KJ was trying to 'build a case' on me for literally the entire game. ALL he talked about from Day 2 onward was me and how I was scum. None of it ever gained any traction, and it was never going to. He made the same arguments over and over, and I refuted them over and over.
And how are YOU not a dichotomy with fulcrum? You keep wanting to bring up my role because you are just trying to conveniently ignore my drawback, but your role is just 'bulletproof plus'. Sure, you claim that you are limited shot, but there is no actual verification of this. It is fascinating that you can be so hypocritical about this. I guess you feel like you have to be, but most likely this is just you being a bad player and not realizing that the argument that you are making condemns you.
As for LNG. He didn't go out of his way because people clearly just wanted to lynch WG more, and he wanted to lynch WG also. And for you to say that he was 'suspicious' of me is pretty rich. One of his last 5 posts was a detailed explanation of how I couldn't be scum with Sir Chris. There is no way that you missed this if you actually read his posts from yesterday, which is certainly what you are implying here. So why are you trying to pull the wool over our eyes here?
Deadline is currently not set, as it looks like I need to find a replacement for kpaca and depending on when we get one that will decide how much time I'll need to allot that person to catch up.
Just to REALLY bring these points home, here are the last couple of things that LNG had to say. Just in case you guys can't be bothered to look it up.
Ok, just looking at the above, I think Cyan and Sir Chris would have to be pretty ballsy to follow their votes like that so often as scumbuddies. It happened multiple times on multiple wagons, and nearly always Cyan follows Sir Chris.
What really makes me think Wheat is scum is this votecount analysis. He has never voted scum, and look at Pink's wagon. The only people unconfirmed on that wagon are Cyan, Generic, Citric (who is likely town), Wheat and myself. Wheat is the scummiest of the four unknowns, by far. He hasn't been engaged all this game. (As an example, when I posted my first analysis, he lamented the fact that I made myself blue on there, as he said it could be useful... but then he didn't do anything at all with it.)
Additionally, Sir Chris's late swerve yesterDay off the Fulcrum wagon felt forced. He wanted to avoid that wagon for towncred, and I'm guessing he jumped on his scumbuddy Wheat for cred, as he did to both Seppel and Hawk, getting on them early.
On both the Rhand and Fulcrum wagons, Wheat is the fourth person. He didn't really seem to care which of them was the lynch yesterDay.
On Rhand's wagon D2, he got up to L-2 (which was 6 votes). The only known scum is Seppel, and the two unknowns are Cyan and Wheat. On Rhand's wagon D1, Rhand got to 5 votes (L-4), and the only unknowns are Citric and Wheat, with no known scum on the wagon.
Here's the reason why I think Kpaca is the SK. Because none of his votes really do anything. D1, he isn't on the first count, then he's voting DC3 at the end of the Day. On D2, he kept his vote on Seppel all day, but I don't remember him really pushing Seppel off the top of my head. So here comes D3, and surely that slot will vote for Seppel, right? Nope, doesn't vote the whole Day, as Voxx is pretty much completely missing. Kpaca replaces in, and spends most of D4 banging on the table for Rhand's lynch, and then doesn't vote for the end of Day.
There's a chance Kpaca is the last scum, but I would think scum would at least try to generate mislynches, and that slot hasn't really done anything.
Also, I reallllly hated Voxx's "Hey guys I am town" comment upon replacing in.
The last part of the equation is the Generic/Cyan dichotomy. It would be weird for both of those to be town. Behaviorally, I don't see why Cyan would've bussed two of his buddies so hard. My hunches/analysis have been crap so far this game, but still.
Right now I am fine with leaving this dichotomy alone. Assuming the SK is still alive, we could possibly be at 3 left tomorrow. I can't picture a 5 scum + 1 SK game, so there's very likely 1 scum left and 1 SK left. If SK targets town toDay, we could be at 1 town, 1 scum, and 1 SK tomorrow, which would mean town loses either way. (Either town gets lynched, or town lynches SK and scum kills him, or town lynches scum and SK kills him.)
So I want to nail down the SK OR scum today. I think Wheat is the scummiest, and Kpaca is the most likely SK, so those are my two top choices. Since Wheat could be SK too, I am looking at him first.
Still have to finish rereading Sir Chris and his interactions, and then start looking at suspects.
Ultimate conclusion: Pretty clearly does not think that I am scum.
Quote from LNG »
The way I see it, at least one scum/SK is in that grouping, and the other one is likely in the Cyan/Generic grouping. Even with a SK AND a Daykill, four protective roles would be weird.
Followed up with..
Quote from LNG »
One, I don't really see how Cyan can be the SK. KJ flipped town, and confirmed Cyan's redirect ability. Would it make sense for the SK to be able to redirect the NK away from him? He could possibly be an SK with the restriction he stated, whereby he dies if he redirects to a target that dies. That seems awfully convoluted of a role though.
Oh and of course:
That would mean Generic is likely scum or SK, given that four protective type roles is unlikely.
Pretty obvious conclusion of 'Generic is scum' here.
But please Generic, tell us more about this fantasy world you live in where LNG thought I was scum and how you can magically explain me NKing him.
Oh and here is one of WG's last posts:
Quote from WG »
I'm still going to leave my vote on Generic for points.
I'm pretty sure he's scum. I don't *really* buy Cyan's role after Archer but that's partially paranoia.
How many dead townies need to call Generic scum before you other two pull it together and lynch him? One of you is the other scum and is going to win anyway, so let's just get this over with. Generic is scum and his posts have been atrocious any time anyone put any pressure on him. The night that his ghost ability is confirmed active, there was no SK kill. In fact, the SK kills follow an obvious pattern of 'a kill every other night', which paints a really clear picture of 'one night Generic is untargetable, the next night he submits a kill'. If he were really as convinced that I am scum as he is letting on, he would have just lied yesterday and claimed to be targetable. But he didn't, because he is scum and knows that he can't.
You guys shouldn't even need any more evidence, but just in case, don't forget about Sir Chris getting killed. Look at the people who are still alive. Generic is the only one that it would have made even the most REMOTE bit of sense to have submitted an SK kill on Sir Chris. Oh, and he claimed to be a '2 shot' Ghost, which makes **** all zero sense.
The only other alternative today to voting Generic is to vote No Lynch. Neither scum can risk NKing me because the odds of me redirecting their own kill back at them(or me redirecting one scum kill to the other scum) is too high. This means that there is a huge chance that the mafia NKs the SK, or the SK kills the last mafioso at end of day tomorrow.
....
This is actually a great plan now that I think about it, and still allows the town an opening to win the game(albeit a small one, but that is better than the actual zero chance that currently exists). Plus, maybe the SK kill that occurs at the end of today just kills the remaining mafioso. <fingers crossed>
If I were scum of any variety, a no lynch here would hurt me, not help me. How can you possibly be this stupid? Like I literally gain absolutely nothing in this scenario, ESPECIALLY as the SK. If I were the SK, all I would need to do is get anyone lynched today, then when my delayed kill triggers, the game would be at 2 people alive.
Plus, you said it yourself. If I were scum, why would I bother completely writing up a case on you, then trying to sell a no lynch, but..leaving up my case on you? What would be the point?
I love how you just completely drop all of your previous arguments to try this new tack. And the way that you just didn't respond to my complete annihilation of your 'LNG thought we were both scum' is also fantastic.
Like you could not be any more desperately just trying to get ANY lynch to happen here.
NL is the 100% correct course of action here. As the game stands now, the town has lost. There are 2 of us alive to go with an SK and a mafioso. Even if we lynch one scum today, we can't stop the other. But a NL at least creates a window of opportunity for them to cross kill each other. If you were truly town, Generic, you would have realized the wisdom in this. But you didn't stop to think about it, because you are scum. And you know that if you can't off me today, then you can't do so ever, meaning that the best that you can get out of this game, as scum, is a draw. I am absolutely 100% positive that you are scum, but what am I doing now? Pushing for a no lynch, because it is the only way for the TOWN to win.
Man if that is not cherry picking the one statement that sort of supports what you are saying. What about the multiple posts where LNG details why he doesn't think I am scum? Did you miss where he said them AND where I quoted them? Somehow I doubt it. These points are not going to go away, no matter how many awful attempts you make at handwaving them.
And let's just say, hypothetically, that you are right. You and Citric are town. There is literally no actual lynch that can occur today that results in a town win. None whatsoever. At this moment, the town is playing to decide which scum faction wins. And I have accepted that, as long as it is not whichever scumteam you are on. But what happens in a NL? Yes, someone dies today at end of day. That doesn't actually change any game math. But at night, the scum have a tremendous risk of cross-killing each other. What else are they going to do? Not fire? Hope they both know which other players are town and both fire at the same one? Absolute worst case scenario, tomorrow starts and we are in the same boat as today. If I really were the SK and really did have full deflection, why would I *ever* in a million years want to No Lynch today? I would want to lynch absolute any of the 3 of you that I could, because doing so would instantly win me the game(the scum wouldn't even be able to NK me to secure the win for themselves if a scum didn't get lynched today or die to the SK kill that will happen at end of day).
I gain absolutely nothing from suggesting a No Lynch today as scum. Fully zero. It's the exact opposite, in that I would be putting what is likely an inevitable win on the line for absolutely nothing.
As town, you would realize this. Hell, as a good scum player you would realize this. But you are neither of these things. You are scum that is completely painted into a corner and knows that you can't kill me without risking killing yourself in the process, so your only option is to get me lynched. The great part is that it is distinctly possible that you legitimately believe(albeit incorrectly) that I really am scum. In your mind, the town is no longer standing in the way of your win. Only the other scumteam is, which you clearly think is me. But you have given yourself away. There is a mountain of evidence against you, while your entire 'case' against me can be summed up as 'Killjoy was suspicious of you and got NKed'. Which, when unsummarized, is 'Killjoy was suspicious of you for the entire game and got NKed 4 days into it', making your point shockingly less relevant.
I have said everything that I am going to say to you. You are fully exposed and I am through with you. If people see the wisdom in what I am saying and we vote NL then I'll talk to you again tomorrow. But I've had enough Generic for now. It is time for Citric to weigh in here.
Then we get the envious task of sitting around for some excruciating amount of time while we wait for Bur to read an entire 3500 post game just so that he can make probably 5 posts before the game ends. Maybe when the game is over Karn can explain why he didn't just have LNG replace in instead. He clearly had no relevant role info, given that he died Vanilla..and he had read the whole game.
Short question: I recall Cyan claimed redirector that's not immune to NK's, right? Has there been any confirmation to this ability?
Generic claimed 2-shot commuter. Has there been any confirmation to this one either?
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
My redirect ability was verified repeatedly by Milljoy, but obviously the 'dies if a kill is redirected' clause has not been. I attempted to redirect to Generic one night and failed, so his ability to be untargetable is confirmed, but whether or not he actually has 2 shots is unconfirmed. Generic claims that he is out of shots now and that he used one last night.
To speculate, I would say that having 2 shots is a really arbitrary number that makes no sense, and Generic making himself untargetable last night also makes no sense. As the #1 lynch suspect, even if he weren't scum, he would be in no danger of being NKed...and he should have HOPED that the mafia would kill him so that he couldn't be mislynched today.
I apologize, I misunderstood when you said earlier that you were out of shots, and took that as implying that you used one last night, since you didn't say anything about it until today..
And I think that Bur is mafia, and that LNG got NKed by the mod at random because Kpaca didn't actually submit an action. That is just the only thing that makes sense of LNG being NKed. Well, or you are mafia, but I really don't see that. I'm completely sold on you being the SK. I really just don't understand why Citric is alive. He was by far the correct mafia NK for last night. Like..no one else is even in the conversation. LNG being NKed is completely mistifying. Earlier I considered the possibility that Citric is the last scum, but between brief moments of townieness in his posting + his role I just can't see this being the case.
Oh but of course, you added in not being nk immune later when iilljoy was attacking you over the dichotomy... Weird how on the night you claimed you were targeting me the scum didn't take a two for one opportunity, whether they suspected I would use my commute or not.
Or because they thought that someone like you would be like 'OMG KILLJOY GOT NKED CYAN MUST HAVE DONE IT' and not realize that it was just another of the many WIFOM games the mafia has shown a tendency for this game. If I was mafia not a single of the night kills that they submitted would have happened(except for dkings maybe, but the rest all sucked). I wouldn't have Vanilla'ized Rhand either, I would have just ignored him and let the town's skepticism grow when he just kept not dying, saving that ability to use on someone that could actually do something. The scum basically gambled that the town would not have a Vig when they used that ability on Rhand, which is a bad gamble to take in a game this size.
I also would have bussed Seppel the SECOND that he claimed that 'neutral hunter' role and would have counter-claimed him as Survivor if we had been scumbuddies. It's unfortunate for me that we weren't, because that claim would have worked like an absolute charm at that time. I thought about counter-claiming him as Survivor ANYWAY when people were stubbornly trying to keep him alive for awhile longer. Fortunately this didn't end up being necessary. I don't really like making plays like that as town anymore.
You can feel free to ready the quicklinks for any of the games where I have been mafia recently to see what my mindset is like when I am mafia. I am really not a 'WIFOM' type of player as mafia. It is just not ideal.
And I revealed the drawback to my role when it was prudent to do so. I don't need 'how to play mafia' lessons from you, because frankly, you're not that good at it. Anyway, I honestly expected the scum to NK me. They should have, the game would likely be over at this point if they did. I would have flipped town and then you would have gotten lynched once there was 100% proof that I was telling the truth about my role and it's drawback. But I suppose that whomever is scum thought that Sir Chris getting revealed would make me look bad, so they didn't bother, and instead again tried to play subpar WIFOM games. And then when LNG pointed out why Sir Chris and I couldn't have been scumbuddies, he died immediately afterwards, destroying that scum ploy.
@Cyan: Or how about this reason for why LnGr got killed: You NK'd him so that you could use it as a reasoning "I can't be mafia since it wouldn't make sense for me to kill LnGr". Especially how hard you are trying to push that as a reason why you can't be mafia.
But, argh, this game makes my head hurt already. This game is currently less about who is mafia/poisoner and more of a guessing who, if anyone, will die of poison this evening...
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
@Bur: If you look at LNG's posts yesterday, it's not that hard to realize that I would never, ever want to kill him. I just wouldn't. There is nothing to gain from it. The only person alive right now that would have wanted LNG dead after yesterday is Generic. This isn't WIFOM, it's just common sense. If I am scum here, we are talking about a final game day where I just need a really small edge to win the game. That edge is much more easily reached by LNG be alive than it is by him being dead. This is just logical.
And there is no mafia poisoner. There is an SK.
And man is this ironic. Here I am, appealing to one guy that might be scum(Bur) to try to get him to lynch another guy that definitely is(Generic). And in the end my team(the town) will lose no matter what. What a waste of time and energy.
Maybe Citric will flip scum in the end. It seems pretty unlikely, but at least he played his role well and would actually deserve to win this game.
This is just so...stupid.
@Generic: I provided multiple reasons as to why you are scum. You addressed absolutely none of them. If I really needed to, I could go through the whole game and build a cohesive case, and you know it. But that really shouldn't be necessary. And as much as I dislike you, I am not putting that much effort into this when the town is just going to lose either way.
Now I know all is lost and because cyan is such a punk, I maintain I want to lynch him. Whether he is scum or SK, I don't want him to win
I lol'ed. It's been what, 48 hours since I made this same statement regarding you and you tried to call foul on me for it? So you're a raging hypocrite on top of everything else. Good to know.
And there is plenty of evidence pointing to you being the SK, none of which you have ever 'disputed'. I made an entire post(and that was just the most recent one, nevermind everything else) and your whole response was just to ask who I think the OTHER scum is. I wonder why you could be asking that. Surely not to try and get that person to help you mislynch me. It's pitiful how predictable you are.
Like I don't know how much more clear it could be. You are the only person that would want to kill Sir Chris. On BOTH nights when you claim to have activated your 'commuter' mode, there was no SK kill. Stuff like this is not a coincidence. And the idea that I would have tried to SK you on any of those night is ridiculous.
Oh, and tit for tat. Who do YOU think the other scum is?
@Cyan: How does your redirection ability work with poison?
If I redirect any ability and it kills the player that I am redirecting to, we both die.
@Generic: So you say that you think Bur is mafia. But you disagree with my assertion that the mod have have randomly NKed someone when Kpaca just didn't show up(I agree that this is unorthodox behavior, but I don't know what other explanation there could be). So you think that Kpaca, despite not posting at any point during Day 5 and then being replaced today, showed up just long enough to submit the scum team's NK. And he chose..LNG.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
Also, feel free to point out what I 'made up' about you. Go ahead. Did I make up the part where LNG said yesterday that you are the more likely of the two of us to be scum? Did I make up the part where WG left his vote on you as he was being lynched 'because league points'? Did I make up the part where you are the only person that would have had any reason for killing Sir Chris? You are claiming now that you think I am the SK. So you think that *I* killed Sir Chris? How does that track at all? Did I make up the part where there was no SK kill on both nights that you claim to have 'activated' your ability to be untargetable? Please do tell. Exactly what here am I 'making up'?
You are caught scum and you know it. And I will keep pointing these things out until Bur and Citric come around.
I think you are Mafia. How about you ******* read what I wrote about occums razor and he missing kills matching the ******* absenses on that slot?
Just ******* lynch me. I'm sick, I'm depressed and I have just about had enough of cyan either so ******* stupid he can't interpret my posts or so ******* lazy he can't even misrep me without being obvious.
I'm done.
Ohhhh so I'm back to being mafia now. How convenient.
This post is as defeatist as it gets. Like seriously, Citric and Bur, what exactly is it going to take for you to realize that I am right here?
Also, if you think that Bur is the SK, that means that there was no SK kill submitted last night(because Kpaca very obviously was not around), and my suggestion that we No Lynch for today becomes that much better. This is the same NL plan that, again, is the only way that the town can win this game right now. But hey, tell me more about how this somehow would make me scum.
@Cyan: Here's the thing. I've gone through all possible scenarios for today, and what is the correct way to win through all these scenarios.
No poison-induced death scenarios:
We lynch SK: Mafia wins. We lynch Mafia: No death at night. Next day we kill SK.
We lynch town: Mafia wins (no matter who they NK).
Poison-induced death scenarios:
Poison kills SK: Not happening in any realistic scenario. Poison kills mafia: Either we lynch SK or no lynch and kill him the next day.
Poison kills town: If we kill SK, mafia wins. If we kill SK, mafia wins. If we no lynch, mafia still wins.
Poison-induced death scenarios where Cyan has redirected the poison:
Both townies die: Mafia wins. No hope left. Town and SK die: We kill mafia.
Town and mafia die: We kill SK.
Mafia and SK die: No matter what, town wins.
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
The scenario that we are 'most likely' in is that the SK submitted some kill last night, meaning that we will have 2 alive going to night. Which is an auto-loss for the town, unless we lynch the SK *and* he happened to have submitted his kill on the last mafioso. Or if we lynch the last mafia and the SK just didn't kill at all. Neither of these situations seem particularly likely, and in particular counting on the last bit seems like madness. Is it possible that the SK submitted their kill on the last remaining mafia? Sure it is. But we can't exactly bank on that. This is why I want to NL today. I'll admit that it's an unlikely scenario where the town pulls this out, but IMO this is the town's best chance at doing so. And admittedly, it's a slim bet. But it seems a million times better than the combined 'hope we kill exactly the last mafioso and the SK didn't submit a kill last night'.
Because like..Generic is the SK for realsies, and he 100% submitted a kill last night. His behavior today makes this completely obvious.
Generic 2 nights ago(ability failed, despite the fact that Generic begrudgingly let on that he would allow himself to be targeted by me, in case the mafia tried to NK me..this would have removed us both as possible mislynch candidates). Targeted Kpaca last night because I no longer trusted Generic and Kpaca was the most likely other person to be scum of some variety.
Because my ability makes it too dangerous for the scum to risk NKing me last night/now. I explained this when I initially suggested that we vote no lynch for today. I just can't see the SK having targeted me last night.
Of course, I am still really surprised that LNG got NKed, but the SK risking targeting me would be a whole new level of crazy awfulness. But ultimately I don't think that this is likely enough that it needs to be factored in.
Pondering, what's probably going to happen tonight. I'm quite sure one of us dies to poison, if this even-evening theory is correct.
Now, if we assume SK is a rationale player wanting to win, they know they'd have to aim for mafia in order to have any chance of winning, so they didn't poison you Citric (unless they are really convinced you are mafia indeed).
And considering how Cyan targetted me last night, there's 3 options who will die. Me, Generic or me and Cyan.
If it's me and Cyan, we need to kill Generic to win.
If it's Generic, either no lynch or lynch Cyan.
If it's me, we are playing Kingmaker.
Now, I'm wondering if there's any chance SK decided to risk it and target Cyan with poison (assuming SK is not Cyan)...
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
I'm not really sold on it. I'm trying to figure out whether we are in kingmaker or not at the moment. The more and more I'm looking, the more assured I am that Cyan is mafia and Generic SK. Now, the biggest question is whether Generic took the risk and poisoned Cyan or not.
If Generic poisoned Citric, we are in Kingmaker.
If Generic poisoned me, we are in Kingmaker.
If Generic poisoned Cyan (and me), we win by lynching Generic.
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
NL is a great plan. There is a reasonable chance that Bur is scum of some variety, and going to night here should help resolve that. If no one gets SK'ed, that means that Bur is all but guaranteed to BE the SK(and Kpaca just missed a kill). If someone does get SKed, there is a very good chance that it will be Bur, because he would have just been an easy target. And I'm positive that he is scum of some variety at this point, so.
Thank you. This makes it easier for me. Vote Cyan.
NL is a great plan. There is a reasonable chance that Bur is scum of some variety, and going to night here should help resolve that. If no one gets SK'ed, that means that Bur is all but guaranteed to BE the SK(and Kpaca just missed a kill). If someone does get SKed, there is a very good chance that it will be Bur, because he would have just been an easy target. And I'm positive that he is scum of some variety at this point, so.
NL is not a great plan. Choosing NL gives mafia the highest chance of winning, instead of anyone else. If a town dies today, mafia wins by going to night.
NL is only valid plan if no one is going to die of poison, and even then lynching the mafia (you) is better plan.
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
@Generic: It didn't make me agree. I've been thinking that Cyan is mafia for a good while now. It was just the last straw.
And about SK: The way I see it, you are SK and Cyan is mafia.
If you poisoned Citric, we are in Kingmaker.
If you poisoned me, we are in Kingmaker.
If you poisoned yourself... not happening.
If you poisoned Cyan, me and Cyan die today, killing you is the correct option.
... but would you be willing to take the risk and poison Cyan? Especially since he's redirector, there's a chance you'd end up killing yourself...
So, most likely we are in kingmaker and if it comes to that, I'd prefer to let SK win instead of mafia.
Of course there's still the small chance that no one dies of poison tonight, and we lynch you tomorrow, Generic.
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
So let's recap. I declare you both scum, and in response you both vote me. Including Generic doing so in spite of the fact that he previously agreed that we should be voting NL.
Yeahhhhh nothing suspicious about all of that. You guys couldn't be any more obviously scum and just hoping that you can dupe Citric into going along with it. In Generic's case, I can literally see him rubbing his hands together like an evil villain here.
The best part, Generic, is how you realize that the town is dead with any lynch today(other than a no lynch), but then you go ahead and vote me anyway.
I also enjoy the part where you guys think that I'm mafia, but don't even bother trying to reconcile this with me putting forth a NL. Why would I ever want this as scum? I would just commit myself to getting Generic lynched and be done with it. Especially with an SK in the game that could just kill me at night and prevent me from winning.
No lynch does not hand the scum the win. We have gone over this. There is a huge likelihood that the scum just kill each other at night. Lynching any person hands a scum the win.
Like literally, the only way that the town wins this game, with a lynch today, is if the last mafioso exactly is lynched AND the SK did not submit a kill last night. This is so incredibly unlikely that only a scum(that's you Generic) would push it as a reasonable possibility.
Anyway. Bur is very obviously the last mafia. Look at the statement by me that he quoted. He thinks you are the SK, but was concerned that a kill you sent my way would direct back to him and kill him. This could not be more apparent from the questions that he asked me + the statement that you quoted. Just stop being stubborn for one second here and figure this out.
How come no lynch doesn't hand over the win to mafia? Especially this part.
There is a huge likelihood that the scum just kill each other at night.
Yeah, since SK's poison had every time killed during night...
Come on. It's pretty likely someone dies today and if we opt No Lynch, here's what happens based on who dies.
If it's mafia, tomorrow it's town-town-SK. It's the same as if we just kill you now.
If it's town, we go into night town-mafia-SK, and mafia just needs to make a kill to win. It doesn't matter who, as tomorrow it's 1-vs-1. Mafia wins.
And no, I don't see any realistic scenario where SK kills himself with poison.
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Wait. Why should we Lynch rather than no Lynch? I think you both just scum-claimed
Argh. Let's go all over again all these possible scenarios.
No poison:
We kill SK -> Mafia wins.
We kill mafia -> If we lynch SK next day, town wins.
We kill town -> Mafia wins.
No lynch -> Depends on night actions, but either we end up in town-town-mafia or town-mafia-SK. In first case, we still have a chance. In latter, we are playing Kingmaker.
Poison:
No lynch:
SK gets poisoned -> Not happening
Mafia gets poisoned -> Tomorrow we are in town-town-SK. If we lynch SK, we win.
Town gets poisoned -> Mafia wins.
Mafia lynched: If poison hits town, SK wins. If not, we have a chance.
SK lynched: If poison hits mafia, we win. Otherwise, we lose.
Town lynched: If poison hit another town, mafia wins. If poison hits mafia, SK wins.
