2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Needs a lance so you can control the whole weapon triangle.
Are you going to pretend you have a reason beyond get on with it?
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Quote from "Thor 446" »
Could some people vote Vi or give me a super exciting counter wagon that I can at least pretend to get excited by?
The llamarble wagon has been pretty evident for some time now and you even said you supported it in 381 and you haven't done anything with it because <etc.>.
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Quote from "Cyan 447" »
It is radically harder to get a scum to L-1 than it is L-2, while it is no more difficult to get a townie to that point.
I'm assuming that this is a function of L-2 claim meta, since this is the first time I've heard of this.
I will suggest something similar to your line of logic. Whilst the game stagnates, I think at least one scum's MO is to coast while times are easy and no one is contesting anything. Since I'm already looking at the last five pages/three days, that would suggest...
...these bottom four. Tiers are internally ordered roughly by how much faith I have in them being genuine. I think it would be worthwhile to reserve judgment on DYH for the time being, though I think it would be interesting to know if his posting style varies based on alignment (i.e. he's playing the same way in this game as he was in the previous one). desCoures is always absent, and while I haven't had a particular problem with him so far, I've not seen him as scum. That leaves Goofball and Voxxicus, which is why I'm interested in seeing what, if anything, Voxxicus has to contribute. Goofball has already shown a demonstrated willingness to snipe from the sidelines, so she's not interesting (though her wagon, which consists of two others on the bottom tier, is more so).
---
Quote from Nacho 394 »
I also like that most of his posting is framed towards "not knowing everything that's going on yet, not towninating yet": it reminds me of his posting in #YOLOville as opposed to his posting in white flag. His excuses in white flag were that he "wasn't feeling it", "hadn't quite gotten into the game" whereas his explanations here are that he's just making his first run and that he'll figure out the scum shortly, which is more along the lines of how he responded in #YOLOville IIRC.
And while I'm willing to acknowledge that "Scum cannot hide from me!" is appropriately blustery the actual work and effort that would go along with isn't following up. Considering that he knows that there are people here who have seen him as Town and scum (and that, if my memory is correct, his scum play is weaker than his Town play) I would expect him to try to match the part of his Town play that requires braggadocio as scum, and try to get by with the actual being scum part. As mentioned before, while there's certainly leeway for playing better in one game than the other, llamarble has had plenty of room to Towninate and what he's done is actively not do so with his deliberately bypassed chances to control the game.
Disclaimer: I have not read White Flag beyond seeing that he was lynched Day 2.
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Unofficial literally one vote changed in the last six pages vote count.
Vierni (4) - Cyan, Thor665, Kami of Lunacy, Voxxicus
Kami of Lunacy (2) - DYH, desCoures
Cyan (2) - Nachomamma8, Iso
llamarble (2) - Vierni, Tammy
Iso (1) - llamarble
Not Voting (2) - Cyouni
Deadline is in ten days. In the name of love and mercy please don't take that long. At the very least don't wait to do something until the 17th.
Could some people vote Vi or give me a super exciting counter wagon that I can at least pretend to get excited by?
The llamarble wagon has been pretty evident for some time now and you even said you supported it in 381 and you haven't done anything with it because <etc.>.
Seriously?
You're actually taking a shot at me as I sit on a 3 person wagon on my primary suspect that I haven't moved to a 2 person wagon that I could make a 3 person wagon on a secondary/tertiary suspect?
Because...that makes no sense. This is just a little soft hand jab at discredit on me because it's really obvious why I wouldn't have "done anything with it". I don't even understand why you would think that is worth whining about or complaining about because nothing I have said should remotely suggest I would be excited about that wagon over yours unless by moving my vote I could make it bigger than yous.
Cuz yeah I ought to be categorized with "people I have no faith in" but are really lurkers, and two of them being my scum reads so I guess I'm bus'ing my lurkbuddies.
That Vi post is complete BS, please lynch, have no mercy for this scum.
" Goofball has already shown a demonstrated willingness to snipe from the sidelines, so she's not interesting (though her wagon, which consists of two others on the bottom tier, is more so)."
Sidelines? I'm shouting from front row center, scum, you're the one sniping from the sidelines, and you are even conceding that my wagon consists of scum, and these are even my scum reads???
My BS meter is spinning.
Also the comment to Nacho is a word salad without a discernible conclusion. It's a whole lot of nothing.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Could some people vote Vi or give me a super exciting counter wagon that I can at least pretend to get excited by?
The llamarble wagon has been pretty evident for some time now and you even said you supported it in 381 and you haven't done anything with it because <etc.>.
Seriously?
You're actually taking a shot at me as I sit on a 3 person wagon on my primary suspect that I haven't moved to a 2 person wagon that I could make a 3 person wagon on a secondary/tertiary suspect?
Because...that makes no sense. This is just a little soft hand jab at discredit on me because it's really obvious why I wouldn't have "done anything with it". I don't even understand why you would think that is worth whining about or complaining about because nothing I have said should remotely suggest I would be excited about that wagon over yours unless by moving my vote I could make it bigger than yous.
So...nah, let's lynch you.
...so... if you were happy with where you were, why did you even post 446? I mean seriously.
"Can I have Vi votes or a counterwagon?"
"How about this counterwagon?"
"YOU SCUM! I NEVER WANTED A COUNTERWAGON!"
:\
---
Quote from "Goofball 458" »
Sidelines? I'm shouting from front row center, scum
You made two posts in those three days. Paraphrasing without loss of message or even shortening them by all that much:
(393) "Nacho is using RL excuses. Mmmmmm." (by the by, this is in the running for the worst post in the game, though the competition is fierce)
(437) "Vi is still scum."
I'm pretty sure I got it right. Cyan's showing you how shouting from front row center is done.
Quote from "Goofball 458" »
and you are even conceding that my wagon consists of scum
...
