That was directed at DYH - the quote was showing him why I was 'directing the cop' as he derided me for doing.
I think Caex is more likely town than scum. Mostly because claiming unprotectable doesn't mesh with a scum mindset for me. He'd want to draw the doc rather than not, if he were scum. I also think lynching or vigging him day/night one is beyond stupid, and can't fathom why people want to.
I want him to check one of DYH or Seppel, preferrably DYH at this point given his recent behavior.
I want to lynch Xyre.
I'm not sure enough that DYH is scum vs. tunneling town to go that route, and Xyre is my strongest scum read in a vacuum,
I think Caex is more likely town than scum. Mostly because claiming unprotectable doesn't mesh with a scum mindset for me. He'd want to draw the doc rather than not, if he were scum. I also think lynching or vigging him day/night one is beyond stupid, and can't fathom why people want to.
Claiming unblockable doesn't mesh with a town mindset either, by the same logic.
Claiming unprotectable, but not unblockable would have been optimal if he is town, I agree - but I can see town just trueclaiming everything rather than hiding part of his role at claim range.
I just don't see scum claiming unprotectable and unblockable. It means he doesn't have any 'outs' - he can't claim to be roleblocked, he can't draw the protection - it does nothing other than extend his life a day or two at most if he's scum fakeclaiming.
Lynching him is stupid for that reason alone - if he's town, we get a guaranteed check, or scum shoot him.
If he's scum, and still alive in a day or two, we lynch/vig him, and yay dead scum.
The only reason to lynch him now is if there's a counterclaim - doing otherwise completely discards the benefit we generate from leaving him alive in Town!Caex worlds.
Not Voting (3): Stardust, WellOfLostGnomes, zindabad
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Day One will end no later than 11:59PM, Tuesday, May 7th.
You know what, I just noticed one thing.
Xyre has managed to extract a claim from me, Cy, Caex and Voxx. Even though he did participate in all those wagons and now Wessel's in the end he didn't want to lynch any of them. Most importantly Xyre is now voting Wessel.
How can someone who is a real watcher doesn't want to solve this dichotomy? Why on earth Xyre is not wanting to see Cy or Caex blood? Because if I was a watcher and two other guys claimed similar investigative roles I would certainly be suspicious as hell, and not pushing for the sixth claim in a row.
Xyre's behavior makes no sense from a watcher standpoint, look at Cy for example, after Xyre claimed watcher he put his vote on him and never let go, this is what I would do in his position, not the insane fishing Xyre's doing. In fact even if Xyre is lynched toDay he will probably manage to get scum MVP, because getting like 5 claims D1 and not being instantly lynched is like a new world record.
ToDay I'm voting for either Caex or Xyre and you all should be doing that too.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Claiming unblockable, but not unprotectable would have been optimal for scum, but Caex has admitted to not playing optimally. I can see scum trueclaiming this ability rather than hiding a part of his role at claim range. This is a null point.
Let me point you back to the part where he claimed unblockable.
2. Because if I came back D2 and said "Sorry guys, no result because of roleblock" there was a pretty good chance I'd be lynched. They could 2-for-1 the town by getting in a NK on a stronger player and blocking me. I was trying to get off at least one investigation before I die.
Why would he say this as town, knowing that scenario would never happen? Why would he plan for that? This is a scum mindset; if he were telling the truth, he would know a block on him would be unsuccessful and better for the team. He knew exactly what he was doing falseclaiming this.
That was directed at DYH - the quote was showing him why I was 'directing the cop' as he derided me for doing.
Ah yes, so it was. Carry on.
So this is really hard. I was hoping that catch on Voxx would pan out so I wouldn't have to think about this. But I'm pretty sure he's town. Caex is probably my biggest scum read in a vacuum, but I really don't want to lynch him today since if he is town the mafia are going to be pretty stuck. Xyre's looking worse all the time, but it's hard to believe that both he and Caex would be scum. Unless he was just bussing really hard. That might actually make sense with how illogical he was being at times - just go totally over the top for maximum distance. Cyouni's the most easily proved, so I'm good with letting him off the hook today.
Of the outsiders, zindabad and Zionite are the two that I would feel more comfortable lynching today. Many people have complained about the number of claims we've had already, but I don't think we have a choice but to look elsewhere. The mafia's actions tonight (or, failing that, the lynch of Caex tomorrow) will sort everything out. I think another claim is better than forcing the dichotomy before its time when it will be solved for us tonight.
2. You said your plan was to be roleblocked. Why wouldn't they just kill you instead?
2. Because if I came back D2 and said "Sorry guys, no result because of roleblock" there was a pretty good chance I'd be lynched. They could 2-for-1 the town by getting in a NK on a stronger player and blocking me. I was trying to get off at least one investigation before I die.
This is such a bad misrep. ++town points for Caex and
QUOTE]This is incorrect. You know how to solve dichotomies and you know how to play as scum. Scum know exactly who's lying and who's not and they know if they kill the PR they will be outed, scum will never NK the power until lylo, they will just play around them, by carefully choosing targets and redirect/roleblock/something usage.
In a perfect world, sure. One where, oh I don't know, maybe the Cop could be roleblocked? C'mon, DRey.
Quote from DRey »
For example, imagine scum know the tracker is real, they know who Cy suspects so they will either choose someone on Cy's town pile to do the NK or they will just roleblock him.
We agree fundamentally here, and this is exactly why, Voxx, you do not direct the claimed cop. Even if he's asking for "help" - which he shouldn't be doing.
Quote from DRey »
We know there's scum between Caex, Xyre, Cy and he should discover it as quick as possible. We also have a vig to go through the dichotomy it faster. The more we let the dichotomy live the less powerful my shot is because if I go with my gut I risk choosing the very same guy the doc protect and the scum kill. If we don't sort this dichotomy as quick as possible my hands are tied.
Yes, in all likelihood, there is at least one scum in that pile. But No. No, no, no, no, no - we do not need to discover that "as soon as possible" - you wait until tomorrow to try and A) extract as much information as possible and B) hope to catch one in a lie ensuring you lynch the right damn person. This is not hard.
Quote from DRey »
You are a good player, don't you trust your own capabilities of rereading and sorting the scum between those guys?
I have my guess on which one(s), sure, but I'd rather go the safer route listed above.
Quote from DRey »
I know I can. Caex play as cop makes no sense, his claim also makes no sense because role would harm both the doc and the roleblocker for choosing correctly, and he claiming to be unroleblocable makes no ****ing sense if he was town (also have you noticed everytime this point is brought up he answer everything else but this? Go check it out strawman at it's finest). If I was town with his claimed role I would never reveal to the scum that I was unroleblocable I would try to pull it to me instead, maybe even claiming to die if I was roleblocked or something like that.
So here it is - you finally come out and say it. No, the role is not "broken" - it's elegant. It guarantees the cop gets results and that he gets dead when he claims. I like it.
Furthermore, of the group Caex claimed first. So, unless you think he was ready to admit defeat, go down in flames that early in the game, he doesn't false-claim cop there. Xyre's claim is sketchy, and Cyouni's is flat-out convenient. If they'd claimed in reverse order, with Caex last, I'd be in agreement with you on him being the likely scum. As it is, I think it's Cyouni, but I'm not willing to bet a mislynch on it.
