I read spec chat, I was off my game at the beginning of the last Day because I actually screwed up the end of the previous one and was a little edgy about it, but the pressure never really materialized. I really didn't want to get lynched because I didn't think ria cared enough to endgame someone else the next day. I feel that I deserve a pat on the back for actually reading through this whole game and BV's MM7 to blind them with work though.
Darn. It's a shame the town lost; nonetheless, I thought that the mafia played a pretty strong game at the beginning--I haven't really followed this game for a while--and I think they deserved the win.
For what it's worth, I didn't actually realize I was hammering KK at that point, that wasn't a lie.
Not sure what else to say, as pretty much always happens in MM the scum just rode it out to LYLO and then preyed upon the laziness and inexperience of the town to seal the deal.
Jay's play was fantastic for a first-timer, which was unfortunate given that he was a fairly important role. The vig shot was pretty crippling to the town, would have been nice if Wheat could have waited but coming under pressure early on put him in a bad situation.
I wonder if I could have gotten by without bussing Void, but I had to call the bad case when I saw it. I didn't quite get the chance to nix that plan in scum chat, iirc Void mentioned something about going after her.
I did make mention of this case in the Scum Chat. The thing I didn't mention was that it was my plan to add a bad portion to the case so that Ria and yourself could be bus me into oblivion and get the Town cred to ride it out. I didn't mention this in the Scum Chat because I wanted to make sure you two had as natural of a reaction that you could.
I'm not sure how well that play benefited us, but Ria and yourself pulled it off. Either way, job well done!
@KoolKoal:
Perhaps you would like me to Mentor you in an upcoming Basic? We both might learn something in the process.
Fun fact: I caught 2 scum in their first posts but let them go and ALMOST Copped the 3rd on Night 1 opting to instead target GM (which ultimately didn't matter because BlackVise). Wheat's psychic powers distracted me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Darn. It's a shame the town lost; nonetheless, I thought that the mafia played a pretty strong game at the beginning--I haven't really followed this game for a while--and I think they deserved the win.
Oh yeah I forgot that I wanted to touch on this.
Never falseclaim as town ever.
There is a very good chance that I will disregard this comment. I am still going to fakeclaim whenever I see it necessary, regardless of which team I am on. Fakeclaiming as town is awesome and it (usually) works great!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Darn. It's a shame the town lost; nonetheless, I thought that the mafia played a pretty strong game at the beginning--I haven't really followed this game for a while--and I think they deserved the win.
Oh yeah I forgot that I wanted to touch on this.
Never falseclaim as town ever.
There is a very good chance that I will disregard this comment. I am still going to fakeclaim whenever I see it necessary, regardless of which team I am on. Fakeclaiming as town is awesome and it (usually) works great!
You need to learn when to fakeclaim as Town. Go read WWE Mafia and read Voxxicus' posts. See will you how a falseclaim gambit is suppose to work.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You can't blame me because day 1 info wasn't reaped to your liking. I was doing my own thing--and doing it quite well, actually--but then people started getting difficult.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Me lying about being able to self-target as a doctor in MM6 is a good example of a townie lying, because there's no downside for the town, and a significant upside (i.e. blocking the nightkill) if the gambit works as intended. You ****ing up day 1 is a bad example of townie lying, because you essentially killed off three townies (yourself and Arcadic, plus Iso) for no gain. It's not that people were being "difficult." It's that your play was awful and a severe detriment to the town. Make no mistake, you served no "greater good" in this game.
Arguing will get us nowhere, but I am confident that, had my plan unfurled properly, the outcome of this game would have changed drastically.
Also, I fail to see the correlation between myself and the death of both Iso and Arcadic.
You completely blew day one for the town, practically handing the game to the scum. What on earth did you possibly hope to accomplish? Were you intentionally trying to throw the game? Because if so, you succeeded spectacularly.
What was your "plan" Hans? Especially when you could've just tried to steal any target and confirm yourself as a town double voter?
His mass softclaim idea was to see if anyone claimed something against the setup, since I'm guessing he knew about the exploit in the role PM images (hence why Megs had to break the links to the role PM images and rehost them). As for the rest of his play, god only knows.
