Also, the Hunt wagon seems like a really bad place to be in general. I think he suffers from TDTBS syndrome.
And I really don't think he would just casually throw out 'yeah we should lynch lurkers Day 1' as scum. Like at the very least a person would wait and see how other people responded before venturing a guess on that. :/
The thing that troubles me about Hunt is his reasoning for not one, but now two votes. I explained the Seppel vote, but even the vote on me feels stiff. Fake, like plastic. Look how he explained it... it was by the book. "It was a weak vote, so I voted for you." I often find that scum are not good at giving insightful reads, so they have to give... picture perfect reads, if you will. He was pressed to vote, and when he did his reasoning was very by the book. It feels off to me. He has plenty of time to make another impression, but that's the one that lingers with me.
What are your thoughts on my line of reasoning, Cyan?
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That is town points for you, because I believe that you believe that Hunt is scum. But I think that literally 100% of what he has been accused of thus far are more 'bad player tells' than actual scum tells.
Hum hum. I do have a weakness in my heart for bad player tells, it is true. I am usually quite spirited in being able to filter those out from scum tells though, I really do have a passion for discovering bad player tells. The thing about bad players, generally speaking of course, is as town they tend to get more emotional and less mechanical when explaining things, while scum tend to forget to be genuine and are technically sound. Scum fear woefully the chance to err, so they make sure whatever they say 'makes sense' even if it isn't genuine.
What exactly about his play is 'town bad' for you, Cyan?
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@Meg
The grammar fight, you told me I'd lose, which helped me to cool it...
The Seppel vote, when he was mostly on me
Butting in on KCC
So defending is too strong a term, more accurately you hadn't been outwardly pushing me, so I thought you were not against me.
It is truly an odd state of affairs. I feel like I am the young child and all the grown ups are talking about me as if I am not in the room, but I am clearly here in earshot.
Today after work I will post more content. I will likely do a T/S list, and answer any major questions people have. So if you have anything, please post it in the next 8 hours or so...
and Unvote
Chris is actually scumhunting. His posts were too short for me to get an accurate read before but his discussion here with Cyan seems natural and honest.
I confess to not reading super thoroughly so far, so feel free to point me at any post where you have expressed your current scumreads rather than answering again.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
@Meg
The grammar fight, you told me I'd lose, which helped me to cool it... 1
The Seppel vote, when he was mostly on me 2
Butting in on KCC3
1 Do you mean 96 here? Can you explain further how this was defending you, because I'm lost at what your seeing? 2 Why did you think this vote was related to you? 3 Again, but you can explain/quote what you saw as defending you?
Cyan and hunts posts about Chris being town is exactly why Chris has crushed people before.
Chris can analyze and scumhunt as scum. You should not be giving him points for that. You have to go way deeper then that to discern if Chris is scum or not.
Having said that I do have one town Chris read, and it was at the point where Chris told cyan that his argument on me wasn't appropriate because based on his experience I always act that way. Scum Chris wouldn't have had to post that and could have let cyan continue to tunnel me with virtually no repercussions. It's certainly not something to hang your hat on, but I don't think anything else he has done is anyone other then neutral.
Seppel's suspended for a week, so my vote's not doing anything where it is.
Let's attempt a paradigm shift and Vote DYH.
Why do you keep quoting the same thing? I'm not seeing how any of those words explain why my reasoning was lacking. I see you not being for a massclaim a bunch. Or are you saying that because my reasoning is that I don't wanna out the LC, that's why my reasoning is lacking?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I hate lynching one of the most active players, but I've been thinking about what Chris said about scum acting mechanically and I think I agree with him.
My biggest issue with hunt is I feel he is going through all of the motions of town trying to shake people off of him..... Which is weird. Generally I don't see town mislynches where the person getting lynched seems to go down the checklist of things that may make people unvote (declaring that we will see he is telling the truth when he is lynched, pitying that he is getting lynched, doing things people ask him to do, state he is going to make a list for town etc.)
It's the last one I think that bothers me the most. Answering questions and making t/s list is great. Telling people you are going to do those things is weird. It is the mafia equivalent of walking into a store to shoplift and announcing to the the clerk you are there to buy things.
Well of course that is what you should be doing. Why are you telling us that? Why not just do it?
Hunt is not answering questions and making a t/s list to help find scum. He is doing those things to survive. Otherwise he wouldn't feel he need to announce it. Although there are situations I could see town acting that way, his focus on self preservation bothers me enough to ride the hunt train.
