Given that he has claimed to unblockable, Caex is too much of a potential detriment to the mafia. We won't be able to trust any of his results until he flips, but at that point, it could be invaluable. For that reason, if he is town, the mafia would have to be daft not to take him out sooner rather than later. The longer they wait, the worse it becomes when he does flip town. If he is scum, he's going down one way or the other.
Quote from caex »
To address your "let's vig Caex" post: I wonder if we shouldn't be calling out vig targets. If the scum know I'm going to be vigged, they can NK someone more townie. I think the vig should shoot someone else and force the scum to spend their kill on me. Because they pretty much have to unless they want me to get an investigation off. If I'm somehow alive tomorrow, I'll have a result. You can then lynch me to confirm my result and go from there.
This is a good point. If he is town, and we call the vig, the scum basically get a double kill tonight. If he is scum, with what he's claimed, he can't survive until the end. No reason to blow our load to early.
I find myself liking WoLG's analysis here. I also don't like how Drey flips from "no one counter claim" to "okay, now it's cool." What's changed?
I'm feeling a bit confused now. Caex's last couple of posts have felt more townie than anything prior, at least townie enough that I'm not comfortable lynching an unCC'd PR at this point, and Zionite's answers to my questions gave me the impression that I was fighting with a townie as well, despite apparent contradictions in wording. Maybe those contradictions were just errors in wording... but then why would he defend them so vehemently? Ugh.
Anyway, it's time to turn to DRey... My reread yesterday more or less solidified my read of scum for all three of these guys, so I'm basically okay with lynching either Zionite or DRey today. If I'm wrong on any of these three I think I'll need either a flip or something drastic before I can really reevaluate those reads properly at this point.
So DRey... There are lots of little things, but the big ones for me are 1) his jump on Xyre (which we've now learned was based on absolutely nothing since DRey wasn't even reading Xyre's posts), 2) his "spill the beans" post where he leaves out more than half the players and barns his entire case on Caex (including a slip where he says kpaca's got a point about Caex's sig, not avatar - clearly not his own thought and not even critically considered), and 3) his flip from not wanting the CC (maybe to score town points because he thought the Caex momentum would get him lynched anyway) to wanting the CC (now that the momentum has clearly died down). If Caex is scum, it makes much more sense for scumDRey to go for the claim only after he's made sure his attempt at bussing had truly failed. If Caex is town, scumDRey tried to get the cop lynched, but then decided to spearhead his proving Caex as town instead? Just speculation, but the point is that in either case it's very odd for a townie to have that same change of heart after the momentum shift. It should have been the opposite.
The only thing really muddying this for me is that Caex jumped on the wagon without it feeling like a bus to me. I still think Caex is likely scum, but the lack of content directly linked to his vote on DRey feels to me like either scum joining the wagon on a townie, or a townie joining a wagon with characteristic self-confidence. I need to sort that out since I have 195 and 196 marked as Caex defending DRey without just cause, but that vote now feels like they may not be scum buddies.
Anyway, this still feels right. Unvote Zionite, Vote DRey.
Caex, I'm ready to vote for you anytime now, so a claim would be appreciated. If you claim vanilla, a list of reads with reasons would be helpful too. Thanks.
I don't recall any reason that you are prevented from voting him.
I think I really screwed myself this game. When I saw my role PM I basically thought "Hey, I'm unlynchable!" I took it as an excuse to play faster and looser than I normally would. Which is probably why I'm now forced to claim.
Not "play scummier". Play more aggressively and without a lot of regard for how I'm perceived. And yes, I do think being a cop makes me more resistant to lynching.
A few things:
1. You said earlier that you were interested in voting the biggest wagon.
2. You said your plan was to be roleblocked. Why wouldn't they just kill you instead?
3. If your claim was a contingency plan in the case suspicion fell on you, why the lines of "you'll feel stupid if this keeps up"?
3)He's not being CCed (and I retract my previous post, meaning if you are the real cop, feel free to CC him as we will ensure a scum lynch toDay), so there is the chance he's the real one. Lynching unCC PR is one of the worst things a town can do. I've played in a game where the unCC cop was lynched D1 and we were royally screwed, I still have nightmares about that game.
Caex, I'm ready to vote for you anytime now, so a claim would be appreciated. If you claim vanilla, a list of reads with reasons would be helpful too. Thanks.
I don't recall any reason that you are prevented from voting him.
Well this game is certainly roaring... Anyway, I'm mostly just here to say that I'll be V/LA until next Wednesday. I hope to have lots to catch up on!
Also, after thinking about it for a bit, CropCircles' logic in 272 looks spot on for dealing with Caex. If he's town, the scum need to kill him. If he doesn't die after a day or two, we lynch him. At least then we've got the chance to get some cop targets, and like Caex himself suggested, he'll be more likely to incriminate his scum buddies anyway. Win win!
I guess I shouldn't complain. I just checked and everyone has posted in the last 48 hours. Going 20 hours with only one person posting just seems like a lot. Carry on.
1.) I agree. I do not think we should be lynching the claimed cop D1. The language in your last sentence here reads like scum trying to get a claim or breadcrumb out from another investigative role.
Why my language couldn't be seen as a townie that is confused on how to proceed after his suspect claims cop? Because I'm thinking a lot about the correct course of action and that reflects on what I support, I'm just not sure.
3.) Now you're calling for the reveal of the cop today if he's lying?!?! That's completely different logic from what you JUST STATED. Not to mention the worst scum logic I've heard so far in this game. Even if scum false claim cop, that leaves the real one to get an investigation in during N1 with a smaller chance of getting Night Killed, which leads to a possible 2 scum caught after N1, or at the very least, one scum caught and one town cleared.
Yes, it's different, but things have changed, I thought we could solve that with just the info we had, but in the end I'm not that sure it's actually possible. In the end I'm just too afraid of lynching the cop.
You're waffling so hard right now that it's making my head hurt. You seem to be wanting to cover all of your bases so that when he flips town or scum you can come back and point out how you /had the right plan all along/. I'm very happy where my vote is.
Yes, I may be waffling, but that's because I'm town, I only know about my role and despite everything pointing to Caex be lying scum, I have no way to know that for sure. I'm still thinking about the best plan and probably I will come up with something new again after a while, because the more I think, the more I change opinions, that's the way humans work.
So you're saying that you're not going to defend your statements or give actual response to the points against you because other people aren't giving content?! That to me sounds like you want the people who are lurking to chime in and make points, then you can continue your spree of "Oh yeah, I agree with X, that's totally my reasons for doing this!"
Uhh, no? Why are you misrepping me so badly? I WILL defend my statemens, I WILL give my reasons, but I don't want to give answers to possible lurking scum. I will not barn anyone because my reasons are my own only, and I do have them.
Wait...what? By definition not being pro-town is pro-scum. It's black and white to me. You either help us catch and kill scum, or you're on their team. The scum rely on "bad/misguided/lazy/lurky/stubborn townies" to win the games. Just wait and see? How about you start doing that now.
False dichotomy, Kpaca just provided an example of a play that's not pro-town, and also not pro-scum: he falseclaimed vig. And do you know the correct course of action to guys that falseclaim vig when there's a real vig? It's to vig the liar back without counterclaiming. The thing is, he Kpaca does it all the time, both as town or scum. So that anti-town play is in fact null for him. He should not be vigged for that. My play was not pro-town neither pro-scum, I was just goofing around to gather reactions, in fact thinking better I think my play has been pro-town, because I'm getting everything I wanted and more. The game has been resurrected.
So, outside of power roles, how would anyone who is "good" at mafia ever be caught as scum then? You can't disregard their posts on that logic. Scum slip up, regardless of how good they are because they have an ulterior motive.
Good question! To me the best way to caught strong scum is to catch them saying things they don't believe themselves. Xyre's play on this game is a shinning example of this, he's saying so many lies and things he could not possible advocate that I'm sure he's scum with an ulterior motive.
I disagree. By definition you not reading something means you don't know what it said. You can have an idea by reading other peoples posts, but that gives you a really skewed view of current events. How do you know that what Zion was posting there wouldn't change your read on him? You're pretty cocky about your skills at reading scum/town WITH OUT EVER PROVIDING ANY REASONS OR VAILD LOGIC FOR BEING SO.
You are correct on this one, I'm not completely up to date on Xyre X Zion fight, but that's not quite important imho, I believe Xyre is scum for other reasons, and Caex has just tied himself to him pretty handily, so it's all good.
Here's a TL;DR for you DRey since you don't like reading walls of text
By one of your own screwed up logic patterns, you're trying to call out other power roles on D1. You keep building up this "skill" you have at finding scum and reading town tells without ever providing examples. You're hedging your bets and waffling. You are promising content and not delivering, asking us to "wait and see" and you'll do things "next."
I'm saddened by your shortcomings, whatever you accuse me here was done with the town best interests in heart, I've learned (amusingly with Kpaca)that by not providing my comprehensible reasons one can get two kind of responses:
a)Ask for clarification.
b)Mudsling, accusations and votes.
One of them is a town trait, the other not so much. Anyway, I don't have a scum read of you but I think you should calm down and chill, everything has an explanation and will be giving it this post.
[DRey is scummy enough that that will sort itself out one way or another. Stardust, I'm less certain about now but I'd still like him to be pressured to see how he handles it. Xyre has been solid since his terrible meta argument early on.
"DRey is scummy but I will not vote him yet, he can be sorted later"
"Actually scrap my own reasoning in this very post, after this preview edit I noticed there's indeed a wagon on him, so time to save my skin". It's also of note that in this post Caex has expressed suspicion on 6 players(me, Zion, Che, Well, Xyre, Star), and zero town reads. Remember this post when Caex flips scum.
I'm feeling a bit confused now. Caex's last couple of posts have felt more townie than anything prior, at least townie enough that I'm not comfortable lynching an unCC'd PR at this point, and Zionite's answers to my questions gave me the impression that I was fighting with a townie as well, despite apparent contradictions in wording. Maybe those contradictions were just errors in wording... but then why would he defend them so vehemently? Ugh.
Please expand on why Caex is being townie now. Because that's not what I'm seeing, his reasons for playing brazenly as cop make much more sense from a scum deciding to false-claim cop than a town cop that needs to fly under the radar, particularly a cop that can't be docced.
So DRey... There are lots of little things, but the big ones for me are 1) his jump on Xyre (which we've now learned was based on absolutely nothing since DRey wasn't even reading Xyre's posts)
Far from the truth, I've read all Xyre posts except the walls directed at Zion, now tell me Star, are you reading my posts? because I don't even know how you could come to this conclusion if you really were.
2) his "spill the beans" post where he leaves out more than half the players and barns his entire case on Caex (including a slip where he says kpaca's got a point about Caex's sig, not avatar - clearly not his own thought and not even critically considered), and
WOW, so instead of asking if I had misspelled you just assume I thought Caex sig was scummy instead of his avatar? Even considering his sig has no relevance to this game? I also never barned Caex case, I was the first to notice his play didn't match with his town meta and also didn't made sense considering his claim, also I'm a town dwarf myself so I know the town is comprised of dwarves, and that means the white orc in his sig is not a towntell (Kpaca's reasons imho) so I would not expect a townie to put that avatar after reading his role PM, however as he said he put that avatar before reading the role PM (and I have no way to disprove that) I'm now disregarding that point as null. Now tell me again I didn't critically consider my reasons for attacking him for that.
3) his flip from not wanting the CC (maybe to score town points because he thought the Caex momentum would get him lynched anyway) to wanting the CC (now that the momentum has clearly died down). If Caex is scum, it makes much more sense for scumDRey to go for the claim only after he's made sure his attempt at bussing had truly failed. If Caex is town, scumDRey tried to get the cop lynched, but then decided to spearhead his proving Caex as town instead? Just speculation, but the point is that in either case it's very odd for a townie to have that same change of heart after the momentum shift. It should have been the opposite.
You are wrong, it makes complete sense for me to have a change of heart, because I'm town and I changed heart.
Jokes aside I will explain my reasons for that change for you guys (Cy, you and Well if I remember well). When I first read his claim some things stuck out to me, first he forgot to claim flavor, second, his play was completely unreasonable for a cop, third he claimed in the "scum way", we know it's common for trapped scum to falseclaim a power role on their way out, and when they do it they usually try to talk as little as possible to prevent being unmasked before a CC, they also know that when the falseclaim he's basically on borrowed time so they stop answering questions, providing reasonings, defense or writing anymore, in the end they simply give up playing as it would just be a waste of time considering they are just waiting for the CC.
Besides emanating these traits I imagined he was trying to fearmonger the town by claiming a cop with a superior passive, that's why I asked for clarification on his passive. We know the cop is simply one of the strongest power roles (if not the strongest) and if he claimed a beneficial passive, I would say we lynch him even without a CC, because there's simply no way a "supercop" would pass review. If he claimed a drawback I could have believed his claim more.
In the end his claimed passive was both good and bad, and didn't push me one way or another, so now I can't agree with lynching him without a CC(mostly because of this game). Next I questioned myself again if it was worthwhile to the real cop to CC him and thought it could be because he by claiming what he did, was showing a great desire to reach the night. I'm afraid he can be a scum power role so he claimed that time bomb just to gain one night to do his stuff.
Now thinking some more about this and considering my own plan I again believe it's not worthwhile for the real cop to come out because everything will be settle toMorrow one way or another.
The detailed plan
We will only lynch Caex toDay if he's CCed. If that happens our cop will be outed and potentially nullified, so it's better not. On the plus side we probably will lynch a scum PR. If he's not CCed, no matter how scummy he's been, it's just a high-risk low reward play to lynch him toDay.
the night
If he's town he will be killed toNight without really helping us but at least the scum will spend a NK on a weaker player. If he's scum he will not be killed toNight. Doc/vig should not target him, trackers should do whatever they want and watcher should target him.
toMorrow
If he's alive he will have "a result", and probably a guilty on someone, no matter, he needs to be lynched because he will be confirmed scum at that point.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
@DRey: That's one hell of a misrep you just slapped on me. How the **** does "DRey is scummy enough that that will sort itself out one way or another" translate into "DRey is scummy but I will not vote him yet, he can be sorted later"?
BTW, I don't particularly suspect WoLG. But he appears to be skating under the radar a bit and that could be very dangerous later in the game. He's posting good content but he's not receiving a lot of attention for it, which seems odd. Don't mistake my caution for suspicion.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
@DRey: That's one hell of a misrep you just slapped on me. How the **** does "DRey is scummy enough that that will sort itself out one way or another" translate into "DRey is scummy but I will not vote him yet, he can be sorted later"?
Later to me mean later, not now. Meaning you started your post saying I would be caught later, and you changed your opinion right after seeing the vote on me with the p.edit. Sorry but I don't think seeing a wagon develop should make a townie change heart about when to deal with a player he's not sure of.
Hey DRey. Imagine you are Caex. Say you are town, and have been truthful the whole time. Would you rather give yourself up and be lynched (because according to your theory he will die during the night anyway), or would you do everything to get someone else lynched, potentially a power role? (In other words, save your skin.)
Good point, but I never said he should be accepting his lynch. He should fight to the end, and that is independent of his alignment. Heck, I don't even want to see him lynched myself because if I'm wrong we're ****ed.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
You're never going to respond to me, are you, DRey?
Already did a long time ago, but I can do it again for your pleasure: I can't prove what I don't believe myself, I never thought your walls with Zion were fake because I never read them. Now your turn, answer my question, why are you voting me?
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Thanks for the plan DRey but unfortunately for it to work I now have to switch my vote to you
Why you have to vote me, instead of the other... 10 options?
Also votecount please.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
This wagon stinks so much, I don't even know why I'm being voted since I haven't even explained myself until my big post. I mean, Xyre and Caex are scum, but the others? Dunno why.
@everyone on my wagon why you are voting me? Does the explanation of everything I did not make sense and if not, why? Do you still have any question.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
You're never going to respond to me, are you, DRey?
Already did a long time ago, but I can do it again for your pleasure: I can't prove what I don't believe myself, I never thought your walls with Zion were fake because I never read them. Now your turn, answer my question, why are you voting me?
So wait, you accused me of being fake with Zionite despite... not having read the walls to begin with?
At this point, you're either ludicrously overconfident or you're scum. Ugh. I need to go reread Ataghan.
So wait, you accused me of being fake with Zionite despite... not having read the walls to begin with?
At this point, you're either ludicrously overconfident or you're scum. Ugh. I need to go reread Ataghan.
Are you kidding me? You have just confirmed you aren't reading my posts yet you already voted me, without even believing I'm scum?? . Since when you vote someone before thinking that player is scum Xyre? Shouldn't you be trying to meta me before voting and not after?
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
So wait, you accused me of being fake with Zionite despite... not having read the walls to begin with?
At this point, you're either ludicrously overconfident or you're scum. Ugh. I need to go reread Ataghan.
Are you kidding me? You have just confirmed you aren't reading my posts yet you already voted me, without even believing I'm scum?? . Since when you vote someone before thinking that player is scum Xyre? Shouldn't you be trying to meta me before voting and not after?
I voted you because your play is outrageous. You make accusations without base, you aren't posting like a townie, you're extolling the virtues of keeping Caex alive... it's just bizarre play. Hence my worry this is somehow your town meta. Hence why I need to go look back at Ataghan.
The reason Caex can't be trusted anymore is this: the mafia could just choose not to shoot him to incriminate him and make us lynch him for free, assuming he wasn't shot because he's actually mafia. Since we can't tell one from the other, it's a lost cause.
I'm advocating vigging him only under the assumption we have a vig and thus can save ourselves the trouble of lynching him. Otherwise, I agree with you that he should be lynched right now.
Also, reading your games gives me a headache. I can't tell if arrogance is truly a town-tell for you.
Why did a new forum "Community issues" appear suddenly with old posts? I though it was a new forum but it seems I was banned from it before?
I suspect that new MTGS users are unable to access that forum due to a history of MTGS users using gimmick (duplicate) accounts to stir up drama there.
@ Stardust: The reason to fear cop claims is (a) they're easy for the mafia to fake, (b) they have a chance of outing the real cop inadvertently, and (c) they scare the town because it could be they're true.
@ kpaca: Do you really have a vig shot? I could get behind vigging Caex tonight. No matter what we do, I definitely don't want the day to end before DRey responds to all the questions/accusations before him.
This is the most important post to determine Xyre alignment. Let's go through it in depth. First he starts fencesitting that a cop claim is both unlikely but should scare the town because it may be real. Note that he never gives his opinion about the cop per se. The most damming part is the second one however, there he tries to direct the vig to shoot Caex, don't forget Xyre was voting Caex back there, his supposedly biggest scumread. Why don't lynch his biggest scumread but vig him instead? This shows us two things.
1)Despite currently voting Caex plus not believing his claim, Xyre both doesn't support nor expect his lynch today. How this makes one lick of sense? Why not pushing for a lynch of the very same guy you want vigged? Certainly not because he want the cop to give one result before dying, because vigged cops can't talk.
2)Xyre want Caex to reach the night, but isn't really that concerned with him living for another day.
There's not many explanations for both of these things, let run through all scenarios, considering both alignments.
Xyre is town
Xyre is not really sure Caex is scum, so he's afraid of lynching him despite not believing his claim as a cop is important. I can relate to this, because I'm in the same position, however this is impossible because Xyre is supporting the vig of the potential cop, in the end silencing him before he could come up with at least one result. Conclusion: impossible for Xyre to push for this if he was town, Xyre is not an idiot.
Xyre is scum Caex is town
Now things get interesting, if town follows Xyre's plan, he accomplishes soooo much to advance scum position is not even funny. He both: wastes the vig shot, kills and silence the cop, prevents the scum from being caught by the watcher (while also potentially incriminating the vig!), potentially free the scum NK to another target. All of this while also avoiding the responsibility of being part of the "wagon that lynched the cop". Conclusion: Huuuuge play for the scum, scum Xyre is certainly capable of having thought about this, but in the end I think it's not likely because Caex doesn't make sense as town.
Xyre is scum Caex is scum
This is what I believe the truth is. By protecting Caex from the lynch but not for the vig, he allows him a use of his hiphotetical scum power, he manages to save Caex if there's no vig (unlimited vigs are not really common on minis) potentially WIFOMing his life toMorrow and he gets town credit if Caex does end up vigged. Conclusion: Considering Caex bizarre attack on Xyre from the get go (that's called busing), Xyre's sudden late hop onto Caex from zero to a gigantic case by repeating points of players he think are scum and now both supporting his lynch but not really, I'm confident this is the truth.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
The reason Caex can't be trusted anymore is this: the mafia could just choose not to shoot him to incriminate him and make us lynch him for free, assuming he wasn't shot because he's actually mafia. Since we can't tell one from the other, it's a lost cause.
No it's not a lost cause and you know it! Even if we consider the mafia is stupid enough to risk a cop result and don't kill him N1, we will gain more lynching him toMorrow than lynching him toDay. He will reveal his result, and if he's lynched and does flip town we will know that result is reliable. Why don't you want to consider this in your fearmonger scenario?
I'm advocating vigging him only under the assumption we have a vig and thus can save ourselves the trouble of lynching him. Otherwise, I agree with you that he should be lynched right now.
Jesus Christ, for the last time. I DON'T AGREE WITH LYNCHING CAEX WITHOUT A CC. Stop misrepping me scum.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
It's also of note that in this post Caex has expressed suspicion on 6 players(me, Zion, Che, Well, Xyre, Star), and zero town reads. Remember this post when Caex flips scum.
For a moment, I thought you had a point, until I looked back at the post in question and saw that this was a blatant misrep. He discusses six players, but a couple of them were suspects he was backing off of. If anything, I found that post to be a point in Caex's favor.
In addition, your claim that it is "impossible" for Xyre to be town is simply untrue, and using words like "impossible" sounds like you're creating a false dilemma, trying to make it seem like he must be scum, when that just isn't the case.
Throwing suspicion on your attackers, misrepresenting them, and not claiming when you are L-2? I'd vote, but I want that claim first please.
- presumably if Caex and I are scum buddies, you think I'm trying to get him vigged in order to save his life, eg by doc protecting him. But if we show up tomorrow and a vig says 'I shot Caex and he didn't die,' that's going to implicate Caex and me, right? It's a stupid plan. So maybe it's not my plan, eh?
- I do have a plan, just not the one your myopia presents
- I've already explained why shooting the cop is the right play. But I'm curious - do you or don't you believe Caex's claim? You seem to be bouncing back and forth on that point.
- presumably if Caex and I are scum buddies, you think I'm trying to get him vigged in order to save his life, eg by doc protecting him. But if we show up tomorrow and a vig says 'I shot Caex and he didn't die,' that's going to implicate Caex and me, right? It's a stupid plan. So maybe it's not my plan, eh?
- I do have a plan, just not the one your myopia presents
- I've already explained why shooting the cop is the right play. But I'm curious - do you or don't you believe Caex's claim? You seem to be bouncing back and forth on that point.
- while you're at it, claim plz
Quick Question: Why vig him tonight? If he is telling the truth about his role and alignment, that eliminates all possible good that could come from his ability. If we let him live another night, that could give us more possible investigations. He can't be roleblocked, so even if he comes in and clears someone as town then we have a confirmed townie. If he comes in and says he's found scum, we pursue that line of inquiry.
If he's lying about it, the real cop will be able to make an investigation into someone. Caex would then have to come into the game tomorrow, clear or condemn someone, and we could go from there. If he's scum and busses one of his scumbuddies, then a scum gets killed, if he "clears" a townie (or scum) we can worry about lynching him then.
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If the logic for not lynching Caex is to let the NK deal with him, then it makes no sense to direct a vig to him too. Either we lynch him or we let him live; no need to shoot.
I still think we should be lynching Caex. I'm positive he's scum and his support for the DRey wagon makes me not want to go along with it despite my suspicions of DRey.
I want to vig him simply because: (a) I don't trust him and doubt I will trust any results he provides, until he's dead; (b) consequently don't trust to see what he might turn up tomorrow - call me paranoid; (c) consequently want to see him dead; (d) figure even if he may or may not be nightkilled, I want to cover my bases, and don't trust to leave open the possibility of failure; and (e) want to pick a lynch too.
I can see the argument for lynching Caex and shooting DRey; I just prefer vice-versa.
Once upon a lifetime a player has the prerogative of refusing to claim at L-2. I will be using this prerogative right now for a couple of reasons: some players haven't expressed understanding about the implications of their vote (Che), some players have voted me for not explaining stuff that I've now successfully explained (Star, CC), some players on my wagon are scum (Caex, Xyre). In the end my wagon is full of hot air, like the Zion one. However, I will claim if two more people express their desire to vote me, or if the players that haven't explained their votes to me, explain and aren't satisfied with all the explanations I've provided for my play so far.
I voted you because your play is outrageous. You make accusations without base, you aren't posting like a townie, you're extolling the virtues of keeping Caex alive... it's just bizarre play. Hence my worry this is somehow your town meta. Hence why I need to go look back at Ataghan.
Those reasons are outrageous Xyre. I already have explained the reasons of my attacks, "aren't posting like a townie" is meaningless, vague and unacceptable as a reason, because as you would say yourself "it's an accusation without base", and extolling the virtues of keeping Caex alive is the correct play here for the reasons I've provided in lengths. You is the one that haven't neither refuted my reasons with logic nor explained how vigging the cop but not lynching him makes a lick of sense. "I'm paranoid" is not a good reason.
In addition, your claim that it is "impossible" for Xyre to be town is simply untrue, and using words like "impossible" sounds like you're creating a false dilemma, trying to make it seem like he must be scum, when that just isn't the case.
Yes, is really untrue, I agree "impossible to be true" is never quite correct because no matter what I think there's always the possibility of me being wrong I admit this, but you are an experienced guy, have you never seen a townie with conviction before? I use strong words to strenghten my cases, I've always done this, I will always do. Can I be wrong? Yes. Do I think I'm wrong? Hell no!
For a moment, I thought you had a point, until I looked back at the post in question and saw that this was a blatant misrep. He discusses six players, but a couple of them were suspects he was backing off of. If anything, I found that post to be a point in Caex's favor.
There's a world of difference when scum and town discusses players CC. While afraid of clearing the mafia, townies usually are more open to notice town traits. Scum on the other hand is wary of clearing too many people or they will end up without options, because scum hate to completely backtrack reads, that's the main reason scum loves to fencesit instead of being open, they don't really want to clear anyone. Please read Caex post again and note that the way he discusses about his "townreads" is always non-commital, like he's always open to revisit them at a moments notice.
Actually you don't need to read it again, I will analyze it for you to prove I'm not trying to misrep him, I was quite correct in my assessment.
DRey is scummy enough that that will sort itself out one way or another. Stardust, I'm less certain about now but I'd still like him to be pressured to see how he handles it. Xyre has been solid since his terrible meta argument early on.
The infamous "Drey is scummy but we can deal with him later" is far from a town read of me. "Stardust I'm not sure, but I say we pressure him more to see if he make him implode" is also certainly not clearing him. "Xyre is being townie atm but don't forget this terrible stuff he did early on" I admit can be considered a town read, but feels contrived. To me he's paving the way for a backtrack but doesn't really want to.
On an unrelated note: I'm less certain about Xyre (and Stardust to a lesser degree). All I really had on Xyre was his terrible meta argument from early in the game. He's not been scummy since then to any significant degree.
Stardust has been asking pretty good questions lately. I still really dislike his "I'm going to scumslip and I'm always scummy" comment but since then I haven't really seen anything that points to him being scum.
This is mostly a repeat of his previous sentence. Reminds both Xyre and Star scumdeeds but reiterates he's not sure. I can accept this is not really an attack on Xyre and Star but he's certainly not trying very hard to defend them either, the door is open for a backtrack.
DRey and Zionite and Che seem like much better candidates right now.
Preview Edit: Unvote Vote DRey
In the end he completely forget he was suspicious of Well early on the post, doesn't provide any reason for his Che, Zion and Well scumreads plus suddenly insert Zion's name from nowhere.
Now CC, tell me again why do you think I'm trying to misrep Caex, because after rereading the post it gets even worse. Not only he doesn't have any townreads, but throws names from nowhere without any explanation (Che, Well, Zion), says I'm cool but vote me anyway right after noticing my wagon is real with the p.edit, and says Well is scummy at the start of the post but forgets his own read by the end of the post (Well is nowhere to be seen). This is not a genuine post, those reads are fabricated, in the end he doesn't even remember what he was talking in the very same post by the end of it.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Hey, in my rereads of Xyre look what I noticed. The guy is fishing for claims since the start of the game. And I'm not even putting the quote he asked Kpaca if he was really the vig. Summing it all he already asked for claims of four different players (Caex, me, Kpaca, Zion) since the start of the game. Why he has only 2 votes again?
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Holy **** refusal to claim, DRey is scummier than Caex
Push for hammer
Seriously that the only thing you have to comment about it all is just this? I think I've refused to claim in all my town games so far.
@Caex what do you think about Xyre after my cases on him?
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Okay, I'll slap down your misreps. It's like playing a particularly annoying game of Whack-A-Mole.
I've already explained why I put WoLG's name in there. See post #283. I've expressed suspicion of both Zionite and Che previously. Didn't feel necessary to repeat myself.
Quote from DRey »
The infamous "Drey is scummy but we can deal with him later" is far from a town read of me. "Stardust I'm not sure, but I say we pressure him more to see if he make him implode" is also certainly not clearing him. "Xyre is being townie atm but don't forget this terrible stuff he did early on" I admit can be considered a town read, but feels contrived. To me he's paving the way for a backtrack but doesn't really want to.
And again, I never said we can "Deal with DRey later". Here's the exact quote again, since you apparently haven't actually read it: "DRey is scummy enough that that will sort itself out one way or another." Where do I say we can deal with you later? Nowhere, that's where. You're pushing a stupid point against me based on something that doesn't even exist.
I never said I was clearing Stardust either. I said I'm less sure about him right now. I was never trying to "clear" him or defend him, I was just explaining why I didn't put you, Xyre, or Stardust in my "people I'll investigate" answer to Wessel after I'd expressed suspicion of said people previously. Pretty much the same with Xyre, which you say could be a town tell but "feels contrived". That's about as vague as you can get.
I don't even think I have to continue to show how much bull**** DRey is shoveling.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
OK, let’s do some damage here.
8 (DRey): Well, that was quick. Definite alarm bells going off for this post.
14 (Zionite): This response rubs me the wrong way. I would’ve expected a more visceral “that post sucks” reaction from a townie.
15 (Stardust): “Can someone walk me through this?” also sets off alarm bells. Early noob card from Stardust, whose meta I’m not familiar with – but I’m sure this isn’t his first time at the rodeo.
20 (Xyre): This is “ORLYSCUM” play from Xyre. Not crazy about it. Every awful DRey post doesn’t make him auto-scum – every vote on a scummy player by kpaca doesn’t automatically mean he’s bussing. I feel like Xyre is better than this.
25 (Wessel): Good solid post here. Liking this analysis of Zionite’s weak post.
39 (Zionite): Really hating “analyzing my wagon” here. It’s the 39th post! It feels like Zionite is “playing the game.” None of his posts feel natural or like they’re coming from gut. They feel like ice sculptures.
50 (D_V): Well, that sounds like the worst idea ever.
52 (Stardust): This was also really so soft. Is Stardust always this…faux-earnest? Need to check up on this guy’s meta.
53 (Caex): Also doing little for me with this post. You don’t remember Ataghan at all?
62 (Xyre): Yes, but where’s the relation to what kpaca is actually doing in this game? It was DRey who brought the bus in Seasons in a bad overreaction to ZasZ’s bad plan. Kpaca only joined the attack once he saw how bad the two of them were making each other look. You’re reaching too hard to fit one kpaca post into a meta pattern that may not even be real.
68 (kpaca): Any chance of getting you to elaborate on just what that mindset is exactly?
(I see several people will immediately pull you up on this, which decreases the chance that you’ll answer it.)
78 (DRey): What does Caex getting vigged have to do with Zionite being lynched today?
80 (Caex): You say you’re willing to vote Stardust, but did you mention him at any point yet? I’ll get back to this. 81 (Stardust): “So stay in shape, eh?” Good Lord, I’m hating Stardust so much right now. Trying to figure out if this is just my natural reaction to a scummy-looking newer player or if real gut scum-vibes. 82 (Zionite): I agree with his assessment of Caex’s posting so far. He and Stardust are at the top of my list at the moment. 83 (Caex): That’s a specific. Not specifics. It also feels really perfunctory, like “oh I know you’ll ask me for this, so here I am, jumping through your hoop. Happy?” 87 (Che): Really fake post here. “Hydro” was especially egregious. This guy is not who he claims to be, although that means nothing for his alignment in this game. 93 (Stardust): Rightfully questions Caex’s seemingly throwaway mention of his name as a possible lynch target. Interested to see the response. 95 (Caex): Shocking response here. Tasty OMGUS from Caex – if I were voting, I’d be voting for him at this point. 98 (Stardust): Interestingly introspective post from here that gives Star town points. If I were scum in Star’s position I’d be all over Caex for his abysmal OMGUS vote – that wagon would look like a total banker. But Stardust instead chooses to mull it over – out loud, no less. 100 (Xyre): I think I see a bit of tunnel vision developing here. Zionite is still scummy but the lack of mention of other scummy players worries me a bit, although he did say it was just a “quick post.” 111 (DRey): Let he who is without sin…. 112 (Wessel): Not crazy about this. Xyre is pressing the attack against Zionite, another main target of yours, but you say he’s doing nothing? 113 (Zionite): For someone who was breaking out the Latin not long ago, your use of “which was quite obvious to everyone else” is just as much an appeal to the masses as Caex’s post was not long ago. Zzz. 114 (Xyre): Not nearly as open-and-shut as Xyre tries to make it sound. I wonder what the point of that “sit down” comment was. You aren’t going to shake Zionite with posturing like that – was the plan to convince newer players like Stardust, Caex, and possibly Che with that attempt at forcefulness? 115 (Xyre): Don’t agree. Caex sounds like he’s going along to get along, especially with every word that’s come out of his mouth so far concerning Stardust. He’s scum, in my opinion, who’s learning from his Ataghan mistake re: PBPA walls (which were discussed in the postgame as a weakness of his.) 118 (Stardust): Early read on Stardust rapidly reversing. Very good review of his own post regarding Zionite and does well to keep both Xyre and Zionite honest here. 122 (Caex): Ex post facto justification here. You were already mentioning Stardust as a potential scum before he said anything about the likelihood of his committing scumslips – see your post 80. A follow-up on that – in 123, you then ask Zionite to explain why he has a town read on Stardust when you have thus far failed to explain why you have a scum read on him. Why the disconnect? 124 (Zionite): This response blows Xyre out of the water. Can’t tell if that’s down to the shoddiness of Xyre’s initial attack (which would be a logical point for a scum to turn a regular defense into a comprehensive defeat of all points such as this one – see me doing the same to Cyan in Hecatea) or because Zionite is actually town. 125 (Xyre): This is a lot better, especially the point about Zionite and the third vote by kpaca. 131-136 (kpaca/Stardust): kpaca opens with “shifty votes and contrived efforts”. After questioning by Stardust, he clarifies that DRey, Wessel, and maybe Che might be “shifty.” That leaves just Xyre for “contrived efforts.” I don’t see Wessel as shifty at all, and Xyre’s effort doesn’t feel contrived either. Not loving this. 138 (Xyre): A lot of this was unnecessary rhetorical butting of heads. The main point I took away from this post was that it reminded me of how Zionite said “but I’ll humor you just for kicks”, which reminds me of the feeble language he was using in Cyberspace. 140 (DRey): Shocking vote here and it makes me wonder how closely you’re following the back-and-forth. Xyre’s weak opening post was duly defeated by Zionite, but Xyre then bounced back with another supplemental case (way better than the first) and also attacked Zionite’s rebuttal. The pressure is definitely on Zionite here, not Xyre, so how can the latter be “imploding?” 149 (WoLG): Would like to see a little more from you – I think this post is OK, although it’s a little on the mild side. Some stronger convictions would help get a better read. 150 (CC): No mention of Zionite’s role in the PBPA war between him and Xyre – all the focus on the aggressor. Any reason for this? I also don’t like how you characterize kpaca as “active[ly] scumhunting”, cause he totally isn’t. 151 (Zionite): Happy birthday. We’ll see if this is a ploy to dodge pressure (not that it isn’t your birthday or anything, but this post read to me as pretty classic “wait until the storm passes” scum behavior.) 155 (Caex): Deflection onto kpaca. Never mind what he’s doing for a moment. Explain what you’re doing first. I wasn’t crazy about CC’s initial post 150 but about the only thing he got right there was, well, you. 168 (Zionite): Very soft response to the best point of Xyre’s case. It wasn’t a question of why you would vote or wouldn’t vote kpaca for the third vote, it’s a question of why you would use the third vote business as a stick to bludgeon CC with while hypocritically ignoring kpaca’s same offense. 171 (Caex): DRey, this is what a scum implosion looks like, down to the “more votes.” 188 (DRey): Bad post but the “pay attention to me, guys!” attitude present in this post and the “this game is boring” post preceding it doesn’t really make sense from a scum perspective. Can’t see scum DRey being so desperate for attention as long as a) he’s safe and b) a powerful scumbuddy isn’t on the chopping block, both of which are true at present.
That will do for now – made it through more than half. Consider my vote on Caex.
Ignore that badly formatted post and read it here instead:
OK, let’s do some damage here.
8 (DRey): Well, that was quick. Definite alarm bells going off for this post. 14 (Zionite): This response rubs me the wrong way. I would’ve expected a more visceral “that post sucks” reaction from a townie. 15 (Stardust): “Can someone walk me through this?” also sets off alarm bells. Early noob card from Stardust, whose meta I’m not familiar with – but I’m sure this isn’t his first time at the rodeo. 20 (Xyre): This is “ORLYSCUM” play from Xyre. Not crazy about it. Every awful DRey post doesn’t make him auto-scum – every vote on a scummy player by kpaca doesn’t automatically mean he’s bussing. I feel like Xyre is better than this. 25 (Wessel): Good solid post here. Liking this analysis of Zionite’s weak post. 39 (Zionite): Really hating “analyzing my wagon” here. It’s the 39th post! It feels like Zionite is “playing the game.” None of his posts feel natural or like they’re coming from gut. They feel like ice sculptures. 50 (D_V): Well, that sounds like the worst idea ever. 52 (Stardust): This was also really so soft. Is Stardust always this…faux-earnest? Need to check up on this guy’s meta. 53 (Caex): Also doing little for me with this post. You don’t remember Ataghan at all? 62 (Xyre): Yes, but where’s the relation to what kpaca is actually doing in this game? It was DRey who brought the bus in Seasons in a bad overreaction to ZasZ’s bad plan. Kpaca only joined the attack once he saw how bad the two of them were making each other look. You’re reaching too hard to fit one kpaca post into a meta pattern that may not even be real. 68 (kpaca): Any chance of getting you to elaborate on just what that mindset is exactly?
(I see several people will immediately pull you up on this, which decreases the chance that you’ll answer it.) 78 (DRey): What does Caex getting vigged have to do with Zionite being lynched today? 80 (Caex): You say you’re willing to vote Stardust, but did you mention him at any point yet? I’ll get back to this. 81 (Stardust): “So stay in shape, eh?” Good Lord, I’m hating Stardust so much right now. Trying to figure out if this is just my natural reaction to a scummy-looking newer player or if real gut scum-vibes. 82 (Zionite): I agree with his assessment of Caex’s posting so far. He and Stardust are at the top of my list at the moment. 83 (Caex): That’s a specific. Not specifics. It also feels really perfunctory, like “oh I know you’ll ask me for this, so here I am, jumping through your hoop. Happy?” 87 (Che): Really fake post here. “Hydro” was especially egregious. This guy is not who he claims to be, although that means nothing for his alignment in this game. 93 (Stardust): Rightfully questions Caex’s seemingly throwaway mention of his name as a possible lynch target. Interested to see the response. 95 (Caex): Shocking response here. Tasty OMGUS from Caex – if I were voting, I’d be voting for him at this point. 98 (Stardust): Interestingly introspective post from here that gives Star town points. If I were scum in Star’s position I’d be all over Caex for his abysmal OMGUS vote – that wagon would look like a total banker. But Stardust instead chooses to mull it over – out loud, no less. 100 (Xyre): I think I see a bit of tunnel vision developing here. Zionite is still scummy but the lack of mention of other scummy players worries me a bit, although he did say it was just a “quick post.” 111 (DRey): Let he who is without sin…. 112 (Wessel): Not crazy about this. Xyre is pressing the attack against Zionite, another main target of yours, but you say he’s doing nothing? 113 (Zionite): For someone who was breaking out the Latin not long ago, your use of “which was quite obvious to everyone else” is just as much an appeal to the masses as Caex’s post was not long ago. Zzz. 114 (Xyre): Not nearly as open-and-shut as Xyre tries to make it sound. I wonder what the point of that “sit down” comment was. You aren’t going to shake Zionite with posturing like that – was the plan to convince newer players like Stardust, Caex, and possibly Che with that attempt at forcefulness? 115 (Xyre): Don’t agree. Caex sounds like he’s going along to get along, especially with every word that’s come out of his mouth so far concerning Stardust. He’s scum, in my opinion, who’s learning from his Ataghan mistake re: PBPA walls (which were discussed in the postgame as a weakness of his.) 118 (Stardust): Early read on Stardust rapidly reversing. Very good review of his own post regarding Zionite and does well to keep both Xyre and Zionite honest here. 122 (Caex): Ex post facto justification here. You were already mentioning Stardust as a potential scum before he said anything about the likelihood of his committing scumslips – see your post 80. A follow-up on that – in 123, you then ask Zionite to explain why he has a town read on Stardust when you have thus far failed to explain why you have a scum read on him. Why the disconnect? 124 (Zionite): This response blows Xyre out of the water. Can’t tell if that’s down to the shoddiness of Xyre’s initial attack (which would be a logical point for a scum to turn a regular defense into a comprehensive defeat of all points such as this one – see me doing the same to Cyan in Hecatea) or because Zionite is actually town. 125 (Xyre): This is a lot better, especially the point about Zionite and the third vote by kpaca. 131-136 (kpaca/Stardust): kpaca opens with “shifty votes and contrived efforts”. After questioning by Stardust, he clarifies that DRey, Wessel, and maybe Che might be “shifty.” That leaves just Xyre for “contrived efforts.” I don’t see Wessel as shifty at all, and Xyre’s effort doesn’t feel contrived either. Not loving this. 138 (Xyre): A lot of this was unnecessary rhetorical butting of heads. The main point I took away from this post was that it reminded me of how Zionite said “but I’ll humor you just for kicks”, which reminds me of the feeble language he was using in Cyberspace. 140 (DRey): Shocking vote here and it makes me wonder how closely you’re following the back-and-forth. Xyre’s weak opening post was duly defeated by Zionite, but Xyre then bounced back with another supplemental case (way better than the first) and also attacked Zionite’s rebuttal. The pressure is definitely on Zionite here, not Xyre, so how can the latter be “imploding?” 149 (WoLG): Would like to see a little more from you – I think this post is OK, although it’s a little on the mild side. Some stronger convictions would help get a better read. 150 (CC): No mention of Zionite’s role in the PBPA war between him and Xyre – all the focus on the aggressor. Any reason for this? I also don’t like how you characterize kpaca as “active[ly] scumhunting”, cause he totally isn’t. 151 (Zionite): Happy birthday. We’ll see if this is a ploy to dodge pressure (not that it isn’t your birthday or anything, but this post read to me as pretty classic “wait until the storm passes” scum behavior.) 155 (Caex): Deflection onto kpaca. Never mind what he’s doing for a moment. Explain what you’re doing first. I wasn’t crazy about CC’s initial post 150 but about the only thing he got right there was, well, you. 168 (Zionite): Very soft response to the best point of Xyre’s case. It wasn’t a question of why you would vote or wouldn’t vote kpaca for the third vote, it’s a question of why you would use the third vote business as a stick to bludgeon CC with while hypocritically ignoring kpaca’s same offense. 171 (Caex): DRey, this is what a scum implosion looks like, down to the “more votes.” 188 (DRey): Bad post but the “pay attention to me, guys!” attitude present in this post and the “this game is boring” post preceding it doesn’t really make sense from a scum perspective. Can’t see scum DRey being so desperate for attention as long as a) he’s safe and b) a powerful scumbuddy isn’t on the chopping block, both of which are true at present.
That will do for now – made it through more than half. Consider my vote on Caex.
I think I really screwed myself this game. When I saw my role PM I basically thought "Hey, I'm unlynchable!" I took it as an excuse to play faster and looser than I normally would. Which is probably why I'm now forced to claim.
Not "play scummier". Play more aggressively and without a lot of regard for how I'm perceived. And yes, I do think being a cop makes me more resistant to lynching.
A few things:
1. You said earlier that you were interested in voting the biggest wagon.
2. You said your plan was to be roleblocked. Why wouldn't they just kill you instead?
3. If your claim was a contingency plan in the case suspicion fell on you, why the lines of "you'll feel stupid if this keeps up"?
1. Because the biggest wagon was Zionite. I said I was interested in voting Zionite.
2. Because if I came back D2 and said "Sorry guys, no result because of roleblock" there was a pretty good chance I'd be lynched. They could 2-for-1 the town by getting in a NK on a stronger player and blocking me. I was trying to get off at least one investigation before I die.
3. Because I didn't want to claim. As you said it was a contingency plan, not Plan A. I was trying to drop a hint that I had a PR.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I think I really screwed myself this game. When I saw my role PM I basically thought "Hey, I'm unlynchable!" I took it as an excuse to play faster and looser than I normally would. Which is probably why I'm now forced to claim.
Not "play scummier". Play more aggressively and without a lot of regard for how I'm perceived. And yes, I do think being a cop makes me more resistant to lynching.
A few things:
1. You said earlier that you were interested in voting the biggest wagon.
2. You said your plan was to be roleblocked. Why wouldn't they just kill you instead?
3. If your claim was a contingency plan in the case suspicion fell on you, why the lines of "you'll feel stupid if this keeps up"?
1. Because the biggest wagon was Zionite. I said I was interested in voting Zionite.
2. Because if I came back D2 and said "Sorry guys, no result because of roleblock" there was a pretty good chance I'd be lynched. They could 2-for-1 the town by getting in a NK on a stronger player and blocking me. I was trying to get off at least one investigation before I die.
3. Because I didn't want to claim. As you said it was a contingency plan, not Plan A. I was trying to drop a hint that I had a PR.
1. Circular logic.
2. Scum mindset for falseclaim.
3. Hint was too blatant for town.
1. Bull****. I said I would be willing to vote for you. Someone (DRey or Stardust, I think?) twisted it into "Caex said he'd vote the biggest wagon" instead of "Caex said he'd vote Zionite, who just happens to be the biggest wagon".
2. Bull****. How does "considering the ways the game could play out and betting on one being more optimal than the others" translate into "scum mindset"?
3. Bull****. I don't even have to explain why that's bull****.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
@Caex: If you were actually trying to draw a rolebock, why not lie and say that your drawback/benifit was that you were unnightkillable but could be roleblocked?
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1. Bull****. I said I would be willing to vote for you. Someone (DRey or Stardust, I think?) twisted it into "Caex said he'd vote the biggest wagon" instead of "Caex said he'd vote Zionite, who just happens to be the biggest wagon".
2. Bull****. How does "considering the ways the game could play out and betting on one being more optimal than the others" translate into "scum mindset"?
3. Bull****. I don't even have to explain why that's bull****.
Ahhhhhhhh
I really want Caex dead. Can we either lynch him now or hurry up and lynch DRey so the vig can shoot him or give us an easy lynch choice for tomorrow
Reading Drey's most recent response along with zindabad's analysis is making me reconsider things. Drey isn't my fav, but that looks like pretty genuine analysis of Caex.
I hate the idea of lynching a claimed cop without trying to get some use out of him, but at this point, I think knowing his alignment will be the more useful info to have now, rather than waiting for potential investigations that we won't even be able to trust until he flips.
Ultimately, he is the scummier of the two. I'd rather just get it done then have it possibly still hanging over our head in the morning.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
This is a good point. If he is town, and we call the vig, the scum basically get a double kill tonight. If he is scum, with what he's claimed, he can't survive until the end. No reason to blow our load to early.
I find myself liking WoLG's analysis here. I also don't like how Drey flips from "no one counter claim" to "okay, now it's cool." What's changed?
[The Family]
Anyway, it's time to turn to DRey... My reread yesterday more or less solidified my read of scum for all three of these guys, so I'm basically okay with lynching either Zionite or DRey today. If I'm wrong on any of these three I think I'll need either a flip or something drastic before I can really reevaluate those reads properly at this point.
So DRey... There are lots of little things, but the big ones for me are 1) his jump on Xyre (which we've now learned was based on absolutely nothing since DRey wasn't even reading Xyre's posts), 2) his "spill the beans" post where he leaves out more than half the players and barns his entire case on Caex (including a slip where he says kpaca's got a point about Caex's sig, not avatar - clearly not his own thought and not even critically considered), and 3) his flip from not wanting the CC (maybe to score town points because he thought the Caex momentum would get him lynched anyway) to wanting the CC (now that the momentum has clearly died down). If Caex is scum, it makes much more sense for scumDRey to go for the claim only after he's made sure his attempt at bussing had truly failed. If Caex is town, scumDRey tried to get the cop lynched, but then decided to spearhead his proving Caex as town instead? Just speculation, but the point is that in either case it's very odd for a townie to have that same change of heart after the momentum shift. It should have been the opposite.
The only thing really muddying this for me is that Caex jumped on the wagon without it feeling like a bus to me. I still think Caex is likely scum, but the lack of content directly linked to his vote on DRey feels to me like either scum joining the wagon on a townie, or a townie joining a wagon with characteristic self-confidence. I need to sort that out since I have 195 and 196 marked as Caex defending DRey without just cause, but that vote now feels like they may not be scum buddies.
Anyway, this still feels right. Unvote Zionite, Vote DRey.
A few things:
1. You said earlier that you were interested in voting the biggest wagon.
2. You said your plan was to be roleblocked. Why wouldn't they just kill you instead?
3. If your claim was a contingency plan in the case suspicion fell on you, why the lines of "you'll feel stupid if this keeps up"?
What changed?
He was at L-2.
Its a toss up, I'll read up all the DRey posts again this afternoon
Also, after thinking about it for a bit, CropCircles' logic in 272 looks spot on for dealing with Caex. If he's town, the scum need to kill him. If he doesn't die after a day or two, we lynch him. At least then we've got the chance to get some cop targets, and like Caex himself suggested, he'll be more likely to incriminate his scum buddies anyway. Win win!
Yes, it's different, but things have changed, I thought we could solve that with just the info we had, but in the end I'm not that sure it's actually possible. In the end I'm just too afraid of lynching the cop.
Yes, I may be waffling, but that's because I'm town, I only know about my role and despite everything pointing to Caex be lying scum, I have no way to know that for sure. I'm still thinking about the best plan and probably I will come up with something new again after a while, because the more I think, the more I change opinions, that's the way humans work.
Uhh, no? Why are you misrepping me so badly? I WILL defend my statemens, I WILL give my reasons, but I don't want to give answers to possible lurking scum. I will not barn anyone because my reasons are my own only, and I do have them.
False dichotomy, Kpaca just provided an example of a play that's not pro-town, and also not pro-scum: he falseclaimed vig. And do you know the correct course of action to guys that falseclaim vig when there's a real vig? It's to vig the liar back without counterclaiming. The thing is, he Kpaca does it all the time, both as town or scum. So that anti-town play is in fact null for him. He should not be vigged for that. My play was not pro-town neither pro-scum, I was just goofing around to gather reactions, in fact thinking better I think my play has been pro-town, because I'm getting everything I wanted and more. The game has been resurrected.
Good question! To me the best way to caught strong scum is to catch them saying things they don't believe themselves. Xyre's play on this game is a shinning example of this, he's saying so many lies and things he could not possible advocate that I'm sure he's scum with an ulterior motive.
You are correct on this one, I'm not completely up to date on Xyre X Zion fight, but that's not quite important imho, I believe Xyre is scum for other reasons, and Caex has just tied himself to him pretty handily, so it's all good.
I'm saddened by your shortcomings, whatever you accuse me here was done with the town best interests in heart, I've learned (amusingly with Kpaca)that by not providing my comprehensible reasons one can get two kind of responses:
a)Ask for clarification.
b)Mudsling, accusations and votes.
One of them is a town trait, the other not so much. Anyway, I don't have a scum read of you but I think you should calm down and chill, everything has an explanation and will be giving it this post.
Naked vote ftw. So, what gives Xyre? you just voted Caex citing my reasons for it. And now you vote the guy you were just barning? Seems legit.
"DRey is scummy but I will not vote him yet, he can be sorted later"
"Actually scrap my own reasoning in this very post, after this preview edit I noticed there's indeed a wagon on him, so time to save my skin". It's also of note that in this post Caex has expressed suspicion on 6 players(me, Zion, Che, Well, Xyre, Star), and zero town reads. Remember this post when Caex flips scum.
Please expand on why Caex is being townie now. Because that's not what I'm seeing, his reasons for playing brazenly as cop make much more sense from a scum deciding to false-claim cop than a town cop that needs to fly under the radar, particularly a cop that can't be docced.
Far from the truth, I've read all Xyre posts except the walls directed at Zion, now tell me Star, are you reading my posts? because I don't even know how you could come to this conclusion if you really were.
WOW, so instead of asking if I had misspelled you just assume I thought Caex sig was scummy instead of his avatar? Even considering his sig has no relevance to this game? I also never barned Caex case, I was the first to notice his play didn't match with his town meta and also didn't made sense considering his claim, also I'm a town dwarf myself so I know the town is comprised of dwarves, and that means the white orc in his sig is not a towntell (Kpaca's reasons imho) so I would not expect a townie to put that avatar after reading his role PM, however as he said he put that avatar before reading the role PM (and I have no way to disprove that) I'm now disregarding that point as null. Now tell me again I didn't critically consider my reasons for attacking him for that.
You are wrong, it makes complete sense for me to have a change of heart, because I'm town and I changed heart.
Jokes aside I will explain my reasons for that change for you guys (Cy, you and Well if I remember well). When I first read his claim some things stuck out to me, first he forgot to claim flavor, second, his play was completely unreasonable for a cop, third he claimed in the "scum way", we know it's common for trapped scum to falseclaim a power role on their way out, and when they do it they usually try to talk as little as possible to prevent being unmasked before a CC, they also know that when the falseclaim he's basically on borrowed time so they stop answering questions, providing reasonings, defense or writing anymore, in the end they simply give up playing as it would just be a waste of time considering they are just waiting for the CC.
Besides emanating these traits I imagined he was trying to fearmonger the town by claiming a cop with a superior passive, that's why I asked for clarification on his passive. We know the cop is simply one of the strongest power roles (if not the strongest) and if he claimed a beneficial passive, I would say we lynch him even without a CC, because there's simply no way a "supercop" would pass review. If he claimed a drawback I could have believed his claim more.
In the end his claimed passive was both good and bad, and didn't push me one way or another, so now I can't agree with lynching him without a CC(mostly because of this game). Next I questioned myself again if it was worthwhile to the real cop to CC him and thought it could be because he by claiming what he did, was showing a great desire to reach the night. I'm afraid he can be a scum power role so he claimed that time bomb just to gain one night to do his stuff.
Now thinking some more about this and considering my own plan I again believe it's not worthwhile for the real cop to come out because everything will be settle toMorrow one way or another.
The detailed plan
We will only lynch Caex toDay if he's CCed. If that happens our cop will be outed and potentially nullified, so it's better not. On the plus side we probably will lynch a scum PR. If he's not CCed, no matter how scummy he's been, it's just a high-risk low reward play to lynch him toDay.
the night
If he's town he will be killed toNight without really helping us but at least the scum will spend a NK on a weaker player. If he's scum he will not be killed toNight. Doc/vig should not target him, trackers should do whatever they want and watcher should target him.
toMorrow
If he's alive he will have "a result", and probably a guilty on someone, no matter, he needs to be lynched because he will be confirmed scum at that point.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
BTW, I don't particularly suspect WoLG. But he appears to be skating under the radar a bit and that could be very dangerous later in the game. He's posting good content but he's not receiving a lot of attention for it, which seems odd. Don't mistake my caution for suspicion.
{Magic: The RPG}
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Good point, but I never said he should be accepting his lynch. He should fight to the end, and that is independent of his alignment. Heck, I don't even want to see him lynched myself because if I'm wrong we're ****ed.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Unvote, vote DRey
Also votecount please.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
@everyone on my wagon why you are voting me? Does the explanation of everything I did not make sense and if not, why? Do you still have any question.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
So wait, you accused me of being fake with Zionite despite... not having read the walls to begin with?
At this point, you're either ludicrously overconfident or you're scum. Ugh. I need to go reread Ataghan.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I voted you because your play is outrageous. You make accusations without base, you aren't posting like a townie, you're extolling the virtues of keeping Caex alive... it's just bizarre play. Hence my worry this is somehow your town meta. Hence why I need to go look back at Ataghan.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I'm advocating vigging him only under the assumption we have a vig and thus can save ourselves the trouble of lynching him. Otherwise, I agree with you that he should be lynched right now.
Also, reading your games gives me a headache. I can't tell if arrogance is truly a town-tell for you.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
DRey (5): WellOfLostGnomes, Xyre, Caex Kothar, Stardust, Che Guevera
Caex Kothar (3): CropCircles, kpaca, Zionite
Xyre (2): Wessel, DRey
WellOfLostGnomes (1): zindabad
Not Voting (1): Cyouni
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Day One will end no later than 11:59PM, Saturday, April 27th.
I meant to respond to this a while ago, but forgot.
I suspect that new MTGS users are unable to access that forum due to a history of MTGS users using gimmick (duplicate) accounts to stir up drama there.
1)Despite currently voting Caex plus not believing his claim, Xyre both doesn't support nor expect his lynch today. How this makes one lick of sense? Why not pushing for a lynch of the very same guy you want vigged? Certainly not because he want the cop to give one result before dying, because vigged cops can't talk.
2)Xyre want Caex to reach the night, but isn't really that concerned with him living for another day.
There's not many explanations for both of these things, let run through all scenarios, considering both alignments.
Xyre is town
Xyre is not really sure Caex is scum, so he's afraid of lynching him despite not believing his claim as a cop is important. I can relate to this, because I'm in the same position, however this is impossible because Xyre is supporting the vig of the potential cop, in the end silencing him before he could come up with at least one result. Conclusion: impossible for Xyre to push for this if he was town, Xyre is not an idiot.
Xyre is scum Caex is town
Now things get interesting, if town follows Xyre's plan, he accomplishes soooo much to advance scum position is not even funny. He both: wastes the vig shot, kills and silence the cop, prevents the scum from being caught by the watcher (while also potentially incriminating the vig!), potentially free the scum NK to another target. All of this while also avoiding the responsibility of being part of the "wagon that lynched the cop". Conclusion: Huuuuge play for the scum, scum Xyre is certainly capable of having thought about this, but in the end I think it's not likely because Caex doesn't make sense as town.
Xyre is scum Caex is scum
This is what I believe the truth is. By protecting Caex from the lynch but not for the vig, he allows him a use of his hiphotetical scum power, he manages to save Caex if there's no vig (unlimited vigs are not really common on minis) potentially WIFOMing his life toMorrow and he gets town credit if Caex does end up vigged. Conclusion: Considering Caex bizarre attack on Xyre from the get go (that's called busing), Xyre's sudden late hop onto Caex from zero to a gigantic case by repeating points of players he think are scum and now both supporting his lynch but not really, I'm confident this is the truth.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Jesus Christ, for the last time. I DON'T AGREE WITH LYNCHING CAEX WITHOUT A CC. Stop misrepping me scum.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
In addition, your claim that it is "impossible" for Xyre to be town is simply untrue, and using words like "impossible" sounds like you're creating a false dilemma, trying to make it seem like he must be scum, when that just isn't the case.
Throwing suspicion on your attackers, misrepresenting them, and not claiming when you are L-2? I'd vote, but I want that claim first please.
[The Family]
- presumably if Caex and I are scum buddies, you think I'm trying to get him vigged in order to save his life, eg by doc protecting him. But if we show up tomorrow and a vig says 'I shot Caex and he didn't die,' that's going to implicate Caex and me, right? It's a stupid plan. So maybe it's not my plan, eh?
- I do have a plan, just not the one your myopia presents
- I've already explained why shooting the cop is the right play. But I'm curious - do you or don't you believe Caex's claim? You seem to be bouncing back and forth on that point.
- while you're at it, claim plz
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Quick Question: Why vig him tonight? If he is telling the truth about his role and alignment, that eliminates all possible good that could come from his ability. If we let him live another night, that could give us more possible investigations. He can't be roleblocked, so even if he comes in and clears someone as town then we have a confirmed townie. If he comes in and says he's found scum, we pursue that line of inquiry.
If he's lying about it, the real cop will be able to make an investigation into someone. Caex would then have to come into the game tomorrow, clear or condemn someone, and we could go from there. If he's scum and busses one of his scumbuddies, then a scum gets killed, if he "clears" a townie (or scum) we can worry about lynching him then.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
I still think we should be lynching Caex. I'm positive he's scum and his support for the DRey wagon makes me not want to go along with it despite my suspicions of DRey.
I can see the argument for lynching Caex and shooting DRey; I just prefer vice-versa.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Those reasons are outrageous Xyre. I already have explained the reasons of my attacks, "aren't posting like a townie" is meaningless, vague and unacceptable as a reason, because as you would say yourself "it's an accusation without base", and extolling the virtues of keeping Caex alive is the correct play here for the reasons I've provided in lengths. You is the one that haven't neither refuted my reasons with logic nor explained how vigging the cop but not lynching him makes a lick of sense. "I'm paranoid" is not a good reason.
Yes, is really untrue, I agree "impossible to be true" is never quite correct because no matter what I think there's always the possibility of me being wrong I admit this, but you are an experienced guy, have you never seen a townie with conviction before? I use strong words to strenghten my cases, I've always done this, I will always do. Can I be wrong? Yes. Do I think I'm wrong? Hell no!
There's a world of difference when scum and town discusses players CC. While afraid of clearing the mafia, townies usually are more open to notice town traits. Scum on the other hand is wary of clearing too many people or they will end up without options, because scum hate to completely backtrack reads, that's the main reason scum loves to fencesit instead of being open, they don't really want to clear anyone. Please read Caex post again and note that the way he discusses about his "townreads" is always non-commital, like he's always open to revisit them at a moments notice.
Actually you don't need to read it again, I will analyze it for you to prove I'm not trying to misrep him, I was quite correct in my assessment.
Here Caex expresses suspicion at Zion, Che and Well. No reasons provided.
The infamous "Drey is scummy but we can deal with him later" is far from a town read of me. "Stardust I'm not sure, but I say we pressure him more to see if he make him implode" is also certainly not clearing him. "Xyre is being townie atm but don't forget this terrible stuff he did early on" I admit can be considered a town read, but feels contrived. To me he's paving the way for a backtrack but doesn't really want to.
This is mostly a repeat of his previous sentence. Reminds both Xyre and Star scumdeeds but reiterates he's not sure. I can accept this is not really an attack on Xyre and Star but he's certainly not trying very hard to defend them either, the door is open for a backtrack.
In the end he completely forget he was suspicious of Well early on the post, doesn't provide any reason for his Che, Zion and Well scumreads plus suddenly insert Zion's name from nowhere.
Now CC, tell me again why do you think I'm trying to misrep Caex, because after rereading the post it gets even worse. Not only he doesn't have any townreads, but throws names from nowhere without any explanation (Che, Well, Zion), says I'm cool but vote me anyway right after noticing my wagon is real with the p.edit, and says Well is scummy at the start of the post but forgets his own read by the end of the post (Well is nowhere to be seen). This is not a genuine post, those reads are fabricated, in the end he doesn't even remember what he was talking in the very same post by the end of it.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Push for hammer
@Caex what do you think about Xyre after my cases on him?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I've already explained why I put WoLG's name in there. See post #283. I've expressed suspicion of both Zionite and Che previously. Didn't feel necessary to repeat myself.
And again, I never said we can "Deal with DRey later". Here's the exact quote again, since you apparently haven't actually read it: "DRey is scummy enough that that will sort itself out one way or another." Where do I say we can deal with you later? Nowhere, that's where. You're pushing a stupid point against me based on something that doesn't even exist.
I never said I was clearing Stardust either. I said I'm less sure about him right now. I was never trying to "clear" him or defend him, I was just explaining why I didn't put you, Xyre, or Stardust in my "people I'll investigate" answer to Wessel after I'd expressed suspicion of said people previously. Pretty much the same with Xyre, which you say could be a town tell but "feels contrived". That's about as vague as you can get.
I don't even think I have to continue to show how much bull**** DRey is shoveling.
{Magic: The RPG}
I need to reread.
If it weren't for this, I probably would have let you sit at L-2.
Consider my vote on DRey pending a claim.
8 (DRey): Well, that was quick. Definite alarm bells going off for this post.
14 (Zionite): This response rubs me the wrong way. I would’ve expected a more visceral “that post sucks” reaction from a townie.
15 (Stardust): “Can someone walk me through this?” also sets off alarm bells. Early noob card from Stardust, whose meta I’m not familiar with – but I’m sure this isn’t his first time at the rodeo.
20 (Xyre): This is “ORLYSCUM” play from Xyre. Not crazy about it. Every awful DRey post doesn’t make him auto-scum – every vote on a scummy player by kpaca doesn’t automatically mean he’s bussing. I feel like Xyre is better than this.
25 (Wessel): Good solid post here. Liking this analysis of Zionite’s weak post.
39 (Zionite): Really hating “analyzing my wagon” here. It’s the 39th post! It feels like Zionite is “playing the game.” None of his posts feel natural or like they’re coming from gut. They feel like ice sculptures.
50 (D_V): Well, that sounds like the worst idea ever.
52 (Stardust): This was also really so soft. Is Stardust always this…faux-earnest? Need to check up on this guy’s meta.
53 (Caex): Also doing little for me with this post. You don’t remember Ataghan at all?
62 (Xyre): Yes, but where’s the relation to what kpaca is actually doing in this game? It was DRey who brought the bus in Seasons in a bad overreaction to ZasZ’s bad plan. Kpaca only joined the attack once he saw how bad the two of them were making each other look. You’re reaching too hard to fit one kpaca post into a meta pattern that may not even be real.
68 (kpaca): Any chance of getting you to elaborate on just what that mindset is exactly?
(I see several people will immediately pull you up on this, which decreases the chance that you’ll answer it.)
78 (DRey): What does Caex getting vigged have to do with Zionite being lynched today?
80 (Caex): You say you’re willing to vote Stardust, but did you mention him at any point yet? I’ll get back to this.
81 (Stardust): “So stay in shape, eh?” Good Lord, I’m hating Stardust so much right now. Trying to figure out if this is just my natural reaction to a scummy-looking newer player or if real gut scum-vibes.
82 (Zionite): I agree with his assessment of Caex’s posting so far. He and Stardust are at the top of my list at the moment.
83 (Caex): That’s a specific. Not specifics. It also feels really perfunctory, like “oh I know you’ll ask me for this, so here I am, jumping through your hoop. Happy?”
87 (Che): Really fake post here. “Hydro” was especially egregious. This guy is not who he claims to be, although that means nothing for his alignment in this game.
93 (Stardust): Rightfully questions Caex’s seemingly throwaway mention of his name as a possible lynch target. Interested to see the response.
95 (Caex): Shocking response here. Tasty OMGUS from Caex – if I were voting, I’d be voting for him at this point.
98 (Stardust): Interestingly introspective post from here that gives Star town points. If I were scum in Star’s position I’d be all over Caex for his abysmal OMGUS vote – that wagon would look like a total banker. But Stardust instead chooses to mull it over – out loud, no less.
100 (Xyre): I think I see a bit of tunnel vision developing here. Zionite is still scummy but the lack of mention of other scummy players worries me a bit, although he did say it was just a “quick post.”
111 (DRey): Let he who is without sin….
112 (Wessel): Not crazy about this. Xyre is pressing the attack against Zionite, another main target of yours, but you say he’s doing nothing?
113 (Zionite): For someone who was breaking out the Latin not long ago, your use of “which was quite obvious to everyone else” is just as much an appeal to the masses as Caex’s post was not long ago. Zzz.
114 (Xyre): Not nearly as open-and-shut as Xyre tries to make it sound. I wonder what the point of that “sit down” comment was. You aren’t going to shake Zionite with posturing like that – was the plan to convince newer players like Stardust, Caex, and possibly Che with that attempt at forcefulness?
115 (Xyre): Don’t agree. Caex sounds like he’s going along to get along, especially with every word that’s come out of his mouth so far concerning Stardust. He’s scum, in my opinion, who’s learning from his Ataghan mistake re: PBPA walls (which were discussed in the postgame as a weakness of his.)
118 (Stardust): Early read on Stardust rapidly reversing. Very good review of his own post regarding Zionite and does well to keep both Xyre and Zionite honest here.
122 (Caex): Ex post facto justification here. You were already mentioning Stardust as a potential scum before he said anything about the likelihood of his committing scumslips – see your post 80. A follow-up on that – in 123, you then ask Zionite to explain why he has a town read on Stardust when you have thus far failed to explain why you have a scum read on him. Why the disconnect?
124 (Zionite): This response blows Xyre out of the water. Can’t tell if that’s down to the shoddiness of Xyre’s initial attack (which would be a logical point for a scum to turn a regular defense into a comprehensive defeat of all points such as this one – see me doing the same to Cyan in Hecatea) or because Zionite is actually town.
125 (Xyre): This is a lot better, especially the point about Zionite and the third vote by kpaca.
131-136 (kpaca/Stardust): kpaca opens with “shifty votes and contrived efforts”. After questioning by Stardust, he clarifies that DRey, Wessel, and maybe Che might be “shifty.” That leaves just Xyre for “contrived efforts.” I don’t see Wessel as shifty at all, and Xyre’s effort doesn’t feel contrived either. Not loving this.
138 (Xyre): A lot of this was unnecessary rhetorical butting of heads. The main point I took away from this post was that it reminded me of how Zionite said “but I’ll humor you just for kicks”, which reminds me of the feeble language he was using in Cyberspace.
140 (DRey): Shocking vote here and it makes me wonder how closely you’re following the back-and-forth. Xyre’s weak opening post was duly defeated by Zionite, but Xyre then bounced back with another supplemental case (way better than the first) and also attacked Zionite’s rebuttal. The pressure is definitely on Zionite here, not Xyre, so how can the latter be “imploding?”
149 (WoLG): Would like to see a little more from you – I think this post is OK, although it’s a little on the mild side. Some stronger convictions would help get a better read.
150 (CC): No mention of Zionite’s role in the PBPA war between him and Xyre – all the focus on the aggressor. Any reason for this? I also don’t like how you characterize kpaca as “active[ly] scumhunting”, cause he totally isn’t.
151 (Zionite): Happy birthday. We’ll see if this is a ploy to dodge pressure (not that it isn’t your birthday or anything, but this post read to me as pretty classic “wait until the storm passes” scum behavior.)
155 (Caex): Deflection onto kpaca. Never mind what he’s doing for a moment. Explain what you’re doing first. I wasn’t crazy about CC’s initial post 150 but about the only thing he got right there was, well, you.
168 (Zionite): Very soft response to the best point of Xyre’s case. It wasn’t a question of why you would vote or wouldn’t vote kpaca for the third vote, it’s a question of why you would use the third vote business as a stick to bludgeon CC with while hypocritically ignoring kpaca’s same offense.
171 (Caex): DRey, this is what a scum implosion looks like, down to the “more votes.”
188 (DRey): Bad post but the “pay attention to me, guys!” attitude present in this post and the “this game is boring” post preceding it doesn’t really make sense from a scum perspective. Can’t see scum DRey being so desperate for attention as long as a) he’s safe and b) a powerful scumbuddy isn’t on the chopping block, both of which are true at present.
That will do for now – made it through more than half. Consider my vote on Caex.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
OK, let’s do some damage here.
8 (DRey): Well, that was quick. Definite alarm bells going off for this post.
14 (Zionite): This response rubs me the wrong way. I would’ve expected a more visceral “that post sucks” reaction from a townie.
15 (Stardust): “Can someone walk me through this?” also sets off alarm bells. Early noob card from Stardust, whose meta I’m not familiar with – but I’m sure this isn’t his first time at the rodeo.
20 (Xyre): This is “ORLYSCUM” play from Xyre. Not crazy about it. Every awful DRey post doesn’t make him auto-scum – every vote on a scummy player by kpaca doesn’t automatically mean he’s bussing. I feel like Xyre is better than this.
25 (Wessel): Good solid post here. Liking this analysis of Zionite’s weak post.
39 (Zionite): Really hating “analyzing my wagon” here. It’s the 39th post! It feels like Zionite is “playing the game.” None of his posts feel natural or like they’re coming from gut. They feel like ice sculptures.
50 (D_V): Well, that sounds like the worst idea ever.
52 (Stardust): This was also really so soft. Is Stardust always this…faux-earnest? Need to check up on this guy’s meta.
53 (Caex): Also doing little for me with this post. You don’t remember Ataghan at all?
62 (Xyre): Yes, but where’s the relation to what kpaca is actually doing in this game? It was DRey who brought the bus in Seasons in a bad overreaction to ZasZ’s bad plan. Kpaca only joined the attack once he saw how bad the two of them were making each other look. You’re reaching too hard to fit one kpaca post into a meta pattern that may not even be real.
68 (kpaca): Any chance of getting you to elaborate on just what that mindset is exactly?
(I see several people will immediately pull you up on this, which decreases the chance that you’ll answer it.)
78 (DRey): What does Caex getting vigged have to do with Zionite being lynched today?
80 (Caex): You say you’re willing to vote Stardust, but did you mention him at any point yet? I’ll get back to this.
81 (Stardust): “So stay in shape, eh?” Good Lord, I’m hating Stardust so much right now. Trying to figure out if this is just my natural reaction to a scummy-looking newer player or if real gut scum-vibes.
82 (Zionite): I agree with his assessment of Caex’s posting so far. He and Stardust are at the top of my list at the moment.
83 (Caex): That’s a specific. Not specifics. It also feels really perfunctory, like “oh I know you’ll ask me for this, so here I am, jumping through your hoop. Happy?”
87 (Che): Really fake post here. “Hydro” was especially egregious. This guy is not who he claims to be, although that means nothing for his alignment in this game.
93 (Stardust): Rightfully questions Caex’s seemingly throwaway mention of his name as a possible lynch target. Interested to see the response.
95 (Caex): Shocking response here. Tasty OMGUS from Caex – if I were voting, I’d be voting for him at this point.
98 (Stardust): Interestingly introspective post from here that gives Star town points. If I were scum in Star’s position I’d be all over Caex for his abysmal OMGUS vote – that wagon would look like a total banker. But Stardust instead chooses to mull it over – out loud, no less.
100 (Xyre): I think I see a bit of tunnel vision developing here. Zionite is still scummy but the lack of mention of other scummy players worries me a bit, although he did say it was just a “quick post.”
111 (DRey): Let he who is without sin….
112 (Wessel): Not crazy about this. Xyre is pressing the attack against Zionite, another main target of yours, but you say he’s doing nothing?
113 (Zionite): For someone who was breaking out the Latin not long ago, your use of “which was quite obvious to everyone else” is just as much an appeal to the masses as Caex’s post was not long ago. Zzz.
114 (Xyre): Not nearly as open-and-shut as Xyre tries to make it sound. I wonder what the point of that “sit down” comment was. You aren’t going to shake Zionite with posturing like that – was the plan to convince newer players like Stardust, Caex, and possibly Che with that attempt at forcefulness?
115 (Xyre): Don’t agree. Caex sounds like he’s going along to get along, especially with every word that’s come out of his mouth so far concerning Stardust. He’s scum, in my opinion, who’s learning from his Ataghan mistake re: PBPA walls (which were discussed in the postgame as a weakness of his.)
118 (Stardust): Early read on Stardust rapidly reversing. Very good review of his own post regarding Zionite and does well to keep both Xyre and Zionite honest here.
122 (Caex): Ex post facto justification here. You were already mentioning Stardust as a potential scum before he said anything about the likelihood of his committing scumslips – see your post 80. A follow-up on that – in 123, you then ask Zionite to explain why he has a town read on Stardust when you have thus far failed to explain why you have a scum read on him. Why the disconnect?
124 (Zionite): This response blows Xyre out of the water. Can’t tell if that’s down to the shoddiness of Xyre’s initial attack (which would be a logical point for a scum to turn a regular defense into a comprehensive defeat of all points such as this one – see me doing the same to Cyan in Hecatea) or because Zionite is actually town.
125 (Xyre): This is a lot better, especially the point about Zionite and the third vote by kpaca.
131-136 (kpaca/Stardust): kpaca opens with “shifty votes and contrived efforts”. After questioning by Stardust, he clarifies that DRey, Wessel, and maybe Che might be “shifty.” That leaves just Xyre for “contrived efforts.” I don’t see Wessel as shifty at all, and Xyre’s effort doesn’t feel contrived either. Not loving this.
138 (Xyre): A lot of this was unnecessary rhetorical butting of heads. The main point I took away from this post was that it reminded me of how Zionite said “but I’ll humor you just for kicks”, which reminds me of the feeble language he was using in Cyberspace.
140 (DRey): Shocking vote here and it makes me wonder how closely you’re following the back-and-forth. Xyre’s weak opening post was duly defeated by Zionite, but Xyre then bounced back with another supplemental case (way better than the first) and also attacked Zionite’s rebuttal. The pressure is definitely on Zionite here, not Xyre, so how can the latter be “imploding?”
149 (WoLG): Would like to see a little more from you – I think this post is OK, although it’s a little on the mild side. Some stronger convictions would help get a better read.
150 (CC): No mention of Zionite’s role in the PBPA war between him and Xyre – all the focus on the aggressor. Any reason for this? I also don’t like how you characterize kpaca as “active[ly] scumhunting”, cause he totally isn’t.
151 (Zionite): Happy birthday. We’ll see if this is a ploy to dodge pressure (not that it isn’t your birthday or anything, but this post read to me as pretty classic “wait until the storm passes” scum behavior.)
155 (Caex): Deflection onto kpaca. Never mind what he’s doing for a moment. Explain what you’re doing first. I wasn’t crazy about CC’s initial post 150 but about the only thing he got right there was, well, you.
168 (Zionite): Very soft response to the best point of Xyre’s case. It wasn’t a question of why you would vote or wouldn’t vote kpaca for the third vote, it’s a question of why you would use the third vote business as a stick to bludgeon CC with while hypocritically ignoring kpaca’s same offense.
171 (Caex): DRey, this is what a scum implosion looks like, down to the “more votes.”
188 (DRey): Bad post but the “pay attention to me, guys!” attitude present in this post and the “this game is boring” post preceding it doesn’t really make sense from a scum perspective. Can’t see scum DRey being so desperate for attention as long as a) he’s safe and b) a powerful scumbuddy isn’t on the chopping block, both of which are true at present.
That will do for now – made it through more than half. Consider my vote on Caex.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Head pounding, not going to try and quote and snip anything right now.
1. Because the biggest wagon was Zionite. I said I was interested in voting Zionite.
2. Because if I came back D2 and said "Sorry guys, no result because of roleblock" there was a pretty good chance I'd be lynched. They could 2-for-1 the town by getting in a NK on a stronger player and blocking me. I was trying to get off at least one investigation before I die.
3. Because I didn't want to claim. As you said it was a contingency plan, not Plan A. I was trying to drop a hint that I had a PR.
{Magic: The RPG}
1. Circular logic.
2. Scum mindset for falseclaim.
3. Hint was too blatant for town.
2. Bull****. How does "considering the ways the game could play out and betting on one being more optimal than the others" translate into "scum mindset"?
3. Bull****. I don't even have to explain why that's bull****.
{Magic: The RPG}
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Ahhhhhhhh
I really want Caex dead. Can we either lynch him now or hurry up and lynch DRey so the vig can shoot him or give us an easy lynch choice for tomorrow
I hate the idea of lynching a claimed cop without trying to get some use out of him, but at this point, I think knowing his alignment will be the more useful info to have now, rather than waiting for potential investigations that we won't even be able to trust until he flips.
Ultimately, he is the scummier of the two. I'd rather just get it done then have it possibly still hanging over our head in the morning.
Unvote, Vote Caex
[The Family]