Kaze, so you're saying there are no slips of any kind and we should completely ignore anything that looks like a town slip or a scum slip?
That's pretty foolish, when - if you are town - it's more reasonable to think Sir Karn arrived at an incorrect conclusion, rather than assuming the method he used is incorrect.
Kaze, so you're saying there are no slips of any kind and we should completely ignore anything that looks like a town slip or a scum slip?
That's pretty foolish, when - if you are town - it's more reasonable to think Sir Karn arrived at an incorrect conclusion, rather than assuming the method he used is incorrect.
I didn't say that, did I? I'm merely saying that the case on me is bad because the OP exists, nothing more.
Funny that you think they were RVS votes. You telling me you didn't think those were serious votes?
Of course they were serious votes. When did I say they weren't? That was the whole reason of me claiming Iso - to skip the infamous RVS stage and get right to the meat of the discussion.
Archmage is confirmed town for being the first person to state that his role name is himself (as is mine) so I can only assume all townies are themselves.
This seems rather forced and it is this kind of posting i have seen from scum!Karn before.
FOS Sir Karn
And I told you after that game was done I told you about how I do that as town as well and the "catch" you thought you had was not a catch at all and was entirely different from the other situation that I said you shouldn't just say "I'm town" in. Perhaps you forgot that conversation. I'm pretty sure it was in the quicktopic for spec chat if you want to go reread it.
And how am I suppose to say "well since AE said his role PM is himself that means he's town" if I don't know that's already true?
Because it was established before you said that Here
It says townies are themselves in the sample role PM. Derp.
Where? All I see is [Playername] followed by [Playername] - and it doesn't say those two [Playername]s must be the same. It could easily be another player just as the arsonists are other players (Iso and Seppel).
Wheat, I think it's fine to take slips with a grain of salt but it's a mistake to ignore them completely.
I think it's a mistake to give them any credence this game.
And I say this as someone who LOVES that sort of tell, normally. I don't think that it can be properly applied this game.
I didn't like Nacho's immediate defense of Rodemy despite there being zero pressure on him at the time. I just don't see a town reason to do that, but I can think of plenty scum reasons to do so.
What are those reasons?
(I do want to see more from Nacho as well though; that being his only post so far is a little weird)
Kaze, so you're saying there are no slips of any kind and we should completely ignore anything that looks like a town slip or a scum slip?
That's pretty foolish, when - if you are town - it's more reasonable to think Sir Karn arrived at an incorrect conclusion, rather than assuming the method he used is incorrect.
I didn't say that, did I? I'm merely saying that the case on me is bad because the OP exists, nothing more.
Funny that you think they were RVS votes. You telling me you didn't think those were serious votes?
Of course they were serious votes. When did I say they weren't? That was the whole reason of me claiming Iso - to skip the infamous RVS stage and get right to the meat of the discussion.
By you saying RVS wagon above is saying those votes were not serious as they were RVS votes. Plus what is the issue of me avoiding that stage and wagon at the time when you just said you were trying to get out of the RVS?
Wheat, I think it's fine to take slips with a grain of salt but it's a mistake to ignore them completely.
I think it's a mistake to give them any credence this game.
And I say this as someone who LOVES that sort of tell, normally. I don't think that it can be properly applied this game.
Because it's an open setup? I don't think it's wise to ignore them completely. I'm not saying to base an entire case on it, but to ignore them completely absolutely is foolish. I've played plenty of open setup games where I've caught scum not knowing information they should, despite it being in the OP, and I've found town the same way. It may not be 100% solid but it's something to support later analysis.
Quote from "Wheaties" »
I didn't like Nacho's immediate defense of Rodemy despite there being zero pressure on him at the time. I just don't see a town reason to do that, but I can think of plenty scum reasons to do so.
What are those reasons?
(I do want to see more from Nacho as well though; that being his only post so far is a little weird)
- town cred for "correctly reading" a townie.
- whiteknighting (I don't actually know why scum still do this)
- gaining Rodemy's trust and/or a town read from him
It should be intrinsically obvious that playernames are their own playernames. Otherwise we'd have one person being Iso the Arsonist and one person being Iso the Playername - neither of them being the actual Iso.
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, having the townies not be just VT was not a good idea setup wise.
@Wheat:
I think it was scummy. That's what I was implying.
