Oh? So then educate this newb, what is the "proper" term. Because what I saw was you setting Phoenix up so that if he voted you, you could call OMGUS.
And yes, throwing your vote around provokes high strung emotions, which is bad for the town, it makes it difficult to keep focus and even more so to get an accurate read on who you think is scum or not.
Your opinion on phoenix is so erratic, and so far your phrasing and behavior has been only to try and trap me and phoenix into black and white answers.
Kind of like that failed soft claim proposal you gave. another way to try and lock the town down.
I think your use of the doc as an example to describe potential PR's was an allusion to keep the town from breathing down your neck.
Your wording of how YOU are voting for who is the scummiest. It's subtle, backwards logic that preys on the subconscious and hints at the fact that I'm the one who is not scum hunting, but you are.
You're starting to get batty, TDP. Not only are you overestimating Truk, but you're envisioning some really weird intentions behind his posts -- setting up PSR for OMGUS? Using "doc" as an example to psychologically protect himself? Ironically, I'm seeing just as much "high strung emotion" from you right now. It's the kind of posting I've seen from cornered scum before, which is weird, because you're neither cornered nor under any threat whatsoever.
You're starting to get batty, TDP. Not only are you overestimating Truk, but you're envisioning some really weird intentions behind his posts -- setting up PSR for OMGUS? Using "doc" as an example to psychologically protect himself? Ironically, I'm seeing just as much "high strung emotion" from you right now. It's the kind of posting I've seen from cornered scum before, which is weird, because you're neither cornered nor under any threat whatsoever.
i'm glad I'm not the only one picking up on this. Based on the amount of stuff almost copy pasted out of phoenix's argument, its starting to feel like flailing to get a scumbuddy out of the fire.
it is not the fact that you have asked questions that is scummy, its the fact that you ask the same ones in an attempt to defame me.
What part of asking you these questions is defaming you? This is the part that I'm not seeing. Yes, you questioned the wierd RVS-meta stuff out of Phoenix, but you also said
Quote from TDP »
What I have an issue with is how he made a point to say "See, me?" To make it known that he was actively posting. Even when there was nothing. Why is that?
Ipot: Why would you call direct attention to yourself posting, during the RVS, wouldn't just posting suffice? Why did you feel the need to point that out?
Do you understand why I was unclear on your feelings about question 1? Other than that, you hadn't explicitly answered the questions that I was asking. I wanted yes or no answers to those questions, so that defames you how?
Quote from TDP »
So yes, throwing around your vote, in my opinion, is harmful to the town because it distracts us from active scum hunting.
I placed one vote during RVS. I placed one vote after RVS, on a player that was acting scummy, and was my biggest scum read. Please define "throwing around my vote".
Quote from TDP »
I think your use of the doc as an example to describe potential PR's was an allusion to keep the town from breathing down your neck.
My use of doc was related to the fact that this is a basic. After reading through a handful of basics, there is a distinct pattern of Town PRs including Cop and Doc. I don't really know what that does to "keep the town from breathing down my neck."
Quote from TDP »
Quote from Truk »
I was asking because you are using a term brought up by phoenix to describe incorrectly the play I am making.
Oh? So then educate this newb, what is the "proper" term.
I am referring here to "Policy Lynch". I never wanted to policy lynch anyone, that's simply Phoenix's misenterpretation. I asked if you were completely caught up on the thread because I addressed this claim by him only a few posts previous, in a post you didn't quote or acknowledge in any way.
Quote from TDP »
But your interactions with Phoenix have been filled with very very subtle wording, wording that makes me uncomfortable.
I would appreciate you quoting exactly which subtle wording is making you uncomfortable.
Quote from TDP »
what I saw was you setting Phoenix up so that if he voted you, you could call OMGUS.
Yes. Clearly what happened is BEFORE he had said anything about me, or made any comments in my direction, I knew he would think me scum and make a weak arguement and vote me soon, so made a vote on him first.
/s
@Phoenix
Quote from Phoenix »
Quote from Truk »
1) a vote means "I am 100% convinced you are scum"
2) a vote should never be cast unless you want that person to be the lynch for the day.
Do you believe those statements are true?
If it were that black and white, then yes I would. Of course a vote can be used for means other than lynching, but that doesn't come from a town mindset.
I voted you to
a) let everyone know who I think may be scum
b) put pressure on a scummy player
c) if neccesary, push you into L-2 claim range
So all three of those are anti-town?
I'm not the one who's claiming it should be black and white. You and TDP have repeatedly stated that, despite my suspicions, I should not vote you if I don't know for certain you are scum and having you lynched is the most pro-town lynch of the day.
Quote from TDP »
for someone who can't even keep your opinion on Phoenix straight, you seem very sure of yourself.
Quote from Phoenix »
So, Truk, you should really sum up the case you have against me since your opinion is changing.
My opinion on Phoenix hasn't changed once since the post I voted. I believe there is a good chance of him being scum, but I am not sold on the idea yet. This is why I asked if TDP had read my posts yet. Phoenix and TDP don't seem to be getting this, and I'm not sure how to put it so that you stop incorrectly stating that I believed he was "not scum" at post 62. I have repeated this stance across several pages now.
Wow, lots of activity! I wish I could post more often but at least I will try to make this post substantious by listing my reads so far:
Heavy Scum Lean
Truk: Ugh, I had decided not to give much weight to the mass claim proposal but his posts ever since have not been great as others have exposed more eloquently. I particularly don't like how he treats so lightly his vote for Phoenix -even when he's admittedly far from convinced- under the pretext that he's not in immediate danger. He could simply have raised a FoS rather than what for all purposes seems like an attempt to start a wagon on him. Speaking of FoS, here's mine.
Leaning Scum
Kosakosa: Facepalm at the claim (which seems fake), SMH at his (her if the claim is true) following posts which seem like he trying to act nonchalant after a bad slip. Could just be noob, but more likely noob scum than town, I'd say.
50-50%
Phoenix Sun Rise: Some of his actions at the beginning seemed scummy but his posts have been great ever since, seems quite clever and aware. If scum, a great danger, if town, a great asset.
