Ok, this stuff is important, please pay attention everyone. The chances are very high Caex is lying, so if you are the cop, please don't counterclaim him.
@Caex why did you think being the cop would make you more resistant to lynching therefore you could play scummier? Are you saying you are an unlimited cop plus you have a beneficial passive?
Not "play scummier". Play more aggressively and without a lot of regard for how I'm perceived. And yes, I do think being a cop makes me more resistant to lynching.
My passive is both beneficial and detrimental. And yes I'm unlimited.
Preview Edit: I am the real Gloin.
My flavor is a few lines about how stubborn I am and that I'm not going to let any anything or anyone distract me from the quest to retake the Lonely Mountain.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Unvote Caex for the moment, because I want to make sure I have time to go back and reread his posts before a lynch happens, but i would like to hear that passive ability. At work now, substainial post to follow.
I think I really screwed myself this game. When I saw my role PM I basically thought "Hey, I'm unlynchable!" I took it as an excuse to play faster and looser than I normally would. Which is probably why I'm now forced to claim.
I'm Gloin and I'm the cop. I also have a passive ability that I'd really rather not claim if possible.
And you never once stopped to think that playing a cop recklessly enough to claim is going to get you night killed anyway? I don't buy this mindset; something is up with this claim.
I've only taken a quick look at the last bit, and will have to read more before I comment on the rest.
First thought that comes to mind is that I've seen similar behaviour to what he claimed from a cop.
@DRey: What is your response to the points raised against you by myself and other players?
Please repeat what you want me to address again.
Can you elaborate on why you stated that the game was boring and that no one else was making the game advance?
At that point, the wagon on Caex had started, Xyre and Zionite were going back and forth, and Stardust and Wessel were specifically questioning people. Sounds to me like a lot was going on. Was that a filler post and were you
Also:
In #188 he gave some more content, but the English there is rough for me to read. It's worded oddly, and his logic is off. He says that Xyre "feigned attacks" which doesn't mesh with the actual events. Either he doesn't know what a feint is, or he's accusing Xyre of masterminding an entire hundreds-of-lines-of-text attack on a player to distract or mislead the town. He calls Xyre scum and simultaneously says that he isn't usually that "stupid as town." Which one is it, he's being stupid? Or creating a tactical diversion designed to distract or mislead? Or did he mean something else that I'm not getting?
In additon to that, do you believe that saying you "don't feel like quoting and rereading" is a pro-town mindset?
In addition, do you have a response to this post by Xyre?
I've only taken a quick look at the last bit, and will have to read more before I comment on the rest.
First thought that comes to mind is that I've seen similar behaviour to what he claimed from a cop.
Caex, I'm ready to vote for you anytime now, so a claim would be appreciated. If you claim vanilla, a list of reads with reasons would be helpful too. Thanks.
Three questions. Why were you willing to put Caex to L-1 without a claim from him? And secondly, why were you expecting a vanilla claim? And thirdly, why is a list of reads helpful only if he claims vanilla?
1) I wasn't. That's why I asked him to claim.
2) I wasn't expecting it, but vanilla is the probably the most common claim. This is only relevant with regards to the third point here.
3) The list of reads may be helpful regardless of his role, but I only wanted it immediately if I was going to go ahead and lynch him right away. If he claimed a PR (as he did) a discussion should happen before he posts his reads (no point outing who he's most likely to target, for example). If he'd claimed vanilla I would have voted for him immediately and wanted the list as something to look at going into Day 2. I may still ask for the list, but only once I'm ready to lynch.
As for the lynch, I'm feeling a little unsure about lynching an unCC'd PR Day 1, but Caex is pretty scummy... I don't think I've been in a game where scum claimed a PR yet, but I have been in a game where a town PR was lynched. Is this the best choice here? I'm really not sure. We'll see how Caex responds to the questions being asked of him. I also want to do a reread before I add my vote to really make sure we're not making a mistake here.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
@ Stardust: The reason to fear cop claims is (a) they're easy for the mafia to fake, (b) they have a chance of outing the real cop inadvertently, and (c) they scare the town because it could be they're true.
@ kpaca: Do you really have a vig shot? I could get behind vigging Caex tonight. No matter what we do, I definitely don't want the day to end before DRey responds to all the questions/accusations before him.
My passive is called Bull-Headed. I can't be roleblocked, but I also can't be protected. I'll get around to answering all the stuff aimed at me later.
So what was your strategy in playing the way you have so far?
I was hoping to draw a roleblock instead of a NK. Half the people don't believe my claim, and if I came back D2 saying "Sorry, got roleblocked N1" there's a good chance I'd be lynched.
Che pushing that hard for me to claim my passive looks suspicious, especially with his "We're lynching Caex no matter what" mindset. If he really believes I'm scum that strongly, there's no reason to care about my passive because I'd be lying anyway. I can definitely see a reason for the scum to push me to full claim, though.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
@Stardust: it matches the mindset of his other posts where I've expected he has little experience, but also doesn't sound like something scum would say. Now though, I have a hard time rectifying why the same player who said we'd regret pushing him also says that his plan was to play recklessly because he was going to claim anyway.
@Caex: There exists the possibility that your passive ability is real but the cop ability is not.
So if Caex is lying (which I believe he is), he won't be killed tonight and will be around tomorrow to lynch. If Caex is telling the truth, he'll be dead tonight anyway barring any unknown night actions.
It's a tough call, because it could be beneficial to see what happens overnight, but I still feel comfortable with this lynch. If we hit a scum today then it will put the scum team at a disadvantage right off the bat rather than playing the WIFOM game tomorrow with Caex.
@ Stardust: The reason to fear cop claims is (a) they're easy for the mafia to fake, (b) they have a chance of outing the real cop inadvertently, and (c) they scare the town because it could be they're true.
So you're telling me this because a cop claim is a common fake claim from scum, for those reasons? I suppose a doc claim shouldn't be trusted for the same reasons?
@Stardust: it matches the mindset of his other posts where I've expected he has little experience, but also doesn't sound like something scum would say. Now though, I have a hard time rectifying why the same player who said we'd regret pushing him also says that his plan was to play recklessly because he was going to claim anyway.
