I like how Thor basically just rehashed a bunch of points that I sufficiently rebutted and called it a "case". I could have sworn reading was a requirement to play Mafia - guess not!
"I like how Thor rehashed a bunch of points and called them a case, after being asked specifically to do so.
I also "rebutted" them insomuch as I said I disagreed, Thor offered counterpoints to all my disagreements, and then I was like, 'nyah, I disagreed once, you're not allowed to use them against me anymore!' "
Still need rope over here.
I'd like the people who actually have a town read on Iso to speak up at this stage.
Reasons would also be awesome to hear.
And I "rehashed" my mythical and magical "points based case" when asked by someone to restate my case.
I mean, seriously, how fething bizarre. It's amazing you all haven't lynched me yet since I am basically just making up new ways to play the game of mafia and acting like it's noraml.
Hint: he is busted scum resorting to ad hom in a desperate hope to survive. I think it's pretty obvious.
In a related note - I'm still (still) waiting for you to justify why I should have ignored Vi's commentary on me. You seem to suggest it's scummy that I didn't, yet have failed to express what the town thought process would be to ignore it even though I explained a (seemingly obvious, in my opinion) reason that town should not.
I'm not saying you should have ignored Vi. I was wondering why you didn't. It was a serious question founded on the statement you made - and subsequently <snipped> about "likes to avoid discussing things about him" when you compared your playstyle to Nacho. I'm not suggesting it's scummy - I'm suggesting it doesn't match with what you said about yourself.
1. The prompt? I'm not sure this is really what you're asking, but what prompted me to vote him was that I saw I could make him the biggest wagon in the game and wanted to scumhunt him. I also had the option to do so to you, so I figured it was a nice time to make a strong choice betwixt and between and see how others would react.
2. As currently stands the case has a couple of points. The core issue is how he ignored my push on him even though he claimed awareness that I was seeking a reaction from him - in other words he flat out admitted he made it hard to scumhunt him, and then claimed that should be taken as a town tell even though even other MtG players seem to grok that this is a null tell at best, and a playstyle tell in all honesty. But the lack of desire to participate in legit RVS while at the same time interacting in a meaningless way via the name discussion meant he wanted to avoid scumhunting and more specifically to avoid being scumhunted.
Then toss in the playstyle shift someone called him on (DesCouteres I think) and the way he would call me on "misreps" and then be unable to show the misreps (and yet continue to bluster suggesting he had) sprinkle in a bit of bargain pleading with me (willing to maybe townread Thor...might help if he town reads me, hint, hint...oh, he hasn't? Then I totally scum read Thor, he misreps!) and a lot of ad hom type attacks (his recent interplays with me where he tosses out his "uncountable" showings of beating me and has clearly given up scumhunting me even though he's not actually clearly calling for my lynch...which means he would think I'm town, but he's taking time to badmouth me because...y'know, that's what you do with town reads)
Mostly that is all just minor stuff though, for me the core is the reaction in RVS - it was staged and phony and is scummy/ The other stuff just makes me feel more sure I'm right.
I was working up a rather large rebuttal to your posted case on Iso, as his early posts didn't at all match up with what you were saying. He was initially arguing that your vote was RVS and he was ignoring it because it was non-intentioned. Then I came to the infamous no claim post and found what you were referencing with the acknowledgment of the "baiting for a reaction". As I mentioned before, I already did not like this post because he didn't claim at L-2, and it's at this juncture that I begrudgingly concede I understand now what you saw in him.
It should be noted that Iso claims he is "unable to be meta'd", so the playstyle argument you make above is relevant here. It delves into the realm of meta-WIFOM, though, if I try to guess whether Iso would make that play as scum in the first of a three-game set where he's trying to make a "good first impression", so I just won't.
I do agree with him on the theory portions of his posts regarding RVS votes and reactions - hence my vote on you - which is troubling because of the lack of reaction from him that you point out.
But then there's this post where he explains further about the lack of reaction. I remember nodding my head especially at point #2 when he made the post - the RVS seems to be a somewhat different beast here than at 'Scum from what I'm gathering.
You didn't bother to respond to that post, though, other than with this:
Oh, I just wanted an opportunity to be condescending.
So...basically when you responded to me and acted like what I had been saying had no merit and you had all these reasons to shoot it down...you were just...y'know...lying for comedic effect?
I could easily blast the rest of your post - but I want this one to be front and center right now.
A cute smilie isn't quite cutting it for me here.
I don't think you're that brilliant at being scum and that's why you get no pressure Day 1 - I think you're able to get away with this gak here for some reason.
If you could "easily blast" the rest of his post, why didn't you? Instead you chose to sarcastically retort and ad hom him/MTGS playerbase.
I'd be curious to see your actual rebuttal to that post of his.
Isn't your Vi scum case hinged on how she's reacting to presumed buddy Iso?
Don't start pulling the MtG crowd spiel of 'Player A suspects Player B, A is scummy for how they're pushing B who is town, B is townish because A is scum pushing them Catch-twenty-derp thing.
That's not why he thinks Vi is scum. Hell if I know the actual reason, but that isn't it.
This seems reasonable, until one considers the possibility that all the scum are on one side or the other.
Quote from Voxxicus 186 »
Random is random, so it's entirely possible one 'faction' could contain the entire scum team, admittedly - assuming that it'll be a 2-1 split one way or the other is faulty logic.
Do you know anything about combinatorics? Do you have a guess for what the probability is?
Even so, it's a possibility for PoE purposes.
Hm. I'm relatively sure that it's the same chance as a randomizer picking three numbers from the same set. Theoretically, it should be 16.5% overall.
I'll do a check on this tomorrow to make sure.
Wow, this is the first time I've seen OMGUS used properly. That's somewhere between amusing and sad.
Your defense is completely based around ad hom and "your case is bad and you should feel bad", so I'm just laughing over here.
Finally, correct me if I'm wrong, but your case consists solely of "you're bad, therefore you're scum". If that's correct, then please pardon me while I laugh at you calling other people bad.
...bad cases are somehow not scummy? I'm lost here.
Do you know how easy it would be for me to find you a list of stuff that can be declared "bad" without a doubt and still town?
Among them, one of my favourites is, "I used an ability on you that may or may not have had the ability to kill you and you're alive, so you're scum." (Slightly paraphrased due to how that particular game worked.)
[As for ad hom, no, you haven't -seen- ad hom yet. I don't want to go to a cross-site invitational and start flaming people I don't know. But dammit I'm tempted.
Oh, please do. That would make my life much easier.
And as a note, ad hom remains ad hom regardless of the degree.
Thought I should mention that I'm using the gimmick NeedMoreAssumptions in there. It's noted anyways after I decide to post on a no-sleep night, but...
The only things that have stuck out to me are ISO's "madscum" reaction to his wagon while also feigning casualness behind his "claim" and also Vi's snarky interaction with him (which is pretty par for the course regardless of what Vi is).
Remind me why you think Vi's scum again, given this?
I'm not saying you should have ignored Vi. I was wondering why you didn't. It was a serious question founded on the statement you made - and subsequently <snipped> about "likes to avoid discussing things about him" when you compared your playstyle to Nacho. I'm not suggesting it's scummy - I'm suggesting it doesn't match with what you said about yourself.
Voxx's analysis is itching my paranoia switch, but I'm not sure if that couldn't just be explained away by general dismissiveness. I'm dismissive of cases on me as town, it's how I react to them. Nacho does it semi-similar as I recall, he likes to avoid discussing things about him (which is usually my basis for lynching him).
So when I compared myself to Voxx and said Nacho did something "semi-similar" I really meant "I play exactly like Nacho"
Does this make sense to you?
I'm still lost - I need this dialed in. I feel like you're either intentionally misrepresenting what I said to do a really derpy attempt at making me look bad, or you honestly mixed up what I said, and are doing a really awkward scumhunt based on bad information and are acting like me being confused is a problem with my answers as opposed to your fact-checking.
I was working up a rather large rebuttal to your posted case on Iso, as his early posts didn't at all match up with what you were saying. He was initially arguing that your vote was RVS and he was ignoring it because it was non-intentioned. Then I came to the infamous no claim post and found what you were referencing with the acknowledgment of the "baiting for a reaction". As I mentioned before, I already did not like this post because he didn't claim at L-2, and it's at this juncture that I begrudgingly concede I understand now what you saw in him.
Yes, the facts have a mysterious way of falling into place for me.
It's part of my rather unusual scumhunting style.
It should be noted that Iso claims he is "unable to be meta'd", so the playstyle argument you make above is relevant here. It delves into the realm of meta-WIFOM, though, if I try to guess whether Iso would make that play as scum in the first of a three-game set where he's trying to make a "good first impression", so I just won't.
My issue is less meta-wifom, and more playstyle logic. He claimed to understand that I was scumhunting him.
His reaction was to not give me any scumhunting info.
Then he called me scummy when I complained.
It doesn't follow.
I like how Thor basically just rehashed a bunch of points that I sufficiently rebutted and called it a "case". I could have sworn reading was a requirement to play Mafia - guess not!
"I like how Thor rehashed a bunch of points and called them a case, after being asked specifically to do so.
My point is that you don't have a case because everything you listed has been sufficiently responded to.
Quote from Thor665 »
I also "rebutted" them insomuch as I said I disagreed, Thor offered counterpoints to all my disagreements, and then I was like, 'nyah, I disagreed once, you're not allowed to use them against me anymore!' "
Given that you stopped addressing specific things after I responded to them, I can only presume you can't follow up on them - ergo, rebutted.
In fact, you stopped responding to my walls in general once you realized you couldn't win the argument with me, so...keep using that appeal to self-authority, because look at how successful it's been in getting me lynched so far!
@Iso - please define how a case doesn't use points and why it is weird that I did so? I want to hear this now too.
Oh look, another misrepresentation of what I said!
Are you incapable of posting a logical, coherent, non-derisive, devoid of fallacies post based in reality? Or is that beneath your superb scumhunting abilities?
And I "rehashed" my mythical and magical "points based case" when asked by someone to restate my case.
I mean, seriously, how fething bizarre. It's amazing you all haven't lynched me yet since I am basically just making up new ways to play the game of mafia and acting like it's noraml.
Again, my point is that you don't have a case to stand on. It's been destroyed. At this point, you're saying, "Iso is scum because I say so, guys!" and hoping that your force of personality will get me lynched. I imagine the only reason you haven't been lynched for this yet is because you're somehow managing to be obviously town with it. Frankly, I was considering pushing a policy lynch on you for being such a distraction at this point that not much else is getting done. You're even more of an attention whore in Mafia than I am - that's not a good thing.
Quote from Thor665 »
Hint: he is busted scum resorting to ad hom in a desperate hope to survive. I think it's pretty obvious.
Lolwut? I'm pretty sure nobody has said, "Gee, Iso's ad hom sure makes me think he's town, I'm going to unvote him!" I'm also relatively certain that I've been chilling within 2-4 votes of lynch range for a while now, so pardon me for not feeling "desperate to survive" when it's obvious my lynch isn't happening.
Then I came to the infamous no claim post and found what you were referencing with the acknowledgment of the "baiting for a reaction". As I mentioned before, I already did not like this post because he didn't claim at L-2, and it's at this juncture that I begrudgingly concede I understand now what you saw in him.
As I stated, it didn't occur to me that Thor was baiting me for a reaction until after I re-read with intent to analyze my wagon.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Because I had a scum read on you at the time and didn't want you to have the potential to use what I saw as a loaded question against DYH, whom I currently have no read on (but was leaning town on at the time due to your push on him).
This really doesn't make sense. He wanted to stop me scumhunting someone else, because he thought they were town and I was asking them a loaded question to...use against them...by asking them their opinion about how he played.
