I disapprove of the bloating of Kosa's question to Shark. It is being blown out of proportion in an attempt to put focus on Kosa and thus get him to say something that seems scummy.
@kosa- How would you best describe the mood that you are in right now?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Hey Shark, time to break RVS bro, cmon the crowd is counting on you.
+
Quote from Kosa »
...Ok, so now the joke time is over, why the flying **** have you claimed Survivor in the game's 9th post?
=
Quote from Kosa »
I was just having fun, you know that I'm a lighthearted player. I've learned the hard way how to not take Shark seriously whenever he breaks RVS with the scummiest post ever possible.
???
Mindset doesn't mesh. The forced WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT at Shark and trying to wave it off assss not taking him seriously?
Kosa's scum.
Possible, but not necessarily the case (Kosa's mindset could be explained by townKosa expecting Shark to post something scummy rather than just claim Survivor)? I think the other two people you mentioned are more likely.
* SharkFinnigan loves just sitting here as everyone else beats each other up
That actually sounds kinda scummy, flavor or not...
Not quite ready to unvote yet, methinks.
How is this scummy as opposed to, say, indicative of actually being a survivor? (Yes, Shark was falseclaiming, but at the time he hadn't clarified that.)
I just hadn't unvoted yet... because I found his comment about sitting back and letting us all beat each other up fairly scummy and I didn't have a great reason to vote anyone else.
You mean your previous post? You can't simply lay out a one-liner like that and expect us to fall for it. This is TRUE WRESTLING and that lacked STYLE dude. I've seen BETTER THINGS from you.
Not to mention that I have a hard time believing that any big muscle piles that all us certainly are would be considered Survivors of any sorts. We don't survive. We KILL. Unless it's about cocaine, I guess, then maybe...
...Ok, so now the joke time is over, why the flying **** have you claimed Survivor in the game's 9th post?
I am preemptively going to Vote: Shark due to his upcoming attempt to end RVS early like he always does.
vote EtR for attempting to lynch a survivor.
Thats not trying to flavour a hope of survival. Thats you calling yourself 'a survivor'.
unvote
vote shark
Are you scum or just not paying attention? Shark (false)claimed Survivor, yes - I fail to see how that's reason to vote him (even after he clarified that he was gambitting), especially since that claim was almost certainly intentional and scum don't usually draw attention to themselves on purpose.
I didnt have issues with it until he gave that awful excuse regarding it.
Oh hey, that answers my question: You're scum.
This is not a town justification for a vote ("didn't have issues until" = scum being worried about being caught on mindset, rhetoric is strongly reminiscent of scum painting suspicion ala dC on Asenion in Redux Mirror D1)
Looks like a couple of pipe bombs have been dropped.
Interested in the cold monarchs response to early focus, and wanting Rhand to explain that odd attack on lngrrrr. Not the attack itself that bothers me, it's how you wished to comment on the post you highlighted. Very niggly.
This post did not come from town. Note the tone, note the first sentence (nonconfrontational, indicates a "standing to the side" mindset which more commonly comes from scum than not), note the lack of push.
This isn't genuine suspicion, it's looking for mud to sling.
archmage makes a convincing arguement there, to the point im starting to wonder if i was suckered into a tactical play. There is no vote on him from kosa, and kosa is cleverly scorning those who pick up the ball he is throwing and running with it.
unvote
kosa, you get the right of reply here, i will decide if a vote is worthwhile after you respond to archmages accusations.
How on earth is this supposed to make sense from a town mindset? Because I'm not seeing it.
What? I don't follow your thinking in the first bit. Can you explain some other way please?
What i interpretted archmages points to be were that kosa poked at sharks posting but never seemed to lay down a vote.
Post #74 archmage points to painting shark into a corner, points to no vote from kosa and letting others push the wagon, and pointing to kosa reaffirming a point archmage counters as untrue.
In post #75 he points ou contradictions in kosa's posting.
So i wondered if kosa has tactically made a case against shark but not been on the wagon at all, while others including me have voted for shark. Thats why i wondered if i had fallen for something tactical, and its why i unvoted while i see how this plays out. I want to hear the response from kosa because archmage made convincing points, but i dont feel a sudden vote on kosa is warranted until he had the right to reply.
Why are you so concerned about placing your vote? Moreover, if you're genuinely unsure, why are you sitting back instead of actively questioning?
I'm afraid you've lost me. Are you referring to a completed game or GIP? It's late, and I might be missing the obvious - I take notes in almost every game.
I see what you see, with Generic, but I still firmly believe Kosa to be scum.
His responses to AE in particular are calm, rational, and lengthy - that doesn't really mesh with the Town!Kosa I've seen in other games. It feels like over-explaining, defensive scum.
Hm.
AE is... probably town. He feels focused and driven, which is a super town thing to me, but it's not analogous to his town play I've seen in other games. Still think he's town, though, just a little wary.
TCM is probably town.
If Kosa flips scum (he will) EtR is my next lynch. #94 is textbook scumbuddy referencing:
Quote from EtR »
Regarding KK - pretty much the same as Shark. His early game play is crazier than most and I don't have a problem with it yet. I will say that AE made some good points though so I'm certainly watching him.
'Look how I mention that I'll be watching him, but yeah, I'll just go put my vote on the easy target'.
Could be nothing, but do not like.
Don't like Hans. #122 or #123.
'9 pages already!' is mostly null, but it doesn't feel genuine. Can't really explain it properly though, just feels forced.
But the use of 'interesting' is... interesting. It indicates that he's looking for something to talk about, rather than trying to find scum.
Plus, well. #123 + Kosa being almost certain scum = a Thing.
Kosa, EtR, Hans, ??? scum team. Probably a lurker, Jonpike or Arian.
(Mostly facetious, I don't actually think I've solved the game 125 posts in. But Kosa is scum, and we should lynch him)
I mean. Why would you reveal it with one vote on you, when claiming VT is effectively the same thing as saying 'hey, scum, never shoot me'?
You weren't under threat from lynch, yet. Yes, a VT claim at L-2 wouldn't save you. But unless you think so poorly of your own play that you can't avoid being lynched when one person is pressuring you, I'm just struggling to see how you thought claiming VT early would help town.
I'm afraid you've lost me. Are you referring to a completed game or GIP? It's late, and I might be missing the obvious - I take notes in almost every game.
I see what you see, with Generic, but I still firmly believe Kosa to be scum.
His responses to AE in particular are calm, rational, and lengthy - that doesn't really mesh with the Town!Kosa I've seen in other games. It feels like over-explaining, defensive scum.
Hm.
AE is... probably town. He feels focused and driven, which is a super town thing to me, but it's not analogous to his town play I've seen in other games. Still think he's town, though, just a little wary.
TCM is probably town.
If Kosa flips scum (he will) EtR is my next lynch. #94 is textbook scumbuddy referencing:
Quote from EtR »
Regarding KK - pretty much the same as Shark. His early game play is crazier than most and I don't have a problem with it yet. I will say that AE made some good points though so I'm certainly watching him.
'Look how I mention that I'll be watching him, but yeah, I'll just go put my vote on the easy target'.