Either way, let's not have hans in future Modfias if there's open space for non-mods/exmods. I'm serious about this. I can accept bad play. But hans is being belligerent in his belief that the problem was with other players, not him (with the stated intention to engage in similar play in the future), and as such he's liable to repeat this kind of performance.
Not really interested in doing so, really. Modfia's a fun thing to do with other staff (and ex-staff) members, but the Mafia sub comes with some extra baggage that I'd rather not get into.
As far as the games being public goes, I don't mind this and future Modfias being public, but I'd prefer if previous ones stayed in the mod lounge (as opposed to moving them out into the open or whatever). This seems to be the prevailing attitude anyway, but whatever, just stating my opinion because why not.
Arguing will get us nowhere, but I am confident that, had my plan unfurled properly, the outcome of this game would have changed drastically.
Let's be real here. Your plan was to get the mafia to show they were afraid to lynch you. There are so many problems with this.
1. Only people the town already suspect are going to be told they need to hammer you. So if someone confirms themselves by refusing to hammer you, the town was already on track to catch them without the gambit.
2. Anyone who isn't being voted for can basically sit back and watch your gambit without losing any town cred.
3. A smart scum player will realize, if they're forced to hammer you, that they have no choice to go along with it and hammer as if they're an unafraid townie and hope you are bluffing. Then you get hammered, and the scum player gets town cred for being willing to hammer you.
Are you starting to understand how bad your plan was yet?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Fun fact: I caught 2 scum in their first posts but let them go and ALMOST Copped the 3rd on Night 1 opting to instead target GM (which ultimately didn't matter because BlackVise). Wheat's psychic powers distracted me.
There is a very good chance that I will disregard this comment. I am still going to fakeclaim whenever I see it necessary, regardless of which team I am on. Fakeclaiming as town is awesome and it (usually) works great!
You can't blame me because day 1 info wasn't reaped to your liking. I was doing my own thing--and doing it quite well, actually--but then people started getting difficult.
It ensured the lynch of town and made us all hate you.
Yes, but sometimes you gotta take the initiative and do things independently from your team, for the greater good.
How did this help the town.
And yes you do have to answer
And yes those answers better be really good
Because if you do it again without a very good reason I will nominate you for the blacklist, and that's not something I have ever even CONSIDERED doing before.
How come the mods don't join the regular MTGS Mafia playerbase?
Modfias exist as a team-building exercise. It's a way to get to know the people we work with in a context that isn't our own respective subs, and to interact on a more personal level.
Except Iso. With him, it's a way for us to see the wild Iso in its native habitat.
It's complicated. Some do, obviously, but there was some pushback* to even moving this game public, so...
*full disclosure: I didn't want to go public.
I hinted at (okay, lost my temper and shouted) my opinion in the game, but I want to clarify. I'm taking my mod hat off; this is just kaburi, random dude, and is in no way representative of the opinions of the rest of the staff.
I know for me, personally, I have absurd social anxiety, and the main Mafia community comes off as very elitist. In general, modfias skew more towards inexperienced players, and the main mafia community doesn't come off as newbie-friendly. That's part of why I blew my top in this game; I don't deal well with being judged, and I feel like the mafia community is very judgey of outsiders who want to come in.
One of the things Void said in his back and forth with Teia really struck me as symptomatic of this issue: "you should read the terms of our forum". (Emphasis mine, plus paraphrasing because too lazy to quote)
I was ready to go off on him about that post, but I PMed megs first to make sure that it wouldn't get me modkilled and he asked me to hold off until postgame to have this conversation. I'm fairly certain it would have earned me my first infraction; that's how upset I was.
I feel like if I went in the mafia forum and joined a game today, there would be active disdain from the other players. I would completely expect them to say "who the **** are you, thinking just because you have a bold name you can come play in our sandbox?" I was one of the most vocally against bringing the modfias public because I'm frankly afraid of the mafia community.
This is also a factor. Like I said earlier, modfias are a team building exercise. I don't think I would enjoy playing with a bunch of random strangers; the staff is, in general, pretty tight with each other, so it's more like hanging out with your friends and playing a game than hooking up with randoms on the internet.
