@Hawk: I can't figure out what you're trying to say in the first place, probably because you asked if we noticed anything 'interesting' about it. And the latter post looks very similar to an early game post of yours that I read, so...
It's just something I wanted to note, I'm still reading over your posts trying to get a deeper underlying concept from them, check your ties to existing dead scum, etc.
If Karn is somehow town and this ends up being you vs. LNG tomorrow and I'm still around, I don't want to be responsible for making the wrong decision and causing the town to lose. And if you're town, being snippety doesn't help you. Maybe you should try pointing out WHY you don't like these posts of lng's, rather than making completely vague statements that look like you just want us to do the work for you. I mean like..if you're town, the game may very well depend on your ability to defend yourself tomorrow AND your ability to help us understand why you think lng is scum.
And the same goes to LNG. Ideally we're just going to lynch Karn and the game is going to end. But if that doesn't happen, whichever one of you is town is going to somewhat have to take the game on your shoulders and make us make the right lynch.
@Karn: LNG is saying that your claim is not believable because, if it were, you would have figured out long before today that you couldn't pick up the bomb and give it to some townie. And he's right. After Day 2, we had an outed Doc, a vig that counterclaimed an SK, said SK was dead, and 2 mafia were also dead. If you had even talked to the Mod and figured out earlier that you couldn't pass items, and you didn't want to pick up a bomb because no one was ever going to NK you anyway, that would be one thing. But you clearly didn't 'learn' this until today, which makes your claim look like an absolute fabrication. Whether you are town or scum, your own play is unquestionably what did you in here. Fortunately, it seems far more likely that you are scum than town.
@Rhand: That is a good point. Hawk has been more active/involved today than previously in this game, and some of his posts do feel like they have the 'ring of truth' to them. I'll keep this in mind as I continue to re-read. Even though I really feel like this is all for nothing and the game is just going to end when we lynch Karn anyway. :/
I was waiting to use my ability because I expected more items. I didn't expect this ability to be in the game if there were going to be 5 townie flips in a row that didn't have a single item on them - even some of the people with abilities didn't drop items.
Cyan, I'd like you to explain in depth (at least a paragraph) with actual reasons - instead of "he's scummy" - on myself, LnGrrrR, and Hawk. Then I want you to look back at it and tell me why the points against me are more damning than the points against LnGrrrR and Hawk.
I've never been one to accept 'because I'm bad' as an argument for scummy behavior, sorry.
If I feel like a case against LNG or Hawk is much stronger than a case against you, I'll happily lay it out. I wouldn't hold your breath on this being the case, because your claim/according behavior is really damning in my eyes,
Analysis of Shockwave posts that stand out for me upon looking back:
I am curious about the list myself, but along with the read reasons I would like to see what your thoughts of the Rhand wagon are. Why so bad in your opinion? I'm not claiming its great mind you, mainly curious.
Well this post is awful, as noted previously by Rhand. The wording of it is just like..what the actual ****.
For those wondering I don't want Rhand using something that I have done as town or scum to prove me town. I was aware at least one part was flawed, and figured at least test if the other had some credibility. I'm not sure I like setup gaming for a town tell of mine either as in Star Wars I used some to press a bus on a failing teammate, as it was semi-open.
And no, it's not that I don't want to be easy to read as town, I just want the reasons to be based on something solid.
Getting back into things and will get a list going.
This post just feels like it is trying WAY too hard. Also, we'll see if anything ever comes of the promised 'list'.
If you're using that, Rhand to town clear me... Ouch. I'm in trouble for having a clear from you Rhand.
Once again..trying way too hard. I'm actually having a hard time seeing a player making this statement PERIOD, but here it is right in front of me, so it must have happened.
A breakdown of Niv's posts:
Post 50: Starts out with a RVS style self-vote, before getting serious. Starts out with saying why he would vote me for reasons including not wanting to vote based on 13 alone, but of tone change in 22 for over the top panic over four quick votes that he feels are justified and missing voting reasons. Also is highly confused about the nature of why I would ask such questions in 29 and follows up with a question.
He then goes on to SNL, in retrospect this reads like coaching hidden in plain sight as I can't figure out if this is an accusation or accusing a player of being bad town.
IGMEOY's Hans for bandwagon vote and selective reading. Doesn't state outright whether this is scummy or not.
Highly critical of Rhand for his accusation of me protecting Cyan. Rants about it and how bad it is.
Critical of Wheat as well for his treatment of Cyan and silver rage (two different subjects).
Votes Rhand.
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I'm not familiar with Niv, but based on this I feel these things:
Myself: Accusatory, though confused why I would ask certain questions. You decide what this means.
SNL: Odd response that really doesn't go anywhere besides pointing out poor play. No indication of town or scum feelings. Coaching in plain sight?
Hans: Could be a bluff, but doesn't feel scum on scum.
Rhand: rants on and on about one point. Would scum be this openly critical of a teammate? I don't think so, but don't know if Niv has a history of bussing.
Wheat: Critical of Wheat. Seems to be a strike at credibility more than anything else.
Cyan: seems to have a bit of a defensive streak towards him. Why? Currently uncertain, but it wasn't a clear called defense.
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I think SNL deserves a look and maybe some pressure.
Vote: SelesnyaNewLife
With current knowledge, this post is a huge red flag. Provides a summary of Niv's post, and ultimately...votes SNL. This is a giant tell. Especially since he (sort of) accuses Niv of coaching SNL, but in the end doesn't vote Niv.
Karn started suspecting me from my post 13, being as he claimed nervous and over explanatory, Generic. Don't make me pull up the list of actions up until a certain point in Sesame Street. That's over explanatory, Karn!
I can kind of see what you're thinking with voting Seppel, but man does the way he play make it hard to follow his thoughts in any way to get a good string of thoughts on what he is thinking. Not a fan of his style, but from last Night's results scum thought he was onto something.
For the record those he was interested in were Killjoy (his thoughts scum or idiot), SNL (scummy), Antny (Flipped Scum), Niv (Flipped Scum). So far the only people who have votes him were myself (serious, lack of explanation) and Rhand (RVS, Iso substitute).
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I do think it might not hurt to look at Niv's interactions, who interacted with him and who he interacted with.
This though, is very much a pro-town post. It has many underpinings of confidence in it that I can't see someone like Shockwave giving off if he was part of a scum team that lost 2 members in the first day.
This also reminds me that, re: Karn, I absolutely hated the way that Karn tried to lay the Seppel kill on Shockwave's doorstep. Even on a scumteam of(at the time) TK, Niv, and Shockwave, there is no way that Shock would have meaningful influence on NK decisions. This 100% reads like Karn trying to set Shock up.
I think I have a clear view on how you see Antny now. Kind of has me hoping he'll flip soon, but I won't push for a lynch.
I still have my doubts that Killjoy is scum based on his reasons for voting TK earlier, I could see a scum reason for not seeing the whole picture of Niv's earlier post, cherry picking to either get a poor vote on a teammate, or to generate some heat on a town player.
For reference, I haven't got a set opinion on Niv, but am looking through his posts now to get a better look at his mindset.
I'm not sure that I see Shock making this post about his scumbuddy, especially considering that he just ended up voting him shortly thereafter anyway.
I think while we wait for Antny we should look into other lynching options even if it is mine. Antny has only three or four posts total if I remember right and not a lot of interactions. I suppose I can see it from the angle that we can look at how others reacted to his posts, but I feel working up cases on others would give us more to work on for the following Days.
Let the pink slip stick.
This post seems completely hollow. Like..would anyone of any alignment, on Day 1, really suggest themself as a lynch over another player? More than anything else, it seems like he is just trying to divert attention ANYWHERE other than Antny.
I am in agreement there.
Seppel, could you at least provide something for us on Niv?
This post highlights an undertone of Shock REALLY wanting Seppel to post more. This makes me further doubt that he would then want to kill Seppel at night. It just makes him look so bad. I guess he could have just panicked because Seppel was 'onto him', but I'm skeptical.
Alright, back in action.
Past couple of days have been stressful in RL, but I won't get into details now. And also must have had four or five shots worth of Triple-sec (orange flavored liquor) last night, so I was buzzed and quite unable to put things together.
General observations on behavior:
Generic: Seems to be enjoying things, a small push of mischief in his posts, is giving me vibes of Sesame Street Generic, but want to check content just to be sure.
Rhand: I agree with 77Hawk7 that he seems a bit more assertive in the way he opened up this game. I can't make a good judgement on alignment based on this alone, but it gets me wondering.
Seppel: short posts... Seems to be hiding compared to other games I've seen Seppel in.
Cantrip: Serious and straight forward, the line of questioning put forth seems a lot more cohesive compared to his Day 1, and only Day, in Sesame Street Mafia.
Sir Karn: Doesn't seem to be attempting to drive discussion as hard as previous games I've been in with him. I have seen him be quite assertive in scum roles as far as discussion goes with both Dinosaur mafia and Sesame Street as examples, so gut feeling is Karn is likely town, but needs further testing.
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I'll say this right now, it does seem Generic is goading Rhand into a posting stand-off, but I feel this is distracting from discussions opening up. Wouldn't hurt to work around them if necessary.
Still not sure what Hawk expected us to notice about this post.
Onto LNG..
Hello all! I'm replacing Shockwave. I haven't had time to read the thread due to RL work. Would anyone care to give me a summary of any predecessor's play (ie am I considered townie, scummy, by whom etc)?
I don't like this post, because ultimately these things shouldn't matter to LNG if LNG is replacing in as town.
Are you assuming a vig, or an SK?
Can't figure out of this is just playing dumb or not. If LNG replaced in as scum, would he really not know that the scumteam tried to NK me? Maybe he just didn't have access to the scum's action history? But if that were the case, would he even bring it up? He probably would, given that he seems to be the inquisitive sort.
What exactly about me not paying attention comes from a scummy mindset?
If you are trying to get an easy mislynch before I have had a chance to read; I don't think it is going to work.
This seems defensive, but in an honest way.
Reading now, a few questions:
How many claims do we have out there already? Lots of PR discussion going on.
