@Sepi - My beef, like I said, is with the defensiveness of your posts from the outset of the game and the way in which you called Chris scum and said you were sticking with it. You can say you were joking about the Chris thing, but it definitely does not read that way. And if you were, why were you joking and placing a vote when it was out of RVS?
Your reaction in 59 looks overly defensive. A lot of people that play mafia consider people saying, "I will catch up when they have free time," a scum tell. To me it looks like he pushed you to see your reaction and you reacted poorly IMO.
This is pretty much my normal behavior in mafia, a quick look at my prior games will show that i do that regardless of alignment.
This was something that should have been obvious a while ago actually... I do hate that you then ask about the nature of his plan, it reeks of subtle fishing.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
First, because thinking that TCM is town doesn't equate to thinking that he's right, and
Second, because no one, not even TCM, wants to end the day *yet*.
Sepi: What can I be fishing for by asking if his motivation is centered on a specific piece of public info? What private info can I possibly obtain from that?
Godot: I don't recall anyone actually being for the no lynch besides TCM. Who are you talking to?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Huntzilla can you please contribute some thoughts on who you are leaning towards as scum. I haven't seen a single ounce of effort put forward.. and you have posted a lot.
Did you already forget where you got the idea for Snurfy from? You /barned my vote. granted that was a few pages ago now. But to deliberately misrep that fact is a bit scummy itself.
After Chris asked his questions of Snurf, why are you still harping on the new guy? Looks like you are snacking on wee babes. Misreps and noob hunting... that equals scum in my book. Unvote
Vote Rodemy
It was my first post of the game. Others may have been getting more serious, but I didn't really have much to say, so I decided to make an RVS post and see where it lead. I have serious doubts that puddlejumper was being serious (if he was, then his argument has to rank up there as one of the worst PBPA's of all time) and so I thought a reply to a jokey post would also be considered jokey.
This is a pretty bad defense, I gotta say. But I hate anything that has to do with "seriousness" tones in text and context.
Telling you why I am for a no-lynch, defeats the purpose of a no-lynch: The biggest pro of a no-lynch is that the town basically gets to use it's strongest skillshots, with minimal fear of mafia interference. The odds of the mafia correctly nking a PR also are significantly lower. I am taking into account I will likely be targeted with at least one negative ability, and still felt no-lynch was correct (bear in mind, I suggested this before half the people made their first post)
I am perfectly ok continuing discussion, and analyzing people. I would just say at about 500+ posts, I would like to check in with that plan. I would also like zero claims, until it is determined at that time that everyone is either for or against a no lynch.
The mafia's odds are hitting a PR are 100%. As long as the kill is successful, a power role has to die because everyone has a power role. I'm quite sure no lynches are only beneficial to the town on odd number player days. Just because your role is nicer if we no lynch doesn't mean that's the best plan. Not only that, but claims are essential if we are to judge which power roles to protect and which to sacrifice. We can't be running up wagons and gaining no info because there's no threat of a claim. We'd be here for years.
Telling you why I am for a no-lynch, defeats the purpose of a no-lynch: The biggest pro of a no-lynch is that the town basically gets to use it's strongest skillshots, with minimal fear of mafia interference.
The town's strongest skillshot is the lynch. It's like a daily vig that ignores bulletproof and can't be roleblocked. This isn't just a bad plan, it's an anti-town plan.
vote TCM
He's wrong, not necessarily scum. Why would a scum TCM draw attention to himself in this way? Doesn't make sense.
@Sepi - My beef, like I said, is with the defensiveness of your posts from the outset of the game and the way in which you called Chris scum and said you were sticking with it. You can say you were joking about the Chris thing, but it definitely does not read that way. And if you were, why were you joking and placing a vote when it was out of RVS?
Your reaction in 59 looks overly defensive. A lot of people that play mafia consider people saying, "I will catch up when they have free time," a scum tell. To me it looks like he pushed you to see your reaction and you reacted poorly IMO.
This is pretty much my normal behavior in mafia, a quick look at my prior games will show that i do that regardless of alignment.
This was something that should have been obvious a while ago actually... I do hate that you then ask about the nature of his plan, it reeks of subtle fishing.
Self-meta is not admissible evidence in the court(mob) of mafia.
How is it subtle if it's in plain view? I would think everyone should be interested in why TCM feels he is so special that a No Lynch is the best course of action, when all previous experience tells us otherwise.
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Sepi: What can I be fishing for by asking if his motivation is centered on a specific piece of public info? What private info can I possibly obtain from that?
Simple, regardless of the answer youare asking him to confirm that he is alluding to the game mechanics, and while that is not damming it is however easy to see that whatever it is he is planning depends on two things a No Lynch D1 and has its justification on the First post.
@Chris: I was going to make a joke about you not wanting a Sep gimmick and me being here but then i decided not to since i really have nothing to follow it up with.
@Zionite: It's been a long while since i played with you, but i find it hilarious that in this site self-meta is not a valid defense but meta-analysis is consiered valid evidence by the mobs.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Seppel's drunk or high, what else is new.
Why can't TCM say right out why he wants a no-lynch? I think I'm starting to come around to his reasoning, but I don't see why there had to be all this smoke and mirrors around it.
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A mirror, a shield, a promise, a great distance, and a kind word-- five ways to avoid harm.
Um, Huntzilla, you unvoted Snrufy.. and then didn't post anything of use. Why is me pointing out that fact scummy?
You literally had no scum reads when i asked you that....
Sorry yes you did make that.. one... point. But then backed off of it so fast.... Again.. no effort.
Because you deliberately misrepped the fact that you stole your ONE SCUM READ from me. That's what is scummy. And then when it was pointed out that we should probably let Snurfy be for now, you didn't back off, and STILL hadn't backed off. So it appears for you to be targeting the new guy. And I have a soft spot for new guys, being fresh to the site myself.
The final point is, you haven't talked about your OTHER reads either...
But since you have been insistent, I will be the first dumbo to stick up a T/S day one with crap to go on.
1. Plowshares - Recently come back to site fro hiatus, mislynched and accused of being scummy even when he isn't, hence the Seppel and him banter. Leaning Town on him so far.
2. The Cold Monarch - So far getting the normal TCM vibe from him. Nothing major one way or another.
3. Antny223- Fight with Sepi felt Town vs Town. Feeling town vibes.
4. Killjoy - Very Town, this is the KJ I have seen consistently
5. Huntzilla- Super Town. Towniest of Towns. Most likely to be voted mayor of townville.
6. Sepiriel- Sepi seems town so far. Got into the normal day one squabble with fellow town mate. Cythare does not like though... hmm...
7. KamikazeArchon - Kami is quiet. Again. Nothing here yet.
8. Rodemy- Don't like Rodemy's strange calling me out and picking on Snurf.
9. Cythare- I am wary of Cythare. I will be keeping an eye here.
10. Sir Chris - More animated than I have seen him, but this is my first day one with Chris, so I am thinking this is excitement. Still has his very good logical approach that appeals to me. I will be listening to his advice a lot.
11. Seppel- Scares Me. Always is Scum. Always. See Plowshares buddying posts, but flip them around and that's how I feel about Seppel.
