[B]unvote[/B] Teh JeY. I think I misread her enthousiasm for nervousness.
The pressure didn't bring her off balance. The posting of her whole thought process makes what she types very hard to fake.
I don't like the votes on lennon. The noobcard is not a scumtell. A town noob has just as many reasons to say he has no experience as a scum noob.
Captain Tzymo is quick to "gotcha" him for that and adds that lennon is refusing to give content, clearly ignoring lennon's next post where he says he is suspicious of swishh.
[B]unvote[/B] Teh JeY. I think I misread her enthousiasm for nervousness.
The pressure didn't bring her off balance. The posting of her whole thought process makes what she types very hard to fake.
I don't like the votes on lennon. The noobcard is not a scumtell. A town noob has just as many reasons to say he has no experience as a scum noob.
Captain Tzymo is quick to "gotcha" him for that and adds that lennon is refusing to give content, clearly ignoring lennon's next post where he says he is suspicious of swishh.
[B]vote: captain tzymo[/vote]
You think "But if i was too vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around alot which might mean something" is content? He fence-sits, and then says that swishh is fooling around. How? How is swishh fooling around? I provided quotes of Lennon's, showing his weak play. And the noob card is just icing on the cake.
You think "But if i was too vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around alot which might mean something" is content? He fence-sits, and then says that swishh is fooling around. How? How is swishh fooling around? I provided quotes of Lennon's, showing his weak play. And the noob card is just icing on the cake.
Yes, I do think it's content. You say he gives nothing to analyse, but you are analysing it.
I'm curious: do you actually think I'm scum? That vote seems terribly out of place with the rest of your paragraph
2. What's the difference between thinking you're scum and actually thinking you're scum?
Because I think you're scum.
Absent explanation, a vote generally means that you think someone's scum.
However, that paragraph talks about something 'missing' in my explanation, which doesn't make sense as an explanation if you think someone's scum.
Of course the fence-sit post went ignored for a while but a person without too many previous posts in the discussion brings it up, followed by two more people without too many previous posts, hardly bandwagoning as opposed to staking a really good claim. Perhaps I'm missing something fishy?
Three people vote for her. Her immediate response is to wonder if she's missing something fishy. There are two options here, given the context isn't fully clear. One, that there's something fishy with her accusers. That's oblique mudslinging. Two, that there's something fishy in her posts that she's missing.
[B]Town shouldn't be wondering if there's something fishy in their posts that's being attacked[/B].
The bolded: If Teh JeY is town, then why wouldn't she want to know what is fishy about her posts when she is not familiar with are meta?
First, how is site meta relevant in this case?
The second is more complicated, and I misworded it slightly. Take the original phrase, "Perhaps I'm missing something fishy?" From this, it can be inferred that there could be something fishy she's not missing. Or, rather, that she believes that there could be something fishy in her post.
It's a guilty mindset. Consider: would you be wondering if there's something scummy in your post?
[B]unvote[/B] Teh JeY. I think I misread her enthousiasm for nervousness.
The pressure didn't bring her off balance. The posting of her whole thought process makes what she types very hard to fake.
I don't like the votes on lennon. The noobcard is not a scumtell. A town noob has just as many reasons to say he has no experience as a scum noob.
Captain Tzymo is quick to "gotcha" him for that and adds that lennon is refusing to give content, clearly ignoring lennon's next post where he says he is suspicious of swishh.
[B]vote: captain tzymo[/vote]
You think "But if i was too vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around alot which might mean something" is content? He fence-sits, and then says that swishh is fooling around. How? How is swishh fooling around? I provided quotes of Lennon's, showing his weak play. And the noob card is just icing on the cake.
How is the noob card scummy?
How is weak play scummy, given the noob card?
Specifically, what makes him more likely scum than a town noob?
I think Cyouni's unnecessary use of the word 'actually' is suspect. If he isn't scum, I don't see why he wouldn't have just said "If you think I'm scum" (because he's not). Instead he said "If you actually think I'm scum" (which I read as "Yes, I'm scum, but I don't see why you would think that.)
@Cyouni, please elaborate.
[B]unvote[/B] Teh JeY. I think I misread her enthousiasm for nervousness.
The pressure didn't bring her off balance. The posting of her whole thought process makes what she types very hard to fake.
I don't like the votes on lennon. The noobcard is not a scumtell. A town noob has just as many reasons to say he has no experience as a scum noob.
Captain Tzymo is quick to "gotcha" him for that and adds that lennon is refusing to give content, clearly ignoring lennon's next post where he says he is suspicious of swishh.
[B]vote: captain tzymo[/vote]
You think "But if i was too vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around alot which might mean something" is content? He fence-sits, and then says that swishh is fooling around. How? How is swishh fooling around? I provided quotes of Lennon's, showing his weak play. And the noob card is just icing on the cake.
How is the noob card scummy?
How is weak play scummy, given the noob card?
Specifically, what makes him more likely scum than a town noob?
EBP: This will apply to Wessel's question as well (basically the same).
The noob card isn't scummy. Weak play isn't scummy. What's scummy (and weak play) are posts that add nothing to the discussion. Look at how he responds to Void.
My name is based off a random paper i found when i was 6 i was trying to come up with an rpg name so my mom looked at some random papers and we got lennonmint its been my name for everything ever since then
Do you have nothing else to say about the game?
your quick to jump on my back its the first day
We got a comment about swishh as his first real thing about the game, and that was anemic. By avoiding content, he can avoid being scrutinized for inconsistencies. Add to that when he does get scrutinized, it's "I'm a noob" with a quick add-on of a player, rather than "here, let me tell you how I feel about some other players".
The noob card in this context is a way of explaining away weaknesses in arguments, without actually covering those weaknesses.
@Wessel: Two reasons. One is that I like starting wagons, since that's how we'll actually get anything accomplished this game. Two is that I like to see what people will say to something like that (see: swishh).
