KoolKoal is doing nothing but OMGUSing and defending himself. He's not scumhunting. Let's get more votes on him.
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Az's post is good, but I feel like I would be more inclined to follow it come D2. I'm not sold on AI, but I'm fine moving forward with his other four reads (Cythare, Sir Karn, killjoy, AE). Most of them have been null for me other than killjoy or AE, and w/r/t AE I'm willing to trust Az's read on him given that he's read AE correctly in the last.. two or three games he's played with him.
My only hesitation is the read on Sir Karn. I find him consistently difficult to read since he plays like this whether he's town or scum. Az, would you be willing to crosscheck this game with Iji Mafia, where he was town?
Also, you meant snurfy instead of scarbo, right? You have scarbo as part of the "ultratown" list and the "strong scum reads" list.
I find it suspect that Cythare immediately lept out of the woodworks to defend himself against Az.
@Az: What do you think of this post? Does it change your read on KoolKoal?
First post is correct, second post is not the one I had in mind.
This one then? Anyways, this has gotten me thinking that I need to reread Az. AI's post above jogged my memory on it.
9: This is null. I'd thought it was townie initially, but can see this coming from either alignment. I'm not sure if this is something Az usually does. 31: This reads fine, but now I'm paranoid. 183: Vishamon-related stuff is weird, but not a tell. 193: Subtle mudslinging at Proph? I'm not sure here, since Proph is firmly in Az's town pile. 344: Az's case on AI. After rereading, the case reads pretty compelling, but a lot of his points don't add up to a scum read after I go through them, as a lot of it is based on barbed language, which in my experience comes with the territory. I recognize that there are other things here - Az's noted language tells, the vigging, and the endorsement - but I keep circling back to how Az has pointed out that zindabad's barbed language is not scummy, yet AI's is. 442: In contrast to the AI PBPA, Az's PBPA of Atog is pretty meager, pointing out a few town tells and leaving it be. AI's PBPA included dissonant posts that went against his read or were null, but for Atog, he leaves it at a few posts that align with his stance. 457: Steps back a bit to "could come from either alignment" after I question him. He follows up a bit later that a lack of scumtells means Atog is probably town, which is fair in theory, but not great.
After some other related discussion on PBPAs, Azrael admits that PBPAs prove more that the poster can write good PBPAs and that it's the little things that matter. AI's "little things" still don't read scummy to me, and the maneuvering Azrael does is something that I dislike. That said, I'm not in the best position to push this, so
Karn's posts in Iji and here are night and day, in my opinion. The length is the same, but the content is completely different in tone. In Iji, as town, he's playful, opinionated, he throws in good-natured banter, he's casually taking stances on a regular basis. Here, he's guarded, dour, close-mouthed, and persistently negative.
9: This is null. I'd thought it was townie initially, but can see this coming from either alignment. I'm not sure if this is something Az usually does. 31: This reads fine, but now I'm paranoid. 183: Vishamon-related stuff is weird, but not a tell. 193: Subtle mudslinging at Proph? I'm not sure here, since Proph is firmly in Az's town pile. 344: Az's case on AI. After rereading, the case reads pretty compelling, but a lot of his points don't add up to a scum read after I go through them, as a lot of it is based on barbed language, which in my experience comes with the territory. I recognize that there are other things here - Az's noted language tells, the vigging, and the endorsement - but I keep circling back to how Az has pointed out that zindabad's barbed language is not scummy, yet AI's is. 442: In contrast to the AI PBPA, Az's PBPA of Atog is pretty meager, pointing out a few town tells and leaving it be. AI's PBPA included dissonant posts that went against his read or were null, but for Atog, he leaves it at a few posts that align with his stance. 457: Steps back a bit to "could come from either alignment" after I question him. He follows up a bit later that a lack of scumtells means Atog is probably town, which is fair in theory, but not great.
After some other related discussion on PBPAs, Azrael admits that PBPAs prove more that the poster can write good PBPAs and that it's the little things that matter. AI's "little things" still don't read scummy to me, and the maneuvering Azrael does is something that I dislike. That said, I'm not in the best position to push this, so
So am I scum, or not?
You seem more concerned with blowback from pushing this, than you do with actually catching scum or making your stance clear...
I now have a general framework from which to view the game, so expect more content and analysis from me. Aside from the occasional "why is Az declaring this person town or scum with no reasoning and making me feel dumb" I think I've successfully passed the "out of my league" hurdle, but we'll see I guess.
I would say so. *Nobody* Has that many well-defined reads and analysis this early in the game. Except, apparently, you.
This isn't mud-slinging, this is me complimenting Proph on graduating from feeling out of his league, to having more detailed, well-thought out reads on players than I've ever seen any player have, that early in the day. I'm saying he just made my list of people who seriously impressed me.
9: This is null. I'd thought it was townie initially, but can see this coming from either alignment. I'm not sure if this is something Az usually does. 31: This reads fine, but now I'm paranoid. 183: Vishamon-related stuff is weird, but not a tell. 193: Subtle mudslinging at Proph? I'm not sure here, since Proph is firmly in Az's town pile. 344: Az's case on AI. After rereading, the case reads pretty compelling, but a lot of his points don't add up to a scum read after I go through them, as a lot of it is based on barbed language, which in my experience comes with the territory. I recognize that there are other things here - Az's noted language tells, the vigging, and the endorsement - but I keep circling back to how Az has pointed out that zindabad's barbed language is not scummy, yet AI's is. 442: In contrast to the AI PBPA, Az's PBPA of Atog is pretty meager, pointing out a few town tells and leaving it be. AI's PBPA included dissonant posts that went against his read or were null, but for Atog, he leaves it at a few posts that align with his stance. 457: Steps back a bit to "could come from either alignment" after I question him. He follows up a bit later that a lack of scumtells means Atog is probably town, which is fair in theory, but not great.
After some other related discussion on PBPAs, Azrael admits that PBPAs prove more that the poster can write good PBPAs and that it's the little things that matter. AI's "little things" still don't read scummy to me, and the maneuvering Azrael does is something that I dislike. That said, I'm not in the best position to push this, so
So am I scum, or not?
You seem more concerned with blowback from pushing this, than you do with actually catching scum or making your stance clear...
More concerned? I am at the point where I think you're scum. I just don't think it's going to be possible to lynch you Day 1, and I'm battling feeling checked out for the Day.
While you're at it, what's your stance on Snurfy/KJ, Sir Karn, and AE?
snurfjoy: Snurfy's posts read terribly, and I don't like that KJ has disappeared.
Sir Karn: Haven't paid attention, so would have to read. I traditionally have trouble reading him, because truncated play is something he does as both sides.
AE: I think AE is town, largely because I dislike zindabad and I can't see them being scum together.