Quote from "Vi 454" »
I think it would be worthwhile to reserve judgment on DYH for the time being, though I think it would be interesting to know if his posting style varies based on alignment (i.e. he's playing the same way in this game as he was in the previous one). desCoures is always absent, and while I haven't had a particular problem with him so far, I've not seen him as scum. That leaves Goofball and Voxxicus
Noticeably not calling DYH or desCoures scum.
While I'm still interested in what Voxxicus has to say, that was a surprisingly brisk turnaround to finding a scum in the list. Although if so I guess I have some (admittedly halfhearted) apologies to make about bashing your Town game.
...so... if you were happy with where you were, why did you even post 446? I mean seriously.
"Can I have Vi votes or a counterwagon?"
"How about this counterwagon?"
"YOU SCUM! I NEVER WANTED A COUNTERWAGON!"
:\
"Can I have Vi votes or an exciting counterwagon?"
"Llamarble is a counterwagon that you have stated support of, even though it's smaller than the Vi wagon, isn't going anywhere, and you have Llamarble as a lesser scumread than Vi and I'm not going to showcase anything new about the wagon...but it's weird that you haven't moved already."
"That is beyond not weird of me. Here's why. Why would you possibly say it's weird?"
"Waaah! Stop calling me out on the stuff I'm doing!"
I believe I did add to the reasons why I think llamarble is scum in that very post. The llamarble wagon is (or rather, was and will be) going places faster than the Vi wagon at the time. Normally asking about a counterwagon implies that you'd be willing to lift a finger to do something with said counterwagon.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I believe I did add to the reasons why I think llamarble is scum in that very post. The llamarble wagon is (or rather, was and will be) going places faster than the Vi wagon at the time. Normally asking about a counterwagon implies that you'd be willing to lift a finger to do something with said counterwagon.
If by ;add; you said 'I think he's not scumhunting...but will add a semi-disclaimer to this statement' then, yes, you added to it.
I wonder why I didn't leap on that wagon of win with both feet? It's super strange - you should probably call me out on it again.
In unrelated news, I actually like that Vi is calling the weak-wrist L-2 claim to task, and I would do the same thing in her position regardless of my alignment or role, because L-2 is not L-1 with hammer intent by any stretch.
That said, I also support the general calls for more votes, but will note that this particular reasoning (lack of claim at L-2, Ooooo!) is a pretty weaksauce reason to call for more votes. Vi is doing actually scummy things, point them out in your screaming.
I'm still having difficulty understanding the scum benefit of not claiming at this time given the game state, but etc.
This is pretty weaksauce though, because there's an implied suggestion of it being potentially a town tell, to which I say a hearty 'meh'.
It's a null tell. Straight up.
Vi doesn't want to risk getting caught on a bad fakeclaim, lynch ahoy.
This is it exactly.
And honestly, I am co,mpletey tired of having this conversation. This is our site. To expect you to adhere by a very basic way that we do things is completely reasonable. When we have to play on your site, we'll follow your rules. On here, we claim at L-2, because when someone gets to that point, it means that we absolutely intend to lynch them unless they have a claim that is unquestionably going to get them out of it.
This is particularly tedious in this instance, where Vierni is very obviously just using it as a stalling tactic. I don't care if you're town or not, at this point. A L-2 wagon does not happen completely out of nowhere. Especially in a game like this. Somewhere along the line, you did something to deserve this level of scrutiny. It sucks, but it is what it is.
I don't think that there is any chance that Vierni has a claim that is going to get him out of being lynched. And he knows it. If he did, he would have provided it at this point, and tried to use the momentum from it as a springboard to get me lynched.
This is particularly tedious in this instance, where Vierni is very obviously just using it as a stalling tactic. I don't care if you're town or not, at this point. A L-2 wagon does not happen completely out of nowhere. Especially in a game like this. Somewhere along the line, you did something to deserve this level of scrutiny. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Begging your pardon, Mr. Thou, but I'm reading this as sorry, I know you're Town but I have to do this. Would you care to elaborate on your use of site policy to force a mislynch?
That's actually not the only fascinating part. You said that I would use the momentum from a claim to get you lynched... but why you in particular when there's, say, Goofball, who has the benefit of actually being accused by me earlier today (real-time)?
That's not the only other fascinating part either. Why on earth would I as scum be worried about a bad fakeclaim? There is no bad fakeclaim as scum when there's no knowledge of which roles are in the game or who has them (given what happened in the previous game, Doctor would be an ideal claim). See previous question on where the scum motivation is in not claiming. On the other hand, I may not see a reason to divulge my role because I'm not going to be lynched, and given that I have a five-person wagon right now I don't think I'm going to be NuKed unless I claim a role. Therefore, it's in my best interest not to claim unless I'm trying to throw a smoke bomb into things.
In fact, let's expand a bit on the likelihood that I'm going to be lynched. Right now, there's you, Thor, Goofball, Voxxicus, Iso, and sure, let's throw Cyouni in (which is a little disheartening because I suspect he's Town; otherwise he would probably have jumped on the wagon already). Who else is there? Nacho knows I'm Town. llamarble knows I'm Town (and in the unfortunate event of my demise it would be more of a disservice to me than this present wagon if you don't rope him up if he ever votes me). Tammy's not joining the wagon. desCoures doesn't look like he'll do it unless he decides to play this ~sanctity of site meta~ means of losing. And then there's DYH's replacement, who I'm presuming would be Azrael (and that would be far and away the most interesting part of the last 32 pages), who is best left as a wild card but I'm placing my faith in the person who literally wrote the book on analysis by post motivation. At risk of sounding smug, I'm not worried because there are enough people who know my meta better than all of you put together and/or are willing to flex the good sense God gave some people more than others that are vouching that I'm Town, so if I can't slap sense into any of you nimrods and scum on my wagon, stalling is the next best thing.
