Tanarin's post barning yours is much more scummy. Not just because he's barning, but because he's barning a weak argument. Fos: Tanarin because my vote's on kazekirimaru until he explains his barn of Iso because that one's barning a vote with no reason given, not a vote with poor reason given.
I agree with this. During RVS you jumped on to the first vote made, then you jump on to the first serious wagon. Why did you vote for Dkingsland? Iso, please don't provide your reasoning until Kazekirimaru responds to this.
My reasons should be obvious.
Wagons, you plebe. Wagons are a tool. Wagons are a good thing.
Seriously, look at this post. Tavanio "honestly thinks" that Tavanio was just pulling RVS shenanigans? That's self-conscious as hell. Moreover, that extra "think" suggests that Shockwave had to think about whether or not to include the "honestly", which suggests that he's scum who was thinking about how best to phrase his post to avoid detection.
Or he's a new player that doesn't want to be lynched early, and so is being careful about how to phrase things. Or he cares about writing well. Extraneous adverbs aren't a scum tell, as far as I'm aware.
They actually are a scum tell. Scum like to throw on adverbs, Seppel goes after "honestly" specifically as town shouldn't have need to remind everyone that they are posting "honestly" while scum feel worried and include it as emphasis.
But wait, there's more! Shockwave "has no real reason" for voting Tavanio, but "that may change"? In what world does this make sense from a town mindset? That SCREAMS scum who is trying to decide whether or not he can get away with attacking Tavanio.
While completely unnecessary, I don't think that reminding people he might change his mind comes from a scum mindset. Right now, he's saying he has a town, or at least neutral read on me. That means that if he starts to attack me, he won't be able to say that he always had a slightly scummy read on me, and will have to point to what changed between this post and the last. As scum, he wouldn't want to remind everyone that his read on me might change, he would want to be able to start attacking me without ever having said anything about me.
It's assumed that reads change, town don't need to explain that. Scum, on the other hand, like to use wishy-washy language that sets up future change. I've done this as town and seen others do this as town, but it does have an increased likelihood from scum.
Is there any reason you feel the need to defend Shockwave?
It's difficult for me to get a read on this post, however. While your analysis seems townish, you're also a lot more confident than I would expect you to be as town. You go after multiple players with fairly weak attacks, which also would come from a scum mindset. However, this is not enough for a vote at this point. IGMEOY
Tanarin's post barning yours is much more scummy. Not just because he's barning, but because he's barning a weak argument. Fos: Tanarin because my vote's on kazekirimaru until he explains his barn of Iso because that one's barning a vote with no reason given, not a vote with poor reason given.
Why does your disagreement with Tar's post make someone agreeing with it scummy? Why do you feel the need to explain the FOS so much?
Tanarin's post barning yours is much more scummy. Not just because he's barning, but because he's barning a weak argument. Fos: Tanarin because my vote's on kazekirimaru until he explains his barn of Iso because that one's barning a vote with no reason given, not a vote with poor reason given.
Said as if having strong arguments 2-4 hours after game start is a common occurrence. Really though, at this early stage of the game, most early wagons form based off of weak wagons. The reason this happens is because these early wagons provide info and interactions between the other players that later on can build stronger and stronger cases.
@shockwave: Why the reaction for Tare's vote? It is only a 2 vote wagon, yet you are coming at him like it is a lynching vote.
No, having strong arguments isn't common, and yes, wagons provide information. That doesn't mean you should hop on a wagon for the sole purpose of hopping on a wagon. Wagons provide information because of the reasons people join them, and people's responses to having a wagon formed against them. If the only reason you jump on a wagon is "too get information," you defeat that purpose.
I agree with this. During RVS you jumped on to the first vote made, then you jump on to the first serious wagon. Why did you vote for Dkingsland? Iso, please don't provide your reasoning until Kazekirimaru responds to this.
My reasons should be obvious.
Wagons, you plebe. Wagons are a tool. Wagons are a good thing.
Well, they clearly are not, otherwise I wouldn't have asked about them. If your reasons are that wagons provide information based on who joined them and why, you are correct: The reason you joined is awful, therefore you are likely scum. I don't understand the mindset of "I'm going to jump on a wagon so people can analyze it, then insult people that analyze it." Care to explain it to me?
Tanarin's post barning yours is much more scummy. Not just because he's barning, but because he's barning a weak argument. Fos: Tanarin because my vote's on kazekirimaru until he explains his barn of Iso because that one's barning a vote with no reason given, not a vote with poor reason given.
