As it turns out I didn't remember my password. Thus I am currently unable to post.
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Tammy - why the Town read on Cyan?
Picking up the text flag from before - DYH, you said that you're an accomplished D1 scumhunter. So far I'm still not seeing it. Do you have reads beyond Goofball?
Cyouni - first, I speak in roundabout ways because that's what I do. Second, because I was and still am torn about Cyan, primarily because of the people saying this is his normal game.
Question on that subject. To clarify, this is Cyan's normal Town game, or normal game in general?
While I'm here - I like how Voxxicus' reads turned out to be "Vi plus the two people defending Vi that are called Town by the least people". And by "like" I mean I'd love to see the candy-colored analysis post that would justify those reads.
Come on, why is Vi still alive? He hasn't gotten any less scummy. And he wanted to post a votecount for 'reasons that would soon be apparent'..like 4? days ago.
Come on, why is Vi still alive? He hasn't gotten any less scummy. And he wanted to post a votecount for 'reasons that would soon be apparent'..like 4? days ago.
Specifically to show that I'm not at L-2, Mr. Doocy, which is one of the reasons I haven't claimed.
I could just as easily turn it around on you. Why are you still alive, given that your recent posts have mostly been showing up, offering some bad excuse to call me scummy, and then disappearing again? That time you showed up after Nacho voted you to make a feeble protest was priceless.
How there are supposed to be twelve players in this game and yet I continue to be a permanent guest on Fox & Friends is a mystery beyond my understanding.
Although in unrelated news it appears I've found out what the Fox says.
@Thor: See, even though I was scum with you last game and knew your alignment, I completely agreed with Kami's case on you. I was actually infuriated enough in the early game that I wanted to see you hang beyond just the amazing TownCred points it would've bought me. Kami's attack here on Vi is utter garbage. That's the sticking point for me.
So, KoL, tell me exactly what else has been "utter rubbish" in my previous posts. It seems like you have more of an issue with my ultimate conclusion - as Tammy noted - and the lack of posts, themselves (get over it), than with anything contained in them.
@DYH - the above *appears* to be a response to me poo-pooing your 'Fear of Vi' case.
It appears to do so with a substitution of the case into another form. No longer is it 'fear of Vi' it is 'quality of Kami's overall case'.
Okay.
So, we agree you shifting multiple players on the fear of Vi aspect was silly, excellent.
I am also content that you are trying to clarify Kami's position about why your case sucks the big one.
Can you also clarify why Kami's attack is utter garbage in your eyes?
The one-two punch seems like it would help your position.
Come on, why is Vi still alive? He hasn't gotten any less scummy. And he wanted to post a votecount for 'reasons that would soon be apparent'..like 4? days ago.
Specifically to show that I'm not at L-2, Mr. Doocy, which is one of the reasons I haven't claimed.
I could just as easily turn it around on you. Why are you still alive, given that your recent posts have mostly been showing up, offering some bad excuse to call me scummy, and then disappearing again? That time you showed up after Nacho voted you to make a feeble protest was priceless.
The bitter hostility in this post is so outright scummy that I don't even know what to say. The OMGUS/deflection it is coupled with are a nice touch also.
How can anyone justify not voting Vierni? Are you just not actually reading his posts?
I think you misunderstand me, Thor. My 'sticking point' is the issue with Kami in that last game I agreed with her premise of the case on you - even though I had inside information. She was town, she made a good push against you.
My problem here is that I don't agree with her thoughts about Vi from last game, and she drops a wall in 256 designed to propel the wagon forward with them. Here she is unknown alignment making a bad push filled with misinformation.
There is a disconnect between these two things; hence the reason I am voting KoL. See: why I asked Cyan about KoL. She was doing KoL things at that point, now she's doing other things which I don't like.
I already addressed why #256 sucks in my post above.
I have no idea what you're trying to say in the last portion of that post.
And my response says enough. It's telling you that I think Vi's response to being voted sounded town to me. Sometimes things feel like town post just as sometimes they feel like a scum post. If you disagree feel free to tell me why you disagree. Clearly you feel like everyone should have reasons for why they do or don't like it and if you did like it you wouldn't be asking me about it because it would resonate with you. So, why did you take issue with it?
Even if I did like it, I'd be asking you about it.
I don't like it because it's an odd reaction to be having to someone she just offered to work with.
My primary point with that last section was that I am offering my opinions by questioning things, which you even noted. On that note, specify where I am not offering my opinions or interacting, as you stated earlier.
How is it an odd reaction to have to someone who's response to said request to work together was to immediately vote him. Rejection sucks.
And not really to your second point. Saying things just like explain is easy to do as scum because it gives the illusion of being engaged but isn't really offering anything, and since you say that you would have asked me to explain whether or not you liked it your original point is negated.
(Have you thought to meta them in more than just that one game though? :p. couldn't resist.)
My reads aren't confused and unsure on those matters - so I have no need to seek clarification. If I wanted clarification then, yes, I would look at more games to gain it.
I like his interactions with me. That and he feels like he believes what he's saying. The response about how dgb discredited him so that he can't be viewed as obvtown when you flip scum felt town. Obviously he has enough experience to know that bussing happens, but it didn't feel orchestrated.
@Thor: See, even though I was scum with you last game and knew your alignment, I completely agreed with Kami's case on you. I was actually infuriated enough in the early game that I wanted to see you hang beyond just the amazing TownCred points it would've bought me. Kami's attack here on Vi is utter garbage. That's the sticking point for me.