@Delilah:
I was referring to the "Info being in the OP" part not the "townslips" part.
@Archmage:
Force of habit. This game is breaking a lot of usuals for me. By "RVS wagon" I meant the first wagon of the game, which is usually RVS but not in this case.
Because avoiding the first wagon of the game is scummy, friend. The wagon was to drum up reactions, and avoiding the wagon avoids reactions.
When I made the post, I thought it was interesting he seemed to avoid interacting with anyone on the playerlist, opting instead to vote for a role (and then I remembered Iso is a player on the playerlist).
Being a townie in this game is the most disappointing thing that's happened to me this whole week.
vote Kazekirimaru because if someone hammered that'd be hilarious.
I thought it was odd that Nacho would vouch so strongly for Rodemy so early, based on dropping what appeared to be obviously forced town tells, but I can understand, I suppose. It's WIFOMy anyway. But the fact that right after Nacho says that what Rodemy did was extremely townie and no one should lynch him, Ged decides he should do the same thing. The difference in timing between the two posts makes me believe that Ged was more interested in squeezing himself into Nacho's town pile.
Vote: Ged
I can't say I agree. I fully related to Ged's post, whereas Rodemy is someone I know quite well IRL and as such I feel pretty confident saying that his statement is absolutely forced.
If you were one of the Arsonists, who would your top 3 dousing targets be and why?
I would choose Iso, Rascals, and Wheat because I don't know anyone here and they are admins/scary people with early join dates. If I had more experience with people's playstyles, I'd choose whoever I knew had the most experience with me and would be able to read me the best.
Do you have experience with anybody in this game?
Quote from Delilah »
Quote from "Iso" »
Ged, Nacho, and Wheat are my choices. Ged and Nacho because they're pretty good players, and Wheat because he'd seek my death out before the end of the game no matter what.
I had a few other questions I wanted to ask but Xyre said no posting, so I forgot them.
Oh, I remember: If you were an Arsonist, what Day would you strike your match on?
I worked it out that best case for one of the arsonists, we'd see a match lit no later than D4 and worst case, no later than D6. I think it's more likely they will get antsy and strike it D3.
Which actually leads me to something interesting I was thinking about when I did this. Trying to figure out motivation in this setup is rather different than a standard mafia game. One arsonist isn't just trying to get townies lynched; he's also trying to find the other arsonist, and in that respect his motivation may be more masked than usual. The only difference is motivation to survive.
(OOC: I hope it's not a big deal on this board that I snipped the irrelevant parts of some quotes?)
I agree - I thought about it, and it occurred to me that the Arsonists SHOULD be looking for each other, though I was kind of hoping no one was going to flat-out say, "Hey, this is what the optimal Arsonist play would be," which is why I was cagey with my own questions/answers. Why did you feel the need to help the Arsonist win conditions?
I didn't. I'm first on the player list. Like I said, I like the odds.
I'm myself by the way. That's my role name.
Archmage is confirmed town for being the first person to state that his role name is himself (as is mine) so I can only assume all townies are themselves.
Unvote; Vote: Archmage for masterfully avoiding the RVS wagon.
I'm not Iso, by the way.
Kazekirimaru doesn't know that all townies are themselves, so he votes Archmage without realizing Archmage townslipped super hard (because Kazekirimaru CAN'T realize that since his role pm doesn't say "You are Kazekirimaru").
:nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod:
:no::no::no::no::no::no::no:
You know the OP has all of this information, right?
When are you going to answer my questions?
-
@Wheat: My question was from a non-circumstantial point of view. Given no information on the state of game, which 3 players would you want to burn and why? Also, have you read the OP?
Archmage is confirmed town for being the first person to state that his role name is himself (as is mine) so I can only assume all townies are themselves.
This seems rather forced and it is this kind of posting i have seen from scum!Karn before.
Archmage is confirmed town for being the first person to state that his role name is himself (as is mine) so I can only assume all townies are themselves.
This seems rather forced and it is this kind of posting i have seen from scum!Karn before.
FOS Sir Karn
And I told you after that game was done I told you about how I do that as town as well and the "catch" you thought you had was not a catch at all and was entirely different from the other situation that I said you shouldn't just say "I'm town" in. Perhaps you forgot that conversation. I'm pretty sure it was in the quicktopic for spec chat if you want to go reread it.