12. Zionite- Blind vote of me and then quickly off another direction (Rodemy). See where that all goes... .
13. Bur - Said she wanted to be scum. I am thinking she got her wish. Initial posts, and gone for a while. Lurktastic?
14. Puddle Jumper- Talks up experience. Good insights. Leaning on the town side.
15. ITF- This is my gut reaction. I am not sure I like ITF....
16. Waitingforgodot- Another newer player like myself. Like her attitude most of the time, comes across strange but I can follow her thought process... unless it is skydiving on drugs. Then she's lost me.
17. Snurfy8- Few pressured votes, did not fold under them. Seems ok for now.
18. Hunger - Good so far. Nothing major.
So there you go! A whole pile of nothing much going on, despite 7 pages.
If you want the tl;dr version:
ITF if you hate waffles you are going to hate me day one. That's just how I roll. I do not feign certainty if I do not feel it, and I feel there is little to be certain about day one. I plan to not just complain about the state of town, but obviously it was on my mind and there is little point in not saying things that are on my mind. You will find as the day and game progresses I am one of the more active folk around, I tend to cause trouble wherever I roam. I am sure something will stick out.
I have the day off, time to get some analyzing in.
Sir Chris: Lots of short posts. Clearly has some talent at this. I can't read him. There's a lot of little things I notice in his first several posts that read as being concerned about his survival, which leans scum, but then there's just about exactly enough uncertainty and concern about other people's alignments without seeming insincere to balance it out.
Huntzilla: overplays RVS a bit, stock reaction to NL plan, reacts with disdain to ITF pressure (town tell), votes for a /barner (town), talks around his justification for unvoting (tiny scum), more disdain for Zionite vote (iffy? starting to feel stock?), votes Rod for fakeness (townish), tosses out first T/S with zero provocation (pretty big town), defensive of snurfy (maybe scummy if linked?) If scum, is doing a very good job of faking the correct emotional reactions, however, very little effort to piece things together so far. Probably town though, doing the sheep thing.
Rodemy: super weak vote right after rvs on Chris (tiny scummish), misunderstands, tries to justify vote to push a wagon (townish), tries to justify vote to defend himself (scummish), claims to be random to defend himself (scummish), calls snurfy out for /barning (town), ignores Sepi and Antny's PBP war rather than trying to get involved (tiny townish for such an active player), shows concern about learning how not to act scummy (newbish, scummish), tries a push on Huntzilla based on a lack of Hunt scumhunting (town, legitimate point, if weak this early), throws around suspicion on Hunt, TCM, snurfy in rapid succession without connecting them (super town, given earlier posts). Sigh, I don't like it, but now I'm reading him as town. Just a couple of his posts are really good but I can't imagine him faking them, and all the other scummy stuff doesn't add up to enough to beat it.
Those are the three most frequent posters in the thread, I'll try to get some more analysis in later.
Unvote and I'll toss a Vote snurfy for good measure. I think this guy deserves a bit of a run up the ladder, see what happens.
1) YOU ARENT TALKING AS MUCH AS YOU DO IN GAMES WHERE YOURE TOWN
CASE CLOSED
I was the most active poster in Wu Tang in a game full of active posters.
That's a bad singular bullet point.
@ Puddle - I find it weird that survival should be thought as a scummy mindset, although I admit I have no idea what you're talking about in this case. Could you please point out some of these little things? I am interested in your observation skills.
I think your vote on snurfy is pretty trash though.
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2) SCUM TEND TO REFERENCE THEIR SCUM GAMES RATHER THAN THEIR TOWN GAMES
CASE DOUBLE CLOSED
AND WHAT IS UP WITH THIS HUNTZILLA GUY
MORE LIKE ****ZILLA AM I RIGHT
HE GIVES NEARLY NO READS (SCUM BEHAVIOR)
THEN RODEMY CALLS HIM OUT ON IT
AND ZILLA IS LIKE "HEY HEY DON'T LYNCH ME HERE'S MY READS"
FIRST OFF, LYNCH THAT ON SIGHT
UNVOTE, VOTE HUNTZILLA
SECONDLY, I'MMA BOLD SOME GARBAGE
1. Plowshares - Leaning Town on him SO FAR.
2. The Cold Monarch - SO FAR getting the normal TCM vibe from him.
6. Sepiriel- Sepi seems town SO FAR. [...] Cythare does not like though... HMM...
7. KamikazeArchon - Kami is quiet. Again. Nothing here YET
12. Zionite- Blind vote of me and then quickly off another direction (Rodemy). SEE WHERE THAT ALL GOES...
17. Snurfy8- Few pressured votes, did not fold under them. Seems ok FOR NOW.
18. Hunger - Good SO FAR. Nothing major.
ONE OR TWO RESPONSES LIKE "SO FAR" IN A T/S LIST ISN'T SCUMTASTIC.
ONCE YOU HIT THREE, THINGS GET REALLY QUESTIONABLE.
Ok so what are the possibilities...
Rhand - I'm town. I have the exact same role pm as Tanarin, except for the name.
Wildfire393 - town. Or drone. we know scum can redirect, making it logical that he's still alive.
LnGrrrR - can be anti-town. If wheat flips town, he should die. Role pm very similar to mine and Tanarin's, but the slight difference in it makes me wary. Tammy The Cold Monarch - with a miller and godfather around, I think he is legit. No interest in his lynch at this point.
Bur - probably really a mason
Wheat_Grinder - If the queen is real, he can be town. But hardly anyone besides him can be queen. Most probably scum.
Arianrhod - I think the miller claim is legit. I don't want to lymch him unless TCM flips anti-town.
DCIII - probably really a mason
Killjoy - proven double-voter, which is not a scum role.
Roles that are both confirmed and almost certainly town:
Wildfire393 - Vigilante
Bur - Mason
DCIII - Mason
Hansanator - Doctor (I've heard of a scum Doc before, but I can't see them protecting me in the same night that a scum!redirector makes me try to kill myself)
Killjoy - Doublevoter
Grey Area (from most to least townie):
Rhand - Vanilla (alt universe). Play has been townie, but there's still the off chance he's scum, especially as A) we have a guilty cop verdict, and B) Rhand is devious
Arianrhod - Miller. I can't see scum!Arian trying a page 1 Miller gambit. However, if TCM is lying, there is no town cop (unless it was just one of KCC's JOAT shots), which would make a miller odd.
Sir Karn - I've had a townread on Karn for a while, but the less I see of him, the more it wavers. Bulletproof Ascetic seems like a good way to do bulletproof town in a game with a cult that steals powers. BUT we still don't know that we're playing against that cult, and it certainly doesn't seem to be impossible for a scum role in a game with two serial killers and a vig.
LnGrrrR - Vanilla. He's always been a middle-of-the-pack read. I can't really see Kpaca's bulletproof claim alongside a scum!Karn though.
Kamikaze Archon - Name Cop. His role has been "proven", as he revealed Bur's name before Bur claimed. But there's a few ways this could be faked, like if Kamikaze was the Borg Queen and recruited Bur last night. I'm not certain how that would interact with Bur's Mason power though, so this is kind of a big question mark.
Wheat_Grinder - There's no guarantee that Wheat is telling the truth here. When I was protected from being killed, I got an indication of such. Apparently Karn got an indication when he stopped BV's kill Night 1. I received no notification that I was protected from being recruited either of the last two nights. It's plausible that the cult didn't try to recruit me as they assumed I'd just be the Night Kill (or maybe the Queen doesn't gain abilities this time around), but it's also plausible that this is a false claim provided as another red herring for the town that there may be Borg afoot.