I now have a general framework from which to view the game, so expect more content and analysis from me. Aside from the occasional "why is Az declaring this person town or scum with no reasoning and making me feel dumb" I think I've successfully passed the "out of my league" hurdle, but we'll see I guess.
I would say so. *Nobody* Has that many well-defined reads and analysis this early in the game. Except, apparently, you.
This isn't mud-slinging, this is me complimenting Proph on graduating from feeling out of his league, to having more detailed, well-thought out reads on players than I've ever seen any player have, that early in the day. I'm saying he just made my list of people who seriously impressed me.
The "except, apparently, you" reads to me like a hint of distrust (or slinging) despite him being your top town read in the previous post.
AI and Zindabad are treated differently for good reason. I can see the sources of Zindabad's mindset, in his ordinary character, and in the individual interactions that get under his skin and frustrate him.
The sources of AI's discontent are...boredom?
Doing any given thing X can be either scummy or townish. The determinative factor is if there's an evident motivation behind why you did that thing.
I don't see why AI would have been bored with this game. No one else has been bored with the game. It's moving along at a fair clip, there are plenty of wagons, lots of people were excited for it and looking forward to joining it. Beyond that, he doesn't actually sound bored, he just sounds pissed off with the world. It's far more likely he's "bored" with the game because it's well-known that he hates playing as scum, and he's getting repeatedly reamed on day one by yours truly.
AI and Zindabad are treated differently for good reason. I can see the sources of Zindabad's mindset, in his ordinary character, and in the individual interactions that get under his skin and frustrate him.
The sources of AI's discontent are...boredom?
Doing any given thing X can be either scummy or townish. The determinative factor is if there's an evident motivation behind why you did that thing.
I don't see why AI would have been bored with this game. No one else has been bored with the game. It's moving along at a fair clip, there are plenty of wagons, lots of people were excited for it and looking forward to joining it. Beyond that, he doesn't actually sound bored, he just sounds pissed off with the world. It's far more likely he's "bored" with the game because it's well-known that he hates playing as scum, and he's getting repeatedly reamed on day one by yours truly.
I have little exposure to zindabad, so that may be part of it, but his barbs don't seem genuine to me. I understand the motivation element here - it just doesn't equate to scum!AI for me, because this feels like AI I've seen before as town in Ataghan (sans the bored piece). I can't speak to that.
So which of this posts made you suddenly switch your read to me being scummy?
Because the first four points in your PBPA were simple summary, with no actual reads attached.
There were only three other points in your PBPA.
The first amounts to your disagreeing with my case on AI. That's a scum tell because...?
Your 2nd post amounts to pointing out that I didn't do a full PBPA on Atog, but simply pointed out the posts I felt were relevant to his defense. ZDS had JUST done a full PBPA, and I was replying to it. So...that's a scum tell because...?
Your third post concludes that my read on Atog as probable town for not having any scum tells is "fair in theory, but not great". That's a scum tell because...?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I must have imagined the quotes he provided, then.
The quote, you mean? This one?
Quote from zindabad
Don't have time to give this game my full attention, but - damn, AE, you've only been scum twice (besides this game, I mean)?
The quote from a five-year-old game that he then tries to relate to this statement that I made in this game?
Quote from zindabad
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
Funny Zindabad. Why leave the main point out of the quote?
AE
Its weird, you sounded like you knew exactly how I functioned as scum but no idea that I haven't been scum much. Almost like you just threw it out there hoping it would catch on.
Remember? I bolded the comparison. You conveniently left it out. I'm comparing the thought process, not how I nailed you. Your making this to easy.
@Whoever is attacking me for my stances on Azrael: following the best player in his most certain lynch is not bad play. He either has to bus his whole team if scum or lose his credibility by lynchung town. Both are good outcomes and Day one is the best Day to test him.
@Whoever is attacking me because scum hates long Day ones: they don't. Long Day ones work against town because they make rereading a thougher chore.
I don't see why AI would have been bored with this game. No one else has been bored with the game. It's moving along at a fair clip, there are plenty of wagons, lots of people were excited for it and looking forward to joining it. Beyond that, he doesn't actually sound bored, he just sounds pissed off with the world. It's far more likely he's "bored" with the game because it's well-known that he hates playing as scum, and he's getting repeatedly reamed on day one by yours truly.
And you've somehow failed to consider that I might lose interest in a game in which everything I say is twisted and used against me by someone who has no idea how to read me and yet whose word is treated as tears from heaven. Fascinating.
Partially that's because the Mafia would be too easy to PoE out if they couldn't have clan abilities (given that Bloodrush is easily provable in thread and Boros is potentially provable if/when people start claiming targets)
Um, do you know what the Boros ability is? How do you know how "provable" it is?
Educated guess, hence the potentially. At least one Boros member has mentioned that the Boros clan ability works better if the Boros know who each other are; that, combined with the Boros's flavor in Ravnica/RtR, suggests some sort of ability keying off Boros coordination. The obvious suspect would be something based off of coordinated voting, but Bloodrush already fills that space and there hasn't been any discussion about coordinating Boros votes, so I'm guessing it has to do with coordinating night actions instead - and most of the design space I can think of for coordinating night actions would involve some sort of information about how many Boros targeted a player on a given night.
8. Tar: Why are you using oddly definitive language on scarbo, Togs, and AI ("Makes perfect sense if you're scum and know that Atog is town, though!", "You're scum. Get lynched.") when you've just switched off twice on Togs and AI? You say like you're sure they're scum, but then a few posts later you express self-doubt and then you're on to the next one. The continued conviction feels a bit off, if you understand what I'm saying.
I'm curious why you asked this? Because you should know the answer to this question: I keep my doubts to myself and project conviction into the thread. We've talked about this before, and I know you've looked at Redux Mirror which is an excellent example of this in action.
I like Rhand so far, even though I think he's tunneling on Sepiral too much. You've got to try and imagine how you'd feel if a significant wagon built up on you over your very first RVS post. And then not just keep it to how you personally would feel but imagine how someone else might. Like I said before, I can see where Sep. is coming from on that.
Proph: given that you have apparently admitted to a deliberate shift in playstyle from last game to this (without saying you were going to do so in the thread) what makes my vote on you so poor? Like, if one game you make it a point to mention how you like to look for odd RVS stuff to jump on and attack - which is more or less exactly what you said last game - and then you don't do that here, instead doing what appears to be the opposite, with no explanation, wouldn't that make for a reasonable case of raised eyebrows? And then, when specifically asked about it, and then you say "well, I did notice the thing, but I'm deliberately doing it different this game because it didn't work out so well last time" - again, wouldn't that at least make for a reasonable suspicion?
I don't even care so much if you ignore the vote - but you went out of your way to characterize it as "pretty poor" so, what would you say makes it so?