So, KoL, tell me exactly what else has been "utter rubbish" in my previous posts. It seems like you have more of an issue with my ultimate conclusion - as Tammy noted - and the lack of posts, themselves (get over it), than with anything contained in them.
(Have you thought to meta them in more than just that one game though? :p. couldn't resist.)
My reads aren't confused and unsure on those matters - so I have no need to seek clarification. If I wanted clarification then, yes, I would look at more games to gain it.
I felt it was a joke coming from a position of you still feeling 'right' about your stance and that my stance was 'wrong' and I chose to respond to defend my position since it was quite different and wish you to understand why i thought so.
Someone stole my laptop, so access is going to be considerably limited until I track down the mother****er and take it back.
On the plus side, mafia is a wonderful source of relieving stress, so the next run I make in this game will probably have the passion that Tammy has been seeking.
(Have you thought to meta them in more than just that one game though? :p. couldn't resist.)
My reads aren't confused and unsure on those matters - so I have no need to seek clarification. If I wanted clarification then, yes, I would look at more games to gain it.
I felt it was a joke coming from a position of you still feeling 'right' about your stance and that my stance was 'wrong' and I chose to respond to defend my position since it was quite different and wish you to understand why i thought so.
Tammy - have you read anything Cyan has said about me? Also, I'm getting a little jaded about the "classic scum maneuver" line until you find something that isn't expletive goes here; please tell me if I missed something else in that post that is causing you to read him as Town.
Also while I did mention that DYH has limited his scumhunting to one person Goofball was the one that said that all of his posts were rubbish.
Also I need to find an ad blocking system for my phone because loading a page should seriously not cause the app store to pop up.
V/LA ~3 days. Possibly a permanent V/LA (translation : need replacement, multiple months away from site) - but please don't replace me prior to the 3 days being up, and I know exactly what's going on.
Between you and me, is there really a science at this point? These drones just follow their queen and conduct tests like good little subjects. It's about time someone sticks it to the man-- er, woman. Robot?
/*-+-*/
Voxxicus's situation noted. At prod time, your replacement will be instantly sought.
/*-+-*/
wondrous FIFTH VOTE COUNT! (At least you're not a potato!) Cyouni (1) - Tammy Thor665 (3) - Vierni, desCoures, llamarble Vierni (4) - Cyan, Thor665, Kami of Lunacy, Iso Cyan (1) - Nachomamma8 Kami of Lunacy (1) - DYH
I have to laugh at 3 people voting for Thor. If last game was an example of Thor being scum, then no one has any business voting for him at this point this game. His behavior couldn't be more different.
Not at all surprisingly, scum-Vierni is one of the people voting for him.
What?
Any analysis says that had nothing to do with Iso's reason for saying they're busing. Paraphrasing, it says something to the effect of "I think you're busing (face it, it worked well for DYH), and I think you're all scum."
You're completely ignoring the part where he says he's reading them all as scum, and I'd like to know why.
...because he basically hasn't said a thing about why they're supposedly all scum? And I find him suddenly accusing Vi and Thor suspect? And that I further find Thor not immediately jumping on him for that ridiculous assertion suspect?
You know, it worries me that I have no idea what any of your opinions actually are. You're talking at various people and asking many questions, but I'm not actually seeing what the point of any of them are.
@desCoures - why have you not weighed in on the Vi question when that is fairly painfully the obvious and major wagon? You weigh in on *so much* in that post...but say so little about your actual opinions. I am not a fan of it.
Read.
On Vi.
Go!
I would have thought my opinion of this whole fracas was rather clear, from me having my vote on you.
For posterity, though, I'll clarify point by point.
1. I doubt both of you are scum at this point. I didn't like your early play, and I don't like your interactions with Iso.
2. Normally I quote-mark and then go over anything I find interesting/questionable. I haven't seen much questionable from Vierni past the first few weird posts.
3. I think your attack (re: avoiding the question) was somewhat valid, but ultimately unconvincing, because your posts in-game are in fact as long, winding, and hard to navigate as the Grand Canyon. I can understand someone not wanting to engage you.
4. I find KoL's attack utterly nonsensical.
In other news, I'm increasingly uncomfortable with Cyouni.
I find Llama's dancing worse than Iso's belligerence - that feels similar to last game to me.
I'm torn on desCourse...didn't he get strung up for being a fencesitting pile in people's opinions last game? He's certainly doing that here, but my personal perception was that he was way more dynamic and actually digging at stuff. Here he just feels like he's batting at stuff like a cat.
No, I got strung up because an overconfident cop and a false-confirmed scum were on me, and nearly everyone else shut off their brains. No one had a real case on me except Vierni - everyone else was following the cop blindly.
And I'll be frank. This game isn't exactly my first priority right now. I've just gotten two additional projects dumped in my lap that have to be done by the end of November. And then I'll be out of the country on the first week of December. Not a good time.
I don't get your reasoning on the third point. I thought it made a lot of sense for DYH to ask Cyan about his expectations on Kami based on their experience in the last game. If he had never seen Kami play, he might not know that a good portion of her game is based on gaining reactions, but he has played with her before and has seen her make similar posts, so it shouldn't come as a surprise. To me it looked like DYH was trying to figure out Cyan's thought process on the matter, which could have developed into a conversation about his reactions in this game.
That last bit. That's what I meant when I said it felt like a leading question. Like he was trying to lead Cyan down a certain route. That's why it made me uncomfortable.
But thinking about it, there's nothing inherently scummy about that. And I like what I see out of DYH right now, especially re: KoL.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Is there a point somewhere in that wall post that I am missing?
That your entire case-based-on-previous-game on Vierni is blatantly inaccurate, totally revisionist, and therefore krap logick in the extreme?
