I'm not pinning suspicion of Void on emoticons being a scumtell. I'm saying that Void should have known that emoticons could be scummy from Starcraft.
I agree that voting based on smileys is fairly weak. But I feel like MDenham's second post of the game is far more telling of his alignment (Fairly self-conscious).
Void is scummy because on his first few posts, he posts questions to Wessel and I, but when we provide answers he ignores them and goes after swishh. He then votes swishh for more of newbiness/obstinacy than because he thinks he's actually scum.
There's one thing that I don't like, though. You only just finished judging my reaction, from that post waaaay back to now?
Considering that tomorrow is my first day off since Sunday, and the amount of other forum-related things I have to do, and that Mafia is not at the top of my list of things to do (work, mod duties, the DCC, grocery shopping, and operating the barbecue - because, after all, fire is what separates man from the animals - all land higher on the list, and that's just covering the last few days), the delay should not be a surprise.
Combine that with it having only been five days since I voted, and for four of them there was no reaction that I noticed, since your posting basically amounted to "ignore my vote" until #121. While I didn't like that, I didn't read it as scummy, and #121 finally gave an actual reaction to analyze.
With regards to your proposed scumteam: I don't know that I like Void in there, especially since he seems to be highly argumentative towards two of the people on Necropsy's wagon who, strictly from vote timing, would be in spots that may have scum (the argument being that scum would avoid starting a wagon, being the L-2 vote, or hammering on the first couple of Days). If Void is scum and Necropsy is town, though, that's a good way to go for towncred by defending Necropsy - and that would seem to point at Generic as the third scum in that situation in place of Necropsy ("pointedly ignoring each other" between Void and Generic).
I get the feeling I'm missing something, but that's par for the course on Day 1.
(With regards to self-conscious posting, that's a "this is me" tell. So is frequently hedging my bets unless I'm dead certain about something; in the course of writing this post I edited out the phrases "I think" and "seems like" about twenty times, just because those are normal parts of how I talk and write.)
Something about the language in Wessel's post is throwing me off and I can't figure out what it is... I'm gonna have to read back through his other posts and compare them.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Aha I've figured it out. It's the way he's using words that imply strong opinions ("Quite the opposite," "absolute nonsense," "absolutely nothing," "is not a valid reason," "strongly disagree,") but he's hedging his bets with waffly language at other points in the post ("Though I might accept a reasoning," "I could possibly see the point," "Though I think it's unlikely," "make me suspicious," "I don't think he directly answered," ect.).
That seems really odd to me. It's like Wessel is trying to say "Look at how confident I am" but is also trying to avoid expressing too many solid opinions.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
But yeah, would prefer the lynch go Necropsy D1, then any combination of Teia or Void D2/D3.
Void also says I'm scummy without actually providing reasoning why. He entirely focuses on Wessel's buddying on me.
Why are you chaining lynches? Do you really believe that your game has improved that much that you KNOW everything about a single Mafia game when we are 170 posts into the game?
Also, Prophy, I know what I need to respond too. Have you ever not had the time to respond properly? Becasue the swishh interactions yesterday took up a majority of time.
The swishh interactions took up more time because of how dense swishh was/is being. I had planned on responding to you and Wessel yesterday (I even acknowledged to Wessel that I saw his response and would respond). Saying that I ignored them is a baseless accusation.
And you're scummy for your vote on MDenham. I covered this earlier in the thread when I asked Wessel why he thought your vote on MDenham was good. Since then MDenham explained the "Martha vote", but that would still read as RVS since "Martha" is a funny name that was given to MDenham for reasons. Let's not forget your comment with the vote "those smiley's". That's all you said. You didn't state why you only said "thsoe smiley's" (paraphrased of course). So, yes, your vote on MDenham was horrid. It took Wessel explaining why he saw your vote as good to make me understand what was being done in your post. As for nervousness, there is none. It's all following a pressumed RVS at the time. And since MDenham admitted that "Martha" is a running joke in Flamnigo's Clan thread I just don't see MDenham responding the way he did if he thought RVS was over. You're talking about me reaching, but this is the biggest reach in the game thus far and you created the entire situation.
Ftr, 85% sure swishh is scum this game. Once GIP ends I will help solidfy this read to everyone in the game.
I'm good with lynching one of Prophy or swishh toDay. Wessel is a third option, but I am more unsure of him then the others.
Also I agree with Void on swishh. But I'm going to wait till Necropsy finally posts before expanding on this.
Void's argument seems to hinge on the impossibility of unvoting someone at L-2. We're all waiting for Necropsy to claim, but why are you waiting for this before you elaborate on agreeing with Void?
And the reason I'm waiting is because it has directly to do with Necropsy.
