What does the "whatever" mean in the post where you vote me?
It means I'm giving in and going with Seppel.
You have a repeatable daykill and there's another vig in the game. So I'm saying screw it, Seppel seems pretty sure and he also seems bored enough to probably be town, maybe you are an SK.
This game has a secret autowin button anyway so long as we lynch one more scum.
@Stardust: Why CAN'T Tom be the SK? You haven't actually expressed this, other than your belief that it wouldn't be balanced. Do you have any other reasons why he couldn't be?
@Stardust: Why CAN'T Tom be the SK? You haven't actually expressed this, other than your belief that it wouldn't be balanced. Do you have any other reasons why he couldn't be?
Well, no, but c'mon. A SK with multiple daykills and nightkills (well, at least 1 nightkill) in a 14 player game? We know there's a three man mafia. If the town is powered up enough to compensate for that, we're going to have the swingiest game ever.
I'm not at all discounting Tom as possible scum. His role is generally seen on townies, but he hasn't been doing anything so far today and did nothing yesterday that really made me believe he's town. But why should we lynch him anyway? If he's killing who the town wants, that's a good thing. The reason I distrust Seppel on this is his insistance that Tom's the neutral and the insistance that we lynch him immediately. I can't see that coming from a townie.
There are other reasons for the distrust in general, though.
* The scummy wording "odd" in reference to W_G and myself (still unexplained)
* Attacking me simply for entertaining the idea that he's scum
* The flip-flopping on people throughout the game without explanation (Tom, Guardman, myself)
* Standing by as a townie gets lynched Day 1, despite apparently having evidence of his innocence.
* Starting the neutral hunting early - lots of attention on it Day 1 even
* Guardman never giving his thoughts on Seppel, even when following him onto wagons or when it seemed apparent that he was bothered by Seppel's actions
* The overabundance of spam. Meta, but I've looked into Seppel in the past and I definitely noticed an increase in useless spam in his scum games vs. his town games.
So there you go. Quick and dirty case on Seppel for ya.
* Guardman never giving his thoughts on Seppel, even when following him onto wagons or when it seemed apparent that he was bothered by Seppel's actions
And what did you learn about the people he followed?
* The overabundance of spam. Meta, but I've looked into Seppel in the past and I definitely noticed an increase in useless spam in his scum games vs. his town games.
It's like you're persecuting me for solving the game.
Stardust's case on Seppel shows that Stardust and Seppel cannot be on the same team. With the twisting that Stardust did to get his case on Seppel shows that Stardust is more likely to be scum than Seppel. Egro, I am going to go with Seppel and lynch Tom because of Tom being the Neutral in this game.
Once Tom is lynched, whoever the Vig may be, should shoot Stardust toNight and depending on Stardust's flip is where we go from there. If Stardust flips scum, then Seppel is confirmed Town. If Stardust flips Town, then Seppel is scum.
* The scummy wording "odd" in reference to W_G and myself (still unexplained)
I can't characterize it as scummy or townie. Ergo, it's odd. If you'd like to prove otherwise, be my guest. You certainly haven't tried to do it yet.
Why even point it out then? If you can't flip that particular tell one way or the other, why not default to other reads instead of just calling us both neutral based on that one thing?
* Guardman never giving his thoughts on Seppel, even when following him onto wagons or when it seemed apparent that he was bothered by Seppel's actions
And what did you learn about the people he followed?
* The overabundance of spam. Meta, but I've looked into Seppel in the past and I definitely noticed an increase in useless spam in his scum games vs. his town games.
It's like you're persecuting me for solving the game.
You're not on your own scum list, so...
I doubt you have it solved. If you are town, maybe you've got the scum team. Those leads you've got listed aren't bad, but Tom is not the SK. How about this: why are you gunning for Tom instead of someone on your scum list?
So there you go. Quick and dirty case on Seppel for ya.
Vote Tom you chucklehead.
Not today.
Okay, Seppel, try the post below again and maybe we can get somewhere. Until you can give me a logical reason to believe Tom is the SK and somehow not responsible for Guardman's kill last night, I'm going to believe you're being intentionally deceptive.
Okay, Seppel, try the post below again and maybe we can get somewhere. Until you can give me a logical reason to believe Tom is the SK and somehow not responsible for Guardman's kill last night, I'm going to believe you're being intentionally deceptive.
My eyes were largely glazing over until I saw this.
Tom being an SK that's capable of kills during both phases is impossible, but Tom being a town vig that's capable of kills during both phases is fine / what you believe? There's something very, very wrong with this.
Void, don't be stupid. If you believe I'm scum, vote me. Tom should not be your target today - he's going to help us.
You throw mud at me, overreact and defend Tom in the same post. What are you trying to accomplish here?
While I do believe you to be scum I believe Tom to be the Neutral more so. I thought I explained this well enough in my post to Rhand. In that post, while it is not directly stated, I gave reason on why I didn't want to lynch you toDay.
Just relax Stardust. Come Tomorrow, a lot of this game will be solved one way or another. If you are Town, then your death will be bring the death of scum Seppel.
Just relax Stardust. Come Tomorrow, a lot of this game will be solved one way or another. If you are Town, then your death will be bring the death of scum Seppel.
Tom being an SK that's capable of kills during both phases is impossible, but Tom being a town vig that's capable of kills during both phases is fine / what you believe? There's something very, very wrong with this.
No. Someone else was responsible for Guardman's death, not Tom, not Asenion. Based on the kill scene, it was the Enchantress. That means Tom is not the Enchantress. I believe he is a dayvig, nothing more.
If you believe he's scum, then I can at least see where you're coming from. But you can't believe he's neutral. It's impossible.
Void, it's a good thing you're town because there is a lot wrong with that post. I wasn't mudslinging at all - you being stupid has no bearing on your alignment. You can kill me if you want to, but it won't mean Seppel's scum. It means you'll have a dead townie who thought Seppel was scum.
What I don't want is to be that dead townie right after Seppel convinces us to lynch a powerful town PR (Tom).
How about this: Void, in your own words, describe to me what Tom has done as the SK. Specifically, what actions did he take last night?
Oh wait. Does a hunter only gets his shot off if he's lynched?
Hm.
I don't think we actually have any idea what Asenion's role did.
@Stardust: my apologies -- I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that Tom WAS responsible for Guardman's death, which is why I was like wtf.
I'm not saying that Tom being SK is more likely than Tom being Scum. All I'm saying is that I don't think that ruling out the possibility of Tom being SK is wise. For all we know, he could be some weird role that is like a werewolf and has a different Day form, but then becomes the Enchantress at Night. Who knows? Going by behaviorial tells and analytics, Tom is very likely to be anti-town. Whether he's scum or SK is frankly irrelevant. I just think that you're being unnecessarily close-minded here, that's all.
I'm not saying that Tom being SK is more likely than Tom being Scum. All I'm saying is that I don't think that ruling out the possibility of Tom being SK is wise. For all we know, he could be some weird role that is like a werewolf and has a different Day form, but then becomes the Enchantress at Night. Who knows? Going by behaviorial tells and analytics, Tom is very likely to be anti-town. Whether he's scum or SK is frankly irrelevant. I just think that you're being unnecessarily close-minded here, that's all.
Okay, I've given some thought to this, and even to the possibility of a two mafia setup (Tom's not the Enchantress, but is the second of a two person mafia - part of the Enchantress's army, though unnamed, so maybe unlikely considering all the others were). I ran the numbers, and with what little we know of the town's power so far (and some assumptions on my part that I won't talk about now), maybe you're right that it could be balanced. The town would stand a reasonable chance of making it beyond Day 3, even with all town deaths. I still don't think it's very likely, but I will keep this in mind as a possibility. You're right that I was being too close-minded, especially considering the nature of this game.
But why lynch Tom? The fact that he has a daykill makes him very useful to the town, regardless of his alignment. I don't understand why we're stringing him up instead of hunting for scum and getting him to shoot them.
What the **** are you all talking about. We're not lynching someone who MAY be the SK instead of lynching scum. As long as he's vigging the people we're lynching (and btw we are in total control of that), he lives. He's giving us two lynches per day, FFS. Scum should be worried about him, not us.
Wanna lynch Tom? Cop him and return us a non-town result the Day before lylo. Until that happens, he's not on the table.
Tom, would you kindly shoot Stardust? Pretty please?
I ran the numbers, and with what little we know of the town's power so far (and some assumptions on my part that I won't talk about now), maybe you're right that it could be balanced.
Unvote, vote Stardust.
Tom may not be the SK, but you're irrefutably scum.
How about this: Void, in your own words, describe to me what Tom has done as the SK. Specifically, what actions did he take last night?
Why does an SK have to take a Night Action?
So far all Tom has done is blow up someone who was acting scummy as Town. It gave him the perfect chance to get away with it at the time. After the Day Kill I have not seen Tom do anything that would be considered constructive for the Town.
Looking through Tom’s posts he is everywhere in this game. After the Day Kill he came after me and assisted in getting me run up to L-2 to claim. During this time Tom tried to discredit any natural reaction may have come from a post of mine.
After my claim Tom says there is no way to test my ability, but then backpedals on that thought claiming he didn’t think it through.
Shortly afterwards Tom starts attacking jonpike1, low hanging fruit, for his scuminess that more likely comes from jonpike1 being a newb. He continued to attack Macius when Macius was a non issue. Then attacked StormBlind for giving KosaKosa an answer.
The next few posts by Tom are nothing more than The question about his self-awareness did nothing to progress to the game. The comment attached to it “Good luck with that” is nothing more than flinging mud.
Then Tom decides to drop his vote on StormBlind with no reason. Since the only reason prior to this was StormBlind giving an answer to KosaKosa we know that is the reason.
Following that post Tom claims that he has been busy, but was still rereading the game. Tom contradicts this, in the same post, when asks for the case on TMCT and Asenion. Tom had not made mention of Asenion prior. Looks like Tom was trying to find a way to either start or jump onto the wagon.
Next post Tom says that StormBlind is a better lynch than Macius, but did nothing in between to show how.
Very next post Tom votes Macius and does not include StormBlind on his list of scum suspects/team. I thought that StormBlind was the better lynch.
Next post Tom says that he against Day Killing StormBlind. So much for StormBlind being a better lynch than Macius, his current vote.
The rest of Tom’s posts are a combination of active lurking while attempting to slap Wheaties for voting him.
Tom is anti-town or scum. More likely anti-town than scum because of how he used his Day Kill.
They don't, but that's my point. I guess I'm flavourgaming a lot so far today, but I believe the Enchantress killed Guardman. I also believe the Enchantress would be our third faction. Unless you believe Tom is capable of both daykills and nightkills, he can't be the Enchantress. If he can't be the Enchantress, he can't be the SK.
I've since softened somewhat on that stance, but that's still what I believe to be true.
It means I'm giving in and going with Seppel.
You have a repeatable daykill and there's another vig in the game. So I'm saying screw it, Seppel seems pretty sure and he also seems bored enough to probably be town, maybe you are an SK.
This game has a secret autowin button anyway so long as we lynch one more scum.
It was probably Asenion bro.
Seppel's right, you sound fake.
also YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO. YOU'RE A CHUCKLEHEAD.
No no, you sound fake... bro.
You're all chuckleheads.
Arrrr.
* Seppel blares a foghorn.
* Arianrhod falls out of a tree.
@Stardust: Why CAN'T Tom be the SK? You haven't actually expressed this, other than your belief that it wouldn't be balanced. Do you have any other reasons why he couldn't be?
Yup.
Tom is only L-3, let's get a move on.
Disagree!
Well, no, but c'mon. A SK with multiple daykills and nightkills (well, at least 1 nightkill) in a 14 player game? We know there's a three man mafia. If the town is powered up enough to compensate for that, we're going to have the swingiest game ever.
I'm not at all discounting Tom as possible scum. His role is generally seen on townies, but he hasn't been doing anything so far today and did nothing yesterday that really made me believe he's town. But why should we lynch him anyway? If he's killing who the town wants, that's a good thing. The reason I distrust Seppel on this is his insistance that Tom's the neutral and the insistance that we lynch him immediately. I can't see that coming from a townie.
There are other reasons for the distrust in general, though.
* The scummy wording "odd" in reference to W_G and myself (still unexplained)
* Attacking me simply for entertaining the idea that he's scum
* The flip-flopping on people throughout the game without explanation (Tom, Guardman, myself)
* Standing by as a townie gets lynched Day 1, despite apparently having evidence of his innocence.
* Starting the neutral hunting early - lots of attention on it Day 1 even
* Guardman never giving his thoughts on Seppel, even when following him onto wagons or when it seemed apparent that he was bothered by Seppel's actions
* The overabundance of spam. Meta, but I've looked into Seppel in the past and I definitely noticed an increase in useless spam in his scum games vs. his town games.
So there you go. Quick and dirty case on Seppel for ya.
Best argument so far.
I like Stardust's case better though.
Vote Seppel
If Seppel doesn't start explaining his reads, he's only a distraction, which is anti-town.
Wrong.
How?
He killed swishh, who was obviously town.
I can't characterize it as scummy or townie. Ergo, it's odd. If you'd like to prove otherwise, be my guest. You certainly haven't tried to do it yet.
Did you even reread D1?
I haven't flipped at all on Tom.
I explained my flip on Guardman.
I've never thought you were anything greater than "likely town."
We can talk about this postgame.
OP says they're 3 factions.
And what did you learn about the people he followed?
It's like you're persecuting me for solving the game.
Vote Tom you chucklehead.
Unvote: Seppel
Vote: Tom
You completely lost me now
Once Tom is lynched, whoever the Vig may be, should shoot Stardust toNight and depending on Stardust's flip is where we go from there. If Stardust flips scum, then Seppel is confirmed Town. If Stardust flips Town, then Seppel is scum.
Razor points to Seppel being Town.
Lich + Knight + Lucian
There are quite a few people who would have disagreed with you at that point.
Why even point it out then? If you can't flip that particular tell one way or the other, why not default to other reads instead of just calling us both neutral based on that one thing?
I haven't had the chance yet to reread the entire thing. I did reread all of Guardman's posts, and those surrounding them for context.
Ah yes, so you did. If it was as simple as saying "town meta" why not bring it up earlier instead of just stating it as fact?
You repeated it a couple times, actually.
We could talk about it now too.
Yep. So we know there's a neutral. That's fine. Why start hunting them so early?
Whatever. Scum can follow scum too.
You're not on your own scum list, so...
I doubt you have it solved. If you are town, maybe you've got the scum team. Those leads you've got listed aren't bad, but Tom is not the SK. How about this: why are you gunning for Tom instead of someone on your scum list?
Not today.
Okay, Seppel, try the post below again and maybe we can get somewhere. Until you can give me a logical reason to believe Tom is the SK and somehow not responsible for Guardman's kill last night, I'm going to believe you're being intentionally deceptive.
My eyes were largely glazing over until I saw this.
Tom being an SK that's capable of kills during both phases is impossible, but Tom being a town vig that's capable of kills during both phases is fine / what you believe? There's something very, very wrong with this.
You throw mud at me, overreact and defend Tom in the same post. What are you trying to accomplish here?
While I do believe you to be scum I believe Tom to be the Neutral more so. I thought I explained this well enough in my post to Rhand. In that post, while it is not directly stated, I gave reason on why I didn't want to lynch you toDay.
Just relax Stardust. Come Tomorrow, a lot of this game will be solved one way or another. If you are Town, then your death will be bring the death of scum Seppel.
That's nonsense. This isn't a dichotomy.
No. Someone else was responsible for Guardman's death, not Tom, not Asenion. Based on the kill scene, it was the Enchantress. That means Tom is not the Enchantress. I believe he is a dayvig, nothing more.
If you believe he's scum, then I can at least see where you're coming from. But you can't believe he's neutral. It's impossible.
Void, it's a good thing you're town because there is a lot wrong with that post. I wasn't mudslinging at all - you being stupid has no bearing on your alignment. You can kill me if you want to, but it won't mean Seppel's scum. It means you'll have a dead townie who thought Seppel was scum.
What I don't want is to be that dead townie right after Seppel convinces us to lynch a powerful town PR (Tom).
How about this: Void, in your own words, describe to me what Tom has done as the SK. Specifically, what actions did he take last night?
Fine, how do you explain the fact that two people died last night?
Hm.
I don't know what he did, but I do know what he didn't do. You seem to agree that Tom didn't kill Guardman. Yet you still insist he's the Enchantress.
I don't think we actually have any idea what Asenion's role did.
@Stardust: my apologies -- I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that Tom WAS responsible for Guardman's death, which is why I was like wtf.
I'm not saying that Tom being SK is more likely than Tom being Scum. All I'm saying is that I don't think that ruling out the possibility of Tom being SK is wise. For all we know, he could be some weird role that is like a werewolf and has a different Day form, but then becomes the Enchantress at Night. Who knows? Going by behaviorial tells and analytics, Tom is very likely to be anti-town. Whether he's scum or SK is frankly irrelevant. I just think that you're being unnecessarily close-minded here, that's all.
Are you serious? Seppel, please read the first half of this post, then answer the following question: Did the Enchantress kill Guardman? Y/N.
Okay, I've given some thought to this, and even to the possibility of a two mafia setup (Tom's not the Enchantress, but is the second of a two person mafia - part of the Enchantress's army, though unnamed, so maybe unlikely considering all the others were). I ran the numbers, and with what little we know of the town's power so far (and some assumptions on my part that I won't talk about now), maybe you're right that it could be balanced. The town would stand a reasonable chance of making it beyond Day 3, even with all town deaths. I still don't think it's very likely, but I will keep this in mind as a possibility. You're right that I was being too close-minded, especially considering the nature of this game.
But why lynch Tom? The fact that he has a daykill makes him very useful to the town, regardless of his alignment. I don't understand why we're stringing him up instead of hunting for scum and getting him to shoot them.
Wanna lynch Tom? Cop him and return us a non-town result the Day before lylo. Until that happens, he's not on the table.
Tom, would you kindly shoot Stardust? Pretty please?
Unvote, vote Stardust.
Tom may not be the SK, but you're irrefutably scum.
Oh. That makes much more sense.
Why does an SK have to take a Night Action?
So far all Tom has done is blow up someone who was acting scummy as Town. It gave him the perfect chance to get away with it at the time. After the Day Kill I have not seen Tom do anything that would be considered constructive for the Town.
Looking through Tom’s posts he is everywhere in this game. After the Day Kill he came after me and assisted in getting me run up to L-2 to claim. During this time Tom tried to discredit any natural reaction may have come from a post of mine.
After my claim Tom says there is no way to test my ability, but then backpedals on that thought claiming he didn’t think it through.
Shortly afterwards Tom starts attacking jonpike1, low hanging fruit, for his scuminess that more likely comes from jonpike1 being a newb. He continued to attack Macius when Macius was a non issue. Then attacked StormBlind for giving KosaKosa an answer.
The next few posts by Tom are nothing more than The question about his self-awareness did nothing to progress to the game. The comment attached to it “Good luck with that” is nothing more than flinging mud.
Then Tom decides to drop his vote on StormBlind with no reason. Since the only reason prior to this was StormBlind giving an answer to KosaKosa we know that is the reason.
Following that post Tom claims that he has been busy, but was still rereading the game. Tom contradicts this, in the same post, when asks for the case on TMCT and Asenion. Tom had not made mention of Asenion prior. Looks like Tom was trying to find a way to either start or jump onto the wagon.
Next post Tom says that StormBlind is a better lynch than Macius, but did nothing in between to show how.
Very next post Tom votes Macius and does not include StormBlind on his list of scum suspects/team. I thought that StormBlind was the better lynch.
Next post Tom says that he against Day Killing StormBlind. So much for StormBlind being a better lynch than Macius, his current vote.
The rest of Tom’s posts are a combination of active lurking while attempting to slap Wheaties for voting him.
Tom is anti-town or scum. More likely anti-town than scum because of how he used his Day Kill.
They don't, but that's my point. I guess I'm flavourgaming a lot so far today, but I believe the Enchantress killed Guardman. I also believe the Enchantress would be our third faction. Unless you believe Tom is capable of both daykills and nightkills, he can't be the Enchantress. If he can't be the Enchantress, he can't be the SK.
I've since softened somewhat on that stance, but that's still what I believe to be true.
You don't think a scum daykiller would have taken advantage of that?
Also, since he's a daykiller, why lynch him now rather than after he refuses to do what we tell him?
****ing shoot stardust
Fixed
Catching up, will post something soon. (It *IS* however my birthday today, so things may get delayed due to various reasons)
You couldn't have. I've barely posted in the past 2-3 weeks; so you're blowing smoke out of your rectum