*For maximum enjoyment, it is recommended that you listen to the below song on repeat throughout the duration of your time playing/reading this thread.
"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."
The war horns sent chills down the spines of each and every one of the Brothers of the Night and signaled the coming of something far worse. In the distance, they saw it... spread like a sea of lecherous ants, engulfing the bases of the trees and covering the once sterling white ground surrounding the Haunted Forest with a blackness of sheer human volume.
How could they have been so distracted? How could they have lost sight? As much as the Night's Watch claimed to abstain from the plights of men and kings, that was as much as a joke as their vows of celibacy. It was something said, something grasping at straws in hopes that these criminals... these heinous beasts of men would subscribe to something bigger than themselves.
It was no shock when Jon Snow abandoned his post and headed south in attempts to subvert the threats against his former home - what was a shock was how elusive he had become and how determined he was. Abandoning the Night's Watch was punishable by death if discovered, but few saw purpose in beheading the Watch's main hope for loyalty in the north, one of their few with respectability and royal blood, not to mention one of their best warriors. If they were ever to get the funding, the resources, the men that they needed, Jon Snow had to be in their plans, at the forefront of visibility...
News of the fall or "rise" of Winterfell (depending on the teller of the story) spread like wildfire. Lannister crimson hanging beside the Stark direwolf atop the Winterfell parapets was enough to raise the eyebrow of even the most neutral of observer and yet... wasn't that one step closer to a unified kingdom? But with the power of the center of the north in their fealty and with all of the success and power being projected, the members of the Night's Watch were no more better off. Lannister gold evaded them, Lannister men, moreso.
After months of ranging and scouting, trying to retain Snow prior to the public discovery of his actions, they were left with a raven of regrets, condolences, and empty promises. All the while, the horde was mounting and moving with a determination and organization unfamiliar to wildlings of the past; as if it were them in possession of funding and resources... but wildlings they were. Savages. Giants. Heathens.
Desperately out manned, the Brothers of the Night's Watch huddled 700 feet atop The Wall, readying the catapults and ballistas. The horde had gathered... masses and masses and masses... just outside of range - eerily waiting. There was an omnipresent faint but audible din from the sheer number of warriors congregated, setting up camp. Organized. Waiting. But no matter how disproportionate the numbers, 300 miles of ice 700 feet high had kept them hopeful...
That is, until they discovered the bodies.
Naked and pitched from the top of The Wall into a mangled and gnarly mess, some of their own had been found murdered that morning.
Abandoned by the Seven Kingdoms they protected, besieged by heathens, and now infiltrated by their former Brother - it was now that they first and truly understood the importance and severity of the oath that they took. It was about sacrifice, it was about redemption, and it was about protection - for the realm, sure, but more importantly for the only family they had left. With wildlings baring down on them and walking among them, now was their chance to live the lives of greater men, and to rely on each other to find those cloaked among them who hoped to win this war not by assaulting ice, but through subterfuge and disguise.
1. This is about having a fun game experience. Please keep the personal attacks and flaming to a minimum. If I feel that a player is violating the spirit of friendly competition they will receive one warning. If the problem persists, a modkill is a possibility.
2. All MTG Salvation and Mafia Forum rules apply in this game. If you are not familiar with said rules, please read up on them.
3. Please do not discuss this game in any way, shape, or form outside the legal avenues for this game. There will be a spectator chat for those who wish to spectate or have died in the game.
4. Please do not quote Role PM’s. Please do not quote any other PM’s that may occur between me (as a host) and you (as a player). Failure to obey this rule will result in a modkill. If you are not sure please message me.
5. Bold your voting and unvoting. Please unvote before you make a new vote. If you do not unvote, your vote may not be counted.
6. Lynches require a vote majority. After a player has hit the lynch threshhold, no more votes or unvotes will be counted. After a player has been lynched there will be a lynch scene and the game will progress into Night. There will be no discussion in the thread allowed during Night.
7. Do not post after death. Dead people cannot speak.
8. No crypto-claiming or crypto-text or other funny business.
9. Editing or deleting a post will be grounds for a modkill. No exceptions.
10. Do not reference formatting of your role PM.
11. I will not answer game-related questions in the thread unless there is a unique need for universal clarity. If you have a question, send the me a PM.
12. If you have not posted for 72 hours, you will be prodded if you have not given the thread a “V/LA status” (Vacation / Limited Access) update. On the third prod or after failure to respond to a prod you will be forcibly replaced.
13. Do not thank posts
14. Have fun!
Game Specific Rules
1. PM formatting is off limits for discussion in this game as is the quote given to you in your role PM, please do not reference it. This is for flavor purposes only to enhance your enjoyment of the game.
2. Non-voting abilities will have a specific name. Do not reference this name. You may describe the ability(ies) in terms of standard mafia language
3. (Please pay especially close attention to this rule) The Night's Watch always must have a Lord Commander, and there is such a role in this game. The player who starts the game with this role is Town. Their vote will appear normal in the vote counts, but will count twice. Should the person in this role ever die, the role will be publicly re-elected the following Day prior to any lynch votes being cast (I will provide instruction at that time).
A player of any alignment may be elected Lord Commander and, as a result, their vote will count twice. Please be aware of how this may modify strategy and voting math this game, as lynch thresholds will be set as normal based on total number of players alive in the game.
Should a Day ever reach a deadline with a tie vote, the player with the most players voting for them will be lynched. If there is a tie vote and no difference in the number of players on the leading wagons, the Day will end in a No Lynch.
Win Conditions:
The Town win when all Non-Town players are dead.
The Mafia win when they equal or control the vote.
Order of Operations for this game:
1. Global Effects
2. Immunities
3. Controlling another player's actions
4. First strike non-killing actions
5. Gaining actions
6. Losing actions
7. Redirecting / replacement effects
8. Roleblocking
9. Protecting
10. Rescuing / Reviving
11. Sending items or messages
12. First strike killing actions
13. Killing actions
14. Gathering information
15. Anything else
Lord Eddard Stark, Hand of the King - Town Vanilla
"Character specific quote"
Flavor
Ability:
You may vote (but not really because you're dead and that's what's caused all of this mess)
It is now pre-game, please do not post. Slots and roles have been randomized. Role PMs will be going out over the course of the next few hours.