Said as if having strong arguments 2-4 hours after game start is a common occurrence. Really though, at this early stage of the game, most early wagons form based off of weak wagons. The reason this happens is because these early wagons provide info and interactions between the other players that later on can build stronger and stronger cases.
@shockwave: Why the reaction for Tare's vote? It is only a 2 vote wagon, yet you are coming at him like it is a lynching vote.
[QUOTE=Taredas;/comments/12596039]
Seriously, look at this post. Tavanio "honestly thinks" that Tavanio was just pulling RVS shenanigans? That's self-conscious as hell. Moreover, that extra "think" suggests that Shockwave had to think about whether or not to include the "honestly", which suggests that he's scum who was thinking about how best to phrase his post to avoid detection.
Or he's a new player that doesn't want to be lynched early, and so is being careful about how to phrase things. Or he cares about writing well. Extraneous adverbs aren't a scum tell, as far as I'm aware.
They actually are a scum tell. Scum like to throw on adverbs, Seppel goes after "honestly" specifically as town shouldn't have need to remind everyone that they are posting "honestly" while scum feel worried and include it as emphasis.
And what about "actually?"
While your idea sounds reasonable in theory, I firmly believe that it comes down to personal preference more than alignment. Some people like adverbs, some people don't. If you could provide me examples of players using more or less adverbs based on their alignment, I would be interested in it.
But wait, there's more! Shockwave "has no real reason" for voting Tavanio, but "that may change"? In what world does this make sense from a town mindset? That SCREAMS scum who is trying to decide whether or not he can get away with attacking Tavanio.
While completely unnecessary, I don't think that reminding people he might change his mind comes from a scum mindset. Right now, he's saying he has a town, or at least neutral read on me. That means that if he starts to attack me, he won't be able to say that he always had a slightly scummy read on me, and will have to point to what changed between this post and the last. As scum, he wouldn't want to remind everyone that his read on me might change, he would want to be able to start attacking me without ever having said anything about me.
It's assumed that reads change, town don't need to explain that. Scum, on the other hand, like to use wishy-washy language that sets up future change. I've done this as town and seen others do this as town, but it does have an increased likelihood from scum.
Yes, that's exactly what I posted. It's assumed that reads change - therefore scum don't have to post that theirs might. This isn't wishy-washy language, he's saying clearly that at the time of making the post he doesn't read me as scum.
Is there any reason you feel the need to defend Shockwave?
I don't read him as scum, and am not convinced the attack on him comes from a town mindset. My goal wasn't to defend Shockwave, it was to argue against what I believe to be a poor attack.
It's difficult for me to get a read on this post, however. While your analysis seems townish, you're also a lot more confident than I would expect you to be as town. You go after multiple players with fairly weak attacks, which also would come from a scum mindset. However, this is not enough for a vote at this point. IGMEOY
Tanarin's post barning yours is much more scummy. Not just because he's barning, but because he's barning a weak argument. Fos: Tanarin because my vote's on kazekirimaru until he explains his barn of Iso because that one's barning a vote with no reason given, not a vote with poor reason given.
Why does your disagreement with Tar's post make someone agreeing with it scummy? Why do you feel the need to explain the FOS so much?
Unvote; Vote: Tavanio
That first question should be obvious - If someone follows what I consider to be a weak and possibly anti-town argument, then they are scummy. Scum would be eager to see an argument and join it, Town would be eager to see an argument and dissect it, then decide whether or not to join it. Since dissecting it reveals it to be flawed, I would think that Town wouldn't join it.
I explained the FOS to save time from having to explain it later. It seems only natural that after posting more about Tanarin and Taredas than kazekirimaru, people would ask why I didn't vote one of them instead. While it could be read as scum being self-conscious, the real reason is that I believe explaining why you do the things you do helps the town.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Reason for frustration... Not legally available for discussion. Breach of basic mafia rules if I did. There's a reason why I said I need a usable history in a post.
Yeah, I think I might know why you're getting frustrated this game. But you shouldn't make reference to it any more. That wasn't brought up by me, though, it was brought up by Tanarin.
I'm having a hard time inserting myself into the discussion.
That's what I get for sleeping till 6 PM the day a mafia begins...
Anywho, I thought I should mention that there are valid reasons for why Shockwave is acting the way he is.
I imagine that there is at least one other, quite possibly two, who also know why.
