[B]Unvote, Vote: AlphaInsiduious[/B] for that baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad vote
Is this serious, or did I miss some joke?
This feels sort of genuine, armed with the knowledge that LoT and AI were scum. As in, I have trouble seeing Tom also being scum. Doesn't necessarily preclude Tom from being a neutral, admittedly - but no interaction is going to solidify that as a possibility.
Though I'm patient, so I'm willing to see a little more motive before jumping on the bandwagon yet.
If I must make an observation, Cythare is one aggressive cat. Rawr.
Cythare/Teh_JeY interaction. Pointing out aggression but not doing anything about it is a thing. Maybe. I dunno. Gut tells me that it's a point in Cythare/Dan's favor, though.
My name is based off a random paper i found when i was 6 i was trying to come up with an rpg name so my mom looked at some random papers and we got lennonmint its been my name for everything ever since then
Do you have nothing else to say about the game?
your quick to jump on my back its the first day
Void/Lennon interaction. I can see this as being Void as town or Void as scum. Not conclusive, just worth noting.
[B]And here's the infamous 3-man scum team quote.[/B]
Bolding and enlarging it for posterity. I mean...there's the fact that he's /wrong/ about all three, but early in day one that's not precisely damning. I don't really know what to make of it. I want to write him off as town for this alone, but it's just one drop in the bucket - there are other interactions that make me go ergh later on.
For the record, here was his response to the 3-man scumteam thing:
Quote from Cythare »
I've been drinking and spaced out how many ppl were in this game. They're still all potential candidates at this early juncture, and have stood out more than others.
The fact that you are refusing to comment on your vote, especially after someone asked you specifically to comment on his vote for you, makes you look scummy. You are also quick to get defensive, nobody is really getting on you're back. Now what would you have to be defensive about?
[B]Unvote Vote Lennonmint[/B]
[B]Unvote[/B]
[B]Vote: Anaklusmos[/B]
Anak is an experienced player here on this site, but he assumes that this post could only come from scum. That is not a town mind set. He's going for low hanging fruit and hoping it sticks.
That he seems stuck on something that appears innocuous and is now calling Lennon out for not responding to it.
I've been drinking and spaced out how many ppl were in this game. They're still all potential candidates at this early juncture, and have stood out more than others.
Who is the "they" you refer to here? I'm confused.
"They" refers to the three people I noted before - RobRoy, swishh and EtR.
----------------
I'm interested to see Teh Jay's responses to AI, Cyouni and Rhand, but I'm not seeing it yet myself.
Cytharepost - of note is the chainsaw defense of Lennon, and 'not seeing' the attack on Teh_JeY.
I'm actually liking Teh JeY's posts so far. She's been posting a lot, and I'm not getting the feeling that she is taking much time to consider her posts before throwing them out there. That strikes me as more of a townie mindset, or a very comfortable scum. The wildcard in this is that she obviously has outside experience.
/barn this. Teh JeY's (May I shorten this to TJ for easier typing?) reminds me of my play when I first started playing. This is not to say the Teh JeY is certainly town or scum, but the type of posting I am seeing makes reading Teh JeY much easier.
Of course the fence-sit post went ignored for a while but a person without too many previous posts in the discussion brings it up, followed by two more people without too many previous posts, hardly bandwagoning as opposed to staking a really good claim. Perhaps I'm missing something fishy?
Three people vote for her. Her immediate response is to wonder if she's missing something fishy. There are two options here, given the context isn't fully clear. One, that there's something fishy with her accusers. That's oblique mudslinging. Two, that there's something fishy in her posts that she's missing.
[B]Town shouldn't be wondering if there's something fishy in their posts that's being attacked[/B].
The bolded: If Teh JeY is town, then why wouldn't she want to know what is fishy about her posts when she is not familiar with are meta?[/QUOTE]
Void defending Teh_JeY. Kind of. Or at least approving?
(Note: Still can't believe Kill Joy was town. Seriously. He's twigging my scumdar like mad even on this re-read, knowing that he's town)
Quote from Wessel »
Well, look at it this way. Say you are Cythare and scum, and you are in a, let's say, 5-man scum team. 4 at the least, in a 19 player setup. I think it's highly unlikely that scumCythare would backpedal the way he did if he knew he was part of a 4 or 5-man scum team. He would have been much more inclined to say something along the lines of 'Of course not, Tom, don't be daft for thinking I only think there are three scum!'. ScumCythare would almost certainly not have first made a mistake about the amount of scum in this game, and then when called out on it, would have done a suspicious action by backpedalling on it.
Of course, it's *possible* that Cythare all feigned this and is in fact a brilliant mastermind who would know at least one person would make the observation and deduction I made. But I think it's highly improbable. So for that reason, I think Cythare is probably town.
Here's a post from Wessel that explains the Cythare 3-man-scumteam-slip thing a bit more. Yeah, yeah, I keep harping on it. But it's hard to shake.
Of course the fence-sit post went ignored for a while but a person without too many previous posts in the discussion brings it up, followed by two more people without too many previous posts, hardly bandwagoning as opposed to staking a really good claim. Perhaps I'm missing something fishy?
Three people vote for her. Her immediate response is to wonder if she's missing something fishy. There are two options here, given the context isn't fully clear. One, that there's something fishy with her accusers. That's oblique mudslinging. Two, that there's something fishy in her posts that she's missing.
[B]Town shouldn't be wondering if there's something fishy in their posts that's being attacked[/B].
The bolded: If Teh JeY is town, then why wouldn't she want to know what is fishy about her posts when she is not familiar with are meta?
First, how is site meta relevant in this case?
The second is more complicated, and I misworded it slightly. Take the original phrase, "Perhaps I'm missing something fishy?" From this, it can be inferred that there could be something fishy she's not missing. Or, rather, that she believes that there could be something fishy in her post.
It's a guilty mindset. Consider: would you be wondering if there's something scummy in your post?
Do you remember Basic #64 Stuff I Like Mafia Modded by Emo Pinata? The game was created to bring players over from Px2 so they could see what are Mafia Community was like. There play on this site was not very good and came across rather scummy most of the time. It's simply that their meta on Px2 varies in comparison to MTGS. And since Teh JeY comes from another site I would believe their meta to be different from ours and therefore Teh JeY may not believe her posts are fishy.
While I get the point you are coming too I don't see this as just a scum thought process.
I just want to get this clear. You all think Lennon is just a noob that's flailing? I mean, I can accept that I might be wrong, it was just that all his reactions seemed... off to me.
I'm not reading Lennon as flailing so much as I am reading Lennon as a complete and utter newb. I have not seen anything from Lennon that points towards him being scum or town at the moment.
Voidpost...more defense of Teh_JeY. Interaction with LoT, where he says he wishes he had two votes? Hm. Possible distancing.
I find the last part interesting too - he's attacking people that are attacking Lennon, but doesn't think he's town? The whole premise of his vote on Anak at the time was that he was attacking low hanging fruit (Lennon). Ugh.
And then the Anak scumchat 'slip' happened and hm. Yeah I'm not quoting all this. Might be worth a re-read if you need a refresher on it. It does read kind of oddly, like he's both defending and attacking Anak at the same time.
Quote from Captain_Tyzmo »
Void, here you have Anak, Lennon and Rick Santorum as scum. Who else would you peg as their buddies? Finding all of the scum Day 1 would be awesome.
Probbbbbably a point in Void's favor, here? Reeks of scum on town buddying. I think. **** it's late and I'm tired.
Quote from Seppel »
Suddenly, a large, muscular human being with long blonde flowing hair and wearing a karate gi floats down into the center of the crowd, blinding them with his glowing aura.
His voice booms from all directions, "I am Hitler, creator of all that is known, and slayer of evil. Far too long has it been since I have restored balance to my world."
Hitler grabs his sword, God's *****, and holds it high.
"Enough! Captain Tzymo, you are dead!"
[B]Execute Captain Tzymo[/B]
Hitler lowers his blade with tremendous speed, slicing Tzymo in half.
Everyone remains in shock of what has happened. Blood dissipates from Hitler's blade as he sheathes it. Then, he floats back toward the sky. It is evident now that he provides the world's daylight.
Just quoting this because it's awesome and deserves to be quoted.
I don’t think any thing big enough has happened for my vote to be needed I’m sorry if "skittish" this is my first game of mafia
Seriously guys? We have someone who avoids giving analyzable content, and when pressured about it, plays the noob card? Let's lynch Lennon.
Alliteration ftw.
Captain Tyzmo goes after an easy target here, but never places a vote, prior to the above post, against Lennon despite saying “Let’s lynch Lennon.” Without the vote being there this looks more like an attempt to coach Lennon into providing content. Considering Lennon’s next two posts that say (paraphrased) “I don’t see anyone worthy of my vote” and “If I were to vote for anyone it would be swish for fooling around there might be a lead.” Makes it look like Lennon was dismissing Captain Tyzmo’s post and continued on his own thoughts. This has me believing that Lennon is town with how he reacted to Captain Tyzmo.
[B]unvote[/B] Teh JeY. I think I misread her enthusiasm for nervousness.
The pressure didn't bring her off balance. The posting of her whole thought process makes what she types very hard to fake.
I don't like the votes on Lennon. The noobcard is not a scumtell. A town noob has just as many reasons to say he has no experience as a scum noob.
Captain Tyzmo is quick to "gotcha" him for that and adds that Lennon is refusing to give content, clearly ignoring Lennon’s next post where he says he is suspicious of swishh.
[B]vote: captain tyzmo[/vote]
You think "But if i was too vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around alot which might mean something" is content? He fence-sits, and then says that swishh is fooling around. How? How is swishh fooling around? I provided quotes of Lennon's, showing his weak play. And the noob card is just icing on the cake.
You think "But if i was too vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around a lot which might mean something" is content? He fence-sits, and then says that swishh is fooling around. How? How is swishh fooling around? I provided quotes of Lennon's, showing his weak play. And the noob card is just icing on the cake.
Yes, I do think it's content. You say he gives nothing to analyze, but you are analyzing it.
So your argument is that my push on Lennon is bad, because although he's posting fluff, he's posting fluff?
This exchange between Rhand and Captain Tyzmo puts Lennon into my town category and also puts Rhand into my leaning town category for his reasoning used on why Captain Tyzmo’s reads are faulty.
Voidpost on Tyzmo/Lennon, sticking Lennon into town category. Worth noting, even if it's hardly conclusive, since pretty much everyone wrote Lennon off as town due to the interactions.
Can you give your thoughts on the following players?
Kill-joy
Cyouni
Lord of Tresserhorn
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
No. Come back when you have something useful to ask me.
[B]This is why Rick is town.[/B] Extreme lack of self-preservation or self-awareness. The back and forth continues for a while, and had me in a rage for a bit. I was pretty convinced there were multiple scum in that list, and wanted his thoughts on them. And yeah. Blatant refusal, especially when there turned out to actually be two scum in that bunch is just not a mafia mindset. And I can't fathom it as a neutral mind-set either. Lack of self-awareness, etc.
Don't wait on me to lynch. I'll gladly take night to reread.
But if you don't think Seppel is obvtown, you're doing it wrong. He needs to be the doc protect tonight, asuming we have one.
EVERYONE PANIC G_D IS DIRECTING TOWN PRS!!!!!!!!
Bluh. Kind of dislike everything about this post in retrospect. Especially given EtR was close to being hammered. Was at L-1 at one point there. And then DOCS ON SEPPEL as 2 other people get shot by the scum team. Mrgle.
You are very eager to know why you are name-claiming, but not interested enough to refuse Seppel. Why are you so interested in appeasing the request of one person?
Because the request [B]came from town[/B], so complying is helping a townie to further their understanding of the game. That can only help the town. I'm eager to know why simply because it bothers me that people are seeing things that I'm not, and it's a bit frustrating to me that I can't figure it out.
The request for a name claim came from Seppel. Seeing as Seppel entered the game by vigging scum, and scum that nobody was looking into at the moment at that, I would say that Seppel is as close to confirmed town as we're going to get at the moment. So at this point I take a request from Seppel as a request from town.
Because Seppel killed scum you believe him to be town. While the razor does point in that direction Seppel is far from confirmed town.
Would you please list your top suspects for me?
Annnnd nevermind. Kind of. I dunno, I don't like this post. Just the way it's worded feels super forced.
These last few posts from EtR feel so sincere, I'm a little afraid of the outcome of this lynch. But in a sense, EtR himself is keeping my vote on him. He's right in saying that we have no other clear suspects. Certainly nobody with a great case made against them. The only thing in the past few posts from EtR that I don't like is him saying that it would be okay if I died, but I think that's just because I don't want to die. I'm not sure what my point really is here, as I've been drinking a bit tonight, but mostly I just wanted to put it out there that the last few posts from EtR are making me a bit nervous.
Would you mind explaining why you don't want to die without revealing information about your role?
That's not why I don't want to die. I don't want to die because I'm enjoying the game. If I were brought to claim-range I would obviously claim.
Also, I'd like to make it clear that I still believe EtR is scum. It's only in his last few posts that he's felt less scummy. I do however still support this lynch.
Uhm... I added the role information at the end of the question so that you didn't mistakenly give out any role information. I did not say nor mean that your role was the reason why you didn't want to die... I'm not sure you purposely misrepresented what I said or you truly believe that I meant your role was the reason for being However, you're response was more telling about you than what I was expecting.
You just went from calling Eron's post "sincere" to "less scummy than before". And you also said "I'm a little afraid of the outcome of this lynch" which shows you believe Eron to be town in that statement, but then say "I support his lynch". You've also waffled quiet a bit on Eron as well.
[B]Unvote[/B]
[B]Vote: LoT[/B]
Please list your top suspects with reasoning.
But then this is goodpost. Admittedly it follows myself and Cyouni talking about how they disliked LoT's posts, so it's not exactly the first thing mentioned on the situation - but it's still the first vote cast on him at a time when the EtR wagon could still be pushed through. Decent point in Void's favor.
Rhand's town, Anak deserves some pressure, WESSEL. STAHP THAT. THE WALLS OF TEXT. STHAP!
Swishh, Teh Jey probably both inexperienced town. [B]Cythare looks midly scummy with responses to RR (oh...)[/B]
I'm gonna have to actually take notes. Stupid big games.
Calls Teh JeY town. Shocker. [B]Also, the bolded in his quote is something that I anecdotally wanted to point out (Anecdotally is a word. Shh). I've historically found that people that mention how scummy their precursor was upon replacing in tend to be scum a shockingly high percentage of the time. It's like they're trying to distance themselves from their prior selves actions. [/B] I don't have anything to back that up, but it'd be an interesting experiment for someone with lots of free time to comb back over completed games and look for catch up posts by replacements. I suspect there'd be a high correlation!
Quote from Tom »
The real analysis is why I have Seppel leaning town. His killing of CaptainT (who was on the radar) is almost completely null.
Oh, hey, something from Tom that makes me go 'wat'. Killing scum being almost completely null is 'wat'. I'm sure he answers this in a few posts, but still. Dislike.
Hm.
Quote from Cyouni »
[B]If Tresserhorn flips scum, there's a part where both he and Tyzmo react in a panicked fashion to the suggested lynching of Void. Due to that, I wanted to hold off on Void until I could see Tresserhorn's flip[/B].
Worth noting. Also worth noting is the fact that Cyouni was shot Night One. WiFOM, blah, blah, blah.
Also, Tom answers the 'confirmed town' thing wrt Seppel reasonably well in #523. Mostly. It was still weird.
The request for a name claim came from Seppel. Seeing as Seppel entered the game by vigging scum, and scum that nobody was looking into at the moment at that, I would say that Seppel is as close to confirmed town as we're going to get at the moment. So at this point I take a request from Seppel as a request from town.
Because Seppel killed scum you believe him to be town. While the razor does point in that direction Seppel is far from confirmed town.
Would you please list your top suspects for me?
[B]Unvote, vote Void[/B]. The way this is worded, you seem to be trying to paint LoT's decision that Seppel is town because he killed scum as a bad thing. No, Seppel is not CONFIRMED, sure. But what other conclusion should we come to for someone on D1 who killed a scum?
This all just feels like you're trying to take town points from people who earned them, is what I'm trying to say.
Scum.
Dismissal of KJ's point. Dunno if it means anything, given that KJ was soft defending LoT, who we know is scum.
Quote from InfectiousBaloth »
On page 8 of 12. (50ppp)
[B]I have some very strong reads at this point, very few people in the middle.
Also, forgot I replaced in for Lennon so I have some notes on how scummy I am. Sick life[/B].
[B]Hah hah. Remember that thing up above about Dan, where I disliked him mentioning how scummy his precursor was? Meet a supporting data point for that theory![/B]
Quote from InfectiousBaloth »
Void
75 +
108 +
221 +
245 +
439 -
Tom
103 -
120 -
176 +++
256 +-
486 -
520 -
Cythare/Gan_Dan
116 -
547 -
Dunno if there's anything useful in there, really. But I read it, I saw it, figured I'd toss it up and see if anyone else sees anything in there.
Dan
Seppel (if SK we're screwed)
[B]IB (basically confirmed via Captain's awful early case, bussing is not in that individual's playbook thus far. Don't screw this up, IB)[/B]
Rhand (townRhand, Captain, [GIP {let's see what you've got, make me proud}])
Void (townVoid, Anak slip)
Tom (role, town!Tom [vote towards Anak, {GIP}])
AI (#350)
---
Wessel (good posts, but I can never read him)
Megiddo (gut, mainly, but nothing pinging scumdar)
Voxx (wtf conversation with Megs, this is not C&B gameplay PPE LOL 581 JK)
TeH JaY (AI put it best, but [somewhat] visible town motivations behind most posts. Will likely work herself out as game progresses if incorrect. Repeated posts promising further content becoming frustrating)
RobRoy (just doesn't seem scummy?)
---
Cyouni (good posts, but I can never read him, low-hanging fruit extended push of Teh JaY bothered me, minor chainsaw of EtR bothered me)
Swishh (see: Teh Jay but in the opposite direction)
---
Killjoy (actively providing a lack of content, #388 & #519 )
Lord of Tresserhorn (general lack of scumhunting, enjoys fences, lovely posts like #407 & #474, name claim just to attempt to get Seppel off his back. Acknowledging possibility of noob!town that is just coming across as blatantly scummy without intention/ability to do otherwise)
Anak (slip, play reminds me of Flame Warriors, #392 is forced)
EtR (Seppel, I don't see how you think his play has improved. He just... didn't defend himself against #338. #425 was awful. This is pretty cut & dry)
Quote from Dan »
Let's actually move Voxx up two spots, AI down two spots, and swap Wessel/Megs. Final answer, Regis.
[B]This is the key to the game, I think. Dan's read wall near the end of D1. I don't think he has a single read of a scum player on it that looks favorably on him at all. Which is almost a town tell. Almost.
I don't like the IB 'confirmed town' thing. I don't like the randomly just sticking AI up there as town thing. I don't like the waffling safety nets on JeY and LoT. There's not much I do like from a 'what we know now' perspective.[/B]
You are borderline confirmed town. Please behave as such.
This is a repeated thing with Dan. Insisting that IB is clear, and begging him to start behaving like town. It's so blatant that I almost don't want to believe it's reality (both being scum), but at this point it seems pretty likely. Unless it's Void. Or Tom is randomly a neutral.