What I really mean to say to the group at large is that if you're going to get pissed off, shut your ears, and shout scumscumscumscumscumscum every time I do something or don't do something, then that doesn't sound like anything I can help with.
Begging your site meta's pardon, but claims are last resorts to avoid getting lynched. I'm willing to bet I won't need to.
I'm still having difficulty understanding the scum benefit of not claiming at this time given the game state, but etc.
Can we just go over how beautiful this post is?
I'm relatively certain that if you didn't need to claim to bail yourself out, you wouldn't be in the situation you're in now. As for "the scum benefit of not claiming at this time", gee, I dunno...to not get lynched for a bad claim, maybe?
Vi doesn't want to risk getting caught on a bad fakeclaim, lynch ahoy.
This is it exactly.
And honestly, I am co,mpletey tired of having this conversation. This is our site. To expect you to adhere by a very basic way that we do things is completely reasonable. When we have to play on your site, we'll follow your rules. On here, we claim at L-2, because when someone gets to that point, it means that we absolutely intend to lynch them unless they have a claim that is unquestionably going to get them out of it.
This is particularly tedious in this instance, where Vierni is very obviously just using it as a stalling tactic. I don't care if you're town or not, at this point. A L-2 wagon does not happen completely out of nowhere. Especially in a game like this. Somewhere along the line, you did something to deserve this level of scrutiny. It sucks, but it is what it is.
I don't think that there is any chance that Vierni has a claim that is going to get him out of being lynched. And he knows it. If he did, he would have provided it at this point, and tried to use the momentum from it as a springboard to get me lynched.
Cyan, stop saying things I agree with. It worries me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And honestly, I am co,mpletey tired of having this conversation. This is our site. To expect you to adhere by a very basic way that we do things is completely reasonable. When we have to play on your site, we'll follow your rules. On here, we claim at L-2, because when someone gets to that point, it means that we absolutely intend to lynch them unless they have a claim that is unquestionably going to get them out of it.
If you can show me in your site rules where it says we need to claim at L-2 then I'll comply, until then this is silly. You guys use tells I don't use, and I wouldn't expect you all to come over to MS and only use tells we use there. It's a game, and there are many ways to play. I, personally, have no fears of derphammers due to mistakes in vote counts because;
1. Outside of Newbie games I've seen it happen...once? And it was a newb player who did it.
2. I don't think anyone here is going to "lulz, mistake hammer!" on us.
3. I actually agree with Vi, if we don't have the force to push through a lynch on her then we don't have the force to demand she claims.
I personally think we do have the force simply because there is no other competing wagon, whatever she wants me to believe about Llamarble, and also as deadline nears the inevitable "but we need a lynch, any lynch is bettter than no lynch" chants - and then we'll have the force to lynch her. If she wants to play the waiting game on that, i am fine with it and think that allows everyone to scumhunt.
But, no, I wouldn't claim at L-2 in her situation either so I don't find it scummy, nor even anti-town. You have identified a playstyle difference - whoop-de-doo.
This is particularly tedious in this instance, where Vierni is very obviously just using it as a stalling tactic.
I don't disagree with that, but would love to hear the thoughts of the people off the wagon rather than continued screaming from those on it.
Also, frankly, I'd love to hear more from Voxx too - as this wagon felt pretty town driven till his vote.
I don't think that there is any chance that Vierni has a claim that is going to get him out of being lynched. And he knows it. If he did, he would have provided it at this point, and tried to use the momentum from it as a springboard to get me lynched.
Begging your pardon, Mr. Thou, but I'm reading this as sorry, I know you're Town but I have to do this. Would you care to elaborate on your use of site policy to force a mislynch?
You would like to read it that way, but you know better.
What I'm saying is that, regardless of your alignment, when you get to this point, you follow procedure. Period, end of discussion. If you don't like it, don't get wagon'ed. Even in the cases where this happens and you are town, it's not that big of a deal, because if you get mislynched, it gives the town plenty of information to work with.
Honestly, this is such a nonsense conversation. You *know* ALL of these things. And we know that you know them. You are flat-out stalling, and with the most non-town arguments possible. You are a dead man walking, and you know it.
If she wants to play the waiting game on that, i am fine with it and think that allows everyone to scumhunt.
What do you mean, they'll be allowed to do something other than call Vi scum? Butbutbut that would require everyone on my wagon to do something unsafe!
Incidentally, I'm in agreement that the people who aren't posting are the ones we need to hear from most. I don't think I ever want to hear a complaint about mafiascum's pace after this game and the last.
You start, Thor. Aside from me, who are you thinking is scum?
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Quote from "Cyan 477" »
Honestly, this is such a nonsense conversation. You *know* ALL of these things. And we know that you know them. You are flat-out stalling, and with the most non-town arguments possible. You are a dead man walking, and you know it.
I *know* that you are a feeble-minded nit* who should have rotted in his pit of despair after your anti-Town performance in the previous game. I *know* this because you're literally pushing a mislynch as sold because of your site's obviously-and-discussed-to-death-as-arbitrary policy. I *know* that you are intentionally not responding to any of my arguments because you feel a curiously overriding need to push this lynch. And I *know* that I'm not the only person who would like for you to elaborate on this--
Quote from Cyan 473 »
I don't think that there is any chance that Vierni has a claim that is going to get him out of being lynched. And he knows it. If he did, he would have provided it at this point, and tried to use the momentum from it as a springboard to get me lynched.
And I *know* that reaching out to you was in hindsight a mistake - not for doing it to start with, but because your opinions would have been useless no matter what.
So forgive my skepticism if I can't get a single wagon to that point in this game, especially considering that a forceful person like Thor, whom seems extremely likely to be town, is also involved. Vi's wagon should have reached a legitimate resolution by now. I mean, you know Thor better than me. He seems like a player that should garner respect. If you think he is town, why aren't you listening to what he has to say?
