On Shark: Breaking RVS with a terrible, as-scummy-as-it-gets post is his M.O.. It's not a good reason to case him solely based on that, as Ataghan players should remember.
I agree with this statement, which is why I'm not voting him yet. I think every game I've read with Shark in it he's done this.
While not being fond of meta, I feel it's important to point out that hawk, as scum, defended Iso for the majority of Steins;Gate's Day 2 despite knowing he was the Town Cop, so to believe hawk and Eron are scumbuddies based his defense of Eron and his relative inexperience is incorrect.
Hey I haven't had the time to pay any attention to this game, sorry. I'm out of town for easter and I probably won't get the chance to do any reading until Monday night.
I'm pretty new. This is my second forum game of mafia and I was Mafia with TMCT and cyouni in Steins;Gate. I was so bad that I confused the town with my god awful plays which gave us the win.
The extent to which you're defending Eron unnecessarily coupled with your relative inexperience makes me suspect you of being Eron's scumbuddy.
While not being fond of meta, I feel it's important to point out that hawk, as scum, defended Iso for the majority of Steins;Gate's Day 2 despite knowing he was the Town Cop, so to believe hawk and Eron are scumbuddies based his defense of Eron and his relative inexperience is incorrect.
Well this is his second game. He has no meta.
@cyouni. Did you guys talk to 7hawk about his scum play?
But you weren't questioning his vote. You were questioning his FOS. So I don't see how you could be fine with him using the FOS instead of unvoting and voting when the vote he had down was a random one.
I was questioning why he was FOSing SS while not voting anyone else, especially given that he had found something that "reflected poorly" on Shark. The fact that he was not only voting someone at the time but voting Shark at the time nullified that.
It's not a 180, it's a 90. I went to thinking it was scummy to thinking it was null, because there's no way to discern whether or not hawk would have been seriously voting Shark if he hadn't RVS-voted him beforehand.
I was just getting initial gut responses from the reactions and your two just struck me as the most unsettling. But looking back and you'll see in a second, I do like you a bit better as town.
So you've determined that you have reads on several people, but then you turn around and attribute the majority of them to gut. What about Hawks posts were unsettling? Also, you don't explain later why you believe Hawk to now be town.
I wasn't sure on 77hawks first post, but your response to him doesn't seem like scumbuddy-scumbuddy interaction.
1. Realistically, I cannot know if it's a scumslip unless EtR flipped scum.
2. I like your responses better.
3. I like how you derived your 4-scum theory than EtR. You methodically derived it based on your knowledge on common setups. As you will see in a second, EtR does not.
4. Since when is the use of 2 "I"s scummy?
1. You still haven't even defined what you think I did that was a scum slip. You keep alluding to something but haven't actually demonstrated anything.
2. In the ~90 posts we've had this game you have called TCM scum and town but you have not provided any reasoning for either. Each time it's been something to the effect of "he scumslipped" or "I like your responses better" or "This is similar to Voxx in a different game and he was town." How can your reasoning for calling a player town be based on another player in a different game?
3. Overexplanation.
1. ... I'm pretty sure it was clear, but let's try again for clarity's sake. You slipped on how many members of the scumteam are. Unlike TCM (who validated based on experience), your "assumption" on the 4 member team comes from the rules. I've quoted the rules and it fails to even support your claim and you going to the point to quote the rules to 77hawk makes me seriously believe you misread the rules and assumed that just because you saw the 4 in 4 days and thought it said 4 scum or something like that.
2. Town behavior. Town wants to help move the game along and progress it. Scum will durdle all day.
3. ???
There's a difference between using the rules to help and just blatantly JUST using the rules.
This makes no sense whatsoever.
Now read the rules again. There is NOTHING stated in the rules that says there are 4 chimes. TCM used the rules to support his case, but obviously not entirely. EtR's post looks terrible and I think he's scum because of it.
Please demonstrate HOW my post is terrible. All you've done here is add some adjectives and nouns together and called it a case.
[/quote]
Going back to new point 1, your post contained nothing useful and you perpetuate your scumslip to the point of having to quote the rules. The rules say absolutely nothing about how many scumteam members there are (aside from the SK). You assumed it still did when you quoted the rules for 77hawk, not once but twice. It's terrible and I think you are scum for it.
Current reads:
:rate0:EtR (stated)
:rate4:Kosa (scumchat question)
:rate4:TCM (town play overall + started killing RVS)
:rate4:77hawk (interaction w/ EtR)
Again, you've flip flopped on TCM, you never demonstrated why you think Hawk is town and you never even mentioned Kosa.
Please show what about Hawk's interactions with me demonstrate that he is town. You should also show how you've gone from calling TCM scum to now calling him town.
Answered.
****************
@AtheistGod: I noticed you saw responses from EtR you disliked because it comes from "a lack of understanding" versus some others that you expected he'd make. It leads me to several questions:
A. What responses would you expect from EtR (aka put yourself in his shoes).
B. Do you find validity in his arguments against me?
C. Do you see any reason EtR would not understand? I have my thoughts on this, so please remind me of them come your responses.
@TMCT: Didn't really catch that until I reread again before I made my EtR "case". Though at the time, I still felt TCM wasn't as scummy as EtR (hence my vote on EtR).
@Kosa/EtR on RVS-killing: I tend to do it in games I don't replace in. Not all. I'd have to go back and check Deitryphos and Intrigue. I dont remember doing it there. Definitely in Ataghan. But breaking RVS does lead to meaningful discussion and hey we're talking.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
It's not a 180, it's a 90. I went to thinking it was scummy to thinking it was null, because there's no way to discern whether or not hawk would have been seriously voting Shark if he hadn't RVS-voted him beforehand.
Where are you going with this, AE?
Scratch that again, because I'm so scatterbrained this game to have missed hawk's last post
As far as my FoS, I like my votes to hold meaning so I would prefer to just leave it where it is with RVS and use FoS instead of just throwing my vote wherever giving strange signals. Currently I think that SS is the most suspicious, why wouldn't he be getting my FoS?
Why are you more worried about the signals you're giving out than voting who you think to be scummy (or "suspicious")?
It's not a 180, it's a 90. I went to thinking it was scummy to thinking it was null, because there's no way to discern whether or not hawk would have been seriously voting Shark if he hadn't RVS-voted him beforehand.
It's not a 180, it's a 90. I went to thinking it was scummy to thinking it was null, because there's no way to discern whether or not hawk would have been seriously voting Shark if he hadn't RVS-voted him beforehand.
Where are you going with this, AE?
Scratch that again, because I'm so scatterbrained this game to have missed hawk's last post
As far as my FoS, I like my votes to hold meaning so I would prefer to just leave it where it is with RVS and use FoS instead of just throwing my vote wherever giving strange signals. Currently I think that SS is the most suspicious, why wouldn't he be getting my FoS?