(YMMV of course; these are internet "friendships" formed on the "job" at a site about a "children's card game". :rofl:)
tl;dr
I don't think I'd play in a non-modfia game, because I have issues.
Yes, but sometimes you gotta take the initiative and do things independently from your team, for the greater good.
Because if you do it again without a very good reason I will nominate you for the blacklist, and that's not something I have ever even CONSIDERED doing before.
I second this to the fullest. What happened with hansanator is something that should have never happened. I would go back and list everything wrong with the claim, but I don't to be that much of an ass.
@hansanator:
We have several players telling you what you did was wrong and yet you're still on your high horse saying what you did was either correct or something that would have helped the Town. That could not be further from the truth. Please listen to what the other community member are telling you. They would not point you in the wrong direction after a game has completed.
Actually, I just started playing a few months ago, as did a few other newbies, and while we get the occasional "you suck noob" comments, I don't take much offense because... Well it's ok to suck as a noob. Heck, some people suck sometimes even if they have been playing awhile.
Additionally, I only knew a few people from the Club Flamingo thread, but I still don't feel "mistreated".
Actually, I just started playing a few months ago, as did a few other newbies, and while we get the occasional "you suck noob" comments, I don't take much offense because... Well it's ok to suck as a noob. Heck, some people suck sometimes even if they have been playing awhile.
Less that, more just, like... I've noticed there's a lot of pressure to conform to the established way of thinking. If you don't play a certain way (note: this doesn't refer to good vs bad play, just different styles of doing things), use the right terms the right way, and in general act according to the prescribed metagame, there's a definite sense of "our way or the highway" that you're going to get hit with. kaburi gave a decent example of this a few posts above. It's part of the vague baggage I mentioned with the Mafia forum that doesn't really apply as much to Modfia.
@Teia, perhaps I am less self-conscious/aware, but I haven't noticed it personally. When I misuse terms or aren't familiar with theory, I find most people are willing and eager to help out. YMMV but I think the mafia community is pretty decent here.
@hansanator:
We have several players telling you what you did was wrong and yet you're still on your high horse saying what you did was either correct or something that would have helped the Town. That could not be further from the truth. Please listen to what the other community member are telling you. They would not point you in the wrong direction after a game has completed.
I'm sorry if I came off as arrogant; I was just frustrated that everyone seemed to be blaming the whole town loss on me when I feel that is not the case. I suppose I influenced one mislynch, even though I didn't intend to, but I also think that my death should have cleared several people. By no means did I create a situation where the town could not win.
I guess people are not wrong to be frustrated at me, but it's preposterous for them to blame everything on me. The town as an entity is at fault as well.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
@Hans, you STILL haven't explained your plan. Also, how did you "clear" anyone? Your claim was patently false, and provided an easy opening for sum to jump on your wagon without blame. You know you want to try to AVOID that, right?
hans: It's not fair to blame the whole town loss on you. But you ****ing over day 1 so badly meant that the town entered day 2 having lost a full third of its number for no real gain, and that's a disadvantage that's very hard to come back from. Less disruptive play would've meant a higher (read: nonzero) chance of lynching scum, plus more solid content to work with. And potentially one less dead townie even if we did mislynch day 1, since we might not have seen a townie get vigged if wires weren't getting crossed every which way.
Again, I don't care if someone plays badly, even if it winds up being a serious detriment to their faction. That's fine. It's a learning experience. What I care about is you acting as if your play was significantly better than it really was, dismissing others as being "difficult," and stating an intention to repeat these kinds of shenanigans in the future.
@hansanator:
We have several players telling you what you did was wrong and yet you're still on your high horse saying what you did was either correct or something that would have helped the Town. That could not be further from the truth. Please listen to what the other community member are telling you. They would not point you in the wrong direction after a game has completed.
I'm sorry if I came off as arrogant; I was just frustrated that everyone seemed to be blaming the whole town loss on me when I feel that is not the case. I suppose I influenced one mislynch, even though I didn't intend to, but I also think that my death should have cleared several people. By no means did I create a situation where the town could not win.
I guess people are not wrong to be frustrated at me, but it's preposterous for them to blame everything on me. The town as an entity is at fault as well.
I agree with what Teia said Re: It's not your fault alone.
Next time take a little more time and think about what you are claiming. If you need to go and check other games on this site so that you may see what more believable claims are on this site. Your claim here was so obviously fake that everyone could have simply voted you without reason and no one would have suffered the consequences because the Scum team has the out of "False claiming Town is not my fault."
While your play did hinder Town it was not your fault that the Cop got Vig'd that Night and the Vig extinguished his only shot.
The only real advise to give here is this: Be mindful of how you play Mafia in a community that you may not know.
Void, Ria and Gerrard's Mom: Hahaha, I feel so much better about my play after reading the Scumchat, Guys.
I think the difference in my understanding of the game was orders of magnitude difference between days 1 and 2, as I caught on to what everyone was looking for and was able to fine tune what I was saying to make more of an impact.
I also need to be a little honest with everyone - I was faking 95% of my noobness. I didn't, and still don't, know a ton of the jargon, but that's all stuff I can (and did) look up on my own. All my true noob questions went to Megiddo. I even sent Meggido a PM to this effect:
Quote from Jay13x »
Oh me oh my... I'm justa poor defenseless Jay13x. Can you all wise men explain the ways of this confusin' world to little ol' me?
Thanks for starting this, it's a lot of fun.
This was legitimately my first mafia game, but I realized regardless of whether you are town or scum, job number one is to convince everyone else you are town. Most of my 'obv town' moves were deliberate and calculated. I even deliberately misrepresented my ability a little bit and pretended to misunderstand it to give you all the impression I thought it would protect me from 'moves' and to stir up confusion among the scum, because it was something they couldn't ask for clarification on without giving themselves away. Seeing how much debate went on about it behind the scenes, I think it was a good decision.
I was not, however, playing at the level of using my reads to sway scum one way or another, and I learned quite a bit to improve my play through the scumchat.
Hans, regardless of whether or not your play was a good idea, I learned quite a bit from the fallout from it, especially after day one, and it made me a better player come day two.
Wheat, we're BFFs now.
I think I learned a lot from this game, and I at least had fun playing with everyone. Thanks!
I'm sorry if I came off as arrogant; I was just frustrated that everyone seemed to be blaming the whole town loss on me when I feel that is not the case. I suppose I influenced one mislynch, even though I didn't intend to, but I also think that my death should have cleared several people. By no means did I create a situation where the town could not win.
I guess people are not wrong to be frustrated at me, but it's preposterous for them to blame everything on me. The town as an entity is at fault as well.
No one is blaming you for the whole loss.
But it's a bit frustrating for us when you refuse to realize that what you did was wrong.
Actually, I just started playing a few months ago, as did a few other newbies, and while we get the occasional "you suck noob" comments, I don't take much offense because... Well it's ok to suck as a noob. Heck, some people suck sometimes even if they have been playing awhile.
Additionally, I only knew a few people from the Club Flamingo thread, but I still don't feel "mistreated".
I think you missed the point of my statement; I'm saying that any "you suck noob" statements are unwelcoming. I understand that this is the internet and people are jerks, but just because that's a part of the culture doesn't make it right. It makes it so that outsiders feel like they aren't welcome to join. It's not about not taking offense, it's about not being offensive.
Less that, more just, like... I've noticed there's a lot of pressure to conform to the established way of thinking. If you don't play a certain way (note: this doesn't refer to good vs bad play, just different styles of doing things), use the right terms the right way, and in general act according to the prescribed metagame, there's a definite sense of "our way or the highway" that you're going to get hit with. kaburi gave a decent example of this a few posts above. It's part of the vague baggage I mentioned with the Mafia forum that doesn't really apply as much to Modfia.
I like the phrase "vague baggage". It's the best way to sum up my feelings. There is a perception that the mafia forum is a fraterity that you have to be invited into, and that if you don't conform to their idea of what a "mafia player" is you're going to get hazed until you get the message that your kind isn't welcome there. I'm 32--I stopped having the patience to deal with that **** a decade ago.
I guess people are not wrong to be frustrated at me, but it's preposterous for them to blame everything on me. The town as an entity is at fault as well.
I don't care if someone plays badly, even if it winds up being a serious detriment to their faction. That's fine. It's a learning experience. What I care about is you acting as if your play was significantly better than it really was, dismissing others as being "difficult," and stating an intention to repeat these kinds of shenanigans in the future.
/barn this as hard as humanly possible. If I barned this any harder I'd be Amish.
But it's a bit frustrating for us when you refuse to realize that what you did was wrong.
/barn this as well
-=-=-
In the end, this was a real learning experience. I'm not sure I'll play the next modfia, but I'd definitely do another one in the future, and I'll at least spectate the next one. I think I just need some space.
It's not you, it's me.
Sometimes two people just grow ap...
Now we've crossed the conclusion threshold and entered the land of romcom cliches.
@Kaburi, perhaps, but the Club Flamingo thread that I'm used to has its share of mean people, so maybe that's why I don't take it personally.
And again, I feel like I was more or less welcomed. "Conforming" just means recognizing the game here. Hans is a perfect example of someone choosing not to "conform".
I read spec chat, I was off my game at the beginning of the last Day because I actually screwed up the end of the previous one and was a little edgy about it, but the pressure never really materialized. I really didn't want to get lynched because I didn't think ria cared enough to endgame someone else the next day. I feel that I deserve a pat on the back for actually reading through this whole game and BV's MM7 to blind them with work though.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Second, how could you possibly think lying about your role and purposefully trying to get lynched was useful to the town?
When you try to spell his name out, do you have to let it LnGrrrR?
Do you have to, do you have to, do you have to let it LnGrrrR?
Oh yeah I forgot that I wanted to touch on this.
Never falseclaim as town ever.
I did make mention of this case in the Scum Chat. The thing I didn't mention was that it was my plan to add a bad portion to the case so that Ria and yourself could be bus me into oblivion and get the Town cred to ride it out. I didn't mention this in the Scum Chat because I wanted to make sure you two had as natural of a reaction that you could.
I'm not sure how well that play benefited us, but Ria and yourself pulled it off. Either way, job well done!
@KoolKoal:
Perhaps you would like me to Mentor you in an upcoming Basic? We both might learn something in the process.
Oh well.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
There is a very good chance that I will disregard this comment. I am still going to fakeclaim whenever I see it necessary, regardless of which team I am on. Fakeclaiming as town is awesome and it (usually) works great!
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
You need to learn when to fakeclaim as Town. Go read WWE Mafia and read Voxxicus' posts. See will you how a falseclaim gambit is suppose to work.
But yeah, han's falseclaim was awful and cost us our Day 1 and a lot of information.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Also, I fail to see the correlation between myself and the death of both Iso and Arcadic.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
You completely blew day one for the town, practically handing the game to the scum. What on earth did you possibly hope to accomplish? Were you intentionally trying to throw the game? Because if so, you succeeded spectacularly.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
—hansanator, mafia master
His mass softclaim idea was to see if anyone claimed something against the setup, since I'm guessing he knew about the exploit in the role PM images (hence why Megs had to break the links to the role PM images and rehost them). As for the rest of his play, god only knows.
Either way, let's not have hans in future Modfias if there's open space for non-mods/exmods. I'm serious about this. I can accept bad play. But hans is being belligerent in his belief that the problem was with other players, not him (with the stated intention to engage in similar play in the future), and as such he's liable to repeat this kind of performance.
I won't be playing, and I'm not sure what the interest level is... so I guess we'll just let it lie until the mods get the itch.
If interest levels are low, we could just run with the Limited cards Mafia that was discussed before this game.
But I have no problem just always hosting these :rofl:.
*full disclosure: I didn't want to go public.
As far as the games being public goes, I don't mind this and future Modfias being public, but I'd prefer if previous ones stayed in the mod lounge (as opposed to moving them out into the open or whatever). This seems to be the prevailing attitude anyway, but whatever, just stating my opinion because why not.
Fair enough, then. It would be better getting fresh new blood into the subforum, but okay. :/
I almost said marinara.
