#66 @Cythare - For what reason did you Unvote Tanarin?
Where do you stand on proph? You start off with an attack on proph's play, only to back off and defend it with a meta null read?
Whoops, missed the second part here. I wasn't sure at the time (for the reasons you state). I'm more sold now on him being scum.
@Proph
You're correct that haven't played together AFAIK. And that is why I believe Rodemy would be intimidated by Axel. Axel is know for being a strong player whether he is Town or Scum. I know when I first played with him I had my own reservations about approaching him.
Uh, so I guess there actually is a wagon on Proph.
Megiddo, Sir Karn, KamikazeArchon, Rodemy, waitingforgodot, Cythare. Also, Wheat voted Proph at one point and then bailed.
Possible scum in order of likeliness: KamikazeArchon (OMGUS vote), waitingforgodot (do something), Cythare (weird timing of vote shortly after being called out by DJ), Megiddo, Sir Karn, Wheat, Rodemy
I don't have more than a light scum read on anyone in that cluster though, although I mentioned at the time I did not like Kamikaze's vote.
I am still not feeling a Proph lynch. I don't even understand the complaints/suspicion. Someone care to lay it out with like, bullet points or something? I have a feeling it falls apart fairly quickly when you do that. Unless your reasoning is "gut."
I like dking. Something about his posting style is just very natural, reasonable, and non-suspicious.
I'm also getting the sense Rodemy is one of those hyper-aggressive types who enjoys jumping on people for tiny things and seeing if they crack or not. Not my favorite style, but I guess it's a style.
I don't have anything approaching a strong scum read. I also have zero interest in mass "name-claiming" without some kind of reason.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I have no idea what he's doing, which is normal for early Megs.
IIRC, your only experience with Megiddo has been in Celestial Mafia (Castlevania too, but he replaced in at the last minute)
You had no idea what Megiddo was doing D1 of Celestial?
Quote from KamikazeArchon »
Feels like he's trying to get info from many people, aka scumhunting.
I think it's just a bunch of summarization (the first half) and some questions (the second half). I don't get how this is different from what many other people in the thread are already doing.
Quote from Void »
You're correct that haven't played together AFAIK. And that is why I believe Rodemy would be intimidated by Axel. Axel is know for being a strong player whether he is Town or Scum. I know when I first played with him I had my own reservations about approaching him.
Alright, so you might be town. Good.
I don't even understand why Cythare is voting for me. I'll do a dissection of my wagon sometime later today.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I am still not feeling a Proph lynch. I don't even understand the complaints/suspicion. Someone care to lay it out with like, bullet points or something?
My reasons:
15/17/21 - Awkward need to vomit "town" into the thread repeatedly (minor point)
29 - Complaining about lack of stuff to go for in RVS, then voting someone for a not-RVS reason without context. I understand what the context is, but it stands apart from the first half of the post.
33 - "scanned the first page for anything I could attack" seems poorly worded. "Asked a question to everyone else" seems optimistic at best.
35 - Overexplanatory in a way that feels unnecessary and awkward (minor point)
39 - Questions like this reminded me of his play in Celestial Mafia where he asked a bunch of minor questions to look productive - specifically self-centric questions asking people about their thoughts on his own alignment.
44 - I don't like his explanations here, but can't point to anything specific.
51 - Another instance of having to say "I'm town". I like KamikazeArchon's response to this in #52.
57 - More self-centric questions that don't seem to do much else to me.
60 - I dislike the overexplaining here via self-meta.
109 - Dismissing KA's vote as OMGUS, calling Wheat's vote "the weakest" but providing nothing else on him, wanting additional input on his wagon from others.
I've thought about name claims, and I'm pretty fine with it if we go down that route.
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Megiddo has been quieter than expected, but that's fine I guess.
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Still kinda wanting to vote sir karn atm.
