But before im labelled by someone who has only played in a game with me here and now, i refer to that first part:
'habitually say or do the wrong things, then not understand the consequences of saying them' Habitually. Unaware of the consequences. Neither of these seem to apply because im not habitually doing anything, nor am i unaware of the consequences of claiming without being under any pressure.
Explain how the town benefits from you claiming vanilla town under virtually no pressure, then.
I can't reconcile 'being aware of the consequences' with you doing so.
The primary objective of VT is to be active, be clearly pro-town, and draw the NK in the place of a power role.
You've basically ensured that it can't happen, and I just can't fathom a town motivation or mindset for doing it.
Unless you were just not thinking, are inexperienced, or lacked a basic grasp on mafia theory. (Or were a VI, to use the disliked phrase).
But that's not the case - so please walk me through very slowly and carefully why you felt the need to claim VT when you did, despite knowing that it was a suboptimal play to do so.
Voxx: I seem to recall comments from you about being dissatisfied with your D1 play. That's what I'm referencing from "applicable notes", and that's the last I'm saying on the subject.
Okay, there was a miscommunication in my brain about what 'notes' meant, in this case.
To people that are feeling it whoosh over their head - in the latter stages of Mafia Redux, I had a conversation with Taredas about playstyles, and talked about how passive I tend to be on D1. I'm trying to change that, as while I do think I'm a solid player later in the game, my D1's haven't been accomplishing much. Admittedly most of my posting frequency this game has stemmed from the fact that I've had no work and been sick the last few days - it won't continue at this rate.
@ Taredas: To AE's credit, he backed off a little bit on Kosa once it was pointed out that EtR was actually the first player to comment on Shark's RVS-breaking habits. I don't much care for his support of TCM's lengthy post though, a post which came off as scummy. This game is certainly not on track to break any records for length or post count, so why can he not be bothered to read the thread? Based on some other specific things I have seen that cannot be commented on right now per the rules, this comes off as a red flag.
@ Generic: You're taking that way too personally. Why do you keep essentially daring us to lynch you? That's the second time you have done that.
...yes, everything said and done in a mafia game is scummy in a vaccum - but what matters is context.
The context of the situation is that you were under almost no pressure. One person was poking you with a stick, and you claim VT. You were in no danger of being lynched.
I'm just asking you to explain your thought process about /why/ you claimed VT, when you also claim that you are aware of the consequences.
If you are town, you are either aware of the consequences and don't care (i.e. you are playing in an anti-town manner intentionally), or you aren't actually aware of the consequences of claiming VT without prompting, and are getting upset at people assuming you weren't aware of the consequences.
The third option is that you are scum, and hoped to get people to dismiss you as town.
I don't have a strong read on you at the moment, hence trying to get you to walk me through the thought process, so I can better identify the mindset behind it.
And now you're just been dismissive of the issue, and misrepresenting what I said.
Quote from Generic »
You have suggested no threat of a night kill on me now im known to not be a PR, im better value to the mafia alive because people like you want to waste your time calling me scum yet not voting for me rather than find them...
Yes, you are better value to the mafia alive, because you are not a power role. Which is the entire reason we're even having this conversation - there was no reason to claim when you did.
But I'm not calling you scum for doing so - I'm trying to figure out your alignment, and it's like you are intentionally trying to keep me from doing so.
Can you please answer the following questions, as concisely as you can:
1) When only one person expressed a scum read on you, why did you claim Vanilla Town?
2) Did you think that you were going to be lynched at the time that you claimed, due to one person expressing suspicion?
I will play this game for as long as im still active, i have no intentions of being the number 1 choice for night kill because i am never seen as supertownie on day 1 anyway. So why would a mafia team witnessing the rest of you considering me the most untownie townie in the game as the best lynch option?
I feel the need to discuss this part of your post for a minute.
You are basically acknowledging that scum does not want to see an "easy out" die early.
That very logic can be applied to posts 98 and 99, where you immediately came to take the heat off me, an inexperienced player, as soon as EtR and Misting put my name in the vote column.
I'm also interested in hearing your response to my other question... why have you dared us to lynch you twice? Shouldn't their own lynch be the absolute last thing any townie wants?
I like you voxx, i have been an obvious a**hole and yet every single reply has been very on topic, unjudging and inquisitive.
1) When only one person expressed a scum read on you, why did you claim Vanilla Town?
Im afraid you wont like the answer, but impulse. Im ruled by my mood at the time, and at the time i wasnt impressed with the arogant dismissal of my posts in such a cheap way. I have been basically told leading into this game my posts are either unreadable or not worth reading when i go into the longer 'wall of text' rebuttals, so i had the impulse to say im VT. i was aware of the weakening of my position, but i didnt see it getting much lower anyway, so meh.
2) Did you think that you were going to be lynched at the time that you claimed, due to one person expressing suspicion?
Nope, but i wasnt in the mindset for the fight, and weakness like that allows people to spin it however suits them and a wagon might have occurred, who knows. Im surprised there isnt a wagon at all right now, but im sure my chat with you will have a few people keen to make an example of me, even if the OMGUS looking vote doesnt give them enough ammo.
Again this self-centeredness. We don't care about you weakening your position. It's about how it affects town.
Let's say we have a 12-man town. 4 power roles, 8 vanilla.
For every VT that claims, it informs the scum team of the optimal choices to make regarding night actions.
I know you are claiming that the game is played subjectively, and you're largely right when it comes to the daytime aspect of things - but objectively, revealing yourself as VT makes it harder for power roles to survive, as it effectively removes yourself from the pool of players that can be a power role.
It's not game-crippling, or anything, but there is no benefit to town, and a minor to mild detriment to town, when a VT claims for mimial reasoning.
But despite the dislike for the Taredas vote (I think he's pretty solidly town), and dislike of the self-focused nature of your analysis of the situation, I think you're probably town, at this point.
I agree with Rhand that it reads as self-focused, but I also think that it reads somewhat genuine in that regard - I don't think you truly considered how it'd impact the town as a whole, rather than your own position, which is the core reason behind my exasperation earlier.
Wasn't really reading it as directed to Rhand in particular - but at both of us, as we'd been having the discussion regarding the matter. Apologies 'n such if it was directly at him.
Way too much emphasis on flavor. Real vote is real.
Why Hawk and not one of the other flavor-users?
His post seemed like he spent much more time on in than the other's. I get
RVS fun, but when it feels like he is trying too hard, which to me, reads scummy as RVS or not, we should be paying close attention to motives. I almost went after KK just for the sake of spamming the thread up. His post count generically goes up, and he can lurk more in plain sight without scrutiny.
1. I'm not actually a survivor.
2. I wanted to come into this game making a survivor gambit just because I thought I could generate reactions from it, but opted not to because the setup would likely not have a survivor (before when put up to a vote it was the most normal setup).
3. EtRs post lured me to "break" rvs, so i had to entertain. Too early to find a good reason to break it. So I went with the survivor deal I had in mind.
4. Apparently I never broke rvs, though I led people to break it apparently.
5. unvote since rvs is over.
