@TMCT:
No. I would like to here your thought process on this please.
@DCIII:
You're admitted that you believed to have knowingly Town slipped. With that being said it sounds like you tried to force a Town slip rather than letting it come naturally.
Vote: DCIII
Please explain yourself a little bit here.
What TMCT caught onto is that I didn't read Asian Invasion's flavor/sample PM so all of my early reads were based on the fact that I have Walker in my role PM and didn't realize that everyone else who was Town did. I thought that TMCT's initial gambit was because he had it as his role, too, rather than seeing that from Asian's flavor.
Once TMCT called it a town slip, I figured out why he was saying that, and that my initial assumptions were moot because of initial post, and agreed with his conclusion. Where do you draw the conclusion that I said I knowingly slipped? Because I did not.
I'm saying that you jumped on the easy wagon early when everyone in the game was focused on BE already and he hadn't yet responded to their focus.
How does three players (mirrorentity, Antny and Rhand) and one vote constitute "everyone in the game" focusing on B_E? I think you're town trying hard to scumhunt, and that's good, but you're chainsaw defending B_E because he/she is new, and that isn't. Let them come to their own defense.
Of the four that have posted so far I do have a strong town read on one.
Well, you should probably have a strong town read on Joss/TMCT because he name claimed Walker first, which is going to be common, and knew that it would be common enough to suggest the name claim. Don't think he would have known or thought to do that without being that role.
The mod's post says that all town roles are Walkers.
How does three players (mirrorentity, Antny and Rhand) and one vote constitute "everyone in the game" focusing on B_E? I think you're town trying hard to scumhunt, and that's good, but you're chainsaw defending B_E because he/she is new, and that isn't. Let them come to their own defense.
Everyone who was posting at the time, true, not everyone in the game. Point being that there was a ton of focus on BE
I haven't defended BE's actions at all - and have a question outstanding to him. I have focused on your behavior and actions in relation to BE and the game state.
My argument on you is not a comment on BE's alignment, or need to respond to the questions posed to him.
@Everyone
If you understand why DCIII townslipped, please indicate so in your next post. A simple "yes" or "no."
Ah. Yes.
I'm not so sure about your explanation. You could have easily faked not reading the OP to get that across... Hmm... The only thing nagging at me is that I don't see two Scum buddies trying themselves to each other this early in the game.
Unvote
I'm going to need to see more before I make a decision on the two of you.
DCIII - Chainsaw defense means you're defending B_E by virtue of attacking his attacker, not literally defending him.
Just clarifying in case you weren't familiar with the term, since you're fairly new too.
And again, you have not sufficiently explained how a vote on a player who has made a scummy post is bad, pressure or no pressure. Unless you're putting a player at claim range or hammering, what reason is there to wait to vote when you see something that indicates a scum mindset?
Because it's an explanation that didn't need to be made in the first place. What ME said in #57 didn't necessarily warrant a vote (i.e. it wasn't scummy that he didn't vote B_E in #57), but he felt the need to make an explanation for why he didn't when Nny called him out on it. He felt pressure and folded. As for the the specifics of the explanation? Whatever, it's OOG -- that's not what I have a problem with.
Because it's an explanation that didn't need to be made in the first place. What ME said in #57 didn't necessarily warrant a vote (i.e. it wasn't scummy that he didn't vote B_E in #57), but he felt the need to make an explanation for why he didn't when Nny called him out on it. He felt pressure and folded. As for the the specifics of the explanation? Whatever, it's OOG -- that's not what I have a problem with.
You called it 'the worst explanation ever', not 'the least necessary explanation ever'.
@Everyone
If you understand why DCIII townslipped, please indicate so in your next post. A simple "yes" or "no."
Ah. Yes.
I'm not so sure about your explanation. You could have easily faked not reading the OP to get that across... Hmm... The only thing nagging at me is that I don't see two Scum buddies trying themselves to each other this early in the game.
Unvote
I'm going to need to see more before I make a decision on the two of you.
The question was if we understood why it was a townslip. The "Yes" was because I had figured it out.
@DCIII:
You're telling me that you cannot fit my view into what you did?
"If you understand why DCIII townslipped, please indicate so in your next post. A simple 'yes' or 'no'."
The question itself, while directed at everyone, is a loaded question for you.
Any answer you give will be suspect because no one knows whether you are telling the truth.
So, for you to answer "yes" shows that either you were aware of yourself making the Townslip or that TMCT noticed a Townslip and attempted to show it to everyone to help out a buddy. At a further possibility is that TMCT is Town and noticed a Townslip and pointed it out for the rest of the Town to see to help clear someone for toDay. While it is Town motivated it is not thought out very well and, if this is the case, TMCT should have kept this information to himself for the time being. It would have been a good way to try and catch opportunistic Scum if it were a Townslip.
DCIII - Chainsaw defense means you're defending B_E by virtue of attacking his attacker, not literally defending him.
Just clarifying in case you weren't familiar with the term, since you're fairly new too.
And again, you have not sufficiently explained how a vote on a player who has made a scummy post is bad, pressure or no pressure. Unless you're putting a player at claim range or hammering, what reason is there to wait to vote when you see something that indicates a scum mindset?
Wasn't familiar with the chainsaw defense term but I disagree that my argument on you should alleviate the need for Burning Earth to explain himself, because it doesn't.
