MTG Salvation

Quote from Arianrhod

[QUOTE=Generic;/comments/12147825] Also, I know Guardman and Void have both at least made token posts (I know Void was busy putting WWE to Night) -- would be interested to hear from them, as well.

Any requests. Willing to play Free Bird if you guys really want.

I don't have much to say right now and I don't plan on having much to say right now. My only real thought is that the mask draft probably should be random and hidden if possible, but my knowledge might be tainted.

/Cryptic Guardman Out/

I don't trust Zinger. He is omitting a key part of his win-condition for no other reason than to deceive. Why not just claim exactly how you win if you want the town to help you? TL:DR, he's lying somehow.
@Zinger : So, your ability tells you ALL of the abilities the mask has correct? That means, if your not lying, that no-one has the Deity mask as their true mask?

Deity mask should be used as the 1st lynch today. Its actually hillarious that no-one has suggested this enough for it to be something i remember when reading. There is no other option for this mask, we have to use it today to ensure that its bullet is used by the town for the town's purpose, and nothing else.

I currently like iRebel having the deity mask. He's the least scummy of all the posters so far. Unless for some reason the mask wearer can shoot himself, then i don't care who gets it. But i don't want it on lizard, iso, seppel, zinger, asenion, digi, or Void. Guardman is another option to hold the mask for the day.

Seppel, please popcorn to someone not scummy for them to take the deity mask as use today as a 2nd lynch.

Quote from Arcadic

Deity mask should be used as the 1st lynch today. Its actually hillarious that no-one has suggested this enough for it to be something i remember when reading. There is no other option for this mask, we have to use it today to ensure that its bullet is used by the town for the town's purpose, and nothing else.

That's assuming the Fierce Diety's Mask has no superpower, which is highly unlikely.

Quote from The Most Curious Thing

@Arianrhod

Quote from The Most Curious Thing

Quote from Arianrhod

-) This reads like Jey's town game, based on her posting style in [redacted]. She comes across as very earnest, even in her misreads.

They're misreads?

Misreads meaning where she failed to read/understand the OP. I forget which rule she was confused on -- I can go back and find it if you need/want.

Quote from The Most Curious Thing

Quote from Arcadic

Deity mask should be used as the 1st lynch today. Its actually hillarious that no-one has suggested this enough for it to be something i remember when reading. There is no other option for this mask, we have to use it today to ensure that its bullet is used by the town for the town's purpose, and nothing else.

That's assuming the Fierce Diety's Mask has no superpower, which is highly unlikely.

And if it does? It's highly unlikely that the person who gets the mask is the true mask wearer of it based solely on my reads, or anyone's reads. If the mask ends up on town, that's great. If the scum want the mask because they are the true mask wearers, we will know that simply by the actions taken against that player. And if the true mask wearer is town and it randomly ends up there? That can't be a bad thing, can it?

I don't have a preference to which mask I get. So pick me towards the end so others can get what they want.

Quote from Arcadic

And if the true mask wearer is town and it randomly ends up there? That can't be a bad thing, can it?

That's my point. If the true wearer is town then they need a better-than-random chance of getting the mask so they get access to the superpower. If the normal ability is a vig shot then the superpower is presumably something even greater.

That being said...only letting the mask's true wearer pick it up runs the risk of the true wearer being scum (or there being multiple true wearers and the scum one getting there first), or the risk of outing a town super PR.

So I say let individual players decide whether or not they want to pick it up -- that player will fall under scrutiny and we're more likely to catch them if they're scum (especially if they have a poor reason for picking up the mask or a bad claim), but at the same time there's a better-than-random chance that the town true wearer will pick it up (if there is one) without directly outing the fact that they're the true wearer.

Basically, if you have a good reason to pick up the Fierce Diety's Mask, pick up the Fierce Diety's Mask.

Quote from GiftsTrix

EBWODP: Well drat. He picked wrong mask. Well, Seppel will you kill Z? Also if it IS a day vig then we can treat it as having 2 lynches day 1 which is VERY helpful especially if it's Z and then a normal lynch.

Zinger claimed it was a 1-Shot.

Quote from Generic

@ Iso,

Arianrhod's post 107:

Iso has been very bold so far this game establishing quick, hard reads, applying strong pressure, and announcing that he's found several scum / that this is going to be an easy game, which I tend to associate more with his scum game than his town game.

So im not misrepresenting anything.

And as for my saying im reading you as scum, in the first place I said you had sparked my attention with your antics. You then came and gave a straight forward questioning, which didn't feel off as they weren't loaded or misrepresenting... and then you followed that up with a whole lot of misrepping (and still are) and yet never once pressed an opinion on me (which you have now because I have). That's why I made my opinion on you clear, because you descended into dirty tactics very quickly.

You have given me a major reason to pause however with your comments about seppel, because clearly there is another dimension there both of you have hinted at... one for me to read back over that's for sure.

And since its seppel next to go, this will be interesting...

"Since someone else said it, that completely validates my claim!"

Logic =/= Generic

All of my questions have been straightforward - please point out the ones that are not. Quote each one.

I made my opinion on you quite clear, as well. I just didn't directly state it.

I dislike that you're attempting to figure out what ties Seppel and myself together. That said, this statement means that if you're scum, Seppel's town, and if Seppel's scum, you're town.

But Seppel's town so that narrows it down a bit. (No, I'm not saying that townSeppel = scumGeneric.)

Why will Seppel picking a mask be interesting?

Quote from Arianrhod

@Iso/Seppel: what seems off to you about Asenion already? From what I've seen, he's doing pretty much the same things that he's done previously as town (especially actively trying to figure out the setup). He does seem a bit more cautious than usual, but if he has a weird role, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

His language is all wrong for what I've seen from him. He's also been coaching Generic, which is meh, given Generic's stances so far.

Quote from Asenion

Iso is scum for meta reasons.

"lol"

/barn TMCT

Quote from Arcadic

But i don't want it on lizard, iso, seppel, zinger, asenion, digi, or Void. Guardman is another option to hold the mask for the day.