And how am I suppose to say "well since AE said his role PM is himself that means he's town" if I don't know that's already true?
Because OP?
Karn is also pinging my Arsonsense. What is the purpose of asking my role when there are going to be 2 Isos in this game if I'm not an Arsonist?
Kazekirimaru doesn't know that all townies are themselves, so he votes Archmage without realizing Archmage townslipped super hard (because Kazekirimaru CAN'T realize that since his role pm doesn't say "You are Kazekirimaru").
Uhh
It says townies are themselves in the sample role PM. Derp.
Quote from Kazekirimaru »
Scum is Archmage and Ged and one other.
Uhhm.
You said you read the OP.
-_o
-
Well, I guess that answers my question about Wheat reading the OP, but I'm gonna say I still like him for town for the fireproof slip.
@Wheat: I disagree: RE: Rodemy. I think he's nervous and cares very much about how he looks.
Kaze, so you're saying there are no slips of any kind and we should completely ignore anything that looks like a town slip or a scum slip?
That's pretty foolish, when - if you are town - it's more reasonable to think Sir Karn arrived at an incorrect conclusion, rather than assuming the method he used is incorrect.
I didn't say that, did I? I'm merely saying that the case on me is bad because the OP exists, nothing more.
But how would you expect Karn to know you read the OP?
It says townies are themselves in the sample role PM. Derp.
Where? All I see is [Playername] followed by [Playername] - and it doesn't say those two [Playername]s must be the same. It could easily be another player just as the arsonists are other players (Iso and Seppel).
Don't play dumb. That's like saying, "Just because X = 3 in the first part of the equation doesn't mean X = 3 in the second part!"
-
@Delilah: Do you believe there are going to be scumslips in this game? A simple yes or no will suffice for now.
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, having the townies not be just VT was not a good idea setup wise.
Why? The information is in the OP and there's no guarantee that either Seppel or I would be in the game; at least, you're arguing the former, right?
Quote from Kazekirimaru »
Because avoiding the first wagon of the game is scummy, friend. The wagon was to drum up reactions, and avoiding the wagon avoids reactions.
Do you think I'm scummy for consciously avoiding the first wagon because I thought the premise of it was bad? Do you think anybody jumped on the first wagon to seem townie? If so, who and why?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
My questions aren't getting me where I was hoping.
@Iso
I've glanced at the OP several times so have probably gained all the info by now, but have never fully read it even now. I rarely do.
The three players I'd want to burn most: Iso (because you push my lynch just as often), Archmage Eternal (because I don't know the way he thinks very well and thus might find me out), and probably Delilah (because I need to balance out with an unknown player and she's posting a lot). And to update my earlier day of fire answer, probably Day 6.
I was wondering if someone would catch the post from Kaze as being particularly weird. I'm sort of thinking it could have been him trying to pick up easy town cred.
Do you think I'm scummy for consciously avoiding the first wagon because I thought the premise of it was bad? Do you think anybody jumped on the first wagon to seem townie? If so, who and why?
- I don't know about you yet. You play weird regardless of alignment. When I saw you didn't vote me I figured you saw what I was trying to do and decided to just go ahead doing your own thing with the questions instead. Plus I had already posted before you regarding the wagon so the jig was up, so to speak.
Speaking of your questions, I think I forgot the second one. I guess I'd light up day three or something.
- The person my vote is on, yeah. He only got on the wagon because Rodemy told him to.
@Karn: Are you approaching this game differently than the other games I've played with you?
@Iso: I don't see how the information being public is related to people slipping. I can say with reasonable certainty that everyone who isn't Seppel in Astarte reads their PM, but I hold no delusions that everyone reads all information made available to them for a game. Accordingly, I think you're being too quick to disregard Karn's case on Kaze.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
@Iso:
Regarding [post]23[/post] where Ged expresses his disappointment at "being a townie", you say you can relate to this. I take it you much prefer (and are more comfortable?) playing anti-town roles. Is this correct?
I should note though, that this isn't why I voted for him. It was the fact that he felt it necessary, after Nacho's comment about Rodemy's post, to explicitly claim.
Do you have experience with anybody in this game?
I do.
