Actually fade, there are three people who know the full story behind orb, and you are not one of them. There was more than that. Actually, a mistake by the host and a slip of information caused the entire game to be essentially hacked. That was so awesome, and I regret none of it.
I did say that D&D was rough, did I not? (I do not think I checked it, honestly.)
I should add my mysteriously disappearing game to the list, as it had no real boundaries and whatnot. It also didnt have any mafia, but it worked until it... uh, disappeared.. If anyone tries to run that sort of thing, I would advise against it. If they persisted, I would hunt them down and smack some sense into them. In other news, I plan on running that game again.
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Ah, the disappearing game. What was I again? A farmer who tried to become a Doctor, I think. Strange times....
On Specialties: I don't think I agree with Azrael that the purpose should be (or at least partly be) to reward well designed/balanced games or games with excellent flavor/storyline. If it has any purpose it's to identify games with such ususual gameplay/mechanics that they differ significantly from the basic mafia game. Because (A) Some people may not wish to play in a game that changes the basic rules too much (so it's not playing "mafia" anymore) and/or (B) it might not be suitable for beginners.
I tend to think that's not necessarily a reason to keep those kind of games in a separate que. If it was all one que we'd theoretically still have 2 "Normal" games going at the same time for the people not interested in a wildly different game, and for beginners. Now, if everyone started making wild/different games and started limiting the players to "experienced-only" we might have to change things, but I don't think that would really happen. There will always be people who want to play the basic game, I think--fancy rules and roles don't necessarily make the game better.
What I most dislike is the attempt to "rate" games and then put the "best" games into this special que. That smacks of elitism or something to me. I don't like the idea we'd be saying (either directly or implicitly) that one person's game wasn't as good as another person's. And that's not a criticism of Vecna's (or anyone's) ability to "rate" a game, I'm just not sure we should be doing it.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I also want to avoid getting into the trap of rewarding certain types of games without some justification as to why those are positive. What I would like is some kind of "mission statement," so that some time in the future, we can reassess the specialty queue and see if it achieved what we wanted it to achieve. If the only goal is to encourage games with "characteristic X" or "characteristic Y," then of course we'll achieve that purpose by making a specialty queue that requires those characteristics. And it might actually hurt us in the long run if everyone's just trying to "out-specialty" each other so they can be run first.
But if our goal was instead, for example, to encourage fun and challenging games that try to push the boundaries of the traditional Mafia game, then we can later make an assessment about whether the specialty games were truly fun and challenging. Or if our goal was to encourage games that are more suitable for a large group of "advanced" players, then that would also give us a basis for evaluation later on. I only want to make sure that there's a strong justification for having such games, rather than something like encouraging novelty for the sake of novelty. So if we later decide that the system's not working, we have an idea of what direction we need to take.
As for Axelrod's comment about "elitism," it seems to me that there are already several (many?) players who feel that way about the current system.
@Axel-Well, if you frame mafia in terms of an addiction, then specialty games are to regular mafia what crack is to marijuana. Once you reach a certain tolerance point, you need something with a little extra potency to achieve the same effect as when you were first introduced.
It's not elitism, just the search for something with a little more kick. Some people prefer that, some people won't. Different things make different people happy. But under this system, we'll all be able to choose what we want, instead of having to play the hand that's dealt us by indiscriminately shoving everything into a normal queue.
(I do not endorse the use of mind-altering substances, including cannabis. It's just a good analogy.)
EDIT: We could also consider adding an "overall effect" category on a scale of 1 to 5, to eliminate the danger of people trying to "out-specialty" each other.
I don't see why a game like D&D Alignment would be deserving of a specialty slot: it was poorly designed and didn't have goos flavor. The theme was not good, and at least one of the roles was broken all to bits (the necromancer role). This is the exact reason why the other four categories that Az brought up are necessary considerations. A game needs to score in ALL of the categories before it should be considered as a priority game in the specialty slot.
Elitism is something I don't think can really be avoided, regardless of what system we use, as long as we acknowledge that some games really are better than others. On the other hand, having a slot reserved for games that are anticipated to be better, that are only ever run one at a time, that everyone gets a chance to sign up for irrespective of the other games they're in on the site (like the system we have now) allows for people to rely on always having a chance to play in one of the more interesting games eventually, without having to worry too much about getting into an uninteresting or badly designed game, and thus feel like they're wasting their time.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I think I will cut off specialty submissions for the moment (with Xyre's current idea being the last).