Unvote
Fos:hunt
In case the lord commander is currently voting hunt, I won't vote him and put him at -1 to prevent an accidental hammer. You can consider my vote on him however.
I hate lynching one of the most active players, but I've been thinking about what Chris said about scum acting mechanically and I think I agree with him.
My biggest issue with hunt is I feel he is going through all of the motions of town trying to shake people off of him..... Which is weird. Generally I don't see town mislynches where the person getting lynched seems to go down the checklist of things that may make people unvote (declaring that we will see he is telling the truth when he is lynched, pitying that he is getting lynched, doing things people ask him to do, state he is going to make a list for town etc.)
It's the last one I think that bothers me the most. Answering questions and making t/s list is great. Telling people you are going to do those things is weird. It is the mafia equivalent of walking into a store to shoplift and announcing to the the clerk you are there to buy things.
Well of course that is what you should be doing. Why are you telling us that? Why not just do it?
Hunt is not answering questions and making a t/s list to help find scum. He is doing those things to survive. Otherwise he wouldn't feel he need to announce it. Although there are situations I could see town acting that way, his focus on self preservation bothers me enough to ride the hunt train.
Unvote
Fos:hunt
In case the lord commander is currently voting hunt, I won't vote him and put him at -1 to prevent an accidental hammer. You can consider my vote on him however.
Let's see the claim hunt.
quoting this to remind me to revisit it later.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
I hate lynching one of the most active players, but I've been thinking about what Chris said about scum acting mechanically and I think I agree with him.
My biggest issue with hunt is I feel he is going through all of the motions of town trying to shake people off of him..... Which is weird. Generally I don't see town mislynches where the person getting lynched seems to go down the checklist of things that may make people unvote (declaring that we will see he is telling the truth when he is lynched, pitying that he is getting lynched, doing things people ask him to do, state he is going to make a list for town etc.)
It's the last one I think that bothers me the most. Answering questions and making t/s list is great. Telling people you are going to do those things is weird. It is the mafia equivalent of walking into a store to shoplift and announcing to the the clerk you are there to buy things.
Well of course that is what you should be doing. Why are you telling us that? Why not just do it?
Hunt is not answering questions and making a t/s list to help find scum. He is doing those things to survive. Otherwise he wouldn't feel he need to announce it. Although there are situations I could see town acting that way, his focus on self preservation bothers me enough to ride the hunt train.
Unvote
Fos:hunt
In case the lord commander is currently voting hunt, I won't vote him and put him at -1 to prevent an accidental hammer. You can consider my vote on him however.
Let's see the claim hunt.
I lol'ed. Anyone voting for Hunt, thereby associating themselves with this vote/FoS, should be completely ashamed of themselves.
This post *literally* says: 'Here is some town behavior of Hunt's. But I really want to vote him/make him claim, so, I am going to try to present it as anti-town behavior instead'.
Did I not just explain that? You are trying to lynch Hunt for what I can best summarize as, appearing too town. Because you feel that he is just 'trying too hard to appear town'. Your evidence of this? He does a bunch of things that townies do.
You seriously would have come off better in this exchange if you just said 'I just want to see Hunt's claim' and left it at that. That is how scummy and contrived your post was. Because seriously, that is all that you really said, you just tried to dress it up. And this is not what a townie would do here.
Did I not just explain that? You are trying to lynch Hunt for what I can best summarize as, appearing too town. Because you feel that he is just 'trying too hard to appear town'. Your evidence of this? He does a bunch of things that townies do.
You seriously would have come off better in this exchange if you just said 'I just want to see Hunt's claim' and left it at that. That is how scummy and contrived your post was. Because seriously, that is all that you really said, you just tried to dress it up. And this is not what a townie would do here.
You didn't answer the question.
How does what I did make me scum. What am I trying to accomplish as scum.
Your argument of why I am scum comes down to "what I said isn't what a townie would say"
But that isn't all of it. You also have to to think what I said IS what scum would say. Mislynches occur when you lynch based off of half the puzzle.
Obviously you think what I said isn't what a townie would normally say, and frankly I completely agree with you. I often say things that are different from how people normally look at things. So my question to you cyan is this: is what I said something that scum would say? What am I trying to achieve here if I am scum? What is my motivation for making that post because just as you said: I
"seriously would have come off better in this exchange if you just said 'I just want to see Hunt's claim
Plum's note about Cyan is actually why I am suspicious about Cyan. My posts about Hunt directed towards him were not about Hunt, but about Cyan.
