The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I'm not really happy about the lack of activity in this game. Stagnation is really bad for town.
Who would be interested in a small mass flavor claim? Not enough to give the scum info on who to target, but enough to lock them down so they can't change flavor depending on what role they want to false-claim.
The theme of this game is an MTG set/storyline, so I'm making the assumption that each player's flavor is that of a named character in the books.
I propose the following 2 pieces of information:
1) Yes or No, does your have a legendary or planeswalker card named after it?
2) Name 1 color of the card.
I would vote against the claim. A mass claim suggestion on day one of any kind makes me a bit suspicious of you. I understand you are trying to get some conversation started but from the questions you asked it could be possible to figure out who the PR's are. Also I believe I understand why you want to know colors but would you mind stating your reasons first? And finally I find it interesting that you felt the need to plug that no conversation is bad for town, why are you trying to look so pro-town before asking everyone to just share thier roles on day one?
@Truk
That sounds pointless.
...and that sounds like fishing.
+scum
Is it pointless for scum to have this info, or would it be valuable for scum to have this info? You seem uncertain on this. I am quite unsure of how "yes, white" or "No" could indicate to the scum team which players are power roles and which ones aren't. There are several characters in the Innistrad books that did not receive cards, and there are several choices of legends/PW for each color.
I am aware of WHY your immediate reaction to this idea would be "he's scum and fishing for info", but what I don't know is how this info could be specifically helpful to the scum team.
I would vote against the claim. A mass claim suggestion on day one of any kind makes me a bit suspicious of you.
That's fair.
I understand you are trying to get some conversation started but from the questions you asked it could be possible to figure out who the PR's are.
I am actually quite curious on this. If I told you 3 players answers were "yes, Black", "Yes, White" and "No", who is most likely to be the power role?
Also I believe I understand why you want to know colors but would you mind stating your reasons first?
I said 1 color, exactly. I worded it this way specifically so that
1) scum with the intention of changing their claim are locked into the selection they made. If someone claimed "yes, Blue", then turned around and claimed to be Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Town Doctor, they could be outed immediately.
2) town with a unique 2-colored legend ie Sigarda, Host of Herons would not be immediately outed.
And finally I find it interesting that you felt the need to plug that no conversation is bad for town, why are you trying to look so pro-town before asking everyone to just share thier roles on day one?
The reason that I mentioned this in the post is the exact same reason that I suggest the claim in the first place. 5 posts in the thread yesterday, 3 players are currently (hopefully) receiving prods for inactivity. I still have an RVS vote against me from 3 days ago. In the past few days I've done some reading of the MTG:S Mafia Forum, and in a significant portion of the "Scum Win" games, the path to victory is simply "Stay quiet".
Additionally, I never asked anyone to share their roles. I asked for two very specific, flavor-related pieces of information that would be quite hard to tie to any specific PR.
The theme of this game is an MTG set/storyline, so I'm making the assumption that each player's flavor is that of a named character in the books.
Why are you making that assumption? That's why your massclaim idea is dangerous and not at all beneficial to the town at best. And it's also why it's breakable by scum simply answering "no" -- so worst case, you give more information to the mafia than to the town.
The theme of this game is an MTG set/storyline, so I'm making the assumption that each player's flavor is that of a named character in the books.
Why are you making that assumption?
Well, the game is flavored on the world of Innistrad. It's pretty common for all players to have flavor/names related to the subject, yes? I don't believe I am making a big leap with that assumption.
it's breakable by scum simply answering "no"
Then the scumteam have to come up with alternate names outside of the cards when it comes time to claim. Just as there are a finite number of Legendary/PW in the block, there are a finite number of characters in a book.
so worst case, you give more information to the mafia than to the town.
There is certainly truth to that. In any case, nobody is on board so I'll consider the idea tabled.
Well, the game is flavored on the world of Innistrad. It's pretty common for all players to have flavor/names related to the subject, yes? I don't believe I am making a big leap with that assumption.
The second is reasonable, but the first is the one that's relevant to your massclaim idea -- and that one is a big leap.
Even if your first assumption is right, you're proposing a mass soft flavor claim on Day 1. Why would scum need to follow that assumption in this circumstance?
The second is reasonable, but the first is the one that's relevant to your massclaim idea -- and that one is a big leap.
Where ELSE would the names come from. Innistrad cards, Innistrad books. That's all that makes sense to me? Are you implying they would take names only from cards?
Even if your first assumption is right, you're proposing a mass soft flavor claim on Day 1. Why would scum need to follow that assumption in this circumstance?
wait wat
I am not a clever man. Can you explain what you are asking here?
I'm also raising an eyebrow to Truk's behaviour here. While this game hasn't been the most active ever, it's far from stagnated (for a 12 player game) and I really fail to see the point of a mass claim this early when there are barely any leads to follow and all players are alive. Having said that, I'm not strongly opposed to the idea, I'm just wonder about the necessity of it.
I'm not going as far to accuse Truk of fishing because what he's asking for is really vague. However, I have to wonder if this eagerness and impatience are just an attempt to slip in our collective subconscious the idea that he's town, which well, is not a scum tell per-se but an indication that he's clever (and must be watched closely.)
Truk, I see you have only 11 posts in this website. Are you a gimmick as well? Would you mind telling us your level of experience with mafia?
Not ready to jump on Phoenix's bandwagon yet, either. While his behaviour was initially suspicious, his answers have been good and I look forward to see how his accusers respond to them.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
A softclaim is idiotic. There is seriously no benefit to the town, it only benefits the scum here.
What benefit would a softclaim provide to the scum?
Better guesses for the nightkills based on flavor gaming.
Counter question though- what benefits does it have for us?
We could possibly find scum if they claim a scummy race, although the chances of scum doing that seem really low.
(Oh, hi, MzztrTetris. I just noticed you didn't comment on Truk's proposal in your last post.)
A couple other thoughts:
1. Starcraft was a Normal; this is a Basic. If a softclaim had any relevance in a game of that complexity, it has much less here.
2. The proposed softclaim in Starcraft was simpler, potentially more usable for the town (based on what was known at that point in the game), and probably less usable for the mafia.
I never said that iPot as the lynch for the toDay.
I'm having difficulty reconciling these statements. You can argue your way out of that with semantics, but there's a passive-aggressiveness there that's just plain anti-town. Why would you not want to lynch iPot if he's likely scum?
Vote Phoenix Sun Rise
Just because I believe someone to be scum does not mean that player is the lynch for the Day. There is still plenty to discuss before a lynch is decided. For you to believe that the first person voted for outside of RVS would be the lynch is ludicrous.
In all the games I have played I don’t ever recall the first non-RVS vote on a player to be the deciding factor for a lynch.
As i said before, either this is a failed gambit or a weak scum tell. I'm not sold that you're scum, but it certainly feels anti-town in some way. You claim it's not a gambit and that from this one post you can tell he is likely scum.
I haven't meta'd anyone in this game, but my understanding is that you've played several games of mafia before, so i have to wonder. Why would you make this move, knowing full well everyone would see it as you jumping on nothing? Is the real point of this gambit to draw the attention all to yourself? It certainly seems to have worked, if that's your goal.
vote Phoenix Sun Rise
Not certain I am scum, but yet you still vote for me.
In other words, you’re pushing a Policy Lynch on me for being anti-town on Day 1. Yeah, that doesn’t fly around here.