The Dark Passenger: Pretty similar to PSR in my eyes. Hasn't made a scummy move, but his overzealousness in attacking Truk (as justified as I believe it to be) made me raise my eyebrows a bit. Coming just a bit too hard and self-sure for me to give him a town lean, though if Truk flips scum at some point, I'd be willing to overlook this.
iPot: In spite of lots of post I don't get much out of him. Has spent a lot of time first defending himself from an (admittedly overzealous) attack and then reading too much from said attack. Could go either way.
Leaning Town
MirrorEntity: Concise, solid posts that aim to clarify confusion and let people explain themselves. Helpful to town.
MzztrTetris: Same as above, except that hast posted less if perhaps more substantially. Seems to have a good knowledge of mafia and knows what is of help to town.
Heavy Town Lean
The Most Curious Thing: Great posts overall, just solid townie behaviour. I do feel that he might be tunneling a bit too hard on Phoenix for not enough of a reason.
Null Reads
jdisawesomesauce: Hasn't post much.
Allwinapprentice: Cautious posting for sure. Not enough information to make up my mind but seems leaning town to me.
HammerAndSickled: Hasn't post much. Seems just noobie.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
@Passenger: the vote is the strongest tool the town has true. But it not just for voting who you think is scum, It can be used to pressure answers from people, provoke reactions. Essentially clever use of a vote can help you get a read on someone.
Truk vs PSR.
Both sides of this debate keep misresprenting points, I dont think either side has raised a solid point against each other.
PSR has his aggressive stab against iPot leaning against him and Truk has the mass claim possible as a sore point but these are relatively weak points, ultimately I think we have a case of town vs town here.
To me currently the most suspicious person is KK. He takes the opportunity to drop in a claim while mass claims was being discussed, despite the consensus leaning toward not claiming.
Most of his posts this game have been RVS or related to his prematured claim, I see very little pro-town behaviour in any of the posts.
vote KK
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
I searched Gatherer for any/all "Legendary" cards in innistrad last night. There were 15. However, this is no guarantee that any of that flavor ... is even relevant to which side is which.
If the flavor is not relevant, the scum gains literally nothing. If the flavor is relevant, especially for the power roles, I would expect them to do exactly as everyone is doing and decline the claim. For example, if I was Avacyn, Town Doc, I would never agree to go along with this claim.
Am I the only one that sees this as an inadvertent vanilla breadcrumb? I'm starting to get a town read on Truk through no doing of his own.
#Kosakosa
The second paragraph of post #118 is probably the most anti-town thing anyone has said this game, but I can't determine whether it's coming from scumminess or ignorance.
How much mafia have you played, KK?
@Maokun
If you have such a strong group of reads, why aren't you using your vote right now?
Very interesting tetris. I'm not going to hop on this KK wagon at the moment, but I have absolutely noticed his plainsight lurking. I had a noob town read on him but you may be right about this.
@Maokun
If you have such a strong group of reads, why aren't you using your vote right now?
Sorry, I didn't mean it to look as though my reads are super certain. They're simply there to expose my thoughts on the current state of the game since I wasn't able to post for a couple of days, but not even my reads on you or Trusk are 100% certain, not even 70%, I'd say. I also believe that the tool of FoS is underused and that casually voting for someone on a light suspicion of scumminess to provoke a reaction has equal chances of starting a wagon that'd crash into a mislynch, which is precisely one of my complaints about Trusk. Town shouldn't be this eager to place a vote with little reason, is my belief, specially this early in the game.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Very interesting tetris. I'm not going to hop on this KK wagon at the moment, but I have absolutely noticed his plainsight lurking. I had a noob town read on him but you may be right about this.
Please point out what KK has said in his posts that had given you a newb town read on him.
Also, the case you provided against me is crap. "I believe there is a good chance of him being scum, but I am not sold on the idea yet" That is not a case against someone. That is your gut telling you that I am scum.
A case would provide examples of how my language/beavhior/tone has changed and/or any slips I may have had if I were scum.
Look at the PBPZ that Tezz justs provided on KK. That is how a case should look.
Thank you for the PBPA, Tezz. It's the reason why I asked KK for his reads.
That wasn't a "case", thats my read on you. The one which has been constant since post 62, despite your claim that it is changing.
Kk's claim and the reasoning behind it reminded me of a player in the first game i ever played who did something similar. It was his first game as well and he didn't understand why it was an antitown move. I guess I equated the two in my head.
Not sold = not 100% convinced. What is the confusion?
Both posts contain the "Not Sold" comment, but in the latter of the two you added the comment "I believe there is a good chance of him being" which tells me that you found more evidence to support your claim, but as of your last reasoning I see that nothing has changed.
You're not doing anything to push a case against me and you're not scum hunting either. You're currently acting like newb scum would. Defending yourself from accusations without providing further content or scum hunting.
2. Town wouldn't have to accentuate the fact that they're honest.
3. Asks people to not be distracted... Which is the point of scum gambits... Which means that he looks to two major things that identify scum and says he's not doing them. Town wouldn't really have any reason to do that.
4. Complains about meta again.
1: You will eat those words with righteousness when/if I flip.
2: That was me as a player, not necessarily in this game.
3: I didn't want to distract people from whatever their interations were at the moment. What's about it?
4: Yes, I don't like meta, you will get used to it. I think it's a poor player's sign and a desperate resort to find something. That said, you will never see me resorting to meta. If I somehow do, please point it out to me and slap me in the face.
You're opposed to flavorgaming, but you're in favor of a softclaim. Awesome.
I don't care softclaiming as long as people don't stick to that as an end to all means. "No, he's claimed Thalia but I'm sure he's Griselbrand derp" that's stupid. I'd rather stick to people's arguments than meta or flavor. Plus, I didn't softclaim. I fullyclaimed.
First paragraph-The game wasn't stalling on post 18... So your argument here is void.
Second-So anti-town. I've given reason for this already.
First: the vote made on post #18 had to be meta-validated as an argument. When people need meta to proceed instead of analyzing behavior, the game is far from being fluid.
Second: sorry, but I don't need a power role in order to be effective. As a firm believer that the best player is the one that can use the most out of his brain, I would anytime rather have a proz0rd vanilla in my team than a noob doc or vig.
@TMCT: About my experience, the only online games I've ever played are the four ongoing ones that I'm into.
Very interesting tetris. I'm not going to hop on this KK wagon at the moment, but I have absolutely noticed his plainsight lurking. I had a noob town read on him but you may be right about this.
Please point out what KK has said in his posts that had given you a newb town read on him.
3. 1. That's just... such a great argument. Wow.