Anywho, I thought I should mention that there are valid reasons for why Shockwave is acting the way he is.
I imagine that there is at least one other, quite possibly two, who also know why.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So Iso, Kosa, and Taredas are the only players I know in this game. I also recognize Tanarin, but I can't remember from where.
So, my plan is to be totally useless and lurk a whole bunch til the middle of day 1, when I will do ridiculous long catch-up posts and catch scum that no-one will help me lynch til Day 3-4 (since it's a mini).
Anywho, I thought I should mention that there are valid reasons for why Shockwave is acting the way he is.
I imagine that there is at least one other, quite possibly two, who also know why.
His scumbuddies?
Funny you should be the one to ask.
You were one of the two others.
So Iso, Kosa, and Taredas are the only players I know in this game. I also recognize Tanarin, but I can't remember from where.
So, my plan is to be totally useless and lurk a whole bunch til the middle of day 1, when I will do ridiculous long catch-up posts and catch scum that no-one will help me lynch til Day 3-4 (since it's a mini).
Anywho, I thought I should mention that there are valid reasons for why Shockwave is acting the way he is.
I imagine that there is at least one other, quite possibly two, who also know why.
His scumbuddies?
Funny you should be the one to ask.
You were one of the two others.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So Iso, Kosa, and Taredas are the only players I know in this game. I also recognize Tanarin, but I can't remember from where.
So, my plan is to be totally useless and lurk a whole bunch til the middle of day 1, when I will do ridiculous long catch-up posts and catch scum that no-one will help me lynch til Day 3-4 (since it's a mini).
Anywho, I thought I should mention that there are valid reasons for why Shockwave is acting the way he is.
I imagine that there is at least one other, quite possibly two, who also know why.
His scumbuddies?
Funny you should be the one to ask.
You were one of the two others.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Tanarin's post barning yours is much more scummy. Not just because he's barning, but because he's barning a weak argument. Fos: Tanarin because my vote's on kazekirimaru until he explains his barn of Iso because that one's barning a vote with no reason given, not a vote with poor reason given.
Said as if having strong arguments 2-4 hours after game start is a common occurrence. Really though, at this early stage of the game, most early wagons form based off of weak wagons. The reason this happens is because these early wagons provide info and interactions between the other players that later on can build stronger and stronger cases.
@shockwave: Why the reaction for Tare's vote? It is only a 2 vote wagon, yet you are coming at him like it is a lynching vote.
No, having strong arguments isn't common, and yes, wagons provide information. That doesn't mean you should hop on a wagon for the sole purpose of hopping on a wagon. Wagons provide information because of the reasons people join them, and people's responses to having a wagon formed against them. If the only reason you jump on a wagon is "too get information," you defeat that purpose.
Yes, you may miss seeing the reasons for people voting, but surely the other reason (people's responses to a wagon,) is not info in and of itself, right? There is also the whole post wagon analysis, which is more info that we gain later in the game. Is that not worth anything in your mind? Also, in a very early wagon like we are discussing now, most reasons are gonna overlap so much it is going to basically be a /barn anyway. Is a long drawn out reason THAT much better than a /barn in this case? Or even a naked vote for that matter?
For now Unvote. I think honestly think Tavanio was just pulling RVS shennanigans. In fact that first post is too obvious a lie to be taken seriously right now. Only reason why I voted him are for currently classified reason.
I cannot share them. If I do I will die of a well hidden cherry bomb that will gib me into chocolate chips.
The other post of his(?) still sounds that way as well. Why share that?
At the moment I have no real reason for voting him. That may change.
Okay, people, take a good look. RVS is over, because this post did not come from town.
Seriously, look at this post. Tavanio "honestly thinks" that Tavanio was just pulling RVS shenanigans? That's self-conscious as hell. Moreover, that extra "think" suggests that Shockwave had to think about whether or not to include the "honestly", which suggests that he's scum who was thinking about how best to phrase his post to avoid detection.
But wait, there's more! Shockwave "has no real reason" for voting Tavanio, but "that may change"? In what world does this make sense from a town mindset? That SCREAMS scum who is trying to decide whether or not he can get away with attacking Tavanio.
I agree with this being a post coming from a scum mindset. That's how I read it as well.
One major difference though: "have no real reason" and "that may change" gives me the impression that he doesn't want to bus his buddy just yet.
Which probably means that if Shockwave flips scum, we shouldn't autoconclude that Tavanio is town (your reasoning) or scum (my reasoning).