Iso, why did you ask a question that specifically involves arsonist strategy and hope that no one would discuss arsonist strategy? For that matter, what was the purpose behind getting people's top choices for burn victims? Isn't it reasonable to assume that the arsonists would lie, and subsequently use the town's answers as a roadmap?
@Delilah: Do you believe there are going to be scumslips in this game? A simple yes or no will suffice for now.
Yes.
Iso, can you explain the purpose of your questions now that most people have humored you in answering them?
------------
I agree with Sir Karn's ending statement in [post]66[/post]. The gamestate has a lot to do with when it is most beneficial to light the match.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Trying to figure out motivation in this setup is rather different than a standard mafia game. One arsonist isn't just trying to get townies lynched; he's also trying to find the other arsonist, and in that respect his motivation may be more masked than usual. The only difference is motivation to survive.
Yeah, I had the same thought. Arsonists will be looking to lynch anyone they possibly can with a slight preference for people they haven't doused, and they'll avoid trying to lynch each other until the other one has used his/her match.
Kazekirimaru doesn't know that all townies are themselves, so he votes Archmage without realizing Archmage townslipped super hard (because Kazekirimaru CAN'T realize that since his role pm doesn't say "You are Kazekirimaru").
Do you think I'm scummy for consciously avoiding the first wagon because I thought the premise of it was bad? Do you think anybody jumped on the first wagon to seem townie? If so, who and why?
- I don't know about you yet. You play weird regardless of alignment. When I saw you didn't vote me I figured you saw what I was trying to do and decided to just go ahead doing your own thing with the questions instead. Plus I had already posted before you regarding the wagon so the jig was up, so to speak.
So I am exempt from your suspicion for avoiding your wagon "because Iso"? Just clarifying.
If you were an Arsonist, what Day would you strike your match on [regardless of the gamestate]?
Everyone who hasn't answered these needs to.
hahahaha no. I refuse to publicly theorycraft proper play for the firebugs, tyvm.
Why not humor me? A handful of other people have already answered - what harm could your answers do?
-
@AE: Why did you feel the need to randomize your selections instead of selecting players you would want to burn the most based on their experience/your own experience with them?
@Iso:
Regarding 23 where Ged expresses his disappointment at "being a townie", you say you can relate to this. I take it you much prefer (and are more comfortable?) playing anti-town roles. Is this correct?
Being the villain is always more fun, but at the same time, I like piecing the puzzle together. I'm disappointed that I'm not an Arsonist because a setup I tossed around the Theory thread inspired this setup and I would have liked to outplay everyone as an Arsonist.
Quote from Delilah »
I should note though, that this isn't why I voted for him. It was the fact that he felt it necessary, after Nacho's comment about Rodemy's post, to explicitly claim.
What is the motivation for an Arsonist to do such, do you believe?
Quote from Delilah »
Do you have experience with anybody in this game?
I do.
Who?
Quote from Delilah »
Iso, why did you ask a question that specifically involves arsonist strategy and hope that no one would discuss arsonist strategy? For that matter, what was the purpose behind getting people's top choices for burn victims? Isn't it reasonable to assume that the arsonists would lie, and subsequently use the town's answers as a roadmap?
I asked a question that specifically involves Arsonist strategy and hoped that no one would expound on further Arsonist strategy because I had a specific purpose for asking the questions that I asked, which is part of the reason why I'm frustrated people aren't answering me. I won't answer the rest of your question until everyone else answers my own, but please remind me once that's happened and I'll happily respond.
Quote from Delilah »
Iso, can you explain the purpose of your questions now that most people have humored you in answering them?
BLECH. How do I link to a particular post from this thread?
Use [url] tags. Put an = after the url, then put the url, then within the tags, put the text you want for the hyperlink; after that, close the url tags with [/url].
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I would drench Iso then a couple of low threat obvtown it would be too much trouble to lynch.
There's obviously an optimal time to strike and I would strike then.
Kaze first joke post practically screams that he's a joke wagon and wants to get RVSed, which doesn't strike me as a move Kaze is comfortable enough to want to pull off. Arsonists are basically serial killers and serial killers get a little twitchy when early pressure gets turned on.
Rodemy doesn't strike me as a player to see what information is readily available to him, and him trying to crumb all over the place screamed that he was trying to break the game. I thought asking Iso for his role name wasn't actually that town, but it did show a "all townies are playing as themselves" thought process which would be impressive for scum right out of the gate.
