I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Fulcrum doesn't need to prove her ability anymore, she's cleared by being Jailed while there was an NK.
vote KoolKoal
Not quite. But with jailing being treated as a roleblock, we know now it's impossible for fulcrum to be a roleblocker that could block and kill in the same Night, because her roleblock would've fired at the same time as DCIII's jail, thus her NK would have been blocked.
In short, the only way for fulcrum to be scum instead of Kool is if she's immune to Night Actions/roleblocks. Gotta reread her trying to discern if she has displayed such mindset somewhere. I'll get to that after FNM.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
If we trust the mechanics we know of so far, and there aren't any immunity roles or hidden extra-characters, then KoolKoal must be the scum.
If we believe immunity roles are possible, we have to fall back on behavioral. Behaviorally, I've had fulcrum as solid town all game, so it's between the two KK's. My reads on both of them are weak, but Kosa has been contributing much more. Again, points to KoolKoal as scum.
Note that we already saw a godfather/roleblocker, so the ninja question is really a question of whether scum have two immunity roles.
I was willing to believe a hidden extra character, but I think a hidden extra character that doesn't even show votes is outside the realm of possibility.
KoolKoal, who exactly do you think is scum and why shouldn't I lynch you?
KamikazeArchon is overly aggressively working to lynch me quickly despite the fact that it "has to be me" so I'm most skeptical of him.
I need to reread and see if anyone is less "proven" than I remember them being, but I'm thinking its probably not going to be that easy and I'll have to find something solid. The odds I could fool you at this point as the last scum are terrible, but as I'm town, the real scum is out there and, logically, it must be possible to catch him/her if you give me time.
Also, give iRebel time to see that we've got a majority on Cythare
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Niv's claim sounds real, and also happens to be underpowered in a game with a lot of town power. It's possible that he's a ninja/neighbor thing combo, but doubtful. That and the fact that his votes were actually closer to dkings' votes than I think two scumbuddies would want.
So you're saying that what made you change your mind on Niv was his claim, right? That's what made you pretty sure about Niv being town.
If this is the case, then explain why did you leave his wagon when he refused to claim if, by your own words, you were still reading him as scum?
Alright, so we've either got Kosa as a ninja, or Kamikaze/fulcrum as a roleblock ignorer.
Based on that, I'd say Kosa's the most likely, but I'm going to take a look at everyone's interactions with gentrip and the "wagon" that ended in gentrip's death.
Kamikaze: The deadline's in 10 days
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Summary of KoolKoal's posting this Day phase:
1) Hypothetical about an extra hidden character
2) Talking about a reread (but no actual reread results)
3) Implication of everyone else without commitment to any specific target
4) Stalling. The deadline is a maximum on the Day duration, not our goal.
Gen starts out the day by being heavily suspicious of fulcrum. Then Kosa shows up and takes the suspicion even farther. And by 811 and beyond, Gen doesn't worry about fulcrum anymore. Why? Because his buddy decided to go further down that route and they need to be distant.
Kosa also used attacking fulcrum as an excuse to ignore all other wagons (as he did on day 1 with SNL), including the gentrip wagon. He was v/la leading up to my shot, but comes back in 1058 to keep going after fulcrum, put some out some doubt that scum are among the final VTs, and throw a bit of mud at me, and that's it. No more speculation, though he says we need to wait for cantrip's flip. So obviously he starts contributing toMorrow, right?
Next Day, Kosa happily jumps on DCIII's plan since he's been investigated by fulcrum and doesn't make the list of future lynches. But aside from that, he lurks.
Don't think we'll find any real hints in the last Days, as the last scum has the game set so that they can't lose if town just sits back and goes with the flow of POE, so the scum just sat back and acted just like the town. I read it regardless, but didn't find anything of note.
Anyway, this stuff, combined with Kosa's day 1 behavior of ignoring dkings, calling for a no lynch, and his suspicious post that looked like an early reaction to dkings being lynched but not seeing him flip, makes me confident its him. (plus the fact that apparently a role-block ignorer "isn't a role" and if there's an ability that can get through the block, it looks like gentrip had it.)
Vote Kosakosa
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
This actually makes me lean town on LnGrrrR. I think scum would be much more aware of who's in the game or not. Maybe LnGrrrR's sloppy scum, but it doesn't feel that way to me.
This makes sense. I like Cantrip.
What I don't like is people voting anyone but cccc.
After the fiasco that was giving doublevote powers to scum in both Legend of Lucian and Survival Horror, I don't think the error would be repeated for the third time... But then again, Iso is one of the reviewers of this game. Hm.
I'm torn.
@Gentrip: since you've checked Niv and realized that self-voting is not a tell for him, why didn't you just do the same with Hooker before voting her?
I have only seen a scum doublevoter in one game that wasn't an Iso game, and that was a specialty (Majora's Mask) in which the ability a) was granted by an item, and b) was lost at LyLo. I think it's pretty safe to assume that c808 is town.
Yeah, you're probably right... But that doesn't make my gut go any less paranoid whenever behavioral obvscum are pseudo-cleared by virtue of their roles. Lucian Mafia comes to head
@Kosa: with everything that's going on right now, you think the best course of action is an "answer my question or die" vote? you were looking good earlier, but your 92 is practically active lurker quality. got nothing useful to add?
Dat smear.
I ask a question and am ignored.
I reinforce the question and again am ignored.
What else would you suggest that I could have done to make them stop ignoring me, other than voting?
@Kosa: Because my vote wasn't just for her self-vote. Gen says that her behavior isn't unusual, but I don't see why that means she should get away with it.
Gen starts out the day by being heavily suspicious of fulcrum. Then Kosa shows up and takes the suspicion even farther. And by 811 and beyond, Gen doesn't worry about fulcrum anymore. Why? Because his buddy decided to go further down that route and they need to be distant.
This is false. Show me where is Generic's heavy suspicion of fulcrum, because I'm not seeing it. He didn't even vote her. And btw, you were the first to demonstrate suspicion regarding fulcrum.
Now indulge me on this: If I were scum, I would have to be a Ninja because DCIII. So please tell me, why would I, as scum, waste my ******* time trying to get fulcrum lynched instead of doing something better with my life?
Kosa also used attacking fulcrum as an excuse to ignore all other wagons (as he did on day 1 with SNL), including the gentrip wagon. He was v/la leading up to my shot, but comes back in 1058 to keep going after fulcrum, put some out some doubt that scum are among the final VTs, and throw a bit of mud at me, and that's it. No more speculation, though he says we need to wait for cantrip's flip. So obviously he starts contributing toMorrow, right?
This is misleading AND false. First, I didn't ignore other-than-SNL wagons on D1: I started Niv's AND cccc's wagon on D1 and consistently pushed both Niv and SNL, mainly, because those were my highest scumreads at that moment.
Secondly, what wagons could I have ignored on D2? Because there were none. We spent the whole the Day massclaiming and modgaming and, in the end, Gentrip ended up being vigged by you on doubtful circumstances because... he replaced out when kpaca went AWOL? How much sense did that even make?
Regarding #1058:
- I don't like when my questions go on answered;
- Oh, sorry for trying to put people's heads on their place regarding modgaming (in a game where the mod especifically told us not to)
- Threw mud on you? What? Tell me what part of that sentence is mud. Unless you are his buddy and wanted to cut information short, It's OBVIOUS that you shouldn't have killed Gentrip, or anyone for that matter, before he chimed in.
Next Day, Kosa happily jumps on DCIII's plan since he's been investigated by fulcrum and doesn't make the list of future lynches. But aside from that, he lurks.
This is misleading. Everybody agreed with DCIII's plan, including yourself. At that time, his plan seemed seemed perfect... and on the next Day, it was I who pointed out the inherent flaws on it. Again, why would I do that as scum?
And I lurk in pretty much every game I play, I recall already having said that to you. Cut the pointless smears.
Don't think we'll find any real hints in the last Days, as the last scum has the game set so that they can't lose if town just sits back and goes with the flow of POE, so the scum just sat back and acted just like the town. I read it regardless, but didn't find anything of note.
And if weren't for me, people would've lynched you on the spot days ago, because modgaming is apparently more important than the ******* actual game of Mafia.
Anyway, this stuff, combined with Kosa's day 1 behavior of ignoring dkings (1), calling for a no lynch (2), and his suspicious post that looked like an early reaction to dkings being lynched but not seeing him flip (3), makes me confident its him. (plus the fact that apparently a role-block ignorer "isn't a role" (4) and if there's an ability that can get through the block, it looks like gentrip had it.)
1) Ignoring DKL LOL. The guy had like 15 posts before he was lynched.
2) I've already explained my points regarding the nolynch and I'm not going to repeat myself, you can go back there and read them. And while I apparently got backlash for it, it's funny to note how on the next Day everybody was suddenly in the idea of going for a nolynch.
3) I've already answered this: I was referring to cccc and Niv, not DKL.
I wasn't barning Kool. I was waiting to see if he would take my promise to vote him as a cue to buddy up to you and vote for me.
The quoted posts are the reasons I believe you're scum. I mean, just look at them. There's calling Gentrip town over nothing, horrible distancing with a vote over Gentrip not answering a question, that is immediately rescinded, and insulting the reasoning abilities of both Generic and dkings with the exact same language in the same post.
Did you honestly expect no one to notice those little slips?
Gen starts out the day by being heavily suspicious of fulcrum. Then Kosa shows up and takes the suspicion even farther. And by 811 and beyond, Gen doesn't worry about fulcrum anymore. Why? Because his buddy decided to go further down that route and they need to be distant.
This is false. Show me where is Generic's heavy suspicion of fulcrum, because I'm not seeing it. He didn't even vote her.
Read Gen's first post on that page I linked. And you know that a vote isn't required to sow suspicious.
Now indulge me on this: If I were scum, I would have to be a Ninja because DCIII. So please tell me, why would I, as scum, waste my ******* time trying to get fulcrum lynched instead of doing something better with my life?
Because you thought you could get her lynched when lngrrr flipped obviously. And because she was still a danger to gentrip at that time.
Kosa also used attacking fulcrum as an excuse to ignore all other wagons (as he did on day 1 with SNL), including the gentrip wagon. He was v/la leading up to my shot, but comes back in 1058 to keep going after fulcrum, put some out some doubt that scum are among the final VTs, and throw a bit of mud at me, and that's it. No more speculation, though he says we need to wait for cantrip's flip. So obviously he starts contributing toMorrow, right?
This is misleading AND false. First, I didn't ignore other-than-SNL wagons on D1: I started Niv's AND cccc's wagon on D1 and consistently pushed both Niv and SNL, mainly, because those were my highest scumreads at that moment.
So you pushed a few town members hard all game and ignored everyone else? Very convincing counter-argument. And I believe fulcrum started Niv's wagon actually, they were bickering all Day.
Secondly, what wagons could I have ignored on D2? Because there were none. We spent the whole the Day massclaiming and modgaming and, in the end, Gentrip ended up being vigged by you on doubtful circumstances because... he replaced out when kpaca went AWOL? How much sense did that even make?
lol, no wagons? That's why before I vigged, wildfire and fulcrum gave me 3 choices of kills they were happy with. Because there were no wagons at all . And nice misrep of my vig shot. Should I be a broken record and point out that I started suspecting him during twilight of Day 1? Should I also remind you that I was the only one remembering that gen had claimed rl issues when he replaced and kept trying to remind the others?
- Threw mud on you? What? Tell me what part of that sentence is mud. Unless you are his buddy and wanted to cut information short, It's OBVIOUS that you shouldn't have killed Gentrip, or anyone for that matter, before he chimed in.
It is mud because I made it perfectly clear I was shooting someone earlier, and you had nothing to say on the topic until after it happened. It is also mud because I gave cantrip multiple days to show up and post, and gave warning that a shot was coming that night, and cantrip was the only name that everyone who gave input agreed I should shoot, yet he only showed up to complain about it. From my perspective, I'd given him plenty of warning, and if he was too busy to even notice before I shot him, he was probably too busy to actually catch up. (I may have to apologize after the game though, if my assumption really did get under his skin.)
Its also mud, because your whole attack on me was designed to say "look how bad he is" rather than point out anything scummy I did. You did't even take a stand on cantrip's alignment. It's a big fence sit on top of mud.
Next Day, Kosa happily jumps on DCIII's plan since he's been investigated by fulcrum and doesn't make the list of future lynches. But aside from that, he lurks.
This is misleading. Everybody agreed with DCIII's plan, including yourself. At that time, his plan seemed seemed perfect... and on the next Day, it was I who pointed out the inherent flaws on it. Again, why would I do that as scum?
Misleading? You said we should wait until the flip to begin scum-hunting again, and then didn't scum hunt. Sure, its not my strongest point against you, but its something to keep in mind.
And you throw out the stereotypical WIFOM question as part of your defense as well.
And I lurk in pretty much every game I play, I recall already having said that to you. Cut the pointless smears.
There's a difference between lurking and posting sparingly. In this game, you've been hanging out in the background rather than standing out. I remember you taking more active stances in the posts you do make as town.
Don't think we'll find any real hints in the last Days, as the last scum has the game set so that they can't lose if town just sits back and goes with the flow of POE, so the scum just sat back and acted just like the town. I read it regardless, but didn't find anything of note.
And if weren't for me, people would've lynched you on the spot days ago, because modgaming is apparently more important than the ******* actual game of Mafia.
Show me where you benevolently didn't quick-lynch me .
Anyway, this stuff, combined with Kosa's day 1 behavior of ignoring dkings (1), calling for a no lynch (2), and his suspicious post that looked like an early reaction to dkings being lynched but not seeing him flip (3), makes me confident its him. (plus the fact that apparently a role-block ignorer "isn't a role" (4) and if there's an ability that can get through the block, it looks like gentrip had it.)
1) Ignoring DKL LOL. The guy had like 15 posts before he was lynched.
And yet everyone else in the game had meaningful interaction with him. Even hans.
2) I've already explained my points regarding the nolynch and I'm not going to repeat myself, you can go back there and read them. And while I apparently got backlash for it, it's funny to note how on the next Day everybody was suddenly in the idea of going for a nolynch.
You had poor reasons, which were discussed and ignored for a reason, and the next day people actually did math to decide that no-lynching made more sense.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
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I'm going to do a re-read, look at the votes, and let KoolKoal have his say, but I'm probably just going to vote for him.
Abilities resolve in the highest possible layer. For jailing, that is layer 07, which is roleblocking.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
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Anyway, I still want to attempt to lynch Cythare first.
vote Cythare
Then if that still does nothing, behavior analysis to decide who is the ninja. Or maybe back to fulcrum, as she hasn't managed to prove her ability.
What do you think a ninja is, KoolKoal?
vote KoolKoal
I don't need a scumtell at this point. Fulcrum is clear. Kosa is clear. It must be you.
Not quite. But with jailing being treated as a roleblock, we know now it's impossible for fulcrum to be a roleblocker that could block and kill in the same Night, because her roleblock would've fired at the same time as DCIII's jail, thus her NK would have been blocked.
In short, the only way for fulcrum to be scum instead of Kool is if she's immune to Night Actions/roleblocks. Gotta reread her trying to discern if she has displayed such mindset somewhere. I'll get to that after FNM.
A ninja is a role that gets around tracks and watches.
Then whatever the name is for a role that can't be roleblocked in place of ninja.
Not Voting: KoolKoal, fulcrum, Kosakosa
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Still waiting for people to either vote Cythare or give me a decent, logical reason why we shouldn't.
If we believe immunity roles are possible, we have to fall back on behavioral. Behaviorally, I've had fulcrum as solid town all game, so it's between the two KK's. My reads on both of them are weak, but Kosa has been contributing much more. Again, points to KoolKoal as scum.
Note that we already saw a godfather/roleblocker, so the ninja question is really a question of whether scum have two immunity roles.
I was willing to believe a hidden extra character, but I think a hidden extra character that doesn't even show votes is outside the realm of possibility.
Also, saying you've had a town read on fulcrum all game, when you've only been here since after her claim, is silly.
unvote, vote Cythare
Your second sentence is pointless semantics. Obviously I'm including my catch-up read in "all game".
vote Cythare
Boop, majority, and nothing happens.
I need to reread and see if anyone is less "proven" than I remember them being, but I'm thinking its probably not going to be that easy and I'll have to find something solid. The odds I could fool you at this point as the last scum are terrible, but as I'm town, the real scum is out there and, logically, it must be possible to catch him/her if you give me time.
Also, give iRebel time to see that we've got a majority on Cythare
Not Voting: KoolKoal, KamikazeArchon, fulcrum, Kosakosa
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
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Fine, back to looking for the needle in the haystack.
When he refused to claim fully, it made him town enough for me to not want to lynch. Then dkings flipped scum, and they were linked, so I tracked Niv.
The Cythare thing is out of the way. Nothing else has changed.
Based on that, I'd say Kosa's the most likely, but I'm going to take a look at everyone's interactions with gentrip and the "wagon" that ended in gentrip's death.
Kamikaze: The deadline's in 10 days
1) Hypothetical about an extra hidden character
2) Talking about a reread (but no actual reread results)
3) Implication of everyone else without commitment to any specific target
4) Stalling. The deadline is a maximum on the Day duration, not our goal.
I think the way Kosa keeps pushing me makes him town. I also think Kamekaze has to be town mechanically.
I'm going to vote for KoolKoal soon. If you have a problem with that, speak now.
Starting at 781 and down.
Gen starts out the day by being heavily suspicious of fulcrum. Then Kosa shows up and takes the suspicion even farther. And by 811 and beyond, Gen doesn't worry about fulcrum anymore. Why? Because his buddy decided to go further down that route and they need to be distant.
Kosa also used attacking fulcrum as an excuse to ignore all other wagons (as he did on day 1 with SNL), including the gentrip wagon. He was v/la leading up to my shot, but comes back in 1058 to keep going after fulcrum, put some out some doubt that scum are among the final VTs, and throw a bit of mud at me, and that's it. No more speculation, though he says we need to wait for cantrip's flip. So obviously he starts contributing toMorrow, right?
Next Day, Kosa happily jumps on DCIII's plan since he's been investigated by fulcrum and doesn't make the list of future lynches. But aside from that, he lurks.
Don't think we'll find any real hints in the last Days, as the last scum has the game set so that they can't lose if town just sits back and goes with the flow of POE, so the scum just sat back and acted just like the town. I read it regardless, but didn't find anything of note.
Anyway, this stuff, combined with Kosa's day 1 behavior of ignoring dkings, calling for a no lynch, and his suspicious post that looked like an early reaction to dkings being lynched but not seeing him flip, makes me confident its him. (plus the fact that apparently a role-block ignorer "isn't a role" and if there's an ability that can get through the block, it looks like gentrip had it.)
Vote Kosakosa
You're drunk. What makes Niv town to you?
You're drunk. What makes Niv town to you? "Sincerity" in 179?[/quote]
Thanks KoolKoal. That's all I wanted.
Vote: Kosakosa
This is false. Show me where is Generic's heavy suspicion of fulcrum, because I'm not seeing it. He didn't even vote her. And btw, you were the first to demonstrate suspicion regarding fulcrum.
Now indulge me on this: If I were scum, I would have to be a Ninja because DCIII. So please tell me, why would I, as scum, waste my ******* time trying to get fulcrum lynched instead of doing something better with my life?
This is misleading AND false. First, I didn't ignore other-than-SNL wagons on D1: I started Niv's AND cccc's wagon on D1 and consistently pushed both Niv and SNL, mainly, because those were my highest scumreads at that moment.
Secondly, what wagons could I have ignored on D2? Because there were none. We spent the whole the Day massclaiming and modgaming and, in the end, Gentrip ended up being vigged by you on doubtful circumstances because... he replaced out when kpaca went AWOL? How much sense did that even make?
Regarding #1058:
- I don't like when my questions go on answered;
- Oh, sorry for trying to put people's heads on their place regarding modgaming (in a game where the mod especifically told us not to)
- Threw mud on you? What? Tell me what part of that sentence is mud. Unless you are his buddy and wanted to cut information short, It's OBVIOUS that you shouldn't have killed Gentrip, or anyone for that matter, before he chimed in.
This is misleading. Everybody agreed with DCIII's plan, including yourself. At that time, his plan seemed seemed perfect... and on the next Day, it was I who pointed out the inherent flaws on it. Again, why would I do that as scum?
And I lurk in pretty much every game I play, I recall already having said that to you. Cut the pointless smears.
And if weren't for me, people would've lynched you on the spot days ago, because modgaming is apparently more important than the ******* actual game of Mafia.
1) Ignoring DKL LOL. The guy had like 15 posts before he was lynched.
2) I've already explained my points regarding the nolynch and I'm not going to repeat myself, you can go back there and read them. And while I apparently got backlash for it, it's funny to note how on the next Day everybody was suddenly in the idea of going for a nolynch.
3) I've already answered this: I was referring to cccc and Niv, not DKL.
4) http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Ascetic
Did you also reread fulcrum or am I just easier to lynch?
What? Why were you waiting for Koolkoal's vote in order to vote me if you were already set on it?
Your contentless barn is pretty, but you're not getting away with it: what points Kool made do you agree with?
The quoted posts are the reasons I believe you're scum. I mean, just look at them. There's calling Gentrip town over nothing, horrible distancing with a vote over Gentrip not answering a question, that is immediately rescinded, and insulting the reasoning abilities of both Generic and dkings with the exact same language in the same post.
Did you honestly expect no one to notice those little slips?
I fail to see why this is relevant to the point I was making.
Because you thought you could get her lynched when lngrrr flipped obviously. And because she was still a danger to gentrip at that time.
So you pushed a few town members hard all game and ignored everyone else? Very convincing counter-argument. And I believe fulcrum started Niv's wagon actually, they were bickering all Day.
lol, no wagons? That's why before I vigged, wildfire and fulcrum gave me 3 choices of kills they were happy with. Because there were no wagons at all . And nice misrep of my vig shot. Should I be a broken record and point out that I started suspecting him during twilight of Day 1? Should I also remind you that I was the only one remembering that gen had claimed rl issues when he replaced and kept trying to remind the others?
It is mud because I made it perfectly clear I was shooting someone earlier, and you had nothing to say on the topic until after it happened. It is also mud because I gave cantrip multiple days to show up and post, and gave warning that a shot was coming that night, and cantrip was the only name that everyone who gave input agreed I should shoot, yet he only showed up to complain about it. From my perspective, I'd given him plenty of warning, and if he was too busy to even notice before I shot him, he was probably too busy to actually catch up. (I may have to apologize after the game though, if my assumption really did get under his skin.)
Its also mud, because your whole attack on me was designed to say "look how bad he is" rather than point out anything scummy I did. You did't even take a stand on cantrip's alignment. It's a big fence sit on top of mud.
Misleading? You said we should wait until the flip to begin scum-hunting again, and then didn't scum hunt. Sure, its not my strongest point against you, but its something to keep in mind.
And you throw out the stereotypical WIFOM question as part of your defense as well.
There's a difference between lurking and posting sparingly. In this game, you've been hanging out in the background rather than standing out. I remember you taking more active stances in the posts you do make as town.
Show me where you benevolently didn't quick-lynch me .
And yet everyone else in the game had meaningful interaction with him. Even hans.
You had poor reasons, which were discussed and ignored for a reason, and the next day people actually did math to decide that no-lynching made more sense.
Yes, and I find the explanation unsatisfactory as Niv was far from cleared and cccc had claimed ages ago. DCIII felt the same way.
To pick one example: If fulcrum is scum, Gen did a superb job bussing on D1.
I'll answer stuff when I get home.
I'm willing to wait a bit.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
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