We should probably work the specialty stuff out, or at least adopt a system (the points one temporarily) officially before we continue.
I would vote in favor of Az's idea.
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*retains composure on getting under the wire*
The only (minor) problem that I see is that, because a specialty game will happen sooner, it might cause a relative influx of specialty games that are special for added consideration. Of course, that would also lead to more creativity, which can't hurt the system.
Please leave personal matters to pms. And respond to mine or get on aim damn you
So I assume that means we automatically win the vote for the new specialty system (worst it can go is 2v2, which I break in my favor, obv).
I'll go copy it to the official place.
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I'm starting a motion to ban WoLG for some of the worst play in a mafia game, evar.
Any game that ever tries a mechanic anything like that ever again must be rejected.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
I do not examine normal games. This is a problem, but I do also want to get into playing again. This is why I recommend personally test any game one makes, and also asking any mafia councilperson for balancing/checking.
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So I assume that means we automatically win the vote for the new specialty system (worst it can go is 2v2, which I break in my favor, obv).
I'll go copy it to the official place.
Well, there goes the purpose of having a discussion on the matter.
It IS voted in, and Azrael and I both did agree to use 1-7 (8 is unnecessary based on its wording.)
I was checking someone's game just now, I will go edit it in.
What was there to discuss, the majority wanted it, and even people not asked for opinions stated that they were in favor of this.
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Really, something needs to be done about everyone in WDM2. It isn't just WOLG, either; Azrael and, to some extent, Armlx (we don't need you to tell us that spamming is going on!), among others, are guilty of ++ing.
What was there to discuss, the majority wanted it, and even people not asked for opinions stated that they were in favor of this.
Have you been reading the thread really? There is still a large segment of the playerbase (and possibly a majority) that has voiced disagreement with having a specialty queue at all. This strikes me as being very much of a "quick fix" without really addressing underlying issues.
Not wanting to seem like a flame, but why is Venca even on this council? I've never seen Vecna in a game, only in the council thread/sign-up thread, being really haphazardly fixing things/flaming people.
What I'm trying to say is. Impeach: Vecna :tongue3:
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What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
fade, who besides you and Axel have disagreed with this?
There have been many people who have disagreed with the need to separate specialty games from normal games, either in thread or out of thread. People have disagreed for a long time for various reasons, such as the confusion resulting from the 2 Normal/1 Specialty rule, the "2 games at a time" rule, the lack of a listed queue, the slowness of the normal queue, etc., not to mention the general objection that there is no need for distinction (nor were there specific criteria).
When I first officially opened the question on post #72 of this thread, there were many instant responses agreeing that there was no need for a specialty, included responses from people like Azrael and Puzzle. Since then, Azrael has given a new proposal, which has also met instant responses of "that sounds good." Many earlier objectors have not changed their mind, though, and the recent responses strike me as casual agreement without any real discussion of the matter.
I asked the question of what the justification for such a specialty queue was, including asking for a specific goal we hope to achieve with it so that we can later evaluate whether it has accomplished what it was meant to achieve. Rather than receiving an answer or raising discussion, it was met with a self-fulfilling goal.
I still wonder what the need for such a queue is. Are players very unhappy with the quality of the Normal games here that there must be a rating system for games?
Quote from Azrael »
*sigh*
Forum drama...
*exits thread*
You can treat it as drama if you want, but my goal is to serve the Mafia-playing community. So far, I don't think it's been served well enough, and I don't think we will be able to serve it well without actually addressing particular issues.
You can treat it as drama if you want, but my goal is to serve the Mafia-playing community. So far, I don't think it's been served well enough, and I don't think we will be able to serve it well without actually addressing particular issues.
That was directed more at the thread in general, not you specifically.
EDIT: I think the rubric explained the kind of games that we were looking for fairly well. The purpose of encouraging those games would be to offer the community a broader range of games to participate in. Not to create games that would necessarily be "more fun", or "more interesting", but to enable users to join games which are best suited to them personally.
Different players at different stages in their playing careers enjoy different types of games.
I am logically opposed to assigning a strict point system for the games (which is not what we voted for. We voted for the 8 rules az suggested before that, just in case there was confusion.)
Unfortunately, nobody has come forward with a better system, but I will refrain from deciding anything about the separation of specialty and normal games. Two games I have just accepted final versions of fit very nicely in the special nook, and I would not want to be run as normals.
BRB Dinner
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The purpose of encouraging those games would be to offer the community a broader range of games to participate in. Not to create games that would necessarily be "more fun", or "more interesting", but to enable users to join games which are best suited to them personally.
This is more of what I was looking for in terms of a "mission statement." This is a proposed purpose for the specialty slot, one which we can later use to evaluate the effectiveness of the specialty slot.
Personally, I think it's a positive and achievable goal, expressed that way. I'd like to hear from others about their opinion of this goal, particularly those who have previously disagreed with the specialty queue.
I stand by Fade on this one, for what it's worth. I'd rather have one queue for all non-newbie games and one for newbies if relevant.
The purpose of the queues should be to ensure :
1. that mods can mod on a fair basis, without being short-circuited by others, due to subjective appreciations (anyone evaluating setups has a subjective view, it's unavoidable).
True, but the process would be up for appeal. And directly quantifying the results, while not the most elegant system, helps eliminate bias.
Quote from Puzzle »
2. that players can play without having to wait for ages.
3. that players don't overcommit, which can be easily done by not allowing people to sign-up if they have a total of sign-ups + active games > 2.
The second would stay the same, no matter which system we were under.
The third doesn't seem to be much of a problem.
Quote from Puzzle »
Preferring specialties is a matter of personal orientations, but in a general manner, people will sign-up for whatever is available, as long as it's fun. The specialty status is not what determines the players' will to sign-up or not, it's the availability.
In economic terms, the system you're proposing would be a monopoly. Consumers would buy the product not because of preference or choice, but because it is the only option (on this site). What I'm suggesting is moving the process towards a capitalist style. We gauge demand, produce the products that we expect consumers will want, and provide it. If demand shifts, we shift with it. If demand increases, we run more games. If it decreases, we run less games. And throughout the entire process, the consumer remains in control, and remains our focus.
Quote from Puzzle »
Having a dedicated specialty queue doesn't do much to answer the players' needs, compared to having a common queue.
By definition, a specialty queue would serve player's needs, by offering them greater choice and control over what games they enter. The approach you favor is actually an attempt to concentrate on serving game mods by leveling the playing field. But I believe it does that at the expense of the players.
In any kind of business venture, when your ultimate object is to serve the customer, production issues have to take a backseat.
I have to side with Azrael on this. I like to be able to choose which game I'd like to play in. Some just really don't appeal to me, for example, I only signed up for X-Files mafia to get into a game, but much preferred to be in WD2. I wasn't really pumped about the idea of the X-Files one, but we weren't really left with much choice at the time. I backed out as a result of both that, and the unresponsive mod. I would hate to be forced into playing a game because that's where I fell in the queue, and then something else I was excited about came along.
I think having a specialty queue "forces" people to play games because it's not playing specialties only means playing less.
Huh???
Quote from Puzzle »
I see your point about offering more choice to players but I don't believe in an "elite" queue. It's a bit discouraging for some not to be taken in it and leaves the less balanced / less interesting games to new players. I am not comfortable with that.
We're not trying for an "elite" queue, just aiming to hit a different set of taste buds. McDonalds serves a purpose just as important as Olive Garden. We need both. We don't want just two McDonalds, because we'd all get fat and die, and we don't want just two Olive gardens, because we'd have to wait an hour for our food every day. We need to have both.
Also, life is discouraging. Competition can be discouraging. But they're also useful.
I mean, come on. There are schools that are banning dodgeball, because it's exclusionary and hurts people's feelings :rolleyes2:. Personally, I think our mod base is old enough that we don't need to treat them like children.
Quote from Puzzle »
Once again, if there is only one specialty running at a time, where is the choice you are advocating : playing or not playing, simply ?
You can choose specialty, normal, mini, or noob.
But as long as we have only 4 games, choice is going to be somewhat limited to "play or not play".
The difference is, under the one queue system, you have a "choice" between two normal games that are likely to be similar. In effect, there's no choice there at all.
If you have a choice between specialty and mini and normal, rather than normal, normal, and mini, then you do have a slightly better range to work within. Three choices, instead of two.
Quote from Puzzle »
I think having a common queue with :
- 2-3 games running at any given time
- 2-3 games in sign-up mode, waiting for clearance
- limiting players to sign up onto 2 games max
would be much fairer.
Fairer to who?
Players, or mods? And which should our focus be on, primarily?
Also, does all competition become "unfair" because judges have biased opinions? There are a lot of organizations that would need to be reorganized if we accepted that premise. The olympics, for one.
But as long as our standards are transparent, and are subject to review, competition can be fair.
Ok, I had not understood we were speaking of 4 games now. In that case, it seems fine, although effectively, it's more like 3 games available per person (experienced don't get newbies and newbies should avoid specialties).
Yep. "Three choices, instead of two."
:dance2:
Quote from Puzzle »
However, I still think that game sign-up should be made available earlier, with the limitation of 2 games per head. After all, the confirming stage is here for something.
We could. But that might make it a bit more difficult for newcomers to join up. *shrugs*
I'm pro-elitism in specialty game. I think that players who have played more ames of mafia and mods who are more familiar with the game lead to better games. I'm not saying that all newbs should be locked out of playing of the games, but people who haven't modded a game shouldn't be let into the list and there should be only a small number of people not familiar with mafia acctually playing.
Games on this site would be more fun if they weren't populated by n00bs and newbs. Specialty games should, Imo, weed out annoying misplays (vig who take out chunks of the town)/people who don't know how to play (me in mafia mafia)
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I'm not saying that all newbs should be locked out of playing of the games, but people who haven't modded a game shouldn't be let into the list and there should be only a small number of people not familiar with mafia acctually playing.
I hope you're referring to being allowed on the list to MOD a specialty game as opposed to playing in one. Only allowing people who have modded games to play in specialty games is overly elitist, and would result in the same 10 or 12 people tops playing in a specialty game.
I would agree that people should only be able to Mod a specialty game once they've modded a regular game/newbie/mini games, etc.
I hope you're referring to being allowed on the list to MOD a specialty game as opposed to playing in one. Only allowing people who have modded games to play in specialty games is overly elitist, and would result in the same 10 or 12 people tops playing in a specialty game.
I would agree that people should only be able to Mod a specialty game once they've modded a regular game/newbie/mini games, etc.
What I meant was people have have moded before can mod and new players would be discriminated against when sign-ups came. (Ala "Only two people who haven't played ever and five people total who I don't think are good at mafia (StevieT always mafia, even when he's town, disrupting to game?))
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Unless there are any current objections to Mini games, I think we should go ahead with it and establish the queue. As I mentioned before, I feel that all players in the current Normal queue should be given priority for it, and the sooner we set up the queue, the better (since it may take some time getting responses from those in the normal queue).
It looks like there are no longer any strong objections to the earlier proposed revision to the specialty queue signups, so that can go ahead for now, and we can revisit the topic in the future.
With the move to a subforum, and addition of newb games, there has been an influx of new players, I think we can now handle another mini. So I'm putting it out there to be discussed (I think this is the right thread sorry if it’s not.)
Errr, N00bish question..... How many games can one be in at once?
Cuz im in the seinfeld one currently.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
And which type of game is the seinfeld one? I'm so confused.
Thanks for all the help you guys.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I approve of starting another mini, but that's mostly because I'm only in one game at the moment (wasn't interested in joining clan mafia, missed signups for seinfeld). Also, it gets me closer to modding my own mini
Seems to be high demand at the moment, might as well abuse it while it lasts.
GOGO MINI! Yeah, there seems to be a high demand all right
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I have been trying to contact Azrael to discuss running another game (unsure of which type). (By trying to contact, I mean wondering why I never see him on AIM)
I think I know what puzzle meant, but I am confused. Restate and give reason please.
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I have been trying to contact Azrael to discuss running another game (unsure of which type). (By trying to contact, I mean wondering why I never see him on AIM)
I think I know what puzzle meant, but I am confused. Restate and give reason please.
Aim is for losers.
Sounds good to me. I think the new type should be "games designed by Azrael", personally.
I did say that D&D was rough, did I not? (I do not think I checked it, honestly.)
I should add my mysteriously disappearing game to the list, as it had no real boundaries and whatnot. It also didnt have any mafia, but it worked until it... uh, disappeared.. If anyone tries to run that sort of thing, I would advise against it. If they persisted, I would hunt them down and smack some sense into them. In other news, I plan on running that game again.
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On Specialties: I don't think I agree with Azrael that the purpose should be (or at least partly be) to reward well designed/balanced games or games with excellent flavor/storyline. If it has any purpose it's to identify games with such ususual gameplay/mechanics that they differ significantly from the basic mafia game. Because (A) Some people may not wish to play in a game that changes the basic rules too much (so it's not playing "mafia" anymore) and/or (B) it might not be suitable for beginners.
I tend to think that's not necessarily a reason to keep those kind of games in a separate que. If it was all one que we'd theoretically still have 2 "Normal" games going at the same time for the people not interested in a wildly different game, and for beginners. Now, if everyone started making wild/different games and started limiting the players to "experienced-only" we might have to change things, but I don't think that would really happen. There will always be people who want to play the basic game, I think--fancy rules and roles don't necessarily make the game better.
What I most dislike is the attempt to "rate" games and then put the "best" games into this special que. That smacks of elitism or something to me. I don't like the idea we'd be saying (either directly or implicitly) that one person's game wasn't as good as another person's. And that's not a criticism of Vecna's (or anyone's) ability to "rate" a game, I'm just not sure we should be doing it.
But if our goal was instead, for example, to encourage fun and challenging games that try to push the boundaries of the traditional Mafia game, then we can later make an assessment about whether the specialty games were truly fun and challenging. Or if our goal was to encourage games that are more suitable for a large group of "advanced" players, then that would also give us a basis for evaluation later on. I only want to make sure that there's a strong justification for having such games, rather than something like encouraging novelty for the sake of novelty. So if we later decide that the system's not working, we have an idea of what direction we need to take.
As for Axelrod's comment about "elitism," it seems to me that there are already several (many?) players who feel that way about the current system.
It's not elitism, just the search for something with a little more kick. Some people prefer that, some people won't. Different things make different people happy. But under this system, we'll all be able to choose what we want, instead of having to play the hand that's dealt us by indiscriminately shoving everything into a normal queue.
(I do not endorse the use of mind-altering substances, including cannabis. It's just a good analogy.)
EDIT: We could also consider adding an "overall effect" category on a scale of 1 to 5, to eliminate the danger of people trying to "out-specialty" each other.
Elitism is something I don't think can really be avoided, regardless of what system we use, as long as we acknowledge that some games really are better than others. On the other hand, having a slot reserved for games that are anticipated to be better, that are only ever run one at a time, that everyone gets a chance to sign up for irrespective of the other games they're in on the site (like the system we have now) allows for people to rely on always having a chance to play in one of the more interesting games eventually, without having to worry too much about getting into an uninteresting or badly designed game, and thus feel like they're wasting their time.
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We should probably work the specialty stuff out, or at least adopt a system (the points one temporarily) officially before we continue.
I would vote in favor of Az's idea.
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The only (minor) problem that I see is that, because a specialty game will happen sooner, it might cause a relative influx of specialty games that are special for added consideration. Of course, that would also lead to more creativity, which can't hurt the system.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Who's with me?
(not actually serious)
So I assume that means we automatically win the vote for the new specialty system (worst it can go is 2v2, which I break in my favor, obv).
I'll go copy it to the official place.
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Society demands justice!!!
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Any game that ever tries a mechanic anything like that ever again must be rejected.
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Well, there goes the purpose of having a discussion on the matter.
I was checking someone's game just now, I will go edit it in.
What was there to discuss, the majority wanted it, and even people not asked for opinions stated that they were in favor of this.
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Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Have you been reading the thread really? There is still a large segment of the playerbase (and possibly a majority) that has voiced disagreement with having a specialty queue at all. This strikes me as being very much of a "quick fix" without really addressing underlying issues.
What I'm trying to say is. Impeach: Vecna :tongue3:
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fade, who besides you and Axel have disagreed with this?
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Forum drama...
*exits thread*
There have been many people who have disagreed with the need to separate specialty games from normal games, either in thread or out of thread. People have disagreed for a long time for various reasons, such as the confusion resulting from the 2 Normal/1 Specialty rule, the "2 games at a time" rule, the lack of a listed queue, the slowness of the normal queue, etc., not to mention the general objection that there is no need for distinction (nor were there specific criteria).
When I first officially opened the question on post #72 of this thread, there were many instant responses agreeing that there was no need for a specialty, included responses from people like Azrael and Puzzle. Since then, Azrael has given a new proposal, which has also met instant responses of "that sounds good." Many earlier objectors have not changed their mind, though, and the recent responses strike me as casual agreement without any real discussion of the matter.
I asked the question of what the justification for such a specialty queue was, including asking for a specific goal we hope to achieve with it so that we can later evaluate whether it has accomplished what it was meant to achieve. Rather than receiving an answer or raising discussion, it was met with a self-fulfilling goal.
I still wonder what the need for such a queue is. Are players very unhappy with the quality of the Normal games here that there must be a rating system for games?
You can treat it as drama if you want, but my goal is to serve the Mafia-playing community. So far, I don't think it's been served well enough, and I don't think we will be able to serve it well without actually addressing particular issues.
That was directed more at the thread in general, not you specifically.
EDIT: I think the rubric explained the kind of games that we were looking for fairly well. The purpose of encouraging those games would be to offer the community a broader range of games to participate in. Not to create games that would necessarily be "more fun", or "more interesting", but to enable users to join games which are best suited to them personally.
Different players at different stages in their playing careers enjoy different types of games.
Unfortunately, nobody has come forward with a better system, but I will refrain from deciding anything about the separation of specialty and normal games. Two games I have just accepted final versions of fit very nicely in the special nook, and I would not want to be run as normals.
BRB Dinner
Celtic word for a computer spelling mistake.
SR
This is more of what I was looking for in terms of a "mission statement." This is a proposed purpose for the specialty slot, one which we can later use to evaluate the effectiveness of the specialty slot.
Personally, I think it's a positive and achievable goal, expressed that way. I'd like to hear from others about their opinion of this goal, particularly those who have previously disagreed with the specialty queue.
True, but the process would be up for appeal. And directly quantifying the results, while not the most elegant system, helps eliminate bias.
The second would stay the same, no matter which system we were under.
The third doesn't seem to be much of a problem.
In economic terms, the system you're proposing would be a monopoly. Consumers would buy the product not because of preference or choice, but because it is the only option (on this site). What I'm suggesting is moving the process towards a capitalist style. We gauge demand, produce the products that we expect consumers will want, and provide it. If demand shifts, we shift with it. If demand increases, we run more games. If it decreases, we run less games. And throughout the entire process, the consumer remains in control, and remains our focus.
By definition, a specialty queue would serve player's needs, by offering them greater choice and control over what games they enter. The approach you favor is actually an attempt to concentrate on serving game mods by leveling the playing field. But I believe it does that at the expense of the players.
In any kind of business venture, when your ultimate object is to serve the customer, production issues have to take a backseat.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Communism is monopolistic.
Huh???
We're not trying for an "elite" queue, just aiming to hit a different set of taste buds. McDonalds serves a purpose just as important as Olive Garden. We need both. We don't want just two McDonalds, because we'd all get fat and die, and we don't want just two Olive gardens, because we'd have to wait an hour for our food every day. We need to have both.
Also, life is discouraging. Competition can be discouraging. But they're also useful.
I mean, come on. There are schools that are banning dodgeball, because it's exclusionary and hurts people's feelings :rolleyes2:. Personally, I think our mod base is old enough that we don't need to treat them like children.
You can choose specialty, normal, mini, or noob.
But as long as we have only 4 games, choice is going to be somewhat limited to "play or not play".
The difference is, under the one queue system, you have a "choice" between two normal games that are likely to be similar. In effect, there's no choice there at all.
If you have a choice between specialty and mini and normal, rather than normal, normal, and mini, then you do have a slightly better range to work within. Three choices, instead of two.
Fairer to who?
Players, or mods? And which should our focus be on, primarily?
Also, does all competition become "unfair" because judges have biased opinions? There are a lot of organizations that would need to be reorganized if we accepted that premise. The olympics, for one.
But as long as our standards are transparent, and are subject to review, competition can be fair.
Yep. "Three choices, instead of two."
We could. But that might make it a bit more difficult for newcomers to join up. *shrugs*
Games on this site would be more fun if they weren't populated by n00bs and newbs. Specialty games should, Imo, weed out annoying misplays (vig who take out chunks of the town)/people who don't know how to play (me in mafia mafia)
I hope you're referring to being allowed on the list to MOD a specialty game as opposed to playing in one. Only allowing people who have modded games to play in specialty games is overly elitist, and would result in the same 10 or 12 people tops playing in a specialty game.
I would agree that people should only be able to Mod a specialty game once they've modded a regular game/newbie/mini games, etc.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Celtic word for a computer spelling mistake.
SR
Celtic word for a computer spelling mistake.
SR
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Cuz im in the seinfeld one currently.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
The answers you seek lie within.
And which type of game is the seinfeld one? I'm so confused.
Thanks for all the help you guys.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
[The Family]
Seems to be high demand at the moment, might as well abuse it while it lasts.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I think I know what puzzle meant, but I am confused. Restate and give reason please.
Celtic word for a computer spelling mistake.
SR
Aim is for losers.
Sounds good to me. I think the new type should be "games designed by Azrael", personally.