Could be nothing, but do not like.
Don't like Hans. #122 or #123.
'9 pages already!' is mostly null, but it doesn't feel genuine. Can't really explain it properly though, just feels forced.
But the use of 'interesting' is... interesting. It indicates that he's looking for something to talk about, rather than trying to find scum.
Plus, well. #123 + Kosa being almost certain scum = a Thing.
Kosa, EtR, Hans, ??? scum team. Probably a lurker, Jonpike or Arian.
(Mostly facetious, I don't actually think I've solved the game 125 posts in. But Kosa is scum, and we should lynch him)
Bolded for emphasis. Why isn't Generic in that scum team list if you agree with Taredas?
@TCM: You didn't answer my question. Why Hawk and not another one of the flavor users?
I didn't say I agreed with him, I said I see what he sees.
Semantics a bit, but there's a difference.
I mean that I understand why he has the read he has on Generic, but I wasn't certain, myself.
Currently trying to parse Generic's recent play.
I don't think he's a poor player, and I struggle to see the mindset behind the random VT claim under minimal pressure. There are certain players that I can see doing it, but it takes a lack of awareness of optimal play, and it's delving into meta WiFOM.
I'm seeing a pretty big difference in Kosa's play here and his play when pressured in other games.
The posts are longer, calmer, and feel carefully crafted - you can't tell me that you get that vibe from his posts in other games. They are more emotional and...responsive, for a lack of a better word.
There's some emotion in the posts replying to AE, but it's primarily anger - anger at being correctly identified, but for bad reasons.
I do find it amusing when people are so sure I'm scum. Always love to see them blame it on me when they are shown to have got it completely wrong.
Taredes, you are certain my posts came from scum, I invite the bandwagon on me. Go ahead and vote me. It's ok, I'm not a pr. just VT, so go ahead.
I don't think dking is scum btw, just very new. I always carry doubts on anyone until they flip, but I don't see faking of newness.
Oh, and not a single completed mtgs game. I'm in five or six here, three or four on mafiascum and just come out of one on coloholics, do if I seem confused on information it might be due to other games confusing matters for me.
Gain? Why would I hope to gain? Claiming VT at L-2 is likely a death sentence because of the collateral damage being low from a mislynch. And I have said if you want to lynch me then feel free.
When someone runs through my posts with "this is not a town comment" or "this post did not come from town" the simple solution is to let them see how good they are at reading me. Because they are way off. But that won't be clear until I flip.
You can have the wrestler too if you like, won't make any difference.
Belay that.
Unforced, very premature vanilla claim by a Village Idiot (VI) player? Willingness to sacrifice self and defeatism?
I've seen this before (obvious example: qwints in Medieval Mafia on MafiaScum), it usually comes from town (barring a recent meta of unforced vanilla claims).
Unvote
Also, for Generic's benefit:
1) No, the simple solution to someone saying that your posts come from town is to explain how they do come from town.
2) Clearly you do not understand the nature of my certainty:
Maybe it's just MafiaScum experience talking*, but I find that, regardless of whether they actually have a firm idea on a player's alignment, town should appear to have concrete reads, should appear to be certain when attacking/questioning another player, and should be willing to vote on looser ground than usual immediately after the random vote stage (no, you probably haven't found scum yet, but the actual scum are more likely to reveal themselves this way and you can move your vote later). Most scum, by contrast, want to stand off to the side and support town attacks without actually committing their vote (and risk getting called out later by an alert town or vote count analysis).
You are the one being misleading here kosa. You clearly goaded a RVS ending post from shark. He sort of obliges and is claiming it was a joke comment in the spirit if flavour and you pounced on it. Then when it seemed to have votes tying to him you suddenly weasel away from it by claiming you never read into sharks RVS breaking posts (the one you goaded) as he always seems scummy from them.
That's a subtle foundation laid for causing suspicion on him and then walking away as an innocent party, even defending him for when this is analysed later.
I can see exactly where arch age is coming from and you haven't convinced me kosa.
unvote, vote kosakosa
Jesus Christ.
His survivor post came two posts before my first post in the fricking game.
In his address to me after I asked when he would break RVS, he confirmed that his previous post was serious. Hence my serious question back at him.
You're accusing me of attempting to form a wagon on Shark based on a single fricking question, that was primarily asked to help me define the alignment of a player that I have trouble reading and who historically is easily mislynched when Town precisely because people latch on his RVS-breaker post instead of thoughtfully analyzing the bigger picture.
And you do that while being as bandwaggony as one may get, after my wagon gets steam. Unvoting Shark, when his wagon leads nowhere. Right.
Your jump on him was EXACTLY what I wanted to avoid early on, when it's impossible to get a clear read on him. I've defended him before on those same reasons because I know his M.O makes him a mislynch much more often than a scum lynch.
I think Kosa is more likely town than not after this post. Response to pressure that he considers mistaken is to clearly explain his reasoning again, and the frustration (not anger, frustration) looks genuine.
Unforced, very premature vanilla claim by a Village Idiot (VI) player? Willingness to sacrifice self and defeatism?
I've seen this before (obvious example: qwints in Medieval Mafia on MafiaScum), it usually comes from town (barring a recent meta of unforced vanilla claims).
Unvote
I've seen this before too, but only from new town.
I never saw experienced town do this.
Can you clarify at all without breaching the barrier of OOG information, so to speak?
Also, dammit. I wish you hadn't done that, Re: Kosa quite yet.
I'm still about 55-60% sure he's scum, but I wanted more reactions and interactions out of people, first, before acknowledging that he isn't as sure scum as I was making him out to be.
(Quick aside) - Thoughts on the Hans and EtR Kosa comments? Both of them are making my skin crawl, which I tend to trust early in games.
Thing about that post is, frustration at being misrepresented still doesn't mean he's town - the Shark interactions that AE is pushing isn't why I think Kosa is scum. It's the self-awareness he's exhibiting, and how forced some of his early posts were.
It's possible that Rhand has the right of it, and it's a shift in tone caused by league play, but he his posts didn't have the structure and crafted tone in Chimes that they did here in defense.
I'm terrible at articulating scum reads, and 'he just feels like scum' doesn't quite cut it, heh.
Also, with regards to Generic - I don't think he's a VI. Which is why I'm having trouble making sense of things.
How would you react if I were to claim Vanilla out of nowhere early on D1 and tell you to feel free to lynch me? Serious question, part relevant, part curiosity.
Hm.
Bunch of light town reads.
Lessee.
@Fadeblue
You have a gun in your hand.
You are forced to shoot one of Misting, EtR or Hansanator, or the town loses.
You are forced to shoot one of Misting, EtR or Hansanator, or the town loses.
Who do you shoot at this point, and why?
If it *had* to be one of those three?
hansanator only has 2 posts, both of which are bad. I have no idea what his play is like, though, so I'd be pretty hesitant to shoot based on that. Between Misting and EtR, I have Misting down as more townish, but neither is a strong read. I would probably shoot EtR, since it'd probably be more informative (though not very).
However, I wouldn't want to bet on any of those right now. If I had a choice, I would shoot hawk, because I think he's the most likely scum out of everyone who has posted so far.