Please don’t put words in my mouth, sir. I was not determined to get out of RVS. I saw a post that registered as not of townie nature and replied to it.
Well then what would you call it, because 18 posts in, and according to you ipot is likely scum and the RVS is over.
Now you're back tracking, and telling me to not put words in your mouth, when your wording and phrasing has already been inconsistent.. So, because of that, I now pose you this question;
What about ipots post, aside from a meta call, made you think he is likely scum? And, if he is likely scum, and you are so sure, why wouldn't you advocate him for the lynch today?
It’s not so much meta, but the nervousness of this post. I only supplied the two other posts to show that iPot’s behavior was different from his other beginning posts.
I'm also going to vote Phoenix Sun Rise. While I can sort of see the point of being "aggressive" just to get the game moving along, your talk of "playstyle" just serves to undermine your point. No reasonable town would go about aggressively scumhunting someone to the point of meta-ing them from years ago this early in the thread.
See the above response for a response to your own.
EWP:
KosaKosa
In the future, please do not start claiming until there is a majority vote in favor.
Just because I believe someone to be scum does not mean that player is the lynch for the Day. There is still plenty to discuss before a lynch is decided. For you to believe that the first person voted for outside of RVS would be the lynch is ludicrous.
In all the games I have played I don’t ever recall the first non-RVS vote on a player to be the deciding factor for a lynch.
I now wonder why you would take this avenue...
You're putting words in my mouth and I'm not even sure where you're getting them from. Why would I think that iPot is going to be the lynch Today just because you voted for him?
I may be twisting your words a bit too, though, so let me ask you more directly:
1. Do you think iPot is scum?
2. Do you want to lynch him Today?
3. Do you think Truk is scum?
4. Do you want to lynch him Today?
Just because I believe someone to be scum does not mean that player is the lynch for the Day. There is still plenty to discuss before a lynch is decided. For you to believe that the first person voted for outside of RVS would be the lynch is ludicrous.
In all the games I have played I don’t ever recall the first non-RVS vote on a player to be the deciding factor for a lynch.
I now wonder why you would take this avenue...
You're putting words in my mouth and I'm not even sure where you're getting them from. Why would I think that iPot is going to be the lynch Today just because you voted for him?
I may be twisting your words a bit too, though, so let me ask you more directly:
1. Do you think iPot is scum?
2. Do you want to lynch him Today?
3. Do you think Truk is scum?
4. Do you want to lynch him Today?
I'm not sure how I twisted your words with my answer. Just because I view someone as scum does not mean that player will be lynched. The meaning that statement holds is that I find iPot to be scummy. It takes seven players to lynch someone not one player. The town also wasn't seeing iPot's post the same way I did meaning that iPot was not going to be lynched.
1: Yes
2: At the time of my post yes, but my eyes have turned to someone else. iPot is still scummy though.
3: My vote would not be on him if I thought him to be town.
4: More so than iPot.
I'm not sure how I twisted your words with my answer. Just because I view someone as scum does not mean that player will be lynched. The meaning that statement holds is that I find iPot to be scummy. It takes seven players to lynch someone not one player. The town also wasn't seeing iPot's post the same way I did meaning that iPot was not going to be lynched.
I...don't disagree with any of that. Seriously, I have no idea where I said or suggested anything to the contrary.
I never said that iPot as the lynch for the toDay.
I'm having difficulty reconciling these statements. You can argue your way out of that with semantics, but there's a passive-aggressiveness there that's just plain anti-town. Why would you not want to lynch iPot if he's likely scum?
Vote Phoenix Sun Rise
Please explain what you are meaning in this post. Because the answer I just gave you fits the parameters of what you stating here.
How this reads to me is this: "You find iPot to be scummy, but don't want to lynch him. Vote: PSR".
The statements I made have nothing to do with being anti-town or scum or town. The statements I made have to do with how a Mafia game functions.
Please explain what you are meaning in this post. Because the answer I just gave you fits the parameters of what you stating here.
How this reads to me is this: "You find iPot to be scummy, but don't want to lynch him. Vote: PSR".
Let me rephrase that. It's more like "You find iPot to be scummy, but don't want him to be the lynch for the Day. Vote: PSR."
Between your response to MirrorEntity in that post and your response to iPot in post #26 (when you said "I am watching for reactions, but"), it feels like you were trying to back off from your attack on iPot without actually dropping your case on him. Hence me saying "passive-aggressive." Heck, you're not even voting for him anymore -- why would you rather lynch Truk than iPot Today? (I don't think switching your vote is in itself scummy, but it makes me doubt the sincerity of your case on iPot.)
Please explain what you are meaning in this post. Because the answer I just gave you fits the parameters of what you stating here.
How this reads to me is this: "You find iPot to be scummy, but don't want to lynch him. Vote: PSR".
Let me rephrase that. It's more like "You find iPot to be scummy, but don't want him to be the lynch for the Day. Vote: PSR."
Between your response to MirrorEntity in that post and your response to iPot in post #26 (when you said "I am watching for reactions, but"), it feels like you were trying to back off from your attack on iPot without actually dropping your case on him. Hence me saying "passive-aggressive." Heck, you're not even voting for him anymore -- why would you rather lynch Truk than iPot Today? (I don't think switching your vote is in itself scummy, but it makes me doubt the sincerity of your case on iPot.)
I had no intention to back off of iPot. I wouldn’t even call it an attack. It was more following up on what I found to be suspicious behavior.
The following post is the reason I am voting for Truk:
As i said before, either this is a failed gambit or a weak scum tell. I'm not sold that you're scum, but it certainly feels anti-town in some way. You claim it's not a gambit and that from this one post you can tell he is likely scum.
I haven't meta'd anyone in this game, but my understanding is that you've played several games of mafia before, so i have to wonder. Why would you make this move, knowing full well everyone would see it as you jumping on nothing? Is the real point of this gambit to draw the attention all to yourself? It certainly seems to have worked, if that's your goal.
vote Phoenix Sun Rise
Truk showed the sign of a scum mindset by posting that he does not view me as scum, but yet pushed for my lynch anyway. Basically a Policy Lynch on Day 1 without saying the words. A townie would not push for a Policu Lynch on Day 1. A townie would rather focus on finding scum on Day 1.
Truk is acting like I have been anti-town for the entire game.
Truk, I see you have only 11 posts in this website. Are you a gimmick as well? Would you mind telling us your level of experience with mafia?
I've played (i think) 3 games of mafia before, probably 3 or 4 years since the last one. All has been on different sites. I have lurked mtg:s forums before but never created an account.
Not certain I am scum, but yet you still vote for me.
if you weren't at L-6, I might have had a harder time voting you.
In other words, you’re pushing a Policy Lynch on me for being anti-town on Day 1. Yeah, that doesn’t fly around here.
i'd rather have one dead townie than one that is actively distracting us from scum hunting, potentially causing multiple mislynches. Don't you think that, of the two, that's the better call? Nevertheless, i have no desire to have you lynched, at least not this early in the day.
do you believe that votes have zero power aside from causing lynches?
Unvote
Vote Truk
All aboard the OMGUSmobile.
1. Do you think iPot is scum?
3. Do you think Truk is scum?
1: Yes
3: My vote would not be on him if I thought him to be town.
Wow. I do wish I had your ability to simply trust my gut. "He sounds nervous, HE'S THE SCUM! Someone voted me? HE'S ANOTHER ONE!"
if you weren't at L-6, I might have had a harder time voting you.