And Voxx continues directing the cop. Are you just willfully ignorant of how scummy this is even after it's been pointed out, or just trying to ensure it's wasted? I have a good guess.
No, what I "am" is right a hell of a lot on Day 1. It's called confidence. That's the word you're looking for.
Are you even reading the game?
Quote from Caex »
I came up with a list, but I wanted suggestions from people as per the whole "investigate one of these three at random" plan. As I said before if the town wants to direct me in a specific direction I'll happily do that instead of choosing my own targets.
If I had to guess, I'd say you're skimming the game because, y'know. You're scum and don't need to figure out what's going on.
Wrong - as I mentioned above. Perhaps I should ask if you're reading the game since I already covered "leading the cop being scummy" previously and then you did it again. You failed to give that reasoning the first time. That's probably because Caex' post about asking for help came afterward. So, explain that. And also, why you were directing the vig, then.
Quote from Voxx »
And if you somehow are just playing terribly as town and tunneling, then pull your head out of ass and do something productive.
Here's an idea: stop with the appeals to ego and ad homs. Or don't - it just further cements my scum read on you. You pick.
Is zindabad still playing catch-up? I thought we were passed all that when he was commenting on current events. I guess he only jumps in when current events relate to him? Scum tactics looking more likely than earlier...
Yep; he went on a posting binge when he got in trouble and has since disappeared.
Quote from Stardust »
Offering yourself as a lynch is disingenuous. People will be lynched based on behaviour, not on how hard they were wrong about a townie. Both Zionite and DRey should know that a lynch offering like this should never follow through based on the offer alone, making this an appeal to emotion. You're probably right about Caex, but this addition is terrible. If he flips town, I'll be bringing this up again.
Not Voting (3): Stardust, WellOfLostGnomes, zindabad
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Day One will end no later than 11:59PM, Tuesday, May 7th.
You know what, I just noticed one thing.
Xyre has managed to extract a claim from me, Cy, Caex and Voxx. Even though he did participate in all those wagons and now Wessel's in the end he didn't want to lynch any of them. Most importantly Xyre is now voting Wessel.
How can someone who is a real watcher doesn't want to solve this dichotomy? Why on earth Xyre is not wanting to see Cy or Caex blood? Because if I was a watcher and two other guys claimed similar investigative roles I would certainly be suspicious as hell, and not pushing for the sixth claim in a row.
Xyre's behavior makes no sense from a watcher standpoint, look at Cy for example, after Xyre claimed watcher he put his vote on him and never let go, this is what I would do in his position, not the insane fishing Xyre's doing. In fact even if Xyre is lynched toDay he will probably manage to get scum MVP, because getting like 5 claims D1 and not being instantly lynched is like a new world record.
ToDay I'm voting for either Caex or Xyre and you all should be doing that too.
I already said this: I think one of Caex and Cyouni is scum. However, we have no damn way of figuring out which of the three of us is lying today. Lynching any of us passes up the chance to compare notes tomorrow to gain more information.
And if memory serves, I had nothing to do with getting Voxxicus to claim.
And what do you suggest I do? Cut my losses and flip a coin on Caex/Cyouni? I'd rather apply pressure on players whom I think are scum and worth pursuing while we still have time today. I think such a strategy is more productive.
And Stardust's last post reads like the groundwork for a bus, especially after his weird defense of Wessel previously.
What does this even mean? You asked me to tell you why I thought your case was bad, and I did so. That has no bearing on either of our alignments. I also question the logic of choosing to bus someone this late in Day 1 - if I was scum with Wessel that move would make no sense after what's already happened toDay.
Damnit Wessel, you are scum, aren't you? That stream of consciousness last paragraph there feels really really fake.
By "groundwork for a bus", I mean the post reads like preparation for later saying "I once thought Wessel was town, but on the basis of this post (which you can see I suspected here) and others I've changed my mind".
Mafia rules state that anyone not on the player list is not allowed to post in an ongoing game thread. Cyouni's claimed role gives an extra vote to a player so I assume that I'll have two separate votes tomorrow.
I'm feeling continuously better about Voxx with every post he makes. DYH is solidly in my town category, along with Seppel and Stardust.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Well, since Xyre decided to let it out of the bag, yes, one of WoLG / Iso is Smeagol and the other is Gollum. I suspect one is Mafia and the other is Town.
Well, since Xyre decided to let it out of the bag, yes, one of WoLG / Iso is Smeagol and the other is Gollum. I suspect one is Mafia and the other is Town.
That's as much as I can deduce.
I'm reading this post as you saying you knew about this innately. Am I right in thinking so?
I already said this: I think one of Caex and Cyouni is scum. However, we have no damn way of figuring out which of the three of us is lying today. Lynching any of us passes up the chance to compare notes tomorrow to gain more information.
And if memory serves, I had nothing to do with getting Voxxicus to claim.
And what do you suggest I do? Cut my losses and flip a coin on Caex/Cyouni? I'd rather apply pressure on players whom I think are scum and worth pursuing while we still have time today. I think such a strategy is more productive.
1)I don't really remember how involved you were in Voxx, but you just agreed you were involved with all other claims, and you know what? that's quite enough to me. This is not townXyre, townXyre barks and bite, not bark and retreat.
2)You should apply pressure, extract claims and then lynch. Applying pressure, extract claims and then backtracking is not indicative of town, but of scum fishing for claims. And you have done that tons of time toDay.
3)I'm usually not a fan of "slips" but I think this one you just made quite definitive. I have no more doubts.
unvote, vote Xyre
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Well, since Xyre decided to let it out of the bag, yes, one of WoLG / Iso is Smeagol and the other is Gollum. I suspect one is Mafia and the other is Town.
That's as much as I can deduce.
Again baseless, inutile speculation. Keep doing smokescreens Seppel, it's really working. Not for what you are hoping to accomplish though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
If we were scumbuddies and I wanted to bus him, I would have just counterclaimed him.
Yeah because the optimum play as scum is to ensure a scum lynch D1.
Why not? Caex was halfway dead. I counter-claim him, I draw the doc protection, AND people wouldn't smell a bus - they'd smell a bad scum gambit by Caex. Only risk is if there really is a cop. Which is a pretty small risk, all told.
It's certainly more effective a plan than what you seem to think I've done, which is hold back on a claim of an information role, try to get the cop lynched based on logic nobody agrees (and then persist in believing it's a good plan in the face of such disagreement), come up with a plan that basically condemns Caex if he comes back alive tomorrow, then claim information role and not treat it as a counter-claim...
That's my tactical plan? Do I have all that right?
I already said this: I think one of Caex and Cyouni is scum. However, we have no damn way of figuring out which of the three of us is lying today. Lynching any of us passes up the chance to compare notes tomorrow to gain more information.
And if memory serves, I had nothing to do with getting Voxxicus to claim.
And what do you suggest I do? Cut my losses and flip a coin on Caex/Cyouni? I'd rather apply pressure on players whom I think are scum and worth pursuing while we still have time today. I think such a strategy is more productive.
1)I don't really remember how involved you were in Voxx, but you just agreed you were involved with all other claims, and you know what? that's quite enough to me. This is not townXyre, townXyre barks and bite, not bark and retreat.
2)You should apply pressure, extract claims and then lynch. Applying pressure, extract claims and then backtracking is not indicative of town, but of scum fishing for claims. And you have done that tons of time toDay.
