@June: I believe you're misunderstanding me. I'm 99% sure I know who September is. Additionally, his behavior is not scummy in my eyes, despite a number of you supposing that he is. I don't understand your suggestion that I'm attempting to appear as though I'm scum hunting. I'm disagree on points that are mostly related to tonal scummyness, which I believe are both terrible reasons to pursue someone D1 AND are not scummy based on who I believe September is.
Vote: Jan
I read that the same way as Huntzilla. The only way Jan's post is useful in anyway, is if he does "Apr/Hunt" or the like. Since he didn't the post may as well have been him facerolling gibberish on the keyboard.
In fact, I just don't like Jan's playstyle at all so far.
Voting based on playsyle? :/ Are you just throwing votes out at this point?
I'm back from V/LA and trying to catch up on the game. I see I've garnered votes for being kind of ****tarded. I accept them and do my best to address them after I'm caught back up.
@Iso: I'm more inclined to believe you now, though not solely because of your identity being revealed now.
Huh. I remember Jobie copping to being dumb later on.
@Iso: I guess I was vague about what I believe you about now. I meant your list of reads with everyone's real identity. I believe you more now, because you know who I am. Also to be fair to both of us and regardless of how you've played so far this game, I don't think I ever enjoyed your playstyle, despite its results.
Unvote
****, I’m so pissed I wasted my naming on October, I don’t know why I had such a strong Iso/Seppel brothers read on him. Additional note, I think the Mod is probably suffering from mixed emotions: on the one hand, a gimmick game is brilliant, especially with the naming mechanic. On the other, 1/3 of the game getting named Day 1 sucks.
Who do you think is scum Dec???
Will be watching Septicemia but Im not super convinced
Town reads:
Iso/Seppel brothers: Seppel is an "innocent until proven guilty" player. If he's still alive a day before Lylo, he should be strongly considered an auto-lynch, Iso is guilty by genetics.
September: Bad play is not reason enough to lynch someone. Especially given his claimed inability to make good reads on Day 1. Especially given the likelihood he's feeling rusty.
W_G: I have a hard-time seeing double-vote gifting on scum. In addition, his behavior has been very townie.
October: The Seppel fooling has me confused. Did I just confuse my townie read with a Seppel read? You've quickly started to pressure me, which I like, but I don't know why you're so flippantly disagree with me at every stage.
Feb: I like his posts on page 4.
March: Gut feel, nothing offensive, just solid play so far. Definitely nothing strong enough for me to color his name in my notes.
Null Read on August. I have one bad post down for August, but it's not significant enough for him to move off neutral.
Scum Reads (in increasing strength):
Hunt - Something was weird about his desire to be named. Hunt should probably be on my neutral pile, but I can't shake this feeling.
June - I do. not. like. the naming of W_G.
July - Is picking the lurker low hanging fruit? Probably. Does his most recent post make me feel any better? No. Vote: July
@Iso: I guess I was vague about what I believe you about now. I meant your list of reads with everyone's real identity. I believe you more now, because you know who I am. Also to be fair to both of us and regardless of how you've played so far this game, I don't think I ever enjoyed your playstyle, despite its results.
That's too bad. I've always enjoyed you quite a bit, in-game and out.
Goddamnit. That came out wrong too. I need my actual identity because I feel like every single thing I say in this one comes out wrong. I like you and playing in games with you, but players who post in high volumes make it difficult for me to get reads on them and the game as a whole, especially on Day 1. I hate reading lots of posts in the same voice and/or walls of text (which of course this post is turning into)
I decided to see who was in this game, since Sep is playing Babby's First Scumgame.
Charm_Master3125 -- Could be a little rusty?
KamikazeArchon -- Really reads as KA, but would he be this obvious after already crashing and burning as scum in the last game I was in with him?
Necarg -- Some unknown. Sep is most likely Necarg.
None of these are real identities are who I believe Sep to be. Again a reminder to everyone: “Playing poorly is not a scum tell, it just means they’re bad/having a bad game”
For clarity, my final @ was supposed to be @September, not at Seppel, who is apparently not Octopus.
@Feb: Because I'm confident I can name September. I wasn't confident about October and was guessing on a hunch.
@Oct: I'm not comfortable with lynching September because of who I believe his true name is and based on his behavior I don't think he's scum.
You're confident that you can name September so you asked him if he wanted you to but then you took a guess on Oct because you were less confident - but your post doesn't seem like you weren't confident and, what if you had been right about Octopus? Still doesn't jive that you wouldn't have similar concern about being correct about him. You're basically saying that you felt confident guessing because you were less confident you'd be right... so why guess then? It feels like you're making up logic on the back end.
Yeah, it doesn’t make sense logically, because it was stupid. I don’t know why I thought it was a good idea, frankly. I should have just named Sep and moved on.
Vote: Jan
I read that the same way as Huntzilla. The only way Jan's post is useful in anyway, is if he does "Apr/Hunt" or the like. Since he didn't the post may as well have been him facerolling gibberish on the keyboard.
In fact, I just don't like Jan's playstyle at all so far.
You're agreeing with Hunt but one of the reasons Hunt suspects Jan is because he didn't post the reads under the gimmicks so he thinks that Jan was fishing for reactions to learn identities. He's saying Jan should have posted the reads as the gimmicks instead. You're saying that Jan's reads would have been useful if he'd posted his reads of the true identity alongside the gimmick - so your concern isn't actually that Jan is outing identities. The language also feels discrediting rather than that you think he's actually scum.
I feel like I’ve addressed this. Yes, I was discrediting it because I thought it was reaction inducing gimmick (which arguably it was, though the reads seem a lot better than I expected in this short term of hindsight).
Now I've seen Sep's claim of VT, I still dislike his lynch and I hope we can look elsewhere... like our lurking friend.
There's a lot more to this post than what DCIII quoted. Let's comb through it.
...actually, the only thing that stands out to me is this:
You had plenty with which to read Seppel, until he magically metamorphosed into Seppel. Why did May being Seppel change your read?
Precisely because it's Seppel. I'm much happier taking a firm read on players that are less nefarious and less reputable. It's easier to be wrong on Seppel, so I'm not going to project false assurance that I don't have, whether I found some troubling signals or not.
This is exactly my stance on Seppel also. I have a handful of other players who fall into that category, you being one of them.
I mean, March is clearly angry in his post where he claims to attempt to find June's scumbuddies. But is the disgust and frustration with one's self more likely to stem from a town or a scum mindset in this case?
Open question for anyone who wants to answer, as if I answer it, myself, I'll just be tunneling.
At this point in my re-read, I haven't seen anyone answer this.
Disgust/Frustration alignment heavily depends on the player. If it's say... me, or Cyan or Loran or [insert emotional player here], frustration and anger in scumhunting tends to be a town tell, whereas if it's centered around having a case/wagon built up it's usually a scum tell. In this case, I view frustration to be a town tell. Addendum: Now seeing March = Az, I'm inclined to give him a slight pass on the frustration. I think he uses sarcasm and hyperbole as a tool to win arguments.
I always hate my Day 1 reads because they lack some concrete information to back them up:
There are at least one (probably 2) scum in the group of Hunt, July, August, and Oct.
June also rubs me the wrong way.
I have a Seppel read on Seppel/Iso/March (Seppel read is defined by the quote from March above)
September is a believable VT; WG is town due to role-based reasons. I like Feb's behavior so far.
@Iso: I don't feel like reading Full Deck Mafia. What got a Town KA lynched Day 1? @Seppel: How do you feel October's play compares to the last game you were scum-buddies with him in?
I hate it when people say "Seppel is Seppel." It used to be a universal scumtell. :/
This is such a Jobiepost. It provides no information on Jobie's alignment, nor any of the players he talks to.
i just got out of a game where we settled for, like, third-best or fourth-best lynches the entire game
And then in this game, we ignored the best lynch of charm, and now we're about to ignore march too, even though his claim doesn't match his actions
The problem here is, Az is like a third or fourth best lynch due to his uncountered claim. Plus the behavior is odd, not scummy. Sound familiar from that last game? (Hint: It's how you tried to continually mislynch Cyan as town in Avant Garde).
We have 3-4 days until deadline? We have 3 choices:
1) We have a 3rd big wagon for the day, we don't like that persons claim, so we lynch them.
2) We lynch one of the claimed players (preferably Charm, since he's VT)
3) We hunker down for a no lynch and chalk today up to "LET'S FIGURE OUT WHO EACH OTHER ARE INSTEAD OF TRYING TO ******* HUNT SCUM"
I'm interested in a potential Octo wagon.
@Seppel *****, I for some reason attributed Iso's knowledge of the playerbase to you also. There are like 4 of us still unrevealed, use POE to figure out Oct's identity.
NOW here's a useful post. Oct is Proph, and there's literally no suspicion on Proph rigt now. In fact, at one point, I remembering defending Proph.
Also there's proof that I wasn't paying attention to the names of anyone. I'm also going to use this as a defense against someone suggesting a scumteam of me with Jobie or Proph.
June's tone is way too condescending and more attacking than assertive. I don't like the way he's continued to push Charm, who's looked more and more townie since his wagon lost steam initially.
Unvote, Vote: Juuuuunnnn
Ahh geez, Jobie Jobie Jobie... that Oct/Proph wagon lasted so shortly...
June's tone is way too condescending and more attacking than assertive. I don't like the way he's continued to push Charm, who's looked more and more townie since his wagon lost steam initially.
Unvote, Vote: Juuuuunnnn
nobody cares what you think
Love you too, Seppel.
Also, Seppel, I'm all for trusting protection roles until they're alive late in the game. I don't see why you're so hellbent on potentially lynching a power role on Day 1 when there are better options.
Uh huh. And you didn't have an issue with the DCIII/Azrael counterclaim?
I just feel like this momentum shift is scum-driven. It feels like too many people are in favor of June's death, and that usually ends in a townie lynch. I'm willing to lynch June eventually, but not before we lynch the people infinitely more likely to be scum. Like Oct and Hunt, for example.
I've shifted myself over to June because Oct's wagon has stalled out. In order from most ideal to least ideal, list these possibilities:
Lynch Charm
Lynch Az
Lynch Oct
Lynch June
No Lynch
Other Lynch
Three of the five concrete options are non-ideal to me, I'm just curious where you fall.
I've shifted myself over to June because Oct's wagon has stalled out.
In what universe did Oct's wagon stall out? There was a period of 2-3 days where people were like "**** YEAH LET'S LYNCH OCT" and then a few people said "ehh maybe we should lynch June" and the pace of the shift over to June was absurd. That's alarm bells and red flags to me. The fact that the Oct wagon allegedly "stalled out" should be a huge indicator that it's a good wagon, especially in face of this awful June run-up. Come on, people. Use your heads.
Starts clapping like a seal and barking. Yeah, that's a good point. Unvote, Vote: Oct
Dec's has been EXTREMELY bandwagony. Look at how many times he's switched: Charm, Juun, me, Octo - all of us have been pushed by Decs pretty casually, and you don't see corresponding town reads coming up much. Reads given are short, cursory, quite fakeable.
I despise day 1, abhor it even. I never feel as though I can get a solid read without knowing the alignment of another player in the game.
Also, I don't actually remember pushing your wagon; I definitely never voted for you. This is partly because I was absent for it and once I saw your true identity (and role) I felt that the wagon was not a good one. I was also never part of Charm's wagon. I never voted for him, I have opposed it a majority of the way, with my opposition only ceasing while trying to evaluate Sep = Charm, not Sep = Az, as I believed. June was a thoughtless wagon, I'll grant you, but Oct was on the most recent scum list I've posted and once I saw the wagon gaining steam I hopped on.
3 players have voted for more unique players than me (ignoring RVS stage votes): Az, Hunt, Seppel. Also, kudos to DC3, Proph and KA for not ******* up and posting on their real accounts.
My top 2 scum at this point are July and August. I'll draw you a picture to explain tomorrow.
See post 387 for examples of my most recent reads. I despise the Charm lynch, though I'm hopeful for Day 2 to shed some light on the game-state.
Take out Az from that lineup, and Az is correct. Jobie really hasn't provided much substance against the people he's voted. Then again, it's Day 1, and Jobie despises Day 1.
It's like you're waving your hand and making people bend to your will, I don't understand how you're doing it. Look at your bolded language, you're theorizing about why a Doc can exist along with my role when you should know that it exists because it's your role. You're accepting my role as fact and arguing the possibility of your role as opposed to knowing your role is real and considering the possibility of mine. It's because you're thinking of this as how to convince an audience and it's not conveying your own reality. I admire your pluck, Az, but this is getting ridiculous - you're clearly trying to diffuse and extend.
It usually doesn't do the town much good for me to simply declare - "but I AM the doctor! For reals!" I generally try to avoid that in mafia. Second, I didn't say "if, hypothetically, I were the doctor, then I could theoretically exist!" I addressed YOUR argument. I said that *I* wouldn't *say* that your role precludes the possiblity of my role existing.
EBWDTP: Because that's never backfired on you before when someone else did that...
I will take a look back at the Charm wagon. See how that all went down.
Besides your abrupt hammer?