I have been asked in this thread by multiple people about;
How Nacho plays.
How DGB plays.
How Fate plays.
A lot of people have done the same with other players. It's pretty normal.
Iso didn't jump in once to try to save me from those "loaded" questions.
This is all bollocks, he was just feeling pressured - y'know, like he says scum always do during RVS. In any case, he was certainly *unhappy* that I was scumhunting him in a rather normal way that he had no issue with at any other time in the thread except when it involved him.
1. Given that I had absolutely no motive to be curious about your random vote on me, this point falls short of its mark.
My vote was indicated as making you the largest wagon and that I *chose* to make you the largest wagon.
I guess you could have absolutely no curiosity on it at all - but if that's true it's rather odd since it was an aggressive move by me to get you lynched.
Seeing as votes are random in RVS (hence the clever name!)
No votes are random, that's actually the point. If we believed this to be true we should use a random number generator for our votes and then just stare at each other.
votes such as my "your mom" exchange with DYH, I have (yes, have, not had) absolutely no reason to believe your initial vote on me was anything short of random and thus not worth responding to. Hell, more often than not, I ignore the first handful of votes on me that AREN'T in RVS.
Even if I were to buy that you believe the best pro-town action is to not pay attention to RVS votes even though you understand they're there to get reactions and scumhunt (which, by the by, further proof they're not random) - why did you act shocked that I was bothered I hadn't gotten a reaction out of you and proceeded to pressure more to get one? Indeed, you took exception to me having issues with you playing in a way that denied providing me a read. I don't get why that was strange to you - you're still doing it, it's like, what a shock, Thor was scumhunting! What a strange fellow!
I'm pretty sure "you're wrong because I say so" doesn't cut it. Once again, I'm not accusing you of being scum, but feel free to keep misrepresenting me, as it is demonstrating my point - that you are playing poorly.
This is apparently what he says to town reads. Because, y'know, when you think town is voting you, the optimal response is to try to downplay their skill and refuse to address them.
I know when I think town is voting me I don't ask for their reasons and work with them logically and present alternatives (I would be hard pressed to even describe Iso's reads right now - and we're past page 10).
No, I just recognize that I'm not as good as town. My individual accomplishments as scum are pretty impressive - but we can compare Mafia Smurfs later. There's no disconnect here (as you go on to say later), as I don't believe I've been scummy. But when I'm scum, I'm very rarely the first wagon of the Day, let alone the lynch.
He was complaining that people thought he was bad as scum because of ther reasons for voting him.
He doesn't think he's done anything scummy.
He doesn't see this as a disconnect.
If he hadn't done anything scummy, then what are the 'bad scum scumtells' people think he's done?
Hint - those are called "bad cases"
But he doesn't phrase it like that.
Because he knows they're right.
And that is the wall o' awesome Thor was scared to address.
Are you incapable of posting a logical, coherent, non-derisive, devoid of fallacies post based in reality? Or is that beneath your superb scumhunting abilities?
Again, my point is that you don't have a case to stand on.
I don't have a case you agree with.
Oddly I've *never* had a scum agree with my case on him. it's weird, it's always just the worst case ever made, and then they flip scum.
I imagine the only reason you haven't been lynched for this yet is because you're somehow managing to be obviously town with it.
Fascinating that I can push the worst cases ever made, misrep constatly, lie, dodge, cheat, steal, and kick little puppies, and still be obv. town.
Ruddy amazing.
And me thinking you're scum totally locks down the entire thread, and if only I'd stop you'd do all sorts of wonderful scumhunting.
I'm also relatively certain that I've been chilling within 2-4 votes of lynch range for a while now, so pardon me for not feeling "desperate to survive" when it's obvious my lynch isn't happening.
Give me a bit of time, I think DYH i going to bus you shortly.
As I stated, it didn't occur to me that Thor was baiting me for a reaction until after I re-read with intent to analyze my wagon.
Yup, because when someone is trying to get a reaction out of you in RVS you need a re-read to figure out that what they wanted was to get a reaction out of you in RVS.
Because I had a scum read on you at the time and didn't want you to have the potential to use what I saw as a loaded question against DYH, whom I currently have no read on (but was leaning town on at the time due to your push on him).
This really doesn't make sense. He wanted to stop me scumhunting someone else, because he thought they were town and I was asking them a loaded question to...use against them...by asking them their opinion about how he played.
I have been asked in this thread by multiple people about;
How Nacho plays.
How DGB plays.
How Fate plays.
A lot of people have done the same with other players. It's pretty normal.
Iso didn't jump in once to try to save me from those "loaded" questions.
This is all bollocks, he was just feeling pressured - y'know, like he says scum always do during RVS. In any case, he was certainly *unhappy* that I was scumhunting him in a rather normal way that he had no issue with at any other time in the thread except when it involved him.
I can not comprehend the fact that you are this dense.
Please explain to me how the people asking you about other people's playstyles used loaded questions.
1. Given that I had absolutely no motive to be curious about your random vote on me, this point falls short of its mark.
My vote was indicated as making you the largest wagon and that I *chose* to make you the largest wagon.
I guess you could have absolutely no curiosity on it at all - but if that's true it's rather odd since it was an aggressive move by me to get you lynched.
Seeing as there were what, 2, 3 votes on me at the most at the point following your vote, please explain to me why I should have had any reason to believe you were intending to start a wagon on me, given the literal interpretation of your post as "I have voted you so now you have more votes than anyone else, therefore I have made you the largest wagon", and that you had serious intent in pushing my wagon thereafter? ESPECIALLY given that we were in RVS?
Seeing as votes are random in RVS (hence the clever name!)
No votes are random, that's actually the point. If we believed this to be true we should use a random number generator for our votes and then just stare at each other.
My point is that the nature of votes in RVS is non-serious, until somebody attempts to break RVS.
votes such as my "your mom" exchange with DYH, I have (yes, have, not had) absolutely no reason to believe your initial vote on me was anything short of random and thus not worth responding to. Hell, more often than not, I ignore the first handful of votes on me that AREN'T in RVS.
Even if I were to buy that you believe the best pro-town action is to not pay attention to RVS votes even though you understand they're there to get reactions and scumhunt (which, by the by, further proof they're not random) - why did you act shocked that I was bothered I hadn't gotten a reaction out of you and proceeded to pressure more to get one?
See my above questions regarding your initial push on me.
Quote from Thor665 »
Indeed, you took exception to me having issues with you playing in a way that denied providing me a read. I don't get why that was strange to you - you're still doing it, it's like, what a shock, Thor was scumhunting! What a strange fellow!
Why should I care what your read of me is in RVS if I'm town?
I'm pretty sure "you're wrong because I say so" doesn't cut it. Once again, I'm not accusing you of being scum, but feel free to keep misrepresenting me, as it is demonstrating my point - that you are playing poorly.
This is apparently what he says to town reads. Because, y'know, when you think town is voting you, the optimal response is to try to downplay their skill and refuse to address them.
I've addressed everything you've said and that doesn't change the fact that you're playing awfully. Additionally, that doesn't address the actual point - that you can't respond to my counterpoints sufficiently. Which you have proven with crap responses like this one - which, incidentally, are scummy for talking around me and not to me.
Quote from Thor665 »
I know when I think town is voting me I don't ask for their reasons and work with them logically and present alternatives (I would be hard pressed to even describe Iso's reads right now - and we're past page 10).
Well that's no surprise, given that you've demonstrated on numerous occasions that you're not actually reading my posts. As for the first part - why?
No, I just recognize that I'm not as good as town. My individual accomplishments as scum are pretty impressive - but we can compare Mafia Smurfs later. There's no disconnect here (as you go on to say later), as I don't believe I've been scummy. But when I'm scum, I'm very rarely the first wagon of the Day, let alone the lynch.
He was complaining that people thought he was bad as scum because of ther reasons for voting him.
He doesn't think he's done anything scummy.
He doesn't see this as a disconnect.
I don't think I've done anything scummy beyond my initial response to Cyan, which was obviously self-conscious because it directly addressed the way I am playing in this game. What I'm saying is that people were dogpiling votes on to me like Christmas came early and I vezok'd or something. So many votes on me so early as scum would suggest I'm a bad scum player. Given that people were voting me so frenetically so early, it is implied that they think I am scum (scum on the wagon aside, which is a given) and that I am bad enough as scum to be "caught" so early.
I feel like I can't state how bad you are at Mafia enough. Maybe your problem is English. Is it your first language?
Are you incapable of posting a logical, coherent, non-derisive, devoid of fallacies post based in reality? Or is that beneath your superb scumhunting abilities?
I guess so, what a wonderful factual rebuttal.
Now that I've condescended you some more, the answer you're looking for is that I was referring to what you call "points" and a "case" in quotes because they don't even resemble what you're referring to them as. Yeah, in some bizarro alternate universe where misrepresentation is fact and logic is hated, congratulations, you've created a case on me. However, we live in this reality - I suggest you catch up.
Again, my point is that you don't have a case to stand on.
I don't have a case you agree with.
Oddly I've *never* had a scum agree with my case on him. it's weird, it's always just the worst case ever made, and then they flip scum.
Of course I don't agree with your case - I'm town. Therefore, your case is flawed.
I imagine the only reason you haven't been lynched for this yet is because you're somehow managing to be obviously town with it.
Fascinating that I can push the worst cases ever made, misrep constatly, lie, dodge, cheat, steal, and kick little puppies, and still be obv. town.
Ruddy amazing.
I'm shocked, myself.
Quote from Thor665 »
And me thinking you're scum totally locks down the entire thread, and if only I'd stop you'd do all sorts of wonderful scumhunting.
I'm also relatively certain that I've been chilling within 2-4 votes of lynch range for a while now, so pardon me for not feeling "desperate to survive" when it's obvious my lynch isn't happening.
Give me a bit of time, I think DYH i going to bus you shortly.
I've never been a townie with scumbuddies before. I'm excited.
As I stated, it didn't occur to me that Thor was baiting me for a reaction until after I re-read with intent to analyze my wagon.
Yup, because when someone is trying to get a reaction out of you in RVS you need a re-read to figure out that what they wanted was to get a reaction out of you in RVS.
Since you're going to continue to feign ignorance of MTGS RVS meta after it's been explained to you dozens of times (obvious hyperbole, but feel free to take this out of context or whatever it is that you do like with everything else I say), let me ask you this: What do I, as a player who does not know your alignment, in RVS, have to gain from responding to a vote from you that I perceive as baseless/random/what have you?
Quote from Thor665 »
And that is the wall o' awesome Thor was scared to address.
I didn't see any actual addressing there - merely you restating your skewed version of reality ad nauseum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Anyone - who thinks they can describe any of Iso's reads right now?
I can!
Though frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if people forgot who I was even voting for at this point due to the overwhelming amount of walls of garbage they would have to wade through in my posts, courtesy of the quotes from your posts in my own.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Please explain to me how the people asking you about other people's playstyles used loaded questions.
I don't think they did, because I think it's normal to ask other people about what they think of another persons habits and playstyles.
Why - do you now agree with this stance?
Seeing as there were what, 2, 3 votes on me at the most at the point following your vote, please explain to me why I should have had any reason to believe you were intending to start a wagon on me, given the literal interpretation of your post as "I have voted you so now you have more votes than anyone else, therefore I have made you the largest wagon", and that you had serious intent in pushing my wagon thereafter? ESPECIALLY given that we were in RVS?
Well...I would think my open claims to "start a wagon on you" could probably be taken as a clue that I intended to start a wagon on you.
I was being pretty subtle, but if you read between the lines I think that comes through.
Since, I sort of openly announced it loudly and had also announced that I was out of RVS.
My point is that the nature of votes in RVS is non-serious, until somebody attempts to break RVS.
The presumed nature is unserious. None of them really are though.
At the point I was voting you I was openly claiming both seriousness and intent for lynch.
Why should I care what your read of me is in RVS if I'm town?
Because town doesn't win by being mislynched last I checked.
But, yes, I understand you were intentionally acting in the way you think town should react.
That said, regardless of how much you "cared" you didn't act in a pro-town manner and acted in a pro-scum manner.
Additionally, that doesn't address the actual point - that you can't respond to my counterpoints sufficiently. Which you have proven with crap responses like this one - which, incidentally, are scummy for talking around me and not to me.
Name one point of yours I haven't addressed?
I'll answer it with a quote.
C'mon, this will be great, you'll be able to catch me in a lie!
I know when I think town is voting me I don't ask for their reasons and work with them logically and present alternatives (I would be hard pressed to even describe Iso's reads right now - and we're past page 10).
Well that's no surprise, given that you've demonstrated on numerous occasions that you're not actually reading my posts. As for the first part - why?
The 'first part' is...me sarcastically claiming that what you're doing is pro-town? I dunno 'why' on that one, it seems pro-scum to me and I'd never do it and was mocking you for doing it because I think it shows that you're scum and are faking your reads.
So many votes on me so early as scum would suggest I'm a bad scum player. Given that people were voting me so frenetically so early, it is implied that they think I am scum (scum on the wagon aside, which is a given) and that I am bad enough as scum to be "caught" so early.
How many of them were voting you for that catch?
because I don't recall many.
I don't think I can recall 2.
Now that I've condescended you some more, the answer you're looking for is that I was referring to what you call "points" and a "case" in quotes because they don't even resemble what you're referring to them as. Yeah, in some bizarro alternate universe where misrepresentation is fact and logic is hated, congratulations, you've created a case on me. However, we live in this reality - I suggest you catch up.
My points are factual.
What you disagree on are the opinions I've drawn from those facts.
None of those are misreps, because that's not how misreps work.
You haven't disproven the facts (you certainly haven't quoted anything yet and said 'lie!' and you know you can't.
Other than that all you have offered is your take as to why you did what you did, and I have shown why I believe it to be logically nonsensical to suggest you were behaving that way.
I will admit, maybe my misrep is presuming you used logic - but I feel that's actually a legit stance to take and expect. You then say "Thor didn't know what I really meant and was thinking, and thus he's misrepping" which is silly.
Since you're going to continue to feign ignorance of MTGS RVS meta after it's been explained to you dozens of times (obvious hyperbole, but feel free to take this out of context or whatever it is that you do like with everything else I say),
Yep, because when you use hyperbole it is weird if I react to it.
let me ask you this: What do I, as a player who does not know your alignment, in RVS, have to gain from responding to a vote from you that I perceive as baseless/random/what have you?
Learning my alignment?
I might as well ask you 'what do you ever hope to learn from any interaction in RVS?"
The entire point of RVS is to force interactions to start learning alignments.
If everyone played the way you're saying we're supposed to everyone would vote once, stare at each other refusing to react, and then eventually the day would end and we'd all rely on PRs.
If everyone played the CrAzY way that Thor does we would have lots of interactions and wagons to assess.
I didn't see any actual addressing there - merely you restating your skewed version of reality ad nauseum.
Well...I quoted your comments, and then I offered my thoughts on them, occasionally noting evidence, or meta theory, or explaining why I found the logic poor.
Please explain to me how the people asking you about other people's playstyles used loaded questions.
I don't think they did, because I think it's normal to ask other people about what they think of another persons habits and playstyles.
Why - do you now agree with this stance?
If they didn't, then it's not comparable. You are admitting to strawmanning the point.
Seeing as there were what, 2, 3 votes on me at the most at the point following your vote, please explain to me why I should have had any reason to believe you were intending to start a wagon on me, given the literal interpretation of your post as "I have voted you so now you have more votes than anyone else, therefore I have made you the largest wagon", and that you had serious intent in pushing my wagon thereafter? ESPECIALLY given that we were in RVS?
Well...I would think my open claims to "start a wagon on you" could probably be taken as a clue that I intended to start a wagon on you.
I was being pretty subtle, but if you read between the lines I think that comes through.
Since, I sort of openly announced it loudly and had also announced that I was out of RVS.
Gee, let's take a look at the post where you voted me:
By doing this I make the largest wagon and also *chose* to do it instead of voting DYH
Sheep me.
I also do support the DGB expy lynch, but I always support a DGB expy lynch.
With fire!
Someone should make that one bigger so I can choose it over ISO for more lulz.
Why haven't we had a lynch yet?
This site is so slow.
None of this reads as serious, at all, regardless of what you said prior to it about being out of RVS. Ergo, I interpreted it as RVS shenanigans and shrugged it off.
@Anyone: Does the above post wherein Thor cast his initial vote on me read as anything but RVS joking?
My point is that the nature of votes in RVS is non-serious, until somebody attempts to break RVS.
The presumed nature is unserious. None of them really are though.
At the point I was voting you I was openly claiming both seriousness and intent for lynch.
Which you can't expect me to have known short of me being psychic.
See my above questions regarding your initial push on me.
So you thought I was scumhunting, but that I wasn't serious, and so you shouldn't give me info to respond to, and then it's odd that I wanted info?
No, I didn't think you were scumhunting. I thought that you weren't being serious. If you'll note in my SEVERAL following responses to you harping upon the fact that I did not respond to your initial vote, I made it VERY clear that I still did not believe your vote was a serious one.
Why should I care what your read of me is in RVS if I'm town?
1. Because town doesn't win by being mislynched last I checked.
2. But, yes, I understand you were intentionally acting in the way you think town should react.
3. That said, regardless of how much you "cared" you didn't act in a pro-town manner and acted in a pro-scum manner.
1. And why should that matter to me if I'm town and confident I won't be mislynched? Additionally, this still is moot to the point that there was absolutely no reason for me to take your vote seriously at that point in the game.
2. Not intentional so much as out of habit - there was nothing for me to respond to, so I did not respond.
3. And this is where you're wrong. There is nothing anti-town about ignoring an RVS vote.
Additionally, that doesn't address the actual point - that you can't respond to my counterpoints sufficiently. Which you have proven with crap responses like this one - which, incidentally, are scummy for talking around me and not to me.
Name one point of yours I haven't addressed?
I'll answer it with a quote.
C'mon, this will be great, you'll be able to catch me in a lie!
I'm pretty sure I never stated that you didn't address my points, only that you didn't do so sufficiently - which is evident by the fact that we're still disagreeing on what is scummy and what is not.
I know when I think town is voting me I don't ask for their reasons and work with them logically and present alternatives (I would be hard pressed to even describe Iso's reads right now - and we're past page 10).
Well that's no surprise, given that you've demonstrated on numerous occasions that you're not actually reading my posts. As for the first part - why?
The 'first part' is...me sarcastically claiming that what you're doing is pro-town? I dunno 'why' on that one, it seems pro-scum to me and I'd never do it and was mocking you for doing it because I think it shows that you're scum and are faking your reads.
Why wouldn't a townie talk another townie down from an incorrect read instead of brushing them off? Didn't you state that only scum ignore votes?
So many votes on me so early as scum would suggest I'm a bad scum player. Given that people were voting me so frenetically so early, it is implied that they think I am scum (scum on the wagon aside, which is a given) and that I am bad enough as scum to be "caught" so early.
How many of them were voting you for that catch?
because I don't recall many.
I don't think I can recall 2.
What "catch" are you referring to? Because I can't tell if you're misrepping me or not.
Generic repetitive attack is generic and repetitive.
Respond to my posts in a manner that indicates you've actually read what you're looking at and I'll stop repeating myself on that matter. Otherwise, you're going to keep seeing that.
Now that I've condescended you some more, the answer you're looking for is that I was referring to what you call "points" and a "case" in quotes because they don't even resemble what you're referring to them as. Yeah, in some bizarro alternate universe where misrepresentation is fact and logic is hated, congratulations, you've created a case on me. However, we live in this reality - I suggest you catch up.
My points are factual.
Your points are based on some predetermined, self-contradictory idea you have about how town act and how scum act. Your points are nothing more than you taking one of these:
...and punching the red piece into the triangle hole until everyone agrees that it almost resembles a triangle.
Quote from Thor665 »
What you disagree on are the opinions I've drawn from those facts.
No. I disagree with your "facts" because you have seen it fit to twist the meaning of every single counterpoint I have responded with.
Quote from Thor665 »
None of those are misreps, because that's not how misreps work.
Oh, the person who apparently can't comprehend English is giving me a lesson on what a misrep is! Please, Professor Thor, walk me through how misrepresentation works, and explain in precise detail how you taking what I'm saying and assigning a different meaning to it is not misrepresentation.
Quote from Thor665 »
You haven't disproven the facts (you certainly haven't quoted anything yet and said 'lie!' and you know you can't.
I've pointed out every single time you've misrepresented what I've said. Do you SERIOUSLY want me to quote each time? Because I can.
Quote from Thor665 »
Other than that all you have offered is your take as to why you did what you did, and I have shown why I believe it to be logically nonsensical to suggest you were behaving that way.
Again, "because I say so" =/= logical.
Quote from Thor665 »
I will admit, maybe my misrep is presuming you used logic - but I feel that's actually a legit stance to take and expect. You then say "Thor didn't know what I really meant and was thinking, and thus he's misrepping" which is silly.
"Thor is taking what I'm saying, skewing the meaning into something I obviously don't mean based on context clues that anybody with a fundamental understanding of the English language can see, and is stating it as fact, thus he's misrepping."
Since you're going to continue to feign ignorance of MTGS RVS meta after it's been explained to you dozens of times (obvious hyperbole, but feel free to take this out of context or whatever it is that you do like with everything else I say),
Yep, because when you use hyperbole it is weird if I react to it.
It's another fine example of you misrepresenting what I'm saying when I'm making myself perfectly clear and using a literary device to drive my point home.
let me ask you this: What do I, as a player who does not know your alignment, in RVS, have to gain from responding to a vote from you that I perceive as baseless/random/what have you?
Learning my alignment?
I might as well ask you 'what do you ever hope to learn from any interaction in RVS?"
The entire point of RVS is to force interactions to start learning alignments.
If everyone played the way you're saying we're supposed to everyone would vote once, stare at each other refusing to react, and then eventually the day would end and we'd all rely on PRs.
If everyone played the CrAzY way that Thor does we would have lots of interactions and wagons to assess.
That's not how I RVS at all. But chalk up another misrep. One more and I get a free sundae at Dairy Queen!
I didn't see any actual addressing there - merely you restating your skewed version of reality ad nauseum.
Well...I quoted your comments, and then I offered my thoughts on them, occasionally noting evidence, or meta theory, or explaining why I found the logic poor.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
1. And why should that matter to me if I'm town and confident I won't be mislynched? Additionally, this still is moot to the point that there was absolutely no reason for me to take your vote seriously at that point in the game.
2. Not intentional so much as out of habit - there was nothing for me to respond to, so I did not respond.
3. And this is where you're wrong. There is nothing anti-town about ignoring an RVS vote.
1. At what point do you think information gathering questions, votes, and pressure are supposed to happen and why do you oppose them prior to that point?
2. You found many things to respond to once I called you scum for not responding.
3. It prevents scumhunting by making you impossible to read - so, yes, there is.
I'm pretty sure I never stated that you didn't address my points, only that you didn't do so sufficiently - which is evident by the fact that we're still disagreeing on what is scummy and what is not.
Okay...quote one that I haven't responded to "sufficiently" and explain what I need to do to make it a sufficient reply.
I will then do so.