2. But you still said it in this game.
3. The fact that you mentioned it.
4. Really? You don't like meta? You should have mentioned that earlier.
1. I claim something that I know to be right. You say I'm not being honest. I beg to differ.
2. I did not. I said in Mafia, not in this game.
3. Because it was a concern expressed by TDP. I wanted to clarify it.
4. I said it twice and you quoted both times, are you even paying attention? The first time you called my argument stupid and when I asked why, you didn't answered. I'm asking again: why was that argument stupid?
4. So... you flavor claimed so people wouldn't think you were Grislbrand? And btw, you didn't full claim at all.
Yes, I did fullclaim. Also, you are distorting my point. I'm saying that resorting to the flavor to take action is dumb. I claimed because I have nothing to hide.
5. But, the game wasn't stalled. It was RVS. Your argument is invalid.
No, the RVS was over the moment PSR used meta to validate his vote on iPot. And he broke RVS with the worst possible argument: meta, partly based on a game from years ago.
6. I'm with you there. A great player is better than a useless cop. However since you are in fact useless to the town at this point, and not a cop, your claiming of your role is incredibly awful, and highly anti-town.
In your PoV maybe. In mine, I'm liking the kind of discussion my claim has generated.
My opinions: Firstly I didn't like PSR's initial attack. While meta in general is a bad thing to resort for, I can see it as being a way to generate reaction. If he's the experienced gimmick he claims to be, I don't think he would, as scum, go back to a game from years ago searching for arguments to paint someone scum in the first 20 posts of a game. More so, iPot's answer to his attack seemed honest.
No read on Truk's claim proposal, but this post caught my attention:
Very interesting tetris. I'm not going to hop on this KK wagon at the moment, but I have absolutely noticed his plainsight lurking. I had a noob town read on him but you may be right about this.
Bolded is my emphasis.
I didn't like that fence-sit. He's not jumping at my wagon at the moment, but that gives a free pass, in the future, for him to jump on it without arguments and say "Look there! I've expressed suspicion of him before!".
Also, you said you had a noob town read on me, but maybe Tetris is right. So where is that "I want to hear more from him about it" part, especially if, in your opinion, I was town before Tetris' argument?
On the rest, for me it's still to early to have good reads.
1. YOU HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING THIS WHOLE GAME EXCEPT ROLE CLAIM WHICH IS SO INCREDIBLY ANTI-TOWN IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY! AT THIS POINT, ANYONE WHO HASN'T DONE ANYTHING HAS BEEN BETTER OFF FOR TOWN THAN YOU HAVE!
2. Again. Not a focal point. However, it is a known fact that scum like RVS more than other states. I will say this again. I am not using this as a focal point. It is pretty much a null tell.
3. a. Congrats? This argument is pointless, cause only you and the mod know what your PM says.
b. You said in the game that you're honest.
c. You didn't need to mention it! Of course a random game is going to be a distraction! A clause at the end of it doesn't make the point of it go away!
d. That was sarcasm. Your argument is stupid because it's basically 'Meta's bad, don't use meta.' YOU'RE the one who hasn't given any reasoning here.
4. Full claim would include abilities, the actual flavor, your alignment... so no. As a matter of fact, you didn't full claim.
5. So if RVS was over when Phoenix made the case, then the game hadn't stalled. Means your argument no longer holds any water. And again you say meta's bad, yet you have yet to say why. 6. WHICH MEANS YOU MEANT TO HAVE THIS WHOLE THING BE A DISTRACTION! And it's not just my point of view! Other people have voiced how completely anti-town your claim was!
7. Ooh, I just love this line. You start off by saying you'll get to the multiple other questions, when really you should have posted them in this already, and then you end with a nice false ad hom. I haven't dropped anything of yours. Don't act like I have.
1. ...Are you calm?
2. Ok.
3. My point stands.
3d. The argument you claimed to be stupid was the one saying that if games that iPot played at MTGS are taking into account when taking actions, then games at the other site he claimed to have played should be as well. And for be, both shouldn't: this game should be confined at this game. Good players can avoid their meta. Games and mood differ from time to time. Most games I play, for instance, I do very differently on from another.
If you claimed that argument to be stupid because you thought it said 'Meta's bad, don't use meta.', then I advice you to pay more attention while reading the game.
4. I'm Thalia, Vanilla Townie. There, flavor and alignment. Do you want my extensive list of abilities as well, or is this enough to be into the "fullclaim" section?
5. RVS was over based on a completely moot argument; people's reactions to that weren't. The case itself was null. Do you really consider meta a good point? More so, a 4-year old one?
6. Nope, I didn't meant it to be a distraction: what made it a distraction was the importance some people gave to it. It wasn't back there, but now certainly is.
7. You did. You haven't answered why you said my argument was stupid, you only did in this post. Please stop trying to mudsling me.
6. I'm with you there. A great player is better than a useless cop. However since you are in fact useless to the town at this point, and not a cop, your claiming of your role is incredibly awful, and highly anti-town.
6.In your PoV maybe. In mine, I'm liking the kind of discussion my claim has generated.
6. WHICH MEANS YOU MEANT TO HAVE THIS WHOLE THING BE A DISTRACTION! And it's not just my point of view! Other people have voiced how completely anti-town your claim was!
6. Nope, I didn't meant it to be a distraction: what made it a distraction was the importance some people gave to it. It wasn't back there, but now certainly is.
"I'm liking the kind of discussion my claim has generated" is neither a direct answer to my question, nor is it a specific answer to my question, nor does it even qualify as an intention. But that's the best answer I got in your mess of posts.
Unvote Vote Kosakosa
My mistake in post #135 was thinking scumminess and ignorance had to be mutually exclusive.
My read on Phoenix somewhere between "overly aggressive scum" and "terrible gambit to end RVS early". Very little else to go on so I'm certainly not on board for lynching him this early in the day.
When Truk initially made this comment it was in regards to my earlier play. The key line here is “I'm certainly not on board for lynching him this early in the day.”
The following is my only post made before Truk posts his next post below.
I'm happy that achieved two MVP's on another site, but another site is not MTGSalvaation.
I don't like meta arguments in general because they are poor, and while I still don't know what to think of this interation, I find important to point out that this isn't
Comparison is a good tool to use. While meta could be used here I don’t find meta being the defining word here. Meta would require taking more posts than just the first of iPot’s completed games. That’s just an opinion on the matter.