I have a tendency to dislike the short, hit and run posters. Snurfy maybe being the worst atm. The "you guys post too much" cry of dismay always seems to ring false to me. I am getting the bad vibes from AI now too.
I'll agree with this for the most part, except keep in mind I usually don't have time to do a big honking analysis. That's why a lot of my posts are just a blurb expressing how I feel at the moment.
Something just dawned on me. We're playing right into the cards of scum with all the guild claims.
All the non-Gruul that haven't claimed yet: please don't do it.
Especially the remaining Orzhov need to keep silent.
It is good that the abilities are public, but not good that the players having them are outed too.
We don't really need to worry about the guild abilities outing- Gruul was necessary to avoid quicklynches, and its to the Boros' advantage to claim. However, I think that the Orzhov ability should have only been outed under duress if at all, and the members of the Simic should use their better judgement before outing. (The fact it hasn't been outed yet probably means that it shouldn't be). I agree we have to be careful about laying all of this out in the open.
Quote from Rhand »
Okay, I'm probably completely wrong about Sepi then. Thx Az.
Also, the other question was also me. I found it weird that you put Sepi there and not just nowhere like all other nullreads.
I'll take another look at Vishamon. What's your take on Atog?
Don't like this at all. Pretty much just /barns everything Az has to say.
Quote from 7hawk77 »
Tar
Sep was self aware and his vocabulary on how he says things felt off. His actions seem desperate and not helpful.
For these reasons I think he is scum.
The people that were on his wagon I think are town for gut/meta reasons.
Having people on his wagon that are town doesn't make him scum, his behavior does. If I felt uneasy about some people on his wagon it would be setting off alarms. This was not the case.
That being said, lynching him without getting a reveal day 1 is a waste.
So this boils down to "Sep was selfaware" which is pretty much /barning Rhand's case, and then calls his wagon (which wasn't much of a wagon at that point) town. This is a little odd- IGMEOY.
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Quote from Togs »
Az made a nice catch in 190. I want to lynch Proph, Taredas, or AI toDay
I love how opportunistic this is. No mention about the Vish thing either.
More votes on Togs, please.
/barn this. I could get behind the Togs wagon. Since I'm Gruul and he's dangerously close to lynch, I'll drop a FoS:Atog for now, but I definitely support lynching him.
In here, he says "don't like this at all" to Rhand, and IGMEOYs hawk without a vote. He later drops a FoS on Togs, even though Rhand and hawk are already on the wagon:
I find snurfy/Killjoy scummy (I'd be voting him right now if not for the combination of Killjoy's recent replacement and scarbo's existence), but more for this post (which I thought I'd brought up before a few days back, but apparently not? Must have deleted it by accident):
That's in response to my "Snurfy, are you scum?" (after he ignored it the first time and I asked why he had ignored it). Instead of answering why he ignored it the first time, he responded to the original question; moreover, he gives the exact same answer that KoolKoal gave in WitchHunt (after I'd already linked to the post where I explained the gambit in WitchHunt), and puts the "no" in enormous letters which feels really odd from a townie.
Taredas: OK now you're intentionally misrepresenting my posts. Not once have I used this "heated language" you speak of when addressing Atog directly. So I'm going to insist that you iso my posts and back up that garbage with some quotes.
Yes Atog claimed scum and basically proved AI is town with his piss poor excuse for an attack, though apparently I'm the only one who has realized this.
No, you haven't called Atog scum directly - but you have very clearly attacked him with very strong language in the thread on multiple occasions, and Atog can see that - so why the sudden neutral tone? I could see the point of that question if you were being less aggressive towards Atog, or if you directed it towards hawk rather than Atog - but it doesn't make sense in light of the rest of your comments on Atog.
And for that matter... if you are sure enough about Atog being scum that you are willing to use language like "claimed scum" and "scumlord 2015" to attack him, why AREN'T you calling him scum to his face? I don't see how that comes from a town mindset.
So, what did the mass-claim discussion and/or outcome in the previous game look like?
I can see a pretty potentially disastrous issue from NOT having one of the guilds claim in a limited fashion right up front, but haven't the slightest idea what sort of counter-measures may or may not be in place. To the point that if a claim of some kind doesn't go forward, it probably results in two townie deaths.
why do you come into the game fretting over mass guild claiming without laying down a vote? doesn't sound like you're interested in a mass claim but more what everyone else thinks about it.
I don't like Proph's #48. Behavioral interaction between 2 players is an important scumhunting tool and proph's whole point doesn't make sense. In fact, I find it troubling that he's more focused on clearing town than finding scum. AI's response to hans is the correct one, proph's just reeks.
unvote FoS Proph (Going with this instead of voting for the time being)
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
you mean you want someone else to do it.
Vote: zindabad
I'm pretty sure sepiriel meant for 92/93 to be a self-defense but it sounds like flailing
I really want to lynch Proph, see him flip scum and then lynch Sepiriel, Dkings and ZDS because they're his buddies.
Interaction analysis is itching but useless without a flip
Keeping my vote on Sepiriel though because he's also scum and needs to come in and freak out on the hugeness of his wagon before I move my vote to Proph.
Yay for me having fun with mafia again.
this, from the king of anti-linking-players-day-1?
And I'm flattered that you took the time to find that quote of mine in the middle of another game. I can't vote you now lol.
Yeah, tried to find it but only got posts from you in The Walking Dead and Hayate where you applied the concept. Had to spend a little time with the search function to find that post.
Getting town vibes from Sepiriel as well - his long post has a lot of natural surprise and confusion, and his wagon is probably bad. The speed of it felt unnatural, and most of it felt like bandwagonning for the sake of bandwagonning.
Quote from Sepiriel »
1-up (because i cant find the thumbs up emoticon)
cringes
I'm pretty sure the scum are just laughing their heads off while we vomit out our role information.
your town read on sepiriel is baffling.
>>i will not be claiming my guild because of the combination of reasons and something else.
I find this post highly questionable, for a few reasons. Part of that is tone - the way scarbo attacks here feels like potshots without any actual belief behind them - but, more importantly, scarbo's comments on hansanator and Sepiriel . Scarbo swipes at hans's early post then concludes that hans is too dumb to be scum (while leaving himself an escape hatch) - I'm not sure why a townie would ask about hans's opening post andand write him off as town in the same post (I'd expect a "cut that out!", yes, but a question?), but it makes sense if scarbo is scum and either leaving himself an opening to turn on a weak townie later or coaching a buddy. Meanwhile, Sepiriel had a major wagon around this time, and scarbo indicates that he has a scum read on Sepiriel ("scumpost", "flailing")... but votes Zindabad instead without explanation? That looks like scum pushing a wagon without actually committing their vote.
