[1] I will enforce the rules strictly, because I'm evil like that.
[2] Your vote must be in bold. You don't need to unvote before voting.
[3] If my vote count doesn't seem to reflect your vote, just revote.
[4] Lynching requires a simple majority. You may vote no lynch, which also requires a simple majority.
[5] Once your death scene has been posted, you're dead. Dead people don't make forum posts. If you make a post after you are dead, I will hunt you down. For the record, I actually have a text file on my computer of all the people who've broken this rule in the past. I may or may not have plans for it.
[6] Post at least once every 48 hours. If you don't, I'll hunt you down. And prod you. After that you’ll be given at most another 48 hours or so before you are either replaced or modkilled. If you're going to be without computer access for more than 48 hours, let me know ahead of time either in the thread or by PM. Remember, people: if we work together we can have a replacement free game, but that can only happen with your help.
[7] No funny stuff like invisible text, tiny text, cryptography, or acronym claims.
[8] Don't edit posts.
[9] Don't quote PMs. The only exception is that you may post your role card.
[10] You may not talk outside of the thread to anyone about anything that goes on in this game. Period. Whether you're dead, or they're dead, whether they're in the game or not. The only exception is in dead chats.
[11] Have fun and be nice to the other players and me, even if we don't deserve it.
I reserve the right to modkill any player who breaks any rule [6] or higher. This applies especially to [10], but also note it’s application to [6]. I do not like making people replace into my games. I do not like spending time looking for replacements. I do not like slowing down the game while we go through this whole song and dance of looking for a replacement. Modkills circumvent all these things.
If you EVER have questions about the game, PM me. I love having more ways to procrastinate, and caring to your every whim is one of my favorites. If you are confused, curious, or unsure about anything ever, let me know before doing anything stupid.
Overview
WitchHunt is a game in which two factions each seek to control their town by killing off the other: The Villagers and the Witches. There are fewer members of the Witch team, but their identities are secret. Whichever team successfully kills all of their opponents wins.
The game continuously marches through a daily cycle split into two phases: day and night. The length of each game’s cycle will be a strict 14 day period for days, and 48/72 hours for nights. Each phase has an announced deadline, at which point the game automatically transitions to the next phase.
During night, players may not make public discussion and any actions taken are private from other living players. Each night, the Coven of Witches selects a target to kill. Additionally, the Coven may chat privately at this time.
This kill is announced at the start of the next day. During day, living players may make open discussion and decide on a target of their own to lynch. Any living player may vote for any other living player, and a true majority (more than half) is required to lynch.
During this discussion, it may prove important to conceal information or lie. There is no restriction to what players can say or claim! Lies are normally weapons of the Witch team, but anyone can say anything in pursuit of their team’s victory.
Note that unlike some other games, there is no "card flip" (announcement of the player's identity) on death! Which team they were working for remains a mystery!
There will be a brief "pre-game" period where players will confirm their roles, and the Witches can plan. Day 1 then will begin immediately.
The game ends when one side has completely eliminated the other, or when this is inevitable. (For example, Witches typically win when at least half the remaining players are Witches, because it is then impossible for Villagers to out-vote and lynch them.)
Witches win all ties or stalemates.
Player Assignments (Character and Type)
Each player is given two assignments: a unique character, and a non-unique team type.
Unique characters provide every player with a special, unique ability of some sort. These abilities may be offensive or defensive, mechanical or informational. Powers granted by your character only apply while you are alive.
Team type is separate from character, and determines what team the player is on. There are only two teams.
Village Player Types:
Village Peasant (7):
This is the most common player type. Villagers are simply trying to hunt down the Witches and use their character to help the Village do so.
Village Clergy (2):
The most powerful characters are considered “holy” and have gold cards. These characters are reserved for the Village Clergy, and cannot be any other player type.
(Being a Village Clergy have no other unique function besides getting a reserved character.)
Witch Player Types:
Witch (3):
Witches start in the Coven. They know each other from the start of the game, and vote as a group in the Witch Coven each night to kill a target.
Remember: Holy characters aside, any characters can be any player type - Villager or Witch!
Important Information
The Characters
Villager Clergy get one of these two characters:
All other types of players in this game get one of the following characters:
In addition, the Witch Team has the following at its disposal:
Dead Players
Dead players may no longer communicate or vote with living players. They also may no longer utilize their character abilities. Dead players may communicate with each other freely, and may watch the game unfold.
However, dead players are NOT eliminated from the game! Instead they continue to serve their side as an Angel or Demon.
Angels and Demons
All dead Villagers are Angels and all dead Witches are Demons. There is an Angel QT and a Demon QT.
Angels and Demons get to select an action each night, with Demons picking first.
The Angels and Demons each have 3 options to choose from, but the options unlock gradually over the first few nights.
Protection: Select a target to protect from a kill tonight.
Nemesis: Select a target in the Witch Coven to mark. As long as at least one marked player is alive, Angels may make an extra action each night.
Piercing Protection: Select a target to protect from a kill tonight. This ignores any curses, but the Angels may never protect this target again.
Shenanigans: Select a target to haunt. If the Priest checks this target tonight, the result will be incorrect.
Curse: Select a target to curse. The Angels cannot protect this target tonight.
Fake Death Potion: The Witch Coven is given the Fake Death Potion. They may use it tonight, or save it for a future night.
The Witch Coven may use this once on any night to make an extra fake kill. (The target always survives)
Angels and Demons vote by simple plurality, so dead players who do not wish to continue participating can do so with minimal consequence. Since Angels and Demons see all events that take place in the game and may discuss the game freely with each other, they can continue to have a massive impact on the game’s ultimate outcome!
Q&A
How does protection work exactly?
Things that give protection are worded 'protected from a kill', meaning they protect from a single kill that night. Protection does stack, so if you have two sources of protection (say you are the Recluse and Angels target you), you can survive two kills in the same night.
How are night actions resolved?
