While Rhand's initial vote on cyan was flimsier than 1 ply industrial toilet paper, I see where the "defense of cyan from shockwave" was. it was also flimsier than 1 ply industrial toilet paper, but it did happen. and you asked Rhand that question, and he responded in the post immediately prior to you.
Rhand's still gonna keep my vote, but your extreme lack of reading the thread is pretty awful too. like, really awful.
@Cyan, and really everyone missing what's going on really:
I wouldn't be so hasty as to call that not having fun yet Rhand.
Shockwave did defend you, it's actually kinda explicit. the vote is awful, the defense is worthless, unnecessary and meaningless, but it did happen. it kinda hurts my brain that any of this did happen, but it did.
@7hawk77: there's 51 posts prior to yours. is that really the only thing you have to say? what did you mean to gain from this post, and why did you not comment on anything else. there's alot to discuss, and you go out of your way to say nothing at all.
Vote Hunger for making me want food. Unvote since I'm eating now. But now I'm thirsty.
@Mod Can I have a sip of your martini, pleaaaaase?
Game thoughts:
I agree with Cyan in that Shock's 29 seems odd from a scum perspective. It's intent seems to be to put off his lynch as opposed to trying to avoid it.
Rhand is aggressive.
Hans is actually playing this game. Cool.
I'm not getting my usual noob town read on SNL.
Hey Wheat is in this game. Yay! Not sure I like the Silver Rage joke in 48.
I like Niv's 50.
TK has obviously never played with Niv, as I've seen him vote for himself more than once IIRC.
Niv does not respond to the vote in 59, but timestamps indicate that both posted during the same minute.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
You're right Killjoy, I haven't. Do you know of town games where he has voted himself? Niv, you can answer this too.
Did you read the whole post where he voted himself?
He also was asking questions and trying to figure out what's going on in the game.
Most importantly, he unvoted himself and voted for Rhand. Why do you think that questioning people and then voting for someone is "avoiding pushing buttons?"
While Rhand's initial vote on cyan was flimsier than 1 ply industrial toilet paper, I see where the "defense of cyan from shockwave" was. it was also flimsier than 1 ply industrial toilet paper, but it did happen. and you asked Rhand that question, and he responded in the post immediately prior to you.
Rhand's still gonna keep my vote, but your extreme lack of reading the thread is pretty awful too. like, really awful.
@Cyan, and really everyone missing what's going on really:
I wouldn't be so hasty as to call that not having fun yet Rhand.
Shockwave did defend you, it's actually kinda explicit. the vote is awful, the defense is worthless, unnecessary and meaningless, but it did happen. it kinda hurts my brain that any of this did happen, but it did.
@7hawk77: there's 51 posts prior to yours. is that really the only thing you have to say? what did you mean to gain from this post, and why did you not comment on anything else. there's alot to discuss, and you go out of your way to say nothing at all.
So if I get this right, your whole reason for voting me is because my RVS-breaking vote was weak?
It did what it was meant to do: break RVS and start the game.
@SNL - Why do you think Shock should have unvoted his joke vote? What do you think it says about his alignment that he didn't unvote and what do you think it would have said if he had?
I don't think Shock should or shouldn't have unvoted his RVS vote. I do think that, if Shock was really that self-conscious about being questioned by Cyan, he would have unvoted. Yes, post #13 was long and winded, but if Shock wanted to strike all suspicion off of himself, why would he have forgotten to unvote?
What do you think it says about Shock that he didn't? More likely an action from town or from scum?
@Wheat: I've played with Hans before; he generally gambits early and gets himself into trouble. His 32 didn't take into account (or, at least, even acknowledge) the conversation around Shock; he just jumped on the wagon with a non-specific, joking reason. When I mentioned it, he didn't acknowledge that, either, and despite multiple people asking since then, he's continued to ignore it. This is concerning enough that I think a
Vote Hansanator is in order.
@Hans: Why did you vote for Shock?
The condescension from Wheat toward Cyan in 48 is bad. The Cyan post referenced seems in line with what I remember from Cyan.
Need more from Hawk.
@Killjoy: Why would Shock attempting to "put off his lynch" be more town than if he were trying to avoid his lynch altogether?
I don't like Rhand's actions, but I don't know that they make him scum. I'm bothered by Wheat's smear on Cyan. I want Hans to talk about his vote.
If that is Shockwave defending me, I am the President of the United States. Hint: I am not the POTUS.
I think he might be bad enough to do it.
That is Shockwave being overly self-concious, and it is very obviously that. And nothing else. You are trying way too hard to make something out of nothing here, and I can't see why you would do this if you were town.
If that's nothing else then I am the President of the United States. Hint: I am not the POTUS.
@WG: This forum software sucks in basically every way possible for mafia. Just wait until you write up a quote and want to preview to see if new posts have been made that you need to respond to..
That happened once.
And I don't know what you think you are seeing re: Rhand, but I'm pretty sure I am onto something here.
It's not what I'm seeing re: Rhand, it's what I'm seeing re: you.
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In the last half of my post I overturn everything above this line.
I would not have voted shockwave for #13 alone, but #22 is really awkward in how it changes tone. he goes from the timid, to the over top panic mode, after 4 quick votes, which weren't the worst votes in the world. He doesn't even have the reason for the vote right. his #29 really just doesn't make sense, like, at all; he thinks we;re gonna lynch him without a claim, and is posing some odd hypotheticals. "I flip scum, then what?" is also really odd, it's like him saying "hypothetically if I'm scum, what would my lynch do?" well, you see, the only good answer would be we'd get to go into night without a day one mislynch. a rushed lynch on a scum is still a lynch on scum. why you'd even conceder this worthy of being asked, I don't bloody well know. like, this is one of the strangest things I've ever seen.
There's something here I hadn't thought of which proves to me that Shock is town.
I won't say what until he responds to you though.
Unvote
@wheat: everyone seems to have missed that Rhand's early vote was serious. I really don't get how you think only "bad at this game" Cyan makes this point. feel free to wait until after Cyan responds to you to respond to me, but what did you actually find wrong with this post, cause I'm just not seeing it, and I'm curious.
also, I've recently been introduced to this Silver rage tell bull*****. personally I think it's a giant pile of WIFOM garbage. from your response to cantrip, I feel like you feel somewhat similar to it. care to however directly respond to the tell itself, and what you think of it? is "Silver Rage" something that can reliably catch scum?
I am known to miss things, but I did not miss Rhand's serious vote.
What Cyan did that was bad: He pretty much straight up OMGUS'd Rhand and at the same time defended an unpopular wagon and both of those are really stupid things to d...
dammit cyan is probably town too.
RE: Silver Rage: Tells that are known to everyone are BS.
56 is not town Generic. He only plays cautiously when he's scum.