Please confirm via PM only. Once over half the game has confirmed, we will begin. Players will have through the weekend to confirm or I will look for replacement.
"Protect the Lord Commander! Hide the Lord Commander!" He heard shouting and saw a flurry of black cloaks around him. He stared ahead numbly for a moment before sobering and looking around with new eyes. Which were his men? Which were the daggers at his neck, the wolves within his walls? He knew that decisive leadership was never more needed than now. In wartime, men need a leader to guide them but these men? These were men given to succumb to their impulses.
"Cut the lift!"
Daggers drew and set to work at the only means of conveyance to the ground for 20 miles in either direction. They were isolated 700 feet in the air. There was nowhere to run.
He took a deep breath and pulled his cloak over his head. For now, he would blend among them.
So I had a thought: due to rule 3, we should forgo rvs. Rvs votes trend toward being spread out, and that will result in the scum figuring out who the Lord commander is quickly. I'd like to keep that a secret as long as possible. As late game as we can keep that secret the better. I'd imagine it'll become obvious sometime today, but if we can keep them secret till at least day two, I'll be happy.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I think it is impossible to not find out the lord commander today if he can not control his vote. He will eventually have to vote at some point or otherwise it will be pretty obvious the person who isn't voting is the lord commander.
At the same time I don't think it is a terrible problem to have. A host confirmed townie is certainly powerful, but the power of a confirmed townie isn't especially relevant till late game. His double vote matters much more at the present
I see no reason to act any differently in this game then in any others.
Well, what struck me was the fact that it read as if it was rewritten on the fly several times. There were repeated ideas and sentences that seemed disjointed. Makes it seem like an overly thought out post, which makes it scummy.
Combine that with the notion that RVS is usually feared by scum, and it all sounds dirty.
Lastly, the way I read rule three made it look as if the double vote would blend in with the other votes, and it would be indistinguishable from a normal vote, but simply count twice.
Does all of that about sum it up, DYH?
@Killjoy
Why do feel RVS would out the Lord Commander so easily? I also have to say that I think you got your wish, as this is a serious post and only a handful of us have made it to the thread.
I actually had the opposite thought: find out who the Lord Commander is as soon as possible so we have a confirmed townie voice amongst the crowd. In fact, I wouldn't be against a radical shift in how we normally play day one given we have one confirmed townie at the least waiting for us. I was thinking we should just mass claim and see what adventures await us. Given numbers there are probably 9 town and 3 scum. So after we know who the LC is there will be 7 townies left not confirmed to each townie in ten spots.
I know this is a bit unorthodox but my role really makes me believe mass claiming and choking the scum with information is a very, very good bet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
I don't see any reason to aim to keep the Lord Commander secret. It should be fairly easy to work out before we go to night. So let's just all rvs someone different and find a conftown.
I think it is impossible to not find out the lord commander today if he can not control his vote. He will eventually have to vote at some point or otherwise it will be pretty obvious the person who isn't voting is the lord commander.
At the same time I don't think it is a terrible problem to have. A host confirmed townie is certainly powerful, but the power of a confirmed townie isn't especially relevant till late game. His double vote matters much more at the present
I see no reason to act any differently in this game then in any others.
I have hopes that they can stay secret AT LEAST until D2.
Actually, can we all just FOS whomever we wanna vote? Then the doublevote is kept secret. Then we can vote on the final wagon, and the scum have to guess between X townies on the final wagon who is the doublevoter, or if that person is not on the wagon they can choose from there.
Confirmed townies are great, sure. But confirmed townies as close to endgame as you can get them is better. That's my aim with this suggestion. That's why it's usually best not to claim masons D1. Conf town early game is great. Conf town late game is better.
A question for you though: How often do you RVS normally?
Well, what struck me was the fact that it read as if it was rewritten on the fly several times. There were repeated ideas and sentences that seemed disjointed. Makes it seem like an overly thought out post, which makes it scummy.
Combine that with the notion that RVS is usually feared by scum, and it all sounds dirty.
Lastly, the way I read rule three made it look as if the double vote would blend in with the other votes, and it would be indistinguishable from a normal vote, but simply count twice.
Actually it was a phone post.
But yeah, that's how the rule works. But they know what wagon that player will be on.
@Killjoy
Why do feel RVS would out the Lord Commander so easily? I also have to say that I think you got your wish, as this is a serious post and only a handful of us have made it to the thread.
Well, RVS tends to have very scattered wagons. Occasionally a few people pile on one person, but usually it's one to two people max. Given that one player will count double, assuming that will be reflected in the votecount as an invisible second vote, the scum will be able to find the lord commander with at worst a 50% chance of success.
I actually had the opposite thought: find out who the Lord Commander is as soon as possible so we have a confirmed townie voice amongst the crowd. In fact, I wouldn't be against a radical shift in how we normally play day one given we have one confirmed townie at the least waiting for us. I was thinking we should just mass claim and see what adventures await us. Given numbers there are probably 9 town and 3 scum. So after we know who the LC is there will be 7 townies left not confirmed to each townie in ten spots.
I know this is a bit unorthodox but my role really makes me believe mass claiming and choking the scum with information is a very, very good bet.
But like I said earlier, having confirmed town later in the game is much better than having it D1. What benefit is having a conf town show themselves this early? Everyone buddies them, and while they can be trusted, that doesn't make them infallible. They have just as little info as the rest of us to go on.
I don't see any reason to aim to keep the Lord Commander secret. It should be fairly easy to work out before we go to night. So let's just all rvs someone different and find a conftown.
Vote: Iso
See my response to Chris to see why that's a bad idea.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
But like I said earlier, having confirmed town later in the game is much better than having it D1. What benefit is having a conf town show themselves this early? Everyone buddies them, and while they can be trusted, that doesn't make them infallible. They have just as little info as the rest of us to go on.
I don't see any reason to aim to keep the Lord Commander secret. It should be fairly easy to work out before we go to night. So let's just all rvs someone different and find a conftown.