Delilah also seems to have very early fully formed thought process, which is a strong new town tell. Attitude screams town, which is a really dope thing and equals strong town, although you miss the motive of finding good townreads early since people won't be dying for a while.
Wheat apparently doesn't know how arsonists work which is weak but still around for wheat-town.
Arch dropped his name pretty bash fully I'm a townie way, and the ignorant strongmanning by Karn afterwards is was also pretty town.
GED seems fine, but EC is boring as hell, would also lynch.
No idea yet. Haven't had the time yet to really sit down with the thread and think about the game, on top of which they're going to be harder to find than typical mafia because they don't have teammates (which is my preferred way of watching for scum these days).
What is the motivation for an Arsonist to do such, do you believe?
WIFOM, mostly. A couple people jumped on him for it, yet most are like "nah, why would an arsonist do that" and are instead going for others, which, I think, was the intended effect.
Quote from "Iso" »
Quote from "Delilah" »
Quote from "Iso" »
Do you have experience with anybody in this game?
I do.
Who?
I'd prefer to keep that to myself until I've determined their alignment.
Quote from "Iso" »
Why did you feel the need to ask this twice?
The first was more rhetorical, in that I was kind of "thinking out loud", the second was directed at you specifically. I saw it in p-edit and decided to just leave it.
---------
@Nacho:
Why is Iso town? Why isn't void?
I agree with your town reads, except for Iso, and maybe Kaze. I'm not sold on him yet.
I have no idea who EC is though. Can you tell me more about why you'd lynch him?
Iso's tone changes between talking to me then talking to ER are wildly different. I'm not sure why that is:
When I don't answer Iso's question he says "Why are you afraid to answer?"
When ER doesn't answer Iso's question he says "Why not humor me?"
I'm not too thrilled that you pointed this out - I was attempting to goad ER into actually responding with me. As for you, you seem afraid to answer me, and you and ER have gone about refusing to answer me in different ways. Different circumstances, different questions, different people. Why are you avoiding answering me? Why did you feel the need to point this out?
-
@Rodemy: Wait, you mean you wanted to know the purpose of my original questions? Like I said to Delilah, I will explain once everyone answers me. Why are you only partially reading my posts? Why are you only responding to things directed to you?
No idea yet. Haven't had the time yet to really sit down with the thread and think about the game, on top of which they're going to be harder to find than typical mafia because they don't have teammates (which is my preferred way of watching for scum these days).
I see. That seems fair. How accurate do you find associative tells to be on Day 1?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I mean it can't be though... "Iso" and "Sepple" are the arsonists in this game..
Kaze claimed iso his first post (why? idk.. maybe he didn't know we all got our own names as rolenames.... or didn't remember "Iso" is the arsonist in this game".. LYNCH IT)
I would like to know what Iso got... granted, being as he couldn't have gotten himself, he could lie and say anybody not in the game... but it would still be funny to see who he got...
So why are we dropping the whole "Lynch Kaze" thing?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
@Wheat: I will tell you more when Nacho answers me.
@Rodemy: Why are you ignoring me?
@Everyone: Can we PLEASE start policy lynching people who don't answer my questions? .-. They are being intentionally obstructive to the Arsonist-hunting process - and incidentally, I had 2 such players pegged as Arsonists early on.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
At least one of the crayons in this box is bright.
Sir Karn's entire case on me is based on the above not being true. But it is true. So, yeah.
That's pretty foolish, when - if you are town - it's more reasonable to think Sir Karn arrived at an incorrect conclusion, rather than assuming the method he used is incorrect.
Funny that you think they were RVS votes. You telling me you didn't think those were serious votes?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I didn't say that, did I? I'm merely saying that the case on me is bad because the OP exists, nothing more.
Of course they were serious votes. When did I say they weren't? That was the whole reason of me claiming Iso - to skip the infamous RVS stage and get right to the meat of the discussion.
?
How is that establishing anything?
Claiming Iso IS claiming someone other than himself. It's twofold.
Where? All I see is [Playername] followed by [Playername] - and it doesn't say those two [Playername]s must be the same. It could easily be another player just as the arsonists are other players (Iso and Seppel).