Hear me out. I hate Day 1s. There's a lot of players and very little information, which leads to a lack of focus, which leads to a day that can last 1000 posts, which is a pain in the rear to analyze later in the game. I don't know what Obzedat does, but it if has anything to do with Immortal Servitude, what's the usefulness in keeping it around? Maybe someone is controlling its vote, but is that really that helpful? It's just one vote. And why waste a vig shot on it when it could be immune to night actions? And why potentially wait until later in the game when we're down to the wire to waste a lynch on it?
If anyone has a good reason we shouldn't lynch it today, I'm totally open to hearing it. But so far all I've seen is "No that's not good idea- let's do it later or vig it" with no substantiating reasons. At first I thought it could be a hydra, but I don't have any reason to believe that. So convince me I'm wrong.
I guess that's a fair point. If not Obzedat, Atog is best. His disappearance just makes me more convinced. I don't wait AI.
Take a good look at this series of posts.
Scarbo starts out by pushing the Atog wagon and implying that he likes the votes on it, and specifically brings up the Obzedat vote as an example.
Then, presumably after looking at Cythare's comment on lynching Obzedat possibly removing Immortal Servitude, he seizes on that and proposes lynching Obzedat instead.
That doesn't make sense. First, he's using "but we might mislynch, so let's not lynch a player!" logic in 371. That's been debunked for years, since all No Lynching D1 does is give the scum a free kill - I could see that coming from a townie who's new or just bad, but scarbo's not new and judging by what I saw in Wu-Tang he's not bad as town either. Moreover, the reasoning looks a lot like fearmongering - scarbo is playing up the threat of Obzedat ("could be immune to night actions!", might waste a lynch later) and downplaying the risk of lynching it ("just one vote"). In addition, scarbo seems fairly convinced that Atog is scum at this point, D1 or no... so why is he pushing an Obzedat lynch over Atog? I don't see why a townie would scumread a player strongly enough to push their wagon in that way, then suddenly back off when Cythare proposed the Obzedat lynch.
On the other hand, it does make sense if scarbo's is scum trying to push through an effective No Lynch, especially given the way he argues for an Obzedat lynch.
I don't share which people I have a town read on until I have to -- I prefer to focus entirely on scumhunting. What you should have said is "Nothing in your posts indicated that you had a scum read on Vish" which is more indicative of my thoughts on his alignment than anything else.
The bait thing has been my strat this entire game, I'm pretty pleased with what it turned up as well.
This feels a lot like a slip.
Scarbo is scum for this post alone (everything above is just gravy). See, I went back and checked some more games (1), and I did find an example of how scarbo treats possible slips as town, namely Hayate the Combat Butler:
The problem swishh is I find alot of your reasons for pressuring is off and it just feels like you are all over the place. Voting bigtraine shows that you have intention to lynch him because he is scum, rhand replaces in and in one post, you clear bigtraine rhand and back up where his vote goes with your own? Scum are not going to feel threatened by your schizophrenic play.
Anyways, I'm going to look in to this more later and I'll give my top 2 lynch picks.
In Hayate the Combat Butler, when scarbo saw a possible slip, he tried to confirm whether or not it was a slip before going on the attack. To quote scarbo in that very game:
Nononono. I didn't call it a slip. I tried to corner him first. Kosa called it a slip:
Here, scarbo just throws out "this might be a slip" without trying to prove that it is a slip, making no attempt to lock down Atog and prove whether or not it is a slip - which is exactly how scarbo accused other players of scumslipping in both Disney Villains and Porn Stars:
Post 815 is an arguable slip: accusing Duplicity of "painting him town." There's a lot to be said about this, and I want Rodemy to respond.
!1) - I thought scarbo had attacked a player for a possible scumslip twice in Disney Villains (a townie D3 and me D4), but when I double-checked to dig out the quotes it turned out that I was misremembering and I was actually the person who accused another player (ironically, scarbo) of scumslipping D3 in that game. Which is informative in its own right, because I also didn't try to lock down scarbo before pointing out why his post was a slip and I was also scum that game.
[snip]To my mind, that would be the logical course for you to take - to regard it as nothing more than a recommendation from a teammate, and not as an insult to your intelligence or ability.
Most of my posting has been from mobile this game, and Curse is only getting worse on the mobile platform it seems like. Load times are slow, popup ads are actually MORE abundant than they used to be, and my tolerance is lower.
So I honestly have not even read everything. The big posts I mostly skim unless I'm looking for something specific, and the main big wagons whenever I ask for more info on them, I usually get the response "if you read them they'd be obvscum" or something to that effect, but the people they are talking about are the things I DO actually go out and specifically read because I don't understand it.
Basically, the answers to my questions have been useless, and Curse mobile sucks, and nobody was listening to me anyway when I was trying, people are posting things without showing any of their thought process then acting like you're stupid for not knowing exactly what they're thinking, and bleh.
I understood the Gruul mechanic to be one where Gruul votes in succession counted more. No one else was on Proph.
I don't see a reason to take any risk in my purely anti-town clan ability.
Right, because the Vish comment earlier was a bait test. But you said you liked your vote on hans, and when you proclaim that scum team = {p1, p2, ..., pn} the immediate implication is that there are n players on the scum team. It's not reaching. It's modus ponens.
What I meant by saying Scumteam is "There is nothing that would contradict my three current scum reads being on the same team", not "I am reading the 17 players not listed here as town." It's non sequitur.
Sure but you didn't question AI. You didn't even point out anything you found scummy.
Quote from AI »
Under threat of dying a painful death, please explain what you see in Az's "catch," as you so put it, and why it suddenly makes you want to lynch me.
Quote from Me »
The vote + the phrase "scum sensing blood in the water" is what did it. If Vish really was, he'd be voting for me instead.
OK so what do you think? [About Zindabad]
I don't want to lynch him.
Quote from Axelrod »
Again, where's the trap, and when did he spring it?
In the very next line, when I asked proph of his opinion of vish. I was hoping to catch him badly committing to that wagon as well. In retrospect, I may have been too cavalier in interpreting his response, which basically amounted to 'meh.' I think if he was scum he would've said something like "I think you're both scum and you're trying to bus him" in which case he'd have been caught.
Thing is, that's not the only strike against him. He's also played the "I'm low-hanging fruit" card. Which is a bit weird, in that, he seemed to be saying that he expected the scum to go after him as an easy target, but he apparently also thought that he would get scum to jump on Vishamon by pretending to support that wagon?
The reasoning that I stated is that scum would be likely to jump on his and my wagons early.
Quote from proph »
Anyone care to comment re: KoolKoal?
I think he's town. He seems levelheaded and reasonable. #634 is the most telling, he's honest about not having strong reads and just lists the weak gut reads that he does have. I think a scum player in his position would have felt pressured into making up a strong scum read on someone.
Seriously people, just reread AI on these two pages.