3)I'm usually not a fan of "slips" but I think this one you just made quite definitive. I have no more doubts.
unvote, vote Xyre
1) I retreat when it's not worth biting. Remember Asian in Ataghan? Maybe that was before you replaced in. I suspected him, drove him to a claim, then backed off when I wasn't certain and saw the possibilities in his claim. (He was a bodyguard who could unlock bulletproofing, effectively becoming a doc.)
2) Again, not true. I already mentioned how many people I voiced suspicion of and then backed away from in Ataghan already. But to refresh your memory: Guardman, Asian, Tanarin, Cythare, etc.
Aggressive play is defined not by its aggression but by its prudence. You know what they call the aggressive townie who lynches three of his buddies? The LVP.
3) Oh, please, DRey. That's not a slip - I did that on purpose. I'm acknowledging suspicions of me, not confessing. Your opinion of me must really be slight, if you think I'm the type to say something like that - to say anything at all, really - on accident.
Question for the town: If you remove Caex's claim from the equation, how would you describe his behavior?
Still not good, I agree with you. But I feel like there's no reason available why we wouldn't just test Caex, Cy, and me out tonight. If Caex comes back alive tomorrow, there's no reason to believe he's not scum, and then we lynch him hard.
And if Caex is town, then the mafia pretty much are forced to kill him and roleblock me (since I'd watch Caex to see who targeted him), so Cyouni's in the clear. (This works even if I'm scum, because I couldn't pretend to be roleblocked and have a real roleblock result on a townie pop up.)
The only troublesome case is if Cyouni's the scum among us three, but his ability's pretty testable, since he also gives away a double vote. We just micromanage him and keep testing him to make sure he's indeed tracking his target. (Tell him to target someone we choose, then have him tell us what that player did last night, then have that player confirm or deny without saying what ability he used if any, for example.)
Well, since Xyre decided to let it out of the bag, yes, one of WoLG / Iso is Smeagol and the other is Gollum. I suspect one is Mafia and the other is Town.
That's as much as I can deduce.
I'm reading this post as you saying you knew about this innately. Am I right in thinking so?
@Zionite: I figured out what's going on with WoLG but it's pointless to reveal now. Stop prodding, but think about characters from the movie/book and draw your own conclusions.
I mean, maybe? It seems like it would be a kind of crazy strategy, though, because at least one of them is totally lying about the key element of his role (the investigative part), and that basically means their strategy is "step on his toes and hope I don't break them" which seems really unfortunate a plan.
I think it's more likely Caex is scum and Cyouni is town, just based on the fact that Cyouni's role seems kind of weird for a scum, but I'm not at all confident in that verdict enough to think lynching one of them before getting our results is a good idea.
You wanted to lynch Caex before. Now probably-town Cyouni comes out, and you're not sure? Can you give some detail on what else caused that shift?
Cyouni had nothing to do with my willingness or lack thereof to lynch Caex today. I wanted to lynch him before I thought of the "one of the random three" investigation plan. Cyouni makes it more likely Caex is scum, but we'll know that more definitively tomorrow.
I'll be honest, I don't see what big advantage the random three gives, but thanks for the answer anyway.
Because
a) Caex will investigate someone we suspect, and
b) the mafia can't know whom he'll investigate to try to shoot that player to incriminate Caex if he's town.
So if Caex is town and we pick three players among whom there are enough real scum to make the mafia afraid of the results he might get, they're better off shooting him.
Please don't even act like I'm lurking the same here as I was in cyberspace, because it's not even comparable.
Cyberspace - Lynched Day 3, 126 posts over 2-3 months.
Hobbit - Still Day 1, 81 posts over 1 month.
So, no response to what I said? Explain to me how those posts are different.
Unvote.
MeandIso: "This game is turning into a $#&!ING mess!"
Ok. I really have no idea where to go from here. I've never played in a mini with a watcher/tracker/cop/vig/doc on the same side. The scum team would have to be really powerful to make up for that.
Can we risk any more claims today? I'm thinking that a mass claim is a bad idea for today, but we'll probably need to run someone else up unless we can all come to a consensus on who to lynch. I'm not okay with lynching any of the claimed investigation roles today.
I strongly doubt they're all town, and I don't want to mass-claim on D1 (or even hear another claim today.)
especially not with someone apparently not fully caught up yet.
So I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't? If I do nothing and apply all my time to catching up, I get blamed for not paying attention to current events. If I address more recent material, I get handwaved for not being caught up?
Also I don't understand your point- what does me thinking Xyre reminds me of scumZDS have to do with having DRey as a bigger suspect?
It just looks like a thoughtless smear, is all. You bring up ZDS not because you really suspect Xyre but because you want to compare him unflatteringly to a previous interrogator who was scum. You go with DRey as the easy choice for your #1 scum because you don't want to really go toe-to-toe with Xyre.
I don't know what you want me to answer here, but it's true- up till that point I'd mostly been dealing with others, mainly Xyre and DRey. Cyouni when he replaced in started asking questions that I did not see as helpful or indicative of honestly trying to find scum. Caex I just chalked up as town for his claim and had not had much problems with him after that. I mean, everything he wrote I thought seemed to be able to come from a townie mindset. That is until a few days ago, where I feel some of his posts are strange.
Fair enough. I was just observing what appeared to me to be a pattern of you being on the periphery while main suspects were being investigated around you.
Okay, Unvote. Tracker with a very townie (and provable) passive gets a pass on lynching today.
I don't see what's particularly townie about granting a double vote. The role is extremely elegant, with tracking a scummy player leading to giving that player a powerful weapon (although that weapon will almost certainly be ineffective before endgame), while I could also see it on the scum side as a tradeoff - waste your ability to hunt for a town PR in order to grant a scumbuddy a possibly decisive double vote.
Is zindabad still playing catch-up? I thought we were passed all that when he was commenting on current events. I guess he only jumps in when current events relate to him? Scum tactics looking more likely than earlier...
See response to Wessel, with the addendum that I just posted content two days ago when the pressure was totally off. I dropped my re-read to defend myself. Now that I successfully defended myself, I returned to it. Can you explain to me what the problem is with that?
Apparently we agree that Zionite is scum. This is a strange question.
No, it isn't. I'm looking for some detail, somewhere, that you can point to in my post and say "there, I agree with that." Basically it was a reading check that you failed.
Well, since Xyre decided to let it out of the bag, yes, one of WoLG / Iso is Smeagol and the other is Gollum. I suspect one is Mafia and the other is Town.
That's as much as I can deduce.
It's a possibility, but one that I do not think is occurring here. I object to it on flavor and design grounds.
1. Why would Gollum (presumably the "scum" of the duo) be part of a Mafia? His 2nd-grade report card included "doesn't play well with others."
2. Stapling a member of the mafia to a townie, necessitating the townie's death, is poor design. Townies shouldn't be punished for correctly identifying scum. If you think that WoLG, as the active member of the pair, is actually the scum, and Iso the townie, the problem still applies - Town Iso struggles manfully to identify that his mason-buddy is scum, successfully presses a case, and then...gets killed for his trouble?
Hey Zionite, I'd like to hear your response to zindabad's point about Cyberspace at the end of his last post.
Interestingly enough, I already did.
Why the use of the phrase "interestingly enough?" "Interesting" is such a classic meaningless scum phrase. Describe what is "interesting" about Xyre missing your response, or what is "interesting" about having responded.