Cyan has seen my scum game, in fact he has given me a lot of praise for my scum game and I was flattered by it, and as Plum himself says nothing I've done so far would be out of place in my scum game. I question why Cyan would give me townie points.
##unvote: Hunt
##vote: Cyan
If Cyan is scum Hunt is assuredly town, so let's have some fun with Cyan.
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I've also seen your town game and feel like there are some pretty apparent differences there? You were town as TWO different people in the ongoing xkcd mafia.
As for differences, possibly, but it wasn't the one you pointed out. I am fully capable of faking suspicion on people. I also don't like the Plum vote. It's basically an omgus vote.
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Commenting on you being dead is not a big deal. If the mod cares he can replace me. Or modkill me. Whatever. You put me in a position where I feel that I had to respond in this fashion, and my alignment in that game has no bearing on this conversation(whether I am town or scum in that one doesn't change the fact that you are dead 2x and flipped town both times, nor does it change the fact that I have experience with you as scum and you as town). 'Don't cite ongoing games is only meant as a rule to avoid influencing the ongoing game. That is clearly not what is happening here, so feel free to get off of my dick.
And I don't even know what 'differences' you are referring to, because I don't remember pointing out any(which isn't to say that I don't think they exist..because I defintely do. But I'm not really in the habit of revealing these things to people). And how can my vote on plum *possibly* be OMGUS? I was already voting him earlier today, and only left that because of Antny's oh so scummy OMGUS on me. For real, what are you actually talking about here at any point?
What it actually looks like is happening here is that you also realized how awful plum's stance is on Hunt, and you're just trying to get away from that wagon. Now this is certainly something that you could consider as OMGUS, but shrug. That is exactly how the situation reads to me.
You keep coming to the defense of masterplum too, something that is bothering me extremely and I don't know what to make of it. It doesn't fit with how you have played either game we have been in.
Quote from masterplum »
Obviously you think what I said isn't what a townie would normally say, and frankly I completely agree with you. I often say things that are different from how people normally look at things. So my question to you cyan is this: is what I said something that scum would say? What am I trying to achieve here if I am scum? What is my motivation for making that post because just as you said: I
Just because *I* realize that you could have done something better, doesn't mean that *you* realize that. Like..exactly how do you think that people get caught, as scum, in this game?
I wasn't on your dick. I can be on your dick (...phrasing) if you like I mean really now. I just like to make sure rules are adhered to no need to go on a warpath about it. Jesus are all the good players here so volatile about being questioned? Seems like a pattern. Doesn't really matter in regards to you specifically, just thinking out loud.
Anyway you claim to have townie points based on a post that you think is a town chris post and not a scum chris post, ergo that post is a "difference" otherwise you wouldn't note it for town points. Kind of simple, no?
Think of this as we are two players in front of a mirror. You have Hunt, supposedly from a town mindset on your part, and I have Plum. I've played in 35-40 games with Plum, so I know plum extremely well. I also know Plum is not a straight forward thinker and it can get him into trouble at times. I defend him until I see scum plum because I feel as if I have a good view of that.
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No, most players aren't quite as vitrolic about this particular issue as me. I have always had a grievance in this particular area. It's similar to the grievance I have with people not being allowed to 'Thank' posts. Without getting terribly off-topic, I find both of these to be examples of overzealous modding, which I really, really dislike. Anyway.
Anyway you claim to have townie points based on a post that you think is a town chris post and not a scum chris post, ergo that post is a "difference" otherwise you wouldn't note it for town points. Kind of simple, no?
....And? Are you saying that I think that your scum game is good that, now that I have experienced both, I won't be able to ascertain ANY differences between the two? I think highly of you, I'll give you that. But everyone exhibits some differences in how they play the game. Everyone. The only person that I feel ever managed to perfectly mimic their scum game to their town game is Azrael, and that was a few years ago.
Think of this as we are two players in front of a mirror. You have Hunt, supposedly from a town mindset on your part, and I have Plum. I've played in 35-40 games with Plum, so I know plum extremely well. I also know Plum is not a straight forward thinker and it can get him into trouble at times. I defend him until I see scum plum because I feel as if I have a good view of that.
We are talking about two very different things here. I'm not even committing myself to the idea that Hunt is town, I'm saying two things. A)Literally everything he has been accused of is better evidence of 'poor play' than it is of 'scum play' and B)In my estimation, the behavior of multiple people toward him is far, far worse than his behavior is even if you DO think he is just acting like scum.