You are trying to make your vote sound legit with sarcasm. Think about this logically for a second. You claim to believe that I am not scum, but yet would rather Policy Lynch then hunt scum.
Quote from PSR »
In other words, you’re pushing a Policy Lynch on me for being anti-town on Day 1. Yeah, that doesn’t fly around here.
i'd rather have one dead townie than one that is actively distracting us from scum hunting, potentially causing multiple mislynches. Don't you think that, of the two, that's the better call?
Nevertheless, i have no desire to have you lynched, at least not this early in the day.
do you believe that votes have zero power aside from causing lynches?
I don’t see how I am distracting from the town. I am the most active player here scum hunting more than most players here. Just read the game and see that every player is commenting on what is taking place and noticing the reactions. That is far from distracting the town. It’s rather influencing the town to take a more active approach to the game. The better call would be finding scum rather than barning others to jump onto a bad wagon.
No desire to see me lynched yet you are voting for me… Please make sense of that.
Votes are a powerful tool when used correctly. When used incorrectly they become a hazard to the town. You are using vote to show that you favor a Policy Lynch on me for being a “distraction” from the town and for being "anti-town."
OMGUS requires that I vote you without reason. I gave my reasoning on why I voted for you. Please read the Mafia Rules/Guildlines for a better understanding with your terminology.
Quote from TCMT »
1. Do you think iPot is scum?
3. Do you think Truk is scum?
Quote from PSR »
1: Yes
3: My vote would not be on him if I thought him to be town.
@PSR
What do you think of Truk's mass claim suggestion? Because if it didn't factor into your read/vote on him, then the vote does look like thinly-veiled OMGUS to me.
Since I'm relatively new to Mafia in general (I've read plenty of theory, but this is my first game) what advantage does the Mafia get from a mass claim like Truk suggested?
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
Since I'm relatively new to Mafia in general (I've read plenty of theory, but this is my first game) what advantage does the Mafia get from a mass claim like Truk suggested?
The more the Mafia Team knows the more it will hurt the town. There are also other factors such as what Day # it is and the ratio of Town to Mafia.
To answer TCMT's question, I am against a mass claim and almost always will be on Day 1.
TCMT
It's no where near OMGUS. Truk is not voting me becasue he believes me to be scum. He is voting for me being anti-town. That is a scum mindset and the reason I am voting Truk.
You are trying to make your vote sound legit with sarcasm. Think about this logically for a second. You claim to believe that I am not scum, but yet would rather Policy Lynch then hunt scum.
Let me rephrase. It wasn't a hammer vote. It didn't put you to L-2. Therefore I am significantly more liberal with the vote.
I would like you to stop misrepresenting what I said in the post you are attacking me for. I never said "I believe you are not scum", I said "I'm not sold that you're scum". In case that's not clear, what that means is "I have reason to believe you are scum, but it's not confirmed in my mind". FWIW, you are #1 on my scum-list at the moment, but it's still too early in the Day for me to want you lynched. There simply isn't enough information yet.
I am, at this stage of the game, unable to "Confirm Scum" on any players. You've managed to do it twice in less than 100 posts.
I don’t see how I am distracting from the town. I am the most active player here scum hunting more than most players here.
I think our disagreement on this subject stems from your belief that iPot's opening post "confirms" him as scum. Whereas in my opinion, at the end of the game, even if he does flip scum, I will refuse to accept that the post was a scumtell of any format. I don't see what you are seeing. Focusing on something that is (IMO) not relevant to active scumhunting is distracting.
Just read the game and see that every player is commenting on what is taking place and noticing the reactions.
Was there someone other than you who believed that your "nervousness" argument was valid? I didn't see it, but I might be blind.
No desire to see me lynched yet you are voting for me… Please make sense of that.
Once again, with the votes how they are, I don't feel there is any risk of you being lynched before I want the Day to end. If you were significantly closer to being lynched, I would certainly consider unvoting to allow more discussion.
Do note that I said yet. With the way this Day is progressing, I am currently of the mindset that you would be the best Day 1 lynch. This is not because of "policy", this is because in my opinion you are the most likely one to flip scum at this point. This is quite obviously subject to change.
OMGUS requires that I vote you without reason. I gave my reasoning on why I voted for you.
It's a pretty weak reason, although I'll give you it's a more valid reason than RVS nervousness. Your OMGUS post contains misrepresentation, an incorrect paraphrase, and (what I assume to be) misunderstanding of my post. I voted for you for what was IMO either a failed gambit or a weak scummy attack. You voted me because, and I'll quote the post here, "Not certain I am scum, but yet you still vote for me." A retribution vote, whether veiled by poor argument or not, is by definition OMGUS.
Ad hom with an overreaction.
Ad hom is an argument made personally against an opponent, instead of against the opponent's argument. The statement by me is focusing specifically onyour arguments and your play, your decision making in deciding who you think is confirmed scum. I've not attacked your character, so I don't know how this is ad hom. Clarify please?
Truk is acting like I have been anti-town for the entire game.
Yes I am, as I believe your play has been anti-town for the entire game so far. A no-content vote, a really weak attack on someone for "confirming scum" with thier intro RVS post, and an OMGUS vote on me. None of those things is benefiting the town.
A question for you Phoenix;
In any game of mafia you have ever played, have you ever placed a vote on someone you were not 100% convinced was scum? Outside of RVS, of course.
So thats two cases of people that PSR has "confirmed as scum" are being attacked with misrepresentation. Keeping in mind that he apparently pegged me as scum within a single post during RVS, and it looks like he jumped off it whenever it had no chance of gaining steam.
Personally, I hate when the person who attacked me ends up being scummy, because I'm never really sure if I actually think they are scummy, or if its lingering from the fact that I know I'm not scum and they used the weakest of reasoning to pick me out.
In this case, I'm leaning towards the "actually thinking he's scummy" line more than the other. His posts are too "detail oriented" for my tastes, and his use of "ad hom" twice now as a defense when there was none(at least the second time, its possible I had done it though can't recall off the top of my head) makes it look like he's trying to find the easy way out of arguments.
I'm not sure how many votes are on him, otherwise I'd vote him now.
@iPot - Unless someone voted since the votecount, he should have 3 votes against him. If you want to vote him, it should be safe, but I'd appreciate anyone else holding off until everyone has had a chance to read through the posts between myself, Curious and Phoenix. I'd prefer not putting him to L-2 without more viewpoints on what I'm picking up from him.
Specifically, I would like to hear opinions from JDisawesomesauce, MzztrTetris and Kosakosa. These players have the least posts in the game, and of the posts they do have, almost all of it is contentless plainsight lurking.
Phoenix Sun Rise(3) The Most Curious Thing, Truk, HammerAndSickled Truk(1) Phoenix Sun Rise
Not voting: jdisawesomesauce, iPot, Maokun, MirrorEntity, MzztrTetris, The Dark Passenger, AllwinAprentice, Kosakosa.
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I'd prefer not putting him to L-2 without more viewpoints on what I'm picking up from him.
Why not? Claim range sounds good when there's only one player this scummy on Day 1.
Agreed that some of the player base needs to post more, though.
#Kosakosa
I'm looking at Kosakosa's claim as a null tell for now. I don't have the experience to be able to read it any other way. Though he's got to post more on things that actually matter.
