lol anyone serious about the kpaca lynch needs to check themselves before they wreak themselves
Why are you so sure Kpaca is town?
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Why are you so sensitive to this?Kpaca has like 3 votes.
Why are you so sure Kpaca is town?
I'm not so sure he is town but I'm definitely sure that "Its day 1 and day one is random so lets lynch someone who we think will hurt the town in the long run" it a TERRIBLE policy.
I'm not so sure he is town but I'm definitely sure that "Its day 1 and day one is random so lets lynch someone who we think will hurt the town in the long run" it a TERRIBLE policy.
Considering it's kpaca and kpaca does have an absurdly high win rate in neutral roles, lynching him D1 could be a safer play than you might think. I'm not advocating we just lynch kpaca right away, but if there is no candidate come the deadline it might be a good move to eliminate the possibility of a neutral kpaca doing his thing again.
No offense kpaca. Consider it a recognition of your skills.
Considering it's kpaca and kpaca does have an absurdly high win rate in neutral roles, lynching him D1 could be a safer play than you might think. I'm not advocating we just lynch kpaca right away, but if there is no candidate come the deadline it might be a good move to eliminate the possibility of a neutral kpaca doing his thing again.
No offense kpaca. Consider it a recognition of your skills.
I'm going to assume your post is serious and Unvote, Vote Nis.
Considering it's kpaca and kpaca does have an absurdly high win rate in neutral roles, lynching him D1 could be a safer play than you might think. I'm not advocating we just lynch kpaca right away, but if there is no candidate come the deadline it might be a good move to eliminate the possibility of a neutral kpaca doing his thing again.
No offense kpaca. Consider it a recognition of your skills.
This is the worse meta abuse I have seen in years. He could be a townie you know?
This is the worse meta abuse I have seen in years. He could be a townie you know?
Unvote, vote Nis
Horrible policy.
Yeesh. You two are acting like I suggested we lynch kpaca now.
All I'm saying is that in the unlikely scenario where we reach the deadline without any likely lynch candidates kpaca could be a viable option given how good he is at playing a neutral. If you're forced to roll a die you might as well weight it if you can.
Considering it's kpaca and kpaca does have an absurdly high win rate in neutral roles, lynching him D1 could be a safer play than you might think. I'm not advocating we just lynch kpaca right away, but if there is no candidate come the deadline it might be a good move to eliminate the possibility of a neutral kpaca doing his thing again.
No offense kpaca. Consider it a recognition of your skills.
Uh, wait a minute. Let's lay out the problem here explictly.
You are proposing a potential Day 1 lynch... on the grounds that a player is good at playing neutral (not Mafia, neutral)... in a Mini (where neutrals are considerably less likely to appear than in a larger game) to boot.
Neutral hunting is classic Mafia behavior (to hide how they aren't actually scumhunting), doubly so when they're less likely to appear in the game.
Yeesh. You two are acting like I suggested we lynch kpaca now.
All I'm saying is that in the unlikely scenario where we reach the deadline without any likely lynch candidates kpaca could be a viable option given how good he is at playing a neutral. If you're forced to roll a die you might as well weight it if you can.
Uh, is it just me, or is that a hamhanded attempt to backpedal? The problem isn't what you proposed so much as why you proposed it.
Also, if you're worried about a potential lack of candidates for lynch at deadline, shouldn't you be working to find other candidates? It might work better than sitting back and hoping somebody else will find something. You know, unless that lack of candidates was your goal in the first place.
I really didn't think you two were serious about the # of fingers thing. Hand of Suspicion > Finger of Suspicion and 3x power was the first thing that came to mind. Sure, 5 fingers makes more sense for a hand.
Taredas, what would you think of me giving you my vote toDay? I'm not kidding about being bad at Day 1. My votes usually end up random until I've analyzed a vote-wagon post-flip and seen a round of Night actions.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
I really didn't think you two were serious about the # of fingers thing. Hand of Suspicion > Finger of Suspicion and 3x power was the first thing that came to mind. Sure, 5 fingers makes more sense for a hand.
That was more rhetorical than anything else. However, my actual question remains unanswered:
He was saying he was suspicious of DRey to the point of action. (Be that FoS or Vote, close enough.) I think DRey was still being goofy. By all means vote him if you want, but that seemed like a weak reason in context.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Respond what, have you or anyone else made a question for me?