@Karn, I can't remember, but weren't you annoyed a few games ago because scum kept false-claiming vig? If so, what do you think of Rhand's vig claim?
If he were really reading the thread he could just..keep track of claims as he gets to them? Also the question to Karn seems like a super-lob that is just trying to get someone else to throw dirt on a player that is otherwise virtually confirmed as town.
So, 5 scum and a SK in a 16 person game? Seems balanced.
I asked because I want to know how much work I had to put into this game from the jump.
LNG is referring to Karn saying that the remaining scumteam is Generic, KJ, and LNG, with Hawk as possible. As an aside, note that Generic is alive now and confirmed town, KJ is dead and confirmed town(we can forgive Karn for that one kinda), and the other 2 are still alive and unknown. This looks really poor for Karn, because it means that he has done nothing to get anyone lynched until yesterday. That or he just really sucks at it.
LNG's response ALSO is bad though, because it doesn't actually say(even remotely) 'I'm not scum', it is just a complete and utter strawman.
It's not really a counterclaim. I mean, people are assuming there's a vig out there due to the NK. But let's hypothesize you are scum; you know that actually was the NK. But you can use the confusion to your advantage, claim vig, and avoid scrutiny.
The reason I asked Karn is because he has seen that in a few games, and called the bluff correctly (while the rest of town just accepted the bluffer as obvtown). If he trusts you, I'm willing to go with that for now.
Still not actually caught up, also apparently thinks that Rhand is an idiot.
It's fascinating that Karn was calling LNG scum shortly before this, but LNG is willing to 'trust Karn's read' on Rhand being the Vig. If it were possible I would think that this, combined with the 'oh really 5 scum plus an SK' dialogue means that they're BOTH scum. But I super doubt that is the case. Still, it's very difficult to see a town LNG just blankly trusting someone that was just calling him scum. Like how could you NOT be doubting Karn's judgment here if you are town, LNG?
Has Cantrip claimed?
I am fine with being shot, if need be. But I only endorse it if you guys have the game state locked down. My reread is taking longer than I thought and I don't want to be a drag on town or a late mislynch.
Is there a valid reason we haven't done a mass claim yet, btw? It feels like half the playerbase has claimed already anyways.
'Offers' himself up to be vigged, for whatever nonsensical reason. Also tries to get a massclaim. Not sure what to make of this.
@Hunger, fair enough. I will fight, but right now there's a lot of mechanics discussion flowing around, which is making it a bit hard to get involved, hence why I am trying to read up.
Request for a mass claim makes more sense now.
I'm ambivalent towards a mass claim.
...Or not. I don't buy 'yeah I don't care one way or the other' shortly after you ask for something to happen and explain WHY you wanted it to happen.
Why? If you are town, then you should want votes on you for analysis.
In reference to hawk offering to be shot. Lol? This is rich coming from the guy that himself recently said, I quote, 'I am fine with being shot if need be'. This is a comically large oversight on LNG's part.
@Cyan, I know my play has sucked a bit since replacing in. My PC died at home so I am limited to phone posting, which is ok for posting as the game goes on but sucks for rereading. Of all the people posting toDay, the only person giving me scummy vibes is Hawk, mainly for his attack on me early and then the "hammer" gambit. Not sure if I buy that.
I mean, why wouldn't you come clean with that the Day after I didn't work out? Speaking of which, did anyone call him on that?
So now he is suspicious of Hawk. The same hawk that just offered to be vigged. Which LNG also essentially did. There is a ridiculously large disconnect here. Like..Grand Canyon sized.
I did. "Hey guys there was this one game in which I defended scum, and I was only one of two people, but I was town and the other guy defending the scum was scum too! Therefore since there were only two people defending scum!Antny in this game, and I know I am town, then Killjoy must be obvscum!"
The amount of conf bias there is pretty high. I don't like that justification for a wagon hop.
WG ultimately flipped town, but, this comes across as sound reasoning to me.
I'm fine with getting this ball, whatever the heck it does.
And yeah, living a whole Day after being the NK seems like a wonky role. I mean, what would happen in LyLo? Scum think they have the game in bag but on no wait they don't?
Should we mass claim at this point, to see if anyone else has a power that doesn't involve an item?
Hard to believe he would be 'fine' with getting the ball when he didn't know what it does. This comes across very much as bravado. Also tries to get a mass claim to happen again.
Doesn't believe KJ's claim, but I can't hold that one against him, because that claim was luls. Weird that he doesn't recognize how powerful it would be on a townie if real though, especially considering that he thinks Janitor is super-powered(pro-tip: Janitor is a super swingy role that usually does almost nothing because scum don't want to gamble on it).
Weren't you in Apocalypse mafia? If so you should know this answer, but not knowing about a flip messed with town's ability to figure out mass claims and "break" the game. It becomes guesswork and allows scum to hide in false claims.
What is Cantrip? It would be nice if someone could put down a list or something; it seems everyone has items/powers. All I know about Cantrip is that if he dies, something happens.
I have been mentioning that I get weird vibes from Wheat for awhile now. If you end up shooting me, I want my thoughts out there. I am also not a fan of Hawk FWIW.
I would like to know why you think that is scummy though. Interesting swerve, considering you have concerns about Wheat also.
Besides TK, does anyone else think that KJ's power as described would be too strong on scum?
Really does think the Janitor role is great. Asks for clarification on CM, which is completely reasonable. Tells us to remember his thoughts on WG and Hawk if LNG ends up getting day-vigged. This still seems like bravado.
So, Wheat sees abilities and not items?
Agreed with Hunger that if Whea is super bussing his teammate, he probably will skate.
@Mod, Votecount?
I still don't like any of Hawk's posts, but this last page has been more dumb than scum. Barely.
Doesn't want to let go of WG despite WG being super obvtown at this point. But does hedge his way toward Hawk at the end..
Next few posts are from today, no need to summarize them.
He didn't follow up on that anti-Hawk bit at all, and still hasn't. That's unfortunate.
Ultimately I don't know what to make here. LNG has some really scummy posts, some really town posts, but mostly just alot of posts that make me scratch my head. I can definitely see him being scum, but I could also see him being town. Certainly, I don't feel as strongly about him being scum as Rhand appears to.
Hawk..man talk about a billion 1-2 line posts. Analyzing this is going to be completely miserable.
Early in the game, Hawk seems genuinely interested in engaging other players. He directly probes Karn, Niv, and myself within his first few posts. This looks good for him, though how much he continues to do so(especially from Day 2 onward once a couple of scum are dead) will be very relevant.
He seems particularly interested in wanting my insight on Rhand v. Generic. I don't know what to make of that, and neither does someone else that asks Hawk about it. Hawk's response is:
My input is already there, but I often think rhand is scum. I currently have cyan as null and I feel like his analysis is good. This will accomplish two things, get me a better read on cyan and get a second perspective on this 1v1 thing.
This is a completely reasonable response.
Next Hawk asks Hunger to elaborate on KJ. Then he later says Seppel's posts are bad, then later still votes Hunger. I don't like this, because I think Hunger read strongly town from the outset of the game.
Shortly thereafter he unvotes with the cryptic statement 'this isn't going the way I want to, I blame Niv'. I don't feel good about this, mostly because Niv flipped scum.
Shortly thereafter, he asks TK for his thoughts on the antny wagon. This looks awful for Hawk because TK and Antny were both scum.
I felt like this part needed quoting:
@wheat
It feels like there's were people that aren't fully caught up and I was going to see if I could bait a scum in to hopping on a counter wagon.
everything hunger has said has been accurate. I can't vote anty yet because I'm captain hammer.
I assume this is his explanation of why he voted Hunger. It feels hollow. And this post makes me feel like him telling us that his claim was to 'try to draw out power' was a complete fabrication. That train of thought here just makes no sense. It essentially says 'I can't vote this scum because of..hold on I'm going to make up a reason'.
It is extremely difficult to see this coming from a town perspective for me. Like..almost impossible level difficult. We'll see what else happens.
Nothing else relevant happens during Day 1. Important to note is that Hawk was never, ever meaningfully involved in the Antny wagon, other than asking one of Antny's scumbuddies what he thought about it.
Start of Day 2. Wants Generic to explain why the Antny? flip makes Rhand scummy. Votes Generic for this. This feels like an overreaction considering Generic v. Rhand Day 1.
Later asks if anyone else feels like 'Generic bussed Antny and it is blatantly obvious'. This feels like revisionist history to me.
In his next post he clarifies that he actually just wanted Rhand to respond. Which makes one wonder why he didn't just post the question directly to Rhand, especially given that he had no problem directly posing questions to people earlier in the game.
Later asks for Cantrip to weigh in on all of this. Not sure why he picked CM(we'll see if that gets explained later), and so much for 'Really I wanted Rhand to respond'. Apparently what he really meant was '**** you Generic, you scummy mcscummerson'.
Shortly thereafter, he makes a legit push against Generic, wanting him to explain his confirmation bias against Rhand, and says that he won't be moving his vote until this happens. This doesn't strike me as particularly pro-town behavior. If Generic is scum, hawk shouldn't unvote him whether he explains this or not. If Generic is not scum(from hawk's perspective), hawk should not be voting for him period.
I want you to answer a question that TK also just asked and you still won't answer. Stop strawmaning.
Still talking to Generic..I think. This post is probably a pro-town point for Hawk, because it's unlikely that Hawk just reached out to his only remaining scumbuddy and pulled him into this. It's possible, but like..not at all likely.
Your answer isn't sufficient. You say that rhand is scum because he waited for a vote count before he voted anty and the at he stil trying to show that you were scum. If memory recalls, you viciously trying to get rhand lynched is why he was probably suspicious of you. Now show some real evidence why antsy flip makes rhand scum.
This is definitely not pro-town for hawk, however. This post strongly implies that hawk KNOWS that Rhand is town. Literally the whole post is contingent upon this being accepted fact. Because if Rhand is anything but town here, Generic's behavior is 100% reasonable.
This is the worst post I've seen from anyone in my individual post analysis thus far. It feels very much like an inadvertent slip of inside knowledge.
Hawk's next post, where he declares Hunger and WG as his two biggest town reads(Rhand isn't even an afterthought here) seems to damn him further because of that last post.
In his next meaningful post, Hawk reaches out to Voxx for 'halp'. This seems odd, considering that Voxx is someone that he really shouldn't have a read on at this point, and hasn't expressed a read on before this.
Next, hawk tells us that he wants to lynch cantrip. This is really out of nowhere. His reasoning is solid, but it's still very random.
Next hawk tells us he is going to 'hang out and wait for a claim'. Hunger asks him about this, but hawk never answers. A bunch of nothing happens and then hawk decides to vote for Cantrip.
Later hawk tells us that he thinks fulcrum is town(despite 'wanting an snl claim'). I don't really get it.
In his next post, hawk says that he needs to look into fulcrum further to figure out why fulcrum is attacking me(spoiler alert: because she was scum and foolish).
hawk has a problem with CM's claim, assessing that it could just be a cover and wanting CM vigged. This is a fine request to make, but could just be fishing. It's hard to tell.
So yeah you shot void who was our cop in hayate. The good news is you actually do believe this mentality which shows you are supporting your town mindset, even if I don't agree.
I still don't know if lynching cyan is correct without a CC.
Here hawk determines that he thinks that fulcrum is town, and floats out the idea of lynching an uncounterclaimed Doc. Obviously I find this to be a huge point against him, because that is just something that you don't do unless you have an INCREDIBLY strong scum read on someone(I have tried to lynch an uncounterclaimed Doc twice in my hundreds of mafia games played..once I was correct and the other time I was not). It's definitely not something that you just toss out there casually.
Next, hawk gets distracted(I guess?) by shockwave and wants to know if hunger/karn still want to lynch him. Not sure why he suddenly cares what Karn has to say or what happened to WG being one of his top two town reads.
As of his next post he has decided that I am not being lynched without a counterclaim. I don't know what would cause this change of heart if he were town.
So why does can trips defense make him sacrificing town instead of self defeating scum?
Good question re: Cantrip.
I'd be alright with a generic lynch. When I accused him of conf biasing rhand, which he has used as a counter argument in the past, he just smoke screened, refused to answer, omgus voted me and then proceed to ignore me.
He already claimed VT so it's a safe pick.
hawk wanting to lynch Generic, whom he has been arguing with forever, is reasonable here. I hate the 'he already claimed VT' hedge alot though. Also he is still voting Cantrip as of this post from what I can tell, despite not having talked about him in awhile.
Next hawk remembers that he's supposed to hammer. I feel like this 'further lie' doesn't bode well for him. He already didn't get NKed, and with me having just claimed Doc, he was extremely unlikely to get targeted next. If he were really just gambiting as town earlier, I would expect him to just let the issue drop or come clean, not continue the lie for no reason.
Over his next few posts, hawk dig's in on his anti-Generic stance, and does so in a very town way. Especially this:
If you weren't sure about my alignment, there is no reason why you would ignore me. You would want to engage me to figure out my alignment.
This is very much a town mentality.
hawk next explains why he wants to lynch Cantrip(I guess we've moved on past Generic now) but not Voxx. His explanation is reasonable on both counts.
Sorry, this isn't the hunger games.
I think Generic is the safest lynch but I don't know if it's the correct one.
unvote
This seems like an honest assessment, but doesn't have to be a pro-town one. But it could be. :/
Hawk continues the 'gotta hammer' lie later. At this point it's not a tell, because he is basically stuck in it for today. He would get insta-lynched if he 'came clean' this shortly after his last 'gotta hammer' post.
Also generic has caught me plenty as scum. And played against me with him scum and me town.
I think it's more likely that he is scum than him losing the ability to read me.
Reasonable assessment of why he doesn't trust Generic.
Next post, hawk says that Fulcrum should claim. By his next post after this, fulcrum has claimed vig, and hawk had absolutely nothing to say about it. Considering that he 'mulled over' wanting to lynch me in spite of my not being counterclaimed, this seems pretty silly. Vig is a much easier claim to fake(particularly by an sk) than Doc can ever be.
After this he is back to wanting to lynch Generic. I have a problem with this at this point, because hawk is aware that cantrip has asked to die, and previously expressed, and defended, suspicion on Cantrip. Logically he should be pushing for a Cantrip lynch here.
hawk's next post is not until the next day period. LNG asks for a summary of Shock's play, and hawk's response is 'Karn wanted you dead based on the seppel NK'.
This strikes me as very off. It doesn't actually provide LNG with any useful information, and just makes Karn(whom previously hawk listed as a town read) look bad.
Hawk goes VLA for awhile, but tells us to read a 'good post' of Voxx. This seems like an honest/town moment for him.
Later, hawk goes back to voting Generic now that he has new ammunition(Rhand being essentially confirmed town now). The problem with this is that hawk was already(even if he didn't realize it) more or less treating rhand as confirmed town before this.
Next, hawk finally 'admits' that he just faked having a hammer ability. This is a null tell, because he really couldn't carry it on further beyond this. After this I state that I'm going to re-read him, and he summarizes his posts as 'scummy actions with town motives'. This is a decently accurate assessment, but I don't like that he threw it out there like that.
hawk spends the next couple of posts explaining why he faked having a hammer ability. And when put on the defensive by Rhand, he stands up for himself. But he has apparently forgotten about lynching Generic now(despite having just talked about him in his previous post) and wants to lynch LNG or KJ.
hawk asks to be vigged shortly after this. I don't know what to make of this, because...I never know what to make of people asking to die. I'm a sucker for the 'Hero Call', and I always feel like they could be bluffing. His lists his 3 remaining scum-reads as LNG, KJ, and Generic, with the disclaimer that we should 'take a better look at Karn' if Generic is town.
Before this, hawk was claiming Karn as strongly town, and I don't see why Generic's alignment would affect that. Sometimes it seems like hawk just doesn't (at all) remember his previous posts.
The rest of hawk's posts don't really matter much. Except for:
I'm pretty sure the game is over. Karns attitude was very similar to when we were masons which is why I thought he was town. I didn't want to point this out in case I pointed the scum to a power role.
I was wrong about generic but he was also wrong about me even though I'm not confirmed. At least we pulled our collective heads out of our Butts to lynch correctly. Smile
If wheat was scum, he would have still kept the option of lynching me open after mislynching.
With lngrr not having items it looks like there is no other possibility.
I don't give hawk as much credit for this post as Rhand does. Yes it appears town, but at this point all hawk has to do to win(given that WG was still alive here and KJ was very obviously 100% getting lynched yesterday) is appear more town than Karn and LNG. And it doesn't matter if hawk 'townclears' Karn, because, by process of elimination, if hawk convinces us that HE is town..then Karn will get lynched anyway, without hawk having to be involved.
Ultimately, hawk is harder to assess than lng. Whereas LNG had many 'in the middle' posts, hawk is either very town or very scum in general.
Having read both, it's really hard for me to say which one I feel more strongly is scum. If I absolutely had to pick one right now to be scum, I would say..lng. hawk just has more posts that come from a clearly town perspective.
But Karn is still my #1 suspect, and it's not particularly close. If I absolutely have to, I will do one of these assessments of him, but I really don't think that should be necessary. I certainly don't expect to learn anything that will make me want to lynch lng over him today.
Hopefully we hear from Generic soon, and then we can move on.
Thanks for that Cyan. I have got a few different opinions here and there, but I want to see Hawk respond first before discussing them.
I have been thinking more about the Wheat death. Scum couldn't know that I still had a shot of something, so they obviously assumed Wheat was our last active PR. But... Why kill him? LnGrrrR was already checked and has no items. Could it be that the last scum does use items? And therefor is Karn or Hawk and not LnGrrrR?
I'm gonna try the modgaming approach and list all PR's and vanilla's and try to establish if the last scum should be goon or PR.
@Cyan, I trusted Karn's judgment because Karn is pretty good at reading people in the games I have played with him, plus I you to he would've been so sure about Rhand's towniness unless it was backed up by something I missed in-thread.
Also, re:vigging, the difference between Hawk and I is that he has been in the game since the beginning, and so votes on him should "matter" more. For better or worse, a player jumping into a slot on Day 3 or later makes the votes on him a bit more confusing, since you are voting for two personalities instead of one.
Finally, if I was town under pressure, I would know I had to start responding to arguments from the jump. I can't defend and read at the same time.
My main experience with the Janitor role is Apocalypse (IIRC, there might have been one other game) so you can see why I think it's OP.
Past couple of days have been stressful in RL, but I won't get into details now. And also must have had four or five shots worth of Triple-sec (orange flavored liquor) last night, so I was buzzed and quite unable to put things together.
General observations on behavior:
Generic: Seems to be enjoying things, a small push of mischief in his posts, is giving me vibes of Sesame Street Generic, but want to check content just to be sure.
Rhand: I agree with 77Hawk7 that he seems a bit more assertive in the way he opened up this game. I can't make a good judgement on alignment based on this alone, but it gets me wondering.
Seppel: short posts... Seems to be hiding compared to other games I've seen Seppel in.
Cantrip: Serious and straight forward, the line of questioning put forth seems a lot more cohesive compared to his Day 1, and only Day, in Sesame Street Mafia.
Sir Karn: Doesn't seem to be attempting to drive discussion as hard as previous games I've been in with him. I have seen him be quite assertive in scum roles as far as discussion goes with both Dinosaur mafia and Sesame Street as examples, so gut feeling is Karn is likely town, but needs further testing.
----------
I'll say this right now, it does seem Generic is goading Rhand into a posting stand-off, but I feel this is distracting from discussions opening up. Wouldn't hurt to work around them if necessary.
Anyone notice anything interesting about this post?
I think I have a clear view on how you see Antny now. Kind of has me hoping he'll flip soon, but I won't push for a lynch.
I still have my doubts that Killjoy is scum based on his reasons for voting TK earlier, I could see a scum reason for not seeing the whole picture of Niv's earlier post, cherry picking to either get a poor vote on a teammate, or to generate some heat on a town player.
For reference, I haven't got a set opinion on Niv, but am looking through his posts now to get a better look at his mindset.
This is eye opening as well.
In 1 post, assuming if he is scum, he talks about only people that are town, in the other it's all scum +killjoy.
It seems like both lngrrr and myself gave karn a town pass. Mine was based on very intimate interaction when we were masons reflecting similar action throughout this entire game. His is based off the player which could be either alignment and hasn't read past night 1...
It seems like both lngrrr and myself gave karn a town pass. Mine was based on very intimate interaction when we were masons reflecting similar action throughout this entire game. His is based off the player which could be either alignment and hasn't read past night 1...
See, posts like this are why you come off as scummy to me. It's like you are trying to dig at every comment I make to twist it into something scummy.
Oh and the reason Karn got a "town pass" is because I was reading you and Wheat as scummy. Karn didn't stand out as scummy to my mind until his claim. Like, I don't see why he wouldn't just grab the bomb, equip it, and then try to claim power to draw a NK, or at least hope that he was on the right track and scum aimed for him. That, in addition to that fitting in well with TK's "big/little" theory about powers. (Thief = Big, Replacement = Little). If not for those two pieces giving me pause, I would be trying to ram this lynch straight down your throat.
It seems like both lngrrr and myself gave karn a town pass. Mine was based on very intimate interaction when we were masons reflecting similar action throughout this entire game. His is based off the player which could be either alignment and hasn't read past night 1...
See, posts like this are why you come off as scummy to me. It's like you are trying to dig at every comment I make to twist it into something scummy.
You past karn off as town without reading the game. That reflects poorly on you.
It seems like both lngrrr and myself gave karn a town pass. Mine was based on very intimate interaction when we were masons reflecting similar action throughout this entire game. His is based off the player which could be either alignment and hasn't read past night 1...
See, posts like this are why you come off as scummy to me. It's like you are trying to dig at every comment I make to twist it into something scummy.
You past karn off as town without reading the game. That reflects poorly on you.
I already explained why. Karn mentioned that Rhand was town, IIRC, due to a vig claim. I mentioned that I knew already that Karn hates false claim vigs (due to having seen a scum false claim vig at least twice). So if Karn, of all people, was willing to accept Rhand's claim, that was good enough for me at the time. (I found out later that. Rhand CC'd Fulcrum.)
But while we are speaking about "not reading the game", what about the Day where TK was lynched? Where you just stopped in and wanted to vote me and Killjoy without even paying attention to the thread? Or is it ok for you not to read the thread but not me?
Really early vote on Shockwave. Provides explanation for it, etc.
56 is not town Generic. He only plays cautiously when he's scum.
When he's town he doesn't give a ***** what people think his pay makes him look like because he has his own self- reassurance of the fact that he's town and he can comfortably blame everyone else for mislynching him.
But after being run up so many times on Day 1 on this site, he - as scum - has calmed down and tried to be less in- your-face so he doesn't get run up and implode (because he imposes really easy when he gets run up).
Basically: Town!Generic would not just be "sitting back and watching." He would be hopping in proper and not afraid at all of starting a long-winded fight calling tons of attention to himself.
Looks like we're onto Generic now. This stance feels much more definitive than his vote on shockwave, but he doesn't move his vote.
Because saying "I have these two gut reads" is super aggressive and takes a lot of risk and pulls a ton of attention to yourself. Rolleyes
I think Killjoy is scum.
Rebuttals Generic, randomly says that he thinks KJ is scum.
Misrepresentation?
Apparently you haven't seen an actual aggressive Generic.
Saying "I have two gut reads, and I'm going to vote one." Is extremely cautious and unaggressive by his standards.
I find it hilarious that Generic immediately started his forced "1v1 me bro" garbage right after I pointed that out too. Yet people like Niv still want to twist the story to say I'm misrepresenting.
Solidifies his anti-Generic stance. Note that he is still voting Shockwave as of this post. This feels insincere. He has put much more time and effort into explaining why Generic is scum, and if he were being truthful, I would expect him to be voting accordingly.
Also randomly calls out Niv here.
Once again, Generic, where my vote is doesn't really matter before the lynch as long as I vocalize who I'm willing to vote. How many times do you need to be told that until you stop saying trash?
Presumably this is in response to Generic pointing out the disparity in Karn's voting Shockwave. Karn defends this in a surprising way. I say surprising because he is woefully incorrect here, and I suspect that he is just blustering here. Because I can't accept that anyone actually thinks that it's okay for townies to be voting one guy while constantly attacking another like this.
@Whoever asked me what I think of Niv: He's scum.
Shockwave's 202 where he gives "observations" is all purely bad attempts at metagaming off of one or two examples, and he doesn't provide any actual analysis of gameplay other than comparing it to that extremely limited sample pool for each person (where he doesn't even have at least one game of each alignment for most people). There is no scumhunting and even with the bad metagaming that he tries to pass off as good, he sits on the fence with most people.
He is attempting to look productive while doing barely above nothing.
Says Niv is scum. No actual effort on that front.
Provides some insight into why he thinks Shock is scum. This explanation feels forced, particularly in comparison to his much more understandable and better explained distrust of Generic. I don't know what to make of this inconsistency right now.
Hey look, Seppel still hasn't done anything and promises to not do anything.
This is a really odd line to take for someone that was directly calling Niv scum in the post immediately before this.
Hey look, on top of everything else I've listed about Shockwave this game, he's now avoiding talking about the game and instead voting Seppel and yelling at him for posting a link that Seppel put NSFW next to.
'Everything else' feels like a generous assessment for what was really like 1.5(max) valid points against shockwave.
Shockwave and Niv for sure.
Probably Killjoy and Generic.
Possibilities to cover either of the probablies (or if the team is bigger): Hawk and Antny.
Cyan, Hunger, and Wheat are definitely town. Hansanator and Rhand are likely town.
I don't recall Seppel, TK, Cantrip, or SNL providing anything of worth in this game.
Barely even mentions Antny, which was the only relevant wagon at the time. Lists Shockwave and Niv as the two best scum candidate. The fact that Niv flipped scum would look great for Karn if he didn't just seem to be consistently including Niv as an afterthought while actually trying to (sort of) get Shock lynched.
Can we lynch shock or Niv pls.
Still NOTHING to say re: Antny.
End of Day 1. Karn looks as scummy as possible throughout this day. He completely 100% ignored the Antny wagon, instead pushing wagons on Generic(confirmed town) and Shockwave(alignment unknown, but clearly they're not both scum).
I called Shock and Niv as guaranteed yesterDay. Niv down; time for Shock.
Vote: Shockwave
In addition to my reasoning for voting Shockwave yesterDay:
Quote from scarbo »
Vote Count 1.5
Antny223's incipient modkill will occur in approximately 4 hours, at 1406 EDT. At that point Day 1 will end and Night 1 will begin.
Check out how Shockwave wanted to get rid of Seppel.
Check out who's dead. (Spoilers: It's Seppel)
The more I see this post, the more it feels like the biggest setup I have ever witnessed. And trying to say that you 'called' Niv is really rich. The way that you continually mentioned Niv while actually attacking someone else(and voting for a 3rd person part of the time) makes you look worse, not better.
Yo guys. Two of the towniest people in the game (Karn and Hunger) are voting shockwave. Maybe that says something.
Referring to yourself as one of the 'towniest people in the game' is a giant red flag for me. Especially when it's not even true.
Unvote.
Vote: Rhand
I like this.
@Generic: Why are you voting Wheat?
100% OMGUS vote on Rhand. You know, the Rhand that has been obvtown all game.
Oh god. This post is gross.
Quote from fulcrum »
Bleh. I'm stopping for the night at 176. Unexplained read list time.
What in the hell? Voxx wasn't even in the game at 176. He joined at 344.
You can go now.
Unvote.
Vote: Fulcrum
Super-overreactionary vote on fulcrum.
I vote Karn over this, and all he has to say is 'Bad'.
I'm sad because Cyan was just about my strongest town read yesterDay but now he's playing like horrible!scum.
Is there a recent vote count that I'm missing? If not, I want one.
I can't roll my eyes enough. This is the second time, in a short time period, that Karn has completely OMGUS'ed someone that voted him.
Shortly later, Karn votes me at the perfect time to force me to claim. Note that he has never provided anything even slightly resembling a reason as to why I might be scum.
Fulcrum vigged an obvtown in Hayate? lol
I can believe Cyan is Doc.
Unvote.
I feel like Rhand has gotten a lot townier over this exchange.
Vote: Fulcrum
Shock hasn't done anything. Would still lynch him.
Quickly distances himself from my wagon obviously, and makes sure to put some distance between himself and his terrible Rhand vote also.
And makes sure to keep mentioning Shock, even though he's not voting him and not actually trying to get him lynched.
I think you're both scum, so I'm down.
Nice pot-shot at Generic.
Karn is quick to accept fulcrum's claim. I don't really blame him, and this is consistent with how he reacted to my claim also. Null tell.
Somehow ends up voting Generic afterward. Unclear what happened to his 'really sure' read on Shockwave.
Karn doesn't have much of relevance to say while Rhand is counterclaiming fulcrum, just some meaningless banter. His next relevant question is Day 3 when he wants to know what I am planning on doing with my vig shot.
This attitude is a huge red flag to me. The only reason he should care is because I might die before getting to fire off said shot. But as someone that can pick up the shotgun from my corpse, even this shouldn't really matter to him. Yet another reason that I don't believe Karn's claim today. It looks much more like Karn simply wants bodies to pile up.
Also, Killjoy is scum.
Vote: Generic
And anyone who's about to say "wow he called Killjoy scum then voted Generic" can eat my ********. Because I know someone's going to say it (Generic...) and call me scum for it even though if they had stopped to think about it for TWO SECONDS they would realize that I have more than one scum read but I only have one vote.
I guess this a pro-town post? That or Karn is just supremely confident as scum, which I find hard to believe given that the scum team was down 2 at that juncture and had just missed their nightkill on me.
Funny that LnGrrrR's first post on replacement is literally saying "am I considered townie?"
Those are my final answers, and yes Regis, I'll take my million dollars.
So Karn's final answer scum team is 2 confirmed town and 2 unknown(to be fair, if Karn IS town, one of those 2 unknown is scum).
Ultimately this just looks completely like he is picking on the lowest hanging fruit. Also note that Karn was quick to call out Seppel and Cantrip early in the game for their lack of activity, but has never even mentioned anything about TK, who lurked literally until he died.
Karn's next couple of posts are anti-LNG, and are completely reasonable.
Hawk, you skipped Hunger's first two questions (in 957), but conveniently answered the third question in Hunger's series of posts.
Answer the first two now.
This also appears pro-town.
Later, Karn is all to willing to see Generic lynched/vigged/anything, despite the fact that literally no one has wanted to go along with this all game. At this point it just feels like a way for him to active lurk.
Later still, when TK comes under fire, Karn is quick to create a connection between Killjoy and TK. I'm not saying that we wouldn't have lynched KJ anyway(we would have), but Karn put considerable effort into making that happen on some very flimsy evidence.
I'm just going to stop at this point. Karn doesn't say/do anything after this that is overwhelmingly town. His claim sucks. Ecetera.
I've fully read over Karn like he requested. I now want to lynch him more than ever. I'm far more convinced that he is scum than I am hawk or LNG. I guess we'll sit around and do nothing while Generic is VLA for 48 hours, but I really just want to move forward with this lynch once Generic is back and gives his thoughts(or doesn't).
Ok. It should be Karn.
I don't really mind not waiting for Generic. Just give me a few hours to look at the setup.
(If scum wants Generic's thoughts blocked, they have to kill him. With that they would kill the least active of the confirmed towns. Which is not a bad thing)
TOWN (11)
VANILLA (4 or 5)
Generic
Voxx
Hunger
(Hawk)
(Lngr)
PR (item-based) (4)
Rhand
Cyan
Seppel
Cantrip
PR (not item-based) (2 or 3)
Wheat
KillJoy
Karn
NEUTRAL (not? item-based) (1)
Fulcrum
SCUM (4)
GOON (1 or 2)
Antny
PR (item-based) (1 or 2)
Niv
PR (not item-based) (1 or 2)
TK
With 'not item-based' I mean that the PR doesn't need an item to activate his power.
First thought: I think I have finally figured out why I've been thinking Seppel's role is so off. I think the bulletproof vest from TK has been stolen from him. Which is why I put TK in not item-based: I don't think the Thief started with an item. With me and Seppel having killing items, this game could've easily given scum an extra kill with the TK theft. We were lucky that he got the vest.
So I think that Seppel's role was supplying 1 bulletproof vest, 1 bomb and 1 gun.
Scum: I think there's a big chance for scum to have another item-based PR: town has an itemcop in Wheat. If there's no other items on scum, then Wheat has only 2 chances to actually find scum: 1 rug on Cantrip and 1 stolen item on TK. And I think Fulcrum didn't use items? (I don't remember her being found with one)
Town: with 5 vanilla's, just over 50% are PR's. With 4 vanilla's, it goes to over 60%. Both are viable and point to scum probably having more than 50% PR's as well. So again, I think the last scum is power.
Now, imagine Karn is the last item-based scum. And categorize Fulcrum as anti-town goon as that's what she basically seemed to be.
11 town vs 5 anti-town.
5 vanilla vs 2 goon
4 item PR vs 2 item PR
2 not item PR vs 1 not item PR
Sounds like a balanced setup to me: everything nicely divided by 2 and an extra vanilla thrown in for town.
LnGrrrR can't be item-based as he's checked by Wheat. Let's say LnGrrrR is scum non-item PR:
11 town vs 5 anti-town
4 vanilla vs 2 goon
4 item PR vs 1 item PR
3 not item PR vs 2 not item PR
This setup feels town-sided. I don't dig it. Especially with all the killing power on town's side.
Hawk can be item-based: he's never been checked.
11 town vs 5 anti-town
4 vanilla vs 2 goon
4 item PR vs 2 item PR
3 not item PR vs 1 not item PR
This seems to make a little more sense than LnGrrrR, but still feels town-sided.
***** ATTENTION ***** ALL AGENCIES ***** ATTENTION *****
ISIS HEREBY DISAVOWS AGENT SIR KARN WHO IS TO BE CONSIDERED
AN UNRELIABLE ASSET AND SECURITY RISK. ALL INTELLIGENCE FROM
SAID ASSET TAINTED. APPREHEND OR ELIMINATE AT OWN DISCRETION
THOUGH CAUTION ADVISED, ASSET HIGHLY TRAINED.
BURN NOTICE
BURN NOTICE
" ISIS: ALL OF OUR BUSINESS COMES FROM YOUR REFERRALS. "
Shockwave should have been lynched day 2. All of the people suspicious of him were town, he mentioned all town people and took fencey positions and made a post mentioning all scum while defending 2/3.
Shockwave should have been lynched day 2. All of the people suspicious of him were town, he mentioned all town people and took fencey positions and made a post mentioning all scum while defending 2/3.
This sounds like you are trying to give town a justification for lynching me.
Also, last I checked, Fulcrum was lynched D2. Upset about that?
If you had such a towny read on Karn, and a scum read on my slot, then why did you hammer instead of trying to press my lynch yesterDay?
Because all 3 confirmed town wanted to lynch karn and karn could have been scum. Yesterday I said if cyan wasn't pulling an elaborate doc gambit, that you or karn had to be scum. You ever catch up and actually read the entire game?
You couldn't just flip scum, could you Karn. Goddamnit.
I really want Generic to weigh in, I'm feeling a little gunshy after being so sure about Karn and being wrong. I can see either of you being scum and either of you being town. :/
Cyan, I think we've only played one game together where I was town and you thought I was scum. You should go glance at the games where I was scum and compare that to this game. Also lngrrr was scum in Battlestar galactica. I was scum in WWE, and a few other you could find in my stats.
His game play is very similar to battlestar as it is now, he is uninvolved and doesn't contribute and doesn't do anything. He managed to win by doing that so why would he adjust his play.
Then go look at my scum games, it's laughable how bad I am at scum. Please don't punt this game away.
1. 1 anty, 2 and 3 was a mix of cantrip and generic. Yesterday was lngrrr.
2. I suspected you as scum because I didn't get why you attacked rhand and went in to your 1v1, and you also committed confirmation bias which is something you've stood against before. I admit that I ended up tunneling.
3. Hawk, cause I like them. Also fly away from battle to not die.
4. Lngrr
5. Probably tyrion. But danerys, varus and aria should get honorable mentions.
6. I enjoy games with you, I've probably played with you and rhand more than anyone else on the site. I'm usually not very useful during day and you always mess with everyones head creating content while getting people to want you dead lol.
I'll answer 1 again more thoroughly if you need me to, that's just from memory.
Cyan, I think we've only played one game together where I was town and you thought I was scum. You should go glance at the games where I was scum and compare that to this game. Also lngrrr was scum in Battlestar galactica. I was scum in WWE, and a few other you could find in my stats.
His game play is very similar to battlestar as it is now, he is uninvolved and doesn't contribute and doesn't do anything. He managed to win by doing that so why would he adjust his play.
Then go look at my scum games, it's laughable how bad I am at scum. Please don't punt this game away.
What? I don't think I was very I involved that game, personally, no more so than other games.
It's like you are trying to just say anything to get town to vote me. "Look at how bad I am as scum!"
Then the WIFOM on NK speculation with Rhand, it's just... ugly. Vote Hawk
If someone else is pulling a gambit, good for them.
A no-lynch is pointless. So we no-lynch, then Cyan lives. So what? Would that mean you would suddenly think I am not scum? Would you then think Cyan was scum?
Here are some answers Generic:
1) Suspected Hunger upon initial entry, but my biggest reads were Wheat and Hawk. YesterDay it was still Hawk and Karn, mainly because Karn should've picked up the vest.
2) Didn't suspect you as scum. You have been a bit wishy washy on reads as scum lately, and less liable to push reads.
3) Blue Whale... Who is messing with the largest animal there is?
4) Hawk.
5) Bran. Dude is stepping up to some crazy challenges. Nice story arc so far. Dolorous Edd and Varys would be second.
6) Considering you always roll scum, it's a real pain. I THINK I am starting to be able to read you... but watch you be scum this game, and then I will just try to instalynch you in every game after this.
I want to read over BSG and one of hawk's scum games, but right now I'm still leaning toward lng being the last scum. Hawk's posts today are clearly misguided, but not the line I would expect him to take as scum. Especially him saying 'I was hoping that somehow a no lynch would happen and lngrrr would kill cyan to remove my doubt lol'. That sentiment sounds pretty honest. He could be faking it, but I believe it enough that if I had to choose right now, I would vote lng.
Thankfully we have a little time, certainly enough for me to glance over a couple of games where each of these guys were scum. The only thing about this that gives me pause is that hawk waited until now to mention it, when he could have done so earlier. That doesn't make it a bad idea, it just makes it feel a little trappy, which I will keep in mind.
Pre-post Edit: I feel a little more strongly inclined to vote LNG after his 2 recent posts. He just doesn't really seem to be paying attention to what is going on. He never bothered to get caught up on the game. Etc. For example:
I THINK I am starting to be able to read you... but watch you be scum this game, and then I will just try to instalynch you in every game after this
Generic is mod-confirmed town. This happened well after you replaced in.
This feels much more like 'scum that has given up' than it does 'townie that needs to convince us of his townieness to get the other guy lynched and not have the town lose the game'. What do you think, Generic?
Anyway. Still going to read those games.
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Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
It's just something I wanted to note, I'm still reading over your posts trying to get a deeper underlying concept from them, check your ties to existing dead scum, etc.
If Karn is somehow town and this ends up being you vs. LNG tomorrow and I'm still around, I don't want to be responsible for making the wrong decision and causing the town to lose. And if you're town, being snippety doesn't help you. Maybe you should try pointing out WHY you don't like these posts of lng's, rather than making completely vague statements that look like you just want us to do the work for you. I mean like..if you're town, the game may very well depend on your ability to defend yourself tomorrow AND your ability to help us understand why you think lng is scum.
And the same goes to LNG. Ideally we're just going to lynch Karn and the game is going to end. But if that doesn't happen, whichever one of you is town is going to somewhat have to take the game on your shoulders and make us make the right lynch.
@Karn: LNG is saying that your claim is not believable because, if it were, you would have figured out long before today that you couldn't pick up the bomb and give it to some townie. And he's right. After Day 2, we had an outed Doc, a vig that counterclaimed an SK, said SK was dead, and 2 mafia were also dead. If you had even talked to the Mod and figured out earlier that you couldn't pass items, and you didn't want to pick up a bomb because no one was ever going to NK you anyway, that would be one thing. But you clearly didn't 'learn' this until today, which makes your claim look like an absolute fabrication. Whether you are town or scum, your own play is unquestionably what did you in here. Fortunately, it seems far more likely that you are scum than town.
@Rhand: That is a good point. Hawk has been more active/involved today than previously in this game, and some of his posts do feel like they have the 'ring of truth' to them. I'll keep this in mind as I continue to re-read. Even though I really feel like this is all for nothing and the game is just going to end when we lynch Karn anyway. :/
Cyan, I'd like you to explain in depth (at least a paragraph) with actual reasons - instead of "he's scummy" - on myself, LnGrrrR, and Hawk. Then I want you to look back at it and tell me why the points against me are more damning than the points against LnGrrrR and Hawk.
If I feel like a case against LNG or Hawk is much stronger than a case against you, I'll happily lay it out. I wouldn't hold your breath on this being the case, because your claim/according behavior is really damning in my eyes,
Well this post is awful, as noted previously by Rhand. The wording of it is just like..what the actual ****.
This post just feels like it is trying WAY too hard. Also, we'll see if anything ever comes of the promised 'list'.
Once again..trying way too hard. I'm actually having a hard time seeing a player making this statement PERIOD, but here it is right in front of me, so it must have happened.
With current knowledge, this post is a huge red flag. Provides a summary of Niv's post, and ultimately...votes SNL. This is a giant tell. Especially since he (sort of) accuses Niv of coaching SNL, but in the end doesn't vote Niv.
This though, is very much a pro-town post. It has many underpinings of confidence in it that I can't see someone like Shockwave giving off if he was part of a scum team that lost 2 members in the first day.
This also reminds me that, re: Karn, I absolutely hated the way that Karn tried to lay the Seppel kill on Shockwave's doorstep. Even on a scumteam of(at the time) TK, Niv, and Shockwave, there is no way that Shock would have meaningful influence on NK decisions. This 100% reads like Karn trying to set Shock up.
I'm not sure that I see Shock making this post about his scumbuddy, especially considering that he just ended up voting him shortly thereafter anyway.
This post seems completely hollow. Like..would anyone of any alignment, on Day 1, really suggest themself as a lynch over another player? More than anything else, it seems like he is just trying to divert attention ANYWHERE other than Antny.
This post highlights an undertone of Shock REALLY wanting Seppel to post more. This makes me further doubt that he would then want to kill Seppel at night. It just makes him look so bad. I guess he could have just panicked because Seppel was 'onto him', but I'm skeptical.
Still not sure what Hawk expected us to notice about this post.
Onto LNG..
I don't like this post, because ultimately these things shouldn't matter to LNG if LNG is replacing in as town.
Can't figure out of this is just playing dumb or not. If LNG replaced in as scum, would he really not know that the scumteam tried to NK me? Maybe he just didn't have access to the scum's action history? But if that were the case, would he even bring it up? He probably would, given that he seems to be the inquisitive sort.
This seems defensive, but in an honest way.
If he were really reading the thread he could just..keep track of claims as he gets to them? Also the question to Karn seems like a super-lob that is just trying to get someone else to throw dirt on a player that is otherwise virtually confirmed as town.
LNG is referring to Karn saying that the remaining scumteam is Generic, KJ, and LNG, with Hawk as possible. As an aside, note that Generic is alive now and confirmed town, KJ is dead and confirmed town(we can forgive Karn for that one kinda), and the other 2 are still alive and unknown. This looks really poor for Karn, because it means that he has done nothing to get anyone lynched until yesterday. That or he just really sucks at it.
LNG's response ALSO is bad though, because it doesn't actually say(even remotely) 'I'm not scum', it is just a complete and utter strawman.
Still not actually caught up, also apparently thinks that Rhand is an idiot.
It's fascinating that Karn was calling LNG scum shortly before this, but LNG is willing to 'trust Karn's read' on Rhand being the Vig. If it were possible I would think that this, combined with the 'oh really 5 scum plus an SK' dialogue means that they're BOTH scum. But I super doubt that is the case. Still, it's very difficult to see a town LNG just blankly trusting someone that was just calling him scum. Like how could you NOT be doubting Karn's judgment here if you are town, LNG?
'Offers' himself up to be vigged, for whatever nonsensical reason. Also tries to get a massclaim. Not sure what to make of this.
Request for a mass claim makes more sense now.
...Or not. I don't buy 'yeah I don't care one way or the other' shortly after you ask for something to happen and explain WHY you wanted it to happen.
In reference to hawk offering to be shot. Lol? This is rich coming from the guy that himself recently said, I quote, 'I am fine with being shot if need be'. This is a comically large oversight on LNG's part.
So now he is suspicious of Hawk. The same hawk that just offered to be vigged. Which LNG also essentially did. There is a ridiculously large disconnect here. Like..Grand Canyon sized.
WG ultimately flipped town, but, this comes across as sound reasoning to me.
Hard to believe he would be 'fine' with getting the ball when he didn't know what it does. This comes across very much as bravado. Also tries to get a mass claim to happen again.
Doesn't believe KJ's claim, but I can't hold that one against him, because that claim was luls. Weird that he doesn't recognize how powerful it would be on a townie if real though, especially considering that he thinks Janitor is super-powered(pro-tip: Janitor is a super swingy role that usually does almost nothing because scum don't want to gamble on it).
Really does think the Janitor role is great. Asks for clarification on CM, which is completely reasonable. Tells us to remember his thoughts on WG and Hawk if LNG ends up getting day-vigged. This still seems like bravado.
Doesn't want to let go of WG despite WG being super obvtown at this point. But does hedge his way toward Hawk at the end..
Next few posts are from today, no need to summarize them.
He didn't follow up on that anti-Hawk bit at all, and still hasn't. That's unfortunate.
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Ultimately I don't know what to make here. LNG has some really scummy posts, some really town posts, but mostly just alot of posts that make me scratch my head. I can definitely see him being scum, but I could also see him being town. Certainly, I don't feel as strongly about him being scum as Rhand appears to.
Onto Hawk next.
Early in the game, Hawk seems genuinely interested in engaging other players. He directly probes Karn, Niv, and myself within his first few posts. This looks good for him, though how much he continues to do so(especially from Day 2 onward once a couple of scum are dead) will be very relevant.
He seems particularly interested in wanting my insight on Rhand v. Generic. I don't know what to make of that, and neither does someone else that asks Hawk about it. Hawk's response is:
This is a completely reasonable response.
Next Hawk asks Hunger to elaborate on KJ. Then he later says Seppel's posts are bad, then later still votes Hunger. I don't like this, because I think Hunger read strongly town from the outset of the game.
Shortly thereafter he unvotes with the cryptic statement 'this isn't going the way I want to, I blame Niv'. I don't feel good about this, mostly because Niv flipped scum.
Shortly thereafter, he asks TK for his thoughts on the antny wagon. This looks awful for Hawk because TK and Antny were both scum.
I felt like this part needed quoting:
I assume this is his explanation of why he voted Hunger. It feels hollow. And this post makes me feel like him telling us that his claim was to 'try to draw out power' was a complete fabrication. That train of thought here just makes no sense. It essentially says 'I can't vote this scum because of..hold on I'm going to make up a reason'.
It is extremely difficult to see this coming from a town perspective for me. Like..almost impossible level difficult. We'll see what else happens.
Nothing else relevant happens during Day 1. Important to note is that Hawk was never, ever meaningfully involved in the Antny wagon, other than asking one of Antny's scumbuddies what he thought about it.
Start of Day 2. Wants Generic to explain why the Antny? flip makes Rhand scummy. Votes Generic for this. This feels like an overreaction considering Generic v. Rhand Day 1.
Later asks if anyone else feels like 'Generic bussed Antny and it is blatantly obvious'. This feels like revisionist history to me.
In his next post he clarifies that he actually just wanted Rhand to respond. Which makes one wonder why he didn't just post the question directly to Rhand, especially given that he had no problem directly posing questions to people earlier in the game.
Later asks for Cantrip to weigh in on all of this. Not sure why he picked CM(we'll see if that gets explained later), and so much for 'Really I wanted Rhand to respond'. Apparently what he really meant was '**** you Generic, you scummy mcscummerson'.
Shortly thereafter, he makes a legit push against Generic, wanting him to explain his confirmation bias against Rhand, and says that he won't be moving his vote until this happens. This doesn't strike me as particularly pro-town behavior. If Generic is scum, hawk shouldn't unvote him whether he explains this or not. If Generic is not scum(from hawk's perspective), hawk should not be voting for him period.
Still talking to Generic..I think. This post is probably a pro-town point for Hawk, because it's unlikely that Hawk just reached out to his only remaining scumbuddy and pulled him into this. It's possible, but like..not at all likely.
This is definitely not pro-town for hawk, however. This post strongly implies that hawk KNOWS that Rhand is town. Literally the whole post is contingent upon this being accepted fact. Because if Rhand is anything but town here, Generic's behavior is 100% reasonable.
This is the worst post I've seen from anyone in my individual post analysis thus far. It feels very much like an inadvertent slip of inside knowledge.
Hawk's next post, where he declares Hunger and WG as his two biggest town reads(Rhand isn't even an afterthought here) seems to damn him further because of that last post.
In his next meaningful post, Hawk reaches out to Voxx for 'halp'. This seems odd, considering that Voxx is someone that he really shouldn't have a read on at this point, and hasn't expressed a read on before this.
Next, hawk tells us that he wants to lynch cantrip. This is really out of nowhere. His reasoning is solid, but it's still very random.
Next hawk tells us he is going to 'hang out and wait for a claim'. Hunger asks him about this, but hawk never answers. A bunch of nothing happens and then hawk decides to vote for Cantrip.
Later hawk tells us that he thinks fulcrum is town(despite 'wanting an snl claim'). I don't really get it.
In his next post, hawk says that he needs to look into fulcrum further to figure out why fulcrum is attacking me(spoiler alert: because she was scum and foolish).
hawk has a problem with CM's claim, assessing that it could just be a cover and wanting CM vigged. This is a fine request to make, but could just be fishing. It's hard to tell.
Here hawk determines that he thinks that fulcrum is town, and floats out the idea of lynching an uncounterclaimed Doc. Obviously I find this to be a huge point against him, because that is just something that you don't do unless you have an INCREDIBLY strong scum read on someone(I have tried to lynch an uncounterclaimed Doc twice in my hundreds of mafia games played..once I was correct and the other time I was not). It's definitely not something that you just toss out there casually.
Next, hawk gets distracted(I guess?) by shockwave and wants to know if hunger/karn still want to lynch him. Not sure why he suddenly cares what Karn has to say or what happened to WG being one of his top two town reads.
As of his next post he has decided that I am not being lynched without a counterclaim. I don't know what would cause this change of heart if he were town.
Good question re: Cantrip.
hawk wanting to lynch Generic, whom he has been arguing with forever, is reasonable here. I hate the 'he already claimed VT' hedge alot though. Also he is still voting Cantrip as of this post from what I can tell, despite not having talked about him in awhile.
Next hawk remembers that he's supposed to hammer. I feel like this 'further lie' doesn't bode well for him. He already didn't get NKed, and with me having just claimed Doc, he was extremely unlikely to get targeted next. If he were really just gambiting as town earlier, I would expect him to just let the issue drop or come clean, not continue the lie for no reason.
Over his next few posts, hawk dig's in on his anti-Generic stance, and does so in a very town way. Especially this:
This is very much a town mentality.
hawk next explains why he wants to lynch Cantrip(I guess we've moved on past Generic now) but not Voxx. His explanation is reasonable on both counts.
This seems like an honest assessment, but doesn't have to be a pro-town one. But it could be. :/
Hawk continues the 'gotta hammer' lie later. At this point it's not a tell, because he is basically stuck in it for today. He would get insta-lynched if he 'came clean' this shortly after his last 'gotta hammer' post.
Reasonable assessment of why he doesn't trust Generic.
Next post, hawk says that Fulcrum should claim. By his next post after this, fulcrum has claimed vig, and hawk had absolutely nothing to say about it. Considering that he 'mulled over' wanting to lynch me in spite of my not being counterclaimed, this seems pretty silly. Vig is a much easier claim to fake(particularly by an sk) than Doc can ever be.
After this he is back to wanting to lynch Generic. I have a problem with this at this point, because hawk is aware that cantrip has asked to die, and previously expressed, and defended, suspicion on Cantrip. Logically he should be pushing for a Cantrip lynch here.
hawk's next post is not until the next day period. LNG asks for a summary of Shock's play, and hawk's response is 'Karn wanted you dead based on the seppel NK'.
This strikes me as very off. It doesn't actually provide LNG with any useful information, and just makes Karn(whom previously hawk listed as a town read) look bad.
Hawk goes VLA for awhile, but tells us to read a 'good post' of Voxx. This seems like an honest/town moment for him.
Later, hawk goes back to voting Generic now that he has new ammunition(Rhand being essentially confirmed town now). The problem with this is that hawk was already(even if he didn't realize it) more or less treating rhand as confirmed town before this.
Next, hawk finally 'admits' that he just faked having a hammer ability. This is a null tell, because he really couldn't carry it on further beyond this. After this I state that I'm going to re-read him, and he summarizes his posts as 'scummy actions with town motives'. This is a decently accurate assessment, but I don't like that he threw it out there like that.
hawk spends the next couple of posts explaining why he faked having a hammer ability. And when put on the defensive by Rhand, he stands up for himself. But he has apparently forgotten about lynching Generic now(despite having just talked about him in his previous post) and wants to lynch LNG or KJ.
hawk asks to be vigged shortly after this. I don't know what to make of this, because...I never know what to make of people asking to die. I'm a sucker for the 'Hero Call', and I always feel like they could be bluffing. His lists his 3 remaining scum-reads as LNG, KJ, and Generic, with the disclaimer that we should 'take a better look at Karn' if Generic is town.
Before this, hawk was claiming Karn as strongly town, and I don't see why Generic's alignment would affect that. Sometimes it seems like hawk just doesn't (at all) remember his previous posts.
The rest of hawk's posts don't really matter much. Except for:
I don't give hawk as much credit for this post as Rhand does. Yes it appears town, but at this point all hawk has to do to win(given that WG was still alive here and KJ was very obviously 100% getting lynched yesterday) is appear more town than Karn and LNG. And it doesn't matter if hawk 'townclears' Karn, because, by process of elimination, if hawk convinces us that HE is town..then Karn will get lynched anyway, without hawk having to be involved.
Ultimately, hawk is harder to assess than lng. Whereas LNG had many 'in the middle' posts, hawk is either very town or very scum in general.
Having read both, it's really hard for me to say which one I feel more strongly is scum. If I absolutely had to pick one right now to be scum, I would say..lng. hawk just has more posts that come from a clearly town perspective.
But Karn is still my #1 suspect, and it's not particularly close. If I absolutely have to, I will do one of these assessments of him, but I really don't think that should be necessary. I certainly don't expect to learn anything that will make me want to lynch lng over him today.
Hopefully we hear from Generic soon, and then we can move on.
I have been thinking more about the Wheat death. Scum couldn't know that I still had a shot of something, so they obviously assumed Wheat was our last active PR. But... Why kill him? LnGrrrR was already checked and has no items. Could it be that the last scum does use items? And therefor is Karn or Hawk and not LnGrrrR?
I'm gonna try the modgaming approach and list all PR's and vanilla's and try to establish if the last scum should be goon or PR.
Also, re:vigging, the difference between Hawk and I is that he has been in the game since the beginning, and so votes on him should "matter" more. For better or worse, a player jumping into a slot on Day 3 or later makes the votes on him a bit more confusing, since you are voting for two personalities instead of one.
Finally, if I was town under pressure, I would know I had to start responding to arguments from the jump. I can't defend and read at the same time.
My main experience with the Janitor role is Apocalypse (IIRC, there might have been one other game) so you can see why I think it's OP.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
In 1 post, assuming if he is scum, he talks about only people that are town, in the other it's all scum +killjoy.
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I read up until near the end of Night 1.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'm certain it would make you realize how wrong you are.
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See, posts like this are why you come off as scummy to me. It's like you are trying to dig at every comment I make to twist it into something scummy.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
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You past karn off as town without reading the game. That reflects poorly on you.
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Super frown town.
Apparently I'll go ahead and re-read Karn now. Because..why not.
I already explained why. Karn mentioned that Rhand was town, IIRC, due to a vig claim. I mentioned that I knew already that Karn hates false claim vigs (due to having seen a scum false claim vig at least twice). So if Karn, of all people, was willing to accept Rhand's claim, that was good enough for me at the time. (I found out later that. Rhand CC'd Fulcrum.)
But while we are speaking about "not reading the game", what about the Day where TK was lynched? Where you just stopped in and wanted to vote me and Killjoy without even paying attention to the thread? Or is it ok for you not to read the thread but not me?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Really early vote on Shockwave. Provides explanation for it, etc.
Looks like we're onto Generic now. This stance feels much more definitive than his vote on shockwave, but he doesn't move his vote.
Rebuttals Generic, randomly says that he thinks KJ is scum.
Solidifies his anti-Generic stance. Note that he is still voting Shockwave as of this post. This feels insincere. He has put much more time and effort into explaining why Generic is scum, and if he were being truthful, I would expect him to be voting accordingly.
Also randomly calls out Niv here.
Presumably this is in response to Generic pointing out the disparity in Karn's voting Shockwave. Karn defends this in a surprising way. I say surprising because he is woefully incorrect here, and I suspect that he is just blustering here. Because I can't accept that anyone actually thinks that it's okay for townies to be voting one guy while constantly attacking another like this.
Says Niv is scum. No actual effort on that front.
Provides some insight into why he thinks Shock is scum. This explanation feels forced, particularly in comparison to his much more understandable and better explained distrust of Generic. I don't know what to make of this inconsistency right now.
This is a really odd line to take for someone that was directly calling Niv scum in the post immediately before this.
'Everything else' feels like a generous assessment for what was really like 1.5(max) valid points against shockwave.
Barely even mentions Antny, which was the only relevant wagon at the time. Lists Shockwave and Niv as the two best scum candidate. The fact that Niv flipped scum would look great for Karn if he didn't just seem to be consistently including Niv as an afterthought while actually trying to (sort of) get Shock lynched.
Still NOTHING to say re: Antny.
End of Day 1. Karn looks as scummy as possible throughout this day. He completely 100% ignored the Antny wagon, instead pushing wagons on Generic(confirmed town) and Shockwave(alignment unknown, but clearly they're not both scum).
The more I see this post, the more it feels like the biggest setup I have ever witnessed. And trying to say that you 'called' Niv is really rich. The way that you continually mentioned Niv while actually attacking someone else(and voting for a 3rd person part of the time) makes you look worse, not better.
Referring to yourself as one of the 'towniest people in the game' is a giant red flag for me. Especially when it's not even true.
100% OMGUS vote on Rhand. You know, the Rhand that has been obvtown all game.
Super-overreactionary vote on fulcrum.
I vote Karn over this, and all he has to say is 'Bad'.
I can't roll my eyes enough. This is the second time, in a short time period, that Karn has completely OMGUS'ed someone that voted him.
Shortly later, Karn votes me at the perfect time to force me to claim. Note that he has never provided anything even slightly resembling a reason as to why I might be scum.
Quickly distances himself from my wagon obviously, and makes sure to put some distance between himself and his terrible Rhand vote also.
And makes sure to keep mentioning Shock, even though he's not voting him and not actually trying to get him lynched.
Nice pot-shot at Generic.
Karn is quick to accept fulcrum's claim. I don't really blame him, and this is consistent with how he reacted to my claim also. Null tell.
Somehow ends up voting Generic afterward. Unclear what happened to his 'really sure' read on Shockwave.
Karn doesn't have much of relevance to say while Rhand is counterclaiming fulcrum, just some meaningless banter. His next relevant question is Day 3 when he wants to know what I am planning on doing with my vig shot.
This attitude is a huge red flag to me. The only reason he should care is because I might die before getting to fire off said shot. But as someone that can pick up the shotgun from my corpse, even this shouldn't really matter to him. Yet another reason that I don't believe Karn's claim today. It looks much more like Karn simply wants bodies to pile up.
I guess this a pro-town post? That or Karn is just supremely confident as scum, which I find hard to believe given that the scum team was down 2 at that juncture and had just missed their nightkill on me.
So Karn's final answer scum team is 2 confirmed town and 2 unknown(to be fair, if Karn IS town, one of those 2 unknown is scum).
Ultimately this just looks completely like he is picking on the lowest hanging fruit. Also note that Karn was quick to call out Seppel and Cantrip early in the game for their lack of activity, but has never even mentioned anything about TK, who lurked literally until he died.
Karn's next couple of posts are anti-LNG, and are completely reasonable.
This also appears pro-town.
Later, Karn is all to willing to see Generic lynched/vigged/anything, despite the fact that literally no one has wanted to go along with this all game. At this point it just feels like a way for him to active lurk.
Later still, when TK comes under fire, Karn is quick to create a connection between Killjoy and TK. I'm not saying that we wouldn't have lynched KJ anyway(we would have), but Karn put considerable effort into making that happen on some very flimsy evidence.
I'm just going to stop at this point. Karn doesn't say/do anything after this that is overwhelmingly town. His claim sucks. Ecetera.
I've fully read over Karn like he requested. I now want to lynch him more than ever. I'm far more convinced that he is scum than I am hawk or LNG. I guess we'll sit around and do nothing while Generic is VLA for 48 hours, but I really just want to move forward with this lynch once Generic is back and gives his thoughts(or doesn't).
I don't really mind not waiting for Generic. Just give me a few hours to look at the setup.
(If scum wants Generic's thoughts blocked, they have to kill him. With that they would kill the least active of the confirmed towns. Which is not a bad thing)
VANILLA (4 or 5)
Generic
Voxx
Hunger
(Hawk)
(Lngr)
PR (item-based) (4)
Rhand
Cyan
Seppel
Cantrip
PR (not item-based) (2 or 3)
Wheat
KillJoy
Karn
NEUTRAL (not? item-based) (1)
Fulcrum
SCUM (4)
GOON (1 or 2)
Antny
PR (item-based) (1 or 2)
Niv
PR (not item-based) (1 or 2)
TK
With 'not item-based' I mean that the PR doesn't need an item to activate his power.
First thought: I think I have finally figured out why I've been thinking Seppel's role is so off. I think the bulletproof vest from TK has been stolen from him. Which is why I put TK in not item-based: I don't think the Thief started with an item. With me and Seppel having killing items, this game could've easily given scum an extra kill with the TK theft. We were lucky that he got the vest.
So I think that Seppel's role was supplying 1 bulletproof vest, 1 bomb and 1 gun.
Scum: I think there's a big chance for scum to have another item-based PR: town has an itemcop in Wheat. If there's no other items on scum, then Wheat has only 2 chances to actually find scum: 1 rug on Cantrip and 1 stolen item on TK. And I think Fulcrum didn't use items? (I don't remember her being found with one)
Town: with 5 vanilla's, just over 50% are PR's. With 4 vanilla's, it goes to over 60%. Both are viable and point to scum probably having more than 50% PR's as well. So again, I think the last scum is power.
Now, imagine Karn is the last item-based scum. And categorize Fulcrum as anti-town goon as that's what she basically seemed to be.
11 town vs 5 anti-town.
5 vanilla vs 2 goon
4 item PR vs 2 item PR
2 not item PR vs 1 not item PR
Sounds like a balanced setup to me: everything nicely divided by 2 and an extra vanilla thrown in for town.
LnGrrrR can't be item-based as he's checked by Wheat. Let's say LnGrrrR is scum non-item PR:
11 town vs 5 anti-town
4 vanilla vs 2 goon
4 item PR vs 1 item PR
3 not item PR vs 2 not item PR
This setup feels town-sided. I don't dig it. Especially with all the killing power on town's side.
Hawk can be item-based: he's never been checked.
11 town vs 5 anti-town
4 vanilla vs 2 goon
4 item PR vs 2 item PR
3 not item PR vs 1 not item PR
This seems to make a little more sense than LnGrrrR, but still feels town-sided.
Modgaming points to Karn as well.
vote Karn
LnGrrrR (1): 7hawk77
Sir Karn (3): Generic, Cyan, Rhand
Not voting (2): Sir Karn, LnGrrrR
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to burn. The deadline is 0815 EDT 4 August 2014.
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vote karn
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Fingers crossed.
FROM: ISIS
TO: ABIN, AIVD, BND, CIA, CNI, CSIS, DGFI, GBI, G2, GRLS, HNA,
HUR, INTERPOL, JGSDF, KAPO, KNB, MI5, MI6, MIT, ODIN, PET, RCMP,
SAPO, SHiK, SND, SOVA, SuPo, SURETE, SV/SE, TC2, UJFC (E), WDO-4
RE: SIR KARN
***** ATTENTION ***** ALL AGENCIES ***** ATTENTION *****
ISIS HEREBY DISAVOWS AGENT SIR KARN WHO IS TO BE CONSIDERED
AN UNRELIABLE ASSET AND SECURITY RISK. ALL INTELLIGENCE FROM
SAID ASSET TAINTED. APPREHEND OR ELIMINATE AT OWN DISCRETION
THOUGH CAUTION ADVISED, ASSET HIGHLY TRAINED.
BURN NOTICE
BURN NOTICE
" ISIS: ALL OF OUR BUSINESS COMES FROM YOUR REFERRALS. "
10100934TXS
Alignment: Town
Role: Scavenger
Codename: Sir Karn
Bio: Cheryl Tunt's pet ocelot
A CAT!?
It is now Night 5. Communication is forbidden until further notification. You have 48 hours to perform any night actions.
Alignment: Town
Role: Hunter
Codename: Rhand
Bio: Former ISIS employee, manhunter
Day 6 has begun. With 4 alive, it takes 3 to burn. The deadline is 1630 EDT 6 August 2014.
Hey Hawk, were you telling the truth about having a hammer power? You can tell us, for reals.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
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This sounds like you are trying to give town a justification for lynching me.
Also, last I checked, Fulcrum was lynched D2. Upset about that?
If you had such a towny read on Karn, and a scum read on my slot, then why did you hammer instead of trying to press my lynch yesterDay?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
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I really want Generic to weigh in, I'm feeling a little gunshy after being so sure about Karn and being wrong. I can see either of you being scum and either of you being town. :/
His game play is very similar to battlestar as it is now, he is uninvolved and doesn't contribute and doesn't do anything. He managed to win by doing that so why would he adjust his play.
Then go look at my scum games, it's laughable how bad I am at scum. Please don't punt this game away.
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You wanted to 1 vs 1 rhand who was town. Th end you wanted to 1 vs 1 me. I'm also town.
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2. I suspected you as scum because I didn't get why you attacked rhand and went in to your 1v1, and you also committed confirmation bias which is something you've stood against before. I admit that I ended up tunneling.
3. Hawk, cause I like them. Also fly away from battle to not die.
4. Lngrr
5. Probably tyrion. But danerys, varus and aria should get honorable mentions.
6. I enjoy games with you, I've probably played with you and rhand more than anyone else on the site. I'm usually not very useful during day and you always mess with everyones head creating content while getting people to want you dead lol.
I'll answer 1 again more thoroughly if you need me to, that's just from memory.
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What? I don't think I was very I involved that game, personally, no more so than other games.
It's like you are trying to just say anything to get town to vote me. "Look at how bad I am as scum!"
Then the WIFOM on NK speculation with Rhand, it's just... ugly.
Vote Hawk
If someone else is pulling a gambit, good for them.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Here are some answers Generic:
1) Suspected Hunger upon initial entry, but my biggest reads were Wheat and Hawk. YesterDay it was still Hawk and Karn, mainly because Karn should've picked up the vest.
2) Didn't suspect you as scum. You have been a bit wishy washy on reads as scum lately, and less liable to push reads.
3) Blue Whale... Who is messing with the largest animal there is?
4) Hawk.
5) Bran. Dude is stepping up to some crazy challenges. Nice story arc so far. Dolorous Edd and Varys would be second.
6) Considering you always roll scum, it's a real pain. I THINK I am starting to be able to read you... but watch you be scum this game, and then I will just try to instalynch you in every game after this.
7) That one in Europe.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Thankfully we have a little time, certainly enough for me to glance over a couple of games where each of these guys were scum. The only thing about this that gives me pause is that hawk waited until now to mention it, when he could have done so earlier. That doesn't make it a bad idea, it just makes it feel a little trappy, which I will keep in mind.
Pre-post Edit: I feel a little more strongly inclined to vote LNG after his 2 recent posts. He just doesn't really seem to be paying attention to what is going on. He never bothered to get caught up on the game. Etc. For example:
Generic is mod-confirmed town. This happened well after you replaced in.
This feels much more like 'scum that has given up' than it does 'townie that needs to convince us of his townieness to get the other guy lynched and not have the town lose the game'. What do you think, Generic?
Anyway. Still going to read those games.