Top of 16, Azreal makes a good post about how scum-mindset he is, AI ignores him and flings more mud.
further down, I misread and misrep his post, and he jumps on me. I call him out on the fact that he jumped on my in a scummy way and he ignores and hides from it.
He's only posting what he thinks will save him, rather that scumhunting, or getting on a wagon that isn't stalled, or anything.
We need to have time to discuss a claim, its time to get it together.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
At this point, I don't yet have more to provide on AE than to note that his posting style is very much different from the last two games, in which I hard town-read him, and that it's precisely what I'd expect from a town AE who isn't sure how to fake a convincing townie mindset on a wide array of topics. It reads very much like Zinda was correct that he's using his suspicions of Zind as a crutch to avoid contributing on any other topic.
PBPA will be on the schedule if I survive long enough. But for the moment, I'm more interested in hitting Cythare.
The one possibility that could make me wrong about AI is the MTGS Redux phenomena, where the interactions become so adversarial that false scum positives start occurring, plus some of the original tells could theoretically be simple mannerisms, and his detachment from the game could in turn produce other false positives such as inconsistency in his mindset and reads, through inattention. But it feels like I'm reaching to find that many separate and distinct townie explanations for all the various tells that have turned up in his history.
Do you think your vote on AI should shield you from being accused by anyone who has a scum read on him?
No, I just think at least acknowledging the awkwardness of it would have been the town thing to do.
"Would have been"? Usually it's scum who try to do the things town "would have" done. Townies just do them.
If this isn't a slip, I would really like you to tell us more about your mindset, and why you felt the need to do "the town thing".
...
I'd like to see KK to respond to this. (I have some things to say about it, but I'll wait)
Scum Zindabad will not commit, but will throw mud in hopes the town will run with it. He thinks he detected something but does not give any details. In fact there was no panick from AI. He was in favor of a guild claim and also said he was not Gruul
No
I agree and could get behind this wagon.
Signals willingness to jump on Vish, explains read on Zinda as coming from Zind's non-committal attack on AI.
Fine for this stage of the game, but I'm a little curious as to what might have caused him to latch on so rabidly for the rest of the game day.
@ZDS
Something I remember. It's been sooo long now since we've played. But also notice how quiet he's been.
This is true, he hates being scum. If so, that 1st post by Zindabad could have been a weak buss attempt to fall back on. But Azrael, why the ? after Vis' weak town
Gruul ar not opting out of anything. They are clearly stating intentions. If that's not the case and later in the game use that excuse then you can chalk them up as scum.
You come back with this? How long are you going to try and figure this out for? You have this long absence and all you've been doing is trying to figure this out? What's your take on AI? Do you still think there is something with his panicking reaction early on?
What's his take on AI? He made something up about him and hoped anyone would run with it. Now he ignores that fact. He's involved by throwing mud and smearing people. He's not scumhunting, he's discrediting people. I don't see a town mindset coming from him.
Hmm. I can see this potentially being a legitimate concern by AE.
What the hell is this? It's a joke. Using a bunch of words to say a whole lot of nothing in an attempt to make it look like you are saying something.
So a player is showing questionable attentiveness in the thread and is mischaracterizing you, but you just let him slide right by? Why wouldn't you question that behavior? I did that to Zindabad when he made false statements about me in a game and it led to his lynch. He was scum, which is why this whole interaction or lack of it, stood out to me.
Lots of questions in AE's playstyle this game, most of them revolving around the same players (AI and Zind) and series of interactions. Most every time he posts at this stage of the game, it's to reopen/continue along that same topic.
Not at all. My initial read on him was at the beginning of the game. There was no issue with keeping up. Besides, when he does post he recaps pretty well with some follow ups so...
Ok that's fair. But I have a good read on how Zindabad acts.
Time for them to start voting. End this day. It's gone on long enough.
No I figured I'd lay off you a bit because you kept fussing about it. That's what I do, I tunnel. When you find a scum why not stick to him? Others have expressed their thoughts about you so if they want to vote they will.
Not a misrep, you were implying AI panicked. You wanted townies to jump on that. So you were misrepn' him. Saying something, or implying something that was not true, falsifying.
Well lets look, this is what AI says after Az claims the Gruul mech.
"Oh that is interesting. I am not Gruul but support a guild claim."
Then replies to Proph saying is anti-town. Then later claims his guild. He never was against it. Your reaching for things.
I love how you say you have taken me apart so many times. I'll just leave that one alone. If that helps you sleep at night, have at it.
Declares tunneling as part of his meta, something he doesn't see as problematic. Hmm.
Funny, I'm not backtracking anything. Just waiting for the town to get their act together and start voting you. If not I'll wait till day 2 to lynch you. I'm fine.
Now to what you quoted you commented on. What of it? I did post he said it was anti town. What's your point?
Funny Zindabad. Why leave the main point out of the quote?
Remember? I bolded the comparison. You conveniently left it out. I'm comparing the thought process, not how I nailed you. Your making this to easy.
Time for Zindabad to hang.
Large font is likely a town tell in this instance.
I'm downgrading AE back to weak scum. He hasn't posted sufficiently on any other topics for a dccisive case or read at this point. I do think he looks much worse on a full thread reread than he does in a PBPA format, however. On a full thread reread, you can see just how badly he's ignoring everything else that's going on, yet still commenting on very fine details related to the 1-2 people he's chosen to engage with.
It's SOP to wait until you're at L-2 for a claim, but if you're adamant about cutting to the chase, I won't stop you.
Ok now I'm sold. Town doesn't want to claim. Scum likes to claim when they have put work into making a convincing one.
You have got to be kidding me. It's almost like you've never seen sarcasm on the Internet before. /sarcasm
@ZDS: I'm willing to take another look at hawk and attack or defend him as I see fit, but now is not the time when I feel like investing energy into this thread.
If Day Two is anything like Day One, I will continue to be bitter. Better hope we actually have some leads after a flip or two.
It's SOP to wait until you're at L-2 for a claim, but if you're adamant about cutting to the chase, I won't stop you.
How does it look like I'm calling for an early claim? I'm calling for people to vote you to L-2.
Quote from ZDS »
1) Is there a particular reason why you let nothing of this transpire?
2) So Atog's lurking simultaneously means you don't believe his defense and need to re-read him. I must be misunderstanding something because it sounds like a contradiction.
1. I don't understand what you're asking here
2. No, Tog's lurking had nothing to do with why I disbelieved his defense. You asked me if I believed the defense, and at the time he gave it and I formed my opinion on it the lurking hadn't started yet. His lurking both makes me wary that he's scum trying to lurk away from the spotlight, and gives me less to go on to figure out if he is town, which makes me wary that my first impression from my one readthrough is wrong. Does that make more sense?
Quote from ZDS »
Is it that difficult to not be convoluted? It's not a matter of length, it's more a matter a grammar. It's about saying things directly.
