lol no.
Just... both of you, and everyone else, remember that there are people in this game who have basically zero experience with any of you. If you keep playing the way you're playing, I'm going to have to read you both off pure vote logic, and you are both far too entertaining of players for that to be any fun at all.
I mean. Look at this wall. LOOK AT IT. I'm going to just say it: Yeah, I didn't read that. I mean, I tried a couple times, but there's only so much the human mind can take before it quite simply shuts down. The main thing I got from the two times I did skim it were that you have a reputation, Iso. But like I said before: you are hyper-aware of that reputation. Any move you make based on that is useless WIFOM.
TL;DR, meta reads are a crutch, let's ditch them, shall we?
First off I had 1 disclaimer that I was catching up and 2 catch up posts.
After that I've been pretty ******* involved.
Not a single person wanted to talk about what I thought about seppel?
Meanwhile tapoing stones has accused both iso and myself of being scum without asking wither of us relevant questions and than has the audacity to complain that no one wants to case me. What the hell is that.
Meanwhile pengo tries to dismiss everything I've said up into this point.
I'm down for lynching either of these players.
Seppel has claimed Neutral Survivor. That puts him pretty firmly in my "something to worry about later" bucket.
I'm completely down for lynching Pengo. I'm currently voting him. You should join me.
Your anger seems a bit... misplaced, though. And sudden. See above w/r/t engaging vs. not engaging your scumreads. Not everyone thinks the same way about mafia, or hunts scum in the same manner.
Okay, let's look at Hawk's progression on TS:
#162 Tapping stones comes in and doesn't really say much. This post is as hide in plain sight as possible, he addresses Tom, Iso and calls cyan town. To point out two players that are directly opposed and have had the most attention and then agree with the person that is driving a vote to one of them throws a serious red flag to me. This post definitely has the most scum motivation out of any post i've seen yet.
#174 Vox thinks TS is scum based on 162 +town
*note how he's giving +town points for seeing the same things
Actually, yeah, this is a Thing. Hawk's "catchup" posts stops being a catch-all IIoA "things that happened" and starts focusing on TS:
#181 TS responds to vox about his predator mafia meta call and then dismisses Voxx's attack calling it weak.
#182 TS dismisses cyan's problem with TS's post. (Notice does have a typo and doesn't make an edit post)
#183 Tammy says tom is scum
#188 Nacho agrees with Tammy
#190 Vaimes votes TS
#194 TS is taunting vaimes in saying that his vote will be worthless while on him. wut
Look at how Hawk's kind of orienting his sense of the game based on this read. And then he directly engages with TS (which gives weight to his frustration with people *not* directly engaging with him later):
Does it? I've been wrong about rhand so many times in previous games it would be more accurate for me to guess his alignment and assume that it's instantly wrong which I've already commented "I'm notoriously bad at reading rhand ". I have no intention of lynching rhand right now so I believe that he believes those reads. His line of thinking is very different than mine so town or scum mindset, he has his reasons for that list. He's not bad.
Nice try discrediting me. Time to get lynched.
I think Hawk is town getting into a tunneling mindset. I don't think TS is actually scum, though? He could be? Bah, I have no idea on TS.
Is this post some kind of bad joke? I asked you questions. You then accused me of a misrep, which is totally false What do you want us to say about Seppel? I beleive his claim. If you dont then have at it.
Seems like a fairly towny slapdown of a bad argument? Mrgle.
I don't think Hawk's case is strong, but I believe that he believes it.
Sir Chris, Vaimes, NotVoxx, Nacho. Do you think Iso is scum. Why or Why Not? I guess anyone can answer, but I am particularly interested in these people and anyone else that I have declared a town read on and am momentarily forgetting. Obviously I already know Tapping's answer.
Gun to my head, he's town. I know scum occasionally do grandstand as performance art, but like... why? What's he accomplishing? I know a lot of people have said "oh man this is classic scum!Iso", but as seen above re: meta reads, that is not an argument that's going to hold weight for me. I see a player who's active, asking questions, following up on them, and has an "I believe what I"m saying" tone. I also do actually read the meta stuff, though, and as scum, sometimes it's easier to just double down on conviction when you find you're all out there on your own, rather than carefully backtrack. For that reason, when people make those "I've seen scum!Iso do this!" arguments, they are kind of... well, not persuasive. But I listen.