Here, you can have all of my early reads:
hansanator - Null to weakly scum. Not enough content yet. EtR - Null to weakly town. Generic - Leaning town. Kosakosa - Leaning town, but very tentative. From glancing at some posts in a few games recently, I've seen several comments that KK's town play is scummy. I've never actually played with KK before, so I don't know if I am compensating in my reads. In my quick notes, I have him down with more ?s than +s. dkingsland967 - Weakly town, but mostly lots of newb tells without any newbscum tells yet (besides #64 which is weak). I prefer holding off on this type of newb, because alignment should become a lot clearer as time goes on. Voxxicus - Leaning town. Archmage Eternal - Null. Lots of question marks in my notes. jonpike1 - Has not yet posted. DYH - Only one post. Misting - Null to weakly town. I read his early posts as more townish, but looking a little questionable since the dkingsland vote. Rhand - Likely town. I like almost all of his posts. 7hawk77 - Leaning scum. Not enough content, but all of his posts are bad. Arainrhod - Has not yet posted. TheColdMonarch - Null. I like his last post, but not enough content to decide. However, he is voting hawk, which I agree with. LnGrrrR - Null. Not enough content. Taredas - Leaning town. Sharkfinnigan - Weakly town.
The big problem is that this is *a lot* of (at least weak) town reads, so I'm pretty sure not all of them are right. Like I said, these are only early reads.
But while I'm still iffy on most of the players, hawk is the only one my gut feels strongly about.
For everyone who is asking about Generic's unforced claim, what would scum get from that gambit? The only thing I can see is that people will "accept" him as VT and give him a pass. But really, it's not like we are going to stop analyzing him. Feels pretty null to me one way or another.
I don't know enough about Kosa's meta to determine if he's acting "normal" or not. He feels townie in this game though.
Not a fan of TCM poking in just to say, "Hey guys, too much content, not gonna bother to read all this spam" and then disappearing again.
@kosa- How would you best describe the mood that you are in right now?
Pretty much (at the time I went to sleep, not like, right now).
What frustrates me the most is that in every other game I get scolded for doing something that I generally do in all or most games I play. I joke around all the time, but once in a while, people want my head for it. I more often than not claim my role and actions out of nowhere when I judge necessary, but once in a while, people think I'm dumb scum gambitting or lying. I purposefully try to behave differently from game to game to avoid being easily metable, but once in a while people come in and say "TOWN KOSA DOESN'T BEHAVE LIKE THAT HANG HIM HE'S DIRTY SCUM YAARG" *looks at Rhand and Arianrhod*
Then I ask a (very relevant, in my PoV) question and the world explodes. Like, seriously?
On Generic: Claiming VT is null, I've done it in Innistrad (I was indeed VT), I can totally see this coming from a way-too-honest townie. While I don't like how he easily hopped from Shark's wagon to mine, he seemed honest in acknowledging his mistake and stepping back. Seems more of a paranoid townie than anything.
When I'm at my computer later I will run through everyone in the game and give you all my early opinions on each. I will make it a full t/s list if you guys care what I think at this stage
We obviously do. You will have to work double time after that claim to compensate for it
Preemptive apologies for the massive post. I've gotten into the habit of making smaller, more easily digested posts -- but since we were on page 10 when I first checked the thread, I think that a big post now will save a lot of headaches later.
Now I feel completely justified in voting The Cold Monarch for being against flavor.
Care to point out why Hawk posting wrestling flavored posts is scummy? Because if posting wrestling flavored content is scummy, then I don't wanna be town.
Why do you need to feel justified in voting? Bad conscience?
Good that you don't wanna be town, because I don't think you are.
Vote: LnGrrrR
/Barn. More on this later, as Rhand backtracks on the issue pending language confusion....I'm not sure that he should have allowed himself to think that he was confused, however.
* SharkFinnigan loves just sitting here as everyone else beats each other up
...
As others have said, we got through this every game with you, and it really isn't determinant of your alignment in any way, shape, or form. But my god, this post is so bad. Like, I'm sure you're just sitting there cackling with sadistic glee IRL at the chaos you cause, but posts like this really make me want to lynch you ._.
Now I feel completely justified in voting The Cold Monarch for being against flavor.
Care to point out why Hawk posting wrestling flavored posts is scummy? Because if posting wrestling flavored content is scummy, then I don't wanna be town.
Why do you need to feel justified in voting? Bad conscience?
Good that you don't wanna be town, because I don't think you are.
Vote: LnGrrrR
Read what I wrote again. I said NOW I feel justified. I never said I needed to feel justified. In other words, my vote WASN'T justified, and now it is. In even simpler terms, it is no longer an RVS vote.
I hope that's clear enough for you.
Okay, so here's this. Rhand then retreats from his pressuring of LnGrrrR [OoG: I keep reading LnG's name as "Lone Ranger" in my head, I have NO IDEA WHY].
I don't agree with LNG's assertion here.
Original post:
"Now I feel completely justified in voting The Cold Monarch for being against flavor."
I read this initially (as I'm guessing Rhand did) with the emphasis as such:
"Now I feel completely justified in voting The Cold Monarch for being against flavor."
This translates to a mindset of something along the lines, "I wasn't entirely comfortably with this vote before, but now that this slip happened, I am."
LNG's attempted deflection here tries to shift the emphasis to the now:
"Now I feel completely justified in voting The Cold Monarch for being against flavor."
I feel that if LNG had wanted to alert everyone that his RVS vote was no longer RVS, he could have accomplished this much more simply by just saying as much, instead of couching it in this confusion language. I don't think it's a HUGE deal, but I will be keeping a strict eye on LNG, and I'm not sure that Rhand should be second-guessing himself here.
@Misting: I've played three or four games with Shark where he, consciously or not, broke RVS with incredibly scummy posts, normally making him the first player brought to L-2 and sometimes lynched.
IIRC, he was town in the vast majority of those games, so I learned to simply ignore the scumminess within his RVS-breaker because I know he does that regardless of alignment. Shark cannot be easily read on D1.
But exactly because he does that regardless of alignment that I feel the need to ask him why he did it after play time is over. He can't be given a free pass on it just because he does it every time, but at the same time that isn't a reason to believe he's scum because that alone doesn't say anything about his alignment.
I actually agree with Kosa on this subject. Just because Shark does this every game does not mean that Shark shouldn't be called on it. It'll take more than just this usual BS for me to want to lynch Shark on D1 in [games], but we do still need to be clear with regards to where Shark is coming from.
While on the Kosa subject, I will note here that I do not believe AE and Kosa to be scum together, if in fact either of them is scum. This AE reminds me a lot of OtR (where he was town), and as I'll note to Voxx later, this Kosa reminds me of Chimes (again, town).
AE also was willing to pounce on starting a wagon himself, where as Kosa may have tried to prompt others to do the dirty work.
This is a very scummy post. What's your actual opinion? Kosa "may" have done a lot of things. I do agree that AE looks better than Kosa right now, but this reads like an attempt at smearing.