Vote: Iso
See my response to Chris to see why that's a bad idea.[/quote]
unvote
I'll let other people weigh in on this before committing to a vote, but I have my reservations.
@DCIII - If people bolded them would you keep tallies of FoS?
But yeah, that's how the rule works. But they know what wagon that player will be on.
Phone post makes sense.
I am not opposed to your idea at all Killjoy, I just wanted to answer DYH's question.
I would be happy FoSing people versus voting. I do not believe we should count on the Mod to have to count those as well. We could appoint a member to do so, as it really is a construct of the town to be playing that way.
I think it is impossible to not find out the lord commander today if he can not control his vote. He will eventually have to vote at some point or otherwise it will be pretty obvious the person who isn't voting is the lord commander.
At the same time I don't think it is a terrible problem to have. A host confirmed townie is certainly powerful, but the power of a confirmed townie isn't especially relevant till late game. His double vote matters much more at the present
I see no reason to act any differently in this game then in any others.
I have hopes that they can stay secret AT LEAST until D2.
Actually, can we all just FOS whomever we wanna vote? Then the doublevote is kept secret. Then we can vote on the final wagon, and the scum have to guess between X townies on the final wagon who is the doublevoter, or if that person is not on the wagon they can choose from there.
Confirmed townies are great, sure. But confirmed townies as close to endgame as you can get them is better. That's my aim with this suggestion. That's why it's usually best not to claim masons D1. Conf town early game is great. Conf town late game is better.
A question for you though: How often do you RVS normally?
I would say seldom to never. Where I come from we occasionally have joke votes tossed around early but that usually clears up in the first 50 posts or so. The only time I make a joke vote is when there is a joke to make. I would never force it.
I know this is a bit unorthodox but my role really makes me believe mass claiming and choking the scum with information is a very, very good bet.
I doubt this game passed two reviewers and can be broken with a mass claim, or doesn't have something built in to punish that.
FOS instead of voting makes sense, though. -Just like an IC, if the LC is revealed D1, it's fine, but it's an advantage if we can hold onto it for later.
FoS instead of voting is interesting, but don't votes have to be cast at some point?
I kind of agree with Chris, in that the lord commander is probably inevitably going to be revealed, and so we might as well get it out into the open.
I am hesitant to mass claim though.
I think if scum want to shoot the lord commander N1 that isn't a huge loss.
If we have any form of protection that could save the lord commander I don't want to out it.
Even if we don't have any protection, the fear of protection could keep the lord commander alive.
Votes would definitely have to be cast, but only once we get to the point of a majority.
I feel it would be a huge loss to lose the Lord Commander, as a mod confirmed townie double voter is a huge town asset.
While it is likely we have some form of protection, it is equally as likely that the scum might have ways around it.
I am not sure that the fear of protection would be enough to let the Lord make it untouched to the next day. This makes me want to keep it secret as long as we can.
I also am hesitant to massclaim at this time.
I know this is a bit unorthodox but my role really makes me believe mass claiming and choking the scum with information is a very, very good bet.
I doubt this game passed two reviewers and can be broken with a mass claim, or doesn't have something built in to punish that.
FOS instead of voting makes sense, though. -Just like an IC, if the LC is revealed D1, it's fine, but it's an advantage if we can hold onto it for later.
FoS instead of voting is interesting, but don't votes have to be cast at some point?
I kind of agree with Chris, in that the lord commander is probably inevitably going to be revealed, and so we might as well get it out into the open.
I am hesitant to mass claim though.
I think if scum want to shoot the lord commander N1 that isn't a huge loss.
If we have any form of protection that could save the lord commander I don't want to out it.
Even if we don't have any protection, the fear of protection could keep the lord commander alive.
FOS masterplum
Weird to be using FOS, but it feels correct here.
I like the principle of keeping the double voter hidden, but I don't think that this holds up in practice, especially in a small game. It's too easy for the scum to manipulate a wagon and severely narrow down which person has this role. It wouldn't be as big of a deal of it was just confirmed town, but it's confirmed town with a double vote. We need to avoid having to pass that ability on to someone else for as long as possible.
I'll change my FOS to a Vote once we're firmly decided on the subject of how to handle this situation.
FoS instead of voting is interesting, but don't votes have to be cast at some point?
I kind of agree with Chris, in that the lord commander is probably inevitably going to be revealed, and so we might as well get it out into the open.
I am hesitant to mass claim though.
I think if scum want to shoot the lord commander N1 that isn't a huge loss.
If we have any form of protection that could save the lord commander I don't want to out it.
Even if we don't have any protection, the fear of protection could keep the lord commander alive.
I dislike this post very much.
If you don't think that losing the lord commander N1 isn't a big deal, then the bolded seems weird. Sort of disconnected from your other thoughts.
Also, why do you think losing confirmed town N1 isn't actually a huge loss? I don't see that specific statement coming from town. FOS masterplum
I like the principle of keeping the double voter hidden, but I don't think that this holds up in practice, especially in a small game. It's too easy for the scum to manipulate a wagon and severely narrow down which person has this role. It wouldn't be as big of a deal of it was just confirmed town, but it's confirmed town with a double vote. We need to avoid having to pass that ability on to someone else for as long as possible.
I'll change my FOS to a Vote once we're firmly decided on the subject of how to handle this situation.
Basically, this is what I've been trying to say. The Lord Commander, who is confirmed town, has a double vote. Keeping that in the hands of confirmed town for as long as possible is vital.
I do agree it probably won't last past the end of D1, but the longer the better.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
FoS instead of voting is interesting, but don't votes have to be cast at some point?
I kind of agree with Chris, in that the lord commander is probably inevitably going to be revealed, and so we might as well get it out into the open.
I am hesitant to mass claim though.
I think if scum want to shoot the lord commander N1 that isn't a huge loss.
If we have any form of protection that could save the lord commander I don't want to out it.
Even if we don't have any protection, the fear of protection could keep the lord commander alive.
FOS masterplum
Weird to be using FOS, but it feels correct here.