And we're not talking about masterplum just 'not being a straight forward thinker' right now. Actually I'm not really sure what that means, but I don't think that is what we're talking about. I'm talking about masterplum exhibiting downright pro-scum behavior/mentality, in multiple instances. For you to say 'well that is just how he posts' can only carry so much weight with me, and right now we are past the point where I'm willing to just take your word for it. Because frankly, you could be scum(though I don't think this is the case). You could be wrong. Etc. I've played like 100 games with DYH(not an exaggeration), but I wouldn't expect people to clear or condemn him based purely on my opinion, and I certainly wouldn't view them with suspicion for not doing so.
But let's try it this way. Given your numerous games of experience with plum, what exactly should we be looking for as scum tells on his part? Since, you know, posts that are scummy through and through apparently don't qualify.
Scum Plum tends to sound too clever for his own good as you keep pressing him.
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Scum Plum tends to sound too clever for his own good as you keep pressing him.
Too clever for his own good? You mean like quickly barning someone else's statement that Day 1 lurker lynches are perfectly acceptable? Or did you mean like asking me questions such as:
Quote from masterplum »
How does what I did make me scum. What am I trying to accomplish as scum.
and
Obviously you think what I said isn't what a townie would normally say, and frankly I completely agree with you. I often say things that are different from how people normally look at things. So my question to you cyan is this: is what I said something that scum would say? What am I trying to achieve here if I am scum? What is my motivation for making that post because just as you said:
Do these not constitute 'trying to be too clever' in your estimation?
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Town
Cyan- Scumhunting and pushing reads, active role in pushing pace, very genuine reads
Megiddo- Scumhunting and pushing reads, seem genuine in limited responses
Lean Town
Iso- like I mentioned, Arrogance= Town for him
DYH- Seems genuine
Null
KittyCupCake- some scum hunting, tunneling a little on me, overall null
Hunger- null
Killjoy- useless banter with DYH, pretty normal KJ
Lean Scum
Seppel- Always scummy
SirChris- Especially if MP flips scum
Scum
Antny223- Not genuine, not scumhunting, tunneling me
MasterPlum- Again, not genuine, Wishy washy responses
I am very happy with an Antny or MasterPlum lynch.
I would love to know what underhanded things you are speaking about, specifically.
Sure, let's make a list:
38: Voting with a wordy explanation that amounts to having a difference of opinion on theory. 55: Trying to redirect attention onto another player. 64: When the vote in 38 is questioned, rather than explaining it or standing by it, refers to it as being just "a silly FOS," despite having agreed in 14 to use FOS as a placeholder for actual votes. 88: Arguing that the FOS in 38 would have been unvoted if it weren't an FOS, despite that not being an issue or in any way relevant to the initial placement. 90&94: Nonsense explanations which contradict what was very clearly stated in 64. 111: Retreating from discussion without ever addressing the actual issues. 113: Misrepping the case as being about simply words and grammar. 170: Jumps into a converstaion between myself and plum regarding whether it makes sense to pursue more active suspects like hunt or lurkier players on D1, and surprise, hunt weighs in in favor of going after lurkier players. 184: Votes chris in response to iso, with a bs excuse about having been "working up to it."
Although, you did ask for specifically, didn't you? -In which case, 64 is the one where I was forced to dissect the post word by word to counter the nonsense excuses that followed it.
I lol'ed. Anyone voting for Hunt, thereby associating themselves with this vote/FoS, should be completely ashamed of themselves.
Okay, now this is getting a little too Cyberspace-esque. Cyan, do you have some compulsive need to fight against open and shut lynches? -I mean, do you just enjoy being difficult, or do you actually believe what you're saying here? -Because this isn't even close to being a TDTBS case. Look at the list above. He didn't just fall all over himself out of nowhere; he made a few small slips (the first two), and then started to crack under pressure (the remaining eight).
Who is fighting strongly against the hunt wagon, here? -Oh look, it's Cyan.
And who is hunt's #1 townie? -Wow, what a coincidence, also Cyan.
And who are hunt's scumreads? -Wow, bonus coincidence, it's Cyan's scumreads!
This was the primary question running through the Lord Commander's mind when he knew he should be more focused on finding them. Did they sail around the Wall and ascend from the back? He hadn't heard report of sights at sea and it seemed likely that someone would have seen them by now... plus the army descended on them so quickly an effort like that, which would have spanned hundreds and hundreds of miles seemed impossible.
How did their army get on us so quickly? Last report had them up in the Frostback Mountains and now they are at our doorstep within a month. An army of this size would need uncanny organization... and for wildlings...
