Hosting Rule: League players will not be allowed to host a league game, and league hosts will not be allowed to play in the same season they have hosted for.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yeah, the reason I'm not joining the League is because I'm interested in running mine hands-on, with a league mod riding shotgun. In that case, there could be a clear conflict of interest if a situation came up that could help/hurt a competitor of mine. If you're submitting a setup and then standing back, that problem goes away.
This is just a minor mistake in the posted rubric.
The currently listed "+1 point for each scum role or ability investigated" should read as "+2 points for each scum role or ability investigated." -The micro game, OT2R will be scored using this correction.
-Sorry for the error.
Also, as a clarification, this point bonus will be rewarded even when non-guilty results are obtained (from investigating a godfather, for example.)
This is just a minor mistake in the posted rubric.
The currently listed "+1 point for each scum role or ability investigated" should read as "+2 points for each scum role or ability investigated." -The micro game, OT2R will be scored using this correction.
-Sorry for the error.
Also, as a clarification, this point bonus will be rewarded even when non-guilty results are obtained (from investigating a godfather, for example.)
Hmm. Are we counting on judge and mod awards to balance out the scoring rubric a bit?
Looking it over, it seems like the townies have a much higher scoring potential, if you disregard judge and mod awards.
The most points a scum player can gain is 3 points, for surviving the game with a win. (One-time bonus). Their only other bonuses are 1 point bonuses for surviving and lynching townies.
A town player, however, gains 4 points for each successful scum lynch (easily 2-3 times per game), several other behavioral read and ability bonuses, and a 4 point bonus for winning the game. Granted, townies also have a greater chance of losing points, but it seems like the top performers in this system are inevitably going to be players who receive town roles most often.
Going off of O2TR, for instance, if I'm calculating this correctly, TCM will receive a grand total of 6 points for his surviving scum win, Shark Finnigan (town) will receive 4 points, and I'll receive a grand total of 2 points. That doesn't account for judge and mod awards, of course, but it still seems like the mafia have a really low potential for out-performing the town - even when they win the game.
Compare that to the results from C&B. It was yet another close game, but Gricky survived to the very last day and was still out-scored by half the town, some out-pacing him by a six-point margin, and an awful lot of townplayers wound up scoring in double-digits, 10, 11, 15 points. Compare that to my and TCM's piddly combined haul of eights points from winning O2TR...
Hmm. Are we counting on judge and mod awards to balance out the scoring rubric a bit?
Looking it over, it seems like the townies have a much higher scoring potential, if you disregard judge and mod awards.
The most points a scum player can gain is 3 points, for surviving the game with a win. (One-time bonus). Their only other bonuses are 1 point bonuses for surviving and lynching townies.
A town player, however, gains 4 points for each successful scum lynch (easily 2-3 times per game), several other behavioral read and ability bonuses, and a 4 point bonus for winning the game. Granted, townies also have a greater chance of losing points, but it seems like the top performers in this system are inevitably going to be players who receive town roles most often.
Going off of O2TR, for instance, if I'm calculating this correctly, TCM will receive a grand total of 6 points for his surviving scum win, Shark Finnigan (town) will receive 4 points, and I'll receive a grand total of 2 points. That doesn't account for judge and mod awards, of course, but it still seems like the mafia have a really low potential for out-performing the town - even when they win the game.
Compare that to the results from C&B. It was yet another close game, but Gricky survived to the very last day and was still out-scored by half the town, some out-pacing him by a six-point margin, and an awful lot of townplayers wound up scoring in double-digits, 10, 11, 15 points. Compare that to my and TCM's piddly combined haul of eights points from winning O2TR...
Az, I've forwarded your concern for the judges. I just want to make sure everything is clear instead of posting what could be a faulty answer.
@Az: I think you also get +3 in post game for having TCM survive to the end, so it's 5 for you. 5 for me for lynch and nightkill of me, and 7 for TCM. That's my initial thoughts.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
The most points a scum player can gain is 3 points, for surviving the game with a win. (One-time bonus). Their only other bonuses are 1 point bonuses for surviving and lynching townies.
Shark is correct, you are misreading that point bonus. It is +3 to each member of the scum team, per surviving member. So, for example, had you survived this game, you and TCM would have each received +6 for survival. As is, you will each receive +3 for TCM living.
Compare that to the results from C&B. It was yet another close game, but Gricky survived to the very last day and was still out-scored by half the town, some out-pacing him by a six-point margin, and an awful lot of townplayers wound up scoring in double-digits, 10, 11, 15 points.
Yes, teams are heavily rewarded for winning, even in close games, but that goes for both teams. -For example, at the end of C&B, we ran hypothetical numbers for what the scores would have been if a townie had been mislynched on the last day: and the result would have been Gricky scoring as many points as the highest scoring townie had scored with the town win, and a comparable distribution of scores otherwise for the rest of the winning team, which means the rubric is as balanced as possible (of course, this comparison was made with scores before judge bonuses were applied, since obviously that would be effected by exactly how the game ended and couldn't simply be calculated, though that wouldn't change the point balance).
Compare that to my and TCM's piddly combined haul of eights points from winning O2TR...
Well, yes, there is significantly less scoring potential overall in smaller games, but that is partially by design. While we wanted the micro to be an opportunity for winning players to get a decent score added to their records (or for a dominant winning team to get a good score), it was never meant to replace larger games or compete with them in potential high scores.
The most points a scum player can gain is 3 points, for surviving the game with a win. (One-time bonus). Their only other bonuses are 1 point bonuses for surviving and lynching townies.
Shark is correct, you are misreading that point bonus. It is +3 to each member of the scum team, per surviving member. So, for example, had you survived this game, you and TCM would have each received +6 for survival. As is, you will each receive +3 for TCM living.
Ah! Ok, that evens out the multiple high-scores potential pretty well then.
Just echoing the smaller scores from the Micros. It's not intended to be a substitute for good scores in larger games, but something you could use to round out a poor game.
Is it possible I could get some judge to send me an explanation as to my five points since I'm I think understandably rather detached from this league thing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
Is it possible I could get some judge to send me an explanation as to my five points since I'm I think understandably rather detached from this league thing.
How fast can we expect to get scores and reviews for OT2R Mafia
I can't put a precise timeline on all of this. The judges are currently doing re-reads of the game to be able to put together the most constructive comments that they can. Some have big weekends ahead of them and are trying to work diligently with everything in mind.
The scores are tied with the judges re-reads of the game. Judge awards will have to be added after the initial scores are tabulated. Again, there is no estimation on all this but I can guarantee that scores and comments will arrive much faster than it did for Checks & Balances.
How fast can we expect to get scores and reviews for OT2R Mafia
To add onto what Arnnaria said, it looks like all of us are trying to have notes ready by the end of this weekend. This is by no means set in stone; many of us are busy this week and/or weekend as he mentioned. I'm not willing to estimate the timetable on scoring yet either.
As Ganderin' Dan mentioned in the thread earlier he was V/LA for the weekend so he was not able to do his reread. Dan has two players: Void and SilverSihhe. He is working diligently to finish his re-read and get that stuff out ASAP. Again, we need to have all judges in the game to finish the notes up so they can hash out judge's awards points.
Again, I can't put a timeline on anything, but I will do my best to get things done as soon as possible.
Also, all judge reports should have been sent out. I will be adding these scores to the OP as well as statistics in Post # 2 ASAP.
***
Quick question on bookkeeping: Would the players like a running tally of all the players in the League as games progress, or would it be more advantageous to separate the list into "People with 1 game completed"; "People with 2 games completed"; etcetera?
Also, all judge reports should have been sent out. I will be adding these scores to the OP as well as statistics in Post # 2 ASAP.
***
Quick question on bookkeeping: Would the players like a running tally of all the players in the League as games progress, or would it be more advantageous to separate the list into "People with 1 game completed"; "People with 2 games completed"; etcetera?
1. Probably add beside the player name the # of games completed.
i.e. SharkFinnigan(2): +6; Azrael (1): +4; etc.
2. I was wondering if we can get a breakdown on scores? Like reasons, know how many judge awards/mod awards werre granted/distributed, etc.
***
In response to actual scores, I am intrigued how SS (lasted longer) scored lower than AE. I need to look back at the rubric to make sure I didn't miss something, but I am interested to see why.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
+1 (D1: participated in Archmage Eternal mislynch)
+1 (N1: alive for night)
-1 (D2: left game without fulfilling wincon)
+3 (PG: The Cold Monarch survived)
Governor
-2 (D1: participated in Archmage Eternal mislynch)
+4 (D2: participated in Azrael lynch)
+0 (N2: was NKed)
+1 (PG: Judge Award)
+2 (PG: Mod Award)
Vanilla
-2 (D1: participated in Archmage Eternal mislynch)
+1 (D2: alive for Azrael lynch, no participation)
-3 (D3: lynched)
Goon (w/ Azrael)
+1 (N1: alive for night)
+1 (N2: alive for night)
+1 (D3: participated in SilverSihhe mislynch)
+3 (PG: The Cold Monarch survived)
+2 (PG: Judge Awards)
+2 (PG: Mod Award)
Vanilla
-2 (D1: participated in Archmage Eternal mislynch)
+4 (D2: participated in Azrael lynch)
-2 (D3: participated in SilverSihhe mislynch)
+1 (PG: Judge Award)
Cop
-1 (D1: alive for Archmage Eternal mislynch, no participation)
+0 (N1: was NKed first)
+2 (N1: investigated Azrael)
Point breakdown. KCC has been doing a fantastic job keeping these scores.
Point breakdowns have been added to the Original Post. Not as streamlined as I wish for it to be, so if anyone has alternate suggestions, please post them here.
Also, AlphaInsidious has requested to be added to the league.
Request to all League players - Like this post if you find the judge feedback to be especially helpful. Feel free to quote this post and add more if you have more than a /barn.
In addition, players who have received judge feedback, help us help you - is there a particular format you prefer to read your critique in? What areas do you want us to comment on the most?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Request to all League players - Like this post if you find the judge feedback to be especially helpful. Feel free to quote this post and add more if you have more than a /barn.
In addition, players who have received judge feedback, help us help you - is there a particular format you prefer to read your critique in? What areas do you want us to comment on the most?
Well, I found G_Dan's review greatly helpful, and his was in a format where he provided specific posts with notes about them in a quoted/spoilered box. Then he had a few paragraphs for summary beyond that.
I know that, speaking for myself, I'm always most interested in hearing about both my strengths (with specific examples of something I did in a game that was good, so I can emulate it) and my weaknesses (so I know what to improve on). The in-between stuff is interesting but usually less useful to me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This has been a rule for a while now.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If that is the case, then don't worry about my last post.
This is just a minor mistake in the posted rubric.
The currently listed "+1 point for each scum role or ability investigated" should read as "+2 points for each scum role or ability investigated." -The micro game, OT2R will be scored using this correction.
-Sorry for the error.
Also, as a clarification, this point bonus will be rewarded even when non-guilty results are obtained (from investigating a godfather, for example.)
Fixed changes to OP.
Since Kpaca never left the League of his own volition, we are readding him to the roster so he can continue to play in the League as he intended.
I am in the process of figuring out how many points were earned for him in Checks and Balances. I will add them to the OP when I find them.
Edit: Kpaca has been given the proper amount of points earned for Checks and Balances.
OT2R (and the League's Winter Break) are over.
Please like this post if you have the time and availability to participate in a Normal game in about two to three weeks.
Looking it over, it seems like the townies have a much higher scoring potential, if you disregard judge and mod awards.
The most points a scum player can gain is 3 points, for surviving the game with a win. (One-time bonus). Their only other bonuses are 1 point bonuses for surviving and lynching townies.
A town player, however, gains 4 points for each successful scum lynch (easily 2-3 times per game), several other behavioral read and ability bonuses, and a 4 point bonus for winning the game. Granted, townies also have a greater chance of losing points, but it seems like the top performers in this system are inevitably going to be players who receive town roles most often.
Going off of O2TR, for instance, if I'm calculating this correctly, TCM will receive a grand total of 6 points for his surviving scum win, Shark Finnigan (town) will receive 4 points, and I'll receive a grand total of 2 points. That doesn't account for judge and mod awards, of course, but it still seems like the mafia have a really low potential for out-performing the town - even when they win the game.
Compare that to the results from C&B. It was yet another close game, but Gricky survived to the very last day and was still out-scored by half the town, some out-pacing him by a six-point margin, and an awful lot of townplayers wound up scoring in double-digits, 10, 11, 15 points. Compare that to my and TCM's piddly combined haul of eights points from winning O2TR...
Az, I've forwarded your concern for the judges. I just want to make sure everything is clear instead of posting what could be a faulty answer.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Shark is correct, you are misreading that point bonus. It is +3 to each member of the scum team, per surviving member. So, for example, had you survived this game, you and TCM would have each received +6 for survival. As is, you will each receive +3 for TCM living.
Yes, teams are heavily rewarded for winning, even in close games, but that goes for both teams. -For example, at the end of C&B, we ran hypothetical numbers for what the scores would have been if a townie had been mislynched on the last day: and the result would have been Gricky scoring as many points as the highest scoring townie had scored with the town win, and a comparable distribution of scores otherwise for the rest of the winning team, which means the rubric is as balanced as possible (of course, this comparison was made with scores before judge bonuses were applied, since obviously that would be effected by exactly how the game ended and couldn't simply be calculated, though that wouldn't change the point balance).