I was waiting for you to respond to his comment about your "insincere" emotion. Since, while I thought it was intentionally insincere as a joke, I didn't want to assume that and provide you an explanation in the event I was wrong and he was actually on to something.
Considering it's kpaca and kpaca does have an absurdly high win rate in neutral roles, lynching him D1 could be a safer play than you might think. I'm not advocating we just lynch kpaca right away, but if there is no candidate come the deadline it might be a good move to eliminate the possibility of a neutral kpaca doing his thing again.
No offense kpaca. Consider it a recognition of your skills.
While this is basically what I was referencing when I said Asenion's plan wasn't terrible, I wasn't seriously advocating it as a real option -for either now or later.
All I'm saying is that in the unlikely scenario where we reach the deadline without any likely lynch candidates kpaca could be a viable option given how good he is at playing a neutral. If you're forced to roll a die you might as well weight it if you can.
I really didn't think you two were serious about the # of fingers thing. Hand of Suspicion > Finger of Suspicion and 3x power was the first thing that came to mind. Sure, 5 fingers makes more sense for a hand.
I have my reasons for being serious. They will become obvious by the end of the day.
Taredas, what would you think of me giving you my vote toDay? I'm not kidding about being bad at Day 1. My votes usually end up random until I've analyzed a vote-wagon post-flip and seen a round of Night actions.
Why would you make this offer this early as town? I see several gaping problems with this offer from the perspective of potential Asenion-town: 100% barning another player makes it much harder for players to get a read on you (since your reasoning for each vote would be entirely "Tar was HoSing this player), and you'd be running the risk that you are effectively giving up your vote to the Mafia if I'm scum (from where I'm sitting I know that this isn't the case, but you can't be sure). On the flip side, all of the obvious drawbacks go away if you're scum trying to buddy up to a new player/get an excuse to vote without explaining why.
It was just an offer man. I was thinking you didn't hav a vote and I'm bad at Day 1, so my vote might be more useful in your hands. Sure it removes responsibility from me and weakens tells on me, but it would have the opposite effect on you.
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Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
It wasn't meant to be a serious proposal. I don't know how experienced you are so I was offering a counterpoint to your claim of "TERRIBLE POLICY" with a hypothetical that takes into account a particular player's skill.
You are proposing a potential Day 1 lynch... on the grounds that a player is good at playing neutral (not Mafia, neutral)... in a Mini (where neutrals are considerably less likely to appear than in a larger game) to boot.
Neutral hunting is classic Mafia behavior (to hide how they aren't actually scumhunting), doubly so when they're less likely to appear in the game.
I'm not trying to hunt a neutral. It's like you people can't recognize hypotheticals. I guess it's my fault for not being explicit that it was merely a counter to Che's claim that random lynching D1 is automatically "TERRIBLE POLICY." I was trying to show that it might not be terrible depending on context. Jeez. I'm not seriously advocating a kpaca lynch "just because" nor have I ever advocated such a move. I have a suspicion you're trying to chum up the waters.
This game will be easy, my reads as for now. Content later, I need to work now.
town
Asen
Tar
Nis
scum
che
kpaca
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
It wasn't meant to be a serious proposal. I don't know how experienced you are so I was offering a counterpoint to your claim of "TERRIBLE POLICY" with a hypothetical that takes into account a particular player's skill.
I'm not trying to hunt a neutral. It's like you people can't recognize hypotheticals. I guess it's my fault for not being explicit that it was merely a counter to Che's claim that random lynching D1 is automatically "TERRIBLE POLICY." I was trying to show that it might not be terrible depending on context. Jeez. I'm not seriously advocating a kpaca lynch "just because" nor have I ever advocated such a move. I have a suspicion you're trying to chum up the waters.
Experienced enough to know that random lynching due to previous games is a horrible idea. And you even said that the reason is that he play well as neutral... thats hunting neutrals
Do you have another line of action in mind? As far as I can see, DRey is just being DRey. Nothing he has done pings my scumdar and I agree with his posted reads so far. I don't like your post #75.
Btw, I just realized something about my role that the town needs to know. I'm a self-janitor. When I die I will not flip, my role will not be revealed, and my alignment will not be revealed.
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Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Point at me a post of his that is scummy. I'm not trying to defend him, because I only have a neutral read on him. I just don't see any scummy behavior.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
1) Because the implicit reasoning behind your vote (response to post 27) could come from either alignment, and that I would figure out your alignment based on later posts. 2) My gut read is that Asenion is town, especially after post 34. Scum don't generally want to focus negative attention on themselves D1.
3) Because I didn't want to distract from my DRey questioning.
...yes, no scum wants to do so. And yet it happens anyway.
Also, how in the world is post 34 supposed to be Asenion wanting to focus negative attention on himself? It reads to me far more like him wanting to divert said negative attention.
Considering it's kpaca and kpaca does have an absurdly high win rate in neutral roles, lynching him D1 could be a safer play than you might think. I'm not advocating we just lynch kpaca right away, but if there is no candidate come the deadline it might be a good move to eliminate the possibility of a neutral kpaca doing his thing again.
No offense kpaca. Consider it a recognition of your skills.
Yeesh. You two are acting like I suggested we lynch kpaca now.
All I'm saying is that in the unlikely scenario where we reach the deadline without any likely lynch candidates kpaca could be a viable option given how good he is at playing a neutral. If you're forced to roll a die you might as well weight it if you can.
A neutral? In a mini?
Are you actually thinking about this game?
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So many scummy individuals. Mhh.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
See my MafiaScum Wiki page (under my usual username). It's a bit outdated (would be more if not for two hiatuses from MS), but has most of the important info. I can link to a few of my more recent Scum games if you want.
It wasn't meant to be a serious proposal. I don't know how experienced you are so I was offering a counterpoint to your claim of "TERRIBLE POLICY" with a hypothetical that takes into account a particular player's skill.
I'm not trying to hunt a neutral. It's like you people can't recognize hypotheticals. I guess it's my fault for not being explicit that it was merely a counter to Che's claim that random lynching D1 is automatically "TERRIBLE POLICY." I was trying to show that it might not be terrible depending on context. Jeez. I'm not seriously advocating a kpaca lynch "just because" nor have I ever advocated such a move. I have a suspicion you're trying to chum up the waters.
I've seen too many scum on MS float anti-town suggestions around random stage and backpedal with "oh, I didn't really mean it" to blindly trust that explanation. (Example: Amrun in an NGE theme on Scum (note that link goes to isolation mode, you're looking for the first post re: Cult and the followup.) Why *not* be explicit that you were being hypothetical to start with?
Also, why tack on that last sentence there? If you think I'm scum (implied by "trying to chum up the waters") and you don't think anyone else is scum, why aren't you making a case and voting me? In fact, why do you think I'm "trying to chum up the waters"?
...yes, no scum wants to do so. And yet it happens anyway.
Also, how in the world is post 34 supposed to be Asenion wanting to focus negative attention on himself? It reads to me far more like him wanting to divert said negative attention.
Come on guys, I've said some stupid controversial things now and there's a real vote on me for it. How is that not enough to get conversation started?! Has everyone even posted yet? (Besides obviously the guy who has vanished.)
The bolded is the important part. Asenion looks like he's trying to get the game started, even if that occurs at his expense. Given that he's stated that he's bad at D1 and I understand from lurking Ataghan that he's a newish player, that's an attitude I would expect from him as Town. In fact, that's exactly what *I* did back when I was a newer player on Scum.
Maybe Asenion is lying about not liking D1 and wanting to get out of random stage, but if so he's being consistent about it.
This vote is pretty scummy. Why do you think kpaca is 'obvscum' again?
@Forgotten One
...and I'm seen this pattern before somewhere as well. Hm.
Why so hyper-sensitive about the all of.... 3? votes on kpaca's wagon, hm?
@Nis
A neutral? In a mini?
Are you actually thinking about this game?
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So many scummy individuals. Mhh.
Oh THERE we go. I wondered when a scumbag was going to slip up. Nis can wait, because this post did not come from town.
Look carefully, people. There's a difference between questioning intended to figure out whether a player is scum and scum slinging accusations to see what sticks, and this is the latter. DesCoures accuses a number of players, but doesn't commit to any one of them as more scummy than others (i.e, he's fencesitting).
Also, notice the rhetoric: "vote is pretty scummy", "seen this pattern before", "are you actually thinking about this game?", "so many scummy individuals". The last is particularly revealing: DesCoures specifically refrains from saying that he thinks certain people are scum, but instead says that they are scummy (i.e, being scummy). Why?
I'd guess that's because he knows that most of these people aren't scum, because they weren't included in his group PM.
While you are more experienced than me Taredas, I would not classify myself as new. I was lying a lot in Ataghan for a lot of reasons. I need to work on some aspects of my gameplay (especially as town), but I have played enough to know what's going on.
I was only sort of trying to bait with my partial claim. It's the truth, but I waited for a time to claim it when I thought someone would bite. Then like a moron I got excited and didn't wait for him to incriminate himself further, which mostly ruined the "gambit". Now I'm waiting for people to respond to any of the like 10 crazy things I've said or done this game, and no one is responding at all. I think I play my best when I'm being pressured by people.
I actually think ForgottenOne is scum at this point, but I really like your point on DesCoures. Your analysis of his fencesitting is spot on, and I didn't see it at all the first time. Well crafted post by him IMO. Keep talking and I might switch votes.
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Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
The bolded is the important part. Asenion looks like he's trying to get the game started, even if that occurs at his expense. Given that he's stated that he's bad at D1 and I understand from lurking Ataghan that he's a newish player, that's an attitude I would expect from him as Town. In fact, that's exactly what *I* did back when I was a newer player on Scum.
Maybe Asenion is lying about not liking D1 and wanting to get out of random stage, but if so he's being consistent about it.
I was in Ataghan. He said there that he was lying about being new, among other things he was lying about.
As for the bolded bit, I can see where you're coming from with the first part of it, although I'm not getting the 'occurs at his expense'. However, what about the second part? 'Has everyone even posted yet' looks a heck of a lot like an attempt to direct attention elsewhere.
Oh THERE we go. I wondered when a scumbag was going to slip up. Nis can wait, because this post did not come from town.
Look carefully, people. There's a difference between questioning intended to figure out whether a player is scum and scum slinging accusations to see what sticks, and this is the latter. DesCoures accuses a number of players, but doesn't commit to any one of them as more scummy than others (i.e, he's fencesitting).
Also, notice the rhetoric: "vote is pretty scummy", "seen this pattern before", "are you actually thinking about this game?", "so many scummy individuals". The last is particularly revealing: DesCoures specifically refrains from saying that he thinks certain people are scum, but instead says that they are scummy (i.e, being scummy). Why?
I'd guess that's because he knows that most of these people aren't scum, because they weren't included in his group PM.
UnHoS, HoS: DesCoures
...I say 'so many scummy individuals' because currently, half this game looks scummy to me, and that's clearly far too many.
As for the rest of your accusation... it's called 'questioning'. Where I kind of want them all to answer my questions before I actually decide which might be actual tells and which are false positives. It's not something unusual on, say, day 1, within the first couple of hundred posts.
...in fact, a question, Taredas. Do you actually find nothing wrong with DRey's vote at all?
While you are more experienced than me Taredas, I would not classify myself as new. I was lying a lot in Ataghan for a lot of reasons. I need to work on some aspects of my gameplay (especially as town), but I have played enough to know what's going on.
I was only sort of trying to bait with my partial claim. It's the truth, but I waited for a time to claim it when I thought someone would bite. Then like a moron I got excited and didn't wait for him to incriminate himself further, which mostly ruined the "gambit". Now I'm waiting for people to respond to any of the like 10 crazy things I've said or done this game, and no one is responding at all. I think I play my best when I'm being pressured by people.
I actually think ForgottenOne is scum at this point, but I really like your point on DesCoures. Your analysis of his fencesitting is spot on, and I didn't see it at all the first time. Well crafted post by him IMO. Keep talking and I might switch votes.
...well, that was a pretty fast barning. I particularly dislike that hands-off encouragement of him to go after me.
Also, what in the world did you mean by 'didn't see it the first time'?
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I've seen too many scum on MS float anti-town suggestions around random stage and backpedal with "oh, I didn't really mean it" to blindly trust that explanation. (Example: Amrun in an NGE theme on Scum (note that link goes to isolation mode, you're looking for the first post re: Cult and the followup.) Why *not* be explicit that you were being hypothetical to start with?
This helps me a good bit. The MS and Sally metas are quite different. Gambits, not that that is what I did, in RVS are somewhat common here, both from town and scum.
As for why I didn't explicitly state it was a hypothetical: I thought it would be obvious to anyone who knows kpaca. My mistake for not realizing we had some new players to our meta.
Also, why tack on that last sentence there? If you think I'm scum (implied by "trying to chum up the waters") and you don't think anyone else is scum, why aren't you making a case and voting me? In fact, why do you think I'm "trying to chum up the waters"?
Whoa. Suspicion =/= thinking somebody is scum. You were the first to bring up neutral hunting which set off an alarm bell to me. I had no intention of trying to hunt a neutral so for you to suggest it made it seem like you were trying to fabricate a case, hence "chum the waters." It got you a tick of a scum point and a note.
Furthermore, it's far too early for anybody to formulate concrete notions about who is scum and who isn't (other than scum themselves). Voting for you now would be nothing than OMGUS at best.
I have a suspicion they were turned off after a player inadvertently changed his vote in an ongoing game (which I won't name) due to a quote fail. Nested quotes can be nice but tricky to get right if you want to cut certain portions from long nests. After using them the past few months I wouldn't mind having one level of nesting, but if that can't be done I'm fine with them being gone.
@Forgotten One
...and I'm seen this pattern before somewhere as well. Hm.
Why so hyper-sensitive about the all of.... 3? votes on kpaca's wagon, hm?
1) It was a random vote, and we were no longer in RVS.
2) People were talking about lynching kpaca "just cuz" and I wanted no part of that.
3) Why are you so hyper-sensitive about my removing a random vote?
Anybody else want to make a mountain out of this molehill?
I actually think ForgottenOne is scum at this point, but I really like your point on DesCoures. Your analysis of his fencesitting is spot on, and I didn't see it at all the first time. Well crafted post by him IMO. Keep talking and I might switch votes.
1) I love that you think I'm scum at this point for the whole 4 sentences I've posted so far....
2) Anybody else see the seeds of distancing between Asenion and decCoures?
He was saying he was suspicious of DRey to the point of action. (Be that FoS or Vote, close enough.) I think DRey was still being goofy. By all means vote him if you want, but that seemed like a weak reason in context.
Why so eager to jump to his defense, especially over an FoS?
As for why I didn't explicitly state it was a hypothetical: I thought it would be obvious to anyone who knows kpaca. My mistake for not realizing we had some new players to our meta.
OOG:
I have a suspicion they were turned off after a player inadvertently changed his vote in an ongoing game (which I won't name) due to a quote fail. Nested quotes can be nice but tricky to get right if you want to cut certain portions from long nests. After using them the past few months I wouldn't mind having one level of nesting, but if that can't be done I'm fine with them being gone.
As a note, they're still on in the main forum. They're just not up here.
I actually think ForgottenOne is scum at this point, but I really like your point on DesCoures. Your analysis of his fencesitting is spot on, and I didn't see it at all the first time. Well crafted post by him IMO. Keep talking and I might switch votes.
Look carefully, people. There's a difference between questioning intended to figure out whether a player is scum and scum slinging accusations to see what sticks, and this is the latter. DesCoures accuses a number of players, but doesn't commit to any one of them as more scummy than others (i.e, he's fencesitting).
You don't distinguish between the two. What you accuse desCoures of can fall in the first category.
Considering it's kpaca and kpaca does have an absurdly high win rate in neutral roles, lynching him D1 could be a safer play than you might think. I'm not advocating we just lynch kpaca right away, but if there is no candidate come the deadline it might be a good move to eliminate the possibility of a neutral kpaca doing his thing again.
No offense kpaca. Consider it a recognition of your skills.
There are two main sticking points in this:
1) Absence of mafia in this statement, despite that having happened with kpaca as mafia.
2) It sets up a possibility for deadline. That, in itself, suggests that it's possible to reach deadline without him thinking anyone's scum. See the part with "no candidate come the deadline"?
1) Absence of mafia in this statement, despite that having happened with kpaca as mafia.
2) It sets up a possibility for deadline. That, in itself, suggests that it's possible to reach deadline without him thinking anyone's scum. See the part with "no candidate come the deadline"?
Hypothetical
Of course it excludes the possibility of mafia!kpaca; the "rule" is based on the idea of a neutral!kpaca. An of course it includes the possibility of a deadline; the "rule" is based on the idea of reaching a deadline.
To make myself clear again, I'm not saying kpaca is a neutral nor am I saying we'll reach the deadline without clear candidates. I was simply making a hypothetical statement that if a game ever reaches the deadline D1 without a clear lynch candidate then lynching kpaca to eliminate the possibility of a neutral!kpaca could be a viable option given kpaca's skill as a neutral. To be even more clear, this hypothetical is purely to show Che that a random lynch D1, if it comes to it, can be made in a way where it is not "TERRIBLE" policy (albeit it's basically a "LESSBAD" policy). My intent was as narrow as that.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Why are you so sure Kpaca is town?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Sensitive???? How about sensible....
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
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I'm not so sure he is town but I'm definitely sure that "Its day 1 and day one is random so lets lynch someone who we think will hurt the town in the long run" it a TERRIBLE policy.
Considering it's kpaca and kpaca does have an absurdly high win rate in neutral roles, lynching him D1 could be a safer play than you might think. I'm not advocating we just lynch kpaca right away, but if there is no candidate come the deadline it might be a good move to eliminate the possibility of a neutral kpaca doing his thing again.
No offense kpaca. Consider it a recognition of your skills.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
If you didn't know that was a vote proxy, what's the point of the last part of your response? ("DRey is just like that. He's goofing off a bit.")
The resounding silence feels nice and comfortable.
Is this serious? If so, why?
I'm going to assume your post is serious and Unvote, Vote Nis.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
This is the worse meta abuse I have seen in years. He could be a townie you know?
Unvote, vote Nis
Horrible policy.
Yeesh. You two are acting like I suggested we lynch kpaca now.
All I'm saying is that in the unlikely scenario where we reach the deadline without any likely lynch candidates kpaca could be a viable option given how good he is at playing a neutral. If you're forced to roll a die you might as well weight it if you can.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
I'm unfamiliar with your experience so I offered a case where lynching kpaca D1 is not automatically "TERRIBLE POLICY."
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
What? That didn't answer my question at all.
I hate meta arguments anyway. People can change how they play.
Uh, wait a minute. Let's lay out the problem here explictly.
You are proposing a potential Day 1 lynch... on the grounds that a player is good at playing neutral (not Mafia, neutral)... in a Mini (where neutrals are considerably less likely to appear than in a larger game) to boot.
Neutral hunting is classic Mafia behavior (to hide how they aren't actually scumhunting), doubly so when they're less likely to appear in the game.
Uh, is it just me, or is that a hamhanded attempt to backpedal? The problem isn't what you proposed so much as why you proposed it.
Also, if you're worried about a potential lack of candidates for lynch at deadline, shouldn't you be working to find other candidates? It might work better than sitting back and hoping somebody else will find something. You know, unless that lack of candidates was your goal in the first place.
UnHoS, HoS: Nis
---
In other news:
No, I'm saying that your emotion looks fake and faked emotion isn't town behavior.
Really? Not seeing it here...
Asenion, why are you ignoring the question both Cyouni and I asked:
Enquiring minds want an answer.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Taredas, what would you think of me giving you my vote toDay? I'm not kidding about being bad at Day 1. My votes usually end up random until I've analyzed a vote-wagon post-flip and seen a round of Night actions.
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That was more rhetorical than anything else. However, my actual question remains unanswered:
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I saw it. His reaction was fine. -There wasn't much else to say on it until you followed up.
I think they open up conversation nicely. Even just discussing a potential soft claim can be useful for finding leads.
I was waiting for you to respond to his comment about your "insincere" emotion. Since, while I thought it was intentionally insincere as a joke, I didn't want to assume that and provide you an explanation in the event I was wrong and he was actually on to something.
While this is basically what I was referencing when I said Asenion's plan wasn't terrible, I wasn't seriously advocating it as a real option -for either now or later.
Yeah, that is still not okay.
Unvote; Vote: Nis
Asenion is probably town.
Vote: Che Guvara
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
I have my reasons for being serious. They will become obvious by the end of the day.
Why would you make this offer this early as town? I see several gaping problems with this offer from the perspective of potential Asenion-town: 100% barning another player makes it much harder for players to get a read on you (since your reasoning for each vote would be entirely "Tar was HoSing this player), and you'd be running the risk that you are effectively giving up your vote to the Mafia if I'm scum (from where I'm sitting I know that this isn't the case, but you can't be sure). On the flip side, all of the obvious drawbacks go away if you're scum trying to buddy up to a new player/get an excuse to vote without explaining why.
FoS: Asenion
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
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It wasn't meant to be a serious proposal. I don't know how experienced you are so I was offering a counterpoint to your claim of "TERRIBLE POLICY" with a hypothetical that takes into account a particular player's skill.
I'm not trying to hunt a neutral. It's like you people can't recognize hypotheticals. I guess it's my fault for not being explicit that it was merely a counter to Che's claim that random lynching D1 is automatically "TERRIBLE POLICY." I was trying to show that it might not be terrible depending on context. Jeez. I'm not seriously advocating a kpaca lynch "just because" nor have I ever advocated such a move. I have a suspicion you're trying to chum up the waters.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Fiancee is in the hospital (nothing super serious), and I'll be in and out of there, unlikely I'll have time to finish up my post.
town
Asen
Tar
Nis
scum
che
kpaca
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
There is a possibility that anyone can be town, why random lynch and risk killing town?
Experienced enough to know that random lynching due to previous games is a horrible idea. And you even said that the reason is that he play well as neutral... thats hunting neutrals
Do you have another line of action in mind? As far as I can see, DRey is just being DRey. Nothing he has done pings my scumdar and I agree with his posted reads so far. I don't like your post #75.
Btw, I just realized something about my role that the town needs to know. I'm a self-janitor. When I die I will not flip, my role will not be revealed, and my alignment will not be revealed.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
@Tar how experienced are you again?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Anybody else want to give themselves up as obvscum?
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
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Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
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Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
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Vote The Forgotten One
Anyone else want to vote based on nothing but a partial role claim in a specialty.
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@Taredas
...yes, no scum wants to do so. And yet it happens anyway.
Also, how in the world is post 34 supposed to be Asenion wanting to focus negative attention on himself? It reads to me far more like him wanting to divert said negative attention.
@DRey
This vote is pretty scummy. Why do you think kpaca is 'obvscum' again?
@Forgotten One
...and I'm seen this pattern before somewhere as well. Hm.
Why so hyper-sensitive about the all of.... 3? votes on kpaca's wagon, hm?
@Nis
A neutral? In a mini?
Are you actually thinking about this game?
------------------
So many scummy individuals. Mhh.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
See my MafiaScum Wiki page (under my usual username). It's a bit outdated (would be more if not for two hiatuses from MS), but has most of the important info. I can link to a few of my more recent Scum games if you want.
I've seen too many scum on MS float anti-town suggestions around random stage and backpedal with "oh, I didn't really mean it" to blindly trust that explanation. (Example: Amrun in an NGE theme on Scum (note that link goes to isolation mode, you're looking for the first post re: Cult and the followup.) Why *not* be explicit that you were being hypothetical to start with?
Also, why tack on that last sentence there? If you think I'm scum (implied by "trying to chum up the waters") and you don't think anyone else is scum, why aren't you making a case and voting me? In fact, why do you think I'm "trying to chum up the waters"?
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The bolded is the important part. Asenion looks like he's trying to get the game started, even if that occurs at his expense. Given that he's stated that he's bad at D1 and I understand from lurking Ataghan that he's a newish player, that's an attitude I would expect from him as Town. In fact, that's exactly what *I* did back when I was a newer player on Scum.
Maybe Asenion is lying about not liking D1 and wanting to get out of random stage, but if so he's being consistent about it.
Oh THERE we go. I wondered when a scumbag was going to slip up. Nis can wait, because this post did not come from town.
Look carefully, people. There's a difference between questioning intended to figure out whether a player is scum and scum slinging accusations to see what sticks, and this is the latter. DesCoures accuses a number of players, but doesn't commit to any one of them as more scummy than others (i.e, he's fencesitting).
Also, notice the rhetoric: "vote is pretty scummy", "seen this pattern before", "are you actually thinking about this game?", "so many scummy individuals". The last is particularly revealing: DesCoures specifically refrains from saying that he thinks certain people are scum, but instead says that they are scummy (i.e, being scummy). Why?
I'd guess that's because he knows that most of these people aren't scum, because they weren't included in his group PM.
UnHoS, HoS: DesCoures
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
I was only sort of trying to bait with my partial claim. It's the truth, but I waited for a time to claim it when I thought someone would bite. Then like a moron I got excited and didn't wait for him to incriminate himself further, which mostly ruined the "gambit". Now I'm waiting for people to respond to any of the like 10 crazy things I've said or done this game, and no one is responding at all. I think I play my best when I'm being pressured by people.
I actually think ForgottenOne is scum at this point, but I really like your point on DesCoures. Your analysis of his fencesitting is spot on, and I didn't see it at all the first time. Well crafted post by him IMO. Keep talking and I might switch votes.
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I was in Ataghan. He said there that he was lying about being new, among other things he was lying about.
As for the bolded bit, I can see where you're coming from with the first part of it, although I'm not getting the 'occurs at his expense'. However, what about the second part? 'Has everyone even posted yet' looks a heck of a lot like an attempt to direct attention elsewhere.
...I say 'so many scummy individuals' because currently, half this game looks scummy to me, and that's clearly far too many.
As for the rest of your accusation... it's called 'questioning'. Where I kind of want them all to answer my questions before I actually decide which might be actual tells and which are false positives. It's not something unusual on, say, day 1, within the first couple of hundred posts.
...in fact, a question, Taredas. Do you actually find nothing wrong with DRey's vote at all?
@Asenion
...well, that was a pretty fast barning. I particularly dislike that hands-off encouragement of him to go after me.
Also, what in the world did you mean by 'didn't see it the first time'?
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
One last time: I wasn't trying to neutral hunt. But, more to your question, Redux 1 did have a neutral in a mini. It's not unheard of.
This helps me a good bit. The MS and Sally metas are quite different. Gambits, not that that is what I did, in RVS are somewhat common here, both from town and scum.
As for why I didn't explicitly state it was a hypothetical: I thought it would be obvious to anyone who knows kpaca. My mistake for not realizing we had some new players to our meta.
Whoa. Suspicion =/= thinking somebody is scum. You were the first to bring up neutral hunting which set off an alarm bell to me. I had no intention of trying to hunt a neutral so for you to suggest it made it seem like you were trying to fabricate a case, hence "chum the waters." It got you a tick of a scum point and a note.
Furthermore, it's far too early for anybody to formulate concrete notions about who is scum and who isn't (other than scum themselves). Voting for you now would be nothing than OMGUS at best.
OOG:
I have a suspicion they were turned off after a player inadvertently changed his vote in an ongoing game (which I won't name) due to a quote fail. Nested quotes can be nice but tricky to get right if you want to cut certain portions from long nests. After using them the past few months I wouldn't mind having one level of nesting, but if that can't be done I'm fine with them being gone.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Your role claim was only part of it, but nice OMGUS...
1) It was a random vote, and we were no longer in RVS.
2) People were talking about lynching kpaca "just cuz" and I wanted no part of that.
3) Why are you so hyper-sensitive about my removing a random vote?
Anybody else want to make a mountain out of this molehill?
1) I love that you think I'm scum at this point for the whole 4 sentences I've posted so far....
2) Anybody else see the seeds of distancing between Asenion and decCoures?
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
How is that relevant?
As a note, they're still on in the main forum. They're just not up here.
You never gave a reason for this.
What's with the willingness to switch votes?
You don't distinguish between the two. What you accuse desCoures of can fall in the first category.
In other words, expand on the difference.
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There are two main sticking points in this:
1) Absence of mafia in this statement, despite that having happened with kpaca as mafia.
2) It sets up a possibility for deadline. That, in itself, suggests that it's possible to reach deadline without him thinking anyone's scum. See the part with "no candidate come the deadline"?
Follow the thread. Or, in other words, I have no idea what you're asking.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.