I like the principle of keeping the double voter hidden, but I don't think that this holds up in practice, especially in a small game. It's too easy for the scum to manipulate a wagon and severely narrow down which person has this role. It wouldn't be as big of a deal of it was just confirmed town, but it's confirmed town with a double vote. We need to avoid having to pass that ability on to someone else for as long as possible.
I'll change my FOS to a Vote once we're firmly decided on the subject of how to handle this situation.
So you are accusing me because you disagree with my point of view.
I am also for a massclaim. As for the benefit of outing the Great Admiral Emperor Lord Commander on Day 1, it means we can perform wagon analysis from as early as Day 1. Unless the Great Gazoo simply choose to pointedly not vote, the scum will know who our confirmed town doublevoter is within 2 votecounts, more than likely.
I think Killjoy's reasoning for not wanting to out this player is severely lacking and my role would personally benefit from not only knowing who Admiral General Alladeen is, but also from a massclaim.
Vote KCC because I'll probably end up suspecting her and DYH at some point in this game short of Cyberspace-esque performances.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
FoS instead of voting is interesting, but don't votes have to be cast at some point?
I kind of agree with Chris, in that the lord commander is probably inevitably going to be revealed, and so we might as well get it out into the open.
I am hesitant to mass claim though.
I think if scum want to shoot the lord commander N1 that isn't a huge loss.
If we have any form of protection that could save the lord commander I don't want to out it.
Even if we don't have any protection, the fear of protection could keep the lord commander alive.
FOS masterplum
Weird to be using FOS, but it feels correct here.
I like the principle of keeping the double voter hidden, but I don't think that this holds up in practice, especially in a small game. It's too easy for the scum to manipulate a wagon and severely narrow down which person has this role. It wouldn't be as big of a deal of it was just confirmed town, but it's confirmed town with a double vote. We need to avoid having to pass that ability on to someone else for as long as possible.
I'll change my FOS to a Vote once we're firmly decided on the subject of how to handle this situation.
So you are accusing me because you disagree with my point of view.
Sure.
I'm accusing you of trying to say the right thing, without seeming to understand why you should be saying it. This is what scum do. KJ highlighted it very well also. You imply that some sort of protective role could/should target whomever our mystery captain is, but also say that losing that person would not be a huge deal. This part is completely incorrect, incidentally. Losing a confirmed town is a big deal; when that person has a double vote and that vote has to be re-assigned(and could go to scum, making it difficult to get back), it is an even bigger deal.
This is also a very scummy reaction on your part. I would expect a townie here to try to figure out why they are being voted, not just assume the reason and be cynical about it.
@Iso: All we have to do is be careful with our votes. Use FOS'es until we're ready to actually lynch someone, etc.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
FoS instead of voting is interesting, but don't votes have to be cast at some point?
I kind of agree with Chris, in that the lord commander is probably inevitably going to be revealed, and so we might as well get it out into the open.
I am hesitant to mass claim though.
I think if scum want to shoot the lord commander N1 that isn't a huge loss.
If we have any form of protection that could save the lord commander I don't want to out it.
Even if we don't have any protection, the fear of protection could keep the lord commander alive.
FOS masterplum
Weird to be using FOS, but it feels correct here.
I like the principle of keeping the double voter hidden, but I don't think that this holds up in practice, especially in a small game. It's too easy for the scum to manipulate a wagon and severely narrow down which person has this role. It wouldn't be as big of a deal of it was just confirmed town, but it's confirmed town with a double vote. We need to avoid having to pass that ability on to someone else for as long as possible.
I'll change my FOS to a Vote once we're firmly decided on the subject of how to handle this situation.
So you are accusing me because you disagree with my point of view.
Sure.
I'm accusing you of trying to say the right thing, without seeming to understand why you should be saying it. This is what scum do. KJ highlighted it very well also. You imply that some sort of protective role could/should target whomever our mystery captain is, but also say that losing that person would not be a huge deal. This part is completely incorrect, incidentally. Losing a confirmed town is a big deal; when that person has a double vote and that vote has to be re-assigned(and could go to scum, making it difficult to get back), it is an even bigger deal.
This is also a very scummy reaction on your part. I would expect a townie here to try to figure out why they are being voted, not just assume the reason and be cynical about it.
@Iso: All we have to do is be careful with our votes. Use FOS'es until we're ready to actually lynch someone, etc.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Aaaaaaaand masterplum didn't address my post about him at all.
@Iso: Severely lacking? Explain.
I actually completely missed your post. Im guessing you posted at some point while I was looking at the first page but before I posted. When I posted, it bumped me to the second page and I had assumed the page was full.
In regards to your concern of me stating that the loss of the lord commander wasn't a big deal but protection could save it,
I think we had a misunderstanding of what I meant when I said it wouldn't be a big deal. I am not implying that the lord commander is no better then a random townie. Rather I think the lord commander is on par with a low level town power such as a non recruiting mason. If we reach n1 and no thee power is claimed, protection could consider saving the lord commander (generally I don't like guiding power, with a few exceptions) on the other hand if we get a cop claim d1 obviously I would rather save the cop then the lord commander, and at that point it isn't a large loss.
The confusion probably came because I was comparing different scenarios at once; a possible protection situation if no other targets existed, or a no protection situation of another power needed saving. I realize that may have made my post confusing. Nevertheless my views of the situation haven't changed.
In regards to your concern of me stating that the loss of the lord commander wasn't a big deal but protection could save it,
I think we had a misunderstanding of what I meant when I said it wouldn't be a big deal. I am not implying that the lord commander is no better then a random townie. Rather I think the lord commander is on par with a low level town power such as a non recruiting mason. If we reach n1 and no thee power is claimed, protection could consider saving the lord commander (generally I don't like guiding power, with a few exceptions) on the other hand if we get a cop claim d1 obviously I would rather save the cop then the lord commander, and at that point it isn't a large loss.
The confusion probably came because I was comparing different scenarios at once; a possible protection situation if no other targets existed, or a no protection situation of another power needed saving. I realize that may have made my post confusing. Nevertheless my views of the situation haven't changed.
The bolding I added for emphasis.