TCM - Cop. His results just plain don't make sense. What's the point of a cop when random people who aren't millers/godfathers return false results? Why cop the guy who's been modconfirmed as town day 1? Why cop rhand when you want someone who is "definitely town" rather than the vig?
THOSE LAST TWO AREN'T FROM DAY 1. BUT STILL I ONLY WANTED TO REFERENCE ONE GAME AND IT TURNS OUT WE DIDN'T DO A LOT OF TS LISTS IN THAT GAME. SO DEAL WITH IT.
1) YOU ARENT TALKING AS MUCH AS YOU DO IN GAMES WHERE YOURE TOWN
CASE CLOSED
I was the most active poster in Wu Tang in a game full of active posters.
That's a bad singular bullet point.
@ Puddle - I find it weird that survival should be thought as a scummy mindset, although I admit I have no idea what you're talking about in this case. Could you please point out some of these little things? I am interested in your observation skills.
I think your vote on snurfy is pretty trash though.
I'm gonna hold on to some things for a while, see how much of a pattern of behavior I can find. I don't need you to stop doing the things that make you readable, sparse as they are.
Well see my problem with that is to me that's so easily faked as scum. "Well I noticed things, but I am not going to say what heh heh" I mean that's not how mafia works. Granted this is easy for me to say because I have the benefit of knowing I am town whereas if you are town you obviously do not, but I am trying to read you as well. And it is so easy for mafia to hand wave things and, frankly, make things up just to have filler. Your post had no actual content related to me, just a bunch of words that could have been conjured as either alignment, one being genuine and the other pointless fluff.
Although as I said I call into question how survival is a scum mindset, surviving is good as town.
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@ Seppel - Is that a thing? Huh. Anyway you mentioned my scum game by subtraction in a way. When you convey a thought about town games it must be inaccurate about scum games to be considered a town tell. I was merely counter pointing your bullet point. Then again you have thrown more dirt my way than at any other point in your time as scum so if you're scum here you are at least learning.
##unvote: Seppel
##vote: Cythare
Back to this.
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I want to like Seppel's argument about Huntzilla's word choice of "so far" to be scummy, but I just looked through the only game I've been in that's over - Iji Mafia 2 - and the scum who posted T/S lists did not use "so far". I even noticed that some townspeople used similar phrases. However, I think it is far more likely that town will post more confident t/s lists because they know they are not lying. They could be wrong, but they aren't lying. Mafia would try to use excuses in their lists such as "so far" so they don't have to tie themselves to an argument that isn't well-received. That's just my theory, anyway.
I'm also going to be wary of anybody who says they like me tbh because Killjoy made an entire T/S list in Iji Mafia 2 where basically "suspecting Godot" was a con for everybody who suspected me, and he was mafia. Buddying up to obv-town is like a beard.
@ Seppel - Is that a thing? Huh. Anyway you mentioned my scum game by subtraction in a way. When you convey a thought about town games it must be inaccurate about scum games to be considered a town tell. I was merely counter pointing your bullet point. Then again you have thrown more dirt my way than at any other point in your time as scum so if you're scum here you are at least learning.
I want to like Seppel's argument about Huntzilla's word choice of "so far" to be scummy, but I just looked through the only game I've been in that's over - Iji Mafia 2 - and the scum who posted T/S lists did not use "so far". I even noticed that some townspeople used similar phrases. However, I think it is far more likely that town will post more confident t/s lists because they know they are not lying. They could be wrong, but they aren't lying. Mafia would try to use excuses in their lists such as "so far" so they don't have to tie themselves to an argument that isn't well-received. That's just my theory, anyway.
I'm also going to be wary of anybody who says they like me tbh because Killjoy made an entire T/S list in Iji Mafia 2 where basically "suspecting Godot" was a con for everybody who suspected me, and he was mafia. Buddying up to obv-town is like a beard.
UGH
WHEN
WHEN WILL YOU EVER BE SCUM
AND OF COURSE TOWN ARE MORE CONFIDENT
THEY DON'T FENCESIT LIKE CRAZY!
JUST BECAUSE YOU SAW ONE SCUM BEING SMART AND NOT USING FENCESITTING LANGUAGE DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT ISN'T A SCUMTELL
I CAUGHT ISO IN ONE OF THE STAR TREK GAMES IN ONE OF HIS FIRST POSTS BECAUSE HE WAS LIKE "THESE TWO PEOPLE ARE SAYING CONFLICTING THINGS. I'M GOING TO WATCH AND SEE HOW IT PANS OUT."
IT'S HUMAN NATURE TO WANT TO BE "CORRECT"
IT'S WHY SCUM DON'T WANT TO TAKE STANCES ON THINGS
IT'S WHY PEOPLE CRAVE LYING BY OMISSION IF THEY'RE COVERING THE TRUTH
BECAUSE WE LEARN AT AN EARLY AGE THAT BETRAYING TRUST HAS HARSH CONSEQUENCES
@TCM: I don't see how you could know that no-lynch is beneficial to us, no matter what sort of role you have.
Most setups are designed so that town is more powerful during the day, scum are more powerful during the night. No-lynch is only favorable to the town in open setups or near the end of the game, when the town knows they aren't losing a lynch opportunity (or the town has enough power that another night phase is beneficial to them).
ITF if you hate waffles you are going to hate me day one. That's just how I roll. I do not feign certainty if I do not feel it, and I feel there is little to be certain about day one.
I can respect that, I try not to overstate my conviction either, but it's easy for scum to hide behind waffles. You've given some content since so I'm feeling a bit better about you, but at the time that post was the only reads you gave out of ~5 posts.
On Rodemy: I've only played with him once or twice, but at the very least he acts similar to this as town.
I see where Chris went with his questioning of Snurfy. I agree, he is townie enough for now. Unvote Snurf
That was easy.
Quote from Snurfy »
Sigh... I thought I was making an RVS vote (as indicated by the fact that I voted TCM, then unvoted in the same post).
Also, that "wagon" had three people on it. You can't really blame me for joke-voting somebody who happened to have another vote on them, then another person votes and its suddenly a wagon. If I'm using the words "joke" and "RVS" a lot, it's because that's simply how it happened.
Okay, this actually looks genuine.
Who do you think is scum Snurfy?
Quote from Sir Chris »
<b>##vote: Cythare</b>
Something about that above post makes me think 'scum', I don't know quite what yet though.
I... don't see it. Only thing I see about the post is that it's a low content post, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything unless it's a lot.
Quote from Hunger »
re: No Lynch - Come on guys. Read 1. under Game Specific Information in the OP. Has this really not occurred to anyone or is everyone just playing dumb and fishing? This is a specialty, clearly TCM isn't just saying that in a vacuum no-lynch is a great choice D1.
That doesn't mean anything though. Sure, it's a high power game (probably), but that doesn't make no-lynch a good choice, because the scum are probably equally powered.
TCM's first post has a handful of explanations, ranging from ignorance to simple reaction-getting to role-based nonsense. TCM has essentially claimed that it wasn't reaction-getting and it doesn't seem like ignorance, so role-based nonsense is the order of the day. The reality is that the odds of any town actually no-lynching on Day 1 are vanishingly small, and any experienced player would know that, so either he's being naive or he's trying to bait some sort of ability or else he's playing some kind of long-term objective. In very few of these cases can I imagine a scum making a move like this, because scum-type abilities generally don't benefit much from not knowing what's going on.