I think it's a mistake to give them any credence this game.
And I say this as someone who LOVES that sort of tell, normally. I don't think that it can be properly applied this game.
What are those reasons?
(I do want to see more from Nacho as well though; that being his only post so far is a little weird)
That's not what I asked.
But you did say that:
Wheat said there aren't actually townslips in this game. You agreed.
So.... if you're going to ignore town slips, I'm assuming you will also be ignoring scum slips, and if not, then why ignore town slips as well?
You did say that. You can't allow for scum slips while ignoring town slips.
By you saying RVS wagon above is saying those votes were not serious as they were RVS votes. Plus what is the issue of me avoiding that stage and wagon at the time when you just said you were trying to get out of the RVS?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Because it's an open setup? I don't think it's wise to ignore them completely. I'm not saying to base an entire case on it, but to ignore them completely absolutely is foolish. I've played plenty of open setup games where I've caught scum not knowing information they should, despite it being in the OP, and I've found town the same way. It may not be 100% solid but it's something to support later analysis.
- town cred for "correctly reading" a townie.
- whiteknighting (I don't actually know why scum still do this)
- gaining Rodemy's trust and/or a town read from him
It should be intrinsically obvious that playernames are their own playernames. Otherwise we'd have one person being Iso the Arsonist and one person being Iso the Playername - neither of them being the actual Iso.
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, having the townies not be just VT was not a good idea setup wise.
@Wheat:
I think it was scummy. That's what I was implying.
@Delilah:
I was referring to the "Info being in the OP" part not the "townslips" part.
@Archmage:
Force of habit. This game is breaking a lot of usuals for me. By "RVS wagon" I meant the first wagon of the game, which is usually RVS but not in this case.
Because avoiding the first wagon of the game is scummy, friend. The wagon was to drum up reactions, and avoiding the wagon avoids reactions.
I can't say I agree. I fully related to Ged's post, whereas Rodemy is someone I know quite well IRL and as such I feel pretty confident saying that his statement is absolutely forced.
Do you have experience with anybody in this game?
I agree - I thought about it, and it occurred to me that the Arsonists SHOULD be looking for each other, though I was kind of hoping no one was going to flat-out say, "Hey, this is what the optimal Arsonist play would be," which is why I was cagey with my own questions/answers. Why did you feel the need to help the Arsonist win conditions?
I already said I wouldn't be claiming in this game. Go hump a cactus.
:no::no::no::no::no::no::no:
You know the OP has all of this information, right?
When are you going to answer my questions?
-
@Wheat: My question was from a non-circumstantial point of view. Given no information on the state of game, which 3 players would you want to burn and why? Also, have you read the OP?
Because I'm pretty sure your opening statement was contrived.
Because OP?
Karn is also pinging my Arsonsense. What is the purpose of asking my role when there are going to be 2 Isos in this game if I'm not an Arsonist?
Uhhm.
You said you read the OP.
-_o
-
Well, I guess that answers my question about Wheat reading the OP, but I'm gonna say I still like him for town for the fireproof slip.
@Wheat: I disagree: RE: Rodemy. I think he's nervous and cares very much about how he looks.
But how would you expect Karn to know you read the OP?
Don't play dumb. That's like saying, "Just because X = 3 in the first part of the equation doesn't mean X = 3 in the second part!"
-
@Delilah: Do you believe there are going to be scumslips in this game? A simple yes or no will suffice for now.
Why? The information is in the OP and there's no guarantee that either Seppel or I would be in the game; at least, you're arguing the former, right?
Do you think I'm scummy for consciously avoiding the first wagon because I thought the premise of it was bad? Do you think anybody jumped on the first wagon to seem townie? If so, who and why?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I didn't read the OP until after other people pointed at it.
Everyone who hasn't answered these needs to.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The one about asking my role.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And I already answered your question: I'm not RVSing.
"[regardless of the gamestate]" is stupid and completely goes against what will ACTUALLY be happening.
Everything would depend on the gamestate.
@Iso
I've glanced at the OP several times so have probably gained all the info by now, but have never fully read it even now. I rarely do.
The three players I'd want to burn most: Iso (because you push my lynch just as often), Archmage Eternal (because I don't know the way he thinks very well and thus might find me out), and probably Delilah (because I need to balance out with an unknown player and she's posting a lot). And to update my earlier day of fire answer, probably Day 6.