It's just my natural tendency. It's the way I speak and talk to. I thought this might help
Quote from ZDS »
Yes. In the first case you are at fault (and so is everybody who was wrong along with you), in the second case nobody is at fault.
Agree to disagree. Some people might think that way, but I don't.
For example: The fact that I've been coasting along in this game is completely my fault, because no matter what other circumstances there are, none of them caught me by surprise. I joined this game even though I knew it would be difficult for me to hit the standard of posting I normally hold myself to.
Quote from ZDS »
My bad, I guess I used the wrong words. I meant the way Atog used Vishamon to defend himself. Ie, this exchange (paraphrasing):
"Atog Accuser: Atog's vote on Vishamon was very bad!
Atog: I know, I was never serious about it and I wanted to catch scum with it"
Oh, in that case I think I successfully answered this in my last response to you.
Quote from ZDS »
Hawk didn't derail your wagon, but other than that, ok.
Why the defeatism, though? Your wagon is still in its infancy.
Well even if you disagree that he derailed its starting momentum, my point about him not jumping on a promising looking wagon is still true.
Its not defeatism. It was a quickly growing wagon and I've seen plenty of sudden claims and lynches in the past, especially with stalled games. And, in terms of votes, this game is definitely stalled.
Quote from ZDS »
I will admit there are no obvious signs that you two are linked together. This doesn't make either of you less worth pursuing.
As for whether I have doubts, I'll mention then if and when they are strong enough to make me reconsider my reads.
ok
Quote from ZDS »
"Would have been"? Usually it's scum who try to do the things town "would have" done. Townies just do them.
Right, and you didn't. Which is my whole point.
Quote from ZDS »
If this isn't a slip, I would really like you to tell us more about your mindset, and why you felt the need to do "the town thing".
I don't . We were talking about how what you did wasn't a town thing. I don't know if you got mixed up here or what.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Well that was a bust... i tried to do a bit of a look on Obzedat, I thought i had something early on but midway through the pattern dissapeared, then a possibility came up but it becomes pure speculation and not one i think helps much anyways... sigh... back to square 1
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
If you're genuinely feeling that you're going to be in a bad mood and fail to contribute for the rest of the game because of it, you should request replacement.
If you're doing this as a tactic to defuse pressure, I don't know that it's good sportsmanship either.
The act of someone making a case against you should not result in what we're seeing here.
@Cythare: Can you answer my question on the bottom of page 16?
Quote from Taredas »
I'm curious why you asked this? Because you should know the answer to this question: I keep my doubts to myself and project conviction into the thread. We've talked about this before, and I know you've looked at Redux Mirror which is an excellent example of this in action.
Fair enough - it just felt unnatural.
Quote from ZDS »
I disagree. Weren't you the one complaining earlier that he was ignoring pressure?
That was before, when he was talking about hawk. He only really started defending himself once you asked him questions and he started to respond.
--
This is pretty much a do nothing post because I'm not sure where to go from here. People don't seem to be biting on a KoolKoal lynch and the other two lynch candidates are on Togs and AI, both of which I disagree on. I'm willing to move my vote to AI to get the game moving but I hate the fact that KoolKoal is on the AI wagon. At the moment, I just want a flip to happen - nothing has been happen for a long time now. I hate the fact that I'm "turning my brain off" per se, but I think I agree with Rhand's logic here of "testing" Azrael (even though I have a mild town read on him already due to conviction). Thoughts?
This has been confusing because AZ and Scarbo were my biggest town reads towards the end of this day and there are reasons enough to lynch like 5 players. Their viewpoints conflict but I think I trust AZs read more.
meanwhile I dislike AI'S reaction to the pressure he's had. It's just dismissal and slinging dirt without even trying to figure out who the scum is. Definitely feels like a caught scum that is too lazy to fight the lynch.
Its odd tho, AI's behavior has been pretty much constant since before, yet you are just NOW talking about his response to pressure. Also you are being awfully nicer to AI when you apparently like to belittle scum. Feels opportunistic, again.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Koolkoal post doesn't do much for me either way.
I'll go check out Iji.
That was just mixing up your name with Snurfy. Snurfy is scum, you're town.
9: This is null. I'd thought it was townie initially, but can see this coming from either alignment. I'm not sure if this is something Az usually does.
31: This reads fine, but now I'm paranoid.
183: Vishamon-related stuff is weird, but not a tell.
193: Subtle mudslinging at Proph? I'm not sure here, since Proph is firmly in Az's town pile.
344: Az's case on AI. After rereading, the case reads pretty compelling, but a lot of his points don't add up to a scum read after I go through them, as a lot of it is based on barbed language, which in my experience comes with the territory. I recognize that there are other things here - Az's noted language tells, the vigging, and the endorsement - but I keep circling back to how Az has pointed out that zindabad's barbed language is not scummy, yet AI's is.
442: In contrast to the AI PBPA, Az's PBPA of Atog is pretty meager, pointing out a few town tells and leaving it be. AI's PBPA included dissonant posts that went against his read or were null, but for Atog, he leaves it at a few posts that align with his stance.
457: Steps back a bit to "could come from either alignment" after I question him. He follows up a bit later that a lack of scumtells means Atog is probably town, which is fair in theory, but not great.
After some other related discussion on PBPAs, Azrael admits that PBPAs prove more that the poster can write good PBPAs and that it's the little things that matter. AI's "little things" still don't read scummy to me, and the maneuvering Azrael does is something that I dislike. That said, I'm not in the best position to push this, so
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Why would you say this?
Different one, still.
x1000
So am I scum, or not?
You seem more concerned with blowback from pushing this, than you do with actually catching scum or making your stance clear...
This isn't mud-slinging, this is me complimenting Proph on graduating from feeling out of his league, to having more detailed, well-thought out reads on players than I've ever seen any player have, that early in the day. I'm saying he just made my list of people who seriously impressed me.
Yes.
More concerned? I am at the point where I think you're scum. I just don't think it's going to be possible to lynch you Day 1, and I'm battling feeling checked out for the Day. snurfjoy: Snurfy's posts read terribly, and I don't like that KJ has disappeared.
Sir Karn: Haven't paid attention, so would have to read. I traditionally have trouble reading him, because truncated play is something he does as both sides.
AE: I think AE is town, largely because I dislike zindabad and I can't see them being scum together.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
The sources of AI's discontent are...boredom?
Doing any given thing X can be either scummy or townish. The determinative factor is if there's an evident motivation behind why you did that thing.
I don't see why AI would have been bored with this game. No one else has been bored with the game. It's moving along at a fair clip, there are plenty of wagons, lots of people were excited for it and looking forward to joining it. Beyond that, he doesn't actually sound bored, he just sounds pissed off with the world. It's far more likely he's "bored" with the game because it's well-known that he hates playing as scum, and he's getting repeatedly reamed on day one by yours truly.