Your top 3 feel a little easy. Tordeck... I guess? Feels a little like you're kind of pushing the heat he's getting without really pushing it, by listing him that high. Plowshares got flack for his literally one post, but it's tough to believe that's your top scumread after reading the whole game. I do not understand CitricBase as your 3rd highest scumread. Elaborate?
I mean that's just so... Lack of Guile. He was townreading Tom. Does scum!Hawk say that about Tom if he already knows Tom's alignment? No, because he'd know it would look bad. Ugh maybe I'm overthinking this. But I think Hawk is just kind of "shoot from the hip" town. I'm kind of mentally grouping Hawk and Tordeck as "people who I think are probably town but say things that are surface-level scummy." Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf-style.
____
I miss ActualVoxx. @Voxxicus, where'd you go? Do you think we can just townread each other and then you can abandon me? Do you know how goddamn paranoid I am of you? Do you not understand that I can and will read multiple layers into literally everything you say and do and don't say and don't do?
Give me something to work with, here.
@Cyan
I kind of wish you'd threatened the daykill before you'd tried it, tbh. It would have given people a chance to react to it, and more importantly people a chance to NOT react to it. You asked me "well if that's your playsyle, how do you find scum" - one of my biggest things, early game, is to look for places people had a chance to do something, and didn't do it. Like a question and a follow-up with an obvious follow-follow-up, and they just... don't take it. I admit, with the insanely long Days, it's proving to be difficult to keep track of, but yeah, negative space analysis.
I have given this some more thought and I have decided I am being TOO MERCIFUL with Iso. It's a weakness of mine, my first sweep is often too kind to people so I'll usually town read a scum, so no mercy anymore tbqh.
opening line of my post from Iso.
Basically since I unvoted Iso he has done nothing town Iso in any way shape or form, to the point that I just think the ego thing is for sure.
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Shouldn't you be more excited that I came to the same conclusion you did? Great job Tom, take 5 more points to Hufflepuff.
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@NotVoxx - I would look at Iso's talking points about me throughout the game, how he has interacted with me, and ask yourself 'does this seem like a member of town who is interested in figuring this player out? Does Iso actually seem interested in Chris?"
I think the answer is clearly no. He says stuff about me but I don't appear to be on his mind a lot.
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I mean that's just so... Lack of Guile. He was townreading Tom. Does scum!Hawk say that about Tom if he already knows Tom's alignment? No, because he'd know it would look bad. Ugh maybe I'm overthinking this. But I think Hawk is just kind of "shoot from the hip" town. I'm kind of mentally grouping Hawk and Tordeck as "people who I think are probably town but say things that are surface-level scummy." Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf-style.
I think this is how I feel about it as well, but it's possible that it was just an honest to God scumslip. I am undecided. Because like..if Hawk is scum..it's a pretty big damned slip. I really just want to see what he has to say about it before deciding further, so hopefully he answers tomorrow or something.
Your top 3 feel a little easy. Tordeck... I guess? Feels a little like you're kind of pushing the heat he's getting without really pushing it, by listing him that high. Plowshares got flack for his literally one post, but it's tough to believe that's your top scumread after reading the whole game. I do not understand CitricBase as your 3rd highest scumread. Elaborate?
The entire bottom chunk is unorganized. I feel much more confident in townreading people than scumreading them (whether or not I'm correctly reading them is a different matter entirely!), so. Townreads are organized, non-townreads were dumped at the bottom of the list. No specific ordering.
As far as CitricBase goes, I think I remember seeing some people listing him as town when I'm 90% sure he hasn't done anything that isn't super easy to fake. He has maybe...five posts? Eh. I'll double check later.
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Your top 3 feel a little easy. Tordeck... I guess? Feels a little like you're kind of pushing the heat he's getting without really pushing it, by listing him that high. Plowshares got flack for his literally one post, but it's tough to believe that's your top scumread after reading the whole game. I do not understand CitricBase as your 3rd highest scumread. Elaborate?
The entire bottom chunk is unorganized. I feel much more confident in townreading people than scumreading them (whether or not I'm correctly reading them is a different matter entirely!), so. Townreads are organized, non-townreads were dumped at the bottom of the list. No specific ordering.