Was Mance so familiar with the Wall that he knew of a way past? No... but surely he would have sent a much larger group, were that the case. Did they find a place to scale the Wall between the parapets? Efforts like that typically had casualty after casualty... but they had been so focused south and the horde was so large, maybe that was the best explanation...
He blinked, hand itching to reach for his blade... or his cowl. They were isolated up here now, surely this could be solved just by all showing their faces... but that would expose him to reaction and everyone was on edge. Perhaps their plan was simply to kill him, in hopes and knowledge that The Watch's organization was tied to his lead, or that his death would demoralize their efforts.
How were his palms sweating when it was so bloody cold out?
Seppel's suspended for a week, so my vote's not doing anything where it is.
Let's attempt a paradigm shift and Vote DYH.
Why do you keep quoting the same thing? I'm not seeing how any of those words explain why my reasoning was lacking. I see you not being for a massclaim a bunch. Or are you saying that because my reasoning is that I don't wanna out the LC, that's why my reasoning is lacking?
It's like you're not even reading the game.
Let me break it down for you:
To "keep" quoting the same thing would imply that I've quoted it more than once. Given that this is the first time I have quoted it, this is not a statement that is in line with reality. Perhaps you think that because I said it once before, that I've been repeating myself a lot? But if that were the case, you would already know my reasoning for finding your own reasoning lacking. Which you clearly demonstrate in your third sentence in the above post, so I have to ask: Was that really so hard to figure out? I thought it was pretty clear that I believe that the advantages of having a confirmed townie outed on Day 1 outweighs the cons.
But your above post also confirms that you're not reading the game because I have definitely been in favor of the massclaim from the moment it was suggested.
So, since it took you that long to glean my meaning from my post, having told you to look it over 3 times, and you have confirmed that you're not actually paying attention to the game, please tell me why I'm wasting my time by talking to you right now. And when you realize too late that this was a rhetorical request, do me a favor and contribute content to the game instead of making posts that respond to my criticism here and have absolutely no bearing on the gamestate.
Who is fighting strongly against the hunt wagon, here? -Oh look, it's Cyan.
And who is hunt's #1 townie? -Wow, what a coincidence, also Cyan.
And who are hunt's scumreads? -Wow, bonus coincidence, it's Cyan's scumreads!
In fairness, I think this is largely due to Huntzilla's playstyle. Also, I think you'd be hard-pressed to convince anyone (or at least me) that Cyan is sticking his neck out for a newb scum player that's getting run up on Day 1. That's pretty much auto-bus material, even for Cyan, who isn't a fan of busing.
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In fairness, I think this is largely due to Huntzilla's playstyle. Also, I think you'd be hard-pressed to convince anyone (or at least me) that Cyan is sticking his neck out for a newb scum player that's getting run up on Day 1. That's pretty much auto-bus material, even for Cyan, who isn't a fan of busing.
Oh, I wasn't implying that Cyan was a buddy. I actually have a decent town read on him, even more so with this interaction. I was just amused by how much hunt was latching onto and hiding behind Cyan there.
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On second thought, let's just do this now. I was kinda waiting in hopes of seeing something that changed my mind, or otherwise to find something more concrete to share, but really it's probably better to get this out before night.
Iso, I'm pretty sure you're scum. The way you initially agreed with the hunt wagon, but deflected from it, and then later jumped on when it was obvious the direction we were heading. The fact that when you did vote hunt, you didn't get huntzillaed like everyone else on the wagon. And worst of all, at least for me, is that unlike every other game we've played together, where no matter how much jumping around you did, no matter how much I disagreed with you, I was still the one player who could more or less follow along with what you were doing; but I have no idea where your head is in this game.
And, I so, so want to be wrong on this. But, I don't think I am.
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So you can't make a post with any substance, but...you can place a bandwagon vote on the easiest wagon around?
And I really don't think he would just casually throw out 'yeah we should lynch lurkers Day 1' as scum. Like at the very least a person would wait and see how other people responded before venturing a guess on that. :/
What are your thoughts on my line of reasoning, Cyan?
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What exactly about his play is 'town bad' for you, Cyan?
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Says the man who was defending me at one point. What happened?
The grammar fight, you told me I'd lose, which helped me to cool it...
The Seppel vote, when he was mostly on me
Butting in on KCC
So defending is too strong a term, more accurately you hadn't been outwardly pushing me, so I thought you were not against me.