It’s not so much meta, but the nervousness of this post. I only supplied the two other posts to show that iPot’s behavior was different from his other beginning posts.
Fair enough, it would seem that ipots nervousness bothered you, and your aggressiveness to his nervousness bothered me.
Slight meta, but more behavioral analysis.
I saw it the other way around honestly, you went for what I'm seeing now as more of a knee jerk reaction to a meta change.
if you weren't at L-6, I might have had a harder time voting you.
"Might?"
Vote: Truk
No, I don't support a mass claim. I searched Gatherer for any/all "Legendary" cards in innistrad last night. There were 15. However, this is no guarantee that any of that flavor, whether from the game or the books, is even relevant to which side is which.
I would also like to point out that colors like black are likely to be viewed as the scummy characters, Blue as potential manipulative power roles, and so on. It's dangerous to the town, and advocating giving any type of information to the scum team is the main reason why I'm voting for you.
Yes, this game is based on the flavor of Innistrad, and any reasonable townie wouldn't want to reveal sensitive information.
And I agree with Phoenix, his aggressiveness does not warrant a policy lynch, especially on day one, and at the time, under 100 posts.
Also, IMGEOY: Kosakosa revealing a role like that, before everyone even responds to the mass claim question is insane, and I can't be sure if you're just new at this, or are trying to distract us from Truk.
I will be keeping a close eye on your interactions.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
:symch::symu::symb:"“There is only one god and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: “Not today.” :symb::symu::symch:
And I agree with Phoenix, his aggressiveness does not warrant a policy lynch, especially on day one, and at the time, under 100 posts.
I'm not voting PSR to policy lynch her, I'm voting PSR because I have a scum read on her. And that has more to do with her responses to all of us than her initial aggressiveness.
if you weren't at L-6, I might have had a harder time voting you.
"Might?"
From post 97: "Let me rephrase. It wasn't a hammer vote. It didn't put you to L-2. Therefore I am significantly more liberal with the vote."
Do you believe it unreasonable that I voted for someone whom I believe to be scummy, but do not want lynched? Especially when they are at L-6.
No, I don't support a mass claim.
You are in the significant majority.
I searched Gatherer for any/all "Legendary" cards in innistrad last night. There were 15. However, this is no guarantee that any of that flavor ... is even relevant to which side is which.
If the flavor is not relevant, the scum gains literally nothing. If the flavor is relevant, especially for the power roles, I would expect them to do exactly as everyone is doing and decline the claim. For example, if I was Avacyn, Town Doc, I would never agree to go along with this claim.
I would also like to point out that colors like black are likely to be viewed as the scummy characters, Blue as potential manipulative power roles, and so on.
That's a fair statement. As much as black, blue and red are not by nature evil, there are significantly more black villains than heroes, with the inverse true for white. Still, I see no reason why Liliana of the Veil or Grimgrin, Corpse-Born couldn't be 1-shot vigs, or why any of the planeswalkers couldn't be townie.
And I agree with Phoenix, his aggressiveness does not warrant a policy lynch, especially on day one, and at the time, under 100 posts.
How much of the last page have you read so far? I am not advocating a lynch on policy. I am voting for the player who is acting scummiest.
Questions for you TDP, and also to anyone who hasn't made their thoughts on this known:
1) Do you believe iPot's first post has the potential to be a scumtell?
2) Do you believe iPot is scum?
3) Do you believe my post #62 is a scumtell? Specifically that post in a vacuum.
4) Do you believe I am scum?
1) Do you believe iPot's first post has the potential to be a scumtell?
2) Do you believe iPot is scum?
3) Do you believe my post #62 is a scumtell? Specifically that post in a vacuum.
4) Do you believe I am scum?
1. Yes, but not by itself (and not by digging up his years-old RVS meta).
2. His last post left a bad taste in my mouth, but I still have a null read on him.
3. No.
4. I have a conflicting read on you.
If the flavor is relevant, especially for the power roles, I would expect them to do exactly as everyone is doing and decline the claim. For example, if I was Avacyn, Town Doc, I would never agree to go along with this claim.
@Dexter: nah, you will get quickly used to my honesty (bar insane gambits) while playing Mafia. I don't have any reasons to hide my role being Vanilla.
Oh, and please don't be distracted by my action, that's not my intention. While I'm still divided about what's happening, I will, again, heartfully ask all of you to limit the meta discussion. It is hardly a good argument.
Already answered No. 2. Both are poor argumentation. Although, I gotta concede, less-experienced players might fall into meta-tells, I consider the sheer fact of using it to be a lack of argument. "God, this game is going nowhere. I think I will check some other games to have an insight..." while the plays should be confined to THIS game.
About claiming, no, I see no problem. If scum avoid NK'ing me because I lack a power role, good for us. The best power roles we can possible have are fully funcional brains.
About claiming, no, I see no problem. If scum avoid NK'ing me because I lack a power role, good for us. The best power roles we can possible have are fully funcional brains.
I'm back home now and just skim read the game. I intended to post more while I was away but the phone app for MTGS sucks.
Anyway I've had a quick skim read and will have a more thorough read through after I have unpacked and etc.
Thoughts from skim read.
Anti Mass claim of any form day 1. The suggestion makes me dislike Truk.
KK's claim is either anti-town or scum, he has narrowed down the possible targets for PR's if he is telling the truth (antitown) or is scum running a gambit.
I'm also not finding myself liking Phoenix any better from the skim read.
More after I give the game a reread.
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Anti Mass claim of any form day 1. The suggestion makes me dislike Truk.
Agree. I don't know if I would say its enough to be scummy, but its definitely not the best plan when there is no real need for it at the moment.
KK's claim is either anti-town or scum, he has narrowed down the possible targets for PR's if he is telling the truth (antitown) or is scum running a gambit.
My initial thought was town trying to disguise a power role, especially if he is really Thalia. That's kind of a role I would normally assign a power to, but I'm not the mod so thats kind of a moot point I guess.
Anyway, with the two options you suggest plus mine, that gives a 2 out of 3 chance of town alignment(telling the truth, lying in hopes of not getting night killed with a power, and scum trying to provide a role that would most likely be in the game and counter-claimable.)
This is a thought though. Do the mods here provide scum players with a list of safe-claims?(As in "this is a role not in the game, if you need to claim it") Its something I've seen done in the past several times, but I don't know if its a "thing" that gets used here ever. If so, then I would be more inclined to believe that KK is potential scum.
Do you believe it unreasonable that I voted for someone whom I believe to be scummy, but do not want lynched? Especially when they are at L-6.
A townies strongest ability is their vote. So yes, throwing around your vote, in my opinion, is harmful to the town because it distracts us from active scum hunting. AND it makes it damn near impossible to what is OMGUS without layer of that awful red tape known as semantics.
It's an awfully accurate and effective scum tactic if used properly, especially when it can be used to turn active scum hunting and questions into deflection under the guise of "He's just OMGUS voting me"
It's because of this reason right here that I voted for you.
You are in the significant majority.
You sound disappointed.
If the flavor is not relevant, the scum gains literally nothing. If the flavor is relevant, especially for the power roles, I would expect them to do exactly as everyone is doing and decline the claim. For example, if I was Avacyn, Town Doc, I would never agree to go along with this claim.
Subtle use of the Doc role noted.