Why?

I'd like to point out that I'm still really interested in FD Mask. I probably should let it go at this point (the novelty of it anyway) but it would be too damn cool (like how the rent is high).

I don't think I would best represent a vig ability though. I will leave it to whoever thinks they can vig most effectively (assuming I'm popcorned before someone drafts it). However, if the scum gets it, it's going to be one hell of a nightmare for town so someone who is town please don't be afraid to take some hate in order to keep that mask's power safe.


...But damn do I want it so bad ;_;

Page 11.
Zinger, I have every intention of helping you win... Eventually. In the meantime we'll e takin those "boons" for the town's use. You belong to us now and in exchange for cooperation you get to live and I personally will help you kill Majora if we find him.

I consider Arian and Seppel to be strong town reads now and I will cooperate with them as much as I can.

Not much other content this page.

I'm caught up now. Nothing else interesting. Let the draft continue

Quote from Generic

Its not the picking of the mask that will be interesting, it will be the popcorning afterwards.

Why?

Quote from Generic »

And i have already pointed to and answered several misrepresentations you made against me, and i notice that you are changing the arguement now i disputed it.

It's not a misrep just because you say so.

Quote from Generic »

You claimed i was misrepping the comments of others, and when i prove thats not the case the arguement changes to im validating my claim because someone else made a similar point. So you are changing your arguement without even addressing you were wrong, classy.

What?

Quote from Generic »

As for this:

That said, this statement means that if you're scum, Seppel's town, and if Seppel's scum, you're town.

But Seppel's town so that narrows it down a bit. (No, I'm not saying that townSeppel = scumGeneric.)

You arent even waiting for the next post to contradict yourself. So if seppel is town, im scum, and you are clearing seppel as town... but you are in no way suggesting that town seppel means scum generic... ok.

What?

Also, why is using the Vig shot on a claimed Neutral more effective in your eyes than using it on scum?

Quote from Asenion

Page 11.
Zinger, I have every intention of helping you win... Eventually. In the meantime we'll e takin those "boons" for the town's use. You belong to us now and in exchange for cooperation you get to live and I personally will help you kill Majora if we find him.

I consider Arian and Seppel to be strong town reads now and I will cooperate with them as much as I can.

Not much other content this page.

Quote from Asenion

I'm caught up now. Nothing else interesting. Let the draft continue

"Nothing else interesting"

There's plenty to comment on. Why are you making it seem like there isn't?

Quote from Generic

Just because you get your label gun out and tag a few people as scum Iso doesn't make it suddenly true.

Wow, what a strawman!

Quote from Generic »

Your suggestion is to fire the vig shot at an assumed s I'm player as opposed to an admitted neutral. Unless you know the s I'm team your plan could be a midmsfire, mine guarantees a non town kill.because I don't believe him on his win condition, simple as that.

There's little to no analysis to be gleaned from a dead Neutral. Everyone can just say "lynch the claimed Neutral because not town". If someone picks up the mask and shoots someone, town or not, then you can analyze more than "they shot Zinger because he was a Neutral". Besides, not shooting Zinger results in a far greater non-0 chance of killing mafia than shooting Zinger.

Quote from Generic

again i ask asenion. What fearmongering?

Where you said we can't trust Zinger because he is likely to make everyone lose If he wins. That's highly unlikely.

@Iso: I just posted like 5 comments on pages 7-11. Page 12 didn't have anything worth commenting on in my opinion. Sue me.

I also just remembered that Battlestar galactic is over an I can talk about it. Generic has done a 180 in attitude since that game where he claimed neutral and argued for the vig not to shoot him. IIRC he also continued arguin that it would be a bad play in the spectator chat. This attitude change makes no sense except that he wants us to waste the vig shot.

So, you think Generic is scum, then?

I couldn't understand what the hell you typed, so I said, "What?"

Also, I said that you and Seppel can't be scum together. So you're not one to talk of misreps.

Quote from Generic

How is that a 180? I clearly stated zinger isn't a survivor who wins WITSh town, but wins independently.

What role was I in that asenion? So putting aside self preservation, I represented the numbers FOR town as much as against them, zinger is no such thing.

How do you know this? I concur that there is a chance of that being the case, but we have 0 certainty in either direction at this point.

Why are you pushing for this so incredibly strongly?

Quote from Generic

Here is your exact quote...

Quote:
That said, this statement means that if you're scum, Seppel's town, and if Seppel's scum, you're town.

But Seppel's town so that narrows it down a bit. (No, I'm not saying that townSeppel = scumGeneric.)

That in no way reads as you saying we can't be scum together. No misrep there.

Want me to break it down even further or is it about now you will change the arguement again?

Are you capable of basic reading comprehension?

I said that scumSeppel = townGeneric and scumGeneric = townSeppel. Ergo, you can't be scum together. I also mentioned that Seppel is town, therefore, you are not autotown as a result of Seppel being scum because he isn't.

It's really that simple.

Quote from Generic

I should reword that. Yes it does mean we can't be scum together, but the part in brackets contradicts the part before it. So my point stands.

No, it doesn't. It just means that Seppel isn't scum. .-.

No. You're incapable of reading comprehension. I said that one of you being scum meant the other is town. I CLARIFIED WHAT I WAS SAYING by saying that townSeppel does not necessarily equate to scumGeneric. It's not. That. hard.

And I'm not going to explain the Link because those who know what I'm talking about know and those who don't, don't need to.

It's EXACTLY what I said it was, Generic. If you don't want to get frustrated, don't make ****ty pushes.

Quote from Generic

I personally feel that the person who possesses the vig shot shoot zinger who has declared himself neutral.
I don't buy the 'I win when I do this, and then you all carry on playing' story. He isn't a survivor who wins with one side or the other, he wins on his own, so that's enough for me to utilise the vig shot effectively without the potential for hitting town in error.

