Doing this first. Even before my long-overdo shave that I've been putting off for two weeks. And my important Roleplay posts I haven't tended to in about a week. Feel special, mafia players.
Day 1: Nothing new here. Just bad vibes. I see a carbon copy of Katawa Shoujo Iso.
-"Your argument is weak and fails to take into consideration the circumstances present in each game you reference. I can't see the town motivation in this fabricated push - especially not on such faulty premises."
I don't like this all of a sudden, for a lot of reasons. My original case was strictly intuition; and apparently that wasn't the premise of my argument anymore, just what I thought was a good comaprison but actually wasn't.
-this is a fine post but doesn't do anything for my alignment on him. He's under a lot of pressure, do all the towny things?
-In fact, in a lot of his posts, there's nothing definitively scummy, but that's what made me so sure of my read in Katawa Shoujo. It just seemed too crafted to be town-oriented. Key word crafted. I have no definitive proof, it's just my feeling from reading the posts.
-@talking about Tanarin, "And which do you think is more likely for the latter?" I still hate this quite a lot. Manipulative in all forms. I still never called them scummy, implicitly or otherwise, so it's really a non-issue. Just you trying to prod in on the issue where you don't belong. you're trying to turn me on Tanarin who I believe to be town and would make another *****ty case if you managed to convince me otherwise and get run up again and maybe even lynched. You'd just love that.
Day 2: A lot of other player's really bad playing makes it look easy for Iso to get instant believability. I don't think Iso's contributing anything besides calling people out on what they should've naturally been called out for anyway, not really adding anything new. Perfect to make it look like you're doing something without actually doing it. If you're actually town Iso, Please, eliminate these clowns with your saint points, I know deep down in my heart that you're going to have them if you're somehow not scum.
-I like the votes on Shockwave. If he's your buddy, this is a great gambit. You'd be able to ride that lynch until endgame and no one would have a clue. Well, until I put you on my hammer and take your ass down with me. This is speculative, I'm assuming I would be sainted. I wouldn't doubt that at this point, my play is awful.
-"The fact of the matter is that asking you, "And which do you think is more likely?" was a genuine question, and the fact that you got buttmad about it struck me as scum resentment for heading your poor attack on Tanarin at the pass."
Yeah no. No times a thousand.
-Lol @ Wheat's push. I don't think I like Wheat this game. I can't call him scum because -- actually. I'll address this later.
-"You're trying to worm your way out of this because you just need an excuse to vote me since I've crumbled each and every reason you've given to do so."
Nope because I didn't call him scummy lol. I hope you've gotten over this because I haven't gosh is annoys the crap out of me.
-Iso is totally right about Karn/Tanarin/JAR votes, but in all honesty, that's not hard to deduce. Iso's lack of a face makes this impossible to tell if genuine or fabricated as a reaction. Totally null.
-"JAR and Karn are scummy, but the lack of reasoning makes it harder to call them out for their play, here."
I actually agree.
-"I don't expect you to be honest if you're scum."
Good thing I'm not scum! Too bad you are!
-"I'll happily hammer Tanarin or Asenion, whichever we lynch."
I never once liked any proclamations of willingness to hammer for some reason. I know I've done it once (I'm pretty sure) but I can't remember why because I remember hating them so much. this doesn't make you town or scum though. I think the willingness to hammer is too easy of a shot here.
-Iso still attacking Shockwave's slot, now asenion: rightfully so. I'd be doing the same.
---
JAR's turn! You'd get a youtube video of a cool song to hear while reading too if yours wasn't so dang easy.
You've hardly done anything but spread the hate, dawdle, and cause people to react without analysing any of those reactions. I don't think you can be lynched soon enough but unfortunately only can do one of those a day.
---
Asension:
"Who has been scummy? And who should I focus on while reading?"
I don't think I'd ever say this as town? The other questions, sure perhaps, but no.
"EBWODP: And the other reason we shouldn't rearrange wagons is because Wagon Analysis is one of the best tools we have to catch scum this game. Especially if saints flip later, we can go back and look at who cared about their position on the wagon. I don't want artificially constructed wagons disrupting the natural flow that could catch scum."
So you're saying we shouldn't be careful about hammer/L-1 so we can possibly save other townies/nail scum? I'd willing to bet on the discussion concerning lynch positions alone is enough to draw out scum. They would try their hardest not to hammer a sainted towny imho. I don't like your shaking off the mentality that choosing hammers/L-1 being conducive. Wagon analysis is great normally but these aren't ordinary wagons.
"Shoot, just realized who Jey is. Jey always buddies Iso regardless of alignment. There might be nothing there."
I'm buddying Iso? Excuse me?
"This game is special too, because I don't see any reason to lie about anything. Scum have no power here. There are no PRs to manipulate or hide. This is a purely cooperation game where we have to find the scum before it's too late. (3 mislynches if things go badly, 4 mislynches under normal circumstances, 5 mislynches if the scum misplay)"
This feels fake to me. Completely. Or forced. Whatever term you prefer.
"What do you find fake about me? What is driving you up the wall?"
See above ^
"Here are my opinions:
Willing to bet the game on these 3 being town: Void, Niv, Bolly
FOS: Tanarin, Sir Karn
Hammer: Karn
L-1: Jey, Tanarin, or choice of Iso
Will lynch toDay: Iso, Tanarin
Vote Iso"
You talk about not wanting to arrange wagons and then state who you want to be at the end of wagons? Lol.
"I am really disappointed at the activity level in this thread right now. People should be asking me questions about my reads. Or commenting on the fact that I just put Iso back at L-2."
Fluff in the purest form, especially for how soon this was posted.
-dinner break-
"This is awkward. I guess most of you guys post while I'm sleeping. I can do some posting during the day at work, but mostly 6-10EST is my available time. That's why it annoys me that I made a post on my lunch break and it didn't get any responses by the time I was home for me to respond to."
You didn't realize this topic has been moving pretty slow? Give it at least a day.
"Suspicious is probably the perfect word here. I don't directly think he's scum and it would take convincing to get me to vote for him, but I want him to put his money where his mouth is and hammer any wagons he votes for. In hindsight, I don't actually want him to be forced to hammer a wagon he wouldn't vote on his own. Or in other words, Karn has been a loudmouth this game and I want him to put up or shut up. Scum have the best reasons ever to be leaders in this set-up."
Another mention of tailoring a wagon despite earlier opinion.
"@Niv: Re: Shockwave: I think Shockwave was monumentally unimpressive Day 1 and said a couple of stupid things. I would probably have him leaning scum and needing more interaction if I replaced in as someone else right now. I would also mark him as lynch bait for the next time I needed to pull pressure off a lynch that I didn't want to happen."
What even is this?
"And Shockwave shouldn't be near the top of anyone's scumlists."
Spoilers, he was, and you're not fairing any better. The rest of this post is needless whining.
"Are you claiming that you ARE scumbuddies with JeY? Because I don't understand your argument right now."
I lol'd
"Re: all ISO gambits are scum gambits
There's very little reason for Town gambits in this open set-up."
Wasn't Iso town-gambitting in Majora's Mask? I'm pretty sure he was, for the short time he was alive. not that I'm defending him, but this is about you, not him, at the moment., I've already cased Iso a bazillion times but I'm never going to see his damn lynch because no one takes me seriously. -being dramatic- (looking at you, Wheat).
"The gambit in question is Iso setting himself up to fail in a way that JeY would notice, defeating the arguments, playing stupid, and then being emotionally manipulative to "clear" himself based on "bad play lately". This sequence of events has a very Iso flavor to them. Town don't need to try so hard to look stupid early this game because the Scum can't kill us and there are no hidden roles to affect behavior. Between those two aspects I can't imagine why Town need to run gambits."
Iso isn't setting himself up, he just lost against my intuition again. Plus he's been weary of his Mafia'ing as of recently. I dont like this post, even if I don't like Iso.
---
Now, for the newer stuff: (Oh my, there's even been posts while I was writing this thing!)
-"Why is there an Asenion/Iso dichotomy in your mind?"
Almost missed this! And bad phrasing on my part, I think it's more likely that JAR and one of you are scum, but the fact that you even bring this up makes this interesting. I definitely believe the two of you could be scum together and whoever doesn't get lynched rides until endgame (like I said before), just less likely.
@Tanarin: I believe you're town, I'd rather not have you die to prove it. I also don't believe you're sainted so there's nothing to gain from lynching you either. But otherwise that's a fine post.
@Niv: Double sainted Shockwave.
---
Anything I missed? Just let me know, I rushed to get this post done because it's already 7:42pm and I have other stuff to take care of. Like shaving. God damn I need to shave. 7:42 might not seem late but as someone who goes to bed around 10 to get up for their full time job well, it's late :V.
if you were a pope, who would you have sainted night 2? I would have double sainted shockwave.
Either 1/1 split of Shock and Iso or two on Shock. Only reason I would not 2 on Iso is because he is still a hard person to get lynched no matter if he is scum or town, and right now it is still in the scums best interest to be hedging bets on who they put points on.
As for why I would at least consider only one on shock, while shockwave was indeed the hot speculation for an easy lynch coming into day 2, smart scum would have realized someone would at least try to stop the wagon to give the spot a chance to prove itself. And if the replacement played better than shock (Not hard to do I know,) Double points may become wasted yet again.
Whoops, forgot that I was gonna address Wheat. Welp, now that a good portion of body hair is removed, let us do that.