I did address why I thought the vote was telling in your situation.
You're right that, with no other context, a vote on a player who has made a scummy post is not bad, otherwise no one would ever be lynched. But that's a straw-man of my argument.
My argument is on #65 and considers both the game state and that I also view the double RVS vote outside of RVS and the comment toward Shock as scummy.
@DCIII:
You're telling me that you cannot fit my view into what you did?
"If you understand why DCIII townslipped, please indicate so in your next post. A simple 'yes' or 'no'."
The question itself, while directed at everyone, is a loaded question for you.
Any answer you give will be suspect because no one knows whether you are telling the truth.
So, for you to answer "yes" shows that either you were aware of yourself making the Townslip or that TMCT noticed a Townslip and attempted to show it to everyone to help out a buddy. At a further possibility is that TMCT is Town and noticed a Townslip and pointed it out for the rest of the Town to see to help clear someone for toDay. While it is Town motivated it is not thought out very well and, if this is the case, TMCT should have kept this information to himself for the time being. It would have been a good way to try and catch opportunistic Scum if it were a Townslip.
I skimmed through the initial AI post and didn't see the game specific rule or open the sample PM and posted my initial thoughts on players in #40 under that context.
TMCT called it a townslip and asked everyone if they understood why it was. I then tried to figure out why he thought I town slipped. In doing so, I read AI's post and saw the rule, so I understood where TMCT was coming from, so I responded, "Ah. Yes." because I had figured it out at that point.
I did not know I had made the slip when I did.
I interpreted TMCT's actions as him catching that I was Town, calling that out, but wanting to keep the specific slip under wraps in case it manifested itself in ways that would catch scum. If scum didn't read that all Town players were named Walker, and they either said something else or were reluctant to say their role name, that could be helpful. This was the only motivation that I thought of at the time and I had initially thought that's what TMCT was doing all along only making the deduction that there were a lot of Walkers from reading his own PM rather than from reading AI's post. I did not consider Rhand's hypothesis that TMCT could be clearning me for town cred - which is also why I questioned why Nny pointed it out in my #61.
Of the four that have posted so far I do have a strong town read on one.
Well, you should probably have a strong town read on Joss/TMCT because he name claimed Walker first, which is going to be common, and knew that it would be common enough to suggest the name claim. Don't think he would have known or thought to do that without being that role.
The mod's post says that all town roles are Walkers.
Which is why I read TMCT as town. He's looking for a slip. A scum that is excited to have a certain character or a sleeping scum that hasn't read the OP.
On the other hand, I agree with Rhand re:Burning Earth's "I am a walker", and the desire to avoid RVS looks like a scum mindset of trying to stay under the radar.
Vote Burning Earth
Real vote
Not one but two RVS joke votes after RVS (TMCT ended RVS before it even began) when there's legit stuff going on and, from what I've read, you tend to get serious when legit stuff starts happening. Also, feeling the need to clarify that the second isn't a real vote.
"Pings my radar" statement about Shockwave while removing commitment to the opinion in the same sentence.
Opportunistic vote on Burning Earth.
Vote: DKingsland967
I have no problem with how DK conducted himself. RVS went quick. You see it all the time, someone misses out and makes their first post a quick random one then onto the game.
@DCIII:
You're admitted that you believed to have knowingly Town slipped. With that being said it sounds like you tried to force a Town slip rather than letting it come naturally.
This.
Vote Mirroretity
She's coming across as very self conscious and nervous, trying not to rub anyone the wrong way.
These posts here show what I'm talking about. It as if she doesn't want TMCT to get on her case. She's trying to warm up to him. Look at her calling TMCT town multiple times. She even has to declare that she's serious in calling him town.
@DCIII - The post in question was my first post and as you observed most people were still pretty light hearted and there wasn't really much happening yet (also there were plenty of players yet to post). I don't get the anti RVS attitude from some but I'm not reading any of it as being mafia related. That said BE second post confused me and but I will wait until he returns until I worry about it again.
@Kraj, TMCT - Basically all I was saying was I'm giving the mafia the benefit of doubt of spotting that all players are Walker in the pregame posts and therefore the first nine will all say Walker (mostly on the back of TMCT first post asking everyone to declare town which is fairly pointless) leaving the last three to show up being the ones 'not Walker'. It wasn't a serious post. I guess in hindsight it could have worked but I'm not convinced that the odd a walker over Walker (BE wasn't the only one to do this btw) indicates scum at this time.
Hello all. So, there is a case on me. Based around the facts that
1: I didn't randomly vote. I'm sorry, if that is a scum tell, I will randomly vote from now on. However I didn't see what randomly voting could add really.
2: I referred to myself as a walker not Walker. Erm, it said there was more than one walker. There would be. I just referred to myself as one of them, as did two other people.
@Kraj - this is my fourth game. One completed, one I'm not active in, another I am active in. I don't consider myself experienced, but I'm working on it.
Thank you, that helps my read on one of your tells.
I should probably get around to watching Walking Dead first. Soon. What are your thoughts on mirrorentity?
Yes, you should. It's amazing. Be patient when the pacing gets really slow; they're just taking time to develop characters and make things more meaningful when the action hits again.
I like mirrorentity's content level, which in my experience is a town tell since I can't count how many games I've seen scum quietly participate just enough day 1 while the active townies hang each other. On the other hand, I don't like a lot of what I see. On the other hand, based on my notes so far I could justify voting almost everyone who has posted. So there's that.