In my judgment, TCM is as clear as anyone can get day 1. Anyone trying to wagon him at this point is seriously missing the point.
He's wrong, not necessarily scum. Why would a scum TCM draw attention to himself in this way? Doesn't make sense.
I have observed TCM to be very self-confident. I can see him using the refuge in audacity tactic.
Although possible, do you really think him saying this makes him scum?
Quote from Hunzilla »
Because you deliberately misrepped the fact that you stole your ONE SCUM READ from me. That's what is scummy. And then when it was pointed out that we should probably let Snurfy be for now, you didn't back off, and STILL hadn't backed off. So it appears for you to be targeting the new guy. And I have a soft spot for new guys, being fresh to the site myself.
I know this is crazy, but new players can be scum too. You backed off without even a real explanation, despite the pretty big contradiction Rodemy and I pointed out. You're also viewing Snurfy in terms of how new and easy to be lynched he is, which is how scum tend to view people.
Are Specialty Games supposed to have more power roles?
If so, I can see TCM's argument now. He doesn't want a power role to be mislynched before they get the chance to use their power, right? I still disagree with this bring the best course of action, unless there's some weird ass condition where his power is only going to work under this situation? Or something? <--- not fishing, just needing a better reason to agree with a no-lynch, otherwise I'm inclined to disagree.
I have the day off, time to get some analyzing in.
Sir Chris: Lots of short posts. Clearly has some talent at this. I can't read him. There's a lot of little things I notice in his first several posts that read as being concerned about his survival, which leans scum, but then there's just about exactly enough uncertainty and concern about other people's alignments without seeming insincere to balance it out.
Huntzilla: overplays RVS a bit, stock reaction to NL plan, reacts with disdain to ITF pressure (town tell), votes for a /barner (town), talks around his justification for unvoting (tiny scum), more disdain for Zionite vote (iffy? starting to feel stock?), votes Rod for fakeness (townish), tosses out first T/S with zero provocation (pretty big town), defensive of snurfy (maybe scummy if linked?) If scum, is doing a very good job of faking the correct emotional reactions, however, very little effort to piece things together so far. Probably town though, doing the sheep thing.
Rodemy: super weak vote right after rvs on Chris (tiny scummish), misunderstands, tries to justify vote to push a wagon (townish), tries to justify vote to defend himself (scummish), claims to be random to defend himself (scummish), calls snurfy out for /barning (town), ignores Sepi and Antny's PBP war rather than trying to get involved (tiny townish for such an active player), shows concern about learning how not to act scummy (newbish, scummish), tries a push on Huntzilla based on a lack of Hunt scumhunting (town, legitimate point, if weak this early), throws around suspicion on Hunt, TCM, snurfy in rapid succession without connecting them (super town, given earlier posts). Sigh, I don't like it, but now I'm reading him as town. Just a couple of his posts are really good but I can't imagine him faking them, and all the other scummy stuff doesn't add up to enough to beat it.
Those are the three most frequent posters in the thread, I'll try to get some more analysis in later.
Unvote and I'll toss a Vote snurfy for good measure. I think this guy deserves a bit of a run up the ladder, see what happens.
Why do you spend the entire post talking about three people, then vote someone completely different?
I want to like Seppel's argument about Huntzilla's word choice of "so far" to be scummy, but I just looked through the only game I've been in that's over - Iji Mafia 2 - and the scum who posted T/S lists did not use "so far". I even noticed that some townspeople used similar phrases. However, I think it is far more likely that town will post more confident t/s lists because they know they are not lying. They could be wrong, but they aren't lying. Mafia would try to use excuses in their lists such as "so far" so they don't have to tie themselves to an argument that isn't well-received. That's just my theory, anyway.
I'm also going to be wary of anybody who says they like me tbh because Killjoy made an entire T/S list in Iji Mafia 2 where basically "suspecting Godot" was a con for everybody who suspected me, and he was mafia. Buddying up to obv-town is like a beard.
I like you.
@Sepiriel: Your last few posts haven't had, like, any scumhunting in them. Who do you think is scum?
Also, Puddles said he was putting a "run up the ladder" on Snurfy with that vote... Which is fine, I guess, unless you SAY that's what you're doing AS YOURE DOING IT, BEFORE THAT PERSON REPLIES. Like the reaction would be junk after that because you told them what you were doing. If Snurfy flips scum, Puddles should be eradicated next.
Okay so, IF Sir Chris actually HAD agreed with TCM, It would be scummy because it appeared that TCM was fishing. Putting out a bad idea that is anti town can be scum.. but agreeing with it seems more like Scum agreeing with townies bad idea.
Sir Chris stood out more for going along with it than TCM was suggesting it. If Sir Chris had been lynched and came up scum, it would be a reason to investigate TCM D2.
HOWEVER
You told me that Sir Chris wasn't actually agreeing with TCM, which made me go back, re-read his post and go.. OHHHHHHHH.. Hence why I didn't continue the push.
Does that make sense?
Seriously, are you guys saying that i am scummy for NOT pushing a made up case? ._.?
So, it's only fishing if Chris agreed with it?
Also, why can't TCM be scum for suggesting it in the first place if Chris might be scum for thinking it's a good idea?
Scum post is scummy. Cool logic and justification are tools for Scum, not Town. Also, I play almost exclusively on vibes. Get used to it. Vote: Puddle Jumper
[...]
I see a scumbuddy, too. Man, this is going to be easy.
So, about your vote on PJ... your justification on it doesn't make sense. Cool logic and justification are tools for scum? Explain please. Also explain why that merits a vote.
Also, the second part seems a bit forced to me.
Okay so Snurfy is town, we can all move on from that.
I'm leaning the other way, actually. I'm especially not impressed with the way he throws some mud at Antny at the end of his 104, as if to throw attention away from himself.
I think this game is the perfect game for a no-lynch, day 1, just from what I can delve. No-lynch is a tool for the town, but saying it should never be used day 1 is complete bollocks. There are several reasons it can be useful, but there are obvious reasons why I cannot. Do bear in mind that I am aware the odds of the scum not having a re-director/roleblocker are almost 0 in any non-basic game, but I still feel strongly about it. If you still want the day to go forwards, fine with that as well, but do keep an open mind.
@Chris: I am only saying this because I have noticed this pattern with you (not going to mention specifics). Sometimes, the best lies are the ones considered too silly to be lies. Bear that principal in mind for scum hunting.
Why this game though. Why are you implementing this idea in THIS game? I haven't played with a LOT of the people here, so going off meta day two would be.. *****ty. And that is pretty much all we have if we go straight to no lynch. Sigh.. i'll bite.
Wat are the pros to a no lynch D1?
Huntzilla can you please contribute some thoughts on who you are leaning towards as scum. I haven't seen a single ounce of effort put forward.. and you have posted a lot.
I do apologize. Had I known it would cause you such grief I would have withheld my comment until you could post first.
Unvote
Vote Antny223
But since you had to be a whine-baby, I will vote you instead.
Unvote
Vote No Lynch
Because we can....
Unvote
Vote Seppel
Because he can't do anything about it.
Unvote
Vote Hunger
Because a wagon is made by three!
Unvote
Because I have got RVS out of my system.
Explain your vote on Hunger... why make a wagon in RVS?
Because Oregon Trail was my favorite game when I was five. I don't have an actual reason, and if you go back and look, it actually didn't even make the third vote on Hunger, because the person before me had voted and then unvoted right away. So, I guess to sum it up, I did it because it felt good. And it went with my point, which was to get as many random votes out of my system as possible before we got down to being serious.
I still don't understand TCM's reasons for a nolynch. Why wouldn't it be better to at least try to lynch scum, and if we don't hit scum we at least get information?
If I am understanding correctly, the no lynch ploy would simply save us from mislynching a townie, since odds are day one that we generally hit fellow townies versus a scum member. By no lynching it essentially puts us "up a town member" from where we would normally be on a typical day two. The roleblocker piece I am not as sure about. I do not understand what he means by all of that.
Obviously, there is the drawback you mentioned Snurfy, where we simply don't glean as much information as we would otherwise.
I see where Chris went with his questioning of Snurfy. I agree, he is townie enough for now. Unvote Snurf
I have to say, I am a huge fan of quick days, but even I have to have a little more input into the thread before I will jump on the no lynch bandwagon. I don't particularly like the idea of letting the scum get "free" kills by no lynching though. Can we revisit the idea in a few more pages?
No lynching is a bad idea, but he's open to it. He voices some concerns, but sets himself up to go either way.
I am hoping this answers your point as to why no lynching is not such "a bad idea." If you don't get it still, well, agree to disagree then. It is not my favorite plan at all, but I do understand its uses.
And I'm sure there are plenty more if I go back further. It didn't seem like anyone was even considering the parameters of this game or his role. People seemed to be being deliberately obtuse about it and just trying to suck more info out of him when it was pretty obvious he wasn't just saying, "D1 no lynches are tops!"
2) SCUM TEND TO REFERENCE THEIR SCUM GAMES RATHER THAN THEIR TOWN GAMES
CASE DOUBLE CLOSED
AND WHAT IS UP WITH THIS HUNTZILLA GUY
MORE LIKE ****ZILLA AM I RIGHT
HE GIVES NEARLY NO READS (SCUM BEHAVIOR)
THEN RODEMY CALLS HIM OUT ON IT
AND ZILLA IS LIKE "HEY HEY DON'T LYNCH ME HERE'S MY READS"
FIRST OFF, LYNCH THAT ON SIGHT
UNVOTE, VOTE HUNTZILLA
SECONDLY, I'MMA BOLD SOME GARBAGE
1. Plowshares - Leaning Town on him SO FAR.
2. The Cold Monarch - SO FAR getting the normal TCM vibe from him.
6. Sepiriel- Sepi seems town SO FAR. [...] Cythare does not like though... HMM...
7. KamikazeArchon - Kami is quiet. Again. Nothing here YET
12. Zionite- Blind vote of me and then quickly off another direction (Rodemy). SEE WHERE THAT ALL GOES...
17. Snurfy8- Few pressured votes, did not fold under them. Seems ok FOR NOW.
18. Hunger - Good SO FAR. Nothing major.
ONE OR TWO RESPONSES LIKE "SO FAR" IN A T/S LIST ISN'T SCUMTASTIC.
ONCE YOU HIT THREE, THINGS GET REALLY QUESTIONABLE.
ONCE YOU HIT SEVEN
OH LORD
Read the line RIGHT before the list starts. Then come back to me and ask nicely, and I will let you know why everything is so wishy washy on the first T/S list of the day. If you can't figure out the blatant reason.
Why are you being such a dick this game? Seems pretty forced to me Seppel. Plus, the yelling. It has to stop. It's just rude.
Of all the people in here you should know my style the most, and I am often not definitive. Unless I am voting you or Az, but we will get to that soon enough. You seem to be forcing it that way regardless.
I want to like Seppel's argument about Huntzilla's word choice of "so far" to be scummy, but I just looked through the only game I've been in that's over - Iji Mafia 2 - and the scum who posted T/S lists did not use "so far". I even noticed that some townspeople used similar phrases. However, I think it is far more likely that town will post more confident t/s lists because they know they are not lying. They could be wrong, but they aren't lying. Mafia would try to use excuses in their lists such as "so far" so they don't have to tie themselves to an argument that isn't well-received. That's just my theory, anyway.
I'm also going to be wary of anybody who says they like me tbh because Killjoy made an entire T/S list in Iji Mafia 2 where basically "suspecting Godot" was a con for everybody who suspected me, and he was mafia. Buddying up to obv-town is like a beard.
That's because it's a bologna argument Godot. Seppel is just throwing mud around trying to make himself look busy like he is "scumhunting" but instead he is just nitpicking on theory. That isn't scumhunting, that's distracting townies. It is the same bull**** we will be dealing with when it comes to Seppel forever.
Read the lines before and after the T/S list again and you will see why my reads are where they are. It's too early for me to be definitive. Except Seppel is jumping quickly up to the top of my list.
@ Seppel - Is that a thing? Huh. Anyway you mentioned my scum game by subtraction in a way. When you convey a thought about town games it must be inaccurate about scum games to be considered a town tell. I was merely counter pointing your bullet point. Then again you have thrown more dirt my way than at any other point in your time as scum so if you're scum here you are at least learning.
I want to like Seppel's argument about Huntzilla's word choice of "so far" to be scummy, but I just looked through the only game I've been in that's over - Iji Mafia 2 - and the scum who posted T/S lists did not use "so far". I even noticed that some townspeople used similar phrases. However, I think it is far more likely that town will post more confident t/s lists because they know they are not lying. They could be wrong, but they aren't lying. Mafia would try to use excuses in their lists such as "so far" so they don't have to tie themselves to an argument that isn't well-received. That's just my theory, anyway.
I'm also going to be wary of anybody who says they like me tbh because Killjoy made an entire T/S list in Iji Mafia 2 where basically "suspecting Godot" was a con for everybody who suspected me, and he was mafia. Buddying up to obv-town is like a beard.
UGH
WHEN
WHEN WILL YOU EVER BE SCUM
AND OF COURSE TOWN ARE MORE CONFIDENT
THEY DON'T FENCESIT LIKE CRAZY!
JUST BECAUSE YOU SAW ONE SCUM BEING SMART AND NOT USING FENCESITTING LANGUAGE DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT ISN'T A SCUMTELL
I CAUGHT ISO IN ONE OF THE STAR TREK GAMES IN ONE OF HIS FIRST POSTS BECAUSE HE WAS LIKE "THESE TWO PEOPLE ARE SAYING CONFLICTING THINGS. I'M GOING TO WATCH AND SEE HOW IT PANS OUT."
IT'S HUMAN NATURE TO WANT TO BE "CORRECT"
IT'S WHY SCUM DON'T WANT TO TAKE STANCES ON THINGS
IT'S WHY PEOPLE CRAVE LYING BY OMISSION IF THEY'RE COVERING THE TRUTH
BECAUSE WE LEARN AT AN EARLY AGE THAT BETRAYING TRUST HAS HARSH CONSEQUENCES
SO WE'RE TRAINED TO AHHGAHHHHHHHHHH
Town should not be that confident this early, unless there has been some HUGE slip by the scum team. Everyone has been posting, but not a lot has been done this game at all. For you to try and force a mislynch on me based off of a T/S list is freaking laughable Seppel. Your pseudopsychology about everyone wanting to be correct all the time is ridiculous, but at least I can somewhat agree with it. We are playing a game, and we want to be right in catching scum, but there should still be caution in our voices at this stage, as we are just getting started. You on the other hand are trying to sound OVERLY confident that you have found something lynchable, which is not the case. I think you are simply forcing this far too much, it is a stretch at best. Unvote
Vote Seppel
@TCM: I don't see how you could know that no-lynch is beneficial to us, no matter what sort of role you have.