I'm going to be slightly less active in this game for a while given that I replaced into a different game just recently and rereading that is taking up time. I'll reread and give more substantial comments when I have time.
Anak is an experienced player here on this site, but he assumes that this post could only come from scum. That is not a town mind set. He's going for low hanging fruit and hoping it sticks.
You're putting words into my mouth. I say that somethings he did looked scummy, and voted him for it. That doesn't mean I think he is scum, it means he did something I wasn't a fan of, and I wanted to push him a bit to see his reactions to being voted again. That way, I would be able to discern if he was town that just happened to do something that I didn't like, or he was scum that continued to act shady. Applying pressure via voting is not something you only can do against scum, it's not like he was close to being lynched at that point anyway.
For someone who is also experienced, watching me do that should be a pretty easy indicator that I'm pressuring him to see how he responds. You are the pot calling the kettle black, as you are only seeing my vote and reasoning against him as scummy, not bothering to think of a way my vote makes sense from a town perspective.
Calling me out for doing something, then doing that yourself? IGMEOY.
Quote from Robroy »
That is an interesting take on my interaction with Lennonmint. He asked for clarification on my reasons for voting him. How is that refusing to comment?
I'm stupid. For some reason I thought there were more actual votes against him than just yours. I was actually completely wrong here. Point retracted.
Quote from Void »
For me it's the fact that Anak is an experienced player and knows that the mind set presented is not just a scum mind set. He didn't even consider the other option in his post and that is a rather big red flag for me.
Sure, it could be bad play versus scummy play, but I haven't seen too many games where Anak makes bad moves. The last game I played with Anak was Basic #59 Modern Family where he was scum. He managed to lurk through most the game while avoiding the little pressure that came his way. While that is not the primary reason that the Town lost it is still something that I will not forget. For now I believe pressuring Anak is a good route to take.
Experienced player != good player. I wanted to pressure him to see how he responded to it. Doesn't mean I went about that in the best way, but if I had given a townie rationale for that, then he would be able to float my townie reasoning for what he did, and the whole looking for reactions thing would have been rendered fruitless.
You haven't seen too many games where I make bad moves? I do it all the time, you just aren't looking hard enough. About lurking, I never have been one to post very frequently, sometimes it spikes up for a couple days but usually I post once a day or so. So, in general I have a more lurky playstyle. That game specifically, I pushed it a little further, mostly because the town was not calling me out on it (from what I remember, its been a while) and it was making it very easy for me to avoid pressure through the whole game. So, just because I lurked that one game as scum and won, doesn't mean every time I lurk I am scum, I do it every game.
Now, what I got from Lennon. He is nervous, in his first game, and someone voted him that is experienced, without reasoning. Instead of freaking out, he asks for reasoning about that vote. When I vote him, he again stays calm, doesn't get any more defensive, and tries to find someone he doesn't like and reasoning for it. Sure the reasoning is wishy washy, but that's not the point. The point is he is trying, and for someone in their first game, that is what matters. Combined with taking votes in stride and not getting ultra-defensive, I believe that Lennon is just a newb townie.
Unvote
Swishh is also looking more townie. Responded well to me, is now scumhunting and posting content. Will be reading more and have another post up tonight.
Uhm, you think Cythare only thinks there are only three scum based on naming three potential scumbuddies?
I didn't know, that's why I asked. That's what I suspected, saying as he specifically called them the scum team.
Quote from Wessel »
Do you see Lennon's action as indicative of scum, and why?
I saw Lennon's reaction to Void's little bit of pressure scummy. I wouldn't say town couldn't react that way either, though... and after my vote to get more reactions out of Lennon, I'm happy with how he responded. He was much more calm. Unvote: Lennon
Quote from Wessel »
I don't like the quickness with which Cythare backpedals by confessing he (or she?) has been spaced out about the number of players in this game. When I read Cythare's initial post about the possible scumteam, not once did I read that as implying he/she thought they were the only three scum in this whole game.
Though at the same time, by backpedalling on this specific issue (thinking there are less scum than there probably are), I'm thinking Cythare is probably not scum, since scum would never even think twice about making a mistake about there possibly being three scum. Unless, of course, we're in fact dealing with a three man scum team. But I don't think that's likely.
@second paragraph: Why would scum "never even think twice about making a mistake about there possibly being 3 scum"? Why couldn't Cythare be scum who cleverly claims to not know the number of scum on the scum team?
--
I'm leaving my vote on EtR until I have reason to unvote.. I want to hear more content from him. I still don't like how careful he was being.
The fact that you are refusing to comment on your vote, especially after someone asked you specifically to comment on his vote for you, makes you look scummy. You are also quick to get defensive, nobody is really getting on you're back. Now what would you have to be defensive about?
Unvote Vote Lennonmint
Unvote Vote: Anaklusmos
Anak is an experienced player here on this site, but he assumes that this post could only come from scum. That is not a town mind set. He's going for low hanging fruit and hoping it sticks.
Why is Anak a better vote than any of the others you've been questioning?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm stating that I'm a doublevoter because I can't really get much use out of that ability without everybody finding out that I have it anyway.
If this reasoning is true, then why didn't you claim immediately. I guess my question is why did you choose then to reveal it? Why not earlier, if you believe what you say?
I think Cyouni's unnecessary use of the word 'actually' is suspect. If he isn't scum, I don't see why he wouldn't have just said "If you think I'm scum" (because he's not). Instead he said "If you actually think I'm scum" (which I read as "Yes, I'm scum, but I don't see why you would think that.)
@Cyouni, please elaborate.
Not really sure what to elaborate on - I felt my previous post explained it pretty well. The vote was placed in a way that implies she thinks I'm scum, but the reasons are nonexistent.
[B]unvote[/B] Teh JeY. I think I misread her enthousiasm for nervousness.
