@dking: I explained why I asked Tanarin that question.
@pinky: I didn't know Generic made a case against me. Where?
Generics 61 - I don't think Generic says anything in this post.
"Wheat has been asking questions, but has not responded back to anyone but Swishh." - What about that post that you quoted in your very same post where Wheat is responding to other people?
Sir Karn (5) - hansanator, Cythare, Generic, swishh, dkingsland967
There be scum on this here wagon.
@Swishh: So... basically you are not gonna back up what you claim when asked for proof, huh? Not only that, you claim you can not say no more at this point. I still think there is plenty to talk about here, like my second question to you in my last post.
Why do you think there is scum on the Sir Karn wagon? What did you read of Sir Karn before this that reads town?
Two fold reasoning here:
1. Karn had a semi legit argument against him and his wagon was moving pretty fast. If scum were NOT on the wagon, it is not unreasonable for them to attempt a quickhammer if they were paying attention to the vote count and easily claim they were not paying attention. Said quickhammer did not happen.
2. The speed of the wagon feels REAL off to me. I don't see an all town wagon forming this early. Scum HAS to be on that wagon somewhere.
As far as Sir Karn is concerned, I am not so much reading him as town, nor do I think his wagon on him MAKES him town. I should re-read Karn of late as I have been focused on swishh, but other than what you pointed out in your post, my read of Karn has been neutral.
@sir karn: I meant post 60. What did you think of what generic said
He explained his RVS "reads" on Wheat, Guard, and Karn. (Which I didn't have a problem with in the first place.)
Then he said why he wasn't feeling the Cythare wagon. (Which read reasonably.)
Then he said the only thing in the post which stuck out to me. ("Swishh will inevitably be scum.") It's not even a necessarily scummy thing to say, and it doesn't read as particularly serious either. It just stuck out to me for some reason.
Is there anything I'm missing that he said? Why are you asking me about this post in particular? It doesn't seem very important to me at all.
Sir Karn (5) - hansanator, Cythare, Generic, swishh, dkingsland967
There be scum on this here wagon.
@Swishh: So... basically you are not gonna back up what you claim when asked for proof, huh? Not only that, you claim you can not say no more at this point. I still think there is plenty to talk about here, like my second question to you in my last post.
Why do you think there is scum on the Sir Karn wagon? What did you read of Sir Karn before this that reads town?
Two fold reasoning here:
1. Karn had a semi legit argument against him and his wagon was moving pretty fast. If scum were NOT on the wagon, it is not unreasonable for them to attempt a quickhammer if they were paying attention to the vote count and easily claim they were not paying attention. Said quickhammer did not happen.
2. The speed of the wagon feels REAL off to me. I don't see an all town wagon forming this early. Scum HAS to be on that wagon somewhere.
As far as Sir Karn is concerned, I am not so much reading him as town, nor do I think his wagon on him MAKES him town. I should re-read Karn of late as I have been focused on swishh, but other than what you pointed out in your post, my read of Karn has been neutral.
1 is this from experience or expectation?
I only have seen a quick lynch at the start of day 1 with scum hammering once. More often it does not happen.
2. Mmmmmm. I saw a quick lynch flip scum and town. Why other than experience does it feel off.
What is your thought on the swish wagon?
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
@sir karn: I meant post 60. What did you think of what generic said
He explained his RVS "reads" on Wheat, Guard, and Karn. (Which I didn't have a problem with in the first place.)
Then he said why he wasn't feeling the Cythare wagon. (Which read reasonably.)
Then he said the only thing in the post which stuck out to me. ("Swishh will inevitably be scum.") It's not even a necessarily scummy thing to say, and it doesn't read as particularly serious either. It just stuck out to me for some reason.
Is there anything I'm missing that he said? Why are you asking me about this post in particular? It doesn't seem very important to me at all.
Generic voted for you. You did not interact with him.
Then in post 60 all he say about you was this:
Then I spotted my nemesis was in this, sir karn. He is scum guys, he was seen at the corlioni household (any clearer on whether my comments are serious?
Again you say nothing to or about this. The only thing I have seen you do was omgus over react to cythare and follow others views.
My question is why? Why did you ignore generic a d why are u following others?
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
Generic voted me in RVS and it was obviously being silly. Why would I react to it?
I didn't ask Generic to explain his RVS stuff; Wheat did.
Again you say nothing to or about this.
The only thing I have seen you do was omgus over react to cythare and follow others views. My question is why? Why did you ignore generic a d why are u following others?
First, I say nothing about it because he's obviously being silly and there is nothing to say about it.
I don't believe that I overreacted to Cythare. His push was awful and doesn't look townie at all, in my opinion.
I have done much more than just "follow other's views." You're making me think that you aren't even reading my posts, pinky. I've made points against both Cythare and Swishh. The fact that I haven't made EVERY point shouldn't be a problem.
Lastly, why are you attacking /me/ for not contributing enough (which is false), while there are others who are on a wagon with far less basis (off the top of my head: dking and Cythare).
Don't like this at all wheat, that's painting someone into a corner because they are perfectly justified in worrying about their own lynch. Your karn point is very valid, but if he has concerns about being fast lynched on page 4 why shouldn't he be panicked? TOwn or mafia, that's a null point because we should all want to have a chance to defend ourselves and try and live on.
He only had three votes on himself, less than half what it would take to lynch him. Being worried from just that is definitely being overly worried in my book.
What did you think of Sir Karn's and Generic's response to your questions?
I'm not sure if this question is addressed to me or Karn. If it is addressed to me, let me know and I'll answer it.
Did I miss the response?
Also since you were in the Disney game with swisshhh how would you compare his play here to there?
He definitely responded to me so you must have. Unless you mean my response, in which case I haven't made it yet; I was too focused on swishh last night. I need to go back to that post so I'll probably do so immediately following this post.
Honestly, I've purged most of 73 from my mind because as I recall I was lynched for being too town and it left a sour taste in my mouth.
I seem to get the feeling that swishh is flailing more than I've seen in other games, though. Not just 73, but his town games too.
Before swissh's answer, what made you think Swisshh was scum?
swishh thought Cythare was scum, but then very quickly switched to Sir Karn. I distrusted the motives of people thinking Sir Karn was scum, and also distrusted the motives of people thinking Cythare was scum. swishh was in both categories.
I was trying to figure out what people were thinking with my post 58 since there was a lot of misinformation going around it seemed, so I wasn't yet sure enough for a vote, but I was expecting swishh to turn up as the most likely scum in the mix due to the quick flip between them.
So far I read WG and Sir Karn as scum.
WG is asking questions so far but has not responded back to anyone other then swish. Last time Swissh in Disney game was more town and under the radar. This is more vomit at the mouth and bad comments. I expect WG to know this just as well as me. Also when I see people ask questions and don't really do a back and forth it looks more like busy work then scum hunting and so far the only opinion I have from WG is that swisssh is scum for vomit of the mouth.
Sir Karn asked his question to Tan seemed strange to me, I feel when Cythare attached him, he over reacted to the attack. When he explain why he did the Fry pic, I gave him a good point, but all attacks he has laughed at or not responded to (no response to Generic's case). I found the lack of comment from Sir Karn to Generic highly questionable. He then jumps on the Swissssh wagon for weak reasoning, all while still suspicious of Cythare for weak reasoning.
vote: Sir karn
Oh Generic, what are we going to do with you? You are welcome to point out my "idiocy" at any time, but I think we're all aware of how big of a crybaby you become when someone posts anything even remotely abrasive in your direction.
And for that matter, yes, your "he told me in the QT" reads fake town to me.
@Wheat: My Mafia Stats are in my sig. (Labeled Mafia Stats :))
I've been scum twice, but both times I replaced in (one very late Day 1 (with me hammering upon entrance), and one very late Day 2 (with someone else dropping a hammer minutes before I posted)). So no, there's no Day 1 scumKarn for you to compare to (that's what I'm assuming you're looking for).
OK so I'm finally getting back to the responses I was looking for from my post 58. That post and a few preceding was all about trying to figure out what people were actually thinking during the stinkfest with Sir Karn and Cythare.
Timeline:
41: Karn posts an ambiguous post in response to Tanarin saying "Why not?" in response to being asked why he was singling out Pinky. The ambiguity makes me wonder what his motivation is.
42-43: Cythare calls him out and votes him for blowing RVS out of proportion. The post made me wonder if Cythare is scum because I've always been a follower of the MandersHex interpretation of RVS, in that you can sometimes determine alignment that way.
44-45: They go another back and forth.
46: swishh jumps in, calling Karn bad but not scummy and Cythare scummy but not bad.
47-50: Cythare and Karn go another two rounds.
51: I see multiple motivations, so I try to determine mindsets. I start at the source; why did Karn respond the way he did in 41?
54: Karn responds, and clarifies to an extent his thought process. I accept it.
55: swishh flips over to Karn for no stated reason.
58: Since the source was clarified a little better, I went on to ask all the other players in there (plus Generic who I haven't mentioned in this timeline because his vote was more RVS) what their thought processes were.
And then...swishh never responds and Cythare has not posted again yet.
Well that was a pretty sad end. I even forgot what I wanted to ask Karn in his 54.
I want to see more posts from Cythare but I get the feeling swishh was definitely going for a mislynch with that switch.
@swishh: I apologize if this was already asked, but why did you switch from Cythare to Karn?
@Wheat: My Mafia Stats are in my sig. (Labeled Mafia Stats :))
I've been scum twice, but both times I replaced in (one very late Day 1 (with me hammering upon entrance), and one very late Day 2 (with someone else dropping a hammer minutes before I posted)). So no, there's no Day 1 scumKarn for you to compare to (that's what I'm assuming you're looking for).
Were you seen as scum in those games? That's more what I was after.
@W_G: You were in my only scum game - Disney Villains
Yeah but that's not what I asked. I asked what your scum meta is. How would YOU describe your scum meta?
It was essentially rhetorical because from what little I recall that is exactly the same as your town meta with you playing horribly, given that you were a lynch candidate IIRC.
"Scummy as hell" is my new favorite scum tell. Why not just say "scummy?" Or "really scummy?"
If by some stroke of misfortune Sir Karn is town, then I believe Cythare is scum. I do not think they both are. Cythare's attack was either predatory or perceptive, and scum wouldn't go after a scum buddy like that.
Ohhhh I didn't see the bolded black part. But I think the answer to it is a lot simpler than you expect. Why WOULD scum attack a scum buddy on such a basis? There's no reason this early in the Day to start a bus, unless it's just an attempt to create a false sense of separation between the two players, but I doubt either of them are putting that much thought into it. So I saw Cythare attacking Sir Karn for something that seemed inconsequential = predator mode. Sir Karn's response was bad, though, pretty much just an OMGUS, but after Sir Karn's follow-up with the "scummy as hell" line, I figured maybe Cythare was onto something and decided to switch my vote over.
At any rate, I think I need to take a step back for a bit. I tend to do this when I'm town: get reckless and draw a lot of attention to myself relying on the comfort of knowing 1) that I am town and 2) that scum know I'm town and pushing on me would result in a mislynch.
As for my scum meta, I guess in Disney Villains I was aware that I would have to convince everyone that I was town, so my play was more cautious than usual.
Why are there still this many votes on Karn? I don't understand.
Hansanator's was RVS and hasn't posted since iirc.
As for "were you viewed as scummy in those games?"
- In Lucian, I was uberScum, but it was on purpose since I was bulletproof, so I acted ridiculous in order to draw the SK's shot away from my scumbuddy (and it worked!).
- In Basic 74 I wavered around on the low end of people's lists for most of the game (for reasons people couldn't specify when i asked them. They just kept saying I "felt" scummy or saying things that I already refuted), but on Day 3, Generic and I pulled a little gambit that made a number of people feel better about me and we went on to swing the game in our favor whilst fighting eachother and making the rest of the town choose sides, but somehow convincing them to lynch someone else (heh).
I don't think I was very scummy at all in 74.
Yeah, sorry for lack of activity. I've been having vertigo the past few days. When I start feeling better, I'll catch up with this game and start making some scummy posts because, apparently, I unintentionally make a lot of those.
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Generic voted me in RVS and it was obviously being silly. Why would I react to it?
I didn't ask Generic to explain his RVS stuff; Wheat did.
Again you say nothing to or about this.
The only thing I have seen you do was omgus over react to cythare and follow others views. My question is why? Why did you ignore generic a d why are u following others?
First, I say nothing about it because he's obviously being silly and there is nothing to say about it.
I don't believe that I overreacted to Cythare. His push was awful and doesn't look townie at all, in my opinion.
I have done much more than just "follow other's views." You're making me think that you aren't even reading my posts, pinky. I've made points against both Cythare and Swishh. The fact that I haven't made EVERY point shouldn't be a problem.
Lastly, why are you attacking /me/ for not contributing enough (which is false), while there are others who are on a wagon with far less basis (off the top of my head: dking and Cythare).
You did say something about his RVS votes:
@Generic: Why did you go on to make two RVS posts after RVS had clearly ended? And even if you wanted to get your "fun time" in, you still ignored the real things going on; you could have done both.
This quote is from [url=http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10538238&postcount=54]post 54[/url]
Why are you lying?
Lets talk about you following others for a moment.
You only [url=http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10538248&postcount=56]lol[/url] at swishh and don't ask a question
You then [url=http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10539756&postcount=78]follow Tan's point against Swissh[/url]
This post is following Generic
You got here before a number of people did. Why singling out Pinky?
Cythare noted your question to Tan, which reads as serious. Your Fry expression is a look of not sure what to think if you read the smily.
So why does Cythare's discussion about your seriousness read scummy?
Why not?
Okay.
I see your and raise you a :cryo:. You're blowing his RVS vote out of proportion.
I'm blowing things out of proportion? I think you are now.
Is your vote serious or no?
Lastly I'm attacking you for following others and not explaining **** about your reasoning. I said nothing about your contrabution it is your following others I find scummy.
@ pinky, I thought I had explained why karn is town to me, its funny because you are doing the exact same thing he is in throwing out a line of questions on things that in places are fairly immaterial.
But one thing I do find interesting, why are you trying to create a dichotomy between me and karn? I haven't figured out if you are goading an argument between us or trying to create a world where we are somehow working together, but either way if you are town I think you are going about things in the wrong way.
It's not a dichontomy I am trying to create. It's Sir Karn's lack of interaction with you I question. Usually in the past you two chat up a storm in past games. I find it a bit strange he is not interacting with you. When I think a player is scum there is one of two things I expect to happen when 2 players know each other well.
1) is scum will buddy up to the friend
2) is ignore their friend.
Sir Karn ignoring you is a ping on my scum radar for mostly ignoring you.
@WG:
I'm not sure if this question is addressed to me or Karn. If it is addressed to me, let me know and I'll answer it.[/url]
That was suppossed to be a question to you.
[quote=WG]swishh thought Cythare was scum, but then very quickly switched to Sir Karn. I distrusted the motives of people thinking Sir Karn was scum, and also distrusted the motives of people thinking Cythare was scum. swishh was in both categories.
Why?????
**Just a note for me, look into vote count and reasons for both sides:
As for "were you viewed as scummy in those games?"
- In Lucian, I was uberScum, but it was on purpose since I was bulletproof, so I acted ridiculous in order to draw the SK's shot away from my scumbuddy (and it worked!).
- In Basic 74 I wavered around on the low end of people's lists for most of the game (for reasons people couldn't specify when i asked them. They just kept saying I "felt" scummy or saying things that I already refuted), but on Day 3, Generic and I pulled a little gambit that made a number of people feel better about me and we went on to swing the game in our favor whilst fighting eachother and making the rest of the town choose sides, but somehow convincing them to lynch someone else (heh).
I don't think I was very scummy at all in 74.
Oh yeah I remember Lucian now. You were somehow even scummier there than you usually are as town.
So I'll keep an eye on you just in case since you're usually scummier than this but I think you're town.
For reference, the question PB asked there was "What did you think of Sir Karn's and Generic's response to your questions?"
Sir Karn's response made enough sense for me to let it go.
Generic's response was what I expected and thus was just fine.
Quote from PB »
Quote from WG »
swishh thought Cythare was scum, but then very quickly switched to Sir Karn. I distrusted the motives of people thinking Sir Karn was scum, and also distrusted the motives of people thinking Cythare was scum. swishh was in both categories.
Why?????
Scum wouldn't bus each other to end RVS. I just can't imagine that being the case ever. Therefore, at least one of the two was town but the ambiguity of some of the posts made it hard to determine whether both were or one was and if only one then which one. If someone who is town is getting voted, I distrust motives.
@Generic: Why did you go on to make two RVS posts after RVS had clearly ended? And even if you wanted to get your "fun time" in, you still ignored the real things going on; you could have done both.
Also karn you asked gen to explain his rvs votes and then dropped it. If the answer was not important, why did you ask it?
Never did I ask him to "explain his rvs votes".
I asked specifically why Generic was making an RVS post after RVS had already ended. I didn't ask him why he was voting certain people - that read as natural RVS stuff.
Also, dking looks like scum as well. 113 is baaaad. His vote isn't any better.
And says nothing at all. No reason why just a blanket statement that shows no reasoning.
I thought it was obvious. Do you think DKing's post was good?
He throws insults at Generic.
Then makes an eyebrow without explaining it.
Then he barns you (oh, but since it's you that he's following, you won't say anything about it, right?).
Then he tries to say I made a big deal out of Tanarin's post when I simply asked a question, then left it alone when Tanarin provided an answer.
You got here before a number of people did. Why singling out Pinky?
Cythare noted your question to Tan, which reads as serious. Your Fry expression is a look of not sure what to think if you read the smily.
So why does Cythare's discussion about your seriousness read scummy?
Why not?
Okay.
I see your and raise you a :cryo:. You're blowing his RVS vote out of proportion.
I'm blowing things out of proportion? I think you are now.
Is your vote serious or no?
Cythare is trying to tell everyone that I was "blowing his RVS vote out of proportion." when I simply asked one question then when he answered, let it be. I don't see AT ALL how that's blowing it out of proportion, and Cythare's hop on me for it is extremely predatory.
Lastly I'm attacking you for following others and not explaining **** about your reasoning. I said nothing about your contrabution it is your following others I find scummy.
So you think my contributions are fine, but you don't like how I also agree with some other people's contributions while I'm at it?
Also, you're accusing me of not explaining my reasoning? You're wrong.
@ pinky, I thought I had explained why karn is town to me, its funny because you are doing the exact same thing he is in throwing out a line of questions on things that in places are fairly immaterial.
But one thing I do find interesting, why are you trying to create a dichotomy between me and karn? I haven't figured out if you are goading an argument between us or trying to create a world where we are somehow working together, but either way if you are town I think you are going about things in the wrong way.
It's not a dichontomy I am trying to create. It's Sir Karn's lack of interaction with you I question. Usually in the past you two chat up a storm in past games. I find it a bit strange he is not interacting with you. When I think a player is scum there is one of two things I expect to happen when 2 players know each other well.
1) is scum will buddy up to the friend
2) is ignore their friend.
Sir Karn ignoring you is a ping on my scum radar for mostly ignoring you.
Generic didn't do anything I see as scummy yet. Where did I "ignore" him?
Also, believe me, Generic and I have no problem bussing eachother.
To be fair sir karn, in basic 74 you hammered the first three lynches! The reason you were called s ummy I think was by default, too many auto clears reduced the available options.
I still don't see how anyone could construe the first one as scummy. At least 10 out of the 12 people in the game were in agreeance with it, then when she flipped town they were like ":mob: Karn!"
I really feel like both wagons are just residues of RVS. I need to reread and more players need to contribute, especially Void and Cythare.
Unvote
Why those two?
Generic - Contributing
Sir Karn - Contributing
Tanarin - Contributing
swishh - Contributing
pinkys_brain - Contributing
Guardman - Contributing
Wheat_Grinder - Contributing
Cythare - Was Contributing (Closing in on two RL days gone)
dkingsland967 - Hardly Contributing (Two posts outside RVS)
hansanator - Explained why not Contributing (Sick)
Void - Not Contributing (Only posts were first two posts of the game (RVS))
Atogaholic - Not Contributing (hasn't even checked in)
1 is this from experience or expectation?
I only have seen a quick lynch at the start of day 1 with scum hammering once. More often it does not happen.
2. Mmmmmm. I saw a quick lynch flip scum and town. Why other than experience does it feel off.
What is your thought on the swish wagon?
One is from a bit of both. I figure if scum was not on the wagon, they would easily have quickhammered "by accident" and gotten away with it cleanly.
As for 2, I dunno if I can say anything other than experience TBH. I really don't know what else you could be looking for. Sometimes things just have a feel about them that can't be explained.
As for the swishh wagon, I definitely feel it is valid as I am the one who made the initial case on him (The vote before me is an RVS remain so I am not counting it ATM). I don't think I can honestly answer this question more than I just did without bias. Maybe it is better to ask those NOT on the wagon how they feel if you are looking for an unbiased answer.
Talk about forced, the only genuine thing in that was your snidey little comment about me being a cry baby, which clearly shows you are unsettled by my suspicion of you.
Everything I do serves a purpose, whether it be for my own gain or to create a left of centre position that stops anyone trying to play out a tactic the way they hoped they would. You will learn this about me onje day, but either way you have made me very comfortable keeping me vote on you.
No, I'm unsettled by you insulting me after your nuclear meltdown with Taredas and TCM in our other ongoing game. You were one of the players who helped me out at the beginning of that game so I have no interest in starting some kind of stupid feud with you, but on the other hand I don't know why you're trying to mimic a playstyle that you have been very vocal about your distaste of. Give it a rest.
Dking: Is this your first game? If not, how many games have you played?
This is my second game, I am in one other currently ongoing. Part of the reason I haven't posted much is because I'm still trying to get my bearings. Generic and Hans are in my other game, and Wheat was in Survival Horror which I read all of, but every other player in this game is pretty much completely unknown to me.
I have done much more than just "follow other's views." You're making me think that you aren't even reading my posts, pinky. I've made points against both Cythare and Swishh. The fact that I haven't made EVERY point shouldn't be a problem.
Lastly, why are you attacking /me/ for not contributing enough (which is false), while there are others who are on a wagon with far less basis (off the top of my head: dking and Cythare).
This looks like deflection... why does the fact that you made points against other players auto-clear you?
I really feel like both wagons are just residues of RVS. I need to reread and more players need to contribute, especially Void and Cythare.
That makes absolutely no sense. Your wagon started long after RVS ended. The first vote on it being an RVS vote has nothing to do with the source of it.
I really feel like both wagons are just residues of RVS. I need to reread and more players need to contribute, especially Void and Cythare.
Unvote
Please explain why you think your wagon is residue of the RVS?
swishh (5) - Void, Tanarin, Sir Karn, Guardman, Wheat_Grinder
Void's vote was flat out RVS.
Tanarin voted me because he didn't think I had a legitimate reason to switch from Cythare to Sir Karn. I addressed this issue, but he hasn't followed up. His vote is stale.
I still think Sir Karn is likely scum.
It was never clear why Guardman voted me. Apparently it was because Tanarin believed there was scum on the Sir Karn wagon. @Tanarin: Do you believe there is scum on my wagon?
Guardman laid out a few reasons later for voting me, all of which I addressed and to which he never countered. His vote is also stale. What_Grinder's vote on me is absolutely ludicrous.
I really feel like both wagons are just residues of RVS. I need to reread and more players need to contribute, especially Void and Cythare.
Unvote
Why those two?
Generic - Contributing
Sir Karn - Contributing
Tanarin - Contributing
swishh - Contributing
pinkys_brain - Contributing
Guardman - Contributing
Wheat_Grinder - Contributing
Cythare - Was Contributing (Closing in on two RL days gone)
dkingsland967 - Hardly Contributing (Two posts outside RVS)
hansanator - Explained why not Contributing (Sick)
Void - Not Contributing (Only posts were first two posts of the game (RVS))
Atogaholic - Not Contributing (hasn't even checked in)
@Mod: Atogaholic needs a prod I think.
Well, as you yourself indicated, Cythare was contributing but is no longer. Void is not contributing. I didn't even know Atogaholic was in the game. What is your motive for asking me this question?
I really feel like both wagons are just residues of RVS. I need to reread and more players need to contribute, especially Void and Cythare.
That makes absolutely no sense. Your wagon started long after RVS ended. The first vote on it being an RVS vote has nothing to do with the source of it.
I didn't say the wagons were composed of RVS votes. I said they were residues of RVS which had just recently ended.
This looks like deflection... why does the fact that you made points against other players auto-clear you?
What?
PB was saying that I have just been following people and not making my own points, so I pointed out that I /have/ made my own points. I'm not saying it should "auto-clear" me; I'm showing how one of the reasons PB thinks I'm scum is wrong.
Point out what looks like deflection to you specifically.
I don't even know where you got the idea for this, dking.
I really feel like both wagons are just residues of RVS. I need to reread and more players need to contribute, especially Void and Cythare.
Unvote
Why those two?
Well, as you yourself indicated, Cythare was contributing but is no longer. Void is not contributing. I didn't even know Atogaholic was in the game. What is your motive for asking me this question?
I really feel like both wagons are just residues of RVS. I need to reread and more players need to contribute, especially Void and Cythare.
Unvote
Please explain why you think your wagon is residue of the RVS?
swishh (5) - Void, Tanarin, Sir Karn, Guardman, Wheat_Grinder
Void's vote was flat out RVS.
Tanarin voted me because he didn't think I had a legitimate reason to switch from Cythare to Sir Karn. I addressed this issue, but he hasn't followed up. His vote is stale.
I still think Sir Karn is likely scum.
It was never clear why Guardman voted me. Apparently it was because Tanarin believed there was scum on the Sir Karn wagon. @Tanarin: Do you believe there is scum on my wagon?
Guardman laid out a few reasons later for voting me, all of which I addressed and to which he never countered. His vote is also stale. What_Grinder's vote on me is absolutely ludicrous.
Void's vote is RVS. This is TRUE. Also Aliens.
*Notes the signs of a possible alien abduction
As for the rest of your reasoning: Sir Karn is scum, therefore doesn't count (which your own opinion, and doesn't discount his vote). WG is insane (which while true, doesn't discount that he has legitimate reasons for voting for you).
As for Tan and me, you claim our votes are stale because you addressed the reason we are voting for you. I can't speak for Tan, but for me you haven't addressed anything that makes me want to change my mind.
1. You bring up this "tell", but treat talking about it like talking about he who shall not be named.
2. I have to pry teeth explaining why you can talk about it and even then its not until I back you into a corner about it that you even acknowledge you can.
3. Your response to me answer is poor at best. Your reasoning behind it is basically scum is more prone to hyperbole. Which one you admit isn't as hard a tell as you've been trying to sell it as. And two isn't even that strong of a tell if any as town are as likely to make hyperbolic statements as scum. If anything it depends more on the person than the alignment as some people just talk in more hyperbolic manner than others.
4. This response is basically mudslinging at your wagon.
As for why I am voting for you it's a combination of how you are responding to pressure/questions and the way you are trying to sell something as being worthy of a lynch by itself when even you admit that town do it to.
1. I will not discuss ongoing games.
2. I will not discuss ongoing games.
3. The statistics speak for themselves. The probability that a randomly selected player in any given game is scum is around .25 - .33. The probability that a randomly selected player is scum given that the player has said "scummy as hell" shoots up to well above .5.
And it's not like this is the ONLY thing going against Sir Karn. You may or may not have noticed that there are 5 people on his wagon. Or were at last vote count.
Funny thing about the bomb is that scum can night kill them; the only way to eliminate it is to lynch. I guess it's in scum's best interest to do that while they know who the bomb is. If I do get lynched today, hopefully town will be perceptive enough to realize this. I'm not holding out too much faith though.
3. The statistics speak for themselves. The probability that a randomly selected player in any given game is scum is around .25 - .33. The probability that a randomly selected player is scum given that the player has said "scummy as hell" shoots up to well above .5.
If this is the case I would like to see your research and references (along with who said it in what games). Right now all your giving me is statistics, and you know what they say - There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Generic, I'm not trying to paint you into a corner... I'm not asking for you to comment on things you can't comment on, just saying why don't we chill on the name calling. Also, FYI, I missed your Corleoni household comment in #60. If I had seen that, I wouldn't have brought up your earlier QT comment.
As for Sir Karn, I genuinely don't like his push on Tanarin's obvious RVS vote. It mimics something else that you and I can't discuss, but I'm pretty sure if you think for a moment you'll know what I'm talking about. He also spent a good deal of time making responses to posts against him that contained no actual content whatsoever.
Swishh doesn't look good either. I previously raised an eyebrow at his #105. The "scummy as hell" tell just seems ridiculous, I've seen lots of people say that and that is some major straw-grasping. #96 is terrible, and #148 isn't much better.
As far as town reads go, I think pinky has mostly questioned Karn in a way that reads Town to me. Guardman had some good interactions with Swishh. Other than that, no one really sticks out.
Scum wouldn't bus each other to end RVS. I just can't imagine that being the case ever. Therefore, at least one of the two was town but the ambiguity of some of the posts made it hard to determine whether both were or one was and if only one then which one. If someone who is town is getting voted, I distrust motives.
Hey Sir Karn, what did you mean by the picture of Fry?
By which I mean, you were not sure if he was _____ or _____. Fill in the blanks.
@SK: This is basically what I was getting at with my vote. Fry has a specific meaning, and it looked like you were trying to indicate that there was something else going on while avoiding clarification.
Hey Sir Karn, what did you mean by the picture of Fry?
By which I mean, you were not sure if he was _____ or _____. Fill in the blanks.
I wasn't gong for that meaning of Fry. I just wanted to show squinty eyes, as that's the reaction that I had to Tanarin's response.
I went something along the lines of *squints* *sits there* *ponders things for a moment* "alright." while reading Tanarin's post.
*snip*
Cythare trying to pin me as scum for this, he looks scummy as hell.
Scummy as hell for calling you out on using a smiley in a way that indicated you knew something more? How was I supposed to know you were using it improperly?
Cythare, you prefer feminine pronouns. Confirm/deny?
Not the most relevant querstion, but sure. I don't have a strong preference either way. I have gotten used to people on the Internet assuming I'm female (apparently use of proper grammar and being nice = being a girl), and I've kinda adjusted my persona accordingly, but I'm fine w/ either feminine or masculine pronouns, just not gender-neutral ones.
@Cythare: I think you are overreacting a bit on your vote. Not enough to say you are scum as well, as again I can see both town and scum jumping on Sir Karn for what he said.
Yeah, it looks like a lot of people think I'm overreacting. It still looks bad to me, but w/e. At least it got the game proper started, I guess?
@p_b: Cythare's attack based on Sir Karn's use of the fry smiley was a stretch and somewhat predatory.
Nice. Considering that Sir Karn's line of questioning based on an RVS vote looked out of place, it seemed like a reasonable place to put a starting non-RVS vote.
pinky's stuff looks townie to me so far. I think that the questions she's asking of Sir Karn come from a town mindset, and I like the questions she's asking. The questions she asked of other people here could have come from either side, but overall, she looks good to me.
Also, don't like Generic's QT comment... seems like a WIFOM "scum would never say that... would they?" type of thing.
This whole post looks forced. While I will admit that my reaction may have been strong, this vote looks opportunistic, and the reasoning is weak. Your comment on Generic looks fence-sitty. You're just noting it and not expounding on it further, which leaves you room to say "aha, I called it" if Generic flips scum, or "oh, it was just something that looked off" if he flips town.
"Scummy as hell" is my new favorite scum tell. Why not just say "scummy?" Or "really scummy?"
If by some stroke of misfortune Sir Karn is town, then I believe Cythare is scum. I do not think they both are. Cythare's attack was either predatory or perceptive, and scum wouldn't go after a scum buddy like that.
Question: While I still think SK is scummy (most of his other stuff has been pretty null to me), I'm curious as to why you think one of us must be scum. Do you have some reasoning that would preclude both of us from being town or are you just hedging your bets?
Sir Karn (5) - hansanator, Cythare, Generic, swishh, dkingsland967
There be scum on this here wagon.
@Swishh: So... basically you are not gonna back up what you claim when asked for proof, huh? Not only that, you claim you can not say no more at this point. I still think there is plenty to talk about here, like my second question to you in my last post.
Is your logic on there being scum on the wagon just based on wagon speed, or do you specifically think people here are scum (I realize you're voting swishh)? I'm curious if your logic is primarily a numbers game. Are there specific people on here that you believe are more scummy than others?
@SK:
I'll put my case against you aside for now, since there's not much else to go on. I still have an uneasy feeling about you, because your questioning seemd out of place, and the Fry didn't look like dropping it, it looked like a weird fence-sit, but it's a tenuous point at best now that we're well out of RVS. Besides, there are more than one scum, and I'm more interested in:
Dking
62 is bad. I noted this above, but he votes SK based on using "too many reallys" and then fence sits on Generic.
113 is bad. Some (OOG-based?) personal attack on Generic (which, to be fair, Generic reciprocates), then quotes swishh and p_b and provides little of his own reasoning.
160 is still not great. Talks about past issues w/ Generic, calls SK out for "deflecting", and seems to indicate that SK is suggesting his activity auto-clears him. I must have missed where SK said that, and this just looks like trying to paint someone else scummy for saying something he didn't say.
@pinky: I didn't know Generic made a case against me. Where?
Generics 61 - I don't think Generic says anything in this post.
"Wheat has been asking questions, but has not responded back to anyone but Swishh." - What about that post that you quoted in your very same post where Wheat is responding to other people?
My Swishh vote is not weak reasoning.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Two fold reasoning here:
1. Karn had a semi legit argument against him and his wagon was moving pretty fast. If scum were NOT on the wagon, it is not unreasonable for them to attempt a quickhammer if they were paying attention to the vote count and easily claim they were not paying attention. Said quickhammer did not happen.
2. The speed of the wagon feels REAL off to me. I don't see an all town wagon forming this early. Scum HAS to be on that wagon somewhere.
As far as Sir Karn is concerned, I am not so much reading him as town, nor do I think his wagon on him MAKES him town. I should re-read Karn of late as I have been focused on swishh, but other than what you pointed out in your post, my read of Karn has been neutral.
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And more following others instead of making your own case make me keep my vote on you.
Explain why post 113 is bad.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
He explained his RVS "reads" on Wheat, Guard, and Karn. (Which I didn't have a problem with in the first place.)
Then he said why he wasn't feeling the Cythare wagon. (Which read reasonably.)
Then he said the only thing in the post which stuck out to me. ("Swishh will inevitably be scum.") It's not even a necessarily scummy thing to say, and it doesn't read as particularly serious either. It just stuck out to me for some reason.
Is there anything I'm missing that he said? Why are you asking me about this post in particular? It doesn't seem very important to me at all.
1 is this from experience or expectation?
I only have seen a quick lynch at the start of day 1 with scum hammering once. More often it does not happen.
2. Mmmmmm. I saw a quick lynch flip scum and town. Why other than experience does it feel off.
What is your thought on the swish wagon?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Generic voted for you. You did not interact with him.
Then in post 60 all he say about you was this:
Again you say nothing to or about this. The only thing I have seen you do was omgus over react to cythare and follow others views.
My question is why? Why did you ignore generic a d why are u following others?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
I didn't ask Generic to explain his RVS stuff; Wheat did.
First, I say nothing about it because he's obviously being silly and there is nothing to say about it.
I don't believe that I overreacted to Cythare. His push was awful and doesn't look townie at all, in my opinion.
I have done much more than just "follow other's views." You're making me think that you aren't even reading my posts, pinky. I've made points against both Cythare and Swishh. The fact that I haven't made EVERY point shouldn't be a problem.
Lastly, why are you attacking /me/ for not contributing enough (which is false), while there are others who are on a wagon with far less basis (off the top of my head: dking and Cythare).
@Generic: Playing horribly is basically my town meta. Confirm/deny?
Sir Karn is making good posts that I agree with and that is making me feel weird.
Sir Karn: Have you been scum yet?
He only had three votes on himself, less than half what it would take to lynch him. Being worried from just that is definitely being overly worried in my book.
I'm not sure if this question is addressed to me or Karn. If it is addressed to me, let me know and I'll answer it.
He definitely responded to me so you must have. Unless you mean my response, in which case I haven't made it yet; I was too focused on swishh last night. I need to go back to that post so I'll probably do so immediately following this post.
Honestly, I've purged most of 73 from my mind because as I recall I was lynched for being too town and it left a sour taste in my mouth.
I seem to get the feeling that swishh is flailing more than I've seen in other games, though. Not just 73, but his town games too.
swishh thought Cythare was scum, but then very quickly switched to Sir Karn. I distrusted the motives of people thinking Sir Karn was scum, and also distrusted the motives of people thinking Cythare was scum. swishh was in both categories.
I was trying to figure out what people were thinking with my post 58 since there was a lot of misinformation going around it seemed, so I wasn't yet sure enough for a vote, but I was expecting swishh to turn up as the most likely scum in the mix due to the quick flip between them.
Well PB is probably town.
lol
dking is scum.
What's your scum meta? Like, what is the difference between your town and scum play?
I've been scum twice, but both times I replaced in (one very late Day 1 (with me hammering upon entrance), and one very late Day 2 (with someone else dropping a hammer minutes before I posted)). So no, there's no Day 1 scumKarn for you to compare to (that's what I'm assuming you're looking for).
You're nothing without me!
(In reality though, we both worked well together.)
Timeline:
41: Karn posts an ambiguous post in response to Tanarin saying "Why not?" in response to being asked why he was singling out Pinky. The ambiguity makes me wonder what his motivation is.
42-43: Cythare calls him out and votes him for blowing RVS out of proportion. The post made me wonder if Cythare is scum because I've always been a follower of the MandersHex interpretation of RVS, in that you can sometimes determine alignment that way.
44-45: They go another back and forth.
46: swishh jumps in, calling Karn bad but not scummy and Cythare scummy but not bad.
47-50: Cythare and Karn go another two rounds.
51: I see multiple motivations, so I try to determine mindsets. I start at the source; why did Karn respond the way he did in 41?
54: Karn responds, and clarifies to an extent his thought process. I accept it.
55: swishh flips over to Karn for no stated reason.
58: Since the source was clarified a little better, I went on to ask all the other players in there (plus Generic who I haven't mentioned in this timeline because his vote was more RVS) what their thought processes were.
And then...swishh never responds and Cythare has not posted again yet.
Well that was a pretty sad end. I even forgot what I wanted to ask Karn in his 54.
I want to see more posts from Cythare but I get the feeling swishh was definitely going for a mislynch with that switch.
@swishh: I apologize if this was already asked, but why did you switch from Cythare to Karn?
Were you seen as scum in those games? That's more what I was after.
Yeah but that's not what I asked. I asked what your scum meta is. How would YOU describe your scum meta?
It was essentially rhetorical because from what little I recall that is exactly the same as your town meta with you playing horribly, given that you were a lynch candidate IIRC.
As for my scum meta, I guess in Disney Villains I was aware that I would have to convince everyone that I was town, so my play was more cautious than usual.
Sir Karn (5) - hansanator, Cythare, swishh, dkingsland967, pinkys_brain
swishh (5) - Void, Tanarin, Sir Karn, Guardman, Wheat_Grinder
dkingsland67 (1) - Generic
Not Voting (1) - Atogaholic
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Please refrain from posting more than three times in a row. This aids in thread readability for everyone involved. TIA.
Hansanator's was RVS and hasn't posted since iirc.
As for "were you viewed as scummy in those games?"
- In Lucian, I was uberScum, but it was on purpose since I was bulletproof, so I acted ridiculous in order to draw the SK's shot away from my scumbuddy (and it worked!).
- In Basic 74 I wavered around on the low end of people's lists for most of the game (for reasons people couldn't specify when i asked them. They just kept saying I "felt" scummy or saying things that I already refuted), but on Day 3, Generic and I pulled a little gambit that made a number of people feel better about me and we went on to swing the game in our favor whilst fighting eachother and making the rest of the town choose sides, but somehow convincing them to lynch someone else (heh).
I don't think I was very scummy at all in 74.
yes
"At the end of each Night but before the start of each Day, all items will be randomized among all living players."
Yeah, sorry for lack of activity. I've been having vertigo the past few days. When I start feeling better, I'll catch up with this game and start making some scummy posts because, apparently, I unintentionally make a lot of those.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I'm sure it is.
You did say something about his RVS votes:
This quote is from [url=http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10538238&postcount=54]post 54[/url]
Why are you lying?
Lets talk about you following others for a moment.
You only [url=http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10538248&postcount=56]lol[/url] at swishh and don't ask a question
You then [url=http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10539756&postcount=78]follow Tan's point against Swissh[/url]
This post is following Generic
And says nothing at all. No reason why just a blanket statement that shows no reasoning.
Now lets discuss Cythare for a moment.
What is scummy about this post that you made against him?
Lastly I'm attacking you for following others and not explaining **** about your reasoning. I said nothing about your contrabution it is your following others I find scummy.
It's not a dichontomy I am trying to create. It's Sir Karn's lack of interaction with you I question. Usually in the past you two chat up a storm in past games. I find it a bit strange he is not interacting with you. When I think a player is scum there is one of two things I expect to happen when 2 players know each other well.
1) is scum will buddy up to the friend
2) is ignore their friend.
Sir Karn ignoring you is a ping on my scum radar for mostly ignoring you.
@WG:
Why?????
**Just a note for me, look into vote count and reasons for both sides:
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Oh yeah I remember Lucian now. You were somehow even scummier there than you usually are as town.
So I'll keep an eye on you just in case since you're usually scummier than this but I think you're town.
One word answers don't help me much, proof please?
For reference, the question PB asked there was "What did you think of Sir Karn's and Generic's response to your questions?"
Sir Karn's response made enough sense for me to let it go.
Generic's response was what I expected and thus was just fine.
Scum wouldn't bus each other to end RVS. I just can't imagine that being the case ever. Therefore, at least one of the two was town but the ambiguity of some of the posts made it hard to determine whether both were or one was and if only one then which one. If someone who is town is getting voted, I distrust motives.
You made it sound like I was asking about the content, where I was obviously not.
Never did I ask him to "explain his rvs votes".
I asked specifically why Generic was making an RVS post after RVS had already ended. I didn't ask him why he was voting certain people - that read as natural RVS stuff.
---
Tanarin made a point, then I also made a point while agreeing with Tanarin. What's your point?
I thought it was obvious. Do you think DKing's post was good?
He throws insults at Generic.
Then makes an eyebrow without explaining it.
Then he barns you (oh, but since it's you that he's following, you won't say anything about it, right?).
Then he tries to say I made a big deal out of Tanarin's post when I simply asked a question, then left it alone when Tanarin provided an answer.
Cythare is trying to tell everyone that I was "blowing his RVS vote out of proportion." when I simply asked one question then when he answered, let it be. I don't see AT ALL how that's blowing it out of proportion, and Cythare's hop on me for it is extremely predatory.
So you think my contributions are fine, but you don't like how I also agree with some other people's contributions while I'm at it?
Also, you're accusing me of not explaining my reasoning? You're wrong.
Generic didn't do anything I see as scummy yet. Where did I "ignore" him?
Also, believe me, Generic and I have no problem bussing eachother.
I still don't see how anyone could construe the first one as scummy. At least 10 out of the 12 people in the game were in agreeance with it, then when she flipped town they were like ":mob: Karn!"
I think that the cases so far are that I apparently used the emoticon incorrectly, and that I used the phrase "scummy as hell."
Unvote
Please explain why you think your wagon is residue of the RVS?
Why those two?
Generic - Contributing
Sir Karn - Contributing
Tanarin - Contributing
swishh - Contributing
pinkys_brain - Contributing
Guardman - Contributing
Wheat_Grinder - Contributing
Cythare - Was Contributing (Closing in on two RL days gone)
dkingsland967 - Hardly Contributing (Two posts outside RVS)
hansanator - Explained why not Contributing (Sick)
Void - Not Contributing (Only posts were first two posts of the game (RVS))
Atogaholic - Not Contributing (hasn't even checked in)
@Mod: Atogaholic needs a prod I think.
Atogaholic has received a prod (his first).
One is from a bit of both. I figure if scum was not on the wagon, they would easily have quickhammered "by accident" and gotten away with it cleanly.
As for 2, I dunno if I can say anything other than experience TBH. I really don't know what else you could be looking for. Sometimes things just have a feel about them that can't be explained.
As for the swishh wagon, I definitely feel it is valid as I am the one who made the initial case on him (The vote before me is an RVS remain so I am not counting it ATM). I don't think I can honestly answer this question more than I just did without bias. Maybe it is better to ask those NOT on the wagon how they feel if you are looking for an unbiased answer.
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No, I'm unsettled by you insulting me after your nuclear meltdown with Taredas and TCM in our other ongoing game. You were one of the players who helped me out at the beginning of that game so I have no interest in starting some kind of stupid feud with you, but on the other hand I don't know why you're trying to mimic a playstyle that you have been very vocal about your distaste of. Give it a rest.
This is my second game, I am in one other currently ongoing. Part of the reason I haven't posted much is because I'm still trying to get my bearings. Generic and Hans are in my other game, and Wheat was in Survival Horror which I read all of, but every other player in this game is pretty much completely unknown to me.
This looks like deflection... why does the fact that you made points against other players auto-clear you?
That makes absolutely no sense. Your wagon started long after RVS ended. The first vote on it being an RVS vote has nothing to do with the source of it.
swishh (5) - Void, Tanarin, Sir Karn, Guardman, Wheat_Grinder
Void's vote was flat out RVS.
Tanarin voted me because he didn't think I had a legitimate reason to switch from Cythare to Sir Karn. I addressed this issue, but he hasn't followed up. His vote is stale.
I still think Sir Karn is likely scum.
It was never clear why Guardman voted me. Apparently it was because Tanarin believed there was scum on the Sir Karn wagon. @Tanarin: Do you believe there is scum on my wagon?
Guardman laid out a few reasons later for voting me, all of which I addressed and to which he never countered. His vote is also stale.
What_Grinder's vote on me is absolutely ludicrous.
Well, as you yourself indicated, Cythare was contributing but is no longer. Void is not contributing. I didn't even know Atogaholic was in the game. What is your motive for asking me this question?
I didn't say the wagons were composed of RVS votes. I said they were residues of RVS which had just recently ended.
What?
PB was saying that I have just been following people and not making my own points, so I pointed out that I /have/ made my own points. I'm not saying it should "auto-clear" me; I'm showing how one of the reasons PB thinks I'm scum is wrong.
Point out what looks like deflection to you specifically.
I don't even know where you got the idea for this, dking.
Void's vote is RVS. This is TRUE. Also Aliens.
*Notes the signs of a possible alien abduction
As for the rest of your reasoning: Sir Karn is scum, therefore doesn't count (which your own opinion, and doesn't discount his vote). WG is insane (which while true, doesn't discount that he has legitimate reasons for voting for you).
As for Tan and me, you claim our votes are stale because you addressed the reason we are voting for you. I can't speak for Tan, but for me you haven't addressed anything that makes me want to change my mind.
1. You bring up this "tell", but treat talking about it like talking about he who shall not be named.
2. I have to pry teeth explaining why you can talk about it and even then its not until I back you into a corner about it that you even acknowledge you can.
3. Your response to me answer is poor at best. Your reasoning behind it is basically scum is more prone to hyperbole. Which one you admit isn't as hard a tell as you've been trying to sell it as. And two isn't even that strong of a tell if any as town are as likely to make hyperbolic statements as scum. If anything it depends more on the person than the alignment as some people just talk in more hyperbolic manner than others.
4. This response is basically mudslinging at your wagon.
As for why I am voting for you it's a combination of how you are responding to pressure/questions and the way you are trying to sell something as being worthy of a lynch by itself when even you admit that town do it to.
2. I will not discuss ongoing games.
3. The statistics speak for themselves. The probability that a randomly selected player in any given game is scum is around .25 - .33. The probability that a randomly selected player is scum given that the player has said "scummy as hell" shoots up to well above .5.
And it's not like this is the ONLY thing going against Sir Karn. You may or may not have noticed that there are 5 people on his wagon. Or were at last vote count.
Funny thing about the bomb is that scum can night kill them; the only way to eliminate it is to lynch. I guess it's in scum's best interest to do that while they know who the bomb is. If I do get lynched today, hopefully town will be perceptive enough to realize this. I'm not holding out too much faith though.
If this is the case I would like to see your research and references (along with who said it in what games). Right now all your giving me is statistics, and you know what they say - There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
As for Sir Karn, I genuinely don't like his push on Tanarin's obvious RVS vote. It mimics something else that you and I can't discuss, but I'm pretty sure if you think for a moment you'll know what I'm talking about. He also spent a good deal of time making responses to posts against him that contained no actual content whatsoever.
Swishh doesn't look good either. I previously raised an eyebrow at his #105. The "scummy as hell" tell just seems ridiculous, I've seen lots of people say that and that is some major straw-grasping. #96 is terrible, and #148 isn't much better.
As far as town reads go, I think pinky has mostly questioned Karn in a way that reads Town to me. Guardman had some good interactions with Swishh. Other than that, no one really sticks out.
Serious question... why would scum never do this?
Answers first:
@SK: This is basically what I was getting at with my vote. Fry has a specific meaning, and it looked like you were trying to indicate that there was something else going on while avoiding clarification.
Scummy as hell for calling you out on using a smiley in a way that indicated you knew something more? How was I supposed to know you were using it improperly?
Not the most relevant querstion, but sure. I don't have a strong preference either way. I have gotten used to people on the Internet assuming I'm female (apparently use of proper grammar and being nice = being a girl), and I've kinda adjusted my persona accordingly, but I'm fine w/ either feminine or masculine pronouns, just not gender-neutral ones.
Yeah, it looks like a lot of people think I'm overreacting. It still looks bad to me, but w/e. At least it got the game proper started, I guess?
Right back at ya, big boy.
W_G already stated this, but this is overly self-conscious.
Nice. Considering that Sir Karn's line of questioning based on an RVS vote looked out of place, it seemed like a reasonable place to put a starting non-RVS vote.
pinky's stuff looks townie to me so far. I think that the questions she's asking of Sir Karn come from a town mindset, and I like the questions she's asking. The questions she asked of other people here could have come from either side, but overall, she looks good to me.
Now some questions/comments:
This whole post looks forced. While I will admit that my reaction may have been strong, this vote looks opportunistic, and the reasoning is weak. Your comment on Generic looks fence-sitty. You're just noting it and not expounding on it further, which leaves you room to say "aha, I called it" if Generic flips scum, or "oh, it was just something that looked off" if he flips town.
Question: While I still think SK is scummy (most of his other stuff has been pretty null to me), I'm curious as to why you think one of us must be scum. Do you have some reasoning that would preclude both of us from being town or are you just hedging your bets?
Is your logic on there being scum on the wagon just based on wagon speed, or do you specifically think people here are scum (I realize you're voting swishh)? I'm curious if your logic is primarily a numbers game. Are there specific people on here that you believe are more scummy than others?
@SK:
I'll put my case against you aside for now, since there's not much else to go on. I still have an uneasy feeling about you, because your questioning seemd out of place, and the Fry didn't look like dropping it, it looked like a weird fence-sit, but it's a tenuous point at best now that we're well out of RVS. Besides, there are more than one scum, and I'm more interested in:
Dking
62 is bad. I noted this above, but he votes SK based on using "too many reallys" and then fence sits on Generic.
113 is bad. Some (OOG-based?) personal attack on Generic (which, to be fair, Generic reciprocates), then quotes swishh and p_b and provides little of his own reasoning.
160 is still not great. Talks about past issues w/ Generic, calls SK out for "deflecting", and seems to indicate that SK is suggesting his activity auto-clears him. I must have missed where SK said that, and this just looks like trying to paint someone else scummy for saying something he didn't say.
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Vote dking
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