And I personally think that anyone who expresses a desire to see me killed is likely aligned with Majora, since my wincon requires him (or her) to die.

Quote from little lizard

I really liked Zinger.

Quote from little lizard

His posts. His discussion of the masks and the like seemed friendly. I obviously can't tell if it is all pro town but I like his presence in the game. You think he is creating chaos?

Double

I like you!

Quote from Void

Quote from Iso

Can't respond to anything because phone post but Seppel is probably confirmed town. Probably.

I haven't had time to read the whole game yet, but I would like to know how you're getting this information.

Me too.

Quote from JeY k

/snip
So, begs the question, why vig a non-threat to the town?
/snip

Quote from Iso

Which specific masks do you need to obtain? You did not answer that.

I did actually, twice. But let me make it abundantly clear for you: I am not after any specific masks in particular. I am after any four masks that have different abilities.

Quote from Iso

As for your ability, my question is simple: Do you remove the abilities from masks when you obtain them?

My answer is also simple: No.

Quote from Iso

Why is it scummy for me to ask you about your ability/win condition?

My role PM talks about Majora, who is the leader of the anti-town faction. I have surmised that his role PM also talks about me. You have expressed insight/knowledge about my role that I haven't revealed, leading me to suspect that you are Majora, or allied with him and able to speak to him outside the thread. Of the two I think it more likely the former because, as I have expressed before, I believe Majora to be a lone agent at the start that corrupts other individuals into his team, like a Cult Leader. This last piece is conjecture on my part, but whether I am right or wrong about it doesn't change the validity of my initial concerns regarding you.

Quote from Iso

We have a claimed Neutral in Zinger. It's my duty to make sure he's not going to dick us.

I only plan to 'dick' Majora. Not even Majora's scumbuddies, just Majora. Anyone else I will gladly help out in return for similar cooperation. You scratch my back I scratch yours. And my back really needs scratching, have you SEEN the friggin backpack I carry?!

Quote from Iso

@Jey RE: Zinger: Because he's a distraction. We don't know the exact details of his win condition, or even if he's being truthful about what he's told us. He's not town and that's the only part that matters.

Underlined bits are not true.

Quote from GiftsTrix

EBWODP: Well drat. He picked wrong mask. Well, Seppel will you kill Z? Also if it IS a day vig then we can treat it as having 2 lynches day 1 which is VERY helpful especially if it's Z and then a normal lynch.

Anyone who expresses a desire to see me killed is likely aligned with Majora, since my wincon requires him (or her) to die.

Quote from The Most Curious Thing

This is not pro-town, this is pro-AtheistGod. Your NLP leads me to believe you're not Majora, but since your behavior is still not entirely pro-town your best course would be to tread lightly.

I had to at least try and get to go second. It is in my best interests to do so, and it could potentially be in the town's best interest for me to go second also, since I would neutralize the threat of scum getting their hands on the Fierce Deity's Mask.

Quote from Arcadic

I don't trust Zinger. He is omitting a key part of his win-condition for no other reason than to deceive. Why not just claim exactly how you win if you want the town to help you? TL:DR, he's lying somehow.

Actually, I have full-claimed all the details of my wincon at least twice.

Quote from Arcadic

@Zinger : So, your ability tells you ALL of the abilities the mask has correct? That means, if your not lying, that no-one has the Deity mask as their true mask?

My ability does not tell me who, if anyone, has a given mask that I've investigated as their true mask. My ability MAY tell me the true mask superpower, possibly, but I have been unwilling to be clear on whether or not it does give me this info because I'd rather Majora not know if I can see True Powers or not.

Quote from Arcadic

Deity mask should be used as the 1st lynch today. Its actually hillarious that no-one has suggested this enough for it to be something i remember when reading. There is no other option for this mask, we have to use it today to ensure that its bullet is used by the town for the town's purpose, and nothing else.

If I get the Fierce Deity's Mask I can use it's power twice.

Quote from Asenion

Page 11.
Zinger, I have every intention of helping you win... Eventually. In the meantime we'll e takin those "boons" for the town's use. You belong to us now and in exchange for cooperation you get to live and I personally will help you kill Majora if we find him.

Great! Now if I can just find some way of confirming that you aren't Majora himself playing the WIFOM game then you will become my new best friend!

I must ask, is there subtext in what you are telling me at all? Because if there is then I think the message has been received. If not, then I am totally reading into this waaaay too much.

Quote from Iso

Also, why is using the Vig shot on a claimed Neutral more effective in your eyes than using it on scum?

Quote from Generic

Zinger clearly stated he has a win condition independent of all of us and I don't believe him when he says we all carry on after he wins.

That was my point, that was my idea for effective vig shot use. Iso to be fair countered with a strong arguement for why its less effective, but I personally feel my idea is safer for town.

Even if your suspicions against me are true (hint: they're not), I am far from completing my supposed "anti-town" wincon. Why would you suggest silencing me this early when I clearly have information that can help the town? If you legitimately perceive me as a threat to the town (again, I'm not) then the correct course of action is to draw out as much info as you can from me and then lynch me before I get close to reaching my wincon.

FoS: Generic.

Can we just lynch both of them and move on with our lives?

Generic
But I know the pain of what you went through. I've done similar as you know.

Ftr, I've understood Iso since he started explaining everything to you.

Quote from Asenion

Can we just lynch both of them and move on with our lives?

Do you find both them to be Scum because of their interactions or do you find them to be Scum independently?

No subtext Zinger. I'm happy to let you win, but you have to do whatever the town asks to maintain my support. On that note, I have a way to guarantee you never get the Fierce Deity Mask if it becomes necessary to exercise it.

Independent Void. You, Generic, Iso. My opinion of you is improving though.

Quote from Generic

That is either very ballsy or simple fanaticism.

*****es don't know about my title as LoZ fanatic.

Except Iso. Iso knows my love of Zelda (especially Fierce Deity) quite a lot.

---

I have a good feeling about Iso. That's a really good sign.

I have a really bad feeling about Generic. That's a really bad sign for Generic.

It's too bad I have nothing original to add. -shrug-

Quote from Zinger2099

Quote from Void

Quote from Iso

Can't respond to anything because phone post but Seppel is probably confirmed town. Probably.

I haven't had time to read the whole game yet, but I would like to know how you're getting this information.

Me too.

Tough.

Quote from Zinger2099 »

Quote from Iso

Which specific masks do you need to obtain? You did not answer that.

I did actually, twice. But let me make it abundantly clear for you: I am not after any specific masks in particular. I am after any four masks that have different abilities.

You did not make that clear. It is now clear. Thanks.

Quote from Zinger2099 »

Quote from Iso

Why is it scummy for me to ask you about your ability/win condition?

My role PM talks about Majora, who is the leader of the anti-town faction. I have surmised that his role PM also talks about me. You have expressed insight/knowledge about my role that I haven't revealed, leading me to suspect that you are Majora, or allied with him and able to speak to him outside the thread. Of the two I think it more likely the former because, as I have expressed before, I believe Majora to be a lone agent at the start that corrupts other individuals into his team, like a Cult Leader. This last piece is conjecture on my part, but whether I am right or wrong about it doesn't change the validity of my initial concerns regarding you.

What inside info about your role?

Quote from Zinger2099 »

Quote from Iso

@Jey RE: Zinger: Because he's a distraction. We don't know the exact details of his win condition, or even if he's being truthful about what he's told us. He's not town and that's the only part that matters.

Underlined bits are not true.

Yes they are, unless you plan on copy+pasting your full role PM (which I do not recommend because modkills are a thing).

Quote from Zinger2099 »

Quote from GiftsTrix

EBWODP: Well drat. He picked wrong mask. Well, Seppel will you kill Z? Also if it IS a day vig then we can treat it as having 2 lynches day 1 which is VERY helpful especially if it's Z and then a normal lynch.

Anyone who expresses a desire to see me killed is likely aligned with Majora, since my wincon requires him (or her) to die.

That's probably the most anti-town thing you've said all game.

Quote from Zinger2099 »

Quote from Arcadic

Deity mask should be used as the 1st lynch today. Its actually hillarious that no-one has suggested this enough for it to be something i remember when reading. There is no other option for this mask, we have to use it today to ensure that its bullet is used by the town for the town's purpose, and nothing else.

If I get the Fierce Deity's Mask I can use it's power twice.

Funny how you neglected to mention this earlier.

If you have information that will "help the town", why haven't you told the town what it is, given that you have every incentive to attend to the town's whims?

Quote from Asenion

Can we just lynch both of them and move on with our lives?

Who, Generic and Zinger? The latter would be a waste of a lynch, but sure.

Quote from Asenion

No subtext Zinger. I'm happy to let you win, but you have to do whatever the town asks to maintain my support. On that note, I have a way to guarantee you never get the Fierce Deity Mask if it becomes necessary to exercise it.

No you don't.

Quote from JeY k

I have a good feeling about Iso. That's a really good sign.

I have a really bad feeling about Generic. That's a really bad sign for Generic.

Quote from Generic

I come back after calming down to threats from the Iso fan club?

You talk with zero content Jey, just crap about ****ing zelda love and bad feelings.

Good for you. Knew it was a mistake signing back in. Get the draft over with so the wolves can wagon me.

"Threats from the Iso fan club", which apparently consists of the following members:

1.

Oh. I guess nobody was threatening you.

Unless you're referring to Jey, in which case I'd love to know what exactly was so threatening about what she said.

Quote from Generic

My apologies to all, especially Iso and Jey for my attitude.

A RL occurrence which I hadn't thought had affected me clearly has on reading back over the last few hours.

I will be going V/LA from site while I sort myself out.

Again apologies for the awful attitude.

Hope things get better for you, Generic.

tired from work. I've been trying to keep tabs on the game all day but haven't had a chance to properly think about things
Something soonish from me. I think Generic is probably town for the sincerity in his "i need to step away"

Zinger yet again revealing more info about his role despite his claims that he is being open and forward with the town, only just now he finally revealed his actual win condition, and the fact that he powers UP any mask, and the fact that he didn't even reveal everything there was to reveal about the Deity mask, the one mask he wants his hands on? Your actions are not beneficial to the town, they are entirely self serving the more you talk. You know what we do with anti-town players? Hint, its not live.

Seriously? Zero comments on using the deity mask as a 2nd lynch? Bueller? The only way the town can be sure the shot is used properly is to vote on it just like a normal lynch. The mask is safest on someone random, rather than lying on the ground. I'd obviously would rather it be on the townies person possible, but its too early for that. I'd rather have it on someone who can be trusted to do what the town asks, iRebel and Guardman are people i trust with that responsibility.

I'll say this so there are no questions. Using the Deity Mask without the consent of the town is 100% an anti-town action, and i will push for your lynch once you do it.

I'll shoot for town consensus if I get FD by chance.

Arcadic, I'm so far off your wavelength on behavioral reads that I didn't want to comment on anything in your post. But sure, using the communal Daykill is a fine option.

Quote from Arcadic

Zinger yet again revealing more info about his role despite his claims that he is being open and forward with the town, only just now he finally revealed his actual win condition, and the fact that he powers UP any mask, and the fact that he didn't even reveal everything there was to reveal about the Deity mask, the one mask he wants his hands on? Your actions are not beneficial to the town, they are entirely self serving the more you talk. You know what we do with anti-town players? Hint, its not live.

Seriously? Zero comments on using the deity mask as a 2nd lynch? Bueller? The only way the town can be sure the shot is used properly is to vote on it just like a normal lynch. The mask is safest on someone random, rather than lying on the ground. I'd obviously would rather it be on the townies person possible, but its too early for that. I'd rather have it on someone who can be trusted to do what the town asks, iRebel and Guardman are people i trust with that responsibility.

I'll say this so there are no questions. Using the Deity Mask without the consent of the town is 100% an anti-town action, and i will push for your lynch once you do it.

There is so much wrong with this post. Seriously, do you just fail at reading or what?

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume for a second that you aren't just looking for any excuse to attack me (because if you are none of this matters), and actually address your ridiculous points.

Quote from Arcadic

Zinger yet again revealing more info about his role despite his claims that he is being open and forward with the town,

I am being open and forward with the town. I have revealed far more about my role within the first 200+ posts than I probably ever have before in any game. Have I revealed absolutely everything? No, nor have I ever stated that I have revealed everything. I have revealed exactly as much info as I feel will be both helpful to me and to the town. Anything I haven't revealed I have withheld because I felt it might not be helpful for me or to the town to reveal it.

Quote from Arcadic

only just now he finally revealed his actual win condition,

Slander. I have revealed my win condition multiple times already, in full, the earliest of which is on the first page (according to my view). If you misunderstood my win condition you should have asked for a clarification like Iso did instead of just calling me a liar.

Quote from Arcadic

and the fact that he powers UP any mask,

I don't power up any mask, except maybe my True Mask. If I get the Fierce Deity's Mask the fact that I will be able to use its power twice is in no way a power up of the Mask.

Quote from Arcadic

and the fact that he didn't even reveal everything there was to reveal about the Deity mask, the one mask he wants his hands on?

You are fishing pretty hard here, but I will humour you. I have revealed all I know about the Deity mask.

Quote from Arcadic

I'll say this so there are no questions. Using the Deity Mask without the consent of the town is 100% an anti-town action, and i will push for your lynch once you do it.

I have no intention on using the FDM without the town's consent.

Now I have answered your points, which weren't even directed at me to begin with, so now's your turn to humour me Arcadic. If you had such an issue with me, my role, and how I am playing, why did you not ask for me to be more revealing or specific? Why start your crusade without checking your facts first?

I of course suspect it is because you have ulterior motives and just want to see me hang for whatever reason the rest of the town will buy at this point, but that's me. Why don't you explain your actions.

Quote from Iso »

Because there's no sense in voting if the votecount resets as soon as we finish the draft (at least, if the votes even count before then). I'm pretty sure we can't lynch someone until everyone picks up a mask, though.

I originally thought this was just a wagon/reaction thing but I'm guessing not.

Quote from Iso »

I'm quite aware that you intended it to be perceived as a joke.

Erm. Okay. You don't have to be so cold. And it was a joke hence the use of a smiley...

Quote from Iso »

Why, do you and your scumbuddies lack such an ability?

Why did you even ask this?

How did you expect I would answer as scum?
How did you expect I would answer as town?

It should be fairly obvious from a design standpoint that to prevent utter decimation by the combination of mask abilities + player abilities that the scum would have a power to destroy a mask.

Quote from Iso »

I don't have a problem with your playstyle. I have a problem with your motive.

And what would that be?

That I was postulating about how to use the Fierce Diety Mask?

Quote from Iso »

Just tell me a site.

Ok.



Still want those links?

Quote from Iso »

Typically, townies don't need to be self-aware. They post naturally, because they are town.

I agree with you mostly but I also look at everything on a case by case basis. There are moments when town should act self aware. You don't seem to be really doing that here.

Quote from Iso »

I'll take a "You Tried" if you flip town.

And I'm theorizing that because of game balance. My game, Survival Horror, had 4 scum and 2 Neutrals. Given that we already have a claimed Neutral, I'm leaning towards a smaller number of scum, but since we don't know Zinger's full ability, we don't know how his role affects the overall balance.

It'll go next to my competitor's ribbons on my trophy wall. ;_;

I was thinking you were saying 5-6 scum AND 1-2 neutrals.

Quote from Iso »

Who has more to hide when they're posting - town or mafia?

Therefore, who has more reason to be unnaturally self-aware?

I'd say town and mafia have roughly equal amounts of information to hide, role wise at least.

Quote from Iso »

I don't believe in universal scumtells.

That brings me back to to my "You don't seem to be applying case by case"

But then again I guess in your eyes I could be the case that is scum. So... meh.

Quote from Iso »

Unless reasoning is provided behind why a player is choosing a mask (which is probably a bad idea for the town), then why would another person's pick affect your own?

???

There seems to be a pretty clear reason why another person's pick could potentially affect yours. Especially when you factor in the scumhunting down during the draft phase.

Quote from Iso »

What are Jey's misreads?

This too seemed like an obvious answer. I think someone else was confused by Arian's comment and I am having trouble understanding how.

Quote from Iso »

But Seppel. He's scum.

But Iso. I'm not.
You're starting to look like Waluigi. A little bit.
Is that what you two are going for?

Quote from Iso »

It's not pro-town. Neutrals play only to fulfill their win conditions. Whether they decide to help the town in the process or not is entirely dependent on whether or not it will aid them in winning faster.

I realize that but it always seems like such a waste to just cast away the third party. I believe Zinger and I am willing to extend an Olive Branch to him but apparently his sins have made him incorrigible!

I have some theories about a couple of the masks that may seem obvious to people with brains and/or people familiar with the game. I probably will out one specific theory after the draft is over because I don't predict those masks to be chosen. If they then I will have to reconsider depending on who gets what but that also makes me worry about the potential happening of a mafia power forcing a player to choose a specific mask.

Iso, forgive me if this is rude, but I haven't really been reading your back and forth with Generic... From what I have skimmed over he thinks you are scum and you think that as well? What do you think about his slot after reading his "step away" post?

Quote from Asieon »

Still not sure what to think of the Lizard

Let me help you. I'm town. There. That was easy.

Quote from Arcadic »

Deity mask should be used as the 1st lynch today. Its actually hillarious that no-one has suggested this enough for it to be something i remember when reading. There is no other option for this mask, we have to use it today to ensure that its bullet is used by the town for the town's purpose, and nothing else.

Why is it hilarious that no one suggested it at that point?

Quote from Void »

I don't have a preference to which mask I get. So pick me towards the end so others can get what they want.

Really? You aren't even going to try and get a particular mask?

I don't even know how to take this post.

Quote from Iso »

[quote=Arcadic]But i don't want it on lizard, iso, seppel, zinger, asenion, digi, or Void. Guardman is another option to hold the mask for the day.

Why?

Yea, that list looked weird to me too.

Quote from Jey K »

However, if the scum gets it, it's going to be one hell of a nightmare for town so someone who is town please don't be afraid to take some hate in order to keep that mask's power safe.

Why do you say that?

If a scum gets it and is not the true wearer, they either out themselves D1 and get lynched by killing an obvtown person or they attempt to kill someone (obvtown or not depending on how lucky they think they are) which shouldn't be too much of a problem if other town with powers do their job right.

Quote from Iso »

Just because you get your label gun out and tag a few people as scum Iso doesn't make it suddenly true.

I think its the ego personally but I'd rather not get into personal attacks. Solves nothing and only makes it harder for people to read.

Quote from Iso »

No. You're incapable of reading comprehension. I said that one of you being scum meant the other is town. I CLARIFIED WHAT I WAS SAYING by saying that townSeppel does not necessarily equate to scumGeneric. It's not. That. hard.

To be fair, using the equal signs was probably a bad idea to try and illustrate your point.

Quote from Zinger »

And I personally think that anyone who expresses a desire to see me killed is likely aligned with Majora, since my wincon requires him (or her) to die

Don't jump so quickly to that assumption. We really don't have any reason to trust a Third Party even if you have the NLP. It is only natural instinct to be wary of something unknown.

Quote from Zinger »

I like you!

It's too bad one of us (at least) is going to be dead by day's end if prevailing winds, well, prevail.

Quote from Zinger »

Me too.

You're familiar with the game shouldn't be too hard to piece together a few likely reasons...

Quote from Zinger »

Of the two I think it more likely the former because, as I have expressed before, I believe Majora to be a lone agent at the start that corrupts other individuals into his team, like a Cult Leader.

But it already looks like the affects of Majora's evil have set in, flavor wise. he would at least have the 4 bosses as members at this point?

Quote from Zinger »

If I get the Fierce Deity's Mask I can use it's power twice.

That changes a lot actually. Time to think!

Quote from Zinger »

If you have information that will "help the town", why haven't you told the town what it is, given that you have every incentive to attend to the town's whims?

I'd probably say because he wanted to use one shot to kill you and didn't want to scare the town into not giving it to him.

Quote from Arcadic »

Zinger yet again revealing more info about his role despite his claims that he is being open and forward with the town(1), only just now he finally revealed his actual win condition[2, and the fact that he powers UP any mask(3, and the fact that he didn't even reveal everything there was to reveal about the Deity mask, the one mask he wants his hands on? Your actions are not beneficial to the town, they are entirely self serving the more you talk. You know what we do with anti-town players? Hint, its not live.

Seriously? Zero comments on using the deity mask as a 2nd lynch? Bueller? The only way the town can be sure the shot is used properly is to vote on it just like a normal lynch. The mask is safest on someone random, rather than lying on the ground. I'd obviously would rather it be on the townies person possible, but its too early for that. I'd rather have it on someone who can be trusted to do what the town asks, iRebel and Guardman are people i trust with that responsibility.

I'll say this so there are no questions. Using the Deity Mask without the consent of the town is 100% an anti-town action, and i will push for your lynch once you do it.

I must be misremembering/misreading things things but can you quote the relevant portions of Zinger just now saying these things (1, 2, 3)? I bolded and numbered them after the statements I am curious about.

Again you bring up the fact that no one has been talking about making the daykill the second lynch, why? This goes back to my earlier question to you?

I think a good question to ask Zinger at this point due to his NLP is...

Based on your investigation and further clarification of the Fierce Diety Mask, does the daykill end the day? Is the ability Rapid Action?

Quote from Zinger »

I don't power up any mask, except maybe my True Mask. If I get the Fierce Deity's Mask the fact that I will be able to use its power twice is in no way a power up of the Mask.

I am having trouble reconciling your previous statement of "Fierce Diety Mask gives you a 1 shot vig kill" to "I can shoot twice with the Fierce Diety Mask". Might as well ask it now. Zinger, is the Fierce Diety Mask your True Mask?

Quote from Zinger »

I have revealed all I know about the Deity mask.

This can't be trusted since you haven't fully clarified/revealed whether or not you investigate the Superpower given when worn by a True Wearer. I am all for working with you but you aren't in the bargaining position.

I'm working on a few leads right now but Seppel should choose a mask to just move things along.

Quote from litte lizard »

Why do you say that?

If a scum gets it and is not the true wearer, they either out themselves D1 and get lynched by killing an obvtown person or they attempt to kill someone (obvtown or not depending on how lucky they think they are) which shouldn't be too much of a problem if other town with powers do their job right.

From what I understand, Zinger explained FD Mask abiltiy being able to kill whenever - day or night. Scum wouldn't have to out themselves D1.

If we convince a scum wearer who we believed was town and directed them to kill another townie we suspected as scum, well, that's just a barrel of piss being drained all over our heads. If we convince the wearer to hit a target who flips scum, they would get coasting powers through most of the game (barring a lucky copping or something).

This is all speculation and chance, but scum getting this mask is bad. If we consensualize to lynch whoever picks FD first, why would scum draft it? that's also a bad idea.

I think iffff we just have someone who is confident town snag it, what is there to lose? It's all really tricky. I just have a bad feeling that if scum get it, it's going to be a nightmare. I'm not good at translating my intuition to plain English yet but it's worked so far for me in Mafia.

---

Not liking little lizard so far.

Not sure how it was relevant to the questions about my ability I was asking the mod, but Taredas told me that the game is full reveal on death. Just thought people should know.

That information was included in the rules.

Scum can't really snag the FDM without outing themselves. We can easily wait a day or two, have someone pick it up day 2 or 3, and then use it on the first lynch target of the day, giving us the double lynch when we want it. The whole 'strong town take it' is WIFOMy as hell and doesn't provide much upside over saving FDM and using it as a double lynch once we are more settled into the game.

Quote from AtheistGod

That infowhencemation was included in the rules.

Scum can't really snag the FDM without outing themselves. We can easily wait a day or two, have someone pick it up day 2 or 3, and then use it on the first lynch target of the day, giving us the double lynch when we want it. The whole 'strong town take it' is WIFOMy as hell and doesn't provide much upside over saving FDM and using it as a double lynch once we are more settled into the game.

AFAIK you can't just drop your mask whenever to pick up a new mask

Quote from Asenion

Not sure how it was relevant to the questions about my ability I was asking the mod, but Taredas told me that the game is full reveal on death. Just thought people should know.

Not exactly. Instead of the full role PM, each player's Information Block will be posted when they die. For example, this is the Information Block from the sample Professor Shikashi role PM:

Identity: Professor Shikashi
Alignment: Town
Classification: Astronomer
Role Type: Sample Town Role PM
Alias: Non-Player Character
True Mask: None

---

Quote from GiftsTrix

AFAIK you can't just drop your mask whenever to pick up a new mask

This is correct. Once you have picked up a Mask, you cannot drop it unless an ability says otherwise.

---

Additional notes:
- Generic's V/LA is noted.
- With the pace of posting this game, the slow drafting of masks, and the implementation of the autodraft option, I am considering lowering the time per draft to 24 hours. If this occurs, it will take effect either this Friday (August 16) or this Sunday (August 18). Please plan accordingly. - Tar

It is still Seppel's turn to draft a mask. He will draft a mask at random if he does not draft within the next 25 hours.

Quote from GiftsTrix

Quote from AtheistGod

That infowhencemation was included in the rules.

Scum can't really snag the FDM without outing themselves. We can easily wait a day or two, have someone pick it up day 2 or 3, and then use it on the first lynch target of the day, giving us the double lynch when we want it. The whole 'strong town take it' is WIFOMy as hell and doesn't provide much upside over saving FDM and using it as a double lynch once we are more settled into the game.

AFAIK you can't just drop your mask whenever to pick up a new mask

There are clearly abilities that facilitate the changing of masks. They are not locked in for the entire game. Yes, doing it this way will cost one of those abilities, but it makes everything simpler and allows players to "investigate" different masks.

@AG I think it is foolish to assume we will have that much control over mask manipulation that we can plan mask specific abilities for future days. ignoring probable scum interference , The draft isn't anywhere close to done so we have no idea how the mechanics will fall.

I think 24 hours to pick should be fine. IMO we've gotten most of the time we needed for this stage of the game and we need to see people start picking masks for activity and content to stay high.

Quote from AtheistGod

That information was included in the rules.

Scum can't really snag the FDM without outing themselves. We can easily wait a day or two, have someone pick it up day 2 or 3, and then use it on the first lynch target of the day, giving us the double lynch when we want it. The whole 'strong town take it' is WIFOMy as hell and doesn't provide much upside over saving FDM and using it as a double lynch once we are more settled into the game.

...Actually this makes a lot of sense.

As tempted as I was I will not draft FD Mask when it's my turn =_= opportunity of a lifetime though @_@

I hate posting from a phone. Hate it. Hate it. Hate it.

So I have this ability called Mimic. Basically when I put on a mask I copy its abilities so that if later I take off the mask or it is destroyed or whatever, I still retain the ability. This does not steal or remove the ability from the mask itself, just copies it for me. The wording on this is ambiguous and led me to believe that it would allow me to use the power of the FDM a second time. Mod just clarified for me that this is not the case. 1/shot abilities, while still able to be copied, can not be used twice due to this power. So I was wrong when I said I would be able to use the FDM ability twice. This new knowledge also means that masks with 1/shot abilities are much less useful for me than others, so I probably won't chase down the FDM after all.

The FDM action is a rapid action. What relevance is this? What is a rapid action anyway? I honestly didn't even register this as a thing until someone asked me if it was a rapid action. I'm not sure what this means. I don't think it ends the day unless rapid action means the day ends.

The FDM is not my true mask.

So what you are saying is... that you lied to us.

My role is very complex and I'm still trying to figure some of it out. My apologies if I make errors in what I say as I do so.

Rapid Action means, IF I AM PICTURING THIS CORRECTLY, you can perform at any time and the results are instantaneous, and if there are after-effects to follow (like someone being able to pick up a rapid-action dropped mask), early bird gets the worm.

Anyone is free to correct me, that's just my opinion.

Quote from Asenion

Arcadic, I'm so far off your wavelength on behavioral reads that I didn't want to comment on anything in your post.

Please explain.

Quote from little lizard

Quote from Iso »

I'm quite aware that you intended it to be perceived as a joke.

Erm. Okay. You don't have to be so cold. And it was a joke hence the use of a smiley...

That doesn't make it any less scummy.

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Iso »

Why, do you and your scumbuddies lack such an ability?

Why did you even ask this?

How did you expect I would answer as scum?
How did you expect I would answer as town?

It should be fairly obvious from a design standpoint that to prevent utter decimation by the combination of mask abilities + player abilities that the scum would have a power to destroy a mask.

It was rhetorical, actually. I expected either this response or a sarcastic one, regardless of your alignment, though the lack of sarcasm is actually a small point in your favor. Hm.

Why do you think scum wouldn't just have a mask Vanillifier? Why do you think the Neutral doesn't play into balance factoring here? What if the scum just get really good masks?

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Iso »

I don't have a problem with your playstyle. I have a problem with your motive.

And what would that be?

That I was postulating about how to use the Fierce Diety Mask?

No, that's your action. What I perceive your motive to be is anti-town.

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Iso »

Just tell me a site.

Ok.



Still want those links?

Nope. Just wanted to know what meta you come from.

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Iso »

Typically, townies don't need to be self-aware. They post naturally, because they are town.

I agree with you mostly but I also look at everything on a case by case basis. There are moments when town should act self aware. You don't seem to be really doing that here.

What should I have been self-aware about? Why would I need to be self-aware?

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Iso »

I'll take a "You Tried" if you flip town.

And I'm theorizing that because of game balance. My game, Survival Horror, had 4 scum and 2 Neutrals. Given that we already have a claimed Neutral, I'm leaning towards a smaller number of scum, but since we don't know Zinger's full ability, we don't know how his role affects the overall balance.

It'll go next to my competitor's ribbons on my trophy wall. ;_;

I was thinking you were saying 5-6 scum AND 1-2 neutrals.

No way, that'd be absurd for 18 players. It would never pass review.

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Iso »

Who has more to hide when they're posting - town or mafia?

Therefore, who has more reason to be unnaturally self-aware?

I'd say town and mafia have roughly equal amounts of information to hide, role wise at least.

I presume by "rolewise" you mean "power role vanilla etc.". That doesn't actually answer my question, though. I asked you who has more to hide when they're posting. The correct answer is "mafia", because they have to hide their alignments as well as their role.

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Iso »

I don't believe in universal scumtells.

That brings me back to to my "You don't seem to be applying case by case"

But then again I guess in your eyes I could be the case that is scum. So... meh.

If I'm seeing something you do as scummy given my perception of your play, how am I not taking the situation into consideration? Aside from your own role, do you know something I don't?

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Iso »

Unless reasoning is provided behind why a player is choosing a mask (which is probably a bad idea for the town), then why would another person's pick affect your own?

???

There seems to be a pretty clear reason why another person's pick could potentially affect yours. Especially when you factor in the scumhunting down during the draft phase.

I'm just not seeing why "Player A picked the Zora Mask" should affect the order I prioritize the masks in. Do explain.

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Iso »

But Seppel. He's scum.

But Iso. I'm not.
You're starting to look like Waluigi. A little bit.
Is that what you two are going for?

Someone MS Paint edited one of my past avatars and Seppel's avatar into Mariso and Seppeluigi once.

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Iso »

It's not pro-town. Neutrals play only to fulfill their win conditions. Whether they decide to help the town in the process or not is entirely dependent on whether or not it will aid them in winning faster.

I realize that but it always seems like such a waste to just cast away the third party. I believe Zinger and I am willing to extend an Olive Branch to him but apparently his sins have made him incorrigible!

Yes, being a Neutral does, in fact, make him incorrigible.

Quote from little lizard »

Iso, forgive me if this is rude, but I haven't really been reading your back and forth with Generic... From what I have skimmed over he thinks you are scum and you think that as well? What do you think about his slot after reading his "step away" post?

I think your pronoun usage could use some work. No, I don't think I'm scum. I do, however, think Generic is. His "step back" post gives him person points but not town points.

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Iso »

Quote from Arcadic »

But i don't want it on lizard, iso, seppel, zinger, asenion, digi, or Void. Guardman is another option to hold the mask for the day.

Why?

Yea, that list looked weird to me too.

Why?

Quote from little lizard »

If a scum gets it and is not the true wearer, they either out themselves D1 and get lynched by killing an obvtown person or they attempt to kill someone (obvtown or not depending on how lucky they think they are) which shouldn't be too much of a problem if other town with powers do their job right.

If scum grab the Fierce Deity mask, don't you think they're gonna try their damndest to force a mislynch so that they can take out a townie for free with the consensus of the town on Day 1?

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Zinger »

And I personally think that anyone who expresses a desire to see me killed is likely aligned with Majora, since my wincon requires him (or her) to die

Don't jump so quickly to that assumption. We really don't have any reason to trust a Third Party even if you have the NLP. It is only natural instinct to be wary of something unknown.

Woah, woah, woah. Didn't you JUST say you wanted to extend the olive branch to Zinger? Why, even objectively, would you say "Let's trust him!" and then say "There's no reason to trust him!" in the SAME POST?

Quote from little lizard »

But it already looks like the affects of Majora's evil have set in, flavor wise. he would at least have the 4 bosses as members at this point?

Oh? Tell me why you think this, and what the bosses were.

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Iso »

If you have information that will "help the town", why haven't you told the town what it is, given that you have every incentive to attend to the town's whims?

I'd probably say because he wanted to use one shot to kill you and didn't want to scare the town into not giving it to him.

wat

Quote from little lizard »

Quote from Zinger »

I have revealed all I know about the Deity mask.

This can't be trusted since you haven't fully clarified/revealed whether or not you investigate the Superpower given when worn by a True Wearer. I am all for working with you but you aren't in the bargaining position.

WAT

Quote from little lizard »

I'm working on a few leads right now but Seppel should choose a mask to just move things along.

But shouldn't he be, oh, y'know, taking AtheistGod's mask pick into consideration? After all, you seem to think that's relevant.

Quote from JeY k

If we convince a scum wearer who we believed was town and directed them to kill another townie we suspected as scum, well, that's just a barrel of piss being drained all over our heads. If we convince the wearer to hit a target who flips scum, they would get coasting powers through most of the game (barring a lucky copping or something).

Quote from JeY k »

Not liking little lizard so far.

Why?

Quote from Taredas

- With the pace of posting this game, the slow drafting of masks, and the implementation of the autodraft option, I am considering lowering the time per draft to 24 hours. If this occurs, it will take effect either this Friday (August 16) or this Sunday (August 18). Please plan accordingly. - Tar

And this is exactly why we should autodraft.

Quote from Asenion

I think 24 hours to pick should be fine. IMO we've gotten most of the time we needed for this stage of the game and we need to see people start picking masks for activity and content to stay high.

I want to keep people talking, though.

-

So Zinger is a mask ability thief, albeit a less anti-town version than I thought initially.

-

Quote from Asenion

So what you are saying is... that you lied to us.

This is a scum post.