When he's town he doesn't give a ***** what people think his pay makes him look like because he has his own self- reassurance of the fact that he's town and he can comfortably blame everyone else for mislynching him.
But after being run up so many times on Day 1 on this site, he - as scum - has calmed down and tried to be less in- your-face so he doesn't get run up and implode (because he imposes really easy when he gets run up).
Basically: Town!Generic would not just be "sitting back and watching." He would be hopping in proper and not afraid at all of starting a long-winded fight calling tons of attention to himself.
Can't tell if seriously didn't read the rules or is pretending in order to sound town. Can't tell if answer to above dilemma is indicative of alignment for Generic or if just Generic being Generic.
There's something here I hadn't thought of which proves to me that Shock is town.
I won't say what until he responds to you though.
I hate comments like this, because it always feels like coaching. If either Shock or Wheat flips scum, I think the other needs more scrutiny.
Quote from Wheat »
What Cyan did that was bad: He pretty much straight up OMGUS'd Rhand and at the same time defended an unpopular wagon and both of those are really stupid things to d...
dammit cyan is probably town too.
This backpedal feels like you want it to come off as ingenuous, but it just feels constructed.
Quote from Wheat »
RE: Silver Rage: Tells that are known to everyone are BS.
I disagree with this statement. Tells that are known to everyone should be treated differently than other tells, but they're not BS.
@Karn: I thought that too, which is why I'm pushing his buttons. Too bad I forgot he RVS'ed me, the push failed
I'm pretty sure his scumread on me is fabricated. He knows me well and town!Generic would not get a 'gut scum' feel on me when I'm being my early-game-aggressive self.
So far I have big scumreads on Generic and SNL and a weaker scumread on Shockwave. Cyan, TK and Niv are also on my radar.
Generic: knows me too well to talk nonsense about me like this. His town!play is more aggressive.
SNL: Doesn't remember his own reads
Shock: Is nervous, which he does as scum
Cyan: his attack on me is weird and borders omgus. Don't know what to think about that
TK: his opening post has the same problem as SNL's: he RVS'es and then starts nagging about someone else's RVS vote in the same post
Niv: keeping his vote on me for something trivial as ending RVS weakly while clearly understanding my line of thought on Shockwave is weird. It's as if he doesn't want to leave the popular wagon to go hunt some real scum with his vote.
@Cantrip: Shockwave is more nervous as scum than as town. There's also a town-tell I know of him which I don't want to say out loud yet because I don't want him to start fabricating that if he's scum.
I don't know SNL well enough to meta him. I just look for real tells, and forgetting reads certainly is one.
Took three pages for bull***** to win me a vote this time. Are you guys getting slower? It's a shame too cantrip cos I think this is town you this time trying to start my wagon.
Jus the one thig I need answering really, why have you voted based on Karn's assertion that my scum game is cautious when your reason for having issues with me is for loose attention seeking posting?
Rhands side step rather than engaging me is what I wanted so you guys waste your time on me if you must. Rhand has told me himself he likes to put pressure on me and go toe to toe with me when town to figure me out.
You guys should never tell me things, you know I love a game of cat and mouse. And Rhand is scum, wheat is a buddy. Let's do this.
How is (wrongly, apparently) accusing you of not voting me a side-step instead of engaging?
You're right Killjoy, I haven't. Do you know of town games where he has voted himself? Niv, you can answer this too.
Nothing comes to mind of the top of my head. Shouldn't be too hard to look up though. Just go through the games with lots of players. Niv likes his games with lots of booty. More cushion for the pushin' and all that.
@Killjoy: Why would Shock attempting to "put off his lynch" be more town than if he were trying to avoid his lynch altogether?
Let me rephrase: He doesn't seem opposed to his lynch toDay. He would have just preferred it happened later. This mindset is overwhelmingly town, since scum would always be opposed to their lynches... especially less than 50 posts in.
56 is not town Generic. He only plays cautiously when he's scum.
This is true. Fry-questions answered.
Unvote, Vote Generic
How much experiance do you have with Generic?
@Wheat:Vanilla 2 and How to Train Your Dragon were the last two games I was really present for. I was in House, but got swamped with work and replaced out.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Far more problematic is Niv's wonderful vote for himself. Niv, why do you feel the need to avoid pushing buttons?
Vote Niv
I post about 1000 words, call out multiple people, but you can't see past a joke vote for my self in the first line? Should I vote you for your cyan joke on page 4. not really. but should I vote you for discrediting my essay. oh, probably. I've opened every game I've played with a self vote, It wasn't a scum tell 8 years ago, sometime along the way people decided it was. but no comment on anything else in my post. I voted Rhand at the end of it, but you'd rather put on your blinders to that, and call me out for my RVS joke. It's tradition at this point, but you don't care, beacuse you obviously didn't read my post.
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@Rhand: in my #50, I asked you: "how does "...Have we met?" translate to "Hi, I'm Cyan, and I'm scum"?" in the midst of my ramblings. your general response to that is not having fun is a tell. BREAKING NEWS: it's not a tell. and your insistence that Shockwave's awful, unnecessary "defense" of cyan means something. sure it got conversation going, but was conversation your sole intention? the fact that you still think that shockwave post "defending" cyan means anything, just astonishes me. I don't don;t know what your motive is here, but it can't be good.
also: @Rhand/SNL in my #59, the first two lines we're supposed to have a quote infront of them. not sure what happened, gonna go with 1:30am eating my brain, but when I refer to "you" in that post, it was directed at SNL. My bad.
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@cantrip: I got weird vibes when hans did his little vote on shockwave, it felt awful, but I wasn't 100% convinced yet. however, hans' response is equally awful. For the lolz? really?
so
@hans: in what world is RVSing the major wagon at the time acceptable? you do not randomly join the first day one wagon like that. it's like wtfwtfwtf. the fact however that you're actually saying you joined it because everyone had voted him is however really, really, odd.
-------
@karn: if he;s capable of altering his playstyle as scum, like you say, then why, as town, would he not be able to do the same? neither town nor scum ever wants to be lynched, and if in this very post you admit he's capable of altering his playstyle, why do you think he can't alter his town playstyle as well, to also avoid being run up day one? your post is one giant pile of WIFOM as a result. not a fan. and I'm not sure if I'd call 2 gut reads, one of which he's already voting, cautious. yah, you're spewing WIFOM garbage, and wrong. neat!
@Cantrip: I guess the "where did generic play cautiously?" question applies to you too.
Aside right here: Generic wasn't around back in the day, just for some perspective, is he kinda like the new Vezok or joboman? just completly off the wall crazy poster?
in addition though: @Generic: you're almost disappointed that it took 3 pages for you to get votes. Wait, what?
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Rhand vs Generic posts 75 - 83, I'm gonna just write off as a waste of time, I've read them like 3 times each now, and my brain hurts.