In house Mafia where Wheat was scum, I was pretty sure he was town but my intuition gave me jack-all about his alignment. I felt like I couldn't possibly have a good handle on him either way, but I couldn't point out anything scummy.
I know that recently Wheat has not wanted to get caught by Iso as much so he probably changed his play with a few tweaks since then, but I'm having the same feeling now. I don't think I have a good read on Wheat and that makes me nervous. I would say that, as a result, the sooner he dies the better, but I having nothing definitive to back this up other than his really unorthodox posts. I feel they're more town in nature even if he's floppier than a fish, since I think he'd be more careful than that as scum, especially without a nightkill.
And I would also expect that Wheat expects that and therefore flop mercilessly all over the damn place to ensure that he's just a really carefree town, or something. That also scares me.
TL;DR I can't read Wheat this game and I don't like that but I don't think he's scum really. Not right now anyway.
Man, I forgot how much time it took to properly analyze things in Mafia. This new Curse software doesn't help a lick either and it stops me from quoting a bunch of things at once.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
nope, it really doesn't. I've pretty much given up on using quotes, but I was never really a fan of them before either.
while you're here, want to answer the question I asked everyone? if you were a pope, who would you have sainted night 2? and I guess since you replaced in, who would you have sainted as a pope in the pregame night one?
if you were a pope, who would you have sainted night 2?
If I weren't me, I'd have Sainted myself and then defended myself relentlessly so that the entire wagon didn't require me being on it to go through and then end in a massive explosion. That said, I am me, so I'd have probably put the points on Jey and pushed that lynch relentlessly on the grounds that the Arch wagon was basically the counterwagon to the Jey wagon, and Arch flipped town, which would have made it easy to push Jey off of that.
-
@Jey: Your analysis of my posts consists of "Iso did scummy things here, here, here, here, and here, but all of the townie things he did don't matter because I'm overplaying the 'Iso is scum' card". Care to take the rose-colored glasses off?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
OOG: Hey Iso what do you think of JAR's sig? I just noticed it, and it makes me think back to basic...52 maybe? somewhere around there.
I want to just to say for the record that there no hidden clues/messages in my signature. It's just a sig.
I respond to everything else later.
There's a game where Iso would not let up on someone and lynched them for having a very similar sig.
He was insufferable when it turned out true. I was very nearly lynched because I didn't believe it. Luckily I was the vig and turned the info around and correctly vigged Night 1.
Iso may have bad memories of the game because 1. I shot him and 2. I misvigged and mislynched from then on, ending up in lylo. We only won because the final scum botched his claim.
So are you implying that since Iso isn't pushing that angle here after being successful and insufferable about it in the past that JAR and Iso are scumbuddies?
I just like to rub it in because it was later proved to be a false tell; Iso got lucky on a coincidence. That's why I said OOG.
Today is looking like the lynch is between myself, Iso and Asenion (as of now). If Iso are Asenion are to be lynched, I gladly volunteer to be the hammer. The way I see it, odds are one if not both of them have some sort of saint points on them, and by me hammering them, that also eliminates myself from the suspect pool (And also denies a target to scum should I somehow not be the lynch today.) Do note, I am not completely sold on Asenion being scum here, but I will do whatever I can to not only clear my name, but also eliminate any distraction I will be in coming days.
Should I be the lynch however, I do request Iso is the hammer on me. Since he seems confident to lead a wagon on me, he should GLADLY want to hammer me if he feels I am scum, as no harm will come to him. I will let the town decide the L-1 spot. It also provides a chance to eliminate another scummy looking player from the pool should I have any points on myself.
This is a very pope thing to say. You know if the person is unsainted, so know if you are safe.
Whoops, forgot that I was gonna address Wheat. Welp, now that a good portion of body hair is removed, let us do that.
o bby
In house Mafia where Wheat was scum, I was pretty sure he was town but my intuition gave me jack-all about his alignment. I felt like I couldn't possibly have a good handle on him either way, but I couldn't point out anything scummy.
I know that recently Wheat has not wanted to get caught by Iso as much so he probably changed his play with a few tweaks since then, but I'm having the same feeling now. I don't think I have a good read on Wheat and that makes me nervous. I would say that, as a result, the sooner he dies the better, but I having nothing definitive to back this up other than his really unorthodox posts. I feel they're more town in nature even if he's floppier than a fish, since I think he'd be more careful than that as scum, especially without a nightkill.
And I would also expect that Wheat expects that and therefore flop mercilessly all over the damn place to ensure that he's just a really carefree town, or something. That also scares me.
TL;DR I can't read Wheat this game and I don't like that but I don't think he's scum really. Not right now anyway.
TIL. I haven't really been changing my play so that Iso doesn't think I'm scum; he thinks I'm scum regardless of what I do. My normal M.O. is scummy to him, and when I play outside my normal M.O. he realizes I'm playing differently and therefore he thinks I'm scummy.
if you were a pope, who would you have sainted night 2?
If I weren't me, I'd have Sainted myself and then defended myself relentlessly so that the entire wagon didn't require me being on it to go through and then end in a massive explosion. That said, I am me, so I'd have probably put the points on Jey and pushed that lynch relentlessly on the grounds that the Arch wagon was basically the counterwagon to the Jey wagon, and Arch flipped town, which would have made it easy to push Jey off of that.
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@Jey: Your analysis of my posts consists of "Iso did scummy things here, here, here, here, and here, but all of the townie things he did don't matter because I'm overplaying the 'Iso is scum' card". Care to take the rose-colored glasses off?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Jey: Your analysis of my posts consists of "Iso did scummy things here, here, here, here, and here, but all of the townie things he did don't matter because I'm overplaying the 'Iso is scum' card". Care to take the rose-colored glasses off?
You mean "Here's reasons why I think he's scum, and here's a bunch a null stuff"?
@Wheat: How about instead of just calling me scum for one bad vote, you actually make a case on me. I mean the fact is you had me as town all of day one and a good part of day 2. You then switch your vote for one bad vote. Isn't that basically same thing you are accusing me of doing? Hell let's do a little thinking shall we? What advantage would there have been for me to place a vote on Iso at that point as scum? The game was stalled, and I had absolutely no reason to make such a move. You know I am not a newbie either to bring attention to myself like that as scum, so why would I invite it like that?
The fact is you are trying to ring me up for something I have already defended myself from, and there is no way to defend myself more because there is no case for me to defend myself from. People right now are looking for the easiest possible lynch in order to advance the day as we are approaching deadline, and instead of actually doing work, they are getting really ******* lazy. This is what everyone gets for basically lurking for 5 weeks now.
Today is looking like the lynch is between myself, Iso and Asenion (as of now). If Iso are Asenion are to be lynched, I gladly volunteer to be the hammer. The way I see it, odds are one if not both of them have some sort of saint points on them, and by me hammering them, that also eliminates myself from the suspect pool (And also denies a target to scum should I somehow not be the lynch today.) Do note, I am not completely sold on Asenion being scum here, but I will do whatever I can to not only clear my name, but also eliminate any distraction I will be in coming days.
Should I be the lynch however, I do request Iso is the hammer on me. Since he seems confident to lead a wagon on me, he should GLADLY want to hammer me if he feels I am scum, as no harm will come to him. I will let the town decide the L-1 spot. It also provides a chance to eliminate another scummy looking player from the pool should I have any points on myself.
This wrong with this post that led to me voting Tan:
#1: Addresses us as the Town. You don't identify as part of the Town Tan?
#2 "I'll hammer whoever gets to L-1 even if I don't think they are scum."
#3 Tries to "clear" himself as a potential scumspect.
Tonight I'll post a full case on Tanarin and/or my wagon analysis from Day 1 that I'm working on. Can't promise I'll get both done, but there may be some overlap since they are related.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
@Jey: Your analysis of my posts consists of "Iso did scummy things here, here, here, here, and here, but all of the townie things he did don't matter because I'm overplaying the 'Iso is scum' card". Care to take the rose-colored glasses off?
You mean "Here's reasons why I think he's scum, and here's a bunch a null stuff"?
My point is, you're only calling it null so you can keep calling me scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Wheat: How about instead of just calling me scum for one bad vote, you actually make a case on me. I mean the fact is you had me as town all of day one and a good part of day 2. You then switch your vote for one bad vote. Isn't that basically same thing you are accusing me of doing? Hell let's do a little thinking shall we? What advantage would there have been for me to place a vote on Iso at that point as scum? The game was stalled, and I had absolutely no reason to make such a move. You know I am not a newbie either to bring attention to myself like that as scum, so why would I invite it like that?
The fact is you are trying to ring me up for something I have already defended myself from, and there is no way to defend myself more because there is no case for me to defend myself from. People right now are looking for the easiest possible lynch in order to advance the day as we are approaching deadline, and instead of actually doing work, they are getting really ******* lazy. This is what everyone gets for basically lurking for 5 weeks now.
Expect a case hopefully this weekend, you're screwed now.
No, I'm not doing the same thing I'm accusing you of doing. Not even close.
Why would you *NOT* put a vote on Iso? Everyone else was putting votes on Iso right as you did, and I even set myself up nicely as a fall guy once the lynch went through because I didn't actually have a reasonable case on Iso (I called him scum for "plethora *****ing" for god's sake), and everyone just went with it. It was the cool thing to do at the time, absolutely 0 retribution because obviously there were also townies on the wagon because there's only 2 popes.
@Jey: Your analysis of my posts consists of "Iso did scummy things here, here, here, here, and here, but all of the townie things he did don't matter because I'm overplaying the 'Iso is scum' card". Care to take the rose-colored glasses off?