***
My vote was reset but I'm reapplying it now. Nothing has changed - Voxx's behavior is bad, his predecessor's was bad, his claim is the weakest of all of them, and he must be today's lynch. Vote: Voxxicus.
I don't. I'm more sure of his towniness than of anyone else's who's claimed so far.
(In regards to Cyouni) - Okay.
Quote from Zindabad »
I don't see what's particularly townie about granting a double vote. The role is extremely elegant, with tracking a scummy player leading to giving that player a powerful weapon (although that weapon will almost certainly be ineffective before endgame), while I could also see it on the scum side as a tradeoff - waste your ability to hunt for a town PR in order to grant a scumbuddy a possibly decisive double vote.
And here you make it clear that it's not his role that you consider him town for. So where does the read come from? What has he done this game that makes you consider him as such?
Quote from Zindabad »
Inaccuracy. I just posted on 5/1, a post to which you responded. Remind me again how that constitutes disappearing?
But by all means, don't let the facts get in the way of a good mischaracterization. FoS: DYH.
Quote from Zindabad »
My vote was reset but I'm reapplying it now. Nothing has changed - Voxx's behavior is bad, his predecessor's was bad, his claim is the weakest of all of them, and he must be today's lynch. Vote: Voxxicus.
#1 - Reconcile the FoS on DYH and the vote on myself, given his (and my) actions towards the other.
#2 - Explain why my behavior is 'bad' rather than dropping the easy vote on the vanilla claim, absolving yourself of any accountability.
#3 - You believe Cyouni to be town, for reasons not related to his role - do you believe Xyre and Cyouni to both be town?
Zinda's points against Voxx: 1.) He's replacing a super scummy player 2.) He read the game well enough to realize that Zinda's vote on me was random.
I'd really like to see specifics on where he is taking issue with Voxx's play.
Yes, the vanilla is the "safe" lynch, but I'm not willing to lynch someone I think is townie just because it's the safest thing to do.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Post-posting ninja edit: That should be "He DIDN'T read the game well enough..."
Also: The only "townie" thing that Cyouni has done all game is keep his vote on Xyre. His questions lead nowhere and half the time he seems like he's trying to look relevant than actually scum hunting. I understand that people in power roles have to play scummy in order to avoid being nightkilled before a claim, but now that the cat is out of the bag I'd assume that there would be more attempts to determine other players alignment.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Question for the town: If you remove Caex's claim from the equation, how would you describe his behavior?
Still not good, I agree with you. But I feel like there's no reason available why we wouldn't just test Caex, Cy, and me out tonight. If Caex comes back alive tomorrow, there's no reason to believe he's not scum, and then we lynch him hard.
And if Caex is town, then the mafia pretty much are forced to kill him and roleblock me (since I'd watch Caex to see who targeted him), so Cyouni's in the clear. (This works even if I'm scum, because I couldn't pretend to be roleblocked and have a real roleblock result on a townie pop up.
Okay, but my reasoning here is 1) the impending deadline, 2) Top on the scoreboard is either you or Caex for lynch, and 3) You're probably town. So from that perspective, we should still be voting Caex. The support is there, but the votes are not.
Hey Zionite, I'd like to hear your response to zindabad's point about Cyberspace at the end of his last post.
Interestingly enough, I already did.
But what's your response to his particular point there - that those two posts are akin in tone and, seemingly, intention?
His conclusion is trying to prove that my lurking is scum motivated because of meta. But there's a fallacy in the comparison because they aren't alike: In cyberspace I'm dodging even defending myself and refusing to attack my supposed suspect, in Hobbit I realize my ad nausaem isn't furthering my cause and the other cases don't motivate me to change my mind. Added to my original point that it's not really lurking RE: Post Counts, it's an invalid argument.
Please don't even act like I'm lurking the same here as I was in cyberspace, because it's not even comparable.
Cyberspace - Lynched Day 3, 126 posts over 2-3 months.
Hobbit - Still Day 1, 81 posts over 1 month.
So, no response to what I said? Explain to me how those posts are different.
Like it or not, that is a response. If you want to explain how it isn't, feel free.
Why the use of the phrase "interestingly enough?" "Interesting" is such a classic meaningless scum phrase. Describe what is "interesting" about Xyre missing your response, or what is "interesting" about having responded.
I didn't go into detail because I was phone posting (which really should have a little "phone" icon added when it happens). I thought him missing the response was interesting because I typically double-check to make sure what I'm asking of others is accurate. "Interesting" language is only scummy when it's used to fence-sit, and I clearly haven't been fence-sitting on Xyre.
But using that as an argument for me being scum is even more interesting, given the massive amount of content you've read from me and called scummy yet haven't moved forward on any of it. Stardust supports lynching me, Caex would probably go along with it too, so it's not that you don't have a soapbox to stand on. And I hope you don't misinterpret my "interesting" usage here.
As far as resolving our issues agreeing on a lynch, I'm not okay lynching Xyre. I could go along with a Wessel, Cyouni, or zindabad lynch. I would obviously recommend a Caex lynch for optimal play, but any lynch is better than none. What I do not want is a repeat of our last deadline, because we will not get such generosity from our Host next time around.
@zindabad: Four posts in the span of what, five hours, to defend yourself - posting binge. At the point I made that comment, you had one post in the four days since that - disappearing. It's not really hard. Looks extremely shady that your activity bump coincides with you being under pressure.
His conclusion is trying to prove that my lurking is scum motivated because of meta. But there's a fallacy in the comparison because they aren't alike: In cyberspace I'm dodging even defending myself and refusing to attack my supposed suspect...
Hmm... that does sound familiar though... where have I seen this before? Ah, yes, this game! I responded to your case on me over a week ago, which you haven't even touched, and now you're completely ignoring every attempt I make at pointing out your scum moves.
No time to lose, top2 lynching plz. Don't say the name of anyone who haven't claimed.
DRey: Caex, Xyre.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
His conclusion is trying to prove that my lurking is scum motivated because of meta. But there's a fallacy in the comparison because they aren't alike: In cyberspace I'm dodging even defending myself and refusing to attack my supposed suspect...
Hmm... that does sound familiar though... where have I seen this before? Ah, yes, this game! I responded to your case on me over a week ago, which you haven't even touched, and now you're completely ignoring every attempt I make at pointing out your scum moves.
Can we please lynch Zionite?
You've turned down pushing me last deadline for the same reason I'm not campaigning for your lynch. I don't think I can get the support for it without Caex flipped first. It's that simple. That doesn't mean I don't think you're scum.
And since I'm clearly not going to be lynched today, who are my supposed scum buddies and why? I'm not going to let you coast to deadline again only attacking me and then throwing your vote on whoever you feel like it when we need solidarity.
And since I'm clearly not going to be lynched today, who are my supposed scum buddies and why? I'm not going to let you coast to deadline again only attacking me and then throwing your vote on whoever you feel like it when we need solidarity.
**** you. I didn't coast to deadline, you did. I didn't vote for basically any wagon that came up near the end, you did. I was the one to start a new case on a scummy player and turn the Xyre lynch around. I've consistently been the one to fight back against the idea of lynching a claimed PR because it will be resolved for us tomorrow.