Unless you believe no one is going to be poisoned today, I don't see why you want to No Lynch. In that roulette, town is 2/3 to lose and 1/3 to get extra chance to lynch SK. And even if there is no poisoning today, with no lynch, we are have only 1/3 chance to win.
And this is not assuming that mafia knows how to play and chooses a correct player to kill during the night (which would be you, Citric).
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
No lynch:
SK gets poisoned -> Not happening
Mafia gets poisoned -> Tomorrow we are in town-town-SK. If we lynch SK, we win.
Town gets poisoned -> Mafia wins.
This is not correct. If we no lynch today and a townie dies, the town can still win if the mafia and the SK target each other at night. And the odds of this aren't that bad. In fact, the SK basically has to target the person that they think is mafia to avoid a draw. The odds of this are certainly better than hoping that we lynch exactly the last mafia today AND there is no kill tonight. I don't know how you can even make this argument with a straight face. This is all particularly easy for me to say, because I know I'm not mafia, but I'm at L-1 and all.
You know that NL is correct, Citric. Please don't get suckered by the actual 2 scum that just want someone to die today to ensure that one of them wins. You read the situation completely correct in assessing that they basically just claimed scum.
No lynch:
SK gets poisoned -> Not happening
Mafia gets poisoned -> Tomorrow we are in town-town-SK. If we lynch SK, we win.
Town gets poisoned -> Mafia wins.
This is not correct. If we no lynch today and a townie dies, the town can still win if the mafia and the SK target each other at night. And the odds of this aren't that bad. In fact, the SK basically has to target the person that they think is mafia to avoid a draw. The odds of this are certainly better than hoping that we lynch exactly the last mafia today AND there is no kill tonight. I don't know how you can even make this argument with a straight face. This is all particularly easy for me to say, because I know I'm not mafia, but I'm at L-1 and all.
You know that NL is correct, Citric. Please don't get suckered by the actual 2 scum that just want someone to die today to ensure that one of them wins. You read the situation completely correct in assessing that they basically just claimed scum.
Please, stop bull*****ting. Thank you!
If things worked like that, I would've already asked you guys to lynch me today to ensure town win. However, since mafia's kills happen immidiately and SK's poisoning takes time, it will end up like this:
Night. Mafia NK's SK. SK poisons Mafia.
Morning after. Poisoned mafia and town are alone. Half of the players left alive are mafia. Mafia wins.
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Nope, that is not how it would work. What happens there is that the game stalls out until end of day, and then the SK trigger happens and someone dies. I have already verified this, on a hypothetical basis, with the Mod, when I first thought about voting NL.
But quick, feel free to try and tell me why I would do that, as mafia, and then suggest this plan anyway.
Mafia games don't really end the second that the # of scum = the # of town. They win as soon as the mafia win is inevitable, which is USUALLY at the moment when their #s equal the non-mafia #s. But when mitigating factors exist, the game continues. I'm disappointed to even have to be explaining this, but not particularly surprised.
You certainly look caught with your hand in the cookie jar now, though. What's wrong, Bur? How much were you banking on an SK kill occuring tonight and then you just being able to kill whomever you want overnight to instantly win the game?
In case it's not just really, really obvious to the rest of you, Bur is mafia here. Either Kpaca submitted a kill before Karn replaced him, or the Mod chose for him. His strategy here literally could not be more apparent, and this only makes sense if he is mafia exactly. As any other alignment, he would have checked with the Mod first and realized that he is wrong. But no, he is trying to strongarm us here because it is his only actual chance to win the game now.
And all of that having been said..we should still no lynch and hope that the scum team do what they have to do and help kill each other. Lynching Bur now and letting SK-Generic win is the worst result imaginable.
When this game is over, even if your scum team wins, I am going to go through and quote all of the times that you incorrectly made that 'kill immune' bull***** statement and rub in your face the fact that you were wrong about it. Every. Single. Time. Because even though you are trying to falsely sell me as scum here, I know that you actually believe that I am kill immune. Because that is how much of a complete and utter idiot you are.
Try to remember that, when I first revealed the drawback of my role, Sir Chris was still alive, and we did not know about the existence of the SK. So if I am mafia here, that means that, in my mind, we are about to head into lynch or lose with myself + Sir Chris vs. 4 townies. Why would I have even bothered to provide this information, which only throws doubt onto my own role? Do you *really* think that I couldn't have just lynched fulcrum and swung a lynch on you the next day? Really? Especially if I presumed Sir Chris would still be alive to help me, and he was widely regarded as the most town person in the game? And why would I have suggested my whole 'I'll redirect to you and hopefully the scum will kill both of us' plan there? Do you EVER stop for even two ******* seconds and say to yourself, "Why would this person do this as mafia?"
I actually forgot that the scum would have known that they didn't kill Hunger, but oh well. You'll probably just try to spin that into some convoluted nonsense too. I like how you say I have 'no one able to halt kills' while simultaneously 'believing' that I can't actually be killed ever. Meaning that I myself can halt kills.
Nevermind that the Mod would have had to let me act twice in one night on multiple occasions for me to be scum. Nevermind a million things that I have pointed out that you are just conveniently ignoring. I'm done talking to you, because you're scum anyway, and too committed now to be able to come down from your 'stance'. I've only bothered responding to you at all today so that Citric could see how full of crap you are.
No, I'm just assuming that your commute is not an activated ability in the first place, because you having that as a random 2 shot ability sounds literally as made-up as is humanly possible.
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And how are YOU not a dichotomy with fulcrum? You keep wanting to bring up my role because you are just trying to conveniently ignore my drawback, but your role is just 'bulletproof plus'. Sure, you claim that you are limited shot, but there is no actual verification of this. It is fascinating that you can be so hypocritical about this. I guess you feel like you have to be, but most likely this is just you being a bad player and not realizing that the argument that you are making condemns you.
As for LNG. He didn't go out of his way because people clearly just wanted to lynch WG more, and he wanted to lynch WG also. And for you to say that he was 'suspicious' of me is pretty rich. One of his last 5 posts was a detailed explanation of how I couldn't be scum with Sir Chris. There is no way that you missed this if you actually read his posts from yesterday, which is certainly what you are implying here. So why are you trying to pull the wool over our eyes here?
Also V/LA because Final Exams til Wednesday
Ultimate conclusion: Pretty clearly does not think that I am scum.
Followed up with..
Oh and of course:
Pretty obvious conclusion of 'Generic is scum' here.
But please Generic, tell us more about this fantasy world you live in where LNG thought I was scum and how you can magically explain me NKing him.
