I know we're getting some more grudging votes on AI lately, but if some people are really not feeling the AI lynch, I've got three other people left on my hit list for today, Sir Karn, Cythare, and Killjoy, who might be good candidates also. Post PBPA, I'll be as much or more happy with Cy lynch than an AI lynch, I suspect.
- I agree with Proph that nothing has happened in a long time. I think the cascade of PBPA's we've seen recently is a strong indication that we have no direction right now, and almost every case or push that has been made on someone not named Atog/AI today has been widely ignored. We are realistically looking at scarbo's scenario of turning D2 into D1 Redux.
- @Azrael: I have a pretty strong reason to doubt AI and AE are both scum, which will be explained later in the game. Just putting it out there.
Well because my ruling council has been pretty consistent in its participation to the game but has failed to provide any content or context to back up its votes.
Jokes aside tho, I thought perhaps there might be a pattern or some sort of trend to it, perhaps something that could be used by the town later on, maybe even to get some people caught in a false claim if possible, sadly as i went along with it i realized that no such pattern could be discerned, i mean i thought i found something at some point but it doesnt seem to be anything actually usable.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
I know we're getting some more grudging votes on AI lately, but if some people are really not feeling the AI lynch, I've got three other people left on my hit list for today, Sir Karn, Cythare, and Killjoy, who might be good candidates also. Post PBPA, I'll be as much or more happy with Cy lynch than an AI lynch, I suspect.
I'm fine with lynching those three but they all have little to no votes on them. killjoy's even lurking hardcore.
Hey everyone. Lots to read here so bear with me. I see there's a deadline close so I'll try to be quick. Anything I need to pay attention to immediately?
1. Read the most recent 5 pages.
2. Ask at least three different people at least one question each.
3. Give us an idea of your reads based on the portion of the game you have read.
4. Start playing the game and post at a reasonable rate.
Well, based on the first few pages, I'm seeing a lot of guild claims at least. Can someone summarize the claims so far or link to a post that does so?
The summary is: three of the guilds have had their abilities partially or fully outed. Some members of each of these guilds have claimed their guild affiliation. For more depth than that, read the thread.
Yes. I already saw those general things. I wanted a concise list of the claims so I didn't have to trawl through everything just looking for that in addition to the behavioral analysis.
Yes. I already saw those general things. I wanted a concise list of the claims so I didn't have to trawl through everything just looking for that in addition to the behavioral analysis.
This sounds more like a scum mentality than a town mentality to me -- town wants to read through to understand everything that has happened. Scum already knows who is town and who isn't, so they just want to see the highlights - what information has come from claims, and what has the town figured out (or not) about the behavior of the other players.
This sounds more like a scum mentality than a town mentality to me -- town wants to read through to understand everything that has happened. Scum already knows who is town and who isn't, so they just want to see the highlights - what information has come from claims, and what has the town figured out (or not) about the behavior of the other players.
Town
Rhand Loving the posts this time Rhand
Az My Hero
Lean Town
Taredas Great posts, again, I like the content, scum hunting, little modgaming but not in a scummy way
Vishamon some sarcasm, but not in a negative way seems interested in solving game
Axelrod Great posts, I like the content and analysis
Sepiriel Townie disdain toward initial push on her, To be fair Sepi, the self vote at the start is a scum tell around these parts, I have seen in brought up before. But now you know
Scarbo Alignment dependent on other flips
Null
AE Sounds a lot like AE but man is he hating on Zinda
Dkings Do not like his posts either
Proph Do not like posts, but they aren't scummy
Sir Karn Nothing of note here for me
Hawk I wish there was something more to say about some of these guys
Atog I am not convinced that Atog is scummy, despite the post walls from hell against him
Kool Koal Not a lot there on KK
Lean Scum
Zindabad Yucky posts at times, focused on AEs hatred of him hard
ZDS few of the quote walls were iffy to me, look at the first line of post 727, not townie thought
Scum
AI (Kami) Give replacement time to catch up
Cythare My pick for today's lynch
Snurfy (Killjoy) Give Replacement time to catch up
Unvote
Vote Cythare
Gruul
Me (Hansa)
Az
Atog
Killjoy (Snurfy)
Boros
ZeDorkSlipeur
Asian Invasion
Dkingsland967
Archmage Eternal
Hawk
Orzhov
Axelrod
Sir Karn
Sepiriel
Specifically Undeclared
Scarbo
The post walls are unbearable. I agree with, I forget who it was now, but whoever stated that this game has been a bunch of tunneling by many people. That said, several people stood out from the crowd with decent reads and good content. I included the guild data so that any other replacements could have it readily available (like you Kami). I am interested to see what Kami and Killjoy have to say after there catch ups. I was a fan of the way KJ was doing it in "realtime," as it helped with his thought process throughout. I am not sure why Axelrod thought it better for him to NOT do a tiered catch up, but it seems nefarious at best to squelch that kind of info dump unless you are scared of what might happen. However, I have been liking Axel's posts, so this could be a difference in opinion.
Overall, I think we need to move this day along. We have been churning wheels in the mud for some time now, and a flip will give us more information to go on.
I'm neither sad nor in a bad mood. You say I did something. I say I didn't. You're not expressing any real interest in my thought process. You're just being dismissive. And guess what? Dismissive begets dismissive.
If you have any questions I will gladly answer them. That goes for anybody.
Let me give you my own scumlist since everyone seems to be doing it, then I'll move on to outlining why AE's obsession with me makes him scum.
Town:
Axelrod
Proph
dkings
scarbo
Probably town:
Azrael
Sepiriel
Atog
Neutral:
KamikazeArchon
Huntzilla
KoolKoal
Rhand
Sir Karn
killjoy
Taredas
Vishamon
Probably scum:
Hawk
ZDS
Scum:
AE
Cythare
That's...a lot of people in the neutral/no read column. I can't remember anything Sir Karn has done all game, same with Vishamon, Rhand's so out of it that he deserves his own column named "lost at sea", and there's two replacements in there. Taredas...that's someone who I should look into. But, AE first.
Yes. I already saw those general things. I wanted a concise list of the claims so I didn't have to trawl through everything just looking for that in addition to the behavioral analysis.
You'll stumble upon the claims while catching up anyway, so it's not like giving you a list will save you time. Unless you need to know the claims before engaging in behavioural analysis (why?).
By the way, for the record, we haven't gone through a full guild massclaim.
I am not sure why Axelrod thought it better for him to NOT do a tiered catch up, but it seems nefarious at best to squelch that kind of info dump unless you are scared of what might happen. However, I have been liking Axel's posts, so this could be a difference in opinion.
I directly questioned him about this, to which he did not reply.
If AI's wagon somehow stalls out due to the replacement I could go for a Cythare lynch. I reread #798 and it seems to me like his goal is actually to descredit what Az is saying rather than figure out if Az is scum.
I am not sure why Axelrod thought it better for him to NOT do a tiered catch up, but it seems nefarious at best to squelch that kind of info dump unless you are scared of what might happen. However, I have been liking Axel's posts, so this could be a difference in opinion.
I directly questioned him about this, to which he did not reply.
@Axelrod, please respond to my post #670
It's related to the above. My current headspace is I don't want to read huge walls of text. It's exhausting. I'm much more likely to just skim them which can lead to missing things. Also, the "catch-up"/summary type posts I find less useful anyway. When I was scum, at least, I loved to do those. It's easy to summarize the thread, and make big posts that don't really do anything. I'm not saying I don't want to hear his opinion, or know his reasoning, but I don't need it in huge stream of consciousness style posts. YMMV.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I may have to start declaring V/LA on weekends - I haven't been able to make either of my posting windows on Fridays and Saturdays lately, and my more reliable posting window is late at night which doesn't work well when the mod is prodding in the middle of the day.
Taredas* - Taredas is the kind of formiddable player who isn't necessarily easy to get a face-value read on. In looking over his posts, you see a lot of longer analysis posts that are more difficult to accurately parse. I saw only a small number of tells that I'd view as confirmatory town, and I had some concerns that he might be being a little slick at several points. For instance, he started off voting for AI very strongly, but backed off of AI citing an explanation for AI's behavior that he didn't want to explain. I'm pretty sure I know what he's suggesting there, but I don't know that I agree that it was reasonable for Taredas to think that. Taredas, why did you unvote AI?
I will not explain why I think AI might be town at this time. I think it's safe to explain how I came to that conclusion, though?
When dkings brought up Celestial, I went back and took a look at that game - and, frankly, dkings had a point. While AI did take a couple of snipes on the defense in A3, it was far less consistent than it is here, and all of those snipes were directed at players who are easier to discredit (Iso/PopeRonPaul).
But, that didn't explain his play *before*. More importantly, there's one feature of AI's defense in Celestial that *doesn't* show up here when it probably should have (reluctant to specify exactly what, but I would have expected it in his responses to you).
So I asked myself: Let's say that I'm wrong about AI and he's actually town. Is there any reason that a town AI would act the way he has this game?
And... I realized that there *was* a plausible town explanation for AI's actions. It requires that AI was being lazy and playing suboptimally, but those are by no means implausible: AI stated that he was being lazy at least once and if AI is town then I don't see why he would lie about that, and the suboptimal play makes sense if AI fell into at least one of two fairly common townie fallacies. Moreover, if that explanation is correct then poking at it D1 is a bad idea, and it's an explanation that's easy to test as the game goes along.
It's entirely possible that I'm *wrong*, and just bought the scum defense (especially given AI's post 567, which would be really weird from this mindset). I'm keeping a close eye on AI's slot, especially now that KA has replaced in - but much like Sir Karn (who I think is likely scum, but he's claimed Orzhov and I think we need an actual flip toDay [especially given how toDay has played out] so I've put him on the backburner), I'm leaving him be for now and pursuing other leads.
I disagree - coming from AE, this is fairly strongly indicative of AE being town. AE interacts with multiple players here and in 148, and AE is much more likely to do that as town than as scum (I've looked at his past games multiple times for other games (WWE/WitchHunt), and while IIRC there *is* a game where he did this as scum outside of a catchup post, he hasn't done so in the last three years, while it's a hallmark of his town games). I correctly cleared him for that in Amistarian 3, and I correctly read him as town for it very early in WitchHunt before convincing myself that AE wasn't actually engaging other players (Proph can confirm, I sent him some comments on that game early on) - I'll be surprised if he's scum here.
(Was going to keep the reasoning to myself, since I think AE prides himself on being hard to read and might actively try to subvert this tendency in future games, but I went back and checked and apparently I explained this in A3 so oh well.)
I'm downgrading AE back to weak scum. He hasn't posted sufficiently on any other topics for a dccisive case or read at this point. I do think he looks much worse on a full thread reread than he does in a PBPA format, however. On a full thread reread, you can see just how badly he's ignoring everything else that's going on, yet still commenting on very fine details related to the 1-2 people he's chosen to engage with.
AE ignoring the main topics of conversation isn't atypical as either alignment, especially in a large game - he did the same thing in WitchHunt (where he tunneled on me to the exclusion of basically everything else) and in Amistarian 3 (where he focused on kpaca for a sizable chunk of D1).
Scum:
Atog - Too many "I said X but I meant Y" excuses.
Azrael - His defense of Atog doesn't make sense. He went out of his way to defend a very scummy player, without any significant town reason to do so. I could see this as either scum trying to defuse aggro on a weaker fellow scum, or scum defending someone they know is town, with the hope of earning townpoints later if Atog gets lynched. Given my Atog read, I think it's the former.
Lean scum:
Hawk - insufficient justification, flippant - not focused.
Proph - decent analysis, but don't like the self-consciousness.
KoolKoal - see below.
Neutral:
Zinda - strongly disliked his opening post, dislike the quotewalls, but the analysis seems authentic.
Vishamon - unhelpful, but that isn't a scum tell.
Lean town:
Killjoy: Like his catch-up analysis.
Town:
ZDS - Like his whole approach. Deep analysis. Examining many players.
Anyone not mentioned didn't register any alignment in my read.
Vishamon: Why did you say Az claimed scum in #272?
KoolKoal: In #780, you have this:
At that point Atog had already explained he only supported the Vishamon wagon (which was the reason KK had a scum read on him) as part of a Cunning Plan. Did KK buy this defense? Who knows.
I didn't believe it. If he hadn't pulled it out as a sudden sidestep to his growing wagon, then it would have been believable. Instead its an easy excuse that's meant to clear him completely and could be said about any post that looks bad.
KoolKoal:
2) Why haven't you commented on Atog's Vishamon defense, or on Az and Axel's discussion of it?
2. Honestly, I don't even recall reading Atog's Vishamon defense, and I just scrolled back half the thread and couldn't find it. Show me? As a general statement that might answer your question faster: I don't think there's much point to carefully picking over someone's defense of obvtown. You might find a scumslip or something I guess, but I think you usually will find nothing alignment indicative.
I already answered the second half above.
You go from saying "I didn't believe it" to "I don't recall reading it" in a single post. Explain.
So, KA, to be clear, AZ is a scum read because of the way he defended Atog. And not for the way he went after AI. Who is you.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@ZDS: I never said that interaction proves zinda and hans are/were scum buddies. I said that interaction makes sense in that situation, a situation I believe to be the case.
My turn. Why are you OK with a Cythare wagon but not a Cythare lynch?
Guys as much as i want to I keep feeling im in over my head this game, I may need to stick to more basic setups or smaller sized games for a while untili can get aa good handle of things (maybe even a mentoring or two really), as such im going to have to ask Meg:
/Replace
Really sorry guys i just simply can't get my head in the game considering how much input you guys are providing and i simply dont think i can return it in kind.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
@Sepiriel: it should become easier after a few game Days. There's simply too many people to make it easy to get a grasp on the game. There's nothing wrong with having no reads on half of us Day 1. Focus on the reads you do have.
In other news: I'm back from a very succesful first cruise of the season and will start an in depth reread.
my next cruise is in May so I've got more than a month of full activity now
Kami: ZDS and I had a communication error. Read the full exchange before tossing around "gotcha" questions.
Speaking of gotcha questions, Taredas, isn't this the same sort of question you caught me with in witchhunt?
Quote from Kami »
You go from saying "I didn't believe it" to "I don't recall reading it" in a single post. Explain.
Someone legitimately searching for tells wouldn't call someone scum for saying two completely opposite things in one post anyway. That isn't a scum tell or a town tell. Basically, kami came out of the gate reaching too hard to see me as scum. He did the same thing to Az, though not as obviously.
I don't think there's need for debate any more. Let's run him up.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Axel: Correct. If he had just gone after AI, he would have been wrong, not scummy. If I'd been in his position I would probably have gone after AI myself.
Kool: I'll read it again, but I still want you to state in your own words what the communication error was. Also, please explain how contradicting yourself isn't a scum tell.
unvote vote Azrael
Also, I just realized Sir Karn has made no impact on me and that basically never happens so I'm going to go reread him.
Is preventing a mislynch a town reason to defend someone? I feel like maybe that could have been my reason...
*bodily grabs twitchy voting finger*
Cythare's probably better for today.
Vote: Cythare.
I'll hammer out the PBPA as soon as I can, but in the meantime, I highly recommend rereading his reaction to my case against him, including his supposed reasons for suspecting me in his PBPA. He never did elaborate on what exactly in his seven-post PBPA made him think I was scum.
There's contradicting yourself, and then there's real misunderstandings. An accidental scum contradiction would have some hidden motivation/agenda.
So what motive did you think you caught me on?
I read the second part of the ZDS quote as Tog's Vish defense -> Tog's defense of Vish, rather than Tog's defense that used Vish.
Of course, someone reading that without a previous goal of finding me scummy might have read "I don't think there's much point to carefully picking over someone's defense of obvtown." and realized this. (This was in the piece you quoted even)
ZDS understood our miscommunication perfectly:
Quote from ZDS »
My bad, I guess I used the wrong words. I meant the way Atog used Vishamon to defend himself. Ie, this exchange (paraphrasing):
"Atog Accuser: Atog's vote on Vishamon was very bad!
Atog: I know, I was never serious about it and I wanted to catch scum with it"
So why didn't you?
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Az: No, it's not a good reason, unless you have some kind of confirmation that the player is town. Which you can't at this point in the game, unless you're scum and know he's town. Or you're some kind of cleared mason, which I hadn't actually considered before. OK, yes, that is the one case where it would be a good town reason to defend him in that circumstance. I doubt that's the case here.
KK: I think you're attributing something to me that I didn't say. I had you as "lean scum" and I asked you to explain yourself. Now the question is: why are you so aggro in defending yourself?
Scum contradictions don't need to have an agenda. Scum are lying by definition; lies spread and create more lies, and sometimes they get caught in their own lies.
Then if you're unsure about Cythare, why did you go ahead and say you weren't OK with a Cythare lynch? Clearly if Cythare were to be lynched there would first be a Cythare wagon. I still don't see why you would include the disclaimer that you weren't OK with a Cythare lynch.
I dislike the replacements because I can't see either of them doing that as scum because that would be so BM to your scum team. And now I'm using out of game knowledge to solve the game.
A couple drive-by points...
- I agree with Proph that nothing has happened in a long time. I think the cascade of PBPA's we've seen recently is a strong indication that we have no direction right now, and almost every case or push that has been made on someone not named Atog/AI today has been widely ignored. We are realistically looking at scarbo's scenario of turning D2 into D1 Redux.
- @Azrael: I have a pretty strong reason to doubt AI and AE are both scum, which will be explained later in the game. Just putting it out there.
- @Sepiriel: Why are you focusing on Obzedat?
Well because my ruling council has been pretty consistent in its participation to the game but has failed to provide any content or context to back up its votes.
Jokes aside tho, I thought perhaps there might be a pattern or some sort of trend to it, perhaps something that could be used by the town later on, maybe even to get some people caught in a false claim if possible, sadly as i went along with it i realized that no such pattern could be discerned, i mean i thought i found something at some point but it doesnt seem to be anything actually usable.
Sorry Meg.
/replace
Outdated Mafia Stats
I'm fine with lynching those three but they all have little to no votes on them. killjoy's even lurking hardcore.
Waiting to see what Arhoncid produces.
Was this intended to be a sarcastic remark?
Town
Rhand Loving the posts this time Rhand
Az My Hero
Lean Town
Taredas Great posts, again, I like the content, scum hunting, little modgaming but not in a scummy way
Vishamon some sarcasm, but not in a negative way seems interested in solving game
Axelrod Great posts, I like the content and analysis
Sepiriel Townie disdain toward initial push on her, To be fair Sepi, the self vote at the start is a scum tell around these parts, I have seen in brought up before. But now you know
Scarbo Alignment dependent on other flips
Null
AE Sounds a lot like AE but man is he hating on Zinda
Dkings Do not like his posts either
Proph Do not like posts, but they aren't scummy
Sir Karn Nothing of note here for me
Hawk I wish there was something more to say about some of these guys
Atog I am not convinced that Atog is scummy, despite the post walls from hell against him
Kool Koal Not a lot there on KK
Lean Scum
Zindabad Yucky posts at times, focused on AEs hatred of him hard
ZDS few of the quote walls were iffy to me, look at the first line of post 727, not townie thought
Scum
AI (Kami) Give replacement time to catch up
Cythare My pick for today's lynch
Snurfy (Killjoy) Give Replacement time to catch up
Unvote
Vote Cythare
Gruul
Me (Hansa)
Az
Atog
Killjoy (Snurfy)
Boros
ZeDorkSlipeur
Asian Invasion
Dkingsland967
Archmage Eternal
Hawk
Orzhov
Axelrod
Sir Karn
Sepiriel
Specifically Undeclared
Scarbo
The post walls are unbearable. I agree with, I forget who it was now, but whoever stated that this game has been a bunch of tunneling by many people. That said, several people stood out from the crowd with decent reads and good content. I included the guild data so that any other replacements could have it readily available (like you Kami). I am interested to see what Kami and Killjoy have to say after there catch ups. I was a fan of the way KJ was doing it in "realtime," as it helped with his thought process throughout. I am not sure why Axelrod thought it better for him to NOT do a tiered catch up, but it seems nefarious at best to squelch that kind of info dump unless you are scared of what might happen. However, I have been liking Axel's posts, so this could be a difference in opinion.
Overall, I think we need to move this day along. We have been churning wheels in the mud for some time now, and a flip will give us more information to go on.
If you have any questions I will gladly answer them. That goes for anybody.
Town:
Axelrod
Proph
dkings
scarbo
Probably town:
Azrael
Sepiriel
Atog
Neutral:
KamikazeArchon
Huntzilla
KoolKoal
Rhand
Sir Karn
killjoy
Taredas
Vishamon
Probably scum:
Hawk
ZDS
Scum:
AE
Cythare
That's...a lot of people in the neutral/no read column. I can't remember anything Sir Karn has done all game, same with Vishamon, Rhand's so out of it that he deserves his own column named "lost at sea", and there's two replacements in there. Taredas...that's someone who I should look into. But, AE first.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
@Axelrod, please respond to my post #670
It's related to the above. My current headspace is I don't want to read huge walls of text. It's exhausting. I'm much more likely to just skim them which can lead to missing things. Also, the "catch-up"/summary type posts I find less useful anyway. When I was scum, at least, I loved to do those. It's easy to summarize the thread, and make big posts that don't really do anything. I'm not saying I don't want to hear his opinion, or know his reasoning, but I don't need it in huge stream of consciousness style posts. YMMV.
---
I will not explain why I think AI might be town at this time. I think it's safe to explain how I came to that conclusion, though?
When dkings brought up Celestial, I went back and took a look at that game - and, frankly, dkings had a point. While AI did take a couple of snipes on the defense in A3, it was far less consistent than it is here, and all of those snipes were directed at players who are easier to discredit (Iso/PopeRonPaul).
But, that didn't explain his play *before*. More importantly, there's one feature of AI's defense in Celestial that *doesn't* show up here when it probably should have (reluctant to specify exactly what, but I would have expected it in his responses to you).
So I asked myself: Let's say that I'm wrong about AI and he's actually town. Is there any reason that a town AI would act the way he has this game?
And... I realized that there *was* a plausible town explanation for AI's actions. It requires that AI was being lazy and playing suboptimally, but those are by no means implausible: AI stated that he was being lazy at least once and if AI is town then I don't see why he would lie about that, and the suboptimal play makes sense if AI fell into at least one of two fairly common townie fallacies. Moreover, if that explanation is correct then poking at it D1 is a bad idea, and it's an explanation that's easy to test as the game goes along.
It's entirely possible that I'm *wrong*, and just bought the scum defense (especially given AI's post 567, which would be really weird from this mindset). I'm keeping a close eye on AI's slot, especially now that KA has replaced in - but much like Sir Karn (who I think is likely scum, but he's claimed Orzhov and I think we need an actual flip toDay [especially given how toDay has played out] so I've put him on the backburner), I'm leaving him be for now and pursuing other leads.
I disagree - coming from AE, this is fairly strongly indicative of AE being town. AE interacts with multiple players here and in 148, and AE is much more likely to do that as town than as scum (I've looked at his past games multiple times for other games (WWE/WitchHunt), and while IIRC there *is* a game where he did this as scum outside of a catchup post, he hasn't done so in the last three years, while it's a hallmark of his town games). I correctly cleared him for that in Amistarian 3, and I correctly read him as town for it very early in WitchHunt before convincing myself that AE wasn't actually engaging other players (Proph can confirm, I sent him some comments on that game early on) - I'll be surprised if he's scum here.
(Was going to keep the reasoning to myself, since I think AE prides himself on being hard to read and might actively try to subvert this tendency in future games, but I went back and checked and apparently I explained this in A3 so oh well.)
AE ignoring the main topics of conversation isn't atypical as either alignment, especially in a large game - he did the same thing in WitchHunt (where he tunneled on me to the exclusion of basically everything else) and in Amistarian 3 (where he focused on kpaca for a sizable chunk of D1).
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Atog - Too many "I said X but I meant Y" excuses.
Azrael - His defense of Atog doesn't make sense. He went out of his way to defend a very scummy player, without any significant town reason to do so. I could see this as either scum trying to defuse aggro on a weaker fellow scum, or scum defending someone they know is town, with the hope of earning townpoints later if Atog gets lynched. Given my Atog read, I think it's the former.
Lean scum:
Hawk - insufficient justification, flippant - not focused.
Proph - decent analysis, but don't like the self-consciousness.
KoolKoal - see below.
Neutral:
Zinda - strongly disliked his opening post, dislike the quotewalls, but the analysis seems authentic.
Vishamon - unhelpful, but that isn't a scum tell.
Lean town:
Killjoy: Like his catch-up analysis.
Town:
ZDS - Like his whole approach. Deep analysis. Examining many players.
Anyone not mentioned didn't register any alignment in my read.
Vishamon: Why did you say Az claimed scum in #272?
KoolKoal: In #780, you have this:
You go from saying "I didn't believe it" to "I don't recall reading it" in a single post. Explain.
My turn. Why are you OK with a Cythare wagon but not a Cythare lynch?
/Replace
Really sorry guys i just simply can't get my head in the game considering how much input you guys are providing and i simply dont think i can return it in kind.
@Sepiriel: it should become easier after a few game Days. There's simply too many people to make it easy to get a grasp on the game. There's nothing wrong with having no reads on half of us Day 1. Focus on the reads you do have.
In other news: I'm back from a very succesful first cruise of the season and will start an in depth reread.
my next cruise is in May so I've got more than a month of full activity now
Speaking of gotcha questions, Taredas, isn't this the same sort of question you caught me with in witchhunt?
Someone legitimately searching for tells wouldn't call someone scum for saying two completely opposite things in one post anyway. That isn't a scum tell or a town tell. Basically, kami came out of the gate reaching too hard to see me as scum. He did the same thing to Az, though not as obviously.
I don't think there's need for debate any more. Let's run him up.
Axel: Correct. If he had just gone after AI, he would have been wrong, not scummy. If I'd been in his position I would probably have gone after AI myself.
Kool: I'll read it again, but I still want you to state in your own words what the communication error was. Also, please explain how contradicting yourself isn't a scum tell.
unvote
vote Azrael
Also, I just realized Sir Karn has made no impact on me and that basically never happens so I'm going to go reread him.
*bodily grabs twitchy voting finger*
Cythare's probably better for today.
Vote: Cythare.
I'll hammer out the PBPA as soon as I can, but in the meantime, I highly recommend rereading his reaction to my case against him, including his supposed reasons for suspecting me in his PBPA. He never did elaborate on what exactly in his seven-post PBPA made him think I was scum.
Started at post 788. http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/598429-gatecrash-day-one-murder-investigation-deadline?comment=788
So what motive did you think you caught me on?
Of course, someone reading that without a previous goal of finding me scummy might have read "I don't think there's much point to carefully picking over someone's defense of obvtown." and realized this. (This was in the piece you quoted even)
ZDS understood our miscommunication perfectly: So why didn't you?
KK: I think you're attributing something to me that I didn't say. I had you as "lean scum" and I asked you to explain yourself. Now the question is: why are you so aggro in defending yourself?
Scum contradictions don't need to have an agenda. Scum are lying by definition; lies spread and create more lies, and sometimes they get caught in their own lies.
I dislike the replacements because I can't see either of them doing that as scum because that would be so BM to your scum team. And now I'm using out of game knowledge to solve the game.
Outdated Mafia Stats