That's a fair statement. As much as black, blue and red are not by nature evil, there are significantly more black villains than heroes, with the inverse true for white. Still, I see no reason why Liliana of the Veil or Grimgrin, Corpse-Born couldn't be 1-shot vigs, or why any of the planeswalkers couldn't be townie.
I'd like to first note that you seem to have put more thought into what cards could be what roles, included with meta gaming, flavor gaming is also a major no-no for me.
I can see your point, but I find it more likely that people will associate the colors with their respective personalities.
How much of the last page have you read so far?
Noting the subtle attempt at discredit. Let me make myself more clear, no, you have no said that you advocate a policy lynch. But your interactions with Phoenix have been filled with very very subtle wording, wording that makes me uncomfortable. And throwing around an essential townie ability like it means nothing is extremely anti-town.
I am not advocating a lynch on policy. I am voting for the player who is acting scummiest.
According to you. Noting here the twist of logic, and attempt to subtly defame me, I think YOU are acting the scummiest, not Phoenix. And I am voting for you as well. The fact that your pointing this out is futile. we all know you think Phoenix is scum, as your vote is clearly placed still.
Yet you still feel the need to say so.
Questions for you TDP, and also to anyone who hasn't made their thoughts on this known:
1) Do you believe iPot's first post has the potential to be a scumtell?
2) Do you believe iPot is scum?
3) Do you believe my post #62 is a scumtell? Specifically that post in a vacuum.
4) Do you believe I am scum?
1) No, and the fact that I'm repeating this, after I got on Phoenix case over that very post, just solidifies to me that you're scum.
2) I believe everyone here is scum until they flip otherwise
3) You're not sold, yet sold enough to vote? YES, I found that scummy as hell, and why I'm making such a detailed post here.
4)How much more do you need? seriously, the fact that you're asking me questions that you could clearly get the answer to by reading the thread is just an even bigger scum read for me. Yes, I think you are scum, and I think that you are merely trying to keep me moving in circles to distract active scum hunting.
I dont have time to get into a full reply right now, but TDP, you and phoenix seem to be sharing the opinion that
1) a vote means "I am 100% convinced you are scum"
2) a vote should never be cast unless you want that person to be the lynch for the day.
Do you believe those statements are true?
I don't really understand how asking those 4 yes or no questions is, in your opinion, scummy. I would like more insight into your reasoning behind how a scum player would benefit from me asking you those questions, specifically 1 and 4.
The question about how much you have read was not a mudsling. I was asking because you are using a term brought up by phoenix to describe incorrectly the play I am making. I believe there is a good chance he is scum. I am in no way convinced anyone is scum yet. Does that mean i should abstain from using my only tool to help me gain more information? I am not "throwing it around like it's nothing". I am putting my vote to use where i believe it will help reveal the most information.
What subtle wording are you speaking about when you reference my earlier posts? Being vague doesn't do your reasoning justice. If you truly believe i am scum, you should welcome the opening to discuss my plays with the town, as it will help you to convince others to vote for me.
You never explicitly said you are 100% on me being scum, so i asked flat out. Running in circles means what exactly.
In regards to the KK claim, its very, very unlikely he claimed vanilla to cover up a power role.
I dont have time to get into a full reply right now, but TDP, you and phoenix seem to be sharing the opinion that
1) a vote means "I am 100% convinced you are scum"
2) a vote should never be cast unless you want that person to be the lynch for the day.
Do you believe those statements are true?
If it were that black and white, then yes I would.
Of course a vote can be used for means other than lynching, but that doesn't come from a town mindset. Townies are going to be focused on finding and lynching scum. Not using their vote as they please.
So, Truk, you should really sum up the case you have against me since your opinion is changing.
I dont have time to get into a full reply right now, but TDP, you and phoenix seem to be sharing the opinion that
1) a vote means "I am 100% convinced you are scum"
2) a vote should never be cast unless you want that person to be the lynch for the day.
Do you believe those statements are true?
Oh look, words have appeared in my mouth, what convoluted wizardry put them there?
I don't really understand how asking those 4 yes or no questions is, in your opinion, scummy. I would like more insight into your reasoning behind how a scum player would benefit from me asking you those questions, specifically 1 and 4.
You misunderstand me, it is not the fact that you have asked questions that is scummy, its the fact that you ask the same ones in an attempt to defame me. I attacked Phoenix for making a meta call against ipot 18 posts in. Ipots post was not scummy, I could see where others saw that so I asked Ipot some questions, and I was satisfied with his answers.
Yet that whole interaction seems to be lost to you, and yet I'M the one who you ask is reading the thread.
The question about how much you have read was not a mudsling.
Really? because that's a hell of a lead in to your post.
I was asking because you are using a term brought up by phoenix to describe incorrectly the play I am making. I believe there is a good chance he is scum. I am in no way convinced anyone is scum yet. Does that mean i should abstain from using my only tool to help me gain more information? I am not "throwing it around like it's nothing". I am putting my vote to use where i believe it will help reveal the most information.
Oh? So then educate this newb, what is the "proper" term. Because what I saw was you setting Phoenix up so that if he voted you, you could call OMGUS.
And yes, throwing your vote around provokes high strung emotions, which is bad for the town, it makes it difficult to keep focus and even more so to get an accurate read on who you think is scum or not.
Your opinion on phoenix is so erratic, and so far your phrasing and behavior has been only to try and trap me and phoenix into black and white answers.
Kind of like that failed soft claim proposal you gave. another way to try and lock the town down.
I'd make a joke about only scum deal in absolutes, but that would be tacky.
What subtle wording are you speaking about when you reference my earlier posts? Being vague doesn't do your reasoning justice. If you truly believe i am scum, you should welcome the opening to discuss my plays with the town, as it will help you to convince others to vote for me.
You never explicitly said you are 100% on me being scum, so i asked flat out. Running in circles means what exactly.
I think your use of the doc as an example to describe potential PR's was an allusion to keep the town from breathing down your neck.
Your wording of how YOU are voting for who is the scummiest. It's subtle, backwards logic that preys on the subconscious and hints at the fact that I'm the one who is not scum hunting, but you are.
In regards to the KK claim, its very, very unlikely he claimed vanilla to cover up a power role.
for someone who can't even keep your opinion on Phoenix straight, you seem very sure of yourself.
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Phoenix Sun Rise (3) The Most Curious Thing, Truk, HammerAndSickled
Truk (1) Kosakosa
iPot (1) Phoenix Sun Rise
Not voting: jdisawesomesauce, iPot, Maokun, MirrorEntity, MzztrTetris, The Dark Passenger, AllwinAprentice.
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Who would be interested in a small mass flavor claim? Not enough to give the scum info on who to target, but enough to lock them down so they can't change flavor depending on what role they want to false-claim.
The theme of this game is an MTG set/storyline, so I'm making the assumption that each player's flavor is that of a named character in the books.
I propose the following 2 pieces of information:
1) Yes or No, does your have a legendary or planeswalker card named after it?
2) Name 1 color of the card.
Let me know what you guys think
Currently I'm waiting on Phoenix to respond.
That sounds pointless.
...and that sounds like fishing.
+scum
She already said she is.
I would vote against the claim. A mass claim suggestion on day one of any kind makes me a bit suspicious of you. I understand you are trying to get some conversation started but from the questions you asked it could be possible to figure out who the PR's are. Also I believe I understand why you want to know colors but would you mind stating your reasons first? And finally I find it interesting that you felt the need to plug that no conversation is bad for town, why are you trying to look so pro-town before asking everyone to just share thier roles on day one?