Most setups are designed so that town is more powerful during the day, scum are more powerful during the night. No-lynch is only favorable to the town in open setups or near the end of the game, when the town knows they aren't losing a lynch opportunity (or the town has enough power that another night phase is beneficial to them).
ITF if you hate waffles you are going to hate me day one. That's just how I roll. I do not feign certainty if I do not feel it, and I feel there is little to be certain about day one.
I can respect that, I try not to overstate my conviction either, but it's easy for scum to hide behind waffles. You've given some content since so I'm feeling a bit better about you, but at the time that post was the only reads you gave out of ~5 posts.
On Rodemy: I've only played with him once or twice, but at the very least he acts similar to this as town.
I see where Chris went with his questioning of Snurfy. I agree, he is townie enough for now. Unvote Snurf
That was easy.
Quote from Snurfy »
Sigh... I thought I was making an RVS vote (as indicated by the fact that I voted TCM, then unvoted in the same post).
Also, that "wagon" had three people on it. You can't really blame me for joke-voting somebody who happened to have another vote on them, then another person votes and its suddenly a wagon. If I'm using the words "joke" and "RVS" a lot, it's because that's simply how it happened.
Okay, this actually looks genuine.
Who do you think is scum Snurfy?
Quote from Sir Chris »
<b>##vote: Cythare</b>
Something about that above post makes me think 'scum', I don't know quite what yet though.
I... don't see it. Only thing I see about the post is that it's a low content post, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything unless it's a lot.
Quote from Hunger »
re: No Lynch - Come on guys. Read 1. under Game Specific Information in the OP. Has this really not occurred to anyone or is everyone just playing dumb and fishing? This is a specialty, clearly TCM isn't just saying that in a vacuum no-lynch is a great choice D1.
That doesn't mean anything though. Sure, it's a high power game (probably), but that doesn't make no-lynch a good choice, because the scum are probably equally powered.
TCM's first post has a handful of explanations, ranging from ignorance to simple reaction-getting to role-based nonsense. TCM has essentially claimed that it wasn't reaction-getting and it doesn't seem like ignorance, so role-based nonsense is the order of the day. The reality is that the odds of any town actually no-lynching on Day 1 are vanishingly small, and any experienced player would know that, so either he's being naive or he's trying to bait some sort of ability or else he's playing some kind of long-term objective. In very few of these cases can I imagine a scum making a move like this, because scum-type abilities generally don't benefit much from not knowing what's going on.
In my judgment, TCM is as clear as anyone can get day 1. Anyone trying to wagon him at this point is seriously missing the point.
He's wrong, not necessarily scum. Why would a scum TCM draw attention to himself in this way? Doesn't make sense.
I have observed TCM to be very self-confident. I can see him using the refuge in audacity tactic.
Although possible, do you really think him saying this makes him scum?
Quote from Hunzilla »
Because you deliberately misrepped the fact that you stole your ONE SCUM READ from me. That's what is scummy. And then when it was pointed out that we should probably let Snurfy be for now, you didn't back off, and STILL hadn't backed off. So it appears for you to be targeting the new guy. And I have a soft spot for new guys, being fresh to the site myself.
I know this is crazy, but new players can be scum too. You backed off without even a real explanation, despite the pretty big contradiction Rodemy and I pointed out. You're also viewing Snurfy in terms of how new and easy to be lynched he is, which is how scum tend to view people.
I also agree 100% with what Seppel said.
Unvote
Vote Huntzilla
I backed off because of Chris and his post. Chris is one of my favortie town analysts, and I trust his judgement. He said Snurf is good, so I pretty much /barned him.
I am new to the site too, so yes, the idea that noobs are easier to mislynch is fresh in my head.
@Hunt - A lot of people on this site do the whole overconfident, "x is scum. y is town" thing early D1. Seppel is one of them and I don't think that's a very good argument for calling him scum. Like, Iso literally does this in every game I have ever played with him. People like to show confidence because waffling can be seen as fence-sitting and scummy. Check out PJ -> Chris already in this game. In your favor though, I agree that the "so far" case against you is also *****. I also think your posts in general have sounded super genuine and I think you are probably Town, but you are seemingly on tilt right now.
Holy cow, guys, can we cool it with the quote walls? It's impossible to tell who's responding to what.
@waitingforgodot: if you think my motivation in voting snurfy is not sincere, you have an easy way to test it. Jump on with me and see how uncomfortable with the situation I get. I imagine it never occurred to you to do anything other than just vomit your tiniest suspicions into the thread, though.
Sadly, I do believe you're town, which irritates me a bit because you'd be a lot more beneficial to the town if you were scum.
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This is pretty much my normal behavior in mafia, a quick look at my prior games will show that i do that regardless of alignment.
This was something that should have been obvious a while ago actually... I do hate that you then ask about the nature of his plan, it reeks of subtle fishing.
First, because thinking that TCM is town doesn't equate to thinking that he's right, and
Second, because no one, not even TCM, wants to end the day *yet*.
Godot: I don't recall anyone actually being for the no lynch besides TCM. Who are you talking to?
...and I got it.
Unvote
Really good point.
Vote Rodemy
This is a pretty bad defense, I gotta say. But I hate anything that has to do with "seriousness" tones in text and context.
The mafia's odds are hitting a PR are 100%. As long as the kill is successful, a power role has to die because everyone has a power role. I'm quite sure no lynches are only beneficial to the town on odd number player days. Just because your role is nicer if we no lynch doesn't mean that's the best plan. Not only that, but claims are essential if we are to judge which power roles to protect and which to sacrifice. We can't be running up wagons and gaining no info because there's no threat of a claim. We'd be here for years.
He's wrong, not necessarily scum. Why would a scum TCM draw attention to himself in this way? Doesn't make sense.
Self-meta is not admissible evidence in the court(mob) of mafia.
How is it subtle if it's in plain view? I would think everyone should be interested in why TCM feels he is so special that a No Lynch is the best course of action, when all previous experience tells us otherwise.
ughhh WHY ARE YOU SO TOWN
UNVOTE
LOOK
YOU MADE ME UNVOTE
VOTE ZIONITE
THIS VOTE ISN'T LEAVING UNTIL YOU SAY "I'VE NEVER PLAYED WITH RODEMY BEFORE" AND YOU UNVOTE RODEMY
##vote: Seppel
Not putting up with a Seppel Gimmick.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Because while i can agree with the idea of a No Lynch on D1 i want more discussion first.
Simple, regardless of the answer youare asking him to confirm that he is alluding to the game mechanics, and while that is not damming it is however easy to see that whatever it is he is planning depends on two things a No Lynch D1 and has its justification on the First post.
@Chris: I was going to make a joke about you not wanting a Sep gimmick and me being here but then i decided not to since i really have nothing to follow it up with.