I think it means that Gan_Dan believes I'm almost confirmed town because Tyzmo(sp) attacked Lennon. I wouldn't personally assign "almost confirmed town" status to someone based on such weak reasoning. It seems to me that Dan's telling me that I am not playing as "townie" as he would like. This being the second time he's called me confirmed (or almost confirmed) and I don't like it.
[B]IB[/B]
How townie do you believe you are being this game?
Weird-ass question.
Also, Rick still is offputting as **** re-reading his comments. I really wish you'd adjust your playstyle to be a bit less abraisive, Meg - it's a team, social game and the 'I'll do as I please' attitude is a tad grating and makes things unfun. Unrelated to everything, but yeah.
Quote from Dan »
@IB: It's not weak reasoning. You're town. Start contributing. An example: what do you think of this Tom/Meg spat?
Another Dan/IB thing. This is getting absurd - he mentions it like six times that IB's town - what's the mindset behind that? I can't really fathom a town or scum one.
Hammer on scum. Should note that it was not cutting off discussion, and someone else was going to hammer shortly if he didn't. Null tell at worst, slight attempt at generating town credit possible?
Quote from InfectiousBaloth »
I think that Megs is being excessively defensive. This looks like Tom's town game. I need to discern if it's normal for Megs to be so belligerent.
@Rickgiddo: do you have any completed games?
Only really posting it because it mentions two remaining players. Don't think there's anything there, as Rick is town, and Tom is not mafia.
How many scum should we expect in a 19 player game? 4 or 5?[/B]
Eesh. I really, really dislike this post. Not sure how I never noticed it before. 'Oh, gee, this guy that I know will flip town might flip town. Woe is us.' Also, the 'Are we looking at 4 or 5 scum?' when there's actually...six? Hrmgle. Dislike.
also I'm super tempted to just start using my main account at this point. I keep forgetting that I can only phone post on that account.................
Rick mentioning the thing Cyouni talked about - Tyzmo and LoT both not wanting to lynch Void. Gahhhhhh. Can we shoot Void and Dan? And maybe Tom just to be safe? I don't see what could possibly go wrong.
[B]Hrmgle. #837 is a huge post by Teh_JeY where she attacks Swishh. Chainsaw defending Void? I don't even know at this point why am I still working on this at 2:30 in the ****ing morning when I have to be up early I hate mafia.[/B]
Quote from Ganderin_Dan »
TeH JeY's posts have been getting better.
I think the AI questioning, while well-intended, will not lead anywhere productive.
But then Dan swoops back in with this thing and takes my mind back off Void. I mean, it's not a scum tell to be wrong. Really, it's not. But it's the way they're worded that makes me just grunt inarticulately and want him dead for it.
You are very eager to know why you are name-claiming, but not interested enough to refuse Seppel. Why are you so interested in appeasing the request of one person?
Because the request [B]came from town[/B], so complying is helping a townie to further their understanding of the game. That can only help the town. I'm eager to know why simply because it bothers me that people are seeing things that I'm not, and it's a bit frustrating to me that I can't figure it out.
I think the AI questioning, while well-intended, will not lead anywhere productive.
I'll be liking you as a scum candidate after AlphaInsidious flips scum.
[/B]
Very good post here from Void. Goes back and looks at the AI/LoT interaction 'slip', and... apparently forgets that Wessel is dead? Trouble reconciling that with a scum mindset, and makes Dan more likely.
You are very eager to know why you are name-claiming, but not interested enough to refuse Seppel. Why are you so interested in appeasing the request of one person?
Because the request [B]came from town[/B], so complying is helping a townie to further their understanding of the game. That can only help the town. I'm eager to know why simply because it bothers me that people are seeing things that I'm not, and it's a bit frustrating to me that I can't figure it out.
If so, I think it could indicate a scum/scum conversation, where Tresserhorn slips while talking with his buddy about a townie.
But I'm wary of talking more about it and I'd like to see Tresserhorn respond to it.
For those who are not voting AlphaInsidious you need to be.
Dude what the hell. Don't steal my credit.
I can't think of a reason against a mass claim and also support it. I think the most suspect should go first though.
Welp. This is one of the first things I've seen from Tom that make me want him dead. 'Don't steal my town credit, bro' sets off all kinds of alarms. What was it called... ah, yes. Silver Rage.
[B]@TCMod:[/B] Killjoy is still listed as a living player in the OP.
We should still lynch Eron. Do I need to actually make a case? He stopped being under any pressure, and vanished.
AI train building, Dan tries to redirect to Eron. Just like he did from LoT. Ergh. The razor says scum, my gut says scum, my brain's like 'that's just...too blatant'. Wat do.
[B]Annnnd then the Void claim post in #945. I really, really don't like that he waited so long in the day to claim, even if he did bread-crumb it a bit. Gambit alert overload. Especially given that he mentioned scum gambits earlier in the game by pointing out Kpaca running a cop gambit in Seasons... so he was obviously thinking from that perspective. Ergh.[/B]
I don't think that volunteering to try and screw over another faction is very sporting, personally.
I'm going to lynch you for claiming SK, but I don't think that if I were in your shoes, I'd be agreeing to just play vig for the town, then eventually get lynched. While that is playing to the win condition (staying alive longer), it's just going through the motions while gimping the mafia.
[B]Vote: AI[/B]
Dunno what to think. Why does he care about gimping the mafia? It doesn't make sense to say that, because he knows that AI is scum (if he's scum) and bleh.
Ftr, I believe the last two scum to be Voxx with either one of Rhand or IB or Teh JeY.
I'm leaning towards IB becasue I doubt he is a Back-Up Doctor. If he is, then why did he post in a non-chalant way when Teh JeY has already claimed Ultimate Back-Up. IMO, that be a CC of sorts.
Mm. IB, Teh_Jey, whatever, they're both scumbuddies, right? Mostly joking, but this might have been another AI thing that got looked over.
#1084 basically confirms Rick as not-mafia. Like his play the entire game hasn't screamed town.
And. then there's the recent stuff and it's 3:30 in the morning and I'm not going through it. Hm. Going to just hit submit and then try to do a short recap.
I probably should have spoilered that, but I don't care. It's near the end game, laziness not allowed, go read it.
Conclusion:
Rick is still town. He's not being lynched. If he's scum, he earned the win and deserves it.
Tom is probably town. I found two posts in the entire thread that I felt could have possibly come from a neutral/scum mindset - the ones where he wanted credit for his AI case. I don't want to lynch him, I don't think.
Void is... possibly scum? I like his role. So there's that. And his night actions are pretty cool. Except for the part where he had a roleblock shot with a scum roleblocker and scum backup roleblocker. That's kind of convenient. Haven't really liked a whole lot else he's done this game (which you can see the highlights of in my post above), but...
I want to lynch Dan. I think Dan is mafia. I think he intentionally took no action when roleblocked N3, and JeY performed the kill. Dan has consistently been redirecting from scum all game, and tunneled into EtR hard. The only thing (and I do mean only thing) giving me pause, is how blatant some of his buddying of scum was (hi IB, JeY, AI), and how genuine the 'welp, game is over' posts were from Jey/Dan, both. But it's quite feasible that it was a gambit. Kill the person that would implicate JeY, have Dan do nothing, and hope to coast to end game by lynching...everyone else? I don't know, it's pretty weak, but they were in a bad position.
Vote: Ganderin_Dan
p.s. sucking up to me by being resolute about this being my town game can't last forever, Dan. Also, that probably works better if other people in the game had access to my notes from C&B and could more easily compare the two.
Also, there's a lot of weird formatting in the giant quote wall I guess.
I'm tired, and just hit random things if I wanted stuff to stand out, sometimes.
But I have things to do in the morning, and I've spent far too much of my non-existent free time trying to get thoughts out there, so yeah. Sleep times.
I certainly haven't done much to make you think I'm town. Pretty wrong on AI (although you didn't really acknowledge my reason for coming to that conclusion, which I think are justifiable) and IB (faulty assumptions). Mediocre interactions.
I do think your last couple points are reaching, as well as the "safety nets" thing with Jey & LoT. That's my process when dealing with new players. And how can you think the "doc on Seppel" thing is scummy when he WAS TOWN, and I defended that status against multiple people telling me he wasn't confirmed?
Generally speaking, you mention that wrong =/= scum, but then you take it and run. Can't blame you in some aspects (IB mainly), but just understand that's the main reason you want to push this wagon, and you'll be proving your original assumption correct.
It’s a moot point now. Voxx didn’t have a Day Vig.
I have been actively scum hunting all game.
I have cased you (Santorum) as possibly being the SK. Although I am not so sure on this anymore.
My Doc Protect would prevent any kill directed at the target of my choice. TCMod had not considered the option and I had seen a variant recently so I inquired.
I do not know how TCMod would resolve a Double Role Block situation. I cannot answer the question at the moment about what Rhand would see.
RobRoy claimed to be Role Blocked. I will find the post if you want me too.
Yeah, I know. Wrong is not a scumtell in itself, as an isolated incident.
But at this stage of the game, when I can't build a behavioral case on Tom or Rick, and you've consistently been deflecting off of confirmed scum and tunneling confirmed town, you make the most sense by a significant margin.
If people want to lynch Tom, provide some behavioral reasoning, other than just being risk averse and scared of his role. Because I just don't see it.
He's incredibly unlikely to be part of the scum team, even ignoring his role - which means he would have to be a neutral of some kind. A neutral with killing power, that he only started killing with after all the scum were dead - and either perfectly shot into the same targets the mafia did/doc protects for the first, what, 3-4 nights of the game?
There haven't been any unaccounted for kills. The simplest explanation is that we're looking for a remaining mafia member. And while you've had things that give me pause, namely Cythare's 3-scum thing, the 'game is over whee' thing, and the general blatant scummy interactions, I can't ignore those interactions when I can't really see a case on the person that was at H-1.
Good content from Voxx. I'm going to respond to what I want to respond to on it now.
Note: @Voxx: I highlighted some stuff in green. That stuff I recommend you try to avoid in future big posts as it made it annoying for me to read like nails on a chalkboard.
Cythare/Teh_JeY interaction. Pointing out aggression but not doing anything about it is a thing. Maybe. I dunno. Gut tells me that it's a point in Cythare/Dan's favor, though.
My name is based off a random paper i found when i was 6 i was trying to come up with an rpg name so my mom looked at some random papers and we got lennonmint its been my name for everything ever since then
Do you have nothing else to say about the game?
your quick to jump on my back its the first day
Void/Lennon interaction. I can see this as being Void as town or Void as scum. Not conclusive, just worth noting.
[B]And here's the infamous 3-man scum team quote.[/B]
Bolding and enlarging it for posterity. I mean...there's the fact that he's /wrong/ about all three, but early in day one that's not precisely damning. I don't really know what to make of it. I want to write him off as town for this alone, but it's just one drop in the bucket - there are other interactions that make me go ergh later on.
For the record, here was his response to the 3-man scumteam thing:
Quote from Cythare »
I've been drinking and spaced out how many ppl were in this game. They're still all potential candidates at this early juncture, and have stood out more than others.
Voxx, there are 3 times in this post that you seem to disregard null tells / WIFOM. This is the first time. The 3-man scumteam quote is not even close to something you can write someone off as town for, and I'm not sure why you want to. It could have been made by careless town or smart scum. It is null.
The fact that you are refusing to comment on your vote, especially after someone asked you specifically to comment on his vote for you, makes you look scummy. You are also quick to get defensive, nobody is really getting on you're back. Now what would you have to be defensive about?
[B]Unvote Vote Lennonmint[/B]
[B]Unvote[/B]
[B]Vote: Anaklusmos[/B]
Anak is an experienced player here on this site, but he assumes that this post could only come from scum. That is not a town mind set. He's going for low hanging fruit and hoping it sticks.
That he seems stuck on something that appears innocuous and is now calling Lennon out for not responding to it.
I've been drinking and spaced out how many ppl were in this game. They're still all potential candidates at this early juncture, and have stood out more than others.
Who is the "they" you refer to here? I'm confused.
"They" refers to the three people I noted before - RobRoy, swishh and EtR.
----------------
I'm interested to see Teh Jay's responses to AI, Cyouni and Rhand, but I'm not seeing it yet myself.
Cytharepost - of note is the chainsaw defense of Lennon, and 'not seeing' the attack on Teh_JeY.
I'm actually liking Teh JeY's posts so far. She's been posting a lot, and I'm not getting the feeling that she is taking much time to consider her posts before throwing them out there. That strikes me as more of a townie mindset, or a very comfortable scum. The wildcard in this is that she obviously has outside experience.
/barn this. Teh JeY's (May I shorten this to TJ for easier typing?) reminds me of my play when I first started playing. This is not to say the Teh JeY is certainly town or scum, but the type of posting I am seeing makes reading Teh JeY much easier.
Of course the fence-sit post went ignored for a while but a person without too many previous posts in the discussion brings it up, followed by two more people without too many previous posts, hardly bandwagoning as opposed to staking a really good claim. Perhaps I'm missing something fishy?
Three people vote for her. Her immediate response is to wonder if she's missing something fishy. There are two options here, given the context isn't fully clear. One, that there's something fishy with her accusers. That's oblique mudslinging. Two, that there's something fishy in her posts that she's missing.
[B]Town shouldn't be wondering if there's something fishy in their posts that's being attacked[/B].
The bolded: If Teh JeY is town, then why wouldn't she want to know what is fishy about her posts when she is not familiar with are meta?
Void defending Teh_JeY. Kind of. Or at least approving?
(Note: Still can't believe Kill Joy was town. Seriously. He's twigging my scumdar like mad even on this re-read, knowing that he's town)
Quote from Wessel »
Well, look at it this way. Say you are Cythare and scum, and you are in a, let's say, 5-man scum team. 4 at the least, in a 19 player setup. I think it's highly unlikely that scumCythare would backpedal the way he did if he knew he was part of a 4 or 5-man scum team. He would have been much more inclined to say something along the lines of 'Of course not, Tom, don't be daft for thinking I only think there are three scum!'. ScumCythare would almost certainly not have first made a mistake about the amount of scum in this game, and then when called out on it, would have done a suspicious action by backpedalling on it.
Of course, it's *possible* that Cythare all feigned this and is in fact a brilliant mastermind who would know at least one person would make the observation and deduction I made. But I think it's highly improbable. So for that reason, I think Cythare is probably town.
Here's a post from Wessel that explains the Cythare 3-man-scumteam-slip thing a bit more. Yeah, yeah, I keep harping on it. But it's hard to shake.
Wessel is wrong here. ScumCythare would do exactly as he did if he were trying to be clever. It takes no brilliant mastermind to mistake the number of scum on the team and then continue to make that mistake look genuine.
Of course the fence-sit post went ignored for a while but a person without too many previous posts in the discussion brings it up, followed by two more people without too many previous posts, hardly bandwagoning as opposed to staking a really good claim. Perhaps I'm missing something fishy?
Three people vote for her. Her immediate response is to wonder if she's missing something fishy. There are two options here, given the context isn't fully clear. One, that there's something fishy with her accusers. That's oblique mudslinging. Two, that there's something fishy in her posts that she's missing.
[B]Town shouldn't be wondering if there's something fishy in their posts that's being attacked[/B].
The bolded: If Teh JeY is town, then why wouldn't she want to know what is fishy about her posts when she is not familiar with are meta?
First, how is site meta relevant in this case?
The second is more complicated, and I misworded it slightly. Take the original phrase, "Perhaps I'm missing something fishy?" From this, it can be inferred that there could be something fishy she's not missing. Or, rather, that she believes that there could be something fishy in her post.
It's a guilty mindset. Consider: would you be wondering if there's something scummy in your post?
Do you remember Basic #64 Stuff I Like Mafia Modded by Emo Pinata? The game was created to bring players over from Px2 so they could see what are Mafia Community was like. There play on this site was not very good and came across rather scummy most of the time. It's simply that their meta on Px2 varies in comparison to MTGS. And since Teh JeY comes from another site I would believe their meta to be different from ours and therefore Teh JeY may not believe her posts are fishy.
While I get the point you are coming too I don't see this as just a scum thought process.
I just want to get this clear. You all think Lennon is just a noob that's flailing? I mean, I can accept that I might be wrong, it was just that all his reactions seemed... off to me.
I'm not reading Lennon as flailing so much as I am reading Lennon as a complete and utter newb. I have not seen anything from Lennon that points towards him being scum or town at the moment.
Voidpost...more defense of Teh_JeY. Interaction with LoT, where he says he wishes he had two votes? Hm. Possible distancing.
I find the last part interesting too - he's attacking people that are attacking Lennon, but doesn't think he's town? The whole premise of his vote on Anak at the time was that he was attacking low hanging fruit (Lennon). Ugh.
And then the Anak scumchat 'slip' happened and hm. Yeah I'm not quoting all this. Might be worth a re-read if you need a refresher on it. It does read kind of oddly, like he's both defending and attacking Anak at the same time.
Quote from Captain_Tyzmo »
Void, here you have Anak, Lennon and Rick Santorum as scum. Who else would you peg as their buddies? Finding all of the scum Day 1 would be awesome.
Probbbbbably a point in Void's favor, here? Reeks of scum on town buddying. I think. **** it's late and I'm tired.
I don’t think any thing big enough has happened for my vote to be needed I’m sorry if "skittish" this is my first game of mafia
Seriously guys? We have someone who avoids giving analyzable content, and when pressured about it, plays the noob card? Let's lynch Lennon.
Alliteration ftw.
Captain Tyzmo goes after an easy target here, but never places a vote, prior to the above post, against Lennon despite saying “Let’s lynch Lennon.” Without the vote being there this looks more like an attempt to coach Lennon into providing content. Considering Lennon’s next two posts that say (paraphrased) “I don’t see anyone worthy of my vote” and “If I were to vote for anyone it would be swish for fooling around there might be a lead.” Makes it look like Lennon was dismissing Captain Tyzmo’s post and continued on his own thoughts. This has me believing that Lennon is town with how he reacted to Captain Tyzmo.
[B]unvote[/B] Teh JeY. I think I misread her enthusiasm for nervousness.
The pressure didn't bring her off balance. The posting of her whole thought process makes what she types very hard to fake.
I don't like the votes on Lennon. The noobcard is not a scumtell. A town noob has just as many reasons to say he has no experience as a scum noob.
Captain Tyzmo is quick to "gotcha" him for that and adds that Lennon is refusing to give content, clearly ignoring Lennon’s next post where he says he is suspicious of swishh.
[B]vote: captain tyzmo[/vote]
You think "But if i was too vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around alot which might mean something" is content? He fence-sits, and then says that swishh is fooling around. How? How is swishh fooling around? I provided quotes of Lennon's, showing his weak play. And the noob card is just icing on the cake.
You think "But if i was too vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around a lot which might mean something" is content? He fence-sits, and then says that swishh is fooling around. How? How is swishh fooling around? I provided quotes of Lennon's, showing his weak play. And the noob card is just icing on the cake.
Yes, I do think it's content. You say he gives nothing to analyze, but you are analyzing it.
So your argument is that my push on Lennon is bad, because although he's posting fluff, he's posting fluff?
This exchange between Rhand and Captain Tyzmo puts Lennon into my town category and also puts Rhand into my leaning town category for his reasoning used on why Captain Tyzmo’s reads are faulty.
Voidpost on Tyzmo/Lennon, sticking Lennon into town category. Worth noting, even if it's hardly conclusive, since pretty much everyone wrote Lennon off as town due to the interactions.
Can you give your thoughts on the following players?
Kill-joy
Cyouni
Lord of Tresserhorn
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
No. Come back when you have something useful to ask me.
[B]This is why Rick is town.[/B] Extreme lack of self-preservation or self-awareness. The back and forth continues for a while, and had me in a rage for a bit. I was pretty convinced there were multiple scum in that list, and wanted his thoughts on them. And yeah. Blatant refusal, especially when there turned out to actually be two scum in that bunch is just not a mafia mindset. And I can't fathom it as a neutral mind-set either. Lack of self-awareness, etc.
Here is the second time I think your logic is faulty. Rick/Megs knows that it is town-like to act in a way that you don't care what other people think of you. He could simply be acting like that to appear town when he is really an SK or a mafioso. It's WIFOM and null, it does not make Rick town.
If anything it looks as if his "i don't care" is really forced and unnecessary, supporting my feelings about him trying too hard to act town.
Don't wait on me to lynch. I'll gladly take night to reread.
But if you don't think Seppel is obvtown, you're doing it wrong. He needs to be the doc protect tonight, asuming we have one.
EVERYONE PANIC G_D IS DIRECTING TOWN PRS!!!!!!!!
Bluh. Kind of dislike everything about this post in retrospect. Especially given EtR was close to being hammered. Was at L-1 at one point there. And then DOCS ON SEPPEL as 2 other people get shot by the scum team. Mrgle.
You are very eager to know why you are name-claiming, but not interested enough to refuse Seppel. Why are you so interested in appeasing the request of one person?
Because the request [B]came from town[/B], so complying is helping a townie to further their understanding of the game. That can only help the town. I'm eager to know why simply because it bothers me that people are seeing things that I'm not, and it's a bit frustrating to me that I can't figure it out.
The request for a name claim came from Seppel. Seeing as Seppel entered the game by vigging scum, and scum that nobody was looking into at the moment at that, I would say that Seppel is as close to confirmed town as we're going to get at the moment. So at this point I take a request from Seppel as a request from town.
Because Seppel killed scum you believe him to be town. While the razor does point in that direction Seppel is far from confirmed town.
Would you please list your top suspects for me?
Annnnd nevermind. Kind of. I dunno, I don't like this post. Just the way it's worded feels super forced.
These last few posts from EtR feel so sincere, I'm a little afraid of the outcome of this lynch. But in a sense, EtR himself is keeping my vote on him. He's right in saying that we have no other clear suspects. Certainly nobody with a great case made against them. The only thing in the past few posts from EtR that I don't like is him saying that it would be okay if I died, but I think that's just because I don't want to die. I'm not sure what my point really is here, as I've been drinking a bit tonight, but mostly I just wanted to put it out there that the last few posts from EtR are making me a bit nervous.
Would you mind explaining why you don't want to die without revealing information about your role?
That's not why I don't want to die. I don't want to die because I'm enjoying the game. If I were brought to claim-range I would obviously claim.
Also, I'd like to make it clear that I still believe EtR is scum. It's only in his last few posts that he's felt less scummy. I do however still support this lynch.
Uhm... I added the role information at the end of the question so that you didn't mistakenly give out any role information. I did not say nor mean that your role was the reason why you didn't want to die... I'm not sure you purposely misrepresented what I said or you truly believe that I meant your role was the reason for being However, you're response was more telling about you than what I was expecting.
You just went from calling Eron's post "sincere" to "less scummy than before". And you also said "I'm a little afraid of the outcome of this lynch" which shows you believe Eron to be town in that statement, but then say "I support his lynch". You've also waffled quiet a bit on Eron as well.
[B]Unvote[/B]
[B]Vote: LoT[/B]
Please list your top suspects with reasoning.
But then this is goodpost. Admittedly it follows myself and Cyouni talking about how they disliked LoT's posts, so it's not exactly the first thing mentioned on the situation - but it's still the first vote cast on him at a time when the EtR wagon could still be pushed through. Decent point in Void's favor.
Rhand's town, Anak deserves some pressure, WESSEL. STAHP THAT. THE WALLS OF TEXT. STHAP!
Swishh, Teh Jey probably both inexperienced town. [B]Cythare looks midly scummy with responses to RR (oh...)[/B]
I'm gonna have to actually take notes. Stupid big games.
Calls Teh JeY town. Shocker. [B]Also, the bolded in his quote is something that I anecdotally wanted to point out (Anecdotally is a word. Shh). I've historically found that people that mention how scummy their precursor was upon replacing in tend to be scum a shockingly high percentage of the time. It's like they're trying to distance themselves from their prior selves actions. [/B] I don't have anything to back that up, but it'd be an interesting experiment for someone with lots of free time to comb back over completed games and look for catch up posts by replacements. I suspect there'd be a high correlation!
From what I've seen I agree with you.
Quote from Voxx »
Quote from Tom »
The real analysis is why I have Seppel leaning town. His killing of CaptainT (who was on the radar) is almost completely null.
Oh, hey, something from Tom that makes me go 'wat'. Killing scum being almost completely null is 'wat'. I'm sure he answers this in a few posts, but still. Dislike.
Hm.
I feel the urge to explain basic WIFOM to you. This is the third part I don't like about your post.
If you were scum and had a daykill, which play would you make? Kill a townie? Hey one down, 12 to go, and now you face the spotlight from an angry town? Or kill a buddy who's already flailing, and look more town as a result?
You HAVE to consider the day kill null. If you don't, if you consider the daykiller town because he got a mafia member, then you encourage scum daykillers to make that very move. It's like a state of equilibrium, centered around null.
Quote from Voxx »
Quote from Cyouni »
[B]If Tresserhorn flips scum, there's a part where both he and Tyzmo react in a panicked fashion to the suggested lynching of Void. Due to that, I wanted to hold off on Void until I could see Tresserhorn's flip[/B].
Worth noting. Also worth noting is the fact that Cyouni was shot Night One. WiFOM, blah, blah, blah.
Also, Tom answers the 'confirmed town' thing wrt Seppel reasonably well in #523. Mostly. It was still weird.
The request for a name claim came from Seppel. Seeing as Seppel entered the game by vigging scum, and scum that nobody was looking into at the moment at that, I would say that Seppel is as close to confirmed town as we're going to get at the moment. So at this point I take a request from Seppel as a request from town.
Because Seppel killed scum you believe him to be town. While the razor does point in that direction Seppel is far from confirmed town.
Would you please list your top suspects for me?
[B]Unvote, vote Void[/B]. The way this is worded, you seem to be trying to paint LoT's decision that Seppel is town because he killed scum as a bad thing. No, Seppel is not CONFIRMED, sure. But what other conclusion should we come to for someone on D1 who killed a scum?
This all just feels like you're trying to take town points from people who earned them, is what I'm trying to say.
Scum.
Dismissal of KJ's point. Dunno if it means anything, given that KJ was soft defending LoT, who we know is scum.
Quote from InfectiousBaloth »
On page 8 of 12. (50ppp)
[B]I have some very strong reads at this point, very few people in the middle.
Also, forgot I replaced in for Lennon so I have some notes on how scummy I am. Sick life[/B].
[B]Hah hah. Remember that thing up above about Dan, where I disliked him mentioning how scummy his precursor was? Meet a supporting data point for that theory![/B]
Quote from InfectiousBaloth »
Void
75 +
108 +
221 +
245 +
439 -
Tom
103 -
120 -
176 +++
256 +-
486 -
520 -
Cythare/Gan_Dan
116 -
547 -
Dunno if there's anything useful in there, really. But I read it, I saw it, figured I'd toss it up and see if anyone else sees anything in there.
Dan
Seppel (if SK we're screwed)
[B]IB (basically confirmed via Captain's awful early case, bussing is not in that individual's playbook thus far. Don't screw this up, IB)[/B]
Rhand (townRhand, Captain, [GIP {let's see what you've got, make me proud}])
Void (townVoid, Anak slip)
Tom (role, town!Tom [vote towards Anak, {GIP}])
AI (#350)
---
Wessel (good posts, but I can never read him)
Megiddo (gut, mainly, but nothing pinging scumdar)
Voxx (wtf conversation with Megs, this is not C&B gameplay PPE LOL 581 JK)
TeH JaY (AI put it best, but [somewhat] visible town motivations behind most posts. Will likely work herself out as game progresses if incorrect. repeated posts promising further content becoming frustrating)
RobRoy (just doesn't seem scummy?)
---
Cyouni (good posts, but I can never read him, low-hanging fruit extended push of Teh JaY bothered me, minor chainsaw of EtR bothered me)
Swishh %2see: Teh Jay but in the opposite direction)
---
Killjoy (actively providing a lack of content, #388 & #519 )
Lord of Tresserhorn (general lack of scumhunting, enjoys fences, lovely posts like #407 & #474, name claim just to attempt to get Seppel off his back. Acknowledging possibility of noob!town that is just coming across as blatantly scummy without intention/ability to do otherwise)
Anak (slip, play reminds me of Flame Warriors, #392 is forced)
EtR (Seppel, I don't see how you think his play has improved. He just... didn't defend himself against #338. #425 was awful. This is pretty cut & dry)
Quote from Dan »
Let's actually move Voxx up two spots, AI down two spots, and swap Wessel/Megs. Final answer, Regis.
[B]This is the key to the game, I think. Dan's read wall near the end of D1. I don't think he has a single read of a scum player on it that looks favorably on him at all. Which is almost a town tell. Almost.
I don't like the IB 'confirmed town' thing. I don't like the randomly just sticking AI up there as town thing. I don't like the waffling safety nets on JeY and LoT. There's not much I do like from a 'what we know now' perspective.[/B]
Can you explain that "which is almost a town tell, almost" part of this? I don't get it.
Also, definitely agree. The part about bussing on g_d's IB review as well as the "don't screw this up" feels way off.
You are borderline confirmed town. Please behave as such.
This is a repeated thing with Dan. Insisting that IB is clear, and begging him to start behaving like town. It's so blatant that I almost don't want to believe it's reality (both being scum), but at this point it seems pretty likely. Unless it's Void. Or Tom is randomly a neutral.
I think it means that Gan_Dan believes I'm almost confirmed town because Tyzmo(sp) attacked Lennon. I wouldn't personally assign "almost confirmed town" status to someone based on such weak reasoning. It seems to me that Dan's telling me that I am not playing as "townie" as he would like. This being the second time he's called me confirmed (or almost confirmed) and I don't like it.
[B]IB[/B]
How townie do you believe you are being this game?
Weird-ass question.
Also, Rick still is offputting as **** re-reading his comments. I really wish you'd adjust your playstyle to be a bit less abraisive, Meg - it's a team, social game and the 'I'll do as I please' attitude is a tad grating and makes things unfun. Unrelated to everything, but yeah.
^glad someone agrees with me there.
Quote from Voxx »
Quote from Dan »
@IB: It's not weak reasoning. You're town. Start contributing. An example: what do you think of this Tom/Meg spat?
Another Dan/IB thing. This is getting absurd - he mentions it like six times that IB's town - what's the mindset behind that? I can't really fathom a town or scum one.
You can't fathom a scum mindset behind trying to make your scum buddy look town?
Hammer on scum. Should note that it was not cutting off discussion, and someone else was going to hammer shortly if he didn't. Null tell at worst, slight attempt at generating town credit possible?
Quote from InfectiousBaloth »
I think that Megs is being excessively defensive. This looks like Tom's town game. I need to discern if it's normal for Megs to be so belligerent.
@Rickgiddo: do you have any completed games?
Only really posting it because it mentions two remaining players. Don't think there's anything there, as Rick is town, and Tom is not mafia.
How many scum should we expect in a 19 player game? 4 or 5?[/B]
Eesh. I really, really dislike this post. Not sure how I never noticed it before. 'Oh, gee, this guy that I know will flip town might flip town. Woe is us.' Also, the 'Are we looking at 4 or 5 scum?' when there's actually...six? Hrmgle. Dislike.
also I'm super tempted to just start using my main account at this point. I keep forgetting that I can only phone post on that account.................
Rick mentioning the thing Cyouni talked about - Tyzmo and LoT both not wanting to lynch Void. Gahhhhhh. Can we shoot Void and Dan? And maybe Tom just to be safe? I don't see what could possibly go wrong.
Shoot? Also, if we were going to be lynching all three of the players you listed, you would have to do me first, which you make clear you are not an advocate off. We don't have 3 days to lynch those players anyway.
Quote from Voxx »
[B]Hrmgle. #837 is a huge post by Teh_JeY where she attacks Swishh. Chainsaw defending Void? I don't even know at this point why am I still working on this at 2:30 in the ****ing morning when I have to be up early I hate mafia.[/B]
Quote from Ganderin_Dan »
TeH JeY's posts have been getting better.
I think the AI questioning, while well-intended, will not lead anywhere productive.
But then Dan swoops back in with this thing and takes my mind back off Void. I mean, it's not a scum tell to be wrong. Really, it's not. But it's the way they're worded that makes me just grunt inarticulately and want him dead for it.
You are very eager to know why you are name-claiming, but not interested enough to refuse Seppel. Why are you so interested in appeasing the request of one person?
Because the request [B]came from town[/B], so complying is helping a townie to further their understanding of the game. That can only help the town. I'm eager to know why simply because it bothers me that people are seeing things that I'm not, and it's a bit frustrating to me that I can't figure it out.
I think the AI questioning, while well-intended, will not lead anywhere productive.
I'll be liking you as a scum candidate after AlphaInsidious flips scum.
[/B]
Very good post here from Void. Goes back and looks at the AI/LoT interaction 'slip', and... apparently forgets that Wessel is dead? Trouble reconciling that with a scum mindset, and makes Dan more likely.
You are very eager to know why you are name-claiming, but not interested enough to refuse Seppel. Why are you so interested in appeasing the request of one person?
Because the request [B]came from town[/B], so complying is helping a townie to further their understanding of the game. That can only help the town. I'm eager to know why simply because it bothers me that people are seeing things that I'm not, and it's a bit frustrating to me that I can't figure it out.
If so, I think it could indicate a scum/scum conversation, where Tresserhorn slips while talking with his buddy about a townie.
But I'm wary of talking more about it and I'd like to see Tresserhorn respond to it.
For those who are not voting AlphaInsidious you need to be.
Dude what the hell. Don't steal my credit.
I can't think of a reason against a mass claim and also support it. I think the most suspect should go first though.
Welp. This is one of the first things I've seen from Tom that make me want him dead. 'Don't steal my town credit, bro' sets off all kinds of alarms. What was it called... ah, yes. Silver Rage.
[B]@TCMod:[/B] Killjoy is still listed as a living player in the OP.
We should still lynch Eron. Do I need to actually make a case? He stopped being under any pressure, and vanished.
AI train building, Dan tries to redirect to Eron. Just like he did from LoT. Ergh. The razor says scum, my gut says scum, my brain's like 'that's just...too blatant'. Wat do.
[B]Annnnd then the Void claim post in #945. I really, really don't like that he waited so long in the day to claim, even if he did bread-crumb it a bit. Gambit alert overload. Especially given that he mentioned scum gambits earlier in the game by pointing out Kpaca running a cop gambit in Seasons... so he was obviously thinking from that perspective. Ergh.[/B]
I don't think that volunteering to try and screw over another faction is very sporting, personally.
I'm going to lynch you for claiming SK, but I don't think that if I were in your shoes, I'd be agreeing to just play vig for the town, then eventually get lynched. While that is playing to the win condition (staying alive longer), it's just going through the motions while gimping the mafia.
[B]Vote: AI[/B]
Dunno what to think. Why does he care about gimping the mafia? It doesn't make sense to say that, because he knows that AI is scum (if he's scum) and bleh.
Ftr, I believe the last two scum to be Voxx with either one of Rhand or IB or Teh JeY.
I'm leaning towards IB becasue I doubt he is a Back-Up Doctor. If he is, then why did he post in a non-chalant way when Teh JeY has already claimed Ultimate Back-Up. IMO, that be a CC of sorts.
Mm. IB, Teh_Jey, whatever, they're both scumbuddies, right? Mostly joking, but this might have been another AI thing that got looked over.
#1084 basically confirms Rick as not-mafia. Like his play the entire game hasn't screamed town.
And. then there's the recent stuff and it's 3:30 in the morning and I'm not going through it. Hm. Going to just hit submit and then try to do a short recap.
So just responding to random crap; for the most part I agree with you. As I said earlier I think I want to lynch one of g_d / Void today and one tomorrow.
I think I prefer g_d, so: [B]Unvote, Vote: gan_dan, Vote: gan_dan[/B]
g_d: why did you unvote? I shouldn't have to ask that question but there you go.
So I was about to come in and declare Tom confirmed town but then that happened.
So we may have just lost.
Anyway, if it's relevant, some analysis I typed up earlier:
Voxxicus does feel townie to me, and not just because of his recent spurt of activity. His reveal of the kill early in the game strikes me as a pro-town activity. I don't see how that went down as SK material, just in my recollection. I'm unhappy that RR was Voxx's major opponent D2 and then died N2... but that's WIFOM.
Dan I'd respond but you just got lynched so there's no point.
@void: Yes, I remember RR being blocked N1. I need to see if there were any other claims for that. I don't think there's anything to say about the rest of your responses.
@Rick: What makes think I'm confirmed town all of a sudden? I mean you should have thought that a while ago, but I'm wondering why you do now.
---
Oops, for some reason I thought it was 4 to lynch.
Oh well, this is pretty much what I wanted to happen anyway. Lynch g_d or Void today and if we haven't won lynch the other tomorrow. Better than lynching me
I'm town, so if you are town too, rest assured that you have not lost (yet). Hopefully you've even won
I'm probably going to die tonight, if there is a tonight. If there is a tomorrow, I'm pretty sure I want Void dead. If Voxx or Rick are actually the remaining baddie, all I can say is well done.
Confirmed town because if you were scum you would have hammered immediately without all of the words because you would win.
You are now confirmed town in my eyes, whereas you weren't before. I mean, if you are scum, GG, but otherwise I think we have just made POE a lot easier.
His reveal of the kill early in the game strikes me as a pro-town activity. I don't see how that went down as SK material, just in my recollection.
I think that since the other two kills N1 were from mafia, if there was an SK in this game Voxx would make the most sense because he made the third kill that night.
Oh, AI claimed the kill on Cyouni? Ok, I believe that.
Also my thought process is thus:
1. Tom hasn't hammered. He's town, or else he would have hammered and won.
2. Oh ****, Tom hammered. We might have just lost.
3. If we didn't just lose, Tom is guaranteed town.
It's a bit of a tautology but... yeah. My point is that if you are scum we are almost literally dead in the water here and you might as well just tell us so that we can end the game now. Since this is not happening, you are town.
Ganderin_dan (3): Voxxicus, Tom, Tom
As the gathering comes around again, tensions flare. Both Tom and Voxxicusargue largely over what has been said, trying to find even the smallest of hint of deception. Dan comes in to say that perhaps if he is not trusted, he should go next. While the response is dismissed at first, the sudden thought that he was pulling a trick became realized. As both Tom and Voxxicus turn toward G_d, he suddenly realizes they mean to end him. Panicking, he begs that he was simply joking, but it is far too late. Voxxicus holds him down while Tom beats the living crap out of Reggie Jackson, Town Vanilla. Realizing the horror both men brought down upon themselves, they retreat to their rooms, while Rick Santorum and Void watch in solemn silence.
It is now night 6. You have 72 hours to get your actions into me.
Reggie Jackson (Town Vanilla)
Cythare, You are Reggie Jackson (Dates unknown ) As one of the first African American baseball players to participate on an all-white Baseball league, you helped to break the color barriers in professional sports. Nowadays, there is no such thing as a white or black league, only a professional league. In addition to your contributions to African Americans in the professional league, you were brought up to the hall of fame in 1993, and uniform #44 was officially retired from the New York Yankees.
Abilities: During the day, you may vote for any player.
As the day starts, the immediate belief of Tom being guilty. As you open the door to his quarters, you see him still asleep. As one of you turns the body around, you see his eyes still open, with quite a few bruises all over his head, and that same hammer that claimed Seppel's life. You immediately recognize Tom as Andrew Jackson, Town Double Voter, and realize that another noble man has died.
With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
Andrew Jackson (Town Double Voter)
Tom, You are Andrew Jackson(March 15, 1767 – June 8, 1845)
The Hero of New Orleans, and the first democratic president, you were quite the fireball during your reign and before. In 1831, you declared war on the United States bank calling it a corrupted instrument of the rich, and in 1833, you dealt with the first real threat to the union: The Nullification crisis in South Carolina. Considered one of the best presidents by historians, your fame knows no bounds.
During the day, you may vote twice. You may vote the same player twice, however, to move votes, you MUST be specific with who you are unvoting. (I.E. Vote Player A, Unvote Player B, Vote Player A)
rereading Voxx tonight, will look at void when I have more time.
Impressions: Voxx is legitimately scumhunting. Unfortunately, SKs are able to scumhunt effectively. I really cannot find anything that points me in the direction that he is working against the town.
I think the key interactions are going to be the beginning of Day 2 when we're talking about the SK. Basically, starting here.
My thoughts: Voxxicus was especially... I'll call it "blatant" about being responsible for a kill. 687, in particular, is like a kid with chocolate on his face trying to deny that he got into the Halloween candy.
So, why? Maybe he is the vig and was just a little too worried about being asked to claim. However, I think that Voxxicus is a good enough town player that he wouldn't be so obvious about being a PR, so this is a strike against him—I can see an SK feigning this line of discussion to sell the one-shot vig story. If he really was responsible for the kill he would know that nobody else would claim it—and that just makes the situation worse for him. Why wouldn't the vig claim? Like RR said, you just get lynched if you slowroll it.
Basically everything behaviorally from voxx is null at this point, in my view.
I keep putting off the analysis of this post by RobRoy, but I suppose now is the time to buckle down.
He has a point: Voxxicus states that Jey became a "possible scum read" after Anak flipped town, but in his explanation of who he was considering to vig he listed jey, a thought process which presumably happened before Anak flipped. His response was kind of handwavey. RobRoy follows up here. I will note that RR's theory is that Voxx is a toughguy, which we know is not the case. However, we can still apply the theory to Voxx being an SK.
Other notes: Voxx's 767 and Seppel's 769—I was watching for SK mentions, and this is certainly not the first but it is a crucial one.
5 players alive, im mafia, and theyre about to lynch my bud so im like "im op that other bro is guipty" and then they believe it and im all boners they just lynched the real cop
lol
***end aside***
We then have a long period with no posting from Voxx—related to work, as I understand it, but he's back in action after a while. this post seems reasonable, but only if he was expecting to get run up to claim. My problem with Voxx's play from the SK standpoint is that it relied on him getting run up (the goal being to claim 1-shot vig so that he would be left alone by scum). He did not do anything actually scummy during Day 2 that I saw at all, so there's not any indication that he was trying to do this. It also strongly endangers him of being lynched. Anyway, there is some AtE in here as well. Just noting it. (Not the OOG stuff, the "lynch me if you want" business).
After that we end up past the point where this is discussed, and are back to the standard goodposting Voxxicus.
I always get worried when people call me town when I am not really acting super townie, as Voxxicus has been all game. I mean, his reasoning is sound (and he's right), but the long-term, repeated insistence definitely makes me :eyebrow:. I mention this mostly to say that I don't want to approach the Day saying that Voxx is town because he's right about me.
Late game Voxx started out insisting that we lynch him but then dropped it after we did. Not sure if this means anything.
One last thing to consider is Voxxicus's swap from Tom to Dan Yesterday. Lynching Dan rather than Tom puts SKVoxx in a tough spot—the only possible NK target would be Tom. Why would he do that, then? Entering Night with Dan, me, himself, and Void gives him the opportunity to kill me, the guy who he was thumping on about as being town all game and double his shots at a mislynch to win the game. Right now... well, if he tries voting me I will be awfully surprised, to say the least.
I come out of this read with the following impression: Behaviorally, Voxxicus is as townie as can be. He has been scumhunting. He as actively made plays that would limit his options as an SK. However, I am given pause by two things. The first is that SKs are actually able to scumhunt honestly. The second is that Voxxicus claims to be a very good player. I cannot put it past him to run what he did as an SK, even if he was running plays that were against his best interests.
---
I will review Void later, as I said. I have been tunneling him since Day one and am not willing to place a vote until I have actually put the time into it.
Going in I will be asking myself the question, "what do I need to see to convince myself that Void is actually town?" I know what I need to see, which is Day 1 interactions that do not indicate scum behavior. Anything after Day 1 is part of the hypothetical master plan to bus his whole team and become a cleared "town PR," so it would need to be evaluated more carefully, but even then I can look for genuine interactions over fabricated ones.
Just as a note his treatment of the AI cop result reveal on Day 2 is pretty ridiculous and if I lynch him for anything it's going to be for that.
Also, fair warning, I may self-replace into my main account Today depending on activity from you guys. I can't phone post from this account and I may wish to do that.
tl;dr void and voxxicus fight for my amusement please
Going to re-read both of you, and try to clear any preconceptions beforehand, I think.
I'm obviously leaning Void right now, but I have to acknowledge the possibility that Rick fooled me - especially given the Vanilla claim, and lack of mechanical clear.
I can't really say much in terms of defending myself, unfortunately - it's almost all going to be WiFOM.
I've been scumhunting, I've been open about my thought processes and reads, I locked myself into a killing claim extremely early, I volunteered to be lynched (and fully expected to be the lynch that day), and I dug my heels in against an easy lynch on Tom to put in a ton of effort casing Dan.
But despite all that, there's the WiFOM potential there of 'He could have done that as a SK, even if it was against his own interests to do so'. And I'm not sure what I can say to that except shrug and acknowledge it.
@Rick - you say that SK's can scum hunt in a genuine fashion, and that's accurate. But in a hypothetical world where I am the SK, it means there hasn't been any scum to hunt since Teh JeY died. Re-read my large re-read post at the end of yesterday, and try to gauge how genuine it feels - does it feel like I knew there were no scum left, or does it feel like I was trying to discern the mindset and motives of the players I was quoting?
@Void - You're almost certainly scum. You lost two scum on day one, and gambitted hard in hopes that it would carry you through to the end, cleared. But it's possible you're town, so if you are, I hope that you can read back through with a clear head, and present a compelling case on Rick.
But I don't think you are town.
Re-read time, will have large-ish post up either in a few hours or tomorrow.
Starting my reread. I will be casing both of you while doing vote count analysis amongst other things. I am leaning towards Voxx at the moment, but I will not vote until I am done with a full reread of this game.
Yeah, call it gut for now. But I have to state that I'm spread real thin with mafia right now, so I may be revising that opinion after I get a chance to reread.
Other people have asked me questions:
EtR: As opposed to the kind that has a vote that counts as two votes, rather than one who must cast two votes.
This is Megs jumping onto the EtR wagon with a poor reason at that. Megs makes it sound like the what EtR has done is only done by scum which is not the case.
We also have Megs calling for EtR’s lynch, but not until Dan has commented.
I've just discovered we have a deadline in 5 days.
This is a PTAP; I've been busy lately, my apologies. I'll see what I can do about content posts as soon as I take care of this thing for my class. Shouldn't take too long.
While I'm here, I think Tom is almost certainly town. He's being extremely bullheaded and is just wrong about a lot of stuff, which is his usual town M.O.
I would love to know who Megs knows that Tom is “wrong” here.
Megs gets disconnected from the game during the final moments of Day 1. Megs never replaces his votes and the Day ends with Megs never showing that he did a reread.
also I'm super tempted to just start using my main account at this point. I keep forgetting that I can only phone post on that account.................
Megs, in his last two votes, has voted swishh, but is now calling for my lynch without switching his vote over. The reasoning that Megs wants me lynched, gathered from this post, is WIFOM. The dead scum members showed hesitance towards my lynch. Do either of the situation firmly point to me being scum? No. Megs is applying pressure from a weak source.
I still need to reread this game. Now that Ataghan is done I think I can take some time to do that.
This post from Megs makes no sense. He’s voting swishh, but unvotes due to an investigation on another player. As far as megs knew, it was a gambit, but yet his response to my investigation claim is an immediate unvote of a player who he thought suspicious despite swishh throwing his PR around. This post more looks more like Megs is trying to find a reason to unvote swishh without anyone noticing.
I support Seppel's plan. If things go awry we can re-evaluate Tomorrow.
Megs does absolutely nothing to analyze the interactions between myself and AlphaInsidious. The only post previous to this one is where Megs claim above. And prior to that was his unvote of swishh.
Casting suspicions onto Voxx seems a little suspect to me, and I'm willing to reserve judgement on that.
I still have a strong scum read on k-j, but I'd like him to actually check in and respond to anyone before he does anything.
Beyond that, I'm terrible at reading noobs, so Swishh is either really bad town or really bad scum. I'm leaning towards him being scum, but that doesn't really mean much since, again, his play is soo poor, it's hard to imagine him actually being scum.
Something about Tom reads as off to me, but to be fair, I read him as scum all the time, so maybe I just don't like his playstyle.
That's all I've got for now. Off to do homework!
(second post is 735 again)
I've actually totally convinced myself on IB now. Let's lynch him ASAP.
Calls out IB saying “totally convinced myself”, but does not vote IB (confirmed scum).
I'm self-replacing due to forgetting about being Rick Santorum. My apologies.
To make it official, vote IB
Start of Day 3 and now Megs votes for IB. Looking above at the post where Megs was “totally convinced” of IB being scum makes that post rather WIFOMy. Would Megs be the type of player, as scum or SK, that he would intentionally leave his vote of off IB to avoid the distraction from AlphaInsidious’ wagon? Since I cannot answer this question either way I am going to have to leave this post for what is. WIFOM.
Logic: We had three kills N1. Two were claimed: AI's toughguy shot (confirmed) and Voxxicus's shot. Presumably the third was the scum kill.
Something just caught my attention in this post. We know that AlphaInsidious is confirmed scum, but how do we know that AlphaInsidious spoke the truth about his target? We don’t and yet Megs is calling it a confirmed action. Makes me wonder if Megs knows more about this than we do.
She pulled the knife from Swishh's back, looking back at the door. Unfortunately she missed and the boy screamed his head off before she managed to retract the blade and stab him again. He recoiled heavily from the pull and turned around to face his killer, only to be stricken in horror. "I... I really thought you were on our side! How could you...?" He muttered in gasps, though audibly enough.
JeY only snickered as she reared her arm back once again, plunging the knife into his eye socket. That did the trick, he fell over with a loud thump on the hardwood floor. She could hear the hurried footsteps down the hall, leading up to the room she led her victim to. She was the last, and she messed up. She was certain of her own fate, such that she put on as valiant as a display as possible.
The lock on the door probably wouldn't hold for long now. There was the frantic scuttling of trying to twist a rickety door handle that wouldn't turn, followed by a few pounds. "Open up!! Who's in there!? Who screamed!?" A very authoritative voice yelled. No reply from JeY. Bang number one... bang number two... bang number three... slight pause. JeY cocked her head to the side in confusion. Fourth bang came in more furious than ever, blasting the door open. There stood the whole group, Eron leading at the front. His eyes in reluctant shock.
"It was... you?" He said softly, somewhat in disbelief. The group had mixed opinions, not all were so surprised as some of the others. JeY simply pulled the bloody knife from the socket, stood back up and slowly brought the knife to her chin, pausing. She has the most malicious, psychotic and twisted grin on her face, before sticking her tongue out and running the knife across the spongy pink surface. She brought in the blood and swallowed casually.
Eron's eyes turned to rage. "And to think, I looked so pretty. What do you think... now?" She said, a shakiness in her voice that would show she was extremely nervous actually. She knew this was her end, and how it would end would not be pleasant. Eron's face now fitted with rage, he lunged, intending to land the final blow. This was it, the world leaders would finally be rid of their mistaken evil counterparts!
I'll leave the true ending to TC of course.
Was a pleasure playing. Like I said, after this semester's over I'l be around again to play =)
I kind of just want to lynch Voxxicus Today to get that possibility out of the way and regroup Tomorrow. However, I am thinking it's less likely that he actually is an SK as we go and more that the SK just ran into some combination of protects, RBs, and simulkills with the mafia along the way.
Or there's a 6th scum, which is actually the simplest solution to this issue, though another tricky one due to the high percentage of scum that we'd have in that case.
So much settling on the last unknown being a SK rather than Mafia, huh, Megs?
Anyway my Void case is basically "reread Day 1 and especially reread Cyouni's posts"
You would want to provide an incomplete case on me to prove I am SK… No Mafia… No SK… I‘m not sure anymore since you can’t keep your opinions straight…
I did post info: Read Cyouni's Day 1 posts. I found his interactions with void interesting.
That case never came on me. And rather show the Town what the interactions were between myself and Cyouni, Megs has everyone else go and do it. This is Megs putting suspicion on to me without showing any work for it. Megs has done this all game to me.
Voxx: No matter who we lynch Today we get at most two lynches.
D6: 5 alive
D7: 3 alive
Not sure how leaving Tom alive generates any more lynches.
Thank you, Megs, for showing Voxx’s town mind set. Any townie would be trying to find a way to add extra cushion should there be the need for some. This look really good for Voxx and really bad for Megs.
The funny thing is that we don't actually know that the two kills were mafia.
It could easily have been NK, SK, Vig.
And this post reveals Megs mind set. Earlier Megs claimed that AlphaInsidious shot was confirmed. Now Megs is saying that is not confirmed. This does not look good for Megs.
but anyway I think we just have a sixth mafiate at this point due to setup gaming and whatever
Megs changed his mind because of setup gaming and “whatever”. Megs was against Flavor Gaming earlier, but now he is gaming the setup which will only provide the same result as Flavor Gaming. Something he said we should not be using since EtR was lynched because of it.
Megs, you don't need to reply to the case. You have responsed to everything within at least once I believe. If you want to respond to everything you can.
I should be able to do realpost™ sometime on Thursday. Sorry, busy until then.
Void I actually have a few points of contention on your case that I would like to raise while I am here:
1. You did a good job of showing that I was being inattentive during the early portion (and arguably the latter portion) of the game, notably with the various contradictions you pointed out. However, I do not think you have demonstrated in any substantial way how that is attributable to me being an anti-town element.
2. You called my call for your lynch "WIFOM," but I do not think you are using this phrase appropriately. WIFOM is where you cannot make a judgment on an action because of the possibility that scum is deliberately playing into your assumptions. For example, if player A spends all Day attacking player B, and then player A ends up dead at Night, it would be WIFOM to assume that player B is scum. This actually happened this game, with RobRoy and Voxxicus. Using that to draw any conclusions is WIFOM. However, what I was noting appeared to be genuine reactions of curiosity—"why is he attacking Void?" Those motivations, especially Day 1 before any sort of collusion can happen, are significantly easier to read and I would argue that it is not WIFOM.
3. Your second WIFOM point is similarly nonsensical. We had caught scum in AI. My post was a direct response to this post from Seppel:
I'd like everyone to suggest who they think the remaining scum are.
Then we can go to night.
So, there's a clear reason why I didn't vote IB: We were lynching AI that Day for sure. Seppel asked who the other scum were, and I gave my suggestion. There's no WIFOM there whatsoever.
Class soon, so that's it for now. See you in a couple of days.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
It's the mindset that not using your vote has to come from.
Town actually wants to pressure people, generate reactions and use the only real tool that they have in order to do so - their vote. They have no fear of being held accountable for their voting or actions because... they are town.
That post and refusal to vote when it's not even a wagon yet rubs me the wrong way, to say the least.
Because what purpose does leaving your vote on no one serve as we break out of RVS?
I've touched on my thought process regarding mindsets in other games (Gotham Underground D1 in particular I think, maybe in Checks and Balances?) - and that what I look for is the absence of town mindsets.
This exchange with Voxx, EtR and LoT is very interesting knowing that LoT is Scum and that EtR is Town. LoT asks Voxx to confirm his suspicion of EtR, but when Voxx does, the reasoning given does not support a scum mind set. EtR would then explain his position/reasoning for not voting then. With EtR flipping town, this reflects negatively on Voxx. More so since this was Voxx first vote outside of RVS.
I have something resembling computer access again.
But am sleep deprived as all hell, just kind of a state of the union thing that I still exist in this game and don't need replaced, heh.
Should have some words either after a nap tonight or come morning.
These next two posts from Voxx are literally his next two posts following the one previous above these two. I understand being busy, but it would have been better for Voxx to replace out here. Fluff posting more than anything else here.
Because while there's new!town and new!scum, I don't have a solid enough read to either push for the lynch or draw conclusions on people pushing for their lynch.
My vote is on EtR from early in the game, which TCM had incorrect in votals, annnnnd
it's still going to be on EtR.
I think he's scum.
Part gut, part lack of town mindset in the initial post I pointed out, and part the....passive reaction to my post, where it's like he thought 'maybe if I ignore it it'll go away'.
To help clarify for the mod -
Unvote; Vote: EtR
The bolded really bothers me. There is no “if” clause there. So either Voxx has slipped here (since we know LoT and Captain Tyzmo are new!scum) or he wasn’t paying attention to what he typed here. Could be either one here unfortunately when you take into consideration the two previous posts. Sigh.
Voxx continues to call out EtR’s non-existent town mind set, but in reality EtR is showing a town mind set. EtR’s posts have been consistent and his defense was just that, a defense. The vote on EtR here looks very much forced.
I have a flip to work with. Usually it takes until night one for me to start being useful besides just tunneling the first obvious scum I see.
Re-read and analysis coming.
EtR is still scum though.
LoT probably is too.
Voxx is doing a great job of painting EtR as scum. Even with a flip and no reread, Voxx is still dead set on EtR being scum. I don’t see this as a town mind set. If Voxx were town, then a reread would happen first and then afterwards using the flip information along with EtR’s post would Voxx then be able to make a justified read on EtR.
Finally we have Voxx throwing slight suspicion onto the LoT (scum). This looks like Voxx preparing to jump onto the LoT wagon.
Rand is town. Attacked Captain in a genuine manner after Captain jumped on Lennon.
Lennon is either town or was getting bussed due to being painfully obvious new scum at the time (to his teammates).
EtR chainsaw defending Captain by attacking Rand makes me even happier with that lynch.
Vote: EtR because votals reset.
So now Voxx completes his reread of the game and not much changes… No matter who flips what alignment there will almost always be changes in a players read.
I looked back to find the chainsaw the defense that Voxx brought up about EtR, but I could not find it. Voxx, would you please quote the post you were referring too?
EtR (6): Seppel, Lord of Tresserhorn, Voxxicus, Rhand, Wessel, Tom
Anaklusmos (1): Tom
Cythare (1): Robroy
Not Voting (11): Cythare, Anaklusmos, Swishh, AlphaInsidious, Void, TeH Jey, Cyouni, EtR, Rick Santorum, Lennonmint80, Kill-joy.
With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch. There remains 14 days until the end of day 1 (I ended up moving the first deadline back a day).
Game is stagnating.
If EtR is town, mafia are just laying low and letting it happen.
If he's scum, they've apparently accepted that it's going to happen and aren't trying to spark an alternative push.
Unless someone wants to make a compelling case on someone else, I'd kind of like to move this game forwards so there's something to actually discuss.
~PreviewEdit~ I apparently missed AI's vote - EtR is at H-2.
So I guess we're waiting on a claim. Lovely.
Going back and looking at the vote count of the time when Voxx made this post we can see there is only one confirmed scum on the EtR wagon and that is LoT. The rest of the scum are not on the EtR wagon. Voxx makes the comment of “If EtR is town, mafia are just laying low and letting it happen.” I find it weirdly odd that Voxx posted this information when there was a lot of truth behind it. Inside information is a good possibility here.
With the deadline rapidly approaching, I think I still want to lynch Eron over the alternatives.
Void isn't someone I'm all that interested in. Too many people that I have scum reads on voting for him to be worth pushing through fairly quickly.
LoT is a possibility. I'd have zero problems with him and EtR both dying. They're both scum reads, and the recent distancing feels like just that. Seppel comes in, blows Captain up, and says we're lynching Eron. An early vote on him after the reset isn't terribly indicative of alignment, considering that.
But I think I ultimately still want to lynch Eron, despite feeling slightly conflicted by his resignation.
Unless enough people want to lynch Kill Joy instead, maybe.
Might have more thoughts tomorrow, but I'm extremely tired. Has been a stupidly long day.
Voxx talks about wanting to lynch EtR over LoT, but then later says he would be willing to lynch killjoy with the only reason provided was because killjoy was lurking. This post resembles someone flailing, but Voxx wasn’t under any pressure at the time.
My preference is EtR. KillJoy is probably second at this point, but LoT is more likely to go through. So just depends what kind of activity the game has for the next few days.
If anyone has any questions for me, I'll try to answer them. But this long, disjointed ramble is where the mindset comes from in my posts.
Voxx has gone from barely mentioning killjoy as a lurker to now wanting to lynch killjoy over LoT. He admits that it is not likely, but it still putting two townies ahead of a scum member.
Rhand has been doing his best ever since the Captain interaction to destroy the strong townread I had on him stemming from that.
Still think he's solidly town, because I can't see Rhand/Captain/EtR all being scum together, to say the least. But man.
The only thing that gives me any pause about the LoT lynch at the moment is the cluster of people that are voting for him over EtR.
Voxx really likes his waffles.
“The only thing that gives me pause” Either Voxx is extremely unlucky with his LoT interactions or he his scum himself. The latter is seeming more likely at the moment.
Rolecop. Still hurts, though. And three bodies means either there is another townie vig out there in addition to Seppel, the DEFINITELY TOWNIE VIG, or the scum got a bonus kill. I'm kind of guessing the latter... both dead scum were vanilla, so it wouldn't surprise me if the others were a Tough Guy and a Roleblocker. But if anyone wants to claim one of the dead bodies, I'm willing to listen.
On a related note, does the person who blocked me last night want to claim? I'm willing to listen to you too, although there is a distinct possibility I will want to lynch you afterwards.
That whole post is basically asking potentially town PR's to claim.
Dislike.
Voxx now twists RR’s post to fit his world that RR is hunting for Town PRs. This is could not be any further from the truth. RR is looking for Scum with his questioning. The entire context of his post leads to his question being about a Scum Role Blocker, not a Town Role Blocker.
Anak flipping town means I need to revisit some of my town reads, though, as there has to be scum hiding in there.
Possibilities are Teh JeY for promising content repeatedly but never delivering (and Cyouni dying, who was the only real vocal opposition to her), Ganderin_Dan (for the EtR push over LoT near end of that wagon) and maybe IB - it's plausible that Lennon really was just blatantly obvious scum and Captain and company tried to bus him for town credit.
Alpha makes me a little uneasy, but he was part of the early push on LoT opposing EtR. I only see him as possible scum if EtR is as well, and they were trying to get town credit by lynching a goon over a blocker or something. Wasn't willing to shoot.
IB had Captain jumping down his precursor's throat. Not vigging based on the plausibility of bussing going down - that's more a 'when other options are exhausted' thing to explore.
I considered Ganderin_Dan, but his reads matched up so well with mine, and there was that small meta-ish point in Cythare's favor - the 3-man scum team thing.
Voxx is calling Ganderin_Dan scum, then town in the same post? Voxx, please clairify this.
There were only two people I was willing to shoot.
And I prefer to vig people that help me figure the gamestate out, and lynch people that will generate more interactions.
Teh_JeY became 'possible' scum when Anak flipped town. Because that forced me to reevaluate my town reads, because obviously at least one scum had to be hiding in there.
Cyouni became a light town read after LoT's flip and my re-read. He was on the same tier as AI, where I could only see him being scum if it was with EtR, and they pushed LoT over EtR to gain town credit, and lynch a goon vs. power role.
My reads will change near constantly as more interactions and flips happen - as people I think are scum flip town, it means I have to re-evaluate my weaker town reads.
See, here's the problem I have. In your 696, you were answering the question of "Why did you shoot Anak?" And you detoured and talked about your current reads. But then, nearer the bottom of the page, you got back on the initial topic, and were obviously talking about why you didn't shoot specific people. For instance:
IB had Captain jumping down his precursor's throat. Not vigging based on the plausibility of bussing going down - that's more a 'when other options are exhausted' thing to explore.
I considered Ganderin_Dan, but his reads matched up so well with mine, and there was that small meta-ish point in Cythare's favor - the 3-man scum team thing.
From this point on, your listed thoughts are past tense. You are trying to tell us why you had considered people to vig. And Teh JeY is already on the list. The list of people you were considering to vig - before Cyouni publicly flipped.
Either you're scum, and that list was you covering instead of an honest recollection... or you're being incredibly sloppy in your retelling of your thought processes. I'm betting on the first option. vote: Voxxicus.
Casting suspicions onto Voxx seems a little suspect to me, and I'm willing to reserve judgment on that.
I still have a strong scum read on k-j, but I'd like him to actually check in and respond to anyone before he does anything.
Beyond that, I'm terrible at reading noobs, so Swishh is either really bad town or really bad scum. I'm leaning towards him being scum, but that doesn't really mean much since, again, his play is soo poor, it's hard to imagine him actually being scum.
Something about Tom reads as off to me, but to be fair, I read him as scum all the time, so maybe I just don't like his playstyle.
That's all I've got for now. Off to do homework!
This exchange between RR and IB is very telling when you look at the whole picture. At the time of RR casting his vote on Voxx there was no one prior voting Voxx. RR did a good job of pointing out why Voxx should have some pressure. IB simply tried to distract from Voxx and then reserved judgment on why. IB never did state why although I believe it’s clear as to why at this point.
Possibilities are Teh JeY for promising content repeatedly but never delivering (and Cyouni dying, who was the only real vocal opposition to her), Ganderin_Dan (for the EtR push over LoT near end of that wagon) and maybe IB - it's plausible that Lennon really was just blatantly obvious scum and Captain and company tried to bus him for town credit.
Kill Joy is my only remaining actual scum read and after that I'm not sure where I want to go.
Rick becomes possible scum again with Anak being town, I suppose, but my gut still says he's town for how he reacted regarding my request on day one. Possible WiFOM, etc, but wasn't willing to shoot him over it. Even if it was tempting just so I didn't have to play with him. But I Play To Win and such.
Based on Voxx's last post, I'm not considering him as potential day vig. Plus I think his judgment is better than to shoot any of the towns who died.
Uhh. I've already claimed to have shot Anaklusmos. Scum/Neutral are presumably responsible for the other two, given no one has spoken up and Seppel apparently is our full vig.
But.
I need to re-read. Again.
I was pretty set on Kill Joy being scum. So there being 2-3 scum out of this list:
Rick Santorum
Rhand
Swishh
Tom
Void
InfectiousBaloth
Ganderin_Dan
RobRoy
Teh_JeY
AlphaInsidious
EtR
perplexes me as to where to start.
Every one of them has something about their play or interactions this game that made me consider them unlikely scum. But I'm out of other options, so it's time to dig deeper I guess.
Will post notes/results of re-read upon completion, either tonight or tomorrow.
I went back and pulled up Voxx’s list of “Who I chose to shoot and why with reads” post from Day 2. In that post he claimed that Teh JeY, Ganderin_Dan, IB, killjoy and Santorum as possible suspects. Killjoy being the actual scum read.
Later in Day 2 Voxx posts the second quote you see and mentioned that he is out of options. I fail to see how Voxx is out of options when his previous post has plenty of options for him to go off of.
I'm also doing more than VC analysis. I found something very interesting about one of you and plan to reveal that as well. But first, I need a time machine.
I voted for for this post very early on. It was a serious vote, because void was unvoting for no reason, which raised a flag.
Later on we have the multi-scum pileup starting with my post 79. Void suggests this is WIFOM, I look at it more as catching a bunch of newb scum with their pants down (I think this was the first scum game for all of JeY, LoT, and Tyzmo).
I found that void was ignoring me a lot here, which was also a flag. People that try to handwave and ignore things until they go away are often doing so for a reason (read: because they are scum).
No votes here despite having two good candidates. More interesting is Lennon's response post "you're quick to jump on my back." Obviously that was an overreaction to light pressure (not even a vote, as I suggested). However, I am wondering if this was a buddy mad at another buddy getting on his case. This is unclear.
A little while later we have void's response to the people voting lennon. I find his approach here strange. First he is clearly on the offensive, with an aggressive bash on Lennon, but he immediately turns around and says that lennon's just low-hanging fruit, without explaining why, and votes (plus a fos) on the two people who did vote for lennon. The argument for voting anak is really tenuous, as well.
Void's new nickname is softball pitching machine. Like, really now, this is a series of the two softest balls possible for our newbie scum to hit.
221 contains a few points of interest. First is a continuation of the softball treatment of the newb scum. The second I must ask about: void: How did you know that JeY was from another site? When did she tell you this?
Tyzmo's question to void there is also weird. Looking for approval?
General thoughts up to this point: Void likes pointing out a lot of potentially scummy behaviors without committing votes or follow-through to them. He also is basically walking the newb scum through the game through a series of softball questions. Let's get back to it:
Here he implies lennon is scum (when talking about coaching) but still doesn't say he thinks he is explicitly.
Remember this? Would you mind explaining what you were talking about here? I presume that the game in question has ended by this point.
next few posts are boring blah blah blah
I'll repost this post I made rather than resummarize. Read the posts prior. I found what I thought to be a contradiction in mindset here. This is the thing that Cyouni was noticing as well, which was my "case" on void Yesterday.
Void never responds to this, instead choosing to try and clear lennon using Tyzmo's posts.
We have a seppelquote about void emulating his towngame here. I think I've played with scum void twice, I honestly forget if I've played with him as town.
He does have a good point about RobRoy's post feeling forced, though—it did.
The request for a name claim came from Seppel. Seeing as Seppel entered the game by vigging scum, and scum that nobody was looking into at the moment at that, I would say that Seppel is as close to confirmed town as we're going to get at the moment. So at this point I take a request from Seppel as a request from town.
Because Seppel killed scum you believe him to be town. While the razor does point in that direction Seppel is far from confirmed town.
Would you please list your top suspects for me?
You're getting close to the world record of worst mafia posts in a single game of mafia.
It's also topical!
Finally, a vote! Seppel claims that this vote was based on "factually incorrect" information.
Given my current thoughts on Void up to this point I find this post particularly amusing.
General thoughts up to this point: Void is still dodging a lot of questions and handwaving when called on it. It feels like he tried to engineer a bus on LoT with his "factually incorrect" vote, as well as the trap he set with the "without revealing your role" quote.
Oh hey, let's take a brief aside:
There is a series of posts starting here with Seppel's case on Voxxicus that deserve a closer look. It's possible that Voxx's townie behavior (in my opinion) has more holes than I thought. On the other hand, I myself have been very flaky for activity-related reasons this game, so I have to keep that in mind. Either way it's worth noting this for later.
-------
So that's the void D1 review. Summary? Weird, weird interactions with all of the newb scum, compared with his interactions with town. It's possible I'm just seeing what I want to see, so it would be good if Voxxicus could fact check me.
Void I did ask you one direct question here, please answer that. Also if you locate any other things to discuss, that would be good.
I'm out of time for today. The D2 and beyond review will have to wait until tomorrow I think.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Megs, knock that **** off. You are yet do ANYTHING on this current Day. Same with Voxx.
Come back and say that **** when you have actually done something toDay!
Also my "slowroll" comment was meant to be in jest, so apologies if you thought I was attempting to attack you on that. None of us have the greatest activity level this game, so.
However, my question about how you can say I've done nothing Today still stands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
@Mod Hate to do this, but V:LA 2 more days. Things ended up being more serious than expected, and I won't be able to commit to posting until weekend. Spending all free time during week at hospital. If I don't post by Sunday, please replace me.
Megs, knock that **** off. You are yet do ANYTHING on this current Day. Same with Voxx.
Come back and say that **** when you have actually done something toDay!
Also my "slowroll" comment was meant to be in jest, so apologies if you thought I was attempting to attack you on that. None of us have the greatest activity level this game, so.
However, my question about how you can say I've done nothing Today still stands.
I confess that frustration got the better of me yesterday... and today is not looking any better. RL hit me very hard this morning and I will not be a stable mind all day because of it. I will get the VC analysis done, but do not expect to interact much today.
Lord of Tresserhorn (10): Void, AlphaInsidious, EtR, Cyouni, Swishh, Tom, Seppel, infectiousbaloth, Voxxicus, ganderin_dan
And the posts from the three of us were we had voted for added analysis:
Funny, Megs didn’t make any comments on the LoT wagon, but pushed for the EtR wagon. During the EtR/LoT events all Megs did what say he needed to reread and unvoted EtR. Here are Megs posts after players started switching to the LoT wagon:
I started reading the thread without many pre-established views on people, and decided who to pursue based on the notes I had on everyone when finished reading. Voxx had the largest number of scum notes and no town notes, so I chose him.
I didn't have a read on Voxx before the reread, apart from the conversation with Rick that I disliked.
So that's not it. I must just be bad at assessing posts if my reads are so far off.
For the record, the people that come out as scummiest in my notes are Voxxicus > Anaklusmos > Killjoy > RobRoy > Swishh > Rick Santorum.
I'm not on board with lynching LoT.
How did my conversation with Vox result in you thinking we are buddies?
Will post tomorrow after deciding what I think regarding the Eron/LoT recent happenings.
My initial reads had them as scum together. It's still at least possible, with them attempting to distance and get one of them cleared via false dichotomy.
But I need to be less drugged up from having some dental work done to actually think clearly.
With the deadline rapidly approaching, I think I still want to lynch Eron over the alternatives.
Void isn't someone I'm all that interested in. Too many people that I have scum reads on voting for him to be worth pushing through fairly quickly.
LoT is a possibility. I'd have zero problems with him and EtR both dying. They're both scum reads, and the recent distancing feels like just that. Seppel comes in, blows Captain up, and says we're lynching Eron. An early vote on him after the reset isn't terribly indicative of alignment, considering that.
But I think I ultimately still want to lynch Eron, despite feeling slightly conflicted by his resignation.
Unless enough people want to lynch Kill Joy instead, maybe.
Might have more thoughts tomorrow, but I'm extremely tired. Has been a stupidly long day.
So first I want to address some OOG-ish stuff. I work near 80 hour work weeks, and frequently have to leave town for a few days at a time. I probably should not be playing mafia, but I both enjoy the community here, and love the game itself. Just my activity comes in bursts, and it can be hard to summon the motivation to post through the sheer exhaustion.
What's getting labeled as 'stalling' is mostly that - it's not stalling, it's just trying to make a post to keep myself invested in the game, or it'd be extremely easy to fall into a vicious cycle where 'I'll post tomorrow' and tomorrow never comes. If people think my activity isn't where it should be to play the game, I'll replace out. But it's not indicative of my alignment, and never will be.
With that semi-rant over, I'll try to recreate the post I made...yesterday? Two days ago? I don't even know. It's been a long week.
There has been some of what I've said that's been misunderstood, and some of what I've said that I just... haven't felt the need to fully explain, because it's not relevant to the lynch I want to happen at the moment.
Contrary to what my slightly sparse posts might seem, I have been taking notes, and I do have a pretty good grasp on what I think the gamestate is. I'm going to go through the notes and explain my mindset for some of the posts people have been questioning.
This is something I do in almost every large game, and it's fairly effective.
I start the game with a list of the players.
Voxxicus
EtR
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
MandersHex
Tom
Rhand
Captain Tyzmo
Lennon
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Donasdux
TeH JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
My first actual note for the game was when Seppel replaced in: "Whee, Captain scum. Seppel is either town or a Day SK, and it ultimately doesn't matter which right now. He's not mafia."
Updated list:
Voxxicus
Seppel
EtR
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rhand
Lennon
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Donasdux
TeH JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare Captain Tyzmo
Next I went back and started looking at Captain interactions to see if I could identify anyone that was likely town/scum based on them.
Lennon was the obvious first place to look: "Lennon is probbbbably town.
Potential for him to be scum getting bussed out of the gate for being obvious scum though.
Buttt I think he's likely newb town."
Voxxicus
Seppel
Lennon
EtR
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rhand
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Donasdux
TeH JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare Captain Tyzmo
Next was Rhand (and EtR): "Rhand is probably town. Can't see scum jumping on their own in the manner he did. EtR also attacking Rhand makes Rand even more town - classic chainsaw defense."
This is why I've been pretty set on an EtR lynch. One of my first posts of the game noted that I did not think EtR was coming from a town mindset, and then he aggressively tunnels into someone that was attacking Captain, who flips scum. Even after the Captain flip he still tunneled into Rhand, which doesn't feel like town who is taking flips and interactions into account. It feels like scum trying to get a mislynch.
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Lennon
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Donasdux
TeH JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
EtR Captain Tyzmo
Next up is a read that I haven't made public prior to this. Because he's not someone I wanted to lynch, or someone I wanted to make wary due to knowing he was being watched closely.
Cyouni: "Cyouni is making my skin crawl.
Very..deliberate and cautious.
Extremely likely scum, but not going to pursue yet. Watching itneractions."
This was earlier in the game, and I feel a tiny bit better about Cyouni now than I did. But he's still not a town read.
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Lennon
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Teh JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
Cyouni
EtR Captain Tyzmo
Wessel was next up: "Wessel reads logical but something feels off in the way he tried to cast doubt on my EtR posts. Worth examining if EtR flips scum, but is...probbbbably town."
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Lennon
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Teh JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
Cyouni
EtR Captain Tyzmo
RobRoy: "RobRoy interaction with Captain feels semi-genuine. Hum. Okay."
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Lennon
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Teh JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
Cyouni
EtR
Captain Tyzmo
"Tom probably town due to doublevoter (and EtR pressure).
Inclined to agree that Cythare is likelytown, too."
I should note that I don't remember what I was agreeing with with regards to Cythare here. I think it was Wessel pointing out the townslip he made about number of people in scum team? Might want to reevaluate that slot later in the game, but isn't something I'm worried about now.
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Tom
Lennon
Wessel
Cythare
Robroy
Kill-joy
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Teh JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cyouni
EtR Captain Tyzmo
"Teh JeY is probably town. Ish. Void is also probably town... with more ish."
Can't really explain the JeY read. Mix of gut and just feeling like a town mindset in some posts. Void is more solidly town now than he was then - the way people are pushing him when EtR/LoT are options is all kinds of skeevy and makes him feel better.
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Tom
Lennon
Wessel
Cythare
Robroy
Teh_JeY
Void
Kill-joy
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cyouni
EtR Captain Tyzmo
Right around here is when I asked Rick_Santorum the question where I wanted him to give reads on a cluster of people. I did not have a read on him at the time, and wanted to see how he responded. Of the people in the 'unknown' category, I thought he'd be the most likely to give a response that was indicative of his alignment, and maybe help me make a decision on the alignments of the people I mentioned, too.
Ultimately while his response made me make several extremely profanity laden raging posts in my notes, I think he's solidly town. If only because scum just aren't going to be so blatant about refusing a simple request - they're more likely to over-explain reads that can't really be formed than to do what he did.
(But yeah I was very much livid after that exchange and needed a few days away from game so I didn't flip out in the thread)
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rick Santorum
Rhand
Tom
Lennon
Wessel
Cythare
Robroy
Teh_JeY
Void
Kill-joy
Lord of Tresserhorn
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cyouni
EtR Captain Tyzmo
This is the last list I had in my notes, and should look somewhat familiar. It's the game state I had in my mind recently and was operating off of. I thought, and still think that all of the scum are in that bottom list of 8.
Seppel made this post:
Quote from Seppel »
Rest of the scum are likely lurking.
Killjoy, Tresserhorn, et others.
I responded with:
Quote from Voxxicus »
Probably.
Those two names in particular, too.
With Alpha and Anak being other possibilities.
I didn't mention Swishh, because I'm much less sold on him. Part of that is the EtR interaction early in the thread, part of it is gut saying he's just derping town. He's still a Not Town read, but not something I feel like pursuing.
Just answering this while I see it:
Quote from Seppel »
Note that we never hear you talk about Alpha or Anak ever again.
You don't even propose alternatives:
I think this is just a difference in playstyle. I really, really don't feel the need to attack every possible scum read I have at once. I narrow the gamestate down, and pick off one at a time, re-evaluating the gamestate after every flip. Talking ourselves in circles is not productive.
So that's where I stood when I was looking at Seppel's vote analysis post.
At the time, there were 3 lynch options. EtR, LoT, and Void. I wasn't interested in trying to run someone up with like 3 days left in the day. So I just commented on the three in a somewhat stream of consciousness fashion.
I was not interested in the Void lynch mainly due to who was voting him. You interpreted that as meaning currently, when I said that while looking at your vote analysis post:
ON THE VOID WAGON: RobRoy, Killjoy
Void (2) Rick Santorum, Swishh
I think RobRoy and Rick are pretty solid town, but KillJoy and Swishh aren't town reads.
The interesting thing is this wagon:
ON THE ERON WAGON: Seppel, LoT, Voxx, Rhand, Wessel, JeY, Swish, Alpha, Rick/Megs
You called the wagon garbage, which I kinda strongly disagree with. There's only three people on there I don't think are town - LoT's early hop is not indicative of alignment considering it came right after you killed scum, and then started the EtR wagon. Also the Swish/Alpha grouping late on it is a pretty reasonable bussing cluster.
I don't have nearly as many town reads voting for LoT, and I'm not sure what that means.
ON THE LOT WAGON: Void, Alpha, Eron, Cyouni, Tom
Does it make LoT more likely town if EtR is scum? Or was it just a place they felt they could distance, due to the EtR lynch still being more likely at that point? I don't know, and would need to re-read that whole section again after we get a flip to provide better analysis.
I want to lynch EtR. I had some doubts after the appeal to emotion spiel, where it felt kind of like town resigned to his death. I'm a little more ambivalent about a LoT lynch, if only because of the cluster of iffy people that hopped on that in opposition to EtR.
Obviously I don't support my own lynch, because I'm town, and people are being dumb.
I would be okay with a Kill Joy lynch, though that's probably something I'd rather explore tomorrow, than try to run up late in the day with deadline approaching.
EtR
LoT
KillJoy
Cyouni
Anaklusmos
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
There's 3-4 scum in that grouping. You accused me of not proposing an alternative, when I don't want to propose an alternative. Someone I don't have a town read on was getting lynched, and that's good enough for me.
So pull your head out of your ass, and lynch either EtR, LoT, or KillJoy. I'm not the droid you are looking for. Or something.
My preference is EtR. KillJoy is probably second at this point, but LoT is more likely to go through. So just depends what kind of activity the game has for the next few days.
If anyone has any questions for me, I'll try to answer them. But this long, disjointed ramble is where the mindset comes from in my posts.
Rhand has been doing his best ever since the Captain interaction to destroy the strong townread I had on him stemming from that.
Still think he's solidly town, because I can't see Rhand/Captain/EtR all being scum together, to say the least. But man.
I guess I'll address the 'wanted to lynch LoT for having a similar view that I had' thing.
I don't have a great explanation for that, other than my gut reaction to that post was that it was horrible and I wanted to set him on fire.
I don't exactly give any thoughts to what my own posts read like to other people, and was kind of thinking out loud regarding Eron a bit later. I think it was later, anyways. My thought process at the time went like 'Not sure if they're both scum and he wants to try and get lynch off Eron, while still getting town credit if it goes through, or if LoT is scum and still wants the lynch to happen while making it seem like he has doubts to be more town'.
Which was where the gut 'maybe we should just lynch LoT instead' reaction came from immediately after the post.
The only thing that gives me any pause about the LoT lynch at the moment is the cluster of people that are voting for him over EtR.
I'd like an updated vote tally I think, with things in chronological order if possible? Or I can not be lazy and do it myself, but I have to head out here in a few minutes.
He needs prodded, and needs to claim - if the claim is something we deem worth keeping him alive for, we need enough time remaining in the day to determine an alternate course of action. And not rush a speedlynch through.
Still doesn't change the fact that he botched the flavor that would presumably be in his role PM.
I'm willing to lynch him. If he didn't actually provide any commentary on the gamestate in that post, after not really posting for a week, I can't imagine he's going to.
Vote: LoT
Voxx jumps onto the wagon for reasoning that is very weak compared to what others had brought forward. And that is Voxxicus’ final post of Day 1. No post from Voxxicus during Twilight.
These last few posts from EtR feel so sincere, I'm a little afraid of the outcome of this lynch. But in a sense, EtR himself is keeping my vote on him. He's right in saying that we have no other clear suspects. Certainly nobody with a great case made against them. The only thing in the past few posts from EtR that I don't like is him saying that it would be okay if I died, but I think that's just because I don't want to die. I'm not sure what my point really is here, as I've been drinking a bit tonight, but mostly I just wanted to put it out there that the last few posts from EtR are making me a bit nervous.
Would you mind explaining why you don't want to die without revealing information about your role?
These last few posts from EtR feel so sincere, I'm a little afraid of the outcome of this lynch. But in a sense, EtR himself is keeping my vote on him. He's right in saying that we have no other clear suspects. Certainly nobody with a great case made against them. The only thing in the past few posts from EtR that I don't like is him saying that it would be okay if I died, but I think that's just because I don't want to die. I'm not sure what my point really is here, as I've been drinking a bit tonight, but mostly I just wanted to put it out there that the last few posts from EtR are making me a bit nervous.
Would you mind explaining why you don't want to die without revealing information about your role?
That's not why I don't want to die. I don't want to die because I'm enjoying the game. If I were brought to claim-range I would obviously claim.
Also, I'd like to make it clear that I still believe EtR is scum. It's only in his last few posts that he's felt less scummy. I do however still support this lynch.
Uhm... I added the role information at the end of the question so that you didn't mistakenly give out any role information. I did not say nor mean that your role was the reason why you didn't want to die... I'm not sure you purposely misrepresented what I said or you truly believe that I meant your role was the reason for being However, you're response was more telling about you than what I was expecting.
You just went from calling Eron's post "sincere" to "less scummy than before". And you also said "I'm a little afraid of the outcome of this lynch" which shows you believe Eron to be town in that statement, but then say "I support his lynch". You've also waffled quiet a bit on Eron as well.
Unvote Vote: LoT
Please list your top suspects with reasoning.
I would add comments here, but since this is me I don’t want anything to come out biased.
These last few posts from EtR feel so sincere, I'm a little afraid of the outcome of this lynch. But in a sense, EtR himself is keeping my vote on him. He's right in saying that we have no other clear suspects. Certainly nobody with a great case made against them. The only thing in the past few posts from EtR that I don't like is him saying that it would be okay if I died, but I think that's just because I don't want to die. I'm not sure what my point really is here, as I've been drinking a bit tonight, but mostly I just wanted to put it out there that the last few posts from EtR are making me a bit nervous.
Would you mind explaining why you don't want to die without revealing information about your role?
That's not why I don't want to die. I don't want to die because I'm enjoying the game. If I were brought to claim-range I would obviously claim.
Also, I'd like to make it clear that I still believe EtR is scum. It's only in his last few posts that he's felt less scummy. I do however still support this lynch.
Uhm... I added the role information at the end of the question so that you didn't mistakenly give out any role information. I did not say nor mean that your role was the reason why you didn't want to die... I'm not sure you purposely misrepresented what I said or you truly believe that I meant your role was the reason for being However, you're response was more telling about you than what I was expecting.
You just went from calling Eron's post "sincere" to "less scummy than before". And you also said "I'm a little afraid of the outcome of this lynch" which shows you believe Eron to be town in that statement, but then say "I support his lynch". You've also waffled quiet a bit on Eron as well.
Unvote Vote: LoT
Please list your top suspects with reasoning.
I totally read that part about role information wrong. Now I see what you meant there. My response about not wanting to die still stands though.
EtR's posts looking sincere is why he seems less scummy than before. I haven't changed my position on EtR because it's going to take more than a few good posts to outweigh what preceded them. In other words, I went from being something like 90% sure EtR is scum to being around 80%. It doesn't make EtR not scum, it makes me a little less certain. 80% is pretty sure, but not so sure that I don't fear the outcome if I'm wrong.
My top suspect is EtR still, and the reasoning is still the case on Rhand and the response to criticism of that case.
Why are you using the same percentages that Seppel has used?
I reread Voxxicus's bigpost from Yesterday and was struck by how similarly we think about Void this game.
Anyway, if activity doesn't pick up (RL sucks, I know), I'll probably just go with my gut and vote Void. Before that, I at least need to finish my D2->Present Void review, though.
bubububububububububu
voxxicus provided a lot of analysis Yesterday but I think it would be good to see some more Today.
I'll also note that Void failed this test:
Quote from Meg »
I will review Void later, as I said. I have been tunneling him since Day one and am not willing to place a vote until I have actually put the time into it.
Going in I will be asking myself the question, "what do I need to see to convince myself that Void is actually town?" I know what I need to see, which is Day 1 interactions that do not indicate scum behavior. Anything after Day 1 is part of the hypothetical master plan to bus his whole team and become a cleared "town PR," so it would need to be evaluated more carefully, but even then I can look for genuine interactions over fabricated ones.
Day 1 was filled with weirdness from Void, as I stated, with all sorts of interactions that look like coaching and the simul defend/attack posts (as Vox noted).
Anyway, I might be able to do the rest of the review tonight, we'll see.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
#179 - Kill Joy gives LoT town points.
#229 - Commentary on Void being likely town (or possibly neutral. Woo, fearmongering)
#519 - Votes Void because...
Quote from Kill Joy »
The way this is worded, you seem to be trying to paint LoT's decision that Seppel is town because he killed scum as a bad thing. No, Seppel is not CONFIRMED, sure. But what other conclusion should we come to for someone on D1 who killed a scum?
This all just feels like you're trying to take town points from people who earned them, is what I'm trying to say.
Chainsaw defending flipped scum onto someone he'd conceeded was probably town due to effort/mindset earlier in the game is yeah.
RR
Are you forgetting the god awful post killjoy provided during the heat of the LoT wagon that tried to distract from the LoT wagon to put momentum towards me with an awful reason and vote?
(2) Tom and g_d: why are you questioning voxx's town read on me? As far as I remember I haven't been an FoS since the very beginning of day 1.
(3)Mod, can we get a vote count some time? Mostly just so I can get a clearer idea of who's left in the game.
1. "reserving your vote" meaning? Do you have somebody you want to be voting for? It's unclear what you are saying here.
2. You're acting way too self-conscious here. Why do you care what Voxxicus thinks about you? The fact that you can pinpoint that you "haven't been a FoS" since the beginning of the game is telling me that you're, you know, paying a lot of attention to what people think of you. Why is this?
so you would like to lynch... uh, whoever it is that people are voting for right now?
You didn't answer why you care about what Voxxicus thinks of you. I'll grant that recalling you were under pressure is not bad. I remember somebody getting mad at me for some reason Yesterday too. Maybe that is reaching on my part. But I think my question about Voxxicus's read stands.
AlphaInsidious may have weak Day 1's, but this game is an exception to that rule.
How so? I don't understand what you're implying...
Clearly you think I'm scum, so then how does that line up with this game being an exception to my usual meta?
AlphaInsidious assumed that I am using meta to determine to his alignment. While that is one interpretation of that post there is also another.
I'm going to claim a portion of my role and that is that I Copped AlphaInsidious last night. The result did no favors to him. Either AlphaInsidious is a part of the Mafia or he is the SK. But I decided to test the waters here:
It would seem to place Vox in a position of likely town or SK. I don't see mafia claiming their kill regardless of the situation; compounded by the fact that Vox went from denying his hand in the kill to making it public knowledge in 6 posts flat, simply because a few voices asked the party to claim.
Doesn't make sense from a mafia perspective to me.
I do not see this response coming from a SK. I purposely asked AlphaInsidious to respond to Voxx’s claim for this reason. I wanted to see who I was dealing with. I commented back to AlphaInsidious, bolding the “mafia perspective” portion raising an eyebrow because, at that point, I knew that AlphaInsidious is scum this game. I then attempted to inform the town of my findings without being to point blank about it. Here are those posts:
But seriously, I guess you just misunderstood what I said. This is what happens to AI in basically all his games. You're just going through the motions.
I'm not misunderstanding anything. And I'm not "going through the motions" as you put it either. You're are a likely candidate to be a scum buddy of AlphaInsidious.
Seppel
I was merely pointing out to Rhand that his reasoning wasn't correct. I'm not focusing on swishh so much. I'm far more interested in AlphaInsidious and ganderin_dan.
AI always has weak D1s. We should give him at least until mid D2 to impress us.
AlphaInsidious may have weak Day 1's, but this game is an exception to that rule.
I'm still working on my reread of the game, but it is from the view point of AlphaInsidious being scum. I will post my notes when I am done with the read.
AlphaInsidious, your time has come. You are scum and need to die.
This is not my voting post, but this is the reasoning for my vote. I would later hammer AI.
I'm not getting sent overseas for work! I also might have more free time now.
But, I also have some bad news.
I'm not the SK, so lynching me is dumb.
(I'm not fully caught up, I just skimmed through things quick to see if I'd been replaced or not).
I'll full claim if I get run up, but I'd still rather not prior to that.
I will direct this at Seppel - what possible motivation would a SK (who generally has to be last man standing) have to claim he killed someone when a day vig was outed, and /three/ bodies had appeared that night? There's effectively zero chance I make it to the end after I claim killing capability. I was guaranteed to either be lynched, daykilled by you, or shot by scum for being a power role prior to then.
I think there might be a SK. But if there was, it was the person responsible for Wessel or Cyouni.
I'll finish up the re-read post I had been working on either later tonight or (more likely), tomorrow. Going out with my fiancee to celebrate not, y'know. Getting shipped off to bat**** nowhere.
(Preview Edit) - I see there are more votes on me. Stop that. You're being bad.
I'm not fully caught up, because I've been in and out of the hospital the last few days. It's not me, but it's a family member, and fairly serious.
I think I'd like to continue playing, as it'll be something to keep my mind off things, but it will probably be another 2-3 days until I can compile a post with actual thoughts.
I'm Dwight Eisenhower, and I'm just a one-shot vig.
I'm vanilla now, and if people want to lynch me, I guess I really don't care at this point. I wanted to create some ambiguity with my role earlier and potentially draw the night kill, before Seppel got inexplicable tunnel vision on 'the dude that claimed credit for the kill and has been putting a fair bit of effort into the game must be the SK'. Well. I 'had' been putting effort in, before Real Life kicked me in the testicles, I guess.
Have Rhand track me if you want, and if he claims I target anyone, can lynch me, and then him afterwards.
My notes say that Eron is almost certain mafia if AI is mafia, btw, Seppel.
I really don't have time to quote things, but don't write him off due to the AtE like you did Caex in that....other game that just finished.
AI pushed the LoT lynch in opposition to Eron, when the only way that makes any sense from a mafia perspective is if Eron was a mafia power role and Eron/AI were trying to get town credit lynching a goon.
Or AI is our SK. Because it's not me.
I should be back around in 2-3 days and able to answer all questions, as well as dump a decent analysis post. Rather be able to do it and bounce ideas off Seppel before he gets shot in the face, and we still have some time left before deadline.
It's probably the fact that he's been repeatedly saying that 'this is Voxx's town game' for most of the game.
Admittedly, the fact that that, and tunneling into EtR is almost all he's done is a little suspect, especially given that he seems to have dropped the EtR thing with no reasoning.
But yeah, I'm fully caught up now, even if I have to head out for a meeting in about 10 minutes, but wanted to dash off a post before twilight potentially ends.
If we are looking for a 5th mafiate (mafioso?), I think my preference is currently something along the lines of this:
EtR > Ganderin_Dan > Teh_JeY > Tom > Rick > Swishh = Void = Rhand > Seppel
I encourage people to re-read how the EtR and LoT wagon swap happened - I struggle to see the scum motivation in AI's push on LoT, unless EtR was a stronger scum role (blocker? hitman?). My notes from my initial re-read had AI as pretty solidly town unless it was with EtR, and I kind of want to revisit that.
But you can build a reasonable case on Dan or JeY as well, and it's realistically just PoE and finishing it out at this point.
Scum doublevoter possibility kind of scares me. Like, I think he's probably town, but he's less certain town than the Seppel/Swishh/Void/Rhand cluster.
Random thought: I had a super strong town read on Void because people were pushing him over LoT and at weird times.
But like...who all was pushing Void this game? Kill Joy, RobRoy, Rick, Swishh? I don't think any of the scum actually were pushing that which is kind of perplexing.
I don't think it actually /means/anything, but just was a weird quirk of how the game unfolded that occurred to me.
But right. Work meeting. Just wanted to put my thoughts on things out there, but I'd be okay with the following plan:
Here's the start of a back and forth between RobRoy and Cythare, where RobRoy is pressuring Lennon, and Cythare intervenes a bit.
This feels sort of genuine, armed with the knowledge that LoT and AI were scum. As in, I have trouble seeing Tom also being scum. Doesn't necessarily preclude Tom from being a neutral, admittedly - but no interaction is going to solidify that as a possibility.
Cythare/Teh_JeY interaction. Pointing out aggression but not doing anything about it is a thing. Maybe. I dunno. Gut tells me that it's a point in Cythare/Dan's favor, though.
Flipped scum questioning why Rick wants to lynch Void. Also doubtcasting Swishh for quickly following Rick onto Void, which is hm.
Void/Lennon interaction. I can see this as being Void as town or Void as scum. Not conclusive, just worth noting.
[B]And here's the infamous 3-man scum team quote.[/B]
Bolding and enlarging it for posterity. I mean...there's the fact that he's /wrong/ about all three, but early in day one that's not precisely damning. I don't really know what to make of it. I want to write him off as town for this alone, but it's just one drop in the bucket - there are other interactions that make me go ergh later on.
For the record, here was his response to the 3-man scumteam thing:
Tom/Lennon interactions. Another point against Tom being part of the scum team - but yeah, doesn't preclude neutral-ness, blah blah blah.
Also, Cyouni's #128 got him shot in the face, methinks. Unrelated to this, but yeah. Saw that and kind of laughed.
Teh_JeY was also extremely scummy in retrospect. Hrm. The things that knowledge of alignment does for re-reads.
This whole post by Void is weird. It's like he's pressuring Lennon, but then attacking anyone else that attacks him. It's kind of blatant but mrgle.
Cytharepost - of note is the chainsaw defense of Lennon, and 'not seeing' the attack on Teh_JeY.
/barn this. Teh JeY's (May I shorten this to TJ for easier typing?) reminds me of my play when I first started playing. This is not to say the Teh JeY is certainly town or scum, but the type of posting I am seeing makes reading Teh JeY much easier.
The bolded: If Teh JeY is town, then why wouldn't she want to know what is fishy about her posts when she is not familiar with are meta?[/QUOTE]
Void defending Teh_JeY. Kind of. Or at least approving?
(Note: Still can't believe Kill Joy was town. Seriously. He's twigging my scumdar like mad even on this re-read, knowing that he's town)
Here's a post from Wessel that explains the Cythare 3-man-scumteam-slip thing a bit more. Yeah, yeah, I keep harping on it. But it's hard to shake.
Voidpost...more defense of Teh_JeY. Interaction with LoT, where he says he wishes he had two votes? Hm. Possible distancing.
I find the last part interesting too - he's attacking people that are attacking Lennon, but doesn't think he's town? The whole premise of his vote on Anak at the time was that he was attacking low hanging fruit (Lennon). Ugh.
And then the Anak scumchat 'slip' happened and hm. Yeah I'm not quoting all this. Might be worth a re-read if you need a refresher on it. It does read kind of oddly, like he's both defending and attacking Anak at the same time.
Probbbbbably a point in Void's favor, here? Reeks of scum on town buddying. I think. **** it's late and I'm tired.
Just quoting this because it's awesome and deserves to be quoted.
Heh. God's *****.
Voidpost on Tyzmo/Lennon, sticking Lennon into town category. Worth noting, even if it's hardly conclusive, since pretty much everyone wrote Lennon off as town due to the interactions.
[B]This is why Rick is town.[/B] Extreme lack of self-preservation or self-awareness. The back and forth continues for a while, and had me in a rage for a bit. I was pretty convinced there were multiple scum in that list, and wanted his thoughts on them. And yeah. Blatant refusal, especially when there turned out to actually be two scum in that bunch is just not a mafia mindset. And I can't fathom it as a neutral mind-set either. Lack of self-awareness, etc.
Bluh. Kind of dislike everything about this post in retrospect. Especially given EtR was close to being hammered. Was at L-1 at one point there. And then DOCS ON SEPPEL as 2 other people get shot by the scum team. Mrgle.
Hrm. Big point in Void's favor.
Annnnd nevermind. Kind of. I dunno, I don't like this post. Just the way it's worded feels super forced.
But then this is goodpost. Admittedly it follows myself and Cyouni talking about how they disliked LoT's posts, so it's not exactly the first thing mentioned on the situation - but it's still the first vote cast on him at a time when the EtR wagon could still be pushed through. Decent point in Void's favor.
[B]Dan in response to redirecting lynch away from Eron to LoT... man that looks bad.[/B]
Calls Teh JeY town. Shocker. [B]Also, the bolded in his quote is something that I anecdotally wanted to point out (Anecdotally is a word. Shh). I've historically found that people that mention how scummy their precursor was upon replacing in tend to be scum a shockingly high percentage of the time. It's like they're trying to distance themselves from their prior selves actions. [/B] I don't have anything to back that up, but it'd be an interesting experiment for someone with lots of free time to comb back over completed games and look for catch up posts by replacements. I suspect there'd be a high correlation!
Oh, hey, something from Tom that makes me go 'wat'. Killing scum being almost completely null is 'wat'. I'm sure he answers this in a few posts, but still. Dislike.
Hm.
Worth noting. Also worth noting is the fact that Cyouni was shot Night One. WiFOM, blah, blah, blah.
Also, Tom answers the 'confirmed town' thing wrt Seppel reasonably well in #523. Mostly. It was still weird.
In response to Seppel's case on me. Fixation on EtR, and is ignoring the building LoT wagon.
Dismissal of KJ's point. Dunno if it means anything, given that KJ was soft defending LoT, who we know is scum.
[B]Hah hah. Remember that thing up above about Dan, where I disliked him mentioning how scummy his precursor was? Meet a supporting data point for that theory![/B]
Dunno if there's anything useful in there, really. But I read it, I saw it, figured I'd toss it up and see if anyone else sees anything in there.
Small point in Void's favor.
[B]This is the key to the game, I think. Dan's read wall near the end of D1. I don't think he has a single read of a scum player on it that looks favorably on him at all. Which is almost a town tell. Almost.
I don't like the IB 'confirmed town' thing. I don't like the randomly just sticking AI up there as town thing. I don't like the waffling safety nets on JeY and LoT. There's not much I do like from a 'what we know now' perspective.[/B]
This is a repeated thing with Dan. Insisting that IB is clear, and begging him to start behaving like town. It's so blatant that I almost don't want to believe it's reality (both being scum), but at this point it seems pretty likely. Unless it's Void. Or Tom is randomly a neutral.
WHEEEEE distancing.
Weird-ass question.
Also, Rick still is offputting as **** re-reading his comments. I really wish you'd adjust your playstyle to be a bit less abraisive, Meg - it's a team, social game and the 'I'll do as I please' attitude is a tad grating and makes things unfun. Unrelated to everything, but yeah.
Another Dan/IB thing. This is getting absurd - he mentions it like six times that IB's town - what's the mindset behind that? I can't really fathom a town or scum one.
Hammer on scum. Should note that it was not cutting off discussion, and someone else was going to hammer shortly if he didn't. Null tell at worst, slight attempt at generating town credit possible?
Only really posting it because it mentions two remaining players. Don't think there's anything there, as Rick is town, and Tom is not mafia.
Eesh. I really, really dislike this post. Not sure how I never noticed it before. 'Oh, gee, this guy that I know will flip town might flip town. Woe is us.' Also, the 'Are we looking at 4 or 5 scum?' when there's actually...six? Hrmgle. Dislike.
Rick mentioning the thing Cyouni talked about - Tyzmo and LoT both not wanting to lynch Void. Gahhhhhh. Can we shoot Void and Dan? And maybe Tom just to be safe? I don't see what could possibly go wrong.
[B]Hrmgle. #837 is a huge post by Teh_JeY where she attacks Swishh. Chainsaw defending Void? I don't even know at this point why am I still working on this at 2:30 in the ****ing morning when I have to be up early I hate mafia.[/B]
But then Dan swoops back in with this thing and takes my mind back off Void. I mean, it's not a scum tell to be wrong. Really, it's not. But it's the way they're worded that makes me just grunt inarticulately and want him dead for it.
[B][/B]
Very good post here from Void. Goes back and looks at the AI/LoT interaction 'slip', and... apparently forgets that Wessel is dead? Trouble reconciling that with a scum mindset, and makes Dan more likely.
Welp. This is one of the first things I've seen from Tom that make me want him dead. 'Don't steal my town credit, bro' sets off all kinds of alarms. What was it called... ah, yes. Silver Rage.
AI train building, Dan tries to redirect to Eron. Just like he did from LoT. Ergh. The razor says scum, my gut says scum, my brain's like 'that's just...too blatant'. Wat do.
[B]Annnnd then the Void claim post in #945. I really, really don't like that he waited so long in the day to claim, even if he did bread-crumb it a bit. Gambit alert overload. Especially given that he mentioned scum gambits earlier in the game by pointing out Kpaca running a cop gambit in Seasons... so he was obviously thinking from that perspective. Ergh.[/B]
Dan being all 'wat, how was I distancing from AI?' is bluh. Scumslip? I don't even know at this point. Probably.
Dunno what to think. Why does he care about gimping the mafia? It doesn't make sense to say that, because he knows that AI is scum (if he's scum) and bleh.
Mm. IB, Teh_Jey, whatever, they're both scumbuddies, right? Mostly joking, but this might have been another AI thing that got looked over.
#1084 basically confirms Rick as not-mafia. Like his play the entire game hasn't screamed town.
And. then there's the recent stuff and it's 3:30 in the morning and I'm not going through it. Hm. Going to just hit submit and then try to do a short recap.
Conclusion:
Rick is still town. He's not being lynched. If he's scum, he earned the win and deserves it.
Tom is probably town. I found two posts in the entire thread that I felt could have possibly come from a neutral/scum mindset - the ones where he wanted credit for his AI case. I don't want to lynch him, I don't think.
Void is... possibly scum? I like his role. So there's that. And his night actions are pretty cool. Except for the part where he had a roleblock shot with a scum roleblocker and scum backup roleblocker. That's kind of convenient. Haven't really liked a whole lot else he's done this game (which you can see the highlights of in my post above), but...
I want to lynch Dan. I think Dan is mafia. I think he intentionally took no action when roleblocked N3, and JeY performed the kill. Dan has consistently been redirecting from scum all game, and tunneled into EtR hard. The only thing (and I do mean only thing) giving me pause, is how blatant some of his buddying of scum was (hi IB, JeY, AI), and how genuine the 'welp, game is over' posts were from Jey/Dan, both. But it's quite feasible that it was a gambit. Kill the person that would implicate JeY, have Dan do nothing, and hope to coast to end game by lynching...everyone else? I don't know, it's pretty weak, but they were in a bad position.
Vote: Ganderin_Dan
p.s. sucking up to me by being resolute about this being my town game can't last forever, Dan. Also, that probably works better if other people in the game had access to my notes from C&B and could more easily compare the two.
I'm tired, and just hit random things if I wanted stuff to stand out, sometimes.
But I have things to do in the morning, and I've spent far too much of my non-existent free time trying to get thoughts out there, so yeah. Sleep times.
I certainly haven't done much to make you think I'm town. Pretty wrong on AI (although you didn't really acknowledge my reason for coming to that conclusion, which I think are justifiable) and IB (faulty assumptions). Mediocre interactions.
I do think your last couple points are reaching, as well as the "safety nets" thing with Jey & LoT. That's my process when dealing with new players. And how can you think the "doc on Seppel" thing is scummy when he WAS TOWN, and I defended that status against multiple people telling me he wasn't confirmed?
Generally speaking, you mention that wrong =/= scum, but then you take it and run. Can't blame you in some aspects (IB mainly), but just understand that's the main reason you want to push this wagon, and you'll be proving your original assumption correct.
Would you mind telling me/quoting what Voxx's orginal assumption was/is?
^
Santorum
Your answers:
It’s a moot point now. Voxx didn’t have a Day Vig.
I have been actively scum hunting all game.
I have cased you (Santorum) as possibly being the SK. Although I am not so sure on this anymore.
My Doc Protect would prevent any kill directed at the target of my choice. TCMod had not considered the option and I had seen a variant recently so I inquired.
I do not know how TCMod would resolve a Double Role Block situation. I cannot answer the question at the moment about what Rhand would see.
RobRoy claimed to be Role Blocked. I will find the post if you want me too.
But at this stage of the game, when I can't build a behavioral case on Tom or Rick, and you've consistently been deflecting off of confirmed scum and tunneling confirmed town, you make the most sense by a significant margin.
If people want to lynch Tom, provide some behavioral reasoning, other than just being risk averse and scared of his role. Because I just don't see it.
He's incredibly unlikely to be part of the scum team, even ignoring his role - which means he would have to be a neutral of some kind. A neutral with killing power, that he only started killing with after all the scum were dead - and either perfectly shot into the same targets the mafia did/doc protects for the first, what, 3-4 nights of the game?
There haven't been any unaccounted for kills. The simplest explanation is that we're looking for a remaining mafia member. And while you've had things that give me pause, namely Cythare's 3-scum thing, the 'game is over whee' thing, and the general blatant scummy interactions, I can't ignore those interactions when I can't really see a case on the person that was at H-1.
Note: @Voxx: I highlighted some stuff in green. That stuff I recommend you try to avoid in future big posts as it made it annoying for me to read like nails on a chalkboard.
Voxx, there are 3 times in this post that you seem to disregard null tells / WIFOM. This is the first time. The 3-man scumteam quote is not even close to something you can write someone off as town for, and I'm not sure why you want to. It could have been made by careless town or smart scum. It is null.
Wessel is wrong here. ScumCythare would do exactly as he did if he were trying to be clever. It takes no brilliant mastermind to mistake the number of scum on the team and then continue to make that mistake look genuine.
Here is the second time I think your logic is faulty. Rick/Megs knows that it is town-like to act in a way that you don't care what other people think of you. He could simply be acting like that to appear town when he is really an SK or a mafioso. It's WIFOM and null, it does not make Rick town.
If anything it looks as if his "i don't care" is really forced and unnecessary, supporting my feelings about him trying too hard to act town.
From what I've seen I agree with you.
I feel the urge to explain basic WIFOM to you. This is the third part I don't like about your post.
If you were scum and had a daykill, which play would you make? Kill a townie? Hey one down, 12 to go, and now you face the spotlight from an angry town? Or kill a buddy who's already flailing, and look more town as a result?
You HAVE to consider the day kill null. If you don't, if you consider the daykiller town because he got a mafia member, then you encourage scum daykillers to make that very move. It's like a state of equilibrium, centered around null.
Can you explain that "which is almost a town tell, almost" part of this? I don't get it.
Also, definitely agree. The part about bussing on g_d's IB review as well as the "don't screw this up" feels way off.
^glad someone agrees with me there.
You can't fathom a scum mindset behind trying to make your scum buddy look town?
Shoot? Also, if we were going to be lynching all three of the players you listed, you would have to do me first, which you make clear you are not an advocate off. We don't have 3 days to lynch those players anyway.
So just responding to random crap; for the most part I agree with you. As I said earlier I think I want to lynch one of g_d / Void today and one tomorrow.
I think I prefer g_d, so: [B]Unvote, Vote: gan_dan, Vote: gan_dan[/B]
g_d: why did you unvote? I shouldn't have to ask that question but there you go.
Void: I don't believe you answered my question
So we may have just lost.
Anyway, if it's relevant, some analysis I typed up earlier:
Voxxicus does feel townie to me, and not just because of his recent spurt of activity. His reveal of the kill early in the game strikes me as a pro-town activity. I don't see how that went down as SK material, just in my recollection. I'm unhappy that RR was Voxx's major opponent D2 and then died N2... but that's WIFOM.
Dan I'd respond but you just got lynched so there's no point.
@void: Yes, I remember RR being blocked N1. I need to see if there were any other claims for that. I don't think there's anything to say about the rest of your responses.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
---
Oops, for some reason I thought it was 4 to lynch.
Oh well, this is pretty much what I wanted to happen anyway. Lynch g_d or Void today and if we haven't won lynch the other tomorrow. Better than lynching me
I'm town, so if you are town too, rest assured that you have not lost (yet). Hopefully you've even won
I'm probably going to die tonight, if there is a tonight. If there is a tomorrow, I'm pretty sure I want Void dead. If Voxx or Rick are actually the remaining baddie, all I can say is well done.
Void > Voxx > Rick
If anyone has something to say to me now is obviously the time to do it
You are now confirmed town in my eyes, whereas you weren't before. I mean, if you are scum, GG, but otherwise I think we have just made POE a lot easier.
Also dan might just be the SK or whatever. So.
I think that since the other two kills N1 were from mafia, if there was an SK in this game Voxx would make the most sense because he made the third kill that night.
It could easily have been NK, SK, Vig.
You said "So I was about to come in and declare Tom confirmed town but then that happened."
So you think I'm confirmed town now because that happened but now you're not because that happened?
Well AI claimed to have used his kill on Cyouni but I suppose so.
I do too. Thus why Void is the most likely if not g_d.
If we were looking for an SK I'd be more inclined to say Voxx but even then I'd have to think about it.
Also my thought process is thus:
1. Tom hasn't hammered. He's town, or else he would have hammered and won.
2. Oh ****, Tom hammered. We might have just lost.
3. If we didn't just lose, Tom is guaranteed town.
It's a bit of a tautology but... yeah. My point is that if you are scum we are almost literally dead in the water here and you might as well just tell us so that we can end the game now. Since this is not happening, you are town.
As the gathering comes around again, tensions flare. Both Tom and Voxxicus argue largely over what has been said, trying to find even the smallest of hint of deception. Dan comes in to say that perhaps if he is not trusted, he should go next. While the response is dismissed at first, the sudden thought that he was pulling a trick became realized. As both Tom and Voxxicus turn toward G_d, he suddenly realizes they mean to end him. Panicking, he begs that he was simply joking, but it is far too late. Voxxicus holds him down while Tom beats the living crap out of Reggie Jackson, Town Vanilla. Realizing the horror both men brought down upon themselves, they retreat to their rooms, while Rick Santorum and Void watch in solemn silence.
It is now night 6. You have 72 hours to get your actions into me.
Reggie Jackson (Town Vanilla)
Cythare, You are Reggie Jackson (Dates unknown )
As one of the first African American baseball players to participate on an all-white Baseball league, you helped to break the color barriers in professional sports. Nowadays, there is no such thing as a white or black league, only a professional league. In addition to your contributions to African Americans in the professional league, you were brought up to the hall of fame in 1993, and uniform #44 was officially retired from the New York Yankees.
Abilities: During the day, you may vote for any player.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
Andrew Jackson (Town Double Voter)
Tom, You are Andrew Jackson (March 15, 1767 – June 8, 1845)
The Hero of New Orleans, and the first democratic president, you were quite the fireball during your reign and before. In 1831, you declared war on the United States bank calling it a corrupted instrument of the rich, and in 1833, you dealt with the first real threat to the union: The Nullification crisis in South Carolina. Considered one of the best presidents by historians, your fame knows no bounds.
During the day, you may vote twice. You may vote the same player twice, however, to move votes, you MUST be specific with who you are unvoting. (I.E. Vote Player A, Unvote Player B, Vote Player A)
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Impressions: Voxx is legitimately scumhunting. Unfortunately, SKs are able to scumhunt effectively. I really cannot find anything that points me in the direction that he is working against the town.
I think the key interactions are going to be the beginning of Day 2 when we're talking about the SK. Basically, starting here.
My thoughts: Voxxicus was especially... I'll call it "blatant" about being responsible for a kill. 687, in particular, is like a kid with chocolate on his face trying to deny that he got into the Halloween candy.
So, why? Maybe he is the vig and was just a little too worried about being asked to claim. However, I think that Voxxicus is a good enough town player that he wouldn't be so obvious about being a PR, so this is a strike against him—I can see an SK feigning this line of discussion to sell the one-shot vig story. If he really was responsible for the kill he would know that nobody else would claim it—and that just makes the situation worse for him. Why wouldn't the vig claim? Like RR said, you just get lynched if you slowroll it.
Related: I disagree with this post entirely:
Basically everything behaviorally from voxx is null at this point, in my view.
I keep putting off the analysis of this post by RobRoy, but I suppose now is the time to buckle down.
He has a point: Voxxicus states that Jey became a "possible scum read" after Anak flipped town, but in his explanation of who he was considering to vig he listed jey, a thought process which presumably happened before Anak flipped. His response was kind of handwavey. RobRoy follows up here. I will note that RR's theory is that Voxx is a toughguy, which we know is not the case. However, we can still apply the theory to Voxx being an SK.
Other notes: Voxx's 767 and Seppel's 769—I was watching for SK mentions, and this is certainly not the first but it is a crucial one.
***aside***
lol
***end aside***
We then have a long period with no posting from Voxx—related to work, as I understand it, but he's back in action after a while. this post seems reasonable, but only if he was expecting to get run up to claim. My problem with Voxx's play from the SK standpoint is that it relied on him getting run up (the goal being to claim 1-shot vig so that he would be left alone by scum). He did not do anything actually scummy during Day 2 that I saw at all, so there's not any indication that he was trying to do this. It also strongly endangers him of being lynched. Anyway, there is some AtE in here as well. Just noting it. (Not the OOG stuff, the "lynch me if you want" business).
After that we end up past the point where this is discussed, and are back to the standard goodposting Voxxicus.
I always get worried when people call me town when I am not really acting super townie, as Voxxicus has been all game. I mean, his reasoning is sound (and he's right), but the long-term, repeated insistence definitely makes me :eyebrow:. I mention this mostly to say that I don't want to approach the Day saying that Voxx is town because he's right about me.
Late game Voxx started out insisting that we lynch him but then dropped it after we did. Not sure if this means anything.
One last thing to consider is Voxxicus's swap from Tom to Dan Yesterday. Lynching Dan rather than Tom puts SKVoxx in a tough spot—the only possible NK target would be Tom. Why would he do that, then? Entering Night with Dan, me, himself, and Void gives him the opportunity to kill me, the guy who he was thumping on about as being town all game and double his shots at a mislynch to win the game. Right now... well, if he tries voting me I will be awfully surprised, to say the least.
I come out of this read with the following impression: Behaviorally, Voxxicus is as townie as can be. He has been scumhunting. He as actively made plays that would limit his options as an SK. However, I am given pause by two things. The first is that SKs are actually able to scumhunt honestly. The second is that Voxxicus claims to be a very good player. I cannot put it past him to run what he did as an SK, even if he was running plays that were against his best interests.
---
I will review Void later, as I said. I have been tunneling him since Day one and am not willing to place a vote until I have actually put the time into it.
Going in I will be asking myself the question, "what do I need to see to convince myself that Void is actually town?" I know what I need to see, which is Day 1 interactions that do not indicate scum behavior. Anything after Day 1 is part of the hypothetical master plan to bus his whole team and become a cleared "town PR," so it would need to be evaluated more carefully, but even then I can look for genuine interactions over fabricated ones.
Just as a note his treatment of the AI cop result reveal on Day 2 is pretty ridiculous and if I lynch him for anything it's going to be for that.
Also, fair warning, I may self-replace into my main account Today depending on activity from you guys. I can't phone post from this account and I may wish to do that.
tl;dr void and voxxicus fight for my amusement please
I'm obviously leaning Void right now, but I have to acknowledge the possibility that Rick fooled me - especially given the Vanilla claim, and lack of mechanical clear.
I can't really say much in terms of defending myself, unfortunately - it's almost all going to be WiFOM.
I've been scumhunting, I've been open about my thought processes and reads, I locked myself into a killing claim extremely early, I volunteered to be lynched (and fully expected to be the lynch that day), and I dug my heels in against an easy lynch on Tom to put in a ton of effort casing Dan.
But despite all that, there's the WiFOM potential there of 'He could have done that as a SK, even if it was against his own interests to do so'. And I'm not sure what I can say to that except shrug and acknowledge it.
@Rick - you say that SK's can scum hunt in a genuine fashion, and that's accurate. But in a hypothetical world where I am the SK, it means there hasn't been any scum to hunt since Teh JeY died. Re-read my large re-read post at the end of yesterday, and try to gauge how genuine it feels - does it feel like I knew there were no scum left, or does it feel like I was trying to discern the mindset and motives of the players I was quoting?
@Void - You're almost certainly scum. You lost two scum on day one, and gambitted hard in hopes that it would carry you through to the end, cleared. But it's possible you're town, so if you are, I hope that you can read back through with a clear head, and present a compelling case on Rick.
But I don't think you are town.
Re-read time, will have large-ish post up either in a few hours or tomorrow.
Post #215. Megs does his first waffle on me.
This is Megs jumping onto the EtR wagon with a poor reason at that. Megs makes it sound like the what EtR has done is only done by scum which is not the case.
We also have Megs calling for EtR’s lynch, but not until Dan has commented.
I would love to know who Megs knows that Tom is “wrong” here.
Megs gets disconnected from the game during the final moments of Day 1. Megs never replaces his votes and the Day ends with Megs never showing that he did a reread.
Megs, in his last two votes, has voted swishh, but is now calling for my lynch without switching his vote over. The reasoning that Megs wants me lynched, gathered from this post, is WIFOM. The dead scum members showed hesitance towards my lynch. Do either of the situation firmly point to me being scum? No. Megs is applying pressure from a weak source.
Megs knows that swishh has waved arounf a PR, but it voting swishh? Something doesn’t add up here.
This post from Megs makes no sense. He’s voting swishh, but unvotes due to an investigation on another player. As far as megs knew, it was a gambit, but yet his response to my investigation claim is an immediate unvote of a player who he thought suspicious despite swishh throwing his PR around. This post more looks more like Megs is trying to find a reason to unvote swishh without anyone noticing.
I know the bolded is Flavor Gaming, but this not look good for Megs.
Megs does absolutely nothing to analyze the interactions between myself and AlphaInsidious. The only post previous to this one is where Megs claim above. And prior to that was his unvote of swishh.
Calls out IB saying “totally convinced myself”, but does not vote IB (confirmed scum).
Start of Day 3 and now Megs votes for IB. Looking above at the post where Megs was “totally convinced” of IB being scum makes that post rather WIFOMy. Would Megs be the type of player, as scum or SK, that he would intentionally leave his vote of off IB to avoid the distraction from AlphaInsidious’ wagon? Since I cannot answer this question either way I am going to have to leave this post for what is. WIFOM.
Something just caught my attention in this post. We know that AlphaInsidious is confirmed scum, but how do we know that AlphaInsidious spoke the truth about his target? We don’t and yet Megs is calling it a confirmed action. Makes me wonder if Megs knows more about this than we do.
Possible slip, but nowhere near enough information to confirm one way or another. I hate you, Megs.
It sounds like it? Only sounds like it? No, Teh JeY, was announcing the game over. Huge misrepresentation of Teh JeY’s post.
What benefit would a scumMegs get from misrepresenting Teh JeY’s post as such? I cannot think of a logical explanation here.
There next two posts are in consecutive order:
So much settling on the last unknown being a SK rather than Mafia, huh, Megs?
I would love to see your case on me… Oh, wait, that’s right. You never did case me.
You would want to provide an incomplete case on me to prove I am SK… No Mafia… No SK… I‘m not sure anymore since you can’t keep your opinions straight…
That case never came on me. And rather show the Town what the interactions were between myself and Cyouni, Megs has everyone else go and do it. This is Megs putting suspicion on to me without showing any work for it. Megs has done this all game to me.
Thank you, Megs, for showing Voxx’s town mind set. Any townie would be trying to find a way to add extra cushion should there be the need for some. This look really good for Voxx and really bad for Megs.
And this post reveals Megs mind set. Earlier Megs claimed that AlphaInsidious shot was confirmed. Now Megs is saying that is not confirmed. This does not look good for Megs.
Megs changed his mind because of setup gaming and “whatever”. Megs was against Flavor Gaming earlier, but now he is gaming the setup which will only provide the same result as Flavor Gaming. Something he said we should not be using since EtR was lynched because of it.
How do you believe AlphaInsidious’ claim when you have been back on forth on whether his claim is confirmed or not? More inconsistencies.
Next up is Voxx, then vote analysis.
Megs, you don't need to reply to the case. You have responsed to everything within at least once I believe. If you want to respond to everything you can.
Fiancee is in the hospital (nothing super serious), and I'll be in and out of there, unlikely I'll have time to finish up my post.
Hope all turns out well.
Void I actually have a few points of contention on your case that I would like to raise while I am here:
1. You did a good job of showing that I was being inattentive during the early portion (and arguably the latter portion) of the game, notably with the various contradictions you pointed out. However, I do not think you have demonstrated in any substantial way how that is attributable to me being an anti-town element.
2. You called my call for your lynch "WIFOM," but I do not think you are using this phrase appropriately. WIFOM is where you cannot make a judgment on an action because of the possibility that scum is deliberately playing into your assumptions. For example, if player A spends all Day attacking player B, and then player A ends up dead at Night, it would be WIFOM to assume that player B is scum. This actually happened this game, with RobRoy and Voxxicus. Using that to draw any conclusions is WIFOM. However, what I was noting appeared to be genuine reactions of curiosity—"why is he attacking Void?" Those motivations, especially Day 1 before any sort of collusion can happen, are significantly easier to read and I would argue that it is not WIFOM.
3. Your second WIFOM point is similarly nonsensical. We had caught scum in AI. My post was a direct response to this post from Seppel:
So, there's a clear reason why I didn't vote IB: We were lynching AI that Day for sure. Seppel asked who the other scum were, and I gave my suggestion. There's no WIFOM there whatsoever.
Class soon, so that's it for now. See you in a couple of days.
This exchange with Voxx, EtR and LoT is very interesting knowing that LoT is Scum and that EtR is Town. LoT asks Voxx to confirm his suspicion of EtR, but when Voxx does, the reasoning given does not support a scum mind set. EtR would then explain his position/reasoning for not voting then. With EtR flipping town, this reflects negatively on Voxx. More so since this was Voxx first vote outside of RVS.
These next two posts from Voxx are literally his next two posts following the one previous above these two. I understand being busy, but it would have been better for Voxx to replace out here. Fluff posting more than anything else here.
The bolded really bothers me. There is no “if” clause there. So either Voxx has slipped here (since we know LoT and Captain Tyzmo are new!scum) or he wasn’t paying attention to what he typed here. Could be either one here unfortunately when you take into consideration the two previous posts. Sigh.
Voxx continues to call out EtR’s non-existent town mind set, but in reality EtR is showing a town mind set. EtR’s posts have been consistent and his defense was just that, a defense. The vote on EtR here looks very much forced.
Voxx is doing a great job of painting EtR as scum. Even with a flip and no reread, Voxx is still dead set on EtR being scum. I don’t see this as a town mind set. If Voxx were town, then a reread would happen first and then afterwards using the flip information along with EtR’s post would Voxx then be able to make a justified read on EtR.
Finally we have Voxx throwing slight suspicion onto the LoT (scum). This looks like Voxx preparing to jump onto the LoT wagon.
So now Voxx completes his reread of the game and not much changes… No matter who flips what alignment there will almost always be changes in a players read.
I looked back to find the chainsaw the defense that Voxx brought up about EtR, but I could not find it. Voxx, would you please quote the post you were referring too?
Going back and looking at the vote count of the time when Voxx made this post we can see there is only one confirmed scum on the EtR wagon and that is LoT. The rest of the scum are not on the EtR wagon. Voxx makes the comment of “If EtR is town, mafia are just laying low and letting it happen.” I find it weirdly odd that Voxx posted this information when there was a lot of truth behind it. Inside information is a good possibility here.
Voxx talks about wanting to lynch EtR over LoT, but then later says he would be willing to lynch killjoy with the only reason provided was because killjoy was lurking. This post resembles someone flailing, but Voxx wasn’t under any pressure at the time.
These last two posts are more fluff from Voxx. Both of these posts come when a deadline is fast approaching. This does not settle well with me.
Voxx has gone from barely mentioning killjoy as a lurker to now wanting to lynch killjoy over LoT. He admits that it is not likely, but it still putting two townies ahead of a scum member.
Voxx really likes his waffles.
“The only thing that gives me pause” Either Voxx is extremely unlucky with his LoT interactions or he his scum himself. The latter is seeming more likely at the moment.
Voxx now twists RR’s post to fit his world that RR is hunting for Town PRs. This is could not be any further from the truth. RR is looking for Scum with his questioning. The entire context of his post leads to his question being about a Scum Role Blocker, not a Town Role Blocker.
Voxx is calling Ganderin_Dan scum, then town in the same post? Voxx, please clairify this.
This exchange between RR and IB is very telling when you look at the whole picture. At the time of RR casting his vote on Voxx there was no one prior voting Voxx. RR did a good job of pointing out why Voxx should have some pressure. IB simply tried to distract from Voxx and then reserved judgment on why. IB never did state why although I believe it’s clear as to why at this point.
I went back and pulled up Voxx’s list of “Who I chose to shoot and why with reads” post from Day 2. In that post he claimed that Teh JeY, Ganderin_Dan, IB, killjoy and Santorum as possible suspects. Killjoy being the actual scum read.
Later in Day 2 Voxx posts the second quote you see and mentioned that he is out of options. I fail to see how Voxx is out of options when his previous post has plenty of options for him to go off of.
Up next is Vote Count Analysis.
I will sit down and look at Void after my exam.
I am working on the VC analysis and it should come out today. If not, then tomorrow for sure.
I don't think I have ever been this busy in the our Mafia subforum prior.
I'm also doing more than VC analysis. I found something very interesting about one of you and plan to reveal that as well. But first, I need a time machine.
Megs, knock that **** off. You are yet do ANYTHING on this current Day. Same with Voxx.
Come back and say that **** when you have actually done something toDay!
Let's look at void.
RVS vote on scum, but that doesn't mean much.
I voted for for this post very early on. It was a serious vote, because void was unvoting for no reason, which raised a flag.
Later on we have the multi-scum pileup starting with my post 79. Void suggests this is WIFOM, I look at it more as catching a bunch of newb scum with their pants down (I think this was the first scum game for all of JeY, LoT, and Tyzmo).
I found that void was ignoring me a lot here, which was also a flag. People that try to handwave and ignore things until they go away are often doing so for a reason (read: because they are scum).
No votes here despite having two good candidates. More interesting is Lennon's response post "you're quick to jump on my back." Obviously that was an overreaction to light pressure (not even a vote, as I suggested). However, I am wondering if this was a buddy mad at another buddy getting on his case. This is unclear.
A little while later we have void's response to the people voting lennon. I find his approach here strange. First he is clearly on the offensive, with an aggressive bash on Lennon, but he immediately turns around and says that lennon's just low-hanging fruit, without explaining why, and votes (plus a fos) on the two people who did vote for lennon. The argument for voting anak is really tenuous, as well.
Void's new nickname is softball pitching machine. Like, really now, this is a series of the two softest balls possible for our newbie scum to hit.
221 contains a few points of interest. First is a continuation of the softball treatment of the newb scum. The second I must ask about:
void: How did you know that JeY was from another site? When did she tell you this?
Tyzmo's question to void there is also weird. Looking for approval?
General thoughts up to this point: Void likes pointing out a lot of potentially scummy behaviors without committing votes or follow-through to them. He also is basically walking the newb scum through the game through a series of softball questions. Let's get back to it:
Here he implies lennon is scum (when talking about coaching) but still doesn't say he thinks he is explicitly.
BUT WHERE'S THE VOTE, VOID???
Remember this? Would you mind explaining what you were talking about here? I presume that the game in question has ended by this point.
next few posts are boring blah blah blah
I'll repost this post I made rather than resummarize. Read the posts prior. I found what I thought to be a contradiction in mindset here. This is the thing that Cyouni was noticing as well, which was my "case" on void Yesterday.
Void never responds to this, instead choosing to try and clear lennon using Tyzmo's posts.
We have a seppelquote about void emulating his towngame here. I think I've played with scum void twice, I honestly forget if I've played with him as town.
He does have a good point about RobRoy's post feeling forced, though—it did.
REPOSTING a cyouni post
Here I give void for pointing this error out, but for not voting. At this point in time void has no vote out.
I love quoting things that are funny so let's quote this one:
It's also topical!
Finally, a vote! Seppel claims that this vote was based on "factually incorrect" information.
Given my current thoughts on Void up to this point I find this post particularly amusing.
General thoughts up to this point: Void is still dodging a lot of questions and handwaving when called on it. It feels like he tried to engineer a bus on LoT with his "factually incorrect" vote, as well as the trap he set with the "without revealing your role" quote.
Oh hey, let's take a brief aside:
There is a series of posts starting here with Seppel's case on Voxxicus that deserve a closer look. It's possible that Voxx's townie behavior (in my opinion) has more holes than I thought. On the other hand, I myself have been very flaky for activity-related reasons this game, so I have to keep that in mind. Either way it's worth noting this for later.
-------
So that's the void D1 review. Summary? Weird, weird interactions with all of the newb scum, compared with his interactions with town. It's possible I'm just seeing what I want to see, so it would be good if Voxxicus could fact check me.
Void I did ask you one direct question here, please answer that. Also if you locate any other things to discuss, that would be good.
I'm out of time for today. The D2 and beyond review will have to wait until tomorrow I think.
However, my question about how you can say I've done nothing Today still stands.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I confess that frustration got the better of me yesterday... and today is not looking any better. RL hit me very hard this morning and I will not be a stable mind all day because of it. I will get the VC analysis done, but do not expect to interact much today.
That being said, here is the end of Day 1 Vote Count. I did not include the Captain Tyzmo wagon since, well, no one was on it…
And the posts from the three of us were we had voted for added analysis:
Funny, Megs didn’t make any comments on the LoT wagon, but pushed for the EtR wagon. During the EtR/LoT events all Megs did what say he needed to reread and unvoted EtR. Here are Megs posts after players started switching to the LoT wagon:
Looking back, I don’t see Megs mentioning LoT at all on Day 1.
Megs did post during Twilight.
Voxx jumps onto the wagon for reasoning that is very weak compared to what others had brought forward. And that is Voxxicus’ final post of Day 1. No post from Voxxicus during Twilight.
I would add comments here, but since this is me I don’t want anything to come out biased.
And that is the end of the quotes from Day 1 from all us. I will need to separate Day 1 into a separate post because of the length of it.
Take what you want from it. I’m simply supplying things that should be looked at closer.
I reread Voxxicus's bigpost from Yesterday and was struck by how similarly we think about Void this game.
Anyway, if activity doesn't pick up (RL sucks, I know), I'll probably just go with my gut and vote Void. Before that, I at least need to finish my D2->Present Void review, though.
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voxxicus provided a lot of analysis Yesterday but I think it would be good to see some more Today.
I'll also note that Void failed this test: Day 1 was filled with weirdness from Void, as I stated, with all sorts of interactions that look like coaching and the simul defend/attack posts (as Vox noted).
Anyway, I might be able to do the rest of the review tonight, we'll see.
And the posts from the three of us were we had/if voted for added analysis:
End of Day 2 Vote Count:
This is not my voting post, but this is the reasoning for my vote. I would later hammer AI.
These posts from Voxx come after my reveal of AI.