It is truly an odd state of affairs. I feel like I am the young child and all the grown ups are talking about me as if I am not in the room, but I am clearly here in earshot.
Today after work I will post more content. I will likely do a T/S list, and answer any major questions people have. So if you have anything, please post it in the next 8 hours or so...
and
Unvote
Chris is actually scumhunting. His posts were too short for me to get an accurate read before but his discussion here with Cyan seems natural and honest.
I confess to not reading super thoroughly so far, so feel free to point me at any post where you have expressed your current scumreads rather than answering again.
1 Do you mean 96 here? Can you explain further how this was defending you, because I'm lost at what your seeing?
2 Why did you think this vote was related to you?
3 Again, but you can explain/quote what you saw as defending you?
i can feel it
it might just be the psoriasis though.
Chris can analyze and scumhunt as scum. You should not be giving him points for that. You have to go way deeper then that to discern if Chris is scum or not.
Having said that I do have one town Chris read, and it was at the point where Chris told cyan that his argument on me wasn't appropriate because based on his experience I always act that way. Scum Chris wouldn't have had to post that and could have let cyan continue to tunnel me with virtually no repercussions. It's certainly not something to hang your hat on, but I don't think anything else he has done is anyone other then neutral.
My biggest issue with hunt is I feel he is going through all of the motions of town trying to shake people off of him..... Which is weird. Generally I don't see town mislynches where the person getting lynched seems to go down the checklist of things that may make people unvote (declaring that we will see he is telling the truth when he is lynched, pitying that he is getting lynched, doing things people ask him to do, state he is going to make a list for town etc.)
It's the last one I think that bothers me the most. Answering questions and making t/s list is great. Telling people you are going to do those things is weird. It is the mafia equivalent of walking into a store to shoplift and announcing to the the clerk you are there to buy things.
Well of course that is what you should be doing. Why are you telling us that? Why not just do it?
Hunt is not answering questions and making a t/s list to help find scum. He is doing those things to survive. Otherwise he wouldn't feel he need to announce it. Although there are situations I could see town acting that way, his focus on self preservation bothers me enough to ride the hunt train.
Unvote
Fos:hunt
In case the lord commander is currently voting hunt, I won't vote him and put him at -1 to prevent an accidental hammer. You can consider my vote on him however.
Let's see the claim hunt.
I lol'ed. Anyone voting for Hunt, thereby associating themselves with this vote/FoS, should be completely ashamed of themselves.
This post *literally* says: 'Here is some town behavior of Hunt's. But I really want to vote him/make him claim, so, I am going to try to present it as anti-town behavior instead'.
All you have to do is follow a guidebook of things to say if you are town and then nobody will vote for you.
Anyone who doesn't follow the guidebook is scum.
Mafia is solved guys. Let's go home.
How does anything I have said make me scum cyan
You seriously would have come off better in this exchange if you just said 'I just want to see Hunt's claim' and left it at that. That is how scummy and contrived your post was. Because seriously, that is all that you really said, you just tried to dress it up. And this is not what a townie would do here.
You didn't answer the question.
How does what I did make me scum. What am I trying to accomplish as scum.
Your argument of why I am scum comes down to "what I said isn't what a townie would say"
But that isn't all of it. You also have to to think what I said IS what scum would say. Mislynches occur when you lynch based off of half the puzzle.
Obviously you think what I said isn't what a townie would normally say, and frankly I completely agree with you. I often say things that are different from how people normally look at things. So my question to you cyan is this: is what I said something that scum would say? What am I trying to achieve here if I am scum? What is my motivation for making that post because just as you said: I
Cyan has seen my scum game, in fact he has given me a lot of praise for my scum game and I was flattered by it, and as Plum himself says nothing I've done so far would be out of place in my scum game. I question why Cyan would give me townie points.
##unvote: Hunt
##vote: Cyan
If Cyan is scum Hunt is assuredly town, so let's have some fun with Cyan.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
As for differences, possibly, but it wasn't the one you pointed out. I am fully capable of faking suspicion on people. I also don't like the Plum vote. It's basically an omgus vote.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
And I don't even know what 'differences' you are referring to, because I don't remember pointing out any(which isn't to say that I don't think they exist..because I defintely do. But I'm not really in the habit of revealing these things to people). And how can my vote on plum *possibly* be OMGUS? I was already voting him earlier today, and only left that because of Antny's oh so scummy OMGUS on me. For real, what are you actually talking about here at any point?