I just went and did a quick scan of Proph's posting in Celestial Mafia since someone referenced it as a scum game of his. And frankly his posting style there seemed a lot like this game. That doesn't necessarily mean anything except I'm giving him less credit for posting a lot into the thread.
@Proph: did you say you were trying something different this game? A new style where you just put all your thoughts out there? As opposed to how you usually play? I guess my question is: is this really different from how you usually play? I feel like I need a "Town" game for comparison now.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
oh Proph responded to my question but I missed it. I would rather not respond to yours right away but I owe you a response, Proph, and you will get it eventually.
Karn doesn't seem to have cared that I dodged his question under the pretense of misunderstanding his grammar.
on a scale from 1-10, what is everybody's interest in a mass name claim?
1. I'm very uninterested because from what I remember (and keep in mind I was racing against Iso and JeY_K at the time) was that there weren't really all that many good guys in Iji.
I have no idea what he's doing, which is normal for early Megs.
IIRC, your only experience with Megiddo has been in Celestial Mafia (Castlevania too, but he replaced in at the last minute)
You had no idea what Megiddo was doing D1 of Celestial?
Not for a while, at least.
Quote from KamikazeArchon »
Feels like he's trying to get info from many people, aka scumhunting.
I think it's just a bunch of summarization (the first half) and some questions (the second half). I don't get how this is different from what many other people in the thread are already doing.
Correct. There are other townie people in the thread also.
@Proph: did you say you were trying something different this game? A new style where you just put all your thoughts out there? As opposed to how you usually play? I guess my question is: is this really different from how you usually play? I feel like I need a "Town" game for comparison now.
This is usually how I play. I've tried to imitate other playstyles and mostly my attempts at them have gone down poorly. In my last town game, Unreal Tournament, I got apathy-lynched Day 1 by using a very succinct, non-wordy playstyle. My other town game is Porcelain Waltz, where I was in a hydra with Taredas, if you're interested in browsing my meta.
Wheat:
Cythare: I've done so above, but it's easier for me to simply copy and paste responses, so yeah.
@Cythare
In your summary of Proph you mentioned liking Kami's response. Since you only mentioned Kami as a good response you basically are putting Kami in the spotlight that he will be/is Town. I would like for you to break down Kami's post and give a summary of his play this far.
Can you explain your reasoning? I'm seeing name claiming being bad at best.
I'm extrapolating from my role PM, but if I had to guess, a lot of players have specific names or races mentioned in their role PMs. It might be best if we got those in the open so we can start planning. The flipside to this is scum DO get to also potentially plan their night actions to maximum effect. I'm selfish and reckless, though, so I don't mind taking that chance.
Also, this is a game with minimal specific characters, so scum fakeclaims are likely going to be kept to a minimum OR flavor=/=alignment, in both cases nameclaiming is either beneficial or irrelevant except to help plan our actions out.
I'm extrapolating from my role PM, but if I had to guess, a lot of players have specific names or races mentioned in their role PMs. It might be best if we got those in the open so we can start planning. The flipside to this is scum DO get to also potentially plan their night actions to maximum effect. I'm selfish and reckless, though, so I don't mind taking that chance.
Also, this is a game with minimal specific characters, so scum fakeclaims are likely going to be kept to a minimum OR flavor=/=alignment, in both cases nameclaiming is either beneficial or irrelevant except to help plan our actions out.
At least from my own PM, I know that names can have something to do with vengeance ability triggers. I think it would be a bad idea to give scum open season to turn theirs on by announcing who they should target.
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@Cythare
In your summary of Proph you mentioned liking Kami's response. Since you only mentioned Kami as a good response you basically are putting Kami in the spotlight that he will be/is Town. I would like for you to break down Kami's post and give a summary of his play this far.
That's not actually true, though? I just said that I liked that response to Proph, which is actually more accurately "I like the stuff he called Proph out on". Kami's in my leaning scum bucket, I just liked that response to Proph's #51. Here are my thoughts on Kami:
27 - Dislike, for the reason that Proph voted him for. Voting the mod is noninteractive and avoids potential awkwardness down the line.
43 - This is null for me.
50 - Also null.
52 - I liked this for the following reasons: it calls Proph's response out as self-meta, and it includes a vote on Proph. The rest of this actually reads like it could be a coach/bus combo, and puts KA and Proph on a potential scum team together for me. A lot of these posts look like them trading pillow-fight blows.
70 - Eh. See below.
73 - I dislike this. I stated that my vote on Tanarin was RVS, and Tanarin hadn't provided any new content since #40 at the time. I was clearly stepping off the Tanarin wagon, so I'm not sure what the need for this question is.
101 - This is in the vein of a lot of KA's posts - asking another player what they think about a third player, while providing little thoughts of his own.
139 - Dislike this for calling me out on lack of content while providing little of his own.
•15/17/21 - Awkward need to vomit "town" into the thread repeatedly (minor point)
•29 - Complaining about lack of stuff to go for in RVS, then voting someone for a not-RVS reason without context. I understand what the context is, but it stands apart from the first half of the post.
•33 - "scanned the first page for anything I could attack" seems poorly worded. "Asked a question to everyone else" seems optimistic at best.
•35 - Overexplanatory in a way that feels unnecessary and awkward (minor point)
•39 - Questions like this reminded me of his play in Celestial Mafia where he asked a bunch of minor questions to look productive - specifically self-centric questions asking people about their thoughts on his own alignment.
•44 - I don't like his explanations here, but can't point to anything specific.
•51 - Another instance of having to say "I'm town". I like KamikazeArchon's response to this in #52.
•57 - More self-centric questions that don't seem to do much else to me.
•60 - I dislike the overexplaining here via self-meta.
•109 - Dismissing KA's vote as OMGUS, calling Wheat's vote "the weakest" but providing nothing else on him, wanting additional input on his wagon from others.
•119 - See 39 and 57.
So, I haven't counted posts here, but this almost looks like there is literally not one single thing Proph has said or done this game that you like and only posts that you don't like. Is that about right?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
#101: That is a strong town trait for anyone to use.
In the context of other things, sure, but not by itself. It's the primary thing that Kami's been doing, and it allows him to not have to weigh in on others himself.
•15/17/21 - Awkward need to vomit "town" into the thread repeatedly (minor point)
•29 - Complaining about lack of stuff to go for in RVS, then voting someone for a not-RVS reason without context. I understand what the context is, but it stands apart from the first half of the post.
•33 - "scanned the first page for anything I could attack" seems poorly worded. "Asked a question to everyone else" seems optimistic at best.
•35 - Overexplanatory in a way that feels unnecessary and awkward (minor point)
•39 - Questions like this reminded me of his play in Celestial Mafia where he asked a bunch of minor questions to look productive - specifically self-centric questions asking people about their thoughts on his own alignment.
•44 - I don't like his explanations here, but can't point to anything specific.
•51 - Another instance of having to say "I'm town". I like KamikazeArchon's response to this in #52.
•57 - More self-centric questions that don't seem to do much else to me.
•60 - I dislike the overexplaining here via self-meta.
•109 - Dismissing KA's vote as OMGUS, calling Wheat's vote "the weakest" but providing nothing else on him, wanting additional input on his wagon from others.
•119 - See 39 and 57.
So, I haven't counted posts here, but this almost looks like there is literally not one single thing Proph has said or done this game that you like and only posts that you don't like. Is that about right?
Distinction: There is not one single thing that Proph has done that makes me think he is town, but yes. I went back to reread his earlier stuff after I read his later stuff, though.
"I'm aggressive as town" is a meta-defense, not an actual explanation. If you were town, I would expect something like "I like to stir up emotions", "I like to analyze reactions", something like that.
Simple and to the point of what he doesn't like about your play. The meta-defense is valid, but not a strong tell. Claiming what he was expecting has me thinking that KA could be Town.
