The fact that Mr. Santorum jumps to the conclusion that Anak is talking about Day Chat without any sort of reference to when the scum can talk is a jump in logic. The catch of the slip without a vote doesn't mesh up together. Based on this posting from Mr. Santorum and the lack of voting I would believe him to be a good candidate (no pun intended :laugh:) of being a scum buddy to Anak.
Based on Tom's post I would believe Tom to be a good candidate for Town as the vote is rather... lacking and follows the misguided logic that Anak slipped about Day Chat when it was simply a slip about another chat out side of this forum. Something I believe town would be more likely to do in a situation like so.
As for the chat outside the forum comment from Anak: The comment doesn't necessarily mean that Anak is scum. He could be referring to a different type of chat related to this game (EG: Mason), but just because Anak could be a Mason doesn't mean that Anak would be a Town Mason. More pressure is needed here as this is becoming a stronger lead than others.
I dislike the fact that you are defending Anak instead of waiting for Anak to defend himself. I also dislike the fact that you are both defending Anak and attacking RS by labeling him as Anak's scumbuddy. I am starting to be on-board with the "lynch Void" wagon.
It was not my intent to defend Anak. I was merely making speculation based on the reactions to Anak’s slip. The fact that Mr. Santorum assumes Day Chat is a jump in logic since Anak only mentioned an outside place to talk.
But you are defending him! A player has made what may or may not be a slip. He is being attacked for it. We will get our best reactions from him if he comes back into the thread and is being attacked. If you weaken the attack by presenting alternatives, we get less of a reaction, less information from the person in question. In short: by giving Anak ways out, you are defending him.
I said my intent was not to defend to him. Does that mean that I didn't defend Anak unintentionally? I understand what you are saying about weakening the attack, but that was not my intent. I saw something that looked incorrect, Re: Day Chat, from Mr. Santorum and I wanted the town to know what I saw as a misrepresentation of the post. You can argue semantics about how the sentence was worded, but for me the sentence that Anak posted doesn’t imply Day Chat. Despite what someone else had said.
I said my intent was not to defend to him. Does that mean that I didn't defend Anak unintentionally? I understand what you are saying about weakening the attack, but that was not my intent. I saw something that looked incorrect, Re: Day Chat, from Mr. Santorum and I wanted the town to know what I saw as a misrepresentation of the post. You can argue semantics about how the sentence was worded, but for me the sentence that Anak posted doesn’t imply Day Chat. Despite what someone else had said.
Fair enough, but I will continue to keep an eye on you.
And, since the door was opened: I think you're misrepresenting what Tom is saying about the real identity of Captain Tyzmo. He specifically addressed you to the first line of his post, while the stuff to Manders came after that.
Sorry again for the distance between my posts. I wish I had a good excuse, but really I just need to be more involved, and remember to check the game more often. I assume about once daily would be a step in the right direction. A bit of a side note on that topic, I cannot post on Shabbat, that being Friday sundown to Saturday at sundown, as using electronics on Shabbat is forbidden by Jewish law. So at least once a week I will have to be absent for about 25 hours. However, from now on, I will do my best to post at least once every other day of the week.
More on topic, thank you Seppel for the advice, but I fear that if I tried to ask every single other player a question, some of the questions would be less relevant and only serve to distract from the more important or useful questions. I would like to pose a few questions, and make some observations, but I'm going to stick to the most current, relevant, and pressing matters.
First of all, @Vox: You said in post #325 that Lenon is "either town or was getting bussed due to being painfully obvious new scum at the time."
Which of those options do you believe to be more likely? And if you believe that Lennon was being bussed, why not pursue that as a scum-catching opportunity?
@Wessel: In post #327, you said "Also, Seppel, if you're a town dayvig, setupwise it's unlikely there would be a Serial Killer. So no need to fear me."
This looks to me like an attempt to imply that as far as your alignment is concerned, the only options are SK and town. I know that most people wouldn't want to make a post insinuating that they could be scum, but in reality, as far as other townies are concerned, anyone could be scum. So, basically, if this post isn't an attempt to subtly imply that the only options present exclude you being scum, why say it at all? In other words, if you weren't trying to manipulate people into believing that you can't be scum, what were you trying to do?
@EtR: Post #333. Obviously it's already been mentioned, but the readiness with which you give in to Seppel's case against you is deeply troubling in my eyes. To me it seems that a member of the town would argue to the last vote against a lynch of themselves, as we need to keep townies alive in order to win. By giving up, you're allowing the scum a mislynch that they need for them to win. Why not try to defend yourself? Even if it seems futile, you should still do it in the hope that you will be able to convince others not to lynch you. Even if you can never change Seppel's mind, without support from other players, Seppel alone cannot lynch you. Well, in this case, that's somewhat false, as Seppel can day-vig you, but the point still stands.
On the slightly heated exchange between Vox and Mr. Santorum: First of all, please try to remember that this is a game. Try to have fun, and not to get so angry about things. That being said, Santorum's reaction to a somewhat tedious, yet basic and I'd assume commonly acceptable request seems to be disproportional. That is to say, it seems to me that even if I didn't see the value in commenting on everyone on the list, I would still offer some comments for each, as it was a direct request of a specific player. Normally that isn't done simply as an exercise in wasting time. Although it turned out that Vox was in a way attempting to make Santorum comment on more players than Vox was actually interested in hearing about, it shouldn't have gone so far without Santorum offering some comment other than a refusal to comment(which fittingly, is exactly the reaction I would expect from the actual Rick Santorum :P). So @Rick Santorum: Why are you so reluctant to offer your opinion on the players listed? Or are you really that opposed to the idea of typing a few lines of text at the request of another player?
Finally, @Mod, a votecount would be really nice to see, when you have a moment to post one. Thanks.
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...That was an extremely sad and stupid way to end Teen Titans ;_;
On a game related note, I have a big programming assignment this weekend and reading material for three classes. I'll have a worthwhile post by the end of this weekend, I hope.
I am suddenly even happier about Seppel joining us.
This entire post is coming across forced to me. Of course the town would be happy for a scum member to be dead, but declare that you are happy that Seppel joined the game in a previous post and now “suddenly” being even happier because Seppel knocked off one scum member just sounds forced.
I was happy that Seppel joined, as he is always entertaining to read, but I assumed that he was doing a fake daykill, because in-thread activated daykills are almost always fake. When it turned out to be real, and he was right and killed scum, I became happier. I am not sure what part of this you are having trouble believing.
Missed this yesterday. I'm having trouble believing your post because of how fake sounding it comes across. I understand Seppel being entertaining to read and understand killing scum would make you happier about Seppel, but the enthusiasm you showed in your post seemed... over the top (can't think of a better way to describe it). And because of that the entire post sounds fake.
I am suddenly even happier about Seppel joining us.
This entire post is coming across forced to me. Of course the town would be happy for a scum member to be dead, but declare that you are happy that Seppel joined the game in a previous post and now “suddenly” being even happier because Seppel knocked off one scum member just sounds forced.
I was happy that Seppel joined, as he is always entertaining to read, but I assumed that he was doing a fake daykill, because in-thread activated daykills are almost always fake. When it turned out to be real, and he was right and killed scum, I became happier. I am not sure what part of this you are having trouble believing.
Missed this yesterday. I'm having trouble believing your post because of how fake sounding it comes across. I understand Seppel being entertaining to read and understand killing scum would make you happier about Seppel, but the enthusiasm you showed in your post seemed... over the top (can't think of a better way to describe it). And because of that the entire post sounds fake.
I think he's happy because he's on my side this time.
I am suddenly even happier about Seppel joining us.
This entire post is coming across forced to me. Of course the town would be happy for a scum member to be dead, but declare that you are happy that Seppel joined the game in a previous post and now “suddenly” being even happier because Seppel knocked off one scum member just sounds forced.
I was happy that Seppel joined, as he is always entertaining to read, but I assumed that he was doing a fake daykill, because in-thread activated daykills are almost always fake. When it turned out to be real, and he was right and killed scum, I became happier. I am not sure what part of this you are having trouble believing.
Missed this yesterday. I'm having trouble believing your post because of how fake sounding it comes across. I understand Seppel being entertaining to read and understand killing scum would make you happier about Seppel, but the enthusiasm you showed in your post seemed... over the top (can't think of a better way to describe it). And because of that the entire post sounds fake.
I think he's happy because he's on my side this time.
And which side would that be? (Rhetorical as I have a town read on you currently)
Missed this yesterday. I'm having trouble believing your post because of how fake sounding it comes across. I understand Seppel being entertaining to read and understand killing scum would make you happier about Seppel, but the enthusiasm you showed in your post seemed... over the top (can't think of a better way to describe it). And because of that the entire post sounds fake.
Missed this yesterday. I'm having trouble believing your post because of how fake sounding it comes across. I understand Seppel being entertaining to read and understand killing scum would make you happier about Seppel, but the enthusiasm you showed in your post seemed... over the top (can't think of a better way to describe it). And because of that the entire post sounds fake.
The fact that Mr. Santorum jumps to the conclusion that Anak is talking about Day Chat without any sort of reference to when the scum can talk is a jump in logic. The catch of the slip without a vote doesn't mesh up together. Based on this posting from Mr. Santorum and the lack of voting I would believe him to be a good candidate (no pun intended :laugh:) of being a scum buddy to Anak.
Based on Tom's post I would believe Tom to be a good candidate for Town as the vote is rather... lacking and follows the misguided logic that Anak slipped about Day Chat when it was simply a slip about another chat out side of this forum. Something I believe town would be more likely to do in a situation like so.
As for the chat outside the forum comment from Anak: The comment doesn't necessarily mean that Anak is scum. He could be referring to a different type of chat related to this game (EG: Mason), but just because Anak could be a Mason doesn't mean that Anak would be a Town Mason. More pressure is needed here as this is becoming a stronger lead than others.
Cyouni
If this post didn't answer your question(s), then I am struggling to find the words that would help me get my point across about the poor reasoning.
You just declared one person scum and another town for doing the exact same thing. Immediately following that, you attempt to throw doubt on the "scumchat" line from Anak (which was your argument for why Santorum was scum), before stating that you believed it referenced a scumchat.
[QUOTE=Seppel;/comments/10873193]You've been gone for 4 days and conveniently you post after the daykill has gone through. How's it feel to get PM notification that your buddy died?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
did you know that half of your list consists of players who have posted fewer than 10 times and/or players who haven't posted in over a week? There is nothing to say.
I'm also neither beholden to you nor interested in doing anything other than:
1. Resolving the Anak daychat issue (requires him to show up)
2. Having EtR answer my question (explicitly)
Note that Anak is one of the people on your list. You're asking me for a read on a player that I've already stated in-thread that I'm not ready to give.
So, useless.
Wait...So, I'm supposed to answer you're question - but you outright refuse to answer Voxx's? This is a very inconsistent mindset. See, if you had been reading my responses or posts at all you would know who I thought was scum.
His posts? I also trust Seppel. And as I said, as for nowI'm just joining the bandwagon.
I have a strong dislike for this post. "As for now I'm just joining the wagon" implies that he already has the mindset of not being on it.
Regarding my "defeatism". It was more that I was just Pi**ed off. I put some effort into that post on Rhand and everyone thinks it's garbage. I was actually kind of happy with it. Keep in mind we were only a couple hundred posts in, so it's not like he could have killed Lincoln yet. I was working with what I had and my previous experience.
@Wessel - Do I still think that Rhand is scum? Yes, I do. The main reason that I wouldn't would be his interactions with Captain T. But my thoughts there are that he wouldn't think anything of bussing a buddy this early on day one. That kill was certainly unexpected. He had plenty of time to back off his buddy...Oh wait, he already did but also claims that Captain T had unanswered questions. Overall, I don't like his play so far.
Oddly enough your blatant refusal to comply to a simple request makes me think you're more likely town than not.
Where this:
Quote from AlphaInsidious »
How magnanimous of you.
Quote from AlphaInsidious »
Besides breathing?
generates the opposite reaction.
My post to you was not regarding your request of Rick Santorum, but rather you telling the rest of the game that they could comment on those players only after Rick did. It felt an awful lot like you were dictating who could speak their mind, which I don't particularly take kindly too.
Especially considering you had a long list of players there.
As for the second part, are you calling it out because you think I was making a joke or being indignant? Because it's definitely one of the two.
You've been gone for 4 days and conveniently you post after the daykill has gone through. How's it feel to get PM notification that your buddy died?
Not that I think you're scum or anything... but has the mod ever PM'd you to announce the death of a teammate?
Nope. I slung mud at Alpha. Instead, I should have called him out on his lurking.
Well, you called me out on lurking too. Which again, shouldn't surprise you.
And it's not even meta...if you can find a game where I didn't lurk, that would be impressive. I don't do it intentionally, it's just hard to find the time to be as prolific as most players are these days.
That being said, it's been a long time since my lurking has caused replacement, so I feel it's not detrimental. Feel free to let me know if you think it is.
Regarding my "defeatism". It was more that I was just Pi**ed off. I put some effort into that post on Rhand and everyone thinks it's garbage. I was actually kind of happy with it. Keep in mind we were only a couple hundred posts in, so it's not like he could have killed Lincoln yet. I was working with what I had and my previous experience.
Working hard on a post doesn't make it necessarily good reasoning or laudable.
You are also being hyperbolic saying "everyone" thinks it's "garbage." This is a game of picking apart people, and people picking apart cases, as you well know. To be so upset over a few people panning your case to the point of throwing in the towel seems overly dramatic.
Quote from EtR »
@Wessel - Do I still think that Rhand is scum? Yes, I do. The main reason that I wouldn't would be his interactions with Captain T. But my thoughts there are that he wouldn't think anything of bussing a buddy this early on day one. That kill was certainly unexpected. He had plenty of time to back off his buddy...Oh wait, he already did but also claims that Captain T had unanswered questions. Overall, I don't like his play so far.
You seem to contradict your own thoughts here. Why entertain his interactions as absolving him, just to say that he was more than likely bussing?
Vote: EtR
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Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
ETR: It's not an inconsistent mindset. Voxx asked me to provide reads on a list of players, most of which were nonentities in the game so far. I asked you to provide your scumreads. I fail to see how these are equivalent.
And I have been reading your posts. I just wanted you to put everything in one post.
I'm reading this as a weak attempt at deflection on your part.
Sorry everyone, I didn't realize how long it had been. Was working ahead in school, as then my girlfriend came back from a long trip a few days ago. Time really just got away from me, and I'm really sorry for that. I will have a post up within the next couple hours, this is just serving more as a check in post to that point.
But to address the elephant in the room, I really just forgot that not every game has day chat. So when Void claimed we were both scum, I just looked at that situation from that perspective, and thought about what he said and believes compared to what happened and what he said previously. So going through it, looking at both of us being scum and forgetting that day-chat isn't mandatory, I posted that if what he said was true, then I could have told him out of thread.
Re: "But Anak, how could you possibly forget that not only is day chat not mandatory, most games don't use it?"
There really is no explanation that makes up for that. It was a really stupid thought, that I never even questioned until everyone else brought it up. Not playing for a while contributed slightly to it, because in that time I kind of shut Mafia out of my mind, but even then I have been scum enough to know the likelihood of having day chat. It was a very dumb statement, but it stems from me saying something and not really thinking about what I was saying.
Next post will be soon, after I go through all the new happenings.
Sorry everyone, I didn't realize how long it had been. Was working ahead in school, as then my girlfriend came back from a long trip a few days ago. Time really just got away from me, and I'm really sorry for that. I will have a post up within the next couple hours, this is just serving more as a check in post to that point.
But to address the elephant in the room, I really just forgot that not every game has day chat. So when Void claimed we were both scum, I just looked at that situation from that perspective, and thought about what he said and believes compared to what happened and what he said previously. So going through it, looking at both of us being scum and forgetting that day-chat isn't mandatory, I posted that if what he said was true, then I could have told him out of thread.
Re: "But Anak, how could you possibly forget that not only is day chat not mandatory, most games don't use it?"
There really is no explanation that makes up for that. It was a really stupid thought, that I never even questioned until everyone else brought it up. Not playing for a while contributed slightly to it, because in that time I kind of shut Mafia out of my mind, but even then I have been scum enough to know the likelihood of having day chat. It was a very dumb statement, but it stems from me saying something and not really thinking about what I was saying.
Next post will be soon, after I go through all the new happenings.
I believe your post changed how Lennon was reacting and now that you have unvote Lennon makes me believe the two of you are know more about this game than the rest of the town.
So now you think that both of us are scum? I could have found his reaction to be more townie, and have unvoted him as such. Why specifically is that coaching, especially since if we were scumbuddies, I could have done that out of thread?
So the scum have daytalk?
@void: Fair enough, if it's regarding an ongoing game we've reached the limit of our ability to discuss that issue.
Sorry everyone, I didn't realize how long it had been. Was working ahead in school, as then my girlfriend came back from a long trip a few days ago. Time really just got away from me, and I'm really sorry for that. I will have a post up within the next couple hours, this is just serving more as a check in post to that point.
But to address the elephant in the room, I really just forgot that not every game has day chat. So when Void claimed we were both scum, I just looked at that situation from that perspective, and thought about what he said and believes compared to what happened and what he said previously. So going through it, looking at both of us being scum and forgetting that day-chat isn't mandatory, I posted that if what he said was true, then I could have told him out of thread.
Re: "But Anak, how could you possibly forget that not only is day chat not mandatory, most games don't use it?"
There really is no explanation that makes up for that. It was a really stupid thought, that I never even questioned until everyone else brought it up. Not playing for a while contributed slightly to it, because in that time I kind of shut Mafia out of my mind, but even then I have been scum enough to know the likelihood of having day chat. It was a very dumb statement, but it stems from me saying something and not really thinking about what I was saying.
Next post will be soon, after I go through all the new happenings.
Anyway, to directly answer Void's question, I assumed that he was talking about day chat because that was the only thing that made sense in context. He was saying, implicitly "if I were buddies with this guy, I wouldn't need to communicate with him in-thread, I'd do it in scumchat!" But I feel like I've said this before. Other possibilities include mason chat (didn't make sense given the context of two scum buddies talking) or OOG communication, which I ruled out for obvious reasons.
A more important question is "Does Rick Santorum think that Anak actually slipped?"
As I am Rick, I can answer this question. I don't think it's necessarily a scum slip. I see it as perfectly reasonable for a townie to assume there is daytalk in this game. I similarly see it as perfectly reasonable for a townie, even an experienced townie, to make the statement that Anak made. It could still be a slip. But I don't actually think that it is.
A follow up question would be "If you don't think it was a slip, why point it out?"
It's cliche at this point, but I wanted to see what people, specifically Anak, would say. This was why I phrased my response as a question, rather than an accusation (with an accompanying vote). This plan was interfered with a bit by the fact that Anak took so damn long to respond to it, but here we are.
Bottom line: It could be a slip, but there's nothing about the statement, nor Anak's recent response, that rules out townAnak.
I totally agree with Rick that Anak's so-called 'slip' is not necessarily indicative of scum. However, what I don't like now is Anak's post now. It reads to me too much like a forced excuse, using 'really' to emphasize his point and 'forgetting that not every game has day chat'. I do have trouble believing that, despite Anak's excuse for why he thought it was so. Overall, between the two possibilities that Anak is either speaking the truth, or is feigning an excuse, my gut tells me the latter is more likely.
It's a minor point and just a gut instinct, but my gut has been right now and then.
I have to note that my first thought was that he forgot that daychat isn't in all games, due to the fact that it's been absurdly common recently and the original sentence flows properly with that.
Scum can generally talk during the night, as you know. Some games (though for some reason, it's been most recently) allow them to talk during the day as well, and that's what that was referencing.
That's supposed to be a "slip" showing that scum have daytalk this game.
Simply put, I'm trying to separate your whimsy from filler. One side is just your personality, while the other could be subtly nefarious; hence, motive.
Or, even more plainly stated, I suspect that you are playing up the reputation you've gained in your short time playing this game for the town points others are giving you.
Well, the whimsy is here to stay. As I mentioned before, I have a passion for writing so making things as interesting for myself as possible will be a primary factor in composing my posts.
So it's not really relevant, I guess! I'll just consider the worth of my observations more before printing them, maybe.
I was having quite a lot of fun early game, and then Seppel goes pro-mode and I'm just like "...well damn." I wanted to show some appreciation >_> maybe that was overboard.
EtR still needs to flip, but it's pretty obvious he's scum by now -- the point is that Tzymo's and EtR's attacks on Rhand did not look like scum attacking scum.
I was only looking for the bit about Rhand; but I was not specific but thank you! That does make sense - scum attacking scum though... never thought about that 0.o
Also I've seen you use the word 'flip' a lot - I don't quite get it yet.
All this discussion about roles is pretty foreign to me still. Same with daychat... I know the mafia has to discuss a nightkill, but meh. I have no idea what roles there are or what there could possibly be, except like a Doctor or a Sheriff - I've heard of those two but that's it. Is there a dictionary somewhere I missed in all of the rules topics I read? Perhaps I'll stay out of that discussion until I'm up to speed - I'll find this stuff out on my own.
Well... and apparently the ability to vote twice and daykill. 0.o
If EtR is town, mafia are just laying low and letting it happen.
If he's scum, they've apparently accepted that it's going to happen and aren't trying to spark an alternative push.
Unless someone wants to make a compelling case on someone else, I'd kind of like to move this game forwards so there's something to actually discuss.
~PreviewEdit~ I apparently missed AI's vote - EtR is at H-2.
So I guess we're waiting on a claim. Lovely.
...Well, when I was reading three-four pages of content, there seemed to be a lot still going on. More than I have time to make a decent post about.
Welp, all I got for now - I have more planned, but I figured this was a start. If I didn't get something done I'd just fall deeper and deeper behind... Motivation is already wearing pretty thin.
I'll claim now and answer any outstanding questions later when I'm at a PC.
I am Hideki Tojo, Vanilla Town.
Flavor wise you might remember me as the PM and military leader of Japan from WWII. I was executed for my part in the war when it was all said and done.
Ultimately, I loved my country and the people of Japan. I was hoping that this gathering of FHF would be my chance at redemption.
I don't know. With Hitler being town, flavor gaming is nearly impossible. Also not fun. I don't know if the claim really changes anything. I won't unvote, as I'm still pretty certain we've caught scum. We'll see, I suppose.
Also, Seppel, why am I on your scum shortlist? Is it my low number of posts? Is that generally considered scummy?
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I don't know. With Hitler being town, flavor gaming is nearly impossible. Also not fun. I don't know if the claim really changes anything. I won't unvote, as I'm still pretty certain we've caught scum. We'll see, I suppose.
Also, Seppel, why am I on your scum shortlist? Is it my low number of posts? Is that generally considered scummy?
It's your low number of posts, and nothing I can find points to you being very likely to be town. Your low number of posts reduces the chances that something like that can happen.
2.It's your low number of posts, and nothing I can find points to you being very likely to be town. Your low number of posts reduces the chances that something like that can happen.
1. I'm not really into the idea of claiming right now unless you can expand on your reasoning for asking me to. Also, if I'm going to name-claim, we might as well have a mass name-claim.
2. I suppose I understand the low number of posts thing. I would be weary of someone who intentionally tried to avoid posting in order to avoid drawing attention to themselves. Is this the only "anti-town" or "scummy" thing I've done though? This is less a question relevant to the game, and more for my own education.
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2.It's your low number of posts, and nothing I can find points to you being very likely to be town. Your low number of posts reduces the chances that something like that can happen.
1. I'm not really into the idea of claiming right now unless you can expand on your reasoning for asking me to. Also, if I'm going to name-claim, we might as well have a mass name-claim.
I'd like you to name-claim as well, given I can guess Seppel's reasoning for asking.
Also, expand on why you think you name-claiming justifies a mass name-claim.
I'd like you to name-claim as well, given I can guess Seppel's reasoning for asking.
Also, expand on why you think you name-claiming justifies a mass name-claim.
I suppose you and Seppel are aware of something that I'm not, as I can't really understand Seppel's reasoning for asking me to claim. As for a mass claim, I think that if I understood better why I'm specifically being asked to claim, I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with being the only one to claim. But to me it seems that if some useful information can be gleaned from a name-claim from me, that same information could be gained concerning every player if there were a mass claim.
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You just declared one person scum and another town for doing the exact same thing. Immediately following that, you attempt to throw doubt on the "scumchat" line from Anak (which was your argument for why Santorum was scum), before stating that you believed it referenced a scumchat.
Your lines don't add up.
Would you mind explaining how they don’t add up? Because I explained the reasoning on why I saw the two posts differently.
One you answer that I have a question for you: Do two posts, that are in response to another post, mean that both players must be town or scum?
You just declared one person scum and another town for doing the exact same thing. Immediately following that, you attempt to throw doubt on the "scumchat" line from Anak (which was your argument for why Santorum was scum), before stating that you believed it referenced a scumchat.
Your lines don't add up.
Would you mind explaining how they don’t add up? Because I explained the reasoning on why I saw the two posts differently.
The fact that Mr. Santorum jumps to the conclusion that Anak is talking about Day Chat without any sort of reference to when the scum can talk is a jump in logic. The catch of the slip without a vote doesn't mesh up together. Based on this posting from Mr. Santorum and the lack of voting I would believe him to be a good candidate (no pun intended :laugh:) of being a scum buddy to Anak.
Based on Tom's post I would believe Tom to be a good candidate for Town as the vote is rather... lacking and follows the misguided logic that Anak slipped about Day Chat when it was simply a slip about another chat out side of this forum. Something I believe town would be more likely to do in a situation like so.
Your explanation for why Santorum is scum is due to the "jump in logic", as well as the missing vote. However, you also later state that you thought Anak's comment was referring to a scumchat. Furthermore, you also describe the logic as "misguided", which is not something you'd use to describe scum logic.
Regarding Tom, you simply state his actions and arbitrarily declare him as town.
I'm also going to note that you ignored the second half of my post - you attempt to throw doubt on the "scumchat" line before stating that you believed that it referred to a scumchat.
Regarding my "defeatism". It was more that I was just Pi**ed off. I put some effort into that post on Rhand and everyone thinks it's garbage. I was actually kind of happy with it. Keep in mind we were only a couple hundred posts in, so it's not like he could have killed Lincoln yet. I was working with what I had and my previous experience.
Working hard on a post doesn't make it necessarily good reasoning or laudable.
You are also being hyperbolic saying "everyone" thinks it's "garbage." This is a game of picking apart people, and people picking apart cases, as you well know. To be so upset over a few people panning your case to the point of throwing in the towel seems overly dramatic.
True, but I thought it was a good post. I don't think I've ever been attacked like that over one post. I wasn't trying to be dramatic.
@Wessel - Do I still think that Rhand is scum? Yes, I do. The main reason that I wouldn't would be his interactions with Captain T. But my thoughts there are that he wouldn't think anything of bussing a buddy this early on day one. That kill was certainly unexpected. He had plenty of time to back off his buddy...Oh wait, he already did but also claims that Captain T had unanswered questions. Overall, I don't like his play so far.
You seem to contradict your own thoughts here. Why entertain his interactions as absolving him, just to say that he was more than likely bussing?
Vote: EtR
Because I'm attempting to be objective. His actions with Tyzmo can be either town or scum. I'm leaning scum, but I'm trying to think through things from Rhand's perspective.
ETR: It's not an inconsistent mindset. Voxx asked me to provide reads on a list of players, most of which were nonentities in the game so far. I asked you to provide your scumreads. I fail to see how these are equivalent.
And I have been reading your posts. I just wanted you to put everything in one post.
I'm reading this as a weak attempt at deflection on your part.
Ok; Unvote Rhand;Vote Rick Santorum inb4OMGUS.
1) You refuse to answer Voxx's question, which he explained would help him get a better read on you.
2) It turned into a volley of words, which at the end, you admit to trying to be hard to read on purpose.
3) You find me as an easy target and deflect back to me. If nothing else you are using my position as a point to take pressure off yourself.
EtR asked me why I thought he was twisting Rhand's words. Here's my answer, limited to the actual twisting. Rhand did a pretty good job at singling out other oddities and weaksauce in EtR's case.
1. I understand the power. I was wondering if having 2 votes clears Tom.
This post can be read 1 of 2 ways, IMO. 1. Rhand is legitimately trying to clear a townie. 2. It could be read that Rhand is now concerned with having a cleared townie. Who would be concerned about having a cleared town? Scum.
Tries to paint Rhand as scum by implying that only scum look to clear town. That is a twisting of Rhand's objective, and is a clear sign of either tunnelling by EtR, or a scummotivated attempt at blackening Rhand.
Yes, you may want to try and clear a townie - later in the game. This early on Day 1? I don't see it. He's avoiding scum hunting.
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
Basically, low hanging fruit is the easiest one to pick. In this case, I mean that if Captain T is scum, it appears that he is going after what would be the easiest mislynch.
I see. I share that idea on captain t (and everyone else who is voting for lennon for that matter).
I don't see it on void voting for Anak. How is that an easy mislynch? Easy implies that the wagon will gather votes without too much pushing, right?
Again, this is in response to our conversation. Rhand does throw some additional information in here about his vote on Captain T, but then generalizes it by saying "and everyone else" leaving him the option of voting for any of those people if a case presents itself.
Removes Rhand's argument that it is a scumtrait to go for low-hanging fruit from the equation, and accuses him of trying to foreshadow a vote on 'everyone voting for lennon'. That is a twisting of Rhand's argument because EtR argues that Rhand's doing it so he can at one point vote everyone voting for Lennon, while he completely missing the reasonable argument that was lying behind it.
Is it not possible for scum to have a logical argument?
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later. Unvote
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
Busy work
He accuses Rhand everywhere of posting non-substantial posts and 'busy work', but this is the clearest example that EtR is just trying to put that stamp onto any of his posts, twisting its content by doing so. Rhand here asks a good scumhunting question, but wait, since EtR is just chainsaw defending Captain Tzymo, it's a 'busy work' post.
I don't see this as a scum hunting statement. As scum, what is the logical answer here? In fact, as town, what is the answer? Either way you answer you end up with a bad outcome. If you say "No" then someone can point to where you questioned someone and claim that you lied. If you say yes, then you're bloodthirsty.
Would you please repost/quote the question? I’m not seeing it.
I said my intent was not to defend to him. Does that mean that I didn't defend Anak unintentionally? I understand what you are saying about weakening the attack, but that was not my intent. I saw something that looked incorrect, Re: Day Chat, from Mr. Santorum and I wanted the town to know what I saw as a misrepresentation of the post. You can argue semantics about how the sentence was worded, but for me the sentence that Anak posted doesn’t imply Day Chat. Despite what someone else had said.
Fair enough, but I will continue to keep an eye on you.
And, since the door was opened: I think you're misrepresenting what Tom is saying about the real identity of Captain Tyzmo. He specifically addressed you to the first line of his post, while the stuff to Manders came after that.
You're right, RR.
More on topic, thank you Seppel for the advice, but I fear that if I tried to ask every single other player a question, some of the questions would be less relevant and only serve to distract from the more important or useful questions. I would like to pose a few questions, and make some observations, but I'm going to stick to the most current, relevant, and pressing matters.
First of all, @Vox: You said in post #325 that Lenon is "either town or was getting bussed due to being painfully obvious new scum at the time."
Which of those options do you believe to be more likely? And if you believe that Lennon was being bussed, why not pursue that as a scum-catching opportunity?
@Wessel: In post #327, you said "Also, Seppel, if you're a town dayvig, setupwise it's unlikely there would be a Serial Killer. So no need to fear me."
This looks to me like an attempt to imply that as far as your alignment is concerned, the only options are SK and town. I know that most people wouldn't want to make a post insinuating that they could be scum, but in reality, as far as other townies are concerned, anyone could be scum. So, basically, if this post isn't an attempt to subtly imply that the only options present exclude you being scum, why say it at all? In other words, if you weren't trying to manipulate people into believing that you can't be scum, what were you trying to do?
@EtR: Post #333. Obviously it's already been mentioned, but the readiness with which you give in to Seppel's case against you is deeply troubling in my eyes. To me it seems that a member of the town would argue to the last vote against a lynch of themselves, as we need to keep townies alive in order to win. By giving up, you're allowing the scum a mislynch that they need for them to win. Why not try to defend yourself? Even if it seems futile, you should still do it in the hope that you will be able to convince others not to lynch you. Even if you can never change Seppel's mind, without support from other players, Seppel alone cannot lynch you. Well, in this case, that's somewhat false, as Seppel can day-vig you, but the point still stands.
On the slightly heated exchange between Vox and Mr. Santorum: First of all, please try to remember that this is a game. Try to have fun, and not to get so angry about things. That being said, Santorum's reaction to a somewhat tedious, yet basic and I'd assume commonly acceptable request seems to be disproportional. That is to say, it seems to me that even if I didn't see the value in commenting on everyone on the list, I would still offer some comments for each, as it was a direct request of a specific player. Normally that isn't done simply as an exercise in wasting time. Although it turned out that Vox was in a way attempting to make Santorum comment on more players than Vox was actually interested in hearing about, it shouldn't have gone so far without Santorum offering some comment other than a refusal to comment(which fittingly, is exactly the reaction I would expect from the actual Rick Santorum :P). So @Rick Santorum: Why are you so reluctant to offer your opinion on the players listed? Or are you really that opposed to the idea of typing a few lines of text at the request of another player?
Finally, @Mod, a votecount would be really nice to see, when you have a moment to post one. Thanks.
On a game related note, I have a big programming assignment this weekend and reading material for three classes. I'll have a worthwhile post by the end of this weekend, I hope.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
Missed this yesterday. I'm having trouble believing your post because of how fake sounding it comes across. I understand Seppel being entertaining to read and understand killing scum would make you happier about Seppel, but the enthusiasm you showed in your post seemed... over the top (can't think of a better way to describe it). And because of that the entire post sounds fake.
I think he's happy because he's on my side this time.
And which side would that be?
EtR (6): Seppel, Lord of Tresserhorn, Voxxicus, Rhand, Wessel, Tom
Anaklusmos (1): Tom
Cythare (1): Robroy
Not Voting (11): Cythare, Anaklusmos, Swishh, AlphaInsidious, Void, TeH Jey, Cyouni, EtR, Rick Santorum, Lennonmint80, Kill-joy.
With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch. There remains 14 days until the end of day 1 (I ended up moving the first deadline back a day).
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Vote EtR
Your reason being that seppel brought you to tears?
Enthusiasm?
I mean, I was surprised, but I'm hardly gushing here.
Please provide more reason for this vote than "Seppel said so." Does this mean you believe EtR to be scum? What reasons do you have for thinking so?
Enthusiasm means a strong excitement of felling
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModThere you go.
Why is that figure of speech, or any one really, any kind of tell?
Why are you joining the wagon, exactly?
Wait...So, I'm supposed to answer you're question - but you outright refuse to answer Voxx's? This is a very inconsistent mindset. See, if you had been reading my responses or posts at all you would know who I thought was scum.
I have a strong dislike for this post. "As for now I'm just joining the wagon" implies that he already has the mindset of not being on it.
Regarding my "defeatism". It was more that I was just Pi**ed off. I put some effort into that post on Rhand and everyone thinks it's garbage. I was actually kind of happy with it. Keep in mind we were only a couple hundred posts in, so it's not like he could have killed Lincoln yet. I was working with what I had and my previous experience.
@Wessel - Do I still think that Rhand is scum? Yes, I do. The main reason that I wouldn't would be his interactions with Captain T. But my thoughts there are that he wouldn't think anything of bussing a buddy this early on day one. That kill was certainly unexpected. He had plenty of time to back off his buddy...Oh wait, he already did but also claims that Captain T had unanswered questions. Overall, I don't like his play so far.
My post to you was not regarding your request of Rick Santorum, but rather you telling the rest of the game that they could comment on those players only after Rick did. It felt an awful lot like you were dictating who could speak their mind, which I don't particularly take kindly too.
Especially considering you had a long list of players there.
As for the second part, are you calling it out because you think I was making a joke or being indignant? Because it's definitely one of the two.
Well, you called me out on lurking too. Which again, shouldn't surprise you.
And it's not even meta...if you can find a game where I didn't lurk, that would be impressive. I don't do it intentionally, it's just hard to find the time to be as prolific as most players are these days.
That being said, it's been a long time since my lurking has caused replacement, so I feel it's not detrimental. Feel free to let me know if you think it is.
You didn't answer my questions to you about your read on Teh_JeY. Did you miss them, or are you willfully ignoring?
Emphasis mine. @Swishh - What is your end goal for being on this bandwagon? It doesn't sound like you are interested in a lynch.
Working hard on a post doesn't make it necessarily good reasoning or laudable.
You are also being hyperbolic saying "everyone" thinks it's "garbage." This is a game of picking apart people, and people picking apart cases, as you well know. To be so upset over a few people panning your case to the point of throwing in the towel seems overly dramatic.
You seem to contradict your own thoughts here. Why entertain his interactions as absolving him, just to say that he was more than likely bussing?
Vote: EtR
And I have been reading your posts. I just wanted you to put everything in one post.
I'm reading this as a weak attempt at deflection on your part.
But to address the elephant in the room, I really just forgot that not every game has day chat. So when Void claimed we were both scum, I just looked at that situation from that perspective, and thought about what he said and believes compared to what happened and what he said previously. So going through it, looking at both of us being scum and forgetting that day-chat isn't mandatory, I posted that if what he said was true, then I could have told him out of thread.
Re: "But Anak, how could you possibly forget that not only is day chat not mandatory, most games don't use it?"
There really is no explanation that makes up for that. It was a really stupid thought, that I never even questioned until everyone else brought it up. Not playing for a while contributed slightly to it, because in that time I kind of shut Mafia out of my mind, but even then I have been scum enough to know the likelihood of having day chat. It was a very dumb statement, but it stems from me saying something and not really thinking about what I was saying.
Next post will be soon, after I go through all the new happenings.
Emphasis mine.
That's the definition of a slip.
...NOTHING.
For context:
And his response, finally:
Anyway, to directly answer Void's question, I assumed that he was talking about day chat because that was the only thing that made sense in context. He was saying, implicitly "if I were buddies with this guy, I wouldn't need to communicate with him in-thread, I'd do it in scumchat!" But I feel like I've said this before. Other possibilities include mason chat (didn't make sense given the context of two scum buddies talking) or OOG communication, which I ruled out for obvious reasons.
A more important question is "Does Rick Santorum think that Anak actually slipped?"
As I am Rick, I can answer this question. I don't think it's necessarily a scum slip. I see it as perfectly reasonable for a townie to assume there is daytalk in this game. I similarly see it as perfectly reasonable for a townie, even an experienced townie, to make the statement that Anak made. It could still be a slip. But I don't actually think that it is.
A follow up question would be "If you don't think it was a slip, why point it out?"
It's cliche at this point, but I wanted to see what people, specifically Anak, would say. This was why I phrased my response as a question, rather than an accusation (with an accompanying vote). This plan was interfered with a bit by the fact that Anak took so damn long to respond to it, but here we are.
Bottom line: It could be a slip, but there's nothing about the statement, nor Anak's recent response, that rules out townAnak.
If EtR is town, mafia are just laying low and letting it happen.