@Kraj, TMCT - Basically all I was saying was I'm giving the mafia the benefit of doubt of spotting that all players are Walker in the pregame posts and therefore the first nine will all say Walker (mostly on the back of TMCT first post asking everyone to declare town which is fairly pointless) leaving the last three to show up being the ones 'not Walker'. It wasn't a serious post. I guess in hindsight it could have worked but I'm not convinced that the odd a walker over Walker (BE wasn't the only one to do this btw) indicates scum at this time.
I have a problem with this explanation (other than the fact that it doesn't make any sense). Can anyone spot it?
Considering they were three horrible votes I think your fine.
Yeah I think that case is pretty horrible. I didn't randomly vote! I must be scum
Well lets get active. Vote for Rhand, I want more pressure on him. He's waiting for someone else to get wagoned or someone to defend him since I've seen him on here twice and he can't bother to respond.
@Kraj, TMCT - Basically all I was saying was I'm giving the mafia the benefit of doubt of spotting that all players are Walker in the pregame posts and therefore the first nine will all say Walker (mostly on the back of TMCT first post asking everyone to declare town which is fairly pointless) leaving the last three to show up being the ones 'not Walker'. It wasn't a serious post. I guess in hindsight it could have worked but I'm not convinced that the odd a walker over Walker (BE wasn't the only one to do this btw) indicates scum at this time.
I have a problem with this explanation (other than the fact that it doesn't make any sense).
Well I'm not sure what the issue is here but if you can elaborate I'm sure I can explain. That said I still don't know what issue you could take with a post which was a joke RVS post to begin with. Surely there most be real posts worth analysing at this point.
Can anyone spot it?
Are you fishing here? Or is there really something on spot?
oh and before I go? you're reading too much into the town statements since all they do is accurately reflect what I thought to be the case at the time.
Considering they were three horrible votes I think your fine.
Yeah I think that case is pretty horrible. I didn't randomly vote! I must be scum
Well lets get active. Vote for Rhand, I want more pressure on him. He's waiting for someone else to get wagoned or someone to defend him since I've seen him on here twice and he can't bother to respond.
I'm also interested in a response from Rhand but I think we should wait. Being online and not posting isn't a sign that he's avoiding the issue. There's more than just mafia here.
@Rhand Reading over the posts at the beginning the vote for BE was pretty rash. Why did you straight vote instead of asking for clarification? Also..
Also, if you haven't seen the Bad Lip Reading of Walking Dead on YouTube, you should.
I should probably get around to watching Walking Dead first. Soon. What are your thoughts on mirrorentity?
So long for your suspicion of Burning_Earth?
I'm liking you for scum at this point.[/QUOTE]
OK, I think you have accidentally quoted the wrong part of Kraj's post here but you seem to be saying he should go after BE, for reasons different to yours (he didn't seem make any claim the whole walker thing) when he never said he had a clear belief he was mafia and only that he didn't like him not posting. There wasn't any suspicion at all as far as I could tell.
I'm in no rush to put a vote down yet but I am interested in getting some answers.
@AE: you see me in thread because I read on the phone.
When there's too much to respond to, I wait until I am on a pc because quoting is hell on the phone
@everyone: I will respond to everything when I am on a pc.
oh and before I go? you're reading too much into the town statements since all they do is accurately reflect what I thought to be the case at the time.
k bed
What you thought to be the case? Please explain.
that a bunch of town were posting, like my post said. not much else to say.
But it sounds like your mind has changed. Do you no longer read town on TMCT or am I reading too much into the tenses?
Shockwave, is that a serious vote or are you RVSing?
Steamflogger Joss is the new Cyan.
ME's post makes sense in the context she wrote it in.
DCIII did capitalize the "W" and his infamous 'townslip' post clears him for me.
What do you think of TMCT's reaction to me making this post?
Hello all. So, there is a case on me. Based around the facts that
1: I didn't randomly vote. I'm sorry, if that is a scum tell, I will randomly vote from now on. However I didn't see what randomly voting could add really.
2: I referred to myself as a walker not Walker. Erm, it said there was more than one walker. There would be. I just referred to myself as one of them, as did two other people.
Have I sufficiently explained?
1: it is often a scumtell because people who avoid randomly voting are often afraid to step on toes, which is very much a scumtell.
RVS means 'Random Voting Stage'. Random voting is what you do in RVS.
2: that's the explanation I was looking for. It was clear in ME's post, not in yours.
Also, if you haven't seen the Bad Lip Reading of Walking Dead on YouTube, you should.
So long for your suspicion of Burning_Earth?
I'm liking you for scum at this point.
Please elaborate. It'll help me form my opinion on you.
This quote got a little messed up because it's part of a snipped quote from TMCT. The question was directed at him.
I don't like how he barns me on Burning_Earth being scum and when he asks you for an opinion right after, he only does so on ME and not on Burning_Earth.
@Kraj, TMCT - Basically all I was saying was I'm giving the mafia the benefit of doubt of spotting that all players are Walker in the pregame posts and therefore the first nine will all say Walker (mostly on the back of TMCT first post asking everyone to declare town which is fairly pointless) leaving the last three to show up being the ones 'not Walker'. It wasn't a serious post. I guess in hindsight it could have worked but I'm not convinced that the odd a walker over Walker (BE wasn't the only one to do this btw) indicates scum at this time.