Im on my phone so the quoting system sucks. To answer questions:
Proph voted on p1. But i didnt question killjoy JUST because he didnt vote.it was his post saying he was going vla with no other imput. Or a vote. I was wonderig if this was normal for him.
Proph on the other hand contradicted himself with a comment about thete being nothing of use, and then made a non rvs vote.
I am less cocerned about deathjoey (apologies for the identity misread) and more leaning to lynch proph.
vote proph
This post makes my head hurt. Bland vote, but Rodemy is giving what he believes is going on. I don't see malicious intent within the post. Possible Town.
@Rodemy
Slow down and please make more sense with your words
@Cythare
Do you believe it is a strong Scum tell? Or are you surprised that I don't? Either way, it's not out of the normal for someone to try and bait reactions during RVS.
I believe my point is very clear here. You should not be pairing people together like this early on for Day 1. I don't disagree or agree. You pushing the envelope is something I would except from Scum.
Town is just as capable of asking a useless questions as Scum. If anything, I would believe Town to ask more useless questions than Scum because Town doesn't have to worry as much as Scum.
That is bogus. By asking others about a third party, Kami is gaining a read on those answering the question. I'm more willing to believe that Kami has a set read on the third party and asked the questions to others to gauge what they had to say.
That depends on what the rest of the players have to say on this matter. Even then, it wouldn't lead to much other than a bunch of debate and possible spam.
I saw the "pillow-fight blows" and I took that at face value. If it's pillow fight blows, then it's nothing concrete to go on.
Language tell? I reread my last post and there is nothing in there that indicates my read on Kami. My read on Kami is null to leaning Town.
1) I'm not surprised you don't, and I don't consider it a strong tell by itself. I don't find it's something that town do frequently, though, and I think it's a piss poor way to bait reactions during RVS.
2) I understand your point. I don't agree. If two players look linked to me, I don't see why I shouldn't voice my opinion on it.
3) I agree with your first sentence, but not the rest. Again, I'm looking at little things that add up for me.
4) It's not bogus. I'll happily shut up about this when Kami starts providing his own opinions.
5) Ok?
6) Took it at what face value? I feel like you're not thinking the same thing I am here.
7) "Since you only mentioned Kami as a good response you basically are putting Kami in the spotlight that he will be/is Town. I would like for you to break down Kami's post and give a summary of his play this far." read to me like you were surprised that I would be putting Kami in a Town pile.
@Prophylaxis
I have experience with the game, but not in this format. I don't plan to lurk all game. I stated I was town and I made my vote. I'm not sure what else you want me to do on this day. I don't feel there's enough evidence for me to make a nice bulleted post about other players yet, which is why I'm still observing.
I'm extrapolating from my role PM, but if I had to guess, a lot of players have specific names or races mentioned in their role PMs. It might be best if we got those in the open so we can start planning. The flipside to this is scum DO get to also potentially plan their night actions to maximum effect. I'm selfish and reckless, though, so I don't mind taking that chance.
Also, this is a game with minimal specific characters, so scum fakeclaims are likely going to be kept to a minimum OR flavor=/=alignment, in both cases nameclaiming is either beneficial or irrelevant except to help plan our actions out.
At least from my own PM, I know that names can have something to do with vengeance ability triggers. I think it would be a bad idea to give scum open season to turn theirs on by announcing who they should target.
How do you know their ability will unlock if they target someone specific?
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You're correct that haven't played together AFAIK. And that is why I believe Rodemy would be intimidated by Axel. Axel is know for being a strong player whether he is Town or Scum. I know when I first played with him I had my own reservations about approaching him.
Megiddo, Sir Karn, KamikazeArchon, Rodemy, waitingforgodot, Cythare. Also, Wheat voted Proph at one point and then bailed.
Possible scum in order of likeliness: KamikazeArchon (OMGUS vote), waitingforgodot (do something), Cythare (weird timing of vote shortly after being called out by DJ), Megiddo, Sir Karn, Wheat, Rodemy
I don't have more than a light scum read on anyone in that cluster though, although I mentioned at the time I did not like Kamikaze's vote.