Seriously, look at this post. Tavanio "honestly thinks" that Tavanio was just pulling RVS shenanigans? That's self-conscious as hell. Moreover, that extra "think" suggests that Shockwave had to think about whether or not to include the "honestly", which suggests that he's scum who was thinking about how best to phrase his post to avoid detection.
Or he's a new player that doesn't want to be lynched early, and so is being careful about how to phrase things. Or he cares about writing well. Extraneous adverbs aren't a scum tell, as far as I'm aware.
But wait, there's more! Shockwave "has no real reason" for voting Tavanio, but "that may change"? In what world does this make sense from a town mindset? That SCREAMS scum who is trying to decide whether or not he can get away with attacking Tavanio.
While completely unnecessary, I don't think that reminding people he might change his mind comes from a scum mindset. Right now, he's saying he has a town, or at least neutral read on me. That means that if he starts to attack me, he won't be able to say that he always had a slightly scummy read on me, and will have to point to what changed between this post and the last. As scum, he wouldn't want to remind everyone that his read on me might change, he would want to be able to start attacking me without ever having said anything about me.
Why go to such lengths to defend Shockwave? I'm sure he can speak for himself without you handing him the answers he needs?
(I know this question resembles what AG already asked you, but your answer didn't satisfy me)
Yes, you may miss seeing the reasons for people voting, but surely the other reason (people's responses to a wagon,) is not info in and of itself, right? There is also the whole post wagon analysis, which is more info that we gain later in the game. Is that not worth anything in your mind? Also, in a very early wagon like we are discussing now, most reasons are gonna overlap so much it is going to basically be a /barn anyway. Is a long drawn out reason THAT much better than a /barn in this case? Or even a naked vote for that matter?
What response could there be to a wagon where the only reason for it existing is to get information other than "That's not a good reason for a wagon?" No, a long drawn out reason isn't better than a /barn of a good case. However, since I find the reasoning for the argument you followed fairly flimsy (sorry for the alliteration), barning it isn't good, and I would almost say worse than a naked vote. Barning a poor argument comes from a scum mindset, as I explained earlier.
Seriously, look at this post. Tavanio "honestly thinks" that Tavanio was just pulling RVS shenanigans? That's self-conscious as hell. Moreover, that extra "think" suggests that Shockwave had to think about whether or not to include the "honestly", which suggests that he's scum who was thinking about how best to phrase his post to avoid detection.
Or he's a new player that doesn't want to be lynched early, and so is being careful about how to phrase things. Or he cares about writing well. Extraneous adverbs aren't a scum tell, as far as I'm aware.
But wait, there's more! Shockwave "has no real reason" for voting Tavanio, but "that may change"? In what world does this make sense from a town mindset? That SCREAMS scum who is trying to decide whether or not he can get away with attacking Tavanio.
While completely unnecessary, I don't think that reminding people he might change his mind comes from a scum mindset. Right now, he's saying he has a town, or at least neutral read on me. That means that if he starts to attack me, he won't be able to say that he always had a slightly scummy read on me, and will have to point to what changed between this post and the last. As scum, he wouldn't want to remind everyone that his read on me might change, he would want to be able to start attacking me without ever having said anything about me.
Why go to such lengths to defend Shockwave? I'm sure he can speak for himself without you handing him the answers he needs?
(I know this question resembles what AG already asked you, but your answer didn't satisfy me)
Well, too bad if my answer didn't satisfy you. He can speak for himself, but am I supposed to ignore poor attacks? I wasn't aware that in mafia, only the person being attacked by an argument is permitted to analyze it. It is interesting to note that nobody has actually responded to my analysis of the case against Shockwave - People have asked why I made it and defended their barning of the case, but nobody has straight-up defended the case. Tanarin has admitted to barning a weak argument, kazekirimaru has admitted to just trying to create a wagon. The person that's come the closest is AG, but he didn't defend the original argument so much as attack my new one.
By the way, unrelatedly, could anyone explain to me how the phrase "/barn" or "barning" came about? I know what they mean, but I'm somewhat curious about how that particular term came to be.
This makes three times Kazekirimaru has jumped onto a wagon without giving any real reasons, and this time on somebody he was reading as town. The reason of self-voting would make sense if he hadn't already said he thought he was town. When Kaze (Is it alright if I shorten it to that?) said he was reading Iso as town, Iso had been acting more or less the same. The only thing that changed was the self-vote, which is in-line with how Iso had been acting and as far as I understand how Iso plays in general.
At this stage of the game town tend not to jump in front of wagons. Reads aren't strong enough yet for that type of behavior. Scum know full well that the person they are defending is town and so will defend that person prematurely. Town may mention a town read on a player or jump to their defense later on in the wagon, but I don't see them jump to defend a player when they rack up 2-3 votes immediately following RVS. Your response was less about pointing out why Taredas' attack was scummy and more about pointing out why Shockwave was town. "Weak" and "scummy" are not necessarily synonymous and all you've said is that the attack was weak; that is a defense of Shockwave, not an attack at Taredas. I agree with you that Shockwave could easily be town, but is status as town or scum doesn't effect whether your defense was town-motivated or not.
Kazekirumari's shift between posts 53 and 75 is disconcerting, but I think your overeager defense hasn't been explained properly yet. What does defending Shockwave this quickly do? Do you trust your town read on Shockwave so much that you don't even need to see his reaction to pressure? Wouldn't letting Shockwave react to the attack provide support for your town read on him?
At this stage of the game town tend not to jump in front of wagons. Reads aren't strong enough yet for that type of behavior. Scum know full well that the person they are defending is town and so will defend that person prematurely. Town may mention a town read on a player or jump to their defense later on in the wagon, but I don't see them jump to defend a player when they rack up 2-3 votes immediately following RVS. Your response was less about pointing out why Taredas' attack was scummy and more about pointing out why Shockwave was town. "Weak" and "scummy" are not necessarily synonymous and all you've said is that the attack was weak; that is a defense of Shockwave, not an attack at Taredas. I agree with you that Shockwave could easily be town, but is status as town or scum doesn't effect whether your defense was town-motivated or not.
Hence why I didn't vote or FoS Taredas. Barning a weak attack, however, is scummy, hence the FoS on Tanarin.
Kazekirumari's shift between posts 53 and 75 is disconcerting, but I think your overeager defense hasn't been explained properly yet. What does defending Shockwave this quickly do? Do you trust your town read on Shockwave so much that you don't even need to see his reaction to pressure? Wouldn't letting Shockwave react to the attack provide support for your town read on him?
Not much had happened in the game, and I was excited things were actually starting to happen.
I did wait for his reaction (post 48)- He was frustrated, annoyed at being accused, and didn't defend himself. I didn't expect him to make a post actually attacking the argument based on that response.
Kasekurimaru is awfully jumpy... Switching votes and leans on whim it almost seems...
Vote:Kasekurimaru
His play is suspicious the more looking for wagons than hunting it seems. True, you can't get a lynch without a wagon, but I think a player should look for something more than that!
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But wait, there's more! Shockwave "has no real reason" for voting Tavanio, but "that may change"? In what world does this make sense from a town mindset? That SCREAMS scum who is trying to decide whether or not he can get away with attacking Tavanio.
While completely unnecessary, I don't think that reminding people he might change his mind comes from a scum mindset. Right now, he's saying he has a town, or at least neutral read on me. That means that if he starts to attack me, he won't be able to say that he always had a slightly scummy read on me, and will have to point to what changed between this post and the last. As scum, he wouldn't want to remind everyone that his read on me might change, he would want to be able to start attacking me without ever having said anything about me.
Coaching in plain sight?
I don't like the interactions between Shockwave and Tavanio. Shock's defensiveness of Tav early on looks forced. I also don't see how the number of scum in Tav's first post is relevant...?
Kaze is behaving... not speaking, but behaving... as though we are still in RVS. He's jumping all over the place with no reasoning, and also /barn the contradiction comments. Town!reading Iso early, and then scum!reading Iso just because of the self-vote after Pope's post?
Also, from my experience, Taredas's post pointing out seemingly arbitrary comments and questioning the creator on their intent is par for the course for him in the early game. Null.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I never legitimately read Iso as town. That was a lie to see how he reacted. Unfortunately, he didn't give me any good reads and said something like "come at me bro" which I have no idea what to make of.
Iso is scum.
All of his posts thus far have been substance-less. He's derpvoting himself, asking other people who to vote, complaining that he can't get reads, so on and so forth. Fluff, fluff, fluff.
The problem here is fluff posts like this perpetuate an air of "I'm not accountable for my actions. These posts mean nothing. Derpderpderp." This makes it difficult to get early game reads. And you know what? Obfuscation is pretty scummy.
I dove into his meta a bit(not extremely thoroughly, I must admit - I hate meta) and his play is...eclectic at best. I tried to get a read on whether or not Iso is fluffy as town/scum or regardless of such, and he appears to just play different every game. So, I'm not gonna try to meta him here.
I haven't played with Iso in a while, so I can't speak of him in recent times, but from what I remember of Iso, this game is not a good indication as to how he usually plays, at all.
He is also greatly aware of meta as a tool, so I don't find it likely that scum Iso would willingly pull suspicion his way by acting dramatically different from the norm.
I'm not saying that he's town because he is playing this way; I just don't believe it would be a good idea to use this as a good reason to judge his alignment right now.
I -just- played as scum with Iso and he played nothing like this.
I've read games of him as scum where he played much like this.
I've read games of him as both alignments being weirder than this.
So, again, I'm not going to meta Iso. I'm running on good ol' fashion analysis and maybe a bit of gut as well.
Obviously meant to quote like this:
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
lol
- Stated earlier.
- Because I wanted to know?
My reasons should be obvious.
Wagons, you plebe. Wagons are a tool. Wagons are a good thing.
Simple as that.
I read the game where Iso went after Guardman based on his dream. I was referencing Iso's prior misadventures with Mafia dreams.
They actually are a scum tell. Scum like to throw on adverbs, Seppel goes after "honestly" specifically as town shouldn't have need to remind everyone that they are posting "honestly" while scum feel worried and include it as emphasis.
It's assumed that reads change, town don't need to explain that. Scum, on the other hand, like to use wishy-washy language that sets up future change. I've done this as town and seen others do this as town, but it does have an increased likelihood from scum.
Is there any reason you feel the need to defend Shockwave?
Why does your disagreement with Tar's post make someone agreeing with it scummy? Why do you feel the need to explain the FOS so much?
Unvote; Vote: Tavanio
And what about "actually?"
While your idea sounds reasonable in theory, I firmly believe that it comes down to personal preference more than alignment. Some people like adverbs, some people don't. If you could provide me examples of players using more or less adverbs based on their alignment, I would be interested in it.
Yes, that's exactly what I posted. It's assumed that reads change - therefore scum don't have to post that theirs might. This isn't wishy-washy language, he's saying clearly that at the time of making the post he doesn't read me as scum.
I don't read him as scum, and am not convinced the attack on him comes from a town mindset. My goal wasn't to defend Shockwave, it was to argue against what I believe to be a poor attack.
That first question should be obvious - If someone follows what I consider to be a weak and possibly anti-town argument, then they are scummy. Scum would be eager to see an argument and join it, Town would be eager to see an argument and dissect it, then decide whether or not to join it. Since dissecting it reveals it to be flawed, I would think that Town wouldn't join it.
I explained the FOS to save time from having to explain it later. It seems only natural that after posting more about Tanarin and Taredas than kazekirimaru, people would ask why I didn't vote one of them instead. While it could be read as scum being self-conscious, the real reason is that I believe explaining why you do the things you do helps the town.
come at me bro
-
This game is weird. Normally I have 2+ of the scum figured out by now.
As it is, I'm not sure where I want to go.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Reason for frustration... Not legally available for discussion. Breach of basic mafia rules if I did. There's a reason why I said I need a usable history in a post.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
That's what I get for sleeping till 6 PM the day a mafia begins...
Anywho, I thought I should mention that there are valid reasons for why Shockwave is acting the way he is.
I imagine that there is at least one other, quite possibly two, who also know why.
Basic 82: Hayate the Combat Butler Mafia
Town Doctor, NK N1
Mini: Drury Lane Mafia
Replaced out D1
Mafia "Stuffer"
Basic 80: Sesame Street Mafia
Town Mason, NK N1
Scum Victory
Basic 68: Mr. Potato Head Mafia
Replacing Marblez D2
Town Vanilla, Lynched Last Day (D6)
Scum Victory
Mini: Eeveelution Mafia
Town Umbreon, Modkilled D1
Scum Victory
Mini: Deitriptychos Mafia
Town Necromancer, NK N1
Town Victory
Basic 82: Hayate the Combat Butler Mafia
Town Doctor, NK N1
Mini: Drury Lane Mafia
Replaced out D1
Mafia "Stuffer"
Basic 80: Sesame Street Mafia
Town Mason, NK N1
Scum Victory
Basic 68: Mr. Potato Head Mafia
Replacing Marblez D2
Town Vanilla, Lynched Last Day (D6)
Scum Victory
Mini: Eeveelution Mafia
Town Umbreon, Modkilled D1
Scum Victory
Mini: Deitriptychos Mafia
Town Necromancer, NK N1
Town Victory
His scumbuddies?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So, my plan is to be totally useless and lurk a whole bunch til the middle of day 1, when I will do ridiculous long catch-up posts and catch scum that no-one will help me lynch til Day 3-4 (since it's a mini).