@Zionite: It's been a long while since i played with you, but i find it hilarious that in this site self-meta is not a valid defense but meta-analysis is consiered valid evidence by the mobs.
<3
V/LA til sunday. Bai Felicia.
@HANSNATORZILLABOND
I am V/LA TIL SUNDAY
You literally had no scum reads when i asked you that....
Sorry yes you did make that.. one... point. But then backed off of it so fast.... Again.. no effort.
Why can't TCM say right out why he wants a no-lynch? I think I'm starting to come around to his reasoning, but I don't see why there had to be all this smoke and mirrors around it.
Can I print, frame, and hang this on my wall?
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
YOU WANNA FIGHT
LET'S GO
1) YOU ARENT TALKING AS MUCH AS YOU DO IN GAMES WHERE YOURE TOWN
CASE CLOSED
YOU CAN TRY BUT YOU MIGHT HAVE TO MOVE YOUR COLOSSALLY HUGE SELF PORTRAIT
Because you deliberately misrepped the fact that you stole your ONE SCUM READ from me. That's what is scummy. And then when it was pointed out that we should probably let Snurfy be for now, you didn't back off, and STILL hadn't backed off. So it appears for you to be targeting the new guy. And I have a soft spot for new guys, being fresh to the site myself.
The final point is, you haven't talked about your OTHER reads either...
But since you have been insistent, I will be the first dumbo to stick up a T/S day one with crap to go on.
1. Plowshares - Recently come back to site fro hiatus, mislynched and accused of being scummy even when he isn't, hence the Seppel and him banter. Leaning Town on him so far.
2. The Cold Monarch - So far getting the normal TCM vibe from him. Nothing major one way or another.
3. Antny223- Fight with Sepi felt Town vs Town. Feeling town vibes.
4. Killjoy - Very Town, this is the KJ I have seen consistently
5. Huntzilla- Super Town. Towniest of Towns. Most likely to be voted mayor of townville.
6. Sepiriel- Sepi seems town so far. Got into the normal day one squabble with fellow town mate. Cythare does not like though... hmm...
7. KamikazeArchon - Kami is quiet. Again. Nothing here yet.
8. Rodemy- Don't like Rodemy's strange calling me out and picking on Snurf.
9. Cythare- I am wary of Cythare. I will be keeping an eye here.
10. Sir Chris - More animated than I have seen him, but this is my first day one with Chris, so I am thinking this is excitement. Still has his very good logical approach that appeals to me. I will be listening to his advice a lot.
11. Seppel- Scares Me. Always is Scum. Always. See Plowshares buddying posts, but flip them around and that's how I feel about Seppel.
12. Zionite- Blind vote of me and then quickly off another direction (Rodemy). See where that all goes... .
13. Bur - Said she wanted to be scum. I am thinking she got her wish. Initial posts, and gone for a while. Lurktastic?
14. Puddle Jumper- Talks up experience. Good insights. Leaning on the town side.
15. ITF- This is my gut reaction. I am not sure I like ITF....
16. Waitingforgodot- Another newer player like myself. Like her attitude most of the time, comes across strange but I can follow her thought process... unless it is skydiving on drugs. Then she's lost me.
17. Snurfy8- Few pressured votes, did not fold under them. Seems ok for now.
18. Hunger - Good so far. Nothing major.
So there you go! A whole pile of nothing much going on, despite 7 pages.
If you want the tl;dr version:
What Chris said^
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Sir Chris: Lots of short posts. Clearly has some talent at this. I can't read him. There's a lot of little things I notice in his first several posts that read as being concerned about his survival, which leans scum, but then there's just about exactly enough uncertainty and concern about other people's alignments without seeming insincere to balance it out.
Huntzilla: overplays RVS a bit, stock reaction to NL plan, reacts with disdain to ITF pressure (town tell), votes for a /barner (town), talks around his justification for unvoting (tiny scum), more disdain for Zionite vote (iffy? starting to feel stock?), votes Rod for fakeness (townish), tosses out first T/S with zero provocation (pretty big town), defensive of snurfy (maybe scummy if linked?) If scum, is doing a very good job of faking the correct emotional reactions, however, very little effort to piece things together so far. Probably town though, doing the sheep thing.
Rodemy: super weak vote right after rvs on Chris (tiny scummish), misunderstands, tries to justify vote to push a wagon (townish), tries to justify vote to defend himself (scummish), claims to be random to defend himself (scummish), calls snurfy out for /barning (town), ignores Sepi and Antny's PBP war rather than trying to get involved (tiny townish for such an active player), shows concern about learning how not to act scummy (newbish, scummish), tries a push on Huntzilla based on a lack of Hunt scumhunting (town, legitimate point, if weak this early), throws around suspicion on Hunt, TCM, snurfy in rapid succession without connecting them (super town, given earlier posts). Sigh, I don't like it, but now I'm reading him as town. Just a couple of his posts are really good but I can't imagine him faking them, and all the other scummy stuff doesn't add up to enough to beat it.
Those are the three most frequent posters in the thread, I'll try to get some more analysis in later.
Unvote and I'll toss a Vote snurfy for good measure. I think this guy deserves a bit of a run up the ladder, see what happens.
I was the most active poster in Wu Tang in a game full of active posters.
That's a bad singular bullet point.
@ Puddle - I find it weird that survival should be thought as a scummy mindset, although I admit I have no idea what you're talking about in this case. Could you please point out some of these little things? I am interested in your observation skills.
I think your vote on snurfy is pretty trash though.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2) SCUM TEND TO REFERENCE THEIR SCUM GAMES RATHER THAN THEIR TOWN GAMES
CASE DOUBLE CLOSED
AND WHAT IS UP WITH THIS HUNTZILLA GUY
MORE LIKE ****ZILLA AM I RIGHT
HE GIVES NEARLY NO READS (SCUM BEHAVIOR)
THEN RODEMY CALLS HIM OUT ON IT
AND ZILLA IS LIKE "HEY HEY DON'T LYNCH ME HERE'S MY READS"
FIRST OFF, LYNCH THAT ON SIGHT
UNVOTE, VOTE HUNTZILLA
SECONDLY, I'MMA BOLD SOME GARBAGE
1. Plowshares - Leaning Town on him SO FAR.
2. The Cold Monarch - SO FAR getting the normal TCM vibe from him.
6. Sepiriel- Sepi seems town SO FAR. [...] Cythare does not like though... HMM...
7. KamikazeArchon - Kami is quiet. Again. Nothing here YET
12. Zionite- Blind vote of me and then quickly off another direction (Rodemy). SEE WHERE THAT ALL GOES...
17. Snurfy8- Few pressured votes, did not fold under them. Seems ok FOR NOW.
18. Hunger - Good SO FAR. Nothing major.
ONE OR TWO RESPONSES LIKE "SO FAR" IN A T/S LIST ISN'T SCUMTASTIC.
ONCE YOU HIT THREE, THINGS GET REALLY QUESTIONABLE.
ONCE YOU HIT SEVEN
OH LORD
THOSE LAST TWO AREN'T FROM DAY 1. BUT STILL I ONLY WANTED TO REFERENCE ONE GAME AND IT TURNS OUT WE DIDN'T DO A LOT OF TS LISTS IN THAT GAME. SO DEAL WITH IT.
I'm gonna hold on to some things for a while, see how much of a pattern of behavior I can find. I don't need you to stop doing the things that make you readable, sparse as they are.