The pressure didn't bring her off balance. The posting of her whole thought process makes what she types very hard to fake.
I don't like the votes on lennon. The noobcard is not a scumtell. A town noob has just as many reasons to say he has no experience as a scum noob.
Captain Tzymo is quick to "gotcha" him for that and adds that lennon is refusing to give content, clearly ignoring lennon's next post where he says he is suspicious of swishh.
[B]vote: captain tzymo[/vote]
You think "But if i was too vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around alot which might mean something" is content? He fence-sits, and then says that swishh is fooling around. How? How is swishh fooling around? I provided quotes of Lennon's, showing his weak play. And the noob card is just icing on the cake.
How is the noob card scummy?
How is weak play scummy, given the noob card?
Specifically, what makes him more likely scum than a town noob?
EBP: This will apply to Wessel's question as well (basically the same).
The noob card isn't scummy. Weak play isn't scummy. What's scummy (and weak play) are posts that add nothing to the discussion. Look at how he responds to Void.
My name is based off a random paper i found when i was 6 i was trying to come up with an rpg name so my mom looked at some random papers and we got lennonmint its been my name for everything ever since then
Do you have nothing else to say about the game?
your quick to jump on my back its the first day
We got a comment about swishh as his first real thing about the game, and that was anemic. By avoiding content, he can avoid being scrutinized for inconsistencies. Add to that when he does get scrutinized, it's "I'm a noob" with a quick add-on of a player, rather than "here, let me tell you how I feel about some other players".
The noob card in this context is a way of explaining away weaknesses in arguments, without actually covering those weaknesses.
Why would being scrutinized for completely avoiding content be better than the possibility of having inconsistencies?
Why would being scrutinized for completely avoiding content be better than the possibility of having inconsistencies?
Because there's nothing that anyone can point to and say "This is not town mindset." It's an overall behavior, so rather than say "Look at this post, it's bad for this reason. This post, it's also bad for another reason. And finally, this post has this thing wrong with it." I end up having to go "His behavior is not town for this reason." Alternatively, look at my posts. You might be able to find things wrong with individual posts and say "Here's what's wrong with this post, and the reason this post is bad, and finally this post. Also, he's aggressive." Does that help explain it?
I'm stating that I'm a doublevoter because I can't really get much use out of that ability without everybody finding out that I have it anyway.
If this reasoning is true, then why didn't you claim immediately. I guess my question is why did you choose then to reveal it? Why not earlier, if you believe what you say?
I had no reason to.
Also, now proving it would be cool, as KJ said.
I should still be voting for EtR, so Vote: Tom
I may change my vote to someone else though before the next vote count.
Why would being scrutinized for completely avoiding content be better than the possibility of having inconsistencies?
Because there's nothing that anyone can point to and say "This is not town mindset." It's an overall behavior, so rather than say "Look at this post, it's bad for this reason. This post, it's also bad for another reason. And finally, this post has this thing wrong with it." I end up having to go "His behavior is not town for this reason." Alternatively, look at my posts. You might be able to find things wrong with individual posts and say "Here's what's wrong with this post, and the reason this post is bad, and finally this post. Also, he's aggressive." Does that help explain it?
So how is "completely avoiding content" not something that can be pointed to?
I'm stating that I'm a doublevoter because I can't really get much use out of that ability without everybody finding out that I have it anyway.
If this reasoning is true, then why didn't you claim immediately. I guess my question is why did you choose then to reveal it? Why not earlier, if you believe what you say?
I had no reason to.
Also, now proving it would be cool, as KJ said.
I should still be voting for EtR, so Vote: Tom
I may change my vote to someone else though before the next vote count.
Is there something that prevents you from voting the same person twice?
Why would being scrutinized for completely avoiding content be better than the possibility of having inconsistencies?
Because there's nothing that anyone can point to and say "This is not town mindset." It's an overall behavior, so rather than say "Look at this post, it's bad for this reason. This post, it's also bad for another reason. And finally, this post has this thing wrong with it." I end up having to go "His behavior is not town for this reason." Alternatively, look at my posts. You might be able to find things wrong with individual posts and say "Here's what's wrong with this post, and the reason this post is bad, and finally this post. Also, he's aggressive." Does that help explain it?
So how is "completely avoiding content" not something that can be pointed to?
Bolding emphasis is mine.
The only thing to point toward is the avoiding content, rather than any specific posts. There's a LOT LESS that you can end up using for or against a player who is posting fluff.
Also no worries about gender <3 I have many masculine tendencies.
Like a moustache?
Oops. Mannerisms* Actually.
Anywho really hate those days where you wake up feeling miserable and it never goes away. I also learned that going to the dentist early in the morning followed immediately by a haircut while sick is a terrible idea @_@ Feelin' good today though~
Last OOC comment of the day, you can just call me JeY in any manner of capitalization as you'd like s'long as you spell it with an 'e' >_> 'Teh' isn't a name, but "The JeY" sounds really, really lame. I'd rather not be called "TJ".
...I'm pretty disappointed to find out my responses here consist of me quoting my own posts as an adequate response. Well, except one detail about the trains. I made a note about them in my reply, but left it at that. It's vague to represent the situations which are vague - the trains are too far off into the distance to make out the details: they're silhouettes. The context is the set of train tracks in front of you. That, and it was set-up for an elaborate joke I wanted to make but probably won't at this point.
Of course the fence-sit post went ignored for a while but a person without too many previous posts in the discussion brings it up, followed by two more people without too many previous posts, hardly bandwagoning as opposed to staking a really good claim. Perhaps I'm missing something fishy?
Three people vote for her. Her immediate response is to wonder if she's missing something fishy. There are two options here, given the context isn't fully clear. One, that there's something fishy with her accusers. That's oblique mudslinging. Two, that there's something fishy in her posts that she's missing.
Town shouldn't be wondering if there's something fishy in their posts that's being attacked.