I have a problem with this explanation (other than the fact that it doesn't make any sense). Can anyone spot it?
Yeh, could be a warning to his buddies not to do it wrong.
Also, if you haven't seen the Bad Lip Reading of Walking Dead on YouTube, you should.
I should probably get around to watching Walking Dead first. Soon. What are your thoughts on mirrorentity?
So long for your suspicion of Burning_Earth?
I'm liking you for scum at this point.
OK, I think you have accidentally quoted the wrong part of Kraj's post here but you seem to be saying he should go after BE, for reasons different to yours (he didn't seem make any claim the whole walker thing) when he never said he had a clear belief he was mafia and only that he didn't like him not posting. There wasn't any suspicion at all as far as I could tell.
I'm in no rush to put a vote down yet but I am interested in getting some answers.
It was a quote from TMCT from a post that I cut into pieces so that I could react to it part by part.
What I was saying is that TMCT barns me on BE but immediately drops that suspicion when asking Kraj for an opinion on ME.
I fixed the quote.
The reason I immediately voted instead of only asking for clarification is because voting is our only tool during the Day and it should be used.
I am not liking how you are avoiding that.
/barn previous post... avoiding RVS is generally viewed as a scumtell. I get that some players don't enjoy it as much as others, plus a lot of people vote based on inside jokes or things from recently completed games (which you obviously don't have here yet). Just something to keep in mind for future games.
Just so everyone knows, I am pretty consistently V/LA on weekends. I may be able to post here and there, but not often and maybe not at all. I will come back to this game on Monday and re-assess.
Shockwave, is that a serious vote or are you RVSing?
Steamflogger Joss is the new Cyan.
ME's post makes sense in the context she wrote it in.
DCIII did capitalize the "W" and his infamous 'townslip' post clears him for me.
What do you think of TMCT's reaction to me making this post?
Hello all. So, there is a case on me. Based around the facts that
1: I didn't randomly vote. I'm sorry, if that is a scum tell, I will randomly vote from now on. However I didn't see what randomly voting could add really.
2: I referred to myself as a walker not Walker. Erm, it said there was more than one walker. There would be. I just referred to myself as one of them, as did two other people.
Have I sufficiently explained?
1: it is often a scumtell because people who avoid randomly voting are often afraid to step on toes, which is very much a scumtell.
RVS means 'Random Voting Stage'. Random voting is what you do in RVS.
2: that's the explanation I was looking for. It was clear in ME's post, not in yours.
Also, if you haven't seen the Bad Lip Reading of Walking Dead on YouTube, you should.
So long for your suspicion of Burning_Earth?
I'm liking you for scum at this point.
Please elaborate. It'll help me form my opinion on you.
This quote got a little messed up because it's part of a snipped quote from TMCT. The question was directed at him.
I don't like how he barns me on Burning_Earth being scum and when he asks you for an opinion right after, he only does so on ME and not on Burning_Earth.
@Kraj, TMCT - Basically all I was saying was I'm giving the mafia the benefit of doubt of spotting that all players are Walker in the pregame posts and therefore the first nine will all say Walker (mostly on the back of TMCT first post asking everyone to declare town which is fairly pointless) leaving the last three to show up being the ones 'not Walker'. It wasn't a serious post. I guess in hindsight it could have worked but I'm not convinced that the odd a walker over Walker (BE wasn't the only one to do this btw) indicates scum at this time.
I have a problem with this explanation (other than the fact that it doesn't make any sense). Can anyone spot it?
Yeh, could be a warning to his buddies not to do it wrong.
Also, if you haven't seen the Bad Lip Reading of Walking Dead on YouTube, you should.
I should probably get around to watching Walking Dead first. Soon. What are your thoughts on mirrorentity?
So long for your suspicion of Burning_Earth?
I'm liking you for scum at this point.
OK, I think you have accidentally quoted the wrong part of Kraj's post here but you seem to be saying he should go after BE, for reasons different to yours (he didn't seem make any claim the whole walker thing) when he never said he had a clear belief he was mafia and only that he didn't like him not posting. There wasn't any suspicion at all as far as I could tell.
I'm in no rush to put a vote down yet but I am interested in getting some answers.
It was a quote from TMCT from a post that I cut into pieces so that I could react to it part by part.
What I was saying is that TMCT barns me on BE but immediately drops that suspicion when asking Kraj for an opinion on ME.
I fixed the quote.
The reason I immediately voted instead of only asking for clarification is because voting is our only tool during the Day and it should be used.
I am not liking how you are avoiding that.
vote: Antny
It depends what you define as tool, since a question seems like a reasonable tool to use to me. I don't see how it's productive to try to force people to vote when their not ready. Surely that's more likely to just lead to the wrong player being lynched.
The reason I didn't straight up vote for you before was because suspicions didn't mean I thought you were Mafioso. It does now strike me as odd that there are multiple people without votes in this thread in this thread and you have gone after another new player - the second time you've done this, this game.
@AE: you see me in thread because I read on the phone.
When there's too much to respond to, I wait until I am on a pc because quoting is hell on the phone
Shockwave, is that a serious vote or are you RVSing?
Steamflogger Joss is the new Cyan.
ME's post makes sense in the context she wrote it in.
DCIII did capitalize the "W" and his infamous 'townslip' post clears him for me.