If he's scum, they've apparently accepted that it's going to happen and aren't trying to spark an alternative push.
Unless someone wants to make a compelling case on someone else, I'd kind of like to move this game forwards so there's something to actually discuss.
~PreviewEdit~ I apparently missed AI's vote - EtR is at H-2.
So I guess we're waiting on a claim. Lovely.
Killjoy, Tresserhorn, et others.
Those two names in particular, too.
With Alpha and Anak being other possibilities.
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Did... this not count as a proper vote? The vote count showed me as not voting.
Thank you!
Hehehe :3
Thank you!
Well, the whimsy is here to stay. As I mentioned before, I have a passion for writing so making things as interesting for myself as possible will be a primary factor in composing my posts.
B-but, I--
W-wh-- h--. -sigh- I guess it may resemble some... sucking up, but--! No, no, you're right. I suppose I got carried away again;
I was having quite a lot of fun early game, and then Seppel goes pro-mode and I'm just like "...well damn." I wanted to show some appreciation >_> maybe that was overboard.
I was only looking for the bit about Rhand; but I was not specific but thank you! That does make sense - scum attacking scum though... never thought about that 0.o
Also I've seen you use the word 'flip' a lot - I don't quite get it yet.
All this discussion about roles is pretty foreign to me still. Same with daychat... I know the mafia has to discuss a nightkill, but meh. I have no idea what roles there are or what there could possibly be, except like a Doctor or a Sheriff - I've heard of those two but that's it. Is there a dictionary somewhere I missed in all of the rules topics I read? Perhaps I'll stay out of that discussion until I'm up to speed - I'll find this stuff out on my own.
Well... and apparently the ability to vote twice and daykill. 0.o
...Well, when I was reading three-four pages of content, there seemed to be a lot still going on. More than I have time to make a decent post about.
Welp, all I got for now - I have more planned, but I figured this was a start. If I didn't get something done I'd just fall deeper and deeper behind... Motivation is already wearing pretty thin.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
I am Hideki Tojo, Vanilla Town.
Flavor wise you might remember me as the PM and military leader of Japan from WWII. I was executed for my part in the war when it was all said and done.
Ultimately, I loved my country and the people of Japan. I was hoping that this gathering of FHF would be my chance at redemption.
unvote: EtR if true.
Also, Seppel, why am I on your scum shortlist? Is it my low number of posts? Is that generally considered scummy?
What's your rolename, btw? Serious question.
It's your low number of posts, and nothing I can find points to you being very likely to be town. Your low number of posts reduces the chances that something like that can happen.
1. I'm not really into the idea of claiming right now unless you can expand on your reasoning for asking me to. Also, if I'm going to name-claim, we might as well have a mass name-claim.
2. I suppose I understand the low number of posts thing. I would be weary of someone who intentionally tried to avoid posting in order to avoid drawing attention to themselves. Is this the only "anti-town" or "scummy" thing I've done though? This is less a question relevant to the game, and more for my own education.
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModI'd like you to name-claim as well, given I can guess Seppel's reasoning for asking.
Also, expand on why you think you name-claiming justifies a mass name-claim.
I suppose you and Seppel are aware of something that I'm not, as I can't really understand Seppel's reasoning for asking me to claim. As for a mass claim, I think that if I understood better why I'm specifically being asked to claim, I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with being the only one to claim. But to me it seems that if some useful information can be gleaned from a name-claim from me, that same information could be gained concerning every player if there were a mass claim.
Nameclam, please.
(this may later be expanded into a mass-name claim, but one name is good enough for now)
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Except Void. He's probably town.
Would you mind explaining how they don’t add up? Because I explained the reasoning on why I saw the two posts differently.
One you answer that I have a question for you: Do two posts, that are in response to another post, mean that both players must be town or scum?
B'seder. My character is Winston Churchill. Am I going to be let in on why I'm claiming though?
That made me laugh. 60ppp.
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModYour explanation for why Santorum is scum is due to the "jump in logic", as well as the missing vote. However, you also later state that you thought Anak's comment was referring to a scumchat. Furthermore, you also describe the logic as "misguided", which is not something you'd use to describe scum logic.
Regarding Tom, you simply state his actions and arbitrarily declare him as town.
I'm also going to note that you ignored the second half of my post - you attempt to throw doubt on the "scumchat" line before stating that you believed that it referred to a scumchat.
Nope.
True, but I thought it was a good post. I don't think I've ever been attacked like that over one post. I wasn't trying to be dramatic.
Because I'm attempting to be objective. His actions with Tyzmo can be either town or scum. I'm leaning scum, but I'm trying to think through things from Rhand's perspective.
Ok; Unvote Rhand;Vote Rick Santorum inb4OMGUS.
1) You refuse to answer Voxx's question, which he explained would help him get a better read on you.
2) It turned into a volley of words, which at the end, you admit to trying to be hard to read on purpose.
3) You find me as an easy target and deflect back to me. If nothing else you are using my position as a point to take pressure off yourself.
Yes, you may want to try and clear a townie - later in the game. This early on Day 1? I don't see it. He's avoiding scum hunting.
Is it not possible for scum to have a logical argument?
I don't see this as a scum hunting statement. As scum, what is the logical answer here? In fact, as town, what is the answer? Either way you answer you end up with a bad outcome. If you say "No" then someone can point to where you questioned someone and claim that you lied. If you say yes, then you're bloodthirsty.
I hope that helps.
This, so much. Like the people that wanted answers from me and never responded to them after they casted their vote and I answered?
Or Rick S, who hasn't voted me but has continually pressured me?
Says the caring townie.
Sure:
Mean Girls: - Lynched Day 2 if I recall correctly.
Modern Family: - I replaced in on the final day of the game
Also one on going game.
Me either - I wanted a PR this game.
Well, I think that's it for now.