As far as CitricBase goes, I think I remember seeing some people listing him as town when I'm 90% sure he hasn't done anything that isn't super easy to fake. He has maybe...five posts? Eh. I'll double check later.
@Vaimes How am I looking these days? <3
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but that seems pretty broken in conjunction with vig
To clarify: does this nullify kills as well, and you just don't get a one-shot of them?
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Cyan
tomsloger
NotVoxxicus
Iso
Sir Chris
Voxxicus
Nachomamma8
Rhand
7hawk77
Seppel
MzztrTetris
prowlingpengolin
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CitricBase
Tordeck
Plowshares
is ~about where I'm at. I focused more on finding townreads. Ordering of the leftovers is mostly irrelevant.
I really don't think Iso is scum, which is problematic because I think I disagree with literally all of his scumreads. In addition, a lot of players with much more experience with him have spent a good chunk of the game claiming that this isn't town!Iso. But like? I absolutely believe he believes tom is scum. Maybe I'm just a sucker for total conviction, but like. /I/ think it's real. Anyway, he's probably dying, so whatever, I hope his flip shatters the earth and breaks the game open.
Hm.
If anyone wants me to elaborate on a read, I'll do so tomorrow. My head is pulsing.
And we know that Tordeck is one of 3 people that could be the Double Voter, because of the Vote Count that revealed this information. In it, Tordeck, Sir Chris, Tapping Stones, and 'Ambassadors' were listed as voting for Iso. So one of those 3 is the Double Voter. Unless the Double Voter is some incredibly awkward mechanism where the person secretly PMs the Mod with their vote. But this is just insanely unlikely. It stands to reason that one of these 3 is the double voter.
I'm not really holding it against you that you didn't know this. I guess you're just not caught up. I forget that people just don't read the thread all of the time, and then comment on things as they go along.
But while you're here, let's take a look at your posts.
So you immediately barn my Rhand vote, but you don't explain why. Interesting that Plowshares took all of the flack in the world for doing this, but no one ever looked at you twice for it. I supposed because you were actually posting.
You also called Iso town. Again without saying why. And you stated that you disagreed with his Tom assessment. Again without stating why. A pattern is pretty quickly developing here.
Oh, and you vaguely barn a statement that pengo made that was..vague to begin with.
Then you want to know why I liked Nacho. Apparently it's okay for you to have a 'towncrush' on me, but not for me to feel strongly about Nacho and Sir Chris. Duly noted. Moving on.
Later, Voxx asks you if you are Mafia. Your answer is.
This honestly seems like too much of an answer to me, oddly enough. Interesting.
I really dislike this post. I get that you are trying to 'keep people level headed', or that's what you want people to think but..the tone comes across to me as you just wanting to sow mistrust. And that is strictly scum territory. Especially for, again, someone that expressed a very early 'towncrush' on me. I think that this is a pretty glaring double standard on your part.
I don't know what to make of this because like..Iso DID basically claim a town PR, more or less..indirectly. So why is Vaimes not sure here?
Seems like it could be a town post, depending on whether or not he actually goes back to figure this out.
Vote is pretty underwhelming.
And now we're caught up. Vaimes did ultimately commit to say that he doesn't think Iso is scum, but..also said that he disagrees with all of Iso's reads so..lol? And that he doesn't believe Iso that he is immune to my daykill? I don't really get it.
I don't know what to make of all of this, but, I'm still pretty unimpressed with Vaimes right now.
Because I held off before due to the game being on going, but wtf explain.
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Oh did you finally win?
Now I can talk. ******* finally. I caught scum Chris after one post in that game. One. One ******* Post. Granted, eventually I got distracted by Iso's stupid mass claim that made it seem like Iso had to be scum because the town had a Bodyguard, Vig, Cop(me) and Iso(Redirector), and Chris was able to level his play out and I never looked back and just let him play the 'wah I ****ed up woe is me card' and then play nice with me and coast his way to victory. but the point stands that I realized instantly in the Invitational that Chris was scum. And his behavior in this game already has been literally NOTHING like it was in that game. Holy ***** it literally could not be more different. He has been snarky and hostile and mistrustful and just radically different. And there was no reason for him to act any differently. Just look at how Chris himself reacted earlier to me declaring him town. If he were scum, he would not even bother, he would just take it in stride. I guarantee it. He is town in this game. I would bet my life on it.