Iso, DC3, Az and I never voted for Charm (and Charm, obviously).
Proph voted for Charm as we were exiting RVS, but was not on the final lynch.
The remaining players were on the wagon, WG and GJ having the longest standing votes. KA, Seppel, Hunt and Necarg all left the wagon for Az's wagon around 285.
Actually, how about a Venn Diagram for yesterday's big 3 wagons (sorry for the poor formatting, counting and labeling was too hard apparently):
It may be fair to characterize Proph with Iso in the Azrael only voter group, since his vote on Charm was in that weird transition stage.
One small difference from that game: I'm not pushing an agenda with my venn diagram. I'm simply using it as a way to share my notes. You can't honestly tell me that looking at who was on what wagons isn't a valuable tool for finding scum.
I mean ZDS even said:
Quote from from "ZDS (in Avant Garde Spectator Chat)" »
Seppel's style can be annoying, but I think his votes are fine (his votes are pretty much the only thing you can use to analyse him).
Are you jerking me around?
Is this one of those double-bluffs, wher eyou used a venn diagram when you were scum, then used it again thinking that you couldn't use the same tactic twice?
The Venn Diagram didn't tell you anything anyway. Don't believe me? This is your next post:
Venn diagrams are great and all, but where's your analysis of the D1 wagons?
Sorry. It was late and I decided sleeping was better than going back to read the vote posts or giving anything meaningful. (A Picture is worth a 1000 words, /jerkoffmotion)
KA's vote on the Charm lynch is awful, Necarg's is acceptable, but lacks reasoning on why he didn't think Charm was actually VT, Seppel does Seppel things to jump on and Hunt hammered with 5 days left on the clock, after we just burned an extension to get 7 more days. The Az wagon was an obvious railroading of an oddly behaving townie to me, but I don't think anyone looks bad for being on it since it was a slow progressing wagon and most of the votes were well thought out. Proph, your wagon was a small side wagon, but it led into the ill conceived GJ wagon that went way too fast.
I remember yesterday, Seppel (or Iso, one of the two, I think) mentioned that speed of a wagon also matters. If the GJ wagon was fast, then this Hunt wagon is just as fast. 5 votes in 27 posts. Even though the combination of Hunt's desire to be named yesterday, his awful hammer, and rampant wagoning (he was on all 3 major wagons, plus Proph's) makes me want to lynch him, something feels off. I can't put my finger on what's wrong with it. Especially since 4 of the 5 players voting for him are on my town list.
Translation: WHO KNOWS
Proph followed up, asking why 4 of 5 on the wagon blah blah
One small difference from that game: I'm not pushing an agenda with my venn diagram. I'm simply using it as a way to share my notes. You can't honestly tell me that looking at who was on what wagons isn't a valuable tool for finding scum.
How about town? Did you find any townies? Who is unmistakably town to you? And why? You only have to name one person.
My "Strong Enough to be Mentionable" townie reads are Iso, Az, and WG.
Unmistakably town is Iso, due to his behavior and your naming/role based clearing of him.
@Proph: Something about the wagon feels off to me. I'm just having this weird dissonance. I like the idea of lynching Hunt, most of the players supporting it are on my town list, I don't like his claim, and his desire to be named early doesn't jive; but something feels... off. I can't put my finger on it.
@Iso: Did you end up going 12 for 12 on your "real name" read post?
This post is fine except it has that response to proph which is basically WHO KNOWS
Will Proph follow up?
Now we get to the post where Jobie responds to DCIII. There's a lot more to this post than was quoted.
I despise day 1, abhor it even. I never feel as though I can get a solid read without knowing the alignment of another player in the game.
Also, I don't actually remember pushing your wagon; I definitely never voted for you. This is partly because I was absent for it and once I saw your true identity (and role) I felt that the wagon was not a good one. I was also never part of Charm's wagon. I never voted for him, I have opposed it a majority of the way, with my opposition only ceasing while trying to evaluate Sep = Charm, not Sep = Az, as I believed. June was a thoughtless wagon, I'll grant you, but Oct was on the most recent scum list I've posted and once I saw the wagon gaining steam I hopped on.
3 players have voted for more unique players than me (ignoring RVS stage votes): Az, Hunt, Seppel. Also, kudos to DC3, Proph and KA for not ******* up and posting on their real accounts.
My top 2 scum at this point are July and August. I'll draw you a picture to explain tomorrow.
See post 387 for examples of my most recent reads. I despise the Charm lynch, though I'm hopeful for Day 2 to shed some light on the game-state.
This is a record keeping post. Look at the way he's wording things, he's tracing his steps. "I definitely never voted for you. I was never part of Charm's wagon. I never voted for Charm. I despise the Charm lynch." It's an alibi post. I think he knows what the flip is going to be and is distancing himself from it hard. Previously to that, he'd mentioned Charm looking more townie since his claim when he voted Juunn, but wasn't pushing against the wagon much at all and, prior to that when Charm was in danger of being lynched the first time, had mentioned that Charm wasn't someone he'd give a D1 pass to. With all of that back and forth about Charm, the most vocal he was about stopping it it was after the lynch had happened.
I’ll agree I wouldn’t have been opposed to Charm lynch the first time around, but as the day continued to progress it seemed less and less likely that Charm wasn’t scum. Especially the ease with which everyone jumped back onto his wagon when it seemed like the game was going nowhere. Also, I said Charm wasn’t someone to give a D1 pass to, but that’s not the whole story. That was a thought based off the fact that I thought Sep == Az. Az is on the list of a handful of people who I will always oppose a lynch for Day 1 if they’re acting funny. It’s a list that consists of Az, Seppel, Iso and Cyan if we’re talking about active players (Sir Chris may be on that list, but I’m not sure).
Quote from from = “DC3” »
Here's what he said when we were getting close to the deadline and the Az wagon was losing momentum:
We have 3-4 days until deadline? We have 3 choices:
1) We have a 3rd big wagon for the day, we don't like that persons claim, so we lynch them. 2) We lynch one of the claimed players (preferably Charm, since he's VT)
3) We hunker down for a no lynch and chalk today up to "LET'S FIGURE OUT WHO EACH OTHER ARE INSTEAD OF TRYING TO ******* HUNT SCUM"
I'm interested in a potential Octo wagon.
@Seppel *****, I for some reason attributed Iso's knowledge of the playerbase to you also. There are like 4 of us still unrevealed, use POE to figure out Oct's identity.
He expresses interest in a Proph wagon after Az votes Proph and Iso pushes him, but doesn't do anything about it - his language in point #1 "third big wagon of the Day" actually frames it as an undesirable option.
That is not the way that was meant to read. It’s meant as a “We’ve ****ed up our first 2 wagons and gone after obvtowns, let’s actually hunt scum now.
Quote from DC3 »
This post isn't taking a stance around what he actually wants to do other than temperature checking the Proph wagon - he's presenting options and isn't making any of them sound desirable... but he's not asking for an extension which GJ already did at this point, which you'd think he'd be doing if he had this opinion about the game state.
That’s downright unfair. I listed them in order of my preference. Obviously 3 is a terrible option, 2 has the out of being under pressure from a deadline, and 1 is something I’d like to do, but no one else seemed to have major interest in. Also, I failed to read the extension rules in the first post so I thought we were at the mercy of the mod for an extension. I've never been in a game that has mechanics regarding extensions like this one.
This post isn't discouraging against a Charm lynch, it's putting it forward as the best option, but in the first post I quoted he "despises" the Charm lynch, but if he really despised it, he wouldn't have couched it like he did above.
Again, you’re misrepresenting my point. I’m saying a Charm lynch is better than Deadline Induced No Lynch. Lynching a Vanilla Town is strictly better than a No Lynch because there’s information to be had from analyzing the lynch and Charm’s interactions.
Then the extension is granted, Iso votes Proph and then Jobie does, then joins the GJ wagon because the Oct wagon "lost momentum" which Iso pointed out how that was bogus.
Yeah this was really dumb and I voted for GJ without thinking (or you could say... thoughtlessly).
In the first quote he also says that he thought Sept was Az earlier - and he said that he thought Sept was Town because he thought Sept was Charm, which means he'd have thought he could read Az well, which I don't buy becauuuuuse:
This is exactly my stance on Seppel also. I have a handful of other players who fall into that category, you being one of them.
He said he's more cautious taking a firm read on players like Seppel and Az. But on page 2 he was town reading Sept based on his play because he thought it was Az when many people were suspecting him:
Poor comprehension of my point again. Think of it this way:
Players like Cyan, Seppel and Az are like Elves. In certain RPGs, Elves have certain traits that are beneficial (+1 AGI, Bow Proficiency, etc.). I treat Cyan, Seppel and Az as though they have “+1 to Townieness, during Days 1-3” from the outset. They start with a vaguely townie feel which drops off after a period of time. They’re strong enough players that there is going to be some truth to their reads, even if they’re scum.
For clarity, my final @ was supposed to be @September, not at Seppel, who is apparently not Octopus.
@Feb: Because I'm confident I can name September. I wasn't confident about October and was guessing on a hunch.
@Oct: I'm not comfortable with lynching September because of who I believe his true name is and based on his behavior I don't think he's scum.
My question to him for that, btw, was why would he care if Sept wanted him to name him but not care if Oct did - which is where he responded because he was more confident that he could name Sept... which I've covered how that makes no sense because he tried to name the person he was less confident he would get correct and was concerned if Sept wanted him to name him but wasn't concerned about Oct. Most likely scenario here is that he thought Sept was Az and wanted to Town read him while others weren't but didn't want to step on his toes while naming him. But the main point being, his early read on Sept/Az was fake because he spoke up two pages in to say he didn't think Sept was scum because it was Az but, later, said that he isn't comfortable taking a firm read on Az generally.
If that’s the point I portrayed then it was not how I intended it to be portrayed. I don’t like taking a strong scum stance on players of higher caliber than mine early on.
Also, if you go back up to the first post, he says that the GJ wagon was a thoughtless wagon - but this was before the Juunn flip - and he'd previously said that he didn't like that Juunn named WG when he was giving a reads list, so saying it was thoughtless was down playing it. I think he knew GJ's alignment so he was trying hard to get away from the wagon once he saw the claim.
K. Or it’s that I regret joining the wagon, since I wasn’t really thinking hard about.
Then in that first post again he lists Necarg and KA as his top two scum reads (which, their play style and vote patterns make it hard for me to believe that someone doing legit analysis would think both are together) saying he'll give reasons for both Today, but he enters Today voting Oct again to "pick up where we left off" and he presents that vote like an afterthought. And then later when he does give the analysis of KA and Necarg he doesn't even seem very convinced of his read on Necarg - but it was enough to list him as a top two scum read the Day before despite the fact that he'd been pushing to lynch Oct and he carried that read into Today.
All 3 of them are in the same region on the venn diagram, I also stated Necarg over Proph without looking at context of the votes, only who put votes down. The post was a bit rushed since it was in twilight.
tl;dr - Jobie's read on Sept when he thought it was Az was made up
his voting patterns don't jive with his claimed mindset,
and his end of Day post knew the alignment of both Charm and GJ before they flipped and was working to distance himself from scum reading them, especially the Charm wagon which he didn't discourage with anywhere near the commitment that he showed once it had gone through.
He's scum with Hunt.
...and it's rather uninteresting. Just more cops and "I didn't mean it that way" and corrections to DCIII.
Okay, by my count, the only people that either haven't given their opinion or are opposed to the Hunt lynch are:
Hunt – The Guy Being Lynched
DC3 – The guy tunneling me
And I'm not opposed to the lynch, so much as apprehensive. This makes it highly likely that the scum are bussing the ***** out of Hunt, if he's scum. Nobody else thinks this is weird?
Goddamnit. I hate playing mafia without a second screen so I can have my notes up at the same time. DC3 supports the lynch too since he voted at the top of this page.
Okay... so 9 of 10 living players support the lynch...
This is a good point. Unfortunately to goes nowhere, as the day ends.
...even though you opened with a vote on me and you said earlier I need to be lynched if I'm alive in lylo?
Anyway, we're up to present-day now, so I'm going to call it here: I don't know. There's a lot of questionable behavior, but that's why I'm questioning him.
Jobie, help me help you. Answer the questions bro.
So I definitely read the quote-failed version before seeing you fixed it over here.
I can answer the collective questions about me naming Oct and caring so much about naming:
It's three parts:
1) I assumed this game would be giving out abilities like candy for correctly naming people. So part of the frustration was about me being VT and wanting to get names.
2) I hadn't thought of the possibility of someone gaining abilities by correctly naming people, so I didn't see a drawback to naming people with no benefit to me.
3) I was a kid with a new toy and wanted to play with it.
I'll get to the rest of the post when I get home.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia Stats (10-22 Overall) Random Mafia 2 Town MVP '08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
I'm almost putting the cart before the horse on how bad that sounds.
Look at the cases Seppel is making.[/uuote]
I did, more's the pity. Even the one he broke, twice.
[quote]He goes through all of that trouble to case both KA and Necarg, he lands an indecisive read on KA where he likes his play better than me and Proph and a Town read on Necarg.