Why are you more worried about the signals you're giving out than voting who you think to be scummy (or "suspicious")?
And why wouldn't you unvote Shark in that case?
Hmm, now I'm really suspicious. You should have asked that in the first place.
I didn't. I just said there was no way to discern whether it was still an RVS vote or had transitioned from an RVS vote to a serious vote.
But you never asked. You get on him about FOSn' instead of voting, but then realize he has a random vote down and just forget about it all instead of asking him about that random vote.
But you never asked. You get on him about FOSn' instead of voting, but then realize he has a random vote down and just forget about it all instead of asking him about that random vote.
That's fair enough. And it was a mistake on my part to not consider hawk could have answered the way he did and that it wasn't a useless question after all. Live and learn.
The extent to which you're defending Eron unnecessarily coupled with your relative inexperience makes me suspect you of being Eron's scumbuddy.
While not being fond of meta, I feel it's important to point out that hawk, as scum, defended Iso for the majority of Steins;Gate's Day 2 despite knowing he was the Town Cop, so to believe hawk and Eron are scumbuddies based his defense of Eron and his relative inexperience is incorrect.
It's a thought which needs to be considered and pointed out -- not a belief at this stage.
While I'm unsure of whether there's a true correlation or not, AE's activity levels this game mesh with previous games where he's been non-cop town (thinking OTR specifically). He's made good points so far.
My gut tells me that Shark is town. The mindset behind his posts seems clean at this point.
There's a whole lot of people that we haven't heard much from. I'd like to see more from Misting, Void, AGod, Raging_Levine, Truk, and Rhand. I know Easter happened, etc -- so it's fine, but I'd like to hear from these people now that the holiday is over. Void in particular is being unusually quiet -- compared to AGod, who was quiet for most of the game (for when he was alive) in Giant Robot.
I'm inclined to overlook Hawk's FOS/"vote must matter" thing as a newbtell/null, because I was the exact same way in my first game or two. I've largely outgrown that now...I've come around to the school of thought that a vote is the same thing as an FOS, just that it applies more pressure -- you can always unvote later. But when I was just starting out, I was of an identical mindset.
Also, @everyone, I'm making an attempt at getting all of my forum names to align across the various places I post. To that end, I'll hopefully be having my username changed here to Arianrhod, to match with the Source and a few other places. Sorry if that causes any confusion -- it'll be much less confusing for me, personally. I'm not changing any of my avatars or anything, so I should still be fairly easily recognizable while everyone gets used to it.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
Also I helped kill RVS again. :D.
The situation you caused reflectly more poorly on you then 7hawk77 or Cyouni. For you to try and paint suspicion on 7hawk77 and Cyouni for your bad post is not a townie reaction.
Same reason Voxx was town in OT2R Mafia: He first started to kill RVS. I'm just getting town-vibes from him.
Why didn't you say that when you first called Eron and TCM out for the scumslip? The only way I can possibly read "TCM scumslipped" is "I think TCM is scum."
And /barn Eron, you need to explain your read on hawk and how TCM's vote on me has anything to do with your Eron vote.
I'm pretty new. This is my second forum game of mafia and I was Mafia with TMCT and cyouni in Steins;Gate. I was so bad that I confused the town with my god awful plays which gave us the win.
I see you answered the question I was asking of you. I will check your other game out soon.
Eron's posts so far feel like he's trying to ride TCM's coattails on the setup-gaming, and doing a poor job of it.
Vote EtR.
Would you mind explaining the benefit of why a ScumEron would benefit from this?[/quote]
Ah, there's Void.
I see it as free content-posting. Eron gets to seem like he's contributing without any fear of repercussion -- if people come down on them for debating the setup, it'll be TCM who'll likely take the fall. Eron gets to look like he's contributing to the discussion without actually contributing anything new or running any risk of getting pressured.
Quote from Void »
I see you answered the question I was asking of you. I will check your other game out soon.
I've seen town!void post this line several times previously. + to my opinion of Void.
1. ... I'm pretty sure it was clear, but let's try again for clarity's sake. You slipped on how many members of the scumteam are. Unlike TCM (who validated based on experience), your "assumption" on the 4 member team comes from the rules. I've quoted the rules and it fails to even support your claim and you going to the point to quote the rules to 77hawk makes me seriously believe you misread the rules and assumed that just because you saw the 4 in 4 days and thought it said 4 scum or something like that.
See, now you're just making stuff up.I NEVER stated a number. Show where I did. You can't. Secondly, Hawk thought that I had received information from Guardman so I quoted the full rules so there was no confusion.
There's a difference between using the rules to help and just blatantly JUST using the rules.
This makes no sense whatsoever.
Now read the rules again. There is NOTHING stated in the rules that says there are 4 chimes. TCM used the rules to support his case, but obviously not entirely. EtR's post looks terrible and I think he's scum because of it.
Please demonstrate HOW my post is terrible. All you've done here is add some adjectives and nouns together and called it a case.
Going back to new point 1, your post contained nothing useful and you perpetuate your scumslip to the point of having to quote the rules. The rules say absolutely nothing about how many scumteam members there are (aside from the SK). You assumed it still did when you quoted the rules for 77hawk, not once but twice. It's terrible and I think you are scum for it. [/quote]
If my post contained nothing useful, how exactly was it a slip? Where did I say what number of chimes there were? And it's cute that you are making assumptions for me. Instead of, you know, reading what I said. I quoted the rules in full because Hawk thought that I got the information from Gman. I didn't want him operating under a false assumption.
Current reads:
:rate0:EtR (stated)
:rate4:Kosa (scumchat question)
:rate4:TCM (town play overall + started killing RVS)
:rate4:77hawk (interaction w/ EtR)
Again, you've flip flopped on TCM, you never demonstrated why you think Hawk is town and you never even mentioned Kosa.
Please show what about Hawk's interactions with me demonstrate that he is town. You should also show how you've gone from calling TCM scum to now calling him town.
Answered.
No, not really. You threw out some phrases, but failed to demonstrate any of them with actual evidence.
@TMCT: Didn't really catch that until I reread again before I made my EtR "case". Though at the time, I still felt TCM wasn't as scummy as EtR (hence my vote on EtR).
So is he scummy or not? Now you've inferred that TCM is scum by calling his post a scum slip, you've called him town, and now you're saying he's "not as scummy" as me. Which is it?
Does anyone else think that Shark's case warrants EtR to be lynched? The reason why I'm asking is because I think that it is a fairly weak case but not entirely invalid. EtR did a good job defending himself and I don't think he deserves a lynch.