Demons curse votes and any special cards are due halfway through night.
Everything else, including Angels, is due at the end of night.
Is killing two people with Last Stand optional? Is it announced?
Yes, you can kill only one person; the town is not told when there is only one Witch left.
How does kill survival work?
If anyone survives by any means, it is publicized. The manner they survived by is not.
Angel Protect, Survivalist, Gambler, Fake Death Potion are all indistinguishable.
What does dead chat know?
When an action happens, Angels learn it, and learn who made it. (ex. John the Priest learns that Carl is not in the coven.)
How does Loose Cannon activate?
Post the card in the thread and PM both Voxxicus and I, along with a message showing that you want to lynch X. The Day will end immediately. Please don't post after the Loose Cannon activates.
If you have any questions, please send it to both Voxxicus and I.
Entombed (Dead)
12. KoolKoal, lynched Day 1.
4. KamikazeArchon the DOB, killed Night 1.
10. Archmage Eternal, lynched Day 2.
11. Vaimes, killed Night 2.
5. Tanarin the Loose Cannon, sacrificed himself Day 3.
1. Antny223 the BOD, lynched Day 3.
6. CitricBase, killed Night 3.
7. The Most Curious Thing, lynched Day 4.
3. Taredas, killed Night 4
9. Iso, lynched Day 5.
In Purgatory (Replacements)
1. 7hawk77
2. Sir Karn
I would like to note a couple of changes to the rules.
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Explain how Witches can trade characters?
During pregame, the moderator may let Witches may trade characters among themselves if they feel it would mitigate "meta"-based trends. This is a privilege, not a right. Witches will only be allowed to trade both characters with another Witch--they may not actively optimize characters into new combinations.
This was present in the old WitchHunt but not in this one. As a result, it has been removed.
Quote from Prophylaxis »
1. Dead players know everything, including who is what role and who is scum. They're like spectators that have influence on the game.
This is actually incorrect. My apologies.
When an action happens, Angels learn it, and learn who made it. (ex. John the Priest learns that Carl is not in the coven.)
I am sending out role PMs and setting up the game thread. Posting in the thread is prohibited until then.
I have sent out all role PMs. The game will start in 24 hours or when everyone has confirmed. Have fun!
Oh no, Witches are here! Let's deal with them by randomly killing people!
The first one to go was the local Village Oracle.
You are a...
Village Peasant Oracle.
At the start of the game, you learn how each holy character's death will be described if they die at night.
Please respond to this PM to confirm.
Day 1 of WitchHunt has begun.
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
The deadline is a strict 14 days. If you have not decided by September 2nd, the lynch will be decided by the Judge, or be a no lynch if the Judge is dead.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
There is no comment on the concept of a judge ruling on the day, it's a straight into 'do we even know if the judge is in this?'. When informed of the fact all roles are in play, we get the explainy 'let me just consult the rules' post in 11, rather than just going an looking like most people would. It's clear intent to inform us all that when he makes a statement it's because it's in the rules and not inside knowledge.
I'm sorry no comment on the judge ruling on the day. I'm like the only person to comment on it. And the presence of the judge is pretty important to whether we let the judge decide on the day. No judge and we simply no lynch for no reason.
And then in 12 he highlights the judge could be a witch. Had he come in with the comment the judge could be a witch it would have felt more natural to me. But the need to tell us he's checking the rules, pointing out it's covered in the rules... It's far too self aware. And I'm also now concerned the judge could be in the witch team.
Only if the judge isn't considered a holy character, but I'm thinking Proph meant the priest and acolyte. And again isn't that important if we let the judge decide on the day. We no lynch and the judge decides it pretty much a free nk for the scum.
Your clear need to explain that you will be daring the rules.
I dare the rules all the time. But I'm not sure that was what you meant to say here.
Your quoting the rules to prove that's why you came upon the information after already declaring you would read the rules.
Relevent part of the rules is relevent. And anyway I quoted mostly to check I was on the right path this time after being wrong before.
Both these are self aware.
Meh, I am naturally talkative in games (which is probably another self aware statement (and come to think of it so is this (oh my god it never ends)))).
Ok, back to being sensible for a minute. What exactly do you want me to say about the self aware statement, cause I'm not getting it.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I ignore the "Antny question" because I don't feel I have too much to add at the moment.
He has been accused, and provided a defense. Nothing conclusive or that appears as a super clear tell. His "bumbling" is potentially suspicious, but far from conclusive. Generic does seem a bit lynch-happy, but someone has to stir the pot I guess.
But that's kind of the point, isn't it? Until town starts dying, grasping at straws and over-analyzing hoping the spotlight chances on a witch and they actually do provide a decisive tell is the most we can do.
And I don't know that I would call Antny excessively defensive. He kept being questioned and kept answering. I imagine most people would defend themselves from being lynched. "Dawww you got me! Okay, ready to be lynched :)"
Though I bet most of you know everyone else in these threads better than I do.
"But that's kind of the point, isn't it? Until town starts dying, grasping at straws and over-analyzing hoping the spotlight chances on a witch and they actually do provide a decisive tell is the most we can do. "
We saw how Antny responded to a vote, and you, and me. Isn't that the point?
It's actually to do with his three posts as a transition.
There is no comment on the concept of a judge ruling on the day, it's a straight into 'do we even know if the judge is in this?'. When informed of the fact all roles are in play, we get the explainy 'let me just consult the rules' post in 11, rather than just going an looking like most people would. It's clear intent to inform us all that when he makes a statement it's because it's in the rules and not inside knowledge.
And then in 12 he highlights the judge could be a witch. Had he come in with the comment the judge could be a witch it would have felt more natural to me. But the need to tell us he's checking the rules, pointing out it's covered in the rules... It's far too self aware. And I'm also now concerned the judge could be in the witch team.
Vote Generic, for being so super aggressive. Seems a bit suspicious.