The bolded: If Teh JeY is town, then why wouldn't she want to know what is fishy about her posts when she is not familiar with are meta?
I meant fishy in general. I wasn't exactly thinking of my own posts, but if you wanted to expand it to there that's possible.
---[How do I do that nifty horizontal line? My usual BBC methods are failing ;-;]---
I've been also following the Lennon plight, and now that there is a wide variety of flavors to choose from, I pick Strawberry!
Strawberry is a delicious, sweet, fruity flavor that is a bit more exotic than standard fruits and is actually sweeter most other sugary treats. It is liked more often than not and blends well with very tangy citrisus like Lime, but usually not much more than that. Basically his case seemed likable enough but there IS that chance of a really sour taste mixed with it. However, I picked Strawberry on its own, not blended, in light of its sweetness. The newb card certainly makes things difficult to clearly judge, but he seems to really be trying hard for his first game, and instead of making up stories, asked 'why'. Though what will he do next...
However, that paragraph talks about something 'missing' in my explanation, which doesn't make sense as an explanation if you think someone's scum.
Let me remind you that the word 'reactions' exists. I was genuine when I said that something I wanted to see was missing in your post, and being claimed that it doesn't make sense feels like you're ignoring the point. Someone recently... seemed much less applicable by saying what you seem to be missing.
Of course the fence-sit post went ignored for a while but a person without too many previous posts in the discussion brings it up, followed by two more people without too many previous posts, hardly bandwagoning as opposed to staking a really good claim. Perhaps I'm missing something fishy?
A second look at this post makes me dislike this.
Three people vote for her. Her immediate response is to wonder if she's missing something fishy. There are two options here, given the context isn't fully clear. One, that there's something fishy with her accusers. That's oblique mudslinging. Two, that there's something fishy in her posts that she's missing.
Town shouldn't be wondering if there's something fishy in their posts that's being attacked.
Though I'm patient, so I'm willing to see a little more motive before jumping on the bandwagon yet.
A quick check back shows that there's no hint as to which 'bandwagon' is being referred to. If it's Void's, then that's one vote (and one "intent to lynch"). If it's swishh, then that's also one vote. Given that 10's required to lynch, there's no 'escalation'. As well, there's absolutely no opinion expressed here.
If I must make an observation, Cythare is one aggressive cat. Rawr.
This, in turn, is all filler. Cythare is aggressive. Alright. But there's nothing as to what that means one way or the other.
That whole post is pretty much the definition of active lurking.
As for active lurking, I already admitted I was excited, but now that I think about it everything looks suspicious so there's no real use to saying that v_v Forgive me, it's been never since I last played this >_> I actually backspaced something regarding my post being nothing but filler in my most recent post. Posting filler doesn't get questions answered any faster however v_v
How does being excited transfer into active lurking?
Anywho, seems to me like there's two trains going in opposite directions on the same rail, about to inevitably collide. Which train to chase...
Vote Swishh, due to seeming a bit twitchy.
There are a few problems in this false dichotomy. First, there's no opinion noted on either "train". Both are considered perfectly valid.
This is behaviour of someone trying to get on a bandwagon, not trying to hunt scum.
So why not ask me about the trains? I'd be happy to provide. This isn't so much bandwagoning as it is a simplistic initial approach, scout easier-to-make slip-ups before grinding down to some really fun engages. Kind of like this one! =D My opinion on the trains is one could decimate and roll the other over or they could both be blown to bits in the collision.
I note that despite saying that you'd be "happy to provide", you still haven't said anything about the trains' targets. Nothing about if they're scummy, townie, or neither. Similarly, despite saying you're looking for easier slip-ups, the most you've said about that is that someone's "twitchy".
Also I just realized how I could've quoted someone who did a horizontal line to figure out how to do horizontal lines ;_;
But if i was to vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around a lot which might mean something
What might it mean that would merit your vote on him?
i changed my vote to Rhand because he asked about double scum voters which i found kinda werid
but i will probably change it as the day progress (ingame) i don't think anything has happened to merit my vote but i wouldn't be giving my opinion if i didn't vote so i voted for him
Uh, before we go further, editing posts in mafia is forbidden, lennon. I don't know how TCMod will handle that, but for anybody else following along this offense can and often does result in a modkill.
Related to the game, can you explain why asking about scum DVs is weird to you? I think it's a legitimate question for somebody new to the game.
1. I understand the power. I was wondering if having 2 votes clears Tom.
2. Which game is your first and what number game is this?
1. It does not, though I think the safer assumption is that he is town. He does appear to have just proven his ability, which is good. I'm still left wondering why he felt he had to claim it this early in the game especially considering that he's the good kind of double voter that can pretend to be vanilla until it's important.
@Wessel: Two reasons. One is that I like starting wagons, since that's how we'll actually get anything accomplished this game. Two is that I like to see what people will say to something like that (see: swishh).
Hm-hmm, yes. That's what I thought. A quick question- you would have been against a Void lynch at that point, right?
To the contrary, I would have been for a void lynch. I like starting wagons, as I stated, but I don't just pick at random, you know.
Whether I'm still for a void lynch, I am not sure. But he's acting like scumvoid right now, so probably.
I'm not going to pile on with a vote at this point, but I would like to hear more from Swishh regarding his comment.
EtR]Hmmm. I didn't vote because I didn't think it was really worthy of a vote. I didn't see the action as scummy but was interested in his thoughts from the statement.
And furthermore, I don't see these 2 posts jiving here from EtR. From starting your response to Vox with "Hmmm", it stood out as you being careful, and then you go on to say you didn't think it was worthy of a vote.
But I see your statement about not wanting to pile on "at this point" to mean that you didn't vote only because it would be seen as piling on, not because you didn't think it was unwarranted.
It was meant to mean that at this point I didn't see it necessary to vote, but depending on his response I may. I didn't see the comment as scummy but more curious. Being as this is Swishh's first game, I needed more before I considered placing a vote.
I'm not going to pile on with a vote at this point, but I would like to hear more from Swishh regarding his comment.
How is one vote in a 19-player game "piling on"?
So apparently, "pilling on" is a horrible choice of words. Noted. I again meant it more from the perspective that it wasn't something that I deemed vote worthy at that point in time.
The fact that you are refusing to comment on your vote, especially after someone asked you specifically to comment on his vote for you, makes you look scummy. You are also quick to get defensive, nobody is really getting on you're back. Now what would you have to be defensive about?
Unvote Vote Lennonmint
Unvote Vote: Anaklusmos
Anak is an experienced player here on this site, but he assumes that this post could only come from scum. That is not a town mind set. He's going for low hanging fruit and hoping it sticks.
This is a good catch by Void. It does feel like going after low hanging fruit.
Of course the fence-sit post went ignored for a while but a person without too many previous posts in the discussion brings it up, followed by two more people without too many previous posts, hardly bandwagoning as opposed to staking a really good claim. Perhaps I'm missing something fishy?
A second look at this post makes me dislike this.
Three people vote for her. Her immediate response is to wonder if she's missing something fishy. There are two options here, given the context isn't fully clear. One, that there's something fishy with her accusers. That's oblique mudslinging. Two, that there's something fishy in her posts that she's missing.
Town shouldn't be wondering if there's something fishy in their posts that's being attacked.
While it isn't implied which one she means, you've never received several votes as town and wondered what was so fishy about your posts that you received said votes?
Anak is an experienced player here on this site, but he assumes that this post could only come from scum. That is not a town mind set. He's going for low hanging fruit and hoping it sticks.
You're putting words into my mouth. I say that somethings he did looked scummy, and voted him for it. That doesn't mean I think he is scum, it means he did something I wasn't a fan of, and I wanted to push him a bit to see his reactions to being voted again. That way, I would be able to discern if he was town that just happened to do something that I didn't like, or he was scum that continued to act shady. Applying pressure via voting is not something you only can do against scum, it's not like he was close to being lynched at that point anyway.
For someone who is also experienced, watching me do that should be a pretty easy indicator that I'm pressuring him to see how he responds. You are the pot calling the kettle black, as you are only seeing my vote and reasoning against him as scummy, not bothering to think of a way my vote makes sense from a town perspective.
Calling me out for doing something, then doing that yourself? IGMEOY. OMGUS
1. I understand the power. I was wondering if having 2 votes clears Tom.
2. Which game is your first and what number game is this?
1. It does not, though I think the safer assumption is that he is town. He does appear to have just proven his ability, which is good. I'm still left wondering why he felt he had to claim it this early in the game especially considering that he's the good kind of double voter that can pretend to be vanilla until it's important.
As opposed to the bad kind of double voter that _______ ?
@rick: my first game is unseen university. That started at about the same time as I replaced into innistrad. I have also replaced into the vanilla mini 2.
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
Basically, low hanging fruit is the easiest one to pick. In this case, I mean that if Captain T is scum, it appears that he is going after what would be the easiest mislynch.
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
Basically, low hanging fruit is the easiest one to pick. In this case, I mean that if Captain T is scum, it appears that he is going after what would be the easiest mislynch.
I see. I share that idea on captain t (and everyone else who is voting for lennon for that matter).
I don't see it on void voting for Anak. How is that an easy mislynch? Easy implies that the wagon will gather votes without too much pushing, right?
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
Basically, low hanging fruit is the easiest one to pick. In this case, I mean that if Captain T is scum, it appears that he is going after what would be the easiest mislynch.
I see. I share that idea on captain t (and everyone else who is voting for lennon for that matter).
I don't see it on void voting for Anak. How is that an easy mislynch? Easy implies that the wagon will gather votes without too much pushing, right?
Void was calling out Anak for going after Lennon - I was agreeing with Void's conclusion that Anak was targeting a new player for what could be an easy mislynch.
I saw Lennon's reaction to Void's little bit of pressure scummy. I wouldn't say town couldn't react that way either, though... and after my vote to get more reactions out of Lennon, I'm happy with how he responded. He was much more calm. Unvote: Lennon
I think it's far too soon to put any alignment to Lennonmint's posts. It's the sign of a new player, but that doesn't make him scum yet. I first want to see more of him before I will be able to make a better assessment of him.
I'm not going to pile on with a vote at this point, but I would like to hear more from Swishh regarding his comment.
EtR]Hmmm. I didn't vote because I didn't think it was really worthy of a vote. I didn't see the action as scummy but was interested in his thoughts from the statement.
And furthermore, I don't see these 2 posts jiving here from EtR. From starting your response to Vox with "Hmmm", it stood out as you being careful, and then you go on to say you didn't think it was worthy of a vote.
But I see your statement about not wanting to pile on "at this point" to mean that you didn't vote only because it would be seen as piling on, not because you didn't think it was unwarranted.
It was meant to mean that at this point I didn't see it necessary to vote, but depending on his response I may. I didn't see the comment as scummy but more curious. Being as this is Swishh's first game, I needed more before I considered placing a vote.
I'm not going to pile on with a vote at this point, but I would like to hear more from Swishh regarding his comment.
How is one vote in a 19-player game "piling on"?
So apparently, "pilling on" is a horrible choice of words. Noted. I again meant it more from the perspective that it wasn't something that I deemed vote worthy at that point in time.
[QUOTE=Lennonmint80;/comments/10873036]I dont think any thing big enough has happened for my vote to be needed im sorry if "skittish" this is my first game of mafia
Seriously guys? We have someone who avoids giving analyzable content, and when pressured about it, plays the noob card? Let's lynch Lennon.
Alliteration ftw.
This is another example of going after someone that is low fruit.
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
Basically, low hanging fruit is the easiest one to pick. In this case, I mean that if Captain T is scum, it appears that he is going after what would be the easiest mislynch.
I see. I share that idea on captain t (and everyone else who is voting for lennon for that matter).
I don't see it on void voting for Anak. How is that an easy mislynch? Easy implies that the wagon will gather votes without too much pushing, right?
I just want to get this clear. You all think Lennon is just a noob that's flailing? I mean, I can accept that I might be wrong, it was just that all his reactions seemed... off to me.
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
Basically, low hanging fruit is the easiest one to pick. In this case, I mean that if Captain T is scum, it appears that he is going after what would be the easiest mislynch.
I see. I share that idea on captain t (and everyone else who is voting for lennon for that matter).
I don't see it on void voting for Anak. How is that an easy mislynch? Easy implies that the wagon will gather votes without too much pushing, right?
Void was calling out Anak for going after Lennon - I was agreeing with Void's conclusion that Anak was targeting a new player for what could be an easy mislynch.
I just want to get this clear. You all think Lennon is just a noob that's flailing? I mean, I can accept that I might be wrong, it was just that all his reactions seemed... off to me.
Yes, that's exactly what I think, and I'm very wary of those that jumped on this easy wagon.
I dont think any thing big enough has happened for my vote to be needed im sorry if "skittish" this is my first game of mafia
Seriously guys? We have someone who avoids giving analyzable content, and when pressured about it, plays the noob card? Let's lynch Lennon.
Alliteration ftw.
In this post, you quote Lennonmint's 155, but you fail to mention his 156, in which he provides some content. Why did you ignore that, if you are attacking him for a lack of content?
Not a big problem... I just felt a need to tab away from this page whenever I thought someone was walking past.
You know, there's also an option in your User Control Panel (accessed through going through 'Quick Links' in the top bar, then clicking 'Edit Options') where you can auto-hide every signature (and when you click on the '__________' the signature is revealed). Then you don't have the problem of having to look at Rhand's signature image by default, while others can freely enjoy looking at it without first having to open the spoiler.
Hey, thanks! That's a lot better. And now I don't have to be scared by zombie Betty White whenever I wander into mod territory.
Add me to the list of people who don't think this should have been revealed yet. A provable ability that is more often town? That you don't really have incentive to use yet, since we'll want consensus on our lynches? That should have been kept in reserve.
Well, look at it this way. Say you are Cythare and scum, and you are in a, let's say, 5-man scum team. 4 at the least, in a 19 player setup. I think it's highly unlikely that scumCythare would backpedal the way he did if he knew he was part of a 4 or 5-man scum team. He would have been much more inclined to say something along the lines of 'Of course not, Tom, don't be daft for thinking I only think there are three scum!'. ScumCythare would almost certainly not have first made a mistake about the amount of scum in this game, and then when called out on it, would have done a suspicious action by backpedalling on it.
Of course, it's *possible* that Cythare all feigned this and is in fact a brilliant mastermind who would know at least one person would make the observation and deduction I made. But I think it's highly improbable. So for that reason, I think Cythare is probably town.
I disagree with this line of reasoning. Tactical "slips" can be very useful to scum.
Plus, I'm still waiting on Cythare to respond to me on other matters...
To the contrary, I would have been for a void lynch. I like starting wagons, as I stated, but I don't just pick at random, you know.
Whether I'm still for a void lynch, I am not sure. But he's acting like scumvoid right now, so probably.
Okay, wait. You voted Void for the first time in a post where you also said "RVS isn't over", which makes me doubt that you had a real reason for voting him. In your next post you propose lynching him, with no reason given. Your response to Wessel seems to indicate that you tried to start a wagon to check for followers and reactions. And now you're claiming that you had a reason to vote him, and that you believe he is acting like Scum!Void.
If your position really is that you believe this to be Scum!Void, I'm going to need you to back it up with something. Because so far you've done the equivalent of zooming around the office in a swivel chair while laughing at people who try to follow you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Seriously guys? We have someone who avoids giving analyzable content, and when pressured about it, plays the noob card? Let's lynch Lennon.
Alliteration ftw.
Is such a bad vote followed by OMGUS something that often comes from a town mindset?
The pressure didn't bring her off balance. The posting of her whole thought process makes what she types very hard to fake.
I don't like the votes on lennon. The noobcard is not a scumtell. A town noob has just as many reasons to say he has no experience as a scum noob.
Captain Tzymo is quick to "gotcha" him for that and adds that lennon is refusing to give content, clearly ignoring lennon's next post where he says he is suspicious of swishh.
[B]vote: captain tzymo[/vote]
You think "But if i was too vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around alot which might mean something" is content? He fence-sits, and then says that swishh is fooling around. How? How is swishh fooling around? I provided quotes of Lennon's, showing his weak play. And the noob card is just icing on the cake.
Yes, I do think it's content. You say he gives nothing to analyse, but you are analysing it.
And no, 'we' and similar words are not a natural phrasing in that context.
Absent explanation, a vote generally means that you think someone's scum.
However, that paragraph talks about something 'missing' in my explanation, which doesn't make sense as an explanation if you think someone's scum.
First, how is site meta relevant in this case?
The second is more complicated, and I misworded it slightly. Take the original phrase, "Perhaps I'm missing something fishy?" From this, it can be inferred that there could be something fishy she's not missing. Or, rather, that she believes that there could be something fishy in her post.
It's a guilty mindset. Consider: would you be wondering if there's something scummy in your post?
How is the noob card scummy?
How is weak play scummy, given the noob card?
Specifically, what makes him more likely scum than a town noob?
@Cyouni, please elaborate.
You were asking him no questions whatsoever in the post you voted him.
If you want to push someone, you have to give him things to respond to.
My argument is that you voted him for bad reasons without inquiring further.
EBP: This will apply to Wessel's question as well (basically the same).
The noob card isn't scummy. Weak play isn't scummy. What's scummy (and weak play) are posts that add nothing to the discussion. Look at how he responds to Void.
We got a comment about swishh as his first real thing about the game, and that was anemic. By avoiding content, he can avoid being scrutinized for inconsistencies. Add to that when he does get scrutinized, it's "I'm a noob" with a quick add-on of a player, rather than "here, let me tell you how I feel about some other players".
The noob card in this context is a way of explaining away weaknesses in arguments, without actually covering those weaknesses.
My vote on him was RVS. I've found a reason to leave it there.
I'm going to be slightly less active in this game for a while given that I replaced into a different game just recently and rereading that is taking up time. I'll reread and give more substantial comments when I have time.
You're putting words into my mouth. I say that somethings he did looked scummy, and voted him for it. That doesn't mean I think he is scum, it means he did something I wasn't a fan of, and I wanted to push him a bit to see his reactions to being voted again. That way, I would be able to discern if he was town that just happened to do something that I didn't like, or he was scum that continued to act shady. Applying pressure via voting is not something you only can do against scum, it's not like he was close to being lynched at that point anyway.
For someone who is also experienced, watching me do that should be a pretty easy indicator that I'm pressuring him to see how he responds. You are the pot calling the kettle black, as you are only seeing my vote and reasoning against him as scummy, not bothering to think of a way my vote makes sense from a town perspective.
Calling me out for doing something, then doing that yourself? IGMEOY.
I'm stupid. For some reason I thought there were more actual votes against him than just yours. I was actually completely wrong here. Point retracted.
Experienced player != good player. I wanted to pressure him to see how he responded to it. Doesn't mean I went about that in the best way, but if I had given a townie rationale for that, then he would be able to float my townie reasoning for what he did, and the whole looking for reactions thing would have been rendered fruitless.
You haven't seen too many games where I make bad moves? I do it all the time, you just aren't looking hard enough. About lurking, I never have been one to post very frequently, sometimes it spikes up for a couple days but usually I post once a day or so. So, in general I have a more lurky playstyle. That game specifically, I pushed it a little further, mostly because the town was not calling me out on it (from what I remember, its been a while) and it was making it very easy for me to avoid pressure through the whole game. So, just because I lurked that one game as scum and won, doesn't mean every time I lurk I am scum, I do it every game.
Now, what I got from Lennon. He is nervous, in his first game, and someone voted him that is experienced, without reasoning. Instead of freaking out, he asks for reasoning about that vote. When I vote him, he again stays calm, doesn't get any more defensive, and tries to find someone he doesn't like and reasoning for it. Sure the reasoning is wishy washy, but that's not the point. The point is he is trying, and for someone in their first game, that is what matters. Combined with taking votes in stride and not getting ultra-defensive, I believe that Lennon is just a newb townie.
Unvote
Swishh is also looking more townie. Responded well to me, is now scumhunting and posting content. Will be reading more and have another post up tonight.
I didn't know, that's why I asked. That's what I suspected, saying as he specifically called them the scum team.
I saw Lennon's reaction to Void's little bit of pressure scummy. I wouldn't say town couldn't react that way either, though... and after my vote to get more reactions out of Lennon, I'm happy with how he responded. He was much more calm. Unvote: Lennon
@second paragraph: Why would scum "never even think twice about making a mistake about there possibly being 3 scum"? Why couldn't Cythare be scum who cleverly claims to not know the number of scum on the scum team?
--
I'm leaving my vote on EtR until I have reason to unvote.. I want to hear more content from him. I still don't like how careful he was being.
For those confused, I'm a doublevoter.
--
Mod: prod killjoy, it's been 2 days
Does that mean that you don't think people can't still have fun after the game starts?
This popped out at me while I was reading. Good questions. Town++.
Given that you know where RS was coming from with this accusation now, do you still think this action shifty?
Is it because no matter how hard anyone tries, if you wanna annoy people... you will? lol jk.
I lol'd too.
I C. You(ni) do not want me to make puns either?
Why is Anak a better vote than any of the others you've been questioning?
I suppose you should prove it now since you claimed it. Can you do that for us please?
If this reasoning is true, then why didn't you claim immediately. I guess my question is why did you choose then to reveal it? Why not earlier, if you believe what you say?
Also, now proving it would be cool, as KJ said.
Why would being scrutinized for completely avoiding content be better than the possibility of having inconsistencies?
Because there's nothing that anyone can point to and say "This is not town mindset." It's an overall behavior, so rather than say "Look at this post, it's bad for this reason. This post, it's also bad for another reason. And finally, this post has this thing wrong with it." I end up having to go "His behavior is not town for this reason." Alternatively, look at my posts. You might be able to find things wrong with individual posts and say "Here's what's wrong with this post, and the reason this post is bad, and finally this post. Also, he's aggressive." Does that help explain it?
I had no reason to.
I should still be voting for EtR, so Vote: Tom
I may change my vote to someone else though before the next vote count.
Is there something that prevents you from voting the same person twice?
2. How many games have you played before?
Bolding emphasis is mine.
The only thing to point toward is the avoiding content, rather than any specific posts. There's a LOT LESS that you can end up using for or against a player who is posting fluff.
2. I have yet to finish my first one.
1. I understand the power. I was wondering if having 2 votes clears Tom.
Oops. Mannerisms* Actually.
Anywho really hate those days where you wake up feeling miserable and it never goes away. I also learned that going to the dentist early in the morning followed immediately by a haircut while sick is a terrible idea @_@ Feelin' good today though~
Last OOC comment of the day, you can just call me JeY in any manner of capitalization as you'd like s'long as you spell it with an 'e' >_> 'Teh' isn't a name, but "The JeY" sounds really, really lame. I'd rather not be called "TJ".
Let's get down to business.
...I'm pretty disappointed to find out my responses here consist of me quoting my own posts as an adequate response. Well, except one detail about the trains. I made a note about them in my reply, but left it at that. It's vague to represent the situations which are vague - the trains are too far off into the distance to make out the details: they're silhouettes. The context is the set of train tracks in front of you. That, and it was set-up for an elaborate joke I wanted to make but probably won't at this point.
Let's pretend I said yes. That way I could get reactions from more than just you.
I meant fishy in general. I wasn't exactly thinking of my own posts, but if you wanted to expand it to there that's possible.
---[How do I do that nifty horizontal line? My usual BBC methods are failing ;-;]---
I've been also following the Lennon plight, and now that there is a wide variety of flavors to choose from, I pick Strawberry!
Strawberry is a delicious, sweet, fruity flavor that is a bit more exotic than standard fruits and is actually sweeter most other sugary treats. It is liked more often than not and blends well with very tangy citrisus like Lime, but usually not much more than that. Basically his case seemed likable enough but there IS that chance of a really sour taste mixed with it. However, I picked Strawberry on its own, not blended, in light of its sweetness. The newb card certainly makes things difficult to clearly judge, but he seems to really be trying hard for his first game, and instead of making up stories, asked 'why'. Though what will he do next...
---[da da da-da! Horizontal Line Power!]---
Let me remind you that the word 'reactions' exists. I was genuine when I said that something I wanted to see was missing in your post, and being claimed that it doesn't make sense feels like you're ignoring the point. Someone recently... seemed much less applicable by saying what you seem to be missing.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
Also I just realized how I could've quoted someone who did a horizontal line to figure out how to do horizontal lines ;_;
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
Manders talked with me. She has something going on irl, so she will post as soon as possible.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
i changed my vote to Rhand because he asked about double scum voters which i found kinda werid
but i will probably change it as the day progress (ingame) i don't think anything has happened to merit my vote but i wouldn't be giving my opinion if i didn't vote so i voted for him
Related to the game, can you explain why asking about scum DVs is weird to you? I think it's a legitimate question for somebody new to the game.
Captain Tzymo (1) Rhand
Lennonmint80 (3) Captian Tzymo, Robroy, Anaklusmos,
Void (1) Rick Santorum,
Swishh (3) Cythare, Voxxicus, Lord of Tresserhorn
Anaklusmos (2) Killjoy, Void
Rhand (1) Lennonmint80
Tom (1) Tom
Cyouni (2) Swishh, Teh JeY
Teh JeY (2) Cyouni, Alphainsidious
EtR (1) Tom
Not Voting (2) EtR, MandersHex, Wessel
@Voxicous: Got it.
@Lennonmint: Expect a pm in a second. Remember, NO EDITING YOUR POSTS!!!!
The GJ way path to no lynching:
1. It does not, though I think the safer assumption is that he is town. He does appear to have just proven his ability, which is good. I'm still left wondering why he felt he had to claim it this early in the game especially considering that he's the good kind of double voter that can pretend to be vanilla until it's important.
To the contrary, I would have been for a void lynch. I like starting wagons, as I stated, but I don't just pick at random, you know.
Whether I'm still for a void lynch, I am not sure. But he's acting like scumvoid right now, so probably.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
It was meant to mean that at this point I didn't see it necessary to vote, but depending on his response I may. I didn't see the comment as scummy but more curious. Being as this is Swishh's first game, I needed more before I considered placing a vote.
So apparently, "pilling on" is a horrible choice of words. Noted. I again meant it more from the perspective that it wasn't something that I deemed vote worthy at that point in time.
This is a good catch by Void. It does feel like going after low hanging fruit.
While it isn't implied which one she means, you've never received several votes as town and wondered what was so fishy about your posts that you received said votes?
This is another example of going after someone that is low fruit.
As opposed to the bad kind of double voter that _______ ?
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
Basically, low hanging fruit is the easiest one to pick. In this case, I mean that if Captain T is scum, it appears that he is going after what would be the easiest mislynch.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I see. I share that idea on captain t (and everyone else who is voting for lennon for that matter).
I don't see it on void voting for Anak. How is that an easy mislynch? Easy implies that the wagon will gather votes without too much pushing, right?
Void was calling out Anak for going after Lennon - I was agreeing with Void's conclusion that Anak was targeting a new player for what could be an easy mislynch.
I just want to get this clear. You all think Lennon is just a noob that's flailing? I mean, I can accept that I might be wrong, it was just that all his reactions seemed... off to me.
That clears it up.
Yes, that's exactly what I think, and I'm very wary of those that jumped on this easy wagon.
In this post, you quote Lennonmint's 155, but you fail to mention his 156, in which he provides some content. Why did you ignore that, if you are attacking him for a lack of content?
Hey, thanks! That's a lot better. And now I don't have to be scared by zombie Betty White whenever I wander into mod territory.
Request withdrawn, Rhand.
Add me to the list of people who don't think this should have been revealed yet. A provable ability that is more often town? That you don't really have incentive to use yet, since we'll want consensus on our lynches? That should have been kept in reserve.
I disagree with this line of reasoning. Tactical "slips" can be very useful to scum.
Plus, I'm still waiting on Cythare to respond to me on other matters...
Well, Lennonmint still doesn't have an avatar... but I have other windmills to tilt at. Unvote, vote: Cythare.
(Also: I think "Captain" is spelled wrong.)
Okay, wait. You voted Void for the first time in a post where you also said "RVS isn't over", which makes me doubt that you had a real reason for voting him. In your next post you propose lynching him, with no reason given. Your response to Wessel seems to indicate that you tried to start a wagon to check for followers and reactions. And now you're claiming that you had a reason to vote him, and that you believe he is acting like Scum!Void.
If your position really is that you believe this to be Scum!Void, I'm going to need you to back it up with something. Because so far you've done the equivalent of zooming around the office in a swivel chair while laughing at people who try to follow you.