It is my perception. However if you were honest, you'd reckon that you buddy's demeanor is different here, and realize that this is change in demeanor is only a introduction to the actual case. But you're scum, so I don't expect to convince you.
DYH is scum for lurkaderping, displaying no interest in scum hunting, and chronic not-reading-the-game-itis.
You call DYH out for 'lurking' while ignoring Voxxicus?
Your buddy DYH really got my attention when he voted me. That was a big mistake. Discuss it with him in your scum QT. Say this: "Hey DYH, if you're going to lurkaderp the game, don't draw KoL's attention with a vote, she might go rabid on you."
You call DYH out for 'not-reading-the-game' when Cyan mistook Iso for me?
Yeah your buddy is totally not reading the game at all. Tell him to shape it up or your team is on a losing track.
Your accusations are more and more empty.
Hello DesCoures,
Thank you for the OMGUS vote to distract from the wagon on your buddy Vi and your other buddy DYH, and validating my scum reads on the whole lot of you.
And I'll be frank. This game isn't exactly my first priority right now. I've just gotten two additional projects dumped in my lap that have to be done by the end of November. And then I'll be out of the country on the first week of December. Not a good time.
3. I think your attack (re: avoiding the question) was somewhat valid, but ultimately unconvincing, because your posts in-game are in fact as long, winding, and hard to navigate as the Grand Canyon. I can understand someone not wanting to engage you.
I feel I've actually been rather succinct this game except for a few long walls where I address multiple people/subjects but all with short replies. Can you point out one of my hard to follow long posts so I know what to avoid? (aka - I don't think I'm doing what you say I'm doing and want you to back it up)
And I'll be frank. This game isn't exactly my first priority right now. I've just gotten two additional projects dumped in my lap that have to be done by the end of November. And then I'll be out of the country on the first week of December. Not a good time.
So...you're agreeing with me in that I'm noticing your play as weak and different in this game?
@Vi: Then what's with all those comments re: Cyan previous to that?
Also provide reasons as to why you found Thor's posts scummy prev to vote. (Did I say this before?)
@Tammy: So your immediate response to being voted by a person you asked to cooperate is to completely stonewall them? (that's not the right word but w/e)
Also there is a difference between liking/not liking a statement and finding someone's comment odd. Unless you people think scum busing each other never happens, in which case enjoy your magicalchristmasland. (Mainly saying this because this came up in the last game.)
Also there is a multiquote button next to the quote button.
@dC: And now you're bringing up the point you should have. Not focusing on some odd thing about a simile.
Jokes aside, I like where dC's vote ended up, but Thor is on to something with the response to his post. On the flip side, I also appreciate dC's comments about Cyouni.
@Cyouni: Are you actually going to address dC's remarks or just make light of them?
I am glad enough mental faculties remain for me to actually check to see whether I did that or not before I answered. Apparently I'm not completing things properly today.
@dC: Aside from the fact that Thor did jump on him for that? And the fact that your only real voiced issue has been with the simile (you reference horrendous logic, and refer only to that simile in all cases)?
You said before that, paraphrased to some degree, "if that krap logick reason is vanished, all that's left is a naked assertion".
I'm disturbed by the fact that you've just let said naked assertion sit and chosen to focus instead on the tenuous simile which isn't even the main focus of the statement.
I still think DGB is doing a good job if she's scum.
DC is a maybescum.
Vi wagon is stell meh.
Cyan votes are good.
Tammy and Nacho could be scum but don't seem megalikely at this point.
I don't know why Iso is a townread for lots of people.
Cyouni, Voxxicus meh.
Thor is a potential scumbag.
DYH seems legit so far but has low postcount.
Iso and Cyan may be the best lynches so far though?
I think I'll Unvote; Vote: Iso
Cyan is doing that thing where he latches on to someone and construes them to be scum for every action they take. This is more likely a good sign that he is town.
Unvote
Thor is acting completely different than he did last game - Kami's comment about him seeming "happier" is totally on the mark.
@dC: My questioning Cyan about last game feeds directly into the question I asked this game. He was so off-the-mark about Kami that I wanted to understand what he saw differently this time that would warrant him to be suspicious again. While he got her gender wrong, I understand the point he was making. That, coupled with his rabid attraction to Vierni has me feeling fine about him.
You and Iso have drastically different reads than me at this point, and that's alarming.
I'm going to fence-sit this Vierni wagon and :munch:.
Well, Iso, because you and I have this knack for nabbing people early.
desCoures because - while I made up a bunch of crap last game about how "off" his reads were - well, it was just that. Me making stuff up. Which I seem to recall dC saying was exactly what I was doing. What I didn't make up last game is how dC is generally the benchmark for analysts.
So, with that said - I feel good about my reads, but the two of you dissenting says that the likelihood I'm off is higher and/or there's scum amongst you.
I don't think Kami's analysis of Vi is correct at all. I realize desCoures has already touched on this, somewhat, but as someone who was scum last game - even if I didn't control the kill until Thor had died - I didn't feel that way about her at all. I tried to put some doubt in the other townies about her, but the way she strode into the last day made it very clear that route was going nowhere. Vierni didn't get killed because there were other pressing matters like a doc, a vig, and a gunsmith. It's incredibly disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Those were the only three scum kills. Had I been forced to kill someone Night 4, it would have very obviously been Vierni.
So, my read on KoL has flipped in one post - and by extension, my read on Vierni - who I was previously leaning over the scum side of the fence towards.
@Thor: See, even though I was scum with you last game and knew your alignment, I completely agreed with Kami's case on you. I was actually infuriated enough in the early game that I wanted to see you hang beyond just the amazing TownCred points it would've bought me. Kami's attack here on Vi is utter garbage. That's the sticking point for me.
So, KoL, tell me exactly what else has been "utter rubbish" in my previous posts. It seems like you have more of an issue with my ultimate conclusion - as Tammy noted - and the lack of posts, themselves (get over it), than with anything contained in them.
I think you misunderstand me, Thor. My 'sticking point' is the issue with Kami in that last game I agreed with her premise of the case on you - even though I had inside information. She was town, she made a good push against you.
My problem here is that I don't agree with her thoughts about Vi from last game, and she drops a wall in 256 designed to propel the wagon forward with them. Here she is unknown alignment making a bad push filled with misinformation.
There is a disconnect between these two things; hence the reason I am voting KoL. See: why I asked Cyan about KoL. She was doing KoL things at that point, now she's doing other things which I don't like.
I already addressed why #256 sucks in my post above.
I like the idea of voting Iso, but if he is scum, he would only place the vote on Vierni that he did if Vierni were also scum. So ultimately, I still just want to lynch Vierni.
@Tammy: So your immediate response to being voted by a person you asked to cooperate is to completely stonewall them? (that's not the right word but w/e)
Also there is a difference between liking/not liking a statement and finding someone's comment odd. Unless you people think scum busing each other never happens, in which case enjoy your magicalchristmasland. (Mainly saying this because this came up in the last game.)
I'd say stonewall isn't even in the same dictionary for what you're looking for. Vi's response to said vote rejection was to be like hey I realize there's a reason for that rejection though it's wrong and I'm town so you should get you vote off me. But me if I offered to work with someone and they basically told me to **** off, roses and candy I would not be sending.
I have no idea the purpose of the second point. If this is still part of the whole 'explain' thing not actually offering up you're own opinions but looking busy to seem engaged, you're not going to change my mind on that. Some of your later stuff is looking better in that regard, but my earlier point still stands.
And of course I know bussing exists. Why would you suggest I didn't.
Quote from "cyouni" »
Also there is a multiquote button next to the quote button.
I know. Unfortunately, my million woman march campaigns against the abuse of quote stripes have fallen on deaf ears and as such it's remained in place.
(That and I work on my iPad a lot, which doesn't let me quote stripe.)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It is utterly uninteresting that Vi experienced an impulse but something else determined their behavior.
That Vi decided to mention said impulse anyway is also uninteresting.
This will be a game where we find scum by actually thinking about things.
"Why choose to accuse all of your scumreads at the same time?"
Because I like solving the game on Day 1.
And duh? Like I said, busing early worked splendidly for DYH in round 1 - I see no reason the scum wouldn't immediately try to distance in this game as a result. After all, Cyan was the only one paranoid enough to call out DYH in the endgame, and he's scum in this game.
I don't get what this bit has to do with anything.
Well now I don't remember, either. I was probably trying to make a connection between Cyan and Vi apparent to dC but I lost it somewhere in the Isologic.
Nothing makes one more aware of the game dynamics than being wagoned themselves. Vierni is still oblivious.
I think Vierni rolled scum and was looking forward to dazzling us all with her scum game. And now she's sad, because it doesn't look so good anymore. EvilThor is caught her instead of being fooled by her, Brainless Goofball caught her... that worthless Iso that got wagoned and vig'ed early last game... how humiliating.
She's given up inside, she's trying to keep a brave front. But I see through it.
Wait, how does the bolded mesh? Also, in my experience, the description of being non-self-aware generally comes from town instead of scum. Are you trying to suggest that Vi is overplaying her hand in this regard? Because otherwise, I don't think I see what you're getting at.
Vi's #257 reads weirdly, like townie "****, no one's listening to me" mixed with scum bitterness. I don't know what to make of it.
3. nah
4. I'm saying you approached her like you approached me [in game 1]. And seeing as that's the case, it was how I caught you [in game 1] so I'm going to use it as proof you're scum [in this game].
5. Well I've explained my scumThor read above; as for the rest, Vi didn't answer my question early on, her response to Cyan's vote was poor, and I'm completely uncompelled by what I've seen from her play so far. Additionally, Cyan's a crafty scum; he could probably sense a Vi wagon was going to develop and jumped on before it seemed like there was blood in the water to avert suspicion (it's what I would do), and something about him feels off so far in this game. I've been duped by scumCyan before (Redux 2, though the town ultimately won that when ZDS, AE, and I lynched Cyan at endgame) and I'm not eager to have that performance repeat itself [in regards to my read on Cyan].
How do you think he sensed a Vi wagon would start?
Probably with his brain.
(Real answer: I've always found it fairly easy to determine the direction the game is going to sway beforehand, barring information reveals such as claims and Night action results. Do you not think Cyan is capable enough a player to determine such things, or are you basing your interpretation of his play on your own inability to do something similar?)
Wait. Is part of your reasoning for finding Vi scum because he didn't rvs vote? Because if that's the case why don't you find kami or nacho scummy for posting in rvs and not voting right away?
I'm pretty sure reading comprehension will take you far in this game.
As it stands, no, what piqued my interest in Vi is that she refused to explain when I questioned her about the lack of vote. The "that" in the post of mine you quoted is the lack of explanation, not the lack of vote, itself.
3. nah
4. I'm saying you approached her like you approached me [in game 1]. And seeing as that's the case, it was how I caught you [in game 1] so I'm going to use it as proof you're scum [in this game].
5. Well I've explained my scumThor read above; as for the rest, Vi didn't answer my question early on, her response to Cyan's vote was poor, and I'm completely uncompelled by what I've seen from her play so far. Additionally, Cyan's a crafty scum; he could probably sense a Vi wagon was going to develop and jumped on before it seemed like there was blood in the water to avert suspicion (it's what I would do), and something about him feels off so far in this game. I've been duped by scumCyan before (Redux 2, though the town ultimately won that when ZDS, AE, and I lynched Cyan at endgame) and I'm not eager to have that performance repeat itself [in regards to my read on Cyan].
How do you think he sensed a Vi wagon would start?
He doesn't. Nor does he have a valid reason for thinking I'm scum, he's just playing the typical scum card of 'pump up a person's ego'. Because basically no one is ever going to respond with 'you're lying I suck at being scum'. Well, no one worth acknowledging anyway. This line of 'thought' is the ultimate scum trap, because a townie has no really effective way of arguing against it.
Iso is likely scum here, and is just bussing Vierni. Actually, he's probably scum regardless of Vierni's alignment, but I like the Vierni wagon alot and want to see it to the conclusion.
Or...y'know...see above.
Also, what? You're taking my wariness of you with a grain of salt after you've proven that your scum game in Redux 2 outplayed my town game in Redux 2? Pardon me for being dubious. Additionally, I dislike how this post plays out - it's a rather sneaky way of setting up a chain lynch, regardless of what Vi flips; Cyan can say, "Oh, Iso was busing" if Vi flips scum, and "Oh, Iso was responsible for the Vi wagon" if Vi flips town.
"Why choose to accuse all of your scumreads at the same time?"
Because I like solving the game on Day 1.
And duh? Like I said, busing early worked splendidly for DYH in round 1 - I see no reason the scum wouldn't immediately try to distance in this game as a result. After all, Cyan was the only one paranoid enough to call out DYH in the endgame, and he's scum in this game.
Except none of that happened. DYH distanced unilaterally, and it still didn't save him from suspicion - only Voxx's unyielding faith in his PR saved him. I recall DYH's 'bussing' doing exactly nothing last game, in fact.
Disagree. DYH's push on Fate didn't do much, but I think his adamance against Thor was in his favor. Combined with Voxx's result, it allowed DYH the credibility long enough to push the last mislynch for game over.
I'm sad that you think my logic is crappy, though. After all, the artificial-seeming exchange between Cyan and DYH on Day 1 of last game is what made me question my read of them (mostly DYH) to begin with, but there was enough of a distraction in Thor that I didn't pursue my gut - another time I should've done so.
I also disagree with you in regards to things you've said about me to other players, but I'm not going to interrupt those lines of inquiry, so feel free to remind me later to provide an explanation on why I :no:'d to a couple of things you mentioned.
The # of posts that he has in this game is much lower than I would normally expect from him as town, but, I'm not sure how much of a point against him that is.
I've been V/LA for like 7 or 8 days total since this game has started. As I've stated before, postcount is not indicative of my alignment - merely my IRL time constraints.
I don't think Kami's analysis of Vi is correct at all. I realize desCoures has already touched on this, somewhat, but as someone who was scum last game - even if I didn't control the kill until Thor had died - I didn't feel that way about her at all. I tried to put some doubt in the other townies about her, but the way she strode into the last day made it very clear that route was going nowhere. Vierni didn't get killed because there were other pressing matters like a doc, a vig, and a gunsmith. It's incredibly disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Those were the only three scum kills. Had I been forced to kill someone Night 4, it would have very obviously been Vierni.
So, my read on KoL has flipped in one post - and by extension, my read on Vierni - who I was previously leaning over the scum side of the fence towards.
Vote: Kami
Good of you to join us. What do you make of my issue with Kami's interpretation of the emotional aspect of Vi's posts and the conclusion Kami reached as a result?
I could just as easily turn it around on you. Why are you still alive, given that your recent posts have mostly been showing up, offering some bad excuse to call me scummy, and then disappearing again? That time you showed up after Nacho voted you to make a feeble protest was priceless.
This is OMGUS.
As for the behavior you're describing, it's fairly common Cyan meta to drive-by post like this when he's not bulldogging.
Actually, speaking of Cyan meta, I've just recalled that he has a propensity for NON-busing early on as scum, even if the wagon is obviously going to collect at least a few votes.
I think I need to re-read the game to remind myself of why I thought what I thought when I thought it and to reexamine the Vi/Cyan interactions, at least in regards to what a town flip from any of them means for the others.
@Thor: See, even though I was scum with you last game and knew your alignment, I completely agreed with Kami's case on you. I was actually infuriated enough in the early game that I wanted to see you hang beyond just the amazing TownCred points it would've bought me. Kami's attack here on Vi is utter garbage. That's the sticking point for me.
Wouldn't the former be more a result of you being able to necessarily agree with Kami's posts, strictly from the standpoint that you knew Thor was scum? Because to my recollection, Kami didn't convincingly sway any townies in the last game towards Thor (as I thought Thor was scum of my own volition through my brain-shreddingly exasperating exchange with him, and I was pretty much the only other person who thought he was scum at that point to my recollection).
Come on, why is Vi still alive? He hasn't gotten any less scummy. And he wanted to post a votecount for 'reasons that would soon be apparent'..like 4? days ago.
Specifically to show that I'm not at L-2, Mr. Doocy, which is one of the reasons I haven't claimed.
I could just as easily turn it around on you. Why are you still alive, given that your recent posts have mostly been showing up, offering some bad excuse to call me scummy, and then disappearing again? That time you showed up after Nacho voted you to make a feeble protest was priceless.
The bitter hostility in this post is so outright scummy that I don't even know what to say. The OMGUS/deflection it is coupled with are a nice touch also.
How can anyone justify not voting Vierni? Are you just not actually reading his posts?
I have to laugh at 3 people voting for Thor. If last game was an example of Thor being scum, then no one has any business voting for him at this point this game. His behavior couldn't be more different.
Not at all surprisingly, scum-Vierni is one of the people voting for him.
I'm starting to come around to this, as well. I think I started drawing parallels to last game because I wanted to be right about him to get the chance for a vendetta lynch on scum early on, given that I was the target of his incredibly frustrating push in game 1's Day 1. This is probably further indication that I need to re-read this game when I get a moment to do so.
I like the idea of voting Iso, but if he is scum, he would only place the vote on Vierni that he did if Vierni were also scum.
Based on?
Can't wait to see you try to flop your "opinion" on this come Day 2.
As a matter of fact, Unvote, Vote Cyan
Something's been bothering me about how this game has been progressing in my absence, but I can't put my finger on it. I'll probably try to shoot for a re-read on Friday (my actual birthday day :toot:).
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Cyouni: I answered this question fairly early; see my response to desCoures' first post. I also went into it in some detail with Thor but etc.
Iso - just so we're on the same page, you're still holding to Cyan+Vi turbobussing, correct?
Also, no, unless there's something special about that exchange that would cause me to remember it I don't offhand recall what you're talking about. To contrast, I drove the Cyouni wagon multiple times.
--
Plot twist.
Vote: llamarble (probably L-6)
Because while I acknowledge his early posts are usually bad that last one wins some kind of award for it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The truth is only one.
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Carry on.
-
Tammy - why the Town read on Cyan?
Picking up the text flag from before - DYH, you said that you're an accomplished D1 scumhunter. So far I'm still not seeing it. Do you have reads beyond Goofball?
Cyouni - first, I speak in roundabout ways because that's what I do. Second, because I was and still am torn about Cyan, primarily because of the people saying this is his normal game.
Question on that subject. To clarify, this is Cyan's normal Town game, or normal game in general?
While I'm here - I like how Voxxicus' reads turned out to be "Vi plus the two people defending Vi that are called Town by the least people". And by "like" I mean I'd love to see the candy-colored analysis post that would justify those reads.
Thor probably didn't care about me last game because I ignored him for the first two days. Obviously.
@Goofball - Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're calling DYH scum because he may have read my posts and come to a different conclusion as you, correct?
Thank you, scum, for the loaded question.
DYH is scum for lurkaderping, displaying no interest in scum hunting, and chronic not-reading-the-game-itis.
Specifically to show that I'm not at L-2, Mr. Doocy, which is one of the reasons I haven't claimed.
I could just as easily turn it around on you. Why are you still alive, given that your recent posts have mostly been showing up, offering some bad excuse to call me scummy, and then disappearing again? That time you showed up after Nacho voted you to make a feeble protest was priceless.
Although in unrelated news it appears I've found out what the Fox says.
So, KoL, tell me exactly what else has been "utter rubbish" in my previous posts. It seems like you have more of an issue with my ultimate conclusion - as Tammy noted - and the lack of posts, themselves (get over it), than with anything contained in them.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
It appears to do so with a substitution of the case into another form. No longer is it 'fear of Vi' it is 'quality of Kami's overall case'.
Okay.
So, we agree you shifting multiple players on the fear of Vi aspect was silly, excellent.
I am also content that you are trying to clarify Kami's position about why your case sucks the big one.
Can you also clarify why Kami's attack is utter garbage in your eyes?
The one-two punch seems like it would help your position.
The bitter hostility in this post is so outright scummy that I don't even know what to say. The OMGUS/deflection it is coupled with are a nice touch also.
How can anyone justify not voting Vierni? Are you just not actually reading his posts?
Why is bitter hostility a scumtell?
My problem here is that I don't agree with her thoughts about Vi from last game, and she drops a wall in 256 designed to propel the wagon forward with them. Here she is unknown alignment making a bad push filled with misinformation.
There is a disconnect between these two things; hence the reason I am voting KoL. See: why I asked Cyan about KoL. She was doing KoL things at that point, now she's doing other things which I don't like.
I already addressed why #256 sucks in my post above.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
How is it an odd reaction to have to someone who's response to said request to work together was to immediately vote him. Rejection sucks.
And not really to your second point. Saying things just like explain is easy to do as scum because it gives the illusion of being engaged but isn't really offering anything, and since you say that you would have asked me to explain whether or not you liked it your original point is negated.
I hope to get a chance to read through the previous game over the next couple days.
(Have you thought to meta them in more than just that one game though? :p. couldn't resist.)
My reads aren't confused and unsure on those matters - so I have no need to seek clarification. If I wanted clarification then, yes, I would look at more games to gain it.
I like his interactions with me. That and he feels like he believes what he's saying. The response about how dgb discredited him so that he can't be viewed as obvtown when you flip scum felt town. Obviously he has enough experience to know that bussing happens, but it didn't feel orchestrated.
I also liked this post quite a bit.
My only slight reservation is some possible distancing from iso, but it's nothing I'm worrying about right now and am just making a note of in case.
I think that was Vi who noted that.
...you do realize that was a joke, right?
----------
In other news I also quite like DYH.
On the plus side, mafia is a wonderful source of relieving stress, so the next run I make in this game will probably have the passion that Tammy has been seeking.
Thor, are you a robot?
Also while I did mention that DYH has limited his scumhunting to one person Goofball was the one that said that all of his posts were rubbish.
Also I need to find an ad blocking system for my phone because loading a page should seriously not cause the app store to pop up.
V/LA ~3 days. Possibly a permanent V/LA (translation : need replacement, multiple months away from site) - but please don't replace me prior to the 3 days being up, and I know exactly what's going on.
Have you iso'd him before making this statement? I highly recommend the exercise.
Between you and me, is there really a science at this point? These drones just follow their queen and conduct tests like good little subjects. It's about time someone sticks it to the man-- er, woman. Robot?
/*-+-*/
Voxxicus's situation noted. At prod time, your replacement will be instantly sought.
/*-+-*/
wondrous
FIFTH VOTE COUNT! (At least you're not a potato!)
Cyouni (1) - Tammy
Thor665 (3) - Vierni, desCoures, llamarble
Vierni (4) - Cyan, Thor665, Kami of Lunacy, Iso
Cyan (1) - Nachomamma8
Kami of Lunacy (1) - DYH
Not Voting (2) - Cyouni, Voxxicus
With 12 still alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
Not at all surprisingly, scum-Vierni is one of the people voting for him.
@KoL
That your entire case-based-on-previous-game on Vierni is blatantly inaccurate, totally revisionist, and therefore krap logick in the extreme?
You call DYH out for 'lurking' while ignoring Voxxicus?
You call DYH out for 'not-reading-the-game' when Cyan mistook Iso for me?
Your accusations are more and more empty.
@Cyouni
...because he basically hasn't said a thing about why they're supposedly all scum? And I find him suddenly accusing Vi and Thor suspect? And that I further find Thor not immediately jumping on him for that ridiculous assertion suspect?
You know, it worries me that I have no idea what any of your opinions actually are. You're talking at various people and asking many questions, but I'm not actually seeing what the point of any of them are.
@Thor665
I would have thought my opinion of this whole fracas was rather clear, from me having my vote on you.
For posterity, though, I'll clarify point by point.
1. I doubt both of you are scum at this point. I didn't like your early play, and I don't like your interactions with Iso.
2. Normally I quote-mark and then go over anything I find interesting/questionable. I haven't seen much questionable from Vierni past the first few weird posts.
3. I think your attack (re: avoiding the question) was somewhat valid, but ultimately unconvincing, because your posts in-game are in fact as long, winding, and hard to navigate as the Grand Canyon. I can understand someone not wanting to engage you.
4. I find KoL's attack utterly nonsensical.
In other news, I'm increasingly uncomfortable with Cyouni.
No, I got strung up because an overconfident cop and a false-confirmed scum were on me, and nearly everyone else shut off their brains. No one had a real case on me except Vierni - everyone else was following the cop blindly.
And I'll be frank. This game isn't exactly my first priority right now. I've just gotten two additional projects dumped in my lap that have to be done by the end of November. And then I'll be out of the country on the first week of December. Not a good time.
@Tammy
That last bit. That's what I meant when I said it felt like a leading question. Like he was trying to lead Cyan down a certain route. That's why it made me uncomfortable.
But thinking about it, there's nothing inherently scummy about that. And I like what I see out of DYH right now, especially re: KoL.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
...actually, you know what?
Unvote: Thor665
Vote: Kami of Lunacy
/sheep
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Hello DesCoures,
Thank you for the OMGUS vote to distract from the wagon on your buddy Vi and your other buddy DYH, and validating my scum reads on the whole lot of you.
DGB
RL excuses! Mafiagasm!
You're totes scum now.
You're very transparent.
Says the player, being belligerent about admitting that I'm right.
Why did you dislike my early play since you also disliked Vi's early play and I was attacking that and you even agree it was 'somewhat valid'?
I feel I've actually been rather succinct this game except for a few long walls where I address multiple people/subjects but all with short replies. Can you point out one of my hard to follow long posts so I know what to avoid? (aka - I don't think I'm doing what you say I'm doing and want you to back it up)
So...you're agreeing with me in that I'm noticing your play as weak and different in this game?
@Vi: Then what's with all those comments re: Cyan previous to that?
Also provide reasons as to why you found Thor's posts scummy prev to vote. (Did I say this before?)
@Tammy: So your immediate response to being voted by a person you asked to cooperate is to completely stonewall them? (that's not the right word but w/e)
Also there is a difference between liking/not liking a statement and finding someone's comment odd. Unless you people think scum busing each other never happens, in which case enjoy your magicalchristmasland. (Mainly saying this because this came up in the last game.)
Also there is a multiquote button next to the quote button.
@dC: And now you're bringing up the point you should have. Not focusing on some odd thing about a simile.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
@Cyouni: Are you actually going to address dC's remarks or just make light of them?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
@dC: Aside from the fact that Thor did jump on him for that? And the fact that your only real voiced issue has been with the simile (you reference horrendous logic, and refer only to that simile in all cases)?
You said before that, paraphrased to some degree, "if that krap logick reason is vanished, all that's left is a naked assertion".
I'm disturbed by the fact that you've just let said naked assertion sit and chosen to focus instead on the tenuous simile which isn't even the main focus of the statement.
DC is a maybescum.
Vi wagon is stell meh.
Cyan votes are good.
Tammy and Nacho could be scum but don't seem megalikely at this point.
I don't know why Iso is a townread for lots of people.
Cyouni, Voxxicus meh.
Thor is a potential scumbag.
DYH seems legit so far but has low postcount.
Iso and Cyan may be the best lynches so far though?
I think I'll Unvote; Vote: Iso
Thor is pedantic.
Thor not go away.
Answer pl0x!
Yup.
Obviously to didn't take one minute to iso DYH and read all six of his rubbish posts.
Can we have an extension to lynch DYH?
I'd say stonewall isn't even in the same dictionary for what you're looking for. Vi's response to said vote rejection was to be like hey I realize there's a reason for that rejection though it's wrong and I'm town so you should get you vote off me. But me if I offered to work with someone and they basically told me to **** off, roses and candy I would not be sending.
I have no idea the purpose of the second point. If this is still part of the whole 'explain' thing not actually offering up you're own opinions but looking busy to seem engaged, you're not going to change my mind on that. Some of your later stuff is looking better in that regard, but my earlier point still stands.
And of course I know bussing exists. Why would you suggest I didn't.
I know. Unfortunately, my million woman march campaigns against the abuse of quote stripes have fallen on deaf ears and as such it's remained in place.
(That and I work on my iPad a lot, which doesn't let me quote stripe.)
This seems to scream for further explanation.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What does this even mean? Who is "they"?
So...you remember that, but not the exchange I had with Cyan at the beginning of the game which led to him voting me? Color me skeptical.
Well now I don't remember, either. I was probably trying to make a connection between Cyan and Vi apparent to dC but I lost it somewhere in the Isologic.
Wait, how does the bolded mesh? Also, in my experience, the description of being non-self-aware generally comes from town instead of scum. Are you trying to suggest that Vi is overplaying her hand in this regard? Because otherwise, I don't think I see what you're getting at.
Vi's #257 reads weirdly, like townie "****, no one's listening to me" mixed with scum bitterness. I don't know what to make of it.
Probably with his brain.
(Real answer: I've always found it fairly easy to determine the direction the game is going to sway beforehand, barring information reveals such as claims and Night action results. Do you not think Cyan is capable enough a player to determine such things, or are you basing your interpretation of his play on your own inability to do something similar?)
I'm pretty sure reading comprehension will take you far in this game.
As it stands, no, what piqued my interest in Vi is that she refused to explain when I questioned her about the lack of vote. The "that" in the post of mine you quoted is the lack of explanation, not the lack of vote, itself.
Or...y'know...see above.
Also, what? You're taking my wariness of you with a grain of salt after you've proven that your scum game in Redux 2 outplayed my town game in Redux 2? Pardon me for being dubious. Additionally, I dislike how this post plays out - it's a rather sneaky way of setting up a chain lynch, regardless of what Vi flips; Cyan can say, "Oh, Iso was busing" if Vi flips scum, and "Oh, Iso was responsible for the Vi wagon" if Vi flips town.
Disagree. DYH's push on Fate didn't do much, but I think his adamance against Thor was in his favor. Combined with Voxx's result, it allowed DYH the credibility long enough to push the last mislynch for game over.
I'm sad that you think my logic is crappy, though. After all, the artificial-seeming exchange between Cyan and DYH on Day 1 of last game is what made me question my read of them (mostly DYH) to begin with, but there was enough of a distraction in Thor that I didn't pursue my gut - another time I should've done so.
I also disagree with you in regards to things you've said about me to other players, but I'm not going to interrupt those lines of inquiry, so feel free to remind me later to provide an explanation on why I :no:'d to a couple of things you mentioned.
I've been V/LA for like 7 or 8 days total since this game has started. As I've stated before, postcount is not indicative of my alignment - merely my IRL time constraints.
I can give you hugs until we're friends.
I'm going to chalk this up to "I haven't been around to post enough to generate feelings of camaraderie from Kami".
Cool, we share a scum read.
Now fix the rest of yours and we'll be golden.
Good of you to join us. What do you make of my issue with Kami's interpretation of the emotional aspect of Vi's posts and the conclusion Kami reached as a result?
Scum question + strawman = scumVi.
This is OMGUS.
As for the behavior you're describing, it's fairly common Cyan meta to drive-by post like this when he's not bulldogging.
Actually, speaking of Cyan meta, I've just recalled that he has a propensity for NON-busing early on as scum, even if the wagon is obviously going to collect at least a few votes.
I think I need to re-read the game to remind myself of why I thought what I thought when I thought it and to reexamine the Vi/Cyan interactions, at least in regards to what a town flip from any of them means for the others.
Wouldn't the former be more a result of you being able to necessarily agree with Kami's posts, strictly from the standpoint that you knew Thor was scum? Because to my recollection, Kami didn't convincingly sway any townies in the last game towards Thor (as I thought Thor was scum of my own volition through my brain-shreddingly exasperating exchange with him, and I was pretty much the only other person who thought he was scum at that point to my recollection).
(Hint: It's only when it's directed towards you when you're scum)
Why?
I'm starting to come around to this, as well. I think I started drawing parallels to last game because I wanted to be right about him to get the chance for a vendetta lynch on scum early on, given that I was the target of his incredibly frustrating push in game 1's Day 1. This is probably further indication that I need to re-read this game when I get a moment to do so.
As Az would say, "This raises my hackles."
Based on?
Can't wait to see you try to flop your "opinion" on this come Day 2.
As a matter of fact, Unvote, Vote Cyan
Something's been bothering me about how this game has been progressing in my absence, but I can't put my finger on it. I'll probably try to shoot for a re-read on Friday (my actual birthday day :toot:).
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso - just so we're on the same page, you're still holding to Cyan+Vi turbobussing, correct?
Also, no, unless there's something special about that exchange that would cause me to remember it I don't offhand recall what you're talking about. To contrast, I drove the Cyouni wagon multiple times.
--
Plot twist.
Vote: llamarble (probably L-6)
Because while I acknowledge his early posts are usually bad that last one wins some kind of award for it.