What it actually looks like is happening here is that you also realized how awful plum's stance is on Hunt, and you're just trying to get away from that wagon. Now this is certainly something that you could consider as OMGUS, but shrug. That is exactly how the situation reads to me.
You keep coming to the defense of masterplum too, something that is bothering me extremely and I don't know what to make of it. It doesn't fit with how you have played either game we have been in.
Just because *I* realize that you could have done something better, doesn't mean that *you* realize that. Like..exactly how do you think that people get caught, as scum, in this game?
Anyway you claim to have townie points based on a post that you think is a town chris post and not a scum chris post, ergo that post is a "difference" otherwise you wouldn't note it for town points. Kind of simple, no?
Think of this as we are two players in front of a mirror. You have Hunt, supposedly from a town mindset on your part, and I have Plum. I've played in 35-40 games with Plum, so I know plum extremely well. I also know Plum is not a straight forward thinker and it can get him into trouble at times. I defend him until I see scum plum because I feel as if I have a good view of that.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Baratheon loyal one-armed blacksmith for the night's watch. Crafted both Stannis' sword and Robert's warhammer.
There you go Masterplum....
....And? Are you saying that I think that your scum game is good that, now that I have experienced both, I won't be able to ascertain ANY differences between the two? I think highly of you, I'll give you that. But everyone exhibits some differences in how they play the game. Everyone. The only person that I feel ever managed to perfectly mimic their scum game to their town game is Azrael, and that was a few years ago.
We are talking about two very different things here. I'm not even committing myself to the idea that Hunt is town, I'm saying two things. A)Literally everything he has been accused of is better evidence of 'poor play' than it is of 'scum play' and B)In my estimation, the behavior of multiple people toward him is far, far worse than his behavior is even if you DO think he is just acting like scum.
And we're not talking about masterplum just 'not being a straight forward thinker' right now. Actually I'm not really sure what that means, but I don't think that is what we're talking about. I'm talking about masterplum exhibiting downright pro-scum behavior/mentality, in multiple instances. For you to say 'well that is just how he posts' can only carry so much weight with me, and right now we are past the point where I'm willing to just take your word for it. Because frankly, you could be scum(though I don't think this is the case). You could be wrong. Etc. I've played like 100 games with DYH(not an exaggeration), but I wouldn't expect people to clear or condemn him based purely on my opinion, and I certainly wouldn't view them with suspicion for not doing so.
But let's try it this way. Given your numerous games of experience with plum, what exactly should we be looking for as scum tells on his part? Since, you know, posts that are scummy through and through apparently don't qualify.
Absolutely
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Too clever for his own good? You mean like quickly barning someone else's statement that Day 1 lurker lynches are perfectly acceptable? Or did you mean like asking me questions such as:
and
Do these not constitute 'trying to be too clever' in your estimation?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Town
Cyan- Scumhunting and pushing reads, active role in pushing pace, very genuine reads
Megiddo- Scumhunting and pushing reads, seem genuine in limited responses
Lean Town
Iso- like I mentioned, Arrogance= Town for him
DYH- Seems genuine
Null
KittyCupCake- some scum hunting, tunneling a little on me, overall null
Hunger- null
Killjoy- useless banter with DYH, pretty normal KJ
Lean Scum
Seppel- Always scummy
SirChris- Especially if MP flips scum
Scum
Antny223- Not genuine, not scumhunting, tunneling me
MasterPlum- Again, not genuine, Wishy washy responses
I am very happy with an Antny or MasterPlum lynch.
Unvote
Vote Masterplum
38: Voting with a wordy explanation that amounts to having a difference of opinion on theory.
55: Trying to redirect attention onto another player.
64: When the vote in 38 is questioned, rather than explaining it or standing by it, refers to it as being just "a silly FOS," despite having agreed in 14 to use FOS as a placeholder for actual votes.
88: Arguing that the FOS in 38 would have been unvoted if it weren't an FOS, despite that not being an issue or in any way relevant to the initial placement.
90&94: Nonsense explanations which contradict what was very clearly stated in 64.
111: Retreating from discussion without ever addressing the actual issues.
113: Misrepping the case as being about simply words and grammar.
170: Jumps into a converstaion between myself and plum regarding whether it makes sense to pursue more active suspects like hunt or lurkier players on D1, and surprise, hunt weighs in in favor of going after lurkier players.
184: Votes chris in response to iso, with a bs excuse about having been "working up to it."
Although, you did ask for specifically, didn't you? -In which case, 64 is the one where I was forced to dissect the post word by word to counter the nonsense excuses that followed it.
Mine moves, if that helps.