Is it pointless for scum to have this info, or would it be valuable for scum to have this info? You seem uncertain on this. I am quite unsure of how "yes, white" or "No" could indicate to the scum team which players are power roles and which ones aren't. There are several characters in the Innistrad books that did not receive cards, and there are several choices of legends/PW for each color.
I am aware of WHY your immediate reaction to this idea would be "he's scum and fishing for info", but what I don't know is how this info could be specifically helpful to the scum team.
That's fair.
I am actually quite curious on this. If I told you 3 players answers were "yes, Black", "Yes, White" and "No", who is most likely to be the power role?
I said 1 color, exactly. I worded it this way specifically so that
1) scum with the intention of changing their claim are locked into the selection they made. If someone claimed "yes, Blue", then turned around and claimed to be Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Town Doctor, they could be outed immediately.
2) town with a unique 2-colored legend ie Sigarda, Host of Herons would not be immediately outed.
The reason that I mentioned this in the post is the exact same reason that I suggest the claim in the first place. 5 posts in the thread yesterday, 3 players are currently (hopefully) receiving prods for inactivity. I still have an RVS vote against me from 3 days ago. In the past few days I've done some reading of the MTG:S Mafia Forum, and in a significant portion of the "Scum Win" games, the path to victory is simply "Stay quiet".
Additionally, I never asked anyone to share their roles. I asked for two very specific, flavor-related pieces of information that would be quite hard to tie to any specific PR.
Why are you making that assumption? That's why your massclaim idea is dangerous and not at all beneficial to the town at best. And it's also why it's breakable by scum simply answering "no" -- so worst case, you give more information to the mafia than to the town.
I would appreciate that.
Well, the game is flavored on the world of Innistrad. It's pretty common for all players to have flavor/names related to the subject, yes? I don't believe I am making a big leap with that assumption.
Then the scumteam have to come up with alternate names outside of the cards when it comes time to claim. Just as there are a finite number of Legendary/PW in the block, there are a finite number of characters in a book.
There is certainly truth to that. In any case, nobody is on board so I'll consider the idea tabled.
To this:
The second is reasonable, but the first is the one that's relevant to your massclaim idea -- and that one is a big leap.
Even if your first assumption is right, you're proposing a mass soft flavor claim on Day 1. Why would scum need to follow that assumption in this circumstance?
Where ELSE would the names come from. Innistrad cards, Innistrad books. That's all that makes sense to me? Are you implying they would take names only from cards?
wait wat
I am not a clever man. Can you explain what you are asking here?
I'm not going as far to accuse Truk of fishing because what he's asking for is really vague. However, I have to wonder if this eagerness and impatience are just an attempt to slip in our collective subconscious the idea that he's town, which well, is not a scum tell per-se but an indication that he's clever (and must be watched closely.)
Truk, I see you have only 11 posts in this website. Are you a gimmick as well? Would you mind telling us your level of experience with mafia?
Not ready to jump on Phoenix's bandwagon yet, either. While his behaviour was initially suspicious, his answers have been good and I look forward to see how his accusers respond to them.
I'm Thalia, and while I would love to have First Strike and make noncreature spells cost more, I'm a Vanilla Townie. Meh.
My vote was purely RVS, so Unvote
(Oh, hi, MzztrTetris. I just noticed you didn't comment on Truk's proposal in your last post.)
A couple other thoughts:
1. Starcraft was a Normal; this is a Basic. If a softclaim had any relevance in a game of that complexity, it has much less here.
2. The proposed softclaim in Starcraft was simpler, potentially more usable for the town (based on what was known at that point in the game), and probably less usable for the mafia.
That would be a fun scum gambit to run.
Just because I believe someone to be scum does not mean that player is the lynch for the Day. There is still plenty to discuss before a lynch is decided. For you to believe that the first person voted for outside of RVS would be the lynch is ludicrous.
In all the games I have played I don’t ever recall the first non-RVS vote on a player to be the deciding factor for a lynch.
I now wonder why you would take this avenue...
Not certain I am scum, but yet you still vote for me.
In other words, you’re pushing a Policy Lynch on me for being anti-town on Day 1. Yeah, that doesn’t fly around here.
Unvote
Vote Truk
It’s not so much meta, but the nervousness of this post. I only supplied the two other posts to show that iPot’s behavior was different from his other beginning posts.
Slight meta, but more behavioral analysis.
See the above response for a response to your own.
EWP:
KosaKosa
In the future, please do not start claiming until there is a majority vote in favor.
You're putting words in my mouth and I'm not even sure where you're getting them from. Why would I think that iPot is going to be the lynch Today just because you voted for him?
I may be twisting your words a bit too, though, so let me ask you more directly:
1. Do you think iPot is scum?
2. Do you want to lynch him Today?
3. Do you think Truk is scum?
4. Do you want to lynch him Today?
I'm not sure how I twisted your words with my answer. Just because I view someone as scum does not mean that player will be lynched. The meaning that statement holds is that I find iPot to be scummy. It takes seven players to lynch someone not one player. The town also wasn't seeing iPot's post the same way I did meaning that iPot was not going to be lynched.
1: Yes
2: At the time of my post yes, but my eyes have turned to someone else. iPot is still scummy though.
3: My vote would not be on him if I thought him to be town.
4: More so than iPot.
I...don't disagree with any of that. Seriously, I have no idea where I said or suggested anything to the contrary.
Please explain what you are meaning in this post. Because the answer I just gave you fits the parameters of what you stating here.
How this reads to me is this: "You find iPot to be scummy, but don't want to lynch him. Vote: PSR".
The statements I made have nothing to do with being anti-town or scum or town. The statements I made have to do with how a Mafia game functions.
(Everyone may call me PSR for short)
Let me rephrase that. It's more like "You find iPot to be scummy, but don't want him to be the lynch for the Day. Vote: PSR."
Between your response to MirrorEntity in that post and your response to iPot in post #26 (when you said "I am watching for reactions, but"), it feels like you were trying to back off from your attack on iPot without actually dropping your case on him. Hence me saying "passive-aggressive." Heck, you're not even voting for him anymore -- why would you rather lynch Truk than iPot Today? (I don't think switching your vote is in itself scummy, but it makes me doubt the sincerity of your case on iPot.)
I had no intention to back off of iPot. I wouldn’t even call it an attack. It was more following up on what I found to be suspicious behavior.
The following post is the reason I am voting for Truk:
Truk showed the sign of a scum mindset by posting that he does not view me as scum, but yet pushed for my lynch anyway. Basically a Policy Lynch on Day 1 without saying the words. A townie would not push for a Policu Lynch on Day 1. A townie would rather focus on finding scum on Day 1.
Truk is acting like I have been anti-town for the entire game.
I've played (i think) 3 games of mafia before, probably 3 or 4 years since the last one. All has been on different sites. I have lurked mtg:s forums before but never created an account.
if you weren't at L-6, I might have had a harder time voting you.
i'd rather have one dead townie than one that is actively distracting us from scum hunting, potentially causing multiple mislynches. Don't you think that, of the two, that's the better call? Nevertheless, i have no desire to have you lynched, at least not this early in the day.
do you believe that votes have zero power aside from causing lynches?
All aboard the OMGUSmobile.