You mean "Here's reasons why I think he's scum, and here's a bunch a null stuff"?
My point is, you're only calling it null so you can keep calling me scum.
I'm calling it null because it doesn't tell me anything about your alignment. As in, I could easily see you doing that regardless if you were town or scum. Mostly because it felt pretty obvious to me to say things of the like.
@Wheat: How about instead of just calling me scum for one bad vote, you actually make a case on me. I mean the fact is you had me as town all of day one and a good part of day 2. You then switch your vote for one bad vote. Isn't that basically same thing you are accusing me of doing? Hell let's do a little thinking shall we? What advantage would there have been for me to place a vote on Iso at that point as scum? The game was stalled, and I had absolutely no reason to make such a move. You know I am not a newbie either to bring attention to myself like that as scum, so why would I invite it like that?
The fact is you are trying to ring me up for something I have already defended myself from, and there is no way to defend myself more because there is no case for me to defend myself from. People right now are looking for the easiest possible lynch in order to advance the day as we are approaching deadline, and instead of actually doing work, they are getting really ******* lazy. This is what everyone gets for basically lurking for 5 weeks now.
@Wheat: How about instead of just calling me scum for one bad vote, you actually make a case on me. I mean the fact is you had me as town all of day one and a good part of day 2. You then switch your vote for one bad vote. Isn't that basically same thing you are accusing me of doing? Hell let's do a little thinking shall we? What advantage would there have been for me to place a vote on Iso at that point as scum? The game was stalled, and I had absolutely no reason to make such a move. You know I am not a newbie either to bring attention to myself like that as scum, so why would I invite it like that?
The fact is you are trying to ring me up for something I have already defended myself from, and there is no way to defend myself more because there is no case for me to defend myself from. People right now are looking for the easiest possible lynch in order to advance the day as we are approaching deadline, and instead of actually doing work, they are getting really ******* lazy. This is what everyone gets for basically lurking for 5 weeks now.
I'm doing work but no one is listening to me
Maybe because your big post was just one long unseparated that was unpleasant to follow and made my eyes glaze over. Give me some spacing or line separators, put your quotes in actual quote boxes, or something. Throw me a bone.
Either 1/1 split of Shock and Iso or two on Shock. Only reason I would not 2 on Iso is because he is still a hard person to get lynched no matter if he is scum or town, and right now it is still in the scums best interest to be hedging bets on who they put points on.
Iso's only hard to lynch if you convince yourself that he's hard to lynch. Otherwise he's easy.
Today is looking like the lynch is between myself, Iso and Asenion (as of now). If Iso are Asenion are to be lynched, I gladly volunteer to be the hammer. The way I see it, odds are one if not both of them have some sort of saint points on them, and by me hammering them, that also eliminates myself from the suspect pool (And also denies a target to scum should I somehow not be the lynch today.) Do note, I am not completely sold on Asenion being scum here, but I will do whatever I can to not only clear my name, but also eliminate any distraction I will be in coming days.
Should I be the lynch however, I do request Iso is the hammer on me. Since he seems confident to lead a wagon on me, he should GLADLY want to hammer me if he feels I am scum, as no harm will come to him. I will let the town decide the L-1 spot. It also provides a chance to eliminate another scummy looking player from the pool should I have any points on myself.
This wrong with this post that led to me voting Tan:
#1: Addresses us as the Town. You don't identify as part of the Town Tan?
#2 "I'll hammer whoever gets to L-1 even if I don't think they are scum."
#3 Tries to "clear" himself as a potential scumspect.
Tonight I'll post a full case on Tanarin and/or my wagon analysis from Day 1 that I'm working on. Can't promise I'll get both done, but there may be some overlap since they are related.
Good posts take effort, especially when I have to try and get into a mindset of past actions. It's a lot easier to just conversationally call people out on stuff as it happens. I also can't pull up a bunch of notes and read through 200 posts looking for specific actions and mistakes while at work. And my home time is limited right now.
@JeY k: Have you ever heard my theory of Momentum in Mafia? It's not only about what you say and how you say it, WHEN you make your case is as important as all other factors combined. The scummiest thing about the way you moved off Iso's wagon on Day 1 was that you destroyed the momentum building against him and effectively made it impossible to lynch Iso for the rest of that Day. The timing couldn't have been better if your goal was to protect Iso while distancing from him. ToDay you are making a few decent arguments, but you aren't doing it at a time when Iso is pressured or in a way that will draw new pressure to his wagon. I'm onboard with an Iso lynch, but Tan is pulling the momentum right now and is a more obvious scumsuspect. Either figure out how to get more people onto the Iso lynch toDay, or save your good arguments for a time when people are more receptive to them and comment on the Tanarin matter at hand.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Wheat I'm going to grab a large stick made of boobies and beat you with it.
@Asenion: I'm bad at this game so sue me. I'll just do what I want when I want until I otherwise learn how things work. Probably not changing in this game.
@Jey: Your analysis of my posts consists of "Iso did scummy things here, here, here, here, and here, but all of the townie things he did don't matter because I'm overplaying the 'Iso is scum' card". Care to take the rose-colored glasses off?
You mean "Here's reasons why I think he's scum, and here's a bunch a null stuff"?
My point is, you're only calling it null so you can keep calling me scum.
I'm calling it null because it doesn't tell me anything about your alignment. As in, I could easily see you doing that regardless if you were town or scum. Mostly because it felt pretty obvious to me to say things of the like.
Tell me what you think null means, then.
Null means non-indicative of alignment. It doesn't mean "everything Iso does that seems townie isn't townie because I say he's scum".
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Iso But what you said didn't seem towny, Everything that I said was null would be stuff I would say is null regardless. this is not hard to understand. I understand you're trying to convince me of my own opinion but you can't because if I could've seen it different that would've happened the first time.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I can't speak from experience about Inflammable, but you do raise a good point. Of those that answered the question, he was the only one to not even name names. Your theory does make sense though. I mean this game in essence is an evolution of Inflammable, except it is scum buddies as opposed to independent scum. On top of that, I can see a scum!Karn knowing exactly how scum went down in Inflammable (Which he was in,) and trying to bus him without voting him.
Here Tanarin jumps on the the Kami wagon as momentum shifts from Iso. iRebel technically started the wagon, but his reasoning for it felt much stronger. Up until this point, Tanarin had shown no signs of thinking Kami was scum. Indeed, shortly before this he was asking Kami's opinion on whether Karn was scum. Even in this post, his reason for a total 180 on Kami is just barning others.
Even after this post, he continues to attack and argue with Karn saying little to nothing about Kami.
The next vote is Iso unvoting and moving his vote from JeY to Shockwave. This is an interesting move. At this point Iso is trying to pull pressure off himself however possible and it's not clear what the lynch of the day is going to be yet, although there is some mounting pressure on Tanarin.
Immediately after this WG and Karn move their votes to Jey from Iso due to Iso's strong post and Jey's bad post. This again goes along with Jey destroying the momentum on Iso and the players of the game realizing that Iso won't be the lynch of the day and looking for alternate places to push with a looming deadline. Jey seems to realize this shortly afterwards and joins Iso voting for Shockwave. Very interesting that Jey dissolves Iso's wagon and then agrees with Iso on who to lynch. THIS is the buddying I was discussing earlier and is why I am very suspicious of Jey/Iso if either of them flips scum.
Kami next also realizes the Iso wagon is gone and moves his vote to WG after voicing his opinions on the game.
Iso - 1 (JAR)
Wheat_Grinder - 2 (Shockwave, KamikazeArchon)
Sir Karn - 1 (Bolly)
JeY k - 3 (Void, Wheat_Grinder, Sir Karn)
KamikazeArchon - 2 (iRebel, Tanarin)
Shockwave - 2 (Iso, JeY k)
Not Voting: Niv
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FOS Count
Iso - JeY k
Niv - Kamikaze
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You have six and a half days left.
Checking prods now.
The pressure is shifting to Jey now. I think if Kami had voted Jey there, it might have been enough to save him. Especially with the follow up of Bolly moving his vote from Karn to Jey. But he didn't.
Tanarin hops his vote around again, moving to Jey. Again, Tanarin posts no reasons for moving his vote other than "consider me sold on JeYK". He also reiterates that he thinks Kami's posts are terrible, but doesn't explain why.
Jey panicks here and tries to distance from Iso in a last ditch effort abandoning all convictions drudged up previously. This "intuition" gameplay style seems like a good way to change opinions without new evidence.
Also of note here, WG worked harder in this section of the game to post improved content and analysis. This is likely in response to the two votes on him and probably helped prevent him from being the next wagon after JeY's.
Iso - 2 (JAR, JeY k)
Wheat_Grinder - 2 (Shockwave, KamikazeArchon)
JeY k - 5 (Void, Wheat_Grinder, Sir Karn, Bolly, Tanarin)
KamikazeArchon - 1 (iRebel)
Shockwave - 1 (Iso)
Not Voting: Niv
--
I'm giving up on tracking FOSes. That didn't seem to go very far.
You have, I think, 112 hours left.
This is where it gets really interesting. WG comes back into the game after ignoring Jey for a while and declares her to be Town along with Iso. He spends his entire post defending himself and then moves his vote to Kami?!
Karn agrees to lynch Kami "if people are buying the JeY!Town thing". Somewhere in here, there was some nice set-up by scum. The rest of the people were lazy and felt pressured by deadline in my assessment. Between post #150 and post #267 I believe scum set-up the Kami case.
Tanarin now moves his vote to Kami citing "I can agree with Karn" as the reason, proving that he literally doesn't care who gets lynched at this point.
Come on, Tanarin. You guys wasted three weeks. And there are only two mafia to stall, versus ten townies to waste time. This is not unfair.
But fine, you've managed to guilt me. Since this is a new pronouncement, I'll give you an extra day. Deadline is now June 7th at 8pm MST.
---
Vote Count
(7 to lynch)
Iso - 2 (JAR, JeY k)
Wheat_Grinder - 2 (Shockwave, KamikazeArchon)
JeY k - 3 (Void, Sir Karn, Bolly)
KamikazeArchon - 3 (iRebel, Wheat_Grinder, Tanarin)
Shockwave - 1 (Iso)
Not Voting: Niv
Then the votes pile on:
-Niv moves his vote to Kami citing the deadline pressure given the less than three days remaining.
-Bolly moves as well for similar reasons.
-Karn moves his vote to Kami out of apathy and due to approaching deadline.
-Niv reorders himself to the bottom of the list at Kami's request.(Probably null given that we know Kami had no saint points.)
-Niv Unvotes to reorganize again
-JeY puts Kami back to L-1 "despite my disagreement"
-WG unvotes to apply the hammer later
-Niv Revotes
-And finally WG hammers
Looking at this wagon, it's full of people who don't care and didn't really want to lynch Kami but felt forced by the deadline even in the face of better lynches. This was excellent manipulation and perfect timing by the scum.
I found Tanarin's senseless vote-hopping to be completely damning. I also believe that we can identify the root cause of the inception of the Kami wagon with more analysis, but I'm out of time for tonight.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
The root cause likely falls in 150-261 as I stated earlier btw. Additionally, I think you will find a refresher of pressure on Kami around the time that Tanarin voted Kami, although not by Tanarin himself. His scumbuddy likely supplied more of the pressure verbally while Tan jumped on the vote.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
@Jey: Your analysis of my posts consists of "Iso did scummy things here, here, here, here, and here, but all of the townie things he did don't matter because I'm overplaying the 'Iso is scum' card". Care to take the rose-colored glasses off?
You mean "Here's reasons why I think he's scum, and here's a bunch a null stuff"?
My point is, you're only calling it null so you can keep calling me scum.
I'm calling it null because it doesn't tell me anything about your alignment. As in, I could easily see you doing that regardless if you were town or scum. Mostly because it felt pretty obvious to me to say things of the like.
Tell me what you think null means, then.
Null means non-indicative of alignment. It doesn't mean "everything Iso does that seems townie isn't townie because I say he's scum".
I'm happy to be whatever position on the wagon is requested. I prefer Karn as the hammer on the Tan wagon though. Or if we can not reorganize, adding JeY in as the hammer if JeY is interested in the Tan wagon would make me happy.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Jey panicks here and tries to distance from Iso in a last ditch effort abandoning all convictions drudged up previously. This "intuition" gameplay style seems like a good way to change opinions without new evidence.
The hell? Distance from Iso? I never abandoned convictions, did you even read my posts? I just didn't want to lynch Iso as soon as the wagon built because I wanted more time to figure out the other scumspect. The opinion never really changed here; ask Iso himself. This might be a stretch but I think I've repeated myself more in this game than any other.
I'm happy to be whatever position on the wagon is requested. I prefer Karn as the hammer on the Tan wagon though. Or if we can not reorganize, adding JeY in as the hammer if JeY is interested in the Tan wagon would make me happy.
Not letting what happened to Kamikaze happen to Tanarin. You can lynch him without me.
---
Yes please.
The boobies have *****-nipples.
---
Aside, I keep reading the topic title as "Poop mafia" lol.
I only want you on the Tanarin wagon if you think Tanarin is scum. I'm not trying to compel you to vote for a wagon you don't like. How DO you feel about Tanarin though? And what parallels are you trying to draw to Kamikaze?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
I had a strong feeling Kamikaze was town. I have a strong feeling that Tanarin is town.
There is something different. On Kamikaze, I felt like a solid majority of points were just nonsense, but there's a lot of points against Tanarin which don't seem bogus. It's interesting. I'll still happily say that if he flips scum I'll be surprised.
I had a strong feeling Kamikaze was town. I have a strong feeling that Tanarin is town.
There is something different. On Kamikaze, I felt like a solid majority of points were just nonsense, but there's a lot of points against Tanarin which don't seem bogus. It's interesting. I'll still happily say that if he flips scum I'll be surprised.
what about the "non bogus points" still leads you to not find him scum? how can the points be right, but the reads be wrong?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Tanarin spends Day 1 going after Karn and then flips to being in pretty high agreement with him Day 2, no explanation of why.
Calls Karn scum for something he did too, namely that he setting up Kami as scum but not committing.
Complains about lack of activity Day 2 but doesn't take the opportunity to push; rather, he sits around and considers an existing wagon to jump on.
Has a REALLY bad vote on Iso and his responses after he gets called out on it are even worse.
Small points:
Says Karn's wagon will provide info when he's like the only one on it and on the very first page of the game.
Possibly the only one to mention daychat, though I'd appreciate someone checking this for me.
Slimy message to JAR about self-voting and how "it doesn't work the way you think"
I forgot about this. Let's take a look at how it played out though because me and my ten foot pole were making out on the other side of town at the time...
Sensitive much? Dunno if you just admitted being scum, or are just that over-reactionary. Either way, I am comfortable with my vote right here. Much info can be gathered from this wagon.
What info?
What info could you possibly gain by that point other than Karn's alignment?
So you're basically hedging your bets preemptively. "Iso could be scum so I'm voting him but OH HE MIGHT NOT BE". Please explain how this is a townie thing to do. If you don't even believe your case, why are you posting it?
I'm a little angry, honestly. I hate when there's a cool setup and I get run up early because then I inevitably can't take part in the later parts of the game since I will inevitably be lynched on Cyanosis (or just plain Iso paranoia) or in more traditional setups, Nightkilled for my claim. It's incredibly frustrating, and my play overall lately has been very lackluster. Plus, in an open setup, I can't exactly claim something wacky to evade suspicion, so...really, it's just a *****ty situation to be in, town or scum. At this point, I'm demotivated and I don't see that changing unless the momentum shifts elsewhere.
It's not like me to be defeatist, but I hope some of you can understand where I'm coming from, since this almost always invariably happens to me.
Do what you will. Maybe I'll come back in a day and re-read and re-examine what we've seen to give last reads. Or whatever.
Ciao for now.
This... does not read like Iso at all. As others have said, this comes off as scummy, but at the same time this reads as a major setup by someone.
I mean let's think about it. Iso has a point, him just BEING in a game brings about a major case of paranoia from everyone. This is something pretty much everyone would know going into this and would very likely be used against him by scum in order to force an early 2-3 deaths. I really think Kami is piling on here with his "research". It feels like he literally just did a scan of the death lists it appears and declared his claim is an outright lie.
At first I quoted this because I was going to include it as a counterpoint to keep my analysis from hitting a rut; I consider the first part to be more townie than scummy.
But I don't know what to make of that second part, no matter how much I think about it. (This post comes up later; keep it in mind. I do actually figure out what to make of it)
@Karn: OK... so you jump on me for voting you when it is the 2nd post in the game. How did you know I was not making an RVS post? As I said in my next post, you were really sensitive to my vote. Also, you then go and basically ignore Kami's question to you. Why are you afraid to answer a legitimate question addressed to you? Also, why imply that a scum!me would talk in thread to a scum!kami? Last I checked, the scum have a quicktime they can use at any time, thus would have no need to even post something like what you accuse of being scum talking to scum in thread.
You later admitted it was NOT an RVS post. And Karn knew it wasn't an RVS post. In fact, no one thought it was an RVS post, because it was not worded as an RVS post. So why did you ask this question?
Also Barn Kami #93. You seem to be really setting up a Kami lynch, but yet don't want to commit to it. Possible scumbuddy much?
Remember the quote where I didn't know what to make of the second part? I know what to make of it now; you hint strongly that Kami is scum but don't commit, then accuse someone else (Karn, I think) of doing the same thing here.
Kamikaze wants to make sure nobody town clears anyone so that everyone is a potential lynch. Sounds great.
@Tanarin: what do I have left unanswered now?
For one my post #98 has a few questions left unanswered.
@Kami: You make some good points. I mean yeah there is always the risk that we accidentally clear scum, but certainly that does not exclude going back and looking at our town pile late game if something goes awry. Also, I dunno if I quite agree with the whole lowering of pressure thing. Mainly because scum is going to have less places to hide, and more importantly, less places to put saint points. Since saint points is the method they need to use to kill, eliminating targets does make their life harder.
I disagree with the logic here. That actually helps the scum, because it gives a larger chance of the kill actually exploding. But this logic is also something that looks correct on the surface which helps you.
This point is a bit tinfoil-y but I still feel like mentioning it anyway.
Just like you were not convinced about Kami yesterday, I am not convinced about Iso today (Nor was I yesterday.) Mind rehashing your case on him to myself and others?
I need to look over the wagon, but I am thinking that there is a chance scum was not on the wagon at all yesterday.
Also, any word from shockwave at all? I mean the fact that he has not posted since the 29th nor has he contributed at all is concerning.
Considering an Iso vote, but nothing on Karn. In fact, now he's thinking that there were no scum on the wagon at all, but it included Karn, I thought?
OK guys, I get the shockwave votes, but don't people think it is a bit too... easy right now? I mean just his lack of posting/commitment alone is not a reason for him to be scum (Quick look has him at 3 replacements in the last few months.) Also, this is shockwave who we are talking about, a player with a well documented case of foot in mouth syndrome (Drury Lane being one huge instance of it. And Pleasantville is a scum example of it.)
I guess my point is, let's either wait for him to come back or wait for his replacement to come in and say something before going lynch crazy on him.
@JeY: Meta alone is not gonna sell me on his lynch. Been burned way too much by meta on him to even go there. Show me how he has been scummy in this game, and we will talk.
@Bolly: You go after shockwave for his FoS post, yet you seem to give a pass to JAR for blatantly doing the exact same thing you and Iso are accusing shockwave of doing. Any particular reason why?
Talking about another popular wagon but still nothing about Karn.
A) Ahh OK, I figured this was the reason, but wanted to make sure. I was actually scratching my head on the fact he had no real conviction as to who to vote or at least pressure for today. At last check, he said his top suspects were Kami (Lynched), Soock (being replaced) and JAR. On top of that he had Shock and Jar tied in his likely suspects. He also had JAR as his first sumsuspect way back in post #82, so one would figure he would want to go after him today, if only for pressure.
@iRebel: Can you please provide us a T/S list with reasoning. I really want to know where you stand as the majority of your content posts were strictly focused on Kami and/or JAR
B) Alright. Again, I am hesitant to go to meta here due to past experience, but at the same time, you are very correct that him showing any doubt during the game is odd at best. I think if anything though, an Iso wagon/lynch will flush out scum way better than just sitting here and wasting another week.
Vote Iso
L-2 warning
@Karn: I concur on the posting more, and the townhunting. At this point we need to do something, ANYTHING, to get activity up. Our lack of posting as a whole is providing scum with a perfect place to hide.
That last line doesn't indicate at all that you think Karn is scum anymore.
How did you go from 100% gunning for Karn's lynch to this? There's nothing to indicate why.
Anyway, Iso, full disclosure. I can't read you too well, and you know that. I CAN read others though based on their reaction. My vote seems more than appropriate given the circumstances.
Also, how is my line to karn "fakely"? I have been one of the biggest complainers about the activity level of this game. This has all the feel of Xymande all over again with the town. And given the deadline (Which BTW we have already burned 5 days barring any extensions from the mod,) we need to pick it up.
"Ehh opinions change" is a *****ty response as I mentioned earlier.
"I can't read you to well" is sneaky and scummy. "The vote seems more than appropriate given the circumstances"? Please explain the circumstances.
Your line to Karn was fake because you were tossing knives at Karn all Day 1.
Meh... don't care if people hate my vote and think it is crappy (And yes I realize it was crappy.) Fact of the matter is we were all sitting around twiddling our thumbs. If my wagon results in people getting off their asses, so be it.
@karn: Why not vote me if you think I am scum? Not like there are a lot of votes on me ATM.
@Asenion: I just answered this question for Karn, but to repeat:
@karn: Current Gun to the head reads are currently Iso and iRebel.
Also as for recent examples of shock going out as town: Winterfell, DuesEx it seems as well.
If you realize it was crappy why would you make it?
Don't give me any of that "because the game is stalling" bull*****. You spent the start of Day 2 looking to piggyback of other reads instead of taking the opportunity to push through a case on someone you thought was scum.
@Bolly: Since when is changing your viewpoint scummy? (Hint: It isn't.) This is the same type of crap that Iso got me lynched for last game we played (Pleasantville.) In that game I had Iso as town the majority of the game, but when he was essentially CCed by another player, I immediately voted him. Guess what happened? I got run up because I changed my mind and voted him. That is what is happening now. I moved Iso from a town to scum read and now I am getting ran up for it.
If you knew that's what would happen why would you make such a vote as either alignment??
And Shockwave shouldn't be near the top of anyone's scumlists. How did everyone just forget Iso's implosion under pressure Yesterday or his multiple out of character posts? When Iso posts strangely, it means he is gambiting and I've never seen an Iso gambit end well for the Town. Tanarin is more of a string of small things than any easy to point to incidents, so casing him will take me more effort than I can give at this moment. But I think Tanarin has a lot more evidence against him than Shockwave for just lurking and sounding dumb a couple times.
OK I think Karn basically summed up what I was just thinking, but here are a few more of my thoughts:
What makes you think that people have forgotten about Day 1? I mean last I checked he has had a wagon to L-2 not once... but TWICE this game. That clearly shows that people have not forgotten about Iso or what happened yesterday. You also imply that all Iso gambits are scum gambits, of which we know is clearly NOT the case.
Not going to speak too much about myself as I already said my piece. I will say though that you really need to follow your own advice and show your work as opposed to getting lazy.
I also agree that there is likely more evidence for a case against me than shock, but then again that isn't too hard considering I have posted way more than shock has. That is like saying it rains more in Seattle than in Death Valley. Does not mean what has or has not been said by shock is or is not scummy. To say otherwise is discrediting another huge wagon we have had.
I had a strong feeling Kamikaze was town. I have a strong feeling that Tanarin is town.
There is something different. On Kamikaze, I felt like a solid majority of points were just nonsense, but there's a lot of points against Tanarin which don't seem bogus. It's interesting. I'll still happily say that if he flips scum I'll be surprised.
what about the "non bogus points" still leads you to not find him scum? how can the points be right, but the reads be wrong?
Is it not possible for a town player be scummy? Is it not possible for a scum player to be towny?
Moral of the story, I can't declare someone as scum until I feel comfortable doing so. If I were to go "yeah these points are legit Tanarin is probably scu--" I wouldn't feel comfortable. I'm not committed. I have not been fully convinced. Why would I state an opinion I'm not comfortable with having? I would be lying if I wanted to say "I think Tanarin is scum based now".
The mindset I felt behind the question, and to go back through and re-read some things for stuff I might've missed because I've been rushing a lot recently.
---
Because I wrote this before I read Wheat's post, I have no clue why he would be wrong, but I still feel uneasy moving my vote. I'm starting to budge though. I don't know.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
"Silly rvs attack on Wheat. He also doesn't bother commenting on any players rvsing after this."
How is that an attack? Why would I comment on players RVSing after that if I already made my point about it?
"If Iso had suspicions on Wheat disengaging from conflict why the early townread? Seems a little disengenuous."
Where is it indicated anywhere at all that I had suspicions about anything? I asked a question, that doesn't mean "HERF DERF UR SKUM".
"33 - Mostly pointless questions, very little actually followed up once he has to go on defence. Yet in the next post he accuses Wheat of question dodging."
Yes...he didn't answer the questions. There was nothing to follow up on that I didn't follow up on if I was satisfied with the answers I got. There is absolutely no similarity between not answering questions and not pushing for more answerrs when there's nothing to push for. What the hell does that even mean?
"Desperately trying to seem unconcerned by Jey's pressure which doesn't seem overly scummy til we get to 47, where he votes Jey but just dismissing the meta argument - not actually addressing any of the games Jey cited - but simply by showing a similar post from Iso's inflamable mafia (cause apparently in open games the only relevent meta is other open games)."
There was nothing desperate about it - Jey's pushes absolutely do not concern me, for reasons I've stated before. Also...WHAT games that Jey cited? Jey only cited Katawa Shoujo, and I posted a clear and concise rebuttal to her point. Also...this point makes absolutely no sense, since Jey was referencing KATAWA SHOUJO, a NON-OPEN GAME, to make her point, and yet you clearly state sarcastically here that I'm only using open games as reference for meta? All I did was show why something I did in Katawa Shoujo, as scum, isn't something I only do as scum, as evidenced in Iso's Inflammable. Why are you twisting words?
"There's something off about a gambit where the player doesn't really expect many people to fall for it but they do it anyway (and this reads to me like he really wanted to just do something town!Iso did in the last open setup). I mean really when does town actively try to play to their town meta. :weird:"
The only somewhat valid point of this is the last sentence, and even that's reaching, given that I clearly stated I was going for a similar STRATEGY, not a similar PLAYSTYLE. Also, you're blatantly lying here, saying that I didn't expect many people to fall for it - I stated that I didn't expect anyone who had played in Inflammable to fall for it. From what I recall, that left about half the playerbase as fair game. That's hardly an insignificant amount, as far as reaction baiting goes.
"Also bad vote is bad."
nah
"Basically says its scummy for players to push on scum without absolute certainty."
More twisting. I said that it's scummy to give yourself the chance to backpedal out without committing to the read - you never have to be absolutely certain someone is scum to lynch them, you just have to push them like you believe it because if you don't, then that speaks volumes of your alignment - as I stated in the post you quoted, here.
"And I don't buy this defeatism as real for a second."
Tell me why.
"Spoiler alert: He doesn't do this. His next post is just a long rundown of his recent mafia history to try and quell the wagon."
No, it was me dispelling the notion that I don't get run up early often - because I do - and people were telling me I was lying about that. Your case so far has had absolutely no basis in reality and I question, if you're town, how you can genuinely believe any of the garbage you're spewing right now.
"Iso's big post is kinda long and kinda meh. He's goes a fair amount of stuff I already pointed out, but some of his rehashing "Jey's explanation for voting me is terribad. No wonder I was voting her." seems fake. Many of his questions also seem pot-stirring; "Hey iRebel, since you think JAR and Arch are scumbuddies, do you see any interactive tells between the two that might be worth pursuing?", "@Wheat: why do you like Arch for scum?","@Tan: Who do you suspect aside from Karn right now? Who do you think is most likely to be scum on the Iso wagon at its peak?" rather than genuine scumhunting. But really I get the gist that this is a big post looking to say "hey, I'm here doing *****, let's lynch someone who isn't"."
"a fair amount of stuff I already pointed out" um dude you hadn't pointed anything in the game out UNTIL THIS POST I AM DECONSTRUCTING. Your content has been sparse and unimpressive throughout the ENTIRE GAME. You say my statement RE: Jey seems fake, but the point of this post was to re-establish my view of the game and see if I missed anything, so you'll have to forgive me if I find your assessment of it uncompelling. Many of my questions seem pot-stirring? What does that even mean? Of course I want to stir the pot, I saw things that I wanted to reconcile in my mind and establish connections with. How is that not genuine scumhunting? How is any of that indicative of scum at all?
TL;DR: We should probably lynch JAR at some point, too.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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Vote Tanarin
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
Iso case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zAMJXZnJoY
Day 1: Nothing new here. Just bad vibes. I see a carbon copy of Katawa Shoujo Iso.
-"Your argument is weak and fails to take into consideration the circumstances present in each game you reference. I can't see the town motivation in this fabricated push - especially not on such faulty premises."
I don't like this all of a sudden, for a lot of reasons. My original case was strictly intuition; and apparently that wasn't the premise of my argument anymore, just what I thought was a good comaprison but actually wasn't.
-this is a fine post but doesn't do anything for my alignment on him. He's under a lot of pressure, do all the towny things?
-In fact, in a lot of his posts, there's nothing definitively scummy, but that's what made me so sure of my read in Katawa Shoujo. It just seemed too crafted to be town-oriented. Key word crafted. I have no definitive proof, it's just my feeling from reading the posts.
-@talking about Tanarin, "And which do you think is more likely for the latter?" I still hate this quite a lot. Manipulative in all forms. I still never called them scummy, implicitly or otherwise, so it's really a non-issue. Just you trying to prod in on the issue where you don't belong. you're trying to turn me on Tanarin who I believe to be town and would make another *****ty case if you managed to convince me otherwise and get run up again and maybe even lynched. You'd just love that.
Day 2: A lot of other player's really bad playing makes it look easy for Iso to get instant believability. I don't think Iso's contributing anything besides calling people out on what they should've naturally been called out for anyway, not really adding anything new. Perfect to make it look like you're doing something without actually doing it. If you're actually town Iso, Please, eliminate these clowns with your saint points, I know deep down in my heart that you're going to have them if you're somehow not scum.
-I like the votes on Shockwave. If he's your buddy, this is a great gambit. You'd be able to ride that lynch until endgame and no one would have a clue. Well, until I put you on my hammer and take your ass down with me. This is speculative, I'm assuming I would be sainted. I wouldn't doubt that at this point, my play is awful.
-"The fact of the matter is that asking you, "And which do you think is more likely?" was a genuine question, and the fact that you got buttmad about it struck me as scum resentment for heading your poor attack on Tanarin at the pass."
Yeah no. No times a thousand.
-Lol @ Wheat's push. I don't think I like Wheat this game. I can't call him scum because -- actually. I'll address this later.
-"You're trying to worm your way out of this because you just need an excuse to vote me since I've crumbled each and every reason you've given to do so."
Nope because I didn't call him scummy lol. I hope you've gotten over this because I haven't gosh is annoys the crap out of me.
-Iso is totally right about Karn/Tanarin/JAR votes, but in all honesty, that's not hard to deduce. Iso's lack of a face makes this impossible to tell if genuine or fabricated as a reaction. Totally null.
-"JAR and Karn are scummy, but the lack of reasoning makes it harder to call them out for their play, here."
I actually agree.
-"I don't expect you to be honest if you're scum."
Good thing I'm not scum! Too bad you are!
-"I'll happily hammer Tanarin or Asenion, whichever we lynch."
I never once liked any proclamations of willingness to hammer for some reason. I know I've done it once (I'm pretty sure) but I can't remember why because I remember hating them so much. this doesn't make you town or scum though. I think the willingness to hammer is too easy of a shot here.
-Iso still attacking Shockwave's slot, now asenion: rightfully so. I'd be doing the same.
---
JAR's turn! You'd get a youtube video of a cool song to hear while reading too if yours wasn't so dang easy.
You've hardly done anything but spread the hate, dawdle, and cause people to react without analysing any of those reactions. I don't think you can be lynched soon enough but unfortunately only can do one of those a day.
---
Asension:
"Who has been scummy? And who should I focus on while reading?"
I don't think I'd ever say this as town? The other questions, sure perhaps, but no.
"EBWODP: And the other reason we shouldn't rearrange wagons is because Wagon Analysis is one of the best tools we have to catch scum this game. Especially if saints flip later, we can go back and look at who cared about their position on the wagon. I don't want artificially constructed wagons disrupting the natural flow that could catch scum."
So you're saying we shouldn't be careful about hammer/L-1 so we can possibly save other townies/nail scum? I'd willing to bet on the discussion concerning lynch positions alone is enough to draw out scum. They would try their hardest not to hammer a sainted towny imho. I don't like your shaking off the mentality that choosing hammers/L-1 being conducive. Wagon analysis is great normally but these aren't ordinary wagons.
"Shoot, just realized who Jey is. Jey always buddies Iso regardless of alignment. There might be nothing there."
I'm buddying Iso? Excuse me?
"This game is special too, because I don't see any reason to lie about anything. Scum have no power here. There are no PRs to manipulate or hide. This is a purely cooperation game where we have to find the scum before it's too late. (3 mislynches if things go badly, 4 mislynches under normal circumstances, 5 mislynches if the scum misplay)"
This feels fake to me. Completely. Or forced. Whatever term you prefer.
"What do you find fake about me? What is driving you up the wall?"
See above ^
"Here are my opinions:
Willing to bet the game on these 3 being town: Void, Niv, Bolly
FOS: Tanarin, Sir Karn
Hammer: Karn
L-1: Jey, Tanarin, or choice of Iso
Will lynch toDay: Iso, Tanarin
Vote Iso"
You talk about not wanting to arrange wagons and then state who you want to be at the end of wagons? Lol.
"I am really disappointed at the activity level in this thread right now. People should be asking me questions about my reads. Or commenting on the fact that I just put Iso back at L-2."
Fluff in the purest form, especially for how soon this was posted.
-dinner break-
"This is awkward. I guess most of you guys post while I'm sleeping. I can do some posting during the day at work, but mostly 6-10EST is my available time. That's why it annoys me that I made a post on my lunch break and it didn't get any responses by the time I was home for me to respond to."
You didn't realize this topic has been moving pretty slow? Give it at least a day.
"Suspicious is probably the perfect word here. I don't directly think he's scum and it would take convincing to get me to vote for him, but I want him to put his money where his mouth is and hammer any wagons he votes for. In hindsight, I don't actually want him to be forced to hammer a wagon he wouldn't vote on his own. Or in other words, Karn has been a loudmouth this game and I want him to put up or shut up. Scum have the best reasons ever to be leaders in this set-up."
Another mention of tailoring a wagon despite earlier opinion.
"@Niv: Re: Shockwave: I think Shockwave was monumentally unimpressive Day 1 and said a couple of stupid things. I would probably have him leaning scum and needing more interaction if I replaced in as someone else right now. I would also mark him as lynch bait for the next time I needed to pull pressure off a lynch that I didn't want to happen."
What even is this?
"And Shockwave shouldn't be near the top of anyone's scumlists."
Spoilers, he was, and you're not fairing any better. The rest of this post is needless whining.
"Are you claiming that you ARE scumbuddies with JeY? Because I don't understand your argument right now."
I lol'd
"Re: all ISO gambits are scum gambits
There's very little reason for Town gambits in this open set-up."
Wasn't Iso town-gambitting in Majora's Mask? I'm pretty sure he was, for the short time he was alive. not that I'm defending him, but this is about you, not him, at the moment., I've already cased Iso a bazillion times but I'm never going to see his damn lynch because no one takes me seriously. -being dramatic- (looking at you, Wheat).
"The gambit in question is Iso setting himself up to fail in a way that JeY would notice, defeating the arguments, playing stupid, and then being emotionally manipulative to "clear" himself based on "bad play lately". This sequence of events has a very Iso flavor to them. Town don't need to try so hard to look stupid early this game because the Scum can't kill us and there are no hidden roles to affect behavior. Between those two aspects I can't imagine why Town need to run gambits."
Iso isn't setting himself up, he just lost against my intuition again. Plus he's been weary of his Mafia'ing as of recently. I dont like this post, even if I don't like Iso.
---
Now, for the newer stuff: (Oh my, there's even been posts while I was writing this thing!)
-"Why is there an Asenion/Iso dichotomy in your mind?"
Almost missed this! And bad phrasing on my part, I think it's more likely that JAR and one of you are scum, but the fact that you even bring this up makes this interesting. I definitely believe the two of you could be scum together and whoever doesn't get lynched rides until endgame (like I said before), just less likely.
@Tanarin: I believe you're town, I'd rather not have you die to prove it. I also don't believe you're sainted so there's nothing to gain from lynching you either. But otherwise that's a fine post.
@Niv: Double sainted Shockwave.
---
Anything I missed? Just let me know, I rushed to get this post done because it's already 7:42pm and I have other stuff to take care of. Like shaving. God damn I need to shave. 7:42 might not seem late but as someone who goes to bed around 10 to get up for their full time job well, it's late :V.
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Either 1/1 split of Shock and Iso or two on Shock. Only reason I would not 2 on Iso is because he is still a hard person to get lynched no matter if he is scum or town, and right now it is still in the scums best interest to be hedging bets on who they put points on.
As for why I would at least consider only one on shock, while shockwave was indeed the hot speculation for an easy lynch coming into day 2, smart scum would have realized someone would at least try to stop the wagon to give the spot a chance to prove itself. And if the replacement played better than shock (Not hard to do I know,) Double points may become wasted yet again.
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In house Mafia where Wheat was scum, I was pretty sure he was town but my intuition gave me jack-all about his alignment. I felt like I couldn't possibly have a good handle on him either way, but I couldn't point out anything scummy.
I know that recently Wheat has not wanted to get caught by Iso as much so he probably changed his play with a few tweaks since then, but I'm having the same feeling now. I don't think I have a good read on Wheat and that makes me nervous. I would say that, as a result, the sooner he dies the better, but I having nothing definitive to back this up other than his really unorthodox posts. I feel they're more town in nature even if he's floppier than a fish, since I think he'd be more careful than that as scum, especially without a nightkill.
And I would also expect that Wheat expects that and therefore flop mercilessly all over the damn place to ensure that he's just a really carefree town, or something. That also scares me.
TL;DR I can't read Wheat this game and I don't like that but I don't think he's scum really. Not right now anyway.
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My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
while you're here, want to answer the question I asked everyone? if you were a pope, who would you have sainted night 2? and I guess since you replaced in, who would you have sainted as a pope in the pregame night one?
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
If I weren't me, I'd have Sainted myself and then defended myself relentlessly so that the entire wagon didn't require me being on it to go through and then end in a massive explosion. That said, I am me, so I'd have probably put the points on Jey and pushed that lynch relentlessly on the grounds that the Arch wagon was basically the counterwagon to the Jey wagon, and Arch flipped town, which would have made it easy to push Jey off of that.
-
@Jey: Your analysis of my posts consists of "Iso did scummy things here, here, here, here, and here, but all of the townie things he did don't matter because I'm overplaying the 'Iso is scum' card". Care to take the rose-colored glasses off?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I just like to rub it in because it was later proved to be a false tell; Iso got lucky on a coincidence. That's why I said OOG.
This is a very pope thing to say. You know if the person is unsainted, so know if you are safe.
o bby
TIL. I haven't really been changing my play so that Iso doesn't think I'm scum; he thinks I'm scum regardless of what I do. My normal M.O. is scummy to him, and when I play outside my normal M.O. he realizes I'm playing differently and therefore he thinks I'm scummy.
We have a mutual inability to read each other.
Scum can't saint themselves.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I missed this too and was about to make the same comment Wheat did.
You mean "Here's reasons why I think he's scum, and here's a bunch a null stuff"?
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The fact is you are trying to ring me up for something I have already defended myself from, and there is no way to defend myself more because there is no case for me to defend myself from. People right now are looking for the easiest possible lynch in order to advance the day as we are approaching deadline, and instead of actually doing work, they are getting really ******* lazy. This is what everyone gets for basically lurking for 5 weeks now.
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This wrong with this post that led to me voting Tan:
#1: Addresses us as the Town. You don't identify as part of the Town Tan?
#2 "I'll hammer whoever gets to L-1 even if I don't think they are scum."
#3 Tries to "clear" himself as a potential scumspect.
Tonight I'll post a full case on Tanarin and/or my wagon analysis from Day 1 that I'm working on. Can't promise I'll get both done, but there may be some overlap since they are related.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
My point is, you're only calling it null so you can keep calling me scum.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I totally misread that post.
I was too much in a rush for the train and not wanting to have to go back and refind what I wanted to quote.
Expect a case hopefully this weekend, you're screwed now.
No, I'm not doing the same thing I'm accusing you of doing. Not even close.
Why would you *NOT* put a vote on Iso? Everyone else was putting votes on Iso right as you did, and I even set myself up nicely as a fall guy once the lynch went through because I didn't actually have a reasonable case on Iso (I called him scum for "plethora *****ing" for god's sake), and everyone just went with it. It was the cool thing to do at the time, absolutely 0 retribution because obviously there were also townies on the wagon because there's only 2 popes.
I'm calling it null because it doesn't tell me anything about your alignment. As in, I could easily see you doing that regardless if you were town or scum. Mostly because it felt pretty obvious to me to say things of the like.
Tell me what you think null means, then.
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I'm doing work but no one is listening to me
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Maybe because your big post was just one long unseparated that was unpleasant to follow and made my eyes glaze over. Give me some spacing or line separators, put your quotes in actual quote boxes, or something. Throw me a bone.
Iso's only hard to lynch if you convince yourself that he's hard to lynch. Otherwise he's easy.
Philosophy in this *****.
Post more like this and you'll be town.
nah brah
@JeY k: Have you ever heard my theory of Momentum in Mafia? It's not only about what you say and how you say it, WHEN you make your case is as important as all other factors combined. The scummiest thing about the way you moved off Iso's wagon on Day 1 was that you destroyed the momentum building against him and effectively made it impossible to lynch Iso for the rest of that Day. The timing couldn't have been better if your goal was to protect Iso while distancing from him. ToDay you are making a few decent arguments, but you aren't doing it at a time when Iso is pressured or in a way that will draw new pressure to his wagon. I'm onboard with an Iso lynch, but Tan is pulling the momentum right now and is a more obvious scumsuspect. Either figure out how to get more people onto the Iso lynch toDay, or save your good arguments for a time when people are more receptive to them and comment on the Tanarin matter at hand.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
gnaw a bra then
Wheat I'm going to grab a large stick made of boobies and beat you with it.
@Asenion: I'm bad at this game so sue me. I'll just do what I want when I want until I otherwise learn how things work. Probably not changing in this game.
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Null means non-indicative of alignment. It doesn't mean "everything Iso does that seems townie isn't townie because I say he's scum".
Only if you smile at me the right way as you bend over to pick up your keys.
naw brah
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Mod: iRebel's vote on JAR never showed up on Day 1. Was this a mod error? I'm trying to analyse the wagon and it's relevant to me.
Here Tanarin jumps on the the Kami wagon as momentum shifts from Iso. iRebel technically started the wagon, but his reasoning for it felt much stronger. Up until this point, Tanarin had shown no signs of thinking Kami was scum. Indeed, shortly before this he was asking Kami's opinion on whether Karn was scum. Even in this post, his reason for a total 180 on Kami is just barning others.
Even after this post, he continues to attack and argue with Karn saying little to nothing about Kami.
The next vote is Iso unvoting and moving his vote from JeY to Shockwave. This is an interesting move. At this point Iso is trying to pull pressure off himself however possible and it's not clear what the lynch of the day is going to be yet, although there is some mounting pressure on Tanarin.
Immediately after this WG and Karn move their votes to Jey from Iso due to Iso's strong post and Jey's bad post. This again goes along with Jey destroying the momentum on Iso and the players of the game realizing that Iso won't be the lynch of the day and looking for alternate places to push with a looming deadline. Jey seems to realize this shortly afterwards and joins Iso voting for Shockwave. Very interesting that Jey dissolves Iso's wagon and then agrees with Iso on who to lynch. THIS is the buddying I was discussing earlier and is why I am very suspicious of Jey/Iso if either of them flips scum.
Kami next also realizes the Iso wagon is gone and moves his vote to WG after voicing his opinions on the game.
Next Vote count:
The pressure is shifting to Jey now. I think if Kami had voted Jey there, it might have been enough to save him. Especially with the follow up of Bolly moving his vote from Karn to Jey. But he didn't.
Tanarin hops his vote around again, moving to Jey. Again, Tanarin posts no reasons for moving his vote other than "consider me sold on JeYK". He also reiterates that he thinks Kami's posts are terrible, but doesn't explain why.
Jey panicks here and tries to distance from Iso in a last ditch effort abandoning all convictions drudged up previously. This "intuition" gameplay style seems like a good way to change opinions without new evidence.
Also of note here, WG worked harder in this section of the game to post improved content and analysis. This is likely in response to the two votes on him and probably helped prevent him from being the next wagon after JeY's.
This is where it gets really interesting. WG comes back into the game after ignoring Jey for a while and declares her to be Town along with Iso. He spends his entire post defending himself and then moves his vote to Kami?!
Karn agrees to lynch Kami "if people are buying the JeY!Town thing". Somewhere in here, there was some nice set-up by scum. The rest of the people were lazy and felt pressured by deadline in my assessment. Between post #150 and post #267 I believe scum set-up the Kami case.
Tanarin now moves his vote to Kami citing "I can agree with Karn" as the reason, proving that he literally doesn't care who gets lynched at this point.
Then the votes pile on:
-Niv moves his vote to Kami citing the deadline pressure given the less than three days remaining.
-Bolly moves as well for similar reasons.
-Karn moves his vote to Kami out of apathy and due to approaching deadline.
-Niv reorders himself to the bottom of the list at Kami's request.(Probably null given that we know Kami had no saint points.)
-Niv Unvotes to reorganize again
-JeY puts Kami back to L-1 "despite my disagreement"
-WG unvotes to apply the hammer later
-Niv Revotes
-And finally WG hammers
Looking at this wagon, it's full of people who don't care and didn't really want to lynch Kami but felt forced by the deadline even in the face of better lynches. This was excellent manipulation and perfect timing by the scum.
I found Tanarin's senseless vote-hopping to be completely damning. I also believe that we can identify the root cause of the inception of the Kami wagon with more analysis, but I'm out of time for tonight.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
Yes please.
You betrayed me.
You are not my sister.
Well back to Futa Suiwa Time
Vote: Tanarin
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Because everything was directed at you? You were responding to attacks iirc
Okay now THIS is town. It also makes me think.
---
The hell? Distance from Iso? I never abandoned convictions, did you even read my posts? I just didn't want to lynch Iso as soon as the wagon built because I wanted more time to figure out the other scumspect. The opinion never really changed here; ask Iso himself. This might be a stretch but I think I've repeated myself more in this game than any other.
Not letting what happened to Kamikaze happen to Tanarin. You can lynch him without me.
---
The boobies have *****-nipples.
---
Aside, I keep reading the topic title as "Poop mafia" lol.
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There is something different. On Kamikaze, I felt like a solid majority of points were just nonsense, but there's a lot of points against Tanarin which don't seem bogus. It's interesting. I'll still happily say that if he flips scum I'll be surprised.
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The next stage in futa evolution
The dick-breast bush
Warning for spam. -TK
You are literally just spamming the thread right now.
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Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Yes but I am planning to make a case on Tanarin.
I'll make it up to you bro.
How so, and what about?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Big points:
Tanarin spends Day 1 going after Karn and then flips to being in pretty high agreement with him Day 2, no explanation of why.
Calls Karn scum for something he did too, namely that he setting up Kami as scum but not committing.
Complains about lack of activity Day 2 but doesn't take the opportunity to push; rather, he sits around and considers an existing wagon to jump on.
Has a REALLY bad vote on Iso and his responses after he gets called out on it are even worse.
Small points:
Says Karn's wagon will provide info when he's like the only one on it and on the very first page of the game.
Possibly the only one to mention daychat, though I'd appreciate someone checking this for me.
Slimy message to JAR about self-voting and how "it doesn't work the way you think"
I forgot about this. Let's take a look at how it played out though because me and my ten foot pole were making out on the other side of town at the time...
What info?
What info could you possibly gain by that point other than Karn's alignment?
At first I quoted this because I was going to include it as a counterpoint to keep my analysis from hitting a rut; I consider the first part to be more townie than scummy.
But I don't know what to make of that second part, no matter how much I think about it. (This post comes up later; keep it in mind. I do actually figure out what to make of it)
You later admitted it was NOT an RVS post. And Karn knew it wasn't an RVS post. In fact, no one thought it was an RVS post, because it was not worded as an RVS post. So why did you ask this question?
Remember the quote where I didn't know what to make of the second part? I know what to make of it now; you hint strongly that Kami is scum but don't commit, then accuse someone else (Karn, I think) of doing the same thing here.
This post feels really slimy.
I disagree with the logic here. That actually helps the scum, because it gives a larger chance of the kill actually exploding. But this logic is also something that looks correct on the surface which helps you.
This point is a bit tinfoil-y but I still feel like mentioning it anyway.
This was in regards to Karn not knowing there was a daychat.
I don't read the rules of opening posts usually either and therefore I did not know there was a daychat.
In fact I feel like you're the only one who pointed out there was a daychat. SOMEONE PLEASE CHECK THIS
---
A bunch of posts whining about the deadline and a couple whining about Karn...
---
Dawn of Day 2! Let's see if Tanarin still hates Karn
Considering an Iso vote, but nothing on Karn. In fact, now he's thinking that there were no scum on the wagon at all, but it included Karn, I thought?
Talking about another popular wagon but still nothing about Karn.
That last line doesn't indicate at all that you think Karn is scum anymore.
How did you go from 100% gunning for Karn's lynch to this? There's nothing to indicate why.
"Ehh opinions change" is a *****ty response as I mentioned earlier.
"I can't read you to well" is sneaky and scummy. "The vote seems more than appropriate given the circumstances"? Please explain the circumstances.
Your line to Karn was fake because you were tossing knives at Karn all Day 1.
If you realize it was crappy why would you make it?
Don't give me any of that "because the game is stalling" bull*****. You spent the start of Day 2 looking to piggyback of other reads instead of taking the opportunity to push through a case on someone you thought was scum.
If you knew that's what would happen why would you make such a vote as either alignment??
And now you're fully agreeing with Karn.
Is it not possible for a town player be scummy? Is it not possible for a scum player to be towny?
Moral of the story, I can't declare someone as scum until I feel comfortable doing so. If I were to go "yeah these points are legit Tanarin is probably scu--" I wouldn't feel comfortable. I'm not committed. I have not been fully convinced. Why would I state an opinion I'm not comfortable with having? I would be lying if I wanted to say "I think Tanarin is scum based now".
The mindset I felt behind the question, and to go back through and re-read some things for stuff I might've missed because I've been rushing a lot recently.
---
Because I wrote this before I read Wheat's post, I have no clue why he would be wrong, but I still feel uneasy moving my vote. I'm starting to budge though. I don't know.
Oh yeah and 'cool starry bra'
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
How is that an attack? Why would I comment on players RVSing after that if I already made my point about it?
"If Iso had suspicions on Wheat disengaging from conflict why the early townread? Seems a little disengenuous."
Where is it indicated anywhere at all that I had suspicions about anything? I asked a question, that doesn't mean "HERF DERF UR SKUM".
"33 - Mostly pointless questions, very little actually followed up once he has to go on defence. Yet in the next post he accuses Wheat of question dodging."
Yes...he didn't answer the questions. There was nothing to follow up on that I didn't follow up on if I was satisfied with the answers I got. There is absolutely no similarity between not answering questions and not pushing for more answerrs when there's nothing to push for. What the hell does that even mean?
"Desperately trying to seem unconcerned by Jey's pressure which doesn't seem overly scummy til we get to 47, where he votes Jey but just dismissing the meta argument - not actually addressing any of the games Jey cited - but simply by showing a similar post from Iso's inflamable mafia (cause apparently in open games the only relevent meta is other open games)."
There was nothing desperate about it - Jey's pushes absolutely do not concern me, for reasons I've stated before. Also...WHAT games that Jey cited? Jey only cited Katawa Shoujo, and I posted a clear and concise rebuttal to her point. Also...this point makes absolutely no sense, since Jey was referencing KATAWA SHOUJO, a NON-OPEN GAME, to make her point, and yet you clearly state sarcastically here that I'm only using open games as reference for meta? All I did was show why something I did in Katawa Shoujo, as scum, isn't something I only do as scum, as evidenced in Iso's Inflammable. Why are you twisting words?
"There's something off about a gambit where the player doesn't really expect many people to fall for it but they do it anyway (and this reads to me like he really wanted to just do something town!Iso did in the last open setup). I mean really when does town actively try to play to their town meta. :weird:"
The only somewhat valid point of this is the last sentence, and even that's reaching, given that I clearly stated I was going for a similar STRATEGY, not a similar PLAYSTYLE. Also, you're blatantly lying here, saying that I didn't expect many people to fall for it - I stated that I didn't expect anyone who had played in Inflammable to fall for it. From what I recall, that left about half the playerbase as fair game. That's hardly an insignificant amount, as far as reaction baiting goes.
"Also bad vote is bad."
nah
"Basically says its scummy for players to push on scum without absolute certainty."
More twisting. I said that it's scummy to give yourself the chance to backpedal out without committing to the read - you never have to be absolutely certain someone is scum to lynch them, you just have to push them like you believe it because if you don't, then that speaks volumes of your alignment - as I stated in the post you quoted, here.
"And I don't buy this defeatism as real for a second."
Tell me why.
"Spoiler alert: He doesn't do this. His next post is just a long rundown of his recent mafia history to try and quell the wagon."
No, it was me dispelling the notion that I don't get run up early often - because I do - and people were telling me I was lying about that. Your case so far has had absolutely no basis in reality and I question, if you're town, how you can genuinely believe any of the garbage you're spewing right now.
"Iso's big post is kinda long and kinda meh. He's goes a fair amount of stuff I already pointed out, but some of his rehashing "Jey's explanation for voting me is terribad. No wonder I was voting her." seems fake. Many of his questions also seem pot-stirring; "Hey iRebel, since you think JAR and Arch are scumbuddies, do you see any interactive tells between the two that might be worth pursuing?", "@Wheat: why do you like Arch for scum?","@Tan: Who do you suspect aside from Karn right now? Who do you think is most likely to be scum on the Iso wagon at its peak?" rather than genuine scumhunting. But really I get the gist that this is a big post looking to say "hey, I'm here doing *****, let's lynch someone who isn't"."
"a fair amount of stuff I already pointed out" um dude you hadn't pointed anything in the game out UNTIL THIS POST I AM DECONSTRUCTING. Your content has been sparse and unimpressive throughout the ENTIRE GAME. You say my statement RE: Jey seems fake, but the point of this post was to re-establish my view of the game and see if I missed anything, so you'll have to forgive me if I find your assessment of it uncompelling. Many of my questions seem pot-stirring? What does that even mean? Of course I want to stir the pot, I saw things that I wanted to reconcile in my mind and establish connections with. How is that not genuine scumhunting? How is any of that indicative of scum at all?
TL;DR: We should probably lynch JAR at some point, too.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player