Saying you are waiting for questions and information to happen in front of you is the opposite of scum hunting, asking questions and inquiring. The point that you would have waited for a case to be made by others that you aren't going to be involved in is the sitting.
Thank you.
Actually Che... I've just read through your posts and all you've done pretty much is instantly start attacking Polski.
Is there a reason for this?
Early on, Mist plays both sides of the Polski/Che thing.
That's how mafia works. When someone does something scummy, press for it. Why would I not want mafia to feel pressure? If town feels pressure they won't crack because they have nothing to hide.
And I also applied some pressure to Rhand. What have you done this game so far?
Me? I've just been testing the waters for a reaction, because I have yet to come across much for discussion. ^^
She does something similar to what Polski did earlier, wanting to watch and wait. By itself, not too scummy for a new player, but it's odd because there's plenty going on with the two people she's voiced suspicion of (che and polski).
Generic also does this with his double FoS, which I didn't like, but I got a stronger gut town reaction to his earlier posts.
Call me Mist please, that's my preferred shortening of my name.
Also, looking back on that post now, I realize that your statement about the attack is correct. My apologies for the inexperienced scum hunting on my part.
I do have a question for you, however: Can you give me your full reasoning for voting me? In particular, what parts of my posts did you find scummy?
She apologizes for her attack, which tends to come from scum. Townies are more likely to hold their convictions or attacks, even if they're misguided, because they had an original solid reason for it. At the very least, they can explain why they made the interpretation that they did, which she does do later on... but it doesn't really make much sense.
She asks about what's scummy about her, which is something scum worry about more.
(1) I wasn't aware of the forcedness and weakness of the attack until you and Polski pointed it out for me.
Also, what is your definition of clear-cut scum hunting? What is the minimum that you believe could be considered scum hunting? (Just for future reference :P)
Already been brought up, but I don't understand why she would ask that as town. Town typically do as much as they can with how much time they have, regardless of how it's seen. Even her explanation:
4) I don't want to do the minimum; in fact, just the opposite. However, if I locate a clear-cut minimum then I'll soon after find the top-most point and then the equilibrium.
makes little sense. Why does the bottom point need to be seen to find equilibrium? And why do you need to get at equilibrium anyway?
Again, forcing is making an attack without good reasoning just to make it. Just to cast suspicion on someone, or look like you are helping without really helping. What motive/reason do you have for doing that as town?
Why are you more concerned about us considering you as someone that is scum-hunting than actually helping the town to scum-hunt?
Why would you not be surprised to be playing with a scum mindset as town? Mindset indicates goals, and the goals of town and scum are completely opposite.
What reasoning do you think was not made? (Now I'm not saying some of my reasoning was poor, but if you're accusing me of not having reasoning, you've got to have some reasoning behind yourself.)
Oh, I'm not more concerned. To be perfectly honest, I'm genuinely concerned to find the scum. In fact, I'll go back and analyze everyone's posts when I get home from school and see if I can find anything.
I'm not surprised. Why? Because this always happens to me in these sort of games, and I usually switch mindsets halfway through the game, though I'm not entirely sure how I did it with this game. So yeah.
Second paragraph bothers me. Mainly the second sentence; she shouldn't need to tell us that she's genuinely concerned to find scum, it should be apparent.
It's good that she wants to look back at this game and look for stuff (and I do want to see what she thinks)... but it took Tom prodding her constantly to do it. Up until now, she hasn't given any suspicions other than Polski and Che, which Polski she retconned, and Che she hasn't mentioned since. Despite what she says, I see way more concern over how she looks than who she thinks is scum.
Voting someone is concrete and applies pressure. All a FoS does is keep you away from a possible bad lynch and keeps you under the radar. 2 things scum do. Nothing townie comes from a FoS, AT ALL.
I know this was quite a while back, but this post doesn't even make sense. I can see that one of the things scum allegedly do is keeping themself under the radar, but what's the other one?
@ImTehFairy: Nice PBPA. I can see what you mean by not mentioning Che at all... but to be honest, I hadn't been looking at posts too closely recently, I was busy with Tom attacking me.
Again, forcing is making an attack without good reasoning just to make it. Just to cast suspicion on someone, or look like you are helping without really helping. What motive/reason do you have for doing that as town?
Why are you more concerned about us considering you as someone that is scum-hunting than actually helping the town to scum-hunt?
Why would you not be surprised to be playing with a scum mindset as town? Mindset indicates goals, and the goals of town and scum are completely opposite.
What reasoning do you think was not made? (Now I'm not saying some of my reasoning was poor, but if you're accusing me of not having reasoning, you've got to have some reasoning behind yourself.)
Wut? I'm not accusing you of anything there, just asking you what your reasoning was. If you already answered my question direct me to your answer please.
@ImTehFairy: Nice PBPA. I can see what you mean by not mentioning Che at all... but to be honest, I hadn't been looking at posts too closely recently, I was busy with Tom attacking me.
If you are being honest now, what were you being before?
If you still feel the way you do, I'm not sure I understand why you are unvoting me.
In response to your thoughts, let me put it this way. Our ultimate goal is to lynch the scum. There are two tools that help in doing that: finding who is scum and finding who is not scum (town). We want to use both those tools. So if we suspect someone is town, there isn't much reason not to point it out (unless you are scum, where you want to keep suspicion on as many players as practically possible). Usually reasoning accompanies the pointing out, although I did not provide any (I could if asked, but don't find it extremely important at this point in time anyway, as reads change, yada yada).
Other circumstances in which calling someone town or leaning town could be useful is when you are trying to give a player a false sense of security.
Voting someone is concrete and applies pressure. All a FoS does is keep you away from a possible bad lynch and keeps you under the radar. 2 things scum do. Nothing townie comes from a FoS, AT ALL.
I know this was quite a while back, but this post doesn't even make sense. I can see that one of the things scum allegedly do is keeping themself under the radar, but what's the other one?
They dont want to vote people or start wagons, ie bad lynches. You don't vote people, then when we look back at votecounts to find scum, your name is nowhere to be found. Just like you playing both side of Che / Polski so if one flips town you never had a bad word to say about them.
Unvote, Vote Mistshadow just a new scum without her sea legs yet
That's how mafia works. When someone does something scummy, press for it. Why would I not want mafia to feel pressure? If town feels pressure they won't crack because they have nothing to hide.
suspiciously worded?