I only brought up my at elsewhere because he did. Also, after looking through basic 21, you may notice that I grossly overreacted to things in that game, to the point that someone had asked that I take a day as a breather from the game.
I didn’t bother to look at the rest of your game since I was only looking for first posts and how they sounded.
The only other thing I noticed from the OP was that you replace out and joboman replaced in for you.
Is watching for reactions your primary or secondary goal here? This attack on iPot seems incredibly unfocused, probably because you're trying to make something out of nothing.
If you were just watching for reactions, drop it here, because the gambit's up. But if it wasn't a gambit, then I'm highly suspicious of you saying "I am watching for reactions," which reads like an attempt to legitimize your attack.
That's really contrived logic (and borderline WIFOM). Nothing is that black-and-white, anyway.
At the time of my posting it was more 50/50. Since others did not have the same read as me I am looking more into the reactions.
iPot’s post is not nothing. There is always a reason behind a post.
You may question the integrity of my reads all you like it doesn’t change anything. This was never intended to be a gambit and is not a gambit.
Since you believe there to be other opinions, then please state them.
Phoenix Sun Rise: Meta calls that happen 18 posts in make me nervous, why were you so determined to get out of RVS?
Please don’t put words in my mouth, sir. I was not determined to get out of RVS. I saw a post that registered as not of townie nature and replied to it.
Sorry I'm late everyone, didn't realize this had moved so fast. I have half a mind to vote Phoenix for that ridiculous attempt to attack iPot within the first twenty posts. Seems overly aggressive to me.
You were willing to barn others to place your vote on your first post of the game. Yet you call me overly aggressive.
Right now I'm incredibly on the fence about voting Phoenix, not only for the awfulness of the voting, but also for the speed of it. The fact that in the next post, Phoenix had this entire argument based off of the meta of a single post in this game seems way to sketchy. I need to see more from Phoenix though first. This seems ridiculously like overeager scum.
@Phoenix- Do you not believe that playstyles can differ from game to game?
I’ve always been an aggressive player. You just don’t know for reasons.
Of course playstyles can, and more likely, will change from game to game. That doesn’t mean that a change in playstyle should be ignored. It’s a behavioral change.
First, I am a gimmick. I don’t mind players knowing it. Don’t bother asking who I am.
Second, 20+ games varying across different sites.
I’m still seeing an issue with iPot’s first post. Even if no one else is reading iPot’s post as nervousness it’s still a behavioral difference from his normal posting.
(I hate this nesting quote BS when trying to configure a post. :mad:)
The quote below from Truk is in less than 24 hours from original post about not wanting to lynch me toDay.
As i said before, either this is a failed gambit or a weak scum tell. I'm not sold that you're scum, but it certainly feels anti-town in some way. You claim it's not a gambit and that from this one post you can tell he is likely scum.
I haven't meta'd anyone in this game, but my understanding is that you've played several games of mafia before, so i have to wonder. Why would you make this move, knowing full well everyone would see it as you jumping on nothing? Is the real point of this gambit to draw the attention all to yourself? It certainly seems to have worked, if that's your goal.
vote Phoenix Sun Rise
As seen above, Truk doesn’t supply any reasoning on why his opinion changed.
With that, Truk, please explain what changed your opinion.
Oh. My. God. Not even when it's pointed to KK that his arrogance and knee-jerk reasoning are making him look bad he would stop. MT may be being overaggressive but, boy, at this point it's basically justified. I'm quite convinced now and I almost feel bad for the scum team for having a member like him.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Good thing people are analyzing my arguments while going for my lynch huh, PSR and Mao. Alas, perceived arrogance doesn't mean bad reasoning. You can dislike this in-game persona as much as you want, but please don't let it tunnel-vision, disregarding my points.
I am now at L-3. If you really consider a good idea to lynch me before the first 200 posts, with more than two weeks left before the deadline, scum will trainwreck this into a perfect game. Wake up, people.
I am now at L-3. If you really consider a good idea to lynch me before the first 200 posts, with more than two weeks left before the deadline, scum will trainwreck this into a perfect game. Wake up, people.
Good thing people are analyzing my arguments while going for my lynch huh, PSR and Mao. Alas, perceived arrogance doesn't mean bad reasoning. You can dislike this in-game persona as much as you want, but please don't let it tunnel-vision, disregarding my points.
I am now at L-3. If you really consider a good idea to lynch me before the first 200 posts, with more than two weeks left before the deadline, scum will trainwreck this into a perfect game. Wake up, people.
Phoenix Sun Rise(2) Truk, HammerAndSickled Truk(1) The Dark Passenger KosaKosa (5) jdisawesomesauce, MzztrTetris, The Most Curious Thing, Maokun, Phoenix Sun Rise
Not voting: iPot, MirrorEntity, AllwinAprentice, Kosakosa.
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
KosaKosa, fullclaim. Summarize your abilities and your flavor.
Don't quote it word for word. Cause you'll get modkilled. I feel like you'd do that.
What could KK claim at this point that would sway your views? (I wish to hear everyone who is voting KK to answer this)As I see it if he changes his role or elaborates upon it then he will be viewed as a liar and then we lynch him because he can't be trusted. If he claims exactly as he did before then we still dont know if it's true and we lynch him. what is the point of this request of him?
What could KK claim at this point that would sway your views? (I wish to hear everyone who is voting KK to answer this)As I see it if he changes his role or elaborates upon it then he will be viewed as a liar and then we lynch him because he can't be trusted. If he claims exactly as he did before then we still dont know if it's true and we lynch him. what is the point of this request of him?
Please explain why you thought you needed to post this content.
In the mean time, I do not want KosaKosa to claim.
"Why did you claimed to be a vanilla townie? Do you know that makes more likely for scum to NK a power role? Now we will lynch you ourselves!" Go figure.
I'm Thalia, Town Vanilla. I may use this astonishing great ability called vote. I guide the cathars in Thraben, I've heard about the fuzz in nearby villages and I can feel the enemy forces lurking around my people.
There. What now, flavorgaming?
I hate meta arguments because they take out the purity of the game, which should be to find scum based on what they are doing at the current game, and nothing else. Not to mention, quoting a fellow player, that experienced Mafia players can simply dodge their own meta.
@TMCT: I did it for the reactions. Tetris's one, albeit unnecessarily over-agressive, seems honest; PSR's do not. He said to be either ok with a Truk's or my lynch, then in the next post he simply unvoted Truk and went into the rolling wagon. Where again is his detailed argument for voting me?
@TMCT: I did it for the reactions. Tetris's one, albeit unnecessarily over-agressive, seems honest; PSR's do not. He said to be either ok with a Truk's or my lynch, then in the next post he simply unvoted Truk and went into the rolling wagon. Where again is his detailed argument for voting me?
What sorts of reactions were you originally expecting? You started becoming indignant once MzztrTetris started pushing a case on you, but now you seem to be using all of our reactions for information purposes. That in itself is fine (self-wagon analysis is a great tool), but I have to wonder...was your indignation not legitimate? Was this a town gambit disguised as a scum gambit? Or were you not expecting reactions this overwhelmingly negative, but still planned on drawing information from the reactions even if they were lukewarm or positive?
@Dexter: nah, you will get quickly used to my honesty (bar insane gambits) while playing Mafia. I don't have any reasons to hide my role being Vanilla.
Oh, and please don't be distracted by my action, that's not my intention. While I'm still divided about what's happening, I will, again, heartfully ask all of you to limit the meta discussion. It is hardly a good argument.
So if you claimed vanilla for the reactions, how exactly was us being distracted not your intention? Reacting to the claim clearly distracted the majority of the town. There's a lie in here somewhere.
What could KK claim at this point that would sway your views? (I wish to hear everyone who is voting KK to answer this)As I see it if he changes his role or elaborates upon it then he will be viewed as a liar and then we lynch him because he can't be trusted. If he claims exactly as he did before then we still dont know if it's true and we lynch him. what is the point of this request of him?
Please explain why you thought you needed to post this content.
In the mean time, I do not want KosaKosa to claim.
I posted the content because I didn't understand what Tetris hoped to gain from this because it seems like he already had a solid and decided case. I wanted to figure out his intentions to better read his alignment. I furthered this thought to wondering the same of everyone. As we now have KK's fullclaim I believe from the points that have been presented he is indeed the summiest player of the day so far. Vote KK
@TMCT: I did it for the reactions. Tetris's one, albeit unnecessarily over-agressive, seems honest; PSR's do not. He said to be either ok with a Truk's or my lynch, then in the next post he simply unvoted Truk and went into the rolling wagon. Where again is his detailed argument for voting me?
What sorts of reactions were you originally expecting? You started becoming indignant once MzztrTetris started pushing a case on you, but now you seem to be using all of our reactions for information purposes. That in itself is fine (self-wagon analysis is a great tool), but I have to wonder...was your indignation not legitimate? Was this a town gambit disguised as a scum gambit? Or were you not expecting reactions this overwhelmingly negative, but still planned on drawing information from the reactions even if they were lukewarm or positive?
Any odd reactions, for example, already-said unjustified vote. While I wasn't expecting this kind of ****storm over myself (especially while playing in a jokingly and lighthearted way for most of the game), I don't mind at all being on the defensive when I know I'm innocent, given enough time to clarify my points. As long as people don't rush-lynch unnecessarily, having this kind of discussion and analyzing behavior to what is happening right now is way more interesting from a player's perspective then trying to meta-game people over to generate content.
On Tetris, I didn't like his overtone. Repeatedly calling people "whiners", "useless" and their argumentation "stupid" (this last without providing arguments as of why) is hardly encouraging. How isn't this the same arrogance that Mao perceived on me?
@Dexter: nah, you will get quickly used to my honesty (bar insane gambits) while playing Mafia. I don't have any reasons to hide my role being Vanilla.
Oh, and please don't be distracted by my action, that's not my intention. While I'm still divided about what's happening, I will, again, heartfully ask all of you to limit the meta discussion. It is hardly a good argument.
So if you claimed vanilla for the reactions, how exactly was us being distracted not your intention? Reacting to the claim clearly distracted the majority of the town. There's a lie in here somewhere.
Distracted the town and certainly caught scum's attention as well, eagering for an easy mislynch. Check out my voters: do you think all of them are showing a town mindset?
Jesus Christ. People are really going to lynch someone more than two weeks from the deadline at Day 1 without a single solid tell.
I should hammer myself, but I won't. If I flip in the next couple of hours, at least people will learn on how to not be so bloodthirsty without motive.
On the good side, at least I will have created a meta for meta-lovers to clear me out when I actually fakeclaim as scum.
Any odd reactions, for example, already-said unjustified vote. While I wasn't expecting this kind of ****storm over myself (especially while playing in a jokingly and lighthearted way for most of the game)
I'm quite new at Mafia, but even I can tell that this is an absurdly bad thing to do. We are in an environment where every.single.word you say will be over-analyzed and interpreted for hidden motives. Claiming "hey guys, you didn't have to take it so seriously" after a clear blunder is really weak and it's the kind of arguments that you have been presenting ever since and which finally convinced me of your scumminess, much more than the blunder itself (which if you remember, I dismissed as non-telling in the beginning.)
On Tetris, I didn't like his overtone. Repeatedly calling people "whiners", "useless" and their argumentation "stupid" (this last without providing arguments as of why) is hardly encouraging. How isn't this the same arrogance that Mao perceived on me?
I just want to point here that every time I've mentioned and condemned Tetris' aggressiveness because I just think that we should remain civil and polite even during a game of paranoia and murder. The main difference is that he's only being a jerk while exposing faulty reasoning and poor tactics, but that's not alignment-telling of him at all, as opposed to your increasingly desperate nonchalance at trying to downplay your own mistakes, which as of late has blown into full fearmongering.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
If it is fearmongering to point out how stupid it is to rush a lynch on Day 1 without an undeniable confirmation of scumness (such as an unmistakable slip or a confession), then I am fearmongering. And I'm still mesmerized how people can't notice this.
KosaKosa, fullclaim. Summarize your abilities and your flavor.
Don't quote it word for word. Cause you'll get modkilled. I feel like you'd do that.
What could KK claim at this point that would sway your views? (I wish to hear everyone who is voting KK to answer this)As I see it if he changes his role or elaborates upon it then he will be viewed as a liar and then we lynch him because he can't be trusted. If he claims exactly as he did before then we still dont know if it's true and we lynch him. what is the point of this request of him?
I dont like this post.
The question if answered shows what KK needs to claim to sway people. This would introduce WIFOM, did he claim that because that was a way get out of pressure? or is he telling the truth?
The fact that you ask everyone voting KK to respond doesn't sit right with me as you acknowledge how pointless the claim is.
Private Mod Note
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Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
HammerAndSickled and The Dark Passenger have been prodded.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
JD, riddle the idea of Allwin and KK as scum buddies. Tell me your thoughts.
Same for Tetris.
Town gain nothing from answering the question asked but a scum KK would.
Buddies was definately what I was thinking when I said I didn't like his post.
Regarding Tezz if you are asking if he could be a buddy of KK its a maybe. His case on KK came 2-3 hours after I laid out my suspicion, the timing of the case could be considered odd, essentially he did the quote wall legwork for me.
Then he has proceeded to bus KK hard, could be distancing if KK if they are buddies.
Also you are an Iso gimmick, am I right?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
JD, riddle the idea of Allwin and KK as scum buddies. Tell me your thoughts.
Same for Tetris.
Town gain nothing from answering the question asked but a scum KK would.
Why?
Buddies was definately what I was thinking when I said I didn't like his post.
Regarding Tezz if you are asking if he could be a buddy of KK its a maybe. His case on KK came 2-3 hours after I laid out my suspicion, the timing of the case could be considered odd, essentially he did the quote wall legwork for me.
What is odd about the timing?
Also you are an Iso gimmick, am I right?
I hope not. Iso is my mentor this game. That would have been an obscenely odd opening rush considering he knew my role information.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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You're starting to get batty, TDP. Not only are you overestimating Truk, but you're envisioning some really weird intentions behind his posts -- setting up PSR for OMGUS? Using "doc" as an example to psychologically protect himself? Ironically, I'm seeing just as much "high strung emotion" from you right now. It's the kind of posting I've seen from cornered scum before, which is weird, because you're neither cornered nor under any threat whatsoever.
My favorite part was where i made an observation, asked if it was true, and somehow thats putting words in your mouth. Answer the question please.
i'm glad I'm not the only one picking up on this. Based on the amount of stuff almost copy pasted out of phoenix's argument, its starting to feel like flailing to get a scumbuddy out of the fire.
What part of asking you these questions is defaming you? This is the part that I'm not seeing. Yes, you questioned the wierd RVS-meta stuff out of Phoenix, but you also said
Do you understand why I was unclear on your feelings about question 1? Other than that, you hadn't explicitly answered the questions that I was asking. I wanted yes or no answers to those questions, so that defames you how?
I placed one vote during RVS. I placed one vote after RVS, on a player that was acting scummy, and was my biggest scum read. Please define "throwing around my vote".
My use of doc was related to the fact that this is a basic. After reading through a handful of basics, there is a distinct pattern of Town PRs including Cop and Doc. I don't really know what that does to "keep the town from breathing down my neck."
I am referring here to "Policy Lynch". I never wanted to policy lynch anyone, that's simply Phoenix's misenterpretation. I asked if you were completely caught up on the thread because I addressed this claim by him only a few posts previous, in a post you didn't quote or acknowledge in any way.
I would appreciate you quoting exactly which subtle wording is making you uncomfortable.
Yes. Clearly what happened is BEFORE he had said anything about me, or made any comments in my direction, I knew he would think me scum and make a weak arguement and vote me soon, so made a vote on him first.
/s
@Phoenix
I voted you to
a) let everyone know who I think may be scum
b) put pressure on a scummy player
c) if neccesary, push you into L-2 claim range
So all three of those are anti-town?
I'm not the one who's claiming it should be black and white. You and TDP have repeatedly stated that, despite my suspicions, I should not vote you if I don't know for certain you are scum and having you lynched is the most pro-town lynch of the day.
My opinion on Phoenix hasn't changed once since the post I voted. I believe there is a good chance of him being scum, but I am not sold on the idea yet. This is why I asked if TDP had read my posts yet. Phoenix and TDP don't seem to be getting this, and I'm not sure how to put it so that you stop incorrectly stating that I believed he was "not scum" at post 62. I have repeated this stance across several pages now.
Heavy Scum Lean
Truk: Ugh, I had decided not to give much weight to the mass claim proposal but his posts ever since have not been great as others have exposed more eloquently. I particularly don't like how he treats so lightly his vote for Phoenix -even when he's admittedly far from convinced- under the pretext that he's not in immediate danger. He could simply have raised a FoS rather than what for all purposes seems like an attempt to start a wagon on him. Speaking of FoS, here's mine.
Leaning Scum
Kosakosa: Facepalm at the claim (which seems fake), SMH at his (her if the claim is true) following posts which seem like he trying to act nonchalant after a bad slip. Could just be noob, but more likely noob scum than town, I'd say.
50-50%
Phoenix Sun Rise: Some of his actions at the beginning seemed scummy but his posts have been great ever since, seems quite clever and aware. If scum, a great danger, if town, a great asset.
The Dark Passenger: Pretty similar to PSR in my eyes. Hasn't made a scummy move, but his overzealousness in attacking Truk (as justified as I believe it to be) made me raise my eyebrows a bit. Coming just a bit too hard and self-sure for me to give him a town lean, though if Truk flips scum at some point, I'd be willing to overlook this.
iPot: In spite of lots of post I don't get much out of him. Has spent a lot of time first defending himself from an (admittedly overzealous) attack and then reading too much from said attack. Could go either way.
Leaning Town
MirrorEntity: Concise, solid posts that aim to clarify confusion and let people explain themselves. Helpful to town.
MzztrTetris: Same as above, except that hast posted less if perhaps more substantially. Seems to have a good knowledge of mafia and knows what is of help to town.
Heavy Town Lean
The Most Curious Thing: Great posts overall, just solid townie behaviour. I do feel that he might be tunneling a bit too hard on Phoenix for not enough of a reason.
Null Reads
jdisawesomesauce: Hasn't post much.
Allwinapprentice: Cautious posting for sure. Not enough information to make up my mind but seems leaning town to me.
HammerAndSickled: Hasn't post much. Seems just noobie.
Truk vs PSR.
Both sides of this debate keep misresprenting points, I dont think either side has raised a solid point against each other.
PSR has his aggressive stab against iPot leaning against him and Truk has the mass claim possible as a sore point but these are relatively weak points, ultimately I think we have a case of town vs town here.