I don't believe that a mod-confirmed double voter should ever be considered low level power. I don't think protection should be saving anyone BUT the Lord Commander. The possibility of losing the double voter role to a scum member is not a good thing at all. For you to "rather save" a cop role which isn't 100% confirmed town instead of the 100% confirmed double voter is really suspect to me. It could be a difference in theory opinions, but stating that it isn't a large loss is writing it off as nothing to lose a confirmed townie.
In regards to your concern of me stating that the loss of the lord commander wasn't a big deal but protection could save it,
I think we had a misunderstanding of what I meant when I said it wouldn't be a big deal. I am not implying that the lord commander is no better then a random townie. Rather I think the lord commander is on par with a low level town power such as a non recruiting mason. If we reach n1 and no thee power is claimed, protection could consider saving the lord commander (generally I don't like guiding power, with a few exceptions) on the other hand if we get a cop claim d1 obviously I would rather save the cop then the lord commander, and at that point it isn't a large loss.
The confusion probably came because I was comparing different scenarios at once; a possible protection situation if no other targets existed, or a no protection situation of another power needed saving. I realize that may have made my post confusing. Nevertheless my views of the situation haven't changed.
The bolding I added for emphasis.
I don't believe that a mod-confirmed double voter should ever be considered low level power. I don't think protection should be saving anyone BUT the Lord Commander. The possibility of losing the double voter role to a scum member is not a good thing at all. For you to "rather save" a cop role which isn't 100% confirmed town instead of the 100% confirmed double voter is really suspect to me. It could be a difference in theory opinions, but stating that it isn't a large loss is writing it off as nothing to lose a confirmed townie.
FoS in your direction, Masterplum.
Oh, it's certainly a theory difference. I believe that an effort to conceal the lord commander is almost certainly futile, and hamstringing ourselves to do it isn't worth it.
The truth of the matter is that I believe I am being practical. If you believe the lord commanders role is so important that we need to keep it secret, outline to me your plan of how you intend to do it. If you have a solid, workable plan then we can consider it, but until then I stand by my stance that it isn't worth the time or effort trying to hide something at is nearly impossible to hide. Even if the lord commander was a triple voting cop it would still be nearly impossible to keep him hidden without resorting to a near no vote no lynch (though if that were the case I would consider it)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I have no read on Huntzilla at present. As for Cyan, however, I do not sense a scumCyan ploy in the wings. Currently, he's correcting what he believes are incorrect views on the state of the game and mechanics of the game, and it reads as genuine to me. It's a combination of gut + early meta, but I don't think he has sinister intent in this game.
Since you're so confident, explain how at least two of [Iso, Cyan, Huntzilla] are scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I wouldn't ever be so quick to dismiss Plum as town. He is kind of wily as scum in a ... simple sort of way. His town game gives me a headache.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
In regards to your concern of me stating that the loss of the lord commander wasn't a big deal but protection could save it,
I think we had a misunderstanding of what I meant when I said it wouldn't be a big deal. I am not implying that the lord commander is no better then a random townie. Rather I think the lord commander is on par with a low level town power such as a non recruiting mason. If we reach n1 and no thee power is claimed, protection could consider saving the lord commander (generally I don't like guiding power, with a few exceptions) on the other hand if we get a cop claim d1 obviously I would rather save the cop then the lord commander, and at that point it isn't a large loss.
The confusion probably came because I was comparing different scenarios at once; a possible protection situation if no other targets existed, or a no protection situation of another power needed saving. I realize that may have made my post confusing. Nevertheless my views of the situation haven't changed.
The bolding I added for emphasis.
I don't believe that a mod-confirmed double voter should ever be considered low level power. I don't think protection should be saving anyone BUT the Lord Commander. The possibility of losing the double voter role to a scum member is not a good thing at all. For you to "rather save" a cop role which isn't 100% confirmed town instead of the 100% confirmed double voter is really suspect to me. It could be a difference in theory opinions, but stating that it isn't a large loss is writing it off as nothing to lose a confirmed townie.
Oh, it's certainly a theory difference. I believe that an effort to conceal the lord commander is almost certainly futile, and hamstringing ourselves to do it isn't worth it.
The truth of the matter is that I believe I am being practical. If you believe the lord commanders role is so important that we need to keep it secret, outline to me your plan of how you intend to do it. If you have a solid, workable plan then we can consider it, but until then I stand by my stance that it isn't worth the time or effort trying to hide something at is nearly impossible to hide. Even if the lord commander was a triple voting cop it would still be nearly impossible to keep him hidden without resorting to a near no vote no lynch (though if that were the case I would consider it)
otherwise scum will control the lynch day 1
I do see your point in regard to the futility of trying to keep the secret. It will inevitably make itself known, however, we can prolong it with a little bit of diligence. If we stick to FoSing instead of real votes, and only vote when ready for the lynch, we should be safe. I don't see that as entirely too difficult. While you see giving up as "practical," I see it as "lazy." What I hear is, "I just don't want to put forth the necessary effort to keep a confirmed townie safe." To me, that screams scum at the worst, and lazy town at the best. I haven't fully decided which yet, simply because I don't know you. I have to say, I am just leaning lazy town, as the ideas behind protection seemed to come from a town mindset.
Now what is the No Lynch idea you hinted at? Why would that be beneficial?
I have no read on Huntzilla at present. As for Cyan, however, I do not sense a scumCyan ploy in the wings. Currently, he's correcting what he believes are incorrect views on the state of the game and mechanics of the game, and it reads as genuine to me. It's a combination of gut + early meta, but I don't think he has sinister intent in this game.
Since you're so confident, explain how at least two of [Iso, Cyan, Huntzilla] are scum.
You all attacked Plum for his train of thought posts.
*For maximum enjoyment, it is recommended that you listen to the below song on repeat throughout the duration of your time playing/reading this thread.
BAWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
BAWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
The war horns sent chills down the spines of each and every one of the Brothers of the Night and signaled the coming of something far worse. In the distance, they saw it... spread like a sea of lecherous ants, engulfing the bases of the trees and covering the once sterling white ground surrounding the Haunted Forest with a blackness of sheer human volume.