Although as I said I call into question how survival is a scum mindset, surviving is good as town.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
@ Seppel - Is that a thing? Huh. Anyway you mentioned my scum game by subtraction in a way. When you convey a thought about town games it must be inaccurate about scum games to be considered a town tell. I was merely counter pointing your bullet point. Then again you have thrown more dirt my way than at any other point in your time as scum so if you're scum here you are at least learning.
##unvote: Seppel
##vote: Cythare
Back to this.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I'm also going to be wary of anybody who says they like me tbh because Killjoy made an entire T/S list in Iji Mafia 2 where basically "suspecting Godot" was a con for everybody who suspected me, and he was mafia. Buddying up to obv-town is like a beard.
AND WHY SHOULD I CARE ABOUT THAT VOTE ON CYTHARE
UGH
WHEN
WHEN WILL YOU EVER BE SCUM
AND OF COURSE TOWN ARE MORE CONFIDENT
THEY DON'T FENCESIT LIKE CRAZY!
JUST BECAUSE YOU SAW ONE SCUM BEING SMART AND NOT USING FENCESITTING LANGUAGE DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT ISN'T A SCUMTELL
I CAUGHT ISO IN ONE OF THE STAR TREK GAMES IN ONE OF HIS FIRST POSTS BECAUSE HE WAS LIKE "THESE TWO PEOPLE ARE SAYING CONFLICTING THINGS. I'M GOING TO WATCH AND SEE HOW IT PANS OUT."
IT'S HUMAN NATURE TO WANT TO BE "CORRECT"
IT'S WHY SCUM DON'T WANT TO TAKE STANCES ON THINGS
IT'S WHY PEOPLE CRAVE LYING BY OMISSION IF THEY'RE COVERING THE TRUTH
BECAUSE WE LEARN AT AN EARLY AGE THAT BETRAYING TRUST HAS HARSH CONSEQUENCES
SO WE'RE TRAINED TO AHHGAHHHHHHHHHH
I like your argument more now after your unnecessarily capitalized elaboration
Unvote; vote: Huntzilla
Most setups are designed so that town is more powerful during the day, scum are more powerful during the night. No-lynch is only favorable to the town in open setups or near the end of the game, when the town knows they aren't losing a lynch opportunity (or the town has enough power that another night phase is beneficial to them).
I can respect that, I try not to overstate my conviction either, but it's easy for scum to hide behind waffles. You've given some content since so I'm feeling a bit better about you, but at the time that post was the only reads you gave out of ~5 posts.
On Rodemy: I've only played with him once or twice, but at the very least he acts similar to this as town.
Where did you play before?
I just don't see how you could have thought we were still in RVS when there were multiple serious votes being made. It's really weird.
That was easy.
Okay, this actually looks genuine.
Who do you think is scum Snurfy?
I... don't see it. Only thing I see about the post is that it's a low content post, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything unless it's a lot.
That doesn't mean anything though. Sure, it's a high power game (probably), but that doesn't make no-lynch a good choice, because the scum are probably equally powered.
I'm inclined to agree.
Although possible, do you really think him saying this makes him scum?
I know this is crazy, but new players can be scum too. You backed off without even a real explanation, despite the pretty big contradiction Rodemy and I pointed out. You're also viewing Snurfy in terms of how new and easy to be lynched he is, which is how scum tend to view people.
I also agree 100% with what Seppel said.
Unvote
Vote Huntzilla
Are Specialty Games supposed to have more power roles?
If so, I can see TCM's argument now. He doesn't want a power role to be mislynched before they get the chance to use their power, right? I still disagree with this bring the best course of action, unless there's some weird ass condition where his power is only going to work under this situation? Or something? <--- not fishing, just needing a better reason to agree with a no-lynch, otherwise I'm inclined to disagree.
Why do you spend the entire post talking about three people, then vote someone completely different?
I like you.
@Sepiriel: Your last few posts haven't had, like, any scumhunting in them. Who do you think is scum?
Vote count!
Hunger (1): Bur
Cythare (2): Antny223, Sir Chris
Antny223 (1): Cythare
Snurfy8 (3): Rodemy, Puddle Jumper, KamikazeArchon
Rodemy (4): Snurfy8, Killjoy, Huntzilla, Zionite
Sire Chris (1): Sepiriel
PuddleJumper (1) Plowshares
Huntzilla (3): Seppel, Waitingforgodot, ITF
No Lynch (1): TCM
Not Voting: Hunger
With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to lynch.
Bur has approximately 2 hours to post before he is prodded
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Y u do dis
Also, Puddles said he was putting a "run up the ladder" on Snurfy with that vote... Which is fine, I guess, unless you SAY that's what you're doing AS YOURE DOING IT, BEFORE THAT PERSON REPLIES. Like the reaction would be junk after that because you told them what you were doing. If Snurfy flips scum, Puddles should be eradicated next.
And I'm sure there are plenty more if I go back further. It didn't seem like anyone was even considering the parameters of this game or his role. People seemed to be being deliberately obtuse about it and just trying to suck more info out of him when it was pretty obvious he wasn't just saying, "D1 no lynches are tops!"
Read the line RIGHT before the list starts. Then come back to me and ask nicely, and I will let you know why everything is so wishy washy on the first T/S list of the day. If you can't figure out the blatant reason.
Why are you being such a dick this game? Seems pretty forced to me Seppel. Plus, the yelling. It has to stop. It's just rude.
Of all the people in here you should know my style the most, and I am often not definitive. Unless I am voting you or Az, but we will get to that soon enough. You seem to be forcing it that way regardless.
Would you like to be able to vote both? I am sure that could happen Kami...
That's because it's a bologna argument Godot. Seppel is just throwing mud around trying to make himself look busy like he is "scumhunting" but instead he is just nitpicking on theory. That isn't scumhunting, that's distracting townies. It is the same bull**** we will be dealing with when it comes to Seppel forever.
Read the lines before and after the T/S list again and you will see why my reads are where they are. It's too early for me to be definitive. Except Seppel is jumping quickly up to the top of my list.
Town should not be that confident this early, unless there has been some HUGE slip by the scum team. Everyone has been posting, but not a lot has been done this game at all. For you to try and force a mislynch on me based off of a T/S list is freaking laughable Seppel. Your pseudopsychology about everyone wanting to be correct all the time is ridiculous, but at least I can somewhat agree with it. We are playing a game, and we want to be right in catching scum, but there should still be caution in our voices at this stage, as we are just getting started. You on the other hand are trying to sound OVERLY confident that you have found something lynchable, which is not the case. I think you are simply forcing this far too much, it is a stretch at best.
Unvote
Vote Seppel
I backed off because of Chris and his post. Chris is one of my favortie town analysts, and I trust his judgement. He said Snurf is good, so I pretty much /barned him.
I am new to the site too, so yes, the idea that noobs are easier to mislynch is fresh in my head.
I'll give you my thoughts after I finish reading everything I've missed.
@waitingforgodot: if you think my motivation in voting snurfy is not sincere, you have an easy way to test it. Jump on with me and see how uncomfortable with the situation I get. I imagine it never occurred to you to do anything other than just vomit your tiniest suspicions into the thread, though.
Sadly, I do believe you're town, which irritates me a bit because you'd be a lot more beneficial to the town if you were scum.