Let's be real here. Your plan was to get the mafia to show they were afraid to lynch you. There are so many problems with this.
1. Only people the town already suspect are going to be told they need to hammer you. So if someone confirms themselves by refusing to hammer you, the town was already on track to catch them without the gambit.
2. Anyone who isn't being voted for can basically sit back and watch your gambit without losing any town cred.
3. A smart scum player will realize, if they're forced to hammer you, that they have no choice to go along with it and hammer as if they're an unafraid townie and hope you are bluffing. Then you get hammered, and the scum player gets town cred for being willing to hammer you.
Are you starting to understand how bad your plan was yet?
In a similar vein, I have a full-time job now, and Modfia's a stronger pull than normal Mafia, so it's easier for me to make time for.
Not sure if I will be playing next one
I understand busy schedules.
The offer is on
the tableITT and will remain open should you want to cash in on the offer.IT WAS NOT PSYCHIC POWERS ISO GODDAMMIT.
How is it good for the town.
Wheat_Grinder would like this post a second time but he only has one like to give.
Though technically I do have a second in the form of The_Minstrel but I can't remember his login info.
It ensured the lynch of town and made us all hate you.
You mailed your fission.
How did this help the town.
And yes you do have to answer
And yes those answers better be really good
Because if you do it again without a very good reason I will nominate you for the blacklist, and that's not something I have ever even CONSIDERED doing before.
Modfias exist as a team-building exercise. It's a way to get to know the people we work with in a context that isn't our own respective subs, and to interact on a more personal level.
Except Iso. With him, it's a way for us to see the wild Iso in its native habitat.
I hinted at (okay, lost my temper and shouted) my opinion in the game, but I want to clarify. I'm taking my mod hat off; this is just kaburi, random dude, and is in no way representative of the opinions of the rest of the staff.
I know for me, personally, I have absurd social anxiety, and the main Mafia community comes off as very elitist. In general, modfias skew more towards inexperienced players, and the main mafia community doesn't come off as newbie-friendly. That's part of why I blew my top in this game; I don't deal well with being judged, and I feel like the mafia community is very judgey of outsiders who want to come in.
One of the things Void said in his back and forth with Teia really struck me as symptomatic of this issue: "you should read the terms of our forum". (Emphasis mine, plus paraphrasing because too lazy to quote)
I was ready to go off on him about that post, but I PMed megs first to make sure that it wouldn't get me modkilled and he asked me to hold off until postgame to have this conversation. I'm fairly certain it would have earned me my first infraction; that's how upset I was.
I feel like if I went in the mafia forum and joined a game today, there would be active disdain from the other players. I would completely expect them to say "who the **** are you, thinking just because you have a bold name you can come play in our sandbox?" I was one of the most vocally against bringing the modfias public because I'm frankly afraid of the mafia community.
Now, to your credit, I'm afraid of everything.
This is also a factor. Like I said earlier, modfias are a team building exercise. I don't think I would enjoy playing with a bunch of random strangers; the staff is, in general, pretty tight with each other, so it's more like hanging out with your friends and playing a game than hooking up with randoms on the internet.
(YMMV of course; these are internet "friendships" formed on the "job" at a site about a "children's card game". :rofl:)
tl;dr
I don't think I'd play in a non-modfia game, because I have issues.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
I second this to the fullest. What happened with hansanator is something that should have never happened. I would go back and list everything wrong with the claim, but I don't to be that much of an ass.
@hansanator:
We have several players telling you what you did was wrong and yet you're still on your high horse saying what you did was either correct or something that would have helped the Town. That could not be further from the truth. Please listen to what the other community member are telling you. They would not point you in the wrong direction after a game has completed.
Actually, I just started playing a few months ago, as did a few other newbies, and while we get the occasional "you suck noob" comments, I don't take much offense because... Well it's ok to suck as a noob. Heck, some people suck sometimes even if they have been playing awhile.
Additionally, I only knew a few people from the Club Flamingo thread, but I still don't feel "mistreated".