Okay, now this is getting a little too Cyberspace-esque. Cyan, do you have some compulsive need to fight against open and shut lynches? -I mean, do you just enjoy being difficult, or do you actually believe what you're saying here? -Because this isn't even close to being a TDTBS case. Look at the list above. He didn't just fall all over himself out of nowhere; he made a few small slips (the first two), and then started to crack under pressure (the remaining eight).
1. your read on me
2. your read on seppel
3. your read on dyh
Who is fighting strongly against the hunt wagon, here? -Oh look, it's Cyan.
And who is hunt's #1 townie? -Wow, what a coincidence, also Cyan.
And who are hunt's scumreads? -Wow, bonus coincidence, it's Cyan's scumreads!
Hunt, confirm for me that you have given up trying to lynch scum and you are now soley trying to survive.
Remember earlier when I said townies occasionally put survival as there #1 priority? Those townies are not vanilla.
I'm ready to vote after our lurkers catch up.
This was the primary question running through the Lord Commander's mind when he knew he should be more focused on finding them. Did they sail around the Wall and ascend from the back? He hadn't heard report of sights at sea and it seemed likely that someone would have seen them by now... plus the army descended on them so quickly an effort like that, which would have spanned hundreds and hundreds of miles seemed impossible.
How did their army get on us so quickly? Last report had them up in the Frostback Mountains and now they are at our doorstep within a month. An army of this size would need uncanny organization... and for wildlings...
Was Mance so familiar with the Wall that he knew of a way past? No... but surely he would have sent a much larger group, were that the case. Did they find a place to scale the Wall between the parapets? Efforts like that typically had casualty after casualty... but they had been so focused south and the horde was so large, maybe that was the best explanation...
He blinked, hand itching to reach for his blade... or his cowl. They were isolated up here now, surely this could be solved just by all showing their faces... but that would expose him to reaction and everyone was on edge. Perhaps their plan was simply to kill him, in hopes and knowledge that The Watch's organization was tied to his lead, or that his death would demoralize their efforts.
How were his palms sweating when it was so bloody cold out?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Count 1.4
Killjoy (1): DYH
Iso (1): Seppel
Huntzilla (3): KittyCupCake, Iso, Megiddo
Cyan (2): Antny 223, Sir Chris
Masterplum (2): Cyan, Huntzilla
Not Voting (3): Killjoy, Hunger, Masterplum
With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
It's like you're not even reading the game.
Let me break it down for you:
To "keep" quoting the same thing would imply that I've quoted it more than once. Given that this is the first time I have quoted it, this is not a statement that is in line with reality. Perhaps you think that because I said it once before, that I've been repeating myself a lot? But if that were the case, you would already know my reasoning for finding your own reasoning lacking. Which you clearly demonstrate in your third sentence in the above post, so I have to ask: Was that really so hard to figure out? I thought it was pretty clear that I believe that the advantages of having a confirmed townie outed on Day 1 outweighs the cons.
But your above post also confirms that you're not reading the game because I have definitely been in favor of the massclaim from the moment it was suggested.
So, since it took you that long to glean my meaning from my post, having told you to look it over 3 times, and you have confirmed that you're not actually paying attention to the game, please tell me why I'm wasting my time by talking to you right now. And when you realize too late that this was a rhetorical request, do me a favor and contribute content to the game instead of making posts that respond to my criticism here and have absolutely no bearing on the gamestate.
Thanks!
In fairness, I think this is largely due to Huntzilla's playstyle. Also, I think you'd be hard-pressed to convince anyone (or at least me) that Cyan is sticking his neck out for a newb scum player that's getting run up on Day 1. That's pretty much auto-bus material, even for Cyan, who isn't a fan of busing.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Oh, I wasn't implying that Cyan was a buddy. I actually have a decent town read on him, even more so with this interaction. I was just amused by how much hunt was latching onto and hiding behind Cyan there.
I have a question for you, then - who are the scum on the Hunt wagon?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't want to answer that.
Iso, I'm pretty sure you're scum. The way you initially agreed with the hunt wagon, but deflected from it, and then later jumped on when it was obvious the direction we were heading. The fact that when you did vote hunt, you didn't get huntzillaed like everyone else on the wagon. And worst of all, at least for me, is that unlike every other game we've played together, where no matter how much jumping around you did, no matter how much I disagreed with you, I was still the one player who could more or less follow along with what you were doing; but I have no idea where your head is in this game.
And, I so, so want to be wrong on this. But, I don't think I am.