We eagerly await (no sarcasm here) your expanding on this. (Partly because I want to see how it meshes with my thinking on swishh at this point, but also because more content from everybody is always welcome as it makes my ability to determine reads easier.)
And put me on the list of people waiting for Necropsy to hurry up and claim already. I'm leaning toward the delay being an attempt to craft a viable falseclaim, but it may just be intra-clan politics holding things up (which is ridiculous anyway and shouldn't hold up a game that's down to six days from deadline - come on, guys, make up your mind).
I think MDenham is scum too. And I think Proph is wrong about Void. After Necropsy claims and we decide whether to lynch I'll build a case against MDenham.
If you think I'm scum, why are you so willing to cave into my requests?
Also please explain why my push for Necropsy to claim and Void's resistance to this isn't indicative of Void's being scum if Necropsy were to flip scum.
The fact he used these emoticons signifies nervousness because of what borders Poe's Law. It's not really similar, but the feeling is the same: to show that you're just kidding. I felt he overdid it which showed nervousness. That on itself is a good reason to pressure that person, so when Proph did that, I thought it was a good move. Note that it doesn't really signify alignment (though nervousness is seen most among scum or newb town). As I've explained before, it was a good vote because it got the game going, it pressured MDenham, and it showed that Proph was actively involved in the game (=town points to Proph).
After everything that was discussed about the post from Prophy, do you still believe that MDenham was showing nervousness? (I have more questions for this, but I want this one answered first before I ask more)
Scum. His initial posts were weak and his explanations were inadequate.
And why does this make Necorpsy scum? Either you chose not to say it because of possible waffling or you didn't think about Necorpsy possibily being Town with those repsonses. Yes, the responses were not that good, but we have seen a lot worse on this site from players that were Town, experienced or inexperienced doesn't matter. Both will screw up, just one more than the other.
Because he's town. He's asking the right questions, is actively involved (or rather, was... Proph, I thought you were gone for just the weekend?), and he shows a healthy dose of mistrust towards me. All of that indicates to me he's town. He's making the right observations, and is scumhunting. Post #66 is perhaps the best post showing Proph's townMeta. Furthermore, scumProph would try to insinuate things to put suspicion on them, like he did in Unseen University Mafia against me. And he'd also try to respond to everything happening in the game to prevent any suspicion to be brought against him, instead of responding to the correct things, like he is doing here.
No sir, I do not mind to explain why I am 'taking this route'. Necropsy has not posted anything of note that is either deserving of scrutiny or makes me feel more positively of him. His whole explaining for his behaviour feels inadequate and I hope he picks his posting up soon so I can improve my read on him. As for asking those people what they think of Necropsy, I spur them on to take a stance on him. Logic behind that will come later.
Wessel contradicting himself? This is a rare occasion. Please notice the bold in the response. Looking above, Wessel orignally called Necorpsy's post inadequate (bolded above this response), but later saus they only FEEL inadquate.
Wessel, please explain why you went from "were" to "feels".
Prophy
I asked why you didn't go along with the context of the conversation. From that you decided to validate your reasoning for asking the question. This is not a Townie repsonse.
You did, however, answer the question in your second post which also answered the rest of the questions.
Wessel contradicting himself? This is a rare occasion. Please notice the bold in the response. Looking above, Wessel orignally called Necorpsy's post inadequate (bolded above this response), but later saus they only FEEL inadquate.
Wessel, please explain why you went from "were" to "feels".
God are you serious?
Are you actually serious?
Fine.
Forget everything else, this is the most scummy thing anyone has said the whole game. You're actually attacking me, wilfully misrepresenting that in the first quote I said 'were inadequate' and then 'feel inadequate', claiming I'm contradicting myself? Are you even for real?
Unvote, vote Void.
I take back my words on swishh. Looking at Void here, swishh is probably just playing badly.
What? "Were" and "feels" have two different meanings..
I think MDenham is scum too. And I think Proph is wrong about Void. After Necropsy claims and we decide whether to lynch I'll build a case against MDenham.
What? This is a horrible post. If you have a case, lay it out now. Not "I'll wait until two days before deadline" (which is what it seems like it's going to be for when Necropsy posts next).
with the force of a thousand suns. Still not voting for you because the reactions with me not voting you are super effective.
No Void, I'm not. Also, what was your reason again for having Proph as one of your main suspects? Because you said it isn't a town mindset to answer something with a question about something else? Then tell me how that is a scum mindset.
Quote the post please. You're emotions are making this hard to read.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Why it wasn't relevant. Void says he doesn't accept my thought that I think Proph showed a town mindset by gauging if I was genuinely agreeing or was perhaps scum buddying him. But Void says he doesn't buy it because 'scum can genuinely agree'. Now unless he thinks I'm scum with MDenham (I mistakenly said Necropsy in an earlier post), I can't genuinely agree with his vote cause I would know he'd be town. That's the point I'm making.
I'm not going to try speaking for Void or anything, but come on, you're just playing up semantics here. Town and scum can each vote the same person for the exact same reasons. Scum just have a different underlying motive than town do. Like, to take an example from a previous game of mine, there was a townie who was playing very badly and looked to nearly everyone like scum. I genuinely agreed with the townies' assessment that his behaviour was scummy and vote-worthy... because he was, for both sides. Town voted him because they thought he was scum. I voted him because he was an easy mislynch target. Both sides' conclusions came from the same reasoning: he was acting super scummy.
Please tell me why or how or in what constellation scum would gauge another player for their honesty.
If scum want to appear to be town, then the best course of action is to do townie things. If gauging honesty in others is townie, then scum will do that.
Calling someone stupid is far more of an attack than pointing out contradiction or how rare it is.
Really, you're letting yourself get out of control here. I'd already gauged defensiveness from you with my offhand RVS comment earlier, but this is way more pronounced. It looks like scum flailing, and I'm settled on my scum read of you now. You're overly defensive and moving off your buddy Necropsy and basically OMGUSing Void.
Yea cause he was (at the point I asked you that) the person at L-2, and since you had him as 'rubbing the wrong way' along with your apparently no. 1 suspect Polski who you subsequently voted for, I assumed you were genuinely convinced Necropsy was scum. But you have now voted me, instead of wanting to apparently lynch Necropsy. I have trouble believing in your sincerity, Caex.
Are you just lashing out at everyone who suspects you or something? Read what you wrote again and tell me why me voting for Necropsy makes any sense. First of all, "rubbing me the wrong way" doesn't automatically equal scum, especially since I'd not read any of his posts in-depth.
And even if I did have a cemented scum read, why on earth would I put him at L-1 before he claimed? There's actual information to be gained from voting you. Nothing is gained putting someone at L-1.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
By the way Void, what's emotion got to do with it? You're thinking I'm scum, right? So if you now argue I'm letting myself be led by emotion, you think I'm town now?
No, I don't believe you are Town. Now you're trying to use my posts to assume what I mean.
You've completely overreacted to a simple contradiction you made. Rather than defend against with calm casual posting you instead show rage/frustration that I called you out on something simple.
So, please, tell me, Wessel, why should I believe you to be Town?
I don't deny that, but it still doesn't give an explanation for Void's disagreement with my view (whether it's correct or not) that Proph's probing question shows a town mindset.
I'm interested in my disagreement with your view, not Void's.
A question. If according to you scum and town do precisely the same things because they both want to appear town, how is one to distinguish between the two?
You're implicitly assuming that scum facades are infallible. They're not. Scum have to affect the ways townies naturally play. At some point (early on for bad scum, and rarely with good scum), there will be inconsistencies, and one will have to infer from those inconsistencies whether the player is simply town making errors, or scum pretending to be town. An extremely scummy-looking player can turn out to be a townie playing very poorly. An extremely townie-looking player can turn out to be scum playing very well. At best, you're making a big deal over a null tell. At worst, you're just trying to buddy up to Proph.
Two things; Firstly, I beg to differ that calling someone stupid (or bad, or any other synonym) is more scummy than wilfully trying to paint someone as scum, especially because the point Void attacked me on is so obviously forced that it isn't even funny.
Let's leave those goalposts where I put them. I said calling someone stupid is more of an attack than pointing out inconsistencies, not that it's more scummy. Don't put words into my mouth here. By calling him stupid, you're attacking him as a person. By saying that someone is acting inconsistent and pointing out the rarity of such, one is going after that person's actions. Attacking someone's actions and arguments is one thing. Attacking someone as a person is much worse.
Don't you see the scumminess behind his play?
Responding to a case on you with an attempt to paint Void as scum crosses the line from explaining your behaviour to shift the subject of scumminess onto him rather than you. It's deflection, plain and simple. This question is what seals it.
Wessel
The only scum slip that occurred was you changin your view swishh because of play. There is no reason why my play should have affected your read on swishh and Necorpsy. Your read on them had nothing to do with my posts, but how swishh went about the claim.
Now your changing speeds and telling others to "forget about swishh" when, in fact, we shouldn't. It's strange that becasue of one post, from me, swishh is no longer scum to you.
I have a very strong feeling that Wessel and swishh are scum buddies after this turn about from Wessel.
Why? He says he's going to say in the future. Looking forward to it (note: anytime soon?)... Will look into more once I've more time.
I really want to hear Necropsy's claim first. You'll get your explanation though, don't worry.
I'd also like to say that Necropsy not showing up is definitely not a sign in his favor. Is Necropsy a newbie? I looked through his posting history and he's got no mafia games on this site under his belt. Noob scum shaken by the immediate pressure he received is a pretty reasonable explanation for his lack of any posting/claiming/content.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I'd also like to say that Necropsy not showing up is definitely not a sign in his favor. Is Necropsy a newbie? I looked through his posting history and he's got no mafia games on this site under his belt. Noob scum shaken by the immediate pressure he received is a pretty reasonable explanation for his lack of any posting/claiming/content.
Explain why it's noob scum shaken by pressure and not noob town?
Because why should pressure shake noob town when they know they're innocent. I'd expect lashing out, exasperation, maybe anger from new town that they were being falsely accused. Not a vanishing act.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
But it's Void's disagreement that I take issue with.
Sure, but don't try to involve it with my disagreement.
You do your best not to make any judgment in the form of indication of alignment on Void's attack against me. I'd like you to do so.
I kept the discussion off Void because I don't like getting sidetracked. At any rate, I think Void is town. He's very patient in dealing with your defensive breakdown (for instance, he could've chosen to attack you in a moment of weakness to rile you up further, but instead patiently asked for clarification), and he builds upon and expands his cases rather than harping on early-game posting excessively.
This is an exaggeration, Teia, plain and simple. I was talking about how scummy Void was, and concluded with this because the scumminess of Void's attack on me should make my innocence clear. It's what it's all about.
It's all about context. The exact same thing said in two different contexts can go from extremely townie to extremely scummy. In this case, it's not really claiming scumminess on Void's part per se that raised a red flag, it's the fact that you did it in response to a case on you. If you want to case Void, go ahead, but responding to a case by pointing a finger at someone else is deflection. If you were to say "I did it because Void was acting suspicious," then that'd be totally fine, but you didn't leave it there. You tried to shift the subject to his scumminess by asking "Don't you see the scumminess behind his play?" And that's not going to fly with me.
-Teia seems not to want to respond to some matters, especially Proph's case here. She completely ignores it. I'd like Teia to respond to that.
I didn't respond to it because it's completely uninformed and to do so would have simply threatened to derail the thread. I have only two completed games prior to this one, Mod Mafia 5 and Mod Mafia 6. In MM5, I was scum, and basically rode the noob card and horribly playing town to victory. In MM6, I was the doc, got run up to claim range nearly instantly, and then had the game soured for me by a personal dispute with another player. By the time I got enough interest back in MM6 for serious analysis, I'd been only barely playing for so long that it was extremely difficult to get caught up. So for Proph to claim that my town game "usually" goes a certain way is flatly absurd, and trying to base an argument about my meta on "a couple of [my] posts" doesn't even make sense given that I had 428 posts in that game.
I still want his claim, though, because regardless of problems with availability (as he's stated in quite a few of his posts to date), inactivity shouldn't get him out of having to claim.
Hey guys, I know I've kept you waiting, I'm just V/LA right now and when I've been seen viewing the thread I have been inebriated and unable to post. Tonight pst I'll read over everything and post in detail
In light of the short time frame, I'd like everyone to answer the following questions:
1) Do you feel comfortable lynching Necropsy even if he doesn't claim tonight?
2) If not, why not? If so, do you feel this qualifies as a policy lynch or as a well-founded lynch for actual reasons?
My answers at this point are "yes" and "yes, it's a policy lynch for stalling" (because seriously, he doesn't need to be drinking all the time and that is the worst excuse for not claiming I have ever seen).
I'm not chaining lynches. I'm simply stating what my reads are and how I want them lynched and in what order. It's just another way of showing my reads.
Also, thanks for verifying that you're voting swishh for being bad as opposed to being scum.
You're really stretching to call me scum, Void. I voted MDenham because I thought those smileys indicated nervousness (you've been caught due to smiley usage in RVS as well; how come you don't know that smiley usage in RVS indicates defensive nervousness?)
On your #180, I'm not seeing a question there.
After reading his recent posts, I think Void is terrible town. Void tends to be less aggressive and more lurky as scum (see Survival Horror).
@Teia: Why do Wessel's ad hom attacks make Wessel more likely to be scum?
In any rate, I feel like we should go ahead with the Necropsy lynch toDay. I feel like he's disappearing until someone else gets pressured and people forget about him (see: Wessel).
1. If he lurks for the next four or five days then of course I'm going to lynch him. But that's enough time for the mod to prod/replace him and for his replacement to claim, so no. I'd be willing to wait, giving that we have five days until deadline.
2. I feel like it's time to policy lynch a claim dodger.
I want him to claim, but if he doesn't claim and we don't get a replacement before the deadline, then I'll be behind his lynch. As it stands, there's no point in rushing a lynch when we can possibly gain information by waiting a bit. Just be patient. Though I will agree, his excuse is terrible. The time he took to pop in and post about his inability to post would have been enough time to claim.
Quote from Wessel »
-Polski has been the butt of a few attacks in such a way that I am hesitant to call him scum, because most of those attacks came from people I have as scum.
Are you implying that you would call me scum if I hadn't been attacked? If so, why?
In light of the short time frame, I'd like everyone to answer the following questions:
1) Do you feel comfortable lynching Necropsy even if he doesn't claim tonight?
2) If not, why not? If so, do you feel this qualifies as a policy lynch or as a well-founded lynch for actual reasons?
Yes. His conduct was painfully scummy even before his inactivity got to the point where I'm fine policy lynching him.
@Teia: Why do Wessel's ad hom attacks make Wessel more likely to be scum?
It shows that there's some level of cognitive dissonance at work, since he cried foul at all the perceived attacks on him, yet was more than willing to attack others in the same way he seemed to feel they were attacking him. He was defensive and lashing out at others in a way that showed he'd lost sight of the situation. It was an extension of the defensiveness I'd already established he had, and it makes him look more like cornered scum than flailing town.
(because seriously, he doesn't need to be drinking all the time and that is the worst excuse for not claiming I have ever seen).
Is it really surprising that I'm out and about on Friday and Saturday? That aside,I doubt my claiming will make any waves, considering I'm just a vanilla townie and don't hold a power role (except the power to vote, if that counts).
I expected that answer. But what I'm trying to establish is was he actually V/La?
It's dodgy now, why would anyone hide from a VT claim? Doesn't save him from a potential lunch as people know they can afford to lose a VT on the gamble.
Do you need irl dated photos of me at the workshop getting on the blaze?
No but seriously, mods feel free to look at the IPs I've accessed the forums on recently; you'll find they don't match my home one. That I'm being questioned about a weekend out, I find completely ridiculous
I would respectfully like to point out that if you have been drunk for all of the last 48 hours, you should either be dead of alcohol poisoning by now, or may in fact be Keith Richards' new host body.
That said, I'm pretty sure everyone in this game is capable of deciphering drunk posts (with the possible exception of Prophylaxis, who is well known to be a Small Child), and so our being annoyed over the whole "you couldn't take 30 seconds to ramble off your role in a short post", especially when you'd made other posts apologizing for not posting (which undoubtedly took longer to write), should be somewhat expected.
I mean, christ, it's not like claiming when you get your first opportunity to post, drunk or not, is rocket surgery.
Drunk for 48 hours? Not this time around. High about that long though, and crossfaded each night. Is the concept of not being home for a weekend unfathomable? Also, I didn't give a V/LA warning because I wasn't planning on going out. My girlfriend shot up north for the weekend and I looked for something to do and a weekend happened. Anyway, it's less that I was worried about post comprehension and more about not wanting to dumbtell or make myself look any more unnessecarily scummy. Something about not wanting to dig bigger holes and all that. Anyway, since my girl is back, I'm lucky getting to write a post of this length (she's literally punching me in the arm in bed) so I will analyse wessel, void etc in depth tomorrow. I will note in passing that wessel got rather personal with insults and started getting overly emotional. Haven't seen any more of proph, but in lieu of reviewing the situation, for now I will unvote
(because seriously, he doesn't need to be drinking all the time and that is the worst excuse for not claiming I have ever seen).
Is it really surprising that I'm out and about on Friday and Saturday? That aside,I doubt my claiming will make any waves, considering I'm just a vanilla townie and don't hold a power role (except the power to vote, if that counts).
Wessel, why do you continue to beat this dead horse? Do I need to spell it out? My life does not revolve around posting- I might flick over the thread on my phone while on the couch having a beer at a mate's place, but I'd rather abstain from posting until I'm in a sound state of mind in the comfort of my own home. It's really pretty simple, and it seems to me you are now grasping at straws for some reason... I'll take a better look at it when I'm not on my smoko at work
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Curse PremiumI agree that voting based on smileys is fairly weak. But I feel like MDenham's second post of the game is far more telling of his alignment (Fairly self-conscious).
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Curse PremiumVoid also says I'm scummy without actually providing reasoning why. He entirely focuses on Wessel's buddying on me.
Combine that with it having only been five days since I voted, and for four of them there was no reaction that I noticed, since your posting basically amounted to "ignore my vote" until #121. While I didn't like that, I didn't read it as scummy, and #121 finally gave an actual reaction to analyze.
With regards to your proposed scumteam: I don't know that I like Void in there, especially since he seems to be highly argumentative towards two of the people on Necropsy's wagon who, strictly from vote timing, would be in spots that may have scum (the argument being that scum would avoid starting a wagon, being the L-2 vote, or hammering on the first couple of Days). If Void is scum and Necropsy is town, though, that's a good way to go for towncred by defending Necropsy - and that would seem to point at Generic as the third scum in that situation in place of Necropsy ("pointedly ignoring each other" between Void and Generic).
I get the feeling I'm missing something, but that's par for the course on Day 1.
(With regards to self-conscious posting, that's a "this is me" tell. So is frequently hedging my bets unless I'm dead certain about something; in the course of writing this post I edited out the phrases "I think" and "seems like" about twenty times, just because those are normal parts of how I talk and write.)
(Probably NSFW) So you may have heard I'm trying to write a TV series...
Like I said, I thought I was missing something; looks like Caex's inability to pay attention is contagious or something.
(Probably NSFW) So you may have heard I'm trying to write a TV series...
{Magic: The RPG}
That seems really odd to me. It's like Wessel is trying to say "Look at how confident I am" but is also trying to avoid expressing too many solid opinions.
Let's see what shakes loose.
Vote Wessel
{Magic: The RPG}
Why are you chaining lynches? Do you really believe that your game has improved that much that you KNOW everything about a single Mafia game when we are 170 posts into the game?
Also, Prophy, I know what I need to respond too. Have you ever not had the time to respond properly? Becasue the swishh interactions yesterday took up a majority of time.
The swishh interactions took up more time because of how dense swishh was/is being. I had planned on responding to you and Wessel yesterday (I even acknowledged to Wessel that I saw his response and would respond). Saying that I ignored them is a baseless accusation.
And you're scummy for your vote on MDenham. I covered this earlier in the thread when I asked Wessel why he thought your vote on MDenham was good. Since then MDenham explained the "Martha vote", but that would still read as RVS since "Martha" is a funny name that was given to MDenham for reasons. Let's not forget your comment with the vote "those smiley's". That's all you said. You didn't state why you only said "thsoe smiley's" (paraphrased of course). So, yes, your vote on MDenham was horrid. It took Wessel explaining why he saw your vote as good to make me understand what was being done in your post. As for nervousness, there is none. It's all following a pressumed RVS at the time. And since MDenham admitted that "Martha" is a running joke in Flamnigo's Clan thread I just don't see MDenham responding the way he did if he thought RVS was over. You're talking about me reaching, but this is the biggest reach in the game thus far and you created the entire situation.
Ftr, 85% sure swishh is scum this game. Once GIP ends I will help solidfy this read to everyone in the game.
I'm good with lynching one of Prophy or swishh toDay. Wessel is a third option, but I am more unsure of him then the others.
Void's argument seems to hinge on the impossibility of unvoting someone at L-2. We're all waiting for Necropsy to claim, but why are you waiting for this before you elaborate on agreeing with Void?
We eagerly await (no sarcasm here) your expanding on this. (Partly because I want to see how it meshes with my thinking on swishh at this point, but also because more content from everybody is always welcome as it makes my ability to determine reads easier.)
And put me on the list of people waiting for Necropsy to hurry up and claim already. I'm leaning toward the delay being an attempt to craft a viable falseclaim, but it may just be intra-clan politics holding things up (which is ridiculous anyway and shouldn't hold up a game that's down to six days from deadline - come on, guys, make up your mind).
(Probably NSFW) So you may have heard I'm trying to write a TV series...
Also please explain why my push for Necropsy to claim and Void's resistance to this isn't indicative of Void's being scum if Necropsy were to flip scum.
After everything that was discussed about the post from Prophy, do you still believe that MDenham was showing nervousness? (I have more questions for this, but I want this one answered first before I ask more)
And why does this make Necorpsy scum? Either you chose not to say it because of possible waffling or you didn't think about Necorpsy possibily being Town with those repsonses. Yes, the responses were not that good, but we have seen a lot worse on this site from players that were Town, experienced or inexperienced doesn't matter. Both will screw up, just one more than the other.
You're basing Prophy's new meta on one game?
Wessel contradicting himself? This is a rare occasion. Please notice the bold in the response. Looking above, Wessel orignally called Necorpsy's post inadequate (bolded above this response), but later saus they only FEEL inadquate.
Wessel, please explain why you went from "were" to "feels".
Prophy
I asked why you didn't go along with the context of the conversation. From that you decided to validate your reasoning for asking the question. This is not a Townie repsonse.
You did, however, answer the question in your second post which also answered the rest of the questions.
I didn't.
Also, don't take my thunder! Post #117 is the start of my case on swishh.
What? "Were" and "feels" have two different meanings..
"Were" gives the impression that you are certain.
"Feels" gives the impression that you are not certain.
(Probably NSFW) So you may have heard I'm trying to write a TV series...
Quote the post please. You're emotions are making this hard to read.
I'd prefer not to explain my reasoning at the moment.
Don't care for what I've seen from him, but I've really only skimmed his posts. I'll go over them with a critical eye at some point I'm sure.
{Magic: The RPG}
I'm not going to try speaking for Void or anything, but come on, you're just playing up semantics here. Town and scum can each vote the same person for the exact same reasons. Scum just have a different underlying motive than town do. Like, to take an example from a previous game of mine, there was a townie who was playing very badly and looked to nearly everyone like scum. I genuinely agreed with the townies' assessment that his behaviour was scummy and vote-worthy... because he was, for both sides. Town voted him because they thought he was scum. I voted him because he was an easy mislynch target. Both sides' conclusions came from the same reasoning: he was acting super scummy.
If scum want to appear to be town, then the best course of action is to do townie things. If gauging honesty in others is townie, then scum will do that.
Calling someone stupid is far more of an attack than pointing out contradiction or how rare it is.
Really, you're letting yourself get out of control here. I'd already gauged defensiveness from you with my offhand RVS comment earlier, but this is way more pronounced. It looks like scum flailing, and I'm settled on my scum read of you now. You're overly defensive and moving off your buddy Necropsy and basically OMGUSing Void.
Are you just lashing out at everyone who suspects you or something? Read what you wrote again and tell me why me voting for Necropsy makes any sense. First of all, "rubbing me the wrong way" doesn't automatically equal scum, especially since I'd not read any of his posts in-depth.
And even if I did have a cemented scum read, why on earth would I put him at L-1 before he claimed? There's actual information to be gained from voting you. Nothing is gained putting someone at L-1.
{Magic: The RPG}
No, I don't believe you are Town. Now you're trying to use my posts to assume what I mean.
You've completely overreacted to a simple contradiction you made. Rather than defend against with calm casual posting you instead show rage/frustration that I called you out on something simple.
So, please, tell me, Wessel, why should I believe you to be Town?
(Probably NSFW) So you may have heard I'm trying to write a TV series...
I'm interested in my disagreement with your view, not Void's.
You're implicitly assuming that scum facades are infallible. They're not. Scum have to affect the ways townies naturally play. At some point (early on for bad scum, and rarely with good scum), there will be inconsistencies, and one will have to infer from those inconsistencies whether the player is simply town making errors, or scum pretending to be town. An extremely scummy-looking player can turn out to be a townie playing very poorly. An extremely townie-looking player can turn out to be scum playing very well. At best, you're making a big deal over a null tell. At worst, you're just trying to buddy up to Proph.
Let's leave those goalposts where I put them. I said calling someone stupid is more of an attack than pointing out inconsistencies, not that it's more scummy. Don't put words into my mouth here. By calling him stupid, you're attacking him as a person. By saying that someone is acting inconsistent and pointing out the rarity of such, one is going after that person's actions. Attacking someone's actions and arguments is one thing. Attacking someone as a person is much worse.
Responding to a case on you with an attempt to paint Void as scum crosses the line from explaining your behaviour to shift the subject of scumminess onto him rather than you. It's deflection, plain and simple. This question is what seals it.
The only scum slip that occurred was you changin your view swishh because of play. There is no reason why my play should have affected your read on swishh and Necorpsy. Your read on them had nothing to do with my posts, but how swishh went about the claim.
Now your changing speeds and telling others to "forget about swishh" when, in fact, we shouldn't. It's strange that becasue of one post, from me, swishh is no longer scum to you.
I have a very strong feeling that Wessel and swishh are scum buddies after this turn about from Wessel.
I really want to hear Necropsy's claim first. You'll get your explanation though, don't worry.
I'd also like to say that Necropsy not showing up is definitely not a sign in his favor. Is Necropsy a newbie? I looked through his posting history and he's got no mafia games on this site under his belt. Noob scum shaken by the immediate pressure he received is a pretty reasonable explanation for his lack of any posting/claiming/content.
{Magic: The RPG}
{Magic: The RPG}
Sure, but don't try to involve it with my disagreement.
I kept the discussion off Void because I don't like getting sidetracked. At any rate, I think Void is town. He's very patient in dealing with your defensive breakdown (for instance, he could've chosen to attack you in a moment of weakness to rile you up further, but instead patiently asked for clarification), and he builds upon and expands his cases rather than harping on early-game posting excessively.
It's all about context. The exact same thing said in two different contexts can go from extremely townie to extremely scummy. In this case, it's not really claiming scumminess on Void's part per se that raised a red flag, it's the fact that you did it in response to a case on you. If you want to case Void, go ahead, but responding to a case by pointing a finger at someone else is deflection. If you were to say "I did it because Void was acting suspicious," then that'd be totally fine, but you didn't leave it there. You tried to shift the subject to his scumminess by asking "Don't you see the scumminess behind his play?" And that's not going to fly with me.
I didn't respond to it because it's completely uninformed and to do so would have simply threatened to derail the thread. I have only two completed games prior to this one, Mod Mafia 5 and Mod Mafia 6. In MM5, I was scum, and basically rode the noob card and horribly playing town to victory. In MM6, I was the doc, got run up to claim range nearly instantly, and then had the game soured for me by a personal dispute with another player. By the time I got enough interest back in MM6 for serious analysis, I'd been only barely playing for so long that it was extremely difficult to get caught up. So for Proph to claim that my town game "usually" goes a certain way is flatly absurd, and trying to base an argument about my meta on "a couple of [my] posts" doesn't even make sense given that I had 428 posts in that game.
I still want his claim, though, because regardless of problems with availability (as he's stated in quite a few of his posts to date), inactivity shouldn't get him out of having to claim.
In light of the short time frame, I'd like everyone to answer the following questions:
1) Do you feel comfortable lynching Necropsy even if he doesn't claim tonight?
2) If not, why not? If so, do you feel this qualifies as a policy lynch or as a well-founded lynch for actual reasons?
My answers at this point are "yes" and "yes, it's a policy lynch for stalling" (because seriously, he doesn't need to be drinking all the time and that is the worst excuse for not claiming I have ever seen).
Vote Necropsy and may you not be the town drunk.
(Probably NSFW) So you may have heard I'm trying to write a TV series...
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Curse PremiumI'm not chaining lynches. I'm simply stating what my reads are and how I want them lynched and in what order. It's just another way of showing my reads.
Also, thanks for verifying that you're voting swishh for being bad as opposed to being scum.
You're really stretching to call me scum, Void. I voted MDenham because I thought those smileys indicated nervousness (you've been caught due to smiley usage in RVS as well; how come you don't know that smiley usage in RVS indicates defensive nervousness?)
On your #180, I'm not seeing a question there.
After reading his recent posts, I think Void is terrible town. Void tends to be less aggressive and more lurky as scum (see Survival Horror).
@Teia: Why do Wessel's ad hom attacks make Wessel more likely to be scum?
In any rate, I feel like we should go ahead with the Necropsy lynch toDay. I feel like he's disappearing until someone else gets pressured and people forget about him (see: Wessel).
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Curse Premium1. If he lurks for the next four or five days then of course I'm going to lynch him. But that's enough time for the mod to prod/replace him and for his replacement to claim, so no. I'd be willing to wait, giving that we have five days until deadline.
2. I feel like it's time to policy lynch a claim dodger.
Are you implying that you would call me scum if I hadn't been attacked? If so, why?
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Curse PremiumThanks.
Yes. His conduct was painfully scummy even before his inactivity got to the point where I'm fine policy lynching him.
It shows that there's some level of cognitive dissonance at work, since he cried foul at all the perceived attacks on him, yet was more than willing to attack others in the same way he seemed to feel they were attacking him. He was defensive and lashing out at others in a way that showed he'd lost sight of the situation. It was an extension of the defensiveness I'd already established he had, and it makes him look more like cornered scum than flailing town.
Is it really surprising that I'm out and about on Friday and Saturday? That aside,I doubt my claiming will make any waves, considering I'm just a vanilla townie and don't hold a power role (except the power to vote, if that counts).
Do you need irl dated photos of me at the workshop getting on the blaze?
No but seriously, mods feel free to look at the IPs I've accessed the forums on recently; you'll find they don't match my home one. That I'm being questioned about a weekend out, I find completely ridiculous
That said, I'm pretty sure everyone in this game is capable of deciphering drunk posts (with the possible exception of Prophylaxis, who is well known to be a Small Child), and so our being annoyed over the whole "you couldn't take 30 seconds to ramble off your role in a short post", especially when you'd made other posts apologizing for not posting (which undoubtedly took longer to write), should be somewhat expected.
I mean, christ, it's not like claiming when you get your first opportunity to post, drunk or not, is rocket surgery.
(Probably NSFW) So you may have heard I'm trying to write a TV series...
Can we lynch Necropsy now?
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Curse PremiumReaasons?