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Less that, more just, like... I've noticed there's a lot of pressure to conform to the established way of thinking. If you don't play a certain way (note: this doesn't refer to good vs bad play, just different styles of doing things), use the right terms the right way, and in general act according to the prescribed metagame, there's a definite sense of "our way or the highway" that you're going to get hit with. kaburi gave a decent example of this a few posts above. It's part of the vague baggage I mentioned with the Mafia forum that doesn't really apply as much to Modfia.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'm sorry if I came off as arrogant; I was just frustrated that everyone seemed to be blaming the whole town loss on me when I feel that is not the case. I suppose I influenced one mislynch, even though I didn't intend to, but I also think that my death should have cleared several people. By no means did I create a situation where the town could not win.
I guess people are not wrong to be frustrated at me, but it's preposterous for them to blame everything on me. The town as an entity is at fault as well.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Again, I don't care if someone plays badly, even if it winds up being a serious detriment to their faction. That's fine. It's a learning experience. What I care about is you acting as if your play was significantly better than it really was, dismissing others as being "difficult," and stating an intention to repeat these kinds of shenanigans in the future.
I agree with what Teia said Re: It's not your fault alone.
Next time take a little more time and think about what you are claiming. If you need to go and check other games on this site so that you may see what more believable claims are on this site. Your claim here was so obviously fake that everyone could have simply voted you without reason and no one would have suffered the consequences because the Scum team has the out of "False claiming Town is not my fault."
While your play did hinder Town it was not your fault that the Cop got Vig'd that Night and the Vig extinguished his only shot.
The only real advise to give here is this: Be mindful of how you play Mafia in a community that you may not know.
I think the difference in my understanding of the game was orders of magnitude difference between days 1 and 2, as I caught on to what everyone was looking for and was able to fine tune what I was saying to make more of an impact.
I also need to be a little honest with everyone - I was faking 95% of my noobness. I didn't, and still don't, know a ton of the jargon, but that's all stuff I can (and did) look up on my own. All my true noob questions went to Megiddo. I even sent Meggido a PM to this effect:
This was legitimately my first mafia game, but I realized regardless of whether you are town or scum, job number one is to convince everyone else you are town. Most of my 'obv town' moves were deliberate and calculated. I even deliberately misrepresented my ability a little bit and pretended to misunderstand it to give you all the impression I thought it would protect me from 'moves' and to stir up confusion among the scum, because it was something they couldn't ask for clarification on without giving themselves away. Seeing how much debate went on about it behind the scenes, I think it was a good decision.
I was not, however, playing at the level of using my reads to sway scum one way or another, and I learned quite a bit to improve my play through the scumchat.
Hans, regardless of whether or not your play was a good idea, I learned quite a bit from the fallout from it, especially after day one, and it made me a better player come day two.
Wheat, we're BFFs now.
I think I learned a lot from this game, and I at least had fun playing with everyone. Thanks!
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No one is blaming you for the whole loss.
But it's a bit frustrating for us when you refuse to realize that what you did was wrong.
I think you missed the point of my statement; I'm saying that any "you suck noob" statements are unwelcoming. I understand that this is the internet and people are jerks, but just because that's a part of the culture doesn't make it right. It makes it so that outsiders feel like they aren't welcome to join. It's not about not taking offense, it's about not being offensive.
I like the phrase "vague baggage". It's the best way to sum up my feelings. There is a perception that the mafia forum is a fraterity that you have to be invited into, and that if you don't conform to their idea of what a "mafia player" is you're going to get hazed until you get the message that your kind isn't welcome there. I'm 32--I stopped having the patience to deal with that **** a decade ago.
...you guess we're not wrong to be frustrated?
/barn this as hard as humanly possible. If I barned this any harder I'd be Amish.
/barn this as well
-=-=-
In the end, this was a real learning experience. I'm not sure I'll play the next modfia, but I'd definitely do another one in the future, and I'll at least spectate the next one. I think I just need some space.
It's not you, it's me.
Sometimes two people just grow ap...
Now we've crossed the conclusion threshold and entered the land of romcom cliches.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
And again, I feel like I was more or less welcomed. "Conforming" just means recognizing the game here. Hans is a perfect example of someone choosing not to "conform".
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!