Sure, I'm listening to what he has to say. But I'm fairly confident that I can read Vi better than he can because Thor isn't the type to get good meta grasps of people from what I know, but I do have a good meta grasp of Vi, and I'm reading him as town, as is everyone else who so much as pretends to know how to read him.
So WHY are you reading him as town, then? What evidence exists to support that? How do you reconcile the radical difference in his behavior in this game compared to his behavior in the one before this?
@Vi: Personal attacks now. Pitiful behavior. But thanks for that, because really it just makes your scumminess more apparent.
Okay so here's part of my problem. I feel like I had a gut scum read on Cyan early game that I started talking myself out of, and that's exactly what I did in yoloville where I gut scum read ces early game and talked myself out of it and waffled for days. :/
I don't even know if that makes sense. I had some wine while unpacking cuz less boring that way, but sometimes my early gut reads are right and I talk myself out of them for stupid reasons. I feel like that with Cyan.
The people I'm least enthused by are llamarble, Vi, and dC, all for completely different reasons.
I'm not sure why Thor went to such a degree to avoid answering a certain question, but considering how I have a town read on him aside from that, I'm guessing he's just being irritating.
I'm not sure what to think of the most recent DYH post (the one before the replacement notice), but since he's replaced out, I'm going to hold off till the replacement.
So WHY are you reading him as town, then? What evidence exists to support that? How do you reconcile the radical difference in his behavior in this game compared to his behavior in the one before this?
@Vi: Personal attacks now. Pitiful behavior. But thanks for that, because really it just makes your scumminess more apparent.
What are the differences between Vi's play last game and this game?
What are the differences between Thor's play last game and this game?
What do you mean, they'll be allowed to do something other than call Vi scum? Butbutbut that would require everyone on my wagon to do something unsafe!
You start, Thor. Aside from me, who are you thinking is scum?
Considering you and I have even had discussion about some of my other reads as recently as...like two hours ago, I see little need to dance to this tune. I am not shy about sharing my reads.
Why do you think Cyan is scum pursuing the current angle of attack he is?
Maybe. I was hoping you would be restless to jump on a different wagon once that Vi wagon stalls out.
If that happened I probably would move. If you want/expect that move to be to Cyan though I'll really need to see some sort of concise case I can actually stick a fork in though. I'd be about as happy running you up as running him up.
A certain indecisiveness... a certain lack of bloodshed... GLaDOS was patient, but not this patient. She briefly contemplated just flooding the whole room with a deadly neurotoxin, but quickly realized how futile that would be at eliminating all the subjects at once due to most of their non-human natures.
It seems she would just have to continue to observe. Unless some more excitement happened soon, this could be one of the lamest tests she's ever given.
/*-+-*/
Apologies for the wait concerning DYH. Hopefully this will be taken care of today!
/*-+-*/
wondrous SEVENTH VOTE COUNT! (My brand!) Vierni (5) - Cyan, Thor665, Kami of Lunacy, Voxxicus, Iso Cyan (1) - Nachomamma8 Kami of Lunacy (2) - DYH, desCoures Iso (1) - llamarble llamarble (2) - Vierni, Tammy
You start, Thor. Aside from me, who are you thinking is scum?
Considering you and I have even had discussion about some of my other reads as recently as...like two hours ago, I see little need to dance to this tune. I am not shy about sharing my reads.
...no, we haven't. I'm ~guessing~ that llamarble and Voxxicus are your two picks based on context clues. This is the part where you confirm or deny with whichever justifications or additions you wish to add so I can stop treating you like a bearded child.
Quote from "Thor 485" »
Why do you think Cyan is scum pursuing the current angle of attack he is?
That's the thing. Cyan has been saying and doing scummy things for a long time now (the policy lynch angle is a classic sort of scum tactic you'd see on mafiascum) and yet some part of me can't shake the sense that he's being genuine (and a disgrace to all literate beings on the Internet). Part of the evidence of this would be that he's paranoid that I would go after him particularly were I to turn the tables - trying to word it out sounds strange but I think that kind of paranoia is more likely seen in Town; scum wouldn't want to seem scared or offer themselves up as a target, or something to that effect. It's definitely wrong, but it doesn't seem malicious and it does seem to match the profile of the person who was actively anti-Town paranoid in the first game's latter Days.
Mind, this also comes with the bonus that my totally justified critiques of his skill level are in fact warranted. I recognize that giving people a piece of my mind isn't a good way to get them on my side or for them to do as I like, but Cyan seems to have already put his feet in concrete on the matter, so!
I've already expressed the people I want to see die; namely llamarble and Goofball. Goofball pretty flagrantly isn't going to do anything but try and prop the wagon up as long as she can via any arguments necessary; that's my first pick for scum on my wagon.
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@Nacho: Would you like to trade in your Cyan vote for a vote on either of the wagons mentioned above?
You start, Thor. Aside from me, who are you thinking is scum?
Considering you and I have even had discussion about some of my other reads as recently as...like two hours ago, I see little need to dance to this tune. I am not shy about sharing my reads.
The llamarble wagon has been pretty evident for some time now and you even said you supported it in 381 and you haven't done anything with it because <etc.>.
???
Then what were we discussing?
I'm ~guessing~ that llamarble and Voxxicus are your two picks based on context clues. This is the part where you confirm or deny with whichever justifications or additions you wish to add so I can stop treating you like a bearded child.
[quote="Thor 485"]Why do you think Cyan is scum pursuing the current angle of attack he is?
That's the thing. Cyan has been saying and doing scummy things for a long time now (the policy lynch angle is a classic sort of scum tactic you'd see on mafiascum) and yet some part of me can't shake the sense that he's being genuine (and a disgrace to all literate beings on the Internet). Part of the evidence of this would be that he's paranoid that I would go after him particularly were I to turn the tables - trying to word it out sounds strange but I think that kind of paranoia is more likely seen in Town; scum wouldn't want to seem scared or offer themselves up as a target, or something to that effect. It's definitely wrong, but it doesn't seem malicious and it does seem to match the profile of the person who was actively anti-Town paranoid in the first game's latter Days.
I agree with a lot of this, which makes me wonder why you've been picking at him so much because his push looks so legit to me and yet you've really felt like you've been selling this Cyan=scum thing for a while. Even just the way you're constantly belittling him...as though that's going to help you get a read on him. It feels like scum defensive tactics, not scumhunting.
Goofball pretty flagrantly isn't going to do anything but try and prop the wagon up as long as she can via any arguments necessary; that's my first pick for scum on my wagon.
Is this any different from town Goofball? Because if so, I may really lack meta awareness of Goofball.
So forgive my skepticism if I can't get a single wagon to that point in this game, especially considering that a forceful person like Thor, whom seems extremely likely to be town, is also involved. Vi's wagon should have reached a legitimate resolution by now. I mean, you know Thor better than me. He seems like a player that should garner respect. If you think he is town, why aren't you listening to what he has to say?
I listen to everything everyone has to say. I have a Thor read on Thor. I'm leaning town on him, but I'm not silly enough to call him *town* this early, especially when the few things I think I need to read him by haven't happened.
Besides, there are only a handful of people that I just *listen* to, and no offense to Thor, but he's not one of them. Nacho is, but even when I'm listening to him and when we're hydraing, I'm still questioning him every step of the way. The only time I just sheep someone's reasoning is when I don't have a read on someone of my own, when I think a wagon will help with a read on someone, and when it's near deadline and I don't have a reason to fight the wagon/don't have a strong read elsewhere to push it to.
Hi! How you doin? Can you kindly answer my question about descoures? Thanks!
I also just realized that Llamarble completely ignored descoures asking him why he had me as a scum read.
Also, I realized as I was rereading that we're really playing an MS game here costaring Cyan and Iso and the rest of the Mtgsers (and llarmarble) are really just making cameos. That can stop any minute now.
Okay you know what my problem with this lack of claim is? In yoloville, Vi wasn't even the leading wagon, was at L-4, and claimed to stop the nonsense of the arguments that he could be scum.
Okay so, got a chance to reread and I'm not sure how much it helped.
Here's one thing I'm pretty sure of though: Vi scum = kami, Thor, and cyan town.
Regardless of Vi's alignment I'm leaning town on Thor. I want to call kami town but I'm not that stupid to do that day one. And I've gone oh yeah I remember why cyans scum, oh wait he's not, oh wait he is, nope he's not, ungh don't know.
So, what I've decided even given my misgivings, I'm not joining that wagon right now if at all today. Nacho isn't making me feel any better about wanting to when he can't even answer why. From what I can tell he went from going oh cyan is more likely town for the paranoia to oh wait he's scum for applauding thors case against Vi, who cyan already thought was scum.
But incidentally I don't think that Thor, or kami, can be objective about cyan because they're all in agreement about Vi being scum, so it feels right now like this reinforcement triangle.
I still like the DYH slot. I still think its *possible* he's white knighting Vi or I guess in the most extreme circumstances is buzzwording him, but I don't get that feeling.
Cyan - you say that your basically reserving judgment on iso because of a playstyle shift, but from his conversation with Vi this is more like his typical playstyle, so I'm trying to figure out your stance. Also what are your reads on your other fellow mtgsers?
Concerning Vi - earlier today I read through a couple recent Vi scum and town games, and quite frankly he's not playing like either. He did seem offended that I was potentially scum reading him in yoloville, I read him quickly as town in castle zar, he did the reach out thing as town in hxh and pushed quite strongly for a scum lynch day one. As far as scum, the only one relevant to here was black flag where I pegged his hydra early, and he did seem rather bitter to be caught early but the one thing that stood out to me was him townreading me but undermining that read with tiny potshots, but even in the midst of that there was some playful moments. So I'm not sure what to make of here. Definitely not joining that wagon now if ever because I still think the reAch out thing points more to town as does some of his frustration. I also think the claiming stall argument is weak as he could easily claim a pr to get the wagon off him or draw out a pr if he were scum, but I still am bothered that he did claim in yoloville to stop the distraction of him as scum and he's not here, so that's bothersome, especially since it was brought up in that game that he would actually be fine with a day one massclaim, so him holding off is weird. Actually my read might have just gotten weaker here, and an implication I thought I saw my be totally inaccurate.
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{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Are you going to pretend you have a reason beyond get on with it?
---
The llamarble wagon has been pretty evident for some time now and you even said you supported it in 381 and you haven't done anything with it because <etc.>.
---
I'm assuming that this is a function of L-2 claim meta, since this is the first time I've heard of this.
I will suggest something similar to your line of logic. Whilst the game stagnates, I think at least one scum's MO is to coast while times are easy and no one is contesting anything. Since I'm already looking at the last five pages/three days, that would suggest...
~Hack Doldrums Content-O'meter~
Nacho - ||||
Tammy - ||||
Iso - |||
Cyan - |||
Thor - |||
Cyouni - ||
llamarble - ||
DYH -
desCoures -
Voxxicus -
Goofball -
...these bottom four. Tiers are internally ordered roughly by how much faith I have in them being genuine. I think it would be worthwhile to reserve judgment on DYH for the time being, though I think it would be interesting to know if his posting style varies based on alignment (i.e. he's playing the same way in this game as he was in the previous one). desCoures is always absent, and while I haven't had a particular problem with him so far, I've not seen him as scum. That leaves Goofball and Voxxicus, which is why I'm interested in seeing what, if anything, Voxxicus has to contribute. Goofball has already shown a demonstrated willingness to snipe from the sidelines, so she's not interesting (though her wagon, which consists of two others on the bottom tier, is more so).
---
And while I'm willing to acknowledge that "Scum cannot hide from me!" is appropriately blustery the actual work and effort that would go along with isn't following up. Considering that he knows that there are people here who have seen him as Town and scum (and that, if my memory is correct, his scum play is weaker than his Town play) I would expect him to try to match the part of his Town play that requires braggadocio as scum, and try to get by with the actual being scum part. As mentioned before, while there's certainly leeway for playing better in one game than the other, llamarble has had plenty of room to Towninate and what he's done is actively not do so with his deliberately bypassed chances to control the game.
Disclaimer: I have not read White Flag beyond seeing that he was lynched Day 2.
---
Unofficial literally one vote changed in the last six pages vote count.
Vierni (4) - Cyan, Thor665, Kami of Lunacy, Voxxicus
Kami of Lunacy (2) - DYH, desCoures
Cyan (2) - Nachomamma8, Iso
llamarble (2) - Vierni, Tammy
Iso (1) - llamarble
Not Voting (2) - Cyouni
Deadline is in ten days. In the name of love and mercy please don't take that long. At the very least don't wait to do something until the 17th.
@mod: What's the progress on the DYH replacement?
Seriously?
You're actually taking a shot at me as I sit on a 3 person wagon on my primary suspect that I haven't moved to a 2 person wagon that I could make a 3 person wagon on a secondary/tertiary suspect?
Because...that makes no sense. This is just a little soft hand jab at discredit on me because it's really obvious why I wouldn't have "done anything with it". I don't even understand why you would think that is worth whining about or complaining about because nothing I have said should remotely suggest I would be excited about that wagon over yours unless by moving my vote I could make it bigger than yous.
So...nah, let's lynch you.
Yeah that thing is scum.
Cuz yeah I ought to be categorized with "people I have no faith in" but are really lurkers, and two of them being my scum reads so I guess I'm bus'ing my lurkbuddies.
That Vi post is complete BS, please lynch, have no mercy for this scum.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
Sidelines? I'm shouting from front row center, scum, you're the one sniping from the sidelines, and you are even conceding that my wagon consists of scum, and these are even my scum reads???
My BS meter is spinning.
Also the comment to Nacho is a word salad without a discernible conclusion. It's a whole lot of nothing.
Please lynch.
Claim.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
"Can I have Vi votes or a counterwagon?"
"How about this counterwagon?"
"YOU SCUM! I NEVER WANTED A COUNTERWAGON!"
:\
---
You made two posts in those three days. Paraphrasing without loss of message or even shortening them by all that much:
(393) "Nacho is using RL excuses. Mmmmmm." (by the by, this is in the running for the worst post in the game, though the competition is fierce)
(437) "Vi is still scum."
I'm pretty sure I got it right. Cyan's showing you how shouting from front row center is done.
... Noticeably not calling DYH or desCoures scum.
While I'm still interested in what Voxxicus has to say, that was a surprisingly brisk turnaround to finding a scum in the list. Although if so I guess I have some (admittedly halfhearted) apologies to make about bashing your Town game.
---
No.
"Can I have Vi votes or an exciting counterwagon?"
"Llamarble is a counterwagon that you have stated support of, even though it's smaller than the Vi wagon, isn't going anywhere, and you have Llamarble as a lesser scumread than Vi and I'm not going to showcase anything new about the wagon...but it's weird that you haven't moved already."
"That is beyond not weird of me. Here's why. Why would you possibly say it's weird?"
"Waaah! Stop calling me out on the stuff I'm doing!"
Claim no, lynch yes.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm still having difficulty understanding the scum benefit of not claiming at this time given the game state, but etc.
Look at this super stall. Ridiculous.
Can we please just lynch this scum already.
If by ;add; you said 'I think he's not scumhunting...but will add a semi-disclaimer to this statement' then, yes, you added to it.
I wonder why I didn't leap on that wagon of win with both feet? It's super strange - you should probably call me out on it again.
In unrelated news, I actually like that Vi is calling the weak-wrist L-2 claim to task, and I would do the same thing in her position regardless of my alignment or role, because L-2 is not L-1 with hammer intent by any stretch.
That said, I also support the general calls for more votes, but will note that this particular reasoning (lack of claim at L-2, Ooooo!) is a pretty weaksauce reason to call for more votes. Vi is doing actually scummy things, point them out in your screaming.
This is pretty weaksauce though, because there's an implied suggestion of it being potentially a town tell, to which I say a hearty 'meh'.
It's a null tell. Straight up.
Vi doesn't want to risk getting caught on a bad fakeclaim, lynch ahoy.
This is it exactly.
And honestly, I am co,mpletey tired of having this conversation. This is our site. To expect you to adhere by a very basic way that we do things is completely reasonable. When we have to play on your site, we'll follow your rules. On here, we claim at L-2, because when someone gets to that point, it means that we absolutely intend to lynch them unless they have a claim that is unquestionably going to get them out of it.
This is particularly tedious in this instance, where Vierni is very obviously just using it as a stalling tactic. I don't care if you're town or not, at this point. A L-2 wagon does not happen completely out of nowhere. Especially in a game like this. Somewhere along the line, you did something to deserve this level of scrutiny. It sucks, but it is what it is.
I don't think that there is any chance that Vierni has a claim that is going to get him out of being lynched. And he knows it. If he did, he would have provided it at this point, and tried to use the momentum from it as a springboard to get me lynched.
That's actually not the only fascinating part. You said that I would use the momentum from a claim to get you lynched... but why you in particular when there's, say, Goofball, who has the benefit of actually being accused by me earlier today (real-time)?
That's not the only other fascinating part either. Why on earth would I as scum be worried about a bad fakeclaim? There is no bad fakeclaim as scum when there's no knowledge of which roles are in the game or who has them (given what happened in the previous game, Doctor would be an ideal claim). See previous question on where the scum motivation is in not claiming. On the other hand, I may not see a reason to divulge my role because I'm not going to be lynched, and given that I have a five-person wagon right now I don't think I'm going to be NuKed unless I claim a role. Therefore, it's in my best interest not to claim unless I'm trying to throw a smoke bomb into things.
In fact, let's expand a bit on the likelihood that I'm going to be lynched. Right now, there's you, Thor, Goofball, Voxxicus, Iso, and sure, let's throw Cyouni in (which is a little disheartening because I suspect he's Town; otherwise he would probably have jumped on the wagon already). Who else is there? Nacho knows I'm Town. llamarble knows I'm Town (and in the unfortunate event of my demise it would be more of a disservice to me than this present wagon if you don't rope him up if he ever votes me). Tammy's not joining the wagon. desCoures doesn't look like he'll do it unless he decides to play this ~sanctity of site meta~ means of losing. And then there's DYH's replacement, who I'm presuming would be Azrael (and that would be far and away the most interesting part of the last 32 pages), who is best left as a wild card but I'm placing my faith in the person who literally wrote the book on analysis by post motivation. At risk of sounding smug, I'm not worried because there are enough people who know my meta better than all of you put together and/or are willing to flex the good sense God gave some people more than others that are vouching that I'm Town, so if I can't slap sense into any of you nimrods and scum on my wagon, stalling is the next best thing.
What I really mean to say to the group at large is that if you're going to get pissed off, shut your ears, and shout scumscumscumscumscumscum every time I do something or don't do something, then that doesn't sound like anything I can help with.
Can we just go over how beautiful this post is?
I'm relatively certain that if you didn't need to claim to bail yourself out, you wouldn't be in the situation you're in now. As for "the scum benefit of not claiming at this time", gee, I dunno...to not get lynched for a bad claim, maybe?
Cyan, stop saying things I agree with. It worries me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I can believe that is true, but it doesn't mean everyone would have.
If you can show me in your site rules where it says we need to claim at L-2 then I'll comply, until then this is silly. You guys use tells I don't use, and I wouldn't expect you all to come over to MS and only use tells we use there. It's a game, and there are many ways to play. I, personally, have no fears of derphammers due to mistakes in vote counts because;
1. Outside of Newbie games I've seen it happen...once? And it was a newb player who did it.
2. I don't think anyone here is going to "lulz, mistake hammer!" on us.
3. I actually agree with Vi, if we don't have the force to push through a lynch on her then we don't have the force to demand she claims.
I personally think we do have the force simply because there is no other competing wagon, whatever she wants me to believe about Llamarble, and also as deadline nears the inevitable "but we need a lynch, any lynch is bettter than no lynch" chants - and then we'll have the force to lynch her. If she wants to play the waiting game on that, i am fine with it and think that allows everyone to scumhunt.
But, no, I wouldn't claim at L-2 in her situation either so I don't find it scummy, nor even anti-town. You have identified a playstyle difference - whoop-de-doo.
I don't disagree with that, but would love to hear the thoughts of the people off the wagon rather than continued screaming from those on it.
Also, frankly, I'd love to hear more from Voxx too - as this wagon felt pretty town driven till his vote.
...bwuh?
You would like to read it that way, but you know better.
What I'm saying is that, regardless of your alignment, when you get to this point, you follow procedure. Period, end of discussion. If you don't like it, don't get wagon'ed. Even in the cases where this happens and you are town, it's not that big of a deal, because if you get mislynched, it gives the town plenty of information to work with.
Honestly, this is such a nonsense conversation. You *know* ALL of these things. And we know that you know them. You are flat-out stalling, and with the most non-town arguments possible. You are a dead man walking, and you know it.
Incidentally, I'm in agreement that the people who aren't posting are the ones we need to hear from most. I don't think I ever want to hear a complaint about mafiascum's pace after this game and the last.
You start, Thor. Aside from me, who are you thinking is scum?
---
I *know* that you are a feeble-minded nit* who should have rotted in his pit of despair after your anti-Town performance in the previous game. I *know* this because you're literally pushing a mislynch as sold because of your site's obviously-and-discussed-to-death-as-arbitrary policy. I *know* that you are intentionally not responding to any of my arguments because you feel a curiously overriding need to push this lynch. And I *know* that I'm not the only person who would like for you to elaborate on this-- And I *know* that reaching out to you was in hindsight a mistake - not for doing it to start with, but because your opinions would have been useless no matter what.
Warning for flaming
Sure, I'm listening to what he has to say. But I'm fairly confident that I can read Vi better than he can because Thor isn't the type to get good meta grasps of people from what I know, but I do have a good meta grasp of Vi, and I'm reading him as town, as is everyone else who so much as pretends to know how to read him.
@Vi: Personal attacks now. Pitiful behavior. But thanks for that, because really it just makes your scumminess more apparent.
Maybe. I was hoping you would be restless to jump on a different wagon once that Vi wagon stalls out.
Come join me on Cyan, then!
What makes him different from his usual games?
What are your reasons?
We're past making arguments that you're scum, it's claim time, you're stalling, we're lynching.
What are the differences between Vi's play last game and this game?
What are the differences between Thor's play last game and this game?
Considering you and I have even had discussion about some of my other reads as recently as...like two hours ago, I see little need to dance to this tune. I am not shy about sharing my reads.
Why do you think Cyan is scum pursuing the current angle of attack he is?
If that happened I probably would move. If you want/expect that move to be to Cyan though I'll really need to see some sort of concise case I can actually stick a fork in though. I'd be about as happy running you up as running him up.
I don't believe in meta arguments.
actually, stuffed pizza time
forget this, I'll reread the game later
Cyan does!
Nacho why don't you come right out and tell us how you'll refuse to hammer the stalling scum, haha.
It seems she would just have to continue to observe. Unless some more excitement happened soon, this could be one of the lamest tests she's ever given.
/*-+-*/
Apologies for the wait concerning DYH. Hopefully this will be taken care of today!
/*-+-*/
wondrous
SEVENTH VOTE COUNT! (My brand!)
Vierni (5) - Cyan, Thor665, Kami of Lunacy, Voxxicus, Iso
Cyan (1) - Nachomamma8
Kami of Lunacy (2) - DYH, desCoures
Iso (1) - llamarble
llamarble (2) - Vierni, Tammy
Not Voting (1) - Cyouni
With 12 still alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
[Day One "deadline" is November 19.]
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
That's the thing. Cyan has been saying and doing scummy things for a long time now (the policy lynch angle is a classic sort of scum tactic you'd see on mafiascum) and yet some part of me can't shake the sense that he's being genuine (and a disgrace to all literate beings on the Internet). Part of the evidence of this would be that he's paranoid that I would go after him particularly were I to turn the tables - trying to word it out sounds strange but I think that kind of paranoia is more likely seen in Town; scum wouldn't want to seem scared or offer themselves up as a target, or something to that effect. It's definitely wrong, but it doesn't seem malicious and it does seem to match the profile of the person who was actively anti-Town paranoid in the first game's latter Days.
Mind, this also comes with the bonus that my totally justified critiques of his skill level are in fact warranted. I recognize that giving people a piece of my mind isn't a good way to get them on my side or for them to do as I like, but Cyan seems to have already put his feet in concrete on the matter, so!
I've already expressed the people I want to see die; namely llamarble and Goofball. Goofball pretty flagrantly isn't going to do anything but try and prop the wagon up as long as she can via any arguments necessary; that's my first pick for scum on my wagon.
---
@Nacho: Would you like to trade in your Cyan vote for a vote on either of the wagons mentioned above?
Nachomamma8, Llamarble, Tammy, or Cyouni?
DYH & desCoures are scum and therefore exempted from the hammer lottery.
I agree with a lot of this, which makes me wonder why you've been picking at him so much because his push looks so legit to me and yet you've really felt like you've been selling this Cyan=scum thing for a while. Even just the way you're constantly belittling him...as though that's going to help you get a read on him. It feels like scum defensive tactics, not scumhunting.
Is this any different from town Goofball? Because if so, I may really lack meta awareness of Goofball.
I listen to everything everyone has to say. I have a Thor read on Thor. I'm leaning town on him, but I'm not silly enough to call him *town* this early, especially when the few things I think I need to read him by haven't happened.
Besides, there are only a handful of people that I just *listen* to, and no offense to Thor, but he's not one of them. Nacho is, but even when I'm listening to him and when we're hydraing, I'm still questioning him every step of the way. The only time I just sheep someone's reasoning is when I don't have a read on someone of my own, when I think a wagon will help with a read on someone, and when it's near deadline and I don't have a reason to fight the wagon/don't have a strong read elsewhere to push it to.
I was on my phone. I probably misspelled cyan to begin with.
Hi! How you doin? Can you kindly answer my question about descoures? Thanks!
I also just realized that Llamarble completely ignored descoures asking him why he had me as a scum read.
Also, I realized as I was rereading that we're really playing an MS game here costaring Cyan and Iso and the rest of the Mtgsers (and llarmarble) are really just making cameos. That can stop any minute now.
Here's one thing I'm pretty sure of though: Vi scum = kami, Thor, and cyan town.
Regardless of Vi's alignment I'm leaning town on Thor. I want to call kami town but I'm not that stupid to do that day one. And I've gone oh yeah I remember why cyans scum, oh wait he's not, oh wait he is, nope he's not, ungh don't know.
So, what I've decided even given my misgivings, I'm not joining that wagon right now if at all today. Nacho isn't making me feel any better about wanting to when he can't even answer why. From what I can tell he went from going oh cyan is more likely town for the paranoia to oh wait he's scum for applauding thors case against Vi, who cyan already thought was scum.
But incidentally I don't think that Thor, or kami, can be objective about cyan because they're all in agreement about Vi being scum, so it feels right now like this reinforcement triangle.
I still like the DYH slot. I still think its *possible* he's white knighting Vi or I guess in the most extreme circumstances is buzzwording him, but I don't get that feeling.
Cyan - you say that your basically reserving judgment on iso because of a playstyle shift, but from his conversation with Vi this is more like his typical playstyle, so I'm trying to figure out your stance. Also what are your reads on your other fellow mtgsers?
Concerning Vi - earlier today I read through a couple recent Vi scum and town games, and quite frankly he's not playing like either. He did seem offended that I was potentially scum reading him in yoloville, I read him quickly as town in castle zar, he did the reach out thing as town in hxh and pushed quite strongly for a scum lynch day one. As far as scum, the only one relevant to here was black flag where I pegged his hydra early, and he did seem rather bitter to be caught early but the one thing that stood out to me was him townreading me but undermining that read with tiny potshots, but even in the midst of that there was some playful moments. So I'm not sure what to make of here. Definitely not joining that wagon now if ever because I still think the reAch out thing points more to town as does some of his frustration. I also think the claiming stall argument is weak as he could easily claim a pr to get the wagon off him or draw out a pr if he were scum, but I still am bothered that he did claim in yoloville to stop the distraction of him as scum and he's not here, so that's bothersome, especially since it was brought up in that game that he would actually be fine with a day one massclaim, so him holding off is weird. Actually my read might have just gotten weaker here, and an implication I thought I saw my be totally inaccurate.