Lay it on me, I'm ready - pick the toughest nut, let's do this!
Why wouldn't a townie talk another townie down from an incorrect read instead of brushing them off? Didn't you state that only scum ignore votes?
Straw man - I never said they did.
For a guy who whines about how I don't read, you missed the part where I explicitly called that sarcasm and explained I was mocking you for your stance.
What "catch" are you referring to? Because I can't tell if you're misrepping me or not.
You said that you had only done one scummy thing, that would be the playstyle catch you were dinged on.
I countered that no one had really run you for that besides one (maybe 2, though I couldn't name two) players.
Therefore making it not a valid reason to think people think you are bad scum, since they're voting you for reasons you don't even think are scumtells - theoretically you should think that makes them bad town/scum, but you're not saying that. You're saying they think you're bad scum.
It's a mental disconnect.
Your question was 'is English your first language' I responded to that.
If there's a question I missed - go ahead and quote it again.
I'll probably answer it with a quote.
Your points are based on some predetermined, self-contradictory idea you have about how town act and how scum act. Your points are nothing more than you taking one of these:
Your defense is the same, except I've taken pains to explain why I think it isn't applicable. That's how opinions work.
I've pointed out every single time you've misrepresented what I've said. Do you SERIOUSLY want me to quote each time? Because I can.
You've said it a lot generically - but the sheer fact no one else has noticed suggests either you're bad at carrying a point across or that they aren't misreps.
I believe the latter.
Since you think I'm town, why do you think I'm misrepping you and not misunderstanding you?
You've even suggested I have English as a secondary language, why claim both?
It's another fine example of you misrepresenting what I'm saying when I'm making myself perfectly clear and using a literary device to drive my point home.
Yes, because just like sarcasm, hyperbole comes across perfectly clearly and anyone who misses the point is doing so intentionally.
tl:dr - he uses the word misrep about thirty times. Also complains that I haven't answered his questions "sufficiently" (to which he never tried a follow up question, apparently)
I challenged him to provide examples of the first, and to present an unanswered question and clue me in on what 'sufficient' would be for it.
Other than that it felt mostly like flailing banter.
Quickly posting because I'm already almost out of time for the morning.
The chance of all three scum being in one group of six out of twelve people, without any other knowledge, is (6/12)*(5/11)*(4/10) = 1/11 = 9%. Certainly possible, but unlikely enough that it's a good starting point.
Cyouni is still a good scum candidate.
I would much appreciate it if MtG:S ignored Thor and talked about other people. I have zero interest in reading semantics warz because everyone loses and no one finds scum. (That means, Iso, that if you could tell me anything about anyone else in some kind of concise format I would find that much more enlightening than whatever it is you said in the last page.)
I'm not saying you should have ignored Vi. I was wondering why you didn't. It was a serious question founded on the statement you made - and subsequently <snipped> about "likes to avoid discussing things about him" when you compared your playstyle to Nacho. I'm not suggesting it's scummy - I'm suggesting it doesn't match with what you said about yourself.
Voxx's analysis is itching my paranoia switch, but I'm not sure if that couldn't just be explained away by general dismissiveness. I'm dismissive of cases on me as town, it's how I react to them. Nacho does it semi-similar as I recall, he likes to avoid discussing things about him (which is usually my basis for lynching him).
So when I compared myself to Voxx and said Nacho did something "semi-similar" I really meant "I play exactly like Nacho"
Does this make sense to you?
I'm still lost - I need this dialed in. I feel like you're either intentionally misrepresenting what I said to do a really derpy attempt at making me look bad, or you honestly mixed up what I said, and are doing a really awkward scumhunt based on bad information and are acting like me being confused is a problem with my answers as opposed to your fact-checking.
What is your take?
The latter is closer to the reality of the situation. I wouldn't say it's "bad" information, but more of a case where I conflated the "avoid talking" line and "dismissiveness" into "ignore", sure. It just felt like the two statements you made were inconsistent, and I was trying to get a read on that. Ultimately, there's no question you certainly display a "dismissive" attitude on the whole.
As for the banter back-and-forth comment where you said I'd "figure it out in 10 pages" or whatever, it does appear that you stopped answering Iso's threadnaughts first with that very post I linked and asked you to respond to. Am I missing something?
The chance of all three scum being in one group of six out of twelve people, without any other knowledge, is (6/12)*(5/11)*(4/10) = 1/11 = 9%. Certainly possible, but unlikely enough that it's a good starting point.
Remember that you don't need the 1/2 chance at the beginning - you only need to ensure the other two are in the same group as the first. So it's actually 2/11, or ~18%.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
[QUOTE=Vierni;/comments/12581714]Demonstrate why under your logic, this would fall under a town RVS reaction to a vote.
(Yes, I realize this will be biased.)
This is a profoundly uninteresting line of inquiry.
I agree with most things Vierni has said; y'all are too focused on catching each other in contradictions and inconsistencies (both are least as common from town as from scum). If we make the game about who can make statements that have the fewest holes, scum bring no disadvantages to the table. This game feels kind of primordial.
Demonstrate why under your logic, this would fall under a town RVS reaction to a vote.
(Yes, I realize this will be biased.)
This is a profoundly uninteresting line of inquiry.
I agree with most things Vierni has said; y'all are too focused on catching each other in contradictions and inconsistencies (both are least as common from town as from scum). If we make the game about who can make statements that have the fewest holes, scum bring no disadvantages to the table. This game feels kind of primordial.
Cyouni's point about my math being wrong aside - which makes me a very sad fluffbird because he's correct - I think that his question is actually fairly interesting. Not the question itself, but the fact that Cyouni's inquiries have consistenly been by far the weakest of the MtG:S crowd.
Iso's vote on Thor seems like the worst possible vote he could make. I don't know why more MTGS people aren't voting Iso. We all know his town behavior, and this isn't it. And frankly, the arguments he is making are inherently scummy in their own right, regardless of meta.
My vote on Thor is perfectly justified. I'm also too tired/demotivated to post another wall in this game right now, so I'll probably get to that tomorrow instead.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I really, really miss our isolation button btw; once I've loaded a game's happenings into my mind, I read people by looking at their posts alone. It is very hard / slow going to do that here
I take back my "y'all" from the previous post.
TOWN
Llamarble - YUP
Thor - I just read every single bearded post. If he's scum his play here is excellent. I am uninterested in lynching him today. Other folks probably shouldn't be either.
Nacho - Yay!! I was hoping you'd be town.
Vierni - I looked at that Cyouni post he pointed out and it SUCKED. WOW. Good thing I'm already voting Cyouni. Anyhow, Vierni is probably town.
Cyan - I can read him both ways, but his approach / line is decently town.
Fate - I hesitate to pronounce a read on him without much info (I'd say he's the best scum player of the MS crew and one of the best town players), but he's off to a good start.
Voxx - I can follow his line of thought. Seems like a good player.
Descoures - I guess 145 is mostly decent.
Kami of Lunacy - I believe she can fake her posts thus far. No real warning signs, but everyone above is townier.
DYH - A bit boring. Minor behavioral towntells but lame scumhunting.
Cyouni - Inexperienced player (sorry but that's just my honest opinion). May be scum, but unfortunately given his level of play it's not impossible he believes in his Vi vote. Pairs pretty well with Iso.
ISO - Posts 39 and 41 were both quick-responses and I can read both of them from either alignment. I can read a lot of the rest of his stuff from either alignment too, leaning somewhat scum.
SCUM
Contrary to what Iso seems to think, he remains the most likely lynch for today.
I don't feel I've solved this game yet, but I've certainly loaded it into memory.
Fate is the best player represented as both alignments? (though this is not nearly as much of an issue as)
Why do you have more concrete examples pertinent to voting Cyouni than the person you're calling most likely scum? You even went out of your way to emphasize how Iso's posts are alignment-neutral.
There isn't anyone I can confidently say "WILL FLIP SCUM TERMINATE" about yet.
I'm afraid Cyouni not knowing what to look for is making it look like he's not looking properly (as opposed to the usual alignment-related reasons).
If you want to see some meta, my most recent game was a large normal called Yoloville played with Nacho and Vi.
Voxx - I can follow his line of thought. Seems like a good player.
Can you reconcile these? Given that Nacho is my strongest scum read, and you can follow my line of thought (which has mostly been pertaining to Nacho), can you explain your Nacho read in a bit more detail? Why is he unequivocally town?
I can see how one could, as town, read the aspects of Nacho's play you've pointed out and arrive at a conclusion of scum.
I don't think he's scum though. One bit that stood out was:
"Expand on this a little bit? DC is probably my strongest MTGS town read."
Townies are much more often surprised by people disagreeing with them.
Demonstrate why under your logic, this would fall under a town RVS reaction to a vote.
(Yes, I realize this will be biased.)
This is a profoundly uninteresting line of inquiry.
I agree with most things Vierni has said; y'all are too focused on catching each other in contradictions and inconsistencies (both are least as common from town as from scum). If we make the game about who can make statements that have the fewest holes, scum bring no disadvantages to the table. This game feels kind of primordial.
Cyouni's point about my math being wrong aside - which makes me a very sad fluffbird because he's correct - I think that his question is actually fairly interesting. Not the question itself, but the fact that Cyouni's inquiries have consistenly been by far the weakest of the MtG:S crowd.
Voxxicus, DYH - do you agree?
I'd say Cyan's have been the weakest at this point, primarily because they've been borderline rhetorical and/or questions specifically about Nacho's playstyle, yet he continues to vote Iso.
Cyouni's posts this game fit his general style - and this is going to sound worse than it is in reality - which is sort of similar to desCoures but without nearly as much text, analysis, and question depth.
I say that because it's a high standard of comparison - desCoures is a on a whole different level than most players on MTGS when it comes to that sort of thing. I'd put him on par with Azrael, who unfortunately isn't playing.
It's why he (dC) gets killed a lot N1; which to be fair, so do I, but for a completely different style of approach.
That's the implication. You're better placed to judge whether DC is up to standards from other games than I am, but a good player not living up to their burden of proficiency is always worth looking into.
"...mmh. This is actually a good point, though." is probably the towniest thing I've seen from DC; it was similar to my own reaction to that particular point from Thor. Cyouni mentioning Iso doing this as scum in another game was helpful. That particular point actually seems pretty weak thinking about it now; Iso was aware of awkwardness in his own play and that could've motivated a comment like that. The "I wouldn't be this weak as scum" remains scummy by itself but I don't think it contradicts earlier behavior.
Can you two give some concrete reads on the other MTGS players?
You, I'm not sure on right now.
dC and DYH are probably town.
Cyan's aggression is par for the course, but I don't quite remember it being this... concise? It's not the right word, but I'm short on time right now.
Iso feels like he actually believes what he's saying. Also worth mentioning is that his recent behaviour (vote on Thor area) is reminiscent of another game, where he did the exact same thing. I'd be surprised if he actually managed to copy it that closely. In other words, not someone I want to pursue right now.
Cyouni's posts this game fit his general style - and this is going to sound worse than it is in reality - which is sort of similar to desCoures but without nearly as much text, analysis, and question depth.
I'll note that I tried going with more text once. It didn't work out very well, mainly because I don't do well writing a lot of text.
Can you two give some concrete reads on the other MTGS players?
Cyan is town.
dC needs to post more.
DYH is null.
Cyouni is making me go ":-/" but I'm willing to chalk it up to being rusty for the time being.
You're probably town.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If this is supposed to be in reference to how your reads appear to ebb and flow with the tides, then I fully understand the concept of 'shifting reads'. The thing is, a number of your shifting reads don't seem to have any reason to be shifting.
Being 'tempted to drag out' a tell is dubious.
I don't care about the matters of 2, 3, or 4 votes.