I'm ok with being jumped on... it's more valuable experience than reading completed games to help me learn to watch how I speak about things so I don't get mislynched for coming off scummy.
AE seems +Town. Kosa seems null... AE is right about how he jumped on Shark out of nowhere, but Kosa's points about Shark were also totally valid.
Also, a question about Shark's alleged Survivor claim... if I understand its general design, Survivor is NOT an anti-town role, correct?
Without making this a tutorial, if you are town you shouldn't care how you sound, you should be putting your attentions into analysing others. My concern is I'm giving you too much leniency for your status... Especially since I only have your word that you are new to mafia as a whole.
Coaching in plain sight?
"Without making this a tutorial" reads poorly to me. It's like Generic is self-aware that he's obviously coaching, but at least makes a half-hearted attempt at staving off any incoming accusations.
I'm seeing a pretty big difference in Kosa's play here and his play when pressured in other games.
The posts are longer, calmer, and feel carefully crafted - you can't tell me that you get that vibe from his posts in other games. They are more emotional and...responsive, for a lack of a better word.
There's some emotion in the posts replying to AE, but it's primarily anger - anger at being correctly identified, but for bad reasons.
Did you read Chimes? I know that you're anti-items, so I'm guessing that you just avoided it completely (which I wouldn't blame you for, incidentally).
In Chimes, I pressured Kosa on D1 for the exact same reasoning that you're doing now, and I ended up being wrong. Kosa's primary reply was that he was trying to take the game more seriously because league game / he wanted solid feedback, which I can appreciate.
I wouldn't say that this precludes Kosa from possibly being scum, but I wouldn't use it as a reason in and of itself. It's null if anything IMO.
You are the one being misleading here kosa. You clearly goaded a RVS ending post from shark. He sort of obliges and is claiming it was a joke comment in the spirit if flavour and you pounced on it. Then when it seemed to have votes tying to him you suddenly weasel away from it by claiming you never read into sharks RVS breaking posts (the one you goaded) as he always seems scummy from them.
That's a subtle foundation laid for causing suspicion on him and then walking away as an innocent party, even defending him for when this is analysed later.
I can see exactly where arch age is coming from and you haven't convinced me kosa.
unvote, vote kosakosa
Jesus Christ.
His survivor post came two posts before my first post in the fricking game.
In his address to me after I asked when he would break RVS, he confirmed that his previous post was serious. Hence my serious question back at him.
You're accusing me of attempting to form a wagon on Shark based on a single fricking question, that was primarily asked to help me define the alignment of a player that I have trouble reading and who historically is easily mislynched when Town precisely because people latch on his RVS-breaker post instead of thoughtfully analyzing the bigger picture.
And you do that while being as bandwaggony as one may get, after my wagon gets steam. Unvoting Shark, when his wagon leads nowhere. Right.
Your jump on him was EXACTLY what I wanted to avoid early on, when it's impossible to get a clear read on him. I've defended him before on those same reasons because I know his M.O makes him a mislynch much more often than a scum lynch.
That was a FUBAR on my part there, i confused ETRs post as one of yours kosa...
unvote out of courtesy while i reassess it, because clearly i have been misrepresenting you there.
I like when people can admit mistakes. I think that this post makes generic look towny. Catching his own mistake before someone else to make sure he votes for the correct person
I'm not, just new to the Mafia forum and have only posted sparingly on the Magic forums..
Are you new to mafia or have you played elsewhere?
Why ask this?
I've never played with dkingsland and wanted to know his experience level. It is important to not confuse bad with scum and if he is inexeperienced, I want to know.
You mean your previous post? You can't simply lay out a one-liner like that and expect us to fall for it. This is TRUE WRESTLING and that lacked STYLE dude. I've seen BETTER THINGS from you.
Not to mention that I have a hard time believing that any big muscle piles that all us certainly are would be considered Survivors of any sorts. We don't survive. We KILL. Unless it's about cocaine, I guess, then maybe...
...Ok, so now the joke time is over, why the flying **** have you claimed Survivor in the game's 9th post?
VOTE KOSA
Is this RVS or serious?
Why ask this?
RVS was still going on and the vote was in all caps. A serious vote has more weight and tells more about players intentions than a "random" vote.
I feel like these are obvious questions and answers. Why are you asking obvious questions? These past two just feels like forced scumhunting that doesn't get anything accomplished.
Unforced, very premature vanilla claim by a Village Idiot (VI) player? Willingness to sacrifice self and defeatism?
I've seen this before (obvious example: qwints in Medieval Mafia on MafiaScum), it usually comes from town (barring a recent meta of unforced vanilla claims).
Unvote
I've seen this before too, but only from new town.
I never saw experienced town do this.
Generic is not a new town, he has experience. However I that he is town. He basically plays by his own rules and does what he wants. I won't be referencing any ongoing games but I do have experience playing.
Did you read Chimes? I know that you're anti-items, so I'm guessing that you just avoided it completely (which I wouldn't blame you for, incidentally).
In Chimes, I pressured Kosa on D1 for the exact same reasoning that you're doing now, and I ended up being wrong. Kosa's primary reply was that he was trying to take the game more seriously because league game / he wanted solid feedback, which I can appreciate.
I wouldn't say that this precludes Kosa from possibly being scum, but I wouldn't use it as a reason in and of itself. It's null if anything IMO.
I replaced into Chimes on D2, and did reasonably well-ish. I guess I need to go back and re-read Kosa's D1, as I skimmed his posts because I was positive Kosa was town after the tracker claim.
Quote from Silver »
Yup, you got me. /s
Hm.
This makes me want to lynch you, but most of the rest of your post reads as fairly genuine.
As others have said, we got through this every game with you, and it really isn't determinant of your alignment in any way, shape, or form. But my god, this post is so bad. Like, I'm sure you're just sitting there cackling with sadistic glee IRL at the chaos you cause, but posts like this really make me want to lynch you ._.
That was during my survivor ordeal. Obviously as survivor I wouldn't care what happens so long as I didn't die. It's the little Edge I'd have if I were the survivor.
Still catching up. Probably will pressure a newer player until I see a town read from them to start eliminated possibilities.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Probably will pressure a newer player until I see a town read from them to start eliminated possibilities.
The concept here is solid, and is pretty close to how I play... but stating that you're just going to pressure someone sort of completely negates the pressure.
Trying to decide if it's just poor town play, or if he's trying to absolve himself of accountability with his vote.
Kosa: I have him leaning scum. He was the main person trying to get me killed in the first Mafia game I played (I was scum) so I paid very close attention to his gameplay. Trying to analyze his actions is almost impossible. His contradiction about shark makes me wonder but other than that everything else seems normal for kosa.
Hans: I don't really have a read on him yet. I know he is a newer forum player but has some experience. He said that Kosa's thing with shark is being blown out of proportion so if Kosa is scum, Hans might be.
I'm not, just new to the Mafia forum and have only posted sparingly on the Magic forums..
Are you new to mafia or have you played elsewhere?
Why ask this?
I've never played with dkingsland and wanted to know his experience level. It is important to not confuse bad with scum and if he is inexeperienced, I want to know.
