Um...no offense, but that sounds anti-fun. Can I ask what the purpose of an NLP is in a game based on roleplaying, deception, and manipulation? Not to mention the scum team.
Simple, the purpose is to add an extra level of complexity to the game for me to make it more fun. Also, my NLP does not in any way hinder roleplaying, deception, or manipulation, it just requires me to approach those things from a different angle. I have been playing mafia for years and have had my NLP for almost as long. Never have I found it to be anti-fun, either for myself or others.
Why openly declare you are not going to lie? That should be a given if you are town. So you were either considering playing a gambit or the statement itself is a gambit.
See point number 5. I openly declare it because, according to the terms of my NLP, I MUST openly declare that I am using it for that game for it to be considered in effect. If I didn't openly declare it then it would be nullified for the duration of that game.
I won't lie about anything except where it concerns my alignment.
So you are going to lie about your alignment? Why would a town need to clarify that, unless they intended to say they were mafia!?
unvote, vote zinger
I think you scumslipped there in a rather hilarious way.
See point number 2. I didn't say that I would lie about my alignment, I simply said that my alignment is not subject to the promise that I won't lie. Obviously, if I couldn't lie about my alignment, then playing Mafia would be impossible. It is not a scumslip, I was simply explaining how my NLP works, which is clearly defined here for anyone who cares to read it.
If you want to play without lying, that's fine. When you start talking about it, you are just making an excuse to not explain your mindsets and ignore questions.
I only mentioned it because Point 5 of my NLP requires me to do so. All the further discussion about my NLP has been prompted by others, I am merely answering questions.
@ Zinger: I'd like a detailed explanation (ie, more then three or four sentences) as to why you have this "no lie policy", and whether or not it is uniformly used; if not, then how do you determine when to use it?. In addition to that can you supply completed games from the Wizards forum (I'm assuming you've played a lot there given the age of your NLP) to support your answer.
When I first started playing Mafia (years ago) I ran into some difficulty because I took it waaaay too personally whenever someone accused me of lying. Call my play scummy, fine, that didn't bother me, but it really got under my skin whenever someone called me a liar. At first I saw this as a necessary evil that comes with playing a game based on deception, but then I witnessed another player who had a No Lie Policy of his own that allowed him to play games without ever being accused of lying. I really liked/admired the way he played and so I adopted my own NLP as a result (which evolved to be different from his in the end but still the same overall concept). It is not uniformly used, though I would say I use it in over 90% of the games I play in. I decide if I want to use it after reading my role and the decision is usually based on how complicated it will be to keep up a NLP given the role I have. The caveat is that I MUST confirm the use of my NLP in the same post I make to confirm receipt of role or my NLP is void for that entire game (even if I failed to confirm it simply because I forgot). This is clearly explained as point 5 of my NLP rules. Links to some previous games I played where I have used my NLP:
InFamous Mafia Mafia-Aligned, MVP, almost single-handedly won game for scum team.
explain to me what he means when he says he won't lie about anything but his alignment?
It means that any statements about my alignment are not subject to my NLP. This clause is important to state regardless of what alignment I am playing because without this clause using a NLP in Mafia games would be impossible.
First off, town shouldn't have to say, Hey guys I'm gonna tell the truth cause I'm town! The only motive for doing this is to try and bolster town cred. Town telling the truth should be a given because Town don't have a reason to lie unless they are gambitting. This coupled with the slip of he will only lie about his role when he has no reason to as town makes him scum.
Actually, Town lie all the time in Mafia games. I do not, which is why I started the NLP in the first place so that when I say I am not lying people take it seriously. I do have to say I'm going to use it, regardless of alignment, because otherwise, if there was no structure to how it is used, it would invalidate the point of having it.
Thats not a reference to a mindset from two years ago, thats him telling us how he intends to play this game. How have i got that wrong? he even came back afterwards in post 29 to clarify that he was stating his intentions GOING FORWARDS.
So how have i got that wrong?
Had you clicked the link and looked you would see I was not linking to a previous Mafia game (ie. mindset from two years ago), I was linking to a list of the terms of my NLP, clearly stated for everyone to see. When I provided a tl;dr, I was providing a quick summary of those terms which clearly state that I will not lie except when it concerns my alignment. So no, you are wrong, I wasn't stating my "intentions" on how I was going to play going forward, I was stating clearly how my NLP functions (which, I guess also tells you a thing or two about my intentions since I am using my NLP currently, but that's a moot point). I was not saying that I will lie about my alignment, I was saying that my alignment is the only thing I may lie about in the game.
What i dont understand is how he is happy to declare in this game he will be lying about his alignment.