Void: 14 Points
Voxxicus: 14 Points
Cyan: 13 Points
Cyouni: 13 Points
Archmage Eternal: 11 Points
Ahylis: 9 Points
Gricky Timmick: 9 Points
Infectious Baloth: 8 Points
MandersHex: 8 Points
SilverSihhe: 8 Points
Raging Levine: 6 Points
RobRoy: 6 Points
Kpaca: 5 Point
Wheat Grinder: 4 Points
Dancing Mad: 3 Points
SharkFinnigan: 1 Point
Reya Cookiebringer: 0 Points
The Ice Man: 0 Point
Death Joey: -2 Points
Emo Pinata: -3 Points
Foxlet: -4 Points
Jobie: -7 Points
Gricky Timmick: 14 Points
Ahylis: 9 Points
RobRoy: 9 Points
Archmage Eternal: 7 Points
Cyan: 7 Points
SharkFinnigan: 5 Point
Infectious Baloth: 4 Points
MandersHex: 4 Points
Reya Cookiebringer: 4 Points
SilverSihhe: 4 Points
Void: 4 Points
Dancing Mad: 3 Points
Voxxicus: 3 Points
Cyouni: 2 Points
Raging Levine: 2 Points
Kpaca: 1 Point
Wheat Grinder: 0 Points
The Ice Man: 0 Point
Death Joey: -2 Points
Emo Pinata: -3 Points
Foxlet: -4 Points
Jobie: -7 Points
Well, yes, there is significantly less scoring potential overall in smaller games, but that is partially by design. While we wanted the micro to be an opportunity for winning players to get a decent score added to their records (or for a dominant winning team to get a good score), it was never meant to replace larger games or compete with them in potential high scores.
Ah! Ok, that evens out the multiple high-scores potential pretty well then.
Everything sounds pretty good now that I understand how that clause actually works.
PM Sent.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I can't put a precise timeline on all of this. The judges are currently doing re-reads of the game to be able to put together the most constructive comments that they can. Some have big weekends ahead of them and are trying to work diligently with everything in mind.
The scores are tied with the judges re-reads of the game. Judge awards will have to be added after the initial scores are tabulated. Again, there is no estimation on all this but I can guarantee that scores and comments will arrive much faster than it did for Checks & Balances.
To add onto what Arnnaria said, it looks like all of us are trying to have notes ready by the end of this weekend. This is by no means set in stone; many of us are busy this week and/or weekend as he mentioned. I'm not willing to estimate the timetable on scoring yet either.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Oh, the scoring is done, other than the judge awards. So, once the reviews are finished, that will be too.
I'll try to have mine done before, but it could reasonably be after.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
As Ganderin' Dan mentioned in the thread earlier he was V/LA for the weekend so he was not able to do his reread. Dan has two players: Void and SilverSihhe. He is working diligently to finish his re-read and get that stuff out ASAP. Again, we need to have all judges in the game to finish the notes up so they can hash out judge's awards points.
Again, I can't put a timeline on anything, but I will do my best to get things done as soon as possible.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
The Cold Monarch: +10
SharkFinnigan: +5
Azrael: +4
Voxxicus: +1
Void: +1
Archmage Eternal: -3
SilverSihhe: -4
Also, all judge reports should have been sent out. I will be adding these scores to the OP as well as statistics in Post # 2 ASAP.
***
Quick question on bookkeeping: Would the players like a running tally of all the players in the League as games progress, or would it be more advantageous to separate the list into "People with 1 game completed"; "People with 2 games completed"; etcetera?
1. Probably add beside the player name the # of games completed.
i.e. SharkFinnigan(2): +6; Azrael (1): +4; etc.
2. I was wondering if we can get a breakdown on scores? Like reasons, know how many judge awards/mod awards werre granted/distributed, etc.
***
In response to actual scores, I am intrigued how SS (lasted longer) scored lower than AE. I need to look back at the rubric to make sure I didn't miss something, but I am interested to see why.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Point breakdown. KCC has been doing a fantastic job keeping these scores.
I intend to try and push them out ASAP, but weekends are rough for me.
I said that all reviews have been sent out. However, SilverSihhe's review is still being put together by G_D. I apologize for the miscommunication.
Also, statistics by KCC have been added to Post #2.
At least I feel like I'm improving at the game....
Is there anyway to sign up now or is it fully closed?Never mind, I'm dumb. PM'd Arnn.I'm sending you a PM.
EtR has requested to be added to the league.
Point breakdowns have been added to the Original Post. Not as streamlined as I wish for it to be, so if anyone has alternate suggestions, please post them here.
Also, AlphaInsidious has requested to be added to the league.
This pleases me.
Mafia League Current Standings
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Mafia spectrumized!
In addition, players who have received judge feedback, help us help you - is there a particular format you prefer to read your critique in? What areas do you want us to comment on the most?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well, I found G_Dan's review greatly helpful, and his was in a format where he provided specific posts with notes about them in a quoted/spoilered box. Then he had a few paragraphs for summary beyond that.
I know that, speaking for myself, I'm always most interested in hearing about both my strengths (with specific examples of something I did in a game that was good, so I can emulate it) and my weaknesses (so I know what to improve on). The in-between stuff is interesting but usually less useful to me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player