You want scum buddies? Fine. My best guess at the moment is zindabad and one of Xyre or Caex. I would have said Caex except for your complete disregard for the truth when dealing with his case. Either way he rolls, that makes you scum.
Well, since Xyre decided to let it out of the bag, yes, one of WoLG / Iso is Smeagol and the other is Gollum. I suspect one is Mafia and the other is Town.
That's as much as I can deduce.
I'm pretty sure that doesn't work logistically unless WoLG stops posting and Iso starts at some point.
I came up with a list, but I wanted suggestions from people as per the whole "investigate one of these three at random" plan. As I said before if the town wants to direct me in a specific direction I'll happily do that instead of choosing my own targets.
If I had to guess, I'd say you're skimming the game because, y'know. You're scum and don't need to figure out what's going on.
And if you somehow are just playing terribly as town and tunneling, then pull your head out of ass and do something productive.
I think Caex is more likely town than scum. Mostly because claiming unprotectable doesn't mesh with a scum mindset for me. He'd want to draw the doc rather than not, if he were scum. I also think lynching or vigging him day/night one is beyond stupid, and can't fathom why people want to.
And what do you suggest I do? Cut my losses and flip a coin on Caex/Cyouni? I'd rather apply pressure on players whom I think are scum and worth pursuing while we still have time today. I think such a strategy is more productive.
Why flip a coin when you have other measures to work with?
I don't see what's particularly townie about granting a double vote. The role is extremely elegant, with tracking a scummy player leading to giving that player a powerful weapon (although that weapon will almost certainly be ineffective before endgame), while I could also see it on the scum side as a tradeoff - waste your ability to hunt for a town PR in order to grant a scumbuddy a possibly decisive double vote.
As a note, it's a 'may' clause. So I don't have to alert them to the fact that I targeted them.
I understand that people in power roles have to play scummy in order to avoid being nightkilled before a claim, but now that the cat is out of the bag I'd assume that there would be more attempts to determine other players alignment.
First, who's to say there haven't been any?
Second, I may be keeping some of them back so that I'm not revealing my possible track targets.
We've already had a ton of claims today and I brought it up during Xyre's wagon to try and avoid too much prodding because it was close to a deadline. I'm confident enough now that the scum won't shoot at me because of all the claimed power roles though, and if they do shoot me tonight, that gives you all the chance to question them and get their results tomorrow. Stardust was right on the nose with my character names.
I'm Fili and Kili, townie masons with Iso. (Iso said so during his opening post.)
Unfortunately he is not ever allowed to post in the thread, this was confirmed with AI. {Me and Iso decided that we probably should have been Smeagol though, because he's just a voice in my head this game.}
_______________________________________________________
First, who's to say there haven't been any?
Second, I may be keeping some of them back so that I'm not revealing my possible track targets.
I didn't say that there hasn't been "any." I said I'd suspect that there should have been more. Which there should have been. You should be scumhunting, not trying to hide behind your claim. If you are town and get killed tonight, what good is it that you've held back your reads? Zero good can come from that. Also, most of the town has been attempting to direct you, so you scum hunting and posting your reads on players doesn't give away your possible targets, it makes it so that you're actually contributing to finding and killing the scum that want you dead. Posts like these are what make me believe you're scum.
_______________________________________________________ Player Reads, WoLG edition:
If it wasn't for their claims, I'd be happy lynching Xyre, Cyouni, DRey, or Caex all for their super scummy behavior throughout the game.
I'm not sure if I've said this yet, but with multiple investigative roles as town, DRey as the mafia toughguy makes sense to me. An extra mafia kill is good balance for so much investigation.
Wessel has said some things that gave me pause, but mostly I'm reading him as town. Recently been paying a lot more attention to his interactions with other players so that I don't have to backtrack too much when someone finally flips.
Zionite and Zinda are null reads so far, hearty mix of town/scum tells. Wouldn't mind running them up, but there's not enough time left today.
Seppel, DYH, Voxx, and Stardust are all giving me town reads and I'm not down for running any of them up to try a lynch.
Player reads, Iso edition:
"Town: WoLG (I know his role PM :D) Seppel (Reads paralleled mine when I "joined" the game, and this isn't his scum game; plus his behavior appears pro-town overall. And everyone who reads this list should put their favorite color in the title of their next post.) DRey (Vig; yes, I'm willing to accept that at face value.) Zionite (Not his scum game at all.)
Null: Cyouni (Behavior says scum, claim gives me pause; plus, I want that additional vote. Also, D_V's behavior wasn't exactly inspiring. But we have the di[tri?]chotomy between Cyouni, Caex, and Xyre, and it just looks icky all around. I'm sure the Night actions will say a lot.) Voxx (Che's behavior was meh but what I'd expect [knowing who he is and all], but Voxx's is significantly better and I like his questions to Xyre. Plus I would expect him to falseclaim a power role and not VT in this game if he did falseclaim.) zindabad (I don't remember much of anything he's posted because I've been glazing over his posts, but based on the way he's attacking Zionite, I'd be more inclined to believe him to be town over scum if it came down to it.) DYH (I haven't read many of DYH's posts so I don't have a read on him. PoE says he's probably town over scum, though.) Caex (Push against Xyre in the beginning reads like Caex knows Xyre's alignment, and coupled with my scum read on Xyre...I want to believe the Cop claim but meh di[tri?]chotomy. :-/)
Scum: Wessel (I haven't seen a single post that makes me believe Wessel is town in this game. Plus it looks like he's busing Xyre at this point.) Stardust (See: Wessel, except minus the Xyre busing perhaps because I don't remember anything he's posted recently.) Xyre (He digs his hole deeper and deeper with every post, plus I outlined my case on him from early in the game.)"
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
And since I'm clearly not going to be lynched today, who are my supposed scum buddies and why? I'm not going to let you coast to deadline again only attacking me and then throwing your vote on whoever you feel like it when we need solidarity.
**** you. I didn't coast to deadline, you did. I didn't vote for basically any wagon that came up near the end, you did. I was the one to start a new case on a scummy player and turn the Xyre lynch around. I've consistently been the one to fight back against the idea of lynching a claimed PR because it will be resolved for us tomorrow.
You want scum buddies? Fine. My best guess at the moment is zindabad and one of Xyre or Caex. I would have said Caex except for your complete disregard for the truth when dealing with his case. Either way he rolls, that makes you scum.
And yet you knew the risk of ending the day with a no lynch and refused to compromise for the town. You knew that no lynching is better for the scum and did nothing to prevent it.
Apparently you think Caex is scum, but why aren't you voting for him? How do you resolve the fact that despite having multiple opportunities to leave my "scum buddy" alone, I have refused?
Read my response to Stardust up a few posts - that was in response to DYH, not to Caex - I quoted Caex to show an inconsistency with DYH's mindset. Just was poorly formatted if people don't use context, I guess.
Barring any dramatic revelations, I don't think I'll be voting anyone who's currently claimed - either because I think they're town (Voxx, DRey) or because I think leaving them alive is more productive at the moment (Caex, Cyouni).
Since that contrasts with DRey's authoritative "we're only lynching someone who's claimed" notion, I don't know what more to do, as all my current suspects are unclaimed and no that's taboo.
I'll say it again - if you don't trust me, lynch me. You'll save me the trouble of having to make another post of comments, too, because the previous one will suffice.
I think Caex is more likely town than scum. Mostly because claiming unprotectable doesn't mesh with a scum mindset for me. He'd want to draw the doc rather than not, if he were scum. I also think lynching or vigging him day/night one is beyond stupid, and can't fathom why people want to.
I want him to check one of DYH or Seppel, preferrably DYH at this point given his recent behavior.
I want to lynch Xyre.
I'm not sure enough that DYH is scum vs. tunneling town to go that route, and Xyre is my strongest scum read in a vacuum,
Xyre (3): Cyouni, Voxxicus, Wessel
Caex Kothar (2): DRey, Zionite
Cyouni (1): Seppel
DRey (1): Caex Kothar
Voxxicus (1): DYH
Wessel (1): Xyre
Not Voting (3): Stardust, WellOfLostGnomes, zindabad
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Day One will end no later than 11:59PM, Tuesday, May 7th.
Claiming unblockable doesn't mesh with a town mindset either, by the same logic.
You can't let Caex go on this reason alone.
I just don't see scum claiming unprotectable and unblockable. It means he doesn't have any 'outs' - he can't claim to be roleblocked, he can't draw the protection - it does nothing other than extend his life a day or two at most if he's scum fakeclaiming.
Lynching him is stupid for that reason alone - if he's town, we get a guaranteed check, or scum shoot him.
If he's scum, and still alive in a day or two, we lynch/vig him, and yay dead scum.
The only reason to lynch him now is if there's a counterclaim - doing otherwise completely discards the benefit we generate from leaving him alive in Town!Caex worlds.
It's pointless to tell you now.
Xyre has managed to extract a claim from me, Cy, Caex and Voxx. Even though he did participate in all those wagons and now Wessel's in the end he didn't want to lynch any of them. Most importantly Xyre is now voting Wessel.
How can someone who is a real watcher doesn't want to solve this dichotomy? Why on earth Xyre is not wanting to see Cy or Caex blood? Because if I was a watcher and two other guys claimed similar investigative roles I would certainly be suspicious as hell, and not pushing for the sixth claim in a row.
Xyre's behavior makes no sense from a watcher standpoint, look at Cy for example, after Xyre claimed watcher he put his vote on him and never let go, this is what I would do in his position, not the insane fishing Xyre's doing. In fact even if Xyre is lynched toDay he will probably manage to get scum MVP, because getting like 5 claims D1 and not being instantly lynched is like a new world record.
ToDay I'm voting for either Caex or Xyre and you all should be doing that too.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Let me point you back to the part where he claimed unblockable.
Why would he say this as town, knowing that scenario would never happen? Why would he plan for that? This is a scum mindset; if he were telling the truth, he would know a block on him would be unsuccessful and better for the team. He knew exactly what he was doing falseclaiming this.
Ah yes, so it was. Carry on.
So this is really hard. I was hoping that catch on Voxx would pan out so I wouldn't have to think about this. But I'm pretty sure he's town. Caex is probably my biggest scum read in a vacuum, but I really don't want to lynch him today since if he is town the mafia are going to be pretty stuck. Xyre's looking worse all the time, but it's hard to believe that both he and Caex would be scum. Unless he was just bussing really hard. That might actually make sense with how illogical he was being at times - just go totally over the top for maximum distance. Cyouni's the most easily proved, so I'm good with letting him off the hook today.
Of the outsiders, zindabad and Zionite are the two that I would feel more comfortable lynching today. Many people have complained about the number of claims we've had already, but I don't think we have a choice but to look elsewhere. The mafia's actions tonight (or, failing that, the lynch of Caex tomorrow) will sort everything out. I think another claim is better than forcing the dichotomy before its time when it will be solved for us tonight.
Will you tell me once he responds?
And let me point you to the question he was actually asked!
This is such a bad misrep. ++town points for Caex and
Vote Zionite.
In a perfect world, sure. One where, oh I don't know, maybe the Cop could be roleblocked? C'mon, DRey.
We agree fundamentally here, and this is exactly why, Voxx, you do not direct the claimed cop. Even if he's asking for "help" - which he shouldn't be doing.
Yes, in all likelihood, there is at least one scum in that pile. But No. No, no, no, no, no - we do not need to discover that "as soon as possible" - you wait until tomorrow to try and A) extract as much information as possible and B) hope to catch one in a lie ensuring you lynch the right damn person. This is not hard.
I have my guess on which one(s), sure, but I'd rather go the safer route listed above.
So here it is - you finally come out and say it. No, the role is not "broken" - it's elegant. It guarantees the cop gets results and that he gets dead when he claims. I like it.
Furthermore, of the group Caex claimed first. So, unless you think he was ready to admit defeat, go down in flames that early in the game, he doesn't false-claim cop there. Xyre's claim is sketchy, and Cyouni's is flat-out convenient. If they'd claimed in reverse order, with Caex last, I'd be in agreement with you on him being the likely scum. As it is, I think it's Cyouni, but I'm not willing to bet a mislynch on it.
Wrong - as I mentioned above. Perhaps I should ask if you're reading the game since I already covered "leading the cop being scummy" previously and then you did it again. You failed to give that reasoning the first time. That's probably because Caex' post about asking for help came afterward. So, explain that. And also, why you were directing the vig, then.
Here's an idea: stop with the appeals to ego and ad homs. Or don't - it just further cements my scum read on you. You pick.
Yep; he went on a posting binge when he got in trouble and has since disappeared.
Absolutely correct.
Feeling good about Stardust.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I already said this: I think one of Caex and Cyouni is scum. However, we have no damn way of figuring out which of the three of us is lying today. Lynching any of us passes up the chance to compare notes tomorrow to gain more information.
And if memory serves, I had nothing to do with getting Voxxicus to claim.
And what do you suggest I do? Cut my losses and flip a coin on Caex/Cyouni? I'd rather apply pressure on players whom I think are scum and worth pursuing while we still have time today. I think such a strategy is more productive.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
If we were scumbuddies and I wanted to bus him, I would have just counterclaimed him.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I'll clarify: I was talking about this post.
By "groundwork for a bus", I mean the post reads like preparation for later saying "I once thought Wessel was town, but on the basis of this post (which you can see I suspected here) and others I've changed my mind".
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Mafia rules state that anyone not on the player list is not allowed to post in an ongoing game thread. Cyouni's claimed role gives an extra vote to a player so I assume that I'll have two separate votes tomorrow.
I'm feeling continuously better about Voxx with every post he makes. DYH is solidly in my town category, along with Seppel and Stardust.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Are you my precious?
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
No, this is Patrick.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
That's as much as I can deduce.
I'm reading this post as you saying you knew about this innately. Am I right in thinking so?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
1)I don't really remember how involved you were in Voxx, but you just agreed you were involved with all other claims, and you know what? that's quite enough to me. This is not townXyre, townXyre barks and bite, not bark and retreat.
2)You should apply pressure, extract claims and then lynch. Applying pressure, extract claims and then backtracking is not indicative of town, but of scum fishing for claims. And you have done that tons of time toDay.
3)I'm usually not a fan of "slips" but I think this one you just made quite definitive. I have no more doubts.
unvote, vote Xyre
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Interestingly enough, I already did.
I highly doubt there's a mafia member who isn't on the player list.
Why not? Caex was halfway dead. I counter-claim him, I draw the doc protection, AND people wouldn't smell a bus - they'd smell a bad scum gambit by Caex. Only risk is if there really is a cop. Which is a pretty small risk, all told.
It's certainly more effective a plan than what you seem to think I've done, which is hold back on a claim of an information role, try to get the cop lynched based on logic nobody agrees (and then persist in believing it's a good plan in the face of such disagreement), come up with a plan that basically condemns Caex if he comes back alive tomorrow, then claim information role and not treat it as a counter-claim...
That's my tactical plan? Do I have all that right?
1) I retreat when it's not worth biting. Remember Asian in Ataghan? Maybe that was before you replaced in. I suspected him, drove him to a claim, then backed off when I wasn't certain and saw the possibilities in his claim. (He was a bodyguard who could unlock bulletproofing, effectively becoming a doc.)
2) Again, not true. I already mentioned how many people I voiced suspicion of and then backed away from in Ataghan already. But to refresh your memory: Guardman, Asian, Tanarin, Cythare, etc.
Aggressive play is defined not by its aggression but by its prudence. You know what they call the aggressive townie who lynches three of his buddies? The LVP.
3) Oh, please, DRey. That's not a slip - I did that on purpose. I'm acknowledging suspicions of me, not confessing. Your opinion of me must really be slight, if you think I'm the type to say something like that - to say anything at all, really - on accident.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Still not good, I agree with you. But I feel like there's no reason available why we wouldn't just test Caex, Cy, and me out tonight. If Caex comes back alive tomorrow, there's no reason to believe he's not scum, and then we lynch him hard.
And if Caex is town, then the mafia pretty much are forced to kill him and roleblock me (since I'd watch Caex to see who targeted him), so Cyouni's in the clear. (This works even if I'm scum, because I couldn't pretend to be roleblocked and have a real roleblock result on a townie pop up.)
The only troublesome case is if Cyouni's the scum among us three, but his ability's pretty testable, since he also gives away a double vote. We just micromanage him and keep testing him to make sure he's indeed tracking his target. (Tell him to target someone we choose, then have him tell us what that player did last night, then have that player confirm or deny without saying what ability he used if any, for example.)
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Oh, sorry. That was my mistake - trusting scrolling over CTRL-F.
But what's your response to his particular point there - that those two posts are akin in tone and, seemingly, intention?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Figured it out around Sunday/Monday:
I think it's more likely Caex is scum and Cyouni is town, just based on the fact that Cyouni's role seems kind of weird for a scum, but I'm not at all confident in that verdict enough to think lynching one of them before getting our results is a good idea.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Cyouni had nothing to do with my willingness or lack thereof to lynch Caex today. I wanted to lynch him before I thought of the "one of the random three" investigation plan. Cyouni makes it more likely Caex is scum, but we'll know that more definitively tomorrow.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Because
a) Caex will investigate someone we suspect, and
b) the mafia can't know whom he'll investigate to try to shoot that player to incriminate Caex if he's town.
So if Caex is town and we pick three players among whom there are enough real scum to make the mafia afraid of the results he might get, they're better off shooting him.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
So, no response to what I said? Explain to me how those posts are different.
I strongly doubt they're all town, and I don't want to mass-claim on D1 (or even hear another claim today.)
I don't. I'm more sure of his towniness than of anyone else's who's claimed so far.
What better time?
So I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't? If I do nothing and apply all my time to catching up, I get blamed for not paying attention to current events. If I address more recent material, I get handwaved for not being caught up?
It just looks like a thoughtless smear, is all. You bring up ZDS not because you really suspect Xyre but because you want to compare him unflatteringly to a previous interrogator who was scum. You go with DRey as the easy choice for your #1 scum because you don't want to really go toe-to-toe with Xyre.
Fair enough. I was just observing what appeared to me to be a pattern of you being on the periphery while main suspects were being investigated around you.
I don't see what's particularly townie about granting a double vote. The role is extremely elegant, with tracking a scummy player leading to giving that player a powerful weapon (although that weapon will almost certainly be ineffective before endgame), while I could also see it on the scum side as a tradeoff - waste your ability to hunt for a town PR in order to grant a scumbuddy a possibly decisive double vote.
See response to Wessel, with the addendum that I just posted content two days ago when the pressure was totally off. I dropped my re-read to defend myself. Now that I successfully defended myself, I returned to it. Can you explain to me what the problem is with that?
No, it isn't. I'm looking for some detail, somewhere, that you can point to in my post and say "there, I agree with that." Basically it was a reading check that you failed.
This is the only mention of Cyouni he made in the post to which you refer (746):
"I don't... really want to lynch Cyouni. Him being able to grant an extra vote with his track seems super provable and townsided."
Can you now please identify what exactly the "very good point about Cyouni" in that sentence is?
Inaccuracy. I just posted on 5/1, a post to which you responded. Remind me again how that constitutes disappearing?
But by all means, don't let the facts get in the way of a good mischaracterization. FoS: DYH.
It's a possibility, but one that I do not think is occurring here. I object to it on flavor and design grounds.
1. Why would Gollum (presumably the "scum" of the duo) be part of a Mafia? His 2nd-grade report card included "doesn't play well with others."
2. Stapling a member of the mafia to a townie, necessitating the townie's death, is poor design. Townies shouldn't be punished for correctly identifying scum. If you think that WoLG, as the active member of the pair, is actually the scum, and Iso the townie, the problem still applies - Town Iso struggles manfully to identify that his mason-buddy is scum, successfully presses a case, and then...gets killed for his trouble?
I don't see it.
Why the use of the phrase "interestingly enough?" "Interesting" is such a classic meaningless scum phrase. Describe what is "interesting" about Xyre missing your response, or what is "interesting" about having responded.
***
My vote was reset but I'm reapplying it now. Nothing has changed - Voxx's behavior is bad, his predecessor's was bad, his claim is the weakest of all of them, and he must be today's lynch. Vote: Voxxicus.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
(In regards to Cyouni) - Okay.
And here you make it clear that it's not his role that you consider him town for. So where does the read come from? What has he done this game that makes you consider him as such?
#1 - Reconcile the FoS on DYH and the vote on myself, given his (and my) actions towards the other.
#2 - Explain why my behavior is 'bad' rather than dropping the easy vote on the vanilla claim, absolving yourself of any accountability.
#3 - You believe Cyouni to be town, for reasons not related to his role - do you believe Xyre and Cyouni to both be town?
I'd really like to see specifics on where he is taking issue with Voxx's play.
Yes, the vanilla is the "safe" lynch, but I'm not willing to lynch someone I think is townie just because it's the safest thing to do.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Also: The only "townie" thing that Cyouni has done all game is keep his vote on Xyre. His questions lead nowhere and half the time he seems like he's trying to look relevant than actually scum hunting. I understand that people in power roles have to play scummy in order to avoid being nightkilled before a claim, but now that the cat is out of the bag I'd assume that there would be more attempts to determine other players alignment.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Okay, but my reasoning here is 1) the impending deadline, 2) Top on the scoreboard is either you or Caex for lynch, and 3) You're probably town. So from that perspective, we should still be voting Caex. The support is there, but the votes are not.
His conclusion is trying to prove that my lurking is scum motivated because of meta. But there's a fallacy in the comparison because they aren't alike: In cyberspace I'm dodging even defending myself and refusing to attack my supposed suspect, in Hobbit I realize my ad nausaem isn't furthering my cause and the other cases don't motivate me to change my mind. Added to my original point that it's not really lurking RE: Post Counts, it's an invalid argument.