How could they have been so distracted? How could they have lost sight? As much as the Night's Watch claimed to abstain from the plights of men and kings, that was as much as a joke as their vows of celibacy. It was something said, something grasping at straws in hopes that these criminals... these heinous beasts of men would subscribe to something bigger than themselves.
It was no shock when Jon Snow abandoned his post and headed south in attempts to subvert the threats against his former home - what was a shock was how elusive he had become and how determined he was. Abandoning the Night's Watch was punishable by death if discovered, but few saw purpose in beheading the Watch's main hope for loyalty in the north, one of their few with respectability and royal blood, not to mention one of their best warriors. If they were ever to get the funding, the resources, the men that they needed, Jon Snow had to be in their plans, at the forefront of visibility...
News of the fall or "rise" of Winterfell (depending on the teller of the story) spread like wildfire. Lannister crimson hanging beside the Stark direwolf atop the Winterfell parapets was enough to raise the eyebrow of even the most neutral of observer and yet... wasn't that one step closer to a unified kingdom? But with the power of the center of the north in their fealty and with all of the success and power being projected, the members of the Night's Watch were no more better off. Lannister gold evaded them, Lannister men, moreso.
After months of ranging and scouting, trying to retain Snow prior to the public discovery of his actions, they were left with a raven of regrets, condolences, and empty promises. All the while, the horde was mounting and moving with a determination and organization unfamiliar to wildlings of the past; as if it were them in possession of funding and resources... but wildlings they were. Savages. Giants. Heathens.
Desperately out manned, the Brothers of the Night's Watch huddled 700 feet atop The Wall, readying the catapults and ballistas. The horde had gathered... masses and masses and masses... just outside of range - eerily waiting. There was an omnipresent faint but audible din from the sheer number of warriors congregated, setting up camp. Organized. Waiting. But no matter how disproportionate the numbers, 300 miles of ice 700 feet high had kept them hopeful...
That is, until they discovered the bodies.
Naked and pitched from the top of The Wall into a mangled and gnarly mess, some of their own had been found murdered that morning.
Abandoned by the Seven Kingdoms they protected, besieged by heathens, and now infiltrated by their former Brother - it was now that they first and truly understood the importance and severity of the oath that they took. It was about sacrifice, it was about redemption, and it was about protection - for the realm, sure, but more importantly for the only family they had left. With wildlings baring down on them and walking among them, now was their chance to live the lives of greater men, and to rely on each other to find those cloaked among them who hoped to win this war not by assaulting ice, but through subterfuge and disguise.
1. This is about having a fun game experience. Please keep the personal attacks and flaming to a minimum. If I feel that a player is violating the spirit of friendly competition they will receive one warning. If the problem persists, a modkill is a possibility.
2. All MTG Salvation and Mafia Forum rules apply in this game. If you are not familiar with said rules, please read up on them.
3. Please do not discuss this game in any way, shape, or form outside the legal avenues for this game. There will be a spectator chat for those who wish to spectate or have died in the game.
4. Please do not quote Role PM’s. Please do not quote any other PM’s that may occur between me (as a host) and you (as a player). Failure to obey this rule will result in a modkill. If you are not sure please message me.
5. Bold your voting and unvoting. Please unvote before you make a new vote. If you do not unvote, your vote may not be counted.
6. Lynches require a vote majority. After a player has hit the lynch threshhold, no more votes or unvotes will be counted. After a player has been lynched there will be a lynch scene and the game will progress into Night. There will be no discussion in the thread allowed during Night.
7. Do not post after death. Dead people cannot speak.
8. No crypto-claiming or crypto-text or other funny business.
9. Editing or deleting a post will be grounds for a modkill. No exceptions.
10. Do not reference formatting of your role PM.
11. I will not answer game-related questions in the thread unless there is a unique need for universal clarity. If you have a question, send the me a PM.
12. If you have not posted for 72 hours, you will be prodded if you have not given the thread a “V/LA status” (Vacation / Limited Access) update. On the third prod or after failure to respond to a prod you will be forcibly replaced.
13. Do not thank posts
14. Have fun!
1. PM formatting is off limits for discussion in this game as is the quote given to you in your role PM, please do not reference it. This is for flavor purposes only to enhance your enjoyment of the game.
2. Non-voting abilities will have a specific name. Do not reference this name. You may describe the ability(ies) in terms of standard mafia language
3. (Please pay especially close attention to this rule) The Night's Watch always must have a Lord Commander, and there is such a role in this game. The player who starts the game with this role is Town. Their vote will appear normal in the vote counts, but will count twice. Should the person in this role ever die, the role will be publicly re-elected the following Day prior to any lynch votes being cast (I will provide instruction at that time).
A player of any alignment may be elected Lord Commander and, as a result, their vote will count twice. Please be aware of how this may modify strategy and voting math this game, as lynch thresholds will be set as normal based on total number of players alive in the game.
Should a Day ever reach a deadline with a tie vote, the player with the most players voting for them will be lynched. If there is a tie vote and no difference in the number of players on the leading wagons, the Day will end in a No Lynch.
Win Conditions:
The Town win when all Non-Town players are dead.
The Mafia win when they equal or control the vote.