Man I am glad to finally be able to get this off of my chest.
I can't really help it if no one thought I should be pressured for my vote on Rhand.
I should give more reasoning behind my reads. Noted.
Yes, I also felt chills at Voxx's post. That statement wasn't really meant to go anywhere -- a player voiced a feeling that I also felt, so it was just a nice 'hey, me too!' moment.
I am very paranoid of Sir Chris and did not like that you were calling him obvious town after only a couple of posts. Nacho had /one/ post, and I didn't understand why it was /strong/ town. Townread, okay, sure, but strong town? Where? Is what I was thinking.
I wasn't sure because early claims are sometimes jokes. I didn't know Seppel was being serious about his Neutral claim, for example. In a lot of recent games, people like to claim Cop/Priest in their first post as jokes.
Your vote on me is underwhelming. Mostly because it seems like you've lost a lot of your steam over the course of the game.
Anyway, I probably should move my vote soon: I've been keeping track of votals, and it looks like there are a ton of two-man wagons floating around. But I kind of want to not do anything mafia for a couple hours, so. Later.
Your last couple posts have actually been good. I like how close attention you're paying to all of these terrible hawk posts. Why is Hawk getting such a pass from Cyan? Cyan don't you think it's strange that Hawk is cozying up to you so much? Did you just read his latest slip?
Even Tom is catching this stuff!!
@Hawk: Please explain why you advocating vigging a person that you previously declared town(Tom).
... Well way to make me think I suck even after I've won, geesh. "This guy's a scrub day 1, a ******* scrub, look at him be a scrub I caught him after one post! One ****in' post!"
(Goodfellas is a good movie to reference for an accent for that cyan quote)
But this lines up with your thoughts in the spec chat. It would probably be much more lucrative for a scum cyan to prey on paranoia for me after stargate, not parade me around when my shelf life is probably not that high. Also scum don't tend to have day vigs.
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Like I know you are giving him a wide berth for the whole ego bit but..I am so skeptical. I fully expect him to just win the game as some weird neutral role or something and I'll just be having this same 'oh well I knew it but couldn't convince anyone' conversation with him later.
To be fair, I did say earlier today that you are probably the best player on this site. And now that I've had to have this conversation about you out loud, you'll just figure out how to plug all of these leaks next time you ARE scum and fool me again, so..yeah. I'm just proud of myself for realizing that you really were scum in the Invi, even if you did squirm out of my grasp eventually.
Why are these folks never town vanilla?
Iso should be dead, but instead he gets "extra lives" and more powers on top of that? Do the game mods reward other mods or friends with these crazy roles? Because if so I have a lot less respect for these players accomplishments and the mods that should be giving out roles RANDOMLY.
are you sure youve thought that through?
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Like..take poker. People play poker for millions of dollars, and they still tend to largely play certain hands and situations the same way over time. That is simply the way that we are. Knowing how to pick up on this information is what separates good players from bad ones.
I am telling you that *I* think that Chris is town. If you want to have a go at him, whatever. You'll do it without my help, while I try to lynch people that I think are scum.
I didn't accuse anyone. I said IF.
I just find it strange that the games I've played in and many of the games references seem to talk about all this crazy power. Like why does Iso have bulletproof PLUS? As a newer player it strikes me strange. In my other game with you, you were given multiple vig shots. My other game with Iso he subbs in "on the seat, with extra abilities".
But I digress, getting back to this game now.
S.C.-Why don't you have a look at Hawk and tell me if I'm mistaken?
##vote: Iso
I have given this some more thought and I have decided I am being TOO MERCIFUL with Iso. It's a weakness of mine, my first sweep is often too kind to people so I'll usually town read a scum, so no mercy anymore tbqh.
Problem one with Iso: Dude just saw me murder a game as scum, slice his throat night 1, and drop his corpse like it was plagued and then butcher a town. No other way to describe it. I just butchered a game as scum... and he's talking to us about a Tom. Who the **** is Tom compared to a scum Chris? Even in his imagined world where Tom is super duper master assassin and I am a goon you don't go tom first. Tom's a nothing. A nobody. Unimportant. I have proven over multiple games my scum game is a thriller and it makes me a killer, and this guy goes after Tom first? 0/100 Townies who know my scum history do this.