So... is Caex scum? Even now you're flip-flopping on your read of Caex, hedging your bets so you can say you thought he might be town the whole time, but holding up more recent actions to say he's scum. That's not gonna fly when you were third on his wagon.
You've just said that you thought Caex was town when he made that comment. If that's true, then why did you vote for him?
@Stardust: it matches the mindset of his other posts where I've expected he has little experience, but also doesn't sound like something scum would say.
Newbie mindset. Attacking hard and disregarding attacks on himself and stating the desire to behave that way flatly. But his contradictions are indicative of newbie scum, not newbie town.
My passive is called Bull-Headed. I can't be roleblocked, but I also can't be protected. I'll get around to answering all the stuff aimed at me later.
So what was your strategy in playing the way you have so far?
I was hoping to draw a roleblock instead of a NK. Half the people don't believe my claim, and if I came back D2 saying "Sorry, got roleblocked N1" there's a good chance I'd be lynched.
No, not in the way you structured your claim, I mean your play for the entire game up to that point. As others have noted, usually cops don't play so aggressively.
@ Stardust: The reason to fear cop claims is (a) they're easy for the mafia to fake, (b) they have a chance of outing the real cop inadvertently, and (c) they scare the town because it could be they're true.
So you're telling me this because a cop claim is a common fake claim from scum, for those reasons? I suppose a doc claim shouldn't be trusted for the same reasons?
Docs generally are more trustworthy for two reasons: (a) if they don't get promptly nightkilled, you can't just write that fact off to a lucky doc protection, and (b) a false-claimed doc is harder to fake and riskier.
Newbie mindset. Attacking hard and disregarding attacks on himself and stating the desire to behave that way flatly. But his contradictions are indicative of newbie scum, not newbie town.
Ah, okay. That makes slightly more sense. One last thing then: why call his comment that we would feel stupid "genuine" unless you thought we would actually be made to feel stupid?
@Caex: Why haven't you reacted to kpaca's announcement he's going to vig you this Night?
Because he's just fishing for a reaction.
Ok, good. So tell me, what's your view on kpaca's statement in regards to alignment?
Town. Trying to provoke reactions is a positive thing.
So if he's town in your eyes for making that announcement, why not react to it?
Because I don't particularly care what kpaca thinks of me.
Do you care what anyone thinks of you?
Eh. I care to the extent that I'll debunk these cases on me so we can actually scumhunt. I'm not going to try to convince people I'm town; that'll become apparent as the game goes on.
I don't feel like quoting and rereading but I want to spill the beans, so I'm gonna do it right with also my reads.
My first post was a joke, but not a total one. I really dislike D1 because I shine most at middle to endgame, by analyzing wagons and VCs(particularly of dead scum). I've passed the time where I was deluded to believe I could catch the whole scum team D1, this has never happened before and probably never will, I also don't try to do the "X is scum/town so Y is certainly scum/town", this is pointless without flips.
My vote on Zion was serious but a bit after I pressured him, he started towntelling like a madman, and I'm now confident with my read of town about him. Xyre started leaning town but after some feigned attacks (Xyre's is not that stupid as town) he's strongly in my leaning scum pile, that fact that he's not really scumhunting, as Wessel noticed (another town read) just made the vote easy. Caex is another one I have as scum, first because of his sig as Kpaca noticed(yes, that's a real point, sue me)
A)It's my avatar not sig, B)kpaca is just looking for another reaction from me, C)I changed it to its current picture the day I signed up for this game, so it's not a real point.
Quote from DRey »
second for the same reason of Xyre's, Caex is a smart guy, both as town or scum, when he starts crapping on me ("hey Xyre is acting like he's town self, this means he's scum, vote Xyre") things really get ugly.
Lrn2read. I wasn't attacking Xyre because he was using meta. I was attacking Xyre because the meta he was using was weak. As I've said like ten times before: Xyre using meta arguments is null. I'm going off the strength of the meta argument, not its presence.
Quote from DRey »
I think Caex is just doing a mistake I've done myself before as noob scum, he's trying to earn some town credit for busing a mate early ("see, I caught Xyre early") for no reason. Considering he was caught quite handily for his scumgame in Ataghan I can see he trying another approach as scum here.
???
I don't think you're remembering Ataghan properly.
My passive is called Bull-Headed. I can't be roleblocked, but I also can't be protected. I'll get around to answering all the stuff aimed at me later.
So what was your strategy in playing the way you have so far?
I was hoping to draw a roleblock instead of a NK. Half the people don't believe my claim, and if I came back D2 saying "Sorry, got roleblocked N1" there's a good chance I'd be lynched.
Che pushing that hard for me to claim my passive looks suspicious, especially with his "We're lynching Caex no matter what" mindset. If he really believes I'm scum that strongly, there's no reason to care about my passive because I'd be lying anyway. I can definitely see a reason for the scum to push me to full claim, though.
Wait your plan as cop was to draw the roleblock? Are you the worst player ever?
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Newbie mindset. Attacking hard and disregarding attacks on himself and stating the desire to behave that way flatly. But his contradictions are indicative of newbie scum, not newbie town.
Ah, okay. That makes slightly more sense. One last thing then: why call his comment that we would feel stupid "genuine" unless you thought we would actually be made to feel stupid?
It sounded like a town tell. I don't think so now knowing what the claim was.
Getting back to the matter at hand... Caex is claiming to be a Bull-Headed Cop who can't be roleblocked or protected. His plan was apparently to act scummy so he could claim and draw the roleblock...
I had a bunch of stream-of-consciousness stuff written up, but deleted it in favour of this question: Caex, if you wanted to draw the roleblock, why not just not-so-subtly put out hints that you were a PR?
Also, you seemed disappointed that you had to claim here:
I think I really screwed myself this game. When I saw my role PM I basically thought "Hey, I'm unlynchable!" I took it as an excuse to play faster and looser than I normally would. Which is probably why I'm now forced to claim.
I'm Gloin and I'm the cop. I also have a passive ability that I'd really rather not claim if possible.
My passive is called Bull-Headed. I can't be roleblocked, but I also can't be protected. I'll get around to answering all the stuff aimed at me later.
So what was your strategy in playing the way you have so far?
I was hoping to draw a roleblock instead of a NK. Half the people don't believe my claim, and if I came back D2 saying "Sorry, got roleblocked N1" there's a good chance I'd be lynched.
Che pushing that hard for me to claim my passive looks suspicious, especially with his "We're lynching Caex no matter what" mindset. If he really believes I'm scum that strongly, there's no reason to care about my passive because I'd be lying anyway. I can definitely see a reason for the scum to push me to full claim, though.
Not a big fan of the deflection there onto Che either... Why not mention Xyre in there also, who you apparently suspected earlier?
Ya'll are going to feel awfully stupid if this nonsense keeps up.
Your first sentence here feels pretty genuine if I'm right about my read on you.
Actually, Zionite, I'd like an explanation for this sentence myself, because I've read it six times now and each time it confuses me more. What read are you talking about? How does that read jive with your vote on Caex?
I voted originally because I was thinking he was scum and wanted to see more. I started prioritizing around with my reads and getting responses to solidify that (because I was also debating whether to start pushing for DRey or you). His statement had felt genuine to me and I was okay with trusting my gut on a town tell on an inexperienced player if I had better cases to go on. Those other cases are only compelling with an alignment flip though. I didn't need to unvote because the Caex case is still very good and a gut tell doesn't measure up to it. The claim is bad enough that I'm ready to end the day on Caex.
I voted originally because I was thinking he was scum and wanted to see more. I started prioritizing around with my reads and getting responses to solidify that (because I was also debating whether to start pushing for DRey or you). His statement had felt genuine to me and I was okay with trusting my gut on a town tell on an inexperienced player if I had better cases to go on. Those other cases are only compelling with an alignment flip though. I didn't need to unvote because the Caex case is still very good and a gut tell doesn't measure up to it. The claim is bad enough that I'm ready to end the day on Caex.
It's contradictory to his playstyle so far and his stated reasoning. He claims he played recklessly because he was unlynchable, but doesn't consider that a Cop claim assures you as a NK target. This is indicative of a scum mindset; they don't consider the risks of getting NKed because they control it.
Can you elaborate on why you stated that the game was boring and that no one else was making the game advance?
Well, because it was? I started right off the bat with my little gambit to hopefully rustle some feathers and that worked quite well but a bit after that the game felt stagnated and stale, this combined with the fact that three or so guys weren't playing (and still aren't) made the game unfun imho.
At that point, the wagon on Caex had started, Xyre and Zionite were going back and forth, and Stardust and Wessel were specifically questioning people. Sounds to me like a lot was going on.
I have to disagree here.
1)I was the first one to notice Caex was scummy but his wagon didn't get any traction until much later than that "boring game" comment.
2)I admit to have completely skipped both Zion and Xyre walls because players of that skill can't be caught by reason only, even if they are scum they won't be caught slipping or anything like that, walls are pointless at this point imho.
3)On the other hand I quite liked Wessel and Star genuine scumhunt, it's not a coincidence I have both as town. But I agree that was interesting at that point, in fact the only interesting thing that was happening.
In #188 he gave some more content, but the English there is rough for me to read. It's worded oddly, and his logic is off. He says that Xyre "feigned attacks" which doesn't mesh with the actual events. Either he doesn't know what a feint is, or he's accusing Xyre of masterminding an entire hundreds-of-lines-of-text attack on a player to distract or mislead the town. He calls Xyre scum and simultaneously says that he isn't usually that "stupid as town." Which one is it, he's being stupid? Or creating a tactical diversion designed to distract or mislead? Or did he mean something else that I'm not getting?
My "feigned attacks" comment was not about his walls (as I haven't even really read them) but his previous play.
Not really, I was kinda satisfied about his answers, however seeing latest developments I'm 99% he's scum (that doesn't mean we should lynch him however, I'm still thinking about the correct course of action).
I want to believe you are noob town because there's just too many scum reads for you to be scum, but this post is quite bad. If Caex do flip scum this post most likely completely clears Cy, good scum is not so brazen to openly defend a buddy on the verge of a lynch like this.
@ Stardust: The reason to fear cop claims is (a) they're easy for the mafia to fake, (b) they have a chance of outing the real cop inadvertently, and (c) they scare the town because it could be they're true.
@ kpaca: Do you really have a vig shot? I could get behind vigging Caex tonight. No matter what we do, I definitely don't want the day to end before DRey responds to all the questions/accusations before him.
How come no one has noticed this post here? This post completely proves Xyre is scum beyond any kind of doubt. In fact he has just managed a big shot for himself after I explain in more detail why he's confirmed scum (which will happen later).
I was hoping to draw a roleblock instead of a NK. Half the people don't believe my claim, and if I came back D2 saying "Sorry, got roleblocked N1" there's a good chance I'd be lynched.
Yet if you are town you just ensured you will be the NK because of this play, why haven't you considered lying about your passive? If you hadn't mentioned you couldn't be roleblocked the chances were the scum WOULD try to roleblock you while hunting for the doc.
Che pushing that hard for me to claim my passive looks suspicious, especially with his "We're lynching Caex no matter what" mindset. If he really believes I'm scum that strongly, there's no reason to care about my passive because I'd be lying anyway. I can definitely see a reason for the scum to push me to full claim, though.
I also wanted to hear your full claim because I'm suspicious of it and I'm town, so this point is bogus.
So if Caex is lying (which I believe he is), he won't be killed tonight and will be around tomorrow to lynch. If Caex is telling the truth, he'll be dead tonight anyway barring any unknown night actions.
It's a tough call, because it could be beneficial to see what happens overnight, but I still feel comfortable with this lynch. If we hit a scum today then it will put the scum team at a disadvantage right off the bat rather than playing the WIFOM game tomorrow with Caex.
You are correct that lynching scum is good, however looks like you missed that lynching the cop would be simply devastating, I do agree everything points at Caex being scum at this point but considering his claim, we will know for sure tomorrow (because scum can't roleblock him), so I can't justify lynching him.
@ Stardust: The reason to fear cop claims is (a) they're easy for the mafia to fake, (b) they have a chance of outing the real cop inadvertently, and (c) they scare the town because it could be they're true. Docs generally are more trustworthy for two reasons: (a) if they don't get promptly nightkilled, you can't just write that fact off to a lucky doc protection, and (b) a false-claimed doc is harder to fake and riskier.
How can you say that with a straight face Xyre? You are lying through your teeths.
@Star Actually the truth is that a cop claim D1 is much more believable than a doc claim because the scum can't simply shot the cop at will, they have to find and kill the doc first, and that may take some time, usually the correct choice of action for scum D1 is to claim doc to draw out the CC, this is particularly true if the scum has no more roleblockers or other ways to hold the cop while they kill the doc.
---
I've thought long and hard about this claim and I think the correct action right now is to not lynch him, I know this will reflect poorly on me if he eventually flip scum (and I do think he will) but hear me out.
1)There's no way for scum to deal with him because of his passive (that he should totally not have fully claimed if he's town :no:). This means scum hand is forced at this point, they have to kill him N1 or we will get at least one result before being taken down (if he's lynched D2). By forcing the scum hand we can even get an easy bonus scum if we have a role like a watcher.
2)By forcing the scum hand we also accomplish the side effect of protecting the rest of our PRs, if we lynch him and he does flip cop, scum will be free to hunt for the others PR, this is bad.
3)He's not being CCed (and I retract my previous post, meaning if you are the real cop, feel free to CC him as we will ensure a scum lynch toDay), so there is the chance he's the real one. Lynching unCC PR is one of the worst things a town can do. I've played in a game where the unCC cop was lynched D1 and we were royally screwed, I still have nightmares about that game.
In the end it hurts me not to lynch him toDay, but I can't justify doing that instead of waiting just one more day because if he's really lying we will know for sure tomorrow.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
It's contradictory to his playstyle so far and his stated reasoning. He claims he played recklessly because he was unlynchable, but doesn't consider that a Cop claim assures you as a NK target. This is indicative of a scum mindset; they don't consider the risks of getting NKed because they control it.
Not quite true, usually an unCC PR claim is unlynchable and for good reason, in fact that's the reason we do claims instead of always lynching the scummiest player. Sometimes a scummy player do get a PR and that works as a failsafe to prevent their lynch. As an additional point some players even play scummy on purpose as PR hoping it would prevent the scum from Nking them. As one of the most experienced here tell me Zion, have you never seen someone playing recklessly as a cop before?
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
In addition, do you have a response to this post by Xyre?
Again I was not talking about his walls, for the third time, I haven't read them, why is everyone assuming I was talking about them?
Because the majority of Xyre's attacks have been in the form of the "walls" that you aren't reading. You're not paying attention to the game, no wonder you're confused.
Not really, I was kinda satisfied about his answers, however seeing latest developments I'm 99% he's scum (that doesn't mean we should lynch him however, I'm still thinking about the correct course of action).
Cite specific examples of why you think he's scum. If you are that sure he's scum, why not lynch him? We kill scum around here if you haven't noticed.
You admit to not having a pro-town mindset and don't want to lynch someone you believe is scum.
That, along with the other issues I've stated about your play leads me to: Vote: Drey
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I want to believe you are noob town because there's just too many scum reads for you to be scum
I remember that line of argument, it's the one I used on you in Seasons before I came to my senses.
You are correct that lynching scum is good, however looks like you missed that lynching the cop would be simply devastating, I do agree everything points at Caex being scum at this point but considering his claim, we will know for sure tomorrow (because scum can't roleblock him), so I can't justify lynching him.
Except we don't know if he's telling the truth! Even if the scum let him live... for some reason... how do we know he won't come back and say, for example, "oh man guys Che Guevara is totally scum let's lynch him" to try to wring a free townie kill out of us? At this point, he's totally untrustworthy, even setting aside his dodgy-at-best play.
@ Stardust: The reason to fear cop claims is (a) they're easy for the mafia to fake, (b) they have a chance of outing the real cop inadvertently, and (c) they scare the town because it could be they're true. Docs generally are more trustworthy for two reasons: (a) if they don't get promptly nightkilled, you can't just write that fact off to a lucky doc protection, and (b) a false-claimed doc is harder to fake and riskier.
How can you say that with a straight face Xyre? You are lying through your teeths.
For your records, DRey, "teeth" is both singular and plural in English.
@Star Actually the truth is that a cop claim D1 is much more believable than a doc claim because the scum can't simply shot the cop at will, they have to find and kill the doc first, and that may take some time, usually the correct choice of action for scum D1 is to claim doc to draw out the CC, this is particularly true if the scum has no more roleblockers or other ways to hold the cop while they kill the doc.
Except the scum usually get a roleblocker anyway, so claiming just guarantees the cop will be useless. And on Day 1, it's pretty likely the scum won't be "out of roleblockers".
Speaking of which, any vigs out there (kpaca or otherwise) - please shoot Caex tonight.
I think it's pretty well clear what to make of his list of reasons not to kill Caex, so I'm going to save myself the trouble.
Will do better than that, besides the examples I will make a full case on him that will convince you he's scum.
But not now, I'm disturbed that there's 3 players that have managed to avoid doing anything so far, I want their input before I present my case.
No, it's a scum mindset. If you think it's not pro-town, why do you keep doing it?
First, being not pro-town is not equal being pro-scum, there's a world of difference here and I was never pro-scum, second I'm not keeping that behaviour, I started the game being a troll on purpose to gather reactions, and I've succeeded at that quite well imho, I'm not continuing to do that, I'm not a Seppel/Kpaca clone, I will hunt and destroy the scum if I'm left unchecked, just wait and see.
To conclude, I don't feel like reading walls because: neither Xyre or Zion will be caught pants down with this approach, walls are pro-scum, without any flip I have no idea who to trust or not, after we have some flips I will reread the game (I always do) and analyze those walls extensively.
Because the majority of Xyre's attacks have been in the form of the "walls" that you aren't reading. You're not paying attention to the game, no wonder you're confused.
I'm paying very much attention to the game, thank you very much, I'm also not confused, I'm a pretty smart guy, thank you again. You are the one confused because you assumed stuff that wasn't real(dunno if it's on purpose or not). Just because I haven't read Xyre's walls doesn't mean I don't know the content of them: he was trying to condemn Zion, who was one of my town reads.
Cite specific examples of why you think he's scum. If you are that sure he's scum, why not lynch him? We kill scum around here if you haven't noticed.
You admit to not having a pro-town mindset and don't want to lynch someone you believe is scum.
As stated I will case Xyre next. While I'm confident Caex is scum, I've been wrong before, uncountable times, so pardon me but I prefer to err on the caution side here, particularly on this high-risk low-reward scenario. If we mislynch our cop we are screwed, if we wait a little bit we potentially "lose" by not lynching scum D1, but that scum can't escape for long, he's on borrowed time anyway, there's no rushing. In fact from my experience, contrary to popular belief, when the town crushes the scum very early it gets harder for town to win, because with less potential interaction between scum it gets harder to make them trip themselves. See Seasons for a good example of this.
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On a unrelated note, I'm very troubled by the lack of participation from Zinda, CC and DVCy. I would love to hear their unbiased opinions about developments in this game so far. So if the rest of you guys could wait a bit for your commentary I would appreciate.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
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I've thought long and hard about this claim and I think the correct action right now is to not lynch him, I know this will reflect poorly on me if he eventually flip scum (and I do think he will) but hear me out.
1)There's no way for scum to deal with him because of his passive (that he should totally not have fully claimed if he's town :no:). This means scum hand is forced at this point, they have to kill him N1 or we will get at least one result before being taken down (if he's lynched D2). By forcing the scum hand we can even get an easy bonus scum if we have a role like a watcher.
2)By forcing the scum hand we also accomplish the side effect of protecting the rest of our PRs, if we lynch him and he does flip cop, scum will be free to hunt for the others PR, this is bad.
3)He's not being CCed (and I retract my previous post, meaning if you are the real cop, feel free to CC him as we will ensure a scum lynch toDay), so there is the chance he's the real one. Lynching unCC PR is one of the worst things a town can do. I've played in a game where the unCC cop was lynched D1 and we were royally screwed, I still have nightmares about that game.
In the end it hurts me not to lynch him toDay, but I can't justify doing that instead of waiting just one more day because if he's really lying we will know for sure tomorrow.
1.) I agree. I do not think we should be lynching the claimed cop D1. The language in your last sentence here reads like scum trying to get a claim or breadcrumb out from another investigative role.
2.) To me, that's a pretty obvious statement.
3.) Now you're calling for the reveal of the cop today if he's lying?!?! That's completely different logic from what you JUST STATED. Not to mention the worst scum logic I've heard so far in this game. Even if scum false claim cop, that leaves the real one to get an investigation in during N1 with a smaller chance of getting Night Killed, which leads to a possible 2 scum caught after N1, or at the very least, one scum caught and one town cleared.
You're waffling so hard right now that it's making my head hurt. You seem to be wanting to cover all of your bases so that when he flips town or scum you can come back and point out how you /had the right plan all along/. I'm very happy where my vote is.
Will do better than that, besides the examples I will make a full case on him that will convince you he's scum.
But not now, I'm disturbed that there's 3 players that have managed to avoid doing anything so far, I want their input before I present my case.
So you're saying that you're not going to defend your statements or give actual response to the points against you because other people aren't giving content?! That to me sounds like you want the people who are lurking to chime in and make points, then you can continue your spree of "Oh yeah, I agree with X, that's totally my reasons for doing this!"
First, being not pro-town is not equal being pro-scum, there's a world of difference here and I was never pro-scum, second I'm not keeping that behaviour, I started the game being a troll on purpose to gather reactions, and I've succeeded at that quite well imho, I'm not continuing to do that, I'm not a Seppel/Kpaca clone, I will hunt and destroy the scum if I'm left unchecked, just wait and see.
Wait...what? By definition not being pro-town is pro-scum. It's black and white to me. You either help us catch and kill scum, or you're on their team. The scum rely on "bad/misguided/lazy/lurky/stubborn townies" to win the games. Just wait and see? How about you start doing that now.
To conclude, I don't feel like reading walls because: neither Xyre or Zion will be caught pants down with this approach, walls are pro-scum, without any flip I have no idea who to trust or not, after we have some flips I will reread the game (I always do) and analyze those walls extensively. [/quote\
So, outside of power roles, how would anyone who is "good" at mafia ever be caught as scum then? You can't disregard their posts on that logic. Scum slip up, regardless of how good they are because they have an ulterior motive.
[QUOTE=DRey;/comments/10879603]I'm paying very much attention to the game, thank you very much, I'm also not confused, I'm a pretty smart guy, thank you again. You are the one confused because you assumed stuff that wasn't real(dunno if it's on purpose or not). Just because I haven't read Xyre's walls doesn't mean I don't know the content of them: he was trying to condemn Zion, who was one of my town reads.
I disagree. By definition you not reading something means you don't know what it said. You can have an idea by reading other peoples posts, but that gives you a really skewed view of current events. How do you know that what Zion was posting there wouldn't change your read on him? You're pretty cocky about your skills at reading scum/town WITH OUT EVER PROVIDING ANY REASONS OR VAILD LOGIC FOR BEING SO.
As stated I will case Xyre next. While I'm confident Caex is scum, I've been wrong before, uncountable times, so pardon me but I prefer to err on the caution side here, particularly on this high-risk low-reward scenario. If we mislynch our cop we are screwed, if we wait a little bit we potentially "lose" by not lynching scum D1, but that scum can't escape for long, he's on borrowed time anyway, there's no rushing. In fact from my experience, contrary to popular belief, when the town crushes the scum very early it gets harder for town to win, because with less potential interaction between scum it gets harder to make them trip themselves. See Seasons for a good example of this.
More waffling and bet hedging here.
Here's a TL;DR for you DRey since you don't like reading walls of text
By one of your own screwed up logic patterns, you're trying to call out other power roles on D1. You keep building up this "skill" you have at finding scum and reading town tells without ever providing examples. You're hedging your bets and waffling. You are promising content and not delivering, asking us to "wait and see" and you'll do things "next."
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I think I really screwed myself this game. When I saw my role PM I basically thought "Hey, I'm unlynchable!" I took it as an excuse to play faster and looser than I normally would. Which is probably why I'm now forced to claim.
I'm Gloin and I'm the cop. I also have a passive ability that I'd really rather not claim if possible.
Say the Day moves to Night now, who are you thinking about to be your target for your investigation?
Zionite, Che, or WellOfLostGnomes probably.
DRey is scummy enough that that will sort itself out one way or another. Stardust, I'm less certain about now but I'd still like him to be pressured to see how he handles it. Xyre has been solid since his terrible meta argument early on.
Quote from Wessel »
Also, you say you felt you were unlynchable - probably because you think a claim would cause you to not be lynched. So why are you saying now you screwed yourself this game because you're forced to claim? Isn't that what your hope was? To become unlynchable? Also, why was your first instinct 'Great, I'm unlynchable' and not 'Oh no I shouldn't be Nightkilled now'?
This is addressed in my response to Xyre below. But no, I wasn't hoping I would be forced to claim. But I knew if I was I was unlynchable.
As for the "Oh no I shouldn't be nightkilled now" I thought the jump in my aggression would solve that for me.
My passive is called Bull-Headed. I can't be roleblocked, but I also can't be protected. I'll get around to answering all the stuff aimed at me later.
So what was your strategy in playing the way you have so far?
I was hoping to draw a roleblock instead of a NK. Half the people don't believe my claim, and if I came back D2 saying "Sorry, got roleblocked N1" there's a good chance I'd be lynched.
No, not in the way you structured your claim, I mean your play for the entire game up to that point. As others have noted, usually cops don't play so aggressively.
Ah okay I misunderstood.
I figured I could be really aggressive because in my other games I was behaviorally-confirmed town by ~D2. I mean, I figured I'd draw a little more heat just for the aggression jump between this game and my last town games, but not to this degree. It's not that I was looking to be forced to claim, but I knew if I ever was I wouldn't be lynched and I could potentially trick the scum into RBing me instead of killing me. I tend to plan for a lot of different eventualities.
To address your "let's vig Caex" post: I wonder if we shouldn't be calling out vig targets. If the scum know I'm going to be vigged, they can NK someone more townie. I think the vig should shoot someone else and force the scum to spend their kill on me. Because they pretty much have to unless they want me to get an investigation off. If I'm somehow alive tomorrow, I'll have a result. You can then lynch me to confirm my result and go from there.
On an unrelated note: I'm less certain about Xyre (and Stardust to a lesser degree). All I really had on Xyre was his terrible meta argument from early in the game. He's not been scummy since then to any significant degree.
Stardust has been asking pretty good questions lately. I still really dislike his "I'm going to scumslip and I'm always scummy" comment but since then I haven't really seen anything that points to him being scum.
DRey and Zionite and Che seem like much better candidates right now.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
No, we vig you because we can't possibly trust you. Look at it this way - if the mafia don't shoot you, we know they think there is a vig and that that vig will cooperate, which tells us something about them. If they do shoot him, they don't think kpaca is telling the truth, which also tells us something about them.
I'm not thrilled by the possibility that nobody shoots you and we have to lynch you tomorrow, but I think it's worth taking that risk to find a good lynch today and put your death in the pocket, as it were. This is the play that best serves our long-term strategy.
Please PM me if interested.
My passive is both beneficial and detrimental. And yes I'm unlimited.
Preview Edit: I am the real Gloin.
My flavor is a few lines about how stubborn I am and that I'm not going to let any anything or anyone distract me from the quest to retake the Lonely Mountain.
{Magic: The RPG}
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Or you are scum and are trying to cover your ass and if worse comes to worse and you are counterclaimed, the scum nets the real cop.
If anyone is a cop do not counter claim at this point
[The Family]
I stated my new top 3, but it wasn't directed to you so I can understand why you missed it.
And you never once stopped to think that playing a cop recklessly enough to claim is going to get you night killed anyway? I don't buy this mindset; something is up with this claim.
First thought that comes to mind is that I've seen similar behaviour to what he claimed from a cop.
Can you elaborate on why you stated that the game was boring and that no one else was making the game advance?
At that point, the wagon on Caex had started, Xyre and Zionite were going back and forth, and Stardust and Wessel were specifically questioning people. Sounds to me like a lot was going on. Was that a filler post and were you
Also:
In additon to that, do you believe that saying you "don't feel like quoting and rereading" is a pro-town mindset?
In addition, do you have a response to this post by Xyre?
Do you have any response to Caex's post #195?
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I know who I'm questioning when Caex flips scum
I did see that. I should have been more clear. My real question was, given that you think he's scum, what's genuine about his sentence?
1) I wasn't. That's why I asked him to claim.
2) I wasn't expecting it, but vanilla is the probably the most common claim. This is only relevant with regards to the third point here.
3) The list of reads may be helpful regardless of his role, but I only wanted it immediately if I was going to go ahead and lynch him right away. If he claimed a PR (as he did) a discussion should happen before he posts his reads (no point outing who he's most likely to target, for example). If he'd claimed vanilla I would have voted for him immediately and wanted the list as something to look at going into Day 2. I may still ask for the list, but only once I'm ready to lynch.
As for the lynch, I'm feeling a little unsure about lynching an unCC'd PR Day 1, but Caex is pretty scummy... I don't think I've been in a game where scum claimed a PR yet, but I have been in a game where a town PR was lynched. Is this the best choice here? I'm really not sure. We'll see how Caex responds to the questions being asked of him. I also want to do a reread before I add my vote to really make sure we're not making a mistake here.
{Magic: The RPG}
So what was your strategy in playing the way you have so far?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
@ kpaca: Do you really have a vig shot? I could get behind vigging Caex tonight. No matter what we do, I definitely don't want the day to end before DRey responds to all the questions/accusations before him.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Che pushing that hard for me to claim my passive looks suspicious, especially with his "We're lynching Caex no matter what" mindset. If he really believes I'm scum that strongly, there's no reason to care about my passive because I'd be lying anyway. I can definitely see a reason for the scum to push me to full claim, though.
{Magic: The RPG}
@Caex: There exists the possibility that your passive ability is real but the cop ability is not.
So if Caex is lying (which I believe he is), he won't be killed tonight and will be around tomorrow to lynch. If Caex is telling the truth, he'll be dead tonight anyway barring any unknown night actions.
It's a tough call, because it could be beneficial to see what happens overnight, but I still feel comfortable with this lynch. If we hit a scum today then it will put the scum team at a disadvantage right off the bat rather than playing the WIFOM game tomorrow with Caex.
So you're telling me this because a cop claim is a common fake claim from scum, for those reasons? I suppose a doc claim shouldn't be trusted for the same reasons?