I was wondering if someone would catch the post from Kaze as being particularly weird. I'm sort of thinking it could have been him trying to pick up easy town cred.
Yeah. I'm stupid. v.v
Uhm.
I would hope everyone read the OP, yeah...?
I guess I just don't like there being room for confusion. Then again, it is a game of Mafia. I'm just griping. Don't mind me.
- I don't know about you yet. You play weird regardless of alignment. When I saw you didn't vote me I figured you saw what I was trying to do and decided to just go ahead doing your own thing with the questions instead. Plus I had already posted before you regarding the wagon so the jig was up, so to speak.
Speaking of your questions, I think I forgot the second one. I guess I'd light up day three or something.
- The person my vote is on, yeah. He only got on the wagon because Rodemy told him to.
---
What do you think about Ged's vote on me?
@Iso: I don't see how the information being public is related to people slipping. I can say with reasonable certainty that everyone who isn't Seppel in Astarte reads their PM, but I hold no delusions that everyone reads all information made available to them for a game. Accordingly, I think you're being too quick to disregard Karn's case on Kaze.
hahahaha no. I refuse to publicly theorycraft proper play for the firebugs, tyvm.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
There you go. Karn, Delilah, and Iso
As far off as I feel confident.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
@Iso:
Regarding [post]23[/post] where Ged expresses his disappointment at "being a townie", you say you can relate to this. I take it you much prefer (and are more comfortable?) playing anti-town roles. Is this correct?
I should note though, that this isn't why I voted for him. It was the fact that he felt it necessary, after Nacho's comment about Rodemy's post, to explicitly claim.
I do.
Iso, why did you ask a question that specifically involves arsonist strategy and hope that no one would discuss arsonist strategy? For that matter, what was the purpose behind getting people's top choices for burn victims? Isn't it reasonable to assume that the arsonists would lie, and subsequently use the town's answers as a roadmap?
Yes.
Iso, can you explain the purpose of your questions now that most people have humored you in answering them?
------------
I agree with Sir Karn's ending statement in [post]66[/post]. The gamestate has a lot to do with when it is most beneficial to light the match.
------------
@Wheat:
You'd burn me because I post a lot? ;_;
pedit: the [post] tags suck here.
I don't think so.
Porn star scumkarn
Also: kaze is scum. I am certain of that right now.
I am only suspicious of Karn
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
lol
Kay.
Also i said i dont like being highly flamnable to hint at my abilities i recieved in my role pm
Karn! I have missed you buddy <3
@Rodemy: Do you have an ability? If so, I have a plan, so trust me with this. Nobody else should respond to this.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'd douse AE, Delilah, and ExpiredRascals first because then I could call myself the ALPHABETICAL ARSONIST and alliteration, as always, is awesome.
I'd do it day 2, maybe 3, right as someone else I hadn't doused was looking like they were about to get lynched.
Yeah, I had the same thought. Arsonists will be looking to lynch anyone they possibly can with a slight preference for people they haven't doused, and they'll avoid trying to lynch each other until the other one has used his/her match.
PM-gaming is anti-fun. Don't do it.
unvote
You should still answer the question. Why are you afraid to answer me?
And you STILL didn't answer my other question:
"What is the purpose of asking my role when there are going to be 2 Isos in this game if I'm not an Arsonist?"
So I am exempt from your suspicion for avoiding your wagon "because Iso"? Just clarifying.
Why?
I think Ged is town so it doesn't bother me.
Tell me why.
Why not humor me? A handful of other people have already answered - what harm could your answers do?
-
@AE: Why did you feel the need to randomize your selections instead of selecting players you would want to burn the most based on their experience/your own experience with them?
Being the villain is always more fun, but at the same time, I like piecing the puzzle together. I'm disappointed that I'm not an Arsonist because a setup I tossed around the Theory thread inspired this setup and I would have liked to outplay everyone as an Arsonist.
What is the motivation for an Arsonist to do such, do you believe?
Who?
I asked a question that specifically involves Arsonist strategy and hoped that no one would expound on further Arsonist strategy because I had a specific purpose for asking the questions that I asked, which is part of the reason why I'm frustrated people aren't answering me. I won't answer the rest of your question until everyone else answers my own, but please remind me once that's happened and I'll happily respond.
Not yet. I need a few more answers, first.
Why did you feel the need to ask this twice?
Use [url] tags. Put an = after the url, then put the url, then within the tags, put the text you want for the hyperlink; after that, close the url tags with [/url].
Also, what Karn said.
You didn't cite a post. I asked you to cite some posts.
Why did you feel the need to clarify that Karn was scum in Porn Star Mafia?
-
@Ged: Who do you think is an Arsonist, currently?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This links to my previous post just for an example to show you how it's done.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso is town!
Vote: Void
I would drench Iso then a couple of low threat obvtown it would be too much trouble to lynch.
There's obviously an optimal time to strike and I would strike then.
Rodemy doesn't strike me as a player to see what information is readily available to him, and him trying to crumb all over the place screamed that he was trying to break the game. I thought asking Iso for his role name wasn't actually that town, but it did show a "all townies are playing as themselves" thought process which would be impressive for scum right out of the gate.
Delilah also seems to have very early fully formed thought process, which is a strong new town tell. Attitude screams town, which is a really dope thing and equals strong town, although you miss the motive of finding good townreads early since people won't be dying for a while.
Wheat apparently doesn't know how arsonists work which is weak but still around for wheat-town.
Arch dropped his name pretty bash fully I'm a townie way, and the ignorant strongmanning by Karn afterwards is was also pretty town.
GED seems fine, but EC is boring as hell, would also lynch.
My ability is that i am highly flammable...
Also what information are you trying to gather from your question?
Watch Star Wars?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
When I don't answer Iso's question he says "Why are you afraid to answer?"
When ER doesn't answer Iso's question he says "Why not humor me?"
I don't get it..
I mean this question
No idea yet. Haven't had the time yet to really sit down with the thread and think about the game, on top of which they're going to be harder to find than typical mafia because they don't have teammates (which is my preferred way of watching for scum these days).
WIFOM, mostly. A couple people jumped on him for it, yet most are like "nah, why would an arsonist do that" and are instead going for others, which, I think, was the intended effect.
I'd prefer to keep that to myself until I've determined their alignment.
The first was more rhetorical, in that I was kind of "thinking out loud", the second was directed at you specifically. I saw it in p-edit and decided to just leave it.
---------
@Nacho:
Why is Iso town? Why isn't void?
I agree with your town reads, except for Iso, and maybe Kaze. I'm not sold on him yet.
I have no idea who EC is though. Can you tell me more about why you'd lynch him?
---------
@Ged:
Who do you think is not an arsonist, then?
Tell me why.
Again: Why?
Disagree; why do you think so?
Who? You mean ER?
Also, why the Void vote?
Whether or not you're an Arsonist. Was hoping to catch you in a slip.
Maybe I'll re-evaluate later.
I'm not too thrilled that you pointed this out - I was attempting to goad ER into actually responding with me. As for you, you seem afraid to answer me, and you and ER have gone about refusing to answer me in different ways. Different circumstances, different questions, different people. Why are you avoiding answering me? Why did you feel the need to point this out?
-
@Rodemy: Wait, you mean you wanted to know the purpose of my original questions? Like I said to Delilah, I will explain once everyone answers me. Why are you only partially reading my posts? Why are you only responding to things directed to you?
I see. That seems fair. How accurate do you find associative tells to be on Day 1?
No worries, I figured it out.
:suckup:?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
oh my god are you still going on about this
I mean it can't be though... "Iso" and "Sepple" are the arsonists in this game..
Kaze claimed iso his first post (why? idk.. maybe he didn't know we all got our own names as rolenames.... or didn't remember "Iso" is the arsonist in this game".. LYNCH IT)
I would like to know what Iso got... granted, being as he couldn't have gotten himself, he could lie and say anybody not in the game... but it would still be funny to see who he got...
So why are we dropping the whole "Lynch Kaze" thing?
@Wheat: I will tell you more when Nacho answers me.
@Rodemy: Why are you ignoring me?
@Everyone: Can we PLEASE start policy lynching people who don't answer my questions? .-. They are being intentionally obstructive to the Arsonist-hunting process - and incidentally, I had 2 such players pegged as Arsonists early on.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Quick! Throw a fit and demand a policy lynch them!