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but all that mess aside, I really don't like TK's vote on me. like, at all, a couple other people commented on it. he ignored a 1000 word post to vote for me on a stock tell, told me I was "avoiding pushing buttons". like, really.
Still looking at Rhand, and SNL, and possibly karn, but right now, lets UnVote, Vote TK-421
56 is not town Generic. He only plays cautiously when he's scum.
When he's town he doesn't give a ***** what people think his pay makes him look like because he has his own self- reassurance of the fact that he's town and he can comfortably blame everyone else for mislynching him.
But after being run up so many times on Day 1 on this site, he - as scum - has calmed down and tried to be less in- your-face so he doesn't get run up and implode (because he imposes really easy when he gets run up).
Basically: Town!Generic would not just be "sitting back and watching." He would be hopping in proper and not afraid at all of starting a long-winded fight calling tons of attention to himself.
Which was the cautious post again? The gut reads on two specific people?
Try a bit harder to make stuff up Karny.
Because saying "I have these two gut reads" is super aggressive and takes a lot of risk and pulls a ton of attention to yourself.
Not voting (4): Seppel, 7hawk77, Kiljoy, hansanator
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to burn.
Uck. I sincerely hope all this talk about 1v1ing each other doesn't conflict with the very strict NO FRATERNIZATION OR ASSIGNATIONS WITH FELLOW ISIS EMPLOYEES rule I'm sure you're all familiar with. What is this? Spring break at Fort Lauderdale? I'm paying you to save ISIS, NOT TO HAVE SEX WITH EACH OTHER.
Now if you'll excuse me I have a gentleman caller. If you have any questions or requests for me I'll see them tomorrow.
Aside right here: Generic wasn't around back in the day, just for some perspective, is he kinda like the new Vezok or joboman? just completly off the wall crazy poster?
He's like Vezok, but less offensive. I never got to play with Jobo, IIRC.
but all that mess aside, I really don't like TK's vote on me. like, at all, a couple other people commented on it. he ignored a 1000 word post to vote for me on a stock tell, told me I was "avoiding pushing buttons". like, really.
I just reread your first post, and I can't see where he gets the idea that you're trying not to push buttons. Your language in the rest of the post is not at all cautious, and is actually likely to push a bunch of buttons. I'm ok with a vote on TK. Vote TK
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I just reread your first post, and I can't see where he gets the idea that you're trying not to push buttons. Your language in the rest of the post is not at all cautious, and is actually likely to push a bunch of buttons. I'm ok with a vote on TK. Vote TK
What a completely awful reason for a vote. Unvote, Vote killjoy
Tk voted Niv for voting himself, foot which TK said Niv was trying to avoid making enemies and pushing buttons. The entire rest of the post is direct questions which no one can really interpret as trying not to push buttons.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Jus the one thig I need answering really, why have you voted based on Karn's assertion that my scum game is cautious when your reason for having issues with me is for loose attention seeking posting?
Before I answer you that, will you answer me this? Do the scum have day-chat?
@Cantrip: Shockwave is more nervous as scum than as town. There's also a town-tell I know of him which I don't want to say out loud yet because I don't want him to start fabricating that if he's scum.
I don't know SNL well enough to meta him. I just look for real tells, and forgetting reads certainly is one.
In your experience, do you find Shock and SNL easy to read, hard to read, impossible to read...?
Oooh, do I get to 1v1 Rhand? Come on, let's do it!
I can't lose eithe way, either I get my wish and bag a scum lynch day 1, or I leave the game with a vote on scum and several league opponents getting a minus score for mislynching me.
This kind of overconfidence always sounds to me like it either stems from bussing a buddy or it's an attempt to create a long-term persona that's harder to read. I can't recall if you've done the latter in completed games where you were town, but I wouldn't put it past you. But I'm calling you out: There is no way that town!you knows that Rhand is scum. If you're town, statements like this don't help anything.
Took three pages for bull***** to win me a vote this time. Are you guys getting slower? It's a shame too cantrip cos I think this is town you this time trying to start my wagon.
Jus the one thig I need answering really, why have you voted based on Karn's assertion that my scum game is cautious when your reason for having issues with me is for loose attention seeking posting?
Rhands side step rather than engaging me is what I wanted so you guys waste your time on me if you must. Rhand has told me himself he likes to put pressure on me and go toe to toe with me when town to figure me out.
You guys should never tell me things, you know I love a game of cat and mouse. And Rhand is scum, wheat is a buddy. Let's do this.
How is (wrongly, apparently) accusing you of not voting me a side-step instead of engaging?
Why would town you not read what I wrote? It's not like I have many posts up til now, I've had a very busy 24 hours and finally has a chance to he my teeth into this. Laughably people don't see much from me and immediately assume something is amiss. Yet I have not posted much in any of my games.
See what you did there? Rhand asked a direct question and you did just what you accused him of: you side-stepped and attacked his play. The rest is unnecessarily explanatory; where did someone question your activity?
The arguement agains me is a careful post. The same post in which I declare two strong players scum, inviting them to defend or even attack back. I'm ignored. So I go again, being antagonistic and attention seeking. Your response is to **** up the handwaving attack.
But your post 56 wasn't what I think of as a typical Generic attack. Normally you're direct, accusatory, vote-happy, throwing caution to the wind. Here's 56:
I have a real gut feeli for wheat grinder and Rhand as scum. Maybe I'm being swayed by a momentum thing and wheats push in the other direction, not sure. But I am happy to see what plays out here right now.
Your reasoning is soft-core (gut), and you fall back on "maybe it's momentum". And then you take a passive seat by saying you're happy to sit back and watch. No votes, no accusations. For you, yes, I see it as cautious.
@Killjoy: Why would Shock attempting to "put off his lynch" be more town than if he were trying to avoid his lynch altogether?
Let me rephrase: He doesn't seem opposed to his lynch toDay. He would have just preferred it happened later. This mindset is overwhelmingly town, since scum would always be opposed to their lynches... especially less than 50 posts in.
Hmm...I would probably have interpreted "trying to put off my lynch" as defeatist...but I can see what you're saying, and your response makes me feel good about you.
There's something here I hadn't thought of which proves to me that Shock is town.
I won't say what until he responds to you though.
I hate comments like this, because it always feels like coaching. If either Shock or Wheat flips scum, I think the other needs more scrutiny.
I've still never seen any real evidence that coaching is a thing. Have you? If so where?
IIRC, there was a bit of this in Apocalypse, and I'm pretty sure I've read other games where open coaching occurred, but without searching it out, I couldn't point you to it.
Cantrip thinks he is going to be Iso, the person I would say is closest to beig able to read me.
a) I wouldn't presume to compare myself to the incomparable Iso, and b) I'm pretty sure I'm a long way off from consistently being able to read you accurately. I don't know that I have it right this time, but the bells continue to go off, so my vote continues to stay on you.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Alright, here's a list of answers for questions asked of me since I last posted... I thought I remembered more. Will follow up any replies to them and start looking at other things when I wake up.
@Concerning "lack of games together" (Cantrip): at the time I wrote that I had thought I had been in one game with Cyan as town (tend to remember scum play over town for some reason.) But due to my not using something called the Internet to check things my groggy brain was trying to decipher I didn't think of that until later.
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@Not unvoting Cyan post realization (SNL): I'm not against letting an RVS vote to linger if one, I am still getting a feel for players in a game and two, the vote isn't likely to be a big deal at the time (at the time SNL asked this Cyan was L-8 and even after this there hasn't been much interest in him.)
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@Thinking I was in a game with Cyan (Cantrip): When I woke up that morning I had a feeling I had been in a game with him. Why? Not sure. Maybe mentioned in one of my previous games pre-game posts? I'll have to check. Not sure the purpose of this question though.
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@"I flip scum then what?" Meaning (Niv): It was an extension of the previous question, if I flip now what does it tell you. I am trying to at least get people thinking what information if any it would give us and possibly what the results of that information or lack of would be.
I don't want lack of information going into Day 2 as it leaves a lot of things unexplained as to why choices would be made the first Night.
@Generic: I don't think you are, but if you're town, go hunt scum. For some reason you're almost exclusively talking about me and yourself.
@Cantrip: I think Shock is one of the easier-to-read players; he has a very easy to spot towntell. SNL isn't easy to read.
Shock's latest post is better. He looks calmer.
I'll answer back to Cantrip point for point in the morning, but for now... Cantrip and Generic both seem to be asking the pointless question of whether the scum have daychat. Please stop this and get back to scumhunting. It just makes more to read.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I just got home from a midnight conspiracy draft, but a couple quick questions/points before I go fall over. BTW, that format is like Batman Jesus. one of the pods, the game was won by a G/W Parley focused mill deck. run 50 cards, mill the table. It's everything you've ever wanted, and more.
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I'm largley ignoring Cantrip's post right now, I'll look back on it in the morning, but right now those quote walls are making my brain fuzzy.
Even Generic's explanation of himself reminds me of Vezok. this is gonna be a thing. that aside, he feels like a vezok that actually wants to help in some way, and isn't just a useless pile of words. Cool.
something people seem to be missing regarding Generic though, is prior to the post where people called him cautious (cantrip, karn, probably someone else, #3AM), He was already voting Rhand. how in the world of flying bat babies is that still cautious. he's voting the bloody guy. while it's not reckless and I don't know the meta, I'd still never call it cautious. I commented on Karn's awful first post in one of my other walls, but I think at this point he's getting worse, not better.
Also, What do you guys actually mean by 1 v 1? like, lynch one, then lynch the other. or are you all just retarded?
also: it's been pointed out subtilly, and I can tell you're just trying to emphasize that you think Rhand's scum. I too think Rhand's scum. but for posterity:
but yah, Generic, anyone else worth taking a look at right now? what do you think of TK's post? would you be willing to support that wagon? anything else you're looking at right now, or we just gonna tunnel Rhand? 1 v 1 all day, every day, whatever that bloody well means.
oh, also, @Rhand: you're telling generic to go do something useful, and hunt scum, but he's got a solid scum read on you, and so do other people, myself included. so, yah, he is hunting scum, but you just don't like that it's you, and you'd rather try to discredit Generic, than actually deal with him?
7Hawk's post makes a lot of sense, and just the way it was answered, for how little content it contained, while still containing solid content, really just screams town to me already.
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@Cyan: I want you to comment, in detail, Why TK's post isn't awful, and then to tell me why I didn't get voted for by you?
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@shockwave: you failed. there is exactly zero town motivation for posing that question, since town know they're not going to flip mafia. why ever contemplate the scenario. and if you have a town mindset, you would understand that a Day one scum death is a day one scum death. if it happened on page 2, with half the town posting, it's a good thing. It is never a bad play to lynch mafia, and the fact that you so much as posted the question, is very incriminating. if we lynch mafia, day one, at any time during day one, it's a good thing. End.
so, yah, scum mindset in every way, shape, and form.
but all that said, my vote's Staying on TK atm, beacuse they're scum too, but consider my vote on you as well. Rhand and karn are still close on my radar as well.
@Niv: Generic is not hunting scum. He isn't asking me anything that would show him my alignment. He's just repeating tons of times that I'm scum and that's it.
Like the silly daychat question: does he really think I would slip as scum and say 'no, we don't' or something stupid like that? Ofc not. It's a useless question and just an example of what he's spamming the thread with.
He hasn't accused me of anything; I think he's trying to bait me out to engage him 1 vs 1 because he knows I tend to tunnel when that works and that I lose a great deal of my scumhunting effectiveness in the process. Arnarria did the same thing to me in Futurama, and Generic knows that because I talked about it with him in our Hydra chat.
He's trying to exploit my weaknesses, and I don't see town motivation in that.
You tell me I'm not dealing with Generic's attacks. Please look back at his attacks and find me something that I should react on but didn't.
Are you saying that scum!Generic would not use the flaws he knows of people against them?
That's rich.
I ignored your 'gut feel' comment at first yes. There was nothing adressed to me in it, I had enough other leads to follow and was under lots of other pressure.
How does ignoring someone mentioning me without reasoning or questioning make me scum?
Your conviction of me being scum is off, and I don't see town!Generic make a play like that.
You wanting to engage me in 1vs1 points to you being sure that we should be fighting this game, and the only way to be sure of that is if you know we're not on the same team.
What happened to make you go from a 'gut feel' to conviction?
You're wrong. And I am not tunneling on you. If you would actually read my posts, you would know that I have more scumreads. My vote is on one of them.
You're trying very hard to get me to tunnel you though.
What I've got to lose? I hate getting lynched as any alignment. And I am not willing to risk myself just to get someone I think is scum lynched. If I'm wrong, that would net scum 2 mislynches.
I don't believe you when you say you're sure enough about me to risk the above scenario.
Why are you more concerned about getting league points than about the game itself?
Now answer the first question in my previous post please.
TK: his opening post has the same problem as SNL's: he RVS'es and then starts nagging about someone else's RVS vote in the same post
This is ignoring the context and details of what I had a problem with. Do you have an actual issue with my RVS vote? Was it too explanatory, too self-aware, too pokey? I had an issue with his RVS vote, not the fact that he was RVSing in general. An excellent misrep though...
Far more problematic is Niv's wonderful vote for himself. Niv, why do you feel the need to avoid pushing buttons?
Vote Niv
I post about 1000 words, call out multiple people, but you can't see past a joke vote for my self in the first line? Should I vote you for your cyan joke on page 4. not really. but should I vote you for discrediting my essay. oh, probably. I've opened every game I've played with a self vote, It wasn't a scum tell 8 years ago, sometime along the way people decided it was. but no comment on anything else in my post. I voted Rhand at the end of it, but you'd rather put on your blinders to that, and call me out for my RVS joke. It's tradition at this point, but you don't care, beacuse you obviously didn't read my post.
Well, I knew it as a scumtell. Thus my vote. But I'm obviously not as skilled as you are. And that's ignoring that I tend to be terrible at my best.
Anyway, I did like most of your essay. Quite a few points were exactly what I was thinking. No reason for me to /barn it. But then the "scumtell" and the potential that you were reaching out for low hanging fruit made me wary. However, without such insidious context of the scumtell, it looks a lot more genuine.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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@Tk: I am always wary when someone RVS votes outside of RVS. Your reasoning on Niv's self-vote wasn't correct, and it looked hypocritical to single out his RVS vote from a larger post in which he even revotes while placing a RvS vote yourself.
I don't like your 'misrep' comment you added. Do you think I am scum?
@Niv: I forgot to answer an earlier question from you regarding Shock and his defence of Cyan.
I do think it might mean something yes. But that post was more than that: he was very nervous and self-aware in the rest of it, which is a tell for Shockwave. The defence of Cyan thing I brought up because people misread that, and it can be useful info if one of them ever flips scum.
Then point them out?
Your posts are hard to react on, you hide the points you want to make in lots of text.
My tunneling is a flaw that I am working on.
I never said it makes me look scummy, i said it has a bad influence on my scumhunting because I stop looking outside of the tunnel when I am doing it.
Also, you said you were insulted when I accused you of using my flaws against me because you don't need 'cheap tricks' as scum, but now you admit that you do use people's flaws against them as scum?
Then why get insulted when I think that is what you're doing?
In the very first post you made about me after RVS, you said it was a gutread and sounded very unsure about it.
What gave you that gutread?
I am starting to believe that you've been planning to take me down toDay even before the game started.
My input is already there, but I often think rhand is scum. I currently have cyan as null and I feel like his analysis is good. This will accomplish two things, get me a better read on cyan and get a second perspective on this 1v1 thing.
@Hawk: I think Generic continues to be the same 'character' he has been in the other game(s)? I have been in with him, and I'm not thrilled with Rhand. He has played enough games(and by his own admission many games with Shockwave) that he shouldn't have been so quick to jump on shockwave, and now he seems to have moved onto tk with similarly lacking provocation. Maybe that is just how he is and it's not actually a scum tell for him? I'm trying to figure it out, but I don't like the behavior in a vacuum.
But Killjoy's similar behavior looks even worse, especially the way he tried to hide his vote in the middle of a post. He votes for TK based on not agreeing with how TK interpreted a post. But that is just it. TK's post was obviously a 'this is how it looks from my perspective' post. Voting someone for something like that doesn't make sense. Either A)TK is correctly interpreting the post, which doesn't make TK scum, or B)he is incorrectly interpreting it, which..still doesn't make him scum. You can't really argue here that he is trying to misrepresent Niv based on one single post that literally everyone will read. It just looks like Killjoy liked this wagon enough to go along with it, and tried to justify that afterward.
@Niv: I've played enough games with you to know that it will take some time to discern what is going on with you..I've been burned enough times by reading posts of yours that look thoroughly scummy, forcing your lynch, and having you somehow flip town. But don't worry. If you are scum, I will figure it out.
Niv comes off as genuine and town to me so far. His posts just make sense from town to me.
I'm not certain on Shock, but from the times I have played with him, so far this looks more like town!Shock to me. He really wants to play well and so I think of him over-explaining himself and over-thinking things in thread as his town game.
Killjoy is giving me town vibes as well. More on a gut level so far though.
SNL has been town in the two games I played with him and he feels different to me so far this game. In those games he seemed bad, but genuine. Here it seems like he was trying to seem active out the gate, but it felt forced, like he didn't actually have a goal in mind other than to appear to be doing something. Leaning scum here.
Re: Rhand v Generic
- Rhand seems to be on his back foot a bit which I haven't seen from either town or scum Rhand, but my sample size is small (1 of each I think?). My gut is leaning scum for a seeming lack of conviction on his stance with Generic. He seems a bit off balance in his replies to Generic's attacks, which says scum being cautious to me. I'm not super confident in that read though, but have Rhand leaning scum based on the interaction.
- Generic is being really aggressive and overly confident, which I typically equate to a null tell and let it be more of a meta call with a slight lean to scum for people I haven't played with. Most of his points are actually clicking with me though and I'm not seeing the scum angle here. He prides himself on being devious and hard to read though, so a play isn't out of the question, but it's something I'm not worried about at this point. Putting him in the town pile for now.
- I liked his train of thought to find Shock towny. Seemed like he was thinking about it from a town mindset.
- He said something similar to me about SNL. Something along the lines of not seeing typical poor town SNL as being alarming.
- And I think there was one other thing, let me check...Oh yeah, I agreed with his stance on coaching not really being a thing. That's probably a null tell though.
Rhand's still gonna keep my vote, but your extreme lack of reading the thread is pretty awful too. like, really awful.
@Cyan, and really everyone missing what's going on really:
Shockwave did defend you, it's actually kinda explicit. the vote is awful, the defense is worthless, unnecessary and meaningless, but it did happen. it kinda hurts my brain that any of this did happen, but it did.
@7hawk77: there's 51 posts prior to yours. is that really the only thing you have to say? what did you mean to gain from this post, and why did you not comment on anything else. there's alot to discuss, and you go out of your way to say nothing at all.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Unvote since I'm eating now. But now I'm thirsty.
@Mod Can I have a sip of your martini, pleaaaaase?
Game thoughts:
I agree with Cyan in that Shock's 29 seems odd from a scum perspective. It's intent seems to be to put off his lynch as opposed to trying to avoid it.
Rhand is aggressive.
Hans is actually playing this game. Cool.
I'm not getting my usual noob town read on SNL.
Hey Wheat is in this game. Yay! Not sure I like the Silver Rage joke in 48.
I like Niv's 50.
TK has obviously never played with Niv, as I've seen him vote for himself more than once IIRC.
Niv does not respond to the vote in 59, but timestamps indicate that both posted during the same minute.
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Kill shot: BB
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ABSOLUTELY MOST CERTAINLY NOT AND IF YOU ASK ME AGAIN I'LL PUT A LOCK ON THE LIQUOR CABINET SO NO ONE CAN ENJOY IT.
MOVING ON.
He also was asking questions and trying to figure out what's going on in the game.
Most importantly, he unvoted himself and voted for Rhand. Why do you think that questioning people and then voting for someone is "avoiding pushing buttons?"
So if I get this right, your whole reason for voting me is because my RVS-breaking vote was weak?
It did what it was meant to do: break RVS and start the game.
What do you think of SNL?
@Rhand: How many games have you played with Shock? How many with SNL?
What do you think it says about Shock that he didn't? More likely an action from town or from scum?
@Wheat: I've played with Hans before; he generally gambits early and gets himself into trouble. His 32 didn't take into account (or, at least, even acknowledge) the conversation around Shock; he just jumped on the wagon with a non-specific, joking reason. When I mentioned it, he didn't acknowledge that, either, and despite multiple people asking since then, he's continued to ignore it. This is concerning enough that I think a
Vote Hansanator is in order.
@Hans: Why did you vote for Shock?
The condescension from Wheat toward Cyan in 48 is bad. The Cyan post referenced seems in line with what I remember from Cyan.
Need more from Hawk.
@Killjoy: Why would Shock attempting to "put off his lynch" be more town than if he were trying to avoid his lynch altogether?
I don't like Rhand's actions, but I don't know that they make him scum. I'm bothered by Wheat's smear on Cyan. I want Hans to talk about his vote.
Unvote
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I think he might be bad enough to do it.
If that's nothing else then I am the President of the United States. Hint: I am not the POTUS.
That happened once.
It's not what I'm seeing re: Rhand, it's what I'm seeing re: you.
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In the last half of my post I overturn everything above this line.
There's something here I hadn't thought of which proves to me that Shock is town.
I won't say what until he responds to you though.
Unvote
I am known to miss things, but I did not miss Rhand's serious vote.
What Cyan did that was bad: He pretty much straight up OMGUS'd Rhand and at the same time defended an unpopular wagon and both of those are really stupid things to d...
dammit cyan is probably town too.
RE: Silver Rage: Tells that are known to everyone are BS.
Generic hasn't been bodysnatched, I see.
Hey there, Killjoy! When's the last time we actually played together?
@Hans Who's scum?
If you're that convinced I'm scum, then where is your vote?
@Cantrip: I have played quite a lot of games with Shockwave and a few with SNL. I don't know the exact numbers.
When he's town he doesn't give a ***** what people think his pay makes him look like because he has his own self- reassurance of the fact that he's town and he can comfortably blame everyone else for mislynching him.
But after being run up so many times on Day 1 on this site, he - as scum - has calmed down and tried to be less in- your-face so he doesn't get run up and implode (because he imposes really easy when he gets run up).
Basically: Town!Generic would not just be "sitting back and watching." He would be hopping in proper and not afraid at all of starting a long-winded fight calling tons of attention to himself.
Why, when it was obviously no longer RVS?
I hate comments like this, because it always feels like coaching. If either Shock or Wheat flips scum, I think the other needs more scrutiny.
This backpedal feels like you want it to come off as ingenuous, but it just feels constructed.
I disagree with this statement. Tells that are known to everyone should be treated differently than other tells, but they're not BS.
I tend to have a harder time reading both players because they frequently seem scummy, even as town. How do you differentiate?
This is true. Fry-questions answered.
Unvote, Vote Generic
I'm pretty sure his scumread on me is fabricated. He knows me well and town!Generic would not get a 'gut scum' feel on me when I'm being my early-game-aggressive self.
So far I have big scumreads on Generic and SNL and a weaker scumread on Shockwave. Cyan, TK and Niv are also on my radar.
Generic: knows me too well to talk nonsense about me like this. His town!play is more aggressive.
SNL: Doesn't remember his own reads
Shock: Is nervous, which he does as scum
Cyan: his attack on me is weird and borders omgus. Don't know what to think about that
TK: his opening post has the same problem as SNL's: he RVS'es and then starts nagging about someone else's RVS vote in the same post
Niv: keeping his vote on me for something trivial as ending RVS weakly while clearly understanding my line of thought on Shockwave is weird. It's as if he doesn't want to leave the popular wagon to go hunt some real scum with his vote.
@Cantrip: Shockwave is more nervous as scum than as town. There's also a town-tell I know of him which I don't want to say out loud yet because I don't want him to start fabricating that if he's scum.
I don't know SNL well enough to meta him. I just look for real tells, and forgetting reads certainly is one.
How is (wrongly, apparently) accusing you of not voting me a side-step instead of engaging?
Why are you so set on 1v1'ing me? What makes you so convinced I'm scum?
And why should I care who RVS votes me?
How much experiance do you have with Generic?
@Wheat:Vanilla 2 and How to Train Your Dragon were the last two games I was really present for. I was in House, but got swamped with work and replaced out.
I post about 1000 words, call out multiple people, but you can't see past a joke vote for my self in the first line? Should I vote you for your cyan joke on page 4. not really. but should I vote you for discrediting my essay. oh, probably. I've opened every game I've played with a self vote, It wasn't a scum tell 8 years ago, sometime along the way people decided it was. but no comment on anything else in my post. I voted Rhand at the end of it, but you'd rather put on your blinders to that, and call me out for my RVS joke. It's tradition at this point, but you don't care, beacuse you obviously didn't read my post.
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@Rhand: in my #50, I asked you: "how does "...Have we met?" translate to "Hi, I'm Cyan, and I'm scum"?" in the midst of my ramblings. your general response to that is not having fun is a tell. BREAKING NEWS: it's not a tell. and your insistence that Shockwave's awful, unnecessary "defense" of cyan means something. sure it got conversation going, but was conversation your sole intention? the fact that you still think that shockwave post "defending" cyan means anything, just astonishes me. I don't don;t know what your motive is here, but it can't be good.
also:
@Rhand/SNL in my #59, the first two lines we're supposed to have a quote infront of them. not sure what happened, gonna go with 1:30am eating my brain, but when I refer to "you" in that post, it was directed at SNL. My bad.
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@cantrip: I got weird vibes when hans did his little vote on shockwave, it felt awful, but I wasn't 100% convinced yet. however, hans' response is equally awful. For the lolz? really?
so
@hans: in what world is RVSing the major wagon at the time acceptable? you do not randomly join the first day one wagon like that. it's like wtfwtfwtf. the fact however that you're actually saying you joined it because everyone had voted him is however really, really, odd.
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@karn: if he;s capable of altering his playstyle as scum, like you say, then why, as town, would he not be able to do the same? neither town nor scum ever wants to be lynched, and if in this very post you admit he's capable of altering his playstyle, why do you think he can't alter his town playstyle as well, to also avoid being run up day one? your post is one giant pile of WIFOM as a result. not a fan. and I'm not sure if I'd call 2 gut reads, one of which he's already voting, cautious. yah, you're spewing WIFOM garbage, and wrong. neat!
@Cantrip: I guess the "where did generic play cautiously?" question applies to you too.
Aside right here: Generic wasn't around back in the day, just for some perspective, is he kinda like the new Vezok or joboman? just completly off the wall crazy poster?
in addition though:
@Generic: you're almost disappointed that it took 3 pages for you to get votes. Wait, what?
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Rhand vs Generic posts 75 - 83, I'm gonna just write off as a waste of time, I've read them like 3 times each now, and my brain hurts.
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but all that mess aside, I really don't like TK's vote on me. like, at all, a couple other people commented on it. he ignored a 1000 word post to vote for me on a stock tell, told me I was "avoiding pushing buttons". like, really.
Still looking at Rhand, and SNL, and possibly karn, but right now, lets UnVote, Vote TK-421
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I think your explanation of generic is right but I don't see any caution.
@Niv
Here is my thoughts on those earlier posts. Not posting about them doesn't mean they didn't influence my decision.
Cyan = null to slight town. I've seen similar openings by him in the past.
shockwave = lean town.
Rhand= lean scum.
sense talking to null and town reads doesn't help me find scum, I asked my scumspect a question that wasn't covered by other people.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Because saying "I have these two gut reads" is super aggressive and takes a lot of risk and pulls a ton of attention to yourself.
I think Killjoy is scum.
okay let's actually respond now
god i can't even quote cantrip's post because of too much tag-wading
What do you think about Cyan in the even that Shock flips scum?
I think I was going to respond to other stuff too but I got distracted and now I can't see what.
I like Karn this game.
Vote: TK-421
Shockwave07 (2): Antny223, Sir Karn
SelesnyaNewLife (1): Rhand
Rhand (3): Generic, Cyan, SelesnyaNewLife
TK-421 (2): Niv, Wheat_Grinder
Generic (2): Hunger, Cantripmancer
Niv (1): TK-421
Cyan (1): Shockwave07
Not voting (4): Seppel, 7hawk77, Kiljoy, hansanator
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to burn.
Uck. I sincerely hope all this talk about 1v1ing each other doesn't conflict with the very strict NO FRATERNIZATION OR ASSIGNATIONS WITH FELLOW ISIS EMPLOYEES rule I'm sure you're all familiar with. What is this? Spring break at Fort Lauderdale? I'm paying you to save ISIS, NOT TO HAVE SEX WITH EACH OTHER.
Now if you'll excuse me I have a gentleman caller. If you have any questions or requests for me I'll see them tomorrow.
I just reread your first post, and I can't see where he gets the idea that you're trying not to push buttons. Your language in the rest of the post is not at all cautious, and is actually likely to push a bunch of buttons. I'm ok with a vote on TK. Vote TK
Why does "not aggressive" = cautious to you? I'm not seeing an intent to avoid attention in Generic's posts.
What a completely awful reason for a vote. Unvote, Vote killjoy
Tks vote was obviously terrible.
In your experience, do you find Shock and SNL easy to read, hard to read, impossible to read...?
This kind of overconfidence always sounds to me like it either stems from bussing a buddy or it's an attempt to create a long-term persona that's harder to read. I can't recall if you've done the latter in completed games where you were town, but I wouldn't put it past you. But I'm calling you out: There is no way that town!you knows that Rhand is scum. If you're town, statements like this don't help anything.
See what you did there? Rhand asked a direct question and you did just what you accused him of: you side-stepped and attacked his play. The rest is unnecessarily explanatory; where did someone question your activity?
But your post 56 wasn't what I think of as a typical Generic attack. Normally you're direct, accusatory, vote-happy, throwing caution to the wind. Here's 56:
Your reasoning is soft-core (gut), and you fall back on "maybe it's momentum". And then you take a passive seat by saying you're happy to sit back and watch. No votes, no accusations. For you, yes, I see it as cautious.
Hmm...I would probably have interpreted "trying to put off my lynch" as defeatist...but I can see what you're saying, and your response makes me feel good about you.
IIRC, there was a bit of this in Apocalypse, and I'm pretty sure I've read other games where open coaching occurred, but without searching it out, I couldn't point you to it.
More than I'd really prefer, recently, but the recent ones are all in-progress games. Two GIP, plus...two or three other games, I believe.
See above.
Yeah, that's about the right response.
a) I wouldn't presume to compare myself to the incomparable Iso, and b) I'm pretty sure I'm a long way off from consistently being able to read you accurately. I don't know that I have it right this time, but the bells continue to go off, so my vote continues to stay on you.
You do know Hooker isn't in this game, right?
Mission achieved.
That's...a good question. I'm going to delay answering for just a bit.
@Shockwave: What did you mean by "But maybe that's because of the lack of games together..." in post 7?
I support pressure on TK, but I think Generic needs it more.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Mod:Can I take a vacation too?
@Concerning "lack of games together" (Cantrip): at the time I wrote that I had thought I had been in one game with Cyan as town (tend to remember scum play over town for some reason.) But due to my not using something called the Internet to check things my groggy brain was trying to decipher I didn't think of that until later.
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@Not unvoting Cyan post realization (SNL): I'm not against letting an RVS vote to linger if one, I am still getting a feel for players in a game and two, the vote isn't likely to be a big deal at the time (at the time SNL asked this Cyan was L-8 and even after this there hasn't been much interest in him.)
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@Thinking I was in a game with Cyan (Cantrip): When I woke up that morning I had a feeling I had been in a game with him. Why? Not sure. Maybe mentioned in one of my previous games pre-game posts? I'll have to check. Not sure the purpose of this question though.
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@"I flip scum then what?" Meaning (Niv): It was an extension of the previous question, if I flip now what does it tell you. I am trying to at least get people thinking what information if any it would give us and possibly what the results of that information or lack of would be.
I don't want lack of information going into Day 2 as it leaves a lot of things unexplained as to why choices would be made the first Night.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
@Cantrip: I think Shock is one of the easier-to-read players; he has a very easy to spot towntell. SNL isn't easy to read.
Shock's latest post is better. He looks calmer.
@Karn: what are your reads on SNL and TK?
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I'm largley ignoring Cantrip's post right now, I'll look back on it in the morning, but right now those quote walls are making my brain fuzzy.
Even Generic's explanation of himself reminds me of Vezok. this is gonna be a thing. that aside, he feels like a vezok that actually wants to help in some way, and isn't just a useless pile of words. Cool.
something people seem to be missing regarding Generic though, is prior to the post where people called him cautious (cantrip, karn, probably someone else, #3AM), He was already voting Rhand. how in the world of flying bat babies is that still cautious. he's voting the bloody guy. while it's not reckless and I don't know the meta, I'd still never call it cautious. I commented on Karn's awful first post in one of my other walls, but I think at this point he's getting worse, not better.
Also, What do you guys actually mean by 1 v 1? like, lynch one, then lynch the other. or are you all just retarded?
also: it's been pointed out subtilly, and I can tell you're just trying to emphasize that you think Rhand's scum. I too think Rhand's scum. but for posterity:
but yah, Generic, anyone else worth taking a look at right now? what do you think of TK's post? would you be willing to support that wagon? anything else you're looking at right now, or we just gonna tunnel Rhand? 1 v 1 all day, every day, whatever that bloody well means.
oh, also, @Rhand: you're telling generic to go do something useful, and hunt scum, but he's got a solid scum read on you, and so do other people, myself included. so, yah, he is hunting scum, but you just don't like that it's you, and you'd rather try to discredit Generic, than actually deal with him?
7Hawk's post makes a lot of sense, and just the way it was answered, for how little content it contained, while still containing solid content, really just screams town to me already.
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@Cyan: I want you to comment, in detail, Why TK's post isn't awful, and then to tell me why I didn't get voted for by you?
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@shockwave: you failed. there is exactly zero town motivation for posing that question, since town know they're not going to flip mafia. why ever contemplate the scenario. and if you have a town mindset, you would understand that a Day one scum death is a day one scum death. if it happened on page 2, with half the town posting, it's a good thing. It is never a bad play to lynch mafia, and the fact that you so much as posted the question, is very incriminating. if we lynch mafia, day one, at any time during day one, it's a good thing. End.
so, yah, scum mindset in every way, shape, and form.
but all that said, my vote's Staying on TK atm, beacuse they're scum too, but consider my vote on you as well. Rhand and karn are still close on my radar as well.
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Like the silly daychat question: does he really think I would slip as scum and say 'no, we don't' or something stupid like that? Ofc not. It's a useless question and just an example of what he's spamming the thread with.
He hasn't accused me of anything; I think he's trying to bait me out to engage him 1 vs 1 because he knows I tend to tunnel when that works and that I lose a great deal of my scumhunting effectiveness in the process. Arnarria did the same thing to me in Futurama, and Generic knows that because I talked about it with him in our Hydra chat.
He's trying to exploit my weaknesses, and I don't see town motivation in that.
You tell me I'm not dealing with Generic's attacks. Please look back at his attacks and find me something that I should react on but didn't.
That's rich.
I ignored your 'gut feel' comment at first yes. There was nothing adressed to me in it, I had enough other leads to follow and was under lots of other pressure.
How does ignoring someone mentioning me without reasoning or questioning make me scum?
Your conviction of me being scum is off, and I don't see town!Generic make a play like that.
You wanting to engage me in 1vs1 points to you being sure that we should be fighting this game, and the only way to be sure of that is if you know we're not on the same team.
What happened to make you go from a 'gut feel' to conviction?
You're trying very hard to get me to tunnel you though.
What I've got to lose? I hate getting lynched as any alignment. And I am not willing to risk myself just to get someone I think is scum lynched. If I'm wrong, that would net scum 2 mislynches.
I don't believe you when you say you're sure enough about me to risk the above scenario.
Why are you more concerned about getting league points than about the game itself?
Now answer the first question in my previous post please.
Thank you. Unvote.
Dumb question is dumb.
This is ignoring the context and details of what I had a problem with. Do you have an actual issue with my RVS vote? Was it too explanatory, too self-aware, too pokey? I had an issue with his RVS vote, not the fact that he was RVSing in general. An excellent misrep though...
Well, I knew it as a scumtell. Thus my vote. But I'm obviously not as skilled as you are. And that's ignoring that I tend to be terrible at my best.
Anyway, I did like most of your essay. Quite a few points were exactly what I was thinking. No reason for me to /barn it. But then the "scumtell" and the potential that you were reaching out for low hanging fruit made me wary. However, without such insidious context of the scumtell, it looks a lot more genuine.
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You are of course free to do whatever you like, Operative Killjoy dear. Just be prepared to face the consequences for delinquency.
I don't like your 'misrep' comment you added. Do you think I am scum?
I do think it might mean something yes. But that post was more than that: he was very nervous and self-aware in the rest of it, which is a tell for Shockwave. The defence of Cyan thing I brought up because people misread that, and it can be useful info if one of them ever flips scum.
Your posts are hard to react on, you hide the points you want to make in lots of text.
My tunneling is a flaw that I am working on.
I never said it makes me look scummy, i said it has a bad influence on my scumhunting because I stop looking outside of the tunnel when I am doing it.
Also, you said you were insulted when I accused you of using my flaws against me because you don't need 'cheap tricks' as scum, but now you admit that you do use people's flaws against them as scum?
Then why get insulted when I think that is what you're doing?
In the very first post you made about me after RVS, you said it was a gutread and sounded very unsure about it.
What gave you that gutread?
I am starting to believe that you've been planning to take me down toDay even before the game started.
what do you think about this rhand generic interaction?
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But Killjoy's similar behavior looks even worse, especially the way he tried to hide his vote in the middle of a post. He votes for TK based on not agreeing with how TK interpreted a post. But that is just it. TK's post was obviously a 'this is how it looks from my perspective' post. Voting someone for something like that doesn't make sense. Either A)TK is correctly interpreting the post, which doesn't make TK scum, or B)he is incorrectly interpreting it, which..still doesn't make him scum. You can't really argue here that he is trying to misrepresent Niv based on one single post that literally everyone will read. It just looks like Killjoy liked this wagon enough to go along with it, and tried to justify that afterward.
@Niv: I've played enough games with you to know that it will take some time to discern what is going on with you..I've been burned enough times by reading posts of yours that look thoroughly scummy, forcing your lynch, and having you somehow flip town. But don't worry. If you are scum, I will figure it out.
I'm not certain on Shock, but from the times I have played with him, so far this looks more like town!Shock to me. He really wants to play well and so I think of him over-explaining himself and over-thinking things in thread as his town game.
Killjoy is giving me town vibes as well. More on a gut level so far though.
SNL has been town in the two games I played with him and he feels different to me so far this game. In those games he seemed bad, but genuine. Here it seems like he was trying to seem active out the gate, but it felt forced, like he didn't actually have a goal in mind other than to appear to be doing something. Leaning scum here.
Re: Rhand v Generic
- Rhand seems to be on his back foot a bit which I haven't seen from either town or scum Rhand, but my sample size is small (1 of each I think?). My gut is leaning scum for a seeming lack of conviction on his stance with Generic. He seems a bit off balance in his replies to Generic's attacks, which says scum being cautious to me. I'm not super confident in that read though, but have Rhand leaning scum based on the interaction.
- Generic is being really aggressive and overly confident, which I typically equate to a null tell and let it be more of a meta call with a slight lean to scum for people I haven't played with. Most of his points are actually clicking with me though and I'm not seeing the scum angle here. He prides himself on being devious and hard to read though, so a play isn't out of the question, but it's something I'm not worried about at this point. Putting him in the town pile for now.
Vote: SNL
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- I liked his train of thought to find Shock towny. Seemed like he was thinking about it from a town mindset.
- He said something similar to me about SNL. Something along the lines of not seeing typical poor town SNL as being alarming.
- And I think there was one other thing, let me check...Oh yeah, I agreed with his stance on coaching not really being a thing. That's probably a null tell though.