So... is Caex scum? Even now you're flip-flopping on your read of Caex, hedging your bets so you can say you thought he might be town the whole time, but holding up more recent actions to say he's scum. That's not gonna fly when you were third on his wagon.
You've just said that you thought Caex was town when he made that comment. If that's true, then why did you vote for him?
If you think I'm flip-flopping on my opinion here, read my post again. Did you see an unvote? Because I didn't.
No, not in the way you structured your claim, I mean your play for the entire game up to that point. As others have noted, usually cops don't play so aggressively.
Docs generally are more trustworthy for two reasons: (a) if they don't get promptly nightkilled, you can't just write that fact off to a lucky doc protection, and (b) a false-claimed doc is harder to fake and riskier.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Ah, okay. That makes slightly more sense. One last thing then: why call his comment that we would feel stupid "genuine" unless you thought we would actually be made to feel stupid?
Wait your plan as cop was to draw the roleblock? Are you the worst player ever?
It sounded like a town tell. I don't think so now knowing what the claim was.
"Your first sentence here feels pretty genuine..." [town]
"... if I'm right about my read on you." [scum]
Not a big fan of this apparent contradiction. If you feel I've misrep'd you, feel free to try another explanation.
Who am I voting for again? Oh good.
I had a bunch of stream-of-consciousness stuff written up, but deleted it in favour of this question: Caex, if you wanted to draw the roleblock, why not just not-so-subtly put out hints that you were a PR?
Also, you seemed disappointed that you had to claim here:
But now that's all part of the plan, here?
Not a big fan of the deflection there onto Che either... Why not mention Xyre in there also, who you apparently suspected earlier?
So you did think he was town at the time? In that case, we're back to the question of why you were voting for him.
Sorry, it's hard for me to keep up when your story keeps changing...
Actually, Zionite, I'd like an explanation for this sentence myself, because I've read it six times now and each time it confuses me more. What read are you talking about? How does that read jive with your vote on Caex?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Okay. Specifically what about the claim is bad?
I have to disagree here.
1)I was the first one to notice Caex was scummy but his wagon didn't get any traction until much later than that "boring game" comment.
2)I admit to have completely skipped both Zion and Xyre walls because players of that skill can't be caught by reason only, even if they are scum they won't be caught slipping or anything like that, walls are pointless at this point imho.
3)On the other hand I quite liked Wessel and Star genuine scumhunt, it's not a coincidence I have both as town. But I agree that was interesting at that point, in fact the only interesting thing that was happening.
My "feigned attacks" comment was not about his walls (as I haven't even really read them) but his previous play.
No. Do you think it is?
Again I was not talking about his walls, for the third time, I haven't read them, why is everyone assuming I was talking about them?
Not really, I was kinda satisfied about his answers, however seeing latest developments I'm 99% he's scum (that doesn't mean we should lynch him however, I'm still thinking about the correct course of action).
I want to believe you are noob town because there's just too many scum reads for you to be scum, but this post is quite bad. If Caex do flip scum this post most likely completely clears Cy, good scum is not so brazen to openly defend a buddy on the verge of a lynch like this.
How come no one has noticed this post here? This post completely proves Xyre is scum beyond any kind of doubt. In fact he has just managed a big shot for himself after I explain in more detail why he's confirmed scum (which will happen later).
Yet if you are town you just ensured you will be the NK because of this play, why haven't you considered lying about your passive? If you hadn't mentioned you couldn't be roleblocked the chances were the scum WOULD try to roleblock you while hunting for the doc.
I also wanted to hear your full claim because I'm suspicious of it and I'm town, so this point is bogus.
What is this about? I don't even.
You are correct that lynching scum is good, however looks like you missed that lynching the cop would be simply devastating, I do agree everything points at Caex being scum at this point but considering his claim, we will know for sure tomorrow (because scum can't roleblock him), so I can't justify lynching him.
How can you say that with a straight face Xyre? You are lying through your teeths.
@Star Actually the truth is that a cop claim D1 is much more believable than a doc claim because the scum can't simply shot the cop at will, they have to find and kill the doc first, and that may take some time, usually the correct choice of action for scum D1 is to claim doc to draw out the CC, this is particularly true if the scum has no more roleblockers or other ways to hold the cop while they kill the doc.
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I've thought long and hard about this claim and I think the correct action right now is to not lynch him, I know this will reflect poorly on me if he eventually flip scum (and I do think he will) but hear me out.
1)There's no way for scum to deal with him because of his passive (that he should totally not have fully claimed if he's town :no:). This means scum hand is forced at this point, they have to kill him N1 or we will get at least one result before being taken down (if he's lynched D2). By forcing the scum hand we can even get an easy bonus scum if we have a role like a watcher.
2)By forcing the scum hand we also accomplish the side effect of protecting the rest of our PRs, if we lynch him and he does flip cop, scum will be free to hunt for the others PR, this is bad.
3)He's not being CCed (and I retract my previous post, meaning if you are the real cop, feel free to CC him as we will ensure a scum lynch toDay), so there is the chance he's the real one. Lynching unCC PR is one of the worst things a town can do. I've played in a game where the unCC cop was lynched D1 and we were royally screwed, I still have nightmares about that game.
In the end it hurts me not to lynch him toDay, but I can't justify doing that instead of waiting just one more day because if he's really lying we will know for sure tomorrow.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Cite specific examples.
No, it's a scum mindset. If you think it's not pro-town, why do you keep doing it?
Because the majority of Xyre's attacks have been in the form of the "walls" that you aren't reading. You're not paying attention to the game, no wonder you're confused.
Cite specific examples of why you think he's scum. If you are that sure he's scum, why not lynch him? We kill scum around here if you haven't noticed.
You admit to not having a pro-town mindset and don't want to lynch someone you believe is scum.
That, along with the other issues I've stated about your play leads me to: Vote: Drey
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An "I'm rubber, you're glue" mentality isn't usually townie, either.
Are... I... what the ****?
I remember that line of argument, it's the one I used on you in Seasons before I came to my senses.
Except we don't know if he's telling the truth! Even if the scum let him live... for some reason... how do we know he won't come back and say, for example, "oh man guys Che Guevara is totally scum let's lynch him" to try to wring a free townie kill out of us? At this point, he's totally untrustworthy, even setting aside his dodgy-at-best play.
For your records, DRey, "teeth" is both singular and plural in English.
Except the scum usually get a roleblocker anyway, so claiming just guarantees the cop will be useless. And on Day 1, it's pretty likely the scum won't be "out of roleblockers".
Speaking of which, any vigs out there (kpaca or otherwise) - please shoot Caex tonight.
I think it's pretty well clear what to make of his list of reasons not to kill Caex, so I'm going to save myself the trouble.
Hey, DRey, respond to this. BE SPECIFIC.
As for your stuff...
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
But not now, I'm disturbed that there's 3 players that have managed to avoid doing anything so far, I want their input before I present my case.
First, being not pro-town is not equal being pro-scum, there's a world of difference here and I was never pro-scum, second I'm not keeping that behaviour, I started the game being a troll on purpose to gather reactions, and I've succeeded at that quite well imho, I'm not continuing to do that, I'm not a Seppel/Kpaca clone, I will hunt and destroy the scum if I'm left unchecked, just wait and see.
To conclude, I don't feel like reading walls because: neither Xyre or Zion will be caught pants down with this approach, walls are pro-scum, without any flip I have no idea who to trust or not, after we have some flips I will reread the game (I always do) and analyze those walls extensively.
I'm paying very much attention to the game, thank you very much, I'm also not confused, I'm a pretty smart guy, thank you again. You are the one confused because you assumed stuff that wasn't real(dunno if it's on purpose or not). Just because I haven't read Xyre's walls doesn't mean I don't know the content of them: he was trying to condemn Zion, who was one of my town reads.
As stated I will case Xyre next. While I'm confident Caex is scum, I've been wrong before, uncountable times, so pardon me but I prefer to err on the caution side here, particularly on this high-risk low-reward scenario. If we mislynch our cop we are screwed, if we wait a little bit we potentially "lose" by not lynching scum D1, but that scum can't escape for long, he's on borrowed time anyway, there's no rushing. In fact from my experience, contrary to popular belief, when the town crushes the scum very early it gets harder for town to win, because with less potential interaction between scum it gets harder to make them trip themselves. See Seasons for a good example of this.
---
On a unrelated note, I'm very troubled by the lack of participation from Zinda, CC and
DVCy. I would love to hear their unbiased opinions about developments in this game so far. So if the rest of you guys could wait a bit for your commentary I would appreciate.Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
1.) I agree. I do not think we should be lynching the claimed cop D1. The language in your last sentence here reads like scum trying to get a claim or breadcrumb out from another investigative role.
2.) To me, that's a pretty obvious statement.
3.) Now you're calling for the reveal of the cop today if he's lying?!?! That's completely different logic from what you JUST STATED. Not to mention the worst scum logic I've heard so far in this game. Even if scum false claim cop, that leaves the real one to get an investigation in during N1 with a smaller chance of getting Night Killed, which leads to a possible 2 scum caught after N1, or at the very least, one scum caught and one town cleared.
You're waffling so hard right now that it's making my head hurt. You seem to be wanting to cover all of your bases so that when he flips town or scum you can come back and point out how you /had the right plan all along/. I'm very happy where my vote is.
So you're saying that you're not going to defend your statements or give actual response to the points against you because other people aren't giving content?! That to me sounds like you want the people who are lurking to chime in and make points, then you can continue your spree of "Oh yeah, I agree with X, that's totally my reasons for doing this!"
Wait...what? By definition not being pro-town is pro-scum. It's black and white to me. You either help us catch and kill scum, or you're on their team. The scum rely on "bad/misguided/lazy/lurky/stubborn townies" to win the games. Just wait and see? How about you start doing that now.
I disagree. By definition you not reading something means you don't know what it said. You can have an idea by reading other peoples posts, but that gives you a really skewed view of current events. How do you know that what Zion was posting there wouldn't change your read on him? You're pretty cocky about your skills at reading scum/town WITH OUT EVER PROVIDING ANY REASONS OR VAILD LOGIC FOR BEING SO.
More waffling and bet hedging here.
Here's a TL;DR for you DRey since you don't like reading walls of text
By one of your own screwed up logic patterns, you're trying to call out other power roles on D1. You keep building up this "skill" you have at finding scum and reading town tells without ever providing examples. You're hedging your bets and waffling. You are promising content and not delivering, asking us to "wait and see" and you'll do things "next."
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
DRey is scummy enough that that will sort itself out one way or another. Stardust, I'm less certain about now but I'd still like him to be pressured to see how he handles it. Xyre has been solid since his terrible meta argument early on.
This is addressed in my response to Xyre below. But no, I wasn't hoping I would be forced to claim. But I knew if I was I was unlynchable.
As for the "Oh no I shouldn't be nightkilled now" I thought the jump in my aggression would solve that for me.
Ah okay I misunderstood.
I figured I could be really aggressive because in my other games I was behaviorally-confirmed town by ~D2. I mean, I figured I'd draw a little more heat just for the aggression jump between this game and my last town games, but not to this degree. It's not that I was looking to be forced to claim, but I knew if I ever was I wouldn't be lynched and I could potentially trick the scum into RBing me instead of killing me. I tend to plan for a lot of different eventualities.
To address your "let's vig Caex" post: I wonder if we shouldn't be calling out vig targets. If the scum know I'm going to be vigged, they can NK someone more townie. I think the vig should shoot someone else and force the scum to spend their kill on me. Because they pretty much have to unless they want me to get an investigation off. If I'm somehow alive tomorrow, I'll have a result. You can then lynch me to confirm my result and go from there.
On an unrelated note: I'm less certain about Xyre (and Stardust to a lesser degree). All I really had on Xyre was his terrible meta argument from early in the game. He's not been scummy since then to any significant degree.
Stardust has been asking pretty good questions lately. I still really dislike his "I'm going to scumslip and I'm always scummy" comment but since then I haven't really seen anything that points to him being scum.
DRey and Zionite and Che seem like much better candidates right now.
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{Magic: The RPG}
I'm not thrilled by the possibility that nobody shoots you and we have to lynch you tomorrow, but I think it's worth taking that risk to find a good lynch today and put your death in the pocket, as it were. This is the play that best serves our long-term strategy.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia