I apprechiate those links, flub, read them over a bit.
My vote was serious.
What is it that you don't like regarding Flubbucket's torpedo?
Nothing about any torpedo, but avoiding random voting and just inserting light hearted jokes, is a way of posting without offending. It can be a sign of a self conscious scum not sure how a new site will respond.
Flub then banters a bit, gets comfortable, and goes ahead and tosses out a joke vote. Too self-aware.
Actually, anyone who's a turtle, claim that you are one now. You don't have to claim which one.
Interested in motive still. My initial hypothesis on this is Seppel being a scum turtle, throwing out there turtle status since it was readily on his mind, while hoping to get other town turtles to both claim themselves and also seem less suspicious.
Not married to that... but would want to hear the reasoning behind soliciting turtle claims.
Nothing about any torpedo, but avoiding random voting and just inserting light hearted jokes, is a way of posting without offending. It can be a sign of a self conscious scum not sure how a new site will respond.
Flub then banters a bit, gets comfortable, and goes ahead and tosses out a joke vote. Too self-aware.
That's exactly why I asked for some of his other games, so I could see if that's something that he does regardless of alignment, or just as scum, or just as town.
From what I gathered from skimming through those links that Flub provided, his behavior here isn't really indicative of alignment. I agree that his behaviour is scummy in general, but his meta makes me think it's null.
I agree with the not claiming bit..even if it is soft claim this early in the game.
Why would you even suggest flavor gaming when the mod said do it at your own risk? unvote
This post is very abnormal for Rodemy. When he is town (both times that I've seen), he lashes out a lot at practically everyone and is not nearly this contained. What REALLY stands out as different to his normal behaviour is his unvote without a vote on someone else. He doesn't even talk about a weak read on anyone.
And of course the "Why would you even" gives the question a negative spin, rather than just an inquisitive "Why did you". That just shows mindset.
I agree with the not claiming bit..even if it is soft claim this early in the game.
Why would you even suggest flavor gaming when the mod said do it at your own risk? unvote
This post is very abnormal for Rodemy. When he is town (both times that I've seen), he lashes out a lot at practically everyone and is not nearly this contained. What REALLY stands out as different to his normal behaviour is his unvote without a vote on someone else. He doesn't even talk about a weak read on anyone..
And look how well "lashing out" has done for me.
Ever thought i am learning from my mistakes?
Also: I suck at RVS as previously stated, i normally lash out.
You want weak reads? Fine:
I caught that Flub didn't vote his first post and found it odd that he didn't at least make a silly one.
Sepple's want for the turtles to soft claim makes me feel like he is fishing.
Karn using my poor town skills against me makes me cautious of him.
DCIII seems town right now same with Trix
Set seems like he might be scum if sepple flips scum.
And i can't quite get a read on Grr yet.
Usa giving into sepples soft claim gives me bad vibes.
And RR and DK haven't posted much
as for ghosting.. well he is null and void now, eh?
Happy?
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****. I had a big post, then at the same time I went to submit it my internet dropped out and Chrome lost it. Ugh.
Basically:
Rodemy overreacted in 59, but this is a much different overreaction than his other games.
I don't doubt that you're improving as a player, Rodemy, but this doesn't seem like an evolution of your other games. This feels like an entirely different playstyle.
I was not asking for a T/S list out of you at all. I don't expect anyone to have a full list around 60 posts into the game. The thing is, you didn't talk about a single read in 54, and the Rodemy I know would not have unvoted without voting someone else, especially when there are 4 people voting you.
And when you say "Look how lashing out turned out for me before." I look and see that you made it to endgame with everyone thinking you were town, and I also see that you were NKed with most people thinking you were town. That seems like it turned out pretty well to me.
Again, this is just not the same Rodemy that I've seen before (where he was town).
Seconded on the town points for Rodemy. Karn's used meta to defend Flub and to go after Rodemy - seems a little much, to me.
Why is metagaming "a little much"? I find metagaming to be among the more reliable things in Mafia (it isn't always, but more often than not. plus it's a good thing to get things going early).
@DCIII & LnGrrrR: What about that post specifically gives you a town read on Rodemy? I want both of you to answer this.
1) It was more a lack of scumvibes more so than any specific "must be town due to x sentence!" thing. Additionally, my first assumption upon reading your post was that Rodemy was grilled pretty hard about being so "bad" that he had to be noobtown; obviously that wont work forever. (He only got to late game and drew the NK because everyone had him down as noob town for the most part, somewhat the same reason I was NK'd by Wheat in the House game... Not due to analysis but for being a harder mislynch than others.)
2) If I had to pick one line, it would be his "Set might be scum if Seppel is scum." Sounds like someone trying to form early reads and get a grasp on current game state; I think scum would be a lot more careful throwing around links like that his early.
I actually really don't like 59. To me it reads "Oh crap... LOOK I'M FRUSTRATED I'M TOWN" I find not the post odd, but the fact that he posted it so shortly after Karn noted his lack of emotional responsiveness.
I agree with the not claiming bit..even if it is soft claim this early in the game.
Why would you even suggest flavor gaming when the mod said do it at your own risk? unvote
I'm also going to agree with not claiming.
I'm not sure what to make of it other than it is a way for Seppel to gauge reactions to said request. But even that seems heavy handed, along the lines of asking who is in the Foot clan.
It's not enough to warrant my vote, but it does make me a bit verklempt.
I actually really don't like 59. To me it reads "Oh crap... LOOK I'M FRUSTRATED I'M TOWN" I find not the post odd, but the fact that he posted it so shortly after Karn noted his lack of emotional responsiveness.
Overcompensating.
This is a note to myself to read some of Rodemy's games tomorrow. I need to assess his normal emotional reactions and how it compares to to this.
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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If you don't softclaim NOW, and you try to get away with claiming that you're a turtle later on in the game, I will unilaterally vote you until you're lynched.
Seconded on the town points for Rodemy. Karn's used meta to defend Flub and to go after Rodemy - seems a little much, to me.
Why is metagaming "a little much"? I find metagaming to be among the more reliable things in Mafia (it isn't always, but more often than not. plus it's a good thing to get things going early).
@DCIII & LnGrrrR: What about that post specifically gives you a town read on Rodemy? I want both of you to answer this.
To answer your second point, because many of his observations are consistent with how I've seen the early game. It also does read like a form of lashing out to me - he commented on the silly banter, he protested that he had four votes early in RVS and then, when questioned, he gave early observations on every single player in response (which does read like "I'm Town" to a later point that Gifts made) but, if both you and he acknowledge that he's been transparent in the role in the past, then that doesn't set off any alarms to me. Emotion in a post is something that I would think could be changed but the pattern is still consistent with responding boldly when NVS isn't shaping up in his favor.
To address your first point, there's nothing wrong with metagaming in general but Flub was the most non-transparently suspicious at the beginning (as Gifts called out later) and both you and Gifts read up on his previous games. Gifts came out of that claiming that his vote on Flub was not random, you came out feeling very confident that his meta was unpredictable.
So that's two strong claims of meta both of which seem to contradict the more plausible explanation, in my opinion.
Not married to that... but would want to hear the reasoning behind soliciting turtle claims.
Why are we waffling so early?
I would hope that most of us would be most uncertain about what's going on in the early stages of the game.
Seppel's softclaim doesn't make a lot of sense to me in a game where flavor gaming doesn't apply. It was certainly the first transparent play to draw focus and attention, so I'm not sure of his motives behind that. I've offered my hypothesis but I'd like to hear his rationale. Instead he's recently continued to take the hard line on soliciting other claims and refused to answer the several questions he's received on motive.
Not married to that... but would want to hear the reasoning behind soliciting turtle claims.
Why are we waffling so early?
I would hope that most of us would be most uncertain about what's going on in the early stages of the game.
Seppel's softclaim doesn't make a lot of sense to me in a game where flavor gaming doesn't apply. It was certainly the first transparent play to draw focus and attention, so I'm not sure of his motives behind that. I've offered my hypothesis but I'd like to hear his rationale. Instead he's recently continued to take the hard line on soliciting other claims and refused to answer the several questions he's received on motive.
It's one thing to be unsure motives and alignments, but it's not hard to know where you stand in regards to plans of action. In your answer, you give some good reasons to not believe, but I refer you back to the statement I quoted. You said you weren't "married to this idea". Was it just hope that he had an explanation that caused to to be unsure?
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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Not married to that... but would want to hear the reasoning behind soliciting turtle claims.
Why are we waffling so early?
I would hope that most of us would be most uncertain about what's going on in the early stages of the game.
Seppel's softclaim doesn't make a lot of sense to me in a game where flavor gaming doesn't apply. It was certainly the first transparent play to draw focus and attention, so I'm not sure of his motives behind that. I've offered my hypothesis but I'd like to hear his rationale. Instead he's recently continued to take the hard line on soliciting other claims and refused to answer the several questions he's received on motive.
It's one thing to be unsure motives and alignments, but it's not hard to know where you stand in regards to plans of action. In your answer, you give some good reasons to not believe, but I refer you back to the statement I quoted. You said you weren't "married to this idea". Was it just hope that he had an explanation that caused to to be unsure?
Correct, I was open to his explanation. We haven't gotten one yet.
Sorry for being AWOL yesterday folks. Stream-of-consciousness/type-as-I-reread incoming.
I'm trying to wrap my mind around the softclaim idea, and I just can't find any benefit for town in the Turtles outing themselves. I also don't like Seppel's refusal to explain his motivation or what he hopes to accomplish with it. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I can't get a handle on what that could be without some form of explanation.
Nothing about any torpedo, but avoiding random voting and just inserting light hearted jokes, is a way of posting without offending. It can be a sign of a self conscious scum not sure how a new site will respond.
Flub then banters a bit, gets comfortable, and goes ahead and tosses out a joke vote. Too self-aware.
I like your thought process here. The joking in and of itself doesn't bother me considering we were squarely in RVS, but the lack of a vote could be a way of trying to avoid setting off anyone's scumdar.
I agree with the not claiming bit..even if it is soft claim this early in the game.
Why would you even suggest flavor gaming when the mod said do it at your own risk? unvote
This post is very abnormal for Rodemy. When he is town (both times that I've seen), he lashes out a lot at practically everyone and is not nearly this contained. What REALLY stands out as different to his normal behaviour is his unvote without a vote on someone else. He doesn't even talk about a weak read on anyone.
Could be that Rodemy is trying to rein in some of his behavior. It is my understanding that he caught a lot of peoples' ire in a recent game, and his comments to Seppel in the sign-up thread indicate a mindset of wanting to make amends.
Ehhhhh... and now I read #59. Something about the first few sentences reads incredibly fake to me. Rodemy is understandably self-conscious about his behavior, but providing a full T/S list in response to Karn is over the top. Not liking LnG's and DCIII's immediate jumps to give town cred for the post either. /barn Karn's #63.
I do like flub's post #70 and agree with all of it.
Waiting to hear if Seppel is going to offer up any more explanation.
Also, I find it hilarious that Seppel is going to be the "claim enforcer", given that he has lied about his claim in some fashion in nearly every game I have read of his, both scum and town. (Hobbit, BSG, and others)
Why did you find Rodemy providing a list scummy? Karn specifically noted that Rodemy didn't say anything about his reads, so Rodemy provided them. (Karn didn ask for a T/S list specifically, but I think that's splitting hairs.)
Also, I find it hilarious that Seppel is going to be the "claim enforcer", given that he has lied about his claim in some fashion in nearly every game I have read of his, both scum and town. (Hobbit, BSG, and others)
Why did you find Rodemy providing a list scummy? Karn specifically noted that Rodemy didn't say anything about his reads, so Rodemy provided them. (Karn didn ask for a T/S list specifically, but I think that's splitting hairs.)
No sir.
Providing a T/S list this early in the light of Karn's question comes off as overcompensating, as I believe he already said. I don't think anyone would have expected... well, anyone... to have a full list ready to go at this point.
@Dking, which is why it reads as towny to me. I think Rodemy read that as Karn wanting a T/S list (he noted Rodemy didn't list any weak reads), and being frustrated at having to throw out a "list" when he didnt have any/many strong reads.
To me, the tone sounded off... the first couple sentences came out forced and look like "hey, you asked for it and now I'm lashing out!"
I'm willing to put him on the "wait and see" list for right now because I do understand that he has a reason to be somewhat self-conscious. I mentioned before that his exchange with Seppel in the signup thread showed that he is looking to maybe subdue his intensity.
I don't see how anyone can have a proper suspect list at this point in the game.
I tend to view everyone as scum until almost irrefutable townie evidence rears its head. However I'm not a silly dogmatic person. I read each post twice. Once with the assumption poster is scum, once again assuming poster is town. I tend more toward logical than meta or behavior because it has failed me less often. I say less often because I do fail. Ask the wife.
As for Seppel, I have no issue with someone trying to make things happen. I will accept,for now, his actions as such. I don't like being threatened and I will take action if I'm threatened.
However, I accept turtles for who they are and I repeat I do like them.
@karn, i don't see why you are pushing this. In my only two games i was in (that you were in as well) my rvs behavior got me really close to being lynched. So why would i want a repeat of that? You are wrong by not giving me the benifit of the doubt and letting me learn from my mistakes. Just because i didn't overract like a noob does not make me scum or town.
As for my list, you mentioned that i had no soft reads, so i gave you my soft reads and suddenly i am scummy for posting them? Sounds like i was baited.
Another thing that you can take however you want is this: I am on meds now. Anxiety meds and ADHD meds. They slow me down and calm me down so i am pretty mellow.
If you don't softclaim NOW, and you try to get away with claiming that you're a turtle later on in the game, I will unilaterally vote you until you're lynched.
So why are you only wanting the turtles? I know for a fact there are townies that aren't just turtles. Seems off.
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However, I accept turtles for who they are and I repeat I do like them.
This seems like such a red herring to me.
Between this and Seppel soliciting turtles... are we in some kind of alternate reality where the turtles are all scum? There seems to be some kind of insider knowledge about being a turtle and what it would entail.
The softclaim and the responses around it seem off.
If you don't softclaim NOW, and you try to get away with claiming that you're a turtle later on in the game, I will unilaterally vote you until you're lynched.
Scum can softclaim a turtle so in the future if a townie who is ACTUALLY a turtle claims, they are scum in his eyes.
Sounds like a bad plan.
Threatening people to claim, even if it is soft, seems scummy to me.
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I'm also skeptical of the softclaim idea. I don't see how anyone but scum gains anything from the information of the Turtles' identities. Again, if I'm missing some obvious town benefit then someone is welcome to point it out to me.
I think it's pretty unlikely any of the Turtles are scum, though... that is what I meant when I said I think EtR's comments are making people paranoid. I took it more as "don't take a hard line that [insert character here] has to be in the game and they are obviously town/scum".
I was in the BSG mafia.. and there were some characters in the show that were claimed... welll turns out some of them where scum and NOT a cylon in the show... or a bad guy.
Sepple was in that game as well.....
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Alright back. New York is terrible this time of year. Way too hot for my tastes. All that heat radiating off the buildings and streets and the humidity doesn't make it much nicer. Sadly I did not see even ONE mutant reptile of the age of delinquency.
However, I accept turtles for who they are and I repeat I do like them.
It is just such a shame we don't have more turtles represented in todays media right? I think someone has it out for turtles everywhere.
Quote from dkingsland967 »
I'm also skeptical of the softclaim idea. I don't see how anyone but scum gains anything from the information of the Turtles' identities. Again, if I'm missing some obvious town benefit then someone is welcome to point it out to me.
I think it's pretty unlikely any of the Turtles are scum, though...
This rang some bells for me.
Quote from Seppel »
Last call for turtle softclaims.
If you don't softclaim NOW, and you try to get away with claiming that you're a turtle later on in the game, I will unilaterally vote you until you're lynched.
This did more however. Reading more. Shouldn't be too hard of a catch up. Also RVS is over so unvote
As for Seppel, I have no issue with someone trying to make things happen. I will accept,for now, his actions as such. I don't like being threatened and I will take action if I'm threatened.
However, I accept turtles for who they are and I repeat I do like them.
"Hey look! I'm breadcrumbing turtle!" except, I'm not :wink::wink:
I'm also skeptical of the softclaim idea. I don't see how anyone but scum gains anything from the information of the Turtles' identities. Again, if I'm missing some obvious town benefit then someone is welcome to point it out to me.
I think it's pretty unlikely any of the Turtles are scum, though...
This rang some bells for me.
What about it rings bells for you?
The Turtles are the heroes of the show. In a vaccuum, it would only make sense for them to be Town. I think folks are getting overly paranoid over a comment EtR made that essentially said "I've made it so you guys can't reliably flavor-game your way to victory", which from what I've gathered is more or less par for the course around here. In the WWE game that just recently completed, Shawn Michaels was Mafia while Kevin Nash and Big Show were Town. Just based on flavor gaming, I would have thought all three were the opposite.
Not married to that... but would want to hear the reasoning behind soliciting turtle claims.
Why are we waffling so early?
I would hope that most of us would be most uncertain about what's going on in the early stages of the game.
Seppel's softclaim doesn't make a lot of sense to me in a game where flavor gaming doesn't apply. It was certainly the first transparent play to draw focus and attention, so I'm not sure of his motives behind that. I've offered my hypothesis but I'd like to hear his rationale. Instead he's recently continued to take the hard line on soliciting other claims and refused to answer the several questions he's received on motive.
Are you unaware that I've made my reasoning clear? To reiterate: Anyone who tries to claim a turtle after the softclaim is scum.
Also, I find it hilarious that Seppel is going to be the "claim enforcer", given that he has lied about his claim in some fashion in nearly every game I have read of his, both scum and town. (Hobbit, BSG, and others)
What dose that tell you about my role in this game? Don't answer that publicly. Just think about it.
Sorry for being AWOL yesterday folks. Stream-of-consciousness/type-as-I-reread incoming.
I'm trying to wrap my mind around the softclaim idea, and I just can't find any benefit for town in the Turtles outing themselves. I also don't like Seppel's refusal to explain his motivation or what he hopes to accomplish with it. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I can't get a handle on what that could be without some form of explanation.
Nothing about any torpedo, but avoiding random voting and just inserting light hearted jokes, is a way of posting without offending. It can be a sign of a self conscious scum not sure how a new site will respond.
Flub then banters a bit, gets comfortable, and goes ahead and tosses out a joke vote. Too self-aware.
I like your thought process here. The joking in and of itself doesn't bother me considering we were squarely in RVS, but the lack of a vote could be a way of trying to avoid setting off anyone's scumdar.
I agree with the not claiming bit..even if it is soft claim this early in the game.
Why would you even suggest flavor gaming when the mod said do it at your own risk? unvote
This post is very abnormal for Rodemy. When he is town (both times that I've seen), he lashes out a lot at practically everyone and is not nearly this contained. What REALLY stands out as different to his normal behaviour is his unvote without a vote on someone else. He doesn't even talk about a weak read on anyone.
Could be that Rodemy is trying to rein in some of his behavior. It is my understanding that he caught a lot of peoples' ire in a recent game, and his comments to Seppel in the sign-up thread indicate a mindset of wanting to make amends.
Ehhhhh... and now I read #59. Something about the first few sentences reads incredibly fake to me. Rodemy is understandably self-conscious about his behavior, but providing a full T/S list in response to Karn is over the top. Not liking LnG's and DCIII's immediate jumps to give town cred for the post either. /barn Karn's #63.
I do like flub's post #70 and agree with all of it.
Waiting to hear if Seppel is going to offer up any more explanation.
Why do those posts merit revisiting on a scum flip?
Why so waffly about nearlly EVERYTHING?
Why reference post numbers without content attached to them?
To me, the tone sounded off... the first couple sentences came out forced and look like "hey, you asked for it and now I'm lashing out!"
I'm willing to put him on the "wait and see" list for right now because I do understand that he has a reason to be somewhat self-conscious. I mentioned before that his exchange with Seppel in the signup thread showed that he is looking to maybe subdue his intensity.
However, I accept turtles for who they are and I repeat I do like them.
This seems like such a red herring to me.
Between this and Seppel soliciting turtles... are we in some kind of alternate reality where the turtles are all scum? There seems to be some kind of insider knowledge about being a turtle and what it would entail.
The softclaim and the responses around it seem off.
I'm also skeptical of the softclaim idea. I don't see how anyone but scum gains anything from the information of the Turtles' identities. Again, if I'm missing some obvious town benefit then someone is welcome to point it out to me.
I'm also skeptical of the softclaim idea. I don't see how anyone but scum gains anything from the information of the Turtles' identities. Again, if I'm missing some obvious town benefit then someone is welcome to point it out to me.
EBWODP: Actually, now that I think about it that example from the WWE game doesn't at all indicate that one or more Turtles couldn't be scum... but it still wouldn't make any sense.
Nothing about any torpedo, but avoiding random voting and just inserting light hearted jokes, is a way of posting without offending. It can be a sign of a self conscious scum not sure how a new site will respond.
Flub then banters a bit, gets comfortable, and goes ahead and tosses out a joke vote. Too self-aware.
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Interested in motive still. My initial hypothesis on this is Seppel being a scum turtle, throwing out there turtle status since it was readily on his mind, while hoping to get other town turtles to both claim themselves and also seem less suspicious.
Not married to that... but would want to hear the reasoning behind soliciting turtle claims.
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That's exactly why I asked for some of his other games, so I could see if that's something that he does regardless of alignment, or just as scum, or just as town.
From what I gathered from skimming through those links that Flub provided, his behavior here isn't really indicative of alignment. I agree that his behaviour is scummy in general, but his meta makes me think it's null.
This post is very abnormal for Rodemy. When he is town (both times that I've seen), he lashes out a lot at practically everyone and is not nearly this contained. What REALLY stands out as different to his normal behaviour is his unvote without a vote on someone else. He doesn't even talk about a weak read on anyone.
And of course the "Why would you even" gives the question a negative spin, rather than just an inquisitive "Why did you". That just shows mindset.
My vote on Rodemy is not RVS.
I like Turtles.
And look how well "lashing out" has done for me.
Ever thought i am learning from my mistakes?
Also: I suck at RVS as previously stated, i normally lash out.
You want weak reads? Fine:
I caught that Flub didn't vote his first post and found it odd that he didn't at least make a silly one.
Sepple's want for the turtles to soft claim makes me feel like he is fishing.
Karn using my poor town skills against me makes me cautious of him.
DCIII seems town right now same with Trix
Set seems like he might be scum if sepple flips scum.
And i can't quite get a read on Grr yet.
Usa giving into sepples soft claim gives me bad vibes.
And RR and DK haven't posted much
as for ghosting.. well he is null and void now, eh?
Happy?
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Basically:
Rodemy overreacted in 59, but this is a much different overreaction than his other games.
I don't doubt that you're improving as a player, Rodemy, but this doesn't seem like an evolution of your other games. This feels like an entirely different playstyle.
I was not asking for a T/S list out of you at all. I don't expect anyone to have a full list around 60 posts into the game. The thing is, you didn't talk about a single read in 54, and the Rodemy I know would not have unvoted without voting someone else, especially when there are 4 people voting you.
And when you say "Look how lashing out turned out for me before." I look and see that you made it to endgame with everyone thinking you were town, and I also see that you were NKed with most people thinking you were town. That seems like it turned out pretty well to me.
Again, this is just not the same Rodemy that I've seen before (where he was town).
Why is metagaming "a little much"? I find metagaming to be among the more reliable things in Mafia (it isn't always, but more often than not. plus it's a good thing to get things going early).
@DCIII & LnGrrrR: What about that post specifically gives you a town read on Rodemy? I want both of you to answer this.
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1) It was more a lack of scumvibes more so than any specific "must be town due to x sentence!" thing. Additionally, my first assumption upon reading your post was that Rodemy was grilled pretty hard about being so "bad" that he had to be noobtown; obviously that wont work forever. (He only got to late game and drew the NK because everyone had him down as noob town for the most part, somewhat the same reason I was NK'd by Wheat in the House game... Not due to analysis but for being a harder mislynch than others.)
2) If I had to pick one line, it would be his "Set might be scum if Seppel is scum." Sounds like someone trying to form early reads and get a grasp on current game state; I think scum would be a lot more careful throwing around links like that his early.
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Overcompensating.
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What does this post mean?
Aren't there only four?? What difference would it make not naming names?
I'm also going to agree with not claiming.
I'm not sure what to make of it other than it is a way for Seppel to gauge reactions to said request. But even that seems heavy handed, along the lines of asking who is in the Foot clan.
It's not enough to warrant my vote, but it does make me a bit verklempt.
Thanks again TK.
Screw it if I did, I'm starting it again. THIS IS RVS 2!
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I'm supposed to be working.
What a coincidence, so am I! I work night audit at a hotel, so this is when I'll be active.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Okay no more spam or we'll be married.
Why are we waffling so early? This post is in my view.
On that note, it's hard for me to get behind a soft claim. Claiming of any kind has NEVER gone well in the Modfias I've played or hosted.
This is a note to myself to read some of Rodemy's games tomorrow. I need to assess his normal emotional reactions and how it compares to to this.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
If you don't softclaim NOW, and you try to get away with claiming that you're a turtle later on in the game, I will unilaterally vote you until you're lynched.
I wanted to be a turtle.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
To answer your second point, because many of his observations are consistent with how I've seen the early game. It also does read like a form of lashing out to me - he commented on the silly banter, he protested that he had four votes early in RVS and then, when questioned, he gave early observations on every single player in response (which does read like "I'm Town" to a later point that Gifts made) but, if both you and he acknowledge that he's been transparent in the role in the past, then that doesn't set off any alarms to me. Emotion in a post is something that I would think could be changed but the pattern is still consistent with responding boldly when NVS isn't shaping up in his favor.
To address your first point, there's nothing wrong with metagaming in general but Flub was the most non-transparently suspicious at the beginning (as Gifts called out later) and both you and Gifts read up on his previous games. Gifts came out of that claiming that his vote on Flub was not random, you came out feeling very confident that his meta was unpredictable.
So that's two strong claims of meta both of which seem to contradict the more plausible explanation, in my opinion.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
I would hope that most of us would be most uncertain about what's going on in the early stages of the game.
Seppel's softclaim doesn't make a lot of sense to me in a game where flavor gaming doesn't apply. It was certainly the first transparent play to draw focus and attention, so I'm not sure of his motives behind that. I've offered my hypothesis but I'd like to hear his rationale. Instead he's recently continued to take the hard line on soliciting other claims and refused to answer the several questions he's received on motive.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
It's one thing to be unsure motives and alignments, but it's not hard to know where you stand in regards to plans of action. In your answer, you give some good reasons to not believe, but I refer you back to the statement I quoted. You said you weren't "married to this idea". Was it just hope that he had an explanation that caused to to be unsure?
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Correct, I was open to his explanation. We haven't gotten one yet.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Sorry for being AWOL yesterday folks. Stream-of-consciousness/type-as-I-reread incoming.
I'm trying to wrap my mind around the softclaim idea, and I just can't find any benefit for town in the Turtles outing themselves. I also don't like Seppel's refusal to explain his motivation or what he hopes to accomplish with it. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I can't get a handle on what that could be without some form of explanation.
Hm.
Are you scum?
Need to revisit this if one of these two flips scum later.
I like your thought process here. The joking in and of itself doesn't bother me considering we were squarely in RVS, but the lack of a vote could be a way of trying to avoid setting off anyone's scumdar.
Could be that Rodemy is trying to rein in some of his behavior. It is my understanding that he caught a lot of peoples' ire in a recent game, and his comments to Seppel in the sign-up thread indicate a mindset of wanting to make amends.
Ehhhhh... and now I read #59. Something about the first few sentences reads incredibly fake to me. Rodemy is understandably self-conscious about his behavior, but providing a full T/S list in response to Karn is over the top. Not liking LnG's and DCIII's immediate jumps to give town cred for the post either. /barn Karn's #63.
I do like flub's post #70 and agree with all of it.
Waiting to hear if Seppel is going to offer up any more explanation.
Nope. How about you?
Also, I find it hilarious that Seppel is going to be the "claim enforcer", given that he has lied about his claim in some fashion in nearly every game I have read of his, both scum and town. (Hobbit, BSG, and others)
Why did you find Rodemy providing a list scummy? Karn specifically noted that Rodemy didn't say anything about his reads, so Rodemy provided them. (Karn didn ask for a T/S list specifically, but I think that's splitting hairs.)
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
No sir.
Providing a T/S list this early in the light of Karn's question comes off as overcompensating, as I believe he already said. I don't think anyone would have expected... well, anyone... to have a full list ready to go at this point.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'm willing to put him on the "wait and see" list for right now because I do understand that he has a reason to be somewhat self-conscious. I mentioned before that his exchange with Seppel in the signup thread showed that he is looking to maybe subdue his intensity.
I tend to view everyone as scum until almost irrefutable townie evidence rears its head. However I'm not a silly dogmatic person. I read each post twice. Once with the assumption poster is scum, once again assuming poster is town. I tend more toward logical than meta or behavior because it has failed me less often. I say less often because I do fail. Ask the wife.
As for Seppel, I have no issue with someone trying to make things happen. I will accept,for now, his actions as such. I don't like being threatened and I will take action if I'm threatened.
However, I accept turtles for who they are and I repeat I do like them.
As for my list, you mentioned that i had no soft reads, so i gave you my soft reads and suddenly i am scummy for posting them? Sounds like i was baited.
Another thing that you can take however you want is this: I am on meds now. Anxiety meds and ADHD meds. They slow me down and calm me down so i am pretty mellow.
So why are you only wanting the turtles? I know for a fact there are townies that aren't just turtles. Seems off.
This seems like such a red herring to me.
Between this and Seppel soliciting turtles... are we in some kind of alternate reality where the turtles are all scum? There seems to be some kind of insider knowledge about being a turtle and what it would entail.
The softclaim and the responses around it seem off.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
The only problem i have with sepples turtle softclaim is this
Scum can softclaim a turtle so in the future if a townie who is ACTUALLY a turtle claims, they are scum in his eyes.
Sounds like a bad plan.
Threatening people to claim, even if it is soft, seems scummy to me.
I think it's pretty unlikely any of the Turtles are scum, though... that is what I meant when I said I think EtR's comments are making people paranoid. I took it more as "don't take a hard line that [insert character here] has to be in the game and they are obviously town/scum".
Sepple was in that game as well.....
It is just such a shame we don't have more turtles represented in todays media right? I think someone has it out for turtles everywhere.
This rang some bells for me.
This did more however. Reading more. Shouldn't be too hard of a catch up. Also RVS is over so unvote
It's Hip to be a Square
Wow , I know way too much about a cartoon from 30 years ago.
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
"Hey look! I'm breadcrumbing turtle!" except, I'm not :wink::wink:
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
What about it rings bells for you?
The Turtles are the heroes of the show. In a vaccuum, it would only make sense for them to be Town. I think folks are getting overly paranoid over a comment EtR made that essentially said "I've made it so you guys can't reliably flavor-game your way to victory", which from what I've gathered is more or less par for the course around here. In the WWE game that just recently completed, Shawn Michaels was Mafia while Kevin Nash and Big Show were Town. Just based on flavor gaming, I would have thought all three were the opposite.
Are you unaware that I've made my reasoning clear? To reiterate: Anyone who tries to claim a turtle after the softclaim is scum.
What dose that tell you about my role in this game? Don't answer that publicly. Just think about it.
Why do those posts merit revisiting on a scum flip?
Why so waffly about nearlly EVERYTHING?
Why reference post numbers without content attached to them?
Look at that fence. It's full of DK.
I like you.
Catch the mafia off guard with an attempted potential elimination of falseclaims. Also I like you.
I think you're incorrect.
It doesn't work that way.
If p then q does not imply if q then p
You're going to have to deal with it.
(looks like you've got confrontational Seppel this game)
See above.
Followup question: How does it benefit the scum?
HEY THERE'S SOME CHEESE LEFT ON THIS SHREDDER SHREDDER SHREDDER