Wow. I do wish I had your ability to simply trust my gut. "He sounds nervous, HE'S THE SCUM! Someone voted me? HE'S ANOTHER ONE!"
You are trying to make your vote sound legit with sarcasm. Think about this logically for a second. You claim to believe that I am not scum, but yet would rather Policy Lynch then hunt scum.
I don’t see how I am distracting from the town. I am the most active player here scum hunting more than most players here. Just read the game and see that every player is commenting on what is taking place and noticing the reactions. That is far from distracting the town. It’s rather influencing the town to take a more active approach to the game. The better call would be finding scum rather than barning others to jump onto a bad wagon.
No desire to see me lynched yet you are voting for me… Please make sense of that.
Votes are a powerful tool when used correctly. When used incorrectly they become a hazard to the town. You are using vote to show that you favor a Policy Lynch on me for being a “distraction” from the town and for being "anti-town."
OMGUS requires that I vote you without reason. I gave my reasoning on why I voted for you. Please read the Mafia Rules/Guildlines for a better understanding with your terminology.
Ad hom with an overreaction.
What do you think of Truk's mass claim suggestion? Because if it didn't factor into your read/vote on him, then the vote does look like thinly-veiled OMGUS to me.
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
The more the Mafia Team knows the more it will hurt the town. There are also other factors such as what Day # it is and the ratio of Town to Mafia.
To answer TCMT's question, I am against a mass claim and almost always will be on Day 1.
TCMT
It's no where near OMGUS. Truk is not voting me becasue he believes me to be scum. He is voting for me being anti-town. That is a scum mindset and the reason I am voting Truk.
OMGUS requires that no reason be given.
Let me rephrase. It wasn't a hammer vote. It didn't put you to L-2. Therefore I am significantly more liberal with the vote.
I would like you to stop misrepresenting what I said in the post you are attacking me for. I never said "I believe you are not scum", I said "I'm not sold that you're scum". In case that's not clear, what that means is "I have reason to believe you are scum, but it's not confirmed in my mind". FWIW, you are #1 on my scum-list at the moment, but it's still too early in the Day for me to want you lynched. There simply isn't enough information yet.
I am, at this stage of the game, unable to "Confirm Scum" on any players. You've managed to do it twice in less than 100 posts.
I think our disagreement on this subject stems from your belief that iPot's opening post "confirms" him as scum. Whereas in my opinion, at the end of the game, even if he does flip scum, I will refuse to accept that the post was a scumtell of any format. I don't see what you are seeing. Focusing on something that is (IMO) not relevant to active scumhunting is distracting.
Was there someone other than you who believed that your "nervousness" argument was valid? I didn't see it, but I might be blind.
Once again, with the votes how they are, I don't feel there is any risk of you being lynched before I want the Day to end. If you were significantly closer to being lynched, I would certainly consider unvoting to allow more discussion.
Do note that I said yet. With the way this Day is progressing, I am currently of the mindset that you would be the best Day 1 lynch. This is not because of "policy", this is because in my opinion you are the most likely one to flip scum at this point. This is quite obviously subject to change.
It's a pretty weak reason, although I'll give you it's a more valid reason than RVS nervousness. Your OMGUS post contains misrepresentation, an incorrect paraphrase, and (what I assume to be) misunderstanding of my post. I voted for you for what was IMO either a failed gambit or a weak scummy attack. You voted me because, and I'll quote the post here, "Not certain I am scum, but yet you still vote for me." A retribution vote, whether veiled by poor argument or not, is by definition OMGUS.
Ad hom is an argument made personally against an opponent, instead of against the opponent's argument. The statement by me is focusing specifically onyour arguments and your play, your decision making in deciding who you think is confirmed scum. I've not attacked your character, so I don't know how this is ad hom. Clarify please?
Yes I am, as I believe your play has been anti-town for the entire game so far. A no-content vote, a really weak attack on someone for "confirming scum" with thier intro RVS post, and an OMGUS vote on me. None of those things is benefiting the town.
A question for you Phoenix;
In any game of mafia you have ever played, have you ever placed a vote on someone you were not 100% convinced was scum? Outside of RVS, of course.
that wasn't what I was going for...
Personally, I hate when the person who attacked me ends up being scummy, because I'm never really sure if I actually think they are scummy, or if its lingering from the fact that I know I'm not scum and they used the weakest of reasoning to pick me out.
In this case, I'm leaning towards the "actually thinking he's scummy" line more than the other. His posts are too "detail oriented" for my tastes, and his use of "ad hom" twice now as a defense when there was none(at least the second time, its possible I had done it though can't recall off the top of my head) makes it look like he's trying to find the easy way out of arguments.
I'm not sure how many votes are on him, otherwise I'd vote him now.
Specifically, I would like to hear opinions from JDisawesomesauce, MzztrTetris and Kosakosa. These players have the least posts in the game, and of the posts they do have, almost all of it is contentless plainsight lurking.
Phoenix Sun Rise (3) The Most Curious Thing, Truk, HammerAndSickled
Truk (1) Phoenix Sun Rise
Not voting: jdisawesomesauce, iPot, Maokun, MirrorEntity, MzztrTetris, The Dark Passenger, AllwinAprentice, Kosakosa.
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Why not? Claim range sounds good when there's only one player this scummy on Day 1.
Agreed that some of the player base needs to post more, though.
#Kosakosa
I'm looking at Kosakosa's claim as a null tell for now. I don't have the experience to be able to read it any other way. Though he's got to post more on things that actually matter.
Just until we've gotten some input from the silent players. I'd prefer to get comments from everyone before and after.
Fair enough, it would seem that ipots nervousness bothered you, and your aggressiveness to his nervousness bothered me.
I saw it the other way around honestly, you went for what I'm seeing now as more of a knee jerk reaction to a meta change.
"Might?"
Vote: Truk
No, I don't support a mass claim. I searched Gatherer for any/all "Legendary" cards in innistrad last night. There were 15. However, this is no guarantee that any of that flavor, whether from the game or the books, is even relevant to which side is which.
I would also like to point out that colors like black are likely to be viewed as the scummy characters, Blue as potential manipulative power roles, and so on. It's dangerous to the town, and advocating giving any type of information to the scum team is the main reason why I'm voting for you.
Yes, this game is based on the flavor of Innistrad, and any reasonable townie wouldn't want to reveal sensitive information.
And I agree with Phoenix, his aggressiveness does not warrant a policy lynch, especially on day one, and at the time, under 100 posts.
Also, IMGEOY: Kosakosa revealing a role like that, before everyone even responds to the mass claim question is insane, and I can't be sure if you're just new at this, or are trying to distract us from Truk.
I will be keeping a close eye on your interactions.
I'm not voting PSR to policy lynch her, I'm voting PSR because I have a scum read on her. And that has more to do with her responses to all of us than her initial aggressiveness.
Hm, I want to see that explained too. Didn't pick up on the that the first time I read it.
From post 97: "Let me rephrase. It wasn't a hammer vote. It didn't put you to L-2. Therefore I am significantly more liberal with the vote."
Do you believe it unreasonable that I voted for someone whom I believe to be scummy, but do not want lynched? Especially when they are at L-6.
You are in the significant majority.
If the flavor is not relevant, the scum gains literally nothing. If the flavor is relevant, especially for the power roles, I would expect them to do exactly as everyone is doing and decline the claim. For example, if I was Avacyn, Town Doc, I would never agree to go along with this claim.