I don't see it that way at all. To sum it all up, it boils down to antny being to self aware.
As I said in post 15. There is a witch in here.(Meaning among the posters at the time)
In antnys RVS vote he has to state that he is RVn'. Sent up flags
Iso, is this person your friend? If so can I get a little background on how experienced they are at mafia and how much common sense you would say they had in general life please.
Why are you asking Iso instead of asking Eshnolat directly?
So far only Generic has really impressed upon me that he might be town.
I send glares of annoyance in the direction of everyone who ignored my proposal. I want everyone to weigh in on the idea of--barring obv scumslips--discussing until the deadline expires and then letting the Judge decide the lynch (with "no lynch" not being an option). If you don't think it's a good idea, you need to say why not.
I send glares of annoyance in the direction of everyone who ignored my proposal. I want everyone to weigh in on the idea of--barring obv scumslips--discussing until the deadline expires and then letting the Judge decide the lynch (with "no lynch" not being an option). If you don't think it's a good idea, you need to say why not.
I'm trying to understand "pros" for the town here. The judge could be a witch correct? The town would not know who the judge is so... Well if the judge is scum then we could control how he handles his role. But first we'd have to find out who it is. If the judge is town is it crucial for the scum to find out who he is? I don't think so.
Cantrip, why do you want the judge to decide? Whats the benefit?
Also, for your question, I would earmark myself, you, Iso and AE. From recent observations, it seems relatively easy to get wagons on me, you and Iso; I haven't played with AE recently but he has a reputation as a good analyst so I'd try to take him out early.
If you were scum, who would you look at in the player list and earmark for the mislynch first? Just based on seeing the name, no posts having been made.
FoS: KoolKoal for trying to be cute while sidestepping my proposal.
lol, I was fairly certain you were just reaction baiting, because it seems like a very bad plan. First the fact that we'd have a 1/4 chance of leaving the lynch entirely up to a witch, whom we could eventually get a read on for his choice, assuming we ever got the judge to claim, and then we still wouldn't have much to get a read about unless the gravedigger had outed himself to say what alignment the lynched player was. Then you have to consider what happens if the judge is a town player who has a terrible read of the game, how can we tell the difference between mistaken town and a witch at that point?
So there's a bunch of negatives, and no one has mentioned a positive point to the plan yet.
If you were scum, who would you look at in the player list and earmark for the mislynch first? Just based on seeing the name, no posts having been made.
Interesting thought exercise. The easy mislynches imo would be KamikazeArchon (based only on our last game together where I wanted to lynch him at times despite being sure his position was town before he replaced in), AE who doesn't even care if he appears town as a townie, antny I think is pretty new, but have no idea, so I'd keep an eye on him, and last Eshnolat because I know he's new around here.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Anyway, first off on the Judge thing. Plan is stupid. As KK has pointed out, we have no idea if the Judge is town or scum. On top of that we can not even trust a person claims to be the Judge. In fact, there are only 2 people in this game I would trust with their claims point blank, the Priest and the Acolyte, as they can ONLY go to town. Yes, scum could still false claim it in order to bait out the players with the actual role, but it would be suicidal on their part (Especially falseclaiming Priest.) I do have a question I want to ask Cantrip, but it needs to wait until everyone answers. So everyone, please answer.
Now, on to the antny thing. I personally do not get where Generic is coming from. I understand it is only one page in and you need something to go on, but I dunno if reading the rules and quoting a part of it counts as self aware as much as overly cautious. I would think if he was scum, he would KNOW that a judge is in the game, and if he was a judge or the judge was on the scum team, he would know as well. The fact he is even asking in the first place if a judge is in the game leads me to believe he is town (As town is more likely to make the mistake he made as opposed to scum.)
He is also very much prone to "Foot in Mouth" syndrome so he could easily just be bumbling town. The case as a whole though does not leave a lot of room for one to defend themselves, but given this case is coming from Generic, I see it as Generic being Generic.
@AE, why did you feel the need to answer Iso AFTER Generic had already answered him? I think Generic's post made it clear his reasoning seven hours before your post. it is still early enough in the day where a Barn would be passable, and you could have easily addressed Eshnolat's defense of antny/defense of their vote on generic. (Aside @Eshnolat: Prefer he/she/it/they?)
@Generic: Antny with Kami as a back up mislynch. Both are prone to D1 implosions which can be easily exploitable.
FoS: KoolKoal for trying to be cute while sidestepping my proposal.
FoS: Antny for posts 8, 11, and 12.
<snipped for brevity>
I send glares of annoyance in the direction of everyone who ignored my proposal. I want everyone to weigh in on the idea of--barring obv scumslips--discussing until the deadline expires and then letting the Judge decide the lynch (with "no lynch" not being an option). If you don't think it's a good idea, you need to say why not.
Unvote
There's at least two good reasons not to like this plan.
- Scum Judge, as noted, can just go against consensus and kill a strong townie.
- A Town Judge, unless using the judge on a preselected (read: pseudolynched) target, is giving a hint to their identity, making it easier for scum to identify who has which roles (and to kill the Judge if needed - a town Judge is better lategame as extra lives proliferate and can single-handedly win tied endgames.
Frankly, I'm wondering why you floated this at all. Why do you think this is a *good* idea? Because I'm not seeing it. (And while you're here, why just FoSes on KoolKoal/Antny? Doesn't make sense as a pseudovote, because those tend to be announced and you dropped *two* FoS'es.)
The plan we *should* be talking about is a D1 Gravedigger claim (if the Gravedigger does *not* claim now and then claims later then, we lynch them on sight), followed by the Gravedigger revealing results each morning (background research suggests this is current stock play, though this game has a couple of differences from the standard that may affect this). Upshot is that it shuts down two situations: scum Gravedigger claiming a bunch of falsified results late to reinforce town fallacies/create falseclaiming holes (they can still lie, but have less time and information with which to do so and are more likely to make a mistake), or a scum Apprentice choosing Gravedigger, killing the GD N1, and proceeding to do the same. Downside is that the scum could kill the GD N1 - but if they're killing the GD, they aren't killing analysts/Village Clergy, and if they have the Apprentice set to Gravedigger (and why would a scum Apprentice pick Judge, outside of maybe the "GD *and* Apprentice are both scum" corner case?) they know who the GD is regardless.