This is what happened.
He's got a strong scum read on me, and he likes KA's play better than mine, and our roles are incompatible, but he doesn't come out of the case liking KA, just liking him better than me and Proph. But here's the thing - he read through all of his posts and it didn't dawn on him that KA's play didn't actually make sense. He counters Az because of his role, sure. I counter Az because of my role and KA doesn't say a thing about me.
This is the one part I like about DC's response.
No suspicion of me, doesn't feel the need to speak up about his role at that time. Then Yesterday starts and he names me? If he wasn't suspicious of me the Day before despite my role being very similar to his, why in the world would he be suspicious of me killing him? He wouldn't. It doesn't make sense. Then when I point that out to Seppel, he says it's a good point, but he doesn't reconsider his read on anything, he asks me if I've brought that up against him - which I did in #728 when I said there's no way KA wouldn't have countered me when he did and how he still wasn't expressing suspicion of Az or myself. So, Seppel not only doesn't reconsider his read and tries to turn it back on me, he isn't aware of the points I'm making on this very page when I'm the person he most thinks is scum!
when does seppel ever pay attention except in retrospect? You know Seppel about as well if not better than I.
Then, look at the Necarg case. He's reaching for ways in which Necarg's claim makes sense. His theory is that Necarg gave away the cop ability to Hunt and Hunt died. But he's talking for Necarg - why not just ask Necarg if that's what his ability did? Not to mention that stance doesn't make any sense because Hunt was still suspecting Necarg when he died - and why wouldn't Hunt have said anything if he'd gotten an investigative ability before he died? He would have. Then, later in the post, Seppel discredits that theory because Necarg said it wasn't the case, but that doesn't change his opinion on the claim at all. And he wouldn't be defending Necarg there if Necarg wasn't scum too, he'd just let him get lynched.
I take it back, I also like this part too.
He's shaping his world view around an agenda, but he isn't thinking critically about the game, and Seppel isn't dense. Lock it up! Seppel, KA, Necarg scum team. GG.
But the parts don't really sum together. Seppel/KA/necarg just doesn't make sense as a scumteam; why would seppel make such an effort to try to clear BOTH his buddies right now? Particularly when neither is very fondly looked upon?
Plus, coming up with this scumteam reeks of omgus which is what I initially focused on.
Those questions I just asked aren't rhetorical, btw; I like the parts upon rereading but I just don't see the sum yet. Convince me.
I've been coming to the same conclusion as you DC3. Complete /barn of that post.
I'd like to hear from Az, WG, and Proph before we proceed with stringing up Seppel. I'd also like to go reread ISO from yesterday.
I do not want to lynch Seppel right now. Possibly even if I decided he's scum.
DC keeps making good points but Seppel is trying really hard and I badly want him to be town because he never tries anymore and I *like* when he tries goddammit.
---
Jobie's response is really good. He's also Jobie, so as much as I want to take him off the table I don't think it's prudent given that he fooled us all last game.
@June: I believe you're misunderstanding me. I'm 99% sure I know who September is. Additionally, his behavior is not scummy in my eyes, despite a number of you supposing that he is. I don't understand your suggestion that I'm attempting to appear as though I'm scum hunting. I'm disagree on points that are mostly related to tonal scummyness, which I believe are both terrible reasons to pursue someone D1 AND are not scummy based on who I believe September is.
Poorly Worded == Scum in this game, apparently.
So you're familiar with Charm's posts?
So at this time I thought Sep was Az. I was basing my read on him on the fact that "Sep is a well respected analyst, who if put behind a mask may be viewed as scummy".
Vote: Jan
I read that the same way as Huntzilla. The only way Jan's post is useful in anyway, is if he does "Apr/Hunt" or the like. Since he didn't the post may as well have been him facerolling gibberish on the keyboard.
In fact, I just don't like Jan's playstyle at all so far.
Voting based on playsyle? :/ Are you just throwing votes out at this point?
I didn't like Jan/Iso's read post in 109 because it seemed like a "I want to seem like I'm being helpful, but I'm not actually" post.
June's tone is way too condescending and more attacking than assertive. I don't like the way he's continued to push Charm, who's looked more and more townie since his wagon lost steam initially.
Unvote, Vote: Juuuuunnnn
Ahh geez, Jobie Jobie Jobie... that Oct/Proph wagon lasted so shortly...
June's tone is way too condescending and more attacking than assertive. I don't like the way he's continued to push Charm, who's looked more and more townie since his wagon lost steam initially.
Unvote, Vote: Juuuuunnnn
nobody cares what you think
Love you too, Seppel.
Also, Seppel, I'm all for trusting protection roles until they're alive late in the game. I don't see why you're so hellbent on potentially lynching a power role on Day 1 when there are better options.
Uh huh. And you didn't have an issue with the DCIII/Azrael counterclaim?
Is it really a counterclaim? Az gave out a bodyguard shot, DC3 becomes bulletproof when correctly naming, KA became unkillable by players he's named. Az is the only one with a drawback it's KA v DC3 that makes me a little iffy at this point, but not to the same degree Necarg's odd claim makes me nervous.
Is this one of those double-bluffs, wher eyou used a venn diagram when you were scum, then used it again thinking that you couldn't use the same tactic twice?
It's a way for me to try to visualize my notes. I started tracking voting tendencies towards the end of my time at MTGS and it started to help my Win%. Just because I used it as scum in our last game, doesn't mean it's a scum tell. It just means I've been gone a while and decided to try something new last game, regardless of my alignment.
Venn diagrams are great and all, but where's your analysis of the D1 wagons?
Sorry. It was late and I decided sleeping was better than going back to read the vote posts or giving anything meaningful. (A Picture is worth a 1000 words, /jerkoffmotion)
KA's vote on the Charm lynch is awful, Necarg's is acceptable, but lacks reasoning on why he didn't think Charm was actually VT, Seppel does Seppel things to jump on and Hunt hammered with 5 days left on the clock, after we just burned an extension to get 7 more days. The Az wagon was an obvious railroading of an oddly behaving townie to me, but I don't think anyone looks bad for being on it since it was a slow progressing wagon and most of the votes were well thought out. Proph, your wagon was a small side wagon, but it led into the ill conceived GJ wagon that went way too fast.
I remember yesterday, Seppel (or Iso, one of the two, I think) mentioned that speed of a wagon also matters. If the GJ wagon was fast, then this Hunt wagon is just as fast. 5 votes in 27 posts. Even though the combination of Hunt's desire to be named yesterday, his awful hammer, and rampant wagoning (he was on all 3 major wagons, plus Proph's) makes me want to lynch him, something feels off. I can't put my finger on what's wrong with it. Especially since 4 of the 5 players voting for him are on my town list.
Translation: WHO KNOWS
Okay. "WHO KNOWS" is is a little strong. KA's vote on the Charm lynch was bad. Really. Really. Bad.
You've never had one of those situations where you've got a pile of tells on one player, but you can't fight the feeling that they're town? That's what I was getting.
Jobie you are a mastermind. No slips. And the only thing that made me blink was your comment about KA. I have no idea why it did, and I can't tell what it means. But I can tell you that my eyes widened while reading that part.
Because there are more important things to discuss. Also Necarg is a newbie who probably didn't know that you're supposed to claim miller on D1. You think his team would really suggest he claim miller on Day 3?
@Wheat - Effort late game isn't a town tell for Seppel - you were in Majora's Mask. I don't remember what game it was but I remember he and Voxxicus quote wall after quote walling with each other when he was scum and Vox was town. I'm sure he does it as town as well - it's an investment tell more than anything else. Paying attention is consistent or inconsistent for him as either alignment. I've seen him forget who his scum buddy was and I've seen him not know what was going on as Town, but that's almost always during the point of the game where he isn't invested. Like, it's not a tell for him that he didn't know Az's role couldn't protect Iso, for example. My point being, he's engaged now, he's paying attention now and I'm his top suspect and when I'm asking him about his read on KA, he was trying to discredit it by making it seem like I hadn't brought it up previously, which I had on the same page, and which he'd have known if he was actually solving.
He keeps trying to say that I had no reason to name Proph when I did even though it's obvious why I did it, none of my responses to that register to him - then look at how he reacts to others. Proph claims Vanilla and he just calls him boring. I call Seppel out about his lack of interest in Proph, and he then he asks Proph the question after the fact and declares Proph is scum - he's casing a bunch of people now to make it seem like he's solving, but if he was, that question wouldn't have been after the fact, he'd have cared about it rather than calling him boring. KA's approach makes no sense at all - he wasn't suspicious enough to counterclaim me despite our roles but then he named me Day two to protect from kills from me. Seppel cases KA in full, and this never occurs to him. I call it out to Seppel, and he says it's a good point but asks if I've brought it up, which I did. He's not actually interested in my answers or what I'm doing or in that point (about why people were naming) - he's trying to make that point stick against me - but he's acting like he's trying to solve the game by going through these cases - but there's no critical thinking about the cases themselves. It's optics. He didn't actually ever think that Necarg gave an investigative ability to Huntzilla - because Hunt would have said something before he died, he wouldn't have continued to suspect Necarg as he was dying. He's writing things to look like he's staying objective and putting in the effort to solve, but he's not actually thinking them through.
He said Proph is scum as a result of Proph's reasoning earlier, but he "might as well" case Proph tomorrow. If he thinks Proph is scum and he cased Necarg, KA, Jobie, and myself, then it wouldn't be a "might as well" - he prioritized town casing Necarg prior to casing Proph who he's said is scum.
None of it is natural.
Look at his reaction to my last post. He's just dismissing it and saying I'm preaching to nobody... I'm obviously talking to everyone else. But that's the thing, he didn't address any of the content in there about how his stances don't add up, he just hand waved them. That's the kind of post where, if he was Town, he'd be taking me to task for - instead, he's moving along.
Why would he defend both there... he's not really defending KA - he's just saying he likes him better than me and Proph. Also notice how, despite not liking me and despite liking KA better than me, he's never acknowledged that our roles are counters to each other. Re: Necarg - I know I've defended teammates that people were piling on before for the "would he really be so overt about sticking up for a scum buddy move" - and the whole "would scum really tell a buddy to claim Miller Day 3" is WIFOM and he's the one who has theorized how the miller might fit in somewhere - but regardless of the motive around both, the thing that's telling is that he's trying to give the appearance that he has an open mind to the game but his stances and conclusions and the way he's viewing the cases show that he's driving an agenda. He's talking for Necarg and speculating that Necarg gave out the ability to Hunt rather than just asking him despite the fact that makes zero sense based on how Hunt played. He's creating reasons for Necarg that Necarg is town, that's a give away.
unvote
That octopustoes needed to be told what fishing was (and it was a fairly blatant fish at that)is very weird, and makes me think it's deflecting away experience. Implies to me that it's probably someone renowned for his/her scum game and may be trying too hard to ensure they're not found out. Or as comment below, just nerves about being discovered in general.
You Are trying too hard
Also nice fence youre sitting on. With the bolded.
If thou wishest to uncover mine Name, shouldest thou find succor only if thou be Mechanically confirmed. A fervent Wish have I, to find my Name unsheath'd, but it is of Utmost importance that it be Unsheath'd by the correct Master.
Henceforth shall I Treat any attempt to Name me by the unconfirméd to be a Declaration of unsavory attempt which shall End in the death of the Same.
Be there others amongst Us, whom Similar protections desire? So have I requested, so shall I Also grant in Exchange.
With Mine warning giv'n, I do desire to place mine Vote.
so tl;dr you get something, but only if a certain person unmasks you. Either neutral with an alt win con or a locked power role.
The "fence sitting" as you so nicely dubbed it was just airing two potential reasons why someone needs to get named by one specific person. As for neutrals, I more or less just expect one to be around.
Jan has noted since that he's just trying to hide his identity so I'm willing to concede that, but we had no way of knowing that before he posted.
Also, that MaytheForce hasn't responded to novel's question is rather disconcerting. FoS: MaytheForce
I'm honestly a little surprised both name attempts on me have failed - once I'm outted it should become fairly obvious.
Novel is almost confirmed town at this point IMO, and otco's read on me is reasonable, albeit misguided.
Juunn's double VNL seems like it's a placating move to seem less threatening with the whole "i can't hammer from L-2, I'm on VNL!" thing. I'm not convinced, though. Vote: Juunn
Why dont I like this post???? Every Time someone says that a scumread on them is "reasonable" I take it as an admission of guilt.
The Jun vote is very Bad too.
I think Septicemia_Itis right now will be the best lynch
Of course we know people can have things that trigger off correct IDs/being ID'd. It'd be silly to think otherwise, because again - without a mechanic like that to benefit the unmasking, there's no reason for this to not just be blind mafia. Nice appeal to ignorance though.
Another note, May STILL hasn't posted since WG's question. May be nothing but probably is something.
Are You really accusing May of lurking, When the game has only been open for a few Days????
Thoughts
Hunt-112, For the vote on Jan, you are quite townish, but imo the jan brock vote is tad weak, considering all the other stuff thats been going on in the previous 143 or so posts.
