Town
Arian – puts a lot of effort in the posts he makes. Sign of town!Arian
Wildfire – I see no differences with his normal town!play
Sir Chris – reads genuine
DCIII – very good posts and case on AI is spot on
Lean town
Iso – Not 100% sure, but this looks like normal Iso to me
hansanator – gut. Scum!Hans would've done weird things by now.
HookerPunch – plays like I'm used to from him, but don't have enough experience with him to be sure.
Null
Megiddo – moved to null from scum because I reread the whole situation and I like his explanation of his meta-change. Still wary though.
KillJoy – GIP makes me think there's something in his personal life that makes him make mistakes like the 4 scum thing. Don't think that's alignment-telling.
Descoures – not much content
Rezombied – not much content
Kpaca / Dkings – not much content from Kpaca. I disagree with most of Dking's reads.
lean scum
Proph – He's to be accusing Wildfire of stuff that Wildfire always does. Will move up depending on the answer to my question.
Karn – feels like RtR all over again. If this is town!Karn, then please adopt a new playstyle because this is terrible.
Niv – I disagree with almost everything he says. The endless postponing of promised content looks ugly.
Lngrrr – The slapfest with EtR looked very forced. He's asking pointless questions.
Scum
Seppel – read might change when I have meta-input, but my gut screams that Seppel is scum.
AI – #299 says it all: he's not interested in the game. Also, #357 (the post I quoted earlier). The only thing that gives me pause is the massclaim thing... but he didn't really propose it; he only mentioned the possibility.
Cythare – #38 is bad: he's totally overreacting to Chris's attack. In #107 he tries to hard to justify a Wildfire scum read. He also spoilers his thoughts on players, making it seem he has got something to hide.
EtR – Never follows up on his 'scumhunts'. Posts like #73 are just looking busy, that's not genuine looking for scum. The back and forth with Lngr around #314 reads completely forced.
I'm not a fan of the KJ wagon.
Willing to lynch any of AI, Cythare and EtR.
Also ok with Seppel and LnGrrR if the above don't happen.
Too unsure of my other lean scums to commit to them.
unvote, vote EtR because he's the read I'm most sure of.
@Rhand: I frequently spoiler things as both alignments. See: Kill Bill, Ataghan, Deitryptychos, House, Presidential, and Battlestar where I did it as town and Potato Head, Eeveelution, Porn Star and Futurama where I did it as scum.
@Rhand: I frequently spoiler things as both alignments. See: Kill Bill, Ataghan, Deitryptychos, House, Presidential, and Battlestar where I did it as town and Potato Head, Eeveelution, Porn Star and Futurama where I did it as scum.
Oh that makes that point moot then. You're still scum though.
These are my relevant notes on you (I stopped taking notes somewhere halfway to speed up the catchup):
29: wording is exactly how scum often explain their selves. The topic makes it null, but watch him!
38: over-explaining himself; overreaction and wrong defense vs Chris
107: trying too hard to find something about WF
186: mudsling against AI (who is voting him)
302: self-defence the only thing to do?
I also strongly disliked your back and forth with AI. That didn't seem genuine.
@Proph, I'm still here. I just have a mentoring seminar this weekend (military, made rank, this is "preparing for SNCO course" so I can't take regular breaks).
You still haven explained why you thought my votes were random. Also, you need to rad the game again? Didn't you just read the game like, a week ago? What makes a reread a necessity?
These are my relevant notes on you (I stopped taking notes somewhere halfway to speed up the catchup):
29: wording is exactly how scum often explain their selves. The topic makes it null, but watch him!
38: over-explaining himself; overreaction and wrong defense vs Chris
107: trying too hard to find something about WF
186: mudsling against AI (who is voting him)
302: self-defence the only thing to do?
I also strongly disliked your back and forth with AI. That didn't seem genuine.
Thanks.
On:
#29: I feel like this was discussed already.
#38: I don't understand.
#107: I thought it was a slip, so I questioned it.
#186: What?
#302: Fair point. I felt like anything else I had worth saying had already been said, though, so
I'm not sure what to tell you on the back and forth with AI.
@Proph, I'm still here. I just have a mentoring seminar this weekend (military, made rank, this is "preparing for SNCO course" so I can't take regular breaks).
Cythare to me is a pretty bad case. A lot of it comes from my interaction with him early but I liked his responses so I don't get it.
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@Cythare: I don't know if discussing old stuff is going to get us anywhere. Let's keep this short.
#38 seemed to me to miss Sir Chris's point completely: you just used more words to say the same thing you said before.
#107 sounds very fake to me.
#186: the "nice rebuttal" part with that smiley. What other use than making AI look bad could that possibly have?
The back and forth between you and AI isn't important for now anyways. It will be if one of you flips scum.
MandersHex is a former MTGS Mafia player who would claim to be busy to avoid posting content while under scrutiny. At one point Seppel caught scum!Manders reading a thread or a PM (don't remember which) when she claimed to be AFK (via the old forum's activity tracker).
@Rhand: Voting before reading the whole thread seems a bit sloppy.
@Cythare: I don't know if discussing old stuff is going to get us anywhere. Let's keep this short.
#38 seemed to me to miss Sir Chris's point completely: you just used more words to say the same thing you said before.
#107 sounds very fake to me.
#186: the "nice rebuttal" part with that smiley. What other use than making AI look bad could that possibly have?
The back and forth between you and AI isn't important for now anyways. It will be if one of you flips scum.
I'm going to disagree on #38 with you, especially in the context of the surrounding discussion, don't know what to tell you about #107, and the point of #186 was to troll AI about his relatively useless, curt responses.
I'll condense the Proph case for you if you can tell me exactly what posts I made it in.
It's not that important to me.
As to why Proph is town, well, he's mirroring my thoughts pretty much to a T. I see the normal amount of analytical thinking I normally see in Proph-town, etc.
Is he mirroring them after you post them HP, or before?
Just because his thoughts line up with your doesn't mean that he's town, even if were convinced you are. He could just be mimicking you to appear more town and/or to buddy up to you.
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So I noticed that manders has done three things for the majority of this game day.
1) Respond to things I have said. (MUCH, MUCH more often than anyone else)
2) Post large posts of her reread.
3) This:
Quote from MandersHex »
I want to hear from everyone before I make a decision on who to vote.
Quote from MandersHex »
I'm here, but I see I have questions to respond to. I'm busy with my other game atm, but I'll post here before I do there. Going afk, when I come back, posting here.
Quote from MandersHex »
I'm pretty sure I already said this once, but I'm focusing on my other game atm. I've said PM should be lynched. I've made my stance on that known.
Quote from MandersHex »
I'm going to do that when I make the case. Grin
Quote from MandersHex »
I'll get to it tomorrow.
Quote from MandersHex »
I was just going to re-read PMs posts, but I'm going to re-read the game now, try to get a better feel for everyone.
Quote from MandersHex »
Ok, I'm here and I'll have lots of stuff soon enough.
Quote from MandersHex »
For reference, I'm on pg. 9. More to come tomorrow.
Quote from MandersHex »
I've been distracted with my other game. I'm trying to stagger re-reading them both so that both get my attention, so I appreciate the ongoing patience. I'll continue my read tomorrow, most likely.
Quote from MandersHex »
Seriously, though, my other game's taking up all my time, but it's going into night in 48 hours, so I will likely get back to working on the re-read later tonight.
Quote from MandersHex »
I will have to re-read him.
Unfortunately, my furoticon cards arrived today (:dance:), so I won't be doing anything tonight.
Quote from MandersHex »
I'll be back later with a post. Didn't realize I'd missed so much.
Quote from MandersHex »
I'm going to get on that re-read of you, probably tonight, depending on you OOG actually, haha.
Quote from MandersHex »
Sorry I didn't get more done, but I'm going to bed. Really sleepy tonight for some reason.
Pgs 15-? to come tomorrow. Well, suppose I should say later today.
Quote from MandersHex »
Be back with more soon.
Quote from MandersHex »
Sorry, guys, RL prevented me from getting anything done. I'll try to have something up soon, but no guarantees. At the latest, later today.
Quote from MandersHex »
Ok, so yesterday was crazy, but I'm here and I'll be starting the next leg of the re-read as soon as I post in my other game. That shouldn't take too long.
Sorry, and thanks for the patience.
Quote from MandersHex »
Pgs 21-? coming...whenever it comes. I'm not promising anything anymore.
Quote from MandersHex »
I'll be back with a list. Pre-occupied with another game atm.
And some I probably missed (feel free to call me out on forgetting one, lol)
Aha. That's about what I thought. And it does seem like it can be a scumtell, but I can't say it's a slam-dunk guarantee. In Castlevania, we had a user (Crossfiyah) who was basically confirmed town as a PR, and he spent like a Day and a half promising re-reads and content and never delivering them.
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Aha. That's about what I thought. And it does seem like it can be a scumtell, but I can't say it's a slam-dunk guarantee. In Castlevania, we had a user (Crossfiyah) who was basically confirmed town as a PR, and he spent like a Day and a half promising re-reads and content and never delivering them.
That's a special case -- when a player is confirmed town, the cosmic forces cause that person to be the most useless townie in the entire game.
@Iso: Is your town read on Arian primarily gut/meta? He mentioned in his response to me that he doesn't generally scumhunt on D1. My gut reaction to that is to call bull****, but I need to check a few of his completed town games for reference first.
@DCIII: I'm still digesting your wall of text response. To be frank, I hated reading it. I don't generally have the patience to read that much from one post at one time. Your response seems candid, which is a plus, but there is a large amount of AtE in there as well which is something else completely new from you.
@Proph: You got the early Wildfire wagon going because of his first post. Later, in 55, you elaborated on your reasoning by calling the post in question IIoA. In that same post, you also said this:
It's a mostly housekeeping post, and I think it's null. I do think that AI should post something not related to mechanics optimization/discussion soon, however.
Alaway seems like a better place than Ruchperion to start with. All Ruch does is eat up unspent vitality. It's probably a great place to end up at in the endgame, since it will likely be the last to collapse, but to start out, Alaway seems like the place to go. Especially if we've got a Doc or Watcher floating around.
Vote Rhand, because, like Generic, you've managed to trick me in the past two games we've been in together.
On that note, locking players into only being able to vote for the choice of whoever happened to propose a move first seems a bit strange (and possibly beneficial to scum during LyLo). I would have expected the voting to require a player to second the proposal for it to go through, like IRL Mafia.
@zindabad: Is Vitality supposed to be public information? If so, can we get an update to the OP, plz?
Both posts contained an RVS vote and some mechanical discussion. The only difference was a mod question in AI's post.
What makes those posts so different to you? Why is Wildfire's IIoA, but AI's just "housekeeping"?
@Rhand: You posted your catch up posts and definitively stated that AI is scum. You also posted in your T/S list that Cythare is a strong scumread. Both of those players are under the microscope and have established wagons. But then you turn and vote EtR. Why? 1000+ posts into the game, this is counter-productive.
Now some general notes:
- I'm beginning to rethink my town read on Sir Chris. As the day continues, he is reminding me more and more of masterplum in Xymande, where a relatively unknown but clearly experienced player came in mostly lecturing us on theory and general how-the-game-should-be-played.
- I was asked for my reasoning on a few reads: I have Megiddo as town because he is baiting for reactions, engaging anyone and everyone and pressuring lurkers to post more. This is all pro-town behavior. My town read on Karn is more gut, but his focus on one player for most of the day doesn't look like his scum game.
- If AI is lynched toDay and flips scum, Proph is a fine start to the day toMorrow. Or to eat a vig shot.
- I have some thoughts on the early Wildfire wagon, and I will post them in a separate post shortly.
@Rhand: You posted your catch up posts and definitively stated that AI is scum. You also posted in your T/S list that Cythare is a strong scumread. Both of those players are under the microscope and have established wagons. But then you turn and vote EtR. Why? 1000+ posts into the game, this is counter-productive.
Because EtR is where I want my pressure right now.
If we're heading towards a lynch and the EtR wagon didn't pick up, I'm more than happy to join an AI or Cythare wagon.
AI >>> Cythare for that matter; I'm starting to doubt my Cythare read.
Wildfire393 - Prophylaxis (20), Niv (27), Seppel (68), Sir Chris (174), DCIII (187), Sir Karn (188), Iso (190), rezombied (193)
1. Proph gets the ball rolling in 20, citing Wildfire's first post. Proph later follows up by claiming IIoA, but Wildfire's first post was the 7th player post of the game. I have already noted this before, but Proph's blew off AI's first post which also contained no analysis of any kind.
2. Niv comes in second in 27. Niv's has been completely AWOL, but the vote specifically is null because I know he is not a fan of RVS analysis.
3. Seppel votes in 68, mostly out of nowhere and with no analysis at all. This is unhelpful at best and questionable at worst, though multiple players have stated this is how town!Seppel plays things.
4. Sir Chris jumps on in 174, and his points seem fair.
5. DCIII jumps on in 187, primarily based on meta. The vote isn't scummy in content, but I disagree with his meta analysis and the timing/position is bad.
7. Iso comes on board in 190, in what appears to me to be typical Iso fashion. I don't think there is anything to be gleaned here.
8. Rezombied with a naked vote in 193. This is suspect in and of itself since it was his second post of the game (which immediately followed his first), but couple this with the fact that lurking is a scumtell for him and this looks very suspect.
- A side note: AI mentioned multiple times that Wildfire needed to be lynched, but he never voted him.
As the Wildfire wagon reaches this point (L-3), the Sir Chris wagon starts to pick up steam, headed by a desCoures vote and immediate follow-up by Arian. Seppel is the first to jump wagons, then Sir Chris himself unvotes Wildfire. If Wildfire should ever end up flipping scum, this needs to be revisited.
Proph and rezombied are the two most suspect votes on the list in terms of context and behavior outside of the wagon. If someone told me there is a scum in the middle, I would put my money on either Sir Chris or DCIII. Scum!Karn piggybacking town!Seppel is a possibility, but I'm town reading Karn right now.
1. Well we're both moving at the same time so I just thought I would address your Time Issues argument.
2. Discrediting will take more time to explain. I will dig into that later.
3. I don't care who you were replying to because it's irrelevant. You are making an argument that I (and others) have already established is scummy. I'm pointing it out in the funniest way possible, which is by posting a post where I said that I would lynch the next person to do something. I mean, I did this better in Smalltown Swap with Karn and the "secret word" thing (though I was wrong there IIRC), but hey. Something about rakes.
Hm. Opinion on Meg changing.
Point #1 - So, your argument, then, is that because you are moving at the same time as me that is somehow relevant to my situation i.e. because you're able to manage it then I should be able to? I shouldn't need to point out the logical fallacy in that argument and it makes me think that you're clinging to this point.
Point #2 - Okay.
Point #3 - Firstly, your language "have established" my argument is scummy is loaded but, aside from that, what have you established is scummy about my argument? That I was explaining why I was frustrated with you and why I had a period of this game where I was less involved? Or that I was explaining it to DK who specifically said that he'd never seen me play like this as town when the fact is that he's never seen me play like this at all. So, it's scummy for me to draw that distinction or, I should just let it go uncontested that he thinks that because I haven't played like this it means I'm scum?
@Cythare - I did approach it head on with Meg - because it's Meg and I'm familiar with him and I had a strong town read on him, and I had twice addressed his activity point, once to him directly and once more braodly, and he still had concern apparently about other stuff, so I wanted to address it because I thought we could get on the same page, which is why I was so annoyed when he started being cagey about his read.
I wouldn't have put myself on blast like that if I was scum, I'd have made him come to me. Remember at that time in the game I was under no pressure at all. Believe that or not, it's true.
@Seppel - panic because Killjoy was taking pressure in a 21 person game? I just panicked and started going off on Meg because he voted KJ when others also had been? That doesn't make sense.
@Iso - why ask that question if the implication wasn't that you found it hard to believe? I flatly said that I was suspicious of both you and Seppel. When else do you think I put words in your mouth? RE: AI - I didn't read him as backing down around you, no. Since then his wanting to ignore you and Rhand's point about him forgetting about KJ look worse, though.
Is he mirroring them after you post them HP, or before?
Just because his thoughts line up with your doesn't mean that he's town, even if were convinced you are. He could just be mimicking you to appear more town and/or to buddy up to you.
Well, obviously I'm not posting.
But it's not only that, but it's in how he has presented his thoughts. I can see the thought process behind it pretty clear and it's normal-Proph.
Firstly, your language "have established" my argument is scummy is loaded but, aside from that, what have you established is scummy about my argument? That I was explaining why I was frustrated with you and why I had a period of this game where I was less involved? Or that I was explaining it to DK who specifically said that he'd never seen me play like this as town when the fact is that he's never seen me play like this at all. So, it's scummy for me to draw that distinction or, I should just let it go uncontested that he thinks that because I haven't played like this it means I'm scum?
Wait a minute, you are well-versed in comparing people's play from one game to the next, and now you're saying that we should just ignore the fact that you are completely outside of your normal town meta?
so, hi, I really need to be up to date in this. I really wish I'd never let myself fall behind early, but here's more. trying to type less so I'm up to date faster. I know it's only 2 pages, but I need to force myself to post more stuff even when I only have time to read 2 pages. as always, sorry.
Page 6: I'm not sure what to make of the odd little continuation of the exchange between wildfire, cythare, AI, and Megs from the start of the page.
Meg's response to wildfire's vote on AI however makes me double back on a lot of this. wildfire's response to this as well starts making me rethink wildfire now. it's just really off that meg's is responding to the Vote on AI in this way, given that he's already said AI is probably scum. though I'm not sure if it's meg's response that's making me feel better about wildfire, or wildfire's actions themselves.
I'm continueing to feel better about chris here. feels like a 100% town post. while I don't agree with him on Ahrin, the way he typed out his logic feels like it comes from a town mindset. that and meg's response to it just feels really odd. not even sure if it makes him scum, but the way it's phrased just makes me rethink meg. it's like, go ahead push this guy, heck, what he did was a scum tell, but I'm not going to get truly involved.
Page 7: Chris votes meg. Chris is most likely town imo. and meg's responses just blow my mind. I'm not sure what to think, but whatever I am thinking, it's not good.
the page continues, Proph is leaning town. Wildfire is scum. I'm also thinking here that there's no way alot of the people in this thread can be scum with wildfire. so, when he flips, his interactions will be really worth looking at. but really, wildfire is imploding by this point. posts like this responce to hooker, and his sudden switch to "pressuring" seppel really just arn't good.
Aha. That's about what I thought. And it does seem like it can be a scumtell, but I can't say it's a slam-dunk guarantee. In Castlevania, we had a user (Crossfiyah) who was basically confirmed town as a PR, and he spent like a Day and a half promising re-reads and content and never delivering them.
I'm also notorious for this as either alignment when work schedules get crazy.
@Iso: Is your town read on Arian primarily gut/meta? He mentioned in his response to me that he doesn't generally scumhunt on D1. My gut reaction to that is to call bull****, but I need to check a few of his completed town games for reference first.
I pretty much make gut/meta calls until I see something worth latching onto and then I might make a big case - this also happens when I reread, which is usually when the game situation is unfavorable for the town.
@Iso - why ask that question if the implication wasn't that you found it hard to believe? I flatly said that I was suspicious of both you and Seppel. When else do you think I put words in your mouth? RE: AI - I didn't read him as backing down around you, no. Since then his wanting to ignore you and Rhand's point about him forgetting about KJ look worse, though.
I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@ Proph: do you have any experience whatsoever playing with Wildfire?
One in Industry Mafia, and one in Deus Ex.
I also mentored him in Castlevania.
Quote from LnG »
You still haven explained why you thought my votes were random. Also, you need to rad the game again? Didn't you just read the game like, a week ago? What makes a reread a necessity?
Your votes were random because your Niv and Sir Karn votes were either lurker hunting (Niv) or voting someone who clearly wasn't going to answer your question (Sir Karn).
I need to read the game again because I have a pile of Not Town that I need to sort out. The game is also moving at a million miles per hour.
Quote from HP »
As to why Proph is town, well, he's mirroring my thoughts pretty much to a T. I see the normal amount of analytical thinking I normally see in Proph-town, etc.
Besides the Seppel thing, what other thoughts have I been mirroring you on?
Quote from dkings »
@Proph: You got the early Wildfire wagon going because of his first post. Later, in 55, you elaborated on your reasoning by calling the post in question IIoA. In that same post, you also said this:
Wildfire also has the "Iso tell" that he used to catch you in Pleasantville, and that was part of the reason why I voted him so quickly out of the gates.
Quote from Wildfire »
Vote Rhand, because, like Generic, you've managed to trick me in the past two games we've been in together.
I hate how Niv is still talking about page 6 when we're on page /42/. On the other hand, I'm not sure if Wildfire/Niv fit on the same scumteam.
I was about to say HEY PROPH why aren't you voting Killjoy and then I realized that the most recent votecount is nearly 250 posts ago, over 4 days old.
With 21 alive, it's 11 to lynch or move.
At the end of the day, after the lynch, you will move to Ruchperion, Land of Ceaseless Hunger.
No changes to Vitality since my last post.
***
Kpaca is being replaced. HookerPunch is on notice to provide content soon. Rhand is OK because of pre-scheduled V/LA.
We need votecounts more frequent than we're getting them, so here goes:
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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Town
Arian – puts a lot of effort in the posts he makes. Sign of town!Arian
Wildfire – I see no differences with his normal town!play
Sir Chris – reads genuine
DCIII – very good posts and case on AI is spot on
Lean town
Iso – Not 100% sure, but this looks like normal Iso to me
hansanator – gut. Scum!Hans would've done weird things by now.
HookerPunch – plays like I'm used to from him, but don't have enough experience with him to be sure.
Null
Megiddo – moved to null from scum because I reread the whole situation and I like his explanation of his meta-change. Still wary though.
KillJoy – GIP makes me think there's something in his personal life that makes him make mistakes like the 4 scum thing. Don't think that's alignment-telling.
Descoures – not much content
Rezombied – not much content
Kpaca / Dkings – not much content from Kpaca. I disagree with most of Dking's reads.
lean scum
Proph – He's to be accusing Wildfire of stuff that Wildfire always does. Will move up depending on the answer to my question.
Karn – feels like RtR all over again. If this is town!Karn, then please adopt a new playstyle because this is terrible.
Niv – I disagree with almost everything he says. The endless postponing of promised content looks ugly.
Lngrrr – The slapfest with EtR looked very forced. He's asking pointless questions.
Scum
Seppel – read might change when I have meta-input, but my gut screams that Seppel is scum.
AI – #299 says it all: he's not interested in the game. Also, #357 (the post I quoted earlier). The only thing that gives me pause is the massclaim thing... but he didn't really propose it; he only mentioned the possibility.
Cythare – #38 is bad: he's totally overreacting to Chris's attack. In #107 he tries to hard to justify a Wildfire scum read. He also spoilers his thoughts on players, making it seem he has got something to hide.
EtR – Never follows up on his 'scumhunts'. Posts like #73 are just looking busy, that's not genuine looking for scum. The back and forth with Lngr around #314 reads completely forced.
I'm not a fan of the KJ wagon.
Willing to lynch any of AI, Cythare and EtR.
Also ok with Seppel and LnGrrR if the above don't happen.
Too unsure of my other lean scums to commit to them.
unvote, vote EtR because he's the read I'm most sure of.
He's replying to your ad hom with ad hom.
GUYS GUYS
UNIVERSAL SCUMTELLS DON'T APPLY TO KILLJOY
Looks like that's incontrovertible proof that he's town after all unvo- hey wait a minute
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Oh that makes that point moot then. You're still scum though.
Is your read based primarily on those two early posts?
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
29: wording is exactly how scum often explain their selves. The topic makes it null, but watch him!
38: over-explaining himself; overreaction and wrong defense vs Chris
107: trying too hard to find something about WF
186: mudsling against AI (who is voting him)
302: self-defence the only thing to do?
I also strongly disliked your back and forth with AI. That didn't seem genuine.
You still haven explained why you thought my votes were random. Also, you need to rad the game again? Didn't you just read the game like, a week ago? What makes a reread a necessity?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
On:
#29: I feel like this was discussed already.
#38: I don't understand.
#107: I thought it was a slip, so I questioned it.
#186: What?
#302: Fair point. I felt like anything else I had worth saying had already been said, though, so
I'm not sure what to tell you on the back and forth with AI.
It is Wednesday?
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
#38 seemed to me to miss Sir Chris's point completely: you just used more words to say the same thing you said before.
#107 sounds very fake to me.
#186: the "nice rebuttal" part with that smiley. What other use than making AI look bad could that possibly have?
The back and forth between you and AI isn't important for now anyways. It will be if one of you flips scum.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
MandersHex is a former MTGS Mafia player who would claim to be busy to avoid posting content while under scrutiny. At one point Seppel caught scum!Manders reading a thread or a PM (don't remember which) when she claimed to be AFK (via the old forum's activity tracker).
@Rhand: Voting before reading the whole thread seems a bit sloppy.
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Eh what?
But I'll miss you.
It's not that important to me.
As to why Proph is town, well, he's mirroring my thoughts pretty much to a T. I see the normal amount of analytical thinking I normally see in Proph-town, etc.
Either way, we're all gonna burn
Just because his thoughts line up with your doesn't mean that he's town, even if were convinced you are. He could just be mimicking you to appear more town and/or to buddy up to you.
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That's a special case -- when a player is confirmed town, the cosmic forces cause that person to be the most useless townie in the entire game.
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Then vote please.
@Iso: Is your town read on Arian primarily gut/meta? He mentioned in his response to me that he doesn't generally scumhunt on D1. My gut reaction to that is to call bull****, but I need to check a few of his completed town games for reference first.
@DCIII: I'm still digesting your wall of text response. To be frank, I hated reading it. I don't generally have the patience to read that much from one post at one time. Your response seems candid, which is a plus, but there is a large amount of AtE in there as well which is something else completely new from you.
@Proph: You got the early Wildfire wagon going because of his first post. Later, in 55, you elaborated on your reasoning by calling the post in question IIoA. In that same post, you also said this:
Here are those two posts:
Both posts contained an RVS vote and some mechanical discussion. The only difference was a mod question in AI's post.
What makes those posts so different to you? Why is Wildfire's IIoA, but AI's just "housekeeping"?
@Rhand: You posted your catch up posts and definitively stated that AI is scum. You also posted in your T/S list that Cythare is a strong scumread. Both of those players are under the microscope and have established wagons. But then you turn and vote EtR. Why? 1000+ posts into the game, this is counter-productive.
Now some general notes:
- I'm beginning to rethink my town read on Sir Chris. As the day continues, he is reminding me more and more of masterplum in Xymande, where a relatively unknown but clearly experienced player came in mostly lecturing us on theory and general how-the-game-should-be-played.
- I was asked for my reasoning on a few reads: I have Megiddo as town because he is baiting for reactions, engaging anyone and everyone and pressuring lurkers to post more. This is all pro-town behavior. My town read on Karn is more gut, but his focus on one player for most of the day doesn't look like his scum game.
- If AI is lynched toDay and flips scum, Proph is a fine start to the day toMorrow. Or to eat a vig shot.
- I have some thoughts on the early Wildfire wagon, and I will post them in a separate post shortly.
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Because EtR is where I want my pressure right now.
If we're heading towards a lynch and the EtR wagon didn't pick up, I'm more than happy to join an AI or Cythare wagon.
AI >>> Cythare for that matter; I'm starting to doubt my Cythare read.
Wildfire393 - Prophylaxis (20), Niv (27), Seppel (68), Sir Chris (174), DCIII (187), Sir Karn (188), Iso (190), rezombied (193)
1. Proph gets the ball rolling in 20, citing Wildfire's first post. Proph later follows up by claiming IIoA, but Wildfire's first post was the 7th player post of the game. I have already noted this before, but Proph's blew off AI's first post which also contained no analysis of any kind.
2. Niv comes in second in 27. Niv's has been completely AWOL, but the vote specifically is null because I know he is not a fan of RVS analysis.
3. Seppel votes in 68, mostly out of nowhere and with no analysis at all. This is unhelpful at best and questionable at worst, though multiple players have stated this is how town!Seppel plays things.
4. Sir Chris jumps on in 174, and his points seem fair.
5. DCIII jumps on in 187, primarily based on meta. The vote isn't scummy in content, but I disagree with his meta analysis and the timing/position is bad.
6. Sir Karn places a mostly naked vote in 188.
7. Iso comes on board in 190, in what appears to me to be typical Iso fashion. I don't think there is anything to be gleaned here.
8. Rezombied with a naked vote in 193. This is suspect in and of itself since it was his second post of the game (which immediately followed his first), but couple this with the fact that lurking is a scumtell for him and this looks very suspect.
- A side note: AI mentioned multiple times that Wildfire needed to be lynched, but he never voted him.
As the Wildfire wagon reaches this point (L-3), the Sir Chris wagon starts to pick up steam, headed by a desCoures vote and immediate follow-up by Arian. Seppel is the first to jump wagons, then Sir Chris himself unvotes Wildfire. If Wildfire should ever end up flipping scum, this needs to be revisited.
Proph and rezombied are the two most suspect votes on the list in terms of context and behavior outside of the wagon. If someone told me there is a scum in the middle, I would put my money on either Sir Chris or DCIII. Scum!Karn piggybacking town!Seppel is a possibility, but I'm town reading Karn right now.
Why?
Hm. Opinion on Meg changing.
Point #1 - So, your argument, then, is that because you are moving at the same time as me that is somehow relevant to my situation i.e. because you're able to manage it then I should be able to? I shouldn't need to point out the logical fallacy in that argument and it makes me think that you're clinging to this point.
Point #2 - Okay.
Point #3 - Firstly, your language "have established" my argument is scummy is loaded but, aside from that, what have you established is scummy about my argument? That I was explaining why I was frustrated with you and why I had a period of this game where I was less involved? Or that I was explaining it to DK who specifically said that he'd never seen me play like this as town when the fact is that he's never seen me play like this at all. So, it's scummy for me to draw that distinction or, I should just let it go uncontested that he thinks that because I haven't played like this it means I'm scum?
@Cythare - I did approach it head on with Meg - because it's Meg and I'm familiar with him and I had a strong town read on him, and I had twice addressed his activity point, once to him directly and once more braodly, and he still had concern apparently about other stuff, so I wanted to address it because I thought we could get on the same page, which is why I was so annoyed when he started being cagey about his read.
I wouldn't have put myself on blast like that if I was scum, I'd have made him come to me. Remember at that time in the game I was under no pressure at all. Believe that or not, it's true.
@Seppel - panic because Killjoy was taking pressure in a 21 person game? I just panicked and started going off on Meg because he voted KJ when others also had been? That doesn't make sense.
@Iso - why ask that question if the implication wasn't that you found it hard to believe? I flatly said that I was suspicious of both you and Seppel. When else do you think I put words in your mouth? RE: AI - I didn't read him as backing down around you, no. Since then his wanting to ignore you and Rhand's point about him forgetting about KJ look worse, though.
Town Win % = 75%
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2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
But it's not only that, but it's in how he has presented his thoughts. I can see the thought process behind it pretty clear and it's normal-Proph.
Either way, we're all gonna burn
Wait a minute, you are well-versed in comparing people's play from one game to the next, and now you're saying that we should just ignore the fact that you are completely outside of your normal town meta?
Because I apparently misjudged his response to Chris in his early posting, and that was the main reason for my suspicion.
Are you fully caught up?
Anyone "willing to vote" multiple players at this point had better justify that position with several points per player or you're .
I also just noticed your sig.
Are you dead?
Ah, no. I'm disappointed.
I am yes. Didn't I make that clear?
I also think my stances on you and EtR are well motivated, are they not?
Page 6: I'm not sure what to make of the odd little continuation of the exchange between wildfire, cythare, AI, and Megs from the start of the page.
Meg's response to wildfire's vote on AI however makes me double back on a lot of this. wildfire's response to this as well starts making me rethink wildfire now. it's just really off that meg's is responding to the Vote on AI in this way, given that he's already said AI is probably scum. though I'm not sure if it's meg's response that's making me feel better about wildfire, or wildfire's actions themselves.
I'm continueing to feel better about chris here. feels like a 100% town post. while I don't agree with him on Ahrin, the way he typed out his logic feels like it comes from a town mindset. that and meg's response to it just feels really odd. not even sure if it makes him scum, but the way it's phrased just makes me rethink meg. it's like, go ahead push this guy, heck, what he did was a scum tell, but I'm not going to get truly involved.
Page 7: Chris votes meg. Chris is most likely town imo. and meg's responses just blow my mind. I'm not sure what to think, but whatever I am thinking, it's not good.
the page continues, Proph is leaning town. Wildfire is scum. I'm also thinking here that there's no way alot of the people in this thread can be scum with wildfire. so, when he flips, his interactions will be really worth looking at. but really, wildfire is imploding by this point. posts like this responce to hooker, and his sudden switch to "pressuring" seppel really just arn't good.
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@DK: Did you approach that wagon analysis assuming Wildfire is town?
@DC3: Panic isn't rational. It doesn't need to make sense. But you're welcome to keep arguing it.
hansanator
etr
arianrhod
rezombied
descoures
I'll have something tonight or tomorrow night.
calm your tits, megs.
@Hooker: But you're scum, so that only supports my argument.
I'm also notorious for this as either alignment when work schedules get crazy.
Yyyep.
I pretty much make gut/meta calls until I see something worth latching onto and then I might make a big case - this also happens when I reread, which is usually when the game situation is unfavorable for the town.
I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
One in Industry Mafia, and one in Deus Ex.
I also mentored him in Castlevania.
Your votes were random because your Niv and Sir Karn votes were either lurker hunting (Niv) or voting someone who clearly wasn't going to answer your question (Sir Karn).
I need to read the game again because I have a pile of Not Town that I need to sort out. The game is also moving at a million miles per hour.
Besides the Seppel thing, what other thoughts have I been mirroring you on?
Wildfire also has the "Iso tell" that he used to catch you in Pleasantville, and that was part of the reason why I voted him so quickly out of the gates.
I hate how Niv is still talking about page 6 when we're on page /42/. On the other hand, I'm not sure if Wildfire/Niv fit on the same scumteam.
We need votecounts more frequent than we're getting them, so here goes:
killjoy (6) - Iso, Seppel, Megiddo, AsianInvasion, Sir Chris, DCIII
AsianInvasion (3) - Sir Karn, rezombied, Wildfire393
Cythare (2) - LnGrrrR, dkingsland967
LnGrrrR (2) - Cythare, Prophylaxis
EtR (1) - Rhand
Wildfire393 (1) - Niv
Seppel (1) - HookerPunch
Not Voting (5) - hansanator, desCoures, Killjoy, EtR, Arianrhod (lol almost everyone Megs listed)
21 alive, 11 to lynch.
...
HEY PROPH why aren't you voting Killjoy
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player