Don't care one way or the other (so... 5?). I don't know the source material.
Also, @Everyone: Killjoy is not in this game. Deathjoey is in this game. Let's try to get the names right.
I like dking. Something about his posting style is just very natural, reasonable, and non-suspicious.
I'm also getting the sense Rodemy is one of those hyper-aggressive types who enjoys jumping on people for tiny things and seeing if they crack or not. Not my favorite style, but I guess it's a style.
I don't have anything approaching a strong scum read. I also have zero interest in mass "name-claiming" without some kind of reason.
IIRC, your only experience with Megiddo has been in Celestial Mafia (Castlevania too, but he replaced in at the last minute)
You had no idea what Megiddo was doing D1 of Celestial?
I think it's just a bunch of summarization (the first half) and some questions (the second half). I don't get how this is different from what many other people in the thread are already doing.
Alright, so you might be town. Good.
I don't even understand why Cythare is voting for me. I'll do a dissection of my wagon sometime later today.
No.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That's where I'm at.
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Megiddo has been quieter than expected, but that's fine I guess.
--
Still kinda wanting to vote sir karn atm.
Either way, we're all gonna burn
@Proph: did you say you were trying something different this game? A new style where you just put all your thoughts out there? As opposed to how you usually play? I guess my question is: is this really different from how you usually play? I feel like I need a "Town" game for comparison now.
Karn doesn't seem to have cared that I dodged his question under the pretense of misunderstanding his grammar.
1. I'm very uninterested because from what I remember (and keep in mind I was racing against Iso and JeY_K at the time) was that there weren't really all that many good guys in Iji.
Can you explain your reasoning? I'm seeing name claiming being bad at best.
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/barn
This is usually how I play. I've tried to imitate other playstyles and mostly my attempts at them have gone down poorly. In my last town game, Unreal Tournament, I got apathy-lynched Day 1 by using a very succinct, non-wordy playstyle. My other town game is Porcelain Waltz, where I was in a hydra with Taredas, if you're interested in browsing my meta.
Wheat:
Cythare: I've done so above, but it's easier for me to simply copy and paste responses, so yeah.
Wagon analysis is coming.
@Cythare
In your summary of Proph you mentioned liking Kami's response. Since you only mentioned Kami as a good response you basically are putting Kami in the spotlight that he will be/is Town. I would like for you to break down Kami's post and give a summary of his play this far.
Also, this is a game with minimal specific characters, so scum fakeclaims are likely going to be kept to a minimum OR flavor=/=alignment, in both cases nameclaiming is either beneficial or irrelevant except to help plan our actions out.
Either way, we're all gonna burn
At least from my own PM, I know that names can have something to do with vengeance ability triggers. I think it would be a bad idea to give scum open season to turn theirs on by announcing who they should target.
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Possible scum in order of likeliness: KamikazeArchon (OMGUS vote), waitingforgodot (do something), Cythare (weird timing of vote shortly
[/quote]
Hi, friends. I'm a townie. I'm just staying more observant for now. What is it you'd like me to do?
I don't have a lot of time on hands at the moment. Please quote a post of your prior claiming your read on Kami.
#27: Yes, but that is not a strong tell at all. He simply could have been baiting others for a reaction.
#52: I dislike the fact that you are trying to pair people together this early. Reminds me of my former Scum play.
#70/73: Useless question... basically a null post.
#101: That is a strong town trait for anyone to use.
#139: Contradiction... But all he did was call attention to you and himself. I don't see Scum making this type of play.
#146/165: Null response is what I get from you.
Your leaning Scum read on Kami boils down to things not pointing to a Scum mindset and null reads...
I'd be willing to vote for Cythare as well.
So, I haven't counted posts here, but this almost looks like there is literally not one single thing Proph has said or done this game that you like and only posts that you don't like. Is that about right?