Dec/March... If I was to quote, every post That I disagree with of both of you, I'd be able to right a 7 part novel... One of you is probably scumbuddehs with Septimica_Itis (even if Septemicia isn't Scum, I still think one of you are) I specifically Don't like how you guys quickly voted Jan in that short time frame, it feel Opportunistic...
Spoilers: I was trying to do my best Azrael impression at the time, which did, in fact, require me to not check the thread as frequently as I normally do.
As for the content of this post, there's not much to say. The content is fine. It just doesn't feel Prophy.
It's possible that Proph is doing this on purpose to not be namable, but since he claimed vanilla, I don't think it's very important.
As far as the Naming without authorization goes: Do you think Juunn is scum for Naming me without authorization? If you said it before I've forgotten, all I know is that there's nowhere near enough people who want to lynch him right now so I'm proselytizing.
Cardinal rule in mafia: if you tell someone not to do something or they will be Lynched and they do It, they won't be Lynched
This is INCREDIBLY off-putting. Double Votes are lethal at LyLo but need to be vetted or else dealt with as soon as they're made public in my opinion. probably the only thing WORSE than a scum multivoter is a town multivoter who doesn't know who's scum.
some thoughts at the moment...
Wheat_Grinder... i find it difficult to believe that Septemicia_Itis and Dec are scum together, The way that Dec defended Sept suggests to me that they Aren't scumbuddehs.
YuLying2Me- How did the Reactions from your First post help you in any way???
And that wagon vote seems very Fishy.
unvote vote YuLying2Me
Septimicia Might be town with his last post, YuLying, Give me a reason as to NOT vote for you.
Proph engages Necarg in an interesting way. The Charm wagon was dying at this point, I believe.
Reads
Getting the job done- have a town lean on them, their general attitude is basically that of sticking to the task at hand.
Wheat_Grinder
Huntzilla
Iso
Seppel
Decerberate
Straying from the point.
the febbre; I feel that the emphasis on substance, (granted I added to it,) falls into this category.
Divi; There's just something about your posts. (general reading doesnt really do much)
Septemicia; I didnt like his posts early on but his last post is ok.
This is INCREDIBLY off-putting. Double Votes are lethal at LyLo but need to be vetted or else dealt with as soon as they're made public in my opinion. probably the only thing WORSE than a scum multivoter is a town multivoter who doesn't know who's scum.
Ping!
(scumdar)
1st off, he votes Jan but agrees with him on Sept, 2nd, no vote on Sept.
Catching up, taking notes, etc. Ask me stuff if you want or whatever.
In the meantime, Vote septicemia because he be actin supah scum.
Last post was to get reactions while I caught up on other things, I was skim reading then, those were my very first impressions.
This is where I come in, and say I do... everyone else in their vote for Sept, gave somewhat of a reason... but you, not really, add to that the inactivity blues, and my biased opinion, but yeah.
His read post is mostly accurate.
However, note that he has Febbre/DCIII as "straying from the point" yet he's NEVER SAID ANYTHING to Febbre or about Febbre at all.
Proph disappears for a while, then comes back with this:
I think I'm coming around on being fine with a Huntzilla lynch, eventually, but I want to see March hang, first.
Why do You think Hunt is scum???
March, Why is Feb "silly town"??? What makes him silly?? I Noticed You've described him like that twice.
I think March right now will be the best lynch, as its possible Yu is just a n00b, and other things as well.
unvote vote march
I am (or should be) going to bed soon, maybe add a few more points tomorrow.
Holy ***** he used "BEST LYNCH" again.
Wait a minute, Dec is still town? How is that possible? Here's Proph's quotes on Dec/Jobie:
"Dec/March... If I was to quote, every post That I disagree with of both of you, I'd be able to right a 7 part novel..."
"i find it difficult to believe that Septemicia_Itis and Dec are scum together, The way that Dec defended Sept suggests to me that they Aren't scumbuddehs."
I've started to come around to the school of thinking that the more absurd Huntzilla's posts and theories get, the more likely he is to be scum. But that's neither here nor there.
What Huntzilla Posts are absurd??? He Has been mild mannered so far.
Really? Even though Necarg's declared playstyle is "I refuse to inject original thought into the game"?
-wheat is Town because claim and behavior...
-hunt is town for the jan vote, but I need To reread him
-Iso is town because of the Jan outing of players and three Players opportunistically voting him
-Seppel is town due to May play..
-March is town because doc claim and wanting to lynch a player who is Defending him instead Of moving to the closest Wagon
-Charm is town due to nilla play once @ l2
-Dec is town because 205...
-Juun is town due to behavior and outing of Wheat, which might be too Ballsy of a scum play
Like I said, I have most of the game POEd out. I Might need to reevaluate but not for D1, and Ive already Reevaluated on March and Charm.
I talked about it in my Jobie read. It's the one where I questioned why Jobie wanted to name people, which is a hell of a lot better than Proph's reason but still not great.
I don't see how that's a golden post at all. It's mostly boring.
I don't think Hunt is town for the vote on me.
Seppel is town for other reasons; what parts of May's play did you like?
I don't understand your reasoning for Charm. Explain?
Explain, in your own words, what makes Dec townie for 205.
Given who I think I know June is, it doesn't seem out of his scum range to try something so brash. Why do you think otherwise?
ya...
-thus why I need to reread him... it seems improbable that I have the whole game Figured out D1, and Only Yu is a scumread to me, hunt is lowest of the Totem Pole.
-I Liked May's 131, looking @ mindsets behind posts
-ever since charm was outed and claimed he has played in a townie Manner, see 424 And 204...
-he's continued to defend Sept, strong D1 defenses Usually come from town, followed my Thought Process on YuLying, not To mention the Reason why you townread him for That post
-Juun has been Actively scumhunting and looking At players. Wheat fight looks Town on Town as well
Everything's fine. I just don't buy the reasoning for Dec/Jobie's towniness. That post is a pile of meh. And then there's the reasoning behind naming that I already mentioned.
As a side note, I checked my 131, and I didn't realize that quote wall was so big. No wonder I was found out.
Option 2 is the only option I support. I'm more than willing to lynch Charm toDay and sort out March later.
As far as option 1 goes, I could see Huntz and/or YuLy as scum as I've stated before, but neither read has a strong enough basis for me yet. I'd much rather work on sorting those reads out toMorrow.
Anyone besides those is a lynch that I won't support unless someone has some really convincing evidence.
We are NOT touching my leans... If you want to argue the fact that they are maf, I will argue the fact that they can only be town.
I think we should request extension and Lynch YuLying. Good chance that both People we ran up Today are town.
request ext A
"Don't lynch that townie, lynch this one! Also, let's burn our deadline extension request." Okay, that's conflating it a bit. It's just hard to see Proph taking himself seriously.
Then Proph goes on to question Necarg and answer Iso's followup questions. Boring. Let's get to the good parts!
Here's where Az calls out Proph. It's a good post. Az saw some of the same stuff I did:
Okay, I'm dropping this post restriction because it's interfering with my ability to play the game and I don't want to stab myself with a fork every time I make a post. (FTR, I was roleplaying fank009 from the first Championships game)
---
Quote from Az »
I hated this post the first time on reread through, because the portion of Sept's posts that he calls a fence-sit, isn't a fence-sit. He's not wavering awkwardly between two possibilities, he' saying "I see x, therefore y or z is true." Scum will frequently resort to "carding" other players for technical violations of traditional scum tells, regardless of whether those technical violations really have any meaningful connection to alignment.
In the same post, oct pull outs the technical carding technique a second time with calling out Sept merely for being the first player to mention the word "neutrals"
Fair enough for your first point, but your second point is false. I've noticed that mentioning neutrals often leads to scum in many cases in my games (such as Taredas in Gatecrash) and it was a large part as to why I intially scumread Charm for that post. It's not techical carding.
Quote from Az »
An FOS for not responding to someone's questions is scummy? This is another ridiculous technical foul. Pointing out that you don't appreciate someone's failure to respond to another person's question is a textbook appropriate way to use a FOS. It's a minor factor that should be pointed out, but it falls far short of deserving a vote.
Oct is simply looking for ways to ding Charm as much as possible here.
Of course I wanted to "ding Charm as much as possible" - at the time, I thought he was scum and should have been lynched. And once again using an FoS instead of a vote is another common scumtell. You're applying your own playstyle onto other player's actions - even if /you/ think that's an appropriate way to use an FoS, in my mind, using an FoS instead of pressuring another player with a vote implies that you're being non-committal.
Quote from Az »
Every time? Hardly fair.
Oct's declaring sept to be the best lynch on a series of four completely meaningless party fouls.
Please tell me how "mentioning neutrals" and "FoSing without a vote" are completely meaningless. Those are scummy actions and I will lynch someone appropriately for doing them.
Fair enough on the fencesitting thing, and as for the "scumread is reasonable" thing, townies will usually defend themselves from attacks because they know they're town. Thinking that someone scumreading you is "reasonable" implies that you know you've been playing like scum, and it's a bit self aware in that aspect.
Quote from Az »
Opportunistic scum linking attempt, deftly done at that.
How is this opportunistic? When I thought that Charm was scum and you made that post I thought that you were testing the waters to see if your buddy's lynch would go through.
Quote from Az »
Interesting vote switch to Yu here, and asking for a reason not to vote for him is not usual for a townie. Townies generally vote people because they think they're scum, and then give the reasons why, and when they DO use their vote as more of a motivational tool, they usually will tell you what activity they want you to correct (such as giving reads, lurking less, etc.).
This reads more like Oct is seeking to vote for Yu without bruising Yu's feelings and creating friction. He asks permission, in a manner of speaking, to case Yu. Indicates probable Yu lurker-town, Oct scum.
First, tell me why would I as scum hop off of Charm and your lynch and then heavily defend both of you. Charm's claim post felt townie and Necarg's post was a terrible bandwagon vote to make Charm claim.
As for the vote rationale thing, I simply copy and pasted one of the person I was roleplaying as (fank)'s posts. I can link you to the post in question if you'd like.
Quote from Az »
Definitely getting the feeling that Oct has learned that the way into many townies' hearts is to call them townie publicly. He's tossing out easy town-reads here on half the town with very little explanation. Then, he moves on to pivot to the bandwagon du jour, without any explanation of why he finds the wagon to be the "best lynch". Which in itself, is a telling wording pattern he's used twice now. It's not that he thinks Sept or I are scummy, we're simply the "best lynch". Scum like this wording, since it allows them to avoid looking stupid or overly aggresive for being wrong when the lynch goes bad. Like it was just a bad bet. Probability.
Oct is scum. Look at his language patterns, look at his opportunistic wagon choices, his political cultivation of the most vocal members of the town, look at the way he cased Sept, and failed to give solid reason on me, but was succesful in originating or contributing pressure to both the town's major mislynch prospects today.
I've been calling a ton of people townie because I'm working on solving the game and a ton of people were obvtowning themselves quite early in the game. Since I had a (self-imposed) posting restriction, it was one of my main ways to contribute (same with the little reasoning, I can go more in-depth right now if you'd wish). I've also provided reasoning as to why I thought you were scum (admittedly it was scant). Like, I have a feeling that you're twisting every post I make to fit a conclusion that "I'm scum" - when you go into a PBPA thinking a player is scum, you'll come out of it even more sure of it.
-----
@Charm - are you willing to band together on lynching Necarg?
@Iso - Are we doing this song and dance again? If Necarg given you any reason to think he's town, why aren't you voting him?
@Decerberate - Do you have any reasoning as to why you think I'm scum? All you've said is "I'm interested in an Oct wagon".
Febbre's claim I feel solidifies him as town, but it's really weird having both roles in the game. I'm inclined to believe it though because scum granting a bodyguard ability just as a fakeclaim feels unlikely to me, and Charm/Az both being scum would be an extremely risky gambit (also, I think Charm is town). I don't think Febbre is right given how badly he misread him in Gatecrash D1.
Quote from Hunt »
What are you getting at with the bolded section? How does a weak vote equal "townish" to you?
I didn't think you were right re: Iso. This is also a fault of the posting restriction.
The gamestate has stalled out and the deadline is approaching. We really need to decide on a lynch.
@Febbre, Wheat - We're not lynching Charm OR Azrael Today. Pick someone else to lynch - re-evaluate the gamestate as if both of them were confirmed town. What changes?
Wheat's posts in particular look like he's ramming against a brick wall.
I'll look to see if I can case Necarg tomorrow.
I don't like the fact that he's not offering his suggestion on who to lynch and instead saying that "we really need to decide on a lynch."
Also, we don't get a Necarg case, I don't think.
Then, proph asks Wheat how his reads changed, particularly his read on Proph. I'm not quoting it because it's quotefailed, but here's the response to Wheat:
@Octo: You started making weird posts and Iso made points about you that are plausible.
I think you started making those weird posts a little before I made the first post but my faith in your alignment started shaking later.
Cite those "weird posts".
And I don't recall Iso making any points against me.
Quote from Febbre »
Your reasoning for believing Az is his ability and the risk of the gambit and thinking Charm is Town - so why are you bothering to say I misread him in Gatecrash? It's not like I can't be right about him if I misread him in the past, he's not playing similarly to that game - and you thought he was scum as well until you saw the claim - so why is it relevant that I misread him then now as opposed to earlier in the game when you were on board and I was still reading him as I am? The concern that I misread him previously would have been just as relevant then as it is now.
I mentioned that because I trust you for some players's reads over others. You've misread Iso in a bunch of games IIRC, and you've misread Az in Gatecrash. Also I wanted you to re-evaluate Az because of the doc claim rather than slam your head against a brick wall repeatedly.
Az: Can you answer my question?
I want to reread Juun but I'm fine with going with him since this game needs to pick up pacing, though I'd prefer to lynch Necarg.
Holy crap DCIII and Proph had an interaction! Neato. I don't remember this going anywhere, though. And it isn't telling about anything important. :/
Az: You keep forgetting to unvote. Also, do you think Necarg could be scum with Juuun with this post:
Quote from Necarg »
For the first time in a while, I agree with Juunn. Charm isn't posting like a VT would. He is instead posting like he has a role, and ,since he has said he isn't town PR, that means he is a good bet to be mafia.
Seems out of place for a scumbuddy to agree with another and then impale themselves on a Charm lynch.
Quote from Az »
No response to octo defense yet, but coming. It wasn't awful, but didn't dissuade me from the original points either.
Looking forward to it.
If you think Necarg and I are scum, why would I jump off of you AND Charm and then onto Necarg?
I want to lynch Huntzilla. The quickhammer at the end of Day 1 reeks of major bandwagoning (given that he was on all of the major wagons at the time, IIRC, and just shifted between them (TCM, me, Charm). His insta-naming of Necarg felt like he was trying to nap the benefit Naming Necarg got before anyone else did.
Town (No real order):
DCIII (Playing well, I can't really see much reason as to why he's scum, he's doing good work, especially today.)
Iso (Playing well as town, good player, no good reason to being scum.)
Wheat (Same as above, also I can't see his ability being scum.)
Jobie (Seems town, but pretty much only because I haven't seen a good reason to him being scum.)
Null (Most townie to least townie):
Seppel (Isn't playing badly, but a few small things make me somewhat uneasy.)
KA (Nothing really pointing either way, playing decent, but not making much impact.)
Proph (Nothing really going too much for or against, but I trust Iso (and other's) opinions)
Az (Somewhat un-CC'd doc, but day 1 still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.)
Scumread (There's only 1.)
Hunt (Read above posts)
1. How is DCIII doing "good work today" when all he's done is voted Jobie?
2. What are the things Seppel has been doing that make you feel uneasy?
3. If you're townreading players for "no good reason as to being scum" then why the null read on KA, who has "nothing pointing either way"? If there's nothing pointing either way, then there must be no good reason for him to be scum, right?
4. Why do you trust Iso's opinion on me when he hasn't presented a single reason as to why he thinks I'm scum?
There's these questions to Necarg that Necarg answered nicely.
DCIII: What do you make of this, if you think Jobie/Hunt are buddies?
Quote from Jobie »
@Proph: Something about the wagon feels off to me. I'm just having this weird dissonance. I like the idea of lynching Hunt, most of the players supporting it are on my town list, I don't like his claim, and his desire to be named early doesn't jive; but something feels... off. I can't put my finger on it.
If they're scumbuddies together then this line reads as pretty unusual play.
--
I need to reread this game, though I'd prefer to do it once Hunt has flipped.
We've gone from needing to reread Necarg to rereading the game. Anyone think this will happen?
I want to reread the game and I'll try to carve out time to do it today.
Leaning DCIII over Seppel in this exchange because I recall Seppel doing something similar to this in.. the endgame of Hobbit? I do remember there were absurdly large posts being thrown around. And I don't see scum claiming bulletproof like in the way DCIII did.
For those of you counting at home, we've reached 3 comments about rereading with 0 follow-through.
I think Azrael is town since he was like "I think the scum are laughing their heads off" which is a very townie indicator. Slight paranoia of him not dying but there are a bunch of high priority NK targets.
Also this massclaim list thing is starting to remind me of Majora's Mask a little as well.
"Leaning Seppel over DCIII" // "It's not a dichotomy" // No further explanation given.
Now we get into the realm of claiming. Proph claims and then has no opinion on KA's claim:
I speednamed because I was determined to get at least one name down, since I completely failed with the first one I did.
This is ridiculous reasoning.
Proph is scum.
I stand by my assertion. You can't read Proph and say "hey, this guy is giving me townie vibes; his play make sense; he truly looks like he's trying to solve the game."
For real.
Lynch this guy.
(He's V/LA for a week so don't expect him to respond.)
I'm not sure what you don't understand. His type of role is very unlikely to be made up. Therefore, there had to have been an investigation ability somewhere.
@Wheat - Effort late game isn't a town tell for Seppel - you were in Majora's Mask. I don't remember what game it was but I remember he and Voxxicus quote wall after quote walling with each other when he was scum and Vox was town. I'm sure he does it as town as well - it's an investment tell more than anything else. Paying attention is consistent or inconsistent for him as either alignment. I've seen him forget who his scum buddy was and I've seen him not know what was going on as Town, but that's almost always during the point of the game where he isn't invested. Like, it's not a tell for him that he didn't know Az's role couldn't protect Iso, for example. My point being, he's engaged now, he's paying attention now and I'm his top suspect and when I'm asking him about his read on KA, he was trying to discredit it by making it seem like I hadn't brought it up previously, which I had on the same page, and which he'd have known if he was actually solving.
He keeps trying to say that I had no reason to name Proph when I did even though it's obvious why I did it, none of my responses to that register to him - then look at how he reacts to others. Proph claims Vanilla and he just calls him boring. I call Seppel out about his lack of interest in Proph, and he then he asks Proph the question after the fact and declares Proph is scum - he's casing a bunch of people now to make it seem like he's solving, but if he was, that question wouldn't have been after the fact, he'd have cared about it rather than calling him boring. KA's approach makes no sense at all - he wasn't suspicious enough to counterclaim me despite our roles but then he named me Day two to protect from kills from me. Seppel cases KA in full, and this never occurs to him. I call it out to Seppel, and he says it's a good point but asks if I've brought it up, which I did. He's not actually interested in my answers or what I'm doing or in that point (about why people were naming) - he's trying to make that point stick against me - but he's acting like he's trying to solve the game by going through these cases - but there's no critical thinking about the cases themselves. It's optics. He didn't actually ever think that Necarg gave an investigative ability to Huntzilla - because Hunt would have said something before he died, he wouldn't have continued to suspect Necarg as he was dying. He's writing things to look like he's staying objective and putting in the effort to solve, but he's not actually thinking them through.
He said Proph is scum as a result of Proph's reasoning earlier, but he "might as well" case Proph tomorrow. If he thinks Proph is scum and he cased Necarg, KA, Jobie, and myself, then it wouldn't be a "might as well" - he prioritized town casing Necarg prior to casing Proph who he's said is scum.
None of it is natural.
Look at his reaction to my last post. He's just dismissing it and saying I'm preaching to nobody... I'm obviously talking to everyone else. But that's the thing, he didn't address any of the content in there about how his stances don't add up, he just hand waved them. That's the kind of post where, if he was Town, he'd be taking me to task for - instead, he's moving along.
Why would he defend both there... he's not really defending KA - he's just saying he likes him better than me and Proph. Also notice how, despite not liking me and despite liking KA better than me, he's never acknowledged that our roles are counters to each other. Re: Necarg - I know I've defended teammates that people were piling on before for the "would he really be so overt about sticking up for a scum buddy move" - and the whole "would scum really tell a buddy to claim Miller Day 3" is WIFOM and he's the one who has theorized how the miller might fit in somewhere - but regardless of the motive around both, the thing that's telling is that he's trying to give the appearance that he has an open mind to the game but his stances and conclusions and the way he's viewing the cases show that he's driving an agenda. He's talking for Necarg and speculating that Necarg gave out the ability to Hunt rather than just asking him despite the fact that makes zero sense based on how Hunt played. He's creating reasons for Necarg that Necarg is town, that's a give away.
History mafia. I was town and Voxx was SK.
You have the weakest possible reason to name people. Why not offer up your naming to people who could better use it? Or even falsely hint that you get something good when you name people (in an effort to soak a nightkill)? Nope, none of those things happened. You sniped names without thinking about the consequences. Just cop to it.
Quote where you've brought up KA's claim. Where's your wild push to lynch this counterclaim of yours? Extreme Tu Quoque going on here. Calling me scum for something he himself did as well.
Proph is scum. That's pretty much an established fact at this point. But I might as well hunt for his buddies in the meantime. You're certainly not going to put forth the effort to reveal your last teammate, are you?
I don't know about KA yet. Do you? Tell me, tell me.
You have the weakest possible reason to name people. Why not offer up your naming to people who could better use it? Or even falsely hint that you get something good when you name people (in an effort to soak a nightkill)? Nope, none of those things happened. You sniped names without thinking about the consequences. Just cop to it.
Quote where you've brought up KA's claim. Where's your wild push to lynch this counterclaim of yours? Extreme Tu Quoque going on here. Calling me scum for something he himself did as well.
Proph is scum. That's pretty much an established fact at this point. But I might as well hunt for his buddies in the meantime. You're certainly not going to put forth the effort to reveal your last teammate, are you?
I don't know about KA yet. Do you? Tell me, tell me.
That's not the game I'm thinking about, then.
"The weakest possible reason" is such a load, me being bulletproof is a great reason, and when I first named Hunt, I figured that people would notice that because I was first to name correctly. I figured people would realize that I had a reason and that it might lend to targets... but I also figured that I could just play like I normally do and THAT WOULD ALSO lend to targets, because it usually does. I outed myself because I thought Az was scum and was trying to draw out my role but it was better to catch scum there and I knew I'd be around another Day anyway. I named the second time to ensure I was protected again after the rush on names. Your alleging that I wouldn't want to do this if I was town is completely bogus, of course I would - and it also shows your inconsistency because you didn't care about why Proph or KA named until I pushed you on it.
What. There's no way KA wouldn't have had beef with my claim and the way he's presenting it now carries no suspicion of either Az or I but focuses on Necarg.
@Seppel - no I didn't get anything
And what to you mean where's my push to lynch him? I've said he's scum with you and Necarg. How much more clear could I be?
Your case above you say, "at this point I'm asking Proph questions and we get to the worst answer of the entire game," - the only reason you asked Proph that question was because I called you out for not being interested. He claimed vanilla, you told him he was boring. No follow up, no concern about the fact that he named as a vanilla... despite that's one of the bedrocks of the reason you think I'm scum for naming people as a bulletproof.
KA is scum - you do know this, it's the reason that you didn't think his reasoning for naming me, which makes less sense than any given, was suspicious after you cased him. And here's another reason people should realize you're full of it - because you're trying to make it look like I'm not I'm not taking stances on players when I've very clearly said who I think the scum team is and why - and you're sweeping those reasons under the table.
Seppels cases are good, and he's pointing to proph dc jobie and that makes sense
But seppels replies to dc are not good at all
On the other hand, dc is making good points about seppel, but it hinges on a scum team that doesn't make sense. All he has on ka is seppel and that he didn't re cc. But neither of those really does anything to make ka scum. And necarg is not much better. Plus, it feels like bad play to clear both buddies. Not to mention if ka and necarg were scum under seppel, things would fall apart quick.
I think that Iso would have figured out seppel. I can't shake that feeling, now that I have it in my head. KA is also undoubtedly town despite the misplays.
KA town points to dc scum. Dc scum means jobie scum. Proph is scum in a vacuum and seppel also tied him to dc and jobie well.
I gotta choose the rock or the hard place. The hard place makes sense to me.
I wrote this very slowly during breaks and lunch on my phone so i hope it makes sense
That's the thing though! Its such a bad claim. Name a scum team with necarg that both makes sense and who would tell him to claim miller while theres a tracker but no confirmed cop.
KA wouldn't think of it. Seppel would just find a better claim. You and DC would dismiss it as stupid. Proph too, probably, if he even thought to do so.
Necarg scum fits no group and that's why he's town. If you have a scum team that fits necarg and makes sense, please tell me because I don't see one.
I will read the iso on seppel posts this evening. If someone links them i will be especially happy, otherwise I'll search them myself.
Sorry for the delay, a bit of work got me carried away.
Me when reading the posts this game: "The hell is a miller?"
2 min. or reading later: "Ok, so I'm a miller. Now I know what I can call myself."
3 min. or reading later: "Well crap."
So, I didn't know of the miller role before this, and decided that today would be the best day to say it since,
1) It wasn't relevant before today, and
2) We were doing a massclaim today.
I'm the town juvenile, btw.
So, I don't want to get into the Seppel v. DCII fight right now, but I'll post my thoughts:
1. I don't think it's a town v. town fight
2. They probs aren't buddies
3. I have a slightly greater townread on Sep then DC3.
So, DC thinks I am in a scumteam with... KA? I don't get that logic. If you wanted to make up Seppel's scumbuddies, then you could've easily tried harder than that.
I've managed to read all of the text walls, and I have... had my view on Seppel slightly improve.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My thoughts are with the friends and family of the Orlando Shooting victims and with the rest of the LGBTQA+ community.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
@Seppel: What I meant was, during one of the cases you said "I think I found the cop shot" which implied it was gifted from YuLy (who is necarg) to Huntz via Naming. But necarg didn't claim that he gave away a cop shot.
@Seppel: What I meant was, during one of the cases you said "I think I found the cop shot" which implied it was gifted from YuLy (who is necarg) to Huntz via Naming. But necarg didn't claim that he gave away a cop shot.
My thoughts are with the friends and family of the Orlando Shooting victims and with the rest of the LGBTQA+ community.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
Eh. There's no reason to hide it any more. We've got all we can get.
I got the cop ability from Iso by naming him.
N2: DCIII is Mafia.
N3: Prophylaxis is Mafia.
Back during D1, I still had to find out if Iso was mafia, so the best way to see if he was town was to fakeclaim the ability.
My philosophy for copping people is that you don't cop your scum reads, and you don't cop your town reads. You cop your reads that you can't read. So I copped the awkward newbie Febbre.
On D2, he was riding me yesterday by asking me what my results were. I knew that outing the guilty was the worst thing I could do at that point, since DCIII is smart enough to smell a cop shot, so I had to make up some garbage that I trusted Az for his ability, even though there really was no confirmation of it. I had to look like a completely disinterested player otherwise, and Iso almost made me spill the beans. I went along with the Hunt wagon like a bored vanilla who didn't care about the results of the lynch.
Then I copped Proph, since there were a lot of mixed signals in the thread about him.
The beginning of D3 had me squealing, and I knew I could go on the attack freely without worry of getting lynched. Proph was an easy target, so I decided to give a crack at DCIII first. Today has really just been trying to find who the third partner is, hitting DCIII & Proph with everything I can get.
Eh. There's no reason to hide it any more. We've got all we can get.
I got the cop ability from Iso by naming him.
N2: DCIII is Mafia.
N3: Prophylaxis is Mafia.
Back during D1, I still had to find out if Iso was mafia, so the best way to see if he was town was to fakeclaim the ability.
My philosophy for copping people is that you don't cop your scum reads, and you don't cop your town reads. You cop your reads that you can't read. So I copped the awkward newbie Febbre.
On D2, he was riding me yesterday by asking me what my results were. I knew that outing the guilty was the worst thing I could do at that point, since DCIII is smart enough to smell a cop shot, so I had to make up some garbage that I trusted Az for his ability, even though there really was no confirmation of it. I had to look like a completely disinterested player otherwise, and Iso almost made me spill the beans. I went along with the Hunt wagon like a bored vanilla who didn't care about the results of the lynch.
Then I copped Proph, since there were a lot of mixed signals in the thread about him.
The beginning of D3 had me squealing, and I knew I could go on the attack freely without worry of getting lynched. Proph was an easy target, so I decided to give a crack at DCIII first. Today has really just been trying to find who the third partner is, hitting DCIII & Proph with everything I can get.
2. Thanks to whoever gave me that note last night. Whoever you are, you're auto-town if you claim that you gave it to me.
3. I was wrong about Charm, and that made me tunnel on Azrael. Azrael is town, and my vote is in his hands. (Also Iso's hands, but I have more faith in Azrael's hands.)
Vote Huntzilla.
This was his first post of the Day. He's the fourth vote on Huntzilla, no mention of me whatsoever. He doesn't have to say he's made a cop shot on me in order to start expressing doubt if he starts expressing doubt and then flips, people know he was the cop and look at his reads. He wouldn't just stay silent.
Yaaaay no more fakenames! No more typing like an idiot!
I agree that the end of the day makes Hunt look bad, but Az is still probably a better lynch. I do not believe the doc claim, especially with the bodyguard effect tacked on. And he's been leaning way too heavily on the "I'm experienced and here's how to play Mafia" shtick. vote Azrael
Uhh, Charm confirmed Azrael's ability.
This is where he about faced on Azrael because of Charm's ability, when the previous Day he was arguing with Charm WHO HE THOUGHT WAS SCUM that Azrael's ability could easily be on scum. Now he's seen the ability and Azrael is Town. No, he just decided that the Az angle was no longer fruitful.
@DCIII- What does being vanilla have to do with wanting to name the last people? Are you suggesting that only power roles name people? That seems a little fishy to me
His response also smears you a little bit.
Here's Proph's response to me when I'm talking about how Hunt dodged my question and then here's Seppel's response below.
Hunt did all that smear back when he was a newbie. Is he still a newbie now? Let's lynch him and find out!
He's not "going along" with the Hunt wagon. He's pushing it along. And he's agreeing with Proph who he's going into the Night going to cop because he finds him so suspicious (and Proph was Oct who Seppel had an open favorable read on all game).
Necarg it's really pointless to say that you trust Iso the most. He's confirmed town. Of course you can trust him. Who can you trust the most besides Iso?
Again, Seppel, given the way my ability works, I feel like you know what's going on. If the memos prove useful to you in some way, do let me know. On that note, who do YOU trust the most right now, other than Iso?
Prior to Charm's flip, it was all equally Oct/Iso/Wheat/Jan/Hunt. Now it's Iso/Azrael and I need to reread but I don't want to until Day 3.
If we massclaim then I might be persuaded to read today.
Here he's getting some distancing in with Necarg and, hey, Iso knows Seppel is the cop and doesn't trust what he's doing - and Iso is dead (and earlier Seppel tried to pin Iso's death on me for suspecting me back in post #109 when that read wasn't active!
This one is the most telling though - it's where I switch to the Hunt wagon:
Necarg it's really pointless to say that you trust Iso the most. He's confirmed town. Of course you can trust him. Who can you trust the most besides Iso?
Don't like this post - Necarg was responding to Proph's question specifically which is why he brought Iso up - he'd previously given reads. Feels selective from Seppel, he's ignoring the context.
----
Hunt still hasn't respond to my question and said my question seemed fishy to him but had no follow up after. He's brushing by that interaction when there should be no reason to. He shouldn't have anything to hide and if he thought my question was fishy he'd want to follow up on it. I think his switch on Seppel is an attempt at distancing. Jobie also went from being really active Today to going quiet after I cased him.
Feeling really good about Hunt/Jobie/Seppel.
Unvote: Vote: Huntzilla
I join the Hunt wagon and here's Seppel's next post:
He had you, Wheat, or Jobie to choose from and he chose not to answer the question.
He's encouraging me to stay on the wagon. You don't do that to someone who you know is scum at that point. You just don't. You know that I'm scum, you see me move to the Hunt wagon, you keep quiet and say something that validates me for joining the Hunt wagon. Why? Because you know I'm Town and you want to validate my joining the wagon. Then he also said this at the end of the Day.
You have a cop shot on me, you're going into the night thinking you're going to cop Proph, and you're introducing a new suspect at that point while going along with a lynch? No, it's distancing from KA because he hammered and pretended that it was L-1.
Those aren't all of his posts, but he never mentioned any suspicion of me whatsoever Yesterday, he never mentioned any suspicion of Proph whatsoever Yesterday, he interacted with both of us to ENCOURAGE us when we were thinking negatively about Hunt.
Seppel, KA and Necarg are the scum team. What would you do if you were Seppel and you were paired with those two this game? You'd try to push through lynches quickly and then come up with something crazy. When I explained why I thought they were the scum team earlier, Seppel's response was, "okay, explain how Proph is Town" not why they weren't, and then as people start to look concerned with what he's doing, he pulls out the cop. I wouldn't be surprised if Iso actually gave him a cop and he's been sitting on it which is why Necarg claimed miller. Seppel asked "why would scum claim Miller on Day 3" - if he got a cop shot and knew it was in the game.
Seppel is scum for all of the above and all of the prior. KA is scum because his role is a counter to mine, he didn't counter when it happened. If you want to believe that was misguided town then why did he name me to protect himself from me when he hadn't countered me or expressed ANY concern with me? I bet the reason he countered is because Seppel was going to pull this cop stunt, either way, he's scum. Necarg is scum because Seppel defended him and spoke for him when speculating about his cop ability and set all of that up and he'd have just let people run with suspicion of Necarg otherwise.
It's all there, all you have to do is wake up and see it - Seppel, KA, Necarg scum team. Lynch them and we win. If you don't see it finaly now, I'm going to cry.
This was his first post of the Day. He's the fourth vote on Huntzilla, no mention of me whatsoever. He doesn't have to say he's made a cop shot on me in order to start expressing doubt if he starts expressing doubt and then flips, people know he was the cop and look at his reads. He wouldn't just stay silent.
Hell yes I did. With other power roles claimed, I was under no threat of dying as long as I just went along with things.
See, unlike you, I understand the scum's perceived value of mortality.
This is where he about faced on Azrael because of Charm's ability, when the previous Day he was arguing with Charm WHO HE THOUGHT WAS SCUM that Azrael's ability could easily be on scum. Now he's seen the ability and Azrael is Town. No, he just decided that the Az angle was no longer fruitful.[/quote]No, I got a guilty on you and that can only mean that Az is town.
Hunt did all that smear back when he was a newbie. Is he still a newbie now? Let's lynch him and find out!
He's not "going along" with the Hunt wagon. He's pushing it along. And he's agreeing with Proph who he's going into the Night going to cop because he finds him so suspicious (and Proph was Oct who Seppel had an open favorable read on all game).
He had you, Wheat, or Jobie to choose from and he chose not to answer the question.
He's encouraging me to stay on the wagon. You don't do that to someone who you know is scum at that point. You just don't. You know that I'm scum, you see me move to the Hunt wagon, you keep quiet and say something that validates me for joining the Hunt wagon. Why? Because you know I'm Town and you want to validate my joining the wagon.
Like you said, there were already 4 votes on the Hunt wagon. Your late hop is meaningless. So I made that comment and really wanted you to respond, but you didn't.
You have a cop shot on me, you're going into the night thinking you're going to cop Proph, and you're introducing a new suspect at that point while going along with a lynch? No, it's distancing from KA because he hammered and pretended that it was L-1.
Those aren't all of his posts, but he never mentioned any suspicion of me whatsoever Yesterday, he never mentioned any suspicion of Proph whatsoever Yesterday, he interacted with both of us to ENCOURAGE us when we were thinking negatively about Hunt.
I copped Proph Night 2, how could I express suspicion on him the day prior?
I wouldn't be surprised if Iso actually gave him a cop and he's been sitting on it which is why Necarg claimed miller. Seppel asked "why would scum claim Miller on Day 3" - if he got a cop shot and knew it was in the game.
Actually, I'd be thoroughly impressed if Necarg is scum that flipped his ability from a Lawyer shot to a Miller shot.
Seppel is scum for all of the above and all of the prior. KA is scum because his role is a counter to mine, he didn't counter when it happened. If you want to believe that was misguided town then why did he name me to protect himself from me when he hadn't countered me or expressed ANY concern with me? I bet the reason he countered is because Seppel was going to pull this cop stunt, either way, he's scum. Necarg is scum because Seppel defended him and spoke for him when speculating about his cop ability and set all of that up and he'd have just let people run with suspicion of Necarg otherwise.
You really are reaching here.
Ooh but I think I've figured out your scumtell. I was just about to reveal it... but I should save it for another game when I need to pull it out.
You don't go along with a mislynch that you're confident is a mislynch if you're a cop. You certainly don't encourage players you suspect on their wagon. That takes you one step closer to losing and even if you're successful in your targets, all you have to do is be wrong once after that. You at least put some suspicion of your suspects into the thread. What if you were vigged? That's a contingency you'd have considered, especially if you believed Az at that point. Your posts weren't "disinterested Town" they were encouraging other players to lynch Hunt, which you knew was a bad lynch.
Plain and simple you're trying to sell this to win now.
D1 you talked about how Charm was scum all Day but never voted him until right when it looked like the wagon had lost momentum.
D2 you pushed a Hunt lynch along that you knew was no good.
When Proph claimed vanilla Today, your only reaction was to call him "boring," until I pressed you for your inconsistency that's not the response of someone who has gotten a scum read on someone.
Those aren't the behaviors of a Town cop. Even if you're trying to hide, you leave breadcrumbs so that if something happens to you people will know your targets. It's all after the fact after he got the Hunt lynch through. There's zero reason not to try to stop that wagon even if you want another target, Seppel wouldn't have been a priority kill regardless of his stances around the Hunt wagon because of his earlier play and he knows that.
Like, seriously, actually read his play against his motivations and wake up. Town don't push bad wagons along because they're a PR, especially when they have a guilty result.
You don't go along with a mislynch that you're confident is a mislynch if you're a cop. You certainly don't encourage players you suspect on their wagon. That takes you one step closer to losing and even if you're successful in your targets, all you have to do is be wrong once after that. You at least put some suspicion of your suspects into the thread. What if you were vigged? That's a contingency you'd have considered, especially if you believed Az at that point. Your posts weren't "disinterested Town" they were encouraging other players to lynch Hunt, which you knew was a bad lynch.
Plain and simple you're trying to sell this to win now.
D1 you talked about how Charm was scum all Day but never voted him until right when it looked like the wagon had lost momentum.
D2 you pushed a Hunt lynch along that you knew was no good.
When Proph claimed vanilla Today, your only reaction was to call him "boring," until I pressed you for your inconsistency that's not the response of someone who has gotten a scum read on someone.
Those aren't the behaviors of a Town cop. Even if you're trying to hide, you leave breadcrumbs so that if something happens to you people will know your targets. It's all after the fact after he got the Hunt lynch through. There's zero reason not to try to stop that wagon even if you want another target, Seppel wouldn't have been a priority kill regardless of his stances around the Hunt wagon because of his earlier play and he knows that.
Like, seriously, actually read his play against his motivations and wake up. Town don't push bad wagons along because they're a PR, especially when they have a guilty result.
You're no longer engaging yourself in what I'm saying. You're ignoring things you can't counter, and instead retorting with the same old lines. So I'm done with this conversation.
I'll fix it.
RVS WOO
You're vanilla. What benefit would you get from naming people?
Why did you try to name OctopusToes/Proph?
Jobiepost.
So you're familiar with Charm's posts?
Voting based on playsyle? :/ Are you just throwing votes out at this point?
Huh. I remember Jobie copping to being dumb later on.
I like posts like this.
There's a lot more to this post than what DCIII quoted. Let's comb through it.
...actually, the only thing that stands out to me is this:
WHYYYYYYYYYYYY
You have no abilities when you name people! You're vanilla! Why do you care about this?
I feel like I'm the only vanilla who actually thought critically about using our namings sparingly.
I hate it when people say "Seppel is Seppel." It used to be a universal scumtell. :/
This is such a Jobiepost. It provides no information on Jobie's alignment, nor any of the players he talks to.
NOW here's a useful post. Oct is Proph, and there's literally no suspicion on Proph rigt now. In fact, at one point, I remembering defending Proph.
Also there's proof that I wasn't paying attention to the names of anyone. I'm also going to use this as a defense against someone suggesting a scumteam of me with Jobie or Proph.
Ughh Jobie you're such a crafty fellow. Can you really be scum with Proph?
Ahh geez, Jobie Jobie Jobie... that Oct/Proph wagon lasted so shortly...
Uh huh. And you didn't have an issue with the DCIII/Azrael counterclaim?
Fastest stall I've seen. :eyeroll:
Ha! Iso called him out on it!
Take out Az from that lineup, and Az is correct. Jobie really hasn't provided much substance against the people he's voted. Then again, it's Day 1, and Jobie despises Day 1.
Ugh.
Okay, we're halfway done here.
Day 1:
Day 2:
I really don't see what you're getting at here.
Where's the substance? Where's the passion?
At least someone answered me.
HERE COMES THE VENN DIAGRAM
Are you jerking me around?
Is this one of those double-bluffs, wher eyou used a venn diagram when you were scum, then used it again thinking that you couldn't use the same tactic twice?
The Venn Diagram didn't tell you anything anyway. Don't believe me? This is your next post:
Translation: WHO KNOWS
Proph followed up, asking why 4 of 5 on the wagon blah blah
This post is fine except it has that response to proph which is basically WHO KNOWS
Will Proph follow up?
Now we get to the post where Jobie responds to DCIII. There's a lot more to this post than was quoted.
...and it's rather uninteresting. Just more cops and "I didn't mean it that way" and corrections to DCIII.
This is a good point. Unfortunately to goes nowhere, as the day ends.
How can you reach the breaking point if you've said nothing about me prior to now?
Thanks, but there were people easier than you.
...even though you opened with a vote on me and you said earlier I need to be lynched if I'm alive in lylo?
Anyway, we're up to present-day now, so I'm going to call it here: I don't know. There's a lot of questionable behavior, but that's why I'm questioning him.
Jobie, help me help you. Answer the questions bro.
I can answer the collective questions about me naming Oct and caring so much about naming:
It's three parts:
1) I assumed this game would be giving out abilities like candy for correctly naming people. So part of the frustration was about me being VT and wanting to get names.
2) I hadn't thought of the possibility of someone gaining abilities by correctly naming people, so I didn't see a drawback to naming people with no benefit to me.
3) I was a kid with a new toy and wanted to play with it.
I'll get to the rest of the post when I get home.
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Here's why I don't like DCpost.
edit: actually i turned out ambivalent about this post
I'm almost putting the cart before the horse on how bad that sounds.
This is what happened.
This is the one part I like about DC's response.
when does seppel ever pay attention except in retrospect? You know Seppel about as well if not better than I.
I take it back, I also like this part too.
But the parts don't really sum together. Seppel/KA/necarg just doesn't make sense as a scumteam; why would seppel make such an effort to try to clear BOTH his buddies right now? Particularly when neither is very fondly looked upon?
Plus, coming up with this scumteam reeks of omgus which is what I initially focused on.
Those questions I just asked aren't rhetorical, btw; I like the parts upon rereading but I just don't see the sum yet. Convince me.
I do not want to lynch Seppel right now. Possibly even if I decided he's scum.
DC keeps making good points but Seppel is trying really hard and I badly want him to be town because he never tries anymore and I *like* when he tries goddammit.
---
Jobie's response is really good. He's also Jobie, so as much as I want to take him off the table I don't think it's prudent given that he fooled us all last game.
curse, you ironical
So at this time I thought Sep was Az. I was basing my read on him on the fact that "Sep is a well respected analyst, who if put behind a mask may be viewed as scummy".
I didn't like Jan/Iso's read post in 109 because it seemed like a "I want to seem like I'm being helpful, but I'm not actually" post.
You understand how I mean it there, right?
Yeah, that wasn't my shining moment here.
Is it really a counterclaim? Az gave out a bodyguard shot, DC3 becomes bulletproof when correctly naming, KA became unkillable by players he's named. Az is the only one with a drawback it's KA v DC3 that makes me a little iffy at this point, but not to the same degree Necarg's odd claim makes me nervous.
It seemed like Day 1 was bogged down more by trying to name everyone than actually trying to play the game.
I'm bored.
It's a way for me to try to visualize my notes. I started tracking voting tendencies towards the end of my time at MTGS and it started to help my Win%. Just because I used it as scum in our last game, doesn't mean it's a scum tell. It just means I've been gone a while and decided to try something new last game, regardless of my alignment.
Okay. "WHO KNOWS" is is a little strong. KA's vote on the Charm lynch was bad. Really. Really. Bad.
You've never had one of those situations where you've got a pile of tells on one player, but you can't fight the feeling that they're town? That's what I was getting.
Entering the day, this was my train of thought: Seppel ITT
Meta's are made to be broken. Also, thanks to the mass claim, I have stronger feelings than lynching you.
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i just had a dog take a ***** and a wizz in my room
Lastly, the response to "WHO KNOWS" was good.
I might as well case Proph tomorrow.
(Spoilers: I'm not going to case Wheat or Az.)
that's textbook misguided town
He keeps trying to say that I had no reason to name Proph when I did even though it's obvious why I did it, none of my responses to that register to him - then look at how he reacts to others. Proph claims Vanilla and he just calls him boring. I call Seppel out about his lack of interest in Proph, and he then he asks Proph the question after the fact and declares Proph is scum - he's casing a bunch of people now to make it seem like he's solving, but if he was, that question wouldn't have been after the fact, he'd have cared about it rather than calling him boring. KA's approach makes no sense at all - he wasn't suspicious enough to counterclaim me despite our roles but then he named me Day two to protect from kills from me. Seppel cases KA in full, and this never occurs to him. I call it out to Seppel, and he says it's a good point but asks if I've brought it up, which I did. He's not actually interested in my answers or what I'm doing or in that point (about why people were naming) - he's trying to make that point stick against me - but he's acting like he's trying to solve the game by going through these cases - but there's no critical thinking about the cases themselves. It's optics. He didn't actually ever think that Necarg gave an investigative ability to Huntzilla - because Hunt would have said something before he died, he wouldn't have continued to suspect Necarg as he was dying. He's writing things to look like he's staying objective and putting in the effort to solve, but he's not actually thinking them through.
He said Proph is scum as a result of Proph's reasoning earlier, but he "might as well" case Proph tomorrow. If he thinks Proph is scum and he cased Necarg, KA, Jobie, and myself, then it wouldn't be a "might as well" - he prioritized town casing Necarg prior to casing Proph who he's said is scum.
None of it is natural.
Look at his reaction to my last post. He's just dismissing it and saying I'm preaching to nobody... I'm obviously talking to everyone else. But that's the thing, he didn't address any of the content in there about how his stances don't add up, he just hand waved them. That's the kind of post where, if he was Town, he'd be taking me to task for - instead, he's moving along.
Why would he defend both there... he's not really defending KA - he's just saying he likes him better than me and Proph. Also notice how, despite not liking me and despite liking KA better than me, he's never acknowledged that our roles are counters to each other. Re: Necarg - I know I've defended teammates that people were piling on before for the "would he really be so overt about sticking up for a scum buddy move" - and the whole "would scum really tell a buddy to claim Miller Day 3" is WIFOM and he's the one who has theorized how the miller might fit in somewhere - but regardless of the motive around both, the thing that's telling is that he's trying to give the appearance that he has an open mind to the game but his stances and conclusions and the way he's viewing the cases show that he's driving an agenda. He's talking for Necarg and speculating that Necarg gave out the ability to Hunt rather than just asking him despite the fact that makes zero sense based on how Hunt played. He's creating reasons for Necarg that Necarg is town, that's a give away.
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Stupid.
"I did it for reactions!" Hey that excuse works for newbies like Necarg. Meh.
Did you forget that you had just voted him?
This is fine. Still feels like RVS. I remember liking it back in the day.
Doesn't feel like a Proph post.
Hey DCIII check out the buddying to Wheat.
This was fine until I saw the "RIGHT NOW" qualifier near the top of the post. Also "BEST LYNCH" instead of "he's scum."
Check out this conversation:
This conversation died in the water. Jobie never responded, Proph never followed up.
Those are the things to look for when trying to find scumpairs.
Spoilers: I was trying to do my best Azrael impression at the time, which did, in fact, require me to not check the thread as frequently as I normally do.
As for the content of this post, there's not much to say. The content is fine. It just doesn't feel Prophy.
It's possible that Proph is doing this on purpose to not be namable, but since he claimed vanilla, I don't think it's very important.
Really, proph?
So true.
They were good reasons.
This looks like a post I'd make.
Proph engages Necarg in an interesting way. The Charm wagon was dying at this point, I believe.
His read post is mostly accurate.
However, note that he has Febbre/DCIII as "straying from the point" yet he's NEVER SAID ANYTHING to Febbre or about Febbre at all.
Proph disappears for a while, then comes back with this:
Holy ***** he used "BEST LYNCH" again.
Wait a minute, Dec is still town? How is that possible? Here's Proph's quotes on Dec/Jobie:
"Dec/March... If I was to quote, every post That I disagree with of both of you, I'd be able to right a 7 part novel..."
"i find it difficult to believe that Septemicia_Itis and Dec are scum together, The way that Dec defended Sept suggests to me that they Aren't scumbuddehs."
And then suddenly Dec/Jobie is in the town pile?
...also that wasn't SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT.
Just a post. Nothing notable.
"Oh *COUGH COUGH* DCIII please claim *COUGH COUGH*
Proph dodged my question here about how he uses a colored T/S list. And he never procured his colored list.
Here's Dec's 205: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/617101-true-name-mafia-day-3-clean-dealer?comment=205
I talked about it in my Jobie read. It's the one where I questioned why Jobie wanted to name people, which is a hell of a lot better than Proph's reason but still not great.
I don't see how that's a golden post at all. It's mostly boring.
Oh sweet, Iso asked about it:
Everything's fine. I just don't buy the reasoning for Dec/Jobie's towniness. That post is a pile of meh. And then there's the reasoning behind naming that I already mentioned.
As a side note, I checked my 131, and I didn't realize that quote wall was so big. No wonder I was found out.
"Don't lynch that townie, lynch this one! Also, let's burn our deadline extension request." Okay, that's conflating it a bit. It's just hard to see Proph taking himself seriously.
Then Proph goes on to question Necarg and answer Iso's followup questions. Boring. Let's get to the good parts!
Here's where Az calls out Proph. It's a good post. Az saw some of the same stuff I did:
I don't like the fact that he's not offering his suggestion on who to lynch and instead saying that "we really need to decide on a lynch."
Also, we don't get a Necarg case, I don't think.
Then, proph asks Wheat how his reads changed, particularly his read on Proph. I'm not quoting it because it's quotefailed, but here's the response to Wheat:
Holy crap DCIII and Proph had an interaction! Neato. I don't remember this going anywhere, though. And it isn't telling about anything important. :/
Nothing useful here.
Scum gonna speedname.
So we're onto Day 2 and Proph has now become Proph. Pot/Kettle.
There's these questions to Necarg that Necarg answered nicely.
Wait a sec...
Like clockwork.
Proph goes on to ask some questions, for about 6 posts straight, blah blah...
We've gone from needing to reread Necarg to rereading the game. Anyone think this will happen?
Yeah, I didn't think so either.
Blah blah, more questions, then we get to Day 3:
For those of you counting at home, we've reached 3 comments about rereading with 0 follow-through.
"Leaning Seppel over DCIII" // "It's not a dichotomy" // No further explanation given.
Now we get into the realm of claiming. Proph claims and then has no opinion on KA's claim:
Almost everyone expresses an opinion about this reveal. Proph, however, does not.
At this point I'm asking Proph questions, and then we get to the worst answer of the entire game:
I stand by my assertion. You can't read Proph and say "hey, this guy is giving me townie vibes; his play make sense; he truly looks like he's trying to solve the game."
For real.
Lynch this guy.
(He's V/LA for a week so don't expect him to respond.)
You have the weakest possible reason to name people. Why not offer up your naming to people who could better use it? Or even falsely hint that you get something good when you name people (in an effort to soak a nightkill)? Nope, none of those things happened. You sniped names without thinking about the consequences. Just cop to it.
Quote where you've brought up KA's claim. Where's your wild push to lynch this counterclaim of yours? Extreme Tu Quoque going on here. Calling me scum for something he himself did as well.
Proph is scum. That's pretty much an established fact at this point. But I might as well hunt for his buddies in the meantime. You're certainly not going to put forth the effort to reveal your last teammate, are you?
I don't know about KA yet. Do you? Tell me, tell me.
That's not the game I'm thinking about, then.
"The weakest possible reason" is such a load, me being bulletproof is a great reason, and when I first named Hunt, I figured that people would notice that because I was first to name correctly. I figured people would realize that I had a reason and that it might lend to targets... but I also figured that I could just play like I normally do and THAT WOULD ALSO lend to targets, because it usually does. I outed myself because I thought Az was scum and was trying to draw out my role but it was better to catch scum there and I knew I'd be around another Day anyway. I named the second time to ensure I was protected again after the rush on names. Your alleging that I wouldn't want to do this if I was town is completely bogus, of course I would - and it also shows your inconsistency because you didn't care about why Proph or KA named until I pushed you on it.
And what to you mean where's my push to lynch him? I've said he's scum with you and Necarg. How much more clear could I be?
Your case above you say, "at this point I'm asking Proph questions and we get to the worst answer of the entire game," - the only reason you asked Proph that question was because I called you out for not being interested. He claimed vanilla, you told him he was boring. No follow up, no concern about the fact that he named as a vanilla... despite that's one of the bedrocks of the reason you think I'm scum for naming people as a bulletproof.
KA is scum - you do know this, it's the reason that you didn't think his reasoning for naming me, which makes less sense than any given, was suspicious after you cased him. And here's another reason people should realize you're full of it - because you're trying to make it look like I'm not I'm not taking stances on players when I've very clearly said who I think the scum team is and why - and you're sweeping those reasons under the table.
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Spoilers: You can't.
Seppels cases are good, and he's pointing to proph dc jobie and that makes sense
But seppels replies to dc are not good at all
On the other hand, dc is making good points about seppel, but it hinges on a scum team that doesn't make sense. All he has on ka is seppel and that he didn't re cc. But neither of those really does anything to make ka scum. And necarg is not much better. Plus, it feels like bad play to clear both buddies. Not to mention if ka and necarg were scum under seppel, things would fall apart quick.
I think that Iso would have figured out seppel. I can't shake that feeling, now that I have it in my head. KA is also undoubtedly town despite the misplays.
KA town points to dc scum. Dc scum means jobie scum. Proph is scum in a vacuum and seppel also tied him to dc and jobie well.
I gotta choose the rock or the hard place. The hard place makes sense to me.
I wrote this very slowly during breaks and lunch on my phone so i hope it makes sense
I'm going to continue harping on this. Necarg isn't super townie in anyone's eyes and his claim doesn't make sense with the setup information.
@Mod: Can we get a prod on Necarg? It's been 3 days since he last posted.
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This is an awfully scummy post.
I'm going to need a full reread to get my head on straight. My reads have changed too many times.
KA wouldn't think of it. Seppel would just find a better claim. You and DC would dismiss it as stupid. Proph too, probably, if he even thought to do so.
Necarg scum fits no group and that's why he's town. If you have a scum team that fits necarg and makes sense, please tell me because I don't see one.
I will read the iso on seppel posts this evening. If someone links them i will be especially happy, otherwise I'll search them myself.
Me when reading the posts this game: "The hell is a miller?"
2 min. or reading later: "Ok, so I'm a miller. Now I know what I can call myself."
3 min. or reading later: "Well crap."
So, I didn't know of the miller role before this, and decided that today would be the best day to say it since,
1) It wasn't relevant before today, and
2) We were doing a massclaim today.
I'm the town juvenile, btw.
So, I don't want to get into the Seppel v. DCII fight right now, but I'll post my thoughts:
1. I don't think it's a town v. town fight
2. They probs aren't buddies
3. I have a slightly greater townread on Sep then DC3.
So, DC thinks I am in a scumteam with... KA? I don't get that logic. If you wanted to make up Seppel's scumbuddies, then you could've easily tried harder than that.
I've managed to read all of the text walls, and I have... had my view on Seppel slightly improve.
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@Seppel: What I meant was, during one of the cases you said "I think I found the cop shot" which implied it was gifted from YuLy (who is necarg) to Huntz via Naming. But necarg didn't claim that he gave away a cop shot.
what did the note from iso say
actual post looking at super mafia bros interactions coming shortly
i have three posts in a row
i can feel the purity
but uhhhhh
what i can't feel is iso grilling seppel. all he asked was "who do you think is most town besides me"
so seppel, please link where he grilled you
and seppel stole my glory of three posts in a row too
so i don't even feel the purity anymore
what the **** do you mean the scum have it
who gave it to them then?
1 sec
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I got the cop ability from Iso by naming him.
N2: DCIII is Mafia.
N3: Prophylaxis is Mafia.
Back during D1, I still had to find out if Iso was mafia, so the best way to see if he was town was to fakeclaim the ability.
My philosophy for copping people is that you don't cop your scum reads, and you don't cop your town reads. You cop your reads that you can't read. So I copped the awkward newbie Febbre.
On D2, he was riding me yesterday by asking me what my results were. I knew that outing the guilty was the worst thing I could do at that point, since DCIII is smart enough to smell a cop shot, so I had to make up some garbage that I trusted Az for his ability, even though there really was no confirmation of it. I had to look like a completely disinterested player otherwise, and Iso almost made me spill the beans. I went along with the Hunt wagon like a bored vanilla who didn't care about the results of the lynch.
Then I copped Proph, since there were a lot of mixed signals in the thread about him.
The beginning of D3 had me squealing, and I knew I could go on the attack freely without worry of getting lynched. Proph was an easy target, so I decided to give a crack at DCIII first. Today has really just been trying to find who the third partner is, hitting DCIII & Proph with everything I can get.
Iso sent me the message that Decerebrate was Jobie.
There's no name for the new ability, it's just 'choose a person, learn their alignment'
i left my room open and unattended for 30 seconds
the dog was on another floor of the house
i come back and it's left another piss puddle
i will ******* shoot this dog.
^Lynch this scum. Lynch him!
Here's a bulk of his yesterday:
This was his first post of the Day. He's the fourth vote on Huntzilla, no mention of me whatsoever. He doesn't have to say he's made a cop shot on me in order to start expressing doubt if he starts expressing doubt and then flips, people know he was the cop and look at his reads. He wouldn't just stay silent.
This is where he about faced on Azrael because of Charm's ability, when the previous Day he was arguing with Charm WHO HE THOUGHT WAS SCUM that Azrael's ability could easily be on scum. Now he's seen the ability and Azrael is Town. No, he just decided that the Az angle was no longer fruitful.
Here's Proph's response to me when I'm talking about how Hunt dodged my question and then here's Seppel's response below.
He's not "going along" with the Hunt wagon. He's pushing it along. And he's agreeing with Proph who he's going into the Night going to cop because he finds him so suspicious (and Proph was Oct who Seppel had an open favorable read on all game).
Here he's getting some distancing in with Necarg and, hey, Iso knows Seppel is the cop and doesn't trust what he's doing - and Iso is dead (and earlier Seppel tried to pin Iso's death on me for suspecting me back in post #109 when that read wasn't active!
This one is the most telling though - it's where I switch to the Hunt wagon:
I join the Hunt wagon and here's Seppel's next post:
He's encouraging me to stay on the wagon. You don't do that to someone who you know is scum at that point. You just don't. You know that I'm scum, you see me move to the Hunt wagon, you keep quiet and say something that validates me for joining the Hunt wagon. Why? Because you know I'm Town and you want to validate my joining the wagon. Then he also said this at the end of the Day.
You have a cop shot on me, you're going into the night thinking you're going to cop Proph, and you're introducing a new suspect at that point while going along with a lynch? No, it's distancing from KA because he hammered and pretended that it was L-1.
Those aren't all of his posts, but he never mentioned any suspicion of me whatsoever Yesterday, he never mentioned any suspicion of Proph whatsoever Yesterday, he interacted with both of us to ENCOURAGE us when we were thinking negatively about Hunt.
Seppel, KA and Necarg are the scum team. What would you do if you were Seppel and you were paired with those two this game? You'd try to push through lynches quickly and then come up with something crazy. When I explained why I thought they were the scum team earlier, Seppel's response was, "okay, explain how Proph is Town" not why they weren't, and then as people start to look concerned with what he's doing, he pulls out the cop. I wouldn't be surprised if Iso actually gave him a cop and he's been sitting on it which is why Necarg claimed miller. Seppel asked "why would scum claim Miller on Day 3" - if he got a cop shot and knew it was in the game.
Seppel is scum for all of the above and all of the prior. KA is scum because his role is a counter to mine, he didn't counter when it happened. If you want to believe that was misguided town then why did he name me to protect himself from me when he hadn't countered me or expressed ANY concern with me? I bet the reason he countered is because Seppel was going to pull this cop stunt, either way, he's scum. Necarg is scum because Seppel defended him and spoke for him when speculating about his cop ability and set all of that up and he'd have just let people run with suspicion of Necarg otherwise.
It's all there, all you have to do is wake up and see it - Seppel, KA, Necarg scum team. Lynch them and we win. If you don't see it finaly now, I'm going to cry.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
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Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
See, unlike you, I understand the scum's perceived value of mortality.
This is where he about faced on Azrael because of Charm's ability, when the previous Day he was arguing with Charm WHO HE THOUGHT WAS SCUM that Azrael's ability could easily be on scum. Now he's seen the ability and Azrael is Town. No, he just decided that the Az angle was no longer fruitful.[/quote]No, I got a guilty on you and that can only mean that Az is town.
Already covered this in my reveal post.
Like you said, there were already 4 votes on the Hunt wagon. Your late hop is meaningless. So I made that comment and really wanted you to respond, but you didn't.
I didn't decide to cop Proph until night.
I copped Proph Night 2, how could I express suspicion on him the day prior?
See Wu-tang Clan Mafia. I tilted and openly flamed my team in the thread for being so goddamned worthless.
No, that's stupid.
...which you never did.
I don't care what a scum has to say about me. I care what he has to say about other people.
I didn't have to. I could've kept going, but you weren't giving me any useful tells, and Proph is V/LA, so there really was no point.
Actually, I'd be thoroughly impressed if Necarg is scum that flipped his ability from a Lawyer shot to a Miller shot.
You really are reaching here.
Ooh but I think I've figured out your scumtell. I was just about to reveal it... but I should save it for another game when I need to pull it out.
I made that up. Iso went along with it. Based on what I've seen from today, I don't think I need you to believe.
But, if you're serious, then here's a serious answer:
In Avant Garde Mafia, I was trying to get killed by faking being a cop.
In True Name Mafia, I was trying not to get killed by faking being vanilla.
The problem is, the last one could just as easily be:
So excuse me for being a bit skeptical.
However, Feb + Oct (or DC3 + Proph) does make me want to believe.
I'm going to need to sleep on this.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Plain and simple you're trying to sell this to win now.
D1 you talked about how Charm was scum all Day but never voted him until right when it looked like the wagon had lost momentum.
D2 you pushed a Hunt lynch along that you knew was no good.
When Proph claimed vanilla Today, your only reaction was to call him "boring," until I pressed you for your inconsistency that's not the response of someone who has gotten a scum read on someone.
Those aren't the behaviors of a Town cop. Even if you're trying to hide, you leave breadcrumbs so that if something happens to you people will know your targets. It's all after the fact after he got the Hunt lynch through. There's zero reason not to try to stop that wagon even if you want another target, Seppel wouldn't have been a priority kill regardless of his stances around the Hunt wagon because of his earlier play and he knows that.
Like, seriously, actually read his play against his motivations and wake up. Town don't push bad wagons along because they're a PR, especially when they have a guilty result.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
You're no longer engaging yourself in what I'm saying. You're ignoring things you can't counter, and instead retorting with the same old lines. So I'm done with this conversation.