The main differences that might affect this are the lack of pregame discussion (some WitchHunts allow a short period for discussion pregame, and Gravedigger claims happen then to let the Apprentice have a more informed choice - this mostly affects the chance of a scum GD not claiming, and is the reason for the "lynch them on sight if they do not claim" clause) and slightly different Angel/Demon effects (I *think* this doesn't affect the decision, but haven't run through scenarios yet).
If you were scum, who would you look at in the player list and earmark for the mislynch first? Just based on seeing the name, no posts having been made.
You if Iso was scum, iRebel if Iso was town. (As scum, if I'm pushing town I prefer to push players I have trouble reading as town - look at how I treated DGB/Thor/Nacho in CT3 for a good example. Iso reads your implosions well, hence the dependence on his alignment.)
It's actually to do with his three posts as a transition.
There is no comment on the concept of a judge ruling on the day, it's a straight into 'do we even know if the judge is in this?'. When informed of the fact all roles are in play, we get the explainy 'let me just consult the rules' post in 11, rather than just going an looking like most people would. It's clear intent to inform us all that when he makes a statement it's because it's in the rules and not inside knowledge.
And then in 12 he highlights the judge could be a witch. Had he come in with the comment the judge could be a witch it would have felt more natural to me. But the need to tell us he's checking the rules, pointing out it's covered in the rules... It's far too self aware. And I'm also now concerned the judge could be in the witch team.
Vote Generic, for being so super aggressive. Seems a bit suspicious.
I don't see it that way at all. To sum it all up, it boils down to antny being to self aware.
As I said in post 15. There is a witch in here.(Meaning among the posters at the time)
In antnys RVS vote he has to state that he is RVn'. Sent up flags
Vote antny
And this is how scum-AE attacks townies - tone lacks sincerity.
EBWOP: Belay the Gravedigger claim, found some new discussion/theorycrafting that may be relevant and am working through it. (Or may not - part of the discussion involves a Loose Cannon replacement role - but I want to look at the reasoning.)
I was gonna wait until after AE answered my question, but seeing as how Tare just made my case way better than I was going to via my question:
Vote Archmage Eternal
I would still like an answer to my question BTW, kthxbai.
Also, mind linking to said discussion in thread, Tare (Assuming no ongoing game stuff is mentioned of course.) Consider me intrigued on the Gravedigger D1 claim logic. If I can see said logic first hand, I may be convinced to support said idea.
#6, Cantrip: No. There’s no way for us to judge the actions of the Judge as either “town” or “anti-town”, for the correct decision for the judge, regardless of alignment, is to lynch the scummiest person of the day, IMO.
#20, Generic: You’re doing that scummy thing again.
#33, Kamikaze: Speaking of terrible votes, yours is a prime example. There was nothing wrong with Eshnolat’s vote on Generic.
Why do you think Antny is being “excessively” defensive? Elaborate.
#39, Kamikaze: Explain why you’re suspicious of Eshnolat and Antny.
#45, Generic: Eshnolat.
#48, KoolKoal: /barn re: judge proposal.
#52, Taredas: I’d also like a link, if possible, to where you’re reading your theory arguments.
Am willing to support the AE wagon depending on how AE responds.
#54, Tanarin: “If I can see the logic first hand, I may be convinced to support said idea” —> This wording irks me, and doesn’t strike me as very town like. I feel like the town response would be along the lines of I’d like to see the whole discussion so we can examine it more thoroughly, but that isn’t what Tanarin said. He might be willing to support it after seeing it, with no qualification as to what would make him get on board. It’s sly sounding.
#55, KoolKoal: Why Taredas? What, specifically, about his question to AE pings your scumdar?
Vote: Tanarin
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EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I think I was a bit tired when I made that post. My thought process at the time was: AE is good mislynch target imo + Taredas makes bad case on AE = scum. I won't go into more detail until AE defends himself, but tone down my previous statement down to IGMEOY, as it relates to Taredas, at least.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
#54, Tanarin: “If I can see the logic first hand, I may be convinced to support said idea” —> This wording irks me, and doesn’t strike me as very town like. I feel like the town response would be along the lines of I’d like to see the whole discussion so we can examine it more thoroughly, but that isn’t what Tanarin said. He might be willing to support it after seeing it, with no qualification as to what would make him get on board. It’s sly sounding.
You know how I play. If I can break a game, or at least find an edge, and the risk is reasonable, I take it. Tare proposed a strategy to make things easier, and I am willing to listen. I'm not going to go full in on the plan right away though, so making me sound on the fence or otherwise paint my slight hesitation as bad is odd to say the least.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Oh, Tan's question isn't where my scum read of him comes from, except that he goes from the question to /barning a weak case and a vote on a dime. He even called the case "way better" than the case his question was going to spawn.
My remark about Tanarin's question was that I'm waiting to see what he's getting at in case he's wrong and it's better than Taredas's case, but right now it looks like he asked a weak question to probe, and got excited when Taredas dropped a vote for the same player he (Tan) was setting up on.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Oh, Tan's question isn't where my scum read of him comes from, except that he goes from the question to /barning a weak case and a vote on a dime. He even called the case "way better" than the case his question was going to spawn.
My remark about Tanarin's question was that I'm waiting to see what he's getting at in case he's wrong and it's better than Taredas's case, but right now it looks like he asked a weak question to probe, and got excited when Taredas dropped a vote for the same player he (Tan) was setting up on.
Meh, all cases are weak right now for the most part. At least Tare came in with a meta argument with proof for his vote and is likely the strongest case we have heard all game.