This feels like a revisionist explanation, because at the point you asked this, dkingsland's posts gave no indication whether he was a bad player or not. So you're saying that you preemptively wanted to know his experience level, before having seen his play?
Now that you know he is inexperienced, what is your read on him?
You mean your previous post? You can't simply lay out a one-liner like that and expect us to fall for it. This is TRUE WRESTLING and that lacked STYLE dude. I've seen BETTER THINGS from you.
Not to mention that I have a hard time believing that any big muscle piles that all us certainly are would be considered Survivors of any sorts. We don't survive. We KILL. Unless it's about cocaine, I guess, then maybe...
...Ok, so now the joke time is over, why the flying **** have you claimed Survivor in the game's 9th post?
VOTE KOSA
Is this RVS or serious?
Why ask this?
RVS was still going on and the vote was in all caps. A serious vote has more weight and tells more about players intentions than a "random" vote.
So you're saying that you could NOT tell whether that vote was RVS or serious? When he quoted that specific post?
And why did you wait until #52 to ask that, when you commented on it in your flavor post in #34? ("AE sees an oppening on the trapped Kosa and does a flying dragon kick to his chest")
Did you read Chimes? I know that you're anti-items, so I'm guessing that you just avoided it completely (which I wouldn't blame you for, incidentally).
In Chimes, I pressured Kosa on D1 for the exact same reasoning that you're doing now, and I ended up being wrong. Kosa's primary reply was that he was trying to take the game more seriously because league game / he wanted solid feedback, which I can appreciate.
I wouldn't say that this precludes Kosa from possibly being scum, but I wouldn't use it as a reason in and of itself. It's null if anything IMO.
I replaced into Chimes on D2, and did reasonably well-ish. I guess I need to go back and re-read Kosa's D1, as I skimmed his posts because I was positive Kosa was town after the tracker claim.
Quote from Silver »
Yup, you got me. /s
Hm.
This makes me want to lynch you, but most of the rest of your post reads as fairly genuine.
Decisions.
Oh, my apologies then. I'll be honest: I stopped reading Chimes other than an occasional check-in every few weeks because I was pretty salty about the modkill.
As others have said, we got through this every game with you, and it really isn't determinant of your alignment in any way, shape, or form. But my god, this post is so bad. Like, I'm sure you're just sitting there cackling with sadistic glee IRL at the chaos you cause, but posts like this really make me want to lynch you ._.
That was during my survivor ordeal. Obviously as survivor I wouldn't care what happens so long as I didn't die. It's the little Edge I'd have if I were the survivor.
Still catching up. Probably will pressure a newer player until I see a town read from them to start eliminated possibilities.
Yeah, which is why I only noted it down in my catch-up post as opposed to actually pursuing it. We've done this song and dance enough that I sort of know what to do expect; I just felt obligated to point out that that particular example was really obvscum-esque. I'm actually surprised that nobody jumped on you for it. Not sure what to think of regarding that -- kind of makes me suspicious of an experienced scum-team. I recognize the inherent danger in that (new players always think that experienced players are scum, etc), but that's where my thought process is at.
Yeah, which is why I only noted it down in my catch-up post as opposed to actually pursuing it. We've done this song and dance enough that I sort of know what to do expect; I just felt obligated to point out that that particular example was really obvscum-esque. I'm actually surprised that nobody jumped on you for it. Not sure what to think of regarding that -- kind of makes me suspicious of an experienced scum-team. I recognize the inherent danger in that (new players always think that experienced players are scum, etc), but that's where my thought process is at.
What are your thoughts on post #64, in that light?
Yeah, which is why I only noted it down in my catch-up post as opposed to actually pursuing it. We've done this song and dance enough that I sort of know what to do expect; I just felt obligated to point out that that particular example was really obvscum-esque. I'm actually surprised that nobody jumped on you for it. Not sure what to think of regarding that -- kind of makes me suspicious of an experienced scum-team. I recognize the inherent danger in that (new players always think that experienced players are scum, etc), but that's where my thought process is at.
What are your thoughts on post #64, in that light?
* SharkFinnigan loves just sitting here as everyone else beats each other up
That actually sounds kinda scummy, flavor or not...
Not quite ready to unvote yet, methinks.
I didn't really mind this post. Kingsland's #89 is much more interesting, I feel. Like, assuming that Kingsland is as he says he is (new player, not a gimmick, etc), #64 lines up perfectly with what I'd expect from him, regardless of alignment.
I also can't remember him pushing the issue at all after that point. It was more of a "fire and see where it goes" kind of post -- which could be construed as scummy...if Kingsland wasn't already on the wagon (as of #32). That's as likely to denote tender newbflesh unsure of his reads as it is of scum testing the waters. I can't see it as being more than a null post in either direction.
I'm actually leaning town on EtR for the same reason I am AE... ready and willing to start a wagon on me. Plus, unlike TCM in #38, he didn't look to be grabbing low-hanging fruit. He made a read and gave his reasoning.
Kosa's questioning of Shark does not scream to me, but #31 does.
Taredas seems +town to me.
Generic's VT claim is strange... obviously doesn't help us, but doesn't seem like something a scum would gain from. Neutral role tell, maybe?
@kosa- How would you best describe the mood that you are in right now?
Pretty much (at the time I went to sleep, not like, right now).
What frustrates me the most is that in every other game I get scolded for doing something that I generally do in all or most games I play. I joke around all the time, but once in a while, people want my head for it. I more often than not claim my role and actions out of nowhere when I judge necessary, but once in a while, people think I'm dumb scum gambitting or lying. I purposefully try to behave differently from game to game to avoid being easily metable, but once in a while people come in and say "TOWN KOSA DOESN'T BEHAVE LIKE THAT HANG HIM HE'S DIRTY SCUM YAARG" *looks at Rhand and Arianrhod*
Then I ask a (very relevant, in my PoV) question and the world explodes. Like, seriously?
Alright, Kosa seems town to me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Interesting that you thought that his questions towards me were valid. I still don't really see it.
dkingsland has came off mildly scummy early in the game but I am willing to give him a noob card pass especially with his recent posts. I know I personally have a difficult time discerning noob scum from noob town considering the scummy/paranoid nature of newer players. I like his vote on TCM though.
I could not tell if AE's vote on Kosa was RVS or serious. The caps lock and early vote is what through me off.
As far as waiting, the day took off rather quickly and I enjoy RVS/using flavor. The time difference between post 34 and 52 couldn't have been more than 30 minutes.
@dking
Is post 38 the only reason you think TCM is scum?
I'm suspicious of Misting from the way he questioned my earlier posts in a less-than-subtle manner, yet waited to vote until EtR got the ball rolling and then immediately jumped on the wagon.
Hawk I have no read on, but I really dislike both of TCM's posts so far and I don't know why he would go after Hawk early if he were bussing.
Kosa: I have him leaning scum. He was the main person trying to get me killed in the first Mafia game I played (I was scum) so I paid very close attention to his gameplay. Trying to analyze his actions is almost impossible. His contradiction about shark makes me wonder but other than that everything else seems normal for kosa.
In both games we've played together you were scum and I was town. So when you say "everything else seems normal for kosa", you're saying that, besides my "contradiction" about shark, I'm playing as I generally do.
So:
1) If that's the case, why do you have me as leaning scum instead of town, as per your words, this is my normal game?
2) If my "contradiction" about shark was enough to make you have me as leaning scum, then why have you never questioned me about it?
3) Why haven't you acknowledged the posts where I explain that wasn't a contradiction?
@Kosa
1.) I haven't seen you make a contradiction like that in previous games. You generally have a hard time getting other people to see what you see.
2.) Others have pressured you about it, I'm familiar with you as a player and wanted to look in to players that I have never played with.
3.) The intention behind your post may not have been a contradiction in your opinion but the wording looked contradictory to me. For someone who uses language tells, seems like you would have known better than to word it that way.
Hans: I don't really have a read on him yet. I know he is a newer forum player but has some experience. He said that Kosa's thing with shark is being blown out of proportion so if Kosa is scum, Hans might be.
Imma read through to see if anything interesting has happened so far.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
@kosa- How would you best describe the mood that you are in right now?
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Time for second best! Late RVS Vote: Rhand. He knows why.
Unvote because RVS is over.
---
I presume certain notes from a certain other game apply here as well?
Possible, but not necessarily the case (Kosa's mindset could be explained by townKosa expecting Shark to post something scummy rather than just claim Survivor)? I think the other two people you mentioned are more likely.
---
How is this scummy as opposed to, say, indicative of actually being a survivor? (Yes, Shark was falseclaiming, but at the time he hadn't clarified that.)
Why care about when you vote or unvote?
---
Why ask this?
Why ask this?
---
Are you scum or just not paying attention? Shark (false)claimed Survivor, yes - I fail to see how that's reason to vote him (even after he clarified that he was gambitting), especially since that claim was almost certainly intentional and scum don't usually draw attention to themselves on purpose.
Oh hey, that answers my question: You're scum.
This is not a town justification for a vote ("didn't have issues until" = scum being worried about being caught on mindset, rhetoric is strongly reminiscent of scum painting suspicion ala dC on Asenion in Redux Mirror D1)
This post did not come from town. Note the tone, note the first sentence (nonconfrontational, indicates a "standing to the side" mindset which more commonly comes from scum than not), note the lack of push.
This isn't genuine suspicion, it's looking for mud to sling.
How on earth is this supposed to make sense from a town mindset? Because I'm not seeing it.
Why are you so concerned about placing your vote? Moreover, if you're genuinely unsure, why are you sitting back instead of actively questioning?
Also, completed MTGS games please.
These questions are supposed to help you find scum how, exactly?
SPOILER ALERT: They're not.
Generic: Do you think DKing is scum?
Vote: Generic
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
I'm afraid you've lost me. Are you referring to a completed game or GIP? It's late, and I might be missing the obvious - I take notes in almost every game.
I see what you see, with Generic, but I still firmly believe Kosa to be scum.
His responses to AE in particular are calm, rational, and lengthy - that doesn't really mesh with the Town!Kosa I've seen in other games. It feels like over-explaining, defensive scum.
Hm.
AE is... probably town. He feels focused and driven, which is a super town thing to me, but it's not analogous to his town play I've seen in other games. Still think he's town, though, just a little wary.
TCM is probably town.
If Kosa flips scum (he will) EtR is my next lynch. #94 is textbook scumbuddy referencing:
'Look how I mention that I'll be watching him, but yeah, I'll just go put my vote on the easy target'.
Could be nothing, but do not like.
Don't like Hans. #122 or #123.
'9 pages already!' is mostly null, but it doesn't feel genuine. Can't really explain it properly though, just feels forced.
But the use of 'interesting' is... interesting. It indicates that he's looking for something to talk about, rather than trying to find scum.
Plus, well. #123 + Kosa being almost certain scum = a Thing.
Kosa, EtR, Hans, ??? scum team. Probably a lurker, Jonpike or Arian.
(Mostly facetious, I don't actually think I've solved the game 125 posts in. But Kosa is scum, and we should lynch him)
Why would you simply reveal that you are VT (as town) this early?
Walk me through your thought process there, and what you hope(d) to gain from it.
I mean. Why would you reveal it with one vote on you, when claiming VT is effectively the same thing as saying 'hey, scum, never shoot me'?
You weren't under threat from lynch, yet. Yes, a VT claim at L-2 wouldn't save you. But unless you think so poorly of your own play that you can't avoid being lynched when one person is pressuring you, I'm just struggling to see how you thought claiming VT early would help town.
You think I'm scum every game. You're also wrong.
Sincerely,
EtR
But I read you correctly in Gotham Underground, I think.
And Chimes mafia was more of a 'If there's a Chime remaining after we lynch AE and AG it's probably EtR' type of thing. Not really a strong scum read.
(You should update your mafia stats, I tried to see which games we'd played in together, because my memory is terrible)
But regardless, being wrong in the past doesn't mean I'm wrong this time!
What do you think about Taredas' Generic case, and Generic himself?
Bolded for emphasis. Why isn't Generic in that scum team list if you agree with Taredas?
@TCM: You didn't answer my question. Why Hawk and not another one of the flavor users?
Semantics a bit, but there's a difference.
I mean that I understand why he has the read he has on Generic, but I wasn't certain, myself.
Currently trying to parse Generic's recent play.
I don't think he's a poor player, and I struggle to see the mindset behind the random VT claim under minimal pressure. There are certain players that I can see doing it, but it takes a lack of awareness of optimal play, and it's delving into meta WiFOM.
His reasoning is very self-aware: it won't help him when at l-2.
I'm not seeing the difference between kosa's play here and in chimes.
What you are describing here is why I thought he was scum there, and he wasn't.
I'm seeing a pretty big difference in Kosa's play here and his play when pressured in other games.
The posts are longer, calmer, and feel carefully crafted - you can't tell me that you get that vibe from his posts in other games. They are more emotional and...responsive, for a lack of a better word.
There's some emotion in the posts replying to AE, but it's primarily anger - anger at being correctly identified, but for bad reasons.
---
Belay that.
Unforced, very premature vanilla claim by a Village Idiot (VI) player? Willingness to sacrifice self and defeatism?
I've seen this before (obvious example: qwints in Medieval Mafia on MafiaScum), it usually comes from town (barring a recent meta of unforced vanilla claims).
Unvote
Also, for Generic's benefit:
1) No, the simple solution to someone saying that your posts come from town is to explain how they do come from town.
2) Clearly you do not understand the nature of my certainty:
---
I think Kosa is more likely town than not after this post. Response to pressure that he considers mistaken is to clearly explain his reasoning again, and the frustration (not anger, frustration) looks genuine.
---
I need to look at something in Magical Girls.
Hawk needs to answer my questions.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
I've seen this before too, but only from new town.
I never saw experienced town do this.
I'm possibly even more confused now.
Can you clarify at all without breaching the barrier of OOG information, so to speak?
Also, dammit. I wish you hadn't done that, Re: Kosa quite yet.
I'm still about 55-60% sure he's scum, but I wanted more reactions and interactions out of people, first, before acknowledging that he isn't as sure scum as I was making him out to be.
(Quick aside) - Thoughts on the Hans and EtR Kosa comments? Both of them are making my skin crawl, which I tend to trust early in games.
Thing about that post is, frustration at being misrepresented still doesn't mean he's town - the Shark interactions that AE is pushing isn't why I think Kosa is scum. It's the self-awareness he's exhibiting, and how forced some of his early posts were.
It's possible that Rhand has the right of it, and it's a shift in tone caused by league play, but he his posts didn't have the structure and crafted tone in Chimes that they did here in defense.
I'm terrible at articulating scum reads, and 'he just feels like scum' doesn't quite cut it, heh.
Also, with regards to Generic - I don't think he's a VI. Which is why I'm having trouble making sense of things.
How would you react if I were to claim Vanilla out of nowhere early on D1 and tell you to feel free to lynch me? Serious question, part relevant, part curiosity.
Hm.
Bunch of light town reads.
Lessee.
@Fadeblue
You have a gun in your hand.
You are forced to shoot one of Misting, EtR or Hansanator, or the town loses.
Who do you shoot at this point, and why?
If it *had* to be one of those three?
hansanator only has 2 posts, both of which are bad. I have no idea what his play is like, though, so I'd be pretty hesitant to shoot based on that. Between Misting and EtR, I have Misting down as more townish, but neither is a strong read. I would probably shoot EtR, since it'd probably be more informative (though not very).
However, I wouldn't want to bet on any of those right now. If I had a choice, I would shoot hawk, because I think he's the most likely scum out of everyone who has posted so far.
Here, you can have all of my early reads:
hansanator - Null to weakly scum. Not enough content yet.
EtR - Null to weakly town.
Generic - Leaning town.
Kosakosa - Leaning town, but very tentative. From glancing at some posts in a few games recently, I've seen several comments that KK's town play is scummy. I've never actually played with KK before, so I don't know if I am compensating in my reads. In my quick notes, I have him down with more ?s than +s.
dkingsland967 - Weakly town, but mostly lots of newb tells without any newbscum tells yet (besides #64 which is weak). I prefer holding off on this type of newb, because alignment should become a lot clearer as time goes on.
Voxxicus - Leaning town.
Archmage Eternal - Null. Lots of question marks in my notes.
jonpike1 - Has not yet posted.
DYH - Only one post.
Misting - Null to weakly town. I read his early posts as more townish, but looking a little questionable since the dkingsland vote.
Rhand - Likely town. I like almost all of his posts.
7hawk77 - Leaning scum. Not enough content, but all of his posts are bad.
Arainrhod - Has not yet posted.
TheColdMonarch - Null. I like his last post, but not enough content to decide. However, he is voting hawk, which I agree with.
LnGrrrR - Null. Not enough content.
Taredas - Leaning town.
Sharkfinnigan - Weakly town.
The big problem is that this is *a lot* of (at least weak) town reads, so I'm pretty sure not all of them are right. Like I said, these are only early reads.
But while I'm still iffy on most of the players, hawk is the only one my gut feels strongly about.
I don't know enough about Kosa's meta to determine if he's acting "normal" or not. He feels townie in this game though.
Not a fan of TCM poking in just to say, "Hey guys, too much content, not gonna bother to read all this spam" and then disappearing again.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Also, we still have several folks who haven't posted at all yet, and at least one of them (Arainrhod) is a fairly active player.
Pretty much (at the time I went to sleep, not like, right now).
What frustrates me the most is that in every other game I get scolded for doing something that I generally do in all or most games I play. I joke around all the time, but once in a while, people want my head for it. I more often than not claim my role and actions out of nowhere when I judge necessary, but once in a while, people think I'm dumb scum gambitting or lying. I purposefully try to behave differently from game to game to avoid being easily metable, but once in a while people come in and say "TOWN KOSA DOESN'T BEHAVE LIKE THAT HANG HIM HE'S DIRTY SCUM YAARG" *looks at Rhand and Arianrhod*
Then I ask a (very relevant, in my PoV) question and the world explodes. Like, seriously?
On Generic: Claiming VT is null, I've done it in Innistrad (I was indeed VT), I can totally see this coming from a way-too-honest townie. While I don't like how he easily hopped from Shark's wagon to mine, he seemed honest in acknowledging his mistake and stepping back. Seems more of a paranoid townie than anything.
Just want to know who you think is scum, and why.
Back it up.
Are you scum?
We obviously do. You will have to work double time after that claim to compensate for it
scum reads.
At least one of the latter two is wrong. I don't see two scum buddies hopping on newbie together. Need to discern which one has nefarious intentions.
Unvote
Vote: 7Hawk77
This one is iron-clad, though.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
/Barn. More on this later, as Rhand backtracks on the issue pending language confusion....I'm not sure that he should have allowed himself to think that he was confused, however.
...
As others have said, we got through this every game with you, and it really isn't determinant of your alignment in any way, shape, or form. But my god, this post is so bad. Like, I'm sure you're just sitting there cackling with sadistic glee IRL at the chaos you cause, but posts like this really make me want to lynch you ._.
Okay, so here's this. Rhand then retreats from his pressuring of LnGrrrR [OoG: I keep reading LnG's name as "Lone Ranger" in my head, I have NO IDEA WHY].
I don't agree with LNG's assertion here.
Original post:
"Now I feel completely justified in voting The Cold Monarch for being against flavor."
I read this initially (as I'm guessing Rhand did) with the emphasis as such:
"Now I feel completely justified in voting The Cold Monarch for being against flavor."
This translates to a mindset of something along the lines, "I wasn't entirely comfortably with this vote before, but now that this slip happened, I am."
LNG's attempted deflection here tries to shift the emphasis to the now:
"Now I feel completely justified in voting The Cold Monarch for being against flavor."
I feel that if LNG had wanted to alert everyone that his RVS vote was no longer RVS, he could have accomplished this much more simply by just saying as much, instead of couching it in this confusion language. I don't think it's a HUGE deal, but I will be keeping a strict eye on LNG, and I'm not sure that Rhand should be second-guessing himself here.
I actually agree with Kosa on this subject. Just because Shark does this every game does not mean that Shark shouldn't be called on it. It'll take more than just this usual BS for me to want to lynch Shark on D1 in [games], but we do still need to be clear with regards to where Shark is coming from.
While on the Kosa subject, I will note here that I do not believe AE and Kosa to be scum together, if in fact either of them is scum. This AE reminds me a lot of OtR (where he was town), and as I'll note to Voxx later, this Kosa reminds me of Chimes (again, town).
This is a very scummy post. What's your actual opinion? Kosa "may" have done a lot of things. I do agree that AE looks better than Kosa right now, but this reads like an attempt at smearing.
Coaching in plain sight?
"Without making this a tutorial" reads poorly to me. It's like Generic is self-aware that he's obviously coaching, but at least makes a half-hearted attempt at staving off any incoming accusations.
/barn on both accounts.
Did you read Chimes? I know that you're anti-items, so I'm guessing that you just avoided it completely (which I wouldn't blame you for, incidentally).
In Chimes, I pressured Kosa on D1 for the exact same reasoning that you're doing now, and I ended up being wrong. Kosa's primary reply was that he was trying to take the game more seriously because league game / he wanted solid feedback, which I can appreciate.
I wouldn't say that this precludes Kosa from possibly being scum, but I wouldn't use it as a reason in and of itself. It's null if anything IMO.
Yup, you got me. /s
Jumping on a newer player based on a mediocre argument made by someone else? Seems contrived.
It's obviously about TCM. Feels like scum trying to deflect.
I like when people can admit mistakes. I think that this post makes generic look towny. Catching his own mistake before someone else to make sure he votes for the correct person
I've never played with dkingsland and wanted to know his experience level. It is important to not confuse bad with scum and if he is inexeperienced, I want to know.
RVS was still going on and the vote was in all caps. A serious vote has more weight and tells more about players intentions than a "random" vote.
I feel like these are obvious questions and answers. Why are you asking obvious questions? These past two just feels like forced scumhunting that doesn't get anything accomplished.
Well that was a mistake. This is a null tell. Willingly giving out that information because a few people think you are scum doesn't help the town.
Generic is not a new town, he has experience. However I that he is town. He basically plays by his own rules and does what he wants. I won't be referencing any ongoing games but I do have experience playing.
Unvote
Vote Teradas
Outdated Mafia Stats
Do you also feel the rest of Taredas' posts (i.e. the parts that aren't directed at you) are "forced scumhunting?"
I'm leaning scum on all of them but want to pressure/look in to Taredas more.
Outdated Mafia Stats
I replaced into Chimes on D2, and did reasonably well-ish. I guess I need to go back and re-read Kosa's D1, as I skimmed his posts because I was positive Kosa was town after the tracker claim.
Hm.
This makes me want to lynch you, but most of the rest of your post reads as fairly genuine.
Decisions.
Don't like the Taredas vote.
But don't think it necessarily makes Hawk scum.
Hey, Hawk -
What do you think about Kosa, Hans and EtR?
That was during my survivor ordeal. Obviously as survivor I wouldn't care what happens so long as I didn't die. It's the little Edge I'd have if I were the survivor.
Still catching up. Probably will pressure a newer player until I see a town read from them to start eliminated possibilities.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
The concept here is solid, and is pretty close to how I play... but stating that you're just going to pressure someone sort of completely negates the pressure.
Trying to decide if it's just poor town play, or if he's trying to absolve himself of accountability with his vote.
Hans: I don't really have a read on him yet. I know he is a newer forum player but has some experience. He said that Kosa's thing with shark is being blown out of proportion so if Kosa is scum, Hans might be.
ETR: His reactions seem genuine. Leaning town.
Outdated Mafia Stats
To be honest, I feel like his questions were fine, because I wanted to ask you the same things.
This feels like a revisionist explanation, because at the point you asked this, dkingsland's posts gave no indication whether he was a bad player or not. So you're saying that you preemptively wanted to know his experience level, before having seen his play?
Now that you know he is inexperienced, what is your read on him?
So you're saying that you could NOT tell whether that vote was RVS or serious? When he quoted that specific post?
And why did you wait until #52 to ask that, when you commented on it in your flavor post in #34? ("AE sees an oppening on the trapped Kosa and does a flying dragon kick to his chest")
Explain exactly what felt genuine about EtR's posts.
Oh, my apologies then. I'll be honest: I stopped reading Chimes other than an occasional check-in every few weeks because I was pretty salty about the modkill.
Yeah, which is why I only noted it down in my catch-up post as opposed to actually pursuing it. We've done this song and dance enough that I sort of know what to do expect; I just felt obligated to point out that that particular example was really obvscum-esque. I'm actually surprised that nobody jumped on you for it. Not sure what to think of regarding that -- kind of makes me suspicious of an experienced scum-team. I recognize the inherent danger in that (new players always think that experienced players are scum, etc), but that's where my thought process is at.
What are your thoughts on post #64, in that light?
Post in question:
I didn't really mind this post. Kingsland's #89 is much more interesting, I feel. Like, assuming that Kingsland is as he says he is (new player, not a gimmick, etc), #64 lines up perfectly with what I'd expect from him, regardless of alignment.
I also can't remember him pushing the issue at all after that point. It was more of a "fire and see where it goes" kind of post -- which could be construed as scummy...if Kingsland wasn't already on the wagon (as of #32). That's as likely to denote tender newbflesh unsure of his reads as it is of scum testing the waters. I can't see it as being more than a null post in either direction.
Kosa's questioning of Shark does not scream to me, but #31 does.
Taredas seems +town to me.
Generic's VT claim is strange... obviously doesn't help us, but doesn't seem like something a scum would gain from. Neutral role tell, maybe?
Anyway, after re-reading, Vote TCM
Lack of self-awareness, a certain sense of almost relaxation from his posts.
Would like more words from him though.
Thoughts on Hawk and Misting?
Alright, Kosa seems town to me.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Who are your other teammates?
Interesting that you thought that his questions towards me were valid. I still don't really see it.
dkingsland has came off mildly scummy early in the game but I am willing to give him a noob card pass especially with his recent posts. I know I personally have a difficult time discerning noob scum from noob town considering the scummy/paranoid nature of newer players. I like his vote on TCM though.
I could not tell if AE's vote on Kosa was RVS or serious. The caps lock and early vote is what through me off.
As far as waiting, the day took off rather quickly and I enjoy RVS/using flavor. The time difference between post 34 and 52 couldn't have been more than 30 minutes.
@dking
Is post 38 the only reason you think TCM is scum?
@Hans
What do you think of Arian?
Outdated Mafia Stats
Right now, absolutely nothing. If he has posted, none of his posts have left an impact on me.
Honestly, I can only name about 5 of the 18(?) people who I know are playing this game without looking at the roster, and Arian is not one of them.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I'm suspicious of Misting from the way he questioned my earlier posts in a less-than-subtle manner, yet waited to vote until EtR got the ball rolling and then immediately jumped on the wagon.
Hawk I have no read on, but I really dislike both of TCM's posts so far and I don't know why he would go after Hawk early if he were bussing.
If I knew that, wouldn't this game be over pretty quickly?
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
In both games we've played together you were scum and I was town. So when you say "everything else seems normal for kosa", you're saying that, besides my "contradiction" about shark, I'm playing as I generally do.
So:
1) If that's the case, why do you have me as leaning scum instead of town, as per your words, this is my normal game?
2) If my "contradiction" about shark was enough to make you have me as leaning scum, then why have you never questioned me about it?
3) Why haven't you acknowledged the posts where I explain that wasn't a contradiction?
1.) I haven't seen you make a contradiction like that in previous games. You generally have a hard time getting other people to see what you see.
2.) Others have pressured you about it, I'm familiar with you as a player and wanted to look in to players that I have never played with.
3.) The intention behind your post may not have been a contradiction in your opinion but the wording looked contradictory to me. For someone who uses language tells, seems like you would have known better than to word it that way.
I already felt that Hans was buddying kosa.
Outdated Mafia Stats