That is a fair point by Zionite(it comes across as kind of whiny, but I don't think he intends for it to). He had to role play for a role that isn't anything worth role playing for. Ged's role was amazing, the role playing bonus was unquestionably worth achieving, and the character that he had to roleplay is easy enough to imitate.
I also agree with him that posting restrictions suck. In almost every circumstance. They add no depth or content to the game, typically just cause pointless distractions, and mostly just feel like the Mod wanting to toy with some unfortunate player. A scum ESPECIALLY should not ever have a posting restriction. Xyre did a good job with giving Ged an incentive to RP(not that Ged really needs one anyway, he loves RPing), but ultimately, PRs still suck.
I honestly think that, if a game is going to feature role(s) with posting restrictions(or even the possibility of them, such as what Seppel's role could do), the Mod should disclose this before the game starts. I love Xyre's games and was mostly impressed with the players chosen for this game, but I don't think I would have signed up if I knew that the game would feature posting restrictions.
They can be fun, but they should be worthwhile too. I was unfortunately uninspired to pretend to be anyone and the payoff wasn't great considering I was scum.
Go Town! Thank you guys for giving me my third win!
Just a few quick things to say, some of which I've already said in spectator chat:
I had the chance to win the game for the town, and messed it up because I was having some issues in Real Life, and other games were pissing me off. So between May 10th and 11th, I was doing train of thought posts instead of what I normally do: Re-read my other posts and make sure I'm not contradicting myself. Unfortunately train of thought posts don't work out well when you're pissed off and stressed out. I was upset about being a cop that was basically a vanilla townie, and for some reason I wasn't seeing the full picture when it came to Cyan. I could have made this a flawless townie victory by voting for Cyan in post 978. A_E would have hammered him in his next post. I got caught up in the fact that the only reason I had a town read on Iso was if he could use his shot and tried to win the game by PoE only using his ability. That day, A_E could have had his ability proven, Iso could have had his ability proven, but I kept forgetting that Iso's death wouldn't give me my ability. And of course, Cyan's cool tone throughout his posts made him look a lot better than a raving lunatic who was throwing suspicion on everyone alive in game at that point. I played my absolute best town game in history up until May 10th. Before that, I was completely spot on with Zionite catch early as heck on D1 (Something I'd never done before,) called Seppel's alignment, was originally right about it being okay for the Chroma Killer to live past that day, realized super late that Axel's death needed to happen because he was so defeatist after being called out by Az and not having a good claim. If I would have kept my head on straight, we would have had a flawless game, even without a cop investigation.
That being said: To me, that is one of the worst cop roles to put in this game. The lynch of 5/12 players keeps it from being able to investigate, PLUS there was a Governor who could stop the lynch of a townie, making it 6/12 players that couldn't be lynched D1 to give me a N1 investigation. Granted, most mislynches happen D1 and Xyre couldn't take into account Az's great play, but still having only a 50/50 shot of getting an investigation with the chances going down every day sucks when there are 4/12 scum.
To the living players:
@Cyan: Absolutely amazing play. It was awesome reading your scum chat and watching how crafty you were in creating your false claim and using your abilities. Spot on job getting Az to change his mind about me. He went from "WoLG is town, the scum is either ZDS or Cyan and I just confirmed it's not ZDS, so gg town!" to lynching the claimed cop that is a "often mislynched player for poor wording" based on...poor wording. I was never quite sure about your alignment because with how weak my role is, a 1 shot cop add in seemed fair. But once you claimed that one of your shots were watcher, it was a done deal. I'm not sure why people didn't pick up on the "Town Cop and Town Name Cop" being dead and you claiming two investigative abilities.
@ZDS: Your play change from the first day to the last was a complete phoenix. You went from defeatism about being run up on crappy logic to playing a very pro-town game. I was on the fence about you mostly because of the defeatism and some of your wording, and was never cemented in a read on you. I think this is because I haven't played with you in a long time and forgot about your playstyle.
@Iso: This game gave me a lot of insight about how you look at the game. I would have played your role completely differently, ensuring my death at some point, but in the end it was unnecessary. Good job on making the right choice in the end game.
@A_E: I can definitely see why other players billed you as an often mislynched player. You're as bad at wording things as I am, and you hardcore lurked your way through the game. If I wasn't letting myself be influenced by other players saying it was normal play for you, you were second on my scumlist behind Zionite. Even reading the thread after I died and knew your alignment, you were coming off way scummier than Cyan.
___________________________________
@Az: Freaking great game. Not much more that I can say besides that. You called out pretty much everyones alignments on Day 1, and if I wasn't having such a rough time in RL, I'm sure you wouldn't have lynched me. Definitely amazing.
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I had the chance to win the game for the town, and messed it up because I was having some issues in Real Life, and other games were pissing me off. So between May 10th and 11th, I was doing train of thought posts instead of what I normally do: Re-read my other posts and make sure I'm not contradicting myself. Unfortunately train of thought posts don't work out well when you're pissed off and stressed out. I was upset about being a cop that was basically a vanilla townie, and for some reason I wasn't seeing the full picture when it came to Cyan. I could have made this a flawless townie victory by voting for Cyan in post 978. A_E would have hammered him in his next post. I got caught up in the fact that the only reason I had a town read on Iso was if he could use his shot and tried to win the game by PoE only using his ability. That day, A_E could have had his ability proven, Iso could have had his ability proven, but I kept forgetting that Iso's death wouldn't give me my ability. And of course, Cyan's cool tone throughout his posts made him look a lot better than a raving lunatic who was throwing suspicion on everyone alive in game at that point. I played my absolute best town game in history up until May 10th. Before that, I was completely spot on with Zionite catch early as heck on D1 (Something I'd never done before,) called Seppel's alignment, was originally right about it being okay for the Chroma Killer to live past that day, realized super late that Axel's death needed to happen because he was so defeatist after being called out by Az and not having a good claim. If I would have kept my head on straight, we would have had a flawless game, even without a cop investigation.
This is interesting. Because you indeed were 'super obvious town with a bullet' for most of the game. Your posts were just unbelievably(and for you, uncharacteristically) clean, methodical, and efficient. You honed in on Zionite with ease, etc. You were the person that we tried to NK N2, because we assumed Az would continue to be protected(obviously we had no way of knowing that Ged's role would just let him protect everybody at the same time). And then at some point you just like..became unhinged, and it was easy to paint your earlier posts in a scummy light because of your later posts. I'm still curious what happened to you.
@Xyre: What was the trigger for Void being able to kill someone? I can't figure that out.
Someone posting in red. CropCircles smartly noted that Seppel used red in that rainbow he added to his "VLA" post.
And I'm not complaining because I lost. I resent that implication.
Let me be clear that I'm not singling you out for this by any means. In my experience, people in general tend after games (and, sometimes, during, as zinda can attest) to judge the setup more negatively if they lost, which can be irritating to the mod. And definitely Greenwood was an exceptional case, and one deserving of all the criticism it received.
All of the roles were interesting, and I think some of them were balanced fine. And I'm not making some wild claims of 'worst setup ever' or 'you're a terrible Mod' or anything like that. I just expect alot out of you, and as far as game balance goes, you didn't deliver on those expectations.
I appreciate the criticisms, but I want to emphasize that these roles aren't quite as strong as that. Ged offsets two kills on other people, but he is almost guaranteed to die for it. Az requires additional information to effectively use his ability, and if he goes for it too early he could just trip on his own laces by not checking a name beforehand. And Iso has to die before he can use his kill, and after he claims/implies such, the only way he's going to die is if he's lynched, so his role only really serves to offset town mistakes, rather than mitigate them completely.
(The day ability thing was a problem, and I'd say is the one big screw-up in the setup. It's certainly something I would have caught if I wasn't being so scrupulous in maintaining PM formatting and had instead used my usual ability-keys. Mea culpa.)
But aside from that, could there have been tweaks? Sure, and I noted and admitted such. But I don't think it's fair to say the game was unbalanced because it could have been tweaked. It's that sentiment that bothers me, especially after a game that was mostly defined by how players played than by the roles.
That said, I will argue that Ged's role massively sucked, and I don't think there's a place for a role virtually guaranteed to mess with 2 Mafia kills (by blanking one totally and misdirecting another) in a mini-game.
Also, it is very sad that Seppel's accidental pardoning of ZDS probably saved the entire game for the Town, as Az loses a ton of credibility with that lynch and I also get to avoid all the tap-dancing around a Zionite lynch for the rest of the day.
Ah, Ged, that was an example where I didn't think it would be a problem after I made one change, but then proceeded to not consider the implications. Originally he was just a bodyguard who survived the first kill, until he got an upgrade to address Asian's balancing concerns. But then I didn't appreciate the interaction between the two. I still think it's not quite as abusive as it seems, depending on how random factors went, but I agree it could be tweaked reasonably. I do wish I had formatted his PM to require him to maintain his PR even after he absorbs a kill.
It was probably inevitable that Seppel would misuse his role, but I didn't expect that combination of smilie and unfortunate circumstance. :wince:
Re: Void/CC - I counted that toward mafia inasmuch as it was a role that could confuse the town (I listed that role on the player list as hitman/survivor/craziness). The entire thing is a red herring, but I felt (and still feel, in all honesty) it's a valid test of whether the town is considering why players do what they do. In that case, even if Rumpel played crazy, my hope was people would see he wasn't a collaborator, if that makes sense.
Re: Zionite - the reason Zionite is nice in the original design is because he gets his results at the beginning of the night, so the mafia if they're planning ahead can rolecop somebody and then confirm whether they're worth shooting that following night. (Which, compared to a regular rolecop, means he gets a night headstart.) But it didn't matter because Zionite forgot about the way the role worked and then died.
One of the things this game did was confirm to me that fanciful ability writing doesn't work in PM formatting, because it's never quite clear what abilities require. Which isn't to say that my normal austere mode is much better, but at least there it's clear "this is what you do, this is when you do it, this is what you get".
Re: Posting restrictions - I included that role in the hopes someone would try to imitate one of the famous crazy posters. Too bad CC was playing under a pseudonym, because that would be an easy (and interesting) person to imitate. But that's one of the big tricks with posting restrictions, eh? If they are more "roleplaying suggestions" than "you can't post like X", they don't really work for certain people over another.
In retrospect, I should have remembered Ozone and rerolled Zionite. (As I mentioned in the QT, I rerolled the role distribution only once, when I decided forcing Az to be Azrael would have been weird.)
But I stuck with posting restrictions for three reasons, despite my experience in Ozone, and that was because: 1) I'm still a Colosseum person at heart and like the idea of roleplaying-for-fun; 2) roleplaying is a gamble, but when it pays off - for real or not - it works beautifully, as Redux 1 demonstrated; and 3) I thought the two I included were too interesting to forfeit.
Re: the cop - What can I say, I hate cops. So I adapted the role to give the town a comeback mechanism - if the town plays badly early, they can have an investigation or two to smooth things out. And of the six roles that don't pay out on lynches, three of them are mafia, one of them is the cop itself, one of them is also a comeback mechanism/offsets the cost of its lynch (Iso), and one of them is a neutral who has to be lynched twice (which I hoped would give the town a bit of pause, because double-life scum I think aren't really balanced most of the time).
I think such a role would be better suited to regular games as well, because it always seems like a cop either does nothing (and throws off the balance) or sets off a string of easy lynches (and throws off the balance). At least here its abuse potential is limited.
(Though I can't claim too much credit for the role, as it's akin to the cop from Matrix Mafia. Which, along with the Cat and Iso's role, makes three roles in this game that were akin to roles from Matrix, which I found amusing when I first realized that.)
On flavor - I did have fun writing the flavor for this game. Of course, the fact that I still had to be creative on deadline made it a little less productive, as always, but allowing myself to just goof off rather than stick to a (sometimes uncomfortable) seriousness made it overall more interesting for me. Hopefully, people enjoyed the unserious flavor.
Rascals has told me he'll start getting everyone access to the other game, but in the meantime, here's the QT for that game: http://quicktopic.com/50/H/a7tpGjZ4X2Cp
I thought the mechanic behind my kill was little to hard to reach. I started using colors to try and bait someone out to do a T/S list or something of the sort, but I knew that would be slim pickings.
I have got to stop being so self-concious about my play when I am a Neutral or Scum.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Xyre did a good job with giving Ged an incentive to RP(not that Ged really needs one anyway, he loves RPing), but ultimately, PRs still suck.
Actually, I hate RPing most of the time. If it's entirely on my terms, I'm friggin down (the one example of this I can think of ended up referenced in this game). But being forced to RP is just a pain in the butt.
I wonder if there's a way to do PRs where you get to let the victi... er, role recipient choose the PR for themselves. I do so love RP when the player is down, but if they are not down, they are REALLY not down and it kills a lot of their fun.
I'm not gonna weigh in on whether the setup was balanced or not before I get a chance to take a better look at it, but I will say I think my role was pretty ridiculously good, especially in the hands of someone like me who's very unlikely to get NKed before using the first protect. If you don't let the clique grow from night to night, it's fine though. I love the "bodyguard with extra life" role.
Officially, yes, but his behavior dictated that the town regard him as anti-town and pick him off. Cropcircles was playing the game with a scum mind-set, despite having been assigned a killing-survivor. He lied about his claim, lurked hard, killed a townie, and we had no way of knowing what his win condition truly was, and whether he would continue killing more of us and form a voting bloc with the mafia.
Given the info available to us, we had absolutely no choice, as it played out, but to regard him as a must-lynch neutral.
FWIW, this is kind of all bull. As soon as I got this role, I knew the strategic thing for me to do would be to play as a townie. With the ability to survive a nightkill, I was more afraid of getting lynched, and taking down a scum or two was obv the best way to avoid a lynch. Also I'm great at it, and I had a killing ability to potentially L5R this bi-atch. I was actively scum hunting during the brief time that I played. The only thing you came at me with as an accusation was that I was in cahoots with Axel and Zionite, which was absurd, and the lurking which was 100% due to an ability to make time for the game. (Hence, my dropping out)
I was finding it hard to get back into the groove of the game, and usually had to make posts very quickly without thinking about it as much as I normally do. Nevertheless, I was playing with a townie mindset. The only reason I killed Seppel was because the poor bastard gave me some red to work with, and I figured that even if killing scum was the plan, knocking off a townie couldn't hurt in case the scum proved hard to catch. I also never lied about my roll, BTW, I'm assuming you were referring to Void.
Also, I was right about Cyan.
I greatly regret replacing out of this game. As soon as I was out, I started getting a lot less hours at work, and quickly found myself with a fair bit of extra time. I ended up keeping up with the game the entire time, and I really do think I had a good shot at recovering in day 2.
But at least my T/S list on day 1 was 100% correct, even if I didn't have the time to drive any lynches.
FWIW, this is kind of all bull. As soon as I got this role, I knew the strategic thing for me to do would be to play as a townie. With the ability to survive a nightkill, I was more afraid of getting lynched, and taking down a scum or two was obv the best way to avoid a lynch. Also I'm great at it, and I had a killing ability to potentially L5R this bi-atch. I was actively scum hunting during the brief time that I played. The only thing you came at me with as an accusation was that I was in cahoots with Axel and Zionite, which was absurd, and the lurking which was 100% due to an ability to make time for the game. (Hence, my dropping out)
I was finding it hard to get back into the groove of the game, and usually had to make posts very quickly without thinking about it as much as I normally do. Nevertheless, I was playing with a townie mindset. The only reason I killed Seppel was because the poor bastard gave me some red to work with, and I figured that even if killing scum was the plan, knocking off a townie couldn't hurt in case the scum proved hard to catch. I also never lied about my roll, BTW, I'm assuming you were referring to Void.
Also, I was right about Cyan.
I greatly regret replacing out of this game. As soon as I was out, I started getting a lot less hours at work, and quickly found myself with a fair bit of extra time. I ended up keeping up with the game the entire time, and I really do think I had a good shot at recovering in day 2.
But at least my T/S list on day 1 was 100% correct, even if I didn't have the time to drive any lynches.
Definitely would have made things more interesting, if you stuck around.
Your connection to Axel/Zionite did turn out to be bunk. On the other hand, we did figure out that you were the probable killer of Seppel, so...
Rumpel's a hitman - he's a true neutral. I never quite figured out where you guys got that he was scum. Because of his role title? I didn't think people would confuse "chroma killer" for "serial killer" quite so readily.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This is interesting. Because you indeed were 'super obvious town with a bullet' for most of the game. Your posts were just unbelievably(and for you, uncharacteristically) clean, methodical, and efficient. You honed in on Zionite with ease, etc. You were the person that we tried to NK N2, because we assumed Az would continue to be protected(obviously we had no way of knowing that Ged's role would just let him protect everybody at the same time). And then at some point you just like..became unhinged, and it was easy to paint your earlier posts in a scummy light because of your later posts. I'm still curious what happened to you.
One of the reasons I left mafia in the first place is that I got lynched a lot from poor wording. Before this game, I had only ever won two games on this site: Hollywood mafia and Code Geass mafia. Only one of those was I actually alive in the endgame. (I'm not sure about any other sites because I don't remember my log in info, or what other sites I played on.)
I even made a few posts in the mafia theory thread back in 09 or 07 about how I regularly get lynched and manage to avoid NK's because of my scummy sounding posts.
In my mind, and in verbal debates, I make perfect sense. I also tend to write very well in a collegiate and professional forum, but for some reason when it comes to mafia I can't properly articulate my logic and thought patterns.
One of the reasons I decided to come back was I have a job now that allows me time to post (major issue over the past few years) and I also have the time to write a post, wait a few mins, then read it out loud to make sure I'm saying exactly what I should be saying. For the past week or so, I've just been posting without re-reading and it's not worked out very well for me.
It got me lynched in this game, and caused issues in ongoing games.
It's kind of weird though. When I can tell someone is being too calculated or re-reading their posts too much, it reads as scum to me. Train-of-thought posts read as town. But for me, train of thought reads to me as scum, and my calculated posts read as town. (I like re-reading my games to see how I look, and I thought this was my best game by far.)
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2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So for those curious, I played my role the way I did for a few reasons. The first goal was to attempt to get Nightkilled by spftclaiming town Daykiller/catching scum. When that didn't work, I attempted to ensure my survival to the endgame with my fullclaim because I was confident in my ability to make the right choice in the end. So...:toot:
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I made mistakes in this game that I couldn't overcome, and there was also an 'unfortunate timing factor' of DYH starting playing again now, with my gameplay these days being drastically different than it was when he and I played together in the past.
You should read my last comment in the spectator thread. I wanted to kick Iso when he started down the "Oh, I should read DYH's posts" and bolded my growing suspicion of Zionite and AE after a re-read and failed to acknowledge I was "content with my vote on Cyan" in the very same sentence. I mean, all I basically did day 1 was harass you. Then I ended up dead. It didn't seem very coincidental in my mind, harkening all the way back to our MTGNews days.
I really thought you were going to pull that out, Cyan. Well played.
From a town standpoint, great game by Az in particular, but ZDS was pivotal in the final hours as well.
Oh, I intentionally left the Cyan part unbolded. That's when I knew I was experiencing confirmation bias and should probably look at the situation again.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Just in case it wasn't clear before, Xyre, I tip my hat to you for the flavor in this game. The roles are so clearly thought out, and tons of fun and humorous. Very impressive.
That having been said, it is really hard not to have a raging ego when 4 roles in a single game are based on you.
In the other game thread, it seems like basically all of the role information is in the thread on Day 2, and the town is using it to take the game apart. But I could be misunderstanding.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I also agree with him that posting restrictions suck. In almost every circumstance. They add no depth or content to the game, typically just cause pointless distractions, and mostly just feel like the Mod wanting to toy with some unfortunate player. A scum ESPECIALLY should not ever have a posting restriction. Xyre did a good job with giving Ged an incentive to RP(not that Ged really needs one anyway, he loves RPing), but ultimately, PRs still suck.
I honestly think that, if a game is going to feature role(s) with posting restrictions(or even the possibility of them, such as what Seppel's role could do), the Mod should disclose this before the game starts. I love Xyre's games and was mostly impressed with the players chosen for this game, but I don't think I would have signed up if I knew that the game would feature posting restrictions.
Just a few quick things to say, some of which I've already said in spectator chat:
I had the chance to win the game for the town, and messed it up because I was having some issues in Real Life, and other games were pissing me off. So between May 10th and 11th, I was doing train of thought posts instead of what I normally do: Re-read my other posts and make sure I'm not contradicting myself. Unfortunately train of thought posts don't work out well when you're pissed off and stressed out. I was upset about being a cop that was basically a vanilla townie, and for some reason I wasn't seeing the full picture when it came to Cyan. I could have made this a flawless townie victory by voting for Cyan in post 978. A_E would have hammered him in his next post. I got caught up in the fact that the only reason I had a town read on Iso was if he could use his shot and tried to win the game by PoE only using his ability. That day, A_E could have had his ability proven, Iso could have had his ability proven, but I kept forgetting that Iso's death wouldn't give me my ability. And of course, Cyan's cool tone throughout his posts made him look a lot better than a raving lunatic who was throwing suspicion on everyone alive in game at that point. I played my absolute best town game in history up until May 10th. Before that, I was completely spot on with Zionite catch early as heck on D1 (Something I'd never done before,) called Seppel's alignment, was originally right about it being okay for the Chroma Killer to live past that day, realized super late that Axel's death needed to happen because he was so defeatist after being called out by Az and not having a good claim. If I would have kept my head on straight, we would have had a flawless game, even without a cop investigation.
That being said: To me, that is one of the worst cop roles to put in this game. The lynch of 5/12 players keeps it from being able to investigate, PLUS there was a Governor who could stop the lynch of a townie, making it 6/12 players that couldn't be lynched D1 to give me a N1 investigation. Granted, most mislynches happen D1 and Xyre couldn't take into account Az's great play, but still having only a 50/50 shot of getting an investigation with the chances going down every day sucks when there are 4/12 scum.
To the living players:
@Cyan: Absolutely amazing play. It was awesome reading your scum chat and watching how crafty you were in creating your false claim and using your abilities. Spot on job getting Az to change his mind about me. He went from "WoLG is town, the scum is either ZDS or Cyan and I just confirmed it's not ZDS, so gg town!" to lynching the claimed cop that is a "often mislynched player for poor wording" based on...poor wording. I was never quite sure about your alignment because with how weak my role is, a 1 shot cop add in seemed fair. But once you claimed that one of your shots were watcher, it was a done deal. I'm not sure why people didn't pick up on the "Town Cop and Town Name Cop" being dead and you claiming two investigative abilities.
@ZDS: Your play change from the first day to the last was a complete phoenix. You went from defeatism about being run up on crappy logic to playing a very pro-town game. I was on the fence about you mostly because of the defeatism and some of your wording, and was never cemented in a read on you. I think this is because I haven't played with you in a long time and forgot about your playstyle.
@Iso: This game gave me a lot of insight about how you look at the game. I would have played your role completely differently, ensuring my death at some point, but in the end it was unnecessary. Good job on making the right choice in the end game.
@A_E: I can definitely see why other players billed you as an often mislynched player. You're as bad at wording things as I am, and you hardcore lurked your way through the game. If I wasn't letting myself be influenced by other players saying it was normal play for you, you were second on my scumlist behind Zionite. Even reading the thread after I died and knew your alignment, you were coming off way scummier than Cyan.
___________________________________
@Az: Freaking great game. Not much more that I can say besides that. You called out pretty much everyones alignments on Day 1, and if I wasn't having such a rough time in RL, I'm sure you wouldn't have lynched me. Definitely amazing.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
This is interesting. Because you indeed were 'super obvious town with a bullet' for most of the game. Your posts were just unbelievably(and for you, uncharacteristically) clean, methodical, and efficient. You honed in on Zionite with ease, etc. You were the person that we tried to NK N2, because we assumed Az would continue to be protected(obviously we had no way of knowing that Ged's role would just let him protect everybody at the same time). And then at some point you just like..became unhinged, and it was easy to paint your earlier posts in a scummy light because of your later posts. I'm still curious what happened to you.
Someone posting in red. CropCircles smartly noted that Seppel used red in that rainbow he added to his "VLA" post.
Let me be clear that I'm not singling you out for this by any means. In my experience, people in general tend after games (and, sometimes, during, as zinda can attest) to judge the setup more negatively if they lost, which can be irritating to the mod. And definitely Greenwood was an exceptional case, and one deserving of all the criticism it received.
I appreciate the criticisms, but I want to emphasize that these roles aren't quite as strong as that. Ged offsets two kills on other people, but he is almost guaranteed to die for it. Az requires additional information to effectively use his ability, and if he goes for it too early he could just trip on his own laces by not checking a name beforehand. And Iso has to die before he can use his kill, and after he claims/implies such, the only way he's going to die is if he's lynched, so his role only really serves to offset town mistakes, rather than mitigate them completely.
(The day ability thing was a problem, and I'd say is the one big screw-up in the setup. It's certainly something I would have caught if I wasn't being so scrupulous in maintaining PM formatting and had instead used my usual ability-keys. Mea culpa.)
But aside from that, could there have been tweaks? Sure, and I noted and admitted such. But I don't think it's fair to say the game was unbalanced because it could have been tweaked. It's that sentiment that bothers me, especially after a game that was mostly defined by how players played than by the roles.
Ah, Ged, that was an example where I didn't think it would be a problem after I made one change, but then proceeded to not consider the implications. Originally he was just a bodyguard who survived the first kill, until he got an upgrade to address Asian's balancing concerns. But then I didn't appreciate the interaction between the two. I still think it's not quite as abusive as it seems, depending on how random factors went, but I agree it could be tweaked reasonably. I do wish I had formatted his PM to require him to maintain his PR even after he absorbs a kill.
It was probably inevitable that Seppel would misuse his role, but I didn't expect that combination of smilie and unfortunate circumstance. :wince:
Re: Void/CC - I counted that toward mafia inasmuch as it was a role that could confuse the town (I listed that role on the player list as hitman/survivor/craziness). The entire thing is a red herring, but I felt (and still feel, in all honesty) it's a valid test of whether the town is considering why players do what they do. In that case, even if Rumpel played crazy, my hope was people would see he wasn't a collaborator, if that makes sense.
Re: Zionite - the reason Zionite is nice in the original design is because he gets his results at the beginning of the night, so the mafia if they're planning ahead can rolecop somebody and then confirm whether they're worth shooting that following night. (Which, compared to a regular rolecop, means he gets a night headstart.) But it didn't matter because Zionite forgot about the way the role worked and then died.
One of the things this game did was confirm to me that fanciful ability writing doesn't work in PM formatting, because it's never quite clear what abilities require. Which isn't to say that my normal austere mode is much better, but at least there it's clear "this is what you do, this is when you do it, this is what you get".
Re: Posting restrictions - I included that role in the hopes someone would try to imitate one of the famous crazy posters. Too bad CC was playing under a pseudonym, because that would be an easy (and interesting) person to imitate. But that's one of the big tricks with posting restrictions, eh? If they are more "roleplaying suggestions" than "you can't post like X", they don't really work for certain people over another.
In retrospect, I should have remembered Ozone and rerolled Zionite. (As I mentioned in the QT, I rerolled the role distribution only once, when I decided forcing Az to be Azrael would have been weird.)
But I stuck with posting restrictions for three reasons, despite my experience in Ozone, and that was because: 1) I'm still a Colosseum person at heart and like the idea of roleplaying-for-fun; 2) roleplaying is a gamble, but when it pays off - for real or not - it works beautifully, as Redux 1 demonstrated; and 3) I thought the two I included were too interesting to forfeit.
Re: the cop - What can I say, I hate cops. So I adapted the role to give the town a comeback mechanism - if the town plays badly early, they can have an investigation or two to smooth things out. And of the six roles that don't pay out on lynches, three of them are mafia, one of them is the cop itself, one of them is also a comeback mechanism/offsets the cost of its lynch (Iso), and one of them is a neutral who has to be lynched twice (which I hoped would give the town a bit of pause, because double-life scum I think aren't really balanced most of the time).
I think such a role would be better suited to regular games as well, because it always seems like a cop either does nothing (and throws off the balance) or sets off a string of easy lynches (and throws off the balance). At least here its abuse potential is limited.
(Though I can't claim too much credit for the role, as it's akin to the cop from Matrix Mafia. Which, along with the Cat and Iso's role, makes three roles in this game that were akin to roles from Matrix, which I found amusing when I first realized that.)
On flavor - I did have fun writing the flavor for this game. Of course, the fact that I still had to be creative on deadline made it a little less productive, as always, but allowing myself to just goof off rather than stick to a (sometimes uncomfortable) seriousness made it overall more interesting for me. Hopefully, people enjoyed the unserious flavor.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I have got to stop being so self-concious about my play when I am a Neutral or Scum.
Yep
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Actually, I hate RPing most of the time. If it's entirely on my terms, I'm friggin down (the one example of this I can think of ended up referenced in this game). But being forced to RP is just a pain in the butt.
I wonder if there's a way to do PRs where you get to let the victi... er, role recipient choose the PR for themselves. I do so love RP when the player is down, but if they are not down, they are REALLY not down and it kills a lot of their fun.
I'm not gonna weigh in on whether the setup was balanced or not before I get a chance to take a better look at it, but I will say I think my role was pretty ridiculously good, especially in the hands of someone like me who's very unlikely to get NKed before using the first protect. If you don't let the clique grow from night to night, it's fine though. I love the "bodyguard with extra life" role.
I was finding it hard to get back into the groove of the game, and usually had to make posts very quickly without thinking about it as much as I normally do. Nevertheless, I was playing with a townie mindset. The only reason I killed Seppel was because the poor bastard gave me some red to work with, and I figured that even if killing scum was the plan, knocking off a townie couldn't hurt in case the scum proved hard to catch. I also never lied about my roll, BTW, I'm assuming you were referring to Void.
Also, I was right about Cyan.
I greatly regret replacing out of this game. As soon as I was out, I started getting a lot less hours at work, and quickly found myself with a fair bit of extra time. I ended up keeping up with the game the entire time, and I really do think I had a good shot at recovering in day 2.
But at least my T/S list on day 1 was 100% correct, even if I didn't have the time to drive any lynches.
Definitely would have made things more interesting, if you stuck around.
Your connection to Axel/Zionite did turn out to be bunk. On the other hand, we did figure out that you were the probable killer of Seppel, so...
Plus, Void lying about his rolename.
So he WAS a Cyan Hitman.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
One of the reasons I left mafia in the first place is that I got lynched a lot from poor wording. Before this game, I had only ever won two games on this site: Hollywood mafia and Code Geass mafia. Only one of those was I actually alive in the endgame. (I'm not sure about any other sites because I don't remember my log in info, or what other sites I played on.)
I even made a few posts in the mafia theory thread back in 09 or 07 about how I regularly get lynched and manage to avoid NK's because of my scummy sounding posts.
In my mind, and in verbal debates, I make perfect sense. I also tend to write very well in a collegiate and professional forum, but for some reason when it comes to mafia I can't properly articulate my logic and thought patterns.
One of the reasons I decided to come back was I have a job now that allows me time to post (major issue over the past few years) and I also have the time to write a post, wait a few mins, then read it out loud to make sure I'm saying exactly what I should be saying. For the past week or so, I've just been posting without re-reading and it's not worked out very well for me.
It got me lynched in this game, and caused issues in ongoing games.
It's kind of weird though. When I can tell someone is being too calculated or re-reading their posts too much, it reads as scum to me. Train-of-thought posts read as town. But for me, train of thought reads to me as scum, and my calculated posts read as town. (I like re-reading my games to see how I look, and I thought this was my best game by far.)
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yes.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
So for those curious, I played my role the way I did for a few reasons. The first goal was to attempt to get Nightkilled by spftclaiming town Daykiller/catching scum. When that didn't work, I attempted to ensure my survival to the endgame with my fullclaim because I was confident in my ability to make the right choice in the end. So...:toot:
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You should read my last comment in the spectator thread. I wanted to kick Iso when he started down the "Oh, I should read DYH's posts" and bolded my growing suspicion of Zionite and AE after a re-read and failed to acknowledge I was "content with my vote on Cyan" in the very same sentence. I mean, all I basically did day 1 was harass you. Then I ended up dead. It didn't seem very coincidental in my mind, harkening all the way back to our MTGNews days.
I really thought you were going to pull that out, Cyan. Well played.
From a town standpoint, great game by Az in particular, but ZDS was pivotal in the final hours as well.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That having been said, it is really hard not to have a raging ego when 4 roles in a single game are based on you.
In the other game thread, it seems like basically all of the role information is in the thread on Day 2, and the town is using it to take the game apart. But I could be misunderstanding.
Not the other way around. :sadpanda:
is ok
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Fixed that for you?
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981