That's a fair statement. As much as black, blue and red are not by nature evil, there are significantly more black villains than heroes, with the inverse true for white. Still, I see no reason why Liliana of the Veil or Grimgrin, Corpse-Born couldn't be 1-shot vigs, or why any of the planeswalkers couldn't be townie.
How much of the last page have you read so far? I am not advocating a lynch on policy. I am voting for the player who is acting scummiest.
Questions for you TDP, and also to anyone who hasn't made their thoughts on this known:
1) Do you believe iPot's first post has the potential to be a scumtell?
2) Do you believe iPot is scum?
3) Do you believe my post #62 is a scumtell? Specifically that post in a vacuum.
4) Do you believe I am scum?
1. Yes, but not by itself (and not by digging up his years-old RVS meta).
2. His last post left a bad taste in my mouth, but I still have a null read on him.
3. No.
4. I have a conflicting read on you.
Oh, of course not. It took me aback to see that I was inadvertently quoting you from Starcraft and I wanted to hear your thoughts on this game.
Oh, and please don't be distracted by my action, that's not my intention. While I'm still divided about what's happening, I will, again, heartfully ask all of you to limit the meta discussion. It is hardly a good argument.
About claiming, no, I see no problem. If scum avoid NK'ing me because I lack a power role, good for us. The best power roles we can possible have are fully funcional brains.
That's...extremely anti-town.
Anyway I've had a quick skim read and will have a more thorough read through after I have unpacked and etc.
Thoughts from skim read.
Anti Mass claim of any form day 1. The suggestion makes me dislike Truk.
KK's claim is either anti-town or scum, he has narrowed down the possible targets for PR's if he is telling the truth (antitown) or is scum running a gambit.
I'm also not finding myself liking Phoenix any better from the skim read.
More after I give the game a reread.
Agree. I don't know if I would say its enough to be scummy, but its definitely not the best plan when there is no real need for it at the moment.
My initial thought was town trying to disguise a power role, especially if he is really Thalia. That's kind of a role I would normally assign a power to, but I'm not the mod so thats kind of a moot point I guess.
Anyway, with the two options you suggest plus mine, that gives a 2 out of 3 chance of town alignment(telling the truth, lying in hopes of not getting night killed with a power, and scum trying to provide a role that would most likely be in the game and counter-claimable.)
This is a thought though. Do the mods here provide scum players with a list of safe-claims?(As in "this is a role not in the game, if you need to claim it") Its something I've seen done in the past several times, but I don't know if its a "thing" that gets used here ever. If so, then I would be more inclined to believe that KK is potential scum.
A townies strongest ability is their vote. So yes, throwing around your vote, in my opinion, is harmful to the town because it distracts us from active scum hunting. AND it makes it damn near impossible to what is OMGUS without layer of that awful red tape known as semantics.
It's an awfully accurate and effective scum tactic if used properly, especially when it can be used to turn active scum hunting and questions into deflection under the guise of "He's just OMGUS voting me"
It's because of this reason right here that I voted for you.
You sound disappointed.
Subtle use of the Doc role noted.
I'd like to first note that you seem to have put more thought into what cards could be what roles, included with meta gaming, flavor gaming is also a major no-no for me.
I can see your point, but I find it more likely that people will associate the colors with their respective personalities.
Noting the subtle attempt at discredit. Let me make myself more clear, no, you have no said that you advocate a policy lynch. But your interactions with Phoenix have been filled with very very subtle wording, wording that makes me uncomfortable. And throwing around an essential townie ability like it means nothing is extremely anti-town.
According to you. Noting here the twist of logic, and attempt to subtly defame me, I think YOU are acting the scummiest, not Phoenix. And I am voting for you as well. The fact that your pointing this out is futile. we all know you think Phoenix is scum, as your vote is clearly placed still.
Yet you still feel the need to say so.
1) No, and the fact that I'm repeating this, after I got on Phoenix case over that very post, just solidifies to me that you're scum.
2) I believe everyone here is scum until they flip otherwise
3) You're not sold, yet sold enough to vote? YES, I found that scummy as hell, and why I'm making such a detailed post here.
4)How much more do you need? seriously, the fact that you're asking me questions that you could clearly get the answer to by reading the thread is just an even bigger scum read for me. Yes, I think you are scum, and I think that you are merely trying to keep me moving in circles to distract active scum hunting.
If you believe Dexter and his Dark Passenger are the same thing, it's time to read the books and not watch the show.
Please call me TPD to avoid confusion.
1) a vote means "I am 100% convinced you are scum"
2) a vote should never be cast unless you want that person to be the lynch for the day.
Do you believe those statements are true?
I don't really understand how asking those 4 yes or no questions is, in your opinion, scummy. I would like more insight into your reasoning behind how a scum player would benefit from me asking you those questions, specifically 1 and 4.
The question about how much you have read was not a mudsling. I was asking because you are using a term brought up by phoenix to describe incorrectly the play I am making. I believe there is a good chance he is scum. I am in no way convinced anyone is scum yet. Does that mean i should abstain from using my only tool to help me gain more information? I am not "throwing it around like it's nothing". I am putting my vote to use where i believe it will help reveal the most information.
What subtle wording are you speaking about when you reference my earlier posts? Being vague doesn't do your reasoning justice. If you truly believe i am scum, you should welcome the opening to discuss my plays with the town, as it will help you to convince others to vote for me.
You never explicitly said you are 100% on me being scum, so i asked flat out. Running in circles means what exactly.
In regards to the KK claim, its very, very unlikely he claimed vanilla to cover up a power role.
If it were that black and white, then yes I would.
Of course a vote can be used for means other than lynching, but that doesn't come from a town mindset. Townies are going to be focused on finding and lynching scum. Not using their vote as they please.
So, Truk, you should really sum up the case you have against me since your opinion is changing.
This was your initial opinion here:
In your last post you claimed "there is a good chance".
Oh look, words have appeared in my mouth, what convoluted wizardry put them there?
You misunderstand me, it is not the fact that you have asked questions that is scummy, its the fact that you ask the same ones in an attempt to defame me. I attacked Phoenix for making a meta call against ipot 18 posts in. Ipots post was not scummy, I could see where others saw that so I asked Ipot some questions, and I was satisfied with his answers.
Yet that whole interaction seems to be lost to you, and yet I'M the one who you ask is reading the thread.
Really? because that's a hell of a lead in to your post.
Oh? So then educate this newb, what is the "proper" term. Because what I saw was you setting Phoenix up so that if he voted you, you could call OMGUS.
And yes, throwing your vote around provokes high strung emotions, which is bad for the town, it makes it difficult to keep focus and even more so to get an accurate read on who you think is scum or not.
Your opinion on phoenix is so erratic, and so far your phrasing and behavior has been only to try and trap me and phoenix into black and white answers.
Kind of like that failed soft claim proposal you gave. another way to try and lock the town down.
I'd make a joke about only scum deal in absolutes, but that would be tacky.
I think your use of the doc as an example to describe potential PR's was an allusion to keep the town from breathing down your neck.
Your wording of how YOU are voting for who is the scummiest. It's subtle, backwards logic that preys on the subconscious and hints at the fact that I'm the one who is not scum hunting, but you are.
for someone who can't even keep your opinion on Phoenix straight, you seem very sure of yourself.