1. Global Effects
2. Immunities
3. Controlling another player's actions
4. First strike non-killing actions
5. Gaining actions
6. Losing actions
7. Redirecting / replacement effects
8. Roleblocking
9. Protecting
10. Rescuing / Reviving
11. Sending items or messages
12. First strike killing actions
13. Killing actions
14. Gathering information
15. Anything else
"Character specific quote"
Flavor
Ability:
You may vote (but not really because you're dead and that's what's caused all of this mess)
Atop The Wall (3/12):
1. Cyan - Ygritte - Mafia Bloodluster - Endgamed
5. Hunger* - Pypar - Town Vanilla - Endgamed
8. KittyCupCake - Mance Rayder - Mafia King-Beyond-The-Wall - Endgamed
*Denotes Prod
And Now His Watch Has Ended (9/12):
6. Huntzilla - Donal Noye - Town Vanilla - Lynched Day 1
2. Wheat_Grinder (r. DYH) - Samwell Tarly - Town Learned Scholar - Killed Night 1
4. Killjoy* - Coldhands - Mafia 2-Shot Silencer - Lynched Day 2
7. Sir Chris - Aemon Targaryen - Town Martyr - Killed Night 2
3. Seppel - Janos Slynt - Town Vanilla - Lynched Day 3
9. Megiddo - Jeor Mormont - Town Lord Commander - Killed Night 3
11. Iso - Alliser Thorne - Town Maser Trainer - Lynched Day 4
10. MasterPlum - Benjen Stark - Town Tracker - Symbolically Killed Night 4 (Game inevitability)
12. Cythare* (r. Antny223**) - Denys Mallister - Town Vanilla - Symbolically Killed Night 4 (Game inevitability)
Vote Count 1.1
Vote Count 1.2
Vote Count 1.3
Vote Count 1.4
Vote Count 1.5
Day 1 FINAL Vote Count
Day 1 Lynch Scene
Beginning of Day 2
Vote Count 2.0
Cote Count 2.1
Vote Count 2.2
Vote Count 2.3
Vote Count 2.4
Vote Count 2.5
Vote Count 2.6
Vote Count 2.7
FINAL Vote Count Day 2
Day 2 Lynch Scene
Beginning of Day 3
Vote Count 3.1
Vote Count 3.2
Vote Count 3.3
FINAL Vote Count Day 3
Day 3 Lynch Scene
Beginning of Day 4
Lord Commander Election Rules
Lord Commander Elected
Vote Count 4.1
FINAL Vote Count
Final Lynch Scene
End Game
Gamestate:
The game is over.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Please confirm via PM only. Once over half the game has confirmed, we will begin. Players will have through the weekend to confirm or I will look for replacement.
Have fun!
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
The game will begin tonight.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
"Cut the lift!"
Daggers drew and set to work at the only means of conveyance to the ground for 20 miles in either direction. They were isolated 700 feet in the air. There was nowhere to run.
He took a deep breath and pulled his cloak over his head. For now, he would blend among them.
It is now Day 1. You may begin play!
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Let's see if you can figure out why.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Sup Chris.
At the same time I don't think it is a terrible problem to have. A host confirmed townie is certainly powerful, but the power of a confirmed townie isn't especially relevant till late game. His double vote matters much more at the present
I see no reason to act any differently in this game then in any others.
Well, what struck me was the fact that it read as if it was rewritten on the fly several times. There were repeated ideas and sentences that seemed disjointed. Makes it seem like an overly thought out post, which makes it scummy.
Combine that with the notion that RVS is usually feared by scum, and it all sounds dirty.
Lastly, the way I read rule three made it look as if the double vote would blend in with the other votes, and it would be indistinguishable from a normal vote, but simply count twice.
Does all of that about sum it up, DYH?
@Killjoy
Why do feel RVS would out the Lord Commander so easily? I also have to say that I think you got your wish, as this is a serious post and only a handful of us have made it to the thread.
I actually had the opposite thought: find out who the Lord Commander is as soon as possible so we have a confirmed townie voice amongst the crowd. In fact, I wouldn't be against a radical shift in how we normally play day one given we have one confirmed townie at the least waiting for us. I was thinking we should just mass claim and see what adventures await us. Given numbers there are probably 9 town and 3 scum. So after we know who the LC is there will be 7 townies left not confirmed to each townie in ten spots.
I know this is a bit unorthodox but my role really makes me believe mass claiming and choking the scum with information is a very, very good bet.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Vote: Iso
Actually, can we all just FOS whomever we wanna vote? Then the doublevote is kept secret. Then we can vote on the final wagon, and the scum have to guess between X townies on the final wagon who is the doublevoter, or if that person is not on the wagon they can choose from there.
Confirmed townies are great, sure. But confirmed townies as close to endgame as you can get them is better. That's my aim with this suggestion. That's why it's usually best not to claim masons D1. Conf town early game is great. Conf town late game is better.
A question for you though: How often do you RVS normally?
Actually it was a phone post.
But yeah, that's how the rule works. But they know what wagon that player will be on.
Well, RVS tends to have very scattered wagons. Occasionally a few people pile on one person, but usually it's one to two people max. Given that one player will count double, assuming that will be reflected in the votecount as an invisible second vote, the scum will be able to find the lord commander with at worst a 50% chance of success.
But like I said earlier, having confirmed town later in the game is much better than having it D1. What benefit is having a conf town show themselves this early? Everyone buddies them, and while they can be trusted, that doesn't make them infallible. They have just as little info as the rest of us to go on.
See my response to Chris to see why that's a bad idea.
See my response to Chris to see why that's a bad idea.[/quote]
unvote
I'll let other people weigh in on this before committing to a vote, but I have my reservations.
@DCIII - If people bolded them would you keep tallies of FoS?
Phone post makes sense.
I am not opposed to your idea at all Killjoy, I just wanted to answer DYH's question.
I would be happy FoSing people versus voting. I do not believe we should count on the Mod to have to count those as well. We could appoint a member to do so, as it really is a construct of the town to be playing that way.
WILL WINTER JUST FALL ALREADY
...
WAIT IT ALREADY FELL?
THAT'S A LOT OF WINTER
I would say seldom to never. Where I come from we occasionally have joke votes tossed around early but that usually clears up in the first 50 posts or so. The only time I make a joke vote is when there is a joke to make. I would never force it.
I kind of agree with Chris, in that the lord commander is probably inevitably going to be revealed, and so we might as well get it out into the open.
I am hesitant to mass claim though.
I doubt this game passed two reviewers and can be broken with a mass claim, or doesn't have something built in to punish that.
FOS instead of voting makes sense, though. -Just like an IC, if the LC is revealed D1, it's fine, but it's an advantage if we can hold onto it for later.
Votes would definitely have to be cast, but only once we get to the point of a majority.
I feel it would be a huge loss to lose the Lord Commander, as a mod confirmed townie double voter is a huge town asset.
While it is likely we have some form of protection, it is equally as likely that the scum might have ways around it.