The real problem that I brought this up was because SS voted for EtR when he will be on vacation. What town mindset would throw a vote out and then just let whatever happens happens when away? If no one else really agrees that EtR should be lynched, I think that SS should be primary suspect until he explains his thought processes.
@AG - Look at what Shark said regarding Hawk in his post. Initially he said he didn't like Hawk's responses but will show why he thinks Hawk is town later in the post. He fails to do that but still has him lumped into his town category.
He also calls Kosa town and his only reasoning is scumchat, when he hasn't really mentioned Kosa at all up till that point.
The whole thing feels like he made a bad vote and a bad comment to go with it and he's now trying to back himself out of a corner. His "reads" have been inconsistent and he has lacked any support to go along with them.
@Shark: What do you think of Kosa right now and why?
Would you mind explaining what you mean by "there are a few too many 'I's'"?
Nothing I would jump onto a wagon for, but I notice that occasionally, mafia will tend to defend themselves by saying they are town by posting their accomplishments. It's a small language tell, but something about the way he said that bothered me a bit. That's all.
Unvote TMCT, Vote Rhand.
I like the new vote aggressive TCM. To go along with this vote, I have a good feeling about AtheistGod. I had the exact same thought I did about Rhand's reasoning. Based on his two posts, neither of which being RVS votes, I am curious where he has been (understanding his posting is limited).
@Rhand: I realize it's early, but what's your opinion on the EtR/SF interaction?
@Kosa/EtR on RVS-killing: I tend to do it in games I don't replace in. Not all. I'd have to go back and check Deitryphos and Intrigue. I dont remember doing it there. Definitely in Ataghan. But breaking RVS does lead to meaningful discussion and hey we're talking.
Of course you only do it in games you don't replace in. By the time you have to replace in, RVS is already over
On a serious note, in regards to Ataghan: you didn't break RVS there. Xyre did it when he took your 4-scum post seriously, as you explained that post later on as being a RVS joke, and the only reason the "meaningful discussion" that followed hadn't ended with you mislynched was due to the "ced hammers" policy, who thankfully refused doing so.
Although I know we have to take your scumminess with a grain of salt because that's the way you play the game, the fact that you are trying to get townie credit based on flawed gameplay comparisons makes me raise an eyebrow.
What kind of reaction were you looking for? Mild suspicion was warranted for EtR and TCM. It seemed to me what they were doing was trying to figure out what adversity the town most overcome. If you think that is scummy enough to get a wagon going, I won't agree with you.
Also I don't understand how you can say TCM is town and EtR is scum when both of their analysis were the same result.
I was just getting initial gut responses from the reactions and your two just struck me as the most unsettling. But looking back and you'll see in a second, I do like you a bit better as town.
I don't know the experience level of 77hawk, so for now I'll assume relatively new (<1 year overall). This post reads as EtR trying to look proactive and helpful by pointing to the rules. But when you honestly look at the rules, I'll pull up the one in question:
5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia).
Now read the rules again. There is NOTHING stated in the rules that says there are 4 chimes. TCM used the rules to support his case, but obviously not entirely. EtR's post looks terrible and I think he's scum because of it.
You never quoted anywhere EtR said there were four chimes.
That's quite an interesting twist you're giving my post. If you had actually taken the time to read what happened instead of jumping to conclusions based on the fact that I reposted the rules, you would see that Hawk thought that I had gotten this information from Guardman himself. I posted what I did and clearly stated that it was from the original post so that there would be no confusion on Hawk's part as I also assumed that he was new-ish.
How you can possibly try and slant that as a negative is beyond me. The only conclusion that I can come to is that you are simply not reading what is happening here.
This is written from the base mindset of Shark being town. If required, I can point out the specific syntax, but I'm tired from sorting through peoples' terrible nested/multiquotes.
@AG - Look at what Shark said regarding Hawk in his post. Initially he said he didn't like Hawk's responses but will show why he thinks Hawk is town later in the post. He fails to do that but still has him lumped into his town category.
He also calls Kosa town and his only reasoning is scumchat, when he hasn't really mentioned Kosa at all up till that point.
The whole thing feels like he made a bad vote and a bad comment to go with it and he's now trying to back himself out of a corner. His "reads" have been inconsistent and he has lacked any support to go along with them.
Note how Shark is scum here now.
And it appears I deleted another post which shows EtR treating Shark as town again. I'll find it again later.
I'm pretty new. This is my second forum game of mafia and I was Mafia with TMCT and cyouni in Steins;Gate. I was so bad that I confused the town with my god awful plays which gave us the win.
It's not a 180, it's a 90. I went to thinking it was scummy to thinking it was null, because there's no way to discern whether or not hawk would have been seriously voting Shark if he hadn't RVS-voted him beforehand.
So why didn't you ask about it?
Also, you noted it was an RVS vote and subsequently dropped your point. Why?
I'm inclined to overlook Hawk's FOS/"vote must matter" thing as a newbtell/null, because I was the exact same way in my first game or two. I've largely outgrown that now...I've come around to the school of thought that a vote is the same thing as an FOS, just that it applies more pressure -- you can always unvote later. But when I was just starting out, I was of an identical mindset.
I will note that it's not an iinvalid mindset - that's my standard style of play.
I see you answered the question I was asking of you. I will check your other game out soon.
I've seen town!void post this line several times previously. + to my opinion of Void.
How is that relevant to alignment?
I was mostly just jotting it down for future reference. I think there's something with Void's thought processes when he's town that makes him say stuff like that in-thread. It's a really subtle thing -- to the point where I'm not even sure that he knows he does it. It's also not a big enough deal that I'm going to make something out of it -- it's like a penny. If I see enough pennies, then we've got a nickel. But by itself -- largely meaningless.
Fairly sure AE is town right now (hunting), and I believe TMCT is too (I think I see where TCMT is coming from in the debate around hawk).
I have Eron as leaning town because I see genuine frustration with Shark, who I have neutral for strange arguments arguments. That said, I would like it if you pointed out the syntax Cyouni. I don't see it.
Arianrhod is town for trying to push the game along and making sense when questioned.
Hawk Don't have enough yet personally.
Cyouni has been hunting and doing a lot of questioning. +town.
Kosakosa: Only thing to go on right now is the scumchat thing.
@Shark: When someone brought up that it could be a slip if chimes don't have chat, why did you drop it?
TCM held uder pressure. Don't see anything scummy yet. Also, I lost you on your last post after the vote. Can you re-explain what you were saying?
I figure that the best way that I can help is providing my T/S list.
Town:
TMCT - His gameplay is completely different than when he was scum in steins gate. He was a flawless town in that game and now he seems to be making mistakes just like cantrip said. Generally waited in the grass making nearly flawless arguments/cases as scum, hell he even had the doctor trying to save him multiple nights.
Leaning town:
TCM - I'm not familiar with this player but it seems that he is very experienced and takes scum hunting very seriously. Definitely someone who's vote I would take in to consideration more than other players.
Void/Cyouni - I've liked the general interactions and questions from both of these players so far. Cyouni worries me because I can't tell a difference between his town or scum game based on S;G. Luckily he had at least 1 big slip in that game so I can afford to trust him
Neutral:
AE - He's been paying attention but I didn't like his reactions to two jokes directed towards him. He also seems to be playing more of paranoid town then a scum hunting town. I probably also have a cognitive bias because of OMGUS but whatever, it's my opinion.
Anyone else not listed is also neutral.
Leaning scum:
Shark - I felt his accusation was a strech but had a genuine basis. I like people that want to get involved in scum hunting even if I don't agree with the exact logistics. At first I thought he was just relentlessly trying to get someone lynched with mediocre reasoning which is why I was perfectly happy with where my vote was. I'm still not exactly sure how to take what shark did even though he does it every game apparently. I don't like the fact that you've been flip/flopping a little on your opinions of people.
EtR - I'm still mildly confused on how you tried to explain the number of chime, to me you made it sound like you got a PM from guard and then just used the basic setup guidelines which didn't explicity state it. The problem that I had with sharks attack was he attacked before this happened. The only way you could have gotten a PM from guard was if you were actually scum which you have said that you didn't get. I just don't understand how you can state the number with the certainty in which you did.
SS - I don't see how you could agree with Shark off his inital argument. It was a strech and then the fact that you said that you weren't going to be able to be involved and still wanted to vote really rubbed me the wrong way.
@TCM, take my bolded words in the time of their context. Sharks attack on you and EtR at the time was scattered and forced and no one else agreed with this except for SS. I wanted anyone else that agreed with shark at the time to step forward.
Cyouni recently decided that EtR was scummy but not based on what shark had initially stated.
@AtheistGod: I noticed you saw responses from EtR you disliked because it comes from "a lack of understanding" versus some others that you expected he'd make. It leads me to several questions:
A. What responses would you expect from EtR (aka put yourself in his shoes).
B. Do you find validity in his arguments against me?
C. Do you see any reason EtR would not understand? I have my thoughts on this, so please remind me of them come your responses.
His first response asks for explanation on something that other people have explained before. The wording also didn't sound like he was just trying to gauge responses. Immediately going to the claim of "overexplanation" after that was unsettling.
The second response was an unsupported accusation. EtR made an accusation of unfounded reads simply because they hadn't been previously stated. I don't see why there would be an expectation that players provide a case for every single read they get, especially this early in the game.
The third response felt genuinely concerned. The questions have meaning and are less pointed.
My view was less on the lack of understanding and more on the fact that it felt forced. It felt more like an attempt at trapping than a true misunderstanding.
@TMCT: Didn't really catch that until I reread again before I made my EtR "case". Though at the time, I still felt TCM wasn't as scummy as EtR (hence my vote on EtR).
There's an inconsistency here.
60: You said both Eron and TCM scumslipped but voted TCM with no explanation. 63: I asked why Eron over TCM. 75: You said it was based on seeing town-TCM. 79: I asked why. 86: You said it was because he "first started to kill RVS" and that you were "just getting town-vibes from him." You also cased Eron in this post. 96: I asked why you didn't mention that in #60. 110: You said you didn't catch it until before making your case on Eron (presumably the one in #86).
So in #86 you either gave me a reason that you hadn't come up with when you made #75 -- in which case you're a liar -- or a reason you had just come up in the process of rereading the game but hadn't come up with as of #60 -- in which case a) your answer in #86 didn't really answer my ultimate question in #63, and b) my question in #63 still stands: why did you vote Eron over TCM? Don't say "though at the time, I still felt TCM wasn't as scummy as EtR" again.
But you never asked. You get on him about FOSn' instead of voting, but then realize he has a random vote down and just forget about it all instead of asking him about that random vote.
That's fair enough. And it was a mistake on my part to not consider hawk could have answered the way he did and that it wasn't a useless question after all. Live and learn.
Also, dropping my point had nothing to do with noting it was an RVS vote, it had to do with noting that hawk had any kind of a vote on Shark. I've responded to AE on this ad nauseam.
TCM: I am in africa and rely on slow wifi's and phone posting.
I'll get more active when I am back in Europe on the 4th.
I dislike Shark more than EtR at this point.
His scumslip post and the reversing stance he took about you don't add up.
Eron on the other hand is showing his normal town reaction on pressure.
I'm getting weird vibes from KosaKosa. I know he's working on different town meta's because he wants to make sure we can't meta him, but his posts have more confidence and body than usual. Him using meta himself is also very off.
vote: Kosakosa
(Without bad feelings from vanilla 2 )
I'm getting weird vibes from KosaKosa. I know he's working on different town meta's because he wants to make sure we can't meta him, but his posts have more confidence and body than usual. Him using meta himself is also very off.
Being confident != being correct. Check out what I just have done with Iso and TMCT in Steins;Gate's last Day...
Oops. Used meta again. I guess I'll try out the townKosa ultra-meta-over-user in this game
Rhand
The "weird" vibes that you are getting from KK, would you please explain why this is scumKK compared to townKK? And why you belive this to be a scum mindset?
If my mindset is inconsistent, which it may very well be, it's because I'm trying to figure out Shark's angle. I want to believe that he's just decided to bulldog this and is town, but the way he's 1) avoided certain questions and 2) twisted what has occurred, is giving me second thoughts.
Shark - I felt his accusation was a strech but had a genuine basis. I like people that want to get involved in scum hunting even if I don't agree with the exact logistics. At first I thought he was just relentlessly trying to get someone lynched with mediocre reasoning which is why I was perfectly happy with where my vote was. I'm still not exactly sure how to take what shark did even though he does it every game apparently. I don't like the fact that you've been flip/flopping a little on your opinions of people.
EtR - I'm still mildly confused on how you tried to explain the number of chime, to me you made it sound like you got a PM from guard and then just used the basic setup guidelines which didn't explicity state it. The problem that I had with sharks attack was he attacked before this happened. The only way you could have gotten a PM from guard was if you were actually scum which you have said that you didn't get. I just don't understand how you can state the number with the certainty in which you did.
Hawk - Can I call you Hawk? - do you see Shark and I on the same scum team at this point?
I'm not sure how I gave the impression that I got anything from G-Man but that's why I quoted the rules - to show that it was a copy and past from the original post. Can you please quote where I stated how many scum there are? Shark has been asked to quote it a few times, but he has yet to do so. (Hint: I didn't)
Sorry for the double post but I forgot to V/LA 4/3-4/6ish. I'm travelling to the Philippines and will be without access for a while. (Plane + driving in country.)
I'll be around through 4/3 at noon though and might be able to check in somewhere in the middle.
Quick post. I know I have to respond to several questions and add mor thoughts but I see EtR missed where I believe he first misstepped, but here it is for context. Note he responds to TCM using the rules to justify the 4 chimes. It is also referenced again when responding to 77hawk (why 4 chimes?) here he quotes twice.
If I am reading this correctly, the mafia are considered "chimes" in this game. The onyl primary difference is that they do no possess a nk (correct me if I am wrong). Based on the OP, the player results are:
4 Chime Players
11 Town players
1 SK
Why do you say there are definitely four chimes? The way I see it there can logically be anywhere from 2-6 chimes.
Yes, I don't see scum w/o daychat trying to ask why they don't publically. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me. I dont follow that logic at all.
I'm saying that if KK is a chime and there's no scumchat, he slipped
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
Why do you think TCM is voting you?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Just to be clear Shark, if your argument is around the fact that I scumslipped about the number of Chimes, and I in fact never stated a number of Chimes, your argument would then be invalid, would it not?
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
Why do you think TCM is voting you?
That 5 was why I asked if you said there were 5 chime or 4 chime and 1 sk earlier. I thought the TMCT context that you were answering the number of chimes.
Also, Please call me hawk. I would much prefer that over hawk77777777 or however people mess up the numbers.
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
Why do you think TCM is voting you?
That 5 was why I asked if you said there were 5 chime or 4 chime and 1 sk earlier. I thought the TMCT context that you were answering the number of chimes.
Also, Please call me hawk. I would much prefer that over hawk77777777 or however people mess up the numbers.
Right, that's what I thought. It was actually rule number 5 from the original post. That's why I quoted the full rules when you asked me about it. I wanted you to see that I wasn't guessing the number of Chimes.
TCM: I am in africa and rely on slow wifi's and phone posting.
I'll get more active when I am back in Europe on the 4th.
I dislike Shark more than EtR at this point.
His scumslip post and the reversing stance he took about you don't add up.
Eron on the other hand is showing his normal town reaction on pressure.
I'm getting weird vibes from KosaKosa. I know he's working on different town meta's because he wants to make sure we can't meta him, but his posts have more confidence and body than usual. Him using meta himself is also very off.
vote: Kosakosa
(Without bad feelings from vanilla 2 )
Horrible post
You dislike shark more than EtR but place your vote on Kosa. You acknowledge he would be posting different and vote him for that reason. Weak.
Going to look over the QT from Cyouni to see if I'll be moving my vote here.
dropping my point had nothing to do with noting it was an RVS vote, it had to do with noting that hawk had any kind of a vote on Shark. I've responded to AE on this ad nauseam.
K point is. You point out his fos because he's not voting. Find out he has a random vote down and are fine with it. Thing is, that random vote is essentially him not voting. You should have taken it as such.
I really don't know what to make of this and will keep it to the side for now.
AE - He's been paying attention but I didn't like his reactions to two jokes directed towards him. He also seems to be playing more of paranoid town then a scum hunting town. I probably also have a cognitive bias because of OMGUS but whatever, it's my opinion.
Does anyone else think that Shark's case warrants EtR to be lynched? The reason why I'm asking is because I think that it is a fairly weak case but not entirely invalid. EtR did a good job defending himself and I don't think he deserves a lynch.
The real problem that I brought this up was because SS voted for EtR when he will be on vacation. What town mindset would throw a vote out and then just let whatever happens happens when away? If no one else really agrees that EtR should be lynched, I think that SS should be primary suspect until he explains his thought processes.
FoS SilverSurfer
from the QT
It reads as you not putting any effort towards scumhunting because you're scum. This is especially true of the part where you put the data out for questioning without asking an opinion. It looks as though you're looking for an opinion to latch onto.
I see you answered the question I was asking of you. I will check your other game out soon.
I've seen town!void post this line several times previously. + to my opinion of Void.
How is that relevant to alignment?
I was mostly just jotting it down for future reference. I think there's something with Void's thought processes when he's town that makes him say stuff like that in-thread. It's a really subtle thing -- to the point where I'm not even sure that he knows he does it. It's also not a big enough deal that I'm going to make something out of it -- it's like a penny. If I see enough pennies, then we've got a nickel. But by itself -- largely meaningless.
But you never asked. You get on him about FOSn' instead of voting, but then realize he has a random vote down and just forget about it all instead of asking him about that random vote.
That's fair enough. And it was a mistake on my part to not consider hawk could have answered the way he did and that it wasn't a useless question after all. Live and learn.
Also, dropping my point had nothing to do with noting it was an RVS vote, it had to do with noting that hawk had any kind of a vote on Shark. I've responded to AE on this ad nauseam.
Humour me.
How does hawk having a RVS vote placed make the point regarding him FoSing vs voting null?
I have Eron as leaning town because I see genuine frustration with Shark, who I have neutral for strange arguments arguments. That said, I would like it if you pointed out the syntax Cyouni. I don't see it.
...
Hawk Don't have enough yet personally.
Why go out of the way to mention hawk when you don't have anything on him?
That's quite an interesting twist you're giving my post. If you had actually taken the time to read what happened instead of jumping to conclusions based on the fact that I reposted the rules, you would see that Hawk thought that I had gotten this information from Guardman himself. I posted what I did and clearly stated that it was from the original post so that there would be no confusion on Hawk's part as I also assumed that he was new-ish.
How you can possibly try and slant that as a negative is beyond me. The only conclusion that I can come to is that you are simply not reading what is happening here.
Note a few things.
There is no thought of Shark as scum - the "only conclusion" is that Shark's "simply not reading". This is confirmed by "jumping to conclusions", where Shark didn't "read what happened".
I dislike Shark more than EtR at this point.
His scumslip post and the reversing stance he took about you don't add up.
Eron on the other hand is showing his normal town reaction on pressure.
If my mindset is inconsistent, which it may very well be, it's because I'm trying to figure out Shark's angle. I want to believe that he's just decided to bulldog this and is town, but the way he's 1) avoided certain questions and 2) twisted what has occurred, is giving me second thoughts.
Oh? You go from thinking he's town in #88, to scum in #92, and then back to town in #122:
If my post contained nothing useful, how exactly was it a slip? Where did I say what number of chimes there were? And it's cute that you are making assumptions for me. Instead of, you know, reading what I said. I quoted the rules in full because Hawk thought that I got the information from Gman. I didn't want him operating under a false assumption.
I'd love to hear what changed your mind from the "only conclusion" in two hours/three posts.
Meh-ish. Slight tinge towards town for now - his posts have a more honest feel to them.
There's not much point in going any further in the quicktopic - he dies soon after that section you quoted. I'd recommend taking a look at the game instead.
Just to be clear Shark, if your argument is around the fact that I scumslipped about the number of Chimes, and I in fact never stated a number of Chimes, your argument would then be invalid, would it not?
Why do you keep trotting out this defense? The question you presumably were responding to with the rules quote was "Why do you say there are definitely four chimes?" If you weren't implicitly agreeing with TCM that there are four chimes, then...what were you trying to tell me?
Oh, your RVS vote is actually on Shark but wasn't counted. Scratch that.
Why would that change anything? The vote was just a random vote. Not serious.
Because players can turn an RVS vote into a real vote without saying/doing anything.
At the time I thought it was pointless to leave the question open because scum-hawk would've had the perfect defense ("I was voting Shark"). I was wrong.
I dislike Shark more than EtR at this point.
His scumslip post and the reversing stance he took about you don't add up.
Eron on the other hand is showing his normal town reaction on pressure.
What's up with the false dichotomy?
Where is the false dichotomy there? To me it reads as two unrelated views.
Rhand
The "weird" vibes that you are getting from KK, would you please explain why this is scumKK compared to townKK? And why you belive this to be a scum mindset?
I can't compare to scumkk, but the confidence with which he posts and the involvement he shows are not the townkk that I know.
His posts come off as too calculated.
I agree with this statement, which is why I'm not voting him yet. I think every game I've read with Shark in it he's done this.
I think you're secretly starting to come around on the benefits of meta analysis, KK
Why would that change anything? The vote was just a random vote. Not serious.
Well this is his second game. He has no meta.
@cyouni. Did you guys talk to 7hawk about his scum play?
Mods- vote count please.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Because players can turn an RVS vote into a real vote without saying/doing anything.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I see that you weren't until you saw he did have a vote down. But that vote was not a serious vote, so to do a 180 looks odd.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Where are you going with this, AE?
I don't think TCM is scum, thus it's not a slip for him.
I think you are, thus it is a slip.
I wasn't sure on 77hawks first post, but your response to him doesn't seem like scumbuddy-scumbuddy interaction.
1. ... I'm pretty sure it was clear, but let's try again for clarity's sake. You slipped on how many members of the scumteam are. Unlike TCM (who validated based on experience), your "assumption" on the 4 member team comes from the rules. I've quoted the rules and it fails to even support your claim and you going to the point to quote the rules to 77hawk makes me seriously believe you misread the rules and assumed that just because you saw the 4 in 4 days and thought it said 4 scum or something like that.
2. Town behavior. Town wants to help move the game along and progress it. Scum will durdle all day.
3. ???
Please demonstrate HOW my post is terrible. All you've done here is add some adjectives and nouns together and called it a case.
[/quote]
Going back to new point 1, your post contained nothing useful and you perpetuate your scumslip to the point of having to quote the rules. The rules say absolutely nothing about how many scumteam members there are (aside from the SK). You assumed it still did when you quoted the rules for 77hawk, not once but twice. It's terrible and I think you are scum for it.
Answered.
****************
@AtheistGod: I noticed you saw responses from EtR you disliked because it comes from "a lack of understanding" versus some others that you expected he'd make. It leads me to several questions:
A. What responses would you expect from EtR (aka put yourself in his shoes).
B. Do you find validity in his arguments against me?
C. Do you see any reason EtR would not understand? I have my thoughts on this, so please remind me of them come your responses.
@TMCT: Didn't really catch that until I reread again before I made my EtR "case". Though at the time, I still felt TCM wasn't as scummy as EtR (hence my vote on EtR).
@Kosa/EtR on RVS-killing: I tend to do it in games I don't replace in. Not all. I'd have to go back and check Deitryphos and Intrigue. I dont remember doing it there. Definitely in Ataghan. But breaking RVS does lead to meaningful discussion and hey we're talking.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Scratch that again, because I'm so scatterbrained this game to have missed hawk's last post
Why are you more worried about the signals you're giving out than voting who you think to be scummy (or "suspicious")?
And why wouldn't you unvote Shark in that case?
Why do you say he was seriously voting shark?
Hmm, now I'm really suspicious. You should have asked that in the first place.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I didn't. I just said there was no way to discern whether it was still an RVS vote or had transitioned from an RVS vote to a serious vote.
Until hawk's latest post, that is.
Did you not read me saying I missed him say that? I only focused on the part of the post KK had responded to.
But you never asked. You get on him about FOSn' instead of voting, but then realize he has a random vote down and just forget about it all instead of asking him about that random vote.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
That's fair enough. And it was a mistake on my part to not consider hawk could have answered the way he did and that it wasn't a useless question after all. Live and learn.
It's a thought which needs to be considered and pointed out -- not a belief at this stage.
While I'm unsure of whether there's a true correlation or not, AE's activity levels this game mesh with previous games where he's been non-cop town (thinking OTR specifically). He's made good points so far.
My gut tells me that Shark is town. The mindset behind his posts seems clean at this point.
There's a whole lot of people that we haven't heard much from. I'd like to see more from Misting, Void, AGod, Raging_Levine, Truk, and Rhand. I know Easter happened, etc -- so it's fine, but I'd like to hear from these people now that the holiday is over. Void in particular is being unusually quiet -- compared to AGod, who was quiet for most of the game (for when he was alive) in Giant Robot.
I'm inclined to overlook Hawk's FOS/"vote must matter" thing as a newbtell/null, because I was the exact same way in my first game or two. I've largely outgrown that now...I've come around to the school of thought that a vote is the same thing as an FOS, just that it applies more pressure -- you can always unvote later. But when I was just starting out, I was of an identical mindset.
EtR (2): SharkFinnigan, SilverSihhe
AE (1): Cyouni
The Most Curious Thing (1): TCM
7hawk77 (1): AE
SharkFinnigan (1): 7hawk77
Cantripmancer (1): AtheistGod
No Lynch (1): Misting
With 16 alive it is 9 to lynch.
Also, @everyone, I'm making an attempt at getting all of my forum names to align across the various places I post. To that end, I'll hopefully be having my username changed here to Arianrhod, to match with the Source and a few other places. Sorry if that causes any confusion -- it'll be much less confusing for me, personally. I'm not changing any of my avatars or anything, so I should still be fairly easily recognizable while everyone gets used to it.
The situation you caused reflectly more poorly on you then 7hawk77 or Cyouni. For you to try and paint suspicion on 7hawk77 and Cyouni for your bad post is not a townie reaction.
Vote: Shark
Would you mind explaining what you mean by "there are a few too many 'I's'"?
Would you mind explaining the benefit oof why a ScumEron would benefit from this?
How games have you played in on this site and what was the name of the games you played in?
I'm liking TCMT as Town after this post.
I see you answered the question I was asking of you. I will check your other game out soon.
Would you mind explaining the benefit of why a ScumEron would benefit from this?[/quote]
Ah, there's Void.
I see it as free content-posting. Eron gets to seem like he's contributing without any fear of repercussion -- if people come down on them for debating the setup, it'll be TCM who'll likely take the fall. Eron gets to look like he's contributing to the discussion without actually contributing anything new or running any risk of getting pressured.
I've seen town!void post this line several times previously. + to my opinion of Void.
So your arguement is that this post:
Doesn't infer that you believe TCM to be scum?
What weren't you sure about in his first post?
See, now you're just making stuff up.I NEVER stated a number. Show where I did. You can't. Secondly, Hawk thought that I had received information from Guardman so I quoted the full rules so there was no confusion.
You make this sound like a cut and dry situation. Both alignments can do both.
Going back to new point 1, your post contained nothing useful and you perpetuate your scumslip to the point of having to quote the rules. The rules say absolutely nothing about how many scumteam members there are (aside from the SK). You assumed it still did when you quoted the rules for 77hawk, not once but twice. It's terrible and I think you are scum for it. [/quote]
If my post contained nothing useful, how exactly was it a slip? Where did I say what number of chimes there were? And it's cute that you are making assumptions for me. Instead of, you know, reading what I said. I quoted the rules in full because Hawk thought that I got the information from Gman. I didn't want him operating under a false assumption.
No, not really. You threw out some phrases, but failed to demonstrate any of them with actual evidence.
So is he scummy or not? Now you've inferred that TCM is scum by calling his post a scum slip, you've called him town, and now you're saying he's "not as scummy" as me. Which is it?
I really really don't like the bolded.
@Shark: What do you think of Kosa right now and why?
Nothing I would jump onto a wagon for, but I notice that occasionally, mafia will tend to defend themselves by saying they are town by posting their accomplishments. It's a small language tell, but something about the way he said that bothered me a bit. That's all.
Unvote TMCT, Vote Rhand.
I like the new vote aggressive TCM. To go along with this vote, I have a good feeling about AtheistGod. I had the exact same thought I did about Rhand's reasoning. Based on his two posts, neither of which being RVS votes, I am curious where he has been (understanding his posting is limited).
@Rhand: I realize it's early, but what's your opinion on the EtR/SF interaction?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Yeah, shame on me on that. I don't want possible mislynches to happen by ignoring certain meta calls, though.
Of course you only do it in games you don't replace in. By the time you have to replace in, RVS is already over
On a serious note, in regards to Ataghan: you didn't break RVS there. Xyre did it when he took your 4-scum post seriously, as you explained that post later on as being a RVS joke, and the only reason the "meaningful discussion" that followed hadn't ended with you mislynched was due to the "ced hammers" policy, who thankfully refused doing so.
Although I know we have to take your scumminess with a grain of salt because that's the way you play the game, the fact that you are trying to get townie credit based on flawed gameplay comparisons makes me raise an eyebrow.
Unvote
I don't see any reasoning for that.
Provide it.
I find myself questioning the validity of your argument.
You never quoted anywhere EtR said there were four chimes.
This is written from the base mindset of Shark being town. If required, I can point out the specific syntax, but I'm tired from sorting through peoples' terrible nested/multiquotes.
Note how Shark is scum here now.
And it appears I deleted another post which shows EtR treating Shark as town again. I'll find it again later.
You also confused your own team.
Not particularly, the only things I said about it was regarding Day 1. You can check the quicktopic for more details.
So why didn't you ask about it?
Also, you noted it was an RVS vote and subsequently dropped your point. Why?
What?
If you believe this, you seriously need to rethink it, because this is the definition of tunnel-vision.
How so?
I will note that it's not an iinvalid mindset - that's my standard style of play.
How is that relevant to alignment?
---
Vote EtR
Mindset is inconsistent.
I find that I have to continually remind myself that "stupidity is not a scum tell".
I was mostly just jotting it down for future reference. I think there's something with Void's thought processes when he's town that makes him say stuff like that in-thread. It's a really subtle thing -- to the point where I'm not even sure that he knows he does it. It's also not a big enough deal that I'm going to make something out of it -- it's like a penny. If I see enough pennies, then we've got a nickel. But by itself -- largely meaningless.
Does that make sense?
Fairly sure AE is town right now (hunting), and I believe TMCT is too (I think I see where TCMT is coming from in the debate around hawk).
I have Eron as leaning town because I see genuine frustration with Shark, who I have neutral for strange arguments arguments. That said, I would like it if you pointed out the syntax Cyouni. I don't see it.
Arianrhod is town for trying to push the game along and making sense when questioned.
Hawk Don't have enough yet personally.
Cyouni has been hunting and doing a lot of questioning. +town.
Kosakosa: Only thing to go on right now is the scumchat thing.
@Shark: When someone brought up that it could be a slip if chimes don't have chat, why did you drop it?
TCM held uder pressure. Don't see anything scummy yet. Also, I lost you on your last post after the vote. Can you re-explain what you were saying?
Town:
TMCT - His gameplay is completely different than when he was scum in steins gate. He was a flawless town in that game and now he seems to be making mistakes just like cantrip said. Generally waited in the grass making nearly flawless arguments/cases as scum, hell he even had the doctor trying to save him multiple nights.
Leaning town:
TCM - I'm not familiar with this player but it seems that he is very experienced and takes scum hunting very seriously. Definitely someone who's vote I would take in to consideration more than other players.
Void/Cyouni - I've liked the general interactions and questions from both of these players so far. Cyouni worries me because I can't tell a difference between his town or scum game based on S;G. Luckily he had at least 1 big slip in that game so I can afford to trust him
Neutral:
AE - He's been paying attention but I didn't like his reactions to two jokes directed towards him. He also seems to be playing more of paranoid town then a scum hunting town. I probably also have a cognitive bias because of OMGUS but whatever, it's my opinion.
Anyone else not listed is also neutral.
Leaning scum:
Shark - I felt his accusation was a strech but had a genuine basis. I like people that want to get involved in scum hunting even if I don't agree with the exact logistics. At first I thought he was just relentlessly trying to get someone lynched with mediocre reasoning which is why I was perfectly happy with where my vote was. I'm still not exactly sure how to take what shark did even though he does it every game apparently. I don't like the fact that you've been flip/flopping a little on your opinions of people.
EtR - I'm still mildly confused on how you tried to explain the number of chime, to me you made it sound like you got a PM from guard and then just used the basic setup guidelines which didn't explicity state it. The problem that I had with sharks attack was he attacked before this happened. The only way you could have gotten a PM from guard was if you were actually scum which you have said that you didn't get. I just don't understand how you can state the number with the certainty in which you did.
SS - I don't see how you could agree with Shark off his inital argument. It was a strech and then the fact that you said that you weren't going to be able to be involved and still wanted to vote really rubbed me the wrong way.
________________________________________________________________
@TCM, take my bolded words in the time of their context. Sharks attack on you and EtR at the time was scattered and forced and no one else agreed with this except for SS. I wanted anyone else that agreed with shark at the time to step forward.
Cyouni recently decided that EtR was scummy but not based on what shark had initially stated.
Outdated Mafia Stats
His first response asks for explanation on something that other people have explained before. The wording also didn't sound like he was just trying to gauge responses. Immediately going to the claim of "overexplanation" after that was unsettling.
The second response was an unsupported accusation. EtR made an accusation of unfounded reads simply because they hadn't been previously stated. I don't see why there would be an expectation that players provide a case for every single read they get, especially this early in the game.
The third response felt genuinely concerned. The questions have meaning and are less pointed.
My view was less on the lack of understanding and more on the fact that it felt forced. It felt more like an attempt at trapping than a true misunderstanding.
I'm fairly certain that my RVS was Misting, not Cantrip but Unvote
There's an inconsistency here.
60: You said both Eron and TCM scumslipped but voted TCM with no explanation.
63: I asked why Eron over TCM.
75: You said it was based on seeing town-TCM.
79: I asked why.
86: You said it was because he "first started to kill RVS" and that you were "just getting town-vibes from him." You also cased Eron in this post.
96: I asked why you didn't mention that in #60.
110: You said you didn't catch it until before making your case on Eron (presumably the one in #86).
So in #86 you either gave me a reason that you hadn't come up with when you made #75 -- in which case you're a liar -- or a reason you had just come up in the process of rereading the game but hadn't come up with as of #60 -- in which case a) your answer in #86 didn't really answer my ultimate question in #63, and b) my question in #63 still stands: why did you vote Eron over TCM? Don't say "though at the time, I still felt TCM wasn't as scummy as EtR" again.
How in-depth did you read D4 of Steins;Gate, Cantrip?
/barn, especially given the black-and-whiteness of post #60.
@Shark
If it's not a scumslip for TCM, why can't it not be a scumslip for Eron as well?
And at being able to say both "TCM scumslipped" and "I don't think TCM is scum, thus it's not a slip for him" with a straight face.
Also, dropping my point had nothing to do with noting it was an RVS vote, it had to do with noting that hawk had any kind of a vote on Shark. I've responded to AE on this ad nauseam.
I'll get more active when I am back in Europe on the 4th.
I dislike Shark more than EtR at this point.
His scumslip post and the reversing stance he took about you don't add up.
Eron on the other hand is showing his normal town reaction on pressure.
I'm getting weird vibes from KosaKosa. I know he's working on different town meta's because he wants to make sure we can't meta him, but his posts have more confidence and body than usual. Him using meta himself is also very off.
vote: Kosakosa
(Without bad feelings from vanilla 2 )
Being confident != being correct. Check out what I just have done with Iso and TMCT in Steins;Gate's last Day...
Oops. Used meta again. I guess I'll try out the townKosa ultra-meta-over-user in this game
What is your read on Shark?
Rhand
The "weird" vibes that you are getting from KK, would you please explain why this is scumKK compared to townKK? And why you belive this to be a scum mindset?
If my mindset is inconsistent, which it may very well be, it's because I'm trying to figure out Shark's angle. I want to believe that he's just decided to bulldog this and is town, but the way he's 1) avoided certain questions and 2) twisted what has occurred, is giving me second thoughts.
Hawk - Can I call you Hawk? - do you see Shark and I on the same scum team at this point?
I'm not sure how I gave the impression that I got anything from G-Man but that's why I quoted the rules - to show that it was a copy and past from the original post. Can you please quote where I stated how many scum there are? Shark has been asked to quote it a few times, but he has yet to do so. (Hint: I didn't)
I'll be around through 4/3 at noon though and might be able to check in somewhere in the middle.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
That 5 was why I asked if you said there were 5 chime or 4 chime and 1 sk earlier. I thought the TMCT context that you were answering the number of chimes.
Also, Please call me hawk. I would much prefer that over hawk77777777 or however people mess up the numbers.
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Right, that's what I thought. It was actually rule number 5 from the original post. That's why I quoted the full rules when you asked me about it. I wanted you to see that I wasn't guessing the number of Chimes.
I don't think you and shark are on the same scum team. I just don't know if you slipped or he is trying to rush a lynch, both behavior is scummy.
that one post had me so confused, I need time to rethink/reread this whole mess.
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Horrible post
You dislike shark more than EtR but place your vote on Kosa. You acknowledge he would be posting different and vote him for that reason. Weak.
Going to look over the QT from Cyouni to see if I'll be moving my vote here.
K point is. You point out his fos because he's not voting. Find out he has a random vote down and are fine with it. Thing is, that random vote is essentially him not voting. You should have taken it as such.
I really don't know what to make of this and will keep it to the side for now.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Two jokes? What was the second?
You see my play as paranoid?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
from the QT
Haven't finished reading it.
@Cyouni. what do you think of Hawks play so far.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
By the way, Celtic mythology?
Humour me.
How does hawk having a RVS vote placed make the point regarding him FoSing vs voting null?
Why go out of the way to mention hawk when you don't have anything on him?
Note a few things.
There is no thought of Shark as scum - the "only conclusion" is that Shark's "simply not reading". This is confirmed by "jumping to conclusions", where Shark didn't "read what happened".
What's up with the false dichotomy?
Probably town.
Oh? You go from thinking he's town in #88, to scum in #92, and then back to town in #122:
I'd love to hear what changed your mind from the "only conclusion" in two hours/three posts.
Meh-ish. Slight tinge towards town for now - his posts have a more honest feel to them.
There's not much point in going any further in the quicktopic - he dies soon after that section you quoted. I'd recommend taking a look at the game instead.
There are questions here.
Why do you keep trotting out this defense? The question you presumably were responding to with the rules quote was "Why do you say there are definitely four chimes?" If you weren't implicitly agreeing with TCM that there are four chimes, then...what were you trying to tell me?
@AE/Cyouni
At the time I thought it was pointless to leave the question open because scum-hawk would've had the perfect defense ("I was voting Shark"). I was wrong.
Where is the false dichotomy there? To me it reads as two unrelated views.
I can't compare to scumkk, but the confidence with which he posts and the involvement he shows are not the townkk that I know.
His posts come off as too calculated.