Nacho does not tend to post as much as scum and has yet to post very much.
Kami / Vi are pretty much being Kami / Vi and both make fine sense as town.
Re:Vierni -
You voted Vierni in #36, and said Vierni was 'less scummy, but still sketchy' in #54. By #62, however, Vierni is suddenly fairly high up in your town roster, with only #57 being posted by the person in question in between. And I'm seeing absolutely nothing in #57 that makes Vierni look at all better, so what changed?
DYH is probably town.
@DYH:
Please clarify "I would find this odd except I doubt there are only two scum and KoL just failed to list her scum buddy."
Then here in post #95 DYH is now 'probably town', with only one post in between that could possibly have changed your opinion. What about this one post did so?
Kami mixing up cyouni / cyan is a possible tell / link; last time she said that in a game with me she was 'mixing up' Llamarble (her buddy) and Llamafluff (town).
Descoures posting so far is pretty eminently fakeable and pursues lines scum would go for; strong bid for DYH's spot on the scumteam.
Now this is interesting. Explain what about my posts is 'lines scum would go for', hmm? Or are you just trying to discredit the one person who's actively questioning you?
.
One example of a "line scum would go for" is the old 'X changed his / her mind without anything happening in between' poke.
Scum (myself in the past included) love that one because it's a scummy sounding fact not requiring any empathy-ey analysis.
As for me, I reread and came to a new conclusion. I do that a lot.
'Beware of listmakers,'
'you like that A voted B but think both are town,'
"that wagon did not have the precise number of votes you claim it did,"
"explain these reads,"
"Thor's logic is weak and for some bizarre reason this intrinsically makes him scummy"
ALL of these fit into the pattern of relatively inassailable / orbital / not-engaged-but-want-to-look-like-it-safely posting I described.
Here he refuses to answer my questions, refusing to explain his thought process - essentially refusing to be held accountable for his posts, and, yes, the inconsistencies therein. These are questions - if he was a townie, I don't see why in the world he would have a problem with simply saying what in his re-read changed his opinion. But he instead avoids the question and additionally attempts to rubbish my methodology, calling it 'safe' and peripheral.
Do you ever get the claim and then say 'let's lynch' and then fail to get the needed votes? Seems like it could happen on a contested claim, or is the claim-ee supposed to sense that and tell people to sod off?
This has never happened in the countless(over 100 I think) games I have played on here.
Unrelatedly, I like Thor's demeanor. And separately, I have a town read on him, as well as on Vierne.
I pretty much regard you Thor and Vierni as the ALLIANCE OF JUSTICE at this point.
I thought I'd qualified by now too but I guess people have silly doubts.
Voxx has been matching some scum patterns but could flip either way.
Here he attempts to push himself as town, blatantly trying to paint himself as being similar to Cyan, Vierni, and Thor. This is not at all the case - Cyan and Thor have made their reads exceedingly clear, and Vierni is attempting to strategize somewhat and is engaging others in more active conversation. Looking back at llamarble's posts this game, I realize that other than his insinuations in my direction (which started after I began questioning him) I don't really have the faintest idea who he's really going after... until, at least...
I really, really miss our isolation button btw; once I've loaded a game's happenings into my mind, I read people by looking at their posts alone. It is very hard / slow going to do that here
I take back my "y'all" from the previous post.
TOWN
Llamarble - YUP
Thor - I just read every single bearded post. If he's scum his play here is excellent. I am uninterested in lynching him today. Other folks probably shouldn't be either.
Nacho - Yay!! I was hoping you'd be town.
Vierni - I looked at that Cyouni post he pointed out and it SUCKED. WOW. Good thing I'm already voting Cyouni. Anyhow, Vierni is probably town.
Cyan - I can read him both ways, but his approach / line is decently town.
Fate - I hesitate to pronounce a read on him without much info (I'd say he's the best scum player of the MS crew and one of the best town players), but he's off to a good start.
Voxx - I can follow his line of thought. Seems like a good player.
Descoures - I guess 145 is mostly decent.
Kami of Lunacy - I believe she can fake her posts thus far. No real warning signs, but everyone above is townier.
DYH - A bit boring. Minor behavioral towntells but lame scumhunting.
Cyouni - Inexperienced player (sorry but that's just my honest opinion). May be scum, but unfortunately given his level of play it's not impossible he believes in his Vi vote. Pairs pretty well with Iso.
ISO - Posts 39 and 41 were both quick-responses and I can read both of them from either alignment. I can read a lot of the rest of his stuff from either alignment too, leaning somewhat scum.
SCUM
Contrary to what Iso seems to think, he remains the most likely lynch for today.
I don't feel I've solved this game yet, but I've certainly loaded it into memory.
Here he posts a list of reads... except that while he appears comfortable declaring some people 'absolutely town', his elaboration on his bottom three - his most likely to be scum three - is fence-sitting so hard it nearly needs to be called on obscenity charges. DYH, his third most likely to be scum player has 'minor towntells'. Cyouni and Iso 'might be either alignment'. Add to the fact that while he's shifted other people around, his bottom three are essentially the exact same as his bottom three from his first list, and we have a recipe for someone who's 'not really involved but trying to look like he is'.
(Oh, and despite his constant insinuations in my direction, he's shifted KoL below me. KoL, who he had pretty high up in his first list, and who hasn't posted at all due to V/LA since that first list and now. It's like he's realized that his attempts to discredit me aren't working - because they aren't.)
That's the implication. You're better placed to judge whether DC is up to standards from other games than I am, but a good player not living up to their burden of proficiency is always worth looking into.
"...mmh. This is actually a good point, though." is probably the towniest thing I've seen from DC; it was similar to my own reaction to that particular point from Thor. Cyouni mentioning Iso doing this as scum in another game was helpful. That particular point actually seems pretty weak thinking about it now; Iso was aware of awkwardness in his own play and that could've motivated a comment like that. The "I wouldn't be this weak as scum" remains scummy by itself but I don't think it contradicts earlier behavior.
That's a rather unsubtle attempt to continue to push me as scummy while passing the buck over to DYH... DYH, who according to him is the third most likely player to be scum. And then the rest of that last post is a strange mess that actually ends up looking more like a defence of Iso than anything else.
...in fact, while writing this I realize that llamarble and Iso as scumbuddies is eminently possible. Mm. Still a bit off, though - that Iso fence-sitting in that last list doesn't really look like a bus.
Let's put it this way - you can possibly call 3 votes a major wagon in a mini. 2 votes, especially off RVS? That can barely be called a wagon at all. So you characterizing Vierni's vote on you as 'subtly pushing one major wagon over another' is flawed at best, and outright disingenuous at worst.
It is neither of those things.
It is a difference of opinion about what is large.
You say 2 votes at that stage isn't large, I say it is.
If I called it a kumquat strength wagon would we even be having this debate, and if so for what purpose?
The other element of that, of course, was that from how lengthy your spiel on that characterization was, it implied you put a good deal of thought into that - which you blatantly getting the numbers wrong on a not-terribly difficult count seemed to contradict. If you say you have a medical condition, then fine. I can't gainsay your word on that, obviously. But your point is weaker, and by far.
It does not make it weaker that I said 3 instead of 2 if my original point had strength. That's like me doing research on some food and deciding the Big mac is unhealthy because it has 805 calories. And then you say, hold up, it only has 705,a nd I go, ah, yes, I got that wrong - but my point holds. And you reply, no, your point is destroyed because you got a number wrong, never mind that either number is basically fine within the framework of your debate.
It's rather pedantic and doesn't make sense. What if I'd typed 4, would that make it even weaker? Or be the same as 3? What if I'd typed 12? What if I'd just said 'larger'?
The number being incorrect does not invalidate the logic of the case - invalidate the logic or back up why me saying the wrong number magically weakens the whole case because you now think I was a little less research intensive than you originally thought - because I'm pretty sure how much effort I extrovert *isn't* what you're supposed to use as the measuring rod for the quality of my case.
Roses by any other name. That's mere semantics, and the calorie metaphor is an outright strawman besides. The difference between a 3-vote wagon and a 2-vote wagon is like the difference between spells doing the same thing costing 2 mana and 3 mana in MtG - the former is great, the latter very much less so.
My point was that 2 votes barely even qualifies as a wagon thanks to how ridiculously easy it is for something like that to form, and additionally so at such an early stage.
...but this whole line of inquiry is just making me think that this is less a case of scum making excuses, and more one of you actually believing this 'logic'. -_-
...then riddle me this. If you can apparently pursue different people at the same time in this manner, then what exactly is the difference between this and what Vierni essentially did by shifting her vote from DYH, to you, to Iso? Because if you're applying double standards there, then there's most definitely something insincere about your attack.
Considering I'm not actually attacking Vierni, but questioning her about it...I don't actually spot the theory hypocrisy you're obviouslly salivating over.
Want to try again and draw a legit parallel?
Mmh. Fair enough. Looking over your posts again, you indeed aren't attacking her, although I still find your initial response to her vote on you somewhat questionable. Point retracted.
I wouldn't be averse to an Iso claim at this point.
Is that actual hammer intent?
Over on MS we like to say that so there's no question what we mean.
Plus it gives Thor more names to play with later in the game, joy!
At this point, yes. (See the very bottom of this post.) Essentially, his responses to you haven't exactly been great.
Since I think we've established that many people are interested in voting for the strange and feral interlopers from the other side and it really looks like there are false positives to go around, why not split up and investigate the people we're respectively familiar with? Surely if someone is scum (or Town), the people who are much more familiar with them would be able to find them more readily. Obviously a lynching majority won't be attained in this way, but these are more what cloud birds call "guidelines".
I think this is a good idea, provided we don't stop reading the posts of players on the other side. I'm not really seeing a downside, honestly - even if all the mafia are from the same side, that should out eventually. It's not like one side can muster enough votes for a lynch anyway.
Which is also why I'm not a fan of Cyouni's and Voxxicus' cautious disapproval of this suggestion... that, I note, in both cases stops short of an outright no.
Since I think we've established that many people are interested in voting for the strange and feral interlopers from the other side and it really looks like there are false positives to go around, why not split up and investigate the people we're respectively familiar with? Surely if someone is scum (or Town), the people who are much more familiar with them would be able to find them more readily. Obviously a lynching majority won't be attained in this way, but these are more what cloud birds call "guidelines".
This seems reasonable, until one considers the possibility that all the scum are on one side or the other.
Still, it seems better than what's going on now. It's an endless back-and-forth.
Why would all the scum being on one side make this suggestion 'not reasonable'?
...wait, what? You made the second point yourself, in one of your previous posts. How have you forgotten that already?
I wasn't specifically referring to the vote on Thor, it was more of a general point. More along the lines of "how do you have 'control' of a wagon? Does everyone's votes follow yours around?"
...which is barely a point at all. What gives? I initially thought you said that because it didn't make logical sense when Vierni unvoted DYH to vote Thor, but if you just asked that question without that as a consideration then we have a problem here.
Random is random, so it's entirely possible one 'faction' could contain the entire scum team, admittedly - assuming that it'll be a 2-1 split one way or the other is faulty logic.
Llamarble lacks self-awareness and is probably town.
What do you mean 'lacks self-awareness', and why in the world does that make him town?
---------------------------------------------
After slogging through a mess of Thor-Iso posts, I think I've figured out what's so off about Iso this game. He's posting like Seppel under pressure at the moment, albeit with less hissy fits and all-caps. He appears to be more interested at the moment in proving Thor wrong rather than actually divining intent - which very much fits the defensive mindset of pressured scum.
What's giving me pause, though, is his interactions with llamarble and Cyouni, who are both my other major suspects at the moment - more so the latter than the former, because in the former's case it's really just the strange wishy-washiness of llamarble's latest list.