Also as I said, he mostly hit where I was going with my question. It lacks anything resembling sincerity. He also is attempting to look more busy than he really has to. As I said in my initial question post, a simple /barn at this stage in the game would have been good, as there is not THAT much of a case on antny. His going through all the motions tells me he is trying to impress Iso and/or Generic for some reason. If one was town, they would have no reason to do such a thing. It literally is unneeded fluff that could have been better spent either replying to antny's responses and building a stronger case on him, or questioning Eshnolat about their position. Hell, he could have even used the initial post to say what was actually put in his #44, as opposed to waiting until prodded by Cantrip in order to do so. Though to be fair, I did not answer his question in my RVS post, as it was after Cantrip's question. So pot/kettle black and all that.
I was gonna wait until after AE answered my question, but seeing as how Tare just made my case way better than I was going to via my question:
Vote Archmage Eternal
I would still like an answer to my question BTW, kthxbai.
Also, mind linking to said discussion in thread, Tare (Assuming no ongoing game stuff is mentioned of course.) Consider me intrigued on the Gravedigger D1 claim logic. If I can see said logic first hand, I may be convinced to support said idea.
After thinking things over, I'm now very unsure it's a good idea - according to theorycrafting in the second thread, the most important problem with early Gravedigger claim is due to the revamped Demon options: part of the reason for GD claiming was that the Priest could check him N1 if needed with little chance of an incorrect result (because in the old ruleset Shenanigans couldn't unlock before N2, so N1 result would be accurate barring scum drawing a role [Jester] that's not in this game, and even *that* could be accounted for by a town Inquisitor self-checking N1); with Shenanigans potentially available N1, a Demon (if they exist, but it's hard to know they *don't* exist) can just Shenanigan the GD.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
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Rules
(inspired by Xylthixlm, stolen from Ged!)
[1] I will enforce the rules strictly, because I'm evil like that.
[2] Your vote must be in bold. You don't need to unvote before voting.
[3] If my vote count doesn't seem to reflect your vote, just revote.
[4] Lynching requires a simple majority. You may vote no lynch, which also requires a simple majority.
[5] Once your death scene has been posted, you're dead. Dead people don't make forum posts. If you make a post after you are dead, I will hunt you down. For the record, I actually have a text file on my computer of all the people who've broken this rule in the past. I may or may not have plans for it.
[6] Post at least once every 48 hours. If you don't, I'll hunt you down. And prod you. After that you’ll be given at most another 48 hours or so before you are either replaced or modkilled. If you're going to be without computer access for more than 48 hours, let me know ahead of time either in the thread or by PM. Remember, people: if we work together we can have a replacement free game, but that can only happen with your help.
[7] No funny stuff like invisible text, tiny text, cryptography, or acronym claims.
[8] Don't edit posts.
[9] Don't quote PMs. The only exception is that you may post your role card.
[10] You may not talk outside of the thread to anyone about anything that goes on in this game. Period. Whether you're dead, or they're dead, whether they're in the game or not. The only exception is in dead chats.
[11] Have fun and be nice to the other players and me, even if we don't deserve it.
I reserve the right to modkill any player who breaks any rule [6] or higher. This applies especially to [10], but also note it’s application to [6]. I do not like making people replace into my games. I do not like spending time looking for replacements. I do not like slowing down the game while we go through this whole song and dance of looking for a replacement. Modkills circumvent all these things.
If you EVER have questions about the game, PM me. I love having more ways to procrastinate, and caring to your every whim is one of my favorites. If you are confused, curious, or unsure about anything ever, let me know before doing anything stupid.
WitchHunt is a game in which two factions each seek to control their town by killing off the other: The Villagers and the Witches. There are fewer members of the Witch team, but their identities are secret. Whichever team successfully kills all of their opponents wins.
The game continuously marches through a daily cycle split into two phases: day and night. The length of each game’s cycle will be a strict 14 day period for days, and 48/72 hours for nights. Each phase has an announced deadline, at which point the game automatically transitions to the next phase.
During night, players may not make public discussion and any actions taken are private from other living players. Each night, the Coven of Witches selects a target to kill. Additionally, the Coven may chat privately at this time.
This kill is announced at the start of the next day. During day, living players may make open discussion and decide on a target of their own to lynch. Any living player may vote for any other living player, and a true majority (more than half) is required to lynch.
During this discussion, it may prove important to conceal information or lie. There is no restriction to what players can say or claim! Lies are normally weapons of the Witch team, but anyone can say anything in pursuit of their team’s victory.
Note that unlike some other games, there is no "card flip" (announcement of the player's identity) on death! Which team they were working for remains a mystery!
There will be a brief "pre-game" period where players will confirm their roles, and the Witches can plan. Day 1 then will begin immediately.
The game ends when one side has completely eliminated the other, or when this is inevitable. (For example, Witches typically win when at least half the remaining players are Witches, because it is then impossible for Villagers to out-vote and lynch them.)
Witches win all ties or stalemates.
Player Assignments (Character and Type)
Each player is given two assignments: a unique character, and a non-unique team type.
Unique characters provide every player with a special, unique ability of some sort. These abilities may be offensive or defensive, mechanical or informational. Powers granted by your character only apply while you are alive.
Team type is separate from character, and determines what team the player is on. There are only two teams.
Village Player Types:
Village Peasant (7):
This is the most common player type. Villagers are simply trying to hunt down the Witches and use their character to help the Village do so.
Village Clergy (2):
The most powerful characters are considered “holy” and have gold cards. These characters are reserved for the Village Clergy, and cannot be any other player type.
(Being a Village Clergy have no other unique function besides getting a reserved character.)
Witch Player Types:
Witch (3):
Witches start in the Coven. They know each other from the start of the game, and vote as a group in the Witch Coven each night to kill a target.
Remember: Holy characters aside, any characters can be any player type - Villager or Witch!
Important Information
The Characters
Villager Clergy get one of these two characters:
All other types of players in this game get one of the following characters:
In addition, the Witch Team has the following at its disposal:
Dead Players
Dead players may no longer communicate or vote with living players. They also may no longer utilize their character abilities. Dead players may communicate with each other freely, and may watch the game unfold.
However, dead players are NOT eliminated from the game! Instead they continue to serve their side as an Angel or Demon.
Angels and Demons
All dead Villagers are Angels and all dead Witches are Demons. There is an Angel QT and a Demon QT.
Angels and Demons get to select an action each night, with Demons picking first.
The Angels and Demons each have 3 options to choose from, but the options unlock gradually over the first few nights.
Protection: Select a target to protect from a kill tonight.
Nemesis: Select a target in the Witch Coven to mark. As long as at least one marked player is alive, Angels may make an extra action each night.
Piercing Protection: Select a target to protect from a kill tonight. This ignores any curses, but the Angels may never protect this target again.
Shenanigans: Select a target to haunt. If the Priest checks this target tonight, the result will be incorrect.
Curse: Select a target to curse. The Angels cannot protect this target tonight.
Fake Death Potion: The Witch Coven is given the Fake Death Potion. They may use it tonight, or save it for a future night.
The Witch Coven may use this once on any night to make an extra fake kill. (The target always survives)
Angels and Demons vote by simple plurality, so dead players who do not wish to continue participating can do so with minimal consequence. Since Angels and Demons see all events that take place in the game and may discuss the game freely with each other, they can continue to have a massive impact on the game’s ultimate outcome!
Q&A
Things that give protection are worded 'protected from a kill', meaning they protect from a single kill that night. Protection does stack, so if you have two sources of protection (say you are the Recluse and Angels target you), you can survive two kills in the same night.
How are night actions resolved?
Demons curse votes and any special cards are due halfway through night.
Everything else, including Angels, is due at the end of night.
Is killing two people with Last Stand optional? Is it announced?
Yes, you can kill only one person; the town is not told when there is only one Witch left.
How does kill survival work?
If anyone survives by any means, it is publicized. The manner they survived by is not.
Angel Protect, Survivalist, Gambler, Fake Death Potion are all indistinguishable.
What does dead chat know?
When an action happens, Angels learn it, and learn who made it. (ex. John the Priest learns that Carl is not in the coven.)
How does Loose Cannon activate?
Post the card in the thread and PM both Voxxicus and I, along with a message showing that you want to lynch X. The Day will end immediately. Please don't post after the Loose Cannon activates.
If you have any questions, please send it to both Voxxicus and I.
Hunting Witches (Alive) (town won)
2. Cantripmancer, triumphant!
8. Laset, triumphant!
Entombed (Dead)
12. KoolKoal, lynched Day 1.
4. KamikazeArchon the DOB, killed Night 1.
10. Archmage Eternal, lynched Day 2.
11. Vaimes, killed Night 2.
5. Tanarin the Loose Cannon, sacrificed himself Day 3.
1. Antny223 the BOD, lynched Day 3.
6. CitricBase, killed Night 3.
7. The Most Curious Thing, lynched Day 4.
3. Taredas, killed Night 4
9. Iso, lynched Day 5.
In Purgatory (Replacements)
1. 7hawk77
2. Sir Karn
Observers (Spectators)
1. Voxxicus
2. fulcrum
3. Bolly
4. Cythare
5. DCIII
6. NeonFrequency
7. dkingsland967
This was present in the old WitchHunt but not in this one. As a result, it has been removed.
This is actually incorrect. My apologies.
When an action happens, Angels learn it, and learn who made it. (ex. John the Priest learns that Carl is not in the coven.)
I am sending out role PMs and setting up the game thread. Posting in the thread is prohibited until then.
I have sent out all role PMs. The game will start in 24 hours or when everyone has confirmed. Have fun!
The first one to go was the local Village Oracle.
At the start of the game, you learn how each holy character's death will be described if they die at night.
Please respond to this PM to confirm.
Day 1 of WitchHunt has begun.
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
The deadline is a strict 14 days. If you have not decided by September 2nd, the lynch will be decided by the Judge, or be a no lynch if the Judge is dead.
first!
Damn Patriots!
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
I propose we let the judge decide the lynch toDay. Discuss.
vote Archmage Eternal
Because I'll probably want to later, might as well do it now.
Because I want to rvs and your making me think strategy.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but we don't know if there is a judge in this game, right?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I need to check the rules again. In the meantime...
The Holy characters are the priest and the acolyte right. So in that case the judge could be a witch.
I swear he loves to stalk me.
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13 posts in and not a single vote on Iso? You guys disappoint me.
But there is a witch here.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
(7 to lynch)
Cantripmancer (2): KamikazeArchon, Antny223
Tanarin (1): iRebel
Eshnolat (1): Cantripmancer
Archmage Eternal (1): KoolKoal
iRebel (1): Tanarin
Iso (1): Kosakosa
Abstain (5): Taredas, Generic, Iso, Archmage Eternal, Eshnolat
Unvote; on to serious matters.
Eshnolat is an IRL friend of mine.
As for your proposition...no.
I mean, it's not like we have a say in the matter. But if we're taking a vote on it, I say no.
Is it for what looks like Antny bumbling about in an attempt to set up a Judge falseclaim? If not, you're gonna have to explain this one to me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm sorry no comment on the judge ruling on the day. I'm like the only person to comment on it. And the presence of the judge is pretty important to whether we let the judge decide on the day. No judge and we simply no lynch for no reason.
Only if the judge isn't considered a holy character, but I'm thinking Proph meant the priest and acolyte. And again isn't that important if we let the judge decide on the day. We no lynch and the judge decides it pretty much a free nk for the scum.
I dare the rules all the time. But I'm not sure that was what you meant to say here.
Relevent part of the rules is relevent. And anyway I quoted mostly to check I was on the right path this time after being wrong before.
Meh, I am naturally talkative in games (which is probably another self aware statement (and come to think of it so is this (oh my god it never ends)))).
Ok, back to being sensible for a minute. What exactly do you want me to say about the self aware statement, cause I'm not getting it.
"Intrigued" as in what I said interests you, or "intrigued" as in what I said bears further explanation?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
vote Eshnolat
Weakly justified vote, ignores the actual Antny question.
Speaking of which, Antny is being excessively defensive.
He has been accused, and provided a defense. Nothing conclusive or that appears as a super clear tell. His "bumbling" is potentially suspicious, but far from conclusive. Generic does seem a bit lynch-happy, but someone has to stir the pot I guess.
But that's kind of the point, isn't it? Until town starts dying, grasping at straws and over-analyzing hoping the spotlight chances on a witch and they actually do provide a decisive tell is the most we can do.
And I don't know that I would call Antny excessively defensive. He kept being questioned and kept answering. I imagine most people would defend themselves from being lynched. "Dawww you got me! Okay, ready to be lynched :)"
Though I bet most of you know everyone else in these threads better than I do.
"But that's kind of the point, isn't it? Until town starts dying, grasping at straws and over-analyzing hoping the spotlight chances on a witch and they actually do provide a decisive tell is the most we can do. "
We saw how Antny responded to a vote, and you, and me. Isn't that the point?
I like this guy.
I saw something else.
Bolded is what I'm looking at.
I don't see it that way at all. To sum it all up, it boils down to antny being to self aware.
As I said in post 15. There is a witch in here.(Meaning among the posters at the time)
In antnys RVS vote he has to state that he is RVn'. Sent up flags
Vote antny
They hate us cause they ain't us.
FoS: Antny for posts 8, 11, and 12.
@Antny: do you normally not read the rules of games you play?
1) What do you mean "it's not like we have a say in the matter"? We (the players of the game) absolutely have a say in the matter.
2) Why not?
Yet you still haven't espoused whether you think it's a good idea or not.
Why are you asking Iso instead of asking Eshnolat directly?
So far only Generic has really impressed upon me that he might be town.
I send glares of annoyance in the direction of everyone who ignored my proposal. I want everyone to weigh in on the idea of--barring obv scumslips--discussing until the deadline expires and then letting the Judge decide the lynch (with "no lynch" not being an option). If you don't think it's a good idea, you need to say why not.
Unvote
I'm trying to understand "pros" for the town here. The judge could be a witch correct? The town would not know who the judge is so... Well if the judge is scum then we could control how he handles his role. But first we'd have to find out who it is. If the judge is town is it crucial for the scum to find out who he is? I don't think so.
Cantrip, why do you want the judge to decide? Whats the benefit?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Also, for your question, I would earmark myself, you, Iso and AE. From recent observations, it seems relatively easy to get wagons on me, you and Iso; I haven't played with AE recently but he has a reputation as a good analyst so I'd try to take him out early.
Kosa
They hate us cause they ain't us.
So there's a bunch of negatives, and no one has mentioned a positive point to the plan yet.
And my cuteness is natural Interesting thought exercise. The easy mislynches imo would be KamikazeArchon (based only on our last game together where I wanted to lynch him at times despite being sure his position was town before he replaced in), AE who doesn't even care if he appears town as a townie, antny I think is pretty new, but have no idea, so I'd keep an eye on him, and last Eshnolat because I know he's new around here.
(7 to lynch)
Antny223 (2): Generic, Archmage Eternal
Cantripmancer (1): Antny223
Tanarin (1): iRebel
Eshnolat (1): KamikazeArchon
Archmage Eternal (1): KoolKoal
iRebel (1): Tanarin
Iso (1): Kosakosa
Generic (1): Eshnolat
Abstain (3): Taredas, Iso, Cantripmancer
unvote
Anyway, first off on the Judge thing. Plan is stupid. As KK has pointed out, we have no idea if the Judge is town or scum. On top of that we can not even trust a person claims to be the Judge. In fact, there are only 2 people in this game I would trust with their claims point blank, the Priest and the Acolyte, as they can ONLY go to town. Yes, scum could still false claim it in order to bait out the players with the actual role, but it would be suicidal on their part (Especially falseclaiming Priest.) I do have a question I want to ask Cantrip, but it needs to wait until everyone answers. So everyone, please answer.
Now, on to the antny thing. I personally do not get where Generic is coming from. I understand it is only one page in and you need something to go on, but I dunno if reading the rules and quoting a part of it counts as self aware as much as overly cautious. I would think if he was scum, he would KNOW that a judge is in the game, and if he was a judge or the judge was on the scum team, he would know as well. The fact he is even asking in the first place if a judge is in the game leads me to believe he is town (As town is more likely to make the mistake he made as opposed to scum.)
He is also very much prone to "Foot in Mouth" syndrome so he could easily just be bumbling town. The case as a whole though does not leave a lot of room for one to defend themselves, but given this case is coming from Generic, I see it as Generic being Generic.
@AE, why did you feel the need to answer Iso AFTER Generic had already answered him? I think Generic's post made it clear his reasoning seven hours before your post. it is still early enough in the day where a Barn would be passable, and you could have easily addressed Eshnolat's defense of antny/defense of their vote on generic. (Aside @Eshnolat: Prefer he/she/it/they?)
@Generic: Antny with Kami as a back up mislynch. Both are prone to D1 implosions which can be easily exploitable.
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There's at least two good reasons not to like this plan.
- Scum Judge, as noted, can just go against consensus and kill a strong townie.
- A Town Judge, unless using the judge on a preselected (read: pseudolynched) target, is giving a hint to their identity, making it easier for scum to identify who has which roles (and to kill the Judge if needed - a town Judge is better lategame as extra lives proliferate and can single-handedly win tied endgames.