Vote Iso
Funny you should be the one to ask.
You were one of the two others.
Basic 82: Hayate the Combat Butler Mafia
Town Doctor, NK N1
Mini: Drury Lane Mafia
Replaced out D1
Mafia "Stuffer"
Basic 80: Sesame Street Mafia
Town Mason, NK N1
Scum Victory
Basic 68: Mr. Potato Head Mafia
Replacing Marblez D2
Town Vanilla, Lynched Last Day (D6)
Scum Victory
Mini: Eeveelution Mafia
Town Umbreon, Modkilled D1
Scum Victory
Mini: Deitriptychos Mafia
Town Necromancer, NK N1
Town Victory
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Missed you, too, Popey.
Well now I want you to explain.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So I can't.
Basic 82: Hayate the Combat Butler Mafia
Town Doctor, NK N1
Mini: Drury Lane Mafia
Replaced out D1
Mafia "Stuffer"
Basic 80: Sesame Street Mafia
Town Mason, NK N1
Scum Victory
Basic 68: Mr. Potato Head Mafia
Replacing Marblez D2
Town Vanilla, Lynched Last Day (D6)
Scum Victory
Mini: Eeveelution Mafia
Town Umbreon, Modkilled D1
Scum Victory
Mini: Deitriptychos Mafia
Town Necromancer, NK N1
Town Victory
Is it an on-going game?
If so, just say it so we can move on.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Anyway, I have no idea where that leaves us.
Someone tell me who to vote.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
that guy deserves a policy lynch every game
Unvote, Vote Iso
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This feels better.
You're not town this game, are you?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll give you a proper meta-dive tomorrow but my vote feels real good here for now.
So...by all means.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yes, you may miss seeing the reasons for people voting, but surely the other reason (people's responses to a wagon,) is not info in and of itself, right? There is also the whole post wagon analysis, which is more info that we gain later in the game. Is that not worth anything in your mind? Also, in a very early wagon like we are discussing now, most reasons are gonna overlap so much it is going to basically be a /barn anyway. Is a long drawn out reason THAT much better than a /barn in this case? Or even a naked vote for that matter?
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
There maybe a grain of truth to vote patterns, but still too early for me to make the connections. Hopefully I last long enough to learn a few things.
In the *Parental Advisory* game!!!
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
I did, but that doesn't change anything?
Still a very self-aware response.
I agree with this being a post coming from a scum mindset. That's how I read it as well.
One major difference though: "have no real reason" and "that may change" gives me the impression that he doesn't want to bus his buddy just yet.
Which probably means that if Shockwave flips scum, we shouldn't autoconclude that Tavanio is town (your reasoning) or scum (my reasoning).
Why go to such lengths to defend Shockwave? I'm sure he can speak for himself without you handing him the answers he needs?
(I know this question resembles what AG already asked you, but your answer didn't satisfy me)
That's a fast town read. Reasoning?
What response could there be to a wagon where the only reason for it existing is to get information other than "That's not a good reason for a wagon?" No, a long drawn out reason isn't better than a /barn of a good case. However, since I find the reasoning for the argument you followed fairly flimsy (sorry for the alliteration), barning it isn't good, and I would almost say worse than a naked vote. Barning a poor argument comes from a scum mindset, as I explained earlier.
Well, too bad if my answer didn't satisfy you. He can speak for himself, but am I supposed to ignore poor attacks? I wasn't aware that in mafia, only the person being attacked by an argument is permitted to analyze it. It is interesting to note that nobody has actually responded to my analysis of the case against Shockwave - People have asked why I made it and defended their barning of the case, but nobody has straight-up defended the case. Tanarin has admitted to barning a weak argument, kazekirimaru has admitted to just trying to create a wagon. The person that's come the closest is AG, but he didn't defend the original argument so much as attack my new one.
By the way, unrelatedly, could anyone explain to me how the phrase "/barn" or "barning" came about? I know what they mean, but I'm somewhat curious about how that particular term came to be.