6. Ill read over the game in a little bit to see what's going on now.
Ok Iso. All you did was made yourself a more likely target for a potential vig shot. @#4 I broke RVS, and will continue to do so. To quote a good friend of mines favorite EDH philosophy, and an amazing band:
I do find it amusing when people are so sure I'm scum. Always love to see them blame it on me when they are shown to have got it completely wrong.
Taredes, you are certain my posts came from scum, I invite the bandwagon on me. Go ahead and vote me. It's ok, I'm not a pr. just VT, so go ahead.
I don't think dking is scum btw, just very new. I always carry doubts on anyone until they flip, but I don't see faking of newness.
Oh, and not a single completed mtgs game. I'm in five or six here, three or four on mafiascum and just come out of one on coloholics, do if I seem confused on information it might be due to other games confusing matters for me.
So, Generic will be the default lynch for today? Sounds fine.
For everyone who is asking about Generic's unforced claim, what would scum get from that gambit? The only thing I can see is that people will "accept" him as VT and give him a pass. But really, it's not like we are going to stop analyzing him. Feels pretty null to me one way or another.
I don't know enough about Kosa's meta to determine if he's acting "normal" or not. He feels townie in this game though.
Not a fan of TCM poking in just to say, "Hey guys, too much content, not gonna bother to read all this spam" and then disappearing again.
It was null, but incredibly poor play. We could spend pages discussing whether it was a town/scum motivation. Unless he continues to play poorly/scummy, let's move on.
Also, I did read the "spam". Maybe the rest of you should tone it down as hitting 300 pages is quite depressing. Considering I can almost ignore an entire (50 page) page is pretty garbage.
From this point on, I will just be quoting sections. This muilti quote thing confuses and infuriates me, and I wish it would go back to the way it was...>
Quote from Hawk »
It's obviously about TCM. Feels like scum trying to deflect.
Um, explain? The FOS probably made it more obvious to me, but he quoted Rhand, not me.
Quote from Vox »
Hm.
Don't like the Taredas vote.
But don't think it necessarily makes Hawk scum.
Hey, Hawk -
What do you think about Kosa, Hans and EtR?
Huge fence sitting, and a random question about three players he didn't mention much in the post I previously quoted. This post makes me dislike Vox right now.
@Vox: I remember in a previous post, you stated I was town, but didn't give a reason. Why do you think I am town? Also, what about his vote did you not like?
Bad vote is bad. I want to go through exactly why you believe me to be going after the "low hanging fruit", and why it cannot be legitimately hunting?
Quote from HAWK »
dkingsland has came off mildly scummy early in the game but I am willing to give him a noob card pass especially with his recent posts. I know I personally have a difficult time discerning noob scum from noob town considering the scummy/paranoid nature of newer players. I like his vote on TCM though.
His vote on me was essentially "re-read, vote TCM" without giving any reason. In addition, if you want to investigate Taredas, why is pushing me good?
Quote from dklanding »
Yuck... do not like the exchange in #123 - 144 - 168.
Why?
Quote from hansanator »
What makes you say that?
The comment underneath Kosa's name implies that he would be happy if he was mafia, so I asked him what kind of mood he was in. His response showed that he was quite frustrated, and frustration is not typically associated with happiness. Therefore, I was able to label him town because, if he was mafia, he would have picked a happier emotion to describe his mood.
Case closed.
-_-
Quote from hawk »
I almost want to vote you just because of this....
You have an RVS vote and then a naked vote. These are your only posts in the game.
Please list two town reads and why?
Do you have any updates on your read on misting/EtR?
What is your opinion on the Kosa/Shark situation
His last three posts have been nothing but spitting out questions at everyone who posts towards him. This looks like he is trying pretty hard to appear to be scumhunting, but doing it poorly. I like my vote right now.
On page 5 now (50pp). This **** really needs to slow down. There are certain players that might only be able to post once/twice a day.
Next post will be responding to the last two pages of content...
I don't like Hawk's Taredas vote, because I think Taredas is town.
But I don't think it's a scumtell to be wrong (especially when the person in question isn't confirmed as being town).
I had a light town read on you pretty early because something read as fairly genuine, will have to go back through and find it, didn't make a note of post number.
Do you have an example of a town game or two of yours? I think I've only played with you when you were mafia (twice) and a SK.
#5 - Post about Shark breaking RVS
#10 - Direct response to Shark, acknowledging his apparent breaking of RVS
#94 - Jumped on me for coming off self-conscious
#98 & 102 - Justifies #94
#131 - Tells Voxx that he is not scum
That's it. I had a town read on him so far, but it looks plausible that he baited Shark into shenanigans.
#1: Your post makes no sense. SF has been around long enough to not be "baited into shennanigans".
#2: I have fewer posts than him, as does other players. The game started yesterday, calm your tits.
Quote from Generic »
yways, vote taredas for being allowed by the site moderators to call me sub human with the get out of it coming under mafia slang. Not a joke vote, a serious and if you like OMGUS one. But then being stunted intellectually i dont understand the reperrcussions of OMGUS... durrrr.
#1: If you are going to be pissy about it, you could report it the post in question. Because guess what?: We can't see his comment if no one reports.
#2: He is attacking your playstyle, not you. And for good reason. In the good ol days, you would have been lynched already for such poor play. Getting lynched early teaches you not to make the same mistake again. It seems this generation is much more lenient towards that, but I digress...
#3: In this exact same paragraph, "Not a joke, a serious OMGUS vote" What praytell, are you hoping to accomplish with that?
Whats to walk you through? Im still waiting on this mass voting im supposed to be receiving for my actions. Cos so far the only thing that has happened is the one vote on me was rescinded by the same guy who called me the mafia equivalent of a moron.
So lets see. No votes. You have suggested no threat of a night kill on me now im known to not be a PR, im better value to the mafia alive because people like you want to waste your time calling me scum yet not voting for me rather than find them...
stop me when i confuse actual happenign with what i expected to happen... cos i expected to be at L-2 where i would then tell you my wrestler name. but that actually doesnt matter because the only thing that did matter is already known.
Boy am i glad i checked in at this time... Im so full of joy, im fit to burst, do you want to move onto my Taredas vote or shall we still continue to chat about a claim i made about three or four pages ago now is it?
You know what? Unvote Hawk, Vote Generic. I'll deal with Hawk tomorrow, but I can't really justify being wrong with hawk to ignore a player who I can't see being any help to the town. He is already in shutdown mode, his claim means we at worse, lost a vanilla town, and I hate to say it, but his scumhunting skills aren't really developed yet.
He is questioning your claim, but it makes no sense at all. Even your tone when you were claiming seemed to imply: "I claiming just because, you aren't getting anything out of it."
Safe lynch is safe. I'll happily vote hawk if you really want to push him, but I think we have a potential scum sitting here, and let's be honest: Short of a cop targeting him, he is going to be lynched eventually, while never targeted by the mafia (if town).
Quote from Vox »
Do you have an example of a town game or two of yours? I think I've only played with you when you were mafia (twice) and a SK.
Hahahaha.
I am going to have to look back. I think out of all the players, I have one of (if not, THE) highest ratio of non-town to town games. Will post in the next post.
How has it affected town then? Maybe im missing the massive loss to the town i caused.
Voxx pretty much explained it. We want our VT's to get nightkilled so that our PR's can continue doing their jobs. Town role info, even not having a role, should stay hidden as long as possible.
TCM: The vote from DK wasn't naked. I had the same reaction when I first read his post, but there's a bit more reasoning at the start of his post: (bolded for emphasis)
I'm actually leaning town on EtR for the same reason I am AE... ready and willing to start a wagon on me. Plus, unlike TCM in #38, he didn't look to be grabbing low-hanging fruit. He made a read and gave his reasoning.
Kosa's questioning of Shark does not scream to me, but #31 does.
Taredas seems +town to me.
Generic's VT claim is strange... obviously doesn't help us, but doesn't seem like something a scum would gain from. Neutral role tell, maybe?
What about post 89?
At worst its riding my coat tails by tagging on an additional to my opinion. Whats so sinister about that? Had he been a veteran and /barned me with the comment about AE commiting to a vote would you have seen it as a concern?
The way I'm reading #89 shows that he finds Kosa at least somewhat scummy but his vote was on Shark as an RVS vote. Why not move it? Then in #92 he explains that he didn't like Shark's "sit back" post enough to Unvote previously but he goes on to Unvote anyway.
Why do you think he's riding your coat tails?
Basing it on my I reforestation of a new player liking someone else's assessment of something, and so summarises it a bit themselves with a tag on bit to try and make it their own. Not a /barn, but instead riding my wave.
Hard to explain outside of metaphor, sorry.
No, I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page. So how is what Misting did (Voting Dking right after me) different than what happened here?
I was wrong about you in FHF, I'll grant you that.
But I read you correctly in Gotham Underground, I think.
And Chimes mafia was more of a 'If there's a Chime remaining after we lynch AE and AG it's probably EtR' type of thing. Not really a strong scum read.
(You should update your mafia stats, I tried to see which games we'd played in together, because my memory is terrible)
But regardless, being wrong in the past doesn't mean I'm wrong this time!
What do you think about Taredas' Generic case, and Generic himself?
I do need to update my stats, thanks for the reminder.
As far as Taredas's case, at first blush I'm not a fan of it because it's a lot of "town wouldn't say this" and the like. However, Generic's out of nowhere claim is bad for a few reasons, in my opinion. First, and most obvious, town shouldn't do that; but it happens. Second, I defended Kosa (along with Rhand) in Innistrad because I felt as though KK had done it from a town perspective. I'm not getting that same vibe here. Lastly, he's been needling people all game and the questions he's asked make me feel like he is looking to get someone to slip on something. I have him as leaning scum at this point.
I expected to have more time, but I'm going to have to wrap this up for the moment.
Unvote DKing; Vote Generic. DKing's response to my vote (seeing why I was voting him and acknowledging it, not freaking out, etc) were really good. However, Generic's claim was bad and doesn't give me the same feeling that KK did.
I'm very V/LA through 7/1, but it's a business trip so it's more LA than V. I should still be able to post at least once or so a day, yesterday was just my off day here.
Reconcile you saying this, with pushing for what even you acknowledge to be the 'safe lynch'.
Look at his last few posts...By all means, continue to scumhunt, but I think we got one right here, and at worse case scenario, minimal loss is we are wrong.
I also said that, getting sick of players asking for more posts (like yesterday, when AE said he wanted to see me post more, despite my last post being less than 12 hours ago).
Yeah, I know the context you said it in - but the point still remains. You acknowledge that the game just started, and you want to take the 'safe' lynch.
What do you learn about other people's alignments if you lynch Generic?
Yeah, I know the context you said it in - but the point still remains. You acknowledge that the game just started, and you want to take the 'safe' lynch.
What do you learn about other people's alignments if you lynch Generic?
How people jumped on his wagon, and for what purpose.
Who is more likely to be town if he flips town?
Who is more likely to be scum?
I don't get the point of these questions. There are only 2/3 votes on him right now. I don't know who would be town or scum, because there hasn't been much comment on him as of today. There is an aweful lot of fence sitting though.
The problem with your question is that I can literally ask that about any other person we try to lynch today. Whoever is legitimately pushing a certain wagon is town, regardless of flip, and whoever looks like they were jumping for an opportunity is scum.
Does lynching Generic help us Figure Things Out?
It will remove a layer of doubt that I am sure everyone who has seen Generic's post possesses. A night filled with PR roles, with the mafia flying blind will also make for a strong day 2.
I know it's difficult sometimes, but try to isolate what people say in the game, from personal attacks on you. Hyperbole happens, exagerration happens, and emotions can run high when you are both being attacked, and doing the attacking.
To some people, the others in the game are merely names on the screen - almost like a character, as it were - try not to take things personally. Consider VI to be a nebulous description of an archetype of player, for example - someone who may not actually be an 'idiot' as the phrase would say, but someone that you can see doing things in a certain way.
The TL;DR here is - don't take things personally, even if I acknowledge that it can be difficult not to, sometimes.
I know it's difficult sometimes, but try to isolate what people say in the game, from personal attacks on you. Hyperbole happens, exagerration happens, and emotions can run high when you are both being attacked, and doing the attacking.
To some people, the others in the game are merely names on the screen - almost like a character, as it were - try not to take things personally. Consider VI to be a nebulous description of an archetype of player, for example - someone who may not actually be an 'idiot' as the phrase would say, but someone that you can see doing things in a certain way.
The TL;DR here is - don't take things personally, even if I acknowledge that it can be difficult not to, sometimes.
This is true. TCM among others has that edge to him that can really hurt you. But it's still a game and it's the way he plays it.
@Jonpike: are you keeping notes? I am interested in how your read on Kosa f.e. evolves during your reading.
There's a certain self-awareness evident in not wanting to comment on things that we may have moved past. Scum that doesn't want to take the chance at slipping, when there's no real gain to be had?
@Generic - what specifically do you want me to address? How my first post of the game was a jokey RVS post or the second one? I have no idea what KK is doing and already said I was suspicious of him.
There's a certain self-awareness evident in not wanting to comment on things that we may have moved past. Scum that doesn't want to take the chance at slipping, when there's no real gain to be had?
but you all assume i am telling the truth. I have to wonder why i am having to say this openly to stop this endless 'concern' that i have weakened the town by revealing im VT.
Which is it, are the ones still badgering me about this so vehemently without ever declaring me scum or voting for me really so dense as to not consider other alternatives than i am telling the absolute truth and have delieberately aimed to sabotage the town even though nothing detrimental has come of my claim AT ALL...
Why has no one latched on to this yet?
Generic claims VT under minimal pressure, then drops not-so-subtle hints that he is actually a PR when pushed some more. He is definitely hitting the panic button. The question becomes why... I for one do not believe he is a VT playing poorly. So is it because he really is a town PR and is cracking under pressure because he fears a mislynch is in his immediate future, or is it because he is scum and knows the heat is about to get turned up?