Frankly, I'm wondering why you floated this at all. Why do you think this is a *good* idea? Because I'm not seeing it. (And while you're here, why just FoSes on KoolKoal/Antny? Doesn't make sense as a pseudovote, because those tend to be announced and you dropped *two* FoS'es.)
The plan we *should* be talking about is a D1 Gravedigger claim (if the Gravedigger does *not* claim now and then claims later then, we lynch them on sight), followed by the Gravedigger revealing results each morning (background research suggests this is current stock play, though this game has a couple of differences from the standard that may affect this). Upshot is that it shuts down two situations: scum Gravedigger claiming a bunch of falsified results late to reinforce town fallacies/create falseclaiming holes (they can still lie, but have less time and information with which to do so and are more likely to make a mistake), or a scum Apprentice choosing Gravedigger, killing the GD N1, and proceeding to do the same. Downside is that the scum could kill the GD N1 - but if they're killing the GD, they aren't killing analysts/Village Clergy, and if they have the Apprentice set to Gravedigger (and why would a scum Apprentice pick Judge, outside of maybe the "GD *and* Apprentice are both scum" corner case?) they know who the GD is regardless.
The main differences that might affect this are the lack of pregame discussion (some WitchHunts allow a short period for discussion pregame, and Gravedigger claims happen then to let the Apprentice have a more informed choice - this mostly affects the chance of a scum GD not claiming, and is the reason for the "lynch them on sight if they do not claim" clause) and slightly different Angel/Demon effects (I *think* this doesn't affect the decision, but haven't run through scenarios yet).
---
You if Iso was scum, iRebel if Iso was town. (As scum, if I'm pushing town I prefer to push players I have trouble reading as town - look at how I treated DGB/Thor/Nacho in CT3 for a good example. Iso reads your implosions well, hence the dependence on his alignment.)
---
Look familiar?
/barn Cyan
And this is how scum-AE attacks townies - tone lacks sincerity.
Antny's town, AE's scum and needs to hang.
Vote: Archmage Eternal
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
I was gonna wait until after AE answered my question, but seeing as how Tare just made my case way better than I was going to via my question:
Vote Archmage Eternal
I would still like an answer to my question BTW, kthxbai.
Also, mind linking to said discussion in thread, Tare (Assuming no ongoing game stuff is mentioned of course.) Consider me intrigued on the Gravedigger D1 claim logic. If I can see said logic first hand, I may be convinced to support said idea.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
Crickets...
I have no time right now, but I will respond to my respondents at my earliest convenience. My thanks to those who have responded.
#20, Generic: You’re doing that scummy thing again.
Unvote
Vote: Generic
I don’t buy the self aware argument.
#31, Generic: Okay, maybe Generic isn’t doing that scummy thing. Unvote
#33, Kamikaze: Speaking of terrible votes, yours is a prime example. There was nothing wrong with Eshnolat’s vote on Generic.
Why do you think Antny is being “excessively” defensive? Elaborate.
#39, Kamikaze: Explain why you’re suspicious of Eshnolat and Antny.
#45, Generic: Eshnolat.
#48, KoolKoal: /barn re: judge proposal.
#52, Taredas: I’d also like a link, if possible, to where you’re reading your theory arguments.
Am willing to support the AE wagon depending on how AE responds.
#54, Tanarin: “If I can see the logic first hand, I may be convinced to support said idea” —> This wording irks me, and doesn’t strike me as very town like. I feel like the town response would be along the lines of I’d like to see the whole discussion so we can examine it more thoroughly, but that isn’t what Tanarin said. He might be willing to support it after seeing it, with no qualification as to what would make him get on board. It’s sly sounding.
#55, KoolKoal: Why Taredas? What, specifically, about his question to AE pings your scumdar?
Vote: Tanarin
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
You know how I play. If I can break a game, or at least find an edge, and the risk is reasonable, I take it. Tare proposed a strategy to make things easier, and I am willing to listen. I'm not going to go full in on the plan right away though, so making me sound on the fence or otherwise paint my slight hesitation as bad is odd to say the least.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
My remark about Tanarin's question was that I'm waiting to see what he's getting at in case he's wrong and it's better than Taredas's case, but right now it looks like he asked a weak question to probe, and got excited when Taredas dropped a vote for the same player he (Tan) was setting up on.
Meh, all cases are weak right now for the most part. At least Tare came in with a meta argument with proof for his vote and is likely the strongest case we have heard all game.
Also as I said, he mostly hit where I was going with my question. It lacks anything resembling sincerity. He also is attempting to look more busy than he really has to. As I said in my initial question post, a simple /barn at this stage in the game would have been good, as there is not THAT much of a case on antny. His going through all the motions tells me he is trying to impress Iso and/or Generic for some reason. If one was town, they would have no reason to do such a thing. It literally is unneeded fluff that could have been better spent either replying to antny's responses and building a stronger case on him, or questioning Eshnolat about their position. Hell, he could have even used the initial post to say what was actually put in his #44, as opposed to waiting until prodded by Cantrip in order to do so. Though to be fair, I did not answer his question in my RVS post, as it was after Cantrip's question. So pot/kettle black and all that.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
Hey KoolKoal.
Are you scum?
---
Discussion 1 (check mostly page 1)
Discussion 2 (check lower half of page 1 and a couple of pages after)
Discussion with updated ruleset (relevant section starts at post 45)
After thinking things over, I'm now very unsure it's a good idea - according to theorycrafting in the second thread, the most important problem with early Gravedigger claim is due to the revamped Demon options: part of the reason for GD claiming was that the Priest could check him N1 if needed with little chance of an incorrect result (because in the old ruleset Shenanigans couldn't unlock before N2, so N1 result would be accurate barring scum drawing a role [Jester] that's not in this game, and even *that* could be accounted for by a town Inquisitor self-checking N1); with Shenanigans potentially available N1, a Demon (if they exist, but it's hard to know they *don't* exist) can just Shenanigan the GD.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."