I can see that as an honest mistake. You're still scum though.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
But I am naturally scummy. It's an ongoing problem.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Because the first four points in your PBPA were simple summary, with no actual reads attached.
There were only three other points in your PBPA.
The first amounts to your disagreeing with my case on AI. That's a scum tell because...?
Your 2nd post amounts to pointing out that I didn't do a full PBPA on Atog, but simply pointed out the posts I felt were relevant to his defense. ZDS had JUST done a full PBPA, and I was replying to it. So...that's a scum tell because...?
Your third post concludes that my read on Atog as probable town for not having any scum tells is "fair in theory, but not great". That's a scum tell because...?
Now now. I wouldn't say you're a naturally scummy person at all. It seems like a pretty isolated event, to me. *beams*
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Catching up as quickly as possible though.
Funny Zindabad. Why leave the main point out of the quote?
Remember? I bolded the comparison. You conveniently left it out. I'm comparing the thought process, not how I nailed you. Your making this to easy.
Time for Zindabad to hang.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
@Whoever is attacking me because scum hates long Day ones: they don't. Long Day ones work against town because they make rereading a thougher chore.
And you've somehow failed to consider that I might lose interest in a game in which everything I say is twisted and used against me by someone who has no idea how to read me and yet whose word is treated as tears from heaven. Fascinating.
Educated guess, hence the potentially. At least one Boros member has mentioned that the Boros clan ability works better if the Boros know who each other are; that, combined with the Boros's flavor in Ravnica/RtR, suggests some sort of ability keying off Boros coordination. The obvious suspect would be something based off of coordinated voting, but Bloodrush already fills that space and there hasn't been any discussion about coordinating Boros votes, so I'm guessing it has to do with coordinating night actions instead - and most of the design space I can think of for coordinating night actions would involve some sort of information about how many Boros targeted a player on a given night.
---
I'm curious why you asked this? Because you should know the answer to this question: I keep my doubts to myself and project conviction into the thread. We've talked about this before, and I know you've looked at Redux Mirror which is an excellent example of this in action.
I find snurfy/Killjoy scummy (I'd be voting him right now if not for the combination of Killjoy's recent replacement and scarbo's existence), but more for this post (which I thought I'd brought up before a few days back, but apparently not? Must have deleted it by accident):
That's in response to my "Snurfy, are you scum?" (after he ignored it the first time and I asked why he had ignored it). Instead of answering why he ignored it the first time, he responded to the original question; moreover, he gives the exact same answer that KoolKoal gave in WitchHunt (after I'd already linked to the post where I explained the gambit in WitchHunt), and puts the "no" in enormous letters which feels really odd from a townie.
---
Let me throw your words back in your face:
No, you haven't called Atog scum directly - but you have very clearly attacked him with very strong language in the thread on multiple occasions, and Atog can see that - so why the sudden neutral tone? I could see the point of that question if you were being less aggressive towards Atog, or if you directed it towards hawk rather than Atog - but it doesn't make sense in light of the rest of your comments on Atog.
And for that matter... if you are sure enough about Atog being scum that you are willing to use language like "claimed scum" and "scumlord 2015" to attack him, why AREN'T you calling him scum to his face? I don't see how that comes from a town mindset.
---
Speaking of that, the rest of why scarbo is scum:
I find this post highly questionable, for a few reasons. Part of that is tone - the way scarbo attacks here feels like potshots without any actual belief behind them - but, more importantly, scarbo's comments on hansanator and Sepiriel . Scarbo swipes at hans's early post then concludes that hans is too dumb to be scum (while leaving himself an escape hatch) - I'm not sure why a townie would ask about hans's opening post andand write him off as town in the same post (I'd expect a "cut that out!", yes, but a question?), but it makes sense if scarbo is scum and either leaving himself an opening to turn on a weak townie later or coaching a buddy. Meanwhile, Sepiriel had a major wagon around this time, and scarbo indicates that he has a scum read on Sepiriel ("scumpost", "flailing")... but votes Zindabad instead without explanation? That looks like scum pushing a wagon without actually committing their vote.
Take a good look at this series of posts.
Scarbo starts out by pushing the Atog wagon and implying that he likes the votes on it, and specifically brings up the Obzedat vote as an example.
Then, presumably after looking at Cythare's comment on lynching Obzedat possibly removing Immortal Servitude, he seizes on that and proposes lynching Obzedat instead.
That doesn't make sense. First, he's using "but we might mislynch, so let's not lynch a player!" logic in 371. That's been debunked for years, since all No Lynching D1 does is give the scum a free kill - I could see that coming from a townie who's new or just bad, but scarbo's not new and judging by what I saw in Wu-Tang he's not bad as town either. Moreover, the reasoning looks a lot like fearmongering - scarbo is playing up the threat of Obzedat ("could be immune to night actions!", might waste a lynch later) and downplaying the risk of lynching it ("just one vote"). In addition, scarbo seems fairly convinced that Atog is scum at this point, D1 or no... so why is he pushing an Obzedat lynch over Atog? I don't see why a townie would scumread a player strongly enough to push their wagon in that way, then suddenly back off when Cythare proposed the Obzedat lynch.
On the other hand, it does make sense if scarbo's is scum trying to push through an effective No Lynch, especially given the way he argues for an Obzedat lynch.
Scarbo is scum for this post alone (everything above is just gravy). See, I went back and checked some more games (1), and I did find an example of how scarbo treats possible slips as town, namely Hayate the Combat Butler:
In Hayate the Combat Butler, when scarbo saw a possible slip, he tried to confirm whether or not it was a slip before going on the attack. To quote scarbo in that very game:
Here, scarbo just throws out "this might be a slip" without trying to prove that it is a slip, making no attempt to lock down Atog and prove whether or not it is a slip - which is exactly how scarbo accused other players of scumslipping in both Disney Villains and Porn Stars:
!1) - I thought scarbo had attacked a player for a possible scumslip twice in Disney Villains (a townie D3 and me D4), but when I double-checked to dig out the quotes it turned out that I was misremembering and I was actually the person who accused another player (ironically, scarbo) of scumslipping D3 in that game. Which is informative in its own right, because I also didn't try to lock down scarbo before pointing out why his post was a slip and I was also scum that game.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
@Taredas: I'm not reading that. Clean up your posts.
So I honestly have not even read everything. The big posts I mostly skim unless I'm looking for something specific, and the main big wagons whenever I ask for more info on them, I usually get the response "if you read them they'd be obvscum" or something to that effect, but the people they are talking about are the things I DO actually go out and specifically read because I don't understand it.
Basically, the answers to my questions have been useless, and Curse mobile sucks, and nobody was listening to me anyway when I was trying, people are posting things without showing any of their thought process then acting like you're stupid for not knowing exactly what they're thinking, and bleh.
And I still think prophy is scum.
Vote: Prophylaxis
If you really mean that, I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm just trying to play the game as best I'm able.
I don't see a reason to take any risk in my purely anti-town clan ability.
What I meant by saying Scumteam is "There is nothing that would contradict my three current scum reads being on the same team", not "I am reading the 17 players not listed here as town." It's non sequitur.
In the very next line, when I asked proph of his opinion of vish. I was hoping to catch him badly committing to that wagon as well. In retrospect, I may have been too cavalier in interpreting his response, which basically amounted to 'meh.' I think if he was scum he would've said something like "I think you're both scum and you're trying to bus him" in which case he'd have been caught.
The reasoning that I stated is that scum would be likely to jump on his and my wagons early.
I think he's town. He seems levelheaded and reasonable. #634 is the most telling, he's honest about not having strong reads and just lists the weak gut reads that he does have. I think a scum player in his position would have felt pressured into making up a strong scum read on someone.
Top of 16, Azreal makes a good post about how scum-mindset he is, AI ignores him and flings more mud.
further down, I misread and misrep his post, and he jumps on me. I call him out on the fact that he jumped on my in a scummy way and he ignores and hides from it.
He's only posting what he thinks will save him, rather that scumhunting, or getting on a wagon that isn't stalled, or anything.
We need to have time to discuss a claim, its time to get it together.
Ok now I'm sold. Town doesn't want to claim. Scum likes to claim when they have put work into making a convincing one.
@Atog: that was not a copy-paste of what I said.
PBPA will be on the schedule if I survive long enough. But for the moment, I'm more interested in hitting Cythare.
The one possibility that could make me wrong about AI is the MTGS Redux phenomena, where the interactions become so adversarial that false scum positives start occurring, plus some of the original tells could theoretically be simple mannerisms, and his detachment from the game could in turn produce other false positives such as inconsistency in his mindset and reads, through inattention. But it feels like I'm reaching to find that many separate and distinct townie explanations for all the various tells that have turned up in his history.
Splendiferous Vote Count 1.10 (as of post 830)
Atogaholic (3): Cythare, AsianInvasion, Axelrod
AsianInvasion (3): KoolKoal, Azrael, Rhand
Scarbo (1): Taredas
Zindabad (2): Scarbo, Archmage Eternal
KoolKoal (3): Prophylaxis, ZeDorkSlipeur, dkingsland967
Sepiriel (1): 7hawk77
Azrael (1): Obzedat
Prophylaxis (1): Sir Karn
V/LA
Rhand - Until the heat death of the universe
Prod checks at the end of the day per usual. I'll be sort-of busy through tomorrow.
Not much here.
Not much here.
Not much here.
Initial vote isn't a problem.
Signals willingness to jump on Vish, explains read on Zinda as coming from Zind's non-committal attack on AI.
Fine for this stage of the game, but I'm a little curious as to what might have caused him to latch on so rabidly for the rest of the game day.
Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
Ok.
Ok.
Ok.
Hmm. I can see this potentially being a legitimate concern by AE.
Ok.
Lots of questions in AE's playstyle this game, most of them revolving around the same players (AI and Zind) and series of interactions. Most every time he posts at this stage of the game, it's to reopen/continue along that same topic.
Ok.
Ok.
Ok.
Ok.
Declares tunneling as part of his meta, something he doesn't see as problematic. Hmm.
Ok.
Large font is likely a town tell in this instance.
I'm downgrading AE back to weak scum. He hasn't posted sufficiently on any other topics for a dccisive case or read at this point. I do think he looks much worse on a full thread reread than he does in a PBPA format, however. On a full thread reread, you can see just how badly he's ignoring everything else that's going on, yet still commenting on very fine details related to the 1-2 people he's chosen to engage with.
Unvote
Vote: Atogaholic
You have got to be kidding me. It's almost like you've never seen sarcasm on the Internet before. /sarcasm
@ZDS: I'm willing to take another look at hawk and attack or defend him as I see fit, but now is not the time when I feel like investing energy into this thread.
If Day Two is anything like Day One, I will continue to be bitter. Better hope we actually have some leads after a flip or two.
1. I don't understand what you're asking here
2. No, Tog's lurking had nothing to do with why I disbelieved his defense. You asked me if I believed the defense, and at the time he gave it and I formed my opinion on it the lurking hadn't started yet. His lurking both makes me wary that he's scum trying to lurk away from the spotlight, and gives me less to go on to figure out if he is town, which makes me wary that my first impression from my one readthrough is wrong. Does that make more sense?
It's just my natural tendency. It's the way I speak and talk to. I thought this might help
Agree to disagree. Some people might think that way, but I don't.
For example: The fact that I've been coasting along in this game is completely my fault, because no matter what other circumstances there are, none of them caught me by surprise. I joined this game even though I knew it would be difficult for me to hit the standard of posting I normally hold myself to.
Oh, in that case I think I successfully answered this in my last response to you.
Well even if you disagree that he derailed its starting momentum, my point about him not jumping on a promising looking wagon is still true.
Its not defeatism. It was a quickly growing wagon and I've seen plenty of sudden claims and lynches in the past, especially with stalled games. And, in terms of votes, this game is definitely stalled.
ok
Right, and you didn't. Which is my whole point.
I don't . We were talking about how what you did wasn't a town thing. I don't know if you got mixed up here or what.
what?
If you're doing this as a tactic to defuse pressure, I don't know that it's good sportsmanship either.
The act of someone making a case against you should not result in what we're seeing here.
Fair enough - it just felt unnatural.
That was before, when he was talking about hawk. He only really started defending himself once you asked him questions and he started to respond.
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This is pretty much a do nothing post because I'm not sure where to go from here. People don't seem to be biting on a KoolKoal lynch and the other two lynch candidates are on Togs and AI, both of which I disagree on. I'm willing to move my vote to AI to get the game moving but I hate the fact that KoolKoal is on the AI wagon. At the moment, I just want a flip to happen - nothing has been happen for a long time now. I hate the fact that I'm "turning my brain off" per se, but I think I agree with Rhand's logic here of "testing" Azrael (even though I have a mild town read on him already due to conviction). Thoughts?
In other news, I'm sad that you now just want a flip to happen, when we still have the entirety of the extension left, but it is what it is.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
This has been confusing because AZ and Scarbo were my biggest town reads towards the end of this day and there are reasons enough to lynch like 5 players. Their viewpoints conflict but I think I trust AZs read more.
meanwhile I dislike AI'S reaction to the pressure he's had. It's just dismissal and slinging dirt without even trying to figure out who the scum is. Definitely feels like a caught scum that is too lazy to fight the lynch.
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