Problem # 2: he has no actual interest in going toe to toe with me. I have had to drag him to discuss me in any meaningful way which is so far out of town Iso's meta it might as well be on mars. I had to beg him to respond to him once and when I continue to counterpoint him... he seems rather disinterested. Read his reply to me when he did respond: over half his big paragraph is a random tangent has nothing to do with me! He just rambles on and on. He has no sharpness to his points against me.
Problem # 3: He can't even keep his scum read of me self-consistent when he isn't directly discussing it.
First off, let's look at his Cyan blurb:
Notice any of your reads missing, Cyan? DO YOU NOTICE ANY OF YOUR READS MISSING THAT HE MIGHT OBJECT TO BUT TOTALLY FORGETS.
Picked the wrong game to come at me Iso, I'm gonna lynch your scummy ass day 1 AGAIN.
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Roles are assigned randomly, I promise. Integrity in stuff like this is a very big deal around here. What you're seeing is the opposite correlation, players playing sloppy BECAUSE of the role that they are given. Iso probably wouldn't have acted like this, but he did so because he knew he could get away with it. And honestly, I still kind of want to lynch him, because I can't help but wonder if he's some kind of neutral. But that's probably just me being super stubborn.
Maybe he'll just do us a favor and die when Taredas shows up. Ironically, he has kind of doomed himself, because no one is ever going to bother targeting him now. Sucks that I had to waste my daykill for that but..such is life. I just can't get over how off it feels like all of his reads are.
And yeah, Sir Chris is super new here. And we don't even know what his role is this game.
chris gets it too.
i am by no means certain chris is scum. but if he is, wouldnt he actively try to play differently than his most recent scum game? a game with 6 players that are in this game.
im not saying meta doesnt have its uses, but one of those uses is fooling the silly townies.
I will lynch Iso if that's the way this is going but I think you guys should case Hawk.
TS just for you I will case Hawk because you are a VALUED MEMBER of the community.
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You would think that people would try to play around their own meta. And as someone that has played hundreds of games of mafia, I can tell you that I have tried to do exactly this but like..it is just painfully difficult to do. Especially as scum. I don't know why. It just is.
Yeah, I'm unclear what to make of Hawk right now. He is definitely a possible scum candidate. He's had some emotional tells that could be town, but they could have easily been faked. The slip you're referring to absolutely is something that he needs to answer for; no question about that. I want to see that answer before I decide how to proceed there.
...Are you on drugs?
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Day 1 of Predator you both said I was scum.
Application DENIED.
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hawk is still scum though.
Chris, you should take a look over tordeck's posts and tell me what you think.
i dont want to shatter the simple jack illusion, but i do technically have a bachelors in mathematics
Except we know at this point that scum chat was still open, so why would a member of town think I was coaching a buddy in topic? That just don't make no sense. He also softballs Iso's terrible tom vote ("I wonder if he has a meta read?" without...actually asking Iso about his tom read. Will see if he ever follows up on this)
In fact funnily enough he says scum and town a lot in this first post, but his three mentions of iso gain a singular null. Other people he is trying to problem solve in theory, but Iso he is just saying stuff.
Moving on to his second horrible post of post #s...
Again the thing that catches my eye is his Iso and me stuff. He says Iso is really hard to read even though he called him... candid in this series of posts. Usually if you think someone is candid you believe them.
As for me, at the end of this post he says this:
Aside from the chris/tom thing he mentioned earlier, here is what he had to say to be on pages 3 and 4:
Where's the town read? Hawks what posts of mine did you read in the first four pages that made you go 'Chris is town.' Was it the possible coaching of buddy Tom or me not stating things accurately in your view point towards Iso.
Okay so TS seems to have been doing good scum hunting on his own, good job. Mind you I have been making up for my good health by skipping large swaths of this game and by the sound of it you think hawk is scum for reasons other than this, but seeming to think I am scum in his point by point and then going 'oh yeah he's town' is probably better than what you had anyway.
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Please read my posts before asking stupid questions, caffeine only carries me so far.
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2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Hence why I asked others to case him. I found some slips but other more experienced players can follow up and verify. Peer review is our friend.
What? Yesterday you were like 'Iso has too much ego/pride/blah blah blah to approach me like this if he is scum so maybe he is scum, unvote herp derp'.
So I'm just wondering what happened to all of that.
And hey. The only stupid question is the one that you don't ask.
Still want an answer to this, Nacho.
"How else would you actually catch scum"? Mindset. Consistency. Vote logic. I'll be happy to go into it if you think it'll help you understand me, but it feels like kind of wandering away from playing the game into talking about how we play the game.
To put it briefly, a healthy town needs hardcore pressureers, because there needs to be content. But you also need "above-it-all" thread analyzers, because if everyone is a loud aggressive voice, then it gets... very, very loud. I'm quite capable of putting on my "tunnel a *****" hat, believe me, even if it doesn't always lead to good places :/ Slight divergence - uh, Voxx kind of knows what I'm talking about. I'm consciously trying to avoid mistakes I've made in the past, let's just leave it at that.
Okay, I need to kind of vent / put something out there. I'll just link it since I want both the quotes:
Sir Chris / Iso interaction.
Here's my problem with the two of you. Well, and others, but you two are certainly the worst offenders.
Your thoughts on each other are almost entirely meta-based. And that does almost nothing for me. On a fundamental level, when I look at a post, I ask myself two questions: One, "does this person believe what they're saying?" and two, "would scum say that?" (the second is heavily context-dependent, of course.)
Now, when I read posts like this, to the first question, yes. To the second question... I have literally no idea because to parse your argument, I need to go read a backlog of probably dozens of games and literally thousands of posts, and lol no.
Just... both of you, and everyone else, remember that there are people in this game who have basically zero experience with any of you. If you keep playing the way you're playing, I'm going to have to read you both off pure vote logic, and you are both far too entertaining of players for that to be any fun at all.
I mean. Look at this wall. LOOK AT IT. I'm going to just say it: Yeah, I didn't read that. I mean, I tried a couple times, but there's only so much the human mind can take before it quite simply shuts down. The main thing I got from the two times I did skim it were that you have a reputation, Iso. But like I said before: you are hyper-aware of that reputation. Any move you make based on that is useless WIFOM.
TL;DR, meta reads are a crutch, let's ditch them, shall we?
Seppel has claimed Neutral Survivor. That puts him pretty firmly in my "something to worry about later" bucket.
I'm completely down for lynching Pengo. I'm currently voting him. You should join me.
Your anger seems a bit... misplaced, though. And sudden. See above w/r/t engaging vs. not engaging your scumreads. Not everyone thinks the same way about mafia, or hunts scum in the same manner.
Okay, let's look at Hawk's progression on TS:
*note how he's giving +town points for seeing the same things
Actually, yeah, this is a Thing. Hawk's "catchup" posts stops being a catch-all IIoA "things that happened" and starts focusing on TS:
Look at how Hawk's kind of orienting his sense of the game based on this read. And then he directly engages with TS (which gives weight to his frustration with people *not* directly engaging with him later):
I think Hawk is town getting into a tunneling mindset. I don't think TS is actually scum, though? He could be? Bah, I have no idea on TS.
Seems like a fairly towny slapdown of a bad argument? Mrgle.
I don't think Hawk's case is strong, but I believe that he believes it.
Gun to my head, he's town. I know scum occasionally do grandstand as performance art, but like... why? What's he accomplishing? I know a lot of people have said "oh man this is classic scum!Iso", but as seen above re: meta reads, that is not an argument that's going to hold weight for me. I see a player who's active, asking questions, following up on them, and has an "I believe what I"m saying" tone. I also do actually read the meta stuff, though, and as scum, sometimes it's easier to just double down on conviction when you find you're all out there on your own, rather than carefully backtrack. For that reason, when people make those "I've seen scum!Iso do this!" arguments, they are kind of... well, not persuasive. But I listen.
Your top 3 feel a little easy. Tordeck... I guess? Feels a little like you're kind of pushing the heat he's getting without really pushing it, by listing him that high. Plowshares got flack for his literally one post, but it's tough to believe that's your top scumread after reading the whole game. I do not understand CitricBase as your 3rd highest scumread. Elaborate?
Aaaaaaaaand Hawk just said that.
I mean that's just so... Lack of Guile. He was townreading Tom. Does scum!Hawk say that about Tom if he already knows Tom's alignment? No, because he'd know it would look bad. Ugh maybe I'm overthinking this. But I think Hawk is just kind of "shoot from the hip" town. I'm kind of mentally grouping Hawk and Tordeck as "people who I think are probably town but say things that are surface-level scummy." Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf-style.
____
I miss ActualVoxx. @Voxxicus, where'd you go? Do you think we can just townread each other and then you can abandon me? Do you know how goddamn paranoid I am of you? Do you not understand that I can and will read multiple layers into literally everything you say and do and don't say and don't do?
Give me something to work with, here.
@Cyan
I kind of wish you'd threatened the daykill before you'd tried it, tbh. It would have given people a chance to react to it, and more importantly people a chance to NOT react to it. You asked me "well if that's your playsyle, how do you find scum" - one of my biggest things, early game, is to look for places people had a chance to do something, and didn't do it. Like a question and a follow-up with an obvious follow-follow-up, and they just... don't take it. I admit, with the insanely long Days, it's proving to be difficult to keep track of, but yeah, negative space analysis.
derp derp derp
opening line of my post from Iso.
Basically since I unvoted Iso he has done nothing town Iso in any way shape or form, to the point that I just think the ego thing is for sure.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Let's try this again:
opening line of my post ABOUT iso
the ego thing is for show*
jesus, I need more sleep.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Shouldn't you be more excited that I came to the same conclusion you did? Great job Tom, take 5 more points to Hufflepuff.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I think the answer is clearly no. He says stuff about me but I don't appear to be on his mind a lot.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I think this is how I feel about it as well, but it's possible that it was just an honest to God scumslip. I am undecided. Because like..if Hawk is scum..it's a pretty big damned slip. I really just want to see what he has to say about it before deciding further, so hopefully he answers tomorrow or something.
not the parts about hawk, but most of the rest.
The entire bottom chunk is unorganized. I feel much more confident in townreading people than scumreading them (whether or not I'm correctly reading them is a different matter entirely!), so. Townreads are organized, non-townreads were dumped at the bottom of the list. No specific ordering.
As far as CitricBase goes, I think I remember seeing some people listing him as town when I'm 90% sure he hasn't done anything that isn't super easy to fake. He has maybe...five posts? Eh. I'll double check later.
Incorrect Formatting. Ability Not Used.
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"I've never seen anyone enjoy oatmeal so much.
"After who knows how long eating Froot Loops, a little variety helps."
CitricBase's V/LA extension until the 22n acknowledged. - Tar
The Second Vote Count (aka the "Oh Come On, Who Talks Like That?" Vote Count)
1) Atogaholic (1) - Seppel
2) Iso (0) -
3) Voxxicus (0) -
4) tomsloger (1) - Iso
5) Cyan (0) -
6) Tordeck (0) -
7) hansanator (0) -
8) TappingStones (2) - Vaimes, 7hawk77
9) Seppel (0) -
10) Vaimes (3) - CitricBase, Nachomamma8, Cyan
11) Plowshares (0) -
12) NotVoxxicus (2) - Voxxicus, prowlingpengolin
13) MzztrTetris (0) -
14) 7hawk77 (2) - tomsloger, TappingStones
15) Sir Chris (2) - Rhand, Tordeck
16) Nachomamma8 (0) -
17) prowlingpengolin (2) - Atogaholic, NotVoxxicus
18) Jobie (0) -
19) CitricBase (0) -
20) Rhand (2) - Plowshares, MzztrTetris
Not Voting (3) - hansanator, Sir Chris, Jobie
With 21 votes in play it takes 11 votes to lynch.
Day 1 Deadline: January 26, 2016 at ~6:00 P.M. GMT -6 (30 days plus 2 week deadline suspension - see Rule 9a)
Remaining Extensions: Option 1 (3 days), Option 2 (days equal to lynch threshold)
Due to the year-end holiday deadline suspension, extensions will not be granted Day 1.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
@Vaimes How am I looking these days? <3