And thats a slip. Che can claim its standard english, but 'we' there works just as well. We can get Che D2
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I didn't vote him in RVS and a FoS is scummy when you can vote to add pressure instead of observing from the outside, keeping yourself intact.
So the fact I couldn't make my mind up whether both of you are mafia or just one and then if just one, which one, isn't reason to declare openly my suspicions if you both?
Well gone che, you just graduated to the head of the list.
vote che Guevara
For a player that visits this forum regularly, this would smell a bit of OMGUS. Given that generic's usual mafia experience seems to differ from the standard here by a significant amount, I'm unsure of how to evaluate this. Noted for future reference.
That's how mafia works. When someone does something scummy, press for it. Why would I not want mafia to feel pressure? If town feels pressure they won't crack because they have nothing to hide.
And I also applied some pressure to Rhand. What have you done this game so far?
Me? I've just been testing the waters for a reaction, because I have yet to come across much for discussion. ^^
This doesn't feel right. While in the same vein as my initial play, there had been a notably greater amount of content when she made this claim. To think that she couldn't find anything to comment on is suspect. Lurky.
I feel, as a few others have said, like the chance of either che or polski being scum is high. Because of that I'd like to see equal pressure on both to potentially cause one to crack. Since its 3 votes che and now only 2 on polski, vote polski.
This vote is very weak, simply put. I'm willing to give it a pass for now given petard's green nature, but it's noted for future reference.
(2) I'm sorry I'm a new player and haven't yet learned a proper way to ask questions in Mafia, maybe try the experienced player section if you want to list that as a scum tell.
(3) I'm not at all going to like playing the newb card I'm playing right now, but congratulations for translating inexperience as scummyness. I'm sure you'll feel mighty good about yourself when I flip town.
I'm not surprised. Why? Because this always happens to me in these sort of games, and I usually switch mindsets halfway through the game, though I'm not entirely sure how I did it with this game. So yeah.
These posts are awful. In the first we have fearmongering and noob card usage, the next we have a claim that makes no sense at all.
It is suspicious: Polski is fearmongering for no good reason.
How was I fearmongering? I simply said that I didn't want the game to go too quickly. I made no mention of why it would be bad until after I was questioned about it.
Question. Love your post, but Im wondering what your opinion of me. I'm trying to find the town too (you were the first clear I made iirc). Is there a difference in our playstyles and how we go about things? I have more opinions on it but this is enough for now.
She asks about what's scummy about her, which is something scum worry about more.
Just a nitpick, while it's true that scum do worry about this more than town, it's a valid question for both sides to ask. Having your detractors explain what they see as scummy can allow you to show your side of things and possibly help them see reason if you're simply misunderstood town.
I don't believe that's the case here, but I felt I should mention it.
I hate having to retract on a point, but I hate hypocrisy more. unvote
can you explain your unvote please? I don't see the reasoning here.
Am I seriously not getting my point across about the telling everyone else who you think is town point?
Seriously, who is that any help to?
If I find someone scummy, why would I care if Tom or mist found them to be townish? No matter how I look at it, the ONLY people who benefit are mafia.
Mafia can tell from that who to bandwagon successfully, who to agree with and who to mud doing against...
If I'm the only person in this game who finds that scummy then I really am on my own here.
I can see how if it's not common practice for you and yours, that you might see it as scummy. However, it is common practice here, for town and scum (from what I've seen, anyway.) Is it fair to call something scummy if town regularly practice it as well?
Voting someone is concrete and applies pressure. All a FoS does is keep you away from a possible bad lynch and keeps you under the radar. 2 things scum do. Nothing townie comes from a FoS, AT ALL.
I know this was quite a while back, but this post doesn't even make sense. I can see that one of the things scum allegedly do is keeping themself under the radar, but what's the other one?
They dont want to vote people or start wagons, ie bad lynches. You don't vote people, then when we look back at votecounts to find scum, your name is nowhere to be found. Just like you playing both side of Che / Polski so if one flips town you never had a bad word to say about them.
Unvote, Vote Mistshadow just a new scum without her sea legs yet
That's how mafia works. When someone does something scummy, press for it. Why would I not want mafia to feel pressure? If town feels pressure they won't crack because they have nothing to hide.
suspiciously worded?
And thats a slip. Che can claim its standard english, but 'we' there works just as well. We can get Che D2
I don't like this post much at all. IGMEOY
______________________________________
Mist is the most obvious candidate for a lynch, but something about her wagon feels off. I'm going to be watching carefully. For now though, Vote Mistshadow
@Tom: I think we're both overanalysing what the other says. I'm going to take a step back and focus on other happenings.
The answers to your questions:
* Polski's fearmongering: To me the post came off as trying to slow us down. Slowing down is the one thing town does never want. If we stall, we make it easy for scum to choose the lynches. Polski seemed to want us to be afraid to go too fast.
* Has there never been a time when you were town and didn't have anything to add, whether it was because certain questions needed to be answered first or otherwise?: Yes. What I missed in Polski's post was a good explanation why he didn't have anything to add; what he was waiting for. That's what I see as avoiding content.
Is there anything else you need me to adress?
@Generic: T/S lists are not inherently scummy. And, as has been pointed out several times, Shark did one first and you never commented on that.
I'm worried about the mindset with which you look at it: you only see the scum gain of T/S lists and not the town gain. When a scum flips and that scum has posted T/S lists, those lists contain a treasure of information to analyse.
@ImTehFairy: (This is about post #178. If needed I can do this again with quotes, but this game is getting too many quotewalls.)
What is wrong with "playing the two sides" of the Polski/Che thing?
I don't like how you give yourself an excuse for pursuing Mist and not Generic for what you say is the same thing. Basically you're saying that it's ok for town to do so because you have a gut town read on Generic, but if Mist does it it means he's scum.
The rest of your case is solid. I want to see Mist respond to it in more detail. I'm particularly concerned about how Mist immediately after you pointing out that she dropped Che digs up a post from him.
@Polski: I like post #185 a lot. The quote from petard that you pulled out is a good find. It has the same effect as a FOS. If petard or Che flips scum, this is important.
Can you go in detail on why you don't like MRHblue's post?
unvote Polski
I want to vote Mist, but I have no idea how many votes she's at.
Alright, I'll finish my going through the old posts and I'll reply to this humongous mass to things relating to me once I get home, I only have about 10 minutes right now.
Someone also suggested my vote on che was OMGUS. I think you will find I asked about whether your site accepts the fos as a tool for marking where you have a couple of suspects, and was immediately jumped on as it being co spidered scummy.
Now I mention hypocricisy, how is my fosing two people where I can't decide if one or both are mafia ANY different to a couple of you creating lists of who is most and least scummy?
Generally speaking, someone who creates a list of town/mafia will have a vote on one of their mafia reads. If someone created a T/S list, listed at least one person as heavily leaning mafia (or red, by rainbow standards*) and didn't vote them, then there'd be great cause for alarm and suspicion.
*I think that might be the silliest thing I've ever said in a serious manner.
FoS, on the other hand, is basically outdated, from what I've gathered. Aside from using it to denote someone you consider sketchy when your vote is already placed, there's little reason to use it.
I'll admit, I believe the way you used it to be fine, but many people get certain tells so hard-set in their minds that context means little to them, and knee-jerk reactions are bound to happen.
@Rhand: In regards to MRH, the thing that sets me on edge more than anything is that he jumps in and uses awful reasoning that has already been refuted to try and designate Che as Tomorrow's lynch. It wasn't a slip. Plain and simple.
Using a 'slip' as a reason for calling someone scum is iffy, in my book. While it's true that a real slip is golden, calling someone out on a slip is a downright lazy and dangerous means by which to attack someone. You don't have to answer for any of their previous posts, because supposedly this one just has to mean that they're scum. You can ignore the entirety of a case for why someone might be town and tunnel that one point, because if you can convince everyone it's a scum slip, that person is done for. That's not effective or wise, and it's much more likely that scum would do it than town.
@Generic:
T/S lists aren't necessarily "good"; they help both teams. Giving a T/S list is null really.
In my opinion, so is a FoS: it gets used by town and scum alike. The exception is that a flipped scum that used the FoS tool has often pointed out his buddy with the FoS. (but Tom called this WIFOM, so opinions differ on this).
We've got the habit of letting someone claim when (s)he's 2 votes away from getting lynched. We don't accidentally want to lynch a PR that can prove his alignment.
A hammer ends the day and hence also the communication. Because behavioural analysis is our most important tool, it makes no sense to end the day early.
Mist is at L-2 now, so she should claim.
My initial read of Mist was one of sincere noobishness. The way she responded to Fairy's case convinced me she's noob scum.
I really can't say. It's too early and we have very little to go on from him. I don't have any concrete reason to believe he is, but as I said, I've got my eye on him.
Just a nitpick, while it's true that scum do worry about this more than town, it's a valid question for both sides to ask. Having your detractors explain what they see as scummy can allow you to show your side of things and possibly help them see reason if you're simply misunderstood town.
I don't believe that's the case here, but I felt I should mention it.
While that's true, her defense seems to be her primary concern. I could understand if she were being bombarded by everyone right out the gate, as I know from experience that defending yourself takes time, but it was really just Tom at that point. Most of the focus was on other people.
Now I mention hypocricisy, how is my fosing two people where I can't decide if one or both are mafia ANY different to a couple of you creating lists of who is most and least scummy?
Generally speaking, someone who creates a list of town/mafia will have a vote on one of their mafia reads. If someone created a T/S list, listed at least one person as heavily leaning mafia (or red, by rainbow standards*) and didn't vote them, then there'd be great cause for alarm and suspicion.
*I think that might be the silliest thing I've ever said in a serious manner.
FoS, on the other hand, is basically outdated, from what I've gathered. Aside from using it to denote someone you consider sketchy when your vote is already placed, there's little reason to use it.
Basically this. The problem with putting suspicion on both major suspects is that, no matter which way it goes down later, you can point back to it and say "look, I was right about that person!" or "Oh, see, I wasn't that sure". It gives you more wiggle room, and if it was a bad wagon people might be less likely to look back at you if you were unsure.
Part of the reason I didn't think the way Generic did it was as bad was that he resolved it almost immediately by voting Che. I can also understand him doing that if FoSes are normal on his forum.
Oh and thanks Rhand for less quote walls. I think I answered your question here.
~
I want Mist to at least respond to whatever she feels she needs to respond to before she claims. There's still quite a few people that haven't checked in since Mist started getting votes.
Her response to my case was... weird. I'm trying to think back to times when somebody thanked me / complimented my case against them, because it's an odd mindset... only remember one time and they were scum, but that's hardly a good sample size. Can't remember any times as town, town tend to be much more indignant, even the times where I was convinced they were scum and I made what I thought was a good case.
@Generic: I'm very new at this too. You all should get real mentors
I already said that I want her to defend herself against Fairy's case more in detail. I still want to see that.
Please explain what kind of coaching ever has malicious intent.
False information, fear mongering. There's a few sublties I'd think that could be slid in and go unnoticed by untrained eye. Given I know only a few players with some real experience (You and Rhand I know, I semi-knew of 22bebo, and only sort of know ITF), it could be really easy for the experienced scum player to turn a town of new players into sheep.
I’m not saying Rhand is scum by any stretch at this point, but it’s something that I have to be aware of at all times.
Have you openly declared me town (before this post) along with others on a colour coded list or variation of which not only buddies up to certain players but also casts doubt on others?
Maybe I'm being too bullish about this, but on day 1 I don't make a habit of clearing a decent percentage of the players as safe to trust the opinions of while throwing sweeping suspicion on more than one player at a time. I get only one vote so I do try to focus my suspicion offering reasons with my vote.
But the fact you wish to offer up the information that you have been doing similar is certainly a pro town move, so that worked in your favour at least. Saying you liked my post didn't (buddying, aaaarrrgggh! ) so let's say you are back all square in the middle again
Maybe I just do t take praise well... At least not from people I suspect want to kill me. When I know you all like I know Iso (well, maybe not THAT well ) I will understand if the praise is genuine or tactical, but for now I'm happy biting everyone's head off when they question me. So far no one is covering themselves in glory in this game right now.
I was asking because yes, I made a list similar to his and you attack him for it over me. It’s an inconsistent mindset that I wanted to address. I mean if there’s something different from Tom’s and mine, then that’s understandable, but I am trying to at least understand your process to then see if you are either onto something (because I’m missing the buddying from town), or that you just overlooked my view.
SharkFinnigan's post feels off. Why is Generic's opinion of you so important?
It doesn’t. It’s that he was pushing Tom for similar play as me. It’s inconsistent, so I am trying to understand if it was something I or he overlooked.
I hate having to retract on a point, but I hate hypocrisy more. unvote
Am I seriously not getting my point across about the telling everyone else who you think is town point?
Seriously, who is that any help to?
If I find someone scummy, why would I care if Tom or mist found them to be townish? No matter how I look at it, the ONLY people who benefit are mafia.
Mafia can tell from that who to bandwagon successfully, who to agree with and who to mud doing against...
If I'm the only person in this game who finds that scummy then I really am on my own here.
There is a benefit to having these lists. It can be useful when trying to understand another players point of view. If they have a player in an alignment for poor reasoning, it could mean that they are scumbuddies. Additionally, suppose I just decided to vote Rhand or you out of the blue. You can now go back and see that I had you as pretty town and that I made a vote with little to no indication on changing views. That’s pretty scummy to me. It’s helpful for both town/scum to use.
TL;DR: T/S lists are present in a lot of games here. Level of use depends on players. Mostly by mid-level players. Good to understand other players PoV and a tool for town to exploit if scum makes some.
Welcome ITF, you made a strong entrance, and I’ll happy vote MistShadow. I agree with your PBPA, specifically the “2nd sentence” and the ensuing response from Mist. That means I was wrong on my other point on a possible townMist. I did think it was a town-tell too, but I guess Tom may be right after all. For reference:
(3) I'm not at all going to like playing the newb card I'm playing right now, but congratulations for translating inexperience as scummyness. I'm sure you'll feel mighty good about yourself when I flip town.
And, now you're in the town pile for point 3. Thanks. :D.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
I will just say that you have all done a good job in showing me the other side of the arguement here, cos A. I understand the logic better now and B. I don't want this to carry on any further in the discussion until someone wishes to use it as a stuck to best me with in the game later, because its getting I between sound arguements be offered to decent scumtells.
What I will say though is regardless of the other comments Tom himself has already shown up my arguement by defending his list and the mechanics to it very well, to the point actually that I have referenced that same list myself to see if I can see what he means by those who have stood out as scummiest to him.
ITF though has been the biggest help do far, his arguement against mist stands out as the clearest, even with a few of his points matching against previous concerns raised by others.
All on mists response right now really.
Just strictly speculating here. Going under the assumption that we do in fact lynch MistShadow and she flips scum, who in your mind sticks out as a likely scumbuddy?
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Post 168: ImTehFairy, you said "Che is aggressive because that's his shtick" -- have you played with Che before? If so can you direct me to that game?
Post 184: I don't like this post at all. Saying "we can get Che on Day two" doesn't set well with me; it sounds as if you've already made the decision that both Mist and Che are scum. MRHblue, why would you put forth that idea if you didn't have an agenda? Can you elaborate as to why you're sure Che is scum?
Post 185: /barn the following from Polski re: Mist:
These posts are awful. In the first we have fearmongering and noob card usage, the next we have a claim that makes no sense at all.
I like post 185 a lot.
@ Mist: I'll second the notion that you need to claim now.
Post 205: I think the notion of Rhand intentionally trying to deceive newbies is a bit of a stretch. I've gone back over Rhand's posts and I'm just not seeing what you're seeing there; I'm not detecting any hints of deception from Rhand.
Rest of the post is solid stuff.
T/S List (on a scale of 1-5):
4.5: Rhand; LK; Polski
4.0: Generic
3.5: Tom; Shark
3.0: Petard
2.5: Che
2.0: No Reads
1.5: Mist
Omitted: Me (obv); ITF (new); MRHBlue (not enough content).
@ Che: Could I bother you for one of your most recent games (within the past three months) and an older game (more than six months old) please?
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EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Post 168: ImTehFairy, you said "Che is aggressive because that's his shtick" -- have you played with Che before? If so can you direct me to that game?
Nah, it's just obvious by the way he posts, that he's used to playing aggressively so most likely he would do it as town or scum. Plus I read a bit of Hobbit (which is ongoing so I don't want to talk about it) where he is similarly aggressive.
Quote from Shark »
Welcome ITF, you made a strong entrance, and I’ll happy vote MistShadow. I agree with your PBPA, specifically the “2nd sentence” and the ensuing response from Mist. That means I was wrong on my other point on a possible townMist. I did think it was a town-tell too, but I guess Tom may be right after all. For reference:
Do you still think your original point was a town-tell, or have you changed your mind on that specific tell?
It's a little odd that you assume you were wrong before Mist even flips.
It's amusing to see so many people be convinced by ITF about Mist, when pretty much all he did was combine what I had already said into one post
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@MRHblue: It's not a slip. That part of your post was bad and you should feel bad.
@Rhand: IGMEOY. I don't like your playing with words. I don't like your weak attacks. I don't like your twisting stuff. While we agree that you are over-analyzing me, I do not in turn feel that I am over-analyzing you. But no, there is nothing else I need you to address right now. So feel free to take the "step back" you feel you need to.
It doesn’t. It’s that he was pushing Tom for similar play as me. It’s inconsistent, so I am trying to understand if it was something I or he overlooked.
I misunderstood your post a bit then. I thought you were comparing your play to generic's, not Tom's. This alters my view of your post slightly.
But the most likely candidate in my mind is polski. I already have my suspicions about him based off his arguement with che, but his vote for mist almost felt like resignation to the fact she is going to be lynched. He even makes a very weird point about something about the wagon being off. If so, why toss in a vote?
I added my vote because the case against her is sound. I do think there's something suspicious about the wagon, but not so much that I won't vote for someone I believe to be scum.
But the thing about polskis vote with that little kicker of a 'concern' over the votes is this... What if mist is actually town? The evidence against her is building, but I wasn't sure of it until several variations of reasons why she is scummy started to flood in, and I'm as easily swayed by good logic as the next man. But what if polski is laying groundwork for the climb down if she flips town, cod them he can point to having voiced concerns over the lynch.
I'll go ahead and put it in writing now so I can't try to do this later: My qualm with the wagon has nothing to do with thinking Mist will flip town. I would be surprised if she did. No, there's something about the wagon that just seems.. off. It seems too easy. I imagine there's a pretty substantial amount of bussing going on here, if she does flip scum. If she flips town, my only real lead is on MRH, but it's mainly just a feeling.
MRHblue also had a vote I felt a little unsure about, but that vote came with a strong opinion surrounding it as to why, without any back door get out clause built into it.
Too easy? Not from my point of view. I've been fighting for Mist's lynch due to being obvscum almost all game and only recently after ITF compiled my points have we started to get some votes...
Thanks for feeding my ego, my ego needs it. It is always hungry
Yeah I guess I'll try to cut down on the walls of quotes, though they never bother me unless the text is really long. Walls of text are what bother me.
Voting someone is concrete and applies pressure. All a FoS does is keep you away from a possible bad lynch and keeps you under the radar. 2 things scum do. Nothing townie comes from a FoS, AT ALL.
I know this was quite a while back, but this post doesn't even make sense. I can see that one of the things scum allegedly do is keeping themself under the radar, but what's the other one?
@ImTehFairy: Nice PBPA. I can see what you mean by not mentioning Che at all... but to be honest, I hadn't been looking at posts too closely recently, I was busy with Tom attacking me.
Staying away from bad town lynch's.
T/S lists this early are silly.
This question was either looked over or ignored. I'd like to see it answered.
My answer is yes.
Mist feels noobtown.
@ Che: Could I bother you for one of your most recent games (within the past three months) and an older game (more than six months old) please?
Like I said this is one of three games I'm currently in for the first time here.
Vanilla claims are hard and usually push for a lynch.
They dont want to vote people or start wagons, ie bad lynches. You don't vote people, then when we look back at votecounts to find scum, your name is nowhere to be found. Just like you playing both side of Che / Polski so if one flips town you never had a bad word to say about them.
Unvote, Vote Mistshadow just a new scum without her sea legs yet
That's how mafia works. When someone does something scummy, press for it. Why would I not want mafia to feel pressure? If town feels pressure they won't crack because they have nothing to hide.
suspiciously worded?
And thats a slip. Che can claim its standard english, but 'we' there works just as well. We can get Che D2
I don't like this post much at all. IGMEOY
Do you not like my reason for voting Mist, or my thinking that was a slip by Che? Or both?
I'll go ahead and put it in writing now so I can't try to do this later: My qualm with the wagon has nothing to do with thinking Mist will flip town. I would be surprised if she did. No, there's something about the wagon that just seems.. off. It seems too easy. I imagine there's a pretty substantial amount of bussing going on here, if she does flip scum. If she flips town, my only real lead is on MRH, but it's mainly just a feeling.
MRHblue also had a vote I felt a little unsure about, but that vote came with a strong opinion surrounding it as to why, without any back door get out clause built into it.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I'm pretty sure the real-person Stardust will get you back for that eventually
Now now, don't say respond to everything or else I will quote every single post ever made on this thread and I think that would be considered spamming and it would take about 2 hours to do.
Alright, I'll go back and reply to the stuff I skimmed over very quickly.
MRHblue also had a vote I felt a little unsure about, but that vote came with a strong opinion surrounding it as to why, without any back door get out clause built into it.
This was not part of my post. It was a remainder of generic's post that I forgot to cut out while quoting him.
Your claim of Che's slip was shoddy, and it was the main thing I didn't like, and I pointed out why. Jumping in and voting Mist feels off as well, but as has been noted, you gave a solid reasoning so I can't really discredit you there. It just doesn't feel right.
It's amusing to see so many people be convinced by ITF about Mist, when pretty much all he did was combine what I had already said into one post
I know, it's weird. I mean, I like to think that I'm super awesome and convincing and stuff, but I thought I was going to have to fight much harder to get more votes on Mist.
Quote from Mistshadow »
In that case, I roleclaim Stardust, Vanilla Townie.
Can you paraphrase your flavor (don't copy paste, but put it in your own words)?
@MRH:
Your claim of Che's slip was shoddy, and it was the main thing I didn't like, and I pointed out why. Jumping in and voting Mist feels off as well, but as has been noted, you gave a solid reasoning so I can't really discredit you there. It just doesn't feel right.
Very well. All I can say is it looked bad to me. If the rest of the town feel mine was a bad call, duly noted.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I'm pretty sure the real-person Stardust will get you back for that eventually
Now now, don't say respond to everything or else I will quote every single post ever made on this thread and I think that would be considered spamming and it would take about 2 hours to do.
Alright, I'll go back and reply to the stuff I skimmed over very quickly.
Don't worry, he already has.
Also, I mean respond to everything people have asked you or have requested of you. Not every post in the game.
You keep promising content and stuff but keep failing to deliver... when can we expect you to give responses? And provide your thoughts on all the other stuff that has been going on this game, which you haven't done much of at all so far?
You are starting to concern me more than che was now...
Quote from Polski »
Jumping in and voting Mist feels off as well, but as has been noted, you gave a solid reasoning so I can't really discredit you there. It just doesn't feel right.
You know how that sounds? You really want to find a way to discredit him and his vote, but damn him for an effective and logical reasoning. And then just to make sure you have something to build on later, you get that funny feeling again... is it spidey senses perhaps? i would check outside to see if someone is being mugged or something.
Good post, I agree. Polski's comment really reads like his aim is to discredit, but "unfortunately can't" because the guy gave solid reasoning. And all that beauty is sandwiched between "doesn't feel right" comments.
Can someone clarify who is mentoring who in this game? In the signups it showed Generic with Cyouni and Mist with Iso, but in this thread it shows Generic with Iso and Mist with "???".
@Mist:
Do you think that the role names for the scum are gimmick accounts on MTGS?
Discredit was the wrong word. I was trying to find the flaw that I was so sure had to be there. I feel like there's something off in that post, and I want to know what, so I'm going to keep watch. If you want to label me scum for it that's your prerogative.
Very well. All I can say is it looked bad to me. If the rest of the town feel mine was a bad call, duly noted.
You seem unnaturally easy to sway. If it looked bad and still looks bad to you, fight us on it.
You did not sway me. You think it was not a slip, I wont press it more for now because multiple people said I was wrong. I will write it down as scum points for Che and keep working.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Can someone clarify who is mentoring who in this game? In the signups it showed Generic with Cyouni and Mist with Iso, but in this thread it shows Generic with Iso and Mist with "???".
There was a mixup with the mentors, Iso went ahead and started mentoring Generic, Mist is without a mentor as Cyouni dropped off the face of the earth. Any info in THIS THREAD is the accurate info.
Post 168: ImTehFairy, you said "Che is aggressive because that's his shtick" -- have you played with Che before? If so can you direct me to that game?
Nah, it's just obvious by the way he posts, that he's used to playing aggressively so most likely he would do it as town or scum. Plus I read a bit of Hobbit (which is ongoing so I don't want to talk about it) where he is similarly aggressive.
Quote from Shark »
Welcome ITF, you made a strong entrance, and I’ll happy vote MistShadow. I agree with your PBPA, specifically the “2nd sentence” and the ensuing response from Mist. That means I was wrong on my other point on a possible townMist. I did think it was a town-tell too, but I guess Tom may be right after all. For reference:
Do you still think your original point was a town-tell, or have you changed your mind on that specific tell?
It's a little odd that you assume you were wrong before Mist even flips.
I still think it can be a town tell. I've only started picking up on it recently, (mainly me using it as town), so I still think it's a town thing to say. But given added pressure and poor responses, that town feeling I thought I might have for Mist fell downward fast.
Aside: Starting to agree with Polski's posts, but need to look into it more to be sure.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Early on, Mist plays both sides of the Polski/Che thing.
She does something similar to what Polski did earlier, wanting to watch and wait. By itself, not too scummy for a new player, but it's odd because there's plenty going on with the two people she's voiced suspicion of (che and polski).
Generic also does this with his double FoS, which I didn't like, but I got a stronger gut town reaction to his earlier posts.
She apologizes for her attack, which tends to come from scum. Townies are more likely to hold their convictions or attacks, even if they're misguided, because they had an original solid reason for it. At the very least, they can explain why they made the interpretation that they did, which she does do later on... but it doesn't really make much sense.
She asks about what's scummy about her, which is something scum worry about more.
Already been brought up, but I don't understand why she would ask that as town. Town typically do as much as they can with how much time they have, regardless of how it's seen. Even her explanation:
makes little sense. Why does the bottom point need to be seen to find equilibrium? And why do you need to get at equilibrium anyway?
Second paragraph bothers me. Mainly the second sentence; she shouldn't need to tell us that she's genuinely concerned to find scum, it should be apparent.
It's good that she wants to look back at this game and look for stuff (and I do want to see what she thinks)... but it took Tom prodding her constantly to do it. Up until now, she hasn't given any suspicions other than Polski and Che, which Polski she retconned, and Che she hasn't mentioned since. Despite what she says, I see way more concern over how she looks than who she thinks is scum.
Vote Mistshadow
I know this was quite a while back, but this post doesn't even make sense. I can see that one of the things scum allegedly do is keeping themself under the radar, but what's the other one?
@ImTehFairy: Nice PBPA. I can see what you mean by not mentioning Che at all... but to be honest, I hadn't been looking at posts too closely recently, I was busy with Tom attacking me.
I'm generally good at making sense of poor wording. This is the internet after all, I'd be lost if I couldn't
I'll start working on something tonight. Just have to keep my nose to the grindstone.
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It's below.
If you are being honest now, what were you being before?
Huehuehue
If you still feel the way you do, I'm not sure I understand why you are unvoting me.
In response to your thoughts, let me put it this way. Our ultimate goal is to lynch the scum. There are two tools that help in doing that: finding who is scum and finding who is not scum (town). We want to use both those tools. So if we suspect someone is town, there isn't much reason not to point it out (unless you are scum, where you want to keep suspicion on as many players as practically possible). Usually reasoning accompanies the pointing out, although I did not provide any (I could if asked, but don't find it extremely important at this point in time anyway, as reads change, yada yada).
Other circumstances in which calling someone town or leaning town could be useful is when you are trying to give a player a false sense of security.
Not really your fault, I have not posted much content yet.
They dont want to vote people or start wagons, ie bad lynches. You don't vote people, then when we look back at votecounts to find scum, your name is nowhere to be found. Just like you playing both side of Che / Polski so if one flips town you never had a bad word to say about them.
Unvote, Vote Mistshadow just a new scum without her sea legs yet
This is just a mudsling.
And thats a slip. Che can claim its standard english, but 'we' there works just as well. We can get Che D2
For a player that visits this forum regularly, this would smell a bit of OMGUS. Given that generic's usual mafia experience seems to differ from the standard here by a significant amount, I'm unsure of how to evaluate this. Noted for future reference.
This question was either looked over or ignored. I'd like to see it answered.
This doesn't feel right. While in the same vein as my initial play, there had been a notably greater amount of content when she made this claim. To think that she couldn't find anything to comment on is suspect. Lurky.
This vote is very weak, simply put. I'm willing to give it a pass for now given petard's green nature, but it's noted for future reference.
These posts are awful. In the first we have fearmongering and noob card usage, the next we have a claim that makes no sense at all.
How was I fearmongering? I simply said that I didn't want the game to go too quickly. I made no mention of why it would be bad until after I was questioned about it.
This is some pretty blatant buddying.
Just a nitpick, while it's true that scum do worry about this more than town, it's a valid question for both sides to ask. Having your detractors explain what they see as scummy can allow you to show your side of things and possibly help them see reason if you're simply misunderstood town.
I don't believe that's the case here, but I felt I should mention it.
can you explain your unvote please? I don't see the reasoning here.
I can see how if it's not common practice for you and yours, that you might see it as scummy. However, it is common practice here, for town and scum (from what I've seen, anyway.) Is it fair to call something scummy if town regularly practice it as well?
I don't like this post much at all. IGMEOY
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Mist is the most obvious candidate for a lynch, but something about her wagon feels off. I'm going to be watching carefully. For now though, Vote Mistshadow
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So... Unvote Che, Vote Mistshadow
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The answers to your questions:
* Polski's fearmongering: To me the post came off as trying to slow us down. Slowing down is the one thing town does never want. If we stall, we make it easy for scum to choose the lynches. Polski seemed to want us to be afraid to go too fast.
* Has there never been a time when you were town and didn't have anything to add, whether it was because certain questions needed to be answered first or otherwise?: Yes. What I missed in Polski's post was a good explanation why he didn't have anything to add; what he was waiting for. That's what I see as avoiding content.
Is there anything else you need me to adress?
@Generic: T/S lists are not inherently scummy. And, as has been pointed out several times, Shark did one first and you never commented on that.
I'm worried about the mindset with which you look at it: you only see the scum gain of T/S lists and not the town gain. When a scum flips and that scum has posted T/S lists, those lists contain a treasure of information to analyse.
@ImTehFairy: (This is about post #178. If needed I can do this again with quotes, but this game is getting too many quotewalls.)
What is wrong with "playing the two sides" of the Polski/Che thing?
I don't like how you give yourself an excuse for pursuing Mist and not Generic for what you say is the same thing. Basically you're saying that it's ok for town to do so because you have a gut town read on Generic, but if Mist does it it means he's scum.
The rest of your case is solid. I want to see Mist respond to it in more detail. I'm particularly concerned about how Mist immediately after you pointing out that she dropped Che digs up a post from him.
@Polski: I like post #185 a lot. The quote from petard that you pulled out is a good find. It has the same effect as a FOS. If petard or Che flips scum, this is important.
Can you go in detail on why you don't like MRHblue's post?
unvote Polski
I want to vote Mist, but I have no idea how many votes she's at.
Mistshadow (4) - iRebel, ImTehFairy, MRHBlue, Polski
Che Guevara (1) - SharkFinnigan
Not Voting - LenKenneth, Mistshadow, Generic, Rhand
With 12 Users logged in, it will take 7 reports to ban a player.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
of things, not to things
Generally speaking, someone who creates a list of town/mafia will have a vote on one of their mafia reads. If someone created a T/S list, listed at least one person as heavily leaning mafia (or red, by rainbow standards*) and didn't vote them, then there'd be great cause for alarm and suspicion.
*I think that might be the silliest thing I've ever said in a serious manner.
FoS, on the other hand, is basically outdated, from what I've gathered. Aside from using it to denote someone you consider sketchy when your vote is already placed, there's little reason to use it.
I'll admit, I believe the way you used it to be fine, but many people get certain tells so hard-set in their minds that context means little to them, and knee-jerk reactions are bound to happen.
@Rhand: In regards to MRH, the thing that sets me on edge more than anything is that he jumps in and uses awful reasoning that has already been refuted to try and designate Che as Tomorrow's lynch. It wasn't a slip. Plain and simple.
Using a 'slip' as a reason for calling someone scum is iffy, in my book. While it's true that a real slip is golden, calling someone out on a slip is a downright lazy and dangerous means by which to attack someone. You don't have to answer for any of their previous posts, because supposedly this one just has to mean that they're scum. You can ignore the entirety of a case for why someone might be town and tunnel that one point, because if you can convince everyone it's a scum slip, that person is done for. That's not effective or wise, and it's much more likely that scum would do it than town.
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T/S lists aren't necessarily "good"; they help both teams. Giving a T/S list is null really.
In my opinion, so is a FoS: it gets used by town and scum alike. The exception is that a flipped scum that used the FoS tool has often pointed out his buddy with the FoS. (but Tom called this WIFOM, so opinions differ on this).
We've got the habit of letting someone claim when (s)he's 2 votes away from getting lynched. We don't accidentally want to lynch a PR that can prove his alignment.
A hammer ends the day and hence also the communication. Because behavioural analysis is our most important tool, it makes no sense to end the day early.
Mist is at L-2 now, so she should claim.
My initial read of Mist was one of sincere noobishness. The way she responded to Fairy's case convinced me she's noob scum.
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While that's true, her defense seems to be her primary concern. I could understand if she were being bombarded by everyone right out the gate, as I know from experience that defending yourself takes time, but it was really just Tom at that point. Most of the focus was on other people.
Basically this. The problem with putting suspicion on both major suspects is that, no matter which way it goes down later, you can point back to it and say "look, I was right about that person!" or "Oh, see, I wasn't that sure". It gives you more wiggle room, and if it was a bad wagon people might be less likely to look back at you if you were unsure.
Part of the reason I didn't think the way Generic did it was as bad was that he resolved it almost immediately by voting Che. I can also understand him doing that if FoSes are normal on his forum.
Oh and thanks Rhand for less quote walls. I think I answered your question here.
~
I want Mist to at least respond to whatever she feels she needs to respond to before she claims. There's still quite a few people that haven't checked in since Mist started getting votes.
Her response to my case was... weird. I'm trying to think back to times when somebody thanked me / complimented my case against them, because it's an odd mindset... only remember one time and they were scum, but that's hardly a good sample size. Can't remember any times as town, town tend to be much more indignant, even the times where I was convinced they were scum and I made what I thought was a good case.
It does show that she is polite in general.
I already said that I want her to defend herself against Fairy's case more in detail. I still want to see that.
@Fairy: That indeed answers my question.
False information, fear mongering. There's a few sublties I'd think that could be slid in and go unnoticed by untrained eye. Given I know only a few players with some real experience (You and Rhand I know, I semi-knew of 22bebo, and only sort of know ITF), it could be really easy for the experienced scum player to turn a town of new players into sheep.
I’m not saying Rhand is scum by any stretch at this point, but it’s something that I have to be aware of at all times.
I was asking because yes, I made a list similar to his and you attack him for it over me. It’s an inconsistent mindset that I wanted to address. I mean if there’s something different from Tom’s and mine, then that’s understandable, but I am trying to at least understand your process to then see if you are either onto something (because I’m missing the buddying from town), or that you just overlooked my view.
It doesn’t. It’s that he was pushing Tom for similar play as me. It’s inconsistent, so I am trying to understand if it was something I or he overlooked.
There is a benefit to having these lists. It can be useful when trying to understand another players point of view. If they have a player in an alignment for poor reasoning, it could mean that they are scumbuddies. Additionally, suppose I just decided to vote Rhand or you out of the blue. You can now go back and see that I had you as pretty town and that I made a vote with little to no indication on changing views. That’s pretty scummy to me. It’s helpful for both town/scum to use.
TL;DR: T/S lists are present in a lot of games here. Level of use depends on players. Mostly by mid-level players. Good to understand other players PoV and a tool for town to exploit if scum makes some.
Welcome ITF, you made a strong entrance, and I’ll happy vote MistShadow. I agree with your PBPA, specifically the “2nd sentence” and the ensuing response from Mist. That means I was wrong on my other point on a possible townMist. I did think it was a town-tell too, but I guess Tom may be right after all. For reference:
—Lazav
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Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Just strictly speculating here. Going under the assumption that we do in fact lynch MistShadow and she flips scum, who in your mind sticks out as a likely scumbuddy?
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Post 168: ImTehFairy, you said "Che is aggressive because that's his shtick" -- have you played with Che before? If so can you direct me to that game?
Post 184: I don't like this post at all. Saying "we can get Che on Day two" doesn't set well with me; it sounds as if you've already made the decision that both Mist and Che are scum. MRHblue, why would you put forth that idea if you didn't have an agenda? Can you elaborate as to why you're sure Che is scum?
Post 185: /barn the following from Polski re: Mist:
I like post 185 a lot.
@ Mist: I'll second the notion that you need to claim now.
Post 205: I think the notion of Rhand intentionally trying to deceive newbies is a bit of a stretch. I've gone back over Rhand's posts and I'm just not seeing what you're seeing there; I'm not detecting any hints of deception from Rhand.
Rest of the post is solid stuff.
T/S List (on a scale of 1-5):
4.5: Rhand; LK; Polski
4.0: Generic
3.5: Tom; Shark
3.0: Petard
2.5: Che
2.0: No Reads
1.5: Mist
Omitted: Me (obv); ITF (new); MRHBlue (not enough content).
@ Che: Could I bother you for one of your most recent games (within the past three months) and an older game (more than six months old) please?
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
This is not correct, you have me voting twice. My vote is for Mist.
Tom's vote is missing.
Nah, it's just obvious by the way he posts, that he's used to playing aggressively so most likely he would do it as town or scum. Plus I read a bit of Hobbit (which is ongoing so I don't want to talk about it) where he is similarly aggressive.
Do you still think your original point was a town-tell, or have you changed your mind on that specific tell?
It's a little odd that you assume you were wrong before Mist even flips.
Polski (1) - Che Guevara
Mistshadow (5) - iRebel, Tom, ImTehFairy, MRHBlue, Polski
Che Guevara (1) - SharkFinnigan
Not Voting - LenKenneth, petard, Mistshadow, Generic, Rhand
With 12 Users logged in, it will take 7 reports to ban a player.
This is what I get for updating the votecount first thing in the morning.
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@MRHblue: It's not a slip. That part of your post was bad and you should feel bad.
@Rhand: IGMEOY. I don't like your playing with words. I don't like your weak attacks. I don't like your twisting stuff. While we agree that you are over-analyzing me, I do not in turn feel that I am over-analyzing you. But no, there is nothing else I need you to address right now. So feel free to take the "step back" you feel you need to.
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Waiting for Mist to respond and claim.
I misunderstood your post a bit then. I thought you were comparing your play to generic's, not Tom's. This alters my view of your post slightly.
I added my vote because the case against her is sound. I do think there's something suspicious about the wagon, but not so much that I won't vote for someone I believe to be scum.
I'll go ahead and put it in writing now so I can't try to do this later: My qualm with the wagon has nothing to do with thinking Mist will flip town. I would be surprised if she did. No, there's something about the wagon that just seems.. off. It seems too easy. I imagine there's a pretty substantial amount of bussing going on here, if she does flip scum. If she flips town, my only real lead is on MRH, but it's mainly just a feeling.
MRHblue also had a vote I felt a little unsure about, but that vote came with a strong opinion surrounding it as to why, without any back door get out clause built into it.
Does that answer your question there?[/QUOTE]
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I'm a very apologetic person. Usually. (Not if I'm pissed off at someone. xP)
So that in future games I'm not accused of lurking or being too aggressive.
@Tom: I think I already answered that question, I'll go see if I can dig it up in a minute.
@Everyone: I've just quickly looked over the new posts and you all have asked me to roleclaim.
In that case, I roleclaim Stardust, Vanilla Townie.
Stardust? Then you are definitely scum!
Make sure you respond to everything please.
@Polski:
Too easy? Not from my point of view. I've been fighting for Mist's lynch due to being obvscum almost all game and only recently after ITF compiled my points have we started to get some votes...
Yeah I guess I'll try to cut down on the walls of quotes, though they never bother me unless the text is really long. Walls of text are what bother me.
Staying away from bad town lynch's.
T/S lists this early are silly.
My answer is yes.
Mist feels noobtown.
Like I said this is one of three games I'm currently in for the first time here.
Vanilla claims are hard and usually push for a lynch.
Do you not like my reason for voting Mist, or my thinking that was a slip by Che? Or both?
Do you mean mine had a strong opinion, or yours?
I'm pretty sure the real-person Stardust will get you back for that eventually
Now now, don't say respond to everything or else I will quote every single post ever made on this thread and I think that would be considered spamming and it would take about 2 hours to do.
Alright, I'll go back and reply to the stuff I skimmed over very quickly.
This was not part of my post. It was a remainder of generic's post that I forgot to cut out while quoting him.
Your claim of Che's slip was shoddy, and it was the main thing I didn't like, and I pointed out why. Jumping in and voting Mist feels off as well, but as has been noted, you gave a solid reasoning so I can't really discredit you there. It just doesn't feel right.
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I know, it's weird. I mean, I like to think that I'm super awesome and convincing and stuff, but I thought I was going to have to fight much harder to get more votes on Mist.
Can you paraphrase your flavor (don't copy paste, but put it in your own words)?
I respect that, but its incorrect here. If you have something specific, please ask.
"You used to be a Global Mod, but resigned, although you still despise gimmicks; you might even single-handedly catch one if you've got enough skill."
Don't worry, he already has.
Also, I mean respond to everything people have asked you or have requested of you. Not every post in the game.
You keep promising content and stuff but keep failing to deliver... when can we expect you to give responses? And provide your thoughts on all the other stuff that has been going on this game, which you haven't done much of at all so far?
Holy smokin cows in the sky, more scum mindset.
Good post, I agree. Polski's comment really reads like his aim is to discredit, but "unfortunately can't" because the guy gave solid reasoning. And all that beauty is sandwiched between "doesn't feel right" comments.
I'm starting to like Polski quite a bit less.
You seem unnaturally easy to sway. If it looked bad and still looks bad to you, fight us on it.
@Mist:
Do you think that the role names for the scum are gimmick accounts on MTGS?
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes WW
Modern
WBMartyr-Proc BW
There was a mixup with the mentors, Iso went ahead and started mentoring Generic, Mist is without a mentor as Cyouni dropped off the face of the earth. Any info in THIS THREAD is the accurate info.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
about reverberate
Basically If you see this word you don't need to read the rest of the post.
I still think it can be a town tell. I've only started picking up on it recently, (mainly me using it as town), so I still think it's a town thing to say. But given added pressure and poor responses, that town feeling I thought I might have for Mist fell downward fast.
Aside: Starting to agree with Polski's posts, but need to look into it more to be sure.
—Lazav
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Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I really hope you aren't trying to imply something here.
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes WW
Modern
WBMartyr-Proc BW