During RVS?
Ok. Do you disagree?
I don't think that useless question = null post.
In the context of other things, sure, but not by itself. It's the primary thing that Kami's been doing, and it allows him to not have to weigh in on others himself.
I guess? Unless he think's he is providing enough content that it won't put him under scrutiny.
Not null per se. See: "pillow-fight blows".
I disagree. Do you think Kami is town, though? The language used in your previous post would have indicated you thinking he was scum.
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Here is the wagon analysis:
RVS vote, but then calls you Town without removing the vote. Possible Scum.
RVS vote that turned non-RVS. Consistantly pushing for your lynch. Possible Town.
Simple and to the point of what he doesn't like about your play. The meta-defense is valid, but not a strong tell. Claiming what he was expecting has me thinking that KA could be Town.
This post makes my head hurt. Bland vote, but Rodemy is giving what he believes is going on. I don't see malicious intent within the post. Possible Town.
@Rodemy
Slow down and please make more sense with your words
And this vote is awful. Possible Scum here.
Either way, we're all gonna burn
Either way, we're all gonna burn
Do you believe it is a strong Scum tell? Or are you surprised that I don't? Either way, it's not out of the normal for someone to try and bait reactions during RVS.
I believe my point is very clear here. You should not be pairing people together like this early on for Day 1. I don't disagree or agree. You pushing the envelope is something I would except from Scum.
Town is just as capable of asking a useless questions as Scum. If anything, I would believe Town to ask more useless questions than Scum because Town doesn't have to worry as much as Scum.
That is bogus. By asking others about a third party, Kami is gaining a read on those answering the question. I'm more willing to believe that Kami has a set read on the third party and asked the questions to others to gauge what they had to say.
That depends on what the rest of the players have to say on this matter. Even then, it wouldn't lead to much other than a bunch of debate and possible spam.
I saw the "pillow-fight blows" and I took that at face value. If it's pillow fight blows, then it's nothing concrete to go on.
Language tell? I reread my last post and there is nothing in there that indicates my read on Kami. My read on Kami is null to leaning Town.
2) I understand your point. I don't agree. If two players look linked to me, I don't see why I shouldn't voice my opinion on it.
3) I agree with your first sentence, but not the rest. Again, I'm looking at little things that add up for me.
4) It's not bogus. I'll happily shut up about this when Kami starts providing his own opinions.
5) Ok?
6) Took it at what face value? I feel like you're not thinking the same thing I am here.
7) "Since you only mentioned Kami as a good response you basically are putting Kami in the spotlight that he will be/is Town. I would like for you to break down Kami's post and give a summary of his play this far." read to me like you were surprised that I would be putting Kami in a Town pile.
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I have experience with the game, but not in this format. I don't plan to lurk all game. I stated I was town and I made my vote. I'm not sure what else you want me to do on this day. I don't feel there's enough evidence for me to make a nice bulleted post about other players yet, which is why I'm still observing.
How do you know their ability will unlock if they target someone specific?
Then why aren't you voting me?
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"At least from my own PM, I know that names can have something to do with vengeance ability triggers"
Do you even read?
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Quick question: whose ability triggers if they get targeted by someone specific and whos get triggered if they target someone. Specific.
Mine gets triggered if i get targeted. Thats why i asked.
Not voting because i'd like proph to die today.
My ability triggers if a specific other character is killed.
If any of the scum have similar triggers, name-claiming gives them information that can help their game plan. Hence, I am opposed.
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My vengeance is triggered if a specific somebody else is killed.
6) Explain what you are thinking.
7) That's what I thought you were doing, but that had nothing to do with my read on Kami.
@Godot
Why do you have a to have a bulleted post to make comments on the game?
Active lurking hurts the Town if you are Town. If you are Scum, then please continue.
@Rodemy
Do you believe you know everything about this game? I'm certain you don't.
I more convinced that Tanarin is Scum than Cythare, but both are good options to vote.