I am not sure that the fear of protection would be enough to let the Lord make it untouched to the next day. This makes me want to keep it secret as long as we can.
I also am hesitant to massclaim at this time.
Agree with this reasoning about the massclaim.
vote iso
goodbye
FOS masterplum
Weird to be using FOS, but it feels correct here.
I like the principle of keeping the double voter hidden, but I don't think that this holds up in practice, especially in a small game. It's too easy for the scum to manipulate a wagon and severely narrow down which person has this role. It wouldn't be as big of a deal of it was just confirmed town, but it's confirmed town with a double vote. We need to avoid having to pass that ability on to someone else for as long as possible.
I'll change my FOS to a Vote once we're firmly decided on the subject of how to handle this situation.
If you don't think that losing the lord commander N1 isn't a big deal, then the bolded seems weird. Sort of disconnected from your other thoughts.
Also, why do you think losing confirmed town N1 isn't actually a huge loss? I don't see that specific statement coming from town.
FOS masterplum
Basically, this is what I've been trying to say. The Lord Commander, who is confirmed town, has a double vote. Keeping that in the hands of confirmed town for as long as possible is vital.
I do agree it probably won't last past the end of D1, but the longer the better.
So you are accusing me because you disagree with my point of view.
Sure.
Gentlemen. Ladies.
I am also for a massclaim. As for the benefit of outing the Great Admiral Emperor Lord Commander on Day 1, it means we can perform wagon analysis from as early as Day 1. Unless the Great Gazoo simply choose to pointedly not vote, the scum will know who our confirmed town doublevoter is within 2 votecounts, more than likely.
I think Killjoy's reasoning for not wanting to out this player is severely lacking and my role would personally benefit from not only knowing who Admiral General Alladeen is, but also from a massclaim.
Vote KCC because I'll probably end up suspecting her and DYH at some point in this game short of Cyberspace-esque performances.
Unvote
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm accusing you of trying to say the right thing, without seeming to understand why you should be saying it. This is what scum do. KJ highlighted it very well also. You imply that some sort of protective role could/should target whomever our mystery captain is, but also say that losing that person would not be a huge deal. This part is completely incorrect, incidentally. Losing a confirmed town is a big deal; when that person has a double vote and that vote has to be re-assigned(and could go to scum, making it difficult to get back), it is an even bigger deal.
This is also a very scummy reaction on your part. I would expect a townie here to try to figure out why they are being voted, not just assume the reason and be cynical about it.
@Iso: All we have to do is be careful with our votes. Use FOS'es until we're ready to actually lynch someone, etc.
NO TO OUTING LORD COMMANDER BEFORE WE LYNCH SOMEONE (UNLESS THAT PERSON IS THE LORD COMMANDER IN WHICH CASE WE CONTINUE HUNTING)
YOU ARE SUCH A LIAR
-
I like Cyan for town.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You sound like me when I accuse someone.
That.... Probably isn't a good thing
Are you referring to in general or specifically in this game?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Iso: Severely lacking? Explain.
@Iso: I meant in general. Not this whole game
I actually completely missed your post. Im guessing you posted at some point while I was looking at the first page but before I posted. When I posted, it bumped me to the second page and I had assumed the page was full.
In regards to your concern of me stating that the loss of the lord commander wasn't a big deal but protection could save it,
I think we had a misunderstanding of what I meant when I said it wouldn't be a big deal. I am not implying that the lord commander is no better then a random townie. Rather I think the lord commander is on par with a low level town power such as a non recruiting mason. If we reach n1 and no thee power is claimed, protection could consider saving the lord commander (generally I don't like guiding power, with a few exceptions) on the other hand if we get a cop claim d1 obviously I would rather save the cop then the lord commander, and at that point it isn't a large loss.
The confusion probably came because I was comparing different scenarios at once; a possible protection situation if no other targets existed, or a no protection situation of another power needed saving. I realize that may have made my post confusing. Nevertheless my views of the situation haven't changed.
The bolding I added for emphasis.
I don't believe that a mod-confirmed double voter should ever be considered low level power. I don't think protection should be saving anyone BUT the Lord Commander. The possibility of losing the double voter role to a scum member is not a good thing at all. For you to "rather save" a cop role which isn't 100% confirmed town instead of the 100% confirmed double voter is really suspect to me. It could be a difference in theory opinions, but stating that it isn't a large loss is writing it off as nothing to lose a confirmed townie.
FoS in your direction, Masterplum.
Masterplum is town.
Oh, it's certainly a theory difference. I believe that an effort to conceal the lord commander is almost certainly futile, and hamstringing ourselves to do it isn't worth it.
The truth of the matter is that I believe I am being practical. If you believe the lord commanders role is so important that we need to keep it secret, outline to me your plan of how you intend to do it. If you have a solid, workable plan then we can consider it, but until then I stand by my stance that it isn't worth the time or effort trying to hide something at is nearly impossible to hide. Even if the lord commander was a triple voting cop it would still be nearly impossible to keep him hidden without resorting to a near no vote no lynch (though if that were the case I would consider it)
otherwise scum will control the lynch day 1
Did I not? If you require further explanation, I require a massclaim, first. As I said, all will become clear.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Since you're so confident, explain how Cyan and Hunt are town.
Since you're so confident, explain how at least two of [Iso, Cyan, Huntzilla] are scum.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This is just bad.
FoS Huntzilla
So is your naked vote. Care to elaborate as to why mine is so blatantly bad?
I do see your point in regard to the futility of trying to keep the secret. It will inevitably make itself known, however, we can prolong it with a little bit of diligence. If we stick to FoSing instead of real votes, and only vote when ready for the lynch, we should be safe. I don't see that as entirely too difficult. While you see giving up as "practical," I see it as "lazy." What I hear is, "I just don't want to put forth the necessary effort to keep a confirmed townie safe." To me, that screams scum at the worst, and lazy town at the best. I haven't fully decided which yet, simply because I don't know you. I have to say, I am just leaning lazy town, as the ideas behind protection seemed to come from a town mindset.
Now what is the No Lynch idea you hinted at? Why would that be beneficial?