What do you think of TMCT's reaction to me making this post?
BEs post makes perfect sense and is with the context of what is going on in thread. It's his first post. He answers the two questions that are out there.
I hate how your throwing TMCT out there as a way to deflect. His reaction comes across genuine. I didn't see the all three off those claims being the same until I reread what I posted about Mirror. I was like 'what, wait a minute'. Looked back and saw the other two posts but you only single out one.
Hello all. So, there is a case on me. Based around the facts that
1: I didn't randomly vote. I'm sorry, if that is a scum tell, I will randomly vote from now on. However I didn't see what randomly voting could add really.
2: I referred to myself as a walker not Walker. Erm, it said there was more than one walker. There would be. I just referred to myself as one of them, as did two other people.
Have I sufficiently explained?
1: it is often a scumtell because people who avoid randomly voting are often afraid to step on toes, which is very much a scumtell.
Something ME looks to be doing now.
RVS means 'Random Voting Stage'. Random voting is what you do in RVS.
2: that's the explanation I was looking for. It was clear in ME's post, not in yours.
unvote Burning_Earth
This is a complete cop-out and a way for you to back-peddle.
Also, if you haven't seen the Bad Lip Reading of Walking Dead on YouTube, you should.
I should probably get around to watching Walking Dead first. Soon. What are your thoughts on mirrorentity?
So long for your suspicion of Burning_Earth?
I'm liking you for scum at this point.
OK, I think you have accidentally quoted the wrong part of Kraj's post here but you seem to be saying he should go after BE, for reasons different to yours (he didn't seem make any claim the whole walker thing) when he never said he had a clear belief he was mafia and only that he didn't like him not posting. There wasn't any suspicion at all as far as I could tell.
I'm in no rush to put a vote down yet but I am interested in getting some answers.
The reason I immediately voted instead of only asking for clarification is because voting is our only tool during the Day and it should be used.
I am not liking how you are avoiding that.
Not when people carlessly throw it around. Ever see Seppel? The tool is pressure. Pressure doesn't come with a vote it comes from not letting up. Question someone, make them accountable.
/barn previous post... avoiding RVS is generally viewed as a scumtell. I get that some players don't enjoy it as much as others, plus a lot of people vote based on inside jokes or things from recently completed games (which you obviously don't have here yet). Just something to keep in mind for future games.
It's so much a null tell. People skip out on it frequently. Most times they're over in a blink.
oh and before I go? you're reading too much into the town statements since all they do is accurately reflect what I thought to be the case at the time.
k bed
What you thought to be the case? Please explain.
that a bunch of town were posting, like my post said. not much else to say.
But it sounds like your mind has changed. Do you no longer read town on TMCT or am I reading too much into the tenses?
I haven't read the last page closely enough yet.
Mirrorentity is so noncommittal and is trying to stay on the fence.
I'm fine with either Rhand or Mirror as todays lynch.
yeh sorry about the long post. I'll try to keep them smaller.
My vote was on BE because he needed pressure. He answered well so I take it off.
If you think 'I want out' because you're reacting on it then you're wrong AE.
You're calling all votes on BE terrible, but what TMCT did was as good as a vote.
You excuse him because it seems 'genuine'. I disagree 100%: TMCT should know very well what people answered to his question. After all, he is 'hunting scum' with it. Which he isn't. It's all a facade.
TMCT must die. But Antny as well.
Quote from Antny »
It depends what you define as tool, since a question seems like a reasonable tool to use to me. I don't see how it's productive to try to force people to vote when their not ready. Surely that's more likely to just lead to the wrong player being lynched.
Nonsense. A vote on a player is not a lynch of a player.
Voting adds pressure to questioning and is useful.
Not voting is avoiding to step on toes which is scummy.
Quote from Antny »
The reason I didn't straight up vote for you before was because suspicions didn't mean I thought you were Mafioso. It does now strike me as odd that there are multiple people without votes in this thread in this thread and you have gone after another new player - the second time you've done this, this game.
vote Rhand
I am not singling you out. I am suspicious of Nny and BE as well and I have outed that.
Your vote is awful and your mindset is scummy.
According to you town should not:
* Pressure with votes
* Pursue people that haven't been pursued by others
Which are the two main ways to succesfully find scum until one is pegged sure enough to go to lynch.
My vote was on BE because he needed pressure. He answered well so I take it off.
Why did he need pressure?
If you think 'I want out' because you're reacting on it then you're wrong AE.
It has nothing to do with me but with the fact that people weren't coming aboard BEs wagon and they expressed interest in hearing from you
You're calling all votes on BE terrible, but what TMCT did was as good as a vote.
.
You excuse him because it seems 'genuine'. I disagree 100%: TMCT should know very well what people answered to his question. After all, he is 'hunting scum' with it. Which he isn't. It's all a facade.
This was his question. It doesn't have anything to do with claims.
@Everyone
If you understand why DCIII townslipped, please indicate so in your next post. A simple "yes" or "no."
Again. Your deflecting onto TMCT. You so sure that he is scum but you vote BE then Antny. Rhand your starting to flail and your spinning post to cast doubt on others. Thats never a good thing.
I meant his earlier question where he wanted everyone to say that he's Walker.
Right. I was going to have you point it out. I forgot the name change. I'll look back on how that all played out again. Now answer my first question. Why did BE need pressure?
Rhand, you're assuming town-TMCT would have been looking for someone using lowercase or "a." I wasn't. I was looking for three things:
- Someone to claim another name.
- Someone to claim Walker in a way that suggested they got it from their role PM and not the OP.
- Someone to irrationally question why I was asking for names.
Hello all. So, there is a case on me. Based around the facts that
1: I didn't randomly vote. I'm sorry, if that is a scum tell, I will randomly vote from now on. However I didn't see what randomly voting could add really.
2: I referred to myself as a walker not Walker. Erm, it said there was more than one walker. There would be. I just referred to myself as one of them, as did two other people.
Have I sufficiently explained?
1: it is often a scumtell because people who avoid randomly voting are often afraid to step on toes, which is very much a scumtell.
RVS means 'Random Voting Stage'. Random voting is what you do in RVS.
2: that's the explanation I was looking for. It was clear in ME's post, not in yours.
What's not to like about this claim. He's clearly saying he's a walker. You were trying to get a wagon going over semantics. Not something a townie would do. A scum reaching for anything to grasp onto, now that's something they would do.
But now you have to tell me. How was it clear in ME's post?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
They hate us cause they ain't us.
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Better luck next next time!
Wow that's the worst explanation ever.
Hi there scum-mirrorentity.
Ooh, good catch. This is the gift that keeps on giving.
mirrorentity, Burning_Earth, ?
I should probably get around to watching Walking Dead first. Soon. What are your thoughts on mirrorentity?
Explain this.
/barn Kraj, explain this too.
What TMCT caught onto is that I didn't read Asian Invasion's flavor/sample PM so all of my early reads were based on the fact that I have Walker in my role PM and didn't realize that everyone else who was Town did. I thought that TMCT's initial gambit was because he had it as his role, too, rather than seeing that from Asian's flavor.
Once TMCT called it a town slip, I figured out why he was saying that, and that my initial assumptions were moot because of initial post, and agreed with his conclusion. Where do you draw the conclusion that I said I knowingly slipped? Because I did not.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Missed that, point noted.
How does three players (mirrorentity, Antny and Rhand) and one vote constitute "everyone in the game" focusing on B_E? I think you're town trying hard to scumhunt, and that's good, but you're chainsaw defending B_E because he/she is new, and that isn't. Let them come to their own defense.
I like the correlation here.
We've got one player actively avoiding RVS, and another trying to stall the game state from progressing (both solid scumtells).
No, but combined with something else it can be.
This post feels like a rush to cover tracks.
Issues with DK stated, I also suspect Mirror Entity.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
First RVS post and no vote? Scumtell.
The only two times I've seen people do this was Stardust in Lucian (SK) and Iso in Polyopticon (Cult leader).
You're not town.
Fishing for townreads
A townclear
More fishing for townreads
Why is an oog explanation the worst one ever?
Seems a bit far-stretched to call him scum over this. I don't see how this is telling of alignment.
vote a town, throw suspicion on a buddy eh?
TMCT, Burning_Earth, ? seems more likely.
So long for your suspicion of Burning_Earth?
I'm liking you for scum at this point.
--------------------------------------------------
This post also doesn't come from town I think:
I dislike being non-committed.
Especially when you're calling someone else out for not voting.
Consider my vote on Burning_Earth (where it is), TMCT and Nny.
Everyone who was posting at the time, true, not everyone in the game. Point being that there was a ton of focus on BE
I haven't defended BE's actions at all - and have a question outstanding to him. I have focused on your behavior and actions in relation to BE and the game state.
My argument on you is not a comment on BE's alignment, or need to respond to the questions posed to him.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
From here:
I'm not so sure about your explanation. You could have easily faked not reading the OP to get that across... Hmm... The only thing nagging at me is that I don't see two Scum buddies trying themselves to each other this early in the game.
Unvote
I'm going to need to see more before I make a decision on the two of you.
Just clarifying in case you weren't familiar with the term, since you're fairly new too.
And again, you have not sufficiently explained how a vote on a player who has made a scummy post is bad, pressure or no pressure. Unless you're putting a player at claim range or hammering, what reason is there to wait to vote when you see something that indicates a scum mindset?
Because it's an explanation that didn't need to be made in the first place. What ME said in #57 didn't necessarily warrant a vote (i.e. it wasn't scummy that he didn't vote B_E in #57), but he felt the need to make an explanation for why he didn't when Nny called him out on it. He felt pressure and folded. As for the the specifics of the explanation? Whatever, it's OOG -- that's not what I have a problem with.
You called it 'the worst explanation ever', not 'the least necessary explanation ever'.
The question was if we understood why it was a townslip. The "Yes" was because I had figured it out.
It was not a "Yes, I intentionally slipped."
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
You're telling me that you cannot fit my view into what you did?
"If you understand why DCIII townslipped, please indicate so in your next post. A simple 'yes' or 'no'."
The question itself, while directed at everyone, is a loaded question for you.
Any answer you give will be suspect because no one knows whether you are telling the truth.
So, for you to answer "yes" shows that either you were aware of yourself making the Townslip or that TMCT noticed a Townslip and attempted to show it to everyone to help out a buddy. At a further possibility is that TMCT is Town and noticed a Townslip and pointed it out for the rest of the Town to see to help clear someone for toDay. While it is Town motivated it is not thought out very well and, if this is the case, TMCT should have kept this information to himself for the time being. It would have been a good way to try and catch opportunistic Scum if it were a Townslip.