To me currently the most suspicious person is KK. He takes the opportunity to drop in a claim while mass claims was being discussed, despite the consensus leaning toward not claiming.
Most of his posts this game have been RVS or related to his prematured claim, I see very little pro-town behaviour in any of the posts.
vote KK
Am I the only one that sees this as an inadvertent vanilla breadcrumb? I'm starting to get a town read on Truk through no doing of his own.
#Kosakosa
The second paragraph of post #118 is probably the most anti-town thing anyone has said this game, but I can't determine whether it's coming from scumminess or ignorance.
How much mafia have you played, KK?
@Maokun
If you have such a strong group of reads, why aren't you using your vote right now?
Sorry, I didn't mean it to look as though my reads are super certain. They're simply there to expose my thoughts on the current state of the game since I wasn't able to post for a couple of days, but not even my reads on you or Trusk are 100% certain, not even 70%, I'd say. I also believe that the tool of FoS is underused and that casually voting for someone on a light suspicion of scumminess to provoke a reaction has equal chances of starting a wagon that'd crash into a mislynch, which is precisely one of my complaints about Trusk. Town shouldn't be this eager to place a vote with little reason, is my belief, specially this early in the game.
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MzztrTetris made a lot of good points about KK (if perhaps a bit unnecessarily harshly.) I look forward to KK's answer to TMCT's question.
Please point out what KK has said in his posts that had given you a newb town read on him.
Also, the case you provided against me is crap. "I believe there is a good chance of him being scum, but I am not sold on the idea yet" That is not a case against someone. That is your gut telling you that I am scum.
A case would provide examples of how my language/beavhior/tone has changed and/or any slips I may have had if I were scum.
Look at the PBPZ that Tezz justs provided on KK. That is how a case should look.
Thank you for the PBPA, Tezz. It's the reason why I asked KK for his reads.
Kk's claim and the reasoning behind it reminded me of a player in the first game i ever played who did something similar. It was his first game as well and he didn't understand why it was an antitown move. I guess I equated the two in my head.
Truk, elaborate on how these two statements mean the same thing.
Both posts contain the "Not Sold" comment, but in the latter of the two you added the comment "I believe there is a good chance of him being" which tells me that you found more evidence to support your claim, but as of your last reasoning I see that nothing has changed.
You're not doing anything to push a case against me and you're not scum hunting either. You're currently acting like newb scum would. Defending yourself from accusations without providing further content or scum hunting.
So you think it's ok to point out other games as a meta argument, but only games from this site? What's your logic in here?
How can people that haven't yet posted in the game be more useful than a player that did? What's your logic in here?²
Also, are you saying that liking RVS is a scum tell? If so, I'm scum for life, because I love it.
1: You will eat those words with righteousness when/if I flip.
2: That was me as a player, not necessarily in this game.
3: I didn't want to distract people from whatever their interations were at the moment. What's about it?
4: Yes, I don't like meta, you will get used to it. I think it's a poor player's sign and a desperate resort to find something. That said, you will never see me resorting to meta. If I somehow do, please point it out to me and slap me in the face.
I don't care softclaiming as long as people don't stick to that as an end to all means. "No, he's claimed Thalia but I'm sure he's Griselbrand derp" that's stupid. I'd rather stick to people's arguments than meta or flavor. Plus, I didn't softclaim. I fullyclaimed.
First: the vote made on post #18 had to be meta-validated as an argument. When people need meta to proceed instead of analyzing behavior, the game is far from being fluid.
Second: sorry, but I don't need a power role in order to be effective. As a firm believer that the best player is the one that can use the most out of his brain, I would anytime rather have a proz0rd vanilla in my team than a noob doc or vig.
@TMCT: About my experience, the only online games I've ever played are the four ongoing ones that I'm into.
Your recent posts have had an ugly combination of ignorance and arrogance. I want a direct, specific answer to this:
What was your intention?
I'm interested in this also.
Also KK hasnt provided any reads so far this game, despite being asked.
Every post in a mafia game is useful, especially when compared to nonexistent content. Why so overaggressive?
Yea, I bet liking RVS makes me scum as you tried to infer
1. I claim something that I know to be right. You say I'm not being honest. I beg to differ.
2. I did not. I said in Mafia, not in this game.
3. Because it was a concern expressed by TDP. I wanted to clarify it.
4. I said it twice and you quoted both times, are you even paying attention? The first time you called my argument stupid and when I asked why, you didn't answered. I'm asking again: why was that argument stupid?
Yes, I did fullclaim. Also, you are distorting my point. I'm saying that resorting to the flavor to take action is dumb. I claimed because I have nothing to hide.
No, the RVS was over the moment PSR used meta to validate his vote on iPot. And he broke RVS with the worst possible argument: meta, partly based on a game from years ago.
In your PoV maybe. In mine, I'm liking the kind of discussion my claim has generated.
Sure thing, but please keep answering mine as well. Make sure to include the parts you skipped back there.
No read on Truk's claim proposal, but this post caught my attention:
Bolded is my emphasis.
I didn't like that fence-sit. He's not jumping at my wagon at the moment, but that gives a free pass, in the future, for him to jump on it without arguments and say "Look there! I've expressed suspicion of him before!".
Also, you said you had a noob town read on me, but maybe Tetris is right. So where is that "I want to hear more from him about it" part, especially if, in your opinion, I was town before Tetris' argument?
On the rest, for me it's still to early to have good reads.
1. ...Are you calm?
2. Ok.
3. My point stands.
3d. The argument you claimed to be stupid was the one saying that if games that iPot played at MTGS are taking into account when taking actions, then games at the other site he claimed to have played should be as well. And for be, both shouldn't: this game should be confined at this game. Good players can avoid their meta. Games and mood differ from time to time. Most games I play, for instance, I do very differently on from another.
If you claimed that argument to be stupid because you thought it said 'Meta's bad, don't use meta.', then I advice you to pay more attention while reading the game.
4. I'm Thalia, Vanilla Townie. There, flavor and alignment. Do you want my extensive list of abilities as well, or is this enough to be into the "fullclaim" section?
5. RVS was over based on a completely moot argument; people's reactions to that weren't. The case itself was null. Do you really consider meta a good point? More so, a 4-year old one?
6. Nope, I didn't meant it to be a distraction: what made it a distraction was the importance some people gave to it. It wasn't back there, but now certainly is.
7. You did. You haven't answered why you said my argument was stupid, you only did in this post. Please stop trying to mudsling me.
"I'm liking the kind of discussion my claim has generated" is neither a direct answer to my question, nor is it a specific answer to my question, nor does it even qualify as an intention. But that's the best answer I got in your mess of posts.
Unvote
Vote Kosakosa
My mistake in post #135 was thinking scumminess and ignorance had to be mutually exclusive.
When Truk initially made this comment it was in regards to my earlier play. The key line here is “I'm certainly not on board for lynching him this early in the day.”
The following is my only post made before Truk posts his next post below.
Vote Kosakosa
I am now at L-3. If you really consider a good idea to lynch me before the first 200 posts, with more than two weeks left before the deadline, scum will trainwreck this into a perfect game. Wake up, people.
Fearmongering, +scum. Yeah this is a no-brainer.
Unvote: Truk
Vote: KosaKosa
Phoenix Sun Rise (2) Truk, HammerAndSickled
Truk (1) The Dark Passenger
KosaKosa (5) jdisawesomesauce, MzztrTetris, The Most Curious Thing, Maokun, Phoenix Sun Rise
Not voting: iPot, MirrorEntity, AllwinAprentice, Kosakosa.
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
What could KK claim at this point that would sway your views? (I wish to hear everyone who is voting KK to answer this)As I see it if he changes his role or elaborates upon it then he will be viewed as a liar and then we lynch him because he can't be trusted. If he claims exactly as he did before then we still dont know if it's true and we lynch him. what is the point of this request of him?
Why? My vote on KK has nothing to do with that; I think MzztrTetris is the only one hung up on that. It's a comparatively minor point.
Your efforts are better spent elsewhere. You've done next to nothing this game.
Please explain why you thought you needed to post this content.
In the mean time, I do not want KosaKosa to claim.
I'm Thalia, Town Vanilla. I may use this astonishing great ability called vote. I guide the cathars in Thraben, I've heard about the fuzz in nearby villages and I can feel the enemy forces lurking around my people.
There. What now, flavorgaming?
I hate meta arguments because they take out the purity of the game, which should be to find scum based on what they are doing at the current game, and nothing else. Not to mention, quoting a fellow player, that experienced Mafia players can simply dodge their own meta.
@TMCT: I did it for the reactions. Tetris's one, albeit unnecessarily over-agressive, seems honest; PSR's do not. He said to be either ok with a Truk's or my lynch, then in the next post he simply unvoted Truk and went into the rolling wagon. Where again is his detailed argument for voting me?
What sorts of reactions were you originally expecting? You started becoming indignant once MzztrTetris started pushing a case on you, but now you seem to be using all of our reactions for information purposes. That in itself is fine (self-wagon analysis is a great tool), but I have to wonder...was your indignation not legitimate? Was this a town gambit disguised as a scum gambit? Or were you not expecting reactions this overwhelmingly negative, but still planned on drawing information from the reactions even if they were lukewarm or positive?
So if you claimed vanilla for the reactions, how exactly was us being distracted not your intention? Reacting to the claim clearly distracted the majority of the town. There's a lie in here somewhere.
I posted the content because I didn't understand what Tetris hoped to gain from this because it seems like he already had a solid and decided case. I wanted to figure out his intentions to better read his alignment. I furthered this thought to wondering the same of everyone. As we now have KK's fullclaim I believe from the points that have been presented he is indeed the summiest player of the day so far.
Vote KK
Any odd reactions, for example, already-said unjustified vote. While I wasn't expecting this kind of ****storm over myself (especially while playing in a jokingly and lighthearted way for most of the game), I don't mind at all being on the defensive when I know I'm innocent, given enough time to clarify my points. As long as people don't rush-lynch unnecessarily, having this kind of discussion and analyzing behavior to what is happening right now is way more interesting from a player's perspective then trying to meta-game people over to generate content.
On Tetris, I didn't like his overtone. Repeatedly calling people "whiners", "useless" and their argumentation "stupid" (this last without providing arguments as of why) is hardly encouraging. How isn't this the same arrogance that Mao perceived on me?
Distracted the town and certainly caught scum's attention as well, eagering for an easy mislynch. Check out my voters: do you think all of them are showing a town mindset?
I should hammer myself, but I won't. If I flip in the next couple of hours, at least people will learn on how to not be so bloodthirsty without motive.
On the good side, at least I will have created a meta for meta-lovers to clear me out when I actually fakeclaim as scum.
I'm quite new at Mafia, but even I can tell that this is an absurdly bad thing to do. We are in an environment where every.single.word you say will be over-analyzed and interpreted for hidden motives. Claiming "hey guys, you didn't have to take it so seriously" after a clear blunder is really weak and it's the kind of arguments that you have been presenting ever since and which finally convinced me of your scumminess, much more than the blunder itself (which if you remember, I dismissed as non-telling in the beginning.)
I just want to point here that every time I've mentioned and condemned Tetris' aggressiveness because I just think that we should remain civil and polite even during a game of paranoia and murder. The main difference is that he's only being a jerk while exposing faulty reasoning and poor tactics, but that's not alignment-telling of him at all, as opposed to your increasingly desperate nonchalance at trying to downplay your own mistakes, which as of late has blown into full fearmongering.
I dont like this post.
The question if answered shows what KK needs to claim to sway people. This would introduce WIFOM, did he claim that because that was a way get out of pressure? or is he telling the truth?
The fact that you ask everyone voting KK to respond doesn't sit right with me as you acknowledge how pointless the claim is.
Same for Tetris.
Could you prod HammerAndSickled? It's been 96+ hours since his last post. It's also been 72+ hours since The Dark Passenger last posted.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Town gain nothing from answering the question asked but a scum KK would.
Buddies was definately what I was thinking when I said I didn't like his post.
Regarding Tezz if you are asking if he could be a buddy of KK its a maybe. His case on KK came 2-3 hours after I laid out my suspicion, the timing of the case could be considered odd, essentially he did the quote wall legwork for me.
Then he has proceeded to bus KK hard, could be distancing if KK if they are buddies.
Also you are an Iso gimmick, am I right?
Why?
What is odd about the timing?
I hope not. Iso is my mentor this game. That would have been an obscenely odd opening rush considering he knew my role information.