Like it or not, that is a response. If you want to explain how it isn't, feel free.
I didn't go into detail because I was phone posting (which really should have a little "phone" icon added when it happens). I thought him missing the response was interesting because I typically double-check to make sure what I'm asking of others is accurate. "Interesting" language is only scummy when it's used to fence-sit, and I clearly haven't been fence-sitting on Xyre.
But using that as an argument for me being scum is even more interesting, given the massive amount of content you've read from me and called scummy yet haven't moved forward on any of it. Stardust supports lynching me, Caex would probably go along with it too, so it's not that you don't have a soapbox to stand on. And I hope you don't misinterpret my "interesting" usage here.
As far as resolving our issues agreeing on a lynch, I'm not okay lynching Xyre. I could go along with a Wessel, Cyouni, or zindabad lynch. I would obviously recommend a Caex lynch for optimal play, but any lynch is better than none. What I do not want is a repeat of our last deadline, because we will not get such generosity from our Host next time around.
Like, not even an "Iso is confirmed town" or anything.
@Zionite: Congrats.
I was about to say "that's flavorgaming" but WoLG's role involves flavorgaming, so yeah.
I'll wait for WoLG to clarify what he knows.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Hmm... that does sound familiar though... where have I seen this before? Ah, yes, this game! I responded to your case on me over a week ago, which you haven't even touched, and now you're completely ignoring every attempt I make at pointing out your scum moves.
Can we please lynch Zionite?
DRey: Caex, Xyre.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
You've turned down pushing me last deadline for the same reason I'm not campaigning for your lynch. I don't think I can get the support for it without Caex flipped first. It's that simple. That doesn't mean I don't think you're scum.
**** you. I didn't coast to deadline, you did. I didn't vote for basically any wagon that came up near the end, you did. I was the one to start a new case on a scummy player and turn the Xyre lynch around. I've consistently been the one to fight back against the idea of lynching a claimed PR because it will be resolved for us tomorrow.
You want scum buddies? Fine. My best guess at the moment is zindabad and one of Xyre or Caex. I would have said Caex except for your complete disregard for the truth when dealing with his case. Either way he rolls, that makes you scum.
Warning for Flaming
That's a stretch.
How do these two posts align in any way?
What changed in those three posts?
Why flip a coin when you have other measures to work with?
As a note, it's a 'may' clause. So I don't have to alert them to the fact that I targeted them.
First, who's to say there haven't been any?
Second, I may be keeping some of them back so that I'm not revealing my possible track targets.
Apparently he missed out on these two posts by me:
We've already had a ton of claims today and I brought it up during Xyre's wagon to try and avoid too much prodding because it was close to a deadline. I'm confident enough now that the scum won't shoot at me because of all the claimed power roles though, and if they do shoot me tonight, that gives you all the chance to question them and get their results tomorrow. Stardust was right on the nose with my character names.
I'm Fili and Kili, townie masons with Iso. (Iso said so during his opening post.)
Unfortunately he is not ever allowed to post in the thread, this was confirmed with AI. {Me and Iso decided that we probably should have been Smeagol though, because he's just a voice in my head this game.}
_______________________________________________________
I didn't say that there hasn't been "any." I said I'd suspect that there should have been more. Which there should have been. You should be scumhunting, not trying to hide behind your claim. If you are town and get killed tonight, what good is it that you've held back your reads? Zero good can come from that. Also, most of the town has been attempting to direct you, so you scum hunting and posting your reads on players doesn't give away your possible targets, it makes it so that you're actually contributing to finding and killing the scum that want you dead. Posts like these are what make me believe you're scum.
_______________________________________________________
Player Reads, WoLG edition:
If it wasn't for their claims, I'd be happy lynching Xyre, Cyouni, DRey, or Caex all for their super scummy behavior throughout the game.
I'm not sure if I've said this yet, but with multiple investigative roles as town, DRey as the mafia toughguy makes sense to me. An extra mafia kill is good balance for so much investigation.
Wessel has said some things that gave me pause, but mostly I'm reading him as town. Recently been paying a lot more attention to his interactions with other players so that I don't have to backtrack too much when someone finally flips.
Zionite and Zinda are null reads so far, hearty mix of town/scum tells. Wouldn't mind running them up, but there's not enough time left today.
Seppel, DYH, Voxx, and Stardust are all giving me town reads and I'm not down for running any of them up to try a lynch.
Player reads, Iso edition:
"Town:
WoLG (I know his role PM :D)
Seppel (Reads paralleled mine when I "joined" the game, and this isn't his scum game; plus his behavior appears pro-town overall. And everyone who reads this list should put their favorite color in the title of their next post.)
DRey (Vig; yes, I'm willing to accept that at face value.)
Zionite (Not his scum game at all.)
Null:
Cyouni (Behavior says scum, claim gives me pause; plus, I want that additional vote. Also, D_V's behavior wasn't exactly inspiring. But we have the di[tri?]chotomy between Cyouni, Caex, and Xyre, and it just looks icky all around. I'm sure the Night actions will say a lot.)
Voxx (Che's behavior was meh but what I'd expect [knowing who he is and all], but Voxx's is significantly better and I like his questions to Xyre. Plus I would expect him to falseclaim a power role and not VT in this game if he did falseclaim.)
zindabad (I don't remember much of anything he's posted because I've been glazing over his posts, but based on the way he's attacking Zionite, I'd be more inclined to believe him to be town over scum if it came down to it.)
DYH (I haven't read many of DYH's posts so I don't have a read on him. PoE says he's probably town over scum, though.)
Caex (Push against Xyre in the beginning reads like Caex knows Xyre's alignment, and coupled with my scum read on Xyre...I want to believe the Cop claim but meh di[tri?]chotomy. :-/)
Scum:
Wessel (I haven't seen a single post that makes me believe Wessel is town in this game. Plus it looks like he's busing Xyre at this point.)
Stardust (See: Wessel, except minus the Xyre busing perhaps because I don't remember anything he's posted recently.)
Xyre (He digs his hole deeper and deeper with every post, plus I outlined my case on him from early in the game.)"
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
And yet you knew the risk of ending the day with a no lynch and refused to compromise for the town. You knew that no lynching is better for the scum and did nothing to prevent it.
Apparently you think Caex is scum, but why aren't you voting for him? How do you resolve the fact that despite having multiple opportunities to leave my "scum buddy" alone, I have refused?
This reads like a scum implosion post to me.
As for who to lynch: Cyouni or Xyre. Preferably Cyouni because of how Xyre AtE me out when he was fakelynched.
I'm likely getting drunk tonight so don't put anyone to L-1!
Odd.
Your preciousssss.
Read my response to Stardust up a few posts - that was in response to DYH, not to Caex - I quoted Caex to show an inconsistency with DYH's mindset. Just was poorly formatted if people don't use context, I guess.
success.jpg
Since that contrasts with DRey's authoritative "we're only lynching someone who's claimed" notion, I don't know what more to do, as all my current suspects are unclaimed and no that's taboo.
I'll say it again - if you don't trust me, lynch me. You'll save me the trouble of having to make another post of comments, too, because the previous one will suffice.
I was being ironic. You thought this was a worthwhile question?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia