GJ's attack on me makes no sense, but I am like a book that has been taken from the library. So I don't care.
The two strongest scum reads you gave, decided than just coasting to a mislynch on townSeppel was not good enough. If you are truly town, how can you think two scum decided that was a good idea, on a point where there was no way I/Sir Chris would have gone after Proph? Cyan reiterated this point in 1613.
I don't know. They're independently scummy to me. I'm not focusing on the bigger picture.
Like Az has done a great job at proving that I'm town. Do I think that clears him? No, not at all.
Cythare seemed kinda townie, and while Jobie mucked things up, someone did say that Cythare hates being town and his play fits his MO as town.
I could be persuaded to lynch you before Az, maybe? Make a case and I'll consider it.
Can't Az just be jockeying for town points by unreasonably declaring Seppel town right now? He hasn't even explained WHY he thinks Seppel is town, even though he spent most of yesterday calling Seppel scum, including almost lynching him when Az himself was under fire. He is just trying to get townie points here. Plus Chris literally listed Seppel/Proph as his Top 2? He hasn't explained anything EVER. None of his scum reads. But he sure recanted that Proph scum read with the flimsiest of explanations possible. All of his posts are just theoretical doubletalk nonsense. Jesus.
Like. It should tell everyone all that they need to know that Az refused to name 2 people as scum. He just wants to keep his second option open. This is as anti-town behavior, in this game state, as can be. I am frustrated as can be right now with all of you for refusing to lynch him. Some *****ty vig claim being blocked by a RB that we have no other verification of should not just be forever buoyed against his thoroughly AWFUL behavior. Especially for you, GJ, given that you he is in your Top 2. This is garbage.
And he has the audacity to ******* call me scum? I have done everything I can to help the town make the right choices this game? I have shed metaphoric blood. Like I am so tempted right now to just quote my role PM and get modkilled and quit. Az could probably claim SK variant and you guys would find some excuse to not ******* lynch him at this point. He has done NOTHING pro-town this whole goddamned game. Actual stone nothing. He sat around the side lines yesterday with his vote on WG for awhile, and when pressure started to be on Az, he MOVED HIS VOTE TO SOMEONE ELSE. This is literally one of the biggest pieces of evidence of someone being scum that can exist in the game. And nobody cares because of a vig claim that has never been proven and might not even be proven. I almost want Az to be scum and to win.
I literally cannot remember the last time I was this frustrated at the game of mafia. I have given Az every opportunity to show why he is town, and he has made the scummy choice E-V-E-R-Y time.
If we can't lynch Az, can people PLEASE just vote Seppel already so that this day can be over and I can stop suffering. This is not fun.
Sigh..I just have so much wrapped up in this game. You guys don't get it. This is the end of an era for me. This is not 'a break'. This is the last game I will play in with many of you, and I just want to get things right. It is so unlikely that I will ever play another game of mafia after the Stargate League one, and most of you aren't in that. I want to do my absolute best. It's more than just about winning this one game. I've won and lost hundreds of mafia games now, one more is..whatever. I want to be right and be triumphant against all of this adversity re: Azrael at this point. More than anything else, more than I want to win this game, I want to be right on this one point. But if I'm not..I'm not. I'll live. But I just want to know. But for that to happen..the game has to proceed, not drag on endlessly like this. I've been trying to get the same 3 people lynched for like a month now. And I'm just exhausted. I just want this lynch to happen so that we(if I somehow don't get NKed, which seems legit impossible) hopefully another dead scum, or at least more information to work with.
I just have nothing else to say at this point. I'm going to be sad if Seppel flips town, even though I don't know HOW he can, but hopefully you guys can parlay that into figuring our who the last 2 scum are.
Also I'm not today's lynch, just fyi. We lose autowin status if we lynch me, so I can't let that happen.
If you need me to 100% find another scum in order to not lynch me, let me know. I'm checked out, but I will put in the effort if necessary.
I'm actually pretty sure GJ is scum, anyway. His attack on me is just so WRONG that I can't imagine he actually believes what he's typing about me.
@Cyan: Just to see if I'm way off base here, do you think GJ believes what he's typing about me? You've seen how checked out I am, and GJ concocts this master plan I'm supposedly making? Like what the hell is he even talking about?
It's almost as if you don't want to be tied down tomorrow to a specific read.
I caught the exact same thing you did. Cyan, trust me, Az dies tomorrow. I don't even you think you will get enough support from me. Me, you, Proph. Christ won't budge until Seppel is dealt with, Taaredas likely won't either.
He hasn't even explained WHY he thinks Seppel is town, even though he spent most of yesterday calling Seppel scum, including almost lynching him when Az himself was under fire.
I am just going to pick out this particular sentence, point you in the direction of my massive PBPA, and let you take some deep breaths.
I suppose I'll also remind you that I specifically stated that I'm town-reading everyone except GJ, including you, and that I didn't even put you in the first three players of my reread, which means that you're right in the middle of the pack with all the players I'm town-reading. You'll also note that I even put Chris on my list of players to reread, simply because I haven't done it. I'm at the point where I'm trying to be thorough and cover all bases, rather than going off any strong hunches that I have, aside from GJ.
Seppel is not going to flip scum. He has far too many reliable town indicators. He *could* be faking them - but you could very well be pulling a page from my book of tricks from Cross-town 3 and counting on players to false-clear you based on a ridiculously over-the-top emotional facade. I think that's somewhat less likely to be the case than that you're just raging out though, and similarly, I'm skeptical that Seppel's townie tells are faked as well. I'm actually far more confident in Seppel's towniness, because the townie tells he's mimicking are far less over-the-top and obvious than your theatrics in this game. They're subtle, and understated, and they match perfectly with his actions.
But, I'm running low on options, so the thought of whether you're conning us does enter the realm of possibility. It would be one hell of a way to top off your career as scum, a performance that I've never seen equalled. But all those thoughts are just smoke until I get a chance to actually think over and digest your entire posting history.
The one thing I'm sure of, the one thing we've actually agreed on today, is that GJ is scum. Before you talked your way out of it by considering pairings theory, you were completely on the right track.
The reason that I wanted to lynch Az first is because I think he is scum regardless of Seppel's flip. I understand people wanting to lynch Seppel first. I just know that, if Seppel flips town, I am going to get NK'ed, and then no one is going to want to lynch the 'claimed Vig' tomorrow and you're just going to forget about Az and only try and find the other guy instead. But like I said, I think Az is scum no matter what Seppel flips. So please, if I die tonight, lynch Az tomorrow.
@Seppel: We have to lynch you, because I can't convince people to lynch Az, and there really isn't a viable candidate beyond that. Your lynch has a very high probability of resulting in a dead scum, and is a literal motherload of information. And from OUR perspective of you being unknown, there is no such thing as 'auto-win' status. And if you are town, Az is like..practically auto-scum? So it's a chance we have to take, and then just hope we don't miss again. Truthfully, if I had my way, I would lynch AZ *first* at this point, but it's not my unilateral decision to make, sadly. SC, GJ, and Jobie won't go along. And Az is pretty obviously not going to vote himself, so that's not enough votes to get a lynch. If you're town, you're just going to have to get sacrificed, and then if we lynch Az and he flips scum, the final day will have to be used to figure out which of those 3 is Az's scumbuddy that wouldn't play ball.
I don't know what you're talking about re: GJ. I feel good about GJ, but maybe he just played his cards exactly right today to fool me. Apparently scum have gotten good at that lately. :/ And you telling us 'I'm only willing put in the work if you're not going to lynch me' reads like a 100% scum tell, honestly. It doesn't help your cause that your top 2 scum reads are Az and Jobie, when they tried to bumrush Proph coming into the day. You keep ignoring this point, but as mafia, they clearly would have just sat around with their thumbs up their asses while we murdered you, you know? Like they literally could have let the town do it and protested meekly. You know, exactly like Az is doing now.
You know what, I probably shouldn't do this because my head says no but...
##unvote: Seppel
##vote: Azrael
I just can't deny your heart right now Cyan. Like mafia is more than just the end result, sometimes it's about the adventure. I think I am right on this but god damn I can feel the burning passion just bleed off you. Plus it seems almost everyone wants to lynch Az tomorrow anyway. **** it, all hail Cyan.
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Ugh. I feel so schizophrenic right now. I went back and read some of my previous analyses of Seppel, prior to my PPBA, and then went back and read over my own PBPA. My previous analysis of Seppel was that he made a lot of terse one-liner statements that were hard to read reliably. And then when going over my PBPA, I noticed again all the times I wrote comments like "anti-town, but..." or "wrong-headed, but..." And it's possible that some of the places I was picking genuine tone ("this page was boring, someone PBPA me"), I was picking up very genuine thoughts, but not alignment indicative genuine thoughts.
I don't know which type of analysis to use to filter my read on him. Mindset and tone, which is weak against savvy scum, or anti-town effect, which is less accurate generally speaking but more accurate against smart scum than mindset. But I still think that is a debate that is best resolved tomorrow.
I'm going to get to that case on GJ. He's the one player who is completely failing my town-detection sense, and I saw a ton of artificiality and anti-town play on my read-through.
Oh please don't let me be trapping myself here. Please, please, please. Let me have the one final correct moment. One time, dealer. One. Time. Unvote, Vote Azrael
You know this is normally where I'd break out the evil laughter but I don't have the heart to screw with you right now. Rest easy, man.
Private Mod Note
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Ugh. I feel so schizophrenic right now. I went back and read some of my previous analyses of Seppel, prior to my PPBA, and then went back and read over my own PBPA. My previous analysis of Seppel was that he made a lot of terse one-liner statements that were hard to read reliably. And then when going over my PBPA, I noticed again all the times I wrote comments like "anti-town, but..." or "wrong-headed, but..." And it's possible that some of the places I was picking genuine tone ("this page was boring, someone PBPA me"), I was picking up very genuine thoughts, but not alignment indicative genuine thoughts.
I don't know which type of analysis to use to filter my read on him. Mindset and tone, which is weak against savvy scum, or anti-town effect, which is less accurate generally speaking but more accurate against smart scum than mindset. But I still think that is a debate that is best resolved tomorrow.
I'm going to get to that case on GJ. He's the one player who is completely failing my town-detection sense, and I saw a ton of artificiality and anti-town play on my read-through.
If you flip town and I somehow survive the night, I promise to dig into him with a fine-tooth comb tomorrow. If I don't, I'm sure SC will. And if you are town..I'm sorry.
How about we have Cyan's shining moment be being actually right about GJ, and being able to put aside his ridiculous hard-on for me that defies any actual reading comprehension, logic, or acquaintance with actual facts?
The one moment we had Cyan actually playing at his full, old potential, was that GJ case. It wasn't perfect, he slipped in some questionable logic in a few places, but it was solid sleuth-work, and it was actually on target. He played actual mafia, and he got the right result.
That's the Cyan I want to remember, not the one that's foaming at the mouth, grasping at straws, using the term "100% scum" in every other sentence because he so desperately is looking for vindication in all the wrong places, instead of playing with discipline and thoughtfulness.
I'd love for Cyan to go out with a good game, and this sure as hell is not it. Give me the shot to prove that Cyan was right about GJ, for that brief shining moment when he remembered how mafia players are supposed to play this game. With thoughtfulness, attention to detail, and with an open and understanding mind.
lol @ grasping at straws. 5 minutes ago, YOU tried to call ME scum.
Like..does GJ running himself out here and over-committing himself today to get you lynched make sense? Are you worth 1 for 1ing right now? Is any townie EVER worth 1 for 1ing?
Hmm. I'm probably dead tonight under all circumstances. If Az dies and flips town, tomorrow, look for a connection between..GJ and Proph.
It feels like GJ became most interested in lynching AZ after Az started running for Proph today and/or announced that he had tried to Vig Proph. And specifically, this is the literal only scenario where it makes sense for GJ to 1 for 1 himself to get Az lynched. Of course, if Az flips scum this is irrelevant. Just some food for thought in case I die.
If this connection seems tenable, I recommend lynching GJ first, as he seems the more likely of the two to be scum, and then working out the rest.
lol @ grasping at straws. 5 minutes ago, YOU tried to call ME scum.
Like..does GJ running himself out here and over-committing himself today to get you lynched make sense? Are you worth 1 for 1ing right now? Is any townie EVER worth 1 for 1ing?
Every single post you make, you aren't even reading the literal meaning of the words in my posts correctly. Every single time, your brain rewrites and replaces them into something which fits the world view you want to exist, instead of dealing with reality.
Hmm. I'm probably dead tonight under all circumstances. If Az dies and flips town, tomorrow, look for a connection between..GJ and Proph.
It feels like GJ became most interested in lynching AZ after Az started running for Proph today and/or announced that he had tried to Vig Proph. And specifically, this is the literal only scenario where it makes sense for GJ to 1 for 1 himself to get Az lynched. Of course, if Az flips scum this is irrelevant. Just some food for thought in case I die.
If this connection seems tenable, I recommend lynching GJ first, as he seems the more likely of the two to be scum, and then working out the rest.
Why would the scum ever kill you? All you do right now is feed them mislynches by picking random people and misinterpreting everything they say.
Of course GJ goes with this lynch. He already set himself up to jump on the wagon early in the day, he's dying regardless in the next 2-3 days, and you're all so impatient to avoid actually playing the game and reading people that there's a good chance I'll be dead before I can even complete this PBPA. 1 for 1? No. A free lynch that they should never have gotten close to scoring on, if the town's only player who's firing on all cylinders hadn't decided to play for funsies, and the rest of the town is suffering from varying degrees of catatonia.
I disagree Chris. The order is completely irrelevant, we just need to make sure the rest of the town play nicely.
Taredas, based on his comments probably has me/seppel as his two. He is welcome to correct me.
In the meantime Chris, Vote please?
At this point? Az/Seppel.
There's two reasons for that. The first is the thing I was redacting about Az earlier (the *other* reason I scrapped a post earlier, along with Proph's 1538 - Az dropped his towncase on Seppel while I was typing): "If I'm wrong and Az is scum, he is probably specifically scum with Seppel". Basically, Az's towncase on Cythare read sincere to me... but his towncase on Seppel *didn't*. If those were both *scumreads*, I'd chainlynch Az and the insincere scumread in a heartbeat - that's Fadeblue in Amistarian 3 (so named after how Fadeblue sounded completely sincere about attacking AI and so insincere attacking other players), which is one of my best tells. In theory, that should work in reverse, but I've never actually seen scum towncase their partners so I wanted corroborating evidence.
That's most of why I pushed everyone off Az earlier toDay - I wanted to evaluate how Az acted when the pressure dissipated and hopefully see his attack tone. That's also the ultimate reason I tried that "willing to lynch Seppel on Wednesday" gambit: Az vanished when the pressure on him let up on him and I wanted to see if he would come back when pressure was placed on Seppel (that's why I posted the gambit on Saturday night specifically - the alternative explanation was that Az just became more busy, probably due to a weekend event, and if Az became more active on Sunday after I cased Seppel his vanishing was significantly more likely to come from scum), and I asked for town and scum cases from Az specifically to hopefully get another towncase to compare the Seppel case to and a scumcase to evaluate attack tone. I asked for a secondary scumread from Proph both as a smokescreen and to test Az/Proph/Wheat (barring me being completely off on attack tone, the *only* way I could be wrong about Proph after 1538 was if the scumteam was exactly Az/Proph/Wheat).
But as it turns out that gambit failing was irrelevant, because I was reading over the thread today (both to check for evidence of Az/Seppel and to evaluate the Az/Proph corner case) and noticed a smoking gun I missed when I looked over Az earlier:
1. He may have thought your lynch was building too quickly and worried that he actually WOULD have been blamed if you flipped town, especially since a number of players stated their violent opposition to your wagon.
2. He may have foreseen your wagon was going to fall apart shortly, and didn't feel a need to stay on it in favor of a more viable target.
3. He might have felt that it was necessary to jump off your wagon in order to better emulate his own townie play, prioritizing maintaining his cover over the quick kill.
4. He might have done it for WIFOM purposes, so he or a scum-buddy could make that argument in his defense.
5. You could be scum-buddies and he didn't want to kill you.
I have no particular reason to espouse any of those alternatives, but I dislike pushing the notion that Proph is cleared on such a weak and flimsy basis.
I'm rereading him and comparing his meta before I decide whether he ought to be finished off. I'm not leading anyone off his wagon...
These are all of Az's posts on the Proph wagon D1. For context, the GJ and Proph wagons are tied at four votes at 240 (there's a vote count immediately thereafter, which I'm not quoting because this post will be long enough as it is.)
After 240, the Proph wagon escalates to L-1 after Iso, Rhand, and Wheat jump on (and only fails to go through because Cyan unvotes). Az's next post is 302, where he's suddenly doubting whether Proph will flip scum. But... when the Proph wagon loses momentum, Az insists that he isn't trying to "lead anyone off Proph".
Like, how is that a town thought process? I mean, I can understand a townie being shaken by the rapid development of the Proph wagon or by Proph's claim + final reads post, but I'd expect them to explain *why* they were no longer sure, and I definitely *wouldn't* expect them to claim that they weren't trying to lead anyone off Proph, because if you're town attacking town you *want* people to back off - that gives you time to reevaluate, and you can always round people back up on the wagon later, especially if you're a town leader archetype (which Az is).
No, I think Az got caught with his hand in the cookie jar - he *KNEW* Proph would flip town and wanted to distance himself from the wagon before that happened, but the wagon disintegrated and left him scrambling to cover up what he was actually doing.
Unvote, Vote Azrael
---
Two quick notes:
A) If I get shot overnight and I'm right about Az and wrong about Seppel, take a good look at Sir Chris. It's *possible* that SC was able to fake sincerity while defending a scumbuddy D2 and was staying on Wheat D1 is because he got called on attacking Wheat without committing to him and then committed to the bus, and looking over D2 Sir Chris favored Seppel over Wheat for most of D2 while still scumreading Wheat (aka "Tar distancing tactic #1"). Not sure Wheat/Az/SC is a *likely* world, but it's possible and Proph, Cyan, and I are all town and I have doubts about Az/Jobie (would require Az to be *more* genuine reading a scumbuddy than a townie) so the only other plausible Az-but-not-Seppel world is Az/GJ. (Actually, might need to just take a second look at Sir Chris period? Wheat/GJ/SC is a corner case, especially since I'm not sure what SC would white-knight town!Az D2, but I'm not sure we can rule it out.)
B) If I'm somehow wrong about Az, GJ is very likely scum - looking over D1, Seppel/Jobie probably aren't scumbuddies (there's the neutral question Seppel asked Cythare D1 that I noted yesterDay, and Seppel's actions re: the early Cythare wagon don't feel like scumbuddy actions) and GJ is scum in every other plausible world (GJ/Jobie, GJ/Seppel, and the GJ/SC corner case).
@Cyan You actually believe that out of Az/GJ, I am the likely scum, despite all the double talk Azrael has done? I will literally give you the play by play when tomorrow starts if I die and flip town. "With GJ flipping town, I must be wrong about one of the people I town cleared today. HMMMM, MAYBE SEPPEL/PROPH COULD BE SCUM AFTER ALL...." You know it, I know it, the whole bleeding game knows it. If Azrael is truly that confidant that I am scum, it is pretty easy to PoE the potential scummates down, and try to case one of them rather than me. After all, my slot should be double lynched and burned, the moderator might as well just line up that red text. Why not put a case up for the potential partner? Why is one name not sticking out more than another? It's a shame that he locked himself out of Seppel, and the only tiniest sliver of a doubt I have on Az is that of all the players to lock himself out of, why Seppel?
You know what? I just realized Seppel is probably the roleblocker. That would explain why Az is so hellbent on locking himself out of Seppel for potential lynches. If he died first, Seppel could potentially shift the blame to me/Jobie. If Seppel dies first, Az is literally cooked, short of slow rolling a tough guy shot, which he would have to either narrow PoE down harder, or kill someone almost auto town and draw suspicion.
Quote from Azrael »
Of course GJ goes with this lynch. He already set himself up to jump on the wagon early in the day, he's dying regardless in the next 2-3 days, and you're all so impatient to avoid actually playing the game and reading people that there's a good chance I'll be dead before I can even complete this PBPA. 1 for 1? No. A free lynch that they should never have gotten close to scoring on, if the town's only player who's firing on all cylinders hadn't decided to play for funsies, and the rest of the town is suffering from varying degrees of catatonia.
It's not a 1 for 1 if you're already caught.
I said both today and yesterday that the scum team was in the cluster of you, WG, Cythare/Jobie, and Seppel. Got WG yesterday, and we have two mislynches. That's literally game, even if we hit the townie in that pile before the other two scum. There is no one else in that pile I would even consider as scum.
He's the one player who is completely failing my town-detection sense and I saw a ton of artificiality and anti-town play on my read-through.
I can literally point to the posts where you implied a town read on me.
I stopped that post when I saw Taredas's post halfway through.
My ******* heart. If Az flips town, the only two people who should be considered for tomorrow are myself and Jobie. I will PBPA duel the ever living crap out of him, and prove it is him/Seppel.
If he flips scum, lynch me tomorrow for all I bloody care, as long as Seppel is the day after.
Cyan, if you lynch me anyways after this, you owe me another game after this one.
Quote from GJ »
..does not seem like you are being serious, hence my first comment. You do seem to get serious in the same post with your vote towards Cythare, and I found it strange you added something after super recently voting Seppel. Whether you are scum reading Seppel or not though, that still doesn't explain why you wouldn't want Seppel to figure out why you are voting him. Heck, even your questions aimed in the first page seemed.....rather silly to ask, don't you think? What possible information were you hoping to delve?
@Az
I have two problems with this, even ignoring the fact that Iso was clearly acting silly in some of his posts: 1). An echo chamber implies that there are at least a few people scum reading Iso. Rhand is an RVS vote, and Cythare is only the psuedo serious vote, with rather vague/cryptic reasoning. I don't quite see where I am echoing the group and 2). Why did you choose the choice of words of "anti-Iso" sentiments. Why would you not simply call it something along the lines of a bandwagon vote?
@Rhand
That is oddly specific.
@Seppel:
The tone you get in this post is one that will recur throughout the remainder of his posts. I tend to think of it as the overzealous prosecutor, tell.
Most of his interactions involve him looking for a way to be skeptical of the person he's talking to, or critiquing. It's a combative, adversarial mindset, which fits naturally within the mode of play for someone who views himself as on opposite sides of the team from most of the people he's conversing with.
It also lets you know that the player is being artificial in their interactions with other players, because when their invariable response is to look for ways to pick stuff apart, it's not a natural townie thought process, and it indicates an objective-based approach that is focused on creating mislynches rather than arriving at reads organically.
See below for more examples of this:
Quote from GJ »
Clearly, that was my only reason for voting you. It had nothing to do with the fact that I felt your questions to be inconsistent towards other players, and even your set of questions, I am having a hard time finding their motivation:
Quote from GJ »
Like seriously, what smoking gun were you expecting from Cythare or Seppel that would condemn or clear respectively?
Quote from GJ »
Amusing. How many of those do we need to see flip town before you get strung up?
Quote from GJ »
Everyone seems at least somewhat interested in Cythare. I might look at him later, but I doubt I could find anything in his/her few posts that hasn't already been covered. I am more interested in other avenues for now.
Quote from GJ »
Quote from GJ »
Quote from GJ »
Quote from GJ »
Because everyone else is interested in Cythare, he avoids the wagon, without expressing his opinion. That's a very good way to avoid getting caught as a bandwagon voter, while still allowing the town to mislynch. But, he also doesn't foreclose the possibility of jumping on the wagon later, if it needs a judicious nudge. Textbook.
Quote from GJ »
I didn't vote him for messing around. I voted him for inconsistencies in his questioning of Cythare versus Seppel. Besides, according to him, every post except his "first" has been a serious vote.
I do not know how you can ask everyone to start providing explanation, and in the same breathe, vote me without a reason. Care to explain?
Quote from GJ »
rollseyes:
Tell me this though, here is your rubric:
Can you show your work, at what part was Cythare's answer "incorrect" to kill with fire? 1-3 seem ridiculous, 4 seems like a meta question, and the bonus question seems lazy by design.
@Seppel/SirChris:
I ask questions about that in all of my games, as it helps to explain justifications for players lumping scum together, just as Iso has done. My reasoning for the question was I wanted to see how he was reading since it seemed my only reason for being on his list is he thinks my interaction with Cyathare is scum on scum. So if one of us is town, what is the other? I merely through SC's name in there so it wasn't blatantly obvious.
@Sir Chris:
You are going to have to explain why that is slimy I made this post:
Yet, you didn't even blink. Surely this is a better example of "trying to make Iso look bad."
All the above were taken from the very first page of GJ's ISO results, and I expect you'll see many, many more like them on the subsequent pages. For now, returning to your regularly scheduled programming with some different varieties of tells:
Quote from GJ »
@ZDS
I don't have a solid read on cythare. While I wait to see if that changes, I am looking elsewhere.
Quote from GJ »
Well, Iso humor me. If cythare flips town, does your read on me or Chris change?
GJ fields questions regarding Cythare and his dodge away from that wagon, intelligently spotted by ZDS at the time. And in the next post, despite not having a read on Cythare and acknowledging potential interest in a Cythare wagon later on, he now seems to be suggesting to Iso that Cythare will flip town. That isn't a natural supposition from someone with ambivalent feelings towards Cythare. It smacks of superior knowledge, and smugness, which you'll also see on display when he butts heads with Iso later on.
Quote from GJ »
roph (no stated reason) Seppel, (no stated reason), Sir Chris (Well, let's just say I'd be voting me too if I were him, rather than wait for pressure to build up), Iso (probably scum).
How about a gamble Iso? I would rather get lynched now just stick it to your arrogant brain than to listen to how you solved the game day 1. Let's lynch me day 1, see if you caught me that easily, and move on to tomorrow. If I flip anything other than town, well, you are the best ^^. But I flip yown, we lynch you tomorrow, no breaks, you die. But on the brightside, we kill a scum you for little old me. Or, if you flip town, maybe SC and Cythare will be more appealing to the rest of the town
Unvote Iso, Vote GJ. Put your money where your mouth is.
First off, read this, and then ponder which alignment gets offended by an Iso who claims to have solved the game on day one? Which alignment feels insulted by that position? The one who believes Iso is a potentially misguided teammate, or the one who believes Iso is denigrating his skill and ability?
There was no great friction between Iso and GJ building up to this. The challenge comes out of nowhere. That lack of traceability suggests manipulation and calculation, which GJ actually comes straight out and admits not long afterwards!
Quote from GJ »
*shrugs* 6 other people have to agree to it. The self vote is nothing more than flare, admittedly. What I am curious about is that he didn't say screw you and go after Cythare. If he is that confidant Cythare is scum, surely he could get him, if Cythare flips scum, I would be a super easy sink tomorrow for him on a scumCythare flip where he wouldn't need to make a silly gamble with me. What that tells me is him going with this gambit means he does not trust his Cythare read enough. That information is satisfactory for me.
That's the problem though, you think he is right about Cythare. I don't. In fact, the more I look at the interaction, the more I would suspicious about anyone on the Cythare wagon. I would also be wary of Seppel, as he is usually more erratic with his vote as town.
"Nothing more than flare", he calls his self-vote. Not an honest reaction in anger, not an attempt to prove that Iso was deeply off his rocker and to chastise him for his arrogance, it's "flare". Trickery.
And from there, he goes on to launch an extremely bogus attack on Iso to top it off.
Quote from GJ »
And context does matter. I am hunting Iso, and want him to commit to a read. Since his read on me is seemingly based on my interaction with a player he is heavily scum reading, it would make sense to see if something with that player changes, does anything else change.
Retcon of the Cythare question is heavily bogus.
Quote from GJ »
Explain. You have the highest probability of being mis-lynched after me or Cythare, especially if we play "Follow the Iso." Cythare lynched and flipping town would make Iso look terrible. Based on the attitudes of other players, there is enough dislike of you, especially after Iso flips town (remember XKCD where the town went after his suspects almost immediately after his death) that I could get you lynched easily.
Of course, you realize your scenario is completely in a vacuum, as everyone else has been static except us 4. In fact, I don't even know the other two scum players, or if Cythare would claim a role making him unlynchable *shrugs*
Woah. Check this out.
GJ, on post 163, tells Sir Chris that SC has the highest chance of being mislynched after himself or Cythare.
Previously, GJ has given no concrete reasons why Cythare isn't scum, let alone Sir Chris. It's far too soon to have a confident read on a player like Sir Chris as town at post 163- why use the word mislynch? And why consiciously assess other players according to their mislynch potential, based on dislike, than assess players on their actual likelihood of being scum.
This is a very significant mindset slip, and if GJ flips town, indicates both a town Cythare and a town SC.
Quote from GJ »
I myself have only been mislynched one time in my three years here. Admittedly, I drew scum more than town until recently, but still. =/
SC, you will lynch Iso tomorrow, right?
The tone is off, here. He feels trapped.
Quote from GJ »
You seem nervous Chris. Why would you not suspect Iso after a flipped town me. You clearly think Iso is town, and apparently Cythare as well. If i flip scum, there is nothing to worry about so since you seem so sure about scum me, what's the issue? Also, who are your three scum reads if I flip town?
Quote from GJ »
Except, I'm going to flip town. So, is iso wrong about all three?
Look at him trying to squirm away from the bargain he himself proposed, as he nears pressure. These questions are designed to get the other players to think about scenarios where he isn't scum. Very slick, subtle move for scum to make. Point them down the right path, and set their minds on the track you want them to continue on.
Quote from GJ »
I stopped reading WG's post halfway through "some of GJ's ideas" were ok, and immediately knew he would be for my lynch =).
A little inside knowledge probably didn't hurt on that.
Quote from GJ »
Your case on Rhand was sloppy and the questions seemed really off, with me calling you on it (and being wrong mind you, but it still made me suspect you, and ignroe Rhand).
In Full Deck, you read me as scum based on some gotcha read. That's what I feel you are doing to Cythare this game, but using these obscure questions instead of seeing if someone "voted" for them. You still haven't explained the purpose, or what answers you were expecting from those questions.
More negativity.
Quote from GJ »
I am reading. You are doing a poor job of explaining. I asked for the rubric, you explained the purpose, but not why say a "snarky" answer would be indictive of scum.
@Seppel: Why are you boring proph, and who is Iso wrong about?
More negativity, coupled with a tone that's inconsistent with him reading iso as scum, as he'd suggested throughout.
Quote from GJ »
I do, but I don't think I agree with that line of logic. Would you not agree that your analysis is highly subjective?
These leading questions of his, man.
Quote from GJ »
So you think all 3 of us have just been giving each other reach-arounds, and everyone else is town this game?
Azreal's response of "I was well aware that others were commenting on how scummy it was" looks like an absolute cop out. Unvote GJ, Vote Azreal. Chris's 344 looks like a complete bus post.
Skewers WG, then votes for Azrael anyways, and for an awful reason full of inconsistencies.
GJ had said that Sir Chris looked like the most likely mislynch - now he says it's a bus. But he doesn't even vote for the person who he believes to be bussing, on whom the tell is predicated, but he votes against the bus-target.
Quote from GJ »
Cythare: I was null reading him before, and most of my leaning town read was more because I was reading you as scum pushing Cythare for answering your questions "incorrectly". What I dislike currently is he really just slipped under the radar, after attention shifted, stated dislike of me, but really did nothing to pursue that read, or even vote me. I couldn't even guess what his scum list looked like right now which bothers me.
ZDS: No real read. I feel nothing looking at him. His questions towards me haven't felt scummy, but he isn't really radiating townie vibes if that makes sense.
Proph: Strong town read. No one was even looking at him when I was at L-2. I can't fathom why he would unvote me, without even pushing for a claim first, or waiting to see if I would claim. Giving up what would have been an easy mislynch for town credit makes zero sense.
Azrael: It feels like he is trying really hard to hide his reads, although he took a decent stance on me. I am leaning town on him though, but if he stays waiting in the weeds tomorrow, I will likely edit this stance.
Sir Chris: Leaning scum. I haven't liked a single post he has pushed towards me, and his whole rhetoric of "my play looks so townie, it must be scum" reads incredibly insincere. His reads don't seem to fit his actions, and he isn't doing anything to pursue either of his other two scum reads, or even state them.
Check out the way he writes these reads. He's bouncing between both hyperbole tells and scum-wavering. And where is his position on WG? It's not mentioned, despite the question from earlier where he utterly skewered WG's logic. Now, he's shifted to leaving him alone and deflecting instead.
Quote from GJ »
unvote, Vote Sir Chris.
I have no idea how you went from az to wheat without even mentioning me. Did your read on me disappear all of a sudden?
If it wasn't obvious before, I am vanilla town.
Silly reason for a vote, and still furiously deflecting away from the WG wagon. First he tried deflecting to me, now he's trying to deflect to Chris.
Here, you guys can digest this portion while I move on to the next segment.
Every single post you make, you aren't even reading the literal meaning of the words in my posts correctly. Every single time, your brain rewrites and replaces them into something which fits the world view you want to exist, instead of dealing with reality.
Let's review. Today starts. First, you and Jobie try to bumrush Proph. If Proph is scum, this is pretty awful for the scumteam. But unless the scumteam is exactly Seppel/Proph, it's salvageable. But if this the scumteam, it does not explain GJ's actions toward you, so..today makes no sense.
And let's talk about GJ some more. GJ is sitting here touting himself as a master scum player. Who actually does that WHILE THEY ARE SCUM? Nobody. You know what people do while they are scum? Downplay their capabilities. Because that is smart. Because you know what townies do when you tell them 'I'm a great scum player?' They react *exactly like Sir Chris did*. This ***** isn't rocket science.
And don't act high and mighty with me. If you're town this game, you deserve to get lynched. You've been given 7,000 opportunities to be a contributing member of the town and play a positive town game. You've failed 7,001 times. You got run up legitimately and forced to claim on DAY 1. And of course, you declined to answer my question about the last time you were forced to claim on Day 1 as town. But I know a time recently you were forced to claim on Day 1 in general, which was CT3. Granted, we bussed the ***** out of you that game, but it doesn't matter. It still took 4 townies to come along, and one of them(Iso) to get the ball rolling. Anyway, I digress somewhat. Your play has been miserable. I'm happy to continue this discussion with you post-game, where we can bring in plenty of other voices, and I will firmly stand my ground. At no point EVER have you tried to promote the town agenda. I've already said this so many times so far, that I don't think it needs to be repeated.
And GJ was not 'already caught'. He could have sat around in the background and just went along with the Seppel lynch that was literally a foregone conclusion as of yesterday. If he and Seppel are scumbuddies, he could have found a way to aggressively push that lynch, instead of randomly deciding that it was a super great idea to start pushing your lynch out of nowhere.
Like I said. If you are town, the only scum team that makes sense for GJ to be a part of is GJ/Proph, and that can be explored later. But it just doesn't make sense for you to be town. If you are fine. But you have no one but yourself to blame for your lynch. Period. I've made some questionable lynches happen in the past. I feel bad for getting on the ZDS wagon toward the end of Day 1. I didn't feel great about it, but the deadline was incoming, blahblah. I don't feel bad about your lynch. You brought it on yourself. Repeatedly.
And it's not 'random people'. I've looked at every single person in this game and had varying stances on ALL OF THEM. I've even had times when I thought you were town for brief moments. But you just keep changing my mind. You just continue to act like scum, over and over and over.
And I get it. You're bitter. And that bitterness could be genuine. But you could easily be faking it; it's not hard. We don't have the luxury of giving you the benefit of the doubt here.
@Sir Chris. Or..do we? There is a pretty apparent dichotomy here between GJ and Az. One of them is scum, and one is not. I can't even conceive of a scum team that exists that doesn't include one of these two. I'm actually feeling pretty good(in a town way) about Jobie right now at this point, I think so..Should we lynch GJ today instead? What do you think. Unvote momentarily while we discuss this.
I don't have a solid read on cythare. While I wait to see if that changes, I am looking elsewhere.
Because everyone else is interested in Cythare, he avoids the wagon, without expressing his opinion. That's a very good way to avoid getting caught as a bandwagon voter, while still allowing the town to mislynch. But, he also doesn't foreclose the possibility of jumping on the wagon later, if it needs a judicious nudge. Textbook.
So you're dead. Don't slowroll me. What is your real alignment? If you are town, I will give you one more future game, which we both find to be a satisfactory setup. But if you're scum, this is literally my crowning moment.
Why is me/Seppel or me Jobie an impossible team Cyan? In order for it to be me and Proph, I would have decided to hold both my teamates super tight, and then turn on them immediately the day after.
I stopped that post when I saw Taredas's post halfway through.
My ******* heart. If Az flips town, the only two people who should be considered for tomorrow are myself and Jobie. I will PBPA duel the ever living crap out of him, and prove it is him/Seppel.
If he flips scum, lynch me tomorrow for all I bloody care, as long as Seppel is the day after.
Well, you're pretty clearly not scum together, weirdo. But this is a pretty flustered post, I don't know if you could fake it.
This is so exciting. I can't remember the last time I was this intrigued to know a flip. It's like being a mafia newb all over again.
@Taredas: SC has genuine town emotional leaks in literally ALL of the right spots, there's no way he is scum. I was just needling him a bit earlier, and even then he responding in JUSt the right way.
You, however, I'm not so sure about, depending on Az's flip. Your 'toward the end of day' posts have come across as scummy to me almost every time now.
Why is me/Seppel or me Jobie an impossible team Cyan? In order for it to be me and Proph, I would have decided to hold both my teamates super tight, and then turn on them immediately the day after.
I don't know. I've been around enough to see everything. You always ask the weirdest questions, heh.
Even if you think I am scum and just WIFOMING the crap out of you with my Proph buddying, I can't see how you can ignore both Taredas and Chris (with a town seppel) believing him to be town as well.
It isn't a scum hunting question, it's a "I am not following your mindset" question.
If I remember correctly, you had a leaning scum read on me several pages ago. How is your read of me now, and what posts of Iso specifically are making you feel worse about him?
I am not lynching ZDS over SC.
Everyone remember this piece of absolute awfulness?
Quote from GJ »
That list by ZDS is absolutely awful. Wheat is his only scum read, with Rhand by association? DCIII is the only other read that could be a potential scum read.
Chris is in spite mode for whatever reason. I strongly suggest Cyan/Azreal figure out a pool of people for potential kills/cops that don't intertwine. Figure out the vanillas, the PRs should sort themselves out in relatively good form.
Hey, look over there, a THIRD alternative to actually lynching WG. Let's make sure we jump on board bc...bc...because ZDS only has a read on one person as scum on day one, the same as everyone else?
And that makes the list "absolutely awful", to the point you'll flip your entire read around. Bull. *****.
Quote from GJ »
HAAAAAMMMMMEEEEERRRRRR
Unvote SC, Vote ZDS
I've said this once and I'll say it again. The way he styled this post, you can see that he knew what he was doing was ballsy, and he's hamming it up for all it's worth because he knows he's taking a risk. But the risks results in deflecting from WG, which has transparently been his primary objective for the last dozen or so posts. It's a calculated risk, and for quite a long time, it worked far better than it had any right to do. There was zero meaningful follow-up on him the next day.
Quote from GJ »
I still think 1 of the PRs is lying. While Cyan's is the easiest to fake, I think the liar is either Az/Iso. There are several reasons he could be lying as a vig, and Iso's role is kind of the obvious scum role, which makes me hesitant to think he would be bold enough to claim it as town. However, as I said, the PRs will deal with each other.
Look at GJ directing the power roles to "resolve" one another, and pushing the poison pill of speculating on role analysis over behavior.
Quote from GJ »
I am predicting the scum team in some cluster of Azreal, Cythare, Chris, Wheat. Iso flipping means if a PR is lying, I think its probably Az, but like someone already said, it will resolve itself.
Az, humor me. You got roleblocked (fine, fine). You are relatively insistent that one of me or WG is scum, why is your vote on neither one of us?
*frowns* I should have dealt with both of them immediately, if only I had the time.
First problem with this is he's now including wheat as his distant fourth alternative scum, when he spent literally all of the previous day's endgame deflecting as hard as he could away from Wheat, no less than three separate times during the run-up to the lynch.
The other problem with this post is that in his previous post, he identified both me and Iso as the possible town roles who were lying scum, and he said he believed that a scum was hiding amongst the power roles. Then why is the question so chummy and accepting of my claim to have been role-blocked, when according to him, there's a 50% chance of my being scum?
Quote from GJ »
Meh, we can talk more about this in theory.
Vote Wheat Grinder.
What a lukewarm vote post - he weakly barns Cyan's reasoning for a vote against WG, simultaneously dismissing Cyan's argument that WG's latest post was an attempt to weakly bus WG (Completely correct reasoning by Cyan, there.)
Quote from GJ »
As one of his strong two scum reads, I can't fathom why town Cythare would be doing jack diddly to try and case me, since his only excuse for not doing Wheat is that Chris beat him to the punch. We are for the most waiting for Taredas to case Seppel/Chris, there is nothing better to do than to try and get people to agree to a cluster of people.
I see we've moved on to picking on townie lurkers for being lurky.
Quote from GJ »
TL;Dr: He has been acting weird in certain instances. From being cryptic or non descriptive for whatever reason, to being unwilling to case someone cause "everyone looks scummy individually" I have been feeling bleh about him. He has been shown to be conscious about looking town, especially in his response to ZDS's vote. Nothing he has said day 2 has made me feel better, he shouldn't have needed the boost from Cyan to try and make an effort. I might analyze it tomorrow, but I am beat today. Let Tare catch up, figure out a plan tomorrow, do whatever else you all bloody well want, but Wheat should die today. Only other lynch I will consider is Chris, depending on Taredas's case.
Geeze, even his pbpa on WG, which labels WG as scummy, comes complete with a deflection escape route onto Sir Chris, depending on Taredas's case.
Quote from GJ »
I yelled hammer as more of a joke.
The reason I went through with ZDS was that I had been feeling worse about ZDS as the day was going on. At the best point, he was a null read after I got out of my tunnel on Iso. When it was Chris vs ZDS, I felt stronger about Chris being more likely candidate for scum, but it felt like support for that was starting to wane. With the deadline being about 4 days (it was a Thursday, and the deadline was Monday), Iso was trying to wagon DCIII, Wheat was starting to build up, I felt as though ZDS was the best vote at the time over Wheat (and I strongly disagreed with DCIII being scum). The vanillas for the most part have to be sorted first, and let the mafia deal with the claimed PRs. The hope was Az would shoot Chris that night, Wheat/Cythare/Seppel would be sorted the day after, and then figure out the last mafia if all flipped/cleared town.
Note that nowhere in here does he actually explain his reasoning for believing ZDS was scum, he just excuses it as a better wagon than lynching WG.
Quote from GJ »
You are right, I was strongly against the massclaim. Iso bruteforced it, Rhand followed and at that stage, I just decided to let it continue. The only thing worse than a day 1 massclaim, is half of a day 1 mass claim. If you are going to make a bad play of it, you might as well get the small positive benefit of locking everyone into their role, so you don't get any hidden surprises.
The play was ******* atrocious, but it I would still rather have it fully done than half done. It would make roles claimed from the ones who didn't massclaim (even if they were legit) look questionable.
Hello town, please note that I was really against that plan that was really awful. Nevermind that I never really seemed all that upset about it, before or since.
Quote from GJ »
WG, and I would prefer Cyathare before looking at the other two. Even after his case, he still has yet to push for a single case. The only two people I remember him voting for was Iso and ZDS, despite me being almost consistently scummy.
Still pushing the vulnerable lurker angle. He was gungho about both me and Sir Chris prior to the WG wagon - what happened to those reads, once he no longer had the wagon support to go with them, I wonder?
Quote from GJ »
Vote Seppel.
I don't see why you think my answer would be anything other than yes, considering my want to lynch Wheat is part of the reason the day has been kept going.
Yet another quick bandwagon vote.
Quote from GJ »
Unvote Seppel, Vote Wheat Grinder
In my mind's eye, Wheat, Seppel, Cythare, and eventually Az will likely die. The order is pretty much irrelevant at this stage.
As unsportsman like as it may be, I would rather Cythare's slot just be point blank modkilled.
If my reads are correct, he would chase that single scum lynch with a triple mislynch. And that is far, far too much certainty in what the lynch order should be for halfway through day 2. He's already trying to line up and solidify who the town's lynches will be - he already has all the information he's interested in having - the names of his comrades in his role PM.
Quote from GJ »
Fine with me, WG, Seppel, Cythare. If the game is still running afterwards, we will take a look at Azreal.
In the realms of night kills, we probably lose Rhand, Taredas, and Cyan. If for whatever reason, they choose different targets, all the better.
GJ accurately predicting the next NK, and still trying to push the town into locking in its next three lynches in advance, instead of waiting to see the next flip. Beyond that, he assumes that the town will need four lynches to end the game, not three. Why assume the town is going to need exactly four lynches...unless you already know that only one of those players is scum, and the other three are the final three mislynches you need to win the game.
Quote from GJ »
Unvote WG, Vote Seppel.
I will not allow a no-lynch, and will move back if need be.
Yo, Cyan. Remember how upset you got when I momentarily switched to Seppel, then back again to Wheat?
GJ doesn't switch back, despite spending far more time critiquing Wheat than he did Seppel, including making a PBPA on WG that supposedly convinced him that the only superior lynch to WG, was SC, at one point in time.
Quote from GJ »
I'll respond more tonight or tomorrow. I need to refill my mind before trying to go toe-to-toe with Az.
He focuses on this, instead of the WG vs. Seppel debate. The focus is on defense and deflection once again - it's all about preventing scum casualties for him.
Quote from GJ »
There is a giant issue with that theory Azreal: I am not that ballsy as scum. Look at the games I listed. Aside from Star Trek, which I started that claim from the mindset of "we probably lost" when have I ever showed a ballsy mindset as scum?
Pffft.
Chris dispensed with this post quite nicely already. On the one hand, he's proud of his scum game. On the other, he says he's not that ballsy.
He later tries to say that he wouldn't have done it not because it was ballsy, but because it was bad play. But those are two very different ideas, and that's not the first one he presents. It'a also problematic, aside from its WIFOM nature, because he's over-exaggerating both the risk and the stupidity of the play. It wasn't that awful - it took us a good long time to see past his joking facade and utter blatantness.
Quote from GJ »
In that situation, I probably don't claim vanilla.
Whatever it took though. If I did decide to go vanilla though, I would be damn sure all my actions made sense though. I am just as much vanilla fodder as everyone else day 1.
His second line of defense is that if he were scum, he would have false-claimed power role no. 5 instead of vanilla? What???
That would have gotten him lynched so many different ways. Vanilla was so much safer. This wine is tainted.
Quote from GJ »
Chris, where are you at with reads? I am still riding the Jobie/Az/Seppel train to victory. I know you think Az is town, so who is your fill in?
Quote from GJ »
Proph, I need to see your pick three right now, and Chris, I want to see yours as well. Cyan likely dies tomorrow, as the ******* tidal wave he is, so we need to make sure we can follow through without him, and I don't trust Chris to pick up the reins.
I have a hard time understanding how these two posts exist almost back to back. On the one hand, Sir Chris isn't even included on his list of scum-reads, and in the next post, he "doesn't trust Chris to pick up the reins".
He continues to push the town into giving their next three lists of players to lynch in his next several posts. Yet again, this is very savvy play for a scum player. The town is looking at multiple mislynches, and he's trying to solidify them onto those existing reads, get them to commit to them, and set them into the groove that he wants them to run along straight into a losing endgame, three mislynches in a row.
*frowns*
The last post of my ISO has GJ telling me that I'm dead. Checking the thread now.
The night moves swiftly, the sun coming around again with little fanfare. Today the absent member of town is Cyan. You find him stabbed to death in his bed, the sheets thick with warm blood. A search of his house reveals is identity: he was Millan, Town One-Shot Cop.
I woke up last night to find that Az had been lynched and I cursed myself out for a bit. Sigh, I'll take the blame for this one because I shouldn't have been swayed by Cyan's passion. I wanted him to be right and for me to be wrong.
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It, explains why he brought up you, Cyan, and even Taredas: He was so confidant I was scum, but he did not think any of the remaining players for PoE purposes made sense.
I still think it's Jobie/Seppel. Seppel can be independently scum, while I can't see Jobie being scum without Seppel flipping it.
Azrael went into the case with me as scum, and basically went "Hm, if GJ is scum, then this means this." In an ironic fashion, he decided to ignore any potential townie read he could, to make his case: Exactly what he was accusing Cyan of doing.
I am trying to determine just how scary of a guy you really are, GJ. You have talked a good game, but just how capable are you I have to wonder. That's going to be a decisive determining factor today, I think. Just what is scum GJ capable of doing.
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
What is something you would do as town that you would never do as scum, and why?
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
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Like Az has done a great job at proving that I'm town. Do I think that clears him? No, not at all.
Cythare seemed kinda townie, and while Jobie mucked things up, someone did say that Cythare hates being town and his play fits his MO as town.
I could be persuaded to lynch you before Az, maybe? Make a case and I'll consider it.
Like. It should tell everyone all that they need to know that Az refused to name 2 people as scum. He just wants to keep his second option open. This is as anti-town behavior, in this game state, as can be. I am frustrated as can be right now with all of you for refusing to lynch him. Some *****ty vig claim being blocked by a RB that we have no other verification of should not just be forever buoyed against his thoroughly AWFUL behavior. Especially for you, GJ, given that you he is in your Top 2. This is garbage.
And he has the audacity to ******* call me scum? I have done everything I can to help the town make the right choices this game? I have shed metaphoric blood. Like I am so tempted right now to just quote my role PM and get modkilled and quit. Az could probably claim SK variant and you guys would find some excuse to not ******* lynch him at this point. He has done NOTHING pro-town this whole goddamned game. Actual stone nothing. He sat around the side lines yesterday with his vote on WG for awhile, and when pressure started to be on Az, he MOVED HIS VOTE TO SOMEONE ELSE. This is literally one of the biggest pieces of evidence of someone being scum that can exist in the game. And nobody cares because of a vig claim that has never been proven and might not even be proven. I almost want Az to be scum and to win.
I literally cannot remember the last time I was this frustrated at the game of mafia. I have given Az every opportunity to show why he is town, and he has made the scummy choice E-V-E-R-Y time.
If we can't lynch Az, can people PLEASE just vote Seppel already so that this day can be over and I can stop suffering. This is not fun.
Sigh..I just have so much wrapped up in this game. You guys don't get it. This is the end of an era for me. This is not 'a break'. This is the last game I will play in with many of you, and I just want to get things right. It is so unlikely that I will ever play another game of mafia after the Stargate League one, and most of you aren't in that. I want to do my absolute best. It's more than just about winning this one game. I've won and lost hundreds of mafia games now, one more is..whatever. I want to be right and be triumphant against all of this adversity re: Azrael at this point. More than anything else, more than I want to win this game, I want to be right on this one point. But if I'm not..I'm not. I'll live. But I just want to know. But for that to happen..the game has to proceed, not drag on endlessly like this. I've been trying to get the same 3 people lynched for like a month now. And I'm just exhausted. I just want this lynch to happen so that we(if I somehow don't get NKed, which seems legit impossible) hopefully another dead scum, or at least more information to work with.
I just have nothing else to say at this point. I'm going to be sad if Seppel flips town, even though I don't know HOW he can, but hopefully you guys can parlay that into figuring our who the last 2 scum are.
If you need me to 100% find another scum in order to not lynch me, let me know. I'm checked out, but I will put in the effort if necessary.
I'm actually pretty sure GJ is scum, anyway. His attack on me is just so WRONG that I can't imagine he actually believes what he's typing about me.
@Cyan: Just to see if I'm way off base here, do you think GJ believes what he's typing about me? You've seen how checked out I am, and GJ concocts this master plan I'm supposedly making? Like what the hell is he even talking about?
I caught the exact same thing you did. Cyan, trust me, Az dies tomorrow. I don't even you think you will get enough support from me. Me, you, Proph. Christ won't budge until Seppel is dealt with, Taaredas likely won't either.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
You can't be serious.
There is no master plan, there is simply no logical reason that town Seppel doesn't get dunked by Scum Jobie/Azrael.
Are you actually bothering to read the game or your own posts, or did you just decide to go to the grave early?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I am just going to pick out this particular sentence, point you in the direction of my massive PBPA, and let you take some deep breaths.
I suppose I'll also remind you that I specifically stated that I'm town-reading everyone except GJ, including you, and that I didn't even put you in the first three players of my reread, which means that you're right in the middle of the pack with all the players I'm town-reading. You'll also note that I even put Chris on my list of players to reread, simply because I haven't done it. I'm at the point where I'm trying to be thorough and cover all bases, rather than going off any strong hunches that I have, aside from GJ.
Seppel is not going to flip scum. He has far too many reliable town indicators. He *could* be faking them - but you could very well be pulling a page from my book of tricks from Cross-town 3 and counting on players to false-clear you based on a ridiculously over-the-top emotional facade. I think that's somewhat less likely to be the case than that you're just raging out though, and similarly, I'm skeptical that Seppel's townie tells are faked as well. I'm actually far more confident in Seppel's towniness, because the townie tells he's mimicking are far less over-the-top and obvious than your theatrics in this game. They're subtle, and understated, and they match perfectly with his actions.
But, I'm running low on options, so the thought of whether you're conning us does enter the realm of possibility. It would be one hell of a way to top off your career as scum, a performance that I've never seen equalled. But all those thoughts are just smoke until I get a chance to actually think over and digest your entire posting history.
The one thing I'm sure of, the one thing we've actually agreed on today, is that GJ is scum. Before you talked your way out of it by considering pairings theory, you were completely on the right track.
@Seppel: We have to lynch you, because I can't convince people to lynch Az, and there really isn't a viable candidate beyond that. Your lynch has a very high probability of resulting in a dead scum, and is a literal motherload of information. And from OUR perspective of you being unknown, there is no such thing as 'auto-win' status. And if you are town, Az is like..practically auto-scum? So it's a chance we have to take, and then just hope we don't miss again. Truthfully, if I had my way, I would lynch AZ *first* at this point, but it's not my unilateral decision to make, sadly. SC, GJ, and Jobie won't go along. And Az is pretty obviously not going to vote himself, so that's not enough votes to get a lynch. If you're town, you're just going to have to get sacrificed, and then if we lynch Az and he flips scum, the final day will have to be used to figure out which of those 3 is Az's scumbuddy that wouldn't play ball.
I don't know what you're talking about re: GJ. I feel good about GJ, but maybe he just played his cards exactly right today to fool me. Apparently scum have gotten good at that lately. :/ And you telling us 'I'm only willing put in the work if you're not going to lynch me' reads like a 100% scum tell, honestly. It doesn't help your cause that your top 2 scum reads are Az and Jobie, when they tried to bumrush Proph coming into the day. You keep ignoring this point, but as mafia, they clearly would have just sat around with their thumbs up their asses while we murdered you, you know? Like they literally could have let the town do it and protested meekly. You know, exactly like Az is doing now.
You know what, I probably shouldn't do this because my head says no but...
##unvote: Seppel
##vote: Azrael
I just can't deny your heart right now Cyan. Like mafia is more than just the end result, sometimes it's about the adventure. I think I am right on this but god damn I can feel the burning passion just bleed off you. Plus it seems almost everyone wants to lynch Az tomorrow anyway. **** it, all hail Cyan.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I don't know which type of analysis to use to filter my read on him. Mindset and tone, which is weak against savvy scum, or anti-town effect, which is less accurate generally speaking but more accurate against smart scum than mindset. But I still think that is a debate that is best resolved tomorrow.
I'm going to get to that case on GJ. He's the one player who is completely failing my town-detection sense, and I saw a ton of artificiality and anti-town play on my read-through.
Unvote Seppel, Vote Azrael.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
If you flip town and I somehow survive the night, I promise to dig into him with a fine-tooth comb tomorrow. If I don't, I'm sure SC will. And if you are town..I'm sorry.
(4) Azrael - Prophylaxis, Sir Chris, Gentleman Johnny, Cyan
(2) Gentleman Johnny - Taredas, Azrael
Not Voting: Jobie, Seppel
With 8 alive, it's 5 to lynch.
How about we have Cyan's shining moment be being actually right about GJ, and being able to put aside his ridiculous hard-on for me that defies any actual reading comprehension, logic, or acquaintance with actual facts?
The one moment we had Cyan actually playing at his full, old potential, was that GJ case. It wasn't perfect, he slipped in some questionable logic in a few places, but it was solid sleuth-work, and it was actually on target. He played actual mafia, and he got the right result.
That's the Cyan I want to remember, not the one that's foaming at the mouth, grasping at straws, using the term "100% scum" in every other sentence because he so desperately is looking for vindication in all the wrong places, instead of playing with discipline and thoughtfulness.
I'd love for Cyan to go out with a good game, and this sure as hell is not it. Give me the shot to prove that Cyan was right about GJ, for that brief shining moment when he remembered how mafia players are supposed to play this game. With thoughtfulness, attention to detail, and with an open and understanding mind.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Like..does GJ running himself out here and over-committing himself today to get you lynched make sense? Are you worth 1 for 1ing right now? Is any townie EVER worth 1 for 1ing?
It feels like GJ became most interested in lynching AZ after Az started running for Proph today and/or announced that he had tried to Vig Proph. And specifically, this is the literal only scenario where it makes sense for GJ to 1 for 1 himself to get Az lynched. Of course, if Az flips scum this is irrelevant. Just some food for thought in case I die.
If this connection seems tenable, I recommend lynching GJ first, as he seems the more likely of the two to be scum, and then working out the rest.
1). Az is scum over Jobie
2). The rest of the town will follow through with Seppel/Az?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Every single post you make, you aren't even reading the literal meaning of the words in my posts correctly. Every single time, your brain rewrites and replaces them into something which fits the world view you want to exist, instead of dealing with reality.
Why would the scum ever kill you? All you do right now is feed them mislynches by picking random people and misinterpreting everything they say.
Of course GJ goes with this lynch. He already set himself up to jump on the wagon early in the day, he's dying regardless in the next 2-3 days, and you're all so impatient to avoid actually playing the game and reading people that there's a good chance I'll be dead before I can even complete this PBPA. 1 for 1? No. A free lynch that they should never have gotten close to scoring on, if the town's only player who's firing on all cylinders hadn't decided to play for funsies, and the rest of the town is suffering from varying degrees of catatonia.
It's not a 1 for 1 if you're already caught.
At this point? Az/Seppel.
There's two reasons for that. The first is the thing I was redacting about Az earlier (the *other* reason I scrapped a post earlier, along with Proph's 1538 - Az dropped his towncase on Seppel while I was typing): "If I'm wrong and Az is scum, he is probably specifically scum with Seppel". Basically, Az's towncase on Cythare read sincere to me... but his towncase on Seppel *didn't*. If those were both *scumreads*, I'd chainlynch Az and the insincere scumread in a heartbeat - that's Fadeblue in Amistarian 3 (so named after how Fadeblue sounded completely sincere about attacking AI and so insincere attacking other players), which is one of my best tells. In theory, that should work in reverse, but I've never actually seen scum towncase their partners so I wanted corroborating evidence.
That's most of why I pushed everyone off Az earlier toDay - I wanted to evaluate how Az acted when the pressure dissipated and hopefully see his attack tone. That's also the ultimate reason I tried that "willing to lynch Seppel on Wednesday" gambit: Az vanished when the pressure on him let up on him and I wanted to see if he would come back when pressure was placed on Seppel (that's why I posted the gambit on Saturday night specifically - the alternative explanation was that Az just became more busy, probably due to a weekend event, and if Az became more active on Sunday after I cased Seppel his vanishing was significantly more likely to come from scum), and I asked for town and scum cases from Az specifically to hopefully get another towncase to compare the Seppel case to and a scumcase to evaluate attack tone. I asked for a secondary scumread from Proph both as a smokescreen and to test Az/Proph/Wheat (barring me being completely off on attack tone, the *only* way I could be wrong about Proph after 1538 was if the scumteam was exactly Az/Proph/Wheat).
But as it turns out that gambit failing was irrelevant, because I was reading over the thread today (both to check for evidence of Az/Seppel and to evaluate the Az/Proph corner case) and noticed a smoking gun I missed when I looked over Az earlier:
These are all of Az's posts on the Proph wagon D1. For context, the GJ and Proph wagons are tied at four votes at 240 (there's a vote count immediately thereafter, which I'm not quoting because this post will be long enough as it is.)
After 240, the Proph wagon escalates to L-1 after Iso, Rhand, and Wheat jump on (and only fails to go through because Cyan unvotes). Az's next post is 302, where he's suddenly doubting whether Proph will flip scum. But... when the Proph wagon loses momentum, Az insists that he isn't trying to "lead anyone off Proph".
Like, how is that a town thought process? I mean, I can understand a townie being shaken by the rapid development of the Proph wagon or by Proph's claim + final reads post, but I'd expect them to explain *why* they were no longer sure, and I definitely *wouldn't* expect them to claim that they weren't trying to lead anyone off Proph, because if you're town attacking town you *want* people to back off - that gives you time to reevaluate, and you can always round people back up on the wagon later, especially if you're a town leader archetype (which Az is).
No, I think Az got caught with his hand in the cookie jar - he *KNEW* Proph would flip town and wanted to distance himself from the wagon before that happened, but the wagon disintegrated and left him scrambling to cover up what he was actually doing.
Unvote, Vote Azrael
---
Two quick notes:
A) If I get shot overnight and I'm right about Az and wrong about Seppel, take a good look at Sir Chris. It's *possible* that SC was able to fake sincerity while defending a scumbuddy D2 and was staying on Wheat D1 is because he got called on attacking Wheat without committing to him and then committed to the bus, and looking over D2 Sir Chris favored Seppel over Wheat for most of D2 while still scumreading Wheat (aka "Tar distancing tactic #1"). Not sure Wheat/Az/SC is a *likely* world, but it's possible and Proph, Cyan, and I are all town and I have doubts about Az/Jobie (would require Az to be *more* genuine reading a scumbuddy than a townie) so the only other plausible Az-but-not-Seppel world is Az/GJ. (Actually, might need to just take a second look at Sir Chris period? Wheat/GJ/SC is a corner case, especially since I'm not sure what SC would white-knight town!Az D2, but I'm not sure we can rule it out.)
B) If I'm somehow wrong about Az, GJ is very likely scum - looking over D1, Seppel/Jobie probably aren't scumbuddies (there's the neutral question Seppel asked Cythare D1 that I noted yesterDay, and Seppel's actions re: the early Cythare wagon don't feel like scumbuddy actions) and GJ is scum in every other plausible world (GJ/Jobie, GJ/Seppel, and the GJ/SC corner case).
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
@Cyan You actually believe that out of Az/GJ, I am the likely scum, despite all the double talk Azrael has done? I will literally give you the play by play when tomorrow starts if I die and flip town. "With GJ flipping town, I must be wrong about one of the people I town cleared today. HMMMM, MAYBE SEPPEL/PROPH COULD BE SCUM AFTER ALL...." You know it, I know it, the whole bleeding game knows it. If Azrael is truly that confidant that I am scum, it is pretty easy to PoE the potential scummates down, and try to case one of them rather than me. After all, my slot should be double lynched and burned, the moderator might as well just line up that red text. Why not put a case up for the potential partner? Why is one name not sticking out more than another? It's a shame that he locked himself out of Seppel, and the only tiniest sliver of a doubt I have on Az is that of all the players to lock himself out of, why Seppel?
You know what? I just realized Seppel is probably the roleblocker. That would explain why Az is so hellbent on locking himself out of Seppel for potential lynches. If he died first, Seppel could potentially shift the blame to me/Jobie. If Seppel dies first, Az is literally cooked, short of slow rolling a tough guy shot, which he would have to either narrow PoE down harder, or kill someone almost auto town and draw suspicion.
I said both today and yesterday that the scum team was in the cluster of you, WG, Cythare/Jobie, and Seppel. Got WG yesterday, and we have two mislynches. That's literally game, even if we hit the townie in that pile before the other two scum. There is no one else in that pile I would even consider as scum.
I can literally point to the posts where you implied a town read on me.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
My ******* heart. If Az flips town, the only two people who should be considered for tomorrow are myself and Jobie. I will PBPA duel the ever living crap out of him, and prove it is him/Seppel.
If he flips scum, lynch me tomorrow for all I bloody care, as long as Seppel is the day after.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The tone you get in this post is one that will recur throughout the remainder of his posts. I tend to think of it as the overzealous prosecutor, tell.
Most of his interactions involve him looking for a way to be skeptical of the person he's talking to, or critiquing. It's a combative, adversarial mindset, which fits naturally within the mode of play for someone who views himself as on opposite sides of the team from most of the people he's conversing with.
It also lets you know that the player is being artificial in their interactions with other players, because when their invariable response is to look for ways to pick stuff apart, it's not a natural townie thought process, and it indicates an objective-based approach that is focused on creating mislynches rather than arriving at reads organically.
See below for more examples of this:
Because everyone else is interested in Cythare, he avoids the wagon, without expressing his opinion. That's a very good way to avoid getting caught as a bandwagon voter, while still allowing the town to mislynch. But, he also doesn't foreclose the possibility of jumping on the wagon later, if it needs a judicious nudge. Textbook.
All the above were taken from the very first page of GJ's ISO results, and I expect you'll see many, many more like them on the subsequent pages. For now, returning to your regularly scheduled programming with some different varieties of tells:
GJ fields questions regarding Cythare and his dodge away from that wagon, intelligently spotted by ZDS at the time. And in the next post, despite not having a read on Cythare and acknowledging potential interest in a Cythare wagon later on, he now seems to be suggesting to Iso that Cythare will flip town. That isn't a natural supposition from someone with ambivalent feelings towards Cythare. It smacks of superior knowledge, and smugness, which you'll also see on display when he butts heads with Iso later on.
First off, read this, and then ponder which alignment gets offended by an Iso who claims to have solved the game on day one? Which alignment feels insulted by that position? The one who believes Iso is a potentially misguided teammate, or the one who believes Iso is denigrating his skill and ability?
There was no great friction between Iso and GJ building up to this. The challenge comes out of nowhere. That lack of traceability suggests manipulation and calculation, which GJ actually comes straight out and admits not long afterwards!
"Nothing more than flare", he calls his self-vote. Not an honest reaction in anger, not an attempt to prove that Iso was deeply off his rocker and to chastise him for his arrogance, it's "flare". Trickery.
And from there, he goes on to launch an extremely bogus attack on Iso to top it off.
Retcon of the Cythare question is heavily bogus.
Woah. Check this out.
GJ, on post 163, tells Sir Chris that SC has the highest chance of being mislynched after himself or Cythare.
Previously, GJ has given no concrete reasons why Cythare isn't scum, let alone Sir Chris. It's far too soon to have a confident read on a player like Sir Chris as town at post 163- why use the word mislynch? And why consiciously assess other players according to their mislynch potential, based on dislike, than assess players on their actual likelihood of being scum.
This is a very significant mindset slip, and if GJ flips town, indicates both a town Cythare and a town SC.
The tone is off, here. He feels trapped.
Look at him trying to squirm away from the bargain he himself proposed, as he nears pressure. These questions are designed to get the other players to think about scenarios where he isn't scum. Very slick, subtle move for scum to make. Point them down the right path, and set their minds on the track you want them to continue on.
A little inside knowledge probably didn't hurt on that.
More negativity.
More negativity, coupled with a tone that's inconsistent with him reading iso as scum, as he'd suggested throughout.
These leading questions of his, man.
Skewers WG, then votes for Azrael anyways, and for an awful reason full of inconsistencies.
GJ had said that Sir Chris looked like the most likely mislynch - now he says it's a bus. But he doesn't even vote for the person who he believes to be bussing, on whom the tell is predicated, but he votes against the bus-target.
Check out the way he writes these reads. He's bouncing between both hyperbole tells and scum-wavering. And where is his position on WG? It's not mentioned, despite the question from earlier where he utterly skewered WG's logic. Now, he's shifted to leaving him alone and deflecting instead.
Silly reason for a vote, and still furiously deflecting away from the WG wagon. First he tried deflecting to me, now he's trying to deflect to Chris.
Here, you guys can digest this portion while I move on to the next segment.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Let's review. Today starts. First, you and Jobie try to bumrush Proph. If Proph is scum, this is pretty awful for the scumteam. But unless the scumteam is exactly Seppel/Proph, it's salvageable. But if this the scumteam, it does not explain GJ's actions toward you, so..today makes no sense.
And let's talk about GJ some more. GJ is sitting here touting himself as a master scum player. Who actually does that WHILE THEY ARE SCUM? Nobody. You know what people do while they are scum? Downplay their capabilities. Because that is smart. Because you know what townies do when you tell them 'I'm a great scum player?' They react *exactly like Sir Chris did*. This ***** isn't rocket science.
And don't act high and mighty with me. If you're town this game, you deserve to get lynched. You've been given 7,000 opportunities to be a contributing member of the town and play a positive town game. You've failed 7,001 times. You got run up legitimately and forced to claim on DAY 1. And of course, you declined to answer my question about the last time you were forced to claim on Day 1 as town. But I know a time recently you were forced to claim on Day 1 in general, which was CT3. Granted, we bussed the ***** out of you that game, but it doesn't matter. It still took 4 townies to come along, and one of them(Iso) to get the ball rolling. Anyway, I digress somewhat. Your play has been miserable. I'm happy to continue this discussion with you post-game, where we can bring in plenty of other voices, and I will firmly stand my ground. At no point EVER have you tried to promote the town agenda. I've already said this so many times so far, that I don't think it needs to be repeated.
And GJ was not 'already caught'. He could have sat around in the background and just went along with the Seppel lynch that was literally a foregone conclusion as of yesterday. If he and Seppel are scumbuddies, he could have found a way to aggressively push that lynch, instead of randomly deciding that it was a super great idea to start pushing your lynch out of nowhere.
Like I said. If you are town, the only scum team that makes sense for GJ to be a part of is GJ/Proph, and that can be explored later. But it just doesn't make sense for you to be town. If you are fine. But you have no one but yourself to blame for your lynch. Period. I've made some questionable lynches happen in the past. I feel bad for getting on the ZDS wagon toward the end of Day 1. I didn't feel great about it, but the deadline was incoming, blahblah. I don't feel bad about your lynch. You brought it on yourself. Repeatedly.
And it's not 'random people'. I've looked at every single person in this game and had varying stances on ALL OF THEM. I've even had times when I thought you were town for brief moments. But you just keep changing my mind. You just continue to act like scum, over and over and over.
And I get it. You're bitter. And that bitterness could be genuine. But you could easily be faking it; it's not hard. We don't have the luxury of giving you the benefit of the doubt here.
@Sir Chris. Or..do we? There is a pretty apparent dichotomy here between GJ and Az. One of them is scum, and one is not. I can't even conceive of a scum team that exists that doesn't include one of these two. I'm actually feeling pretty good(in a town way) about Jobie right now at this point, I think so..Should we lynch GJ today instead? What do you think. Unvote momentarily while we discuss this.
Because everyone else is interested in Cythare, he avoids the wagon, without expressing his opinion. That's a very good way to avoid getting caught as a bandwagon voter, while still allowing the town to mislynch. But, he also doesn't foreclose the possibility of jumping on the wagon later, if it needs a judicious nudge. Textbook.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Well, you're pretty clearly not scum together, weirdo. But this is a pretty flustered post, I don't know if you could fake it.
This is so exciting. I can't remember the last time I was this intrigued to know a flip. It's like being a mafia newb all over again.
@Taredas: SC has genuine town emotional leaks in literally ALL of the right spots, there's no way he is scum. I was just needling him a bit earlier, and even then he responding in JUSt the right way.
You, however, I'm not so sure about, depending on Az's flip. Your 'toward the end of day' posts have come across as scummy to me almost every time now.
I don't know. I've been around enough to see everything. You always ask the weirdest questions, heh.
It isn't a scum hunting question, it's a "I am not following your mindset" question.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Everyone remember this piece of absolute awfulness?
Hey, look over there, a THIRD alternative to actually lynching WG. Let's make sure we jump on board bc...bc...because ZDS only has a read on one person as scum on day one, the same as everyone else?
And that makes the list "absolutely awful", to the point you'll flip your entire read around. Bull. *****.
I've said this once and I'll say it again. The way he styled this post, you can see that he knew what he was doing was ballsy, and he's hamming it up for all it's worth because he knows he's taking a risk. But the risks results in deflecting from WG, which has transparently been his primary objective for the last dozen or so posts. It's a calculated risk, and for quite a long time, it worked far better than it had any right to do. There was zero meaningful follow-up on him the next day.
Look at GJ directing the power roles to "resolve" one another, and pushing the poison pill of speculating on role analysis over behavior.
*frowns* I should have dealt with both of them immediately, if only I had the time.
First problem with this is he's now including wheat as his distant fourth alternative scum, when he spent literally all of the previous day's endgame deflecting as hard as he could away from Wheat, no less than three separate times during the run-up to the lynch.
The other problem with this post is that in his previous post, he identified both me and Iso as the possible town roles who were lying scum, and he said he believed that a scum was hiding amongst the power roles. Then why is the question so chummy and accepting of my claim to have been role-blocked, when according to him, there's a 50% chance of my being scum?
What a lukewarm vote post - he weakly barns Cyan's reasoning for a vote against WG, simultaneously dismissing Cyan's argument that WG's latest post was an attempt to weakly bus WG (Completely correct reasoning by Cyan, there.)
I see we've moved on to picking on townie lurkers for being lurky.
Geeze, even his pbpa on WG, which labels WG as scummy, comes complete with a deflection escape route onto Sir Chris, depending on Taredas's case.
Note that nowhere in here does he actually explain his reasoning for believing ZDS was scum, he just excuses it as a better wagon than lynching WG.
Hello town, please note that I was really against that plan that was really awful. Nevermind that I never really seemed all that upset about it, before or since.
Still pushing the vulnerable lurker angle. He was gungho about both me and Sir Chris prior to the WG wagon - what happened to those reads, once he no longer had the wagon support to go with them, I wonder?
Yet another quick bandwagon vote.
If my reads are correct, he would chase that single scum lynch with a triple mislynch. And that is far, far too much certainty in what the lynch order should be for halfway through day 2. He's already trying to line up and solidify who the town's lynches will be - he already has all the information he's interested in having - the names of his comrades in his role PM.
GJ accurately predicting the next NK, and still trying to push the town into locking in its next three lynches in advance, instead of waiting to see the next flip. Beyond that, he assumes that the town will need four lynches to end the game, not three. Why assume the town is going to need exactly four lynches...unless you already know that only one of those players is scum, and the other three are the final three mislynches you need to win the game.
Yo, Cyan. Remember how upset you got when I momentarily switched to Seppel, then back again to Wheat?
GJ doesn't switch back, despite spending far more time critiquing Wheat than he did Seppel, including making a PBPA on WG that supposedly convinced him that the only superior lynch to WG, was SC, at one point in time.
He focuses on this, instead of the WG vs. Seppel debate. The focus is on defense and deflection once again - it's all about preventing scum casualties for him.
Pffft.
Chris dispensed with this post quite nicely already. On the one hand, he's proud of his scum game. On the other, he says he's not that ballsy.
He later tries to say that he wouldn't have done it not because it was ballsy, but because it was bad play. But those are two very different ideas, and that's not the first one he presents. It'a also problematic, aside from its WIFOM nature, because he's over-exaggerating both the risk and the stupidity of the play. It wasn't that awful - it took us a good long time to see past his joking facade and utter blatantness.
His second line of defense is that if he were scum, he would have false-claimed power role no. 5 instead of vanilla? What???
That would have gotten him lynched so many different ways. Vanilla was so much safer. This wine is tainted.
I have a hard time understanding how these two posts exist almost back to back. On the one hand, Sir Chris isn't even included on his list of scum-reads, and in the next post, he "doesn't trust Chris to pick up the reins".
He continues to push the town into giving their next three lists of players to lynch in his next several posts. Yet again, this is very savvy play for a scum player. The town is looking at multiple mislynches, and he's trying to solidify them onto those existing reads, get them to commit to them, and set them into the groove that he wants them to run along straight into a losing endgame, three mislynches in a row.
*frowns*
The last post of my ISO has GJ telling me that I'm dead. Checking the thread now.
(5) Azrael - Prophylaxis, Sir Chris, Gentleman Johnny, Cyan, Taredas
(1) Gentleman Johnny - Azrael
Not Voting: Jobie, Seppel
A body hangs from the gallows.
A boy with a loaded gun.
Azrael AKA Bill, Town One-Shot Vigilante.
It is now night 3. Night will end on the evening of Wednesday December 10th if all actions are in. Please have all actions in by then if possible.
It is now Day 4. With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I literally had him going back to Seppel, and just said **** it anyway.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I still think it's Jobie/Seppel. Seppel can be independently scum, while I can't see Jobie being scum without Seppel flipping it.
Azrael went into the case with me as scum, and basically went "Hm, if GJ is scum, then this means this." In an ironic fashion, he decided to ignore any potential townie read he could, to make his case: Exactly what he was accusing Cyan of doing.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Let me know if you need anything while we are both here.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
GJ, what makes you such an effective scum player?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I am also fully aware of tells I give off, and rotate them quite well.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
The GJ way path to no lynching:
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player