His last three posts have been nothing but spitting out questions at everyone who posts towards him. This looks like he is trying pretty hard to appear to be scumhunting, but doing it poorly. I like my vote right now.
This sums up my feelings about Hawk quite nicely. Everything is forced. I find the the "ask pointless questions" tell to be a rather good one. I've been guilty of it multiple times in the past as scum. You want to contribute to the game, but not really offer any insight? Ask a bunch of questions to make it look like you're scum-hunting and contributing. But you're really not doing either.
It's unfortunate that TCM has taken to trying to policy lynch Generic, instead. I do agree with Voxx's analysis of him, though - the impression that he truly believes this is the 'Right Thing To Do', but I don't agree.
EtR's vote is awful. He's second on the list now, Misting at third.
I also noticed TCM asking why my vote is for him... I extrapolated on this earlier, but will post again for focus. His initial vote on Hawk seemed arbitrary but forceful. More importantly, I didn't like his lengthy post berating the spammy-ness of the game and acting as though it was beneath him to read all of it. Maybe that's part of his "style" that Rhand alluded to in #277, but it seems really similar to some scum play from an experienced player that I've read in another recent game.
I like you voxx, i have been an obvious a**hole and yet every single reply has been very on topic, unjudging and inquisitive.
1) When only one person expressed a scum read on you, why did you claim Vanilla Town?
Im afraid you wont like the answer, but impulse. Im ruled by my mood at the time, and at the time i wasnt impressed with the arogant dismissal of my posts in such a cheap way. I have been basically told leading into this game my posts are either unreadable or not worth reading when i go into the longer 'wall of text' rebuttals, so i had the impulse to say im VT. i was aware of the weakening of my position, but i didnt see it getting much lower anyway, so meh.
2) Did you think that you were going to be lynched at the time that you claimed, due to one person expressing suspicion?
Nope, but i wasnt in the mindset for the fight, and weakness like that allows people to spin it however suits them and a wagon might have occurred, who knows. Im surprised there isnt a wagon at all right now, but im sure my chat with you will have a few people keen to make an example of me, even if the OMGUS looking vote doesnt give them enough ammo.
#5 - Post about Shark breaking RVS
#10 - Direct response to Shark, acknowledging his apparent breaking of RVS
#94 - Jumped on me for coming off self-conscious
#98 & 102 - Justifies #94
#131 - Tells Voxx that he is not scum
That's it. I had a town read on him so far, but it looks plausible that he baited Shark into shenanigans.
#1: Your post makes no sense. SF has been around long enough to not be "baited into shennanigans".
#2: I have fewer posts than him, as does other players. The game started yesterday, calm your tits.
Quote from Generic »
yways, vote taredas for being allowed by the site moderators to call me sub human with the get out of it coming under mafia slang. Not a joke vote, a serious and if you like OMGUS one. But then being stunted intellectually i dont understand the reperrcussions of OMGUS... durrrr.
#1: If you are going to be pissy about it, you could report it the post in question. Because guess what?: We can't see his comment if no one reports.
#2: He is attacking your playstyle, not you. And for good reason. In the good ol days, you would have been lynched already for such poor play. Getting lynched early teaches you not to make the same mistake again. It seems this generation is much more lenient towards that, but I digress...
#3: In this exact same paragraph, "Not a joke, a serious OMGUS vote" What praytell, are you hoping to accomplish with that?
Whats to walk you through? Im still waiting on this mass voting im supposed to be receiving for my actions. Cos so far the only thing that has happened is the one vote on me was rescinded by the same guy who called me the mafia equivalent of a moron.
So lets see. No votes. You have suggested no threat of a night kill on me now im known to not be a PR, im better value to the mafia alive because people like you want to waste your time calling me scum yet not voting for me rather than find them...
stop me when i confuse actual happenign with what i expected to happen... cos i expected to be at L-2 where i would then tell you my wrestler name. but that actually doesnt matter because the only thing that did matter is already known.
Boy am i glad i checked in at this time... Im so full of joy, im fit to burst, do you want to move onto my Taredas vote or shall we still continue to chat about a claim i made about three or four pages ago now is it?
You know what? Unvote Hawk, Vote Generic. I'll deal with Hawk tomorrow, but I can't really justify being wrong with hawk to ignore a player who I can't see being any help to the town. He is already in shutdown mode, his claim means we at worse, lost a vanilla town, and I hate to say it, but his scumhunting skills aren't really developed yet.
He is questioning your claim, but it makes no sense at all. Even your tone when you were claiming seemed to imply: "I claiming just because, you aren't getting anything out of it."
Safe lynch is safe. I'll happily vote hawk if you really want to push him, but I think we have a potential scum sitting here, and let's be honest: Short of a cop targeting him, he is going to be lynched eventually, while never targeted by the mafia (if town).
Quote from Vox »
Do you have an example of a town game or two of yours? I think I've only played with you when you were mafia (twice) and a SK.
Hahahaha.
I am going to have to look back. I think out of all the players, I have one of (if not, THE) highest ratio of non-town to town games. Will post in the next post.
Now this post, though, I don't like. This is sniping low-hanging-fruit of the highest degree. Generic tilted. It happens. That doesn't mean that he's magically useless for the rest of the game now. I'll point out myself in Checks and Balances -- I tilted HARD d1, but I pulled out of it and was at least passable for the rest of the game. On top of that, do we really want to move that quickly on D1? We've got almost two weeks until deadline -- while I'm FIRMLY a fan of not going to deadline on d1, after the last several games which have done so -- I do feel that we could safely plan to use at least a week of that time to tease out some more conversation and get some firmer reads on people before going to night phase.
but you all assume i am telling the truth. I have to wonder why i am having to say this openly to stop this endless 'concern' that i have weakened the town by revealing im VT.
Which is it, are the ones still badgering me about this so vehemently without ever declaring me scum or voting for me really so dense as to not consider other alternatives than i am telling the absolute truth and have delieberately aimed to sabotage the town even though nothing detrimental has come of my claim AT ALL...
Why has no one latched on to this yet?
Generic claims VT under minimal pressure, then drops not-so-subtle hints that he is actually a PR when pushed some more. He is definitely hitting the panic button. The question becomes why... I for one do not believe he is a VT playing poorly. So is it because he really is a town PR and is cracking under pressure because he fears a mislynch is in his immediate future, or is it because he is scum and knows the heat is about to get turned up?
Generic: how much actual experience do you have? I think that you replied earlier ITT that you're in a bunch of games right now, but don't have many/any completeds, or something to the nature?
I get the feeling that Generic is in a similar position to myself from Survival Horror. As such, I am firmly against lynching him at this juncture, and indeed I think that adding more pressure will only serve to make things worse for the town.
I don't like Kingsland's post here in the slightest. Speculating about whether Generic is actually a PR or not will only serve to out a PR if he is one. Let the scumteam worry about whether he's actually a VT or not. We don't need nor want to put that information into the thread.
[Sidenote: Kingsland, what do you want to be called ITT? Some people are doing Dking, I'm doing Kingsland, could do DKL, etc. What would you prefer?]
While I think that TCM's pursuing of Generic reflects worse because of the overt "hey, this guy is going to be tilting/bad forever so let's lynch the fruit...oh and let's do it before there's much discussion," Kingsland is looking pretty bad to me as well. His post above feels very opportunistic, and reads easily as having come from a scummy mindset.
-----
Voxx: what do you think of Kingsland?
AE: You were scum with Hawk in Chimes. What do you think of his play so far in this game?
Misting & Shark: what are your reads so far? You've both been quieter than I'm used to.
-----
PPE: Kingsland's new post looks bad as well, and somehow makes 281 look even poorer. Bussing? Why make post 281 if you're voting for TCM?
I'm voting for TCM right now because of reasons I have already stated.
Also, TCM totally misrepped my post #209. My post on EtR's activity in the thread had nothing to do with his limited posting. While discussing Kosa's alignment, it came up that it was not him, but EtR, who first mentioned Shark's RVS-breaking habits. Someone asked if EtR had pursued it any further than that, and I responded with 209 to confirm that he had not.
As for Generic, he has not responded to the questions I posed to him, although he has responded to others who have posted after. I proposed some very valid points in #243 and I'd like to see them addressed. I had a null to slightly-town read on him earlier in the game, and am reluctant to join his wagon when I am not yet sure whether to attribute his actions to scum mentality or getting overly emotional from frustration.
You guys can call me whatever works for you... DK, DKings, etc.
I was just about to declare how town Generic has looked so far, but I happened to look at the postgame of Basic #74 (which Generic won as scum), and it looks like he has more experience and ability than I had assumed. (I haven't read the actual game itself yet.)
Based on my previous image of what kind of player he is, his play had the markings of a "town VI" (as Tar calls it), but I now think that my image was mistaken. I'll reserve judgment until after I've read through some of Basic #74 and reread his play here, but I think this info should be known so that we're all looking through the correct lens.
However, this does not change the fact that hawk still needs to be pressured.
@Kosa
I had like 4 or 5 people that I thought were leaning scum at the time. I was investigating my top 3. You seem a little tense and paranoid. Why are you so special that you deserve my attention?
Because I'm trying to discern who is misguided town and who is opportunistic scum regarding my wagon, and your stated reasoning on me makes me fairly sure you're the second option.
Oh really? When did I vote for you or push for your lynch? I just said what my thoughts about you were when I was asked.
So you like dking's vote on TCM, but then you ask him about why he thinks TCM is scum?
Do you think TCM is scum? You haven't commented on TCM's only other post #117 (you know, the one with more content), and instead only focused on #38 (you know, the one with the vote on you). Is this basically an OMGUS?
I liked dking's recent posts and was curious if he saw something about TCM that I did not.
About the buddying thing, I'm newish to forum mafia and thought that applied to scum to town interactions as well as scum to scum interactions. I thought Scum want to clear each other unless they are caught and need to bus. This was the logic I used regarding Hans and Kosa.
At least one of the latter two is wrong. I don't see two scum buddies hopping on newbie together. Need to discern which one has nefarious intentions.
Unvote
Vote: 7Hawk77
This one is iron-clad, though.
You have an RVS vote and then a naked vote. These are your only posts in the game.
Please list two town reads and why?
Do you have any updates on your read on misting/EtR?
What is your opinion on the Kosa/Shark situation?
Pointless question, deflect, deflect.
Why is my questions to DYH pointless? He had hardly any posts and I wanted him to comment on the current situation which he did. Do you not want him to be active in the game? Is he your scum buddy?
@Taredas
I think dking is town.
I've already touched on why I asked him about TCM.
@Generic
The more I think about it, the more I think your VT claim could have just been a tactic to clear you before things got worse regardless if you are VT or not. Why have you broken my trust :C
Unvote
I'm going to look more in to generic, TCM, Hans and shark, . I think that there has to be one scum out of TCM and generic. Hans' interactions with Kosa has been really strange and shark is acting scummier than his usual RVS scum trick.
Now this post, though, I don't like. This is sniping low-hanging-fruit of the highest degree. Generic tilted. It happens. That doesn't mean that he's magically useless for the rest of the game now. I'll point out myself in Checks and Balances -- I tilted HARD d1, but I pulled out of it and was at least passable for the rest of the game. On top of that, do we really want to move that quickly on D1? We've got almost two weeks until deadline -- while I'm FIRMLY a fan of not going to deadline on d1, after the last several games which have done so -- I do feel that we could safely plan to use at least a week of that time to tease out some more conversation and get some firmer reads on people before going to night phase.
Your argument stinks.
I disagree with this statement, a lot. I didn't read through Tanarin's game that just finished, but I did read the last ~2 pages or so. Generic knows exactly what he's doing. My vote isn't bad. My vote is based on the fact that I believe he is doing this on purpose.
Generic knows very well what he's doing. I endgamed basic #74 against him and was sure he was on my team.
Based on your experience with him there, is this town Generic or scum Generic?
I need to reread him because I put him on the backburner due to my flawed assumptions.
I'm not sure yet. I haven't seen town Generic, so I don't know if he pulls silly gambits like the VT claim as town.
Sentences like "I like you voxx, i have been an obvious a**hole and yet every single reply has been very on topic, unjudging and inquisitive." remind me a lot of why I thought he was scum on day 1 tho.
So you like dking's vote on TCM, but then you ask him about why he thinks TCM is scum?
Do you think TCM is scum? You haven't commented on TCM's only other post #117 (you know, the one with more content), and instead only focused on #38 (you know, the one with the vote on you). Is this basically an OMGUS?
I liked dking's recent posts and was curious if he saw something about TCM that I did not.
You are not answering all my questions. Do you think TCM is scum? If so, what exactly did you see about him, given that you only commented on his vote on you?
Were you just looking to barn dking because you couldn't justify your own vote?
About the buddying thing, I'm newish to forum mafia and thought that applied to scum to town interactions as well as scum to scum interactions. I thought Scum want to clear each other unless they are caught and need to bus. This was the logic I used regarding Hans and Kosa.
Question to everyone else: Is hawk really this new to forum mafia that he would not know what buddying is?
Why is my questions to DYH pointless? He had hardly any posts and I wanted him to comment on the current situation which he did. Do you not want him to be active in the game? Is he your scum buddy?
1) Asking for town reads is pointless if you're trying to hunt scum.
2) So you wanted him to comment on the current situation, and you were satisfied by his answers? That's the kind of activity that you were looking to get out of him?
Tell me, hawk, do you think I'm scum? Do you think DYH is scum?
Do you think TCM is scum? You haven't commented on TCM's only other post #117 (you know, the one with more content), and instead only focused on #38 (you know, the one with the vote on you). Is this basically an OMGUS?
You aren't even reading my full posts. Here let me relink it for you.
I'm going to look more in to generic, TCM, Hans and shark, . I think that there has to be one scum out of TCM and generic. Hans' interactions with Kosa has been really strange and shark is acting scummier than his usual RVS scum trick.
1) Asking for town reads is pointless if you're trying to hunt scum.
2) So you wanted him to comment on the current situation, and you were satisfied by his answers? That's the kind of activity that you were looking to get out of him?
Tell me, hawk, do you think I'm scum? Do you think DYH is scum?
I thought that DYH posting two things that didn't contribute was scummy. His reply was congruent with his play style so I got what I wanted from asking those questions and will move on to other scumspects.
You should be able to use context to answer the questions you have asked me if you carefully read my posts which you obviously haven't.
If I list 4 scumspects and you aren't one of them, what do you think that means?
@Generic
I need to carefully look in to you so that you don't fool me. I'm not going to try and policy lynch you lol.
That impulsiveness is why I think you were labeled under the VI archetype. It's not that you're inherently not-intelligent, or have no idea how to play mafia - but that you fit in the grouping of players that might make that kind of play, regardless of the reason.
Yours is impulse control.
And I think I've beaten that horse into the ground at this point.
@Silver
I think DKings is town. I commented on him earlier... somewhere. I can go back and find it if you need to. He's new, and there was a lack of self-awareness, and almost...comfortable air to him that I think new scum would have difficulty projecting.
Isn't someone I'm interested in at all at the moment.
Regarding the Seppel thing - I'm not sure if that's a compliment or an insult, to be honest. I generally operate on D1's mostly in the shadows, letting other people drive the interactions that I analyse after I get flips.
But given that I have some free time, I decided to do some of the work myself, this game.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Explain how the town benefits from you claiming vanilla town under virtually no pressure, then.
I can't reconcile 'being aware of the consequences' with you doing so.
The primary objective of VT is to be active, be clearly pro-town, and draw the NK in the place of a power role.
You've basically ensured that it can't happen, and I just can't fathom a town motivation or mindset for doing it.
Unless you were just not thinking, are inexperienced, or lacked a basic grasp on mafia theory. (Or were a VI, to use the disliked phrase).
But that's not the case - so please walk me through very slowly and carefully why you felt the need to claim VT when you did, despite knowing that it was a suboptimal play to do so.
Okay, there was a miscommunication in my brain about what 'notes' meant, in this case.
To people that are feeling it whoosh over their head - in the latter stages of Mafia Redux, I had a conversation with Taredas about playstyles, and talked about how passive I tend to be on D1. I'm trying to change that, as while I do think I'm a solid player later in the game, my D1's haven't been accomplishing much. Admittedly most of my posting frequency this game has stemmed from the fact that I've had no work and been sick the last few days - it won't continue at this rate.
But the point still stands and such.
@ Generic: You're taking that way too personally. Why do you keep essentially daring us to lynch you? That's the second time you have done that.
The context of the situation is that you were under almost no pressure. One person was poking you with a stick, and you claim VT. You were in no danger of being lynched.
I'm just asking you to explain your thought process about /why/ you claimed VT, when you also claim that you are aware of the consequences.
If you are town, you are either aware of the consequences and don't care (i.e. you are playing in an anti-town manner intentionally), or you aren't actually aware of the consequences of claiming VT without prompting, and are getting upset at people assuming you weren't aware of the consequences.
The third option is that you are scum, and hoped to get people to dismiss you as town.
I don't have a strong read on you at the moment, hence trying to get you to walk me through the thought process, so I can better identify the mindset behind it.
Yes, you are better value to the mafia alive, because you are not a power role. Which is the entire reason we're even having this conversation - there was no reason to claim when you did.
But I'm not calling you scum for doing so - I'm trying to figure out your alignment, and it's like you are intentionally trying to keep me from doing so.
Can you please answer the following questions, as concisely as you can:
1) When only one person expressed a scum read on you, why did you claim Vanilla Town?
2) Did you think that you were going to be lynched at the time that you claimed, due to one person expressing suspicion?
I feel the need to discuss this part of your post for a minute.
You are basically acknowledging that scum does not want to see an "easy out" die early.
That very logic can be applied to posts 98 and 99, where you immediately came to take the heat off me, an inexperienced player, as soon as EtR and Misting put my name in the vote column.
I'm also interested in hearing your response to my other question... why have you dared us to lynch you twice? Shouldn't their own lynch be the absolute last thing any townie wants?
Again this self-centeredness. We don't care about you weakening your position. It's about how it affects town.
For every VT that claims, it informs the scum team of the optimal choices to make regarding night actions.
I know you are claiming that the game is played subjectively, and you're largely right when it comes to the daytime aspect of things - but objectively, revealing yourself as VT makes it harder for power roles to survive, as it effectively removes yourself from the pool of players that can be a power role.
But despite the dislike for the Taredas vote (I think he's pretty solidly town), and dislike of the self-focused nature of your analysis of the situation, I think you're probably town, at this point.
I agree with Rhand that it reads as self-focused, but I also think that it reads somewhat genuine in that regard - I don't think you truly considered how it'd impact the town as a whole, rather than your own position, which is the core reason behind my exasperation earlier.
Chill bro, just a game. Here you should be more worried about being lynched than on what people think about your own self.
Hey, hey, Kosa.
What are your thoughts on Rhand, currently?
His post seemed like he spent much more time on in than the other's. I get
RVS fun, but when it feels like he is trying too hard, which to me, reads scummy as RVS or not, we should be paying close attention to motives. I almost went after KK just for the sake of spamming the thread up. His post count generically goes up, and he can lurk more in plain sight without scrutiny.
Ok Iso. All you did was made yourself a more likely target for a potential vig shot. @#4 I broke RVS, and will continue to do so. To quote a good friend of mines favorite EDH philosophy, and an amazing band:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyc8bmDyJY1rnl7dpo1_500.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/no%2520fun%2520not%2520ever&h=700&w=448&sz=83&tbnid=SYHfuuZ0Q-0yoM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=58&zoom=1&usg=__YScFzAnrIFvLXyYzMkuRfk0LU-w=&docid=GfkIDxwVfcZxJM&sa=X&ei=GmXKUYTQAqGfyQHl54HYDg&ved=0CEAQ9QEwAg&dur=328
So, Generic will be the default lynch for today? Sounds fine.
It was null, but incredibly poor play. We could spend pages discussing whether it was a town/scum motivation. Unless he continues to play poorly/scummy, let's move on.
Also, I did read the "spam". Maybe the rest of you should tone it down as hitting 300 pages is quite depressing. Considering I can almost ignore an entire (50 page) page is pretty garbage.
From this point on, I will just be quoting sections. This muilti quote thing confuses and infuriates me, and I wish it would go back to the way it was...>
Um, explain? The FOS probably made it more obvious to me, but he quoted Rhand, not me.
Huge fence sitting, and a random question about three players he didn't mention much in the post I previously quoted. This post makes me dislike Vox right now.
@Vox: I remember in a previous post, you stated I was town, but didn't give a reason. Why do you think I am town? Also, what about his vote did you not like?
Bad vote is bad. I want to go through exactly why you believe me to be going after the "low hanging fruit", and why it cannot be legitimately hunting?
His vote on me was essentially "re-read, vote TCM" without giving any reason. In addition, if you want to investigate Taredas, why is pushing me good?
Why?
-_-
His last three posts have been nothing but spitting out questions at everyone who posts towards him. This looks like he is trying pretty hard to appear to be scumhunting, but doing it poorly. I like my vote right now.
On page 5 now (50pp). This **** really needs to slow down. There are certain players that might only be able to post once/twice a day.
Next post will be responding to the last two pages of content...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I don't like Hawk's Taredas vote, because I think Taredas is town.
But I don't think it's a scumtell to be wrong (especially when the person in question isn't confirmed as being town).
I had a light town read on you pretty early because something read as fairly genuine, will have to go back through and find it, didn't make a note of post number.
Do you have an example of a town game or two of yours? I think I've only played with you when you were mafia (twice) and a SK.
#1: Your post makes no sense. SF has been around long enough to not be "baited into shennanigans".
#2: I have fewer posts than him, as does other players. The game started yesterday, calm your tits.
#1: If you are going to be pissy about it, you could report it the post in question. Because guess what?: We can't see his comment if no one reports.
#2: He is attacking your playstyle, not you. And for good reason. In the good ol days, you would have been lynched already for such poor play. Getting lynched early teaches you not to make the same mistake again. It seems this generation is much more lenient towards that, but I digress...
#3: In this exact same paragraph, "Not a joke, a serious OMGUS vote" What praytell, are you hoping to accomplish with that?
Whats to walk you through? Im still waiting on this mass voting im supposed to be receiving for my actions. Cos so far the only thing that has happened is the one vote on me was rescinded by the same guy who called me the mafia equivalent of a moron.
You know what? Unvote Hawk, Vote Generic. I'll deal with Hawk tomorrow, but I can't really justify being wrong with hawk to ignore a player who I can't see being any help to the town. He is already in shutdown mode, his claim means we at worse, lost a vanilla town, and I hate to say it, but his scumhunting skills aren't really developed yet.
He is questioning your claim, but it makes no sense at all. Even your tone when you were claiming seemed to imply: "I claiming just because, you aren't getting anything out of it."
Safe lynch is safe. I'll happily vote hawk if you really want to push him, but I think we have a potential scum sitting here, and let's be honest: Short of a cop targeting him, he is going to be lynched eventually, while never targeted by the mafia (if town).
Hahahaha.
I am going to have to look back. I think out of all the players, I have one of (if not, THE) highest ratio of non-town to town games. Will post in the next post.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Voxx pretty much explained it. We want our VT's to get nightkilled so that our PR's can continue doing their jobs. Town role info, even not having a role, should stay hidden as long as possible.
TCM: The vote from DK wasn't naked. I had the same reaction when I first read his post, but there's a bit more reasoning at the start of his post: (bolded for emphasis)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=401709&page=44
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=390005
Sad part is, there aren't many games left I am missing (that I was town in)
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I've been anti-town once (FHF) on this site and haven't been mafia in 3-4 years.
Let's keep it that way, I like being town.
Thanks for the links, though, I'll look things over later. Not sure if they'll be any help given that it has been a while, but can't hurt.
Reconcile you saying this, with pushing for what even you acknowledge to be the 'safe lynch'.
No, I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page. So how is what Misting did (Voting Dking right after me) different than what happened here?
I do need to update my stats, thanks for the reminder.
As far as Taredas's case, at first blush I'm not a fan of it because it's a lot of "town wouldn't say this" and the like. However, Generic's out of nowhere claim is bad for a few reasons, in my opinion. First, and most obvious, town shouldn't do that; but it happens. Second, I defended Kosa (along with Rhand) in Innistrad because I felt as though KK had done it from a town perspective. I'm not getting that same vibe here. Lastly, he's been needling people all game and the questions he's asked make me feel like he is looking to get someone to slip on something. I have him as leaning scum at this point.
I expected to have more time, but I'm going to have to wrap this up for the moment.
Unvote DKing; Vote Generic. DKing's response to my vote (seeing why I was voting him and acknowledging it, not freaking out, etc) were really good. However, Generic's claim was bad and doesn't give me the same feeling that KK did.
I'm very V/LA through 7/1, but it's a business trip so it's more LA than V. I should still be able to post at least once or so a day, yesterday was just my off day here.
Look at his last few posts...By all means, continue to scumhunt, but I think we got one right here, and at worse case scenario, minimal loss is we are wrong.
I also said that, getting sick of players asking for more posts (like yesterday, when AE said he wanted to see me post more, despite my last post being less than 12 hours ago).
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What do you learn about other people's alignments if you lynch Generic?
Who is more likely to be town if he flips town?
Who is more likely to be scum?
Does lynching Generic help us Figure Things Out?
How people jumped on his wagon, and for what purpose.
I don't get the point of these questions. There are only 2/3 votes on him right now. I don't know who would be town or scum, because there hasn't been much comment on him as of today. There is an aweful lot of fence sitting though.
The problem with your question is that I can literally ask that about any other person we try to lynch today. Whoever is legitimately pushing a certain wagon is town, regardless of flip, and whoever looks like they were jumping for an opportunity is scum.
It will remove a layer of doubt that I am sure everyone who has seen Generic's post possesses. A night filled with PR roles, with the mafia flying blind will also make for a strong day 2.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Not a fan of the 'easy lynch' push, but I think he genuinely believes it's the right play. His last post especially reads genuine.
I disagree with almost all of it, but that's more mafia theory than really relevant to his alignment.
But I don't think that's going to be productive right now.
Hm.
He's scum regardless of Kosa's alignment.
I know it's difficult sometimes, but try to isolate what people say in the game, from personal attacks on you. Hyperbole happens, exagerration happens, and emotions can run high when you are both being attacked, and doing the attacking.
To some people, the others in the game are merely names on the screen - almost like a character, as it were - try not to take things personally. Consider VI to be a nebulous description of an archetype of player, for example - someone who may not actually be an 'idiot' as the phrase would say, but someone that you can see doing things in a certain way.
The TL;DR here is - don't take things personally, even if I acknowledge that it can be difficult not to, sometimes.
This is true. TCM among others has that edge to him that can really hurt you. But it's still a game and it's the way he plays it.
@Jonpike: are you keeping notes? I am interested in how your read on Kosa f.e. evolves during your reading.
There's a certain self-awareness evident in not wanting to comment on things that we may have moved past. Scum that doesn't want to take the chance at slipping, when there's no real gain to be had?
Hm.
Looking forwards to his catchup post.
I totally agree with this.
Why has no one latched on to this yet?
Generic claims VT under minimal pressure, then drops not-so-subtle hints that he is actually a PR when pushed some more. He is definitely hitting the panic button. The question becomes why... I for one do not believe he is a VT playing poorly. So is it because he really is a town PR and is cracking under pressure because he fears a mislynch is in his immediate future, or is it because he is scum and knows the heat is about to get turned up?
This isn't a productive line of thought, I don't think.
I'm reasonably sure Generic is town, but he's an acceptable Vig target - not interested in lynching him.
This sums up my feelings about Hawk quite nicely. Everything is forced. I find the the "ask pointless questions" tell to be a rather good one. I've been guilty of it multiple times in the past as scum. You want to contribute to the game, but not really offer any insight? Ask a bunch of questions to make it look like you're scum-hunting and contributing. But you're really not doing either.