EWP: Whoa, how did I miss this?
This makes three times Kazekirimaru has jumped onto a wagon without giving any real reasons, and this time on somebody he was reading as town. The reason of self-voting would make sense if he hadn't already said he thought he was town. When Kaze (Is it alright if I shorten it to that?) said he was reading Iso as town, Iso had been acting more or less the same. The only thing that changed was the self-vote, which is in-line with how Iso had been acting and as far as I understand how Iso plays in general.
Kazekirumari's shift between posts 53 and 75 is disconcerting, but I think your overeager defense hasn't been explained properly yet. What does defending Shockwave this quickly do? Do you trust your town read on Shockwave so much that you don't even need to see his reaction to pressure? Wouldn't letting Shockwave react to the attack provide support for your town read on him?
Hence why I didn't vote or FoS Taredas. Barning a weak attack, however, is scummy, hence the FoS on Tanarin.
Not much had happened in the game, and I was excited things were actually starting to happen.
I did wait for his reaction (post 48)- He was frustrated, annoyed at being accused, and didn't defend himself. I didn't expect him to make a post actually attacking the argument based on that response.
Vote:Kasekurimaru
His play is suspicious the more looking for wagons than hunting it seems. True, you can't get a lynch without a wagon, but I think a player should look for something more than that!
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Vote:Kasekirimaru
Kiri not kuri...
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Was this sarcastic?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Coaching in plain sight?
I don't like the interactions between Shockwave and Tavanio. Shock's defensiveness of Tav early on looks forced. I also don't see how the number of scum in Tav's first post is relevant...?
Kaze is behaving... not speaking, but behaving... as though we are still in RVS. He's jumping all over the place with no reasoning, and also /barn the contradiction comments. Town!reading Iso early, and then scum!reading Iso just because of the self-vote after Pope's post?
Also, from my experience, Taredas's post pointing out seemingly arbitrary comments and questioning the creator on their intent is par for the course for him in the early game. Null.
I'm liking AG.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso is scum.
All of his posts thus far have been substance-less. He's derpvoting himself, asking other people who to vote, complaining that he can't get reads, so on and so forth. Fluff, fluff, fluff.
The problem here is fluff posts like this perpetuate an air of "I'm not accountable for my actions. These posts mean nothing. Derpderpderp." This makes it difficult to get early game reads. And you know what? Obfuscation is pretty scummy.
I dove into his meta a bit(not extremely thoroughly, I must admit - I hate meta) and his play is...eclectic at best. I tried to get a read on whether or not Iso is fluffy as town/scum or regardless of such, and he appears to just play different every game. So, I'm not gonna try to meta him here.
So, yeah. Iso. Lynch that guy.
#RockTheVote #Iso2013
He is also greatly aware of meta as a tool, so I don't find it likely that scum Iso would willingly pull suspicion his way by acting dramatically different from the norm.
I'm not saying that he's town because he is playing this way; I just don't believe it would be a good idea to use this as a good reason to judge his alignment right now.
Basic 82: Hayate the Combat Butler Mafia
Town Doctor, NK N1
Mini: Drury Lane Mafia
Replaced out D1
Mafia "Stuffer"
Basic 80: Sesame Street Mafia
Town Mason, NK N1
Scum Victory
Basic 68: Mr. Potato Head Mafia
Replacing Marblez D2
Town Vanilla, Lynched Last Day (D6)
Scum Victory
Mini: Eeveelution Mafia
Town Umbreon, Modkilled D1
Scum Victory
Mini: Deitriptychos Mafia
Town Necromancer, NK N1
Town Victory
I've read games of him as scum where he played much like this.
I've read games of him as both alignments being weirder than this.
So, again, I'm not going to meta Iso. I'm running on good ol' fashion analysis and maybe a bit of gut as well.
Basic 82: Hayate the Combat Butler Mafia
Town Doctor, NK N1
Mini: Drury Lane Mafia
Replaced out D1
Mafia "Stuffer"
Basic 80: Sesame Street Mafia
Town Mason, NK N1
Scum Victory
Basic 68: Mr. Potato Head Mafia
Replacing Marblez D2
Town Vanilla, Lynched Last Day (D6)
Scum Victory
Mini: Eeveelution Mafia
Town Umbreon, Modkilled D1
Scum Victory
Mini: Deitriptychos Mafia
Town Necromancer, NK N1
Town Victory