Wasn't familiar with the chainsaw defense term but I disagree that my argument on you should alleviate the need for Burning Earth to explain himself, because it doesn't.
I did address why I thought the vote was telling in your situation.
You're right that, with no other context, a vote on a player who has made a scummy post is not bad, otherwise no one would ever be lynched. But that's a straw-man of my argument.
My argument is on #65 and considers both the game state and that I also view the double RVS vote outside of RVS and the comment toward Shock as scummy.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
I skimmed through the initial AI post and didn't see the game specific rule or open the sample PM and posted my initial thoughts on players in #40 under that context.
TMCT called it a townslip and asked everyone if they understood why it was. I then tried to figure out why he thought I town slipped. In doing so, I read AI's post and saw the rule, so I understood where TMCT was coming from, so I responded, "Ah. Yes." because I had figured it out at that point.
I did not know I had made the slip when I did.
I interpreted TMCT's actions as him catching that I was Town, calling that out, but wanting to keep the specific slip under wraps in case it manifested itself in ways that would catch scum. If scum didn't read that all Town players were named Walker, and they either said something else or were reluctant to say their role name, that could be helpful. This was the only motivation that I thought of at the time and I had initially thought that's what TMCT was doing all along only making the deduction that there were a lot of Walkers from reading his own PM rather than from reading AI's post. I did not consider Rhand's hypothesis that TMCT could be clearning me for town cred - which is also why I questioned why Nny pointed it out in my #61.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Burning Earth (3): Rhand, dkingsland967, mirrorentity
mirrorentity (2): Shockwave07, The Most Curious Thing
dkingsland967 (2): DCIII, Kraj
The Most Curious Thing (1): Antny223
DCIII (1): Void
Not Voting (3): Archmage Eternal, Burning Earth, Nny
With 12 alive, it's 7 votes to lynch.
Day One will end no later than 11:59PM EST, Wednesday, November 27th.
Which is why I read TMCT as town. He's looking for a slip. A scum that is excited to have a certain character or a sleeping scum that hasn't read the OP.
Why don't you agree?
I have no problem with how DK conducted himself. RVS went quick. You see it all the time, someone misses out and makes their first post a quick random one then onto the game.
This.
Vote Mirroretity
She's coming across as very self conscious and nervous, trying not to rub anyone the wrong way.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I really don't like what Rhand went and did. Mirrors and DCIII's posts were well before BE. Rhand why single out BE?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Unvote The Most Curious Thing
Anyway...
@DCIII - The post in question was my first post and as you observed most people were still pretty light hearted and there wasn't really much happening yet (also there were plenty of players yet to post). I don't get the anti RVS attitude from some but I'm not reading any of it as being mafia related. That said BE second post confused me and but I will wait until he returns until I worry about it again.
@Kraj, TMCT - Basically all I was saying was I'm giving the mafia the benefit of doubt of spotting that all players are Walker in the pregame posts and therefore the first nine will all say Walker (mostly on the back of TMCT first post asking everyone to declare town which is fairly pointless) leaving the last three to show up being the ones 'not Walker'. It wasn't a serious post. I guess in hindsight it could have worked but I'm not convinced that the odd a walker over Walker (BE wasn't the only one to do this btw) indicates scum at this time.
1: I didn't randomly vote. I'm sorry, if that is a scum tell, I will randomly vote from now on. However I didn't see what randomly voting could add really.
2: I referred to myself as a walker not Walker. Erm, it said there was more than one walker. There would be. I just referred to myself as one of them, as did two other people.
Have I sufficiently explained?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Thank you, that helps my read on one of your tells.
Yes, you should. It's amazing. Be patient when the pacing gets really slow; they're just taking time to develop characters and make things more meaningful when the action hits again.
I like mirrorentity's content level, which in my experience is a town tell since I can't count how many games I've seen scum quietly participate just enough day 1 while the active townies hang each other. On the other hand, I don't like a lot of what I see. On the other hand, based on my notes so far I could justify voting almost everyone who has posted. So there's that.
Please elaborate. It'll help me form my opinion on you.
I have a problem with this explanation (other than the fact that it doesn't make any sense). Can anyone spot it?
lolz
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Yeah I think that case is pretty horrible. I didn't randomly vote! I must be scum
Well lets get active. Vote for Rhand, I want more pressure on him. He's waiting for someone else to get wagoned or someone to defend him since I've seen him on here twice and he can't bother to respond.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Well I'm not sure what the issue is here but if you can elaborate I'm sure I can explain. That said I still don't know what issue you could take with a post which was a joke RVS post to begin with. Surely there most be real posts worth analysing at this point.
Are you fishing here? Or is there really something on spot?
What you thought to be the case? Please explain.
I'm also interested in a response from Rhand but I think we should wait. Being online and not posting isn't a sign that he's avoiding the issue. There's more than just mafia here.
@Rhand Reading over the posts at the beginning the vote for BE was pretty rash. Why did you straight vote instead of asking for clarification? Also..
So long for your suspicion of Burning_Earth?
I'm liking you for scum at this point.[/QUOTE]
OK, I think you have accidentally quoted the wrong part of Kraj's post here but you seem to be saying he should go after BE, for reasons different to yours (he didn't seem make any claim the whole walker thing) when he never said he had a clear belief he was mafia and only that he didn't like him not posting. There wasn't any suspicion at all as far as I could tell.
I'm in no rush to put a vote down yet but I am interested in getting some answers.
When there's too much to respond to, I wait until I am on a pc because quoting is hell on the phone
@everyone: I will respond to everything when I am on a pc.
But it sounds like your mind has changed. Do you no longer read town on TMCT or am I reading too much into the tenses?
ME's post makes sense in the context she wrote it in.
DCIII did capitalize the "W" and his infamous 'townslip' post clears him for me.
What do you think of TMCT's reaction to me making this post?
1: it is often a scumtell because people who avoid randomly voting are often afraid to step on toes, which is very much a scumtell.
RVS means 'Random Voting Stage'. Random voting is what you do in RVS.
2: that's the explanation I was looking for. It was clear in ME's post, not in yours.
unvote Burning_Earth
This quote got a little messed up because it's part of a snipped quote from TMCT. The question was directed at him.
I don't like how he barns me on Burning_Earth being scum and when he asks you for an opinion right after, he only does so on ME and not on Burning_Earth.
Yeh, could be a warning to his buddies not to do it wrong.
It was a quote from TMCT from a post that I cut into pieces so that I could react to it part by part.
What I was saying is that TMCT barns me on BE but immediately drops that suspicion when asking Kraj for an opinion on ME.
I fixed the quote.
The reason I immediately voted instead of only asking for clarification is because voting is our only tool during the Day and it should be used.
I am not liking how you are avoiding that.
vote: Antny
/barn previous post... avoiding RVS is generally viewed as a scumtell. I get that some players don't enjoy it as much as others, plus a lot of people vote based on inside jokes or things from recently completed games (which you obviously don't have here yet). Just something to keep in mind for future games.
Just so everyone knows, I am pretty consistently V/LA on weekends. I may be able to post here and there, but not often and maybe not at all. I will come back to this game on Monday and re-assess.
It depends what you define as tool, since a question seems like a reasonable tool to use to me. I don't see how it's productive to try to force people to vote when their not ready. Surely that's more likely to just lead to the wrong player being lynched.
The reason I didn't straight up vote for you before was because suspicions didn't mean I thought you were Mafioso. It does now strike me as odd that there are multiple people without votes in this thread in this thread and you have gone after another new player - the second time you've done this, this game.
vote Rhand
OK fair enough.
BEs post makes perfect sense and is with the context of what is going on in thread. It's his first post. He answers the two questions that are out there.
I hate how your throwing TMCT out there as a way to deflect. His reaction comes across genuine. I didn't see the all three off those claims being the same until I reread what I posted about Mirror. I was like 'what, wait a minute'. Looked back and saw the other two posts but you only single out one.
Something ME looks to be doing now.
This is a complete cop-out and a way for you to back-peddle.
Not when people carlessly throw it around. Ever see Seppel? The tool is pressure. Pressure doesn't come with a vote it comes from not letting up. Question someone, make them accountable.
It's so much a null tell. People skip out on it frequently. Most times they're over in a blink.
Mirrorentity is so noncommittal and is trying to stay on the fence.
I'm fine with either Rhand or Mirror as todays lynch.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
My vote was on BE because he needed pressure. He answered well so I take it off.
If you think 'I want out' because you're reacting on it then you're wrong AE.
You're calling all votes on BE terrible, but what TMCT did was as good as a vote.
You excuse him because it seems 'genuine'. I disagree 100%: TMCT should know very well what people answered to his question. After all, he is 'hunting scum' with it. Which he isn't. It's all a facade.
TMCT must die. But Antny as well.
Nonsense. A vote on a player is not a lynch of a player.
Voting adds pressure to questioning and is useful.
Not voting is avoiding to step on toes which is scummy.
I am not singling you out. I am suspicious of Nny and BE as well and I have outed that.
Your vote is awful and your mindset is scummy.
According to you town should not:
* Pressure with votes
* Pursue people that haven't been pursued by others
Which are the two main ways to succesfully find scum until one is pegged sure enough to go to lynch.
Why did he need pressure? It has nothing to do with me but with the fact that people weren't coming aboard BEs wagon and they expressed interest in hearing from you
This was his question. It doesn't have anything to do with claims.
Again. Your deflecting onto TMCT. You so sure that he is scum but you vote BE then Antny. Rhand your starting to flail and your spinning post to cast doubt on others. Thats never a good thing.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Right. I was going to have you point it out. I forgot the name change. I'll look back on how that all played out again. Now answer my first question. Why did BE need pressure?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
You were all over me before he answered me.
Do you see how TMCT skipped over my attack on him?
That's because i didn't add the vote.
- Someone to claim another name.
- Someone to claim Walker in a way that suggested they got it from their role PM and not the OP.
- Someone to irrationally question why I was asking for names.
Apart from being a really contrived explanation? I'm not sure what you're seeing.
Wow, that's a logic pretzel. Please state your read on Rhand more clearly.
Whats it matter? Your calling him scum anyways.
What's not to like about this claim. He's clearly saying he's a walker. You were trying to get a wagon going over semantics. Not something a townie would do. A scum reaching for anything to grasp onto, now that's something they would do.
But now you have to tell me. How was it clear in ME's post?
They hate us cause they ain't us.