It's unfortunate that TCM has taken to trying to policy lynch Generic, instead. I do agree with Voxx's analysis of him, though - the impression that he truly believes this is the 'Right Thing To Do', but I don't agree.
EtR's vote is awful. He's second on the list now, Misting at third.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I like this post. More on Generic later.
Now this post, though, I don't like. This is sniping low-hanging-fruit of the highest degree. Generic tilted. It happens. That doesn't mean that he's magically useless for the rest of the game now. I'll point out myself in Checks and Balances -- I tilted HARD d1, but I pulled out of it and was at least passable for the rest of the game. On top of that, do we really want to move that quickly on D1? We've got almost two weeks until deadline -- while I'm FIRMLY a fan of not going to deadline on d1, after the last several games which have done so -- I do feel that we could safely plan to use at least a week of that time to tease out some more conversation and get some firmer reads on people before going to night phase.
Your argument stinks.
Vote TCM
Rationale? I feel like you're channeling Seppel this game (both a good and a bad thing).
Generic: how much actual experience do you have? I think that you replied earlier ITT that you're in a bunch of games right now, but don't have many/any completeds, or something to the nature?
I get the feeling that Generic is in a similar position to myself from Survival Horror. As such, I am firmly against lynching him at this juncture, and indeed I think that adding more pressure will only serve to make things worse for the town.
I don't like Kingsland's post here in the slightest. Speculating about whether Generic is actually a PR or not will only serve to out a PR if he is one. Let the scumteam worry about whether he's actually a VT or not. We don't need nor want to put that information into the thread.
[Sidenote: Kingsland, what do you want to be called ITT? Some people are doing Dking, I'm doing Kingsland, could do DKL, etc. What would you prefer?]
While I think that TCM's pursuing of Generic reflects worse because of the overt "hey, this guy is going to be tilting/bad forever so let's lynch the fruit...oh and let's do it before there's much discussion," Kingsland is looking pretty bad to me as well. His post above feels very opportunistic, and reads easily as having come from a scummy mindset.
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Voxx: what do you think of Kingsland?
AE: You were scum with Hawk in Chimes. What do you think of his play so far in this game?
Misting & Shark: what are your reads so far? You've both been quieter than I'm used to.
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PPE: Kingsland's new post looks bad as well, and somehow makes 281 look even poorer. Bussing? Why make post 281 if you're voting for TCM?
I'm voting for TCM right now because of reasons I have already stated.
Also, TCM totally misrepped my post #209. My post on EtR's activity in the thread had nothing to do with his limited posting. While discussing Kosa's alignment, it came up that it was not him, but EtR, who first mentioned Shark's RVS-breaking habits. Someone asked if EtR had pursued it any further than that, and I responded with 209 to confirm that he had not.
As for Generic, he has not responded to the questions I posed to him, although he has responded to others who have posted after. I proposed some very valid points in #243 and I'd like to see them addressed. I had a null to slightly-town read on him earlier in the game, and am reluctant to join his wagon when I am not yet sure whether to attribute his actions to scum mentality or getting overly emotional from frustration.
You guys can call me whatever works for you... DK, DKings, etc.
Based on my previous image of what kind of player he is, his play had the markings of a "town VI" (as Tar calls it), but I now think that my image was mistaken. I'll reserve judgment until after I've read through some of Basic #74 and reread his play here, but I think this info should be known so that we're all looking through the correct lens.
However, this does not change the fact that hawk still needs to be pressured.
Based on your experience with him there, is this town Generic or scum Generic?
I need to reread him because I put him on the backburner due to my flawed assumptions.
Oh really? When did I vote for you or push for your lynch? I just said what my thoughts about you were when I was asked.
I liked dking's recent posts and was curious if he saw something about TCM that I did not.
About the buddying thing, I'm newish to forum mafia and thought that applied to scum to town interactions as well as scum to scum interactions. I thought Scum want to clear each other unless they are caught and need to bus. This was the logic I used regarding Hans and Kosa.
Why is my questions to DYH pointless? He had hardly any posts and I wanted him to comment on the current situation which he did. Do you not want him to be active in the game? Is he your scum buddy?
@Taredas
I think dking is town.
I've already touched on why I asked him about TCM.
@Generic
The more I think about it, the more I think your VT claim could have just been a tactic to clear you before things got worse regardless if you are VT or not. Why have you broken my trust :C
Unvote
I'm going to look more in to generic, TCM, Hans and shark, . I think that there has to be one scum out of TCM and generic. Hans' interactions with Kosa has been really strange and shark is acting scummier than his usual RVS scum trick.
Outdated Mafia Stats
I disagree with this statement, a lot. I didn't read through Tanarin's game that just finished, but I did read the last ~2 pages or so. Generic knows exactly what he's doing. My vote isn't bad. My vote is based on the fact that I believe he is doing this on purpose.
I'm not sure yet. I haven't seen town Generic, so I don't know if he pulls silly gambits like the VT claim as town.
Sentences like "I like you voxx, i have been an obvious a**hole and yet every single reply has been very on topic, unjudging and inquisitive." remind me a lot of why I thought he was scum on day 1 tho.
Didn't see this - but yeah, exactly the vibe I got from reading the last page or so.
You are not answering all my questions. Do you think TCM is scum? If so, what exactly did you see about him, given that you only commented on his vote on you?
Were you just looking to barn dking because you couldn't justify your own vote?
Question to everyone else: Is hawk really this new to forum mafia that he would not know what buddying is?
1) Asking for town reads is pointless if you're trying to hunt scum.
2) So you wanted him to comment on the current situation, and you were satisfied by his answers? That's the kind of activity that you were looking to get out of him?
Tell me, hawk, do you think I'm scum? Do you think DYH is scum?
You aren't even reading my full posts. Here let me relink it for you.
I thought that DYH posting two things that didn't contribute was scummy. His reply was congruent with his play style so I got what I wanted from asking those questions and will move on to other scumspects.
You should be able to use context to answer the questions you have asked me if you carefully read my posts which you obviously haven't.
If I list 4 scumspects and you aren't one of them, what do you think that means?
@Generic
I need to carefully look in to you so that you don't fool me. I'm not going to try and policy lynch you lol.
Outdated Mafia Stats
That impulsiveness is why I think you were labeled under the VI archetype. It's not that you're inherently not-intelligent, or have no idea how to play mafia - but that you fit in the grouping of players that might make that kind of play, regardless of the reason.
Yours is impulse control.
And I think I've beaten that horse into the ground at this point.
@Silver
I think DKings is town. I commented on him earlier... somewhere. I can go back and find it if you need to. He's new, and there was a lack of self-awareness, and almost...comfortable air to him that I think new scum would have difficulty projecting.
Isn't someone I'm interested in at all at the moment.
Regarding the Seppel thing - I'm not sure if that's a compliment or an insult, to be honest. I generally operate on D1's mostly in the shadows, letting other people drive the interactions that I analyse after I get flips.
But given that I have some free time, I decided to do some of the work myself, this game.