I am happy to declare that I am able to lie about my alignment without abusing the terms of my NLP, yes, without which my NLP would be unusable in Mafia games. Stating however that I declared that I will lie about my alignment is a gross misrepresentation and is putting words in my mouth.
I would assert that we're both taking implicit information away from his statement. It sounds like you're hearing:
"I won't lie about anything in this game except where it concerns my alignment."
I'm hearing:
"I won't lie about anything in any game except where it concerns my alignment."
As this seems to be policy/SOP for him (as demonstrated by the other games he's in on this site), I feel that "in any game" is the more logical assumption.
The EXCEPT logically leads to the IF. It's a reversal of the statement. "I won't lie except regarding my alignment." == "If I lie, it will be regarding my alignment."
Either way if we get away from the so called scumslip, I still don't understand what motive he would have for stating the NLP other than trying to score town cred.
Because I have to. See point 5 of my NLP, which clearly states that I must declare its use in the confirmation post or it becomes void for the remainder of that game.
If he would consider lying about his alignment, why would he even mention the NLP to begin with? Lying about your alignment would kinda defeat the purpose of a pledge to not lie....
Not at all. If I were to tell you that I was a Roleblocker, for example, you would know that I was not bluffing for the point of some gambit. If I were to counter-claim someone who had claimed Doc and say I was the Doc, you would again know I wasn't bluffing. There are plenty of uses for a NLP without factoring in alignment. I am neither a Roleblocker nor a Doctor in this game, these were hypothetical analogies. As for why I mention it in the first place, see point 5 of my NLP.
It boils down to this: the way NLP is set/up makes it impossible to catch a scum Zinger because he wants us to be ok with him not explaining himself or answering questions that are inconvenient.
Not at all, I will answer questions as much as anyone who doesn't have a NLP to the best of my ability, and I certainly don't use it as an excuse not to play the game that I obviously enjoy playing to the point where I would invent the policy in the first place.
I like you Zinger. I'm also making it my business to ensure that you don't survive to end-game in any game I share with you. Lord help us if you, Iso, and I are all in a game, because my votes will be pretty much set.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
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Unvote, Vote: Generic because he is probably scum chasing after what he perceived as low-hanging fruit.
"Hey look guys! We got us a perfect wagon for Day 1: A VI who admits he will lie about his alignment, it's iron-clad!"
Not.
OMGUS!!!
I think the NLP is null, it was a nice way to get out of RVS.
Generic reads town to me atm.
I don't think Generic should claim any more than he has, him being in claim range (with a RVS nonetheless) seems just lazy with the halfhearted case that's been tossed about.
I'm liking Zinger and Guardman the least on those who are voting 4 Generic.
I didn't even realize the Generic wagon was serious. I figured it was just the usual wagon Generic gets most games and brushes off. I don't have a good read on him yet, but it looks like I might need to acquire one soon.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Again, you are putting words in my mouth Generic. There is a term for what you are doing, I believe it is called mudslinging, and it is not very pro-town.
You are doing a terrible job at convincing me that my vote on you is not worth pursuing.
Wrong. I decided to vote you because on multiple occasions thus far you have misrepresented me in defiance of logic or reason and decided to vote me for your blatant misrepresentations without bothering to wait for my own response to your accusations, and it looks very much like a scum attempt to grasp at low-hanging fruit.
The irony is, you then bashed me for voting you without waiting for your response when in fact you first did that to me.
Actually, attacking you for the same reasons you attacked me does not make me a hypocrite. I am only made a hypocrite if I attack you for exhibiting behavior that I have exhibited myself.
Pray tell, what is your opinion of Asenion re: NLP. I don't think one can get more opportunistic than policy lynching.
There is a big difference in that Generic is trying to get Zing lynched for being scum, while Asenion wants a policy lynch because he finds a NLP annoying. Considering this is Asenion who is a bigger liar than I am:
1. His policy lynch reaction makes sense from a personality perspective.
2. It also makes sense as a reaction from either scum or town Asenion. Meaning Null.
As for Generic: Do not claim more until any RVS votes have a chance to be taken off so we can see if you are at actual L-2.
At the risk of sounding like I am backtracking, I am willing to chalk the whole thing up to one big misunderstanding.
I don't think there is a need for Generic to be at L -2 this early in the day when we really don't have enough info to justify him being there. I still don't like some of the things he said though, and will keep an eye on him for it.
At the risk of sounding like I am backtracking, I am willing to chalk the whole thing up to one big misunderstanding.
I don't think there is a need for Generic to be at L -2 this early in the day when we really don't have enough info to justify him being there. I still don't like some of the things he said though, and will keep an eye on him for it.
I agree completely.
@Hawk: I don't believe you answered my questions from post #43. Please do that.
Also, I'll be semi-V/LA over the next few days. I've been getting my car back in working order and have a lot of things to get worked out with my new job. It's taking up a lot of my time but I might be able to find time to post every now and then.
Feel free, of all the wagons I've suffered on day 1s this has to be the fastest on the weakest reasoning.
Where I do find it odd is that a few are making the analysis fit the desired conclusion.
I believe it was guardman who voted for me because I didn't immediately back down on my vote or my opinion even after both pressure and a counter arguement from others.
So my crime here is sticking to my opinions.
Irebel jumped on my wagon straight after emocakes based on my vote being opportunistic. He then justified the vote by using posts I made after he voted... So his vote was made based on things I had yet to say.
And as for opportunism, he also points to my delay in making the vote as proof my vote was opportunistic... What changed in that time between my posts that made it opportunism? I pointed out I had just processed something that seemed scummy to me.
And as for a vote delay, zinger chose to respond to me, didn't vote as if he was going to see my response but then saw an opportunity to push me into L-2. And he clearly wanted that claim after he then tried to push me as scum when I revealed my character.
You seriously need to stop distorting the truth. I voted for you because of your terrible vote on Zinger and the complete lack of awareness with regards to the topic you were talking about. I then added to it when hawk asked because I felt more relevant content had been added.
I'm Thor, so if you want to drive that lynch through on page three then I would call this the worst opening to a game ive ever seen.
This reeks of scaremongering, like you're trying to cast doubt in peoples mind because the game is only a few days old. It's flippant and condescending. Your opening to post 77 only solidifies that flippant and condescending attitude. There are better ways of going about it.
You voted for me in a second post after not waiting on my response. check.
You voted for me for misrepresenting your posts and putting words in your mouth. Check.
Which of those have you not done?
And based on the fact you have voted for me to push me into L-2, misrepresented my actions and put words in my mouth as well as voting without waiting on a response, you are projecting your own actions on me as reasons I am scum, so you must be scum if those are the criteria.
In actuality I haven't made my mind up yet because your post just before voting for me I liked a lot and had I not seen the vote you put down after I was ready to apologise to you. Your subsequent actions have me holding my position as its been scummily motivated up to now.
You're willing to misrepresent the truth and put words into others when it fits your agenda, but the second someone calls you out, they're "misrepresenting" your actions and "putting words" into your mouth?
Love it.
~~~
/barn 88 and 89.
I'm content with my vote.
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Looks like someone didn't read the point to my zinger response. Or was that also deliberate misrepresentation?
He voted for me based on not waiting for his response, and putting words in his mouth and misrepresenting him. But he votes for me by putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting me.
So basically it's a bit like if you were to follow someone else vote immediately with a vote on me and use the excuse of me opportunistically following the vote of someone else onto the wagon... Oh, wait, that's what you did.
So my vote was opportunistic because emocakes managed to post whilst I was typing. Makes perfect sense. Not.
Also, snother one trying to tell me how I should be about 5 votes over a single decision, each interpreting ehh they are biting in a different way.
You immediately accused my misinterpretation as deliberate. You immediately edit your case cos you knew the reason you had initially voted for me on wasnt strong enough on its own.
You accuse me of misrepresenting posts, what was your vote post doing then? You knew j understood his point exactly and deliberately CHOSE to interpret it differently? And that's not misrepresenting me?
You accuse me of being condescending, let me just quote from post #42 for a second:
Let me just switch accounts real quick.
... Oh wait. Can't. Since I'm, you know, not Zinger.
Cocky scum thinking they have found something to bury me on.
unvote, vote irebel
Cherry picking posts without providing their context doesn't do much to improve your image. It does, however, reinforce the image that you've got an agenda and have no problem whatsoever misrepresenting actions and posts.
That post was in reply to this question:
Ok Irebel, explain to me what he means when he says he won't lie about anything but his alignment?
So.. how exactly am I acting like "Cocky scum thinking they have found something to bury me on" with that post, again? Because I see myself being flippant with you for asking me a question only Zinger could answer in an attempt to try and "strengthen" your case against him.
My "vote post" was me calling you on what I saw as a scum slip, and the way you've reacted and handled yourself under pressure has only reinforced my opinion that you are, in fact, scum.
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Your question towards asenion about policy lynching is terrible. Do you not understand what policy lynching is and when to do it? This fluff question combined with your overreaction of generic makes you look scummy as hell.
How is it terrible exactly?
IMO, I don't think there is ever a time to policy lynch. If a player is outrageously disruptive then I could see asking for a modkill, but policy lynching is just a way for scum to get a free kill. Policy lynch wagons can't be analyzed the way normal wagons can and basically waste a day and a flip.
I also, don't like the way you say it makes me "look scummy as hell", but doesn't make me scum.
Oh. I've seen someone like you before. I'm pretty sure dealing with you is more trouble than it's worth. My vote just became real.
I get the feeling you're implying a policy lynch? What is your stance if Zinger is town?
If Asenion knew zinger's faction he obviously wouldn't lynch him. Your question here is 100% worthless. You basically say, hey would you want to kill a confirmed town? What kind of answer were you expecting. Terrible fluff question.
Let me explain policy lynching to you since you don't get it.
Rule #5: When in a deadlock, policy lynching is your best friend.
Often misinterpreted as a "safe lynch", there is nothing wrong with lynching someone because they are unhelpful, lurking, or doing nothing good for the town. A safe lynch means to lynch a person with a neutral alignment, vanilla claim, or an otherwise harmless/minimum loss to the town. This of course is negated at MlyoL and LyoL.
I don't know what to think of Generic vs. iRebel. The former's indignation seems legit, but indignation can be faked. The latter's coolheadedness seems legit, but that can be faked, as well.
Assuming asenion was town and knew the faction of zinger, he wouldn't lynch him because it is no longer a safe lynch.
Scum asenion could be analyzed a bunch of different ways involving wifom. If scum do get a policy lynch off, it will not make them look good and could decrease their chance of survival in the next rounds. I don't think that scum would want to risk this day 1. Specifically I don't think this is a tactic scum asenion would use.
If you want more insight on asenion's policy lynch vote, you should ask him about it.
@Hawk, Emocakes asks Asension for his stance on the game if I am town. You seem to view this question as "Policy lynching is bad because Zinger could easily be town", whereas I view this question as "It's fine that you are willing to policy lynch Zinger, but don't hide behind that as an excuse to avoid any real scumhunting, I want to know what your stance on the game is if Zinger was confirmed town", more or less. See the difference? I don't think Emocakes is faulting policy lynching, I think he is faulting policy lynching IN PLACE OF any kind of scumhunting, which Asension has yet to do because he has been too concerned with explaining how he doesn't like my NLP and will lynch me for it.
And, come to think of it, I would really like Asension to answer Emocakes' question.
My view of the question is: This questions is irrelvant if asenion is town because he won't know zinger's faction. If he is scum, Wifom wifom wifom wifom.
Please explain how emo's question will shed any light on asenion.
I told you, my view of the question is that Emo is asking Asension to play the game instead of hiding behind his policy lynch as an excuse to avoid playing the game.
How Asension answers that question could tell us a thing or two about Asension's alignment.
Assuming asenion was town and knew the faction of zinger, he wouldn't lynch him because it is no longer a safe lynch.
Scum asenion could be analyzed a bunch of different ways involving wifom. If scum do get a policy lynch off, it will not make them look good and could decrease their chance of survival in the next rounds. I don't think that scum would want to risk this day 1. Specifically I don't think this is a tactic scum asenion would use.
My view of the question is: This questions is irrelvant if asenion is town because he won't know zinger's faction. If he is scum, Wifom wifom wifom wifom.
My concern is that it sounded like you knew Asenion's alignment: "If he knew Zinger's faction..." implying that Asenion doesn't know Zinger's faction, therefore Asenion is town.
Your responses don't match up, though. You were on the same wavelength I was when I confronted Emo about that question.
It's frustrating that Asenion never responded to Emo; I wanted to follow up on that, but I don't feel like I can without answering for Asenion.
Zinger's "could easily swing back" attack on Generic is terrible.
That said, I...don't understand Gifts' latest post.
What do you want me to answer? There is no way to tell the alignment of someone who is playing games with us. He's null for me and he will probably stay that way unless he slips. I guess I'm leaning scum on him slightly because of the attitude, but he is playin a very neutral game.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Weren't you the one who asked about it in the first place?
I understand your stance on Generic (although I'm not sure it's voteworthy), but this question to Asenion seems a bit of a misrep. Zinger was the one who "started" the discussion about it by putting an unfamiliar acronym in the thread.
I also don't like your "what is your stance" question; it feels...crafted. Why didn't you just say "how does a policy lynch fit in with a town mindset"?
@Emocakes
Your question towards asenion about policy lynching is terrible. Do you not understand what policy lynching is and when to do it? This fluff question combined with your overreaction of generic makes you look scummy as hell.
Vote Emocakes
inb4 Zinger, Emo and iRebel scumteam
@cantrip
I don't think we were ever on the same page. You were wondering why he asked it a specific way instead of another way, I attacked him for asking it that way period. The way you rephrased it is something completely different.
Your question:
How does a policy lynch fit in the town mindset.
Question rephrased:
How can a policy lynch benefit the town? Is it a viable strategy? When should a policy lynch occur?
His question:
I get the feeling you're implying a policy lynch? What is your stance if Zinger is town?
Questions rephrased:
Would you policy lynch zinger if you knew he was town?
question rephrased again:
Would you kill a towny?
and again: Asenion, you scum? no? k.
Anyways, this is how I interpreted it and why I thought it was a worthless fluff question.
His question:
I get the feeling you're implying a policy lynch? What is your stance if Zinger is town?
Questions rephrased:
Would you policy lynch zinger if you knew he was town?
question rephrased again:
Would you kill a towny?
and again: Asenion, you scum? no? k.
Anyways, this is how I interpreted it and why I thought it was a worthless fluff question.
Yes, this was where I was going when I realized that I didn't want to fight Asenion's battle for him, at least not until after he had a chance to respond. That's why I said we were on the same page; I just hadn't posted to that effect yet. Sorry for the confusion
Not liking Emo, not liking Ego. Surprised that Asenion wasn't more affronted by Emo's question.
I mean, it's obvious that you don't lynch confirmed town even if you don't like they way they play. My "policy lynch" is based on the fact that I thought Zinger was going to abuse his self-imposed posting restriction to make his alignment unreadable. If he tries that, I'll be back to trying to lynch him because it will be the only way to deal with him. In the meantime I've just been at work guys. Like chill for 8 hours please. Anyway, I'm off to FNM - I'll post tomorrow.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
I mean, it's obvious that you don't lynch confirmed town even if you don't like they way they play. My "policy lynch" is based on the fact that I thought Zinger was going to abuse his self-imposed posting restriction to make his alignment unreadable. If he tries that, I'll be back to trying to lynch him because it will be the only way to deal with him. In the meantime I've just been at work guys. Like chill for 8 hours please. Anyway, I'm off to FNM - I'll post tomorrow.
May lady luck rest on your lap at FNM.
As to the rest, we should just lynch Zinger, cuz he's scum.
@Asension, that really isn't the purpose of my NLP, and I don't understand honestly how I could use it in that way either.
@Trix, What exactly do you want me to respond to? The fact that I pointed out him being Thor does not exonerate him of being scum? Or because I had a change of heart regarding Generic and apparently that only happens if I am scum? You think I am scum why exactly?
The fact you are trying to generate a flavor justification for thor being scum, when the whole body snatchers scenario is already glaringly obvious that marvel cannon is useless for determining alignment shows you are not trying to understand the game, you are trying to stop the wagon from being derailed.
You didn't have a change of heart, you flat out said you are just waiting to vote for generic again. Trying to earn town points but reminding us you still want him lynched.
You call Generic scum for grasping at low hanging fruit. Pot, kettle etc.
Sorry that I have not been giving this game the attention that it deserves so far: I haven't had much time today in particular, and in what little time I have been on my computer, I have spent focusing on other games.
Tomorrow I plan on catching up on the events of today's play so that I can actually be useful.
(I'm letting you guys know right now that you shouldn't expect anything too fancy, especially because I am new to, and therefore suck at, this behavioral analysis stuff. What I can do is offer my opinions about certain people and who I agree with etc.)
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
I notice irebel you ignored the point i made about you anawering hawks query with subsequent posts. This is my biggest issue with you since you talk about misrepresentation.
Post #37
I've seen this song and dance once before from MTGS Mafia, so I'm feeling pretty good about my vote.
Hawk questions what you meant by this. Your response came in post #42
- Generic scrutinises Zinger for a tl;dr summary of his NLP link (if you read it, you'll notice nothing awkward about the way he phrased anything, imho)
- Then poses a question to me about Zinger that only Zinger can answer
- Then accuses me of riding to his defence because I pointed out something I didn't like and found fishy (which, I'll ask again: isn't that the point of this game?)
I asked you that question, which it seems I worded wrong as I reasked it later to you, essentially looking for the same thing answered, in post #38.
So you must be clairvoyant to have commented on something I was due to say if that's your answer to hawk.
Of maybe you just jumped on an opportunity in your first game since we shared a scum team to try and claim you know my meta and then are trying to build a case up afterwards because it was no case at all.
If I'm understanding you correctly (and I don't know if I am or not, cos I truly can't make heads or tails of this post), you're complaining about what I said in Post #42 to hawk? Because I included more than just your vote?
I am not trying to be sharp or anything here, I just really am not sure what this post is trying to convey. Is the above the general gist of it? or am I missing something?
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
unvote
I didn't realize generic was on 5 votes, i thought he wa still on 4...
My confirm vote was an attempt to put pressure on Generic to get a bit more convo flow, sadly it lead to a claim, which there is no counter claim to as far as I see. The claim is believable since we are all power charecters.
I have nothing further to add atm as I am tirde... goodnight.
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Simple, the purpose is to add an extra level of complexity to the game for me to make it more fun. Also, my NLP does not in any way hinder roleplaying, deception, or manipulation, it just requires me to approach those things from a different angle. I have been playing mafia for years and have had my NLP for almost as long. Never have I found it to be anti-fun, either for myself or others.
See point number 5. I openly declare it because, according to the terms of my NLP, I MUST openly declare that I am using it for that game for it to be considered in effect. If I didn't openly declare it then it would be nullified for the duration of that game.
See point number 2. I didn't say that I would lie about my alignment, I simply said that my alignment is not subject to the promise that I won't lie. Obviously, if I couldn't lie about my alignment, then playing Mafia would be impossible. It is not a scumslip, I was simply explaining how my NLP works, which is clearly defined here for anyone who cares to read it.
I only mentioned it because Point 5 of my NLP requires me to do so. All the further discussion about my NLP has been prompted by others, I am merely answering questions.
When I first started playing Mafia (years ago) I ran into some difficulty because I took it waaaay too personally whenever someone accused me of lying. Call my play scummy, fine, that didn't bother me, but it really got under my skin whenever someone called me a liar. At first I saw this as a necessary evil that comes with playing a game based on deception, but then I witnessed another player who had a No Lie Policy of his own that allowed him to play games without ever being accused of lying. I really liked/admired the way he played and so I adopted my own NLP as a result (which evolved to be different from his in the end but still the same overall concept). It is not uniformly used, though I would say I use it in over 90% of the games I play in. I decide if I want to use it after reading my role and the decision is usually based on how complicated it will be to keep up a NLP given the role I have. The caveat is that I MUST confirm the use of my NLP in the same post I make to confirm receipt of role or my NLP is void for that entire game (even if I failed to confirm it simply because I forgot). This is clearly explained as point 5 of my NLP rules.
Links to some previous games I played where I have used my NLP:
It means that any statements about my alignment are not subject to my NLP. This clause is important to state regardless of what alignment I am playing because without this clause using a NLP in Mafia games would be impossible.
Actually, Town lie all the time in Mafia games. I do not, which is why I started the NLP in the first place so that when I say I am not lying people take it seriously. I do have to say I'm going to use it, regardless of alignment, because otherwise, if there was no structure to how it is used, it would invalidate the point of having it.
Had you clicked the link and looked you would see I was not linking to a previous Mafia game (ie. mindset from two years ago), I was linking to a list of the terms of my NLP, clearly stated for everyone to see. When I provided a tl;dr, I was providing a quick summary of those terms which clearly state that I will not lie except when it concerns my alignment. So no, you are wrong, I wasn't stating my "intentions" on how I was going to play going forward, I was stating clearly how my NLP functions (which, I guess also tells you a thing or two about my intentions since I am using my NLP currently, but that's a moot point). I was not saying that I will lie about my alignment, I was saying that my alignment is the only thing I may lie about in the game.
Explanation is above.
I am happy to declare that I am able to lie about my alignment without abusing the terms of my NLP, yes, without which my NLP would be unusable in Mafia games. Stating however that I declared that I will lie about my alignment is a gross misrepresentation and is putting words in my mouth.
Thank you for reading.
Again, thank you for reading.
Because I have to. See point 5 of my NLP, which clearly states that I must declare its use in the confirmation post or it becomes void for the remainder of that game.
Correct. Thank you for reading.
Not at all. If I were to tell you that I was a Roleblocker, for example, you would know that I was not bluffing for the point of some gambit. If I were to counter-claim someone who had claimed Doc and say I was the Doc, you would again know I wasn't bluffing. There are plenty of uses for a NLP without factoring in alignment. I am neither a Roleblocker nor a Doctor in this game, these were hypothetical analogies. As for why I mention it in the first place, see point 5 of my NLP.
Thank you.
Cannot discuss current games, against the rules. There is a list of previous games above with links.
Not at all, I will answer questions as much as anyone who doesn't have a NLP to the best of my ability, and I certainly don't use it as an excuse not to play the game that I obviously enjoy playing to the point where I would invent the policy in the first place.
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"Hey look guys! We got us a perfect wagon for Day 1: A VI who admits he will lie about his alignment, it's iron-clad!"
Not.
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This still feels like policy play. I could understand a little more if Zinger was someone like Seppel...but why are you taking such affront?
Also, Unvote (there, finally remembered after like four posts).
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Vote Count:
Emocakes (2) - hansanator, 7hawk77
Generic (5) - Id_Ego, iRebel, Emocakes, Zinger2099, Guardman
Zinger2099 (1) - Generic
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
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OMGUS!!!
I think the NLP is null, it was a nice way to get out of RVS.
Generic reads town to me atm.
I don't think Generic should claim any more than he has, him being in claim range (with a RVS nonetheless) seems just lazy with the halfhearted case that's been tossed about.
I'm liking Zinger and Guardman the least on those who are voting 4 Generic.
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You are doing a terrible job at convincing me that my vote on you is not worth pursuing.
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The irony is, you then bashed me for voting you without waiting for your response when in fact you first did that to me.
Pot calling the kettle black?
I have a life too, for the record.
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But that's irrelevant to the issue at hand.
Do you, or do you not, STILL think I am scum?
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There is a big difference in that Generic is trying to get Zing lynched for being scum, while Asenion wants a policy lynch because he finds a NLP annoying. Considering this is Asenion who is a bigger liar than I am:
1. His policy lynch reaction makes sense from a personality perspective.
2. It also makes sense as a reaction from either scum or town Asenion. Meaning Null.
As for Generic: Do not claim more until any RVS votes have a chance to be taken off so we can see if you are at actual L-2.
Unvote.
At the risk of sounding like I am backtracking, I am willing to chalk the whole thing up to one big misunderstanding.
I don't think there is a need for Generic to be at L -2 this early in the day when we really don't have enough info to justify him being there. I still don't like some of the things he said though, and will keep an eye on him for it.
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Please elaborate using your own words why you think generic is scum.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Seconded. Emphatically.
I agree completely.
@Hawk: I don't believe you answered my questions from post #43. Please do that.
Also, I'll be semi-V/LA over the next few days. I've been getting my car back in working order and have a lot of things to get worked out with my new job. It's taking up a lot of my time but I might be able to find time to post every now and then.
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Mafia Statistics
I collect pacifism: 228
You seriously need to stop distorting the truth. I voted for you because of your terrible vote on Zinger and the complete lack of awareness with regards to the topic you were talking about. I then added to it when hawk asked because I felt more relevant content had been added.
This reeks of scaremongering, like you're trying to cast doubt in peoples mind because the game is only a few days old. It's flippant and condescending. Your opening to post 77 only solidifies that flippant and condescending attitude. There are better ways of going about it.
You're willing to misrepresent the truth and put words into others when it fits your agenda, but the second someone calls you out, they're "misrepresenting" your actions and "putting words" into your mouth?
Love it.
~~~
/barn 88 and 89.
I'm content with my vote.
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Mafia Stats
So my vote was opportunistic because emocakes managed to post whilst I was typing. Makes perfect sense. Not.
Cherry picking posts without providing their context doesn't do much to improve your image. It does, however, reinforce the image that you've got an agenda and have no problem whatsoever misrepresenting actions and posts.
That post was in reply to this question:
So.. how exactly am I acting like "Cocky scum thinking they have found something to bury me on" with that post, again? Because I see myself being flippant with you for asking me a question only Zinger could answer in an attempt to try and "strengthen" your case against him.
My "vote post" was me calling you on what I saw as a scum slip, and the way you've reacted and handled yourself under pressure has only reinforced my opinion that you are, in fact, scum.
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If Asenion knew zinger's faction he obviously wouldn't lynch him. Your question here is 100% worthless. You basically say, hey would you want to kill a confirmed town? What kind of answer were you expecting. Terrible fluff question.
Let me explain policy lynching to you since you don't get it.
Rule #5: When in a deadlock, policy lynching is your best friend.
Often misinterpreted as a "safe lynch", there is nothing wrong with lynching someone because they are unhelpful, lurking, or doing nothing good for the town. A safe lynch means to lynch a person with a neutral alignment, vanilla claim, or an otherwise harmless/minimum loss to the town. This of course is negated at MlyoL and LyoL.
Contradiction in the same post?
Outdated Mafia Stats
@Hawk: Explain this sentence, please.
Scum asenion could be analyzed a bunch of different ways involving wifom. If scum do get a policy lynch off, it will not make them look good and could decrease their chance of survival in the next rounds. I don't think that scum would want to risk this day 1. Specifically I don't think this is a tactic scum asenion would use.
If you want more insight on asenion's policy lynch vote, you should ask him about it.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Seconded, emphatically.
--------------------
@Generic, you're flailing. You should stop. The pressure is no longer on you as hard but could easily swing back your direction.
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ORLY
Outdated Mafia Stats
And, come to think of it, I would really like Asension to answer Emocakes' question.
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Please explain how emo's question will shed any light on asenion.
Outdated Mafia Stats
How Asension answers that question could tell us a thing or two about Asension's alignment.
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Unvote, Vote Zinger
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My concern is that it sounded like you knew Asenion's alignment: "If he knew Zinger's faction..." implying that Asenion doesn't know Zinger's faction, therefore Asenion is town.
Your responses don't match up, though. You were on the same wavelength I was when I confronted Emo about that question.
It's frustrating that Asenion never responded to Emo; I wanted to follow up on that, but I don't feel like I can without answering for Asenion.
Zinger's "could easily swing back" attack on Generic is terrible.
That said, I...don't understand Gifts' latest post.
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His most recent attack (quote number 3) is what I see as scum attacking low hanging fruit, which he attacks Generic for in the fourth quote I posted.
The first two should be self-explanitory and I want to see Zinger respond to zem.
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@cantrip
I don't think we were ever on the same page. You were wondering why he asked it a specific way instead of another way, I attacked him for asking it that way period. The way you rephrased it is something completely different.
Your question:
How does a policy lynch fit in the town mindset.
Question rephrased:
How can a policy lynch benefit the town? Is it a viable strategy? When should a policy lynch occur?
His question:
I get the feeling you're implying a policy lynch? What is your stance if Zinger is town?
Questions rephrased:
Would you policy lynch zinger if you knew he was town?
question rephrased again:
Would you kill a towny?
and again: Asenion, you scum? no? k.
Anyways, this is how I interpreted it and why I thought it was a worthless fluff question.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Yes, this was where I was going when I realized that I didn't want to fight Asenion's battle for him, at least not until after he had a chance to respond. That's why I said we were on the same page; I just hadn't posted to that effect yet. Sorry for the confusion
Not liking Emo, not liking Ego. Surprised that Asenion wasn't more affronted by Emo's question.
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May lady luck rest on your lap at FNM.
As to the rest, we should just lynch Zinger, cuz he's scum.
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@Asension, that really isn't the purpose of my NLP, and I don't understand honestly how I could use it in that way either.
@Trix, What exactly do you want me to respond to? The fact that I pointed out him being Thor does not exonerate him of being scum? Or because I had a change of heart regarding Generic and apparently that only happens if I am scum? You think I am scum why exactly?
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You didn't have a change of heart, you flat out said you are just waiting to vote for generic again. Trying to earn town points but reminding us you still want him lynched.
You call Generic scum for grasping at low hanging fruit. Pot, kettle etc.
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Tomorrow I plan on catching up on the events of today's play so that I can actually be useful.
(I'm letting you guys know right now that you shouldn't expect anything too fancy, especially because I am new to, and therefore suck at, this behavioral analysis stuff. What I can do is offer my opinions about certain people and who I agree with etc.)
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
All I said was that being Thor does not clear him of any suspicion at all because of the body-snatchers plot.
I did not say I was waiting to vote Generic again, I said I was keeping an eye on him because his behaviour has me suspicious.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
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If I'm understanding you correctly (and I don't know if I am or not, cos I truly can't make heads or tails of this post), you're complaining about what I said in Post #42 to hawk? Because I included more than just your vote?
I am not trying to be sharp or anything here, I just really am not sure what this post is trying to convey. Is the above the general gist of it? or am I missing something?
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Mafia Stats
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I didn't realize generic was on 5 votes, i thought he wa still on 4...
My confirm vote was an attempt to put pressure on Generic to get a bit more convo flow, sadly it lead to a claim, which there is no counter claim to as far as I see. The claim is believable since we are all power charecters.
I have nothing further to add atm as I am tirde... goodnight.
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Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
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CCC&G BRAGGING RIGHTS
Mafia Statistics
I collect pacifism: 228
Nothing about that explanation is town.
Vote Count:
Id_Ego (2) - Emocakes, Cantripmancer
iRebel (1) - Generic
Emocakes (2) - hansanator, 7hawk77
Generic (2) - iRebel, Guardman
Zinger2099 (1) - GiftsTrix
Not voting (4) - Asenion, Id_Ego, Zinger2099, parinoid
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
If there's anything wrong, let me know!
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
@Mod: Could you list those who aren't voting in the vote counts?
TIA!