Oh and here is one of WG's last posts:
How many dead townies need to call Generic scum before you other two pull it together and lynch him? One of you is the other scum and is going to win anyway, so let's just get this over with. Generic is scum and his posts have been atrocious any time anyone put any pressure on him. The night that his ghost ability is confirmed active, there was no SK kill. In fact, the SK kills follow an obvious pattern of 'a kill every other night', which paints a really clear picture of 'one night Generic is untargetable, the next night he submits a kill'. If he were really as convinced that I am scum as he is letting on, he would have just lied yesterday and claimed to be targetable. But he didn't, because he is scum and knows that he can't.
You guys shouldn't even need any more evidence, but just in case, don't forget about Sir Chris getting killed. Look at the people who are still alive. Generic is the only one that it would have made even the most REMOTE bit of sense to have submitted an SK kill on Sir Chris. Oh, and he claimed to be a '2 shot' Ghost, which makes **** all zero sense.
The only other alternative today to voting Generic is to vote No Lynch. Neither scum can risk NKing me because the odds of me redirecting their own kill back at them(or me redirecting one scum kill to the other scum) is too high. This means that there is a huge chance that the mafia NKs the SK, or the SK kills the last mafioso at end of day tomorrow.
....
This is actually a great plan now that I think about it, and still allows the town an opening to win the game(albeit a small one, but that is better than the actual zero chance that currently exists). Plus, maybe the SK kill that occurs at the end of today just kills the remaining mafioso. <fingers crossed>
Unvote, Vote No Lynch
Plus, you said it yourself. If I were scum, why would I bother completely writing up a case on you, then trying to sell a no lynch, but..leaving up my case on you? What would be the point?
I love how you just completely drop all of your previous arguments to try this new tack. And the way that you just didn't respond to my complete annihilation of your 'LNG thought we were both scum' is also fantastic.
Like you could not be any more desperately just trying to get ANY lynch to happen here.
NL is the 100% correct course of action here. As the game stands now, the town has lost. There are 2 of us alive to go with an SK and a mafioso. Even if we lynch one scum today, we can't stop the other. But a NL at least creates a window of opportunity for them to cross kill each other. If you were truly town, Generic, you would have realized the wisdom in this. But you didn't stop to think about it, because you are scum. And you know that if you can't off me today, then you can't do so ever, meaning that the best that you can get out of this game, as scum, is a draw. I am absolutely 100% positive that you are scum, but what am I doing now? Pushing for a no lynch, because it is the only way for the TOWN to win.
Deadline is now set to December 21st at 8pm ET.
Citric, would you like to tell me what are your current thoughts?
And let's just say, hypothetically, that you are right. You and Citric are town. There is literally no actual lynch that can occur today that results in a town win. None whatsoever. At this moment, the town is playing to decide which scum faction wins. And I have accepted that, as long as it is not whichever scumteam you are on. But what happens in a NL? Yes, someone dies today at end of day. That doesn't actually change any game math. But at night, the scum have a tremendous risk of cross-killing each other. What else are they going to do? Not fire? Hope they both know which other players are town and both fire at the same one? Absolute worst case scenario, tomorrow starts and we are in the same boat as today. If I really were the SK and really did have full deflection, why would I *ever* in a million years want to No Lynch today? I would want to lynch absolute any of the 3 of you that I could, because doing so would instantly win me the game(the scum wouldn't even be able to NK me to secure the win for themselves if a scum didn't get lynched today or die to the SK kill that will happen at end of day).
I gain absolutely nothing from suggesting a No Lynch today as scum. Fully zero. It's the exact opposite, in that I would be putting what is likely an inevitable win on the line for absolutely nothing.
As town, you would realize this. Hell, as a good scum player you would realize this. But you are neither of these things. You are scum that is completely painted into a corner and knows that you can't kill me without risking killing yourself in the process, so your only option is to get me lynched. The great part is that it is distinctly possible that you legitimately believe(albeit incorrectly) that I really am scum. In your mind, the town is no longer standing in the way of your win. Only the other scumteam is, which you clearly think is me. But you have given yourself away. There is a mountain of evidence against you, while your entire 'case' against me can be summed up as 'Killjoy was suspicious of you and got NKed'. Which, when unsummarized, is 'Killjoy was suspicious of you for the entire game and got NKed 4 days into it', making your point shockingly less relevant.
I have said everything that I am going to say to you. You are fully exposed and I am through with you. If people see the wisdom in what I am saying and we vote NL then I'll talk to you again tomorrow. But I've had enough Generic for now. It is time for Citric to weigh in here.
Then we get the envious task of sitting around for some excruciating amount of time while we wait for Bur to read an entire 3500 post game just so that he can make probably 5 posts before the game ends. Maybe when the game is over Karn can explain why he didn't just have LNG replace in instead. He clearly had no relevant role info, given that he died Vanilla..and he had read the whole game.
Generic claimed 2-shot commuter. Has there been any confirmation to this one either?
To speculate, I would say that having 2 shots is a really arbitrary number that makes no sense, and Generic making himself untargetable last night also makes no sense. As the #1 lynch suspect, even if he weren't scum, he would be in no danger of being NKed...and he should have HOPED that the mafia would kill him so that he couldn't be mislynched today.
And I think that Bur is mafia, and that LNG got NKed by the mod at random because Kpaca didn't actually submit an action. That is just the only thing that makes sense of LNG being NKed. Well, or you are mafia, but I really don't see that. I'm completely sold on you being the SK. I really just don't understand why Citric is alive. He was by far the correct mafia NK for last night. Like..no one else is even in the conversation. LNG being NKed is completely mistifying. Earlier I considered the possibility that Citric is the last scum, but between brief moments of townieness in his posting + his role I just can't see this being the case.
Or because they thought that someone like you would be like 'OMG KILLJOY GOT NKED CYAN MUST HAVE DONE IT' and not realize that it was just another of the many WIFOM games the mafia has shown a tendency for this game. If I was mafia not a single of the night kills that they submitted would have happened(except for dkings maybe, but the rest all sucked). I wouldn't have Vanilla'ized Rhand either, I would have just ignored him and let the town's skepticism grow when he just kept not dying, saving that ability to use on someone that could actually do something. The scum basically gambled that the town would not have a Vig when they used that ability on Rhand, which is a bad gamble to take in a game this size.
I also would have bussed Seppel the SECOND that he claimed that 'neutral hunter' role and would have counter-claimed him as Survivor if we had been scumbuddies. It's unfortunate for me that we weren't, because that claim would have worked like an absolute charm at that time. I thought about counter-claiming him as Survivor ANYWAY when people were stubbornly trying to keep him alive for awhile longer. Fortunately this didn't end up being necessary. I don't really like making plays like that as town anymore.
You can feel free to ready the quicklinks for any of the games where I have been mafia recently to see what my mindset is like when I am mafia. I am really not a 'WIFOM' type of player as mafia. It is just not ideal.
And I revealed the drawback to my role when it was prudent to do so. I don't need 'how to play mafia' lessons from you, because frankly, you're not that good at it. Anyway, I honestly expected the scum to NK me. They should have, the game would likely be over at this point if they did. I would have flipped town and then you would have gotten lynched once there was 100% proof that I was telling the truth about my role and it's drawback. But I suppose that whomever is scum thought that Sir Chris getting revealed would make me look bad, so they didn't bother, and instead again tried to play subpar WIFOM games. And then when LNG pointed out why Sir Chris and I couldn't have been scumbuddies, he died immediately afterwards, destroying that scum ploy.
But, argh, this game makes my head hurt already. This game is currently less about who is mafia/poisoner and more of a guessing who, if anyone, will die of poison this evening...
And there is no mafia poisoner. There is an SK.
And man is this ironic. Here I am, appealing to one guy that might be scum(Bur) to try to get him to lynch another guy that definitely is(Generic). And in the end my team(the town) will lose no matter what. What a waste of time and energy.
Maybe Citric will flip scum in the end. It seems pretty unlikely, but at least he played his role well and would actually deserve to win this game.
This is just so...stupid.
@Generic: I provided multiple reasons as to why you are scum. You addressed absolutely none of them. If I really needed to, I could go through the whole game and build a cohesive case, and you know it. But that really shouldn't be necessary. And as much as I dislike you, I am not putting that much effort into this when the town is just going to lose either way.
I lol'ed. It's been what, 48 hours since I made this same statement regarding you and you tried to call foul on me for it? So you're a raging hypocrite on top of everything else. Good to know.
And there is plenty of evidence pointing to you being the SK, none of which you have ever 'disputed'. I made an entire post(and that was just the most recent one, nevermind everything else) and your whole response was just to ask who I think the OTHER scum is. I wonder why you could be asking that. Surely not to try and get that person to help you mislynch me. It's pitiful how predictable you are.
Like I don't know how much more clear it could be. You are the only person that would want to kill Sir Chris. On BOTH nights when you claim to have activated your 'commuter' mode, there was no SK kill. Stuff like this is not a coincidence. And the idea that I would have tried to SK you on any of those night is ridiculous.
Oh, and tit for tat. Who do YOU think the other scum is?
If I redirect any ability and it kills the player that I am redirecting to, we both die.
@Generic: So you say that you think Bur is mafia. But you disagree with my assertion that the mod have have randomly NKed someone when Kpaca just didn't show up(I agree that this is unorthodox behavior, but I don't know what other explanation there could be). So you think that Kpaca, despite not posting at any point during Day 5 and then being replaced today, showed up just long enough to submit the scum team's NK. And he chose..LNG.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
Also, feel free to point out what I 'made up' about you. Go ahead. Did I make up the part where LNG said yesterday that you are the more likely of the two of us to be scum? Did I make up the part where WG left his vote on you as he was being lynched 'because league points'? Did I make up the part where you are the only person that would have had any reason for killing Sir Chris? You are claiming now that you think I am the SK. So you think that *I* killed Sir Chris? How does that track at all? Did I make up the part where there was no SK kill on both nights that you claim to have 'activated' your ability to be untargetable? Please do tell. Exactly what here am I 'making up'?
You are caught scum and you know it. And I will keep pointing these things out until Bur and Citric come around.
Ohhhh so I'm back to being mafia now. How convenient.
This post is as defeatist as it gets. Like seriously, Citric and Bur, what exactly is it going to take for you to realize that I am right here?
Also, if you think that Bur is the SK, that means that there was no SK kill submitted last night(because Kpaca very obviously was not around), and my suggestion that we No Lynch for today becomes that much better. This is the same NL plan that, again, is the only way that the town can win this game right now. But hey, tell me more about how this somehow would make me scum.
@Bur: That is correct. Why are you asking?
No poison-induced death scenarios:
We lynch SK: Mafia wins.
We lynch Mafia: No death at night. Next day we kill SK.
We lynch town: Mafia wins (no matter who they NK).
Poison-induced death scenarios:
Poison kills SK: Not happening in any realistic scenario.
Poison kills mafia: Either we lynch SK or no lynch and kill him the next day.
Poison kills town: If we kill SK, mafia wins. If we kill SK, mafia wins. If we no lynch, mafia still wins.
Poison-induced death scenarios where Cyan has redirected the poison:
Both townies die: Mafia wins. No hope left.
Town and SK die: We kill mafia.
Town and mafia die: We kill SK.
Mafia and SK die: No matter what, town wins.
Because like..Generic is the SK for realsies, and he 100% submitted a kill last night. His behavior today makes this completely obvious.
I wanted to read through first but my gut instinct without rereading at all is a no Lynch is best.
Of course, I am still really surprised that LNG got NKed, but the SK risking targeting me would be a whole new level of crazy awfulness. But ultimately I don't think that this is likely enough that it needs to be factored in.
Now, if we assume SK is a rationale player wanting to win, they know they'd have to aim for mafia in order to have any chance of winning, so they didn't poison you Citric (unless they are really convinced you are mafia indeed).
And considering how Cyan targetted me last night, there's 3 options who will die. Me, Generic or me and Cyan.
If it's me and Cyan, we need to kill Generic to win.
If it's Generic, either no lynch or lynch Cyan.
If it's me, we are playing Kingmaker.
Now, I'm wondering if there's any chance SK decided to risk it and target Cyan with poison (assuming SK is not Cyan)...
If Generic poisoned Citric, we are in Kingmaker.
If Generic poisoned me, we are in Kingmaker.
If Generic poisoned Cyan (and me), we win by lynching Generic.
NL is a great plan. There is a reasonable chance that Bur is scum of some variety, and going to night here should help resolve that. If no one gets SK'ed, that means that Bur is all but guaranteed to BE the SK(and Kpaca just missed a kill). If someone does get SKed, there is a very good chance that it will be Bur, because he would have just been an easy target. And I'm positive that he is scum of some variety at this point, so.
Thank you. This makes it easier for me.
Vote Cyan.
NL is not a great plan. Choosing NL gives mafia the highest chance of winning, instead of anyone else. If a town dies today, mafia wins by going to night.
NL is only valid plan if no one is going to die of poison, and even then lynching the mafia (you) is better plan.
And about SK: The way I see it, you are SK and Cyan is mafia.
If you poisoned Citric, we are in Kingmaker.
If you poisoned me, we are in Kingmaker.
If you poisoned yourself... not happening.
If you poisoned Cyan, me and Cyan die today, killing you is the correct option.
... but would you be willing to take the risk and poison Cyan? Especially since he's redirector, there's a chance you'd end up killing yourself...
So, most likely we are in kingmaker and if it comes to that, I'd prefer to let SK win instead of mafia.
Of course there's still the small chance that no one dies of poison tonight, and we lynch you tomorrow, Generic.
Yeahhhhh nothing suspicious about all of that. You guys couldn't be any more obviously scum and just hoping that you can dupe Citric into going along with it. In Generic's case, I can literally see him rubbing his hands together like an evil villain here.
The best part, Generic, is how you realize that the town is dead with any lynch today(other than a no lynch), but then you go ahead and vote me anyway.
I also enjoy the part where you guys think that I'm mafia, but don't even bother trying to reconcile this with me putting forth a NL. Why would I ever want this as scum? I would just commit myself to getting Generic lynched and be done with it. Especially with an SK in the game that could just kill me at night and prevent me from winning.
You guys literally could not be any more obvious.
Like literally, the only way that the town wins this game, with a lynch today, is if the last mafioso exactly is lynched AND the SK did not submit a kill last night. This is so incredibly unlikely that only a scum(that's you Generic) would push it as a reasonable possibility.
Anyway. Bur is very obviously the last mafia. Look at the statement by me that he quoted. He thinks you are the SK, but was concerned that a kill you sent my way would direct back to him and kill him. This could not be more apparent from the questions that he asked me + the statement that you quoted. Just stop being stubborn for one second here and figure this out.
How come no lynch doesn't hand over the win to mafia? Especially this part.
Yeah, since SK's poison had every time killed during night...
Come on. It's pretty likely someone dies today and if we opt No Lynch, here's what happens based on who dies.
If it's mafia, tomorrow it's town-town-SK. It's the same as if we just kill you now.
If it's town, we go into night town-mafia-SK, and mafia just needs to make a kill to win. It doesn't matter who, as tomorrow it's 1-vs-1. Mafia wins.
And no, I don't see any realistic scenario where SK kills himself with poison.
I think I'm willing to hammer Cyan but I want to think a bit more first
Argh. Let's go all over again all these possible scenarios.
No poison:
We kill SK -> Mafia wins.
We kill mafia -> If we lynch SK next day, town wins.
We kill town -> Mafia wins.
No lynch -> Depends on night actions, but either we end up in town-town-mafia or town-mafia-SK. In first case, we still have a chance. In latter, we are playing Kingmaker.
Poison:
No lynch:
SK gets poisoned -> Not happening
Mafia gets poisoned -> Tomorrow we are in town-town-SK. If we lynch SK, we win.
Town gets poisoned -> Mafia wins.
Mafia lynched: If poison hits town, SK wins. If not, we have a chance.
SK lynched: If poison hits mafia, we win. Otherwise, we lose.
Town lynched: If poison hit another town, mafia wins. If poison hits mafia, SK wins.
Unless you believe no one is going to be poisoned today, I don't see why you want to No Lynch. In that roulette, town is 2/3 to lose and 1/3 to get extra chance to lynch SK. And even if there is no poisoning today, with no lynch, we are have only 1/3 chance to win.
And this is not assuming that mafia knows how to play and chooses a correct player to kill during the night (which would be you, Citric).
This is not correct. If we no lynch today and a townie dies, the town can still win if the mafia and the SK target each other at night. And the odds of this aren't that bad. In fact, the SK basically has to target the person that they think is mafia to avoid a draw. The odds of this are certainly better than hoping that we lynch exactly the last mafia today AND there is no kill tonight. I don't know how you can even make this argument with a straight face. This is all particularly easy for me to say, because I know I'm not mafia, but I'm at L-1 and all.
You know that NL is correct, Citric. Please don't get suckered by the actual 2 scum that just want someone to die today to ensure that one of them wins. You read the situation completely correct in assessing that they basically just claimed scum.
Please, stop bull*****ting. Thank you!
If things worked like that, I would've already asked you guys to lynch me today to ensure town win. However, since mafia's kills happen immidiately and SK's poisoning takes time, it will end up like this:
Night. Mafia NK's SK. SK poisons Mafia.
Morning after. Poisoned mafia and town are alone. Half of the players left alive are mafia. Mafia wins.
But quick, feel free to try and tell me why I would do that, as mafia, and then suggest this plan anyway.
Mafia games don't really end the second that the # of scum = the # of town. They win as soon as the mafia win is inevitable, which is USUALLY at the moment when their #s equal the non-mafia #s. But when mitigating factors exist, the game continues. I'm disappointed to even have to be explaining this, but not particularly surprised.
You certainly look caught with your hand in the cookie jar now, though. What's wrong, Bur? How much were you banking on an SK kill occuring tonight and then you just being able to kill whomever you want overnight to instantly win the game?
In case it's not just really, really obvious to the rest of you, Bur is mafia here. Either Kpaca submitted a kill before Karn replaced him, or the Mod chose for him. His strategy here literally could not be more apparent, and this only makes sense if he is mafia exactly. As any other alignment, he would have checked with the Mod first and realized that he is wrong. But no, he is trying to strongarm us here because it is his only actual chance to win the game now.
And all of that having been said..we should still no lynch and hope that the scum team do what they have to do and help kill each other. Lynching Bur now and letting SK-Generic win is the worst result imaginable.
Try to remember that, when I first revealed the drawback of my role, Sir Chris was still alive, and we did not know about the existence of the SK. So if I am mafia here, that means that, in my mind, we are about to head into lynch or lose with myself + Sir Chris vs. 4 townies. Why would I have even bothered to provide this information, which only throws doubt onto my own role? Do you *really* think that I couldn't have just lynched fulcrum and swung a lynch on you the next day? Really? Especially if I presumed Sir Chris would still be alive to help me, and he was widely regarded as the most town person in the game? And why would I have suggested my whole 'I'll redirect to you and hopefully the scum will kill both of us' plan there? Do you EVER stop for even two ******* seconds and say to yourself, "Why would this person do this as mafia?"
Nevermind that the Mod would have had to let me act twice in one night on multiple occasions for me to be scum. Nevermind a million things that I have pointed out that you are just conveniently ignoring. I'm done talking to you, because you're scum anyway, and too committed now to be able to come down from your 'stance'. I've only bothered responding to you at all today so that Citric could see how full of crap you are.