(As an aside - the reason we have people claim at L-2 here is so that they can't be randomly hammered by scum if they claim a powerful town role.)
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So before getting to your silliness, I agree with your last point, or at least a version of it.
Iso is focusing on beating Thor's arguments on a logic-battlefield rather than saying "but I'm town." So you get usefulness / perspective sharing points for that.
On to your accusations:
A
First off, go take a look at any of my town games. This is how I work.
The text you bolded explains all my "inconsistencies."
My posts are not inconsistent. There's just more going on between them than is typical. I spent :hours: reading today. It takes me a :long time: to solve a game, but I'm also right more often than most people.
If I want to communicate / explain something, then I do. This happens more once I'm ready to campaign for or against a lynch.
Until then asking me questions is like DOSing my scumhunting bandwidth, and I've learned to ignore questions I don't think it will be productive to answer.
I called your methodology safe and peripheral because it was.
I actually DID explain that. Do you disagree?
B
I said that I should be regarded as obvtown, not that I should be regarded as similar to Vierni or Thor.
I am my own unique and beautiful townie snowflake.
C
I have no slam dunk scumreads yet. I'm not afraid to not have the game figured out.
I will, and then everyone will obey me and the scum will all die as usual.
"Not really involved but trying to look like he is" doesn't follow from the things you mentioned. I don't think it's fair to accuse me of failure to contribute to town progress.
D
None of the things mentioned here are actually bad?
There isn't anyone I can confidently say "WILL FLIP SCUM TERMINATE" about yet.
I'm afraid Cyouni not knowing what to look for is making it look like he's not looking properly (as opposed to the usual alignment-related reasons).
Yamahbuh, dahling, this skirts entirely around my issue. Why would you do that?
--
@DYH 238 - So are you talking about Town-Cyouni or Scumoni?
(And perhaps more importantly - how is "Cyouni" pronounced?)
--
@Iso 243 - It's what, y'know, virtually everyone else has picked up on here. If you're going to vote on procedure and bad logic then you're going to vote mafiascum every time. It's not going to work. (Or see what desCoures said.)
But more importantly, I think it's worth noting that the number of people here ready to vote Thor consists of... you. You're quite Isolated in that regard. Would you care to fix that one way or another?
--
Quote from "llamarble 246" »
I said that I should be regarded as obvtown, not that I should be regarded as similar to Vierni or Thor.
I am my own unique and beautiful townie snowflake.
@Vi: I'm talking about Cyouni, in general. He and Voxx are two players I don't have a ton of experience with directly (1 or 2 games, each, I believe), but I have read other games with them in it. That's not the same thing for me, though. I don't have a feel for what his scum game looks like compared to his town game by memory.
"Yamahbuh, dahling, this skirts entirely around my issue. Why would you do that?"
I didn't mean to skirt; I did offer at least some explanation of why I don't feel awesomely confident in Cyouni scum either.
I'll be putting another time-chunk in either today or tomorrow, which I'll hopefully come out of with more satisfyingly differentiated reads.
The direct explanation of why I put Iso beY:low Cyouni even though I've said more things about Cyouni is that I've been considering more than I've been talking about.
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"I like how Thor rehashed a bunch of points and called them a case, after being asked specifically to do so.
I also "rebutted" them insomuch as I said I disagreed, Thor offered counterpoints to all my disagreements, and then I was like, 'nyah, I disagreed once, you're not allowed to use them against me anymore!' "
Still need rope over here.
I'd like the people who actually have a town read on Iso to speak up at this stage.
Reasons would also be awesome to hear.
Yes, how dare Thor bring up "points" and then, by putting them together call them a "case" This is *most* irregular.
Harumph, harumph!
I mean...seriously, whut?
@Iso - please define how a case doesn't use points and why it is weird that I did so? I want to hear this now too.
I mean, seriously, how fething bizarre. It's amazing you all haven't lynched me yet since I am basically just making up new ways to play the game of mafia and acting like it's noraml.
Hint: he is busted scum resorting to ad hom in a desperate hope to survive. I think it's pretty obvious.
Official Vote Count
Players needed to lynch: 7
Iso - 4 - Thor665, Cyan, Kami of Lunacy, Aggressive_Fate - (L-3)
Cyouni - 2 - Llamarble, Vierni - (L-5)
Nachomamma8 - 2 - Voxxicus, Iso - (L-5)
Kami of Lunacy - 1 - desCoures - (L-6)
Aggressive_Fate - 1 - Nachomamma8 - (L-6)
Thor665 - 1 - DYH - (L-6)
Vierni - 1 - Cyouni - (L-6)
Players not voting: None
I'm not saying you should have ignored Vi. I was wondering why you didn't. It was a serious question founded on the statement you made - and subsequently <snipped> about "likes to avoid discussing things about him" when you compared your playstyle to Nacho. I'm not suggesting it's scummy - I'm suggesting it doesn't match with what you said about yourself.
I was working up a rather large rebuttal to your posted case on Iso, as his early posts didn't at all match up with what you were saying. He was initially arguing that your vote was RVS and he was ignoring it because it was non-intentioned. Then I came to the infamous no claim post and found what you were referencing with the acknowledgment of the "baiting for a reaction". As I mentioned before, I already did not like this post because he didn't claim at L-2, and it's at this juncture that I begrudgingly concede I understand now what you saw in him.
It should be noted that Iso claims he is "unable to be meta'd", so the playstyle argument you make above is relevant here. It delves into the realm of meta-WIFOM, though, if I try to guess whether Iso would make that play as scum in the first of a three-game set where he's trying to make a "good first impression", so I just won't.
I do agree with him on the theory portions of his posts regarding RVS votes and reactions - hence my vote on you - which is troubling because of the lack of reaction from him that you point out.
But then there's this post where he explains further about the lack of reaction. I remember nodding my head especially at point #2 when he made the post - the RVS seems to be a somewhat different beast here than at 'Scum from what I'm gathering.
You didn't bother to respond to that post, though, other than with this:
If you could "easily blast" the rest of his post, why didn't you? Instead you chose to sarcastically retort and ad hom him/MTGS playerbase.
I'd be curious to see your actual rebuttal to that post of his.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Same here. Why do you think he's scum?
Specifically, what changed since his previous post that suddenly made him scum?
Hm. I'm relatively sure that it's the same chance as a randomizer picking three numbers from the same set. Theoretically, it should be 16.5% overall.
I'll do a check on this tomorrow to make sure.
Do you know how easy it would be for me to find you a list of stuff that can be declared "bad" without a doubt and still town?
Among them, one of my favourites is, "I used an ability on you that may or may not have had the ability to kill you and you're alive, so you're scum." (Slightly paraphrased due to how that particular game worked.)
How so? I was under the impression that you believed 'bad' to be scummy, and therefore that would mean I'm bad scum.
Oh, please do. That would make my life much easier.
And as a note, ad hom remains ad hom regardless of the degree.
Thought I should mention that I'm using the gimmick NeedMoreAssumptions in there. It's noted anyways after I decide to post on a no-sleep night, but...
Remind me why you think Vi's scum again, given this?
Whut?
Here's what I actually said;
So when I compared myself to Voxx and said Nacho did something "semi-similar" I really meant "I play exactly like Nacho"
Does this make sense to you?
I'm still lost - I need this dialed in. I feel like you're either intentionally misrepresenting what I said to do a really derpy attempt at making me look bad, or you honestly mixed up what I said, and are doing a really awkward scumhunt based on bad information and are acting like me being confused is a problem with my answers as opposed to your fact-checking.
What is your take?
Yes, the facts have a mysterious way of falling into place for me.
It's part of my rather unusual scumhunting style.
My issue is less meta-wifom, and more playstyle logic. He claimed to understand that I was scumhunting him.
His reaction was to not give me any scumhunting info.
Then he called me scummy when I complained.
It doesn't follow.
I didn't because I occasionally try not to do nothing but wall post.
But, sure, I'll do that one next. I'm a giving sort.
My point is that you don't have a case because everything you listed has been sufficiently responded to.
Given that you stopped addressing specific things after I responded to them, I can only presume you can't follow up on them - ergo, rebutted.
In fact, you stopped responding to my walls in general once you realized you couldn't win the argument with me, so...keep using that appeal to self-authority, because look at how successful it's been in getting me lynched so far!
Get over yourself.
Oh look, another misrepresentation of what I said!
Are you incapable of posting a logical, coherent, non-derisive, devoid of fallacies post based in reality? Or is that beneath your superb scumhunting abilities?
Again, my point is that you don't have a case to stand on. It's been destroyed. At this point, you're saying, "Iso is scum because I say so, guys!" and hoping that your force of personality will get me lynched. I imagine the only reason you haven't been lynched for this yet is because you're somehow managing to be obviously town with it. Frankly, I was considering pushing a policy lynch on you for being such a distraction at this point that not much else is getting done. You're even more of an attention whore in Mafia than I am - that's not a good thing.
Lolwut? I'm pretty sure nobody has said, "Gee, Iso's ad hom sure makes me think he's town, I'm going to unvote him!" I'm also relatively certain that I've been chilling within 2-4 votes of lynch range for a while now, so pardon me for not feeling "desperate to survive" when it's obvious my lynch isn't happening.
As I stated, it didn't occur to me that Thor was baiting me for a reaction until after I re-read with intent to analyze my wagon.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This really doesn't make sense. He wanted to stop me scumhunting someone else, because he thought they were town and I was asking them a loaded question to...use against them...by asking them their opinion about how he played.
I have been asked in this thread by multiple people about;
How Nacho plays.
How DGB plays.
How Fate plays.
A lot of people have done the same with other players. It's pretty normal.
Iso didn't jump in once to try to save me from those "loaded" questions.
This is all bollocks, he was just feeling pressured - y'know, like he says scum always do during RVS. In any case, he was certainly *unhappy* that I was scumhunting him in a rather normal way that he had no issue with at any other time in the thread except when it involved him.
My vote was indicated as making you the largest wagon and that I *chose* to make you the largest wagon.
I guess you could have absolutely no curiosity on it at all - but if that's true it's rather odd since it was an aggressive move by me to get you lynched.
Maybe I don't.
Same on MS.
No votes are random, that's actually the point. If we believed this to be true we should use a random number generator for our votes and then just stare at each other.
Even if I were to buy that you believe the best pro-town action is to not pay attention to RVS votes even though you understand they're there to get reactions and scumhunt (which, by the by, further proof they're not random) - why did you act shocked that I was bothered I hadn't gotten a reaction out of you and proceeded to pressure more to get one? Indeed, you took exception to me having issues with you playing in a way that denied providing me a read. I don't get why that was strange to you - you're still doing it, it's like, what a shock, Thor was scumhunting! What a strange fellow!
This is apparently what he says to town reads. Because, y'know, when you think town is voting you, the optimal response is to try to downplay their skill and refuse to address them.
I know when I think town is voting me I don't ask for their reasons and work with them logically and present alternatives (I would be hard pressed to even describe Iso's reads right now - and we're past page 10).
He was complaining that people thought he was bad as scum because of ther reasons for voting him.
He doesn't think he's done anything scummy.
He doesn't see this as a disconnect.
If he hadn't done anything scummy, then what are the 'bad scum scumtells' people think he's done?
Hint - those are called "bad cases"
But he doesn't phrase it like that.
Because he knows they're right.
And that is the wall o' awesome Thor was scared to address.
I disagree.
I was not the one who stopped responding specifically.
Hint: this will be a fact that DYH will figure out in another 10 pages.
I guess so, what a wonderful factual rebuttal.
I don't have a case you agree with.
Oddly I've *never* had a scum agree with my case on him. it's weird, it's always just the worst case ever made, and then they flip scum.
Fascinating that I can push the worst cases ever made, misrep constatly, lie, dodge, cheat, steal, and kick little puppies, and still be obv. town.
Ruddy amazing.
And me thinking you're scum totally locks down the entire thread, and if only I'd stop you'd do all sorts of wonderful scumhunting.
Give me a bit of time, I think DYH i going to bus you shortly.
Yup, because when someone is trying to get a reaction out of you in RVS you need a re-read to figure out that what they wanted was to get a reaction out of you in RVS.
It's a pretty !33t skill.
I can not comprehend the fact that you are this dense.
Please explain to me how the people asking you about other people's playstyles used loaded questions.
Seeing as there were what, 2, 3 votes on me at the most at the point following your vote, please explain to me why I should have had any reason to believe you were intending to start a wagon on me, given the literal interpretation of your post as "I have voted you so now you have more votes than anyone else, therefore I have made you the largest wagon", and that you had serious intent in pushing my wagon thereafter? ESPECIALLY given that we were in RVS?
Educate yourself.
I'm aware. (Or RQS, in MS's case.)
My point is that the nature of votes in RVS is non-serious, until somebody attempts to break RVS.
See my above questions regarding your initial push on me.
Why should I care what your read of me is in RVS if I'm town?
I've addressed everything you've said and that doesn't change the fact that you're playing awfully. Additionally, that doesn't address the actual point - that you can't respond to my counterpoints sufficiently. Which you have proven with crap responses like this one - which, incidentally, are scummy for talking around me and not to me.
Well that's no surprise, given that you've demonstrated on numerous occasions that you're not actually reading my posts. As for the first part - why?
I don't think I've done anything scummy beyond my initial response to Cyan, which was obviously self-conscious because it directly addressed the way I am playing in this game. What I'm saying is that people were dogpiling votes on to me like Christmas came early and I vezok'd or something. So many votes on me so early as scum would suggest I'm a bad scum player. Given that people were voting me so frenetically so early, it is implied that they think I am scum (scum on the wagon aside, which is a given) and that I am bad enough as scum to be "caught" so early.
I feel like I can't state how bad you are at Mafia enough. Maybe your problem is English. Is it your first language?
That's because you haven't read any of my posts.
I disagree. (:rolleyes:)
Now that I've condescended you some more, the answer you're looking for is that I was referring to what you call "points" and a "case" in quotes because they don't even resemble what you're referring to them as. Yeah, in some bizarro alternate universe where misrepresentation is fact and logic is hated, congratulations, you've created a case on me. However, we live in this reality - I suggest you catch up.
Of course I don't agree with your case - I'm town. Therefore, your case is flawed.
I'm shocked, myself.
I'm pretty sure I've already addressed this, as well. +1 Thor Illiteracy Point.
I've never been a townie with scumbuddies before. I'm excited.
Since you're going to continue to feign ignorance of MTGS RVS meta after it's been explained to you dozens of times (obvious hyperbole, but feel free to take this out of context or whatever it is that you do like with everything else I say), let me ask you this: What do I, as a player who does not know your alignment, in RVS, have to gain from responding to a vote from you that I perceive as baseless/random/what have you?
I didn't see any actual addressing there - merely you restating your skewed version of reality ad nauseum.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I can!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Though frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if people forgot who I was even voting for at this point due to the overwhelming amount of walls of garbage they would have to wade through in my posts, courtesy of the quotes from your posts in my own.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't think they did, because I think it's normal to ask other people about what they think of another persons habits and playstyles.
Why - do you now agree with this stance?
Well...I would think my open claims to "start a wagon on you" could probably be taken as a clue that I intended to start a wagon on you.
I was being pretty subtle, but if you read between the lines I think that comes through.
Since, I sort of openly announced it loudly and had also announced that I was out of RVS.
The presumed nature is unserious. None of them really are though.
At the point I was voting you I was openly claiming both seriousness and intent for lynch.
So you thought I was scumhunting, but that I wasn't serious, and so you shouldn't give me info to respond to, and then it's odd that I wanted info?
Because town doesn't win by being mislynched last I checked.
But, yes, I understand you were intentionally acting in the way you think town should react.
That said, regardless of how much you "cared" you didn't act in a pro-town manner and acted in a pro-scum manner.
Name one point of yours I haven't addressed?
I'll answer it with a quote.
C'mon, this will be great, you'll be able to catch me in a lie!
The 'first part' is...me sarcastically claiming that what you're doing is pro-town? I dunno 'why' on that one, it seems pro-scum to me and I'd never do it and was mocking you for doing it because I think it shows that you're scum and are faking your reads.
How many of them were voting you for that catch?
because I don't recall many.
I don't think I can recall 2.
Why, which words am I misunderstanding in your opinion?
Generic repetitive attack is generic and repetitive.
My points are factual.
What you disagree on are the opinions I've drawn from those facts.
None of those are misreps, because that's not how misreps work.
You haven't disproven the facts (you certainly haven't quoted anything yet and said 'lie!' and you know you can't.
Other than that all you have offered is your take as to why you did what you did, and I have shown why I believe it to be logically nonsensical to suggest you were behaving that way.
I will admit, maybe my misrep is presuming you used logic - but I feel that's actually a legit stance to take and expect. You then say "Thor didn't know what I really meant and was thinking, and thus he's misrepping" which is silly.
My points are fine.
My case is fine.
If you are town then my case is flawed, that is true.
Let's lynch you and find out what's what.
Yep, because when you use hyperbole it is weird if I react to it.
Learning my alignment?
I might as well ask you 'what do you ever hope to learn from any interaction in RVS?"
The entire point of RVS is to force interactions to start learning alignments.
If everyone played the way you're saying we're supposed to everyone would vote once, stare at each other refusing to react, and then eventually the day would end and we'd all rely on PRs.
If everyone played the CrAzY way that Thor does we would have lots of interactions and wagons to assess.
I'm a terrible player.
Well...I quoted your comments, and then I offered my thoughts on them, occasionally noting evidence, or meta theory, or explaining why I found the logic poor.
Why, what does "addressing" entail if not that?
If they didn't, then it's not comparable. You are admitting to strawmanning the point.
Gee, let's take a look at the post where you voted me:
None of this reads as serious, at all, regardless of what you said prior to it about being out of RVS. Ergo, I interpreted it as RVS shenanigans and shrugged it off.
@Anyone: Does the above post wherein Thor cast his initial vote on me read as anything but RVS joking?
Which you can't expect me to have known short of me being psychic.
No, I didn't think you were scumhunting. I thought that you weren't being serious. If you'll note in my SEVERAL following responses to you harping upon the fact that I did not respond to your initial vote, I made it VERY clear that I still did not believe your vote was a serious one.
1. And why should that matter to me if I'm town and confident I won't be mislynched? Additionally, this still is moot to the point that there was absolutely no reason for me to take your vote seriously at that point in the game.
2. Not intentional so much as out of habit - there was nothing for me to respond to, so I did not respond.
3. And this is where you're wrong. There is nothing anti-town about ignoring an RVS vote.
I'm pretty sure I never stated that you didn't address my points, only that you didn't do so sufficiently - which is evident by the fact that we're still disagreeing on what is scummy and what is not.
Why wouldn't a townie talk another townie down from an incorrect read instead of brushing them off? Didn't you state that only scum ignore votes?
What "catch" are you referring to? Because I can't tell if you're misrepping me or not.
APPARENTLY ALL OF THEM
Why did you avoid my question?
Respond to my posts in a manner that indicates you've actually read what you're looking at and I'll stop repeating myself on that matter. Otherwise, you're going to keep seeing that.
Your points are based on some predetermined, self-contradictory idea you have about how town act and how scum act. Your points are nothing more than you taking one of these:
...and punching the red piece into the triangle hole until everyone agrees that it almost resembles a triangle.
No. I disagree with your "facts" because you have seen it fit to twist the meaning of every single counterpoint I have responded with.
Oh, the person who apparently can't comprehend English is giving me a lesson on what a misrep is! Please, Professor Thor, walk me through how misrepresentation works, and explain in precise detail how you taking what I'm saying and assigning a different meaning to it is not misrepresentation.
I've pointed out every single time you've misrepresented what I've said. Do you SERIOUSLY want me to quote each time? Because I can.
Again, "because I say so" =/= logical.
"Thor is taking what I'm saying, skewing the meaning into something I obviously don't mean based on context clues that anybody with a fundamental understanding of the English language can see, and is stating it as fact, thus he's misrepping."
This is a perfect example of you misrepping me!
It's another fine example of you misrepresenting what I'm saying when I'm making myself perfectly clear and using a literary device to drive my point home.
That's not how I RVS at all. But chalk up another misrep. One more and I get a free sundae at Dairy Queen!
QFT.
Acknowledging that you're wrong, in this case.
Let's lynch you. I've reversed my opinion of you because there is no way anybody can be this braindead.
Unvote, Vote Thor665
Does anybody need why spelled out for them?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Define how my question was loaded and I'll tell you if the others were.
And I explained why the way you shrugged it off pinged as scummy to me.
Or reading my posts, no.
What do you think scumhunting in RVS looks like?
1. At what point do you think information gathering questions, votes, and pressure are supposed to happen and why do you oppose them prior to that point?
2. You found many things to respond to once I called you scum for not responding.
3. It prevents scumhunting by making you impossible to read - so, yes, there is.
Okay...quote one that I haven't responded to "sufficiently" and explain what I need to do to make it a sufficient reply.
I will then do so.
Lay it on me, I'm ready - pick the toughest nut, let's do this!
Straw man - I never said they did.
For a guy who whines about how I don't read, you missed the part where I explicitly called that sarcasm and explained I was mocking you for your stance.
I agree though, what you're doing isn't townish.
You said that you had only done one scummy thing, that would be the playstyle catch you were dinged on.
I countered that no one had really run you for that besides one (maybe 2, though I couldn't name two) players.
Therefore making it not a valid reason to think people think you are bad scum, since they're voting you for reasons you don't even think are scumtells - theoretically you should think that makes them bad town/scum, but you're not saying that. You're saying they think you're bad scum.
It's a mental disconnect.
Then i guess English isn't my first language - when you can be specific clue me in.
Your question was 'is English your first language' I responded to that.
If there's a question I missed - go ahead and quote it again.
I'll probably answer it with a quote.
Your defense is the same, except I've taken pains to explain why I think it isn't applicable. That's how opinions work.
Quote a fact I'm misrepping with the misrep.
I'd love to see it.
You've said it a lot generically - but the sheer fact no one else has noticed suggests either you're bad at carrying a point across or that they aren't misreps.
I believe the latter.
Since you think I'm town, why do you think I'm misrepping you and not misunderstanding you?
You've even suggested I have English as a secondary language, why claim both?
Yes, because just like sarcasm, hyperbole comes across perfectly clearly and anyone who misses the point is doing so intentionally.
How do you play RVS?
Acknowledging that you're wrong, in this case.
I challenged him to provide examples of the first, and to present an unanswered question and clue me in on what 'sufficient' would be for it.
Other than that it felt mostly like flailing banter.
The chance of all three scum being in one group of six out of twelve people, without any other knowledge, is (6/12)*(5/11)*(4/10) = 1/11 = 9%. Certainly possible, but unlikely enough that it's a good starting point.
Cyouni is still a good scum candidate.
I would much appreciate it if MtG:S ignored Thor and talked about other people. I have zero interest in reading semantics warz because everyone loses and no one finds scum. (That means, Iso, that if you could tell me anything about anyone else in some kind of concise format I would find that much more enlightening than whatever it is you said in the last page.)
The latter is closer to the reality of the situation. I wouldn't say it's "bad" information, but more of a case where I conflated the "avoid talking" line and "dismissiveness" into "ignore", sure. It just felt like the two statements you made were inconsistent, and I was trying to get a read on that. Ultimately, there's no question you certainly display a "dismissive" attitude on the whole.
As for the banter back-and-forth comment where you said I'd "figure it out in 10 pages" or whatever, it does appear that you stopped answering Iso's threadnaughts first with that very post I linked and asked you to respond to. Am I missing something?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
@Thor:
Something I was wondering this morning:
Demonstrate why under your logic, this would fall under a town RVS reaction to a vote.
(Yes, I realize this will be biased.)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This is a profoundly uninteresting line of inquiry.
I agree with most things Vierni has said; y'all are too focused on catching each other in contradictions and inconsistencies (both are least as common from town as from scum). If we make the game about who can make statements that have the fewest holes, scum bring no disadvantages to the table. This game feels kind of primordial.
Voxxicus, DYH - do you agree?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I take back my "y'all" from the previous post.
TOWN
Llamarble - YUP
Thor - I just read every single bearded post. If he's scum his play here is excellent. I am uninterested in lynching him today. Other folks probably shouldn't be either.
Nacho - Yay!! I was hoping you'd be town.
Vierni - I looked at that Cyouni post he pointed out and it SUCKED. WOW. Good thing I'm already voting Cyouni. Anyhow, Vierni is probably town.
Cyan - I can read him both ways, but his approach / line is decently town.
Fate - I hesitate to pronounce a read on him without much info (I'd say he's the best scum player of the MS crew and one of the best town players), but he's off to a good start.
Voxx - I can follow his line of thought. Seems like a good player.
Descoures - I guess 145 is mostly decent.
Kami of Lunacy - I believe she can fake her posts thus far. No real warning signs, but everyone above is townier.
DYH - A bit boring. Minor behavioral towntells but lame scumhunting.
Cyouni - Inexperienced player (sorry but that's just my honest opinion). May be scum, but unfortunately given his level of play it's not impossible he believes in his Vi vote. Pairs pretty well with Iso.
ISO - Posts 39 and 41 were both quick-responses and I can read both of them from either alignment. I can read a lot of the rest of his stuff from either alignment too, leaning somewhat scum.
SCUM
Contrary to what Iso seems to think, he remains the most likely lynch for today.
I don't feel I've solved this game yet, but I've certainly loaded it into memory.
---
Llamarble, while I'm not unappreciative of your Cyouni vote, I'm having a difficult time buying that post.
Why do you have more concrete examples pertinent to voting Cyouni than the person you're calling most likely scum? You even went out of your way to emphasize how Iso's posts are alignment-neutral.
There isn't anyone I can confidently say "WILL FLIP SCUM TERMINATE" about yet.
I'm afraid Cyouni not knowing what to look for is making it look like he's not looking properly (as opposed to the usual alignment-related reasons).
If you want to see some meta, my most recent game was a large normal called Yoloville played with Nacho and Vi.
Can you reconcile these? Given that Nacho is my strongest scum read, and you can follow my line of thought (which has mostly been pertaining to Nacho), can you explain your Nacho read in a bit more detail? Why is he unequivocally town?
Can you two give some concrete reads on the other MTGS players?
Iso especially I want to just ignore Thor for a while and talk about the other people in this game.
I don't think he's scum though. One bit that stood out was:
"Expand on this a little bit? DC is probably my strongest MTGS town read."
Townies are much more often surprised by people disagreeing with them.
I'd say Cyan's have been the weakest at this point, primarily because they've been borderline rhetorical and/or questions specifically about Nacho's playstyle, yet he continues to vote Iso.
Cyouni's posts this game fit his general style - and this is going to sound worse than it is in reality - which is sort of similar to desCoures but without nearly as much text, analysis, and question depth.
I say that because it's a high standard of comparison - desCoures is a on a whole different level than most players on MTGS when it comes to that sort of thing. I'd put him on par with Azrael, who unfortunately isn't playing.
It's why he (dC) gets killed a lot N1; which to be fair, so do I, but for a completely different style of approach.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
"...mmh. This is actually a good point, though." is probably the towniest thing I've seen from DC; it was similar to my own reaction to that particular point from Thor. Cyouni mentioning Iso doing this as scum in another game was helpful. That particular point actually seems pretty weak thinking about it now; Iso was aware of awkwardness in his own play and that could've motivated a comment like that. The "I wouldn't be this weak as scum" remains scummy by itself but I don't think it contradicts earlier behavior.
Working completely blind to the general pace and style of MS is killing me.
You, I'm not sure on right now.
dC and DYH are probably town.
Cyan's aggression is par for the course, but I don't quite remember it being this... concise? It's not the right word, but I'm short on time right now.
Iso feels like he actually believes what he's saying. Also worth mentioning is that his recent behaviour (vote on Thor area) is reminiscent of another game, where he did the exact same thing. I'd be surprised if he actually managed to copy it that closely. In other words, not someone I want to pursue right now.
I'll note that I tried going with more text once. It didn't work out very well, mainly because I don't do well writing a lot of text.
Then walk me through it.
Cyan is town.
dC needs to post more.
DYH is null.
Cyouni is making me go ":-/" but I'm willing to chalk it up to being rusty for the time being.
You're probably town.
@Cyouni: Which game?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Unvote: Kami of Lunacy
Vote: llamarble
These are his posts from the past couple of days:
Exhibit A -
Here he refuses to answer my questions, refusing to explain his thought process - essentially refusing to be held accountable for his posts, and, yes, the inconsistencies therein. These are questions - if he was a townie, I don't see why in the world he would have a problem with simply saying what in his re-read changed his opinion. But he instead avoids the question and additionally attempts to rubbish my methodology, calling it 'safe' and peripheral.
Exhibit B -
Here he attempts to push himself as town, blatantly trying to paint himself as being similar to Cyan, Vierni, and Thor. This is not at all the case - Cyan and Thor have made their reads exceedingly clear, and Vierni is attempting to strategize somewhat and is engaging others in more active conversation. Looking back at llamarble's posts this game, I realize that other than his insinuations in my direction (which started after I began questioning him) I don't really have the faintest idea who he's really going after... until, at least...
Exhibit C -
Here he posts a list of reads... except that while he appears comfortable declaring some people 'absolutely town', his elaboration on his bottom three - his most likely to be scum three - is fence-sitting so hard it nearly needs to be called on obscenity charges. DYH, his third most likely to be scum player has 'minor towntells'. Cyouni and Iso 'might be either alignment'. Add to the fact that while he's shifted other people around, his bottom three are essentially the exact same as his bottom three from his first list, and we have a recipe for someone who's 'not really involved but trying to look like he is'.
(Oh, and despite his constant insinuations in my direction, he's shifted KoL below me. KoL, who he had pretty high up in his first list, and who hasn't posted at all due to V/LA since that first list and now. It's like he's realized that his attempts to discredit me aren't working - because they aren't.)
And finally, we have Exhibit D -
That's a rather unsubtle attempt to continue to push me as scummy while passing the buck over to DYH... DYH, who according to him is the third most likely player to be scum. And then the rest of that last post is a strange mess that actually ends up looking more like a defence of Iso than anything else.
...in fact, while writing this I realize that llamarble and Iso as scumbuddies is eminently possible. Mm. Still a bit off, though - that Iso fence-sitting in that last list doesn't really look like a bus.
-------------------
Other responses:
@Thor665
I'm going to try to keep this short.
Roses by any other name. That's mere semantics, and the calorie metaphor is an outright strawman besides. The difference between a 3-vote wagon and a 2-vote wagon is like the difference between spells doing the same thing costing 2 mana and 3 mana in MtG - the former is great, the latter very much less so.
My point was that 2 votes barely even qualifies as a wagon thanks to how ridiculously easy it is for something like that to form, and additionally so at such an early stage.
...but this whole line of inquiry is just making me think that this is less a case of scum making excuses, and more one of you actually believing this 'logic'. -_-
Mmh. Fair enough. Looking over your posts again, you indeed aren't attacking her, although I still find your initial response to her vote on you somewhat questionable. Point retracted.
At this point, yes. (See the very bottom of this post.) Essentially, his responses to you haven't exactly been great.
@Vierni
I think this is a good idea, provided we don't stop reading the posts of players on the other side. I'm not really seeing a downside, honestly - even if all the mafia are from the same side, that should out eventually. It's not like one side can muster enough votes for a lynch anyway.
Which is also why I'm not a fan of Cyouni's and Voxxicus' cautious disapproval of this suggestion... that, I note, in both cases stops short of an outright no.
@Cyouni
Why would all the scum being on one side make this suggestion 'not reasonable'?
...which is barely a point at all. What gives? I initially thought you said that because it didn't make logical sense when Vierni unvoted DYH to vote Thor, but if you just asked that question without that as a consideration then we have a problem here.
@Voxxicus
Questions, Voxxicus.
So?
Why, exactly?
What do you mean 'lacks self-awareness', and why in the world does that make him town?
---------------------------------------------
After slogging through a mess of Thor-Iso posts, I think I've figured out what's so off about Iso this game. He's posting like Seppel under pressure at the moment, albeit with less hissy fits and all-caps. He appears to be more interested at the moment in proving Thor wrong rather than actually divining intent - which very much fits the defensive mindset of pressured scum.
What's giving me pause, though, is his interactions with llamarble and Cyouni, who are both my other major suspects at the moment - more so the latter than the former, because in the former's case it's really just the strange wishy-washiness of llamarble's latest list.
(As an aside - the reason we have people claim at L-2 here is so that they can't be randomly hammered by scum if they claim a powerful town role.)
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso is focusing on beating Thor's arguments on a logic-battlefield rather than saying "but I'm town." So you get usefulness / perspective sharing points for that.
On to your accusations:
A
First off, go take a look at any of my town games. This is how I work.
The text you bolded explains all my "inconsistencies."
My posts are not inconsistent. There's just more going on between them than is typical. I spent :hours: reading today. It takes me a :long time: to solve a game, but I'm also right more often than most people.
If I want to communicate / explain something, then I do. This happens more once I'm ready to campaign for or against a lynch.
Until then asking me questions is like DOSing my scumhunting bandwidth, and I've learned to ignore questions I don't think it will be productive to answer.
I called your methodology safe and peripheral because it was.
I actually DID explain that. Do you disagree?
B
I said that I should be regarded as obvtown, not that I should be regarded as similar to Vierni or Thor.
I am my own unique and beautiful townie snowflake.
C
I have no slam dunk scumreads yet. I'm not afraid to not have the game figured out.
I will, and then everyone will obey me and the scum will all die as usual.
"Not really involved but trying to look like he is" doesn't follow from the things you mentioned. I don't think it's fair to accuse me of failure to contribute to town progress.
D
None of the things mentioned here are actually bad?
--
@DYH 238 - So are you talking about Town-Cyouni or Scumoni?
(And perhaps more importantly - how is "Cyouni" pronounced?)
--
@Iso 243 - It's what, y'know, virtually everyone else has picked up on here. If you're going to vote on procedure and bad logic then you're going to vote mafiascum every time. It's not going to work. (Or see what desCoures said.)
But more importantly, I think it's worth noting that the number of people here ready to vote Thor consists of... you. You're quite Isolated in that regard. Would you care to fix that one way or another?
--
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
<3
I didn't mean to skirt; I did offer at least some explanation of why I don't feel awesomely confident in Cyouni scum either.
I'll be putting another time-chunk in either today or tomorrow, which I'll hopefully come out of with more satisfyingly differentiated reads.
The direct explanation of why I put Iso